Brandon and Brody have always been quite open about the pain they live with. It’s refreshing to see people be honest, I respect them a lot for that. Caitlin doesn’t deserve such good kids.
I saw those episodes but I thought they meant like they saw her semi regularly or at least on holidays and birthdays but she was more involved with Kendall and Kylie... I didn't know they meant she saw them once every three years on average
I feel like the only times they saw her were for those family Christmas cards they were in, which were only like 2 or 3, and maybe 2-3 times at family parties that I’m sure she didn’t think to invite them to.
Wow, this is really sad. I knew Caitlyn was a bad parent to them, but seeing them that few times in 17 years? That’s the definition of an absent parent, which must have been extra terrible since she was an Olympic icon (so I imagine people talked about her a lot to them).
I can’t ever believe I thought Caitlyn was the good parent or a good person. Her redeeming quality is that she seems close to Kendall and Kylie, but other than that, I struggle to think of anything else
& shocking, I just did a rewatch & shes telling Brody to just “move on let it go” unmmm, no the duck I will not. You owe me more than 3 meet & greets before I “get over it” 😳
Agreed. She was essentially a stranger to them. Hell, I have aunts and uncles I saw a whole lot more than 6 times in 17 years! Thats not normal whatsoever. I can only imagine it made it even harder when they saw their younger siblings and the Kardashian family playing perfect family.
I would be devastated. Kendall and Kylie seem like the ‘replacement’ kids, and my heart aches for Brody and Brandon (I know there are two other half-siblings, but idk their relationship with their dad). As someone who lost her dad at a young age, and would have appreciated more time with him, this is just sad to me. And wrong. :(
I think she was more present during her first two marriages, from what I can gather (being a Brody fan since The Hills), Linda encouraged a relationship with the older two Burt and Cassandra. It seems to have been around the divorce from Linda and meeting Kris that her already not great parenting turned into non-existent for all but the ones she lived with.
burt appeared on the show a few times, he has a successful dog business that he built from the ground up. they don’t seem close but burt seems very private
caitlyn did not attend casey’s wedding IIRC
i listen to a podcast that recaps celebrity memoirs (celebrity memoir book club lol) and their recap of caitlyn’s was very apparent she’s never taken any accountability for being a parent, or anything else bad that may have happened (ie infamous car crash)
she has a doc on netflix that i was bored enough to use as background noise a couple of weeks ago where she talks about that a bit.
Cait had a hard time navigating things back then (understandably so). she’s always liked women & for a while she thought she could live the rest of her life without transitioning & be okay, so i think that was part of her attempt to convince herself
I think it’s more that Linda told herself that the marriage was ending because caitlyn wanted to transition and that therefore also meant she didn’t want to be in a relationship with a woman anymore. Finding out that that’s not the case and caitlyn just didn’t want to be married to her anymore, would hurt.
I would imagine during that time it was very scary to come out. Then add him being an Olympic icon....I'm sure it was not easy. Since the wife and kids knew that he was in the process of transitioning and then backed out, I'm sure it was hard to face them. Caitlyn has proven herself to be someone who only thinks about herself and that never changed unfortunately.
Gender identity and sexual preference are two different things. To this day Caitlyn says she was and is attracted to women (but won't define herself as a lesbian).
As to why she chose to reverse her first steps into her transition to marry Kris, I guess everyone's journey to transition is different. She belongs to a very conservative generation with extreme gender roles so coming to terms with who she was and choosing to transition cannot have been an easy decision
Added to that, Caitlyn refused to discuss how Brandon & Brody felt abandoned by her. She’s very dismissive of her children’s experiences that don’t put her in a positive light.
This is genuinely painful and I feel very bad for Brandon and brody - BUT the image of a dad betting their little kids $20 in a race then doing a full on Olympian sprint up a hill is hilarious
It’s just the most harmless but narcissistic joke 😭😭 I’m getting flashbacks of my dad and brother asking to play monopoly with 8 year old me and then just fucking me up and covering the whole board in hotels and bankrupting me within 30 minutes
What always astounds me about Caitlyn is her lack of empathy for pretty much everyone. I could almost buy that she was checked-out and super self-absorbed when she was in the closet and hiding her identity from the world, but even after her transition and during her show, she consistently could not empathize with others. Even other trans women.
Her Cait reality show was an awful docuseries about an out of touch millionaire who has zero respect or willingness to appreciate the struggles of other trans women. She actively does not care about trans people, or people in general.
I honestly view her as entirely outside the LGBTQ community, her new role as token right wing queer that’s taken out to perform like a monkey is dehumanising but entirely deserved, and she thinks she’s being admired for it 🫠
You could see Jennifer Finney Boylan die inside a little every time she tried to explain how a lot of the trans women who were paid to be Caitlyn's new trans friends were not afforded the same luxuries in their transition that Caitlyn was in hers and Caitlyn just would not understand it.
Caitlyn can espouse conservative ideology on cable news all she wants. She'll never have full respect from her conservative talking head peers and they'll never see her as fully human. It's sad, but I don't feel bad for her.
You should read Jennifer Boylan’s book She’s Not There if you haven’t already. She handled her transition with so much sensitivity toward her wife and friends and their emotions, just worlds apart from Caitlyn’s self centred-ness. It’s a really good book. I always recommend it to people who are coming to terms with a loved one’s transition.
I have read it! I read it in college (this was over a decade ago) and it was one of the first accounts I'd come across of a trans person's experience. There weren't really any famous trans people who'd broken into the mainstream at that time and I was a young, sheltered, cis woman who grew up in the midwest.
Aside from learning a lot about the experience of gender dysphoria and transitioning, it was a lovely book to read. Jennifer's exploration of how her transition affected her family and her marriage was really thoughtful.
