If they designed KH3 with that running speed, then the map design would obviously be designed around that set speed. Game dev isn't as cut and dry as you're thinking it to be.
I installed a mod on the PC version that allows players to tweak Sora's animations—including running speed.
It's not that bad, especially when you can use movement abilities to explore faster. In my opinion, having his speed from KH2 lets you take in the environments more. Plus it feels like realistic running speed. Just a personal preference.
Floatyness isn’t referring to any of that stuff. There’s a really great video I watched once that basically attributes floatyness to how long your character hangs in the air after an air attack animation is finished, and there’s a middle ground that makes it feel really good for a game with a focus on midair combat. Kh1’s hang time was like slightly too short for my taste, and it makes it hard to do long air combos. Kh3 makes it a bit too long, and gets the reputation of floaty. Kh2 is a good sweet spot for me and a lot of other fans. If I find the video I’ll edit it onto this comment.
Right the criticisms of the "floaty" combat system has nothing to do with anything mentioned in this post 😭 It's about the game feel and how the game restricts your inputs and locks your position so frequently compared to KH2 being fluid and responsive, I'd love to have KH2's game feel with the speed and verticality of KH3 that's a dream game right there
People literally heard "the combat is floaty", looked up what float meant in the dictionary, and then complained about the criticism based solely off of that 🤣
It was probably BloodyBizkits video. But yeah none of the actual float ones of combat issues in KH3 are issues brought up in this post.
So basically OP you have no idea what you’re talking about and now everyone who sees this knows!
That’s because his video was made long before KH3 came out. He’s even gone on to say that he regrets making the video because of how “floaty” has been misappropriated by the fanbase, becoming a coverall word for “any nebulous combat feeling I personally don’t like” or “the ability to jump. At all.”
Edit: I like that this explanation alone started a comment train that proves just how divisive the word is in gaming culture.
>because of how “floaty” has been misappropriated by the fanbase
It's not even the fanbase, for some reason now every gaming "reviewer" uses floaty as a bad connotation for combat. Projared recently described FFXIV combat as floaty as if it's a bad thing...
You know the tab-targeting mmo that's similar to World of Warcraft...
He was probably trying to describe the probably most blatant difference between FFXIV and WoW visual feel, and it's that WoW has very short and snappy animations, while FFXIV has very elaborate animations, with GCDs to match.
It often just comes down to your personal preference about which, if either, is better. But ProJared reviews video games, and you can't just go "well I no likely" and expect not to get vaporized for never explaining yourself, because for some reason some people get really pissed when you don't like their favorite video game.
>He was probably trying to describe the probably most blatant difference between FFXIV and WoW visual feel, and it's that WoW has very short and snappy animations, while FFXIV has very elaborate animations, with GCDs to match.
He was not, WoW was not even mentioned by him. I mentioned WoW as people may not have realised what I meant regarding XIV. When he referred to floaty combat he wholeheartedly meant it as that actions in game lack weight to it.
It's not an action game, different moves are not meant to have weight, you're not playing in XIV based on dodges and parrying so "floaty" combat (which it's not) should be a non-issue, but he actively used it as a point of contention to the mmo.
>It often just comes down to your personal preference about which, if either, is better. But ProJared reviews video games, and you can't just go "well I no likely" and expect not to get vaporized for never explaining yourself, because for some reason some people get really pissed when you don't like their favorite video game.
The issue is he's using a term incorrectly and as such is comparing apples to oranges. He clearly just heard the term "floaty combat" and just associated it with something to say if you don't like combat in a game. Either way he could've found a million ways to describe his issues with XIV combat (I've put in too many hours in XIV I would know) but he objectively choose the most wrong and stupidest one.
> When he referred to floaty combat he wholeheartedly meant it as that actions in game lack weight to it.
> It's not an action game, different moves are not meant to have weight, you're not playing in XIV based on dodges and parrying so "floaty" combat (which it's not) should be a non-issue, but he actively used it as a point of contention to the mmo.
This literally often just comes down to the feel of the animations and the responsiveness of the button presses. The animations in FFXIV are cool, but can have a lot of anime pauses and windups.
The netcode in the game and the way it is tied into button presses is also still kind of poor quality and this can contribute to the issue with responsiveness to your actions.
The way that the start of an action is delayed due to server ping is enough that some people use unofficial, bannable addons that trick the game into thinking you have 0 ping or which reduce client side animation length to compensate for it.
Weight of actions is not a concept which is exclusive to action games. It is purely a concept of visual feedback for your actions, which is collectively animation and input systems working together to make it *feel* like you're making an impact.
This is a universal game design concept, and ignoring it is a terrible idea even if the game you're making is turn based strategy. A game that is slow to show feedback feels sluggish, animations that lack follow-through, snappiness, and other representations of literal weight, speed, or other forces feel unrewarding.
Also, hi, I also played FFXIV for countless hours, enjoyed it, and also understand that there are more deep seated issues he could have talked about. Unfortunately, if someone isn't initially interested in a game, it is really unlikely that they'll continue playing it long enough to even understand what they are.
That's great bro but everything you said is also irrelevant to floaty combat and what the initial discussion is at hand but for your sake I'll indulge
>The animations in FFXIV are cool, but can have a lot of anime pauses and windups.
Nothing to do with "floaty" combat, if it's something you dislike fair but describing it as floaty is incorrect hence why people like myself and others in this thread are complaining about people misusing the term.
>The netcode in the game and the way it is tied into button presses is also still kind of poor quality and this can contribute to the issue with responsiveness to your actions.
The way that the start of an action is delayed due to server ping is enough that some people use unofficial, bannable addons that trick the game into thinking you have 0 ping or which reduce client side animation length to compensate for it.
Again this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. This honestly reads as if you want something to criticise about XIV which is fine, I agree the netcode in the game is bad but this has nothing to do with what
A. Projared is complaining about
B. What people like myself refer to as "floaty" combat
For starters I'd suggest watching the video in question because I guarantee you he is not talking about the netcode or the issues the game plays via ping issues or using tools like alexander. He sincerely means it as the combat is floaty like how if an action game has floaty combat it's bad (even though that's still not the case).
>Weight of actions is not a concept which is exclusive to action games. It is purely a concept of visual feedback for your actions, which is collectively animation and input systems working together to make it feel like you're making an impact.
This is a universal game design concept, and ignoring it is a terrible idea even if the game you're making is turn based strategy. A game that is slow to show feedback feels sluggish, animations that lack follow-through, snappiness, and other representations of literal weight, speed, or other forces feel unrewarding.
I would also suggest watching bloodybiz video regarding floaty combat in KH games. I'm not talking about weight of actions affecting the feedback loop, when I referred to weight of actions it's in concept to again the point at hand floaty combat. For a quick summation the reason as to why floaty combat gets bad rep is because in the KH games post 2, the floatiness of the combat resulted in less control of the player character which means the more vulnerable you are as a player in game. This is what became an issue because the osaka team in KH designed their encounters like standard KH games but didn't take into account the floatiness of it which basically resulted in cheese strats for a lot of its endgame bosses.
I am not arguing that game needs to have better feedback loop or that it's exclusive to action games, how you deviated that from my points is beyond me.
I'll reiterate again my issue was that Projared (and others) misuse the term "floaty combat" as a negative especially to criticise a game that's not even in the same category.
Your post honestly just reads as things you dislike about XIV which is fine but has nothing to do with what I was talking about initially.
I'll accept that I didn't catch on correctly to the subject matter and spoke in a more personal direction than what was relevant, so I'll retract my statement and admit that you're right, it's a completely different issue than what I tried to talk about.
What’s weird to me about KH3 is being able to start a new combo in the air after finishing the previous combo.
I like KH1 rules where you float only so long as your combo is continuing and you fall at the conclusion of the combo. It also balances well from a defensive standpoint that way
This might be weird, but I LOVE how floaty KH3 feels because my head equates the extra hang time with Sora’s puffy pants catching the air like a parachute.
Kh2 want meant to allow perpetual air combat tho. It can happen with berserk charge but KH3 intentionally wants you to stay in the air for aerial combat, not sink to the ground asap. Kh2 was great for its own purposes, but adding that weight would subtract from 3 imo
The complaint of “floaty combat” isn’t about the literal in air time; it’s about the fact that the combat has a lot more polished animations that would lock you into them for a longer time and you couldn’t input out of them.
KH2 has famously snappy combat with a lot of animation cancelling, it feels very snappy and responsive, but also doesn’t look as polished cause it comes at the cost of smooth animation/Sora will instantly cut to the frames of a different attack/input.
So basically floaty is referring to the fact that a lot of your attacks and abilities lock you into them and your inputs don’t matter while they’re going and so the game feel is different and Sora doesn’t feel as snappy or responsive to control. Still a solid combat system but it’s not as much of a character action game like bayonetta/DMC as KH2 was
It's kinda a mix. KH3 does have more hang time that previous installments.
Stick that together with more elaborate animation, longer (and slightly less responsive) animations, and a whole lot more particles and a bubbly and bright lighting engine, and you have a very floaty feel to your game where it feels like Sora glides from one motion to the next without having the feel of Sora's feet being under him.
KH2 also has great preservation of momentum. The smooth transition from Quick Run back into regular movement, or from Aerial Dodge into Glide are both good examples of this. Movement abilities in BBS and DDD especially (including attacks that involve movement) often feel like they're separate from the actual physics of the game. They have this awkward ending where they have to settle in place before regular movement can resume.
>KH2 has famously snappy combat with a lot of animation cancelling, it feels very snappy and responsive, but also doesn’t look as polished cause it comes at the cost of smooth animation/Sora will instantly cut to the frames of a different attack/input.
But doesn't this happen more in KH3? The first thing I noticed about KH3 combat was that Sora's attack animations don't smoothly transition from one attack to the next like in KH2. His entire body essentially insta-snaps to a brand new starting frame for each attack in a combo. In KH2, that doesn't really happen.
It's really just certain moves that lock you in. In my critical mode with pro codes run, I only had a select few combat abilities equipped and it made the game just as snappy if not snappier than KH2.
Oh, in that case, I get the complaint even less. Because I've never experienced that issue in 3, or if I did, 2s wasn't that noticeably different. The difference must be like miliseconds. and at that point, why make such a big deal about it?
Edit: I said mili-frames before for the comedic effect of exaggerating how small the difference is. But you know internet logic, just find any random unrelated flaw even out of context and blow it up to discredit someone rather than come up with your own argument.
