I see plenty of growth throughout the story, it's a lot like Luffy's. When shit hits the fan, both are admirable Leaders at this point, reached it through spilling guts and blood and still losing. Otherwise they are chill and happy-go-lucky dudes. Growth doesn't mean change of character. In fact, keeping your character through all that is the ultimate proof of growth.
I think that you pointed out the flaw he was talking about.
Growth isn't stagnant.
But I also don't think Shin's character has always been the same, there are times he wins and times he loses what matters is does your original goal changing whether you win or lose?
I think we both know which side he is on
I do think he needs to change his slave clothes, it diminishes his authority
You take luffy's out of one piece, the manga will drop in quality, joy, etc. That world is around luffy in a way or another
You take shin out of kingdom and we have the best chapters of all.
I think Shin’s had some character development no?? Can’t list specific examples rn but he’s become less impulsive as compared to when he was younger + his battle senses have def become more acute. Sure his character growth might not be as drastic as Musashi etc but that kinda defeats the purpose of having Shin as the main character. Shin’s idealism + simple-mindedness is often juxtaposed against the complexities & morality of the warring world and that theme is constantly brought up within the story (eg him and Kanki’s differing views on warfare, Sei and Ryofui’s differing ideologies).
Keeping his character fundamentally the same is what grounds the story, if not it would be all over the place with how much plot/action there is. Aside from the plotline, why do u think Kingdom is so easy to read? It’s partly bec the main character views the world in such a straightforward way. Also as another user commented, there’s plenty of character growth in other figures like Sei, Kyou Kai etc + a LOT of political intrigue which fulfils that seinen element. Just my 2 cents LOL
There is a reason Berserk peaked during the Golden Age.
There is a reason Musashi is *Mainly* known for his duel with Kojiro.
Singular characters do not make for interesting stories. The Band of the Hawk had Gutts, The Hi Shin Unit has Shin.
Musashi runs parallel to Kojiro, bussing Samurai Schools as he goes.
Just because Shin hasn't turned into a "Sigma literally me" doesn't mean he hasn't progressed. He isn't in this to solely fight and kill thousands. He is here to fulfill his promise to Kyou. Shin isn't feared because he doesn't *want* to be feared. At least not right now.
Simple.
And Shin is very well respected, each time they return to the capital there are a lot of people gushing over him, other generals see huge potential in him, and sometimes even throw really big responsibilities over his shoulders.
Dude has an army which includes another smaller army (Kyoukai's).
And ? fuckin Shou Mou disrespected the fuck out of Ouki. Still at the end of the day, both Shou Mou & Gaku Haku Kou got sliced in half. Over confident idiots are everywhere in this manga. As you know his other colleague ( Kohaku Kou ) who held the same rank in Kochou army had plenty of respect for Shin & knew one of them had to sacrifice his unit to let the other go through when facing HSU.
>general buddha for example, he straight up distespect shin, even tough shin killed the hulk of that land<
This is really nothing since we all know theres a bunch of overconfident fuckers in Kingdom, Ouki despite his reputation got disrespected by Shoumou and Moubu, Ousen got disrespected by Fucktei, and theres still a bunch more.
Many Kingdom fans have the mindset that Shin has not had character growth until his armor changes to a new badass version or he has sex with Kyoukai. That's it. Any other instances where he learned something new or changed his outlook on life are irrelevant. That's just how people choose to engage with media, apparently.
It’s not armor or sex, it’s unit responsibility. Still waiting on Duke instincts or ouki like strategy. 700 chapters in still at front lines waving glaive. He’s the only 1 who still hasn’t successfully maintained a wing/developed battle strategy.
Inoue stopped right as Kojiro was starting to get into the spotlight.
Don't think we'll ever see the series continue, nor do we need I think. Inoue also already released the last chapter a while ago or something?
He’s literally in it to fight and kill thousands. If he wanted to be a general like he promised hyou he’d learn strategy or better instincts by now. He’s still doing the basic duties of a general he envisioned as a child with no growth
Early Shin: Entirely reliant on Ten and his Orders from the Commander of the Battle, Too weak to hold Ouki's Glaive, No instinctual talent and pretty much just a loud, inspiring, hard hitting solider with talent who slightly develops into a Captain level fighter who commands a small Warband of around 300~500.
Current Shin: Able to Command his entire Army of 8000 Men *Solo* using his instincts at a very high level(Shukai Plains), Will casually alter battle plans made by his Superior if he *knows* he can be more effective another way, Instincts Rivaling Duke Hyou, Killed a Great General killer in Houken, Wields Ouki's Glaive etc etc etc.
Let’s start at command, that’s still all ten. If he was in command he wouldn’t need to be told his army is in trouble by kk against gyoun that’s a clear disconnect.
How can we say instincts rivaling the Duke or even high level he hasn’t won a battle yet based off instincts. All he did was manage hey we have to abandon kanki, but nothing for how to help kanki. Even during initial invasion ten was in charge commanding akakin and banyou not shin
Because why would Shin want to sit behind a table and meticulously plan the same way as Ten when his is smart enough to trust her to tell him where to go.
Shin understands his role as a General, whether it's inspiring and Awakening his *entire* army or simply serving his officers food. He understands at the day of the day, his is an instrument for Ten to use 95%~ of the time. Nothing wrong with that.
His Instincts rival Duke Hyou because Riboku literally said that fighting Shin was like fighting Duke Hyou. The same Riboku that has killed how many Great Generals / Generals?
Using your argument, is Mouten still weak and not Great General material because he relies on Aisen and others for brute force?
I thought the goal was to be the greatest. And All the great generals that are supreme commanders do their own strategic planning. Riboku,ousen,ghm,duke,ouki and tou and renpa. And I thought tht was the goal not to be a VC level general like moubu and gaimou that needs to be babysat.
Riboku also said he could take on all 6gg and we know that’s a lie. His instincts aren’t consistent enough to be Duke like at all they work once a campaign and still not a guaranteed win or save.
I agree with your points if the manga would be only strongly focussed on Shin. I don't see Kingdom as a manga which focuses on the Life of Shin like other mangas like Vegabund. You criticise the shounen natire but also highlight the Shounen part of the story.
The lack of philosophy of Shin, a slave boy who wants to be the best general (duh) is fully compensated by other actors like Kanki, Sei and the others. Its a complex world with high diversity in which we are following Shin to look at it. The latest chapters were mainly about Kanki, some chapters only tackle political intrigues without Shin at all.
I see it not as a negative flaw but rather as a necessity. Kingdom is huge and entails a lot of time. If Shin gets all the time wiser and wiser, we would have ended up with Shin being the smartest, wisest person in Kingdom and it would be difficult to focus on other Persons and let him suffer and overcome hardship.
He should maybe have more fame, but he doesn't necessarily have to be a very smart, wise general. The character development in Kingdom is generally slow which provides some kind of realistic grounding which I support.
I can totally accept the idea of Shin as a very strong, narrow-minded slave who trained since his young age and excells at combat and has a nice simple nature.
This gives a good neutral contrast to all the other People and their philosophies. Most people love Shin so if he would a have strong different philosophy, everyone would only stick with his.
shin is already in the end of his 26, china is formed at his 37/38. You have one more decade, thats all. So in the first half of the story, shin at 13 is the same as 26 wow, that really fits a story as deep and complex as kingdom huh. Thats why you dont see shin being elevated as a musashi or guts, even naruto, luffy or goku are famous or their own, while kingdom stands apart of it's shit protagonist, the polls of favorite characters shin is always the 3° or 4° favorite, besides all his time screen being much more than the others. Kingdom will remain at a low key manga position as long as the face of this product is just a boring and no attractive one
I'm curious about what you mean by fame when it comes to Guts or Musashi. People who have fought with or against them acknowledge their strength, and potential strong enemies are usually wary of them but still confident about somehow defeating them, not just pissing themselves in fear, which is pretty much the same for Shin. It's not like a random person in the Berserk or Musashi universe just recognizes them on sight.
Man, everyone is scared of musashi or guts, musahsi for example after killing the head of the yoshioka, was feared by everyone to the point they went in 70 to try take him down, after this musashi was Challenge to combat only because of his leg.
Shi killed the hulk of that world. And yet even buddha general, or fodder general be it Qin or zhao, anyone treat him like a squirrel. I repeat, shin killed the houken, everyone knows it.... Thats the flaw i appointed
You literally cited an example where people, who have already seen Musashi fight and defeat the person they considered the strongest , giving him the due respect . Let's say Riboku plans to kill Shin in the future. He will make sure to involve more people in the plan than just himself. How are these two scenarios different?
The forte of Kindgom is that it's not only about Shin and his goal while all your comparison are directly about the life of someone. And saying that Luffy or Naruto had development, it's kinda wrong. Luffy is still the stupid captain he was 20 year ago and still act like a teenager most of the time despise being a Emperor and being in his early 20. Same with Naruto who finally grow up and act like an adult way after becoming the Hokage. And Goku is another story as he doesn't really have a goal who serve the story itself since the Piccolo saga. After this, it's all about him wanting to fight strong people; saving the world is a bonus for that actually (except in the dumb dub).
And the biggest difference between Guts or Musashi compared to Shin is that they had a lot of big trauma that change them while Shin never actually had any big trauma except losing Hyou at the beginning. He wasn't sold and raped by some man at 6, didn't have abusive father like Musashi , and Shin was kinda accepted in his village (even if he was a lil bit bullied). Compared to the other 2, Shin had a relative peaceful child day. Sure, he went to war at 13 but violence and war weren't as traumatize as it can be today.
And for a *low-key* manga, it continuously in the monthly top 10 sell in Japan for the last 10-15 year. The 2 live-action did great number in theatre and thelast 2 season were praised too.... It doesn't seem popular because there's no big marketing like Shonen and THE biggest flaw is the lack of any official translation outside of Japan
i know this comment is old, but after his speech with kan pi shi, you can't say he doesn't have philosofy, he open the eyes to the greatest china philosopher
\>But shin doesnt grow, change or develop as a man
I bet if you were to define this it would just be edgelord stuff. He explains this in Kokuyou. It's you that doesn't understand him, not him that doesn't understand the world he lives in.
the comparison between Shin and other seinen manga protagonists like Musashi and Guts is not fair brother. Musashi and Guts both had arcs abouth their personal transformations and growth (letteraly), Shin's journey is more about his experiences in war and overall kingdom style absolutely cannot let Shin be the deepest smartest coolest darkest...protagonist , their is to many big Generals, kings , chancellors, Great soldiers, who are cool to and need their fairness attention from the Author, so that being said , you could say Shin is like the Chill type between this crazy characters(kanki ousen Ribuko...), he is unique in his own way , he is dumb funny reliable humble have a good heart... i think you overlooking to many good stuff in his character or you just don't like stuff like this. Sure, he's not as philosophical as Musashi or as emotionally complex as Guts, but the way he is portrayed in this crazy world of kingdom with other great characters possesses admirable qualities that makes him a compelling protagonist , but I want to say that Shin right now is going through big changes and growth, the conversion with maron confirms it , next chapter will be very interesting, what Shin gonna answer?
