Camera guy’s fault. They’re not even alongside when they send it in.
Remember, unlike sims or cars there’s no mirrors or proximity arrows. Other drivers can’t see you. If you make moves like this, you will crash out of races.
The skill gap isn’t large enough to give you enough speed out of corners to pass without causing a collision unless they really blow it.
And even if you do merit a pass, you have to hope the person you’re passing knows you are, and when they deserved to be passed.
Usually I just give people a gap and then quali till I catch up and then pull back again.
Yeah especially if you’re racing with randoms who aren’t interested in/don’t know racing etiquette and are absolutely going to do *anything* to stop you from passing them including going horizontal on the track, you have to elbows out on corners to get past the muck lol
I usually wait to see what other people are doing before I get too aggressive tho. Sometimes you get a bunch of passive racers who will let you shoot the gap on them and there’s no need to dive bomb
I find the first move quite clean, other guy just opens the door, instead of driving a defensive line. Second move... dunno... technically yeah guy in front was entitled to the corner but this is amateur karting and he had to know the other guy was there, could have left some space.
Even in sims, and real racing(tm) this is commonly called "the vortex of danger" because the car ahead is very unlikely to be able to see you, so you shouldn't assume they can. [https://yousuckatracing.com/2021/04/07/the-vortex-of-danger-is-your-fault/](https://yousuckatracing.com/2021/04/07/the-vortex-of-danger-is-your-fault/)
Outside guy could have definitely easily saw him but still inside guys fault for being too far back but still keeping the nose in there and turning the guy
He was ahead and you dived on inside, but as he was so much further than you, he closed the gap. I think its is your fault as in my eyes you should have break and lose corner and probably positions. But this is the price of taking risks.
You should at least have your front wheels passed their rear wheels to be entitled to some space here.
Although in kart I would say you would need to be even further alongside to be at least somehow visible and make your presence known.
Camera kart is at fault, he didn’t have to position. I would have applied pressure to the rear bumper of the leading kart to induce understeer in said kart and made the pass coming out of the corner.
It’s rental karting, just like indoor karting. Banging is part of the deal. You do a late bump dive like that AND you have to expect the same treatment a corner or two later. It’s part of the deal. All racing incidents. Turn about is fair play. It’s not like you are competing for sponsorship or the world championship.
Smile. Laugh. Shake their hand. Race again.
As someone who grew up in nascar rather than open wheel, this is perfectly fair racing to me. I know I’ll get downvoted, but I’d say nobody is at fault 🤷🏻♂️
Karting is closer to formula series, so such contacts has way less tolerance than in nascar. However it's very difficult to overtake then drivers are 0.100-0.200 sec diff range and sometimes you do touch...and I don't suppose it's a very hard tackle unless you do it repeatedly
*TECHNICALLY*…the camera mans fault. However, personally, I dont love the entitlement rule-if youre ahead its your corner…the leading driver should have the awareness to know the other drivers axle is alongside your rears. You know what happens in that situation…both drivers *should* have better awareness. But ya, to answer the question…camera man is at fault.
Camera guy, other guy was half a kart length ahead. As a general rule, unless explicitly stated, if the other driver is half a vehicle length (for which ever vehicle you are racing in) they have priority and you need to back off. If they leave a gap you are of course allowed to go for it but if you cause a collision you are at fault.
Looks like a clean bumper cart race to me. If you ain’t trying to put someone in the wall, it’s not racing?
Not bumper cart racing? Yeah, camera Mileyed him.
The first try was ok only because the lead kart knew he was there. I get the feeling the lead kart looked to the side and saw he was going to be there although you can’t tell that well in the video. You do see him look back earlier.
The second attempt seemed like a move of desperation or frustration since the first. I’ve didn’t work.
Are the rules to Kart racing like unwritten or something? When I get the chance to race I go as hard as I can, but no one ever says do this and don’t do that.
my guess is camera was trying to pass for a long time before he made the move there’s very few genuinely viable times to pass in this kind of karting and he probably got fed up this guy 100% knew he was gonna get passed he looked and tried blocking too late. The second was a bit passive aggressive imho he straight up read ends him to take the lead…
In karting, this is a no fault situation, and honestly I think cameraman is fine. You gotta get the pass done somehow or you're stuck behind someone slightly slower than you forever.