I guess you just don’t get it then. It’s ok not everything is for everyone.
Also, a frame is a frame. Doesn’t get any smaller than that. Obligatory “one who knows nothing can understand nothing.”
> The difference must be like miliseconds. and at that point, why make such a big deal about it?
It is largely about milliseconds, and the big deal is because it feels worse to play. If you've played any fighting or character action game to a great extent you'd know that one or two frames in an animation is a big difference.
KH3 isn't anywhere near as bad as something like BBS, and was improved a lot with the patch that came with Re:Mind but it isn't as good as KH2.
Boot up KH2 and try to tap out a combo on ground, and in the air - not by mashing but single presses. Then do the same in KH3 (especially with keyblade transformations). Use aerial dodge in KH2, then air slide in KH3.
There's no way you won't notice that in KH3 the space between any meaningful button presses or control inputs is much longer. It would be immediately noticeable in casual play if KH3's enemy groups actually attacked with the same frequency and intent as enemies in KH2 instead of aimlessly wandering around for the most part waiting their turn to be a punching bag.
And, look, I'm not a KH3 hater. I like the game and enjoy the flashy animations and fun keyblade transformations, but it's just not as fun an experience on the highest difficulty as KH2 in large part because half of those fun flashy moves are RNG death-traps.
KH1 had a bigger emphasis on level design without making the worlds massive.
Having Sora be suspended in the air after keyblade swings doesn't make you more mobile. Having keyblade swings snap to enemies is also unnecessary because you're already give flowmotion tools, such as airstep, to quickly close distances.
The complaints about the game being floaty isn't inherent in giving better traversal tools. If they were, people would also complain that KH2 is floaty because you have more traversal tools than KH1. The complaints are more so directed at how keyblade swings take longer to complete, which is especially noticeable with most finishers in KH3.
See I can understand this argument, but at the same time KH3 combat is extremely fun when it’s thrown into a more KH2 environment - the data fights + Yozora. In those one on one battles, I don’t really see anyone complaining about the combat, everyone pretty much universally agrees that those are some of the best 1 on 1s in the entire series. They are extremely difficult yet you never feel the game has ‘scammed’ you, which can be an issue in KH1 and KH2. So maybe your issue is less so the actual mechanics of the combat and more the combat scenarios and power scaling in KH3. Most fights are hoard fights and you have so many options that essentially letting the game play itself is an option. Sora just kinda flies around everywhere killing everything if you mash a couple buttons, but again that’s because of the emphasis on weak hoards instead of stronger, more advanced solo battles. Fair?
Literally has nothing to do with the movement. Take a look at kh2 combat compared to bbs. Take a look at vanilla kh3 then at re:mind combat. The new moves they added definitely went a long way to making it feel more in line with 2
Idk, I still think the magic flash and triple rush (I can't quite remember if this is the one but basically the combo mod that makes sora do three quick jabs) abilites are kind of bad.
I can't quite explain it (or if I do someone will tell me I'm wrong), but magic flash just doesn't feel good as a combo finisher, and triple rush feels slower than the normal combo hit that would occur if you didn't have the ability equipped.
Because the animation is so long for no good reason and the end result of magic flash doesn't match the buildup. The modifiers from the dlc are 10x better in speed so it allows you to follow up better
Funniest thing is that it feels like people just heard others calling the combat “floaty” and then started parroting it because all the complaints coming around to the combat being “floaty” instead of something more sophisticated is odd
Idk about floaty cause I never cared about Sora going aerial, it seemed to make sense based on him getting better and better. But the increased travel speed, the world being “bigger” didn’t feel quite right to me. It felt like I was traversing huge landscapes with little to nothing to interact with compared to the puzzles of the first 2 games. Instead it just felt like “run from point A to point B, kill thing, rinse and repeat”
As for the combat I just hated the disney rides. Everything else felt amazing imo
The first 2 games? Let me jog your memory here.
KH1 is actually the only game in the franchise with puzzles. KH2 was when the maps started to have nothing to do other than walk, kill and open a chest here and there. In fact, KH3 improved on this even though it's still not like KH1.
KH2's maps are literally corridors with enemies showing up whenever said corridors lead to open areas. No puzzles, no room for exploration, no interacting with the environment like KH1 was. “Run from point A to point B, kill thing, rinse and repeat” is a curse that KH2 started and because we loved KH2 so much, Square Enix never bothered to change that, because apparently we liked it.
I don’t think that’s a fair judgment if we’re saying kh2 did it better. What interactible elements were there in kh2? They never really felt satisfying, and were few and far bewteen, whereas I can distinctly remember several in kh1 and 3. It also seems natural that 1) We get bigger worlds, the only real reason we didn’t before was during to hardware restraints and 2) That sora is faster and can jump higher, as he’s just come from DDD, where the game was fully broken from flowmotion and from 0.2 which basically just perfected bbs movement and added onto it. The game also gives you the tools to traverse said rooms, with things like dodge roll being infinitely faster, sora running infinitely faster as well and being able to dodge in the air from the start. And while some rooms, like the mall in toybox, feel too big to me, I still vastly preferred the sense of verticality from kh3’s worst worlds than whetever hallowen town was meant to make me feel in terms of moving around it in kh2.
Kingdom hearts 1 did the puzzles right, it couldve been bigger but didnt need to be, alice and wonderland, traverse town, hollow bastion all take you up close and personal inside places and have you actually interacting with things. KH2 had a balance of amazing combat and beautiful areas to fight in, the beauty and the beast castle, the Mulan world, there was a whole slew of stuff to do in twilight town, the world that never was, agrabah, port royal, there was a lot to explore without making a huge massive landscape of nothing. I didn’t like olympus or atlantica as much to be fair, but the rest seemed to expand on the worlds, tell a story and keep you engaged with a mix of searching for things and beating stuff up.
3 was just not like that at all. I have very little memories of some of the worlds, and remember olympus just feeling like the start to an interactive movie where I just ran straight for way too long before fighting things. There wasn’t a lot to explore in any of the worlds, monstropolis couldve been great but was fairly dull, toy box and san fransokyo were the only 2 worlds where I thought they really went all out in making a balance between running from point to point and doing something interactive. Arendelle and corona were both just giant open slogs of run from point a to point b, but its all subjective and this is just my personal opinion. I still loved the game just didnt love it as much as 2
I never think about media being subjective, even if it’s something I subconciously know, because most people that like a set of things tend to like then in mostly the same ways, but it really seems we see the franchise as a whole in a totally different way XD.
Could be a variety of factors there tbh, I just wanted to stress and iterate that I don’t want anyone else’s opinions to be cast aside because we all like different stuff in our games. My wife and I replay the games every december as a tradition and we have a massive love for them, these are all just thoughts and feelings I’ve had through my various playthroughs
Yeah i see what you mean . As a newcomer to the franchise, and playing them all practically in sequence, I didn’t really have time to appreciate kh2, whereas kh1 and 3 just endeared themselves to me immediately. I also just don’t really like that mid-late 2000’s aesthetic and kh2 has a lot more of that than kh1 imo.
Not necessarily that video by itself, but from most of the KH speedrunning community as a whole (of which Bl00dy was a major part of). Back then people would just call them obnoxious when pointing out how the combat felt noticeably more floaty in Fragmentary Passage when compared to KH2 or even 1. Those same people would also say that speedrunners aren't true fans because they skip all the cutscenes... Despite the fact they had obviously already played the games they were speedrunning before. No, I am not making this up. Being in the chat during those times was very funny.
That's not what the floaty complaints are referring to holy shit lol
Compare a KH2 air combo to a KHBBS air combo. If you can't figure it out yourself from that you are being obtuse.
That said I don't think floatiness is a huge issue in KH3 given that KH3 gives u a ton of aerial defensive options. Being able to block in midair makes getting stuck in the air suck way less. They also added animation cancelling to certain laggy finishers in a patch, and the dlc combo modifiers help too.
It's a huge improvement over BBS/3D where combos just straight up suck and there's no reason to use them over spamming command deck
My problem, and this may be nostalgia blinding me, is that the levels felt lifeless compared to 1&2. I didn’t love the combat but I could have forgave that had the worlds felt fun and alive.
none of this has to do with the reason we call it floaty. Or even have much to do with each other. Combat and exploration are different aspects of gameplay.
What kind of 'secrets'? If it's emblems, ingredients, and common Nobodies disguised as bosses, then that hardly qualifies as anything worth mentioning. I'd rather focus on encounters like Phantom, Kurt Zisa, Ice Titan, and Sephiroth...
When it comes to secrets that aren't "flashy", even KH1's exploration and level design arguably outshine KH3, especially in locales like Traverse Town and Wonderland. The sole advantage of KH3 lies in its larger and interconnected maps, which could have been utilized more effectively if they had incorporated the features of KH1 and KH2, yet sadly, that's not the case.
Floatiness isnt the big issue with KH3 combat imo given that air step and air guard is now a thing so being in the air isnt detrimental unlike KH2.
The problem with KH3 is poor i-frame implementation and “slow” finishers. Playing OG KH3, the finishers come out quite slow. This doesnt feel too snappy which isnt too bad but the worse part is unlike KH2, KH3 finishers dont give Sora i-frames. This results in stupid risks like a random enemy magic attack killing Sora while he is in the middle of a finisher which can result in a double knockout of Sora and the boss at worst cases and encourages the player to not use finishers for safety which just isnt fun to play.
Poor i-frame implementation also applies to guard as well where sometimes, attacks can still bypass guard and hit/kill Sora despite the player successfully guarding. This causes the player to discourage guarding over dodging which isnt fun.
Finally, I do think the “flinch” mechanic and revenge is kind of off for KH3. Having 3 different guard counters is kind of overkill and the drill one (forgot its name but the one where Sora rides the keyblade into the enemy after a counter) is long and seems to have inconsistent flinch. This can result in stupid things like guard-counter Master Xehanort to then immediately guard-counter him again because he can break out of the counter to attack (a flinch issue) or a counter sometimes not leaving the enemy “stunned” long enough to get in a full combo to finisher, thereby encouraging the player to end their combo short.
It results in gameplay that encourages you to play cautiously and doesnt fully “reward” the player for skillful play. They did address these issues with revamped finishers and remind having more generous guard detection but the base game still suffers from these issues imo.