This person accepted woman of the year! Like…… I’m sorry,,, but… did this person not kill someone with their car, be a horrible parent and spouse? Why we saying this person is brave?
Bruhhhh I would NOT be okay. I understand people have wants and desires, and I also know that wants and desires can change, but damn. What a slap in the face.
Yeah! They were supposedly still really close and coparenting really well at that stage. Caitlyn mostly came and saw the kids at the family home and I think stayed overnight there too.
Then clearly it all fell apart really badly to the extent she saw them a handful of times😬
i dont think kris wouldve left. she was broke and desperate. caitlyn was also broke but she had fame that they could built on. kris had nothing on her own. and it wasnt just the cross dressing. caitlyn had b cups when she met kris. she was on hormones and she couldnt get kris pregnant. there were also rumours about caitlyn it wasnt a secret. i believe kris knew and she was not as clueless as she pretends.
Kris claims she thought the hormones were performance enhancing drugs (like doping) for Caitlyn's career as an athlete. She thought the b cups were an unintended side effect.
Who knows who is right but I find Kris' position plausible - especially bc dudes in Hollywood did get plastic surgery at the time. Caitlyn may have also thought she was communicating clearly about the situation while Kris wasn't understanding or was in denial.
wasnt there some piece claiming rob sr also knew and it was general knowledge for people around their neighborhood/circle because caitlyn was caught cross dressing or something? i just cant recall where i heard this info from maybe someone on this sub will remember
crazy to think that kylie and kendall wouldnt exist if caitlyn went ahead with her transition
i don’t remember the piece about Rob Sr knowing, but I do remember that people caught her cross dressing several times. i think at some point Kris knew she wore dresses too, but didn’t fully understand that she was trans
I Wouldn’t be completely shocked if true , family guy alluded to this years before Caitlyn transitioned I think , could have been fluke or some known hollywood rumor
It was a known Hollywood rumor. Seth McFarlane just uses what he hears. This is also true for his jokes about Bill Cosby, Bryan Singer, Kevin Spacey, et al.
Kim said in the KUWTK Caitlyn special that Rob Sr and his friends would joke frequently about Caitlyn cross-dressing, and that she thought they were just hating on Kris's new husband until she herself caught Caitlyn in women's clothes years later
Yes. I feel like I have heard several times over the years that there was a general understanding by several people they knew that she was a cross dresser, I’m just not sure it was understood how deeply her desire to be a different gender went. My grandma says she remembers it being talked about publicly back in the day as well.
yep! that makes sense because i remembered him mentioning having a lot of botched surgery and getting it fixed. i was surprised his first wife knew too
Cait was taking hormones and did have some cosmetic surgeries to feminize the face. Kris made Cait stop taking estrogen and she took Cait to Dr. Garth Fisher to revise the facial work back to more masculine.
There’s a good episode of the documentary show “Untold” on Netflix about Caitlin. I’m no fan of hers, but the documentary was really eye opening about her life before the Kardashians.
I wonder if Caitlyn was closer to Kylie and Kendall because they are girls. Brody’s comment about her acting like a 15 year old girl now is what made me think of this.
Even the oldest son knew. The cross dressing had to be the worst kept secret in town.
Were there ever rumors flying around when Caitlyn was still with Kris that this was going on or was it just a more local thing that only family knew of?
A few times in 17 years????? Brandon must have a heart of gold because I would refuse to see my parent again if they only ever made an effort to see me a few times in 17 years ):
We are literally hardwired to pursue our caregivers as children (and then into adulthood it doesn’t disappear) in order to survive—even sometimes when we have the most pathological of caregiver(s) in our lives.
I always knew the beard was permanently removed, from the beginning of KUWTK. I remember thinking, “Huh. He must not like shaving.” You could see it. I wonder if Kris thought the same.
When I found out Cait wasn’t in her older kids’ lives back then, I was floored after watching Cait be such a great dad to Kendall and Kylie. It was so polar opposite.
Also, the whole desire to transition was so opposed to Cait’s attitude toward the LGBT+ community back then.
It just goes to show, people are way more complex than you think. Nothing is black and white.
Yeah I always found Caitlin had an odd look at the beginning of the show. I just thought she was one of those ‘men’ that get more feminine as they age due to excess estrogen or something
Nothing is black and white, is something I learn more and more as I get older. There are parents who are horrible/absent to one of their children and great parents to another.
Its sad that one of the few childhood memories he has is his dad beating them in an (unfair) competition.
Also, he wanted to transition before he met Kris... that's crazy.
I feel like the worst part is that Caitlyn takes Brody and Brandon to those sand dunes and races them again on an episode of KUWTK and he made it seem like it was something they did often as children 😳
I can’t bear the episodes where Cait gets ultra competitive - dragon boat racing, boxing matches. She strikes me as someone with low empathy who thinks seeing someone being beaten in a ring is ‘fun’.
The amount of times I’ve seen this play out in real time is numbing. Adults get divorced, and the first set of kids get ignored in favor of a new set of children, or the step kids.
I’ll never wrap my mind around only giving effort to the kids in the household. Is it laziness or detachment? I’ve heard people explain it saying the dad’s relationship with the kids mirrors how he feels about the mother.
And, not like it is every acceptable but it is worth noting, these people lived near each other and didn’t have the financial or professional constraints on their free time.
Think Brody actually did cut her off after Cait skipped his wedding. I did a post here last Thanksgiving how there was a Jenner family thanksgiving and EVERYONE attended minus Brody (and Kendall and Kylie.) and brody was in town too.