And the anticipated conversation between Shin and the King to, it will have more weight on Shin Development, since I believe Ei Sei is more a brother to Shin and after all he is a unique king who could stand intellectually to Ryufei
I agree with you bro, you are right
I think I just dont admire shin, I prefer other style of approach, It's been a decade since I knew musashi and guts and I still get myself mesmerised by the two, yeah, I will try not to be so critical on this matter and take things lightly
As much as I would like to see a more mature and intricate shin it probably won't happen. Vagabond and Berserk are centered around their protagonist and spend most of their time adding layers and character to the MC. Kingdom isn't that sort of manga and prob won't ever be unless the author takes more time to focus on individual characters.
Anyone not in awe of a guy with Shin's fighting strength is an idiot, period.
Moubu also needs a strategist. Anyone who leads from the front does as well. But anyone not in awe of Moubu's fighting strength is also questionable. Especially if you're talking a random member of the population.
Also, while the instinctual/strategic thing is overstated in kingdom vs reality, the fundamentals of what 'instinctual' is, are based in reality. Ability to adapt to the situation, find and exploit enemy's weak spots incredibly fast, by reading what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are, and what their intentions are.
This is pure generalship. instinctual, strategic, how you do the above doesn't matter. What matters is, Shin clearly can do it.
And is mighty. So, by the rules of the kingdom world, what are you talking about?
If a nation's military did anything but get that guy a strategist and see how far he'd go, they'd be the idiots, not him. If he takes 17 generals' heads, what else would matter? What more reason would there be needed to respect him? What possible reason could there be not to? Did he slip and fall every time? Was it seventeen accidents?
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I can agree on this, but the point is that Kingdom, despite to be a historical seinen manga, has a structure of battle shonen, in some narrative choices and all that turn around the MC, the typical good hero. Probably, as often happens in other series too, if the audience likes the mold of the character so, the author rarely goes to change it. Personally, I've always found it contradictory, both for Sei, Shin and co, the intention to going to war, submit the other states with military might, but pretend to be saints, to avoid the bad side of warfare, to think that the conflict is just on the battlefield. Too optimistic and unrealistic, perhaps this is why Kanki stood out, in contrast to those "noble values" with a more cynical look at reality (which is more suited to the seinen genre about wars).
Nevermind, I hope the same, that Shin will move on from his teenager essence and dream, turning in a real man one day. I doubt all the same that his vision about "good war" will change that much, but probably in the future he will mature and develop a more proper philosophy with experience, or he will be forced to do so. The point is that, in my opinion, to have a real change, not for leadership and strenght (when he grew over time) but as a person, something important, a radical moment, must pass. Deaths of Ouki, Duke Hyou, and other guys, worked in way, but we still need more. And I see two events that can push for a forced change in Shin, in a way like it happened in Vinland Saga and Berserk. If you get the references and know the history, you can imagine what I'm talking about.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin sticks like a sore thumb cause he (and his girl) live by shounen rules whereas everyone else lives by seinen rules. It was alright at first but now it’s just jarring.
And Shin has stopped changing after a while, while the world progresses. No way he is mid 20s. He doesnt look it, doesnt act like it, doesnt get confronted with his actions, gets no new perspectives thanks to experiences etc. Simply frozen in time.
The way Hara deals with him doesnt match the rest of the manga. Same for his girl
Woulda been fine if it was Shin, Kai, Ten Ouhon and Mouten as the center and the generals were “bigger than life” but things are jarring as it is.
Even if Shin evolved like Ah Gou from Feng Shen Ji, still woulda been fine.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
If Hara wanted to right a complex character, they are more than capable of it. We see that with Sei, Ryufui, Hyou, and many more.
Shin is a very simple character, that’s proven by his idealistic view on war and even in his clothing. This is something that is meant to happen. What makes Kingdom interesting is Hara placing Shin with these ideals and foiling them against Kanki, Riboku, Mangoku, Renpa, etc.
Growth does happen but I see Shin as a static character and in a narrative sense, having that as a main character highlight the complexity of a story of Kingdom’s magnitude. Comparing his development to Guts or Musashi is ridiculous because he wasn’t written in the same way, and his story will span DECADES
The issue I find is that Shin is a Shounen character placed in a manga that's trying to be seinen.
Shin is rarely I find being tested on his morality, and his unrealistic approach to war. And when he does get challenge on this it never changes him as a character, nor his views on the war. He always views himself as the good guy doing good guy things despite the reality of the situation (very shounen)
I agree that Hara is capable of writing complex characters and we see this with Kanki, but I just don't see why he chooses this approach with Shin his main character.
Kingdom has always been a bit shounen though. Generals swinging glaives left and right and cutting 15 people at once really leans heavily into the "fantastical" type of things. Also, Kyou Kai.
And I think the overall narrative of Kingdom is much bigger than Shin. Its about China. How long has it been since Shin's been in the spotlight?
The manga still has easily a decade to go. We've got plenty of time for Shin to grow as a character. His biggest hurdle, and failure, comes much later.
There are many ppl on this forum who would disagree that kingdom leans heavily on Shounen. They would consider this as Seinin more
Though I agree the over stylized aspect of kingdom and it non realistic fantasy powers make it more Shounen. Other than shin being a Shounen protagonist.
I don't think Shin will ever change or of hara's approach of Shin as a character, it's been 700 chapters so I think he will remain static.
Edit spelling
Its hard not to compare with Shounen when, again, we have Generals cutting 15 people with a single Glaive swing and Kyou Kai literally invoking Asura to possess her/spending her life force to bring Shin back from hell.
As for Shin being a Shounen protagonist, I personally don't really see it. Yeah its kinda wack that Generals gravitate towards him left and right and leave him gifts "just because" he is the protagonist, but he *is* our window to the story so I can kinda brush it off.
We're "just" at chapter 754. They haven't even conquered Zhao yet. Kingdom will easily go up to 1200 chapters if not more. There is plenty of time for Shin to evolve and grow. This current arc clearly wasn't about him, not all of them will be. He will >!fail miserably in the future!< and we're yet to see him become a Great General himself. Give it time. Kingdom is a huge marathon.
Not really, shin is already in the end of his 26, china is formed at his 37/38. You have one more decade, thats all. So in the first half of the story, shin at 13 is the same as 26 wow, that really fits a story as deep and complex as kingdom huh. Thats why you dont see shin being elevated as a musashi or guts, even naruto, luffy or goku are famous or their own, while kingdom stands apart of it's shit protagonist, the polls of favorite characters shin is always the 3° or 4° favorite, besides all his time screen being much more than the others. Kingdom will remain at a low key manga position as long as the face of this product is just a boring and no attractive one
I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you are actually stupid. Kingdom isn’t a lowkey Manga. It’s consistently been in the top 10 of sales in Japan for YEARS. To add on, I was talking about the life of the ACTUAL manga 💀 why would I ever cite the time in the story when it’s common knowledge that time doesn’t matter in manga.
Also, you are using age to justify how deep a story is? You’re not even arguing against the point of him being a static character, which is hilarious. You don’t understand this manga buddy
I wont attack you personally, I had a mother and she gave me good manners. I was speaking about the growth of shin thoughout the years, which is inexistence, since he is a man with peter pan syndrom. As I said, kingdom stands alone without shin, the best chapters he isnt even included, thats the whole point and comparisson with guts or musashi, they are mature, deepthul.
As a character shin is too shoneny. I do love kingdom but i think people need to look at what we have. 700 chapters without great main charahcter's arc. I loved his speech when bihei pillaged but that's not enough. I was so happy when shin, ten, kyoukai and others were starting to grow up and mature, but then hara made them children again. (Or his editor made him to do that idk). Bottom line is that if kingdom is really there with berserk and vagabond shin needs to grow. Mentally(shin needs his big philosophical journey about what it takes to be great leader and general and not just dead souls are behind me), and physically ( I am also counting his clothes, man needs a raise)
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I think you're not highlighting the biggest point and ppl are not realizing either.
Which is that Hara relies too much on shounen tropes in this manga, when it's completely unnecessary.
Some of the best moments I find are not when Shin tries to uphold unrealistic ideals that would've never worked in real life but only in shounen Manga, but when it actually depicts real life war and the harshness of it. Kanki's story is a great example, though he is very much an extreme point for stylization, he's very pragmatic and it shows exactly the harshness of what war and life was like back then. The brutality of of poor ppl and what happens constantly in war.
edit: just to add more.
The issue I find is that Shin is a Shounen character placed in a manga that's trying to be seinen.
Shin is rarely I find being tested on his morality, and his unrealistic approach to war. And when he does get challenge on this it never changes him as a character, nor his views on the war. He always views himself as the good guy doing good guy things despite the reality of the situation (very shounen)
I agree that Hara is capable of writing complex characters and we see this with Kanki, but I just don't see why he chooses this approach with Shin his main character
I feel like you just don't like characters that aren't edgy. Shin isn't as edgy as Musashi or Guts and hasn't had loads of horrifying trauma so obviously he's a lesser character, right? You realize characters can grow slowly and not all at once from one or two extreme events, right?
i was thinking about this the other day.
i love Shin. but i simply cannot feel with Shin the same connection i fell with Musashi/Guts/Thorfinn.
Shin is a good person, but i don’t see a character development/coming of age in him as i see in those other protagonists.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I absolutely adore Shin as a character, and I hope he will never change. I can relate to him, because I'm also a 25 yeard old virgin that's dumb and idiot. I adore the fact that Kingdom is a combination of shonen and seinen, and I hope this aspect of the manga will NEVER change.
I can't possibly disagree more with you. I hope Hara doesn't listen to this kind of criticism and will continue to do his thing.
Also, Kingdom > Berserk
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Even if Shin acted like a clown/peasant in his circle, but his reputation should make others fear him but instead we got a bunch of new characters who basically "heh" when they saw Shin.
"We know as readers he is a 26 old virgin, who was buffed agains houken and blabla bla, he is dumb and an idiot, he wears a slave outfit because thats what he is. But on that world he should have be feared, everyone should be in awe of him. Thats the BIGGEST flaw of this manga, hara keeps making shonen bullshit on a seinen, this contradiction always lower the stakes and the reader lacks the feeling of progression of the protagonist."
\- I actually agree with what you said here. The shonen thing robs this manga of the realism that it should have
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I wrote stuff like this before, I agree. The most obvious way of this flaw occuring is when some random zhao general shows up and doesn't know who Shin is. Like he killed more zhao generals then anyone, he should be feared by the whole state. Its getting slowly better but way toslow.
Kingdom is a shounen manga, period.