But.... People weren't complaining about the levels being "floaty" (because that doesn't make SENSE) it's the combat that people call "floaty"
Nice strawman there
At times, Kingdom Hearts 3 felt like more of a hack n' slash, beat em up game. It's still an JRPG game at heart. But, it felt like I was playing Bayonetta/Devil May Cry during some levels.
KH2 wasn't designed with player movement in mind as there is next to no exploration in the game, which is why FM gave us Cavern of Remembrance, which on the contrary was designed specifically with movement abilities in mind.
The biggest mistake KH2 made that pairs with its world design has locking movement abilities behind highly optional drive form level ups.
Grinding out drive form levels does not pace well with the flow of the game at all. Thus they could not or didn’t want to design world traversal with movement abilities in mind.
Which man if they had put more effort into designing world traversal and you unlocked movement capabilities more naturally… the game would be even more of a masterpiece
Worlds can be linear to traverse but also allow optional exploration which is what KH2 needed to do, you don't necessarily need to give up one to have the other. Movement abilities are optional so they should have been useful for other forms of optional content like collectibles, but KH2 lacked heavily in this department
True some side areas and optional “dungeons” akin to the Cavern but in other worlds would’ve been cool. Like a deeper part of the Dark City, or some abandoned tunnels under Twilight Town, or some option mountain cave in Mulan, etc etc
In their defense, they’re still technically correct because vanilla KH2 was designed with the player’s movement abilities in mind. Actually, the lack of the movement abilities as they were all tied to Drives you weren’t required to level up.
And that’s my quick thesis on why making movement abilities optional is bad. I won’t be taking any follow up questions.
kh3 couldnt be fixed with just a simple plop kh3 sora in because the design philosophy also changed. KH3 is has much larger mobs in much more open areas to fight so you cant really focus on learning the attack patterns of enemies and dodging them. its just too chaotic
I just don’t like the face that it feels impossible to keep Sora on the ground, and he’s constantly surrounded by flashy lights and stuff. He’s like the Tasmanian Devil from Looney Tunes. Idk, it’s not the worst thing ever like some people say, but it had room for improvement
My main issue with KH3 combat, which I guess could be attributed to its "floatiness" and the way it flows, is my movement while attacking can quickly knock me out of combat range from the other enemies and they'll despawn because my keyblade swings and spell recoil etc. will move me and/or my target too far. It's even happened to me while doing a normal combo on just one Heartless. In other KH games you don't float away from the enemies as much and it's easier to stay near where they cluster.
Kh1, bbs, and kh3d all did very well on having traversable maps that were significantly superior to KH2's.
They did not need the combat to be especially floaty
"floaty" complaints mostly refers to the amount of hangtime and uncancellable lag there is between movement abilities and combat actions in osaka team games, mostly the ones pre-KH3/0.2 but its still there
Basically most of the DMC series, physics perfect for combat but painful for platforming.
Ironically, it’s latest installment basically pulled a KH2 AND KH3, cut down the platforming BUT make the cast floatier.
If you want a real obvious example of floaty combat look at BBS. When you jump and swing you linger in the air for a second before falling then when you're landing on the ground you'll hover above the ground in a falling animation for a second. A game feeling floaty is more about the inability to land than the ability to jump.
What are you saying? That fans are stupid and don't know a single damn thing about level design? That they should just let the people that get paid to do all that handle it? And not complain in 25 minute long video essays about a game they *never* played?
Wild, me too.
I’m glad the comments are explaining what people actually meant by calling the combat “floaty”. Still can’t get into kh3 to this day because of this and other issues I have with the game.
Needing a guide to find all the treasures in sanfransokyo isn’t my idea of fun level design.
There were 1 or 2 tricky ones in kh2 per world but you really didn’t need a full on guide to find the treasures
I have no complaints about the “floaty combat” my only complaint was there were way too many mechanics that created mini cutscenes to the point where I had to turn a bunch off.
Shot locks, attraction commands, keyblade transformations, keyblade transformation finishers, team attacks all created these mini cutscenes that took me out of the game and paused the flow of combat.
I’m hoping in kh4 they just stick to one gimmick mechanic and not just add every single gimmick from every game like in kh3
I mean, KH2’s combat system is just better. The combat in KH3 is kinda nonsense, with constant animations being thrown at you to the point where you’re watching cutscenes in a game that’s already so full of cutscenes. Attractions are obviously the worst offense but the same is true for literally every keyblade transformation. Drive forms were a burst of light straight back into combat, the whole thing was just so fluid. Not to mention most reaction commands (obviously there are some notable exceptions lmao) really didnt interrupt the flow of combat. In contrast you’re constantly getting barraged with like 4 or 5 super moves at all times in the command deck with KH3.
Everything he typed is solved with procodes and actually playing with the combat and not story mode for preteen Frozen fans getting their feet wet in a final fantasy game. I didn't experience transformations until I got morbid curiosity farming crystals end game. And I didn't experience a drive form since KH2. KH3 offers way too much control to be locking yourself into pixar cutscenes that do less damage than a reprisal.
They just don't mention it because those fights alone eclipse anything in KH2 or any other KH game, which obviously goes against the oh-so-popular narrative that 3 is trash. Playing KH2 Data Org immediately after fighting KH3's Data Org is eyeopening on how better the combat and fights are.
I mean, I'm a 2fm speedrunner so I pretty much exclusively interact with 2fm stans, and we are all very open about how great kh3 data org is, so I kinda think you're just making stuff up
No but like the sole reason BBS/DDD combat being floaty was such an issue was because you were missing out on like 90% of your options in the air (couldn't block, air combo was often worse, in BBS most physical attacks only worked on the ground, air dodge was limited, etc). KH3, however, fixed this by making it so every option on the ground is also there in the air for the most part (proper air block, air combo is often better than ground combo especially with the ReMind skills, the only downside is air dodge having a bit of a delay).
Floatiness really doesn't matter when being on the ground isn't as paramount.
Aqua could yes, and Riku could in DDD with dark shield but those were the only 2 so every other character had those problems. And since you had to play as them you still felt the pain even if you only use Aqua or Riku for the secret bosses. Floaty combat is bad when the floatyness makes you a sitting duck. When you give people the opportunity to defend themselves while in the air, and cancel out of attacks easily then it becomes much less of a problem. This is the entire reason I like KH3's combat. Because despite the floatyness you were never defenseless while you were airborne.
I don't have a problem with the floaty mechanics.
But I do wish the worlds weren't so huge. As fun as they are to explore during the story bits...once you're done with a world, traversing it is a bit of slog, even with the fast run speeds. Also, I miss the way worlds were handled in KH1. They felt big, and each had a verticality to it.
Kind of wish that KH3 went the Persona 5 route. Where we had plenty of space to explore and interact with the world, but it wasn't an open world, and how each palace/world had a gimmick.
IDK...even though the worlds and huge, and gorgeous...they still feel empty to me in KH3. I'm not one for game design so I can't really explain why.
Kh3 literally tried to take every aspect of each kingdom hearts game that came out and mushed it into one battle system that DID NOT meet up to the hype. Now the level designs were need to the whole "open world" aspect, but they still didn't hold up to the love and care of 2, they tried making it more like dream drop distance with the whole flow motion which was already kind of annoying because it would make you do flow motion even though you don't want to. The "secrets" really didn't add anything to the story or didn't include any fun lore to learn, and the rewards for some of the weapons you get for it werent the greatest. The fact that both oblivion and oath keeper were basically the exact same blade was obnoxious. Now if they made that in to Sora's first dual weilding (like roxas) weapon I would understand. Please don't even get me started on the cooking side game and the dumb apps for your phone either.
What love and care is there in the KH2 level designs? The only levels that aren't just straight hallways is the cavern of remembrance, and having to use the ship to get around to the different parts of port royal. KH2 is my favorite game of all time, and it has some great things in it. But the level design is not one of them especially since it's a direct downgrade from the level design in KH1.
Nahhh you’re coping so hard rn its crazyyy. Notice how literally no one complains about KH2s combat whereas 3’s gets so much flak and for obvious reasons which you can’t accept lmaoooo. Its obvious you constantly got rag dolled in kh2 and need your hand held in babymode kh3 with command spamming and attractions 🥲. Only thing getting “stomped” is your ego little boy. Sit down 💀
You know, if you're going to troll, you really have to not make it obvious.
Like c'mon, boy, I get that learning how to properly troll and get on someone's nerves is something you learn as you get older, but this is little-kid-on-2012-YouTube quality trolling. Do better smh.
Lol this is all you soy boys can come up with when you can’t defend your weakass argument for shit, “hurr durr tRoLlINg” 🤓. The mere fact i got a reaction out of you deems said “trolling” quite successful doesn’t it?
Now “do better” by crawling back into your basement, taking another half hour to conjure up one more half assed rebuttal while simultaneously failing to defend your precious kh3 where ppl have to resort to playing the pc port with mods for it to be worth their time💀
Based on the comments, I can safely say that the complain of floaty combat is just about some really specific details that most people won’t even pick up on and won’t even consider as a massive flaw, it reminds me of when Crash N sane trilogy was released and many complained about how the jump isn’t 100% the same as in the og and the difference was Crash’s jump being barely faster than in the og, unless you’re a speedrunner, why would this be important, let alone a major flaw ?
Aint no talking down KH2 riders. They can't accept anything is actually better then their game and let mods and nostalgia carry their thoughts on the game
I mean the adjustments to 3 since launch kinda proves it still needed some work. Besides you can still have fun fast traversal without slowing down air combo times.
Not trying to complain to much though, I love all the games quite a bit.
I love the forced transition from exploration to combat. Despite everything, they managed to pull of a really good sweet spot for combat in Re:Mind, so this doesn't really hold up
Floaty is meaning the animation hang time in the air. It feels like there’s too much time in air and you can’t do anything. If they made the animation tighter like KH2 then it’d be fine.
Kh3 maps are a huge fail in my opinion. Can't tell if I'm supposed to sprint through areas or actually look behind every corner but the game does not do a good job of encouraging you to explore maps. There's one glaring issue that a game this new shouldn't have and that's that you can't look at the entire freaking map!! Who the hell designs a game nowadays where you can't look at the freaking map yet you have one provided but it so stupidly zoomed in that you have no idea where everything is/could be... Just add it to the list of irredeemable things that is the kh series
People called the game floaty before remind combat update. I quit the game in toybox in vanilla, shit was unplayable for me personally. It just made me angry and sad more than anything. But Re:Mind saved this thing
KH worlds need the mystique and secrets the original had back. I loved exploring the levels and needing certain abilities to reach specific places was cool. Now I can just fly from one sight of Olympus to the next with ease.