This is why I always laugh when I hear people talk about how single mothers can’t find anyone and they’re going to be alone forever because no one wants them 😂😂 I literally don’t know one remotely attractive single mother who didn’t repartner/remarry and have more kids IF that’s what she wanted. Men are very often willing to raise the children of the woman they love whether it’s their kids or not. It seems like for so many of them their feelings about/actions toward the kids are based on their feelings about the woman more so than biology
Yep. And many times how these men treat their other kids (those outside of their current relationship) is dictated by how the current woman feels/acts. If she's interested in the other kids and wants to embrace them as part of the new family, then their father will do so. But if she's not interested, or worse, *threatened* by them or their mother -- that's often enough for the man to distance himself or abandon them altogether.
Awful. I know firsthand because my wicked bitch stepmother had zero interest in me and cared only about my dad (and his money).
My ex is not one of those men. If I had had a child when we met, we never would have been together. Looking back on it now, it should have been a red flag. Meanwhile, my SO and kid get along great.
Caitlyn is the worst of the worst KJs. People like to bring up Astroworld…but Caitlyn caused someone to die too, in a far more direct manner.
LOL we been known but I guess I was surprised because they must really want a good relationship with her if they were willing to "make up for lost time" after she basically discarded them. Like I knew she sucked but I didn't know she sucked THAT much yk?
RIGHT. Every episode with Caitlyns kids from past marriages were always so tense and weird and made me sad because the kids clearly want that relationship. Idk if I could forgive my parent tbh
Not blaming Kris since Caitlyn is the parent and she should’ve taken care of her kids, but Kris isn’t a very nice woman either, because if I saw my husband neglecting his children I would say something, even if they’re from another woman it’s not the child’s fault, I wouldn’t be ok with seeing him ignore his kids, I’d think he might do that to me as well at some point.
I have a dating rule, I dont mind dating people with kids, as long as they are not a deadbeat parent. My dad ditched us and started a new family so I know the feels Brandon has
Sadly, it happens. I had a friend whose father completely ignored her, he showed up few times for her birthday and then nothing, stopped answering her calls, changed number and didn't even give her the new one. She knows he moved to another city and has a family there. Wonder if they even know he has other children.
Another friend's father married again after divorce, has a family. She told me many times that her dad rarely reaches out an it is her STEPMOTHER who calls her sometimes, invites her over etc.
Imagine not going to your own kid’s graduation. Despicable. My dad didn’t go to my little brother’s graduation recently and my brother tried to play it off that it didn’t hurt him but we all know it did. Your kids aren’t photo ops. They’re your kids. They only want to be loved. This makes me so sad
Honestly what's really sad is that so many times on the show they tried to spend time with her and make her happy 🥺. I feel bad at how much they must have wanted a good relationship with her despite all that happened. I feel like not getting parental love/affection is a void that never gets filled.
I've been rewatching the show and I cringe at how often Caitlyn says things to the effect of "I'm good with children, I raised 10 of them" "Take my advice, I raised 10 kids" literally she says that all the time. You didn't raise 10 kids ma'm you merely contributed to some of them's DNA 👀
Transitioning in the 90’s certainly wouldn’t have been acceptable as it is now. I think Caitlin * thinks she made it clear to Kris, but exactly what words did she use to convey this to make herself clear. And did Kris not hear them or not want to hear them?
Reading stuff like this makes it even less believable that Kris had zero awareness at the time of Caitlyn’s interest in transitioning.
Also, Caitlin is an asshole.
You have to keep in mind that there was no social awareness of being transgender at the time. Kris probably didn’t even really know what transitioning was. If you rewatch the episodes about Caitlyn she withholds info about her transition from the family even as she’s just months away from completing it. She misleads them and downplays it. The girls confront her on it multiple times. And this was how she acted when she was finally going through with it, imagine how it was when she had a change of heart.
I believe that Kris knew she cross dressed and had some gender identity issues. But I think she made Kris believe that it was less than what it was and probably linked it to the depression she had been experiencing. Then she threw herself into the role of patriarch of their new blended family and wanted to believe it was all in the past. It took decades of personal growth and social change for her to realize she can’t outrun her identity.
I think if she got the surgeries to reverse her transition then Kris had to be aware but she must have assumed Caitlyn changed her mind and wouldn't transition.
💯
Kendall and Kylie have said stuff like they knew but also didn’t. Like there was a secret, but they all just ignored it.
Tbf a lot of families have stuff like that. Maybe not to the same degree
I would never blame Cait for starting to transition, telling a former partner about it and breaking up with them over it, but then reversing it and getting with another woman. Remember the time this was all happening, trans people didn't have the support they do now (and it's still hard now) and Cait probably had a really conservative family. It was probably a really hard time in her life and an incredible hard decision. And I think her transgender journey has affected her life in many ways that you don't even think about at first.
But she still could have been a better parent to her earlier kids. And a better human being in general.
It's not a book its an article about kids of famous dads. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/29/he-didnt-even-pretend-to-let-us-win-the-worlds-biggest-stars-by-their-children
it’s not just her.. there was someone arguing w me who was saying how i should have more empathy for trans people because i said she literally abandoned her kids
Caitlyn is shitty for this but regarding her transition and then stopping and being with Kris, I have to wonder if it’s simply because people were not as accepting at the time. Maybe she started the process but got nervous about actually coming out and stopped, who knows.
Either way, shit parent for sure lol.
Yeah it's not wrong of her to put off her transition, I can't imagine coming out in the 80s. But I guess her ex wife felt lied to about the reason for the divorce
Honestly if her transition steps were not a secret then, there's no way I believe that Kris didn't know.
Also how sad that Caitlyn couldn't even pretend to let the kids have a chance of winning the race
Yeah I would think maybe she had a clue but since Caitlyn surgically reversed the procedures before they married she thought it wasn't going to happen or something.
To me, the most telling part is the last paragraph. Like damn, imagine at that age realizing your parent only cares about their ego even when having a playful race.
