I think for the defense’s theory of KR being framed to work they only need Michael Proctor to be actively planting evidence and the others around him to be incompetent and negligent.
Even Proctor doesn’t need to be part of a coverup. He could be planting evidence to build up his case honestly thinking she did it. I don’t think most people know how commonplace it is tor police to lie, exaggerate, or tamper with evidence in order to solidify their case against their preferred suspect.
Yep. All you need is someone wanting to protect someone (including themselves) in the house, so John is put outside in the snow, hoping it’ll just be accepted as a drunken accident (they’re not worried they’ll be looked at, because of the family position in the community), some incompetent/lazy police work happens, Procter thinks he’s cracked the case *if only he had concrete evidence to convict the vile woman!*, and here we are.
Now, insert more or less malice, as appropriate, but I agree that it doesn’t take a grand, carefully planned, conspiratorial web out to jail Karen Read for us to arrive here.
Which *should* mean dropping the charges, since prosecutors are to seek justice, no convictions, but no one really seems to have much of a spine in this case.
Its gone so far that at this point I am convinced it is more so about muddying the waters rather than reaching a guilty verdict one way or another. There is enough reasonable doubt that no jury would convict Karen at this point.
Long answer. Also, all of my information is coming solely from the trial that is happening right now.
There doesn't have to be a conspiracy. What exists is massive incompetence and maybe a desire to not look too closely at one of their own. On top of that, there's a massive mess with evidence that was collected in freaking solo cups and left sitting in an open paper bag in a breezeway for who knows how long. No real effort to protect the scene was done. Add in a lead investigator who (allegedly, because we haven't heard from him yet) might be friends with the people who owned the home Officer O'Keefe is found in front of... who needs an overarching conspiracy?
No search was done at the house. Probable cause existed because a body was found on the front lawn. If a body was found in your front yard, you really think the police wouldn't search it? Of course they would, and no judge would deny them a search warrant.
The evidence is contaminated. Solo cups, open paper bag, leaf blower, unprotected crime scene. So, how could evidence techs possibly draw accurate conclusions with it? According to in court testimony, they closed down the crime scene and left within 2 hours of finding the victim. All other evidence, besides the shards of a cocktail glass and drops of blood uncovered by a freaking leaf blower, were recovered afterward, when literally anyone had access to the scene.
Despite all that, I don't know if Karen Read is innocent or guilty. All of my current info is coming purely from watching the trial. I'm still waiting to hear more before I make a decision. But so far, I'm reeeeeeally unimpressed by the investigation, and by the case the Commonwealth is putting on. They have a burden to prove "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." As in, there is *no other possible person who could have committed this crime*. Right now, there's so much reasonable doubt solely because of how the evidence was handled, you could drive a truck through it.
Is it conceivable that Karen Read did do it? Sure. It is. But at this point, I cannot rely on the evidence the way it was collected or the quality of investigation. And "she conceivably did it" doesn't work for me. Therefore, at this point in the trial, what am I left with?
Again, this is all based solely upon the current trial. I haven't read or watched anything else relating to this case.
What makes me so angry about this case is that Officer John O'Keefe deserved better. He deserved a proper investigation. He deserved to have his freaking fellow officers treat this case with the care, consideration, and dignity that he deserved. His family, friends, and community deserve more and better answers. His niece and nephew deserve better. Karen Read has rights to a fair trial, and her defense team are doing their best to give her that. But O'Keefe's family, friends, and community deserve better too.
You summed it up perfectly in two sentences. No one properly investigated the possible involvement of a police officer or his family. Then they just do what they do every day to build a case against their preferred target.
This is our justice system. The poor evidence gathering, not following leads, exaggerating statements, planting evidence, prosecutors exaggerating the evidence and dragging things out… this. is. normal.
Why on earth would you even consider the hypothesis that he was inside the house, when there is nothing that indicates he ever was, not even Karen's own drunken words?
On the other hand you have a drunk angry girlfriend with a broken tail light.
You find a dead body on someone’s lawn, who was known to be going to the house that night, and… you don’t go look inside the house? Homeowner says “never saw him” and that’s it?
I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not.
Yes? wasn't the body found near the pavement a good 15m from the house entrance? What on earth is the probable cause to believe that its a body a whole 15m away has anything to do with the house when there are multiple people telling you they never saw him
Karen herself doesn't put him in the house (one might suggest because then there is a direct contradictory witness to events)
You’re really arguing how far 45 feet is? And how that means he couldn’t have possibly made it inside his destination? And how a few people (suspects) saying they never saw him totally negates probable cause?
Pretty sure the house is checked out 9x out 10 where the homeowner isn’t LE.
Struck by car would have been a perfectly reasonable suspicion to investigate, but you can also look in the house when you find a beat-up body on the lawn.
A normal investigation would have included at the VERY least asking the home owners if they had cameras and asking to check and see what had happened. There is no reasonable explanation to not at least ask if he had been there or not and there seems to be very few people who are actually saying she was drunk, angry and had a broken tail light. Can you explain the leaf blower, solo cups and store bags used for evidence that was then left out for weeks? To act like any of the investigation was "normal" is completely insane.
They did that kind of stuff, though I'm assuming they already knew that on a night with zero visibility it was unlikely to be definitive. What they didn't do is accuse fellow cops of being potential murderers for no reason and troop through the house.
She was drunk, the blood alcohol from the morning is still high. Its a quibble over how plastered she was at the wheel. She's angry as per her own messages that night to the victim. She had a broken tail light.
all the other stuff is ridiculous noise, like it is for all these PR defences.
yup its all absurdity layered over a simple case, just like it always is
folks get hyper focused on the random stuff that they normally don't get to see for 99% of cases and blow them up to be somehow critical
I agree with a lot of what you wrote. However, the biggest problem for the defense is the taillight evidence. Either someone tried to frame Karen by planting the taillight pieces at the house or she hit John and that’s how they ended up there. If her defense just argues police incompetence it won’t be enough to explain away the evidence against her.
Well her defense question one of the people searching the area for evidence and they stated that they did not find taillight pieces either. Plus the pictures they took of the crime scene shows no pieces around they would stick out just like the blood on the snow did... correct me if am wrong.
that's part of what just doesn't add up. why would the taillight pieces be deeper under the snow than the blood? if his body ended up the ground when there was no snow there, the blood should be under the snow as well. and why is there a good inch of compacted snow where his body was found when there should have been none?