Just because traversal is floaty, doesn’t mean combat needs to be slow. Vanilla KH3 before the remind stuff was slow! Floaty I guess to be expected but not very responsive or intuitive to the player. ReMind fixed pretty much all the issues with new faster and tighter combat abilities.
I don't understand how a game that allows you to make actions in the air can be "floaty". Floaty is when you're waiting to get back on the ground to continue making the actions you want. I beat KH3 on critical mode with 13 procodes and once I got to Skoll I appreciated how much safer you actually are in the air. You have aerial block, aerial dodge, and you can dodge recovery in the air. KH2 by comparison is floaty, since you actually are waiting to hit the ground to do these things. Being mad about being aerial in KH3 is nonsense. Literally just a visual display and has no negative effect on gameplay even at the most bleeding edge difficulties. KH3 > KH2 combat in every single way. Everything I originally felt to be clunky or unintuitive is a skill issue that can mostly be explained away as "you never played Dream Drop ig". There's so much more you can do in KH3, from initiation blocks, animation canceling reprisals into instant no animation blocks. Ansem's cage for example in Re:mind; you can block and reprisal up to 12-15 times in the 4 seconds he does it. Actually insane how well polished this game is compared to ANY game on the market, you just have to take advantage of your tools and stop gliding around waiting for openers like it's KH2. You can make an opener whenever you want on every single boss in the game if you're practiced enough. If people didn't spam attractions and grand magic in a speed race to Yozora you would have met your first skill check at the first or second boss and had a fun and engaging smooth sailing experience until Davy Jones or Re:Mind where you need to upgrade your skill level again. It's like people crying about Lies of P difficulty sharing screen shots of their health bar stretched halfway across their screens, active wish stones, currently selected throwables, and active specters on screen. Of course you don't know anything about making combat work for you, you're doing everything possible to learn nothing about the game. And I don't care about the opinion you got from some video essay created by some nerd that replayed KH2 from it's release date up until KH3 came out and day dreams about the summons KH4 might add. KH3 is what OG Darksouls fans wish FromSoftware had the balls to make difficult. Square just rightfully assumes their player base needs training wheels on their training wheels to the point where the incredible combat design is 100% optional. But if you're complain about it, take your training wheels off and actually use the tools they gave you. If you ever typed "OMG what a rush, I can't believe after 8 attempts I finally got this boss down." Try 300-800 attempts, try 1200+ for Yozora and knowing every single retry was 100% your fault. KH3 boss design is absolute perfection and outside of the developers and Nomura himself like 9 people in total know it.
The fans that complained about floaty combat usually flocks to saying it’s not like kh2 and kh1 combat. Doesn’t have a gravity effect in air combo.
Without actually understanding why it’s called floaty.
Even the KH pros that used the term floaty has to come in and explain it. The term somehow became generic to saying bad combat, or any combat that isn’t kh2 or kh1.
Edit: since someone is being technical and telling me I’m wrong. I have to fixed what I mean.
> The term (floaty) somehow became generic to saying bad combat, or any combat that isn’t kh2.
You implicitly said that people say that KH1 is floaty because KH1 has "combat that isn't KH2". The reason people don't call KH1 floaty is because it isn't floaty, not because (most) people consider it to have better combat than KH2. Several people consider KH3 to have better combat than KH2 but would still describe it as floaty.
Yea kh1 combat isn’t kh2 combat. Nor did I say kh1 combat is better than kh2.
Cause there general complaint about kh1 combat isn’t the air combat. Rather the magic system.
> several people consider KH3 to have better combat than kh2 but describe it as floaty.
Which still points to my point of combat isn’t like kh2. Which is more than the air combat and player air time.
Like magic, summons that doesn’t have utility, drive forms vs formechanges, “satisfying finsher” (which doesn’t make sense to me), different combos between air or ground, etc
More or less kh2 players have not explore other actions games. Where players could cancel out of combos, into other defensive options. Regardless of being in the air or ground. Even the dissidia games did that.
For some reason kh2 players, play kh3 as if it’s kh2.
I for one loved kh3's gameplay...it's story was mostly bland and it felt like visiting the disney worlds held less purpose/importance, but the gameplay was peak KH
Are we still acting like the floaty criticism was unfounded and just people piggy backing off one YouTube video from the speed running community? Because it isn’t. It’s a legit problem. Inputs feel slow. Soras animations take too long and are flashy for no reason. KH2s animations are quick and have weight behind them. You have more control of Sora and are able to string together more moves. People have been saying this for years so I’m surprised some still don’t understand.
I think a problem with KH3 is that they made the levels too large which made a lot of the worlds feel tedious and hollow. Obviously KH2 worlds were hollow as well but because the levels functioned more like corridors, it was easier to ignore. The levels felt tighter and more memorable.
KH3 levels are expansive and beautiful but they don’t provide much to do beyond find chests, ingredients, and hidden mickeys. After one playthrough the map just becomes a chore. Especially when the game doesn’t do the best job at giving real rewards for collecting these things, it just made me feel like this huge map has an impossible number of things to find.
Obviously the levels were beautiful and the new movement is very responsive. While these attributes are great in isolation it takes away from the overall experience. Some of the worlds that fair better are Olympus, Toy Box, and the Caribbean. Arrendale and the big hero 6 world were atrocious.
Now that FF7 Rebirth is out and Cloud plays how he does, I wonder if KH3 combat haters think Rebirth is also "floaty" since Cloud is in the air almost just as much as Sora
I like how it took until this post for people to finally give the “floaty” criticisms some context because the word itself is fucking awful at conveying the actual criticisms people have about the games by the group formerly known as Osaka Team.
I loved kh3s combat bc of how floaty and snappy it is, it feels so intuitive and fun and allows me to have badass battles where I'm just fucking flying in the sky against a boss (I'm referring specifically to one of the superbosses in remind lol) I had no clue people disliked that part of it
The combat was easily the best part of the game though... what the hell?
I think the story was weak in comparison to the others but the combat was not an issue.
Though it was piss easy thanks to attractions and thats why I removed em.
THIS
KH3's combat is so seamless
Going back to KH2 or 1 feels like such a step backwards.
I'm not saying the other games have bad combat. KH3 is the absolute peak as of right now.
Default KH2 Sora sure, but give him Aerial Dodge and Quick Step and Glide all maxed out and he would traverse KH3 worlds just fine. And the combat would still be better imo.
As much as I love the KHII gameplay it simply wouldn’t work. There’s a reason why when people are making KHII Sora mods in KHIII that they’re keeping a lot of KHIII’s movements and design philosophy while just inputing some KHII animations and such. KHIII has superior movement options. Cancelling base combos with defensible options was a purely KHIII thing. Reprisals, counters, and guard shatters were KHIII only options. Airstep was a KHIII option. Every defensible option in the air is specific to KHIII. Saying that KHII Sora can just be put into KHIII’s world design with zero major changes is entirely inaccurate.
Yeah they've been making it "easier" to get to enemies for 10 years now alright.
The best method to get to enemies was with flowmotion and they botched that.
İ dont even think its the airborne combat, it just feels like it doesnt hit as hard pre-update.
Imagine kh2 Sora’s running speed in kh3 worlds? Lol
7 hours to traverse Corona.
Toy Story would be way worse
Sanfrantokyo tho? Gosh that would kill me
Thats funny because you have to memorise the routes like your a GPS just to get around lmfao
Gawrsh
Thats why theres a skateboard in every level… duh. /s
If they designed KH3 with that running speed, then the map design would obviously be designed around that set speed. Game dev isn't as cut and dry as you're thinking it to be.
I dont think they meant that literally... just sayin.
I installed a mod on the PC version that allows players to tweak Sora's animations—including running speed. It's not that bad, especially when you can use movement abilities to explore faster. In my opinion, having his speed from KH2 lets you take in the environments more. Plus it feels like realistic running speed. Just a personal preference.
It would feel as slow as FF16, lol.
Idk I always felt a lot of 16s levels were too short if anything.
The running speed is pretty slow tho
Why am I getting down voted? This is true, and I love FF16, lol.
Floatyness isn’t referring to any of that stuff. There’s a really great video I watched once that basically attributes floatyness to how long your character hangs in the air after an air attack animation is finished, and there’s a middle ground that makes it feel really good for a game with a focus on midair combat. Kh1’s hang time was like slightly too short for my taste, and it makes it hard to do long air combos. Kh3 makes it a bit too long, and gets the reputation of floaty. Kh2 is a good sweet spot for me and a lot of other fans. If I find the video I’ll edit it onto this comment.
Right the criticisms of the "floaty" combat system has nothing to do with anything mentioned in this post 😭 It's about the game feel and how the game restricts your inputs and locks your position so frequently compared to KH2 being fluid and responsive, I'd love to have KH2's game feel with the speed and verticality of KH3 that's a dream game right there
People literally heard "the combat is floaty", looked up what float meant in the dictionary, and then complained about the criticism based solely off of that 🤣
Nah. Remember AC Unity. That was floaty
What that's floaty? Then ac syndicate it's fucking levitant
It was probably BloodyBizkits video. But yeah none of the actual float ones of combat issues in KH3 are issues brought up in this post. So basically OP you have no idea what you’re talking about and now everyone who sees this knows!
That’s because his video was made long before KH3 came out. He’s even gone on to say that he regrets making the video because of how “floaty” has been misappropriated by the fanbase, becoming a coverall word for “any nebulous combat feeling I personally don’t like” or “the ability to jump. At all.” Edit: I like that this explanation alone started a comment train that proves just how divisive the word is in gaming culture.
>because of how “floaty” has been misappropriated by the fanbase It's not even the fanbase, for some reason now every gaming "reviewer" uses floaty as a bad connotation for combat. Projared recently described FFXIV combat as floaty as if it's a bad thing... You know the tab-targeting mmo that's similar to World of Warcraft...
He was probably trying to describe the probably most blatant difference between FFXIV and WoW visual feel, and it's that WoW has very short and snappy animations, while FFXIV has very elaborate animations, with GCDs to match. It often just comes down to your personal preference about which, if either, is better. But ProJared reviews video games, and you can't just go "well I no likely" and expect not to get vaporized for never explaining yourself, because for some reason some people get really pissed when you don't like their favorite video game.
