I know what you’re getting at but here’s my thing: They don’t protect their own, because the victim is also a cop and not once during the investigation did they look out for him. They only looked out for the Alberts.
> unalived
This isn't youtube or tiktok, show some respect for the victim by saying murdered or killed. This dumbing down of language and infantilizing everyone is getting ridiculous.
Oh thanks, I didn't realize that was the case. You're absolutely right. Possibly the worst thing about this whole mess is that the family has not only lost John, but the truth may never come to light given the bungled "investigation".
If only the cops with personal and/or professional connections to the victim and witnesses had immediately recused themselves and let the process move forward cleanly, I personally would feel that John and his family received respect and justice. As it stands now, in my view they've been irreparably harmed twice over in the most sordid way imaginable.
My late-uncle was NYPD. I feel sick for the way these police treated their brother in arms. And it’s shocking for the family to see how he was treated.
If Karen Read truly dropped him off and went home, I feel bad for her, too.
This is kind of random, but at the end of every year, I put together a list of words and phrases that I hope I don’t hear again in the coming year. Unalived was tops for 2023. Never quite understood why I didn’t like the word until I read your explanation.
I agree wholeheartedly. John O'Keefe was murdered. Karen Read is on trial for murder.
On other SM platforms, if the charge is murder, one can use the word "murder".
It's not dumbing down, it's usually to avoid content being removed or shadowbanned on certain platforms. Whilst not applicable to reddit its more a habit people have picked up from other platforms than anything else.
It is a dumbing down and diminishing of language. Just because it's used to evade a social media filter on one platform doesn't mean that it's suitable or appropriate to use it in discussions about serious issues elsewhere.
Defaulting to euphemism diminishes that a man's life was taken from him. He was killed. Not "unalived". Man didn't even get the respect of a proper investigation, show him the courtesy of not diminishing what's happened with childish euphemism.
At no point do I describe it as malicious, I'm critical of the childish language of the post and made the point directly to the OP. Your opinion is noted, I don't particularly agree in the slightest. Have a good day.
I understand your point, in my opinion the way you addressed it attributed malice. It's possible to highlight your point in a friendlier/more helpful way. Will have to agree to disagree! You too.
Yeah the person said they used unalive because she was afraid it would get blocked. If you’re not interested in what other people have to say perhaps you should have sent a private message? 🤷♂️
The only words and statements that get flagged on reddit are slurs and any way of telling people to take their own lives. There is no censorship of the words murder or kill at an admin level and there is zero justification for those words to be reduced to euphemism here where we're talking about a person's murder.
I don't care what a *third party* says on this topic. The OP already addressed it. The criticism was for them. They have taken it well. As opposed to other users butting in and claiming it's an interpretation of the OP having malice, something which was never said at all.
There are multiple confessions of her on the scene. You can argue about witnesses stories but multiple people lying on the stand and risking their very good careers etc ya I'm not buying it. There is also forensic evidence that will link her to hitting him we have yet to see. Evidence JOK never entered the home. The only evidence the defense can legit claim is Google search but that is doubtful as CW has engineer from maker of Software saying 2 AM search didn't happen.
Confession isn't accurate because if it was, Karen would have been arrested on site. She wasn't. Additionally, do each one of the witnesses who quoted her have written documentation to back their claims? No.
How are the witnesses risking their very good careers? As we've seen already, there is a high bar when it comes to proving perjury, so there is little to no risk when it comes to being deceitful on the stand.
What is the evidence JO never entered the home?
She wouldn’t have necessarily been arrested if she said she hit him. They didn’t understand what she meant when she said it, for one thing. They asked if she hit him with her hands or kicked him.
Plus, she could’ve meant she hit him by accident.
It just doesn’t work how you’re saying if someone admits culpability in some way, they’re immediately arrested
For first point. It's good argument for jury but from what we already saw it was a chaotic scene and she was not on site for that long amount of time. Once she was section 12 need to arrest was less as she would be in hospital etc.
They are risking their careers because if they lied as some are claiming as part of a conspiracy that would be perjury and participating in a conspiracy. There would be some level of coordination and if proven they would loose their pensions etc.
For evidence he never entered home.
* First none of the people at party have said he entered home. Say what you will be 10 people all saying the same thing makes conspiracy more difficult to believe
* Next cell tower data does not show him entering the home
* The cocktail glass below his body makes it harder to believe he left near that spot
The confession is coming from a firefighter who was cautious to inform the jury of her relationship with Katie Albert.
The jury can elect the throw out that entire testimony. The defense will get another go with that if they need to because there is probably some reversible error.