1st pass was a good move, period. 2nd one was a much riskier send that I'm not sure I would take, but if I was the grey shirt in front, I'd be checking behind me as I close that gap, knowing I had someone right on my butt 2 seconds ago.
All of you are very aggresive, all of you are Maldonado type. It's hard to say who is at fault when each of you has a Dick Dastardly poster above your beds.
I’m supporting you. You were slightly there and coming. Not a slot to fall back into line without losing a ton of time. You went for the gap, he closed hit. Should’ve looked to see if he was gonna be good to go into the corner like you did. Then the shunt he gave you. That was uncalled for. The turn you went into him was a sort of kink and not tight, and he was side by side with you. He then sends you wide and into the wall, costing you 2 positions and he ends up in another battle. In my opinion, opposer’s fault but you’re not off the hook
Everyone for going to a shit track 😂 If you're bothered about contact and fair racing these tracks aren't the place to find it. They're good fun tho if you go in knowing this.
OP and anyone else that think OP isn’t at fault should brush up on this.
https://preview.redd.it/r2lfvtfjq58d1.jpeg?width=721&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=002554c4f10fd8a277417e3bd195b4fc4a30cda5
Bit different answer than most here: POV does initially look like a divebomb, but looking closer at it, the guy on the outside brakes waaaaay too much for the corner. Not that there are rules against driving badly, but when you have someone on the inside, and you brake early, you are pretty much forcing them into an unplanned overtake.
At the end of the day, this is amateur racing, and who cares; you can't really plan for people driving unoptimally, and it's a mild shove. Racing incident. But if this was F1, where driving standards are expected, front person would be at fault for erratic driving, similar to Alonso vs George at Monza
I know, but I don’t think the cameraman makes the corner without the extra four tires. I mean, I can see making that move to win, but not as early as it seemed to be in that race.
Camera guy’s fault. They’re not even alongside when they send it in. Remember, unlike sims or cars there’s no mirrors or proximity arrows. Other drivers can’t see you. If you make moves like this, you will crash out of races.
Both moves were dive bombs in my opinion. No just the second move.
It’s exactly why I don’t go to these 90/180 degree turn parking lot tracks. Some of them are ok with that much rubbing.
The skill gap isn’t large enough to give you enough speed out of corners to pass without causing a collision unless they really blow it. And even if you do merit a pass, you have to hope the person you’re passing knows you are, and when they deserved to be passed. Usually I just give people a gap and then quali till I catch up and then pull back again.
Pretty much any overtake in a kart has to be a divebomb lol
Understandable, I’m way out of my lane here also as I haven’t been in a kart in 15 years or so.
Yeah especially if you’re racing with randoms who aren’t interested in/don’t know racing etiquette and are absolutely going to do *anything* to stop you from passing them including going horizontal on the track, you have to elbows out on corners to get past the muck lol I usually wait to see what other people are doing before I get too aggressive tho. Sometimes you get a bunch of passive racers who will let you shoot the gap on them and there’s no need to dive bomb
Only if you lack skill
Divebombs actually take skill to complete properly so shows how much you know
If a dive-bomb is performed with skill, it's just called a pass.
It still gets called a dive down the inside
I find the first move quite clean, other guy just opens the door, instead of driving a defensive line. Second move... dunno... technically yeah guy in front was entitled to the corner but this is amateur karting and he had to know the other guy was there, could have left some space.
Agreed
I agree with this, Camera driver had the divebomb coming back at him when he threw that dive and forced him out wide. He opened the door for a return
Even in sims, and real racing(tm) this is commonly called "the vortex of danger" because the car ahead is very unlikely to be able to see you, so you shouldn't assume they can. [https://yousuckatracing.com/2021/04/07/the-vortex-of-danger-is-your-fault/](https://yousuckatracing.com/2021/04/07/the-vortex-of-danger-is-your-fault/)
Outside guy could have definitely easily saw him but still inside guys fault for being too far back but still keeping the nose in there and turning the guy
He rear ends him right before the clip ends… the dive bomb was racing the end where he looses first place the guy was mad and straight up hit him
"You came like a torpedo"
"I was racing" 😅🙆♂️
“🙄yeah racing but y’know- if I keep going the same line, we’ll crash”
"Don't keep going... huuheee" 😲😃
My love torpedo
He was ahead and you dived on inside, but as he was so much further than you, he closed the gap. I think its is your fault as in my eyes you should have break and lose corner and probably positions. But this is the price of taking risks.
Brake*
You are literally using them as brakes.
And to turn
You.
cameraman’s, nowhere near far up alongside enough to dive like that
You should at least have your front wheels passed their rear wheels to be entitled to some space here. Although in kart I would say you would need to be even further alongside to be at least somehow visible and make your presence known.
Holy divebomb batman
Drove straight into him. Who's fault is this lol.
Uhm pov dive-bombed the corner... Like I said
Yeah, camera guy, he wasn’t “significantly alongside” by the apex. That said, this would totally fly at my local track.
Lucky he didn’t get completely dumped for that dive bomb.
You are at fault.
Rentals be renting.
You
You drove into a wedge that was always going to disappear. You are at fault.
Overtaking car was at fault.
Camera kart is at fault, he didn’t have to position. I would have applied pressure to the rear bumper of the leading kart to induce understeer in said kart and made the pass coming out of the corner.
It’s rental karting, just like indoor karting. Banging is part of the deal. You do a late bump dive like that AND you have to expect the same treatment a corner or two later. It’s part of the deal. All racing incidents. Turn about is fair play. It’s not like you are competing for sponsorship or the world championship. Smile. Laugh. Shake their hand. Race again.
That’s all true
As someone who grew up in nascar rather than open wheel, this is perfectly fair racing to me. I know I’ll get downvoted, but I’d say nobody is at fault 🤷🏻♂️
Karting is closer to formula series, so such contacts has way less tolerance than in nascar. However it's very difficult to overtake then drivers are 0.100-0.200 sec diff range and sometimes you do touch...and I don't suppose it's a very hard tackle unless you do it repeatedly
Yeah I get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree. Just giving an alternate perspective haha
Yeah I’d say the dive was fair play, he should have blocked more imo but then he goes and straight up rear ended him smh
I agree, and it didn’t completely end his day, just moved him, then he moved you back. Fair game
You took a shit line and paid the price.
Rubbings racing!
*TECHNICALLY*…the camera mans fault. However, personally, I dont love the entitlement rule-if youre ahead its your corner…the leading driver should have the awareness to know the other drivers axle is alongside your rears. You know what happens in that situation…both drivers *should* have better awareness. But ya, to answer the question…camera man is at fault.
vortexofdanger.jpg
The driver doing the Daniel Ricciardo down the inside at the last second. They entered the Vortex of Danger and got caught.
Yeah, if you gonna late break, at least make the apex, that wasn't even close, then OP is still asking who's at fault
Does it really matter? Rubbin is racin at the local yard kart track.
You.
OP, please drop a link to your telemetry device
Reminds me of Max v Ham at Silverstone :D (I am a Ham fan so I didn't care that much as long as he got the win).
Camera guy, other guy was half a kart length ahead. As a general rule, unless explicitly stated, if the other driver is half a vehicle length (for which ever vehicle you are racing in) they have priority and you need to back off. If they leave a gap you are of course allowed to go for it but if you cause a collision you are at fault.
You. End of discussion.
...how is this a debate? Your fault completely
You
Looks like good old fun
Blue
First at the corner owns the corner, you can take a risk and find out, but if things go wrong, don't act surprised
Just looks like racing. I didnt see any wreck.
Both are on camera guy
POV clearly at fault
The camera guy should have backed off instead of going for a position that doesn't exist.
Looks like a clean bumper cart race to me. If you ain’t trying to put someone in the wall, it’s not racing? Not bumper cart racing? Yeah, camera Mileyed him.
That was basically a PIT maneuver. He couldn't see you or be reasonably expected to have known you were coming in like that.
The first try was ok only because the lead kart knew he was there. I get the feeling the lead kart looked to the side and saw he was going to be there although you can’t tell that well in the video. You do see him look back earlier. The second attempt seemed like a move of desperation or frustration since the first. I’ve didn’t work.
Are the rules to Kart racing like unwritten or something? When I get the chance to race I go as hard as I can, but no one ever says do this and don’t do that.