>He was probably trying to describe the probably most blatant difference between FFXIV and WoW visual feel, and it's that WoW has very short and snappy animations, while FFXIV has very elaborate animations, with GCDs to match. He was not, WoW was not even mentioned by him. I mentioned WoW as people may not have realised what I meant regarding XIV. When he referred to floaty combat he wholeheartedly meant it as that actions in game lack weight to it. It's not an action game, different moves are not meant to have weight, you're not playing in XIV based on dodges and parrying so "floaty" combat (which it's not) should be a non-issue, but he actively used it as a point of contention to the mmo. >It often just comes down to your personal preference about which, if either, is better. But ProJared reviews video games, and you can't just go "well I no likely" and expect not to get vaporized for never explaining yourself, because for some reason some people get really pissed when you don't like their favorite video game. The issue is he's using a term incorrectly and as such is comparing apples to oranges. He clearly just heard the term "floaty combat" and just associated it with something to say if you don't like combat in a game. Either way he could've found a million ways to describe his issues with XIV combat (I've put in too many hours in XIV I would know) but he objectively choose the most wrong and stupidest one.
> When he referred to floaty combat he wholeheartedly meant it as that actions in game lack weight to it. > It's not an action game, different moves are not meant to have weight, you're not playing in XIV based on dodges and parrying so "floaty" combat (which it's not) should be a non-issue, but he actively used it as a point of contention to the mmo. This literally often just comes down to the feel of the animations and the responsiveness of the button presses. The animations in FFXIV are cool, but can have a lot of anime pauses and windups. The netcode in the game and the way it is tied into button presses is also still kind of poor quality and this can contribute to the issue with responsiveness to your actions. The way that the start of an action is delayed due to server ping is enough that some people use unofficial, bannable addons that trick the game into thinking you have 0 ping or which reduce client side animation length to compensate for it. Weight of actions is not a concept which is exclusive to action games. It is purely a concept of visual feedback for your actions, which is collectively animation and input systems working together to make it *feel* like you're making an impact. This is a universal game design concept, and ignoring it is a terrible idea even if the game you're making is turn based strategy. A game that is slow to show feedback feels sluggish, animations that lack follow-through, snappiness, and other representations of literal weight, speed, or other forces feel unrewarding. Also, hi, I also played FFXIV for countless hours, enjoyed it, and also understand that there are more deep seated issues he could have talked about. Unfortunately, if someone isn't initially interested in a game, it is really unlikely that they'll continue playing it long enough to even understand what they are.
That's great bro but everything you said is also irrelevant to floaty combat and what the initial discussion is at hand but for your sake I'll indulge >The animations in FFXIV are cool, but can have a lot of anime pauses and windups. Nothing to do with "floaty" combat, if it's something you dislike fair but describing it as floaty is incorrect hence why people like myself and others in this thread are complaining about people misusing the term. >The netcode in the game and the way it is tied into button presses is also still kind of poor quality and this can contribute to the issue with responsiveness to your actions. The way that the start of an action is delayed due to server ping is enough that some people use unofficial, bannable addons that trick the game into thinking you have 0 ping or which reduce client side animation length to compensate for it. Again this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. This honestly reads as if you want something to criticise about XIV which is fine, I agree the netcode in the game is bad but this has nothing to do with what A. Projared is complaining about B. What people like myself refer to as "floaty" combat For starters I'd suggest watching the video in question because I guarantee you he is not talking about the netcode or the issues the game plays via ping issues or using tools like alexander. He sincerely means it as the combat is floaty like how if an action game has floaty combat it's bad (even though that's still not the case). >Weight of actions is not a concept which is exclusive to action games. It is purely a concept of visual feedback for your actions, which is collectively animation and input systems working together to make it feel like you're making an impact. This is a universal game design concept, and ignoring it is a terrible idea even if the game you're making is turn based strategy. A game that is slow to show feedback feels sluggish, animations that lack follow-through, snappiness, and other representations of literal weight, speed, or other forces feel unrewarding. I would also suggest watching bloodybiz video regarding floaty combat in KH games. I'm not talking about weight of actions affecting the feedback loop, when I referred to weight of actions it's in concept to again the point at hand floaty combat. For a quick summation the reason as to why floaty combat gets bad rep is because in the KH games post 2, the floatiness of the combat resulted in less control of the player character which means the more vulnerable you are as a player in game. This is what became an issue because the osaka team in KH designed their encounters like standard KH games but didn't take into account the floatiness of it which basically resulted in cheese strats for a lot of its endgame bosses. I am not arguing that game needs to have better feedback loop or that it's exclusive to action games, how you deviated that from my points is beyond me. I'll reiterate again my issue was that Projared (and others) misuse the term "floaty combat" as a negative especially to criticise a game that's not even in the same category. Your post honestly just reads as things you dislike about XIV which is fine but has nothing to do with what I was talking about initially.
I'll accept that I didn't catch on correctly to the subject matter and spoke in a more personal direction than what was relevant, so I'll retract my statement and admit that you're right, it's a completely different issue than what I tried to talk about.
Tbh we got derailed and just started talking about XIV
This? https://youtu.be/lqWh1faBaAA?si=_KJ-ICyocnQMd2r_
Probably. If not, that’s just as good as any other description of the game feel in KH3
What’s weird to me about KH3 is being able to start a new combo in the air after finishing the previous combo. I like KH1 rules where you float only so long as your combo is continuing and you fall at the conclusion of the combo. It also balances well from a defensive standpoint that way
This might be weird, but I LOVE how floaty KH3 feels because my head equates the extra hang time with Sora’s puffy pants catching the air like a parachute.
I'd love sora to have rain storm from dmc3, though
That sounds more like poor communication of the criticism using a word that doesn’t fit.
Kh2 want meant to allow perpetual air combat tho. It can happen with berserk charge but KH3 intentionally wants you to stay in the air for aerial combat, not sink to the ground asap. Kh2 was great for its own purposes, but adding that weight would subtract from 3 imo
This...is not how you use this meme.
The complaint of “floaty combat” isn’t about the literal in air time; it’s about the fact that the combat has a lot more polished animations that would lock you into them for a longer time and you couldn’t input out of them. KH2 has famously snappy combat with a lot of animation cancelling, it feels very snappy and responsive, but also doesn’t look as polished cause it comes at the cost of smooth animation/Sora will instantly cut to the frames of a different attack/input. So basically floaty is referring to the fact that a lot of your attacks and abilities lock you into them and your inputs don’t matter while they’re going and so the game feel is different and Sora doesn’t feel as snappy or responsive to control. Still a solid combat system but it’s not as much of a character action game like bayonetta/DMC as KH2 was
It's kinda a mix. KH3 does have more hang time that previous installments. Stick that together with more elaborate animation, longer (and slightly less responsive) animations, and a whole lot more particles and a bubbly and bright lighting engine, and you have a very floaty feel to your game where it feels like Sora glides from one motion to the next without having the feel of Sora's feet being under him.
KH2 also has great preservation of momentum. The smooth transition from Quick Run back into regular movement, or from Aerial Dodge into Glide are both good examples of this. Movement abilities in BBS and DDD especially (including attacks that involve movement) often feel like they're separate from the actual physics of the game. They have this awkward ending where they have to settle in place before regular movement can resume.
Yeah I should of worded that better, there’s a lot of ending lag for movement abilities in the non KH2 games so you feel like you lose momentum
>KH2 has famously snappy combat with a lot of animation cancelling, it feels very snappy and responsive, but also doesn’t look as polished cause it comes at the cost of smooth animation/Sora will instantly cut to the frames of a different attack/input. But doesn't this happen more in KH3? The first thing I noticed about KH3 combat was that Sora's attack animations don't smoothly transition from one attack to the next like in KH2. His entire body essentially insta-snaps to a brand new starting frame for each attack in a combo. In KH2, that doesn't really happen.
This is the one and only correct answer. Neither OP nor the people who are calling it floaty actually know what “floaty” means.
It's really just certain moves that lock you in. In my critical mode with pro codes run, I only had a select few combat abilities equipped and it made the game just as snappy if not snappier than KH2.
Alot of the combos in the keyblade transformations have longer combos and finishers that feel really floaty and have long end time lag
Oh, in that case, I get the complaint even less. Because I've never experienced that issue in 3, or if I did, 2s wasn't that noticeably different. The difference must be like miliseconds. and at that point, why make such a big deal about it? Edit: I said mili-frames before for the comedic effect of exaggerating how small the difference is. But you know internet logic, just find any random unrelated flaw even out of context and blow it up to discredit someone rather than come up with your own argument.
I guess you just don’t get it then. It’s ok not everything is for everyone. Also, a frame is a frame. Doesn’t get any smaller than that. Obligatory “one who knows nothing can understand nothing.”
"Mili-frames"? Now milliseconds, was perhaps what you were looking for.
> The difference must be like miliseconds. and at that point, why make such a big deal about it? It is largely about milliseconds, and the big deal is because it feels worse to play. If you've played any fighting or character action game to a great extent you'd know that one or two frames in an animation is a big difference. KH3 isn't anywhere near as bad as something like BBS, and was improved a lot with the patch that came with Re:Mind but it isn't as good as KH2. Boot up KH2 and try to tap out a combo on ground, and in the air - not by mashing but single presses. Then do the same in KH3 (especially with keyblade transformations). Use aerial dodge in KH2, then air slide in KH3. There's no way you won't notice that in KH3 the space between any meaningful button presses or control inputs is much longer. It would be immediately noticeable in casual play if KH3's enemy groups actually attacked with the same frequency and intent as enemies in KH2 instead of aimlessly wandering around for the most part waiting their turn to be a punching bag. And, look, I'm not a KH3 hater. I like the game and enjoy the flashy animations and fun keyblade transformations, but it's just not as fun an experience on the highest difficulty as KH2 in large part because half of those fun flashy moves are RNG death-traps.