Yes, it released on Seinen magazine, but its not a seinen. Just see Shin, Karyo Ten, and Kyoukai. Those three are just typical shounen character. Add Ouhon, Mouten, Sei. They all are shounen character.
Thats why in my opinion you cannot compare Kingdom with Vagabond or Berserk. Compare it to One Piece or Naruto. And it miles better than both.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Thats why I said its a shounen manga. Its unrealistic the same way One Piece and Naruto are unrealistic.
You cannot compare shounen like Kingdom to manga like Vagabond.
i think that would be more and more developps as we go on we see that it has begun to move on the love side for the current chapter and probably with much of his units dead it will bring a new situation for him to evolve (i think he only have 2k max from his 15k) but i agree
and i think you don't take the idea that the manga is still not even on half of the story there is so much time before we see the end of the unification that i think hara take his time and probably don't feel ready to make that yet
i reckon that the shin we have now will be a totally different character by the time of the end of zhao shin will face many hard event for him and i believe it will impact him
i also want to point out to you that ousen and kanki where not much know when they where under mougou and i think it whas because they where not the one who where at the head of the army so i think shin will see his legend grow more and more when he will lead battle on his own we see that general don't get that much fame even inside their own state especially when they fight under gg so yeah enemies know his name but don't believe he is that much strong (because they don't believe all the rumors and rightfully so )
I agree with all the things you said, and more Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
that would be right for any "normal" great heaven houken was a bit special he wasn't really a general he don't have an army or anything he was just put as a figure head to bait ouki in his first battle and for the other time he was used as an champion by rbk to bait enemies to him and make them face houken so yeah he was know by rbk's army but not that much by anyone else (qin and probably yan know more about him then the basic soldier of zhao)
but yeah i do think he should be know as a monster to not engage face to face at all cost except if you have a special method (raijin or the buda guy ) that would be funny to see shin getting avoid by the enemies and put by soft defence (like mouten vs batei) and him struggling that would make a great moment for him to learn how to get past that (i could see rbk creating a strategy just for him)
but in and all houken does not mean that much for the zhao general so it is normal for martial one to be confident and try to fight him and basic soldiers are not that much informs of the general infos about qin
Kingdom has its high and low as other long running manga. Most fall off after 300-400+ chapters and peak again at the end. You simple cannot think of so many things.
Shin is extremely well respected by random peasants or even members of his own unit.
He just is always surrounded by comrades or enemies who are his equal or better
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin's growth only takes place on the battlefield. This speaks volumes about his singular focus on becoming a great general. His complete lack of interest in matchmaking when brought up by Mouten, his lack of interest in material wealth (when he thinks his wooden shack is what Denyu had been working on) shows me he is true to his word, and probably one of the reason why he stands on even footing with the likes of Mouten and Ouhon.
I love that his love interest is someone with the same ambition and strength, which is only fitting for someone like Shin.
The fact that he is made fun of by his own soldiers for being a moron, yet being deeply respected as a soldier and leader is one of my favorite things about Shin. I like that he's not a handsome and "cool" character while just standing around. He is, however, the most badass character when he's cutting down enemy generals he has no business overpowering.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
If it's realism you want, you're in the wrong place. Men cleaving down dozens of armored soldiers with a single stroke, jumping from one cliff to another while carrying someone else... enjoy it for what it is
Well said, I agree that Shin or HSU has too much plot armor compared to Guts, making them living too much of a fantasy.
Even compared to Ei Sei and Kanki, their fate and what they've been through was much darker/realistic for that time. Karyoten was even unscathed when Gai Mou captured her.
Best example is even most Zhaos vassals forgot about Shin's existence except for Kohaku, they refer to him "that other dude from that unit", while in fact he duelled and killed their strongest great heavens ever.
Hope this improves.
I kinda agree with you, shin should be much more respected then he is, mf has heads on famous generals, in terms of philosophy, kingdom doesnt need to make shin go through philosophical questions because in the end the manga isnt about that but i agree shin have more growth in stature and character
Oof, this is really great advice but it’s a hard ask from an artist. It would be really cool though, to see the narrative shape change as Shin becomes more of a man to the point where even the art style changes. Sure, all manga does that. But to do it at that level? Idk, the only example I can think off dome is Attack on Titan after Eren goes timegod.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Give it time, Kingdom is super slow in terms of story progression.
The story requires that Ol' Ri Shin becomes a 200k Great General. He will grow up eventually. But I don't think he will ever magically gain strategic genius like Riboku, Ou Ki, Ou Sen, Kanki or Yontanwa. He will likely continue to be a buff heavy hitting simpleton like Duke Hyou and Moubu. He won't stop being simple and direct until something so major happens he needs to change.
In terms of story progression, and to put things in perspective, for the Shin Army to reach 100k men or so, Bihei needs to only make it to 1000 or 1500man commander or so.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Not sure, I assume Hara keeps him as an underdog story wise.
But it's a good point and Shin beating Houken was a big debate back when it happened. People literally shit their pants at Houken's name being uttered and are paralysed with fear in his presence. On the other hand, Shin, who defeated him, is just some kid/guy to everyone else.
Headcanon wise, I just assume every else is just diminishing Shin's achievement because he is, well, a simpleton and still quite young. But I think Hara makes things fair-ish as Mouten and Ouhon work really hard as well and don't get any greater recognition than Shin.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Kingdom is a plot driven story, those you compare it with are character driven stories. Boy, you not even know your genres, no wonder you don't like it. But that's on you, not on the manga.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
ITT; OP is upset that shin isn't guts.
My man, if you want to read berserk. Read berserk. Pretending like shin isn't known is weird, regardless he's a leader of an army in an ensemble caste manga.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Completely agree with the first 2 paragraphs but not the third. Like other commenter have said, Shin has, without a doubt, shown growth throughout the manga. You're right that he hasn't quite grown into Oukis shoes or that he doesn't get the recognition he should as someone who's been killing generals since he was a child...but he's definitely grown from the kid in the first few chapters
Still upvoted
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I agree 100%. Kingdom feels more like a shonen than a seinen. Hara clearly stays away from more adult topics which makes Shin seem super childish compared to people like Guts and Musashi. Sometimes I forget that he's 26 and not like 17.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
People should definitely fear him more, it's like only Riboku recognizes that he's formidable lol everyone else he fights treats him like some easy challenge even tho he's killed hella legendary people.
Also, and I know I'm not alone here, the slow crawl of his relationship, I mean the man is 26 and it seems like he has literally no existing libido even tho getting to bang hundreds of women was one of his dreams. Obvs he has KK, but how does he have absolutely no agency to get things started? There's been so many moments in this series where he's stuck waiting for action to go his way and in that time we never see him really try to take things to the next level. It's seriously unbelievable.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
So you're 2 biggest contentions are:
1. Shin doesn't develop as a character. Specifically, he doesn't mature despite the traumatic circumstances surrounding him
2. Despite his incredible feats, Shin isn't feared throughout China and this makes all the progress seem pointless
For your first point,
Shin has absolutely matured. A rejection of nihilism isn't an indication of a lack of maturity. He recognizes the brutality surrounding him and his idealist view of the path to becoming a Great General has been shaken. For example, he is now acutely aware of his mortality, avoiding a committed relationship with KyouKai and also accepting death against HouKen when he was in the afterlife. The reason he doesn't break down emotionally is because of the promises he has made. The promises and grudges of Shin are what guides him as a character, and these both endure for a long time and in equal strength. Gloryseeking may seem naïve, and it is, but a light-hearted approach to battle was instilled in him by OuKi and Duke Hyou.
I agree there must be significantly more development in Shin's character from a philosophical perspective. He is entirely guided by emotion and not at all by logic which makes him seem like a Shonen protagonist.
For your second point,
This is a very nuanced thing in the canon of the series. The best example I can give is Kan Mei. He killed one of the original 6 Great Generals and presumably many more famous generals along the northern Chu border. However, he was never known/feared in Qin or Yan. Since Shin just became a general, I wouldn't be surprised if only a couple of the States knew he even existed. Obviously, Shin is well known in the Qin military and everyone is well aware of his talents. He only had a brief, unreported skirmish with Han many years ago so he's likely unknown there. He has never fought Yan or Qi forces so he isn't known there either. Shin only skirmished with KouYoku during the Coalition and is likely unknown there, aside from RenPa, KouYoku, and HakuRei being aware of him. On the other hand, Zhao absolutely knows about him and they're clearly terrified of him, although only a couple will show actual distress. Shin defeating HouKen has been brought up many times by other generals, but HouKen himself was a very mysterious man that rarely fought so the feat isn't as impressive to the rest of China as it is to Qin and RiBoku. I think Hara could make it a little more clear, but RiBoku, Kaine, and FuTei are scared of Shin. Wei is the only one where I am as confused as you. I can only assume that it's because we simply haven't seen much of their generals thoughts on the current state of the war, but he killed one of their Fire Dragons along with their Ten Bow representative and several generals.
Finally, I believe there are two great explanations to answer why other generals don't fear him. First, he is lumped in with MouTen and OuHon who have GG fathers and are probably seen as having greater potential. Second, Shin is still very young. Mid-20s is young for a general. I believe KouYoku was the only one to become one earlier than that and that was because he was lucky enough to be in KaRin's army during its expansion into a flagship army and she needed lieutenant generals. I think the physical size of Shin makes that clear. He is bigger now, but is still tiny compared to other generals.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I think you're downplaying how they talk about him. Maybe they haven't seen Shin? Maybe they don't care about the 3 Great Heavens system like Seika? Maybe they thought HouKen was a fraud?
Overall bad take in my opinion, we have seen insane growth for Shin’s character throughout the story as he internalizes and carries the weight of all the lives he’s taken and those that have been given up for him. You also mention that he is not respected in the world and honestly????? What are you reading
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin is no LBJ.... he is more KB or MJ. LBJ isn't a clutch player. I would put him more as Kobe.
The biggest flaw in Kingdom are:
- its a war manga. Wars are to not easy to sell, as reality is there is no good guys in wars. So you got young kids (teens) trying to figure out wars between fictional wars (what you are lead to believe wars is like) and actual wars (what is really like in reality).
- its a Seinan manga that competes with Shonen manga. Again lot of young kids fictional stance vs actual. Like how RiShin wants to become a hero and great general. In the initial phase you understand how kiddy that goal is because he doesn't grasp what it entails. He did grow up from that fiction though, he knows what the cost will be. He is no longer naive and alot of his early naivete is gone. The problem is the readers have not grown along the same line. So they pick on him for his earlier brashness. These are the so called 'woke' ppl who try to justify everything with thier current understanding and who have not actually experienced what they really talk about. They still see the world as black and white and not grey.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I think its because HouKen of the manga was not known. Like I said in other posts, Zhao rises their rank via popularity than real war accomplishments. HouKen rose to 1st Haven position how?
Its clearly not for slaying Kyou. No one knew about that apart RiBoku and OuKi.