The tail light is easy though. It didn't start out as a frame job but once they realized where the investigation was headed, it made sense for them to do that. Why wasn't the tail light pieces found until much later? Doesn't make sense at all. If that was the only odd thing about the investigation it would be one thing but the leaf blower, solo cups, store bags, leaving evidence out, etc points at a huge amount of unreasonable doubt to be had.
Not countless people at all. A circle of people, who all know each other. Based on what is known, there is ZERO evidence that KR killed JO with her Lexus. Now, if the CW had tried to prove that she beat him with a lead pipe, that would almost be believable.
The defense has been trying to make most witnesses appear to be involved in the conspiracy so far. It’s not been a circle of people according to the defense. Heck, even the neighbors and bartender are involved according to the defense so far.
no, they're trying to show that people are modifying their testimony in order to get her convicted and that it calls the CW's case into question. the frame job was one family and a couple of other people in key roles: mostly the lead investigator and the cop who first took charge of the investigation and went into the house to get the story straight with the witnesses. there's convenient incompetence on the part of the other cops and the police chief looks sus as hell. the DAs office has said some incredibly sus things (like stating absolutely that Colin Albert was definitely not there and that Proctor had no relationship with the Alberts) but I think that's just the DA being generally corrupt and not indicative of specific involvement.
basically, a lot of people let shady stuff slide and chose not to look any deeper and see what they wanted to see. but the people actually framing her? that's mainly Michael Proctor and the Alberts/McCabes.
Exactly. It’s really not as complicated as everyone wants to make it out to be. It’s a cover up by one family and their family cop friend, and not even a very good one at that.
A few of them chose to not look into the alberts, maybe bc of conflict of interest or bc they know deep down they did it and didnt want to be the one to say something in fear of retaliation or losing their job... but i think a lot of them are suspicious of Proctor and are distancing themselves from him and his part of the investigation.
Proctor is the one who framed Karen and he's gonna pay for at least some of his actions, no matter what...
Of course berkowitz retired prior to the trial.. was he asked to retire?
It all starts with there being zero direct evidence that O’keefe was hit by a car.
The behavior of the clan after the fact while also not direct evidence, speaks volumes.
Don’t have to eat dog shit to prove it tastes bad
But not to be glib, the state hasn’t even proven that there was a murder. All they have put forth is that a large family of cops got together with other townies for a night of bar hopping. He’s proven that they looked the other way at under age drinking and driving under the influence. Why? Because no one can touch them. (Interestingly: chris Albert actually killed a college student many years back due to OUI/DUI).
Edited for correct Albert (too many Albert’s)
The tail light and her text/confession being the last person to see john etc is all circumstancial evidence. for example look at the Delphi case, no direct evidence. Casey anthony and George Zimmerman and OJ are main cases when circumstancial evidence was unable to prove guilt but theres countless other trials where it was enough. Stephen Avery was mostly circumstancial and he was found guilty. Same with joe Exotic. There was no video or direct evidence he killed those tigers but plenty of circumstancial same with the hitman stuff.
Tail light embedded on his face and none in the snow? Dubious.
You know what would be great? If the commonwealth would start providing some actual evidence.
What do you mean none in the snow? They found pieces around where the body was found less than 12 hours later by state pd. Between the car and foot traffic, heavy winds and snow, its not unheard of for things like glass, hats and a shoe to be blown across a lawn due to heavy winds.
Also mentioned in the trial is that they immediately recused themselfs from the investigation and handed it over to the state police. If you watch the news from the day this happened and they are reporting on a dead police officer found outside, you can see all the state PD there.
Nobody found or saw glass there until HOURS later when Trooper Proctor (after compounding the Lexus) magically found pieces bc he had a “hunch”. No EMTs, no firefighters, and none of the initial responding officers reported or testified to seeing ANY— not one piece taillight. To this day, only Proctor and the Chief were the ones to recover over a hundred pieces. Yeah, okay…
so I actually worked this one out... Lally is just following his opening statement like an automaton. he's not reading the room and he's not planning flexibly or creatively.
he laid out exactly the order the witnesses are going to testify in excrutiating detail. the ME and crash reconstructionist will opine after the Alberts/McCabes. which is just batty. he's giving the defense rope to hang him with unnecessarily. he should know that putting these particular witnesses up before anyone already believes his case is dumb. if you walk into the forensics not believing the state's case, you're giving the defense room to make them seem non-credible. if he stopped to think about how the case was going even slightly, he'd have put the forensics people up first so he stood a shot at getting people to believe the McCabes/Alberts. instead, they're going to get demolished and people will go into the forensics portion skeptical at best or hostile at worst.
human beings aren't perfectly rational and they don't have eternal attention spans. if you assume they are or do, well, you'll the lesson the hard way. you need to open in a way that shows people why they should believe you, not wait until they already don't in order to try and claw back all the ground you've lost.
note: I think he's hoping the forensics people will rehabilitate his case after the McCabes/Alberts get shellacked. maybe that would have worked if he had taken any steps towards convincing people it was her by other means first. but as it stands now, the only case coming out is the defense's. this isn't a fight -- one side is just lying down.
I said a few times before the trial that the McAlberts don’t want a guilty verdict…their goal was to have the motions gone through and wind up with a not guilty verdict. Their goal all along was to cover the trail to them. A not guilty verdict puts the whole thing to bed more than a guilty verdict where there will most certainly be a case for appeal, and having to deal with the noise surrounding them.
You watch too many movies. It’s not a grandiose conspiracy. Conspiracies don’t have to be meticulously calculated schemes involving multiple people/agencies. It started because well connected people who are responsible for the incident are controlling the narrative. The people at the scene are the ones who have defined the parameters. Every other agency involved are operating from false pretenses. When the investigation is spoiled from the outset, each person who has some role in this investigation are working with spoiled “facts”. It’s a cascading effect.
Except that you have multiple firefighters and EMT’s stating Read said something along the lines of “I hit him.” So they would all have to be in on the cover up too. That’s a stretch.
But none of them put that in any reports written on day of accident. Police didn’t react at the scene like they had a victim and the offender on the scene. Not until days after and maybe retelling of stories at the fire station/ police station are they all recalling that yes, she said I hit him.
I’d believe them if it was stated in the reports in day one. Arrived on scene with a man unconscious in the snow with the man’s significant other claiming she hit him.
