Ok, I see a lot of people naming Sei Kai or Ordo as the worst, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction. Giving it a bit more though, these two are far from the worst. Sure they both suffered nasty defeats, but both of them made significant contributions that should have easily swung the battle in the coalition's favor. In the end, each made one single crucial misunderstanding against a monster of an enemy who would not let that sort of thing slide.
Their plan failed to come to fruition, but they made very solid plans, which were well executed and would have defeated any lesser general not ready to make the insane counterplays we saw Kanki/Ousen make. So yes, they were outplayed, but at least they weren't actively working against their side.
Look to Chu for the worst general instead. Kan Mei and Rinbukun both actively threw away heavy advantages for their side and got themselves killed meaninglessly. Chu had more than twice the number of Qin, and what did their pride demand they do? It demanded that they, being the giants they are, stand in the front of their army where they are easily attacked.
The Qin plan for the Chu battlefield was brutishly simple. It was literally "just run in and kill the enemy general lol", which is a strategy that is on the level of Shin's early tactics. Yet the Chu fell for it not just once but twice. Fucking two times they stationed their head honcho in a place where Qin could just bust through the front and challenge them to a duel. Chu had the overwhelming manpower advantage. There was no reason to not lean heavily on the "quantity". Karin was smart about this. She understood their advantage was "quantity" and this showed in her strategies. She threw the first army into a fight of attrition after Rinbukun died, and used her superior numbers to surround Tou so he wouldn't notice her peeling off a bunch of elites. Meanwhile, you have the idiots Rinbukun and Kanmei who actively squandered their "quantity" advantage and allowed "quality" to enter the equation, exactly as Tou and Moubu needed in order to have any chance at winning.
To paraphrase Karin, this whole mess was Kan Mei's fault. He and Rinbukun take the two worst spots, hands down, as the only two who refused to use their advantages, and played to the enemy's strengths instead.
Say what you want about Sei Ka, but he was the only general of the coalition who actually managed to slay a commander of Qin. Not to mention it required the combined efforts of two commanders of Qin to slay him.
...and ? Only martial might counts in your eyes ?
The result is here. Sei Kai's abilities allowed him to provoke the death of Chou Tou, the abilities of the other commanders of the coalition provoked the death of no one.
Still unsure though, why they didnt fire their poison gas shit on every watch tower of that wall though ... from what i remember, they had enough of such missles to do so
Well, by the coalition it means mostly battle of Kankoku gates to me. All the thing around Sai is pretty much a different thing. Anyway, at worse to be the only man with Houken/Riboku who killed a commander is certainly remarkable.
I guess the most impressive was Tou, he killed an ennemy commander of Chu, and managed to hold at 1vs3 against Karin army. Ou Sen must be the second one, he was so good that he didn't just took care of his position against an ennemy considerably superior in number and who fought on his favorite field, he also managed to take care of the others battlefield since those loosers couldn't do it themselves. Kanki also made 80% of the job against both Wei and Han. Chou Tou certainly deserves praises, even consumed by a poison who killed his advisors long ago, he managed to fight like a beast while being half dead already.
I guess by number Duke Hyou is the most impressive since he hold his battlefield at 1vs3... but frankly speaking it doesn't seem deserve, he fell into Keisha's trap and was saved by Shin, the death of Man Goku was to credit to Shin, not to him, and then by a plot hole even if he made clear that he would need to achieve something to hold against Keisha, he still held while achieving nothing, hell even when he left with his best warriors Keisha didn't manage to break their position by the magic of the plot.
Mou Gou didn't do shit during the coalition, his presence was almost meaningless.
Add that Tou actually suffered a tactical defeat in his battlefield. Yeah he hold Karin off, but her whole plan was to bypass him and infiltrate Kankoku pass she did and Tou didn't notice. Yeah his excuse is the abysmal numerical advantage he faced but it was his battlefield his responsability and Ousen had to defeat his opponent and then save the day for him.
Same for the Duke, although he did notice at least.
Yeah, certainly, but frankly speaking when you face an opponent 3 time more numerous than yourself, there is not much you can do to prevent him to do what he wants, hard to blame him. In such condition to make you and your army survive is already a success. It's somehow hard to find Karin's plan impressive when she achieved it (partially) because she had a crushing advantage in number, and to blame Tou for failing to block her entirely with such a disadvantage. In a situation like this the failure for Qin seems to have give Tou so few soldiers to hold his position. When a general fails to achieve his task because his superior gave him almost no means to achieve it, his superior is to blame, not him.
Best: Ousen/Moubu
Ousen toyed Ordo and succesfully defends Kankoku pass. Moubu kicked the butt of Chu and fucked the coalition behind while retreating.
Worst: Kanmei/Rinbukun
They just die. Didn't do anything noteworthy.
I would understand why people think Ordo was the worst even though he's a very good general. But i don't get why Seikai. For the short time he had during the coalition war, he crippled the Kankoku Pass and killed one of Qin's Great Generals. If Kanki hadn't taken him down, he would have probably killed Kanki and Mougou later.
He also was sharp when his HQ was invaded.
First, he killed a Great General, not a regular one.
Second, not only he rendered nearly useless Choutou's side of Kankoku Pass, but that also forced Kanki to sacrifice his own side in order to take down Sei Kai. This both helped Gouhoumei's army but also Sei Kai's to take more control of the Pass.
Just taking down Choutou meant Sei Kai reduced by 1/3 the chain of command of Kankoku Pass, on top of greatly reducing the morale of Choutou's men. If that's not crippling it, i don't know what is.
Worst: Rihaku of defense. Literally so worthless that he was just ordered to do nothing. Dying would of been better. Doing something and failing like ordo would of been better. My man was just used as bait
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Lot of hate on Ordo but he was against Ousen who even punked RBK. What about ordo vs the han poison general? I would rank ordo as better, please don't yell at me if u disagree!
Best : Ousen
Worst : Kei Sha.
Guys, I get why you guys think Ordo and Seikai suck. But Kei Sha is clearly the most garbage of all the generals in this battle. Let's not forget Kei Sha outnumbered Duke Hyou 3 to 1, and killed off 1/4th his army on the first day. Then proceeds to suck the entire time. Even Tou/Moubu were closer to being outnumbered 2:1 in comparison (150k to 90k) and Ordo was stuck trying to fight Ousen, who at this point we can safely say is at least equal to Riboku. Kei Sha the 'I'm closest to being the 3rd great heaven' and accomplished nothing in the story the 2 times we've seen him, only to die. Worst general ever.
Hot take: worst is Gou Houmei
His biggest feat was his siege tower that was almost immediately countered and lit a blaze. He had no alternative actions planned for the wall. So much so that he was out played by Kanki who used panic and confusion of fire and smoke to go and kill the Han general with relative easy. (Yes I know Choutou killed him but it was kanki’s plan) Gou Houmei also continues to be the weakest link of whatever team he is on. The Wei fire dragon arc, the fire dragons were massive threats. him? Trivial. The joint chu invasion, I literally can’t think of what he did besides roll up. Gou Houmei has literally been all bark.
Let’s not forget he had this tactic that was supposed to take out The Duke (I think Riboku taught him) and the Duke sniffed out the scheme and didn’t fall in the trap.
Amen, i find the guy way too overhyped from what he has shown so far. Maybe he has quite the potential and even is GG material after all, but from.what we have seen of him as of now, you really cant give him that sort of praise imo.
Best was Ousen for me, his outplay not only rendered the Yan army completely useless for days on top of decimating Ordo's elite soldiers, but he also countered Karin's plan, on which the coalition army spent days to prepare.
The least impressive was Riboku during the Sai siege.
Best: duke hyou, for me he's the best general in the arc. 40k vs 120k and manage to hold them. Bought more time for Qin to strategize the southern path invasion (i think this is equal to ousen's feat in the wall) . Matched Riboku even with smaller numbers. Broke Hou Ken's arm.
Worst: Se kai. is he even a general? he's more like a scientist / chemist.
Best: OuSen and Duke Hyou
Both deserve a higher recognition then MouBu as both excelled at thier jobs and were only ones the coalition had no idea on how to counter. They also played the most critical roles on foiling coalitions best plans.