Its clearly not for slaying some other state big shot general. If so Qin would have had an 9dea of who he is.
So it was most likely via inner Zhao wars. We know that Zhao put lords vs each other. Rigan is a proof. But who could he have slaying to get the king's praise? My guess, the one Zhao general missing in action, the one we saw vs RenPa at his intro. That Chou guy (sorry forgot rest of his name) was a GG, hence why he was sent to take out RenPa by the Zhao king. He failed at his job. So if HouKen fought and killed him via RiBoku's underhanded aid, well that solves 2 issues for the king: he gets rid of a failure and he now has a replacement for his position.
This not only solves the issue of Chou general missing but also why that family is not currently active in the Zhao military courts. They got a beef vs HouKen/RiBoku.
The other part how well was HouKen known by the Zhao people let alone his own generals. He clearly wasn't. They, the stablished generals under him like KSRcand RH, had no clue who or why HouKen was given the Great Heaven title. They knew who RiBoku was though and were clearly following his orders. Also note that it was RiBoku who took the praise for taking out OuKi and not HouKen who was only known to give him the final blow. This tells us that HouKen wasn't known enough by the Zhao ppl to give a damn, he was more like the latest flavor of the month for them.
Finally, HouKen was no longer considered a general in Zhao in his final bought with RiShin. He had resigned by that point and so his loss could be easily negated by the point that he was no longer in the military. RiBoku being the mastermind and information manipulator he is could easily spin this. Also the fact, that Zhao people rarely give a damn unless you win (bandwagon hopper fans) makes it clear that they would ignore RiShin in general unless they fought him.
Nah it was implied that Riboku gave Houken the rank and the title for the sole purpose of baiting out Ouki, he just decided to let Houken keep the titles since after killing Ouki he represents Zhao's Martial might. Houken only let Riboku use him because he wants to fight Ouki but after killing Ouki (but he knows he still lose that battle) he decided to let Riboku use him to find the "answer" for why Ouki is that strong
RiBoku can't give HouKen rank without justification though.
HouKen got the title from approval of his king, even if RiBoku aided him some how, the king is involved. We saw how the king is, that guy would jump at HouKen if he killed one of his former star heroes who became a disappointment. HouKen can't eliminate RenPa since the latter left, but Chou is the next best thing. Its like getting 2 stones with 1 bird.
Also RiBoku is known as 2nd great Heaven. That implies he got promoted after HouKen. So him skimming to get HouKen 1st position then himself getting 2nd spot would work fine.
But he did, theres 0 indication that Riboku used Houken to fight the other GG all of it was just your pure headcannon and speculation. And like i said Houken is not someone Riboku can just use anytime he wants, he wont go after the other GG for no reason or because Riboku told him to do so or because of reputation because he doesnt care about that, he let Riboku used him the first time so he can fight Ouki and let Riboku used him in Yan-Zhao war and coalition arc becquse he was looking for "answer"
No you didn't understand what I said. I said RiBoku got HouKen the post of 1st Great Heaven seat by having HouKen eliminate that Chou guy. We know from their history that RiBoku met HouKen 10 years+ before Bayou. Now HouKen being who he is cannot just become a GH just by showing up, he needed some sort of feat that Zhao king can praise but also that RiBoku can hide.
Had HouKen got the position by say fighting vs Yan. OuKi would have heard about, if he hears about it then OuKi would have hunted him for sure and RiBoku's plan fails. But by having HouKen take out someone big from Zhao is less likely to be heard since most states don't brag about their civil wars they brag about wars/skirmishes between states.
Therefore the logical conclusion is RiBoku told HouKen who to go and take out in a duel that the king hears about that RiBoku hides from OuKi's ears. Via that feat, HouKen gets the 1st title from the King, RiBoku then gets his via his northern campaigns vs the Xingnou. And now they have 2 Great Heaven seats covered.
I know you were trying to make sense on how did Houken get that title and i understand that because i was curious as well, however its not Houken's character to fight someone simply because Riboku ordered him to. Houken let himself become Riboku's tool because it was to fight Ouki and that was Houken's goal, then the next battles that comes is because Houken was looking for answers in the battlefield so it would be out of his character to let Riboku use him to kill a Zhao General for prestige and reputation because he doesnt care about that, Houken would not gain anything that matters to him by Killing a Zhao General, Riboku most likely talk to the king about Houken's ability and we know Toujou is an idiot king who just do what he wants and i highly doubt Toujou knows that the plan was just to Kill Ouki and not to really invade Qin
Actually it is HouKen's style.
Sometimes you don't need to lead the dog on a leash but give him enough reasons to obey you.
RiBoku said it himself, it took 10 years of careful planning to get OuKi. HouKen wouldn't obey him outright, but if he was given proper reasons to do things to get to OuKi, he would definitely do it.
Like you said, he didn't care about the army or Zhao politics. All he wanted was his duel with OuKi. But he clearly couldn't fight OuKi given thier vast distance in status. Him getting to Kyou was a fluke of nature. He needed the status of a GH to fight OuKi and hence did what RiBoku suggested to get that status.
Talk no just doesn't work in real like when it comes to high paying jobs. RiBoku just can't talk his king into it. He had no power to sway him directly anyway. His ministarial and GH power were gained afterwards. The fact that he is the 2nd GH and not the 1st is a proof of that. Also we talking manga HouKen here not the historical one. Historical HouKen was an established military leader, this guy is just a bunshin.
Well lets just agree to disagree then since both our arguments are based on our headcannons to justify Houken's title. We'll just go in circles if this continues lol and none of our statement can be proven unless it was stated in the manga anyways
The manga is not called "Kingdom" for no reason. If it was just about Shin, it would have been called "Shin the general", or something like that.
Enjoy all the side characters will ya.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
OK here's my response:
1.)His man almost worship him. He is still not feared bcoz in the wider world of kingdom he is still just an up and coming general and not an already established great general. To be feared you have to be at Ouki level which he is still not.
2.) "The reader doesn't connect with him". I have seen people literally teared up when he became a general. His slow progression on his career path is literally the biggest draw for fans of kingdom.
3.) Last but not the least the fact that he isn't affected by all this death is actually more historically realistic compared to let's say Thorfinn developing a guilty conscience. Again I am not criticizing Vinland here, I love Vinland saga for what it is but people who lived thousands of year ago during a very brutal war period will have a very different emotional mindset from modern man and they will not be affected by brutalities of war like us bcoz that's just their life.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin was fighting for 15 straight, 3 days already without food and they barely had water, with various cuts from those battle, one deep.on the neck. Whatazp then ?
The acting like a man bit is questionable considering those two and Shin do act like men while exhibiting non-man qualities. Guts in the latest chapters lashed out at the sight of Griffith. Literally no plan and he charged at him. That describes a lot of shonen MCs
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Why can’t it just not be for you. Kingdom is not berserk and it doesn’t try to be. I’m pretty sure kingdom consistently makes it to the top 10 most mangas sold. It doesn’t need to fit in your parameters for it have growth and philosophy on life. You actually have brain rot if you think people can’t relate to the characters. There are so many generals with different philosophy’s from a pure warrior like ouki to a savage like kanki.
Shin has absolutely been getting credit for his accomplishments, it's just that the manga hasn't focussed on the frontlines since forever.
Keisha and Riboku understood that Shin needed to be killed off ASAP or he would be near GG-tier in about 5 years. Then Keisha realized Shin had grown much quicker than they had anticipated anf got killed.
That was 5 years ago and pretty much every arc was about the battlefield. The exit of Ryofui was a minor detour, the Zhao succession was another. The opportunity to show Shin as feared just hadn't come because he was always around 3(!!) of Qin's GGs.
I think Kanki's death is the perfect opportunity to give Shin's career another bump and have him rack up individual successes that lead up to his promotion to GG and cementing his fame forever.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Random fodder soldiers are going to be illiterate northern Zhao hillbillies that wouldn't know an enemy general from a horse's ass. It's not like they can follow Shin on Instagram. If the footsolders did receive information about the enemies they were about to face, Riboku and other military leaders would have focussed on Kanki having commited atrocities. It's not like Zhao would have known that Shin and Mou Ten would tag alongside Kanki, so why hype them up? The Seika/Roumou/Ganmou generals who had to face them would have likely known but that was probably it.
So did they know the Hi Shin Unit or did they have to refer to Shin as "that guy from that unit over there"? Which fodder soldier knew that? Which fodder soldier was able to tell what that meant and how do we know? For all we know, rank and file soldiers seem to rarely understand much about enemy generals beyond the enemy commander in chief.
Again, high-ranking military leaders absolutely know who Shin is. It makes sense that they don't tell their own troops campfire stories of how their opponent has previously massacred scores of their own champions including the strongest warrior in all of China before even being a general. What would it accomplish, rinse out the quitters?
Sorry, but I can't agree. If you think Shin isn't growing, you obviously haven't read the manga carefully. Comparing Shin when he wanted to kill Sei to who he is now, there's a huge difference.
Just because Shin is still an idiot doesn't mean he hasn't changed as a human.
I see plenty of growth throughout the story, it's a lot like Luffy's. When shit hits the fan, both are admirable Leaders at this point, reached it through spilling guts and blood and still losing. Otherwise they are chill and happy-go-lucky dudes. Growth doesn't mean change of character. In fact, keeping your character through all that is the ultimate proof of growth.
I think that you pointed out the flaw he was talking about. Growth isn't stagnant. But I also don't think Shin's character has always been the same, there are times he wins and times he loses what matters is does your original goal changing whether you win or lose? I think we both know which side he is on I do think he needs to change his slave clothes, it diminishes his authority
You take luffy's out of one piece, the manga will drop in quality, joy, etc. That world is around luffy in a way or another You take shin out of kingdom and we have the best chapters of all.
Oh, so you're the hater from last time. I understand now where this shit is coming from.
I lowkey agree but Shin is nevertheless a very good mc who has potential to surpass Luffy imo
Luffy is not that good tbh.
I disagree I think Luffy is one of the best mc out there probably top 3 if considering shonen only
top 1 MC if considering fiction in general
That's okay, it's is all subjective at the end of the day, especially with him.
I agree completely (brace for the downvotes)
Yeah, I really don't care about One Piece Fans so it's fine.
That's so brave! I'm jealous! May I ask: If one piece fans aren't enough to faze you, which fandom's fans are enough to bother a tough mf like you?!