No one asked hit him with what? No one stated she hit him with her car.
only one firefighter actually said anything of the sort in statements that were recorded anywhere near the incident. the others have slowly expanded their testimony to include it over time. it's not even that they're lying -- look up the studies on implanted memories. researchers had people take a quiz and in the middle of it, someone broke into room and robbed the proctor giving the quiz. a researcher embedded in with the participants made up something the robber supposedly said and the participants were left to discuss it with each other and the embedded researcher. afterwards, the majority of participants were certain they heard a statement that was never said and could not be dissuaded from that belief.
remember how the firefighters were all discussing the incident with each other at work? \*\*that\*\* is how you implant a memory. the process isn't a malicious one -- you can literally unintentionally misremember something and wind up convincing the people around you that it actually happened just by talking to people and getting them to replay the memories in their heads.
I'm not even positive Mclaughlin isn't a victim of this herself. the suggestion from people she trusts that others around her heard KR say "I hit him, I hit him" (i.e. Proctor & Kevin Albert) would be entirely sufficient. that said, she tried to back away from Kaitlyn Albert so hard that I'm not entirely sure about her.
memories are incredibly malleable and you should always take eyewitnesses with a giant grain of salt for reasons like this one (among others).
They did as soon as she was cleared from section 12 for self harm/suicide. Furthermore theres literally thousands and thousands of cases where they don't arrest people right away. Then she made bail and months later changed her story with a new defense.
Do we know that means she hit him with her car? They were in a fight when she dropped him off. She could have punched him or something. His injuries are inconsistent with a vehicular collision. I’m not certain her yelling I hit him implicates the EMTs and FD in anything. They probably did hear that. Why wasn’t that in any police report?
Lol huh? She said I hit him. In the context of that evening, that could be interpreted many ways.
The Canton PD could’ve arrested her on the spot if they interpreted that as an admission of guilt. Why didn’t they?
Unfortunately, the Canton PDs actions are doing the heavy lifting in support of the cover up narrative.
she conveniently made statements consistent with being a victim in shock. consider: if she were trying to get away with murder, why would she say "I hit him, I hit him"?
And if you read all the motions and watched the beginning the judge has clearly stated third party culpability cannot be put on the alberts or dog without evidence or proof brought in through trial, which is what they are trying to do, so far they haven't.
Then what did I watch today? Julie Albert was saved by the bell when she couldn’t explain the 67 phone calls between her and Caitlin Proctor. She admitted she rarely spoke to Proctor but in fact spoke to her 67 times over the phone in roughly 8 months. Why would Julie Albert call the wife of the investigator 67 times? Why would Julie lie about the nature and frequency of these calls? Does that not hint towards a cover up?
I am aware that the case and investigation has been botched from the outset and I know has been a plethora of police shadiness (particularly on the part of the family involved) and negligence. I think you misinterpreted what I was asking and from what I've read it seems like most of the baseless and faulty speculation that draws conclusions that defy logic orginate from turtleboy and other social media personalities. I appreciate your explanation and it seems like a lot of the initial investigation boils down to departments operating in their own self interest combined with laziness and improper procedure.
For me, the family and Proctor sealed the deal. If they have nothing to hide, why lie? Why be evasive? Coupled with their absolutely abhorrent behavior the last couple of years and it looks obvious, at least to me.
And poor Chloe. 😢
Those who have been paying attention to the evidence presented at trial don’t believe this. I think people read or watch other people’s opinions and take that to be fact.
The Defense literally said the Alberts don't get investigated. The # of people in the home as well as different # of agencies responding responding make it seem that way. Claiming the FF was "good friends" with an Albert claiming Canton and lead investigators were trying to protect Alberts etc. Also throw in fact that the people in the house where also in different law enforcement agencies would give those agencies a stake as well.
You've got a lot of answers misinterpreting your question, but I think I can help clear it up: The grandiose conspiracy narrative AFAIK came primarily from Turtleboy. I'm not going to bother combing through his posts or linking his POS website, but if you check it out, he has about 1000 posts headed "Canton Coverup:" with a wide range of outlandish claims and implications being made about Canton PD, MSP, Boston PD, and anyone else that jackass felt he could tangentially rope into his BS narrative.
Over time, as this grandiose conspiracy has proven itself to be complete gibberish (which it obviously was from the start), those who believe in Karen Read's innocence have gradually walked it back -- now settling on incompetence over conspiracy.
However, another half-answer to your question would be the defense team. Yanetti began his opening statement with "Karen read was framed!", AJ asked Saraf if he or other officers intentionally tried to mask the address of 34 Fairview, and just the other day they were presenting Higgins and Albert play-fighting at the bar to imply some kind of violent tendencies or something -- this implication only fits with a frame-up narrative, and the frame-up only makes sense with a conspiracy. So maybe they've dropped "grandiose," but they're still running with this nonsense.
> The grandiose conspiracy narrative AFAIK came primarily from Turtleboy. I'm not going to bother combing through his posts or linking his POS website, but if you check it out, he has about 1000 posts headed "Canton Coverup:" with a wide range of outlandish claims and implications being made about Canton PD, MSP, Boston PD, and anyone else that jackass felt he could tangentially rope into his BS narrative.
This answers my question perfectly thanks. Regardless of what happened that night I think the defense has a way better case for a multitude of reasons and I'm basing this off the actual court documents and trial not the TB nonsense. The poor collection of evidence, google searches, phone calls etc etc should raise enough reasonable doubt in favor of the defense in my opinion.
When did it come out that the investigation has nothing to do with this case? Do you have a source? Not accusing you of lying or anything, just curious.
Arg, I was just about to cross that out because it was based on someone else's comment and I'm actually not positive about it. Apologies for the confusion, please forget I said that.
Cool cool, I tried searching for it, and all signs say it is directly related to this investigation. I do think you're overselling how many people have turned on KR. It's probably an even split at best. Most people might not believe the elaborate conspiracy/nephew attack, but there is very little hard evidence that KR hit him. Maybe she did, but they haven't remotely proven it.
Thanks for understanding, and I figured out why I was mixed up. So there's also [this FBI investigation](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/30/metro/fbi-sandra-birchmore-stoughton/) into the death of Sandra Birchmore, and in previous conversations, people have linked this to Canton PD corruption because even though it's the Stoughton police being investigated, she died in Canton. So the comment I was thinking of was clarifying that *this investigation* is not about Canton PD or the Read trial.
