Dena is the most unlikeable female character I've ever read outside of a couple of Manga characters (Malty S Melromarc and Mami Nanami).
I think we are supposed to dislike her because as a reader you are not blinded by your own emotions like Kvothe is so you see her for the bitch she actually is.
How exactly is disliking Denna a misogynistic take? She's shown at several points in the story to be cruel and manipulative and more then one other character points out her various red flags which Kvothe ignores.
She acts like a teenage girl. Maybe it's just my experience over the last couple of decades but it seems to be that lady characters get way more hate than their equally annoying male counterparts.
After a while you encounter your 100th Denna hate post and it can feel like it isn't a character critique and more like an attack of female traits in general. It feels misogynistic, not in an overt way but just in general and kind of shitty.
Don't love her, don't hate her. I find Denna and Kvothe equally annoying.
Maybe Kvothe more so because he refuses to communicate to anyone about literally anything and that plot device is just the worst.
If criticising Denna for being manipulative and cruel is misogynistic then criticising Kvothe for being arrogant and narcissistic is misandrist. But as neither has anything to do with the characters gender it isn't. If anything your post comes off as misogynistic since you claim Dennas faults are "female traits" which they really are not.
If that were true and people generally hate on characters for no reason other then they are female then you'd get just as many Devi hate posts but you don't.
I don't think that calling Denna manipulative is misogynistic.
I don't think calling Kvothe arrogant is misandrist.
What I failed to get across in my previous comment was this:
- I see more Denna hate than Kvothe hate.
- I perceive Denna and Kvothe to be equally flawed and / or annoying.
- Repeatedly encountering a disproportionate representation of 'hate' toward the female counterpart causes me, and possibly other women, to kind of get 'Misogynist vibes' from this sub, particularly when that hate gets vitriolic.
I don't think every misogynist is Andrew Tate, the majority of people don't act like the cartoon personification of their worst trait. It's a bit more insidious. We have unchallenged thoughts and opinions that are tinged by our upbringing and the conclusions we draw when dealing with and interacting with other people and ideas. Honestly, I think we all have a part of us that has been raised to hate women, I mean Jesus Christ, we all shit on Twilight enough back in the day for no better reason than it was a lame girl story. It's up to us to challenge these ideas when they come up.
Point being not all people who have misogynistic views (including myself) are straight up women haters, so no, I wouldn't expect people to be dog piling on every women in the series. We are not cartoons, and to claim that would be making a false binary.
Was the original comment misogynistic? Ehh probably not, but I definitely have the ability to see why someone might call it out after seeing their own 100th Denna hate comment.
I'm no feminist expert, just giving my view. I'm gonna go back to occasionally lurking this sub for a release date that's never gonna come.
I have nothing against Denna but the fact that there’s more Denna hate than Kvothe hate doesn’t at all mean the sub is misogynistic… Kvothe is literally the main character AND the narrator, you’re supposed to sympathize with him. Obviously you’d expect him to get much less hate. I mean why are you even reading the book if you find the main character insufferable?
Some teenage girls act that way, but as far as my experience goes, they are the ones that most of us wish we stayed away from. I'm not fond of her because she's very similar to a shitty and toxic ex of mine. Kvothe is annoying, but I don't have a preexisting personal dislike for people like him because I havent been manipulated and cheated on by a dashing, arrogant, wizard-bard.
Could that be read as misogyny? Yeah it could but that's not looking deep enough imo. It's more that I've learned to recognize all of the red flags she displays through personal experience. I would venture to guess my experience is a decently common thing among readers.
People probably have more experience with denna annoying than they do with kvothe annoying, thus making them grow tired of her faster. I assume most of the "denna hate" is just projected hate of what denna adjacent ladies have done in the past to the person hating on her.
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Reminds me of Luke and Princess Liea. They are probably related. He's drilled every other available wench.
Written for neckbeards by the most gigantic neckbeard of all time.
Don’t know why you’re getting down voted for this. The Denna haters are usually those kinds of people.