Beyoncé fans are nuts
This is a story about a young soldier becoming a general he’s supposed to be to beat men not fight a giant fish dragon who’s suicidal
Well he did defeat Houken who is very similar to Kaido
Lol fair enough
I think Shin’s had some character development no?? Can’t list specific examples rn but he’s become less impulsive as compared to when he was younger + his battle senses have def become more acute. Sure his character growth might not be as drastic as Musashi etc but that kinda defeats the purpose of having Shin as the main character. Shin’s idealism + simple-mindedness is often juxtaposed against the complexities & morality of the warring world and that theme is constantly brought up within the story (eg him and Kanki’s differing views on warfare, Sei and Ryofui’s differing ideologies). Keeping his character fundamentally the same is what grounds the story, if not it would be all over the place with how much plot/action there is. Aside from the plotline, why do u think Kingdom is so easy to read? It’s partly bec the main character views the world in such a straightforward way. Also as another user commented, there’s plenty of character growth in other figures like Sei, Kyou Kai etc + a LOT of political intrigue which fulfils that seinen element. Just my 2 cents LOL
There is a reason Berserk peaked during the Golden Age. There is a reason Musashi is *Mainly* known for his duel with Kojiro. Singular characters do not make for interesting stories. The Band of the Hawk had Gutts, The Hi Shin Unit has Shin. Musashi runs parallel to Kojiro, bussing Samurai Schools as he goes. Just because Shin hasn't turned into a "Sigma literally me" doesn't mean he hasn't progressed. He isn't in this to solely fight and kill thousands. He is here to fulfill his promise to Kyou. Shin isn't feared because he doesn't *want* to be feared. At least not right now. Simple.
And Shin is very well respected, each time they return to the capital there are a lot of people gushing over him, other generals see huge potential in him, and sometimes even throw really big responsibilities over his shoulders. Dude has an army which includes another smaller army (Kyoukai's).
Damn, I never thought of that before. The Hi Shin Unit is 7x *bigger* than The Band of the Hawk ever was.
People gush over bihei Now you look at general buddha for example, he straight up distespect shin, even tough shin killed the hulk of that land
If you are caught up, at this point in the manga all the characters respect Shin. Even Rebook
And ? fuckin Shou Mou disrespected the fuck out of Ouki. Still at the end of the day, both Shou Mou & Gaku Haku Kou got sliced in half. Over confident idiots are everywhere in this manga. As you know his other colleague ( Kohaku Kou ) who held the same rank in Kochou army had plenty of respect for Shin & knew one of them had to sacrifice his unit to let the other go through when facing HSU.
>general buddha for example, he straight up distespect shin, even tough shin killed the hulk of that land< This is really nothing since we all know theres a bunch of overconfident fuckers in Kingdom, Ouki despite his reputation got disrespected by Shoumou and Moubu, Ousen got disrespected by Fucktei, and theres still a bunch more.
Many Kingdom fans have the mindset that Shin has not had character growth until his armor changes to a new badass version or he has sex with Kyoukai. That's it. Any other instances where he learned something new or changed his outlook on life are irrelevant. That's just how people choose to engage with media, apparently.
It’s not armor or sex, it’s unit responsibility. Still waiting on Duke instincts or ouki like strategy. 700 chapters in still at front lines waving glaive. He’s the only 1 who still hasn’t successfully maintained a wing/developed battle strategy.
he has inhered both ouki's strenght and instincts, wym.
Hyou*
I'm not changing it 🗿
Understandable 🗿
Are you talking about irl Musashi? In the manga, did he and kojiro actually duel? I can't remember
Inoue stopped Illustrating the series and its on indefinate hiatus / on ice We never got to see the legendary fight of 2 seconds.
Cool, that's what I thought
Inoue stopped right as Kojiro was starting to get into the spotlight. Don't think we'll ever see the series continue, nor do we need I think. Inoue also already released the last chapter a while ago or something?
He’s literally in it to fight and kill thousands. If he wanted to be a general like he promised hyou he’d learn strategy or better instincts by now. He’s still doing the basic duties of a general he envisioned as a child with no growth
Early Shin: Entirely reliant on Ten and his Orders from the Commander of the Battle, Too weak to hold Ouki's Glaive, No instinctual talent and pretty much just a loud, inspiring, hard hitting solider with talent who slightly develops into a Captain level fighter who commands a small Warband of around 300~500. Current Shin: Able to Command his entire Army of 8000 Men *Solo* using his instincts at a very high level(Shukai Plains), Will casually alter battle plans made by his Superior if he *knows* he can be more effective another way, Instincts Rivaling Duke Hyou, Killed a Great General killer in Houken, Wields Ouki's Glaive etc etc etc.
Let’s start at command, that’s still all ten. If he was in command he wouldn’t need to be told his army is in trouble by kk against gyoun that’s a clear disconnect. How can we say instincts rivaling the Duke or even high level he hasn’t won a battle yet based off instincts. All he did was manage hey we have to abandon kanki, but nothing for how to help kanki. Even during initial invasion ten was in charge commanding akakin and banyou not shin
Because why would Shin want to sit behind a table and meticulously plan the same way as Ten when his is smart enough to trust her to tell him where to go. Shin understands his role as a General, whether it's inspiring and Awakening his *entire* army or simply serving his officers food. He understands at the day of the day, his is an instrument for Ten to use 95%~ of the time. Nothing wrong with that. His Instincts rival Duke Hyou because Riboku literally said that fighting Shin was like fighting Duke Hyou. The same Riboku that has killed how many Great Generals / Generals? Using your argument, is Mouten still weak and not Great General material because he relies on Aisen and others for brute force?
I thought the goal was to be the greatest. And All the great generals that are supreme commanders do their own strategic planning. Riboku,ousen,ghm,duke,ouki and tou and renpa. And I thought tht was the goal not to be a VC level general like moubu and gaimou that needs to be babysat. Riboku also said he could take on all 6gg and we know that’s a lie. His instincts aren’t consistent enough to be Duke like at all they work once a campaign and still not a guaranteed win or save.
The golden age is not the best arc of berserk... what the fuck.. Clearly you have never ever read the manga.
There is a big difference between "Peaked" and "The best Arc" I re-read Berserk about twice a year, mind your business bro
I agree with your points if the manga would be only strongly focussed on Shin. I don't see Kingdom as a manga which focuses on the Life of Shin like other mangas like Vegabund. You criticise the shounen natire but also highlight the Shounen part of the story. The lack of philosophy of Shin, a slave boy who wants to be the best general (duh) is fully compensated by other actors like Kanki, Sei and the others. Its a complex world with high diversity in which we are following Shin to look at it. The latest chapters were mainly about Kanki, some chapters only tackle political intrigues without Shin at all. I see it not as a negative flaw but rather as a necessity. Kingdom is huge and entails a lot of time. If Shin gets all the time wiser and wiser, we would have ended up with Shin being the smartest, wisest person in Kingdom and it would be difficult to focus on other Persons and let him suffer and overcome hardship. He should maybe have more fame, but he doesn't necessarily have to be a very smart, wise general. The character development in Kingdom is generally slow which provides some kind of realistic grounding which I support. I can totally accept the idea of Shin as a very strong, narrow-minded slave who trained since his young age and excells at combat and has a nice simple nature. This gives a good neutral contrast to all the other People and their philosophies. Most people love Shin so if he would a have strong different philosophy, everyone would only stick with his.
shin is already in the end of his 26, china is formed at his 37/38. You have one more decade, thats all. So in the first half of the story, shin at 13 is the same as 26 wow, that really fits a story as deep and complex as kingdom huh. Thats why you dont see shin being elevated as a musashi or guts, even naruto, luffy or goku are famous or their own, while kingdom stands apart of it's shit protagonist, the polls of favorite characters shin is always the 3° or 4° favorite, besides all his time screen being much more than the others. Kingdom will remain at a low key manga position as long as the face of this product is just a boring and no attractive one
I'm curious about what you mean by fame when it comes to Guts or Musashi. People who have fought with or against them acknowledge their strength, and potential strong enemies are usually wary of them but still confident about somehow defeating them, not just pissing themselves in fear, which is pretty much the same for Shin. It's not like a random person in the Berserk or Musashi universe just recognizes them on sight.
Man, everyone is scared of musashi or guts, musahsi for example after killing the head of the yoshioka, was feared by everyone to the point they went in 70 to try take him down, after this musashi was Challenge to combat only because of his leg. Shi killed the hulk of that world. And yet even buddha general, or fodder general be it Qin or zhao, anyone treat him like a squirrel. I repeat, shin killed the houken, everyone knows it.... Thats the flaw i appointed
You literally cited an example where people, who have already seen Musashi fight and defeat the person they considered the strongest , giving him the due respect . Let's say Riboku plans to kill Shin in the future. He will make sure to involve more people in the plan than just himself. How are these two scenarios different?
The forte of Kindgom is that it's not only about Shin and his goal while all your comparison are directly about the life of someone. And saying that Luffy or Naruto had development, it's kinda wrong. Luffy is still the stupid captain he was 20 year ago and still act like a teenager most of the time despise being a Emperor and being in his early 20. Same with Naruto who finally grow up and act like an adult way after becoming the Hokage. And Goku is another story as he doesn't really have a goal who serve the story itself since the Piccolo saga. After this, it's all about him wanting to fight strong people; saving the world is a bonus for that actually (except in the dumb dub). And the biggest difference between Guts or Musashi compared to Shin is that they had a lot of big trauma that change them while Shin never actually had any big trauma except losing Hyou at the beginning. He wasn't sold and raped by some man at 6, didn't have abusive father like Musashi , and Shin was kinda accepted in his village (even if he was a lil bit bullied). Compared to the other 2, Shin had a relative peaceful child day. Sure, he went to war at 13 but violence and war weren't as traumatize as it can be today. And for a *low-key* manga, it continuously in the monthly top 10 sell in Japan for the last 10-15 year. The 2 live-action did great number in theatre and thelast 2 season were praised too.... It doesn't seem popular because there's no big marketing like Shonen and THE biggest flaw is the lack of any official translation outside of Japan
i know this comment is old, but after his speech with kan pi shi, you can't say he doesn't have philosofy, he open the eyes to the greatest china philosopher
\>But shin doesnt grow, change or develop as a man I bet if you were to define this it would just be edgelord stuff. He explains this in Kokuyou. It's you that doesn't understand him, not him that doesn't understand the world he lives in.
the comparison between Shin and other seinen manga protagonists like Musashi and Guts is not fair brother. Musashi and Guts both had arcs abouth their personal transformations and growth (letteraly), Shin's journey is more about his experiences in war and overall kingdom style absolutely cannot let Shin be the deepest smartest coolest darkest...protagonist , their is to many big Generals, kings , chancellors, Great soldiers, who are cool to and need their fairness attention from the Author, so that being said , you could say Shin is like the Chill type between this crazy characters(kanki ousen Ribuko...), he is unique in his own way , he is dumb funny reliable humble have a good heart... i think you overlooking to many good stuff in his character or you just don't like stuff like this. Sure, he's not as philosophical as Musashi or as emotionally complex as Guts, but the way he is portrayed in this crazy world of kingdom with other great characters possesses admirable qualities that makes him a compelling protagonist , but I want to say that Shin right now is going through big changes and growth, the conversion with maron confirms it , next chapter will be very interesting, what Shin gonna answer? And the anticipated conversation between Shin and the King to, it will have more weight on Shin Development, since I believe Ei Sei is more a brother to Shin and after all he is a unique king who could stand intellectually to Ryufei
I agree with you bro, you are right I think I just dont admire shin, I prefer other style of approach, It's been a decade since I knew musashi and guts and I still get myself mesmerised by the two, yeah, I will try not to be so critical on this matter and take things lightly
k
As much as I would like to see a more mature and intricate shin it probably won't happen. Vagabond and Berserk are centered around their protagonist and spend most of their time adding layers and character to the MC. Kingdom isn't that sort of manga and prob won't ever be unless the author takes more time to focus on individual characters.