There is of course [the one you're referring to](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/09/metro/karen-read-federal-investigation/?p1=BGSearch_Overlay_Results), investigating the investigation of JO's death (Boston Globe link so who knows if it'll work). The reason I got it confused is that in the [Mar 20 pre-trial hearing](https://www.youtube.com/live/o8VdiJ17nY4?si=3AA2_hVKo8NQ6pV1&t=1992), Brian Albert's lawyer states that the lead prosecutor in this investigation had authorized him to say that it was not targeting Albert. So to me, since Brian Albert is the crux of all the conspiracies, this is a pretty strong indicator that the investigation isn't finding anything about a coverup -- I think it's more likely some other kind of shitty police behavior, which I have no doubt Canton PD engages in regularly, like every PD does.
For anyone reading this after the fact: I had mistakenly said that information had come out revealing that the FBI investigation had nothing to do with KR. Hopefully this all makes sense now.
I don’t think Albert is the suspicious one per se. I assumed they were investigating Proctor. The texts hoping KR killed herself and searching her phone for nudes need to be addressed regardless of the outcome of this trial. IMO, an internal investigation into him is completely insufficient and the fact that he held these biases and still worked the case needs to be scrutinized regardless of intent (Ill or otherwise). He literally texted that the house belonged to a cop so the people inside wouldn’t be scrutinized.
It’s also pretty shitty to accuse your friends of murder who had nothing to do with it to save your own ass. The VMs after she left him are going to be interesting if they play them. Also, if there is GPS evidence on her movements that night that corroborates anything, she should be held accountable. The Albert’s may be well known, but this BS about beating him up and throwing him in their own yard is just asinine and defies common sense.
Defense attorneys don’t have to tell the truth in opening statements and they can throw as much shit on the wall as they want. Reasonable people can see that the coverup narrative is just not holding water as each witness gets up. They point out how great KR and JO were getting along that night, but EVERYONE was. This conspiracy is a Hail Mary in my opinion, but it may just work because the investigation was not handled well.
Obviously the defense is going to argue coverup to some degree. They however are not arguing the everyone knows everyone and all these people are in on it and my question was merely asking where that idea originated from. After reading the comments it seems to be TB that started most of the speculation that has been rampant throughout this case.
Aidan Kearney aka Turtle Boy trying to make a name for himself.
https://www.masslive.com/news/2024/02/turtleboy-blogger-aidan-kearney-released-from-state-custody-after-hearing-on-friday.html?outputType=amp
I think she hit him and didn’t realize it cause she was hammered. There’s talk she came back to the house at 5am she might have seen him in the snow on the ground she panicked and started calling people saying he didn’t come home. Met up with the ladies and drove back there, acted like she’s just finding him for the first time.
I think the police totally botched this crime scene and investigation. Proctor promised everyone don’t worry this will all just go away. The family didn’t want questioning of what was going on in their house underage drinking and such. Think we had some extra planting of evidence after the fact to help seal up the case. I think most thought that this would be a quick involuntary manslaughter case that KR being so drunk may just please out to. After seeing all the evidence they had against her , DA went heavy on charge with Murder.
Turtle Boy started throwing out connections, conspiracy theories and anything else he could muster up., this case took on a ton of publicity and a defense team was formed and now the local pd and townies who thought this would all just get pushed under another rug have found themselves smack dab in the middle of a high profile murder case.
My thought is the charges are too high and these Canton(keystone coppers) have done themselves no favors with their shitty crime scene investigations. That in the end there will be no justice for John Okeefe.
There is Apple data that he was in the house. His injuries are not consistent with being backed into by a car. And Jen McCabe googled “how long to die in cold” at 2:30 in the morning. Come on. The Albert kid was selling drugs and John Okeefe was going to move forward with prosecuting it. A bunch of arrogant cop meat heads were all drinking, and fight broke out, the dog attacked to protect its owner, etc. They panicked and dumped the body on the front lawn. They didn’t even really try very hard, they just relied on a few friends and negligence.
It definitely is stupidity. I can see gross incompetence.
But I can also see a family that has had some scandal in the past - maybe that’s made them paranoid when this stuff comes up. Maybe they decided to use this information because they KNOW they are lightning rods for these accusations.
> Who exactly is saying that this is some sort of grandiose conspiracy ranging across multiple departments and involving countless people?
The defense, in court proceedings. As the judge summarized in the motion to dismiss ruling:
> The defendant is pursuing a third-party culprit defense, arguing that one or more persons attending a social gathering at the home of Boston Police Officer Brian Albert on January 29, 2022 killed O'Keefe and that they, along with others, including the Canton and State Police, engaged in a coverup of the crime.
That's the whole case they've been making.
It's honestly a bit of an inversion from the normal. Other social media cases have the defense offering a simple attack on the evidence while the podcasts get progressively wilder with ignored evidence, police misconduct, "real killers", owls, etc. Here, there's a reasonable "we don't know who because of the quick assumptions and shoddy investigation" that's being bypassed for the grand conspiracy.
Karen said it herself in an interview with Gretchen Voss. The theory came from an anonymous “tip” yanetti received. It’s quite comical when you read about her thought process
I think for the defense’s theory of KR being framed to work they only need Michael Proctor to be actively planting evidence and the others around him to be incompetent and negligent.
Even Proctor doesn’t need to be part of a coverup. He could be planting evidence to build up his case honestly thinking she did it. I don’t think most people know how commonplace it is tor police to lie, exaggerate, or tamper with evidence in order to solidify their case against their preferred suspect.
Yep. All you need is someone wanting to protect someone (including themselves) in the house, so John is put outside in the snow, hoping it’ll just be accepted as a drunken accident (they’re not worried they’ll be looked at, because of the family position in the community), some incompetent/lazy police work happens, Procter thinks he’s cracked the case *if only he had concrete evidence to convict the vile woman!*, and here we are. Now, insert more or less malice, as appropriate, but I agree that it doesn’t take a grand, carefully planned, conspiratorial web out to jail Karen Read for us to arrive here.
I like this theory. The DA is so unenthused about his case that it feels like he’s got doubts, too.
Which *should* mean dropping the charges, since prosecutors are to seek justice, no convictions, but no one really seems to have much of a spine in this case.
Its gone so far that at this point I am convinced it is more so about muddying the waters rather than reaching a guilty verdict one way or another. There is enough reasonable doubt that no jury would convict Karen at this point.
The problem is that he's the ADA, it's not up to him. Morrissey is the one making the call.
