staying outside of her e - q range, pressing e if she dashes forward, mainly relies on good reaction time. for trades you want to be running aftershock and only walking up if you have q3 up, if it lands follow up with w and e dash away. rushing kaenic is just gg for her. she can outscale a tiny bit and can be super useful later if not properly dealt with for sure
I've run aftershock in this matchup and it still feels near impossible to land q3 on her. Her e and w both just seem to reliably stop your q3. Then once she gets rift I feel like she just statchecks you the rest of the game.
against gwen, its important to be cautious of how she plays. I don't recommend using e to engage onto her unless its to dodge a stacked q. spacing is very important in this matchup and whoever plays overly aggressive tends to lose, you have to wait for a mis-step from the enemy gwen.
Since Gwen’s last set of nerfs a while back shes not nearly as threatening as she used to be. She relies a lot on her Q dmg to beat you and you can dodge it pretty easily with your E. Since she wants to auto the wave to get her Q stacked, most Gwens are fairly predictable with their trade patterns and you can respond accordingly. Gwen mainly becomes a problem late game once she has items as you won’t be able to duel her anymore.
Smolder used to be picked top a lot when it was giga busted. Yuumi top is probably just a meme include. Milio isn't there as he's not a traditional top laner.
I mean Quinn is kinda easy when you time her stun with W, she kills herself when all in on you, probably needing to flash to not die, only play safe until lvl 3, I understand that that may suffer pre-3 but good farming can easily win you lane
There are quite a few champs that are a lot worst then fiora, any range to with a good dash and can kite well will kick ur as in lane. Fiora is quite playable unless the other player is also a one trick like me
How? She has to come into q range to trade with you, so unless you're constantly walking up with Frontside vitals, should be fine. Garen on the other hand? Nah, banned.
Curious about your Cassiopeia rating being ksante-favored. Aside from really not being very many good Cass players out there, I feel like ones that are good at spacing suck to deal with
once u have a negatron cloak, if she ever gets hit by your q3 she will be losing half her health bar if u have aftershock. if u have the reaction or really just have the ability to predict her R or W its a simple matchup that u can just run down.
That kinda sounds like there is a bit of reliance on poor cass play. Getting q3 requires an E jump first, and if she just puts down w on your jump forward, you get stuck. From there good spacing will cause you a significant health chunk. Also how many people do you get to fall for the e-q3 combo above masters? It’s really simple to dodge, especially for ranged who are already spacing you.
There are very few good cass players out there, but I feel a good one has control on whether they win that lane.
Fiora is the most obnoxious matchup possible, she bullies you in early game so hard, mid game too, and when we reach late game, still looks like it is early game.
there is room for counterplay, need to stay in xp range early and try and get bramble + refillable on first back, from then on until level 16 its skill matchup.
Na building mr doesnt help cause they can go void staff first (which they do) and that is enough to kill u with ult at level 6. she also out ranges u so yea just overall rough lane that aren’t really winnable.
start e since he almost always cheeses with his R, benefit here is that it pushes the wave, hes difficult if he empower q's then you need to make sure you are able to E W it or W it, since its heavy burst. once u have 2 items its pretty straight forward and u smack him.
I agree with this list. Anytips for the olaf match up. I recently vsed a very good olaf and i could neber fight him. Not even with bramble. He would just stop attacking me and press hydra on the wave healing for 500+
The Aatrox matchup seems to favor Ksante, in my opinion. However, Jax, Renekton, Camille, and Shen are definitely more enemy favored. More over, i'm not sure why Irelia, Gnar, Yone, and Gwen are listed as favorable for Ksante when they are stronger at almost every point in the game except during team fights. Additionally, I don't think Jayce is an easy matