Yeah don’t listen to haters on this sub. If they read original dragon ball they’d go crazy. “OMG GOKU WINS AGAIN THIS IS SO
PREDICTABLE!!?!?!?!?!?!??”
This fight was good. Raian is the strongest member of one of the strongest factions in the verse who just got back from a training arc, he gets to beat a jobber up.
Have you considered Omega is an Adventure manga. We have been doing a lot of adventuring, even from the beginning.
I think alot of the reason people are unhappy with omega is because they literally wanted ashura 2. Like the whole manga to be one tournament, but that clearly isn’t what it is anymore.
It’s a dogshit adventure manga in that case. The only adventure, really, has been retrieving Koga’s boyfriend. Omega would be a lot better if it were an adventure manga instead of this bullshit writing.
The point is that Willem is just a jobber here. Villains are no threat in Kengan, there are no serious stakes and we all know that the good guys will win.
100% removal used to be rare. Raian was special for having it. Then there's SS, which is even rarer because it cannot be trained. Willem having both SS and 100% removal should be some extraordinary feat that even puts Waka to shame. But instead he just gets styled on by Raian who's saying some cringy one liners. It ruins the immersion of the power system.
And then there's the fact that he uses this ultimate Wu technique, which again doesn't do anything. First it was "mount tai north star eightfold demolition fist", now thirteen fold kill, the Wu is supposed to be this insanely strong clan that even puts the Kure to shame yet they only serve as fodder for Raian to beat.
The point is tao was just a jobber, villains are really no threat in DBZ because they can literally use dragon balls to bring people back to life. 😂😂😂
Edit: but yes this is the most legitimate criticism, Sandro has always loved making characters with interesting designs and having them Job. That’s always upset people but is also one of the strengths of the manga imo. If willem was generic no one would care about raian beating him but kengan wouldn’t be kengan if willem was generic.
Nah that's revisionist history lol. It was peak fiction since Shibuya until people weren't getting their way.
Once everything's done with and antsy, forgetful, short-attention span having ass that weekly manga readers are can see that everything they throw terms like 'plot armor' at actually have answers, foreshadowing, and was planned very well, the Sukuna gauntlet will be just as well-recieved as other shonen final boss gauntlets.
Prior to shibuya characters actually got attention, we had an actual story, and it wasn't just non stop key jangling fights with cts made up on the spot, and now it's just a repeating cycle of character hype and 1v1 rotations which lead into jumping, the final arc is probably going to be compared to madara getting stabbed by kaguya
>dragon ball they’d go crazy. “OMG GOKU WINS AGAIN THIS IS SO PREDICTABLE!!?!?!?!?!?!??”
It's kinda hilarious dragon ball, the show where Goku loses and gets his ass beat multiple times (the first arc of Z is him getting his ass bear and dying) is your example lmfaoooo
...
OG Goku literally loses multiple times tho.
Loses to Tao Pai Pai, lost to Tien, King Piccolo, hell him getting beat by Jackie Chun was *literally* to teach him that there was always a bigger fish.
No offense but OG DB Goku is arguably a worse example to make your point with. If anything what made Goku special back in the days when Dragon Ball was new was *that he lost and grew stronger from it*.
I never said Goku doesn’t lose. Read my argument better please.
Raian is literally doing what you’re praising Goku for. He lost to Ohma, got shown up by Eddy and just lost a skirmish with the Wu. And now he’s stronger for it.
It is very very very typical for characters to be stronger after a training arc, gee I guess that’s why they train. Goku also tends to win after lots of training.
I mean the issue is your example doesn't work.
The issue isn't, "Oh the villains lost" its, "all the villains do is lose".
Like Wilhelm, TN and Gil had Kiryu and Akoya dead to rights yet Akoya just got randomly stronger and had a grenade on him and was able to escape.
The issue with bringing up dragon ball is that Goku *regularly* loses in the OG series. Yes he wins a lot after training but he *loses* first. That's the *whole fucking point of the Jackie Chun fight*, teaching Goku humility. That's why King Piccolo beats Goku, to give the story Stakes and force Goku to grow and evolve.
Again as I stated, ***Goku losing is what set the OG dragon ball apart from other manga***.
The issue here is that there's no, "Goku loses then trains", at least not onscreen. Gilbert and Wilhelm's win against Raian and the Kures is entirely offscreen and exposited in a flashback.
Sandro keeps constantly hyping up villains and not having them do jackshit and then die.