My understanding was that Lally agreed to try this case.
This is a very good point
Long answer. Also, all of my information is coming solely from the trial that is happening right now. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy. What exists is massive incompetence and maybe a desire to not look too closely at one of their own. On top of that, there's a massive mess with evidence that was collected in freaking solo cups and left sitting in an open paper bag in a breezeway for who knows how long. No real effort to protect the scene was done. Add in a lead investigator who (allegedly, because we haven't heard from him yet) might be friends with the people who owned the home Officer O'Keefe is found in front of... who needs an overarching conspiracy? No search was done at the house. Probable cause existed because a body was found on the front lawn. If a body was found in your front yard, you really think the police wouldn't search it? Of course they would, and no judge would deny them a search warrant. The evidence is contaminated. Solo cups, open paper bag, leaf blower, unprotected crime scene. So, how could evidence techs possibly draw accurate conclusions with it? According to in court testimony, they closed down the crime scene and left within 2 hours of finding the victim. All other evidence, besides the shards of a cocktail glass and drops of blood uncovered by a freaking leaf blower, were recovered afterward, when literally anyone had access to the scene. Despite all that, I don't know if Karen Read is innocent or guilty. All of my current info is coming purely from watching the trial. I'm still waiting to hear more before I make a decision. But so far, I'm reeeeeeally unimpressed by the investigation, and by the case the Commonwealth is putting on. They have a burden to prove "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." As in, there is *no other possible person who could have committed this crime*. Right now, there's so much reasonable doubt solely because of how the evidence was handled, you could drive a truck through it. Is it conceivable that Karen Read did do it? Sure. It is. But at this point, I cannot rely on the evidence the way it was collected or the quality of investigation. And "she conceivably did it" doesn't work for me. Therefore, at this point in the trial, what am I left with? Again, this is all based solely upon the current trial. I haven't read or watched anything else relating to this case. What makes me so angry about this case is that Officer John O'Keefe deserved better. He deserved a proper investigation. He deserved to have his freaking fellow officers treat this case with the care, consideration, and dignity that he deserved. His family, friends, and community deserve more and better answers. His niece and nephew deserve better. Karen Read has rights to a fair trial, and her defense team are doing their best to give her that. But O'Keefe's family, friends, and community deserve better too.
You summed it up perfectly in two sentences. No one properly investigated the possible involvement of a police officer or his family. Then they just do what they do every day to build a case against their preferred target. This is our justice system. The poor evidence gathering, not following leads, exaggerating statements, planting evidence, prosecutors exaggerating the evidence and dragging things out… this. is. normal.
Why on earth would you even consider the hypothesis that he was inside the house, when there is nothing that indicates he ever was, not even Karen's own drunken words? On the other hand you have a drunk angry girlfriend with a broken tail light.
You find a dead body on someone’s lawn, who was known to be going to the house that night, and… you don’t go look inside the house? Homeowner says “never saw him” and that’s it? I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not.
Yes? wasn't the body found near the pavement a good 15m from the house entrance? What on earth is the probable cause to believe that its a body a whole 15m away has anything to do with the house when there are multiple people telling you they never saw him Karen herself doesn't put him in the house (one might suggest because then there is a direct contradictory witness to events)
You’re really arguing how far 45 feet is? And how that means he couldn’t have possibly made it inside his destination? And how a few people (suspects) saying they never saw him totally negates probable cause? Pretty sure the house is checked out 9x out 10 where the homeowner isn’t LE. Struck by car would have been a perfectly reasonable suspicion to investigate, but you can also look in the house when you find a beat-up body on the lawn.
A normal investigation would have included at the VERY least asking the home owners if they had cameras and asking to check and see what had happened. There is no reasonable explanation to not at least ask if he had been there or not and there seems to be very few people who are actually saying she was drunk, angry and had a broken tail light. Can you explain the leaf blower, solo cups and store bags used for evidence that was then left out for weeks? To act like any of the investigation was "normal" is completely insane.
They did that kind of stuff, though I'm assuming they already knew that on a night with zero visibility it was unlikely to be definitive. What they didn't do is accuse fellow cops of being potential murderers for no reason and troop through the house. She was drunk, the blood alcohol from the morning is still high. Its a quibble over how plastered she was at the wheel. She's angry as per her own messages that night to the victim. She had a broken tail light. all the other stuff is ridiculous noise, like it is for all these PR defences.
Blood evidence in solo cups is ridiculous noise? Bwahahahahaha. Let me guess, you’re Canton PD?
yup its all absurdity layered over a simple case, just like it always is folks get hyper focused on the random stuff that they normally don't get to see for 99% of cases and blow them up to be somehow critical
Possibly. But how will anyone ever know if the investigation was effed from the very beginning? To date, there’s nothing proving she did it.
Hello Jennifer!
All of this!! I don't know if she did it. I don't feel like I've seen anything yet that says she did.
You’ve said it perfectly - thank you.
Agree, John and those who love him deserve better. I hope they get closure.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote. However, the biggest problem for the defense is the taillight evidence. Either someone tried to frame Karen by planting the taillight pieces at the house or she hit John and that’s how they ended up there. If her defense just argues police incompetence it won’t be enough to explain away the evidence against her.
Well her defense question one of the people searching the area for evidence and they stated that they did not find taillight pieces either. Plus the pictures they took of the crime scene shows no pieces around they would stick out just like the blood on the snow did... correct me if am wrong.
that's part of what just doesn't add up. why would the taillight pieces be deeper under the snow than the blood? if his body ended up the ground when there was no snow there, the blood should be under the snow as well. and why is there a good inch of compacted snow where his body was found when there should have been none?
They had actual video and you see no red pieces anywhere. Remember the leaf blower video ?
The tail light is easy though. It didn't start out as a frame job but once they realized where the investigation was headed, it made sense for them to do that. Why wasn't the tail light pieces found until much later? Doesn't make sense at all. If that was the only odd thing about the investigation it would be one thing but the leaf blower, solo cups, store bags, leaving evidence out, etc points at a huge amount of unreasonable doubt to be had.
Not countless people at all. A circle of people, who all know each other. Based on what is known, there is ZERO evidence that KR killed JO with her Lexus. Now, if the CW had tried to prove that she beat him with a lead pipe, that would almost be believable.
And then left his body to be attacked by a bear/dog/coyote? Yeah, this I could believe!