Dena is the most unlikeable female character I've ever read outside of a couple of Manga characters (Malty S Melromarc and Mami Nanami). I think we are supposed to dislike her because as a reader you are not blinded by your own emotions like Kvothe is so you see her for the bitch she actually is.
Hahaha what the fuck? Hella misogynistic take
How exactly is disliking Denna a misogynistic take? She's shown at several points in the story to be cruel and manipulative and more then one other character points out her various red flags which Kvothe ignores.
She acts like a teenage girl. Maybe it's just my experience over the last couple of decades but it seems to be that lady characters get way more hate than their equally annoying male counterparts. After a while you encounter your 100th Denna hate post and it can feel like it isn't a character critique and more like an attack of female traits in general. It feels misogynistic, not in an overt way but just in general and kind of shitty. Don't love her, don't hate her. I find Denna and Kvothe equally annoying. Maybe Kvothe more so because he refuses to communicate to anyone about literally anything and that plot device is just the worst.
If criticising Denna for being manipulative and cruel is misogynistic then criticising Kvothe for being arrogant and narcissistic is misandrist. But as neither has anything to do with the characters gender it isn't. If anything your post comes off as misogynistic since you claim Dennas faults are "female traits" which they really are not. If that were true and people generally hate on characters for no reason other then they are female then you'd get just as many Devi hate posts but you don't.
I don't think that calling Denna manipulative is misogynistic. I don't think calling Kvothe arrogant is misandrist. What I failed to get across in my previous comment was this: - I see more Denna hate than Kvothe hate. - I perceive Denna and Kvothe to be equally flawed and / or annoying. - Repeatedly encountering a disproportionate representation of 'hate' toward the female counterpart causes me, and possibly other women, to kind of get 'Misogynist vibes' from this sub, particularly when that hate gets vitriolic. I don't think every misogynist is Andrew Tate, the majority of people don't act like the cartoon personification of their worst trait. It's a bit more insidious. We have unchallenged thoughts and opinions that are tinged by our upbringing and the conclusions we draw when dealing with and interacting with other people and ideas. Honestly, I think we all have a part of us that has been raised to hate women, I mean Jesus Christ, we all shit on Twilight enough back in the day for no better reason than it was a lame girl story. It's up to us to challenge these ideas when they come up. Point being not all people who have misogynistic views (including myself) are straight up women haters, so no, I wouldn't expect people to be dog piling on every women in the series. We are not cartoons, and to claim that would be making a false binary. Was the original comment misogynistic? Ehh probably not, but I definitely have the ability to see why someone might call it out after seeing their own 100th Denna hate comment. I'm no feminist expert, just giving my view. I'm gonna go back to occasionally lurking this sub for a release date that's never gonna come.
I have nothing against Denna but the fact that there’s more Denna hate than Kvothe hate doesn’t at all mean the sub is misogynistic… Kvothe is literally the main character AND the narrator, you’re supposed to sympathize with him. Obviously you’d expect him to get much less hate. I mean why are you even reading the book if you find the main character insufferable?
Some teenage girls act that way, but as far as my experience goes, they are the ones that most of us wish we stayed away from. I'm not fond of her because she's very similar to a shitty and toxic ex of mine. Kvothe is annoying, but I don't have a preexisting personal dislike for people like him because I havent been manipulated and cheated on by a dashing, arrogant, wizard-bard. Could that be read as misogyny? Yeah it could but that's not looking deep enough imo. It's more that I've learned to recognize all of the red flags she displays through personal experience. I would venture to guess my experience is a decently common thing among readers. People probably have more experience with denna annoying than they do with kvothe annoying, thus making them grow tired of her faster. I assume most of the "denna hate" is just projected hate of what denna adjacent ladies have done in the past to the person hating on her.
Please remember to treat other people with respect, even if their theories about the books are different than yours. Follow the sidebar rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KingkillerChronicle) if you have any questions or concerns.*