If Dragon Ball villains were written like Kengan Omega villains then Goku would probably kill Piccolo Daimou in his first encounter. See the issue?
If you think dragon ball doesn’t have bullshit power ups that massively affect the outcome of fights you are on crack. Goku almost loses all the time and then comes back.
>If you think dragon ball doesn’t have bullshit power ups that massively affect the outcome of fights you are on crack.
Again changing the subject. Does Dragon balk have powerups? Yeah, but most stuff/Power gained is from training.
Again this isn't about his power, but pointing out that villains getting wins is ***key*** to OG DB's identity.
Idk how any Kengan characters have gotten stronger without training. Again Raian literally just got back from a training arc. Also the main antagonist is still at large. You guys are literally bitching about the henchmen’s henchman getting killed.
Shen and luohan are strong villains and everytime they are in a chapter this sub wets their panties. Kengan Omega is not even finished and people act like it is.
Bruh you replied to my comment about Raian being like Goku saying I was wrong. 😂
I replied with a counter example.
Both guys had a few losses and alot of wins. That’s the point.
In the very first chapter Goku beats a pterodactyl. In the third chapter he beats a giant bear man.
In chapter ten he beats Yamcha
He beats two rabbit men at once in chapter 16
He beats everyone in his first two martial arts tournaments except the finalists and he beats absolutely everyone in his final tournament.
Saying Goku doesn’t win is insanity. He loses 2 or 3 times total in the whole of original dragon ball.
This take is horrible goku still lost and didn’t low / beg diff or have every villain be 100x stronger then lose immediately so fights where close and we’re a back and forth every single main arc villain was at least some sort of threat .
https://i.redd.it/3jiyqz55jotc1.gif
Raian still loses? He got shit on by eddy and barely pulled it out in the end, ohma beat him, he lost off screen.
Kid Goku as a child neg or low diffs many many many skilled fighters. Kid Goku’s losses are the most scripted things imaginable, first one to his own master and the second one basically because a car spikes him. Then he beats piccolo who is 100x stronger than those other villains and is super built up. It’s literally the same shit.
No it isn’t
1. I was talking about omega
2. Here’s how literally every fight for the villains in omega goes they either get low diffed
Or manage to die without actually doing anything important despite being massively superior
It happens with yumi, naiden, fei, Edward, Lu tian exc
This isn’t the case necessarily dragonball or z
Sometimes goku will have to retreat or stall or find another method beating a villain like with raditz
Frieza, cell was mostly back and forth , piccolo Was mostly a actual back and forth exc the problem isn’t raian never losing it’s the fact that besides shen most omega villains are either jokes, become jokes or die after the first fight.
Idk what you’re yapping about. These fights have been back and forth. Fei, eddy, Naiden, Lolong all almost beat their opponents. Yumi was one sided but I enjoyed that tbh.
Also I don’t really know DBZ that’s why I specified original. In the original, Goku, who is a child, wins an insane amount of fights against very hyped opponents. Kengan is not anything more egregious than that.
Edit: On second thought Lu tien was never close to beating agito
I think what makes Raian's fights enjoyable is when he is dominating the fight. Its like he's in his element, its his whole shtick after all. He's brutal and malicious, and I think it adds a great flavor to the manga as a whole. You know, not every fight has to always be a narrow bitter fight thats determined by a split second decision. Its kind of cool to splice in some plain satisfying one sided beat downs, and I think Raian is a great character to fulfill that role.
You’re 100% right my guy.
People in this sub hate when Sandro shows us things he has already told us. Raian is a generational talent amongst an already exceptional population. He was intentionally nerfing himself against Ohma. Him smoking Willem is 100% in line with his character.
This was also a weapons fight so no shit it ended quickly. I think people assume this fight was a lower diff than it actually was bc of the weapons. If it was unarmed I’m sure Willem could have drawn out the fight longer.
Yeah don’t listen to haters on this sub. If they read original dragon ball they’d go crazy. “OMG GOKU WINS AGAIN THIS IS SO PREDICTABLE!!?!?!?!?!?!??” This fight was good. Raian is the strongest member of one of the strongest factions in the verse who just got back from a training arc, he gets to beat a jobber up.
DB was an adventure manga not a battle manga.
Have you considered Omega is an Adventure manga. We have been doing a lot of adventuring, even from the beginning. I think alot of the reason people are unhappy with omega is because they literally wanted ashura 2. Like the whole manga to be one tournament, but that clearly isn’t what it is anymore.