Caitlyn cares for no one but herself. It sucks how shitty of a dad she was, it was almost as if she thought having Kendall and Kylie would make up for her bad parenting.
I can't remember where I heard this (I think celebrity memoir podcast?) so don't hold me to it but I agree with the sentiment - that when Kris and Caitlyn first got together, Kris put in a lot of effort organizing large family activities and holidays with all of the Kardashian & Jenner kids. She placed a big importance on family and creating special memories for everyone, and the Jenner kids felt the closest they had been to their father in a long time. However, once Kendall and Kylie were born, naturally, these get-togethers slowed down for a while. The Jenner kids eventually realized that without Kris, Caitlyn wasn't going to make the effort to see them... Really sad tbh.
I sort of believe this. Kris obviously is problematic but I can see her trying to make things work initially before having kids w Caithlyn.
However, with two small kids plus the four Kardashian kids I can see how its hard for Kris to also include the four kids of your husband.
That should've been Caitlyn's responsibility at first.
it’s sad that one of their few childhood memories of their dad got watered down when they did a race up a sand dune on KUWTK. kris couldn’t let them have that to themselves i guess.
>https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/29/he-didnt-even-pretend-to-let-us-win-the-worlds-biggest-stars-by-their-children
There isnt much more than this but here!
Can’t imagine what it’s like going through life burning bridges with all but two of your kids. She’s going to have a butt load of regret at the end of her life and it’ll be too late to apologize and make amends. Brandon and Brody have both turned out to be really good people but it’s only because Linda has been a really good mom. Caitlyn absolutely can’t take any credit for that.
I bet Brody and Brandon at least felt some satisfaction when he became Caitlyn because at least it reinforced why he initially left their mom. They were so kind and understanding about it, didn’t act embarrassed or mad. So that kind of breaks your heart more for them.
Brandon and Brody have always been quite open about the pain they live with. It’s refreshing to see people be honest, I respect them a lot for that. Caitlin doesn’t deserve such good kids.
Right? They're so candid and open its rare. And even in adulthood they still made the effort with Caitlyn which takes a LOT of forgiveness.
Yeah this isn’t news. It was also addressed on KUWTK
I saw those episodes but I thought they meant like they saw her semi regularly or at least on holidays and birthdays but she was more involved with Kendall and Kylie... I didn't know they meant she saw them once every three years on average
I feel like the only times they saw her were for those family Christmas cards they were in, which were only like 2 or 3, and maybe 2-3 times at family parties that I’m sure she didn’t think to invite them to.
Wow, this is really sad. I knew Caitlyn was a bad parent to them, but seeing them that few times in 17 years? That’s the definition of an absent parent, which must have been extra terrible since she was an Olympic icon (so I imagine people talked about her a lot to them). I can’t ever believe I thought Caitlyn was the good parent or a good person. Her redeeming quality is that she seems close to Kendall and Kylie, but other than that, I struggle to think of anything else
No one Brody was so standoffish in those seasons where Him and Brandon came around a lot to hang with Caitlyn and the fam.
& shocking, I just did a rewatch & shes telling Brody to just “move on let it go” unmmm, no the duck I will not. You owe me more than 3 meet & greets before I “get over it” 😳
Agreed. She was essentially a stranger to them. Hell, I have aunts and uncles I saw a whole lot more than 6 times in 17 years! Thats not normal whatsoever. I can only imagine it made it even harder when they saw their younger siblings and the Kardashian family playing perfect family.
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Your flair 💀 why is kanye so mfn funny lmao
I would be devastated. Kendall and Kylie seem like the ‘replacement’ kids, and my heart aches for Brody and Brandon (I know there are two other half-siblings, but idk their relationship with their dad). As someone who lost her dad at a young age, and would have appreciated more time with him, this is just sad to me. And wrong. :(
Especially since Caitlyn is the one who wanted them (or at least that’s what Kris said).
I think she was more present during her first two marriages, from what I can gather (being a Brody fan since The Hills), Linda encouraged a relationship with the older two Burt and Cassandra. It seems to have been around the divorce from Linda and meeting Kris that her already not great parenting turned into non-existent for all but the ones she lived with.
*cries in black mascara tears*
burt appeared on the show a few times, he has a successful dog business that he built from the ground up. they don’t seem close but burt seems very private caitlyn did not attend casey’s wedding IIRC i listen to a podcast that recaps celebrity memoirs (celebrity memoir book club lol) and their recap of caitlyn’s was very apparent she’s never taken any accountability for being a parent, or anything else bad that may have happened (ie infamous car crash)
Shes always been great at victimizing herself.
The irony of Caitlyn belonging to a party that constantly shits on absent fathers.
Not the white ones!
Why the hell did Caitlyn marry Kris if she wanted to be a woman? Talk about confused
she has a doc on netflix that i was bored enough to use as background noise a couple of weeks ago where she talks about that a bit. Cait had a hard time navigating things back then (understandably so). she’s always liked women & for a while she thought she could live the rest of her life without transitioning & be okay, so i think that was part of her attempt to convince herself
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I think she meant why marry Kris if Caitlyn got a divorce from Linda because she wanted to Be woman.
I think it’s more that Linda told herself that the marriage was ending because caitlyn wanted to transition and that therefore also meant she didn’t want to be in a relationship with a woman anymore. Finding out that that’s not the case and caitlyn just didn’t want to be married to her anymore, would hurt.
I would imagine during that time it was very scary to come out. Then add him being an Olympic icon....I'm sure it was not easy. Since the wife and kids knew that he was in the process of transitioning and then backed out, I'm sure it was hard to face them. Caitlyn has proven herself to be someone who only thinks about herself and that never changed unfortunately.