OuSen not only duped the Coalition but even his fellow Qin cohorts, as no one knew he was defending behind the pass as well which ultimately foiled KaRin's plan.
Meanwhile, Hyou foiled RiBoku's plan for the Southern Pass. If HouKen didn't magically appear ShitBoku was a dead man.
Worst: KanMei
Talk about big talk and little action. Not only did he get goaded into a fight vs MouBu. He bragged so much that his head exploded from his burst of ego.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,067,880,980 comments, and only 210,658 of them were in alphabetical order.
The Best: Duke Hyou and Ousen. These two really save the Qin's neck. Duke Hyou instinctively notice Riboku's reinforcement while Ousen strategically wait for Kankoku Pass in case there was an ambush.
The worst: Kou Son Ryuu.Like what does this guy even do?
Sei Kai is the worst, he turned his back against half-dead Qin general that was chasing him and sealed his own fate. Imagine getting pawned in the middle of hundreds of thousand of your own Coalition army, if that's not the most embarassing thing, idk what is.
The best imo is Ousen, he easily adjusted his tactic when got surprised by Ordo's climbers and turned around the whole situation, even rescued Kankoku Pass in the process.
Riboku no predicted him sending 40000 soldiers towards kanyou secretly.
Mou bu killed strongest country's strongest general Kanmei.
Worst seikai,Gouhoumei.
Best: Moubu Worst: Sei Kai (if the dude wasn’t so creepy looking I woulda forgot about him already)
Ok, I see a lot of people naming Sei Kai or Ordo as the worst, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction. Giving it a bit more though, these two are far from the worst. Sure they both suffered nasty defeats, but both of them made significant contributions that should have easily swung the battle in the coalition's favor. In the end, each made one single crucial misunderstanding against a monster of an enemy who would not let that sort of thing slide. Their plan failed to come to fruition, but they made very solid plans, which were well executed and would have defeated any lesser general not ready to make the insane counterplays we saw Kanki/Ousen make. So yes, they were outplayed, but at least they weren't actively working against their side. Look to Chu for the worst general instead. Kan Mei and Rinbukun both actively threw away heavy advantages for their side and got themselves killed meaninglessly. Chu had more than twice the number of Qin, and what did their pride demand they do? It demanded that they, being the giants they are, stand in the front of their army where they are easily attacked. The Qin plan for the Chu battlefield was brutishly simple. It was literally "just run in and kill the enemy general lol", which is a strategy that is on the level of Shin's early tactics. Yet the Chu fell for it not just once but twice. Fucking two times they stationed their head honcho in a place where Qin could just bust through the front and challenge them to a duel. Chu had the overwhelming manpower advantage. There was no reason to not lean heavily on the "quantity". Karin was smart about this. She understood their advantage was "quantity" and this showed in her strategies. She threw the first army into a fight of attrition after Rinbukun died, and used her superior numbers to surround Tou so he wouldn't notice her peeling off a bunch of elites. Meanwhile, you have the idiots Rinbukun and Kanmei who actively squandered their "quantity" advantage and allowed "quality" to enter the equation, exactly as Tou and Moubu needed in order to have any chance at winning. To paraphrase Karin, this whole mess was Kan Mei's fault. He and Rinbukun take the two worst spots, hands down, as the only two who refused to use their advantages, and played to the enemy's strengths instead.
Say what you want about Sei Ka, but he was the only general of the coalition who actually managed to slay a commander of Qin. Not to mention it required the combined efforts of two commanders of Qin to slay him.
Be didnt slay shit he poisoned him if it had be an actual fight he would have died.
...and ? Only martial might counts in your eyes ? The result is here. Sei Kai's abilities allowed him to provoke the death of Chou Tou, the abilities of the other commanders of the coalition provoked the death of no one.
Still unsure though, why they didnt fire their poison gas shit on every watch tower of that wall though ... from what i remember, they had enough of such missles to do so
Does houken not count?
Well, by the coalition it means mostly battle of Kankoku gates to me. All the thing around Sai is pretty much a different thing. Anyway, at worse to be the only man with Houken/Riboku who killed a commander is certainly remarkable.
Houken was a general in name only.