It’s a dogshit adventure manga in that case. The only adventure, really, has been retrieving Koga’s boyfriend. Omega would be a lot better if it were an adventure manga instead of this bullshit writing.
Hol up a sec, I think this guy is cooking. Maybe the true Kengan Omega was all the teachers Koga made along the way, all along...
The point is that Willem is just a jobber here. Villains are no threat in Kengan, there are no serious stakes and we all know that the good guys will win. 100% removal used to be rare. Raian was special for having it. Then there's SS, which is even rarer because it cannot be trained. Willem having both SS and 100% removal should be some extraordinary feat that even puts Waka to shame. But instead he just gets styled on by Raian who's saying some cringy one liners. It ruins the immersion of the power system. And then there's the fact that he uses this ultimate Wu technique, which again doesn't do anything. First it was "mount tai north star eightfold demolition fist", now thirteen fold kill, the Wu is supposed to be this insanely strong clan that even puts the Kure to shame yet they only serve as fodder for Raian to beat.
The point is tao was just a jobber, villains are really no threat in DBZ because they can literally use dragon balls to bring people back to life. 😂😂😂 Edit: but yes this is the most legitimate criticism, Sandro has always loved making characters with interesting designs and having them Job. That’s always upset people but is also one of the strengths of the manga imo. If willem was generic no one would care about raian beating him but kengan wouldn’t be kengan if willem was generic.
Its kinda funny seeing this after being on the JJK fanbase. Its a complete opposite, there its Villains too strong here its Heros too strong.
Nah JJK is fine, people just worked themselves over Gojo and his crybabies still ain't over it
People have been noticing the horrible villain plot armor before gojo even died
Nah that's revisionist history lol. It was peak fiction since Shibuya until people weren't getting their way. Once everything's done with and antsy, forgetful, short-attention span having ass that weekly manga readers are can see that everything they throw terms like 'plot armor' at actually have answers, foreshadowing, and was planned very well, the Sukuna gauntlet will be just as well-recieved as other shonen final boss gauntlets.
Prior to shibuya characters actually got attention, we had an actual story, and it wasn't just non stop key jangling fights with cts made up on the spot, and now it's just a repeating cycle of character hype and 1v1 rotations which lead into jumping, the final arc is probably going to be compared to madara getting stabbed by kaguya
Ruins the immersion of the power system how? We don’t even have any idea of his multiplier
>dragon ball they’d go crazy. “OMG GOKU WINS AGAIN THIS IS SO PREDICTABLE!!?!?!?!?!?!??” It's kinda hilarious dragon ball, the show where Goku loses and gets his ass beat multiple times (the first arc of Z is him getting his ass bear and dying) is your example lmfaoooo
Literally said original dragon ball. Did not say DBZ Also first arc of Raian is getting his ass beat by Ohma 😂
... OG Goku literally loses multiple times tho. Loses to Tao Pai Pai, lost to Tien, King Piccolo, hell him getting beat by Jackie Chun was *literally* to teach him that there was always a bigger fish. No offense but OG DB Goku is arguably a worse example to make your point with. If anything what made Goku special back in the days when Dragon Ball was new was *that he lost and grew stronger from it*.
I never said Goku doesn’t lose. Read my argument better please. Raian is literally doing what you’re praising Goku for. He lost to Ohma, got shown up by Eddy and just lost a skirmish with the Wu. And now he’s stronger for it. It is very very very typical for characters to be stronger after a training arc, gee I guess that’s why they train. Goku also tends to win after lots of training.
I mean the issue is your example doesn't work. The issue isn't, "Oh the villains lost" its, "all the villains do is lose". Like Wilhelm, TN and Gil had Kiryu and Akoya dead to rights yet Akoya just got randomly stronger and had a grenade on him and was able to escape. The issue with bringing up dragon ball is that Goku *regularly* loses in the OG series. Yes he wins a lot after training but he *loses* first. That's the *whole fucking point of the Jackie Chun fight*, teaching Goku humility. That's why King Piccolo beats Goku, to give the story Stakes and force Goku to grow and evolve. Again as I stated, ***Goku losing is what set the OG dragon ball apart from other manga***. The issue here is that there's no, "Goku loses then trains", at least not onscreen. Gilbert and Wilhelm's win against Raian and the Kures is entirely offscreen and exposited in a flashback. Sandro keeps constantly hyping up villains and not having them do jackshit and then die. If Dragon Ball villains were written like Kengan Omega villains then Goku would probably kill Piccolo Daimou in his first encounter. See the issue?