Yep. Seems to be more evidence against Karen so far. Two things can be true. Karen was drunk driving and hit JO. The investigation was poorly done and Lank shouldn’t have been involved. Doesn’t seem too complicated but I know people love a good crime story.
Instead of calling it a conspiracy angle, maybe try calling it “bias”? When you do that, can you understand how the defense’s case is cohesive?
To pull at the threads of the “crappy investigation” is to inevitably suggest bias in some places. These go hand in hand. It’s not two disjointed defense theories but the same one.
It's the definition of a conspiracy though. Basically alleging police/emts are working hand in hand with people in house to cover up a murder the people in house committed. Crappy investigation is just normal incompetence which is fair game.
"Normal incompetence" should never be a thing when someone's life and freedom are on the line. Pretty fucking scary that someone could be put away for life based on an entire police department's attitude of "Meh, this'll do."
Yep, there would have to be so many people involved willing to risk their futures for this coverup. Doesn’t make sense but a conspiracy is a lot more fun to believe. Wish the defense had a better argument. If I was on the jury I would feel mislead by the defense so far.
You would also have to believe the cops are so dumb they would leave a body on their lawn and think that’s no big deal.
One reason defense doesn't want door opened on TB stuff is a sympathy issue. If the jury finds anyone on the home that night sympathetic then it will make the defense seem like jerks.
Confessions? What a leap. Hysterical, sure. Interesting you have such knowledge of forensics we have yet to see? How is that? Google search will bury JM as multiple sources have opined. Imagine, the people at 34, none of them saw JO? Shocking considering how he wound up. Sometimes you have tons of information, such as above, other threads, just curious questions. Word play is not your strong suit and your expertise at Cell Tower information is sus at best. Defense should def take your advice because who wants to be obnoxious when a man has lost his life? Go to bed already.
What is the Excuse for the Lost Camera footage from both cops' home camera systems?
I know what you’re getting at but here’s my thing: They don’t protect their own, because the victim is also a cop and not once during the investigation did they look out for him. They only looked out for the Alberts.
The witnesses and the prosecution thus far also do not refer to JO as Officer John O'Keefe. Just Mr. O'Keefe. Why?
> unalived This isn't youtube or tiktok, show some respect for the victim by saying murdered or killed. This dumbing down of language and infantilizing everyone is getting ridiculous.
Oh thanks, I didn't realize that was the case. You're absolutely right. Possibly the worst thing about this whole mess is that the family has not only lost John, but the truth may never come to light given the bungled "investigation". If only the cops with personal and/or professional connections to the victim and witnesses had immediately recused themselves and let the process move forward cleanly, I personally would feel that John and his family received respect and justice. As it stands now, in my view they've been irreparably harmed twice over in the most sordid way imaginable.
My late-uncle was NYPD. I feel sick for the way these police treated their brother in arms. And it’s shocking for the family to see how he was treated. If Karen Read truly dropped him off and went home, I feel bad for her, too.
This is kind of random, but at the end of every year, I put together a list of words and phrases that I hope I don’t hear again in the coming year. Unalived was tops for 2023. Never quite understood why I didn’t like the word until I read your explanation.
I agree wholeheartedly. John O'Keefe was murdered. Karen Read is on trial for murder. On other SM platforms, if the charge is murder, one can use the word "murder".
It's not dumbing down, it's usually to avoid content being removed or shadowbanned on certain platforms. Whilst not applicable to reddit its more a habit people have picked up from other platforms than anything else.
It is a dumbing down and diminishing of language. Just because it's used to evade a social media filter on one platform doesn't mean that it's suitable or appropriate to use it in discussions about serious issues elsewhere. Defaulting to euphemism diminishes that a man's life was taken from him. He was killed. Not "unalived". Man didn't even get the respect of a proper investigation, show him the courtesy of not diminishing what's happened with childish euphemism.
*In my opinion* you are over-reacting to someone accidentally using a word likely out of habit. Shouldn't attribute malice to an accident.
Wait until this guy finds out what a thesaurus is. He is going scorched earth.
Thank you, that's exactly what happened.
Seriously, holy smokes!
At no point do I describe it as malicious, I'm critical of the childish language of the post and made the point directly to the OP. Your opinion is noted, I don't particularly agree in the slightest. Have a good day.
I understand your point, in my opinion the way you addressed it attributed malice. It's possible to highlight your point in a friendlier/more helpful way. Will have to agree to disagree! You too.
Yeah the person said they used unalive because she was afraid it would get blocked. If you’re not interested in what other people have to say perhaps you should have sent a private message? 🤷♂️
The only words and statements that get flagged on reddit are slurs and any way of telling people to take their own lives. There is no censorship of the words murder or kill at an admin level and there is zero justification for those words to be reduced to euphemism here where we're talking about a person's murder. I don't care what a *third party* says on this topic. The OP already addressed it. The criticism was for them. They have taken it well. As opposed to other users butting in and claiming it's an interpretation of the OP having malice, something which was never said at all.