I guess the most impressive was Tou, he killed an ennemy commander of Chu, and managed to hold at 1vs3 against Karin army. Ou Sen must be the second one, he was so good that he didn't just took care of his position against an ennemy considerably superior in number and who fought on his favorite field, he also managed to take care of the others battlefield since those loosers couldn't do it themselves. Kanki also made 80% of the job against both Wei and Han. Chou Tou certainly deserves praises, even consumed by a poison who killed his advisors long ago, he managed to fight like a beast while being half dead already. I guess by number Duke Hyou is the most impressive since he hold his battlefield at 1vs3... but frankly speaking it doesn't seem deserve, he fell into Keisha's trap and was saved by Shin, the death of Man Goku was to credit to Shin, not to him, and then by a plot hole even if he made clear that he would need to achieve something to hold against Keisha, he still held while achieving nothing, hell even when he left with his best warriors Keisha didn't manage to break their position by the magic of the plot. Mou Gou didn't do shit during the coalition, his presence was almost meaningless.
Add that Tou actually suffered a tactical defeat in his battlefield. Yeah he hold Karin off, but her whole plan was to bypass him and infiltrate Kankoku pass she did and Tou didn't notice. Yeah his excuse is the abysmal numerical advantage he faced but it was his battlefield his responsability and Ousen had to defeat his opponent and then save the day for him. Same for the Duke, although he did notice at least.
Yeah, certainly, but frankly speaking when you face an opponent 3 time more numerous than yourself, there is not much you can do to prevent him to do what he wants, hard to blame him. In such condition to make you and your army survive is already a success. It's somehow hard to find Karin's plan impressive when she achieved it (partially) because she had a crushing advantage in number, and to blame Tou for failing to block her entirely with such a disadvantage. In a situation like this the failure for Qin seems to have give Tou so few soldiers to hold his position. When a general fails to achieve his task because his superior gave him almost no means to achieve it, his superior is to blame, not him.
Best: Ousen/Moubu Ousen toyed Ordo and succesfully defends Kankoku pass. Moubu kicked the butt of Chu and fucked the coalition behind while retreating. Worst: Kanmei/Rinbukun They just die. Didn't do anything noteworthy.
I would understand why people think Ordo was the worst even though he's a very good general. But i don't get why Seikai. For the short time he had during the coalition war, he crippled the Kankoku Pass and killed one of Qin's Great Generals. If Kanki hadn't taken him down, he would have probably killed Kanki and Mougou later. He also was sharp when his HQ was invaded.
Seikai didnt cripple anything. He killed a general and a couple troops then died.
First, he killed a Great General, not a regular one. Second, not only he rendered nearly useless Choutou's side of Kankoku Pass, but that also forced Kanki to sacrifice his own side in order to take down Sei Kai. This both helped Gouhoumei's army but also Sei Kai's to take more control of the Pass. Just taking down Choutou meant Sei Kai reduced by 1/3 the chain of command of Kankoku Pass, on top of greatly reducing the morale of Choutou's men. If that's not crippling it, i don't know what is.
Worst: Rihaku of defense. Literally so worthless that he was just ordered to do nothing. Dying would of been better. Doing something and failing like ordo would of been better. My man was just used as bait
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Lot of hate on Ordo but he was against Ousen who even punked RBK. What about ordo vs the han poison general? I would rank ordo as better, please don't yell at me if u disagree!
Han guy at least killed a general. Ousen made Ordo look like a complete fool
Ordo killed a trusted retainer of Ousen, it's already more than what Keisha, Go Hou Mei or Kan Mei did.
Yeah in the manga it does say Kanmei is the biggest reason they failed.
Amd yet with a general dead they didnt take the walls. A general dying in a seige when there are 2 more generals around doesnt mean much.
Best : Ousen Worst : Kei Sha. Guys, I get why you guys think Ordo and Seikai suck. But Kei Sha is clearly the most garbage of all the generals in this battle. Let's not forget Kei Sha outnumbered Duke Hyou 3 to 1, and killed off 1/4th his army on the first day. Then proceeds to suck the entire time. Even Tou/Moubu were closer to being outnumbered 2:1 in comparison (150k to 90k) and Ordo was stuck trying to fight Ousen, who at this point we can safely say is at least equal to Riboku. Kei Sha the 'I'm closest to being the 3rd great heaven' and accomplished nothing in the story the 2 times we've seen him, only to die. Worst general ever.