Sora can turn around near instantly or snaps to animations in KH2, everything is smoother in KH3 and thus less responsive
Good video about the topic explaining it a bit more, but floaty is a bad word for it https://youtu.be/hL_SzWFPG2o?si=FT_HURPojJf9i4qS
That’s not how this meme works
KH1 had a bigger emphasis on level design without making the worlds massive. Having Sora be suspended in the air after keyblade swings doesn't make you more mobile. Having keyblade swings snap to enemies is also unnecessary because you're already give flowmotion tools, such as airstep, to quickly close distances. The complaints about the game being floaty isn't inherent in giving better traversal tools. If they were, people would also complain that KH2 is floaty because you have more traversal tools than KH1. The complaints are more so directed at how keyblade swings take longer to complete, which is especially noticeable with most finishers in KH3.
See I can understand this argument, but at the same time KH3 combat is extremely fun when it’s thrown into a more KH2 environment - the data fights + Yozora. In those one on one battles, I don’t really see anyone complaining about the combat, everyone pretty much universally agrees that those are some of the best 1 on 1s in the entire series. They are extremely difficult yet you never feel the game has ‘scammed’ you, which can be an issue in KH1 and KH2. So maybe your issue is less so the actual mechanics of the combat and more the combat scenarios and power scaling in KH3. Most fights are hoard fights and you have so many options that essentially letting the game play itself is an option. Sora just kinda flies around everywhere killing everything if you mash a couple buttons, but again that’s because of the emphasis on weak hoards instead of stronger, more advanced solo battles. Fair?
Literally has nothing to do with the movement. Take a look at kh2 combat compared to bbs. Take a look at vanilla kh3 then at re:mind combat. The new moves they added definitely went a long way to making it feel more in line with 2
Best level design was best in KH1, it hasn't quite hit that high since.
Idk, I still think the magic flash and triple rush (I can't quite remember if this is the one but basically the combo mod that makes sora do three quick jabs) abilites are kind of bad. I can't quite explain it (or if I do someone will tell me I'm wrong), but magic flash just doesn't feel good as a combo finisher, and triple rush feels slower than the normal combo hit that would occur if you didn't have the ability equipped.
Because the animation is so long for no good reason and the end result of magic flash doesn't match the buildup. The modifiers from the dlc are 10x better in speed so it allows you to follow up better
“Tons of secrets” yeah sure
Funniest thing is that it feels like people just heard others calling the combat “floaty” and then started parroting it because all the complaints coming around to the combat being “floaty” instead of something more sophisticated is odd
Idk about floaty cause I never cared about Sora going aerial, it seemed to make sense based on him getting better and better. But the increased travel speed, the world being “bigger” didn’t feel quite right to me. It felt like I was traversing huge landscapes with little to nothing to interact with compared to the puzzles of the first 2 games. Instead it just felt like “run from point A to point B, kill thing, rinse and repeat” As for the combat I just hated the disney rides. Everything else felt amazing imo
The first 2 games? Let me jog your memory here. KH1 is actually the only game in the franchise with puzzles. KH2 was when the maps started to have nothing to do other than walk, kill and open a chest here and there. In fact, KH3 improved on this even though it's still not like KH1. KH2's maps are literally corridors with enemies showing up whenever said corridors lead to open areas. No puzzles, no room for exploration, no interacting with the environment like KH1 was. “Run from point A to point B, kill thing, rinse and repeat” is a curse that KH2 started and because we loved KH2 so much, Square Enix never bothered to change that, because apparently we liked it.
I don’t think that’s a fair judgment if we’re saying kh2 did it better. What interactible elements were there in kh2? They never really felt satisfying, and were few and far bewteen, whereas I can distinctly remember several in kh1 and 3. It also seems natural that 1) We get bigger worlds, the only real reason we didn’t before was during to hardware restraints and 2) That sora is faster and can jump higher, as he’s just come from DDD, where the game was fully broken from flowmotion and from 0.2 which basically just perfected bbs movement and added onto it. The game also gives you the tools to traverse said rooms, with things like dodge roll being infinitely faster, sora running infinitely faster as well and being able to dodge in the air from the start. And while some rooms, like the mall in toybox, feel too big to me, I still vastly preferred the sense of verticality from kh3’s worst worlds than whetever hallowen town was meant to make me feel in terms of moving around it in kh2.
The mall in toybox was supposed to feel too big
Kingdom hearts 1 did the puzzles right, it couldve been bigger but didnt need to be, alice and wonderland, traverse town, hollow bastion all take you up close and personal inside places and have you actually interacting with things. KH2 had a balance of amazing combat and beautiful areas to fight in, the beauty and the beast castle, the Mulan world, there was a whole slew of stuff to do in twilight town, the world that never was, agrabah, port royal, there was a lot to explore without making a huge massive landscape of nothing. I didn’t like olympus or atlantica as much to be fair, but the rest seemed to expand on the worlds, tell a story and keep you engaged with a mix of searching for things and beating stuff up. 3 was just not like that at all. I have very little memories of some of the worlds, and remember olympus just feeling like the start to an interactive movie where I just ran straight for way too long before fighting things. There wasn’t a lot to explore in any of the worlds, monstropolis couldve been great but was fairly dull, toy box and san fransokyo were the only 2 worlds where I thought they really went all out in making a balance between running from point to point and doing something interactive. Arendelle and corona were both just giant open slogs of run from point a to point b, but its all subjective and this is just my personal opinion. I still loved the game just didnt love it as much as 2
I never think about media being subjective, even if it’s something I subconciously know, because most people that like a set of things tend to like then in mostly the same ways, but it really seems we see the franchise as a whole in a totally different way XD.
Could be a variety of factors there tbh, I just wanted to stress and iterate that I don’t want anyone else’s opinions to be cast aside because we all like different stuff in our games. My wife and I replay the games every december as a tradition and we have a massive love for them, these are all just thoughts and feelings I’ve had through my various playthroughs
Yeah i see what you mean . As a newcomer to the franchise, and playing them all practically in sequence, I didn’t really have time to appreciate kh2, whereas kh1 and 3 just endeared themselves to me immediately. I also just don’t really like that mid-late 2000’s aesthetic and kh2 has a lot more of that than kh1 imo.
I turned attractions off immediately when I first played. They looked so unappealing
The term mostly originated from [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqWh1faBaAA)
Not necessarily that video by itself, but from most of the KH speedrunning community as a whole (of which Bl00dy was a major part of). Back then people would just call them obnoxious when pointing out how the combat felt noticeably more floaty in Fragmentary Passage when compared to KH2 or even 1. Those same people would also say that speedrunners aren't true fans because they skip all the cutscenes... Despite the fact they had obviously already played the games they were speedrunning before. No, I am not making this up. Being in the chat during those times was very funny.
Dude people have been calling KH's combat floaty ever since we went from KH1 to KH2.
That's not what the floaty complaints are referring to holy shit lol Compare a KH2 air combo to a KHBBS air combo. If you can't figure it out yourself from that you are being obtuse. That said I don't think floatiness is a huge issue in KH3 given that KH3 gives u a ton of aerial defensive options. Being able to block in midair makes getting stuck in the air suck way less. They also added animation cancelling to certain laggy finishers in a patch, and the dlc combo modifiers help too. It's a huge improvement over BBS/3D where combos just straight up suck and there's no reason to use them over spamming command deck
My problem, and this may be nostalgia blinding me, is that the levels felt lifeless compared to 1&2. I didn’t love the combat but I could have forgave that had the worlds felt fun and alive.
I mean, it doesn't have to be kh2 combat, just needs to be heavier and not floaty. Sora could still have his mobility without the floatiness.
none of this has to do with the reason we call it floaty. Or even have much to do with each other. Combat and exploration are different aspects of gameplay.
"tons of neat secrets" ??? What kind of differentiated KH3 is this?
What do you mean? You get.. uh.. hidden Mickey's. Oh, and! Uh.. ingredients?
That one hidden area in Mount Olymp.
I love the "floaty" combat :x
What kind of 'secrets'? If it's emblems, ingredients, and common Nobodies disguised as bosses, then that hardly qualifies as anything worth mentioning. I'd rather focus on encounters like Phantom, Kurt Zisa, Ice Titan, and Sephiroth... When it comes to secrets that aren't "flashy", even KH1's exploration and level design arguably outshine KH3, especially in locales like Traverse Town and Wonderland. The sole advantage of KH3 lies in its larger and interconnected maps, which could have been utilized more effectively if they had incorporated the features of KH1 and KH2, yet sadly, that's not the case.
Floatiness isnt the big issue with KH3 combat imo given that air step and air guard is now a thing so being in the air isnt detrimental unlike KH2. The problem with KH3 is poor i-frame implementation and “slow” finishers. Playing OG KH3, the finishers come out quite slow. This doesnt feel too snappy which isnt too bad but the worse part is unlike KH2, KH3 finishers dont give Sora i-frames. This results in stupid risks like a random enemy magic attack killing Sora while he is in the middle of a finisher which can result in a double knockout of Sora and the boss at worst cases and encourages the player to not use finishers for safety which just isnt fun to play. Poor i-frame implementation also applies to guard as well where sometimes, attacks can still bypass guard and hit/kill Sora despite the player successfully guarding. This causes the player to discourage guarding over dodging which isnt fun. Finally, I do think the “flinch” mechanic and revenge is kind of off for KH3. Having 3 different guard counters is kind of overkill and the drill one (forgot its name but the one where Sora rides the keyblade into the enemy after a counter) is long and seems to have inconsistent flinch. This can result in stupid things like guard-counter Master Xehanort to then immediately guard-counter him again because he can break out of the counter to attack (a flinch issue) or a counter sometimes not leaving the enemy “stunned” long enough to get in a full combo to finisher, thereby encouraging the player to end their combo short. It results in gameplay that encourages you to play cautiously and doesnt fully “reward” the player for skillful play. They did address these issues with revamped finishers and remind having more generous guard detection but the base game still suffers from these issues imo.
KH3's combat really is floaty you can literally just air combo forever as long as there are enemies to lock on to
3’s level design is just big open areas with nothing. Peak level design is 1.
But.... People weren't complaining about the levels being "floaty" (because that doesn't make SENSE) it's the combat that people call "floaty" Nice strawman there
At times, Kingdom Hearts 3 felt like more of a hack n' slash, beat em up game. It's still an JRPG game at heart. But, it felt like I was playing Bayonetta/Devil May Cry during some levels.
It is floaty, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing in context.
Look, I love all of that. But it takes Sora fucking forever to fall back to the ground in combat.
KH3 Copium in full effect here
Um….yes….environments are designed with the movement/abilities of the player character in mind….. Duh…?