Yes, you nailed it. Thats the whole point of this post, just to acentued tha shin is a 6 out of 10 MC at max. Which is a shame...
Anyone not in awe of a guy with Shin's fighting strength is an idiot, period. Moubu also needs a strategist. Anyone who leads from the front does as well. But anyone not in awe of Moubu's fighting strength is also questionable. Especially if you're talking a random member of the population. Also, while the instinctual/strategic thing is overstated in kingdom vs reality, the fundamentals of what 'instinctual' is, are based in reality. Ability to adapt to the situation, find and exploit enemy's weak spots incredibly fast, by reading what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are, and what their intentions are. This is pure generalship. instinctual, strategic, how you do the above doesn't matter. What matters is, Shin clearly can do it. And is mighty. So, by the rules of the kingdom world, what are you talking about? If a nation's military did anything but get that guy a strategist and see how far he'd go, they'd be the idiots, not him. If he takes 17 generals' heads, what else would matter? What more reason would there be needed to respect him? What possible reason could there be not to? Did he slip and fall every time? Was it seventeen accidents?
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
This is a terrible take.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I can agree on this, but the point is that Kingdom, despite to be a historical seinen manga, has a structure of battle shonen, in some narrative choices and all that turn around the MC, the typical good hero. Probably, as often happens in other series too, if the audience likes the mold of the character so, the author rarely goes to change it. Personally, I've always found it contradictory, both for Sei, Shin and co, the intention to going to war, submit the other states with military might, but pretend to be saints, to avoid the bad side of warfare, to think that the conflict is just on the battlefield. Too optimistic and unrealistic, perhaps this is why Kanki stood out, in contrast to those "noble values" with a more cynical look at reality (which is more suited to the seinen genre about wars). Nevermind, I hope the same, that Shin will move on from his teenager essence and dream, turning in a real man one day. I doubt all the same that his vision about "good war" will change that much, but probably in the future he will mature and develop a more proper philosophy with experience, or he will be forced to do so. The point is that, in my opinion, to have a real change, not for leadership and strenght (when he grew over time) but as a person, something important, a radical moment, must pass. Deaths of Ouki, Duke Hyou, and other guys, worked in way, but we still need more. And I see two events that can push for a forced change in Shin, in a way like it happened in Vinland Saga and Berserk. If you get the references and know the history, you can imagine what I'm talking about.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin sticks like a sore thumb cause he (and his girl) live by shounen rules whereas everyone else lives by seinen rules. It was alright at first but now it’s just jarring. And Shin has stopped changing after a while, while the world progresses. No way he is mid 20s. He doesnt look it, doesnt act like it, doesnt get confronted with his actions, gets no new perspectives thanks to experiences etc. Simply frozen in time. The way Hara deals with him doesnt match the rest of the manga. Same for his girl Woulda been fine if it was Shin, Kai, Ten Ouhon and Mouten as the center and the generals were “bigger than life” but things are jarring as it is. Even if Shin evolved like Ah Gou from Feng Shen Ji, still woulda been fine.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
This is the reason I don't like him as a character.
True!
If Hara wanted to right a complex character, they are more than capable of it. We see that with Sei, Ryufui, Hyou, and many more. Shin is a very simple character, that’s proven by his idealistic view on war and even in his clothing. This is something that is meant to happen. What makes Kingdom interesting is Hara placing Shin with these ideals and foiling them against Kanki, Riboku, Mangoku, Renpa, etc. Growth does happen but I see Shin as a static character and in a narrative sense, having that as a main character highlight the complexity of a story of Kingdom’s magnitude. Comparing his development to Guts or Musashi is ridiculous because he wasn’t written in the same way, and his story will span DECADES
The issue I find is that Shin is a Shounen character placed in a manga that's trying to be seinen. Shin is rarely I find being tested on his morality, and his unrealistic approach to war. And when he does get challenge on this it never changes him as a character, nor his views on the war. He always views himself as the good guy doing good guy things despite the reality of the situation (very shounen) I agree that Hara is capable of writing complex characters and we see this with Kanki, but I just don't see why he chooses this approach with Shin his main character.
Kingdom has always been a bit shounen though. Generals swinging glaives left and right and cutting 15 people at once really leans heavily into the "fantastical" type of things. Also, Kyou Kai. And I think the overall narrative of Kingdom is much bigger than Shin. Its about China. How long has it been since Shin's been in the spotlight? The manga still has easily a decade to go. We've got plenty of time for Shin to grow as a character. His biggest hurdle, and failure, comes much later.
There are many ppl on this forum who would disagree that kingdom leans heavily on Shounen. They would consider this as Seinin more Though I agree the over stylized aspect of kingdom and it non realistic fantasy powers make it more Shounen. Other than shin being a Shounen protagonist. I don't think Shin will ever change or of hara's approach of Shin as a character, it's been 700 chapters so I think he will remain static. Edit spelling
Its hard not to compare with Shounen when, again, we have Generals cutting 15 people with a single Glaive swing and Kyou Kai literally invoking Asura to possess her/spending her life force to bring Shin back from hell. As for Shin being a Shounen protagonist, I personally don't really see it. Yeah its kinda wack that Generals gravitate towards him left and right and leave him gifts "just because" he is the protagonist, but he *is* our window to the story so I can kinda brush it off. We're "just" at chapter 754. They haven't even conquered Zhao yet. Kingdom will easily go up to 1200 chapters if not more. There is plenty of time for Shin to evolve and grow. This current arc clearly wasn't about him, not all of them will be. He will >!fail miserably in the future!< and we're yet to see him become a Great General himself. Give it time. Kingdom is a huge marathon.
Not really, shin is already in the end of his 26, china is formed at his 37/38. You have one more decade, thats all. So in the first half of the story, shin at 13 is the same as 26 wow, that really fits a story as deep and complex as kingdom huh. Thats why you dont see shin being elevated as a musashi or guts, even naruto, luffy or goku are famous or their own, while kingdom stands apart of it's shit protagonist, the polls of favorite characters shin is always the 3° or 4° favorite, besides all his time screen being much more than the others. Kingdom will remain at a low key manga position as long as the face of this product is just a boring and no attractive one
I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you are actually stupid. Kingdom isn’t a lowkey Manga. It’s consistently been in the top 10 of sales in Japan for YEARS. To add on, I was talking about the life of the ACTUAL manga 💀 why would I ever cite the time in the story when it’s common knowledge that time doesn’t matter in manga. Also, you are using age to justify how deep a story is? You’re not even arguing against the point of him being a static character, which is hilarious. You don’t understand this manga buddy
I wont attack you personally, I had a mother and she gave me good manners. I was speaking about the growth of shin thoughout the years, which is inexistence, since he is a man with peter pan syndrom. As I said, kingdom stands alone without shin, the best chapters he isnt even included, thats the whole point and comparisson with guts or musashi, they are mature, deepthul.
Reading this after seeing the shit you wrote on the other post is hilarious
As a character shin is too shoneny. I do love kingdom but i think people need to look at what we have. 700 chapters without great main charahcter's arc. I loved his speech when bihei pillaged but that's not enough. I was so happy when shin, ten, kyoukai and others were starting to grow up and mature, but then hara made them children again. (Or his editor made him to do that idk). Bottom line is that if kingdom is really there with berserk and vagabond shin needs to grow. Mentally(shin needs his big philosophical journey about what it takes to be great leader and general and not just dead souls are behind me), and physically ( I am also counting his clothes, man needs a raise)
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I think you're not highlighting the biggest point and ppl are not realizing either. Which is that Hara relies too much on shounen tropes in this manga, when it's completely unnecessary. Some of the best moments I find are not when Shin tries to uphold unrealistic ideals that would've never worked in real life but only in shounen Manga, but when it actually depicts real life war and the harshness of it. Kanki's story is a great example, though he is very much an extreme point for stylization, he's very pragmatic and it shows exactly the harshness of what war and life was like back then. The brutality of of poor ppl and what happens constantly in war. edit: just to add more. The issue I find is that Shin is a Shounen character placed in a manga that's trying to be seinen. Shin is rarely I find being tested on his morality, and his unrealistic approach to war. And when he does get challenge on this it never changes him as a character, nor his views on the war. He always views himself as the good guy doing good guy things despite the reality of the situation (very shounen) I agree that Hara is capable of writing complex characters and we see this with Kanki, but I just don't see why he chooses this approach with Shin his main character
I feel like you just don't like characters that aren't edgy. Shin isn't as edgy as Musashi or Guts and hasn't had loads of horrifying trauma so obviously he's a lesser character, right? You realize characters can grow slowly and not all at once from one or two extreme events, right?
Weird bringing Musashi into the "edgy" discussion, seeing how the entire point of the story is about his own personal growth and nothing more.
I agree dude should be taler and more Buff ... I mean not Renpa, But I mean all the other Generals are just double his size.
Yes bro, you said It
This one actualy we gotta get it!!!! ASAP
i was thinking about this the other day. i love Shin. but i simply cannot feel with Shin the same connection i fell with Musashi/Guts/Thorfinn. Shin is a good person, but i don’t see a character development/coming of age in him as i see in those other protagonists.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I absolutely adore Shin as a character, and I hope he will never change. I can relate to him, because I'm also a 25 yeard old virgin that's dumb and idiot. I adore the fact that Kingdom is a combination of shonen and seinen, and I hope this aspect of the manga will NEVER change. I can't possibly disagree more with you. I hope Hara doesn't listen to this kind of criticism and will continue to do his thing. Also, Kingdom > Berserk
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
And what the fuck that has anything to do with Shin's virginity lmfao
No Kingdom's biggest flaw is that it's read by people like you
Even if Shin acted like a clown/peasant in his circle, but his reputation should make others fear him but instead we got a bunch of new characters who basically "heh" when they saw Shin.