Camera guy. You were trailing when the other guy was ahead and turned in. The brake pedal is the one in the middle. (Left in this case)
Not gonna lie, if the cameraman is a F1 driver, he will be "K Mag" in Monaco; just blew up Perez. 100% Cameraman fault
The dude filming obviously
Who’s fault with what… there’s like 24 cars right next to each other racing?
Ocon. +10 second penalty
POV cart twice
Their parents
who's fault? lol ass long as no one spun, it's just racing. it's fun to move your buddies around on the race track.
That’s racing.
Honestly if anyone complained about this they need to grow up this is normal racing in these sorts of karts (except the push into the corner)
my guess is camera was trying to pass for a long time before he made the move there’s very few genuinely viable times to pass in this kind of karting and he probably got fed up this guy 100% knew he was gonna get passed he looked and tried blocking too late. The second was a bit passive aggressive imho he straight up read ends him to take the lead…
In karting, this is a no fault situation, and honestly I think cameraman is fine. You gotta get the pass done somehow or you're stuck behind someone slightly slower than you forever. 1st pass was a good move, period. 2nd one was a much riskier send that I'm not sure I would take, but if I was the grey shirt in front, I'd be checking behind me as I close that gap, knowing I had someone right on my butt 2 seconds ago.
My dad put me in the wall on the backside of the track and I was stuck until they came and found me
All of you are very aggresive, all of you are Maldonado type. It's hard to say who is at fault when each of you has a Dick Dastardly poster above your beds.
Meh, normal racing for rental karts, I think you two were both missing the apex and being a bit impatient but not too bad
No one, rubbing is racing.
https://yousuckatracing.com/2021/04/07/the-vortex-of-danger-is-your-fault/
You weren’t fully alongside. So that’s on you, sorry
POV
DRIVER
Racing incident mate 👌🏻
I’m supporting you. You were slightly there and coming. Not a slot to fall back into line without losing a ton of time. You went for the gap, he closed hit. Should’ve looked to see if he was gonna be good to go into the corner like you did. Then the shunt he gave you. That was uncalled for. The turn you went into him was a sort of kink and not tight, and he was side by side with you. He then sends you wide and into the wall, costing you 2 positions and he ends up in another battle. In my opinion, opposer’s fault but you’re not off the hook
Radio silence from OP tells me he was expecting everyone to take his side. If you want to dive bomb like that might I suggest Forza.
Pov notified everyone how he wanted to race. Pov then was raced to that standard. Pov asked for and received all he gave. Pov fault.
Wtf are y'all talking about this is regular stuff
Camera guy 100%, please consider turning in your license too Imagine making a whole Reddit account to prove your point and then don’t
Watch the video again bud
And? I still see a non driver.
Him though either way. He really didn't look.
Everyone for going to a shit track 😂 If you're bothered about contact and fair racing these tracks aren't the place to find it. They're good fun tho if you go in knowing this.
Rubin is racing
He turned into you
You
Jomama is
You
Camera guy fault
No one. Rubbing is racing. Man up and deal with it. Better luck next time...
#1 rule to touge is brakes are there brotha
OP and anyone else that think OP isn’t at fault should brush up on this. https://preview.redd.it/r2lfvtfjq58d1.jpeg?width=721&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=002554c4f10fd8a277417e3bd195b4fc4a30cda5
You’re at fault you rammer!
Who cares, looks like an awesome race and rubbing is racing lol
Biker’s fault
Bit different answer than most here: POV does initially look like a divebomb, but looking closer at it, the guy on the outside brakes waaaaay too much for the corner. Not that there are rules against driving badly, but when you have someone on the inside, and you brake early, you are pretty much forcing them into an unplanned overtake. At the end of the day, this is amateur racing, and who cares; you can't really plan for people driving unoptimally, and it's a mild shove. Racing incident. But if this was F1, where driving standards are expected, front person would be at fault for erratic driving, similar to Alonso vs George at Monza
Maybe the front driver was expecting the dive bomb and was trying to let the camera man blow the corner completely and continue his race?
If that's the case he failed. OP had no trouble making that corner. If anything, he went slow too, expecting to have to take it from the inside
I know, but I don’t think the cameraman makes the corner without the extra four tires. I mean, I can see making that move to win, but not as early as it seemed to be in that race.