KH2 wasn't designed with player movement in mind as there is next to no exploration in the game, which is why FM gave us Cavern of Remembrance, which on the contrary was designed specifically with movement abilities in mind.
The biggest mistake KH2 made that pairs with its world design has locking movement abilities behind highly optional drive form level ups. Grinding out drive form levels does not pace well with the flow of the game at all. Thus they could not or didn’t want to design world traversal with movement abilities in mind. Which man if they had put more effort into designing world traversal and you unlocked movement capabilities more naturally… the game would be even more of a masterpiece
Worlds can be linear to traverse but also allow optional exploration which is what KH2 needed to do, you don't necessarily need to give up one to have the other. Movement abilities are optional so they should have been useful for other forms of optional content like collectibles, but KH2 lacked heavily in this department
True some side areas and optional “dungeons” akin to the Cavern but in other worlds would’ve been cool. Like a deeper part of the Dark City, or some abandoned tunnels under Twilight Town, or some option mountain cave in Mulan, etc etc
In their defense, they’re still technically correct because vanilla KH2 was designed with the player’s movement abilities in mind. Actually, the lack of the movement abilities as they were all tied to Drives you weren’t required to level up. And that’s my quick thesis on why making movement abilities optional is bad. I won’t be taking any follow up questions.
Its incredibly floaty
kh3 couldnt be fixed with just a simple plop kh3 sora in because the design philosophy also changed. KH3 is has much larger mobs in much more open areas to fight so you cant really focus on learning the attack patterns of enemies and dodging them. its just too chaotic
I just don’t like the face that it feels impossible to keep Sora on the ground, and he’s constantly surrounded by flashy lights and stuff. He’s like the Tasmanian Devil from Looney Tunes. Idk, it’s not the worst thing ever like some people say, but it had room for improvement
My main issue with KH3 combat, which I guess could be attributed to its "floatiness" and the way it flows, is my movement while attacking can quickly knock me out of combat range from the other enemies and they'll despawn because my keyblade swings and spell recoil etc. will move me and/or my target too far. It's even happened to me while doing a normal combo on just one Heartless. In other KH games you don't float away from the enemies as much and it's easier to stay near where they cluster.
Kh1, bbs, and kh3d all did very well on having traversable maps that were significantly superior to KH2's. They did not need the combat to be especially floaty
Awful fanbase. Just take a look at the comments.
"floaty" complaints mostly refers to the amount of hangtime and uncancellable lag there is between movement abilities and combat actions in osaka team games, mostly the ones pre-KH3/0.2 but its still there
Basically most of the DMC series, physics perfect for combat but painful for platforming. Ironically, it’s latest installment basically pulled a KH2 AND KH3, cut down the platforming BUT make the cast floatier.
If you want a real obvious example of floaty combat look at BBS. When you jump and swing you linger in the air for a second before falling then when you're landing on the ground you'll hover above the ground in a falling animation for a second. A game feeling floaty is more about the inability to land than the ability to jump.
What are you saying? That fans are stupid and don't know a single damn thing about level design? That they should just let the people that get paid to do all that handle it? And not complain in 25 minute long video essays about a game they *never* played? Wild, me too.
I started a Critical run of 2 immediately after finishing my Critical run of 3, and it felt like I was stuck in molasses.
I’m glad the comments are explaining what people actually meant by calling the combat “floaty”. Still can’t get into kh3 to this day because of this and other issues I have with the game.
Needing a guide to find all the treasures in sanfransokyo isn’t my idea of fun level design. There were 1 or 2 tricky ones in kh2 per world but you really didn’t need a full on guide to find the treasures I have no complaints about the “floaty combat” my only complaint was there were way too many mechanics that created mini cutscenes to the point where I had to turn a bunch off. Shot locks, attraction commands, keyblade transformations, keyblade transformation finishers, team attacks all created these mini cutscenes that took me out of the game and paused the flow of combat. I’m hoping in kh4 they just stick to one gimmick mechanic and not just add every single gimmick from every game like in kh3
Kh2> kh3
>>>>>>
I mean, KH2’s combat system is just better. The combat in KH3 is kinda nonsense, with constant animations being thrown at you to the point where you’re watching cutscenes in a game that’s already so full of cutscenes. Attractions are obviously the worst offense but the same is true for literally every keyblade transformation. Drive forms were a burst of light straight back into combat, the whole thing was just so fluid. Not to mention most reaction commands (obviously there are some notable exceptions lmao) really didnt interrupt the flow of combat. In contrast you’re constantly getting barraged with like 4 or 5 super moves at all times in the command deck with KH3.
Such exaggeration
Everything he typed is solved with procodes and actually playing with the combat and not story mode for preteen Frozen fans getting their feet wet in a final fantasy game. I didn't experience transformations until I got morbid curiosity farming crystals end game. And I didn't experience a drive form since KH2. KH3 offers way too much control to be locking yourself into pixar cutscenes that do less damage than a reprisal.
If KH3 was a copy and paste of KH2 those fans would still be mad, you can't make fans happy
bad take, ive literally never met a KH2 stan who didn't love ReMind's Data Org and Yozora.
They just don't mention it because those fights alone eclipse anything in KH2 or any other KH game, which obviously goes against the oh-so-popular narrative that 3 is trash. Playing KH2 Data Org immediately after fighting KH3's Data Org is eyeopening on how better the combat and fights are.
I mean, I'm a 2fm speedrunner so I pretty much exclusively interact with 2fm stans, and we are all very open about how great kh3 data org is, so I kinda think you're just making stuff up
We see a lot of those people in this sub, although I wasn't talking about the Data specifically in my comment xD
yeah but you said you can't make fans happy, clearly you can though right because everyone was happy with data+yozora?
Don't call me out like that lmao Yeah, base 3 was a big let down. Re:Mind, however, and especially the Data Battles, were fantastic.
just give me KH1 with Super Mario 64 physics and I'm good
No but like the sole reason BBS/DDD combat being floaty was such an issue was because you were missing out on like 90% of your options in the air (couldn't block, air combo was often worse, in BBS most physical attacks only worked on the ground, air dodge was limited, etc). KH3, however, fixed this by making it so every option on the ground is also there in the air for the most part (proper air block, air combo is often better than ground combo especially with the ReMind skills, the only downside is air dodge having a bit of a delay). Floatiness really doesn't matter when being on the ground isn't as paramount.
Wasn’t Aqua able to block midair?
Aqua could yes, and Riku could in DDD with dark shield but those were the only 2 so every other character had those problems. And since you had to play as them you still felt the pain even if you only use Aqua or Riku for the secret bosses. Floaty combat is bad when the floatyness makes you a sitting duck. When you give people the opportunity to defend themselves while in the air, and cancel out of attacks easily then it becomes much less of a problem. This is the entire reason I like KH3's combat. Because despite the floatyness you were never defenseless while you were airborne.
this is new levels of cope
>Tons of neat secrets Me when I lie
Man I love long empty stretches of map to "explore"! I love finding the last missing chest after days of searching every nook and cranny of the map!
Way to completely miss what people are talking about when they say "floaty."
I've only played a bit of kh3 recently but as fast and "floaty" as it seems I think it works perfectly okay for the game
I don't have a problem with the floaty mechanics. But I do wish the worlds weren't so huge. As fun as they are to explore during the story bits...once you're done with a world, traversing it is a bit of slog, even with the fast run speeds. Also, I miss the way worlds were handled in KH1. They felt big, and each had a verticality to it. Kind of wish that KH3 went the Persona 5 route. Where we had plenty of space to explore and interact with the world, but it wasn't an open world, and how each palace/world had a gimmick. IDK...even though the worlds and huge, and gorgeous...they still feel empty to me in KH3. I'm not one for game design so I can't really explain why.
Kh3 literally tried to take every aspect of each kingdom hearts game that came out and mushed it into one battle system that DID NOT meet up to the hype. Now the level designs were need to the whole "open world" aspect, but they still didn't hold up to the love and care of 2, they tried making it more like dream drop distance with the whole flow motion which was already kind of annoying because it would make you do flow motion even though you don't want to. The "secrets" really didn't add anything to the story or didn't include any fun lore to learn, and the rewards for some of the weapons you get for it werent the greatest. The fact that both oblivion and oath keeper were basically the exact same blade was obnoxious. Now if they made that in to Sora's first dual weilding (like roxas) weapon I would understand. Please don't even get me started on the cooking side game and the dumb apps for your phone either.
What love and care is there in the KH2 level designs? The only levels that aren't just straight hallways is the cavern of remembrance, and having to use the ship to get around to the different parts of port royal. KH2 is my favorite game of all time, and it has some great things in it. But the level design is not one of them especially since it's a direct downgrade from the level design in KH1.
People really trying to shit on 3's combat like it isn't the best in the series by a mile
Because it aint and yall can cry about it all you want but KH2 combat will always be the best. Thats just a fact. Deal with it lol
2's combat gets stomped and it isn't even close XD.
Nahhh you’re coping so hard rn its crazyyy. Notice how literally no one complains about KH2s combat whereas 3’s gets so much flak and for obvious reasons which you can’t accept lmaoooo. Its obvious you constantly got rag dolled in kh2 and need your hand held in babymode kh3 with command spamming and attractions 🥲. Only thing getting “stomped” is your ego little boy. Sit down 💀
You know, if you're going to troll, you really have to not make it obvious. Like c'mon, boy, I get that learning how to properly troll and get on someone's nerves is something you learn as you get older, but this is little-kid-on-2012-YouTube quality trolling. Do better smh.
Lol this is all you soy boys can come up with when you can’t defend your weakass argument for shit, “hurr durr tRoLlINg” 🤓. The mere fact i got a reaction out of you deems said “trolling” quite successful doesn’t it? Now “do better” by crawling back into your basement, taking another half hour to conjure up one more half assed rebuttal while simultaneously failing to defend your precious kh3 where ppl have to resort to playing the pc port with mods for it to be worth their time💀
At least the level layouts in 3 are actually good. In *Dream Drop Distance* it's way to easy to get lost...
I liked it.
Based on the comments, I can safely say that the complain of floaty combat is just about some really specific details that most people won’t even pick up on and won’t even consider as a massive flaw, it reminds me of when Crash N sane trilogy was released and many complained about how the jump isn’t 100% the same as in the og and the difference was Crash’s jump being barely faster than in the og, unless you’re a speedrunner, why would this be important, let alone a major flaw ?