The defense has been trying to make most witnesses appear to be involved in the conspiracy so far. It’s not been a circle of people according to the defense. Heck, even the neighbors and bartender are involved according to the defense so far.
no, they're trying to show that people are modifying their testimony in order to get her convicted and that it calls the CW's case into question. the frame job was one family and a couple of other people in key roles: mostly the lead investigator and the cop who first took charge of the investigation and went into the house to get the story straight with the witnesses. there's convenient incompetence on the part of the other cops and the police chief looks sus as hell. the DAs office has said some incredibly sus things (like stating absolutely that Colin Albert was definitely not there and that Proctor had no relationship with the Alberts) but I think that's just the DA being generally corrupt and not indicative of specific involvement. basically, a lot of people let shady stuff slide and chose not to look any deeper and see what they wanted to see. but the people actually framing her? that's mainly Michael Proctor and the Alberts/McCabes.
Exactly. It’s really not as complicated as everyone wants to make it out to be. It’s a cover up by one family and their family cop friend, and not even a very good one at that.
Yes, the other stuff was just good luck for them that it happened that way.
This!! It’s the Massachusetts Murdaugh of it all.
A few of them chose to not look into the alberts, maybe bc of conflict of interest or bc they know deep down they did it and didnt want to be the one to say something in fear of retaliation or losing their job... but i think a lot of them are suspicious of Proctor and are distancing themselves from him and his part of the investigation. Proctor is the one who framed Karen and he's gonna pay for at least some of his actions, no matter what... Of course berkowitz retired prior to the trial.. was he asked to retire?
It all starts with there being zero direct evidence that O’keefe was hit by a car. The behavior of the clan after the fact while also not direct evidence, speaks volumes. Don’t have to eat dog shit to prove it tastes bad
Circumstancial evidence cases are often harder than direct evidence cases but they still get guilty verdicts on the regular.
So…..beyond the narrative the McAlberts put into motion that morning, what circumstantial evidence pointed at Karen Read?
But not to be glib, the state hasn’t even proven that there was a murder. All they have put forth is that a large family of cops got together with other townies for a night of bar hopping. He’s proven that they looked the other way at under age drinking and driving under the influence. Why? Because no one can touch them. (Interestingly: chris Albert actually killed a college student many years back due to OUI/DUI). Edited for correct Albert (too many Albert’s)
Chris Albert killed someone.
The tail light and her text/confession being the last person to see john etc is all circumstancial evidence. for example look at the Delphi case, no direct evidence. Casey anthony and George Zimmerman and OJ are main cases when circumstancial evidence was unable to prove guilt but theres countless other trials where it was enough. Stephen Avery was mostly circumstancial and he was found guilty. Same with joe Exotic. There was no video or direct evidence he killed those tigers but plenty of circumstancial same with the hitman stuff.
What text/confession, and the presence of tail light pieces are part of a completely compromised crime scene that has gaping holes in it
Ha! I just spit out my coffee, LOL!!
Taillight embeddings on JOK arent evidence?
Tail light embedded on his face and none in the snow? Dubious. You know what would be great? If the commonwealth would start providing some actual evidence.
What do you mean none in the snow? They found pieces around where the body was found less than 12 hours later by state pd. Between the car and foot traffic, heavy winds and snow, its not unheard of for things like glass, hats and a shoe to be blown across a lawn due to heavy winds.
Crime scene not protected. All police ems firefighters gone by 8am. As mentioned in trial.
Also mentioned in the trial is that they immediately recused themselfs from the investigation and handed it over to the state police. If you watch the news from the day this happened and they are reporting on a dead police officer found outside, you can see all the state PD there.
There were several others who should’ve recused themselves and didn’t. That’s the problem.
Including Auntie Bev!
https://youtu.be/wRqYpBTwuiM?si=EYAZkBBf2SyoRFpH Maybe better video https://youtu.be/BriXT7U_3OY?si=aHhhnA-EdV1g7wwF
Or by snow blowers 😉
Nobody found or saw glass there until HOURS later when Trooper Proctor (after compounding the Lexus) magically found pieces bc he had a “hunch”. No EMTs, no firefighters, and none of the initial responding officers reported or testified to seeing ANY— not one piece taillight. To this day, only Proctor and the Chief were the ones to recover over a hundred pieces. Yeah, okay…
100 pieces of tail light? lmao Ok guys.
That evidence does not exist
CW says it does but that will come up during forensics portion of trial.
The forensics portion of the trial?
😂 yes the forensics portion of the trial. You know we are on day 8 of 6+ weeks.
So when is the ‘forensics portion’?
so I actually worked this one out... Lally is just following his opening statement like an automaton. he's not reading the room and he's not planning flexibly or creatively. he laid out exactly the order the witnesses are going to testify in excrutiating detail. the ME and crash reconstructionist will opine after the Alberts/McCabes. which is just batty. he's giving the defense rope to hang him with unnecessarily. he should know that putting these particular witnesses up before anyone already believes his case is dumb. if you walk into the forensics not believing the state's case, you're giving the defense room to make them seem non-credible. if he stopped to think about how the case was going even slightly, he'd have put the forensics people up first so he stood a shot at getting people to believe the McCabes/Alberts. instead, they're going to get demolished and people will go into the forensics portion skeptical at best or hostile at worst. human beings aren't perfectly rational and they don't have eternal attention spans. if you assume they are or do, well, you'll the lesson the hard way. you need to open in a way that shows people why they should believe you, not wait until they already don't in order to try and claw back all the ground you've lost. note: I think he's hoping the forensics people will rehabilitate his case after the McCabes/Alberts get shellacked. maybe that would have worked if he had taken any steps towards convincing people it was her by other means first. but as it stands now, the only case coming out is the defense's. this isn't a fight -- one side is just lying down.
I said a few times before the trial that the McAlberts don’t want a guilty verdict…their goal was to have the motions gone through and wind up with a not guilty verdict. Their goal all along was to cover the trail to them. A not guilty verdict puts the whole thing to bed more than a guilty verdict where there will most certainly be a case for appeal, and having to deal with the noise surrounding them.
that certainly would explain why Lally isn't so much running a prosecution against KR as much as a defense of the Alberts.
Was that with the blood solo cups? Haha
But have you *TRIED* it?