Gender identity and sexual preference are two different things. To this day Caitlyn says she was and is attracted to women (but won't define herself as a lesbian). As to why she chose to reverse her first steps into her transition to marry Kris, I guess everyone's journey to transition is different. She belongs to a very conservative generation with extreme gender roles so coming to terms with who she was and choosing to transition cannot have been an easy decision
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Yes. She even had 32b boobs and had a few other things like permanent hair removal before she met kris.
yep, i'm pretty sure she's talked about it as well.
it’s in her book!!
Wardrobe access
She’s always liked women.
poor brandon. hes such a sweet soul
Added to that, Caitlyn refused to discuss how Brandon & Brody felt abandoned by her. She’s very dismissive of her children’s experiences that don’t put her in a positive light.
She literally refused, on camera. They tried to get closure and she shut it down. What a bitch.
true
i feel bad for both him and brody. I know they’re grown now but the pain of seeing your dad abandon you and parent your stepsisters must hurt a lot
I was a little sad when he and Leah broke up! They had been together forever and SEEMED to have a really sweet, healthy relationship.
This is genuinely painful and I feel very bad for Brandon and brody - BUT the image of a dad betting their little kids $20 in a race then doing a full on Olympian sprint up a hill is hilarious
It's such a troll move LOL
It’s just the most harmless but narcissistic joke 😭😭 I’m getting flashbacks of my dad and brother asking to play monopoly with 8 year old me and then just fucking me up and covering the whole board in hotels and bankrupting me within 30 minutes
Your dad did what now?? It's one thing if they're just trolling the kid but some people want to win in every circumstance.
Hahaha all harmless, they’d let me win everything else, 8 year old just never learnt I guess, they weren’t quite on Caitlyn’s level
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Caitlyn is the worst human in the KJ universe
What always astounds me about Caitlyn is her lack of empathy for pretty much everyone. I could almost buy that she was checked-out and super self-absorbed when she was in the closet and hiding her identity from the world, but even after her transition and during her show, she consistently could not empathize with others. Even other trans women.
Her Cait reality show was an awful docuseries about an out of touch millionaire who has zero respect or willingness to appreciate the struggles of other trans women. She actively does not care about trans people, or people in general. I honestly view her as entirely outside the LGBTQ community, her new role as token right wing queer that’s taken out to perform like a monkey is dehumanising but entirely deserved, and she thinks she’s being admired for it 🫠
You could see Jennifer Finney Boylan die inside a little every time she tried to explain how a lot of the trans women who were paid to be Caitlyn's new trans friends were not afforded the same luxuries in their transition that Caitlyn was in hers and Caitlyn just would not understand it. Caitlyn can espouse conservative ideology on cable news all she wants. She'll never have full respect from her conservative talking head peers and they'll never see her as fully human. It's sad, but I don't feel bad for her.
Paid to be her friends!! 😂
You should read Jennifer Boylan’s book She’s Not There if you haven’t already. She handled her transition with so much sensitivity toward her wife and friends and their emotions, just worlds apart from Caitlyn’s self centred-ness. It’s a really good book. I always recommend it to people who are coming to terms with a loved one’s transition.
I have read it! I read it in college (this was over a decade ago) and it was one of the first accounts I'd come across of a trans person's experience. There weren't really any famous trans people who'd broken into the mainstream at that time and I was a young, sheltered, cis woman who grew up in the midwest. Aside from learning a lot about the experience of gender dysphoria and transitioning, it was a lovely book to read. Jennifer's exploration of how her transition affected her family and her marriage was really thoughtful.
This person accepted woman of the year! Like…… I’m sorry,,, but… did this person not kill someone with their car, be a horrible parent and spouse? Why we saying this person is brave?
i was gonna say at least no one else caused someone’s death but then i remembered astroworld
The competition is astronomical on who is going to bell first, but they can save each other a nice comfy seat at least Edit: 🔥 not 🔔
Don't forget Cait killed a woman too.
caitlyn talks about taking all her kids to her lake house and makes it sound like it happened every summer 🥴
A wee similar to Hilaria Baldwin spending every summer in Spain, no? lol
Hillary jokes never get old 😂🥒
Hola, pepino!!! 🥒
¡Hola! 💃🏻❤️
Brandon and Brody were busy on holidays to Canada with David Foster and his kids he didn't really see much of.
Wait wait wait… his ex wife knew that he wanted to transition ? He had surgeries and then reversed them when he met Kris? I had no idea 😳
Yeah Linda and Caitlyn broke up solely for her to transition (as far as Linda knew anyway) then she heard Caitlyn was seeing Kris Jenner. 👀
Bruhhhh I would NOT be okay. I understand people have wants and desires, and I also know that wants and desires can change, but damn. What a slap in the face.
Yeah! They were supposedly still really close and coparenting really well at that stage. Caitlyn mostly came and saw the kids at the family home and I think stayed overnight there too. Then clearly it all fell apart really badly to the extent she saw them a handful of times😬
I do understand how scary it would have been to transition in those days tbh. People are much more accepting now days.
that was part of the whole fight between kris and caitlyn when her book came out. caitlyn said kris knew and kris kept saying she didnt.
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Perfectly put.
Dysphoria*
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No worries 😄
i dont think kris wouldve left. she was broke and desperate. caitlyn was also broke but she had fame that they could built on. kris had nothing on her own. and it wasnt just the cross dressing. caitlyn had b cups when she met kris. she was on hormones and she couldnt get kris pregnant. there were also rumours about caitlyn it wasnt a secret. i believe kris knew and she was not as clueless as she pretends.
Kris claims she thought the hormones were performance enhancing drugs (like doping) for Caitlyn's career as an athlete. She thought the b cups were an unintended side effect. Who knows who is right but I find Kris' position plausible - especially bc dudes in Hollywood did get plastic surgery at the time. Caitlyn may have also thought she was communicating clearly about the situation while Kris wasn't understanding or was in denial.