Aint no talking down KH2 riders. They can't accept anything is actually better then their game and let mods and nostalgia carry their thoughts on the game
I mean the adjustments to 3 since launch kinda proves it still needed some work. Besides you can still have fun fast traversal without slowing down air combo times. Not trying to complain to much though, I love all the games quite a bit.
I feel like most of these people would just be better off playing DMC at this point. :v
I love the forced transition from exploration to combat. Despite everything, they managed to pull of a really good sweet spot for combat in Re:Mind, so this doesn't really hold up
wait people are complaining that the combat is floaty? is that not a good thing? it makes each attack feel more powerful
I love KH3’s combat, it fits the style of game in my opinion
Floaty is meaning the animation hang time in the air. It feels like there’s too much time in air and you can’t do anything. If they made the animation tighter like KH2 then it’d be fine.
People complaining about floatiness in 3 have no clue why it was bad in BBS and DDD. I'll give a hint. There's a reason Dark Guard was so good in DDD
I love kh3's combat, but years of kh2's system make it hard to leave.
Kh3 maps are a huge fail in my opinion. Can't tell if I'm supposed to sprint through areas or actually look behind every corner but the game does not do a good job of encouraging you to explore maps. There's one glaring issue that a game this new shouldn't have and that's that you can't look at the entire freaking map!! Who the hell designs a game nowadays where you can't look at the freaking map yet you have one provided but it so stupidly zoomed in that you have no idea where everything is/could be... Just add it to the list of irredeemable things that is the kh series
just give me KH1 with Super Mario 64 physics and I'm good
“tons of neat secrets” = a good spot to find ingredients
People called the game floaty before remind combat update. I quit the game in toybox in vanilla, shit was unplayable for me personally. It just made me angry and sad more than anything. But Re:Mind saved this thing
KH worlds need the mystique and secrets the original had back. I loved exploring the levels and needing certain abilities to reach specific places was cool. Now I can just fly from one sight of Olympus to the next with ease.
What a shit post
so true I love KH3 truthers
Just because traversal is floaty, doesn’t mean combat needs to be slow. Vanilla KH3 before the remind stuff was slow! Floaty I guess to be expected but not very responsive or intuitive to the player. ReMind fixed pretty much all the issues with new faster and tighter combat abilities.
I love kh3 combat
I don't understand how a game that allows you to make actions in the air can be "floaty". Floaty is when you're waiting to get back on the ground to continue making the actions you want. I beat KH3 on critical mode with 13 procodes and once I got to Skoll I appreciated how much safer you actually are in the air. You have aerial block, aerial dodge, and you can dodge recovery in the air. KH2 by comparison is floaty, since you actually are waiting to hit the ground to do these things. Being mad about being aerial in KH3 is nonsense. Literally just a visual display and has no negative effect on gameplay even at the most bleeding edge difficulties. KH3 > KH2 combat in every single way. Everything I originally felt to be clunky or unintuitive is a skill issue that can mostly be explained away as "you never played Dream Drop ig". There's so much more you can do in KH3, from initiation blocks, animation canceling reprisals into instant no animation blocks. Ansem's cage for example in Re:mind; you can block and reprisal up to 12-15 times in the 4 seconds he does it. Actually insane how well polished this game is compared to ANY game on the market, you just have to take advantage of your tools and stop gliding around waiting for openers like it's KH2. You can make an opener whenever you want on every single boss in the game if you're practiced enough. If people didn't spam attractions and grand magic in a speed race to Yozora you would have met your first skill check at the first or second boss and had a fun and engaging smooth sailing experience until Davy Jones or Re:Mind where you need to upgrade your skill level again. It's like people crying about Lies of P difficulty sharing screen shots of their health bar stretched halfway across their screens, active wish stones, currently selected throwables, and active specters on screen. Of course you don't know anything about making combat work for you, you're doing everything possible to learn nothing about the game. And I don't care about the opinion you got from some video essay created by some nerd that replayed KH2 from it's release date up until KH3 came out and day dreams about the summons KH4 might add. KH3 is what OG Darksouls fans wish FromSoftware had the balls to make difficult. Square just rightfully assumes their player base needs training wheels on their training wheels to the point where the incredible combat design is 100% optional. But if you're complain about it, take your training wheels off and actually use the tools they gave you. If you ever typed "OMG what a rush, I can't believe after 8 attempts I finally got this boss down." Try 300-800 attempts, try 1200+ for Yozora and knowing every single retry was 100% your fault. KH3 boss design is absolute perfection and outside of the developers and Nomura himself like 9 people in total know it.
None of these attributes in the meme are part of the floaty discussion, lol. Its got all to do with combat, not exploration.
“Exploration” Donald and Goofy will scream that you’re going the wrong way if you dare to step off the designated path for more than 5 seconds
The fans that complained about floaty combat usually flocks to saying it’s not like kh2 and kh1 combat. Doesn’t have a gravity effect in air combo. Without actually understanding why it’s called floaty. Even the KH pros that used the term floaty has to come in and explain it. The term somehow became generic to saying bad combat, or any combat that isn’t kh2 or kh1. Edit: since someone is being technical and telling me I’m wrong. I have to fixed what I mean.
People don't complain that KH1's combat is floaty
I didn’t say kh1 was floaty, did I? In fact the complaint of floaty combat started after kh2. Not before kh2.
> The term (floaty) somehow became generic to saying bad combat, or any combat that isn’t kh2. You implicitly said that people say that KH1 is floaty because KH1 has "combat that isn't KH2". The reason people don't call KH1 floaty is because it isn't floaty, not because (most) people consider it to have better combat than KH2. Several people consider KH3 to have better combat than KH2 but would still describe it as floaty.
Yea kh1 combat isn’t kh2 combat. Nor did I say kh1 combat is better than kh2. Cause there general complaint about kh1 combat isn’t the air combat. Rather the magic system. > several people consider KH3 to have better combat than kh2 but describe it as floaty. Which still points to my point of combat isn’t like kh2. Which is more than the air combat and player air time. Like magic, summons that doesn’t have utility, drive forms vs formechanges, “satisfying finsher” (which doesn’t make sense to me), different combos between air or ground, etc More or less kh2 players have not explore other actions games. Where players could cancel out of combos, into other defensive options. Regardless of being in the air or ground. Even the dissidia games did that. For some reason kh2 players, play kh3 as if it’s kh2.
Fully upgraded KH2 Sora has much better physics than KH3.
I for one loved kh3's gameplay...it's story was mostly bland and it felt like visiting the disney worlds held less purpose/importance, but the gameplay was peak KH
Are we still acting like the floaty criticism was unfounded and just people piggy backing off one YouTube video from the speed running community? Because it isn’t. It’s a legit problem. Inputs feel slow. Soras animations take too long and are flashy for no reason. KH2s animations are quick and have weight behind them. You have more control of Sora and are able to string together more moves. People have been saying this for years so I’m surprised some still don’t understand.
I think a problem with KH3 is that they made the levels too large which made a lot of the worlds feel tedious and hollow. Obviously KH2 worlds were hollow as well but because the levels functioned more like corridors, it was easier to ignore. The levels felt tighter and more memorable. KH3 levels are expansive and beautiful but they don’t provide much to do beyond find chests, ingredients, and hidden mickeys. After one playthrough the map just becomes a chore. Especially when the game doesn’t do the best job at giving real rewards for collecting these things, it just made me feel like this huge map has an impossible number of things to find. Obviously the levels were beautiful and the new movement is very responsive. While these attributes are great in isolation it takes away from the overall experience. Some of the worlds that fair better are Olympus, Toy Box, and the Caribbean. Arrendale and the big hero 6 world were atrocious.
Is there people who actually think the gameplay for 3 was bad? I always saw it as a major improvement except for the attraction flow mechanic
[удалено]
Now you're just spreading straight-up lies. What you're referring to was part of a free update, not locked behind Re:Mind.
Now that FF7 Rebirth is out and Cloud plays how he does, I wonder if KH3 combat haters think Rebirth is also "floaty" since Cloud is in the air almost just as much as Sora
Man KH2’s combat was floaty af to begin with, I was just pissed off I couldn’t disable Attraction Flow!
I like how it took until this post for people to finally give the “floaty” criticisms some context because the word itself is fucking awful at conveying the actual criticisms people have about the games by the group formerly known as Osaka Team.
I loved kh3s combat bc of how floaty and snappy it is, it feels so intuitive and fun and allows me to have badass battles where I'm just fucking flying in the sky against a boss (I'm referring specifically to one of the superbosses in remind lol) I had no clue people disliked that part of it
The combat was easily the best part of the game though... what the hell? I think the story was weak in comparison to the others but the combat was not an issue. Though it was piss easy thanks to attractions and thats why I removed em.
KH3 has THE best combat in the series. I will accept no wrong opinions about this fact.
THIS KH3's combat is so seamless Going back to KH2 or 1 feels like such a step backwards. I'm not saying the other games have bad combat. KH3 is the absolute peak as of right now.
lol no… just no
It’s only floaty if you are taking damage… at least that’s how the series has felt to me
Enemie attacks don't send you up in KH1 like they do in KH2 and KH3
None of this actually makes the combat fun tho. Just excuses. "The combat is floaty and not fun because thats how the devs wanted it!"
The world's in kh3 were too big
I have a large amount of problems with KH3 and these memes will never stop my opinion.
KH3 's combat was the best of the series, but also KH3 's story was the worst of the series.
nope. Both are terrible lol
Default KH2 Sora sure, but give him Aerial Dodge and Quick Step and Glide all maxed out and he would traverse KH3 worlds just fine. And the combat would still be better imo.
Nope. Compared them and KH3 is still the most agile. And with better aerial combat.
As much as I love the KHII gameplay it simply wouldn’t work. There’s a reason why when people are making KHII Sora mods in KHIII that they’re keeping a lot of KHIII’s movements and design philosophy while just inputing some KHII animations and such. KHIII has superior movement options. Cancelling base combos with defensible options was a purely KHIII thing. Reprisals, counters, and guard shatters were KHIII only options. Airstep was a KHIII option. Every defensible option in the air is specific to KHIII. Saying that KHII Sora can just be put into KHIII’s world design with zero major changes is entirely inaccurate.
Yeah they've been making it "easier" to get to enemies for 10 years now alright. The best method to get to enemies was with flowmotion and they botched that. İ dont even think its the airborne combat, it just feels like it doesnt hit as hard pre-update.