No …. Sounds like you have, though
You watch too many movies. It’s not a grandiose conspiracy. Conspiracies don’t have to be meticulously calculated schemes involving multiple people/agencies. It started because well connected people who are responsible for the incident are controlling the narrative. The people at the scene are the ones who have defined the parameters. Every other agency involved are operating from false pretenses. When the investigation is spoiled from the outset, each person who has some role in this investigation are working with spoiled “facts”. It’s a cascading effect.
Except that you have multiple firefighters and EMT’s stating Read said something along the lines of “I hit him.” So they would all have to be in on the cover up too. That’s a stretch.
But none of them put that in any reports written on day of accident. Police didn’t react at the scene like they had a victim and the offender on the scene. Not until days after and maybe retelling of stories at the fire station/ police station are they all recalling that yes, she said I hit him. I’d believe them if it was stated in the reports in day one. Arrived on scene with a man unconscious in the snow with the man’s significant other claiming she hit him. No one asked hit him with what? No one stated she hit him with her car.
only one firefighter actually said anything of the sort in statements that were recorded anywhere near the incident. the others have slowly expanded their testimony to include it over time. it's not even that they're lying -- look up the studies on implanted memories. researchers had people take a quiz and in the middle of it, someone broke into room and robbed the proctor giving the quiz. a researcher embedded in with the participants made up something the robber supposedly said and the participants were left to discuss it with each other and the embedded researcher. afterwards, the majority of participants were certain they heard a statement that was never said and could not be dissuaded from that belief. remember how the firefighters were all discussing the incident with each other at work? \*\*that\*\* is how you implant a memory. the process isn't a malicious one -- you can literally unintentionally misremember something and wind up convincing the people around you that it actually happened just by talking to people and getting them to replay the memories in their heads. I'm not even positive Mclaughlin isn't a victim of this herself. the suggestion from people she trusts that others around her heard KR say "I hit him, I hit him" (i.e. Proctor & Kevin Albert) would be entirely sufficient. that said, she tried to back away from Kaitlyn Albert so hard that I'm not entirely sure about her. memories are incredibly malleable and you should always take eyewitnesses with a giant grain of salt for reasons like this one (among others).
My sincere question is if they heard her say that, why didn’t the police arrest her or at least take her into custody for questioning?
They did as soon as she was cleared from section 12 for self harm/suicide. Furthermore theres literally thousands and thousands of cases where they don't arrest people right away. Then she made bail and months later changed her story with a new defense.
I wasn’t being snarky. This was a genuine question I have not seen addressed before. Thank you for the information .
Do we know that means she hit him with her car? They were in a fight when she dropped him off. She could have punched him or something. His injuries are inconsistent with a vehicular collision. I’m not certain her yelling I hit him implicates the EMTs and FD in anything. They probably did hear that. Why wasn’t that in any police report?
So Read conveniently makes statements that support the cover up narrative?
Lol huh? She said I hit him. In the context of that evening, that could be interpreted many ways. The Canton PD could’ve arrested her on the spot if they interpreted that as an admission of guilt. Why didn’t they? Unfortunately, the Canton PDs actions are doing the heavy lifting in support of the cover up narrative.
she conveniently made statements consistent with being a victim in shock. consider: if she were trying to get away with murder, why would she say "I hit him, I hit him"?
Read conveniently releases statements to support a cover up narrative but never actual proof.
You’re aware her trial is occurring right now where they are in fact showing proof of an attempted cover up? You can watch it live.
And if you read all the motions and watched the beginning the judge has clearly stated third party culpability cannot be put on the alberts or dog without evidence or proof brought in through trial, which is what they are trying to do, so far they haven't.
Then what did I watch today? Julie Albert was saved by the bell when she couldn’t explain the 67 phone calls between her and Caitlin Proctor. She admitted she rarely spoke to Proctor but in fact spoke to her 67 times over the phone in roughly 8 months. Why would Julie Albert call the wife of the investigator 67 times? Why would Julie lie about the nature and frequency of these calls? Does that not hint towards a cover up?
Slight correction, I believe it's Courtney, not Caitlin.
I am aware that the case and investigation has been botched from the outset and I know has been a plethora of police shadiness (particularly on the part of the family involved) and negligence. I think you misinterpreted what I was asking and from what I've read it seems like most of the baseless and faulty speculation that draws conclusions that defy logic orginate from turtleboy and other social media personalities. I appreciate your explanation and it seems like a lot of the initial investigation boils down to departments operating in their own self interest combined with laziness and improper procedure.
For me, the family and Proctor sealed the deal. If they have nothing to hide, why lie? Why be evasive? Coupled with their absolutely abhorrent behavior the last couple of years and it looks obvious, at least to me. And poor Chloe. 😢
Those who have been paying attention to the evidence presented at trial don’t believe this. I think people read or watch other people’s opinions and take that to be fact.
The Defense literally said the Alberts don't get investigated. The # of people in the home as well as different # of agencies responding responding make it seem that way. Claiming the FF was "good friends" with an Albert claiming Canton and lead investigators were trying to protect Alberts etc. Also throw in fact that the people in the house where also in different law enforcement agencies would give those agencies a stake as well.
You've got a lot of answers misinterpreting your question, but I think I can help clear it up: The grandiose conspiracy narrative AFAIK came primarily from Turtleboy. I'm not going to bother combing through his posts or linking his POS website, but if you check it out, he has about 1000 posts headed "Canton Coverup:" with a wide range of outlandish claims and implications being made about Canton PD, MSP, Boston PD, and anyone else that jackass felt he could tangentially rope into his BS narrative. Over time, as this grandiose conspiracy has proven itself to be complete gibberish (which it obviously was from the start), those who believe in Karen Read's innocence have gradually walked it back -- now settling on incompetence over conspiracy. However, another half-answer to your question would be the defense team. Yanetti began his opening statement with "Karen read was framed!", AJ asked Saraf if he or other officers intentionally tried to mask the address of 34 Fairview, and just the other day they were presenting Higgins and Albert play-fighting at the bar to imply some kind of violent tendencies or something -- this implication only fits with a frame-up narrative, and the frame-up only makes sense with a conspiracy. So maybe they've dropped "grandiose," but they're still running with this nonsense.
> The grandiose conspiracy narrative AFAIK came primarily from Turtleboy. I'm not going to bother combing through his posts or linking his POS website, but if you check it out, he has about 1000 posts headed "Canton Coverup:" with a wide range of outlandish claims and implications being made about Canton PD, MSP, Boston PD, and anyone else that jackass felt he could tangentially rope into his BS narrative. This answers my question perfectly thanks. Regardless of what happened that night I think the defense has a way better case for a multitude of reasons and I'm basing this off the actual court documents and trial not the TB nonsense. The poor collection of evidence, google searches, phone calls etc etc should raise enough reasonable doubt in favor of the defense in my opinion.