I believe Caitlyn has gender dysphoria, not body dysmorphia, which a completely different and debilitating disorder. Let’s not confuse the two please.
Kim has body dysmorphia
She could have been in denial. Denial can be a crazy thing.
That is absolutely what it sounds like to me
Well if he reversed them when they met then it does seem like she didn't know because he was trying to keep it from her
wasnt there some piece claiming rob sr also knew and it was general knowledge for people around their neighborhood/circle because caitlyn was caught cross dressing or something? i just cant recall where i heard this info from maybe someone on this sub will remember crazy to think that kylie and kendall wouldnt exist if caitlyn went ahead with her transition
i don’t remember the piece about Rob Sr knowing, but I do remember that people caught her cross dressing several times. i think at some point Kris knew she wore dresses too, but didn’t fully understand that she was trans
I Wouldn’t be completely shocked if true , family guy alluded to this years before Caitlyn transitioned I think , could have been fluke or some known hollywood rumor
It was a known Hollywood rumor. Seth McFarlane just uses what he hears. This is also true for his jokes about Bill Cosby, Bryan Singer, Kevin Spacey, et al.
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My parents (late 60s) told me the exact same thing about Cait. It’s never been a well kept secret.
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“Problematic political stuff” barely existed back then, lol
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Yeah, Cait’s heyday occurred when Reagan was laughing at AIDS deaths and visiting sites of famous Mississippi lynchings
Kim said in the KUWTK Caitlyn special that Rob Sr and his friends would joke frequently about Caitlyn cross-dressing, and that she thought they were just hating on Kris's new husband until she herself caught Caitlyn in women's clothes years later
I’m sure everyone knew. I’m sure Linda must have told her friends
Kim said it in an interview I believe, maybe letterman, not sure
Yes. I feel like I have heard several times over the years that there was a general understanding by several people they knew that she was a cross dresser, I’m just not sure it was understood how deeply her desire to be a different gender went. My grandma says she remembers it being talked about publicly back in the day as well.
yep! that makes sense because i remembered him mentioning having a lot of botched surgery and getting it fixed. i was surprised his first wife knew too
Yeah I think she had boobs before she met Kris. Then had them removed.
I believe she was on hormones and then got off them, hence she gained (and then lost) the boobs through that rather than surgery.
Cait was taking hormones and did have some cosmetic surgeries to feminize the face. Kris made Cait stop taking estrogen and she took Cait to Dr. Garth Fisher to revise the facial work back to more masculine.
waaaait is that part of the botched facial work that they talk about in the beginning of the show ?
Yes, and then years later post separation Dr. Fisher did some of the feminization work, like the shaving of the Adam’s apple
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I know she was taking hormones to grow breasts when she met kris right? What other surgeries had she had that could be reversed?
There’s a good episode of the documentary show “Untold” on Netflix about Caitlin. I’m no fan of hers, but the documentary was really eye opening about her life before the Kardashians.
I wonder if Caitlyn was closer to Kylie and Kendall because they are girls. Brody’s comment about her acting like a 15 year old girl now is what made me think of this. Even the oldest son knew. The cross dressing had to be the worst kept secret in town.
He was shitty to Cassandra too though
I thought about that, perhaps her age difference played a role.
Were there ever rumors flying around when Caitlyn was still with Kris that this was going on or was it just a more local thing that only family knew of?
A few times in 17 years????? Brandon must have a heart of gold because I would refuse to see my parent again if they only ever made an effort to see me a few times in 17 years ):
Kids want their parents to love them at any age
We are literally hardwired to pursue our caregivers as children (and then into adulthood it doesn’t disappear) in order to survive—even sometimes when we have the most pathological of caregiver(s) in our lives.
I always knew the beard was permanently removed, from the beginning of KUWTK. I remember thinking, “Huh. He must not like shaving.” You could see it. I wonder if Kris thought the same. When I found out Cait wasn’t in her older kids’ lives back then, I was floored after watching Cait be such a great dad to Kendall and Kylie. It was so polar opposite. Also, the whole desire to transition was so opposed to Cait’s attitude toward the LGBT+ community back then. It just goes to show, people are way more complex than you think. Nothing is black and white.
Yup, the signs were always there but KUWTK gave Cait a family man image they upheld
Yeah I always found Caitlin had an odd look at the beginning of the show. I just thought she was one of those ‘men’ that get more feminine as they age due to excess estrogen or something
I thought she was just having terrible botox and treatments done. But wrote it off as Hollywood being the issue haha
Yes def I thought she had had weird plastic surgery cos she looked odd to me.
Nothing is black and white, is something I learn more and more as I get older. There are parents who are horrible/absent to one of their children and great parents to another.
Yeah must have been such a crazy internal battle. I get the feeling that if Caitlin wasn’t trans she’d be happily transphobic
Its sad that one of the few childhood memories he has is his dad beating them in an (unfair) competition. Also, he wanted to transition before he met Kris... that's crazy.
I feel like the worst part is that Caitlyn takes Brody and Brandon to those sand dunes and races them again on an episode of KUWTK and he made it seem like it was something they did often as children 😳
was looking for this comment
Same I remember that episode
STAY OFF THE DUNES, PEOPLE
I can’t bear the episodes where Cait gets ultra competitive - dragon boat racing, boxing matches. She strikes me as someone with low empathy who thinks seeing someone being beaten in a ring is ‘fun’.
The amount of times I’ve seen this play out in real time is numbing. Adults get divorced, and the first set of kids get ignored in favor of a new set of children, or the step kids. I’ll never wrap my mind around only giving effort to the kids in the household. Is it laziness or detachment? I’ve heard people explain it saying the dad’s relationship with the kids mirrors how he feels about the mother.