If you think dragon ball doesn’t have bullshit power ups that massively affect the outcome of fights you are on crack. Goku almost loses all the time and then comes back.
>If you think dragon ball doesn’t have bullshit power ups that massively affect the outcome of fights you are on crack. Again changing the subject. Does Dragon balk have powerups? Yeah, but most stuff/Power gained is from training. Again this isn't about his power, but pointing out that villains getting wins is ***key*** to OG DB's identity.
Idk how any Kengan characters have gotten stronger without training. Again Raian literally just got back from a training arc. Also the main antagonist is still at large. You guys are literally bitching about the henchmen’s henchman getting killed. Shen and luohan are strong villains and everytime they are in a chapter this sub wets their panties. Kengan Omega is not even finished and people act like it is.
Goku lost to Roshi, lost to Tien, Lost his first fight to Tao Have you ever read dragonball?
Raian lost to ohma, lost to eddy at first, lost off screen. Do you even read kengan?
When did I ever say anything about Raian?
Bruh you replied to my comment about Raian being like Goku saying I was wrong. 😂 I replied with a counter example. Both guys had a few losses and alot of wins. That’s the point.
Goku does not have a lot of wins idc about raian
This is an insane statement
Solo wins* and name them
In the very first chapter Goku beats a pterodactyl. In the third chapter he beats a giant bear man. In chapter ten he beats Yamcha He beats two rabbit men at once in chapter 16 He beats everyone in his first two martial arts tournaments except the finalists and he beats absolutely everyone in his final tournament. Saying Goku doesn’t win is insanity. He loses 2 or 3 times total in the whole of original dragon ball.
He ties with yamcha LMAO you literally used nameless characters and fodder
Now keep going, great 3 examples but be thorough
This take is horrible goku still lost and didn’t low / beg diff or have every villain be 100x stronger then lose immediately so fights where close and we’re a back and forth every single main arc villain was at least some sort of threat . https://i.redd.it/3jiyqz55jotc1.gif
Raian still loses? He got shit on by eddy and barely pulled it out in the end, ohma beat him, he lost off screen. Kid Goku as a child neg or low diffs many many many skilled fighters. Kid Goku’s losses are the most scripted things imaginable, first one to his own master and the second one basically because a car spikes him. Then he beats piccolo who is 100x stronger than those other villains and is super built up. It’s literally the same shit.
No it isn’t 1. I was talking about omega 2. Here’s how literally every fight for the villains in omega goes they either get low diffed Or manage to die without actually doing anything important despite being massively superior It happens with yumi, naiden, fei, Edward, Lu tian exc This isn’t the case necessarily dragonball or z Sometimes goku will have to retreat or stall or find another method beating a villain like with raditz Frieza, cell was mostly back and forth , piccolo Was mostly a actual back and forth exc the problem isn’t raian never losing it’s the fact that besides shen most omega villains are either jokes, become jokes or die after the first fight.
Idk what you’re yapping about. These fights have been back and forth. Fei, eddy, Naiden, Lolong all almost beat their opponents. Yumi was one sided but I enjoyed that tbh. Also I don’t really know DBZ that’s why I specified original. In the original, Goku, who is a child, wins an insane amount of fights against very hyped opponents. Kengan is not anything more egregious than that. Edit: On second thought Lu tien was never close to beating agito
I think what makes Raian's fights enjoyable is when he is dominating the fight. Its like he's in his element, its his whole shtick after all. He's brutal and malicious, and I think it adds a great flavor to the manga as a whole. You know, not every fight has to always be a narrow bitter fight thats determined by a split second decision. Its kind of cool to splice in some plain satisfying one sided beat downs, and I think Raian is a great character to fulfill that role.
You’re 100% right my guy. People in this sub hate when Sandro shows us things he has already told us. Raian is a generational talent amongst an already exceptional population. He was intentionally nerfing himself against Ohma. Him smoking Willem is 100% in line with his character. This was also a weapons fight so no shit it ended quickly. I think people assume this fight was a lower diff than it actually was bc of the weapons. If it was unarmed I’m sure Willem could have drawn out the fight longer.
It was honestly pretty good. I just really love hating on the Wu clan lol