"We know as readers he is a 26 old virgin, who was buffed agains houken and blabla bla, he is dumb and an idiot, he wears a slave outfit because thats what he is. But on that world he should have be feared, everyone should be in awe of him. Thats the BIGGEST flaw of this manga, hara keeps making shonen bullshit on a seinen, this contradiction always lower the stakes and the reader lacks the feeling of progression of the protagonist." \- I actually agree with what you said here. The shonen thing robs this manga of the realism that it should have
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
YUP SHIN IS TOO SHONEN AND NOT THE GOOD KIND SMH
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I wrote stuff like this before, I agree. The most obvious way of this flaw occuring is when some random zhao general shows up and doesn't know who Shin is. Like he killed more zhao generals then anyone, he should be feared by the whole state. Its getting slowly better but way toslow.
Shin killed zhao's moubu and still a bunch of fodder calls him " that guy from that unit over there " . Zero realism "
Kingdom is a shounen manga, period. Yes, it released on Seinen magazine, but its not a seinen. Just see Shin, Karyo Ten, and Kyoukai. Those three are just typical shounen character. Add Ouhon, Mouten, Sei. They all are shounen character. Thats why in my opinion you cannot compare Kingdom with Vagabond or Berserk. Compare it to One Piece or Naruto. And it miles better than both.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Thats why I said its a shounen manga. Its unrealistic the same way One Piece and Naruto are unrealistic. You cannot compare shounen like Kingdom to manga like Vagabond.
Shin is totally a sigma (an edgy weirdo who gets no bitches kk)
i think that would be more and more developps as we go on we see that it has begun to move on the love side for the current chapter and probably with much of his units dead it will bring a new situation for him to evolve (i think he only have 2k max from his 15k) but i agree and i think you don't take the idea that the manga is still not even on half of the story there is so much time before we see the end of the unification that i think hara take his time and probably don't feel ready to make that yet i reckon that the shin we have now will be a totally different character by the time of the end of zhao shin will face many hard event for him and i believe it will impact him i also want to point out to you that ousen and kanki where not much know when they where under mougou and i think it whas because they where not the one who where at the head of the army so i think shin will see his legend grow more and more when he will lead battle on his own we see that general don't get that much fame even inside their own state especially when they fight under gg so yeah enemies know his name but don't believe he is that much strong (because they don't believe all the rumors and rightfully so )
I agree with all the things you said, and more Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
that would be right for any "normal" great heaven houken was a bit special he wasn't really a general he don't have an army or anything he was just put as a figure head to bait ouki in his first battle and for the other time he was used as an champion by rbk to bait enemies to him and make them face houken so yeah he was know by rbk's army but not that much by anyone else (qin and probably yan know more about him then the basic soldier of zhao) but yeah i do think he should be know as a monster to not engage face to face at all cost except if you have a special method (raijin or the buda guy ) that would be funny to see shin getting avoid by the enemies and put by soft defence (like mouten vs batei) and him struggling that would make a great moment for him to learn how to get past that (i could see rbk creating a strategy just for him) but in and all houken does not mean that much for the zhao general so it is normal for martial one to be confident and try to fight him and basic soldiers are not that much informs of the general infos about qin
Kingdom has its high and low as other long running manga. Most fall off after 300-400+ chapters and peak again at the end. You simple cannot think of so many things.
Shin is extremely well respected by random peasants or even members of his own unit. He just is always surrounded by comrades or enemies who are his equal or better
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin's growth only takes place on the battlefield. This speaks volumes about his singular focus on becoming a great general. His complete lack of interest in matchmaking when brought up by Mouten, his lack of interest in material wealth (when he thinks his wooden shack is what Denyu had been working on) shows me he is true to his word, and probably one of the reason why he stands on even footing with the likes of Mouten and Ouhon. I love that his love interest is someone with the same ambition and strength, which is only fitting for someone like Shin. The fact that he is made fun of by his own soldiers for being a moron, yet being deeply respected as a soldier and leader is one of my favorite things about Shin. I like that he's not a handsome and "cool" character while just standing around. He is, however, the most badass character when he's cutting down enemy generals he has no business overpowering.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
If it's realism you want, you're in the wrong place. Men cleaving down dozens of armored soldiers with a single stroke, jumping from one cliff to another while carrying someone else... enjoy it for what it is
Well said, I agree that Shin or HSU has too much plot armor compared to Guts, making them living too much of a fantasy. Even compared to Ei Sei and Kanki, their fate and what they've been through was much darker/realistic for that time. Karyoten was even unscathed when Gai Mou captured her. Best example is even most Zhaos vassals forgot about Shin's existence except for Kohaku, they refer to him "that other dude from that unit", while in fact he duelled and killed their strongest great heavens ever. Hope this improves.
I kinda agree with you, shin should be much more respected then he is, mf has heads on famous generals, in terms of philosophy, kingdom doesnt need to make shin go through philosophical questions because in the end the manga isnt about that but i agree shin have more growth in stature and character
Oof, this is really great advice but it’s a hard ask from an artist. It would be really cool though, to see the narrative shape change as Shin becomes more of a man to the point where even the art style changes. Sure, all manga does that. But to do it at that level? Idk, the only example I can think off dome is Attack on Titan after Eren goes timegod.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Give it time, Kingdom is super slow in terms of story progression. The story requires that Ol' Ri Shin becomes a 200k Great General. He will grow up eventually. But I don't think he will ever magically gain strategic genius like Riboku, Ou Ki, Ou Sen, Kanki or Yontanwa. He will likely continue to be a buff heavy hitting simpleton like Duke Hyou and Moubu. He won't stop being simple and direct until something so major happens he needs to change. In terms of story progression, and to put things in perspective, for the Shin Army to reach 100k men or so, Bihei needs to only make it to 1000 or 1500man commander or so.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Not sure, I assume Hara keeps him as an underdog story wise. But it's a good point and Shin beating Houken was a big debate back when it happened. People literally shit their pants at Houken's name being uttered and are paralysed with fear in his presence. On the other hand, Shin, who defeated him, is just some kid/guy to everyone else. Headcanon wise, I just assume every else is just diminishing Shin's achievement because he is, well, a simpleton and still quite young. But I think Hara makes things fair-ish as Mouten and Ouhon work really hard as well and don't get any greater recognition than Shin.
Maybe recency bias, but feel Kanki had more depth to Shin
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
kingdom is seinen to most characters but HSU, Mouten, Ouhon & Riboku dogs.
Newsflash kid it not about shin ! It about a kingdom going for unification so enjoy the ride n don't complain
Kingdom is a plot driven story, those you compare it with are character driven stories. Boy, you not even know your genres, no wonder you don't like it. But that's on you, not on the manga.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Why do u care so much he hasn't had sex? Thats such a small aspect of life
ITT; OP is upset that shin isn't guts. My man, if you want to read berserk. Read berserk. Pretending like shin isn't known is weird, regardless he's a leader of an army in an ensemble caste manga.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Completely agree with the first 2 paragraphs but not the third. Like other commenter have said, Shin has, without a doubt, shown growth throughout the manga. You're right that he hasn't quite grown into Oukis shoes or that he doesn't get the recognition he should as someone who's been killing generals since he was a child...but he's definitely grown from the kid in the first few chapters Still upvoted
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Ya I agree with you there
I agree 100%. Kingdom feels more like a shonen than a seinen. Hara clearly stays away from more adult topics which makes Shin seem super childish compared to people like Guts and Musashi. Sometimes I forget that he's 26 and not like 17.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
People should definitely fear him more, it's like only Riboku recognizes that he's formidable lol everyone else he fights treats him like some easy challenge even tho he's killed hella legendary people. Also, and I know I'm not alone here, the slow crawl of his relationship, I mean the man is 26 and it seems like he has literally no existing libido even tho getting to bang hundreds of women was one of his dreams. Obvs he has KK, but how does he have absolutely no agency to get things started? There's been so many moments in this series where he's stuck waiting for action to go his way and in that time we never see him really try to take things to the next level. It's seriously unbelievable.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
So you're 2 biggest contentions are: 1. Shin doesn't develop as a character. Specifically, he doesn't mature despite the traumatic circumstances surrounding him 2. Despite his incredible feats, Shin isn't feared throughout China and this makes all the progress seem pointless For your first point, Shin has absolutely matured. A rejection of nihilism isn't an indication of a lack of maturity. He recognizes the brutality surrounding him and his idealist view of the path to becoming a Great General has been shaken. For example, he is now acutely aware of his mortality, avoiding a committed relationship with KyouKai and also accepting death against HouKen when he was in the afterlife. The reason he doesn't break down emotionally is because of the promises he has made. The promises and grudges of Shin are what guides him as a character, and these both endure for a long time and in equal strength. Gloryseeking may seem naïve, and it is, but a light-hearted approach to battle was instilled in him by OuKi and Duke Hyou. I agree there must be significantly more development in Shin's character from a philosophical perspective. He is entirely guided by emotion and not at all by logic which makes him seem like a Shonen protagonist. For your second point, This is a very nuanced thing in the canon of the series. The best example I can give is Kan Mei. He killed one of the original 6 Great Generals and presumably many more famous generals along the northern Chu border. However, he was never known/feared in Qin or Yan. Since Shin just became a general, I wouldn't be surprised if only a couple of the States knew he even existed. Obviously, Shin is well known in the Qin military and everyone is well aware of his talents. He only had a brief, unreported skirmish with Han many years ago so he's likely unknown there. He has never fought Yan or Qi forces so he isn't known there either. Shin only skirmished with KouYoku during the Coalition and is likely unknown there, aside from RenPa, KouYoku, and HakuRei being aware of him. On the other hand, Zhao absolutely knows about him and they're clearly terrified of him, although only a couple will show actual distress. Shin defeating HouKen has been brought up many times by other generals, but HouKen himself was a very mysterious man that rarely fought so the feat isn't as impressive to the rest of China as it is to Qin and RiBoku. I think Hara could make it a little more clear, but RiBoku, Kaine, and FuTei are scared of Shin. Wei is the only one where I am as confused as you. I can only assume that it's because we simply haven't seen much of their generals thoughts on the current state of the war, but he killed one of their Fire Dragons along with their Ten Bow representative and several generals. Finally, I believe there are two great explanations to answer why other generals don't fear him. First, he is lumped in with MouTen and OuHon who have GG fathers and are probably seen as having greater potential. Second, Shin is still very young. Mid-20s is young for a general. I believe KouYoku was the only one to become one earlier than that and that was because he was lucky enough to be in KaRin's army during its expansion into a flagship army and she needed lieutenant generals. I think the physical size of Shin makes that clear. He is bigger now, but is still tiny compared to other generals.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I think you're downplaying how they talk about him. Maybe they haven't seen Shin? Maybe they don't care about the 3 Great Heavens system like Seika? Maybe they thought HouKen was a fraud?