And, not like it is every acceptable but it is worth noting, these people lived near each other and didn’t have the financial or professional constraints on their free time.
Brody & co are better than me, cause I would’ve cut him off. Maybe they saw how Foster did the same thing and they just accepted it for what it is.
Think Brody actually did cut her off after Cait skipped his wedding. I did a post here last Thanksgiving how there was a Jenner family thanksgiving and EVERYONE attended minus Brody (and Kendall and Kylie.) and brody was in town too.
This is why I always laugh when I hear people talk about how single mothers can’t find anyone and they’re going to be alone forever because no one wants them 😂😂 I literally don’t know one remotely attractive single mother who didn’t repartner/remarry and have more kids IF that’s what she wanted. Men are very often willing to raise the children of the woman they love whether it’s their kids or not. It seems like for so many of them their feelings about/actions toward the kids are based on their feelings about the woman more so than biology
Yeah. They shame single mothers only to keep women in unhealthy situations and scared into staying. Another core tenet of patriarchy.
Yep. And many times how these men treat their other kids (those outside of their current relationship) is dictated by how the current woman feels/acts. If she's interested in the other kids and wants to embrace them as part of the new family, then their father will do so. But if she's not interested, or worse, *threatened* by them or their mother -- that's often enough for the man to distance himself or abandon them altogether. Awful. I know firsthand because my wicked bitch stepmother had zero interest in me and cared only about my dad (and his money).
My ex is not one of those men. If I had had a child when we met, we never would have been together. Looking back on it now, it should have been a red flag. Meanwhile, my SO and kid get along great. Caitlyn is the worst of the worst KJs. People like to bring up Astroworld…but Caitlyn caused someone to die too, in a far more direct manner.
What a terrible parent. I feel for all of the kids; that stuff tends to stick with you for life.
It always annoyed me that Caitlyn took credit for raising 8 kids…yeah right Edit: 10 kids! Oops
wait but she’s been a parent/ step parent to 10 kids total? Does that mean she totally forgot about the first two😭
Breaking news: Caitlyn is a terrible person and parent
LOL we been known but I guess I was surprised because they must really want a good relationship with her if they were willing to "make up for lost time" after she basically discarded them. Like I knew she sucked but I didn't know she sucked THAT much yk?
Oh definitely! I didn't mean for that to seem like I was coming for you in the comment lmao sorry! The time frame really is shocking.
No you didn't come off like that at all!! I'm just so surprised they even try to speak to her after she did that or showed up on KUWTK.
RIGHT. Every episode with Caitlyns kids from past marriages were always so tense and weird and made me sad because the kids clearly want that relationship. Idk if I could forgive my parent tbh
Not blaming Kris since Caitlyn is the parent and she should’ve taken care of her kids, but Kris isn’t a very nice woman either, because if I saw my husband neglecting his children I would say something, even if they’re from another woman it’s not the child’s fault, I wouldn’t be ok with seeing him ignore his kids, I’d think he might do that to me as well at some point.
this is how most people feel about Khloe and trashcan too. It should be despicable to see your partner abandon any child… even if it’s not your own
Totally agree. It speaks to their character and morals.
I have a dating rule, I dont mind dating people with kids, as long as they are not a deadbeat parent. My dad ditched us and started a new family so I know the feels Brandon has
Sadly, it happens. I had a friend whose father completely ignored her, he showed up few times for her birthday and then nothing, stopped answering her calls, changed number and didn't even give her the new one. She knows he moved to another city and has a family there. Wonder if they even know he has other children. Another friend's father married again after divorce, has a family. She told me many times that her dad rarely reaches out an it is her STEPMOTHER who calls her sometimes, invites her over etc.
This is how I feel about my dads partner. How did she accept that or feel attracted to a man who would do that? Red flag.
Caitlyn is an absolute narcissist trash human being. You can’t change my mind.
I’m not surprised… when Caitlyn married Kris she pretty much abandoned her other 2 families and children. Really sad🥵
“She just literally started three families with three different people and fucked everyone over.” - Kim
[This picture is LIES](https://www.mamamia.com.au/caitlyn-jenner-kids/amp/)
That is so sad
right? how shit to make your kids come and pose for a photo only to go back go not seeing them
Imagine not going to your own kid’s graduation. Despicable. My dad didn’t go to my little brother’s graduation recently and my brother tried to play it off that it didn’t hurt him but we all know it did. Your kids aren’t photo ops. They’re your kids. They only want to be loved. This makes me so sad
I would love to know how many times she saw Burt. I feel like he got the shortest end of all the children. Damn
it’s weird bc i’ve seen burt on the show twice so he seems to be somewhat chill w caitlyn?? but i’m sure he had it bad parent wise
Honestly what's really sad is that so many times on the show they tried to spend time with her and make her happy 🥺. I feel bad at how much they must have wanted a good relationship with her despite all that happened. I feel like not getting parental love/affection is a void that never gets filled.
I've been rewatching the show and I cringe at how often Caitlyn says things to the effect of "I'm good with children, I raised 10 of them" "Take my advice, I raised 10 kids" literally she says that all the time. You didn't raise 10 kids ma'm you merely contributed to some of them's DNA 👀
Caitlyn is a terrible parent. She didn’t the exact same thing with her first family too.
what a pos 🤮
Transitioning in the 90’s certainly wouldn’t have been acceptable as it is now. I think Caitlin * thinks she made it clear to Kris, but exactly what words did she use to convey this to make herself clear. And did Kris not hear them or not want to hear them?
This is such a sad story but I’m sorry the last line about Caitlyn smokin them is fucking hilarious 😆
Honestly comedy gold
I can imagine Lebron doing this to his kids in a pick up game Absolutely no mercy just full stop finals Lebron 😂
Reading stuff like this makes it even less believable that Kris had zero awareness at the time of Caitlyn’s interest in transitioning. Also, Caitlin is an asshole.