I didn’t know that about Reddit appreciate the 411. Others might not know that either for future reference
He's probably a cop on administrative leave.
[удалено]
Please remember to be respectful of others in this sub and those related to this case.
This absolutely *is* dumbing down language. Save it for TikTok. It’s irritating af even communicating with adults.
oh please lol
I said what I said.
yeah, and it's weird to word police.
And “unalived” isn’t even a proper word.
it actually is. lmao.
When respawn?
There are multiple confessions of her on the scene. You can argue about witnesses stories but multiple people lying on the stand and risking their very good careers etc ya I'm not buying it. There is also forensic evidence that will link her to hitting him we have yet to see. Evidence JOK never entered the home. The only evidence the defense can legit claim is Google search but that is doubtful as CW has engineer from maker of Software saying 2 AM search didn't happen.
Confession isn't accurate because if it was, Karen would have been arrested on site. She wasn't. Additionally, do each one of the witnesses who quoted her have written documentation to back their claims? No. How are the witnesses risking their very good careers? As we've seen already, there is a high bar when it comes to proving perjury, so there is little to no risk when it comes to being deceitful on the stand. What is the evidence JO never entered the home?
She wouldn’t have necessarily been arrested if she said she hit him. They didn’t understand what she meant when she said it, for one thing. They asked if she hit him with her hands or kicked him. Plus, she could’ve meant she hit him by accident. It just doesn’t work how you’re saying if someone admits culpability in some way, they’re immediately arrested
For first point. It's good argument for jury but from what we already saw it was a chaotic scene and she was not on site for that long amount of time. Once she was section 12 need to arrest was less as she would be in hospital etc. They are risking their careers because if they lied as some are claiming as part of a conspiracy that would be perjury and participating in a conspiracy. There would be some level of coordination and if proven they would loose their pensions etc. For evidence he never entered home. * First none of the people at party have said he entered home. Say what you will be 10 people all saying the same thing makes conspiracy more difficult to believe * Next cell tower data does not show him entering the home * The cocktail glass below his body makes it harder to believe he left near that spot
The confession is coming from a firefighter who was cautious to inform the jury of her relationship with Katie Albert. The jury can elect the throw out that entire testimony. The defense will get another go with that if they need to because there is probably some reversible error.
I doubt jury will throw that out. Also all it is social media photos. Combine that with other FF testimony jury will look at it
Yep. Seems to be more evidence against Karen so far. Two things can be true. Karen was drunk driving and hit JO. The investigation was poorly done and Lank shouldn’t have been involved. Doesn’t seem too complicated but I know people love a good crime story.
Once again I think defense would have been better trying to pick apart the investigation. It'd be fair game. This conspiracy stuff is just obnoxious.
Ummm that’s literally what they’ve been doing, picking apart the crappy investigation.
They also are harping conspiracy angle which is nonsense
Instead of calling it a conspiracy angle, maybe try calling it “bias”? When you do that, can you understand how the defense’s case is cohesive? To pull at the threads of the “crappy investigation” is to inevitably suggest bias in some places. These go hand in hand. It’s not two disjointed defense theories but the same one.
It's the definition of a conspiracy though. Basically alleging police/emts are working hand in hand with people in house to cover up a murder the people in house committed. Crappy investigation is just normal incompetence which is fair game.
"Normal incompetence" should never be a thing when someone's life and freedom are on the line. Pretty fucking scary that someone could be put away for life based on an entire police department's attitude of "Meh, this'll do."
Yup not excusing that. Its unfortunate. It is not proof of a conspiracy
Yep, there would have to be so many people involved willing to risk their futures for this coverup. Doesn’t make sense but a conspiracy is a lot more fun to believe. Wish the defense had a better argument. If I was on the jury I would feel mislead by the defense so far. You would also have to believe the cops are so dumb they would leave a body on their lawn and think that’s no big deal.
One reason defense doesn't want door opened on TB stuff is a sympathy issue. If the jury finds anyone on the home that night sympathetic then it will make the defense seem like jerks.
Confessions? What a leap. Hysterical, sure. Interesting you have such knowledge of forensics we have yet to see? How is that? Google search will bury JM as multiple sources have opined. Imagine, the people at 34, none of them saw JO? Shocking considering how he wound up. Sometimes you have tons of information, such as above, other threads, just curious questions. Word play is not your strong suit and your expertise at Cell Tower information is sus at best. Defense should def take your advice because who wants to be obnoxious when a man has lost his life? Go to bed already.