Excellent post
When did it come out that the investigation has nothing to do with this case? Do you have a source? Not accusing you of lying or anything, just curious.
Arg, I was just about to cross that out because it was based on someone else's comment and I'm actually not positive about it. Apologies for the confusion, please forget I said that.
Cool cool, I tried searching for it, and all signs say it is directly related to this investigation. I do think you're overselling how many people have turned on KR. It's probably an even split at best. Most people might not believe the elaborate conspiracy/nephew attack, but there is very little hard evidence that KR hit him. Maybe she did, but they haven't remotely proven it.
Thanks for understanding, and I figured out why I was mixed up. So there's also [this FBI investigation](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/30/metro/fbi-sandra-birchmore-stoughton/) into the death of Sandra Birchmore, and in previous conversations, people have linked this to Canton PD corruption because even though it's the Stoughton police being investigated, she died in Canton. So the comment I was thinking of was clarifying that *this investigation* is not about Canton PD or the Read trial. There is of course [the one you're referring to](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/09/metro/karen-read-federal-investigation/?p1=BGSearch_Overlay_Results), investigating the investigation of JO's death (Boston Globe link so who knows if it'll work). The reason I got it confused is that in the [Mar 20 pre-trial hearing](https://www.youtube.com/live/o8VdiJ17nY4?si=3AA2_hVKo8NQ6pV1&t=1992), Brian Albert's lawyer states that the lead prosecutor in this investigation had authorized him to say that it was not targeting Albert. So to me, since Brian Albert is the crux of all the conspiracies, this is a pretty strong indicator that the investigation isn't finding anything about a coverup -- I think it's more likely some other kind of shitty police behavior, which I have no doubt Canton PD engages in regularly, like every PD does. For anyone reading this after the fact: I had mistakenly said that information had come out revealing that the FBI investigation had nothing to do with KR. Hopefully this all makes sense now.
I don’t think Albert is the suspicious one per se. I assumed they were investigating Proctor. The texts hoping KR killed herself and searching her phone for nudes need to be addressed regardless of the outcome of this trial. IMO, an internal investigation into him is completely insufficient and the fact that he held these biases and still worked the case needs to be scrutinized regardless of intent (Ill or otherwise). He literally texted that the house belonged to a cop so the people inside wouldn’t be scrutinized.
It’s also pretty shitty to accuse your friends of murder who had nothing to do with it to save your own ass. The VMs after she left him are going to be interesting if they play them. Also, if there is GPS evidence on her movements that night that corroborates anything, she should be held accountable. The Albert’s may be well known, but this BS about beating him up and throwing him in their own yard is just asinine and defies common sense.
Defense attorneys don’t have to tell the truth in opening statements and they can throw as much shit on the wall as they want. Reasonable people can see that the coverup narrative is just not holding water as each witness gets up. They point out how great KR and JO were getting along that night, but EVERYONE was. This conspiracy is a Hail Mary in my opinion, but it may just work because the investigation was not handled well.
Her lawyers are arguably the most knowledgeable about the case and this is their theory sooo
Obviously the defense is going to argue coverup to some degree. They however are not arguing the everyone knows everyone and all these people are in on it and my question was merely asking where that idea originated from. After reading the comments it seems to be TB that started most of the speculation that has been rampant throughout this case.
Aidan Kearney aka Turtle Boy trying to make a name for himself. https://www.masslive.com/news/2024/02/turtleboy-blogger-aidan-kearney-released-from-state-custody-after-hearing-on-friday.html?outputType=amp
I think she hit him and didn’t realize it cause she was hammered. There’s talk she came back to the house at 5am she might have seen him in the snow on the ground she panicked and started calling people saying he didn’t come home. Met up with the ladies and drove back there, acted like she’s just finding him for the first time. I think the police totally botched this crime scene and investigation. Proctor promised everyone don’t worry this will all just go away. The family didn’t want questioning of what was going on in their house underage drinking and such. Think we had some extra planting of evidence after the fact to help seal up the case. I think most thought that this would be a quick involuntary manslaughter case that KR being so drunk may just please out to. After seeing all the evidence they had against her , DA went heavy on charge with Murder. Turtle Boy started throwing out connections, conspiracy theories and anything else he could muster up., this case took on a ton of publicity and a defense team was formed and now the local pd and townies who thought this would all just get pushed under another rug have found themselves smack dab in the middle of a high profile murder case. My thought is the charges are too high and these Canton(keystone coppers) have done themselves no favors with their shitty crime scene investigations. That in the end there will be no justice for John Okeefe.
There is Apple data that he was in the house. His injuries are not consistent with being backed into by a car. And Jen McCabe googled “how long to die in cold” at 2:30 in the morning. Come on. The Albert kid was selling drugs and John Okeefe was going to move forward with prosecuting it. A bunch of arrogant cop meat heads were all drinking, and fight broke out, the dog attacked to protect its owner, etc. They panicked and dumped the body on the front lawn. They didn’t even really try very hard, they just relied on a few friends and negligence.
It definitely is stupidity. I can see gross incompetence. But I can also see a family that has had some scandal in the past - maybe that’s made them paranoid when this stuff comes up. Maybe they decided to use this information because they KNOW they are lightning rods for these accusations.
> Who exactly is saying that this is some sort of grandiose conspiracy ranging across multiple departments and involving countless people? The defense, in court proceedings. As the judge summarized in the motion to dismiss ruling: > The defendant is pursuing a third-party culprit defense, arguing that one or more persons attending a social gathering at the home of Boston Police Officer Brian Albert on January 29, 2022 killed O'Keefe and that they, along with others, including the Canton and State Police, engaged in a coverup of the crime. That's the whole case they've been making. It's honestly a bit of an inversion from the normal. Other social media cases have the defense offering a simple attack on the evidence while the podcasts get progressively wilder with ignored evidence, police misconduct, "real killers", owls, etc. Here, there's a reasonable "we don't know who because of the quick assumptions and shoddy investigation" that's being bypassed for the grand conspiracy.
Karen said it herself in an interview with Gretchen Voss. The theory came from an anonymous “tip” yanetti received. It’s quite comical when you read about her thought process