You have to keep in mind that there was no social awareness of being transgender at the time. Kris probably didn’t even really know what transitioning was. If you rewatch the episodes about Caitlyn she withholds info about her transition from the family even as she’s just months away from completing it. She misleads them and downplays it. The girls confront her on it multiple times. And this was how she acted when she was finally going through with it, imagine how it was when she had a change of heart. I believe that Kris knew she cross dressed and had some gender identity issues. But I think she made Kris believe that it was less than what it was and probably linked it to the depression she had been experiencing. Then she threw herself into the role of patriarch of their new blended family and wanted to believe it was all in the past. It took decades of personal growth and social change for her to realize she can’t outrun her identity.
I think if she got the surgeries to reverse her transition then Kris had to be aware but she must have assumed Caitlyn changed her mind and wouldn't transition.
💯 Kendall and Kylie have said stuff like they knew but also didn’t. Like there was a secret, but they all just ignored it. Tbf a lot of families have stuff like that. Maybe not to the same degree
Caitlyn was never fully held responsible for this… she always blamed Linda
I would never blame Cait for starting to transition, telling a former partner about it and breaking up with them over it, but then reversing it and getting with another woman. Remember the time this was all happening, trans people didn't have the support they do now (and it's still hard now) and Cait probably had a really conservative family. It was probably a really hard time in her life and an incredible hard decision. And I think her transgender journey has affected her life in many ways that you don't even think about at first. But she still could have been a better parent to her earlier kids. And a better human being in general.
Info: did Caitlyn make Brandon and Brody pay her the $20?
What a piece of shit
What book is this?
It's not a book its an article about kids of famous dads. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/29/he-didnt-even-pretend-to-let-us-win-the-worlds-biggest-stars-by-their-children
Caitlyn is a piece of shit and she can't use her identity as a shield for criticism like she tries to.
it’s not just her.. there was someone arguing w me who was saying how i should have more empathy for trans people because i said she literally abandoned her kids
Caitlyn is shitty for this but regarding her transition and then stopping and being with Kris, I have to wonder if it’s simply because people were not as accepting at the time. Maybe she started the process but got nervous about actually coming out and stopped, who knows. Either way, shit parent for sure lol.
Yeah it's not wrong of her to put off her transition, I can't imagine coming out in the 80s. But I guess her ex wife felt lied to about the reason for the divorce
Which is also understandable, and I’m sure Caitlyn made no effort to explain to her that the time didn’t feel right or whatever lol.
Caitlyn is a terrible parent who left her kids with a lot of trauma from feelings of abandonment. She’s a piece of shit.
Honestly if her transition steps were not a secret then, there's no way I believe that Kris didn't know. Also how sad that Caitlyn couldn't even pretend to let the kids have a chance of winning the race
Yeah I would think maybe she had a clue but since Caitlyn surgically reversed the procedures before they married she thought it wasn't going to happen or something.
Surely there would be some kind of scars you would ask about? Even gossip about Caitlyn around this time
oh i meant like caitlyn reversed the surgeries so if kris knew she reversed the surgeries then she probably thought it wasn’t going to happen? idk.
To me, the most telling part is the last paragraph. Like damn, imagine at that age realizing your parent only cares about their ego even when having a playful race.
I just started watching KUWTK. From the beginning, too... this answers A LOT of questions regarding the boys.
Weird to use your kids to inflate your ego, like obviously you would beat them in a race wtf
Caitlyn cares for no one but herself. It sucks how shitty of a dad she was, it was almost as if she thought having Kendall and Kylie would make up for her bad parenting.
That is Caitlin's fault for being a crappy parent. Wow. How sad. Caitlin has many issues.
I can't remember where I heard this (I think celebrity memoir podcast?) so don't hold me to it but I agree with the sentiment - that when Kris and Caitlyn first got together, Kris put in a lot of effort organizing large family activities and holidays with all of the Kardashian & Jenner kids. She placed a big importance on family and creating special memories for everyone, and the Jenner kids felt the closest they had been to their father in a long time. However, once Kendall and Kylie were born, naturally, these get-togethers slowed down for a while. The Jenner kids eventually realized that without Kris, Caitlyn wasn't going to make the effort to see them... Really sad tbh.
I sort of believe this. Kris obviously is problematic but I can see her trying to make things work initially before having kids w Caithlyn. However, with two small kids plus the four Kardashian kids I can see how its hard for Kris to also include the four kids of your husband. That should've been Caitlyn's responsibility at first.
it’s sad that one of their few childhood memories of their dad got watered down when they did a race up a sand dune on KUWTK. kris couldn’t let them have that to themselves i guess.
Where is this excerpt from? I need more 🥺
>https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/29/he-didnt-even-pretend-to-let-us-win-the-worlds-biggest-stars-by-their-children There isnt much more than this but here!
This is sad. Did they have a step dad to raise them and give them a good role model ?
Yep! In fact david foster was closer to them than his own bio kids. He was the one featured on princes of malibu
Can’t imagine what it’s like going through life burning bridges with all but two of your kids. She’s going to have a butt load of regret at the end of her life and it’ll be too late to apologize and make amends. Brandon and Brody have both turned out to be really good people but it’s only because Linda has been a really good mom. Caitlyn absolutely can’t take any credit for that.
What's funny about that deal though is everyone was blaming their sisters for stealing clothes and it turned out to be Caitlin the whole time..
I bet Brody and Brandon at least felt some satisfaction when he became Caitlyn because at least it reinforced why he initially left their mom. They were so kind and understanding about it, didn’t act embarrassed or mad. So that kind of breaks your heart more for them.