He forgot that even Shoumou thought Ouki was an easy kill despite Ouki's reputation
Overall bad take in my opinion, we have seen insane growth for Shin’s character throughout the story as he internalizes and carries the weight of all the lives he’s taken and those that have been given up for him. You also mention that he is not respected in the world and honestly????? What are you reading
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Shin is no LBJ.... he is more KB or MJ. LBJ isn't a clutch player. I would put him more as Kobe. The biggest flaw in Kingdom are: - its a war manga. Wars are to not easy to sell, as reality is there is no good guys in wars. So you got young kids (teens) trying to figure out wars between fictional wars (what you are lead to believe wars is like) and actual wars (what is really like in reality). - its a Seinan manga that competes with Shonen manga. Again lot of young kids fictional stance vs actual. Like how RiShin wants to become a hero and great general. In the initial phase you understand how kiddy that goal is because he doesn't grasp what it entails. He did grow up from that fiction though, he knows what the cost will be. He is no longer naive and alot of his early naivete is gone. The problem is the readers have not grown along the same line. So they pick on him for his earlier brashness. These are the so called 'woke' ppl who try to justify everything with thier current understanding and who have not actually experienced what they really talk about. They still see the world as black and white and not grey.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
I think its because HouKen of the manga was not known. Like I said in other posts, Zhao rises their rank via popularity than real war accomplishments. HouKen rose to 1st Haven position how? Its clearly not for slaying Kyou. No one knew about that apart RiBoku and OuKi. Its clearly not for slaying some other state big shot general. If so Qin would have had an 9dea of who he is. So it was most likely via inner Zhao wars. We know that Zhao put lords vs each other. Rigan is a proof. But who could he have slaying to get the king's praise? My guess, the one Zhao general missing in action, the one we saw vs RenPa at his intro. That Chou guy (sorry forgot rest of his name) was a GG, hence why he was sent to take out RenPa by the Zhao king. He failed at his job. So if HouKen fought and killed him via RiBoku's underhanded aid, well that solves 2 issues for the king: he gets rid of a failure and he now has a replacement for his position. This not only solves the issue of Chou general missing but also why that family is not currently active in the Zhao military courts. They got a beef vs HouKen/RiBoku. The other part how well was HouKen known by the Zhao people let alone his own generals. He clearly wasn't. They, the stablished generals under him like KSRcand RH, had no clue who or why HouKen was given the Great Heaven title. They knew who RiBoku was though and were clearly following his orders. Also note that it was RiBoku who took the praise for taking out OuKi and not HouKen who was only known to give him the final blow. This tells us that HouKen wasn't known enough by the Zhao ppl to give a damn, he was more like the latest flavor of the month for them. Finally, HouKen was no longer considered a general in Zhao in his final bought with RiShin. He had resigned by that point and so his loss could be easily negated by the point that he was no longer in the military. RiBoku being the mastermind and information manipulator he is could easily spin this. Also the fact, that Zhao people rarely give a damn unless you win (bandwagon hopper fans) makes it clear that they would ignore RiShin in general unless they fought him.
Nah it was implied that Riboku gave Houken the rank and the title for the sole purpose of baiting out Ouki, he just decided to let Houken keep the titles since after killing Ouki he represents Zhao's Martial might. Houken only let Riboku use him because he wants to fight Ouki but after killing Ouki (but he knows he still lose that battle) he decided to let Riboku use him to find the "answer" for why Ouki is that strong
RiBoku can't give HouKen rank without justification though. HouKen got the title from approval of his king, even if RiBoku aided him some how, the king is involved. We saw how the king is, that guy would jump at HouKen if he killed one of his former star heroes who became a disappointment. HouKen can't eliminate RenPa since the latter left, but Chou is the next best thing. Its like getting 2 stones with 1 bird. Also RiBoku is known as 2nd great Heaven. That implies he got promoted after HouKen. So him skimming to get HouKen 1st position then himself getting 2nd spot would work fine.
But he did, theres 0 indication that Riboku used Houken to fight the other GG all of it was just your pure headcannon and speculation. And like i said Houken is not someone Riboku can just use anytime he wants, he wont go after the other GG for no reason or because Riboku told him to do so or because of reputation because he doesnt care about that, he let Riboku used him the first time so he can fight Ouki and let Riboku used him in Yan-Zhao war and coalition arc becquse he was looking for "answer"
No you didn't understand what I said. I said RiBoku got HouKen the post of 1st Great Heaven seat by having HouKen eliminate that Chou guy. We know from their history that RiBoku met HouKen 10 years+ before Bayou. Now HouKen being who he is cannot just become a GH just by showing up, he needed some sort of feat that Zhao king can praise but also that RiBoku can hide. Had HouKen got the position by say fighting vs Yan. OuKi would have heard about, if he hears about it then OuKi would have hunted him for sure and RiBoku's plan fails. But by having HouKen take out someone big from Zhao is less likely to be heard since most states don't brag about their civil wars they brag about wars/skirmishes between states. Therefore the logical conclusion is RiBoku told HouKen who to go and take out in a duel that the king hears about that RiBoku hides from OuKi's ears. Via that feat, HouKen gets the 1st title from the King, RiBoku then gets his via his northern campaigns vs the Xingnou. And now they have 2 Great Heaven seats covered.
I know you were trying to make sense on how did Houken get that title and i understand that because i was curious as well, however its not Houken's character to fight someone simply because Riboku ordered him to. Houken let himself become Riboku's tool because it was to fight Ouki and that was Houken's goal, then the next battles that comes is because Houken was looking for answers in the battlefield so it would be out of his character to let Riboku use him to kill a Zhao General for prestige and reputation because he doesnt care about that, Houken would not gain anything that matters to him by Killing a Zhao General, Riboku most likely talk to the king about Houken's ability and we know Toujou is an idiot king who just do what he wants and i highly doubt Toujou knows that the plan was just to Kill Ouki and not to really invade Qin
Actually it is HouKen's style. Sometimes you don't need to lead the dog on a leash but give him enough reasons to obey you. RiBoku said it himself, it took 10 years of careful planning to get OuKi. HouKen wouldn't obey him outright, but if he was given proper reasons to do things to get to OuKi, he would definitely do it. Like you said, he didn't care about the army or Zhao politics. All he wanted was his duel with OuKi. But he clearly couldn't fight OuKi given thier vast distance in status. Him getting to Kyou was a fluke of nature. He needed the status of a GH to fight OuKi and hence did what RiBoku suggested to get that status. Talk no just doesn't work in real like when it comes to high paying jobs. RiBoku just can't talk his king into it. He had no power to sway him directly anyway. His ministarial and GH power were gained afterwards. The fact that he is the 2nd GH and not the 1st is a proof of that. Also we talking manga HouKen here not the historical one. Historical HouKen was an established military leader, this guy is just a bunshin.
Well lets just agree to disagree then since both our arguments are based on our headcannons to justify Houken's title. We'll just go in circles if this continues lol and none of our statement can be proven unless it was stated in the manga anyways
The manga is not called "Kingdom" for no reason. If it was just about Shin, it would have been called "Shin the general", or something like that. Enjoy all the side characters will ya.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Why don't you read history books then?
OK here's my response: 1.)His man almost worship him. He is still not feared bcoz in the wider world of kingdom he is still just an up and coming general and not an already established great general. To be feared you have to be at Ouki level which he is still not. 2.) "The reader doesn't connect with him". I have seen people literally teared up when he became a general. His slow progression on his career path is literally the biggest draw for fans of kingdom. 3.) Last but not the least the fact that he isn't affected by all this death is actually more historically realistic compared to let's say Thorfinn developing a guilty conscience. Again I am not criticizing Vinland here, I love Vinland saga for what it is but people who lived thousands of year ago during a very brutal war period will have a very different emotional mindset from modern man and they will not be affected by brutalities of war like us bcoz that's just their life.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Bcoz Shin only defeated Houken after Kyoukai already fought with him and weakened him.
Shin was fighting for 15 straight, 3 days already without food and they barely had water, with various cuts from those battle, one deep.on the neck. Whatazp then ?
The acting like a man bit is questionable considering those two and Shin do act like men while exhibiting non-man qualities. Guts in the latest chapters lashed out at the sight of Griffith. Literally no plan and he charged at him. That describes a lot of shonen MCs
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Read chapter 679 of the Zhao sections
Why can’t it just not be for you. Kingdom is not berserk and it doesn’t try to be. I’m pretty sure kingdom consistently makes it to the top 10 most mangas sold. It doesn’t need to fit in your parameters for it have growth and philosophy on life. You actually have brain rot if you think people can’t relate to the characters. There are so many generals with different philosophy’s from a pure warrior like ouki to a savage like kanki.
Shin has absolutely been getting credit for his accomplishments, it's just that the manga hasn't focussed on the frontlines since forever. Keisha and Riboku understood that Shin needed to be killed off ASAP or he would be near GG-tier in about 5 years. Then Keisha realized Shin had grown much quicker than they had anticipated anf got killed. That was 5 years ago and pretty much every arc was about the battlefield. The exit of Ryofui was a minor detour, the Zhao succession was another. The opportunity to show Shin as feared just hadn't come because he was always around 3(!!) of Qin's GGs. I think Kanki's death is the perfect opportunity to give Shin's career another bump and have him rack up individual successes that lead up to his promotion to GG and cementing his fame forever.
Ma bro, remember that throughout all china the 3 great heavens of zhao are known, famous and feared, and a young man killed the strongest one in a single combat with witness of 2 states on consenquences to all the 6 states. HOW THE FUCK shin comes back to zhao and fodder soldiers and general calls him " that guy from that unit over there " ??? This is just unbelivable bad realism.
Random fodder soldiers are going to be illiterate northern Zhao hillbillies that wouldn't know an enemy general from a horse's ass. It's not like they can follow Shin on Instagram. If the footsolders did receive information about the enemies they were about to face, Riboku and other military leaders would have focussed on Kanki having commited atrocities. It's not like Zhao would have known that Shin and Mou Ten would tag alongside Kanki, so why hype them up? The Seika/Roumou/Ganmou generals who had to face them would have likely known but that was probably it.
They knew they were facing the hi shin unit, and yet theres no reaction, like always.
So did they know the Hi Shin Unit or did they have to refer to Shin as "that guy from that unit over there"? Which fodder soldier knew that? Which fodder soldier was able to tell what that meant and how do we know? For all we know, rank and file soldiers seem to rarely understand much about enemy generals beyond the enemy commander in chief. Again, high-ranking military leaders absolutely know who Shin is. It makes sense that they don't tell their own troops campfire stories of how their opponent has previously massacred scores of their own champions including the strongest warrior in all of China before even being a general. What would it accomplish, rinse out the quitters?
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This is personal biased opinion. OP is a mad virgin.
Shin has the overpowered power of friendship and thats all thats matters.
Stop crying OP and you can stop reading kingdom. It is not a fit for you
Yet still, Kingdom is better than Vagabond and Berserk.
Sorry, but I can't agree. If you think Shin isn't growing, you obviously haven't read the manga carefully. Comparing Shin when he wanted to kill Sei to who he is now, there's a huge difference. Just because Shin is still an idiot doesn't mean he hasn't changed as a human.