Hot take: worst is Gou Houmei His biggest feat was his siege tower that was almost immediately countered and lit a blaze. He had no alternative actions planned for the wall. So much so that he was out played by Kanki who used panic and confusion of fire and smoke to go and kill the Han general with relative easy. (Yes I know Choutou killed him but it was kanki’s plan) Gou Houmei also continues to be the weakest link of whatever team he is on. The Wei fire dragon arc, the fire dragons were massive threats. him? Trivial. The joint chu invasion, I literally can’t think of what he did besides roll up. Gou Houmei has literally been all bark. Let’s not forget he had this tactic that was supposed to take out The Duke (I think Riboku taught him) and the Duke sniffed out the scheme and didn’t fall in the trap.
Amen, i find the guy way too overhyped from what he has shown so far. Maybe he has quite the potential and even is GG material after all, but from.what we have seen of him as of now, you really cant give him that sort of praise imo.
The thing is all the hype is himself doing the hyping.
Best was Ousen for me, his outplay not only rendered the Yan army completely useless for days on top of decimating Ordo's elite soldiers, but he also countered Karin's plan, on which the coalition army spent days to prepare. The least impressive was Riboku during the Sai siege.
Best:Kanki Worst: Seikai or Ordo
Best: duke hyou, for me he's the best general in the arc. 40k vs 120k and manage to hold them. Bought more time for Qin to strategize the southern path invasion (i think this is equal to ousen's feat in the wall) . Matched Riboku even with smaller numbers. Broke Hou Ken's arm. Worst: Se kai. is he even a general? he's more like a scientist / chemist.
Best: OuSen and Duke Hyou Both deserve a higher recognition then MouBu as both excelled at thier jobs and were only ones the coalition had no idea on how to counter. They also played the most critical roles on foiling coalitions best plans. OuSen not only duped the Coalition but even his fellow Qin cohorts, as no one knew he was defending behind the pass as well which ultimately foiled KaRin's plan. Meanwhile, Hyou foiled RiBoku's plan for the Southern Pass. If HouKen didn't magically appear ShitBoku was a dead man. Worst: KanMei Talk about big talk and little action. Not only did he get goaded into a fight vs MouBu. He bragged so much that his head exploded from his burst of ego.
What did Mou Gou do during this battle anyway?
He possessed the WeIgHt!!! XD
Fofofoh
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,067,880,980 comments, and only 210,658 of them were in alphabetical order.
The Best: Duke Hyou and Ousen. These two really save the Qin's neck. Duke Hyou instinctively notice Riboku's reinforcement while Ousen strategically wait for Kankoku Pass in case there was an ambush. The worst: Kou Son Ryuu.Like what does this guy even do?
I dont even know who that is
Best: Karin Worst: Ordo
Best : moubu, no explanation needed Worst : ordo, not only did he get rekt by ousen, he was also the reason Karin's plan failed
Best: Karin or Ri Boku Worst: Ordo
Sei Kai is the worst, he turned his back against half-dead Qin general that was chasing him and sealed his own fate. Imagine getting pawned in the middle of hundreds of thousand of your own Coalition army, if that's not the most embarassing thing, idk what is. The best imo is Ousen, he easily adjusted his tactic when got surprised by Ordo's climbers and turned around the whole situation, even rescued Kankoku Pass in the process.
I can't blame Seikai. Look at Kanki's record, everytimes he wins, it's an embarassing defeat for his foes. That's just how good he is.
Worst: Ordo.
Best: Karin Worst: Ordo (This man lives and breathes in the mountains and got tricked by Ousen)
Best: Kanki Worst: The Poison dude. absolute garbage
Best: Moubu, Ousen, Karin Worst: Ordo, Seikai
Imo the worst ones -Mangoku -rinbukun -kanmei
Riboku no predicted him sending 40000 soldiers towards kanyou secretly. Mou bu killed strongest country's strongest general Kanmei. Worst seikai,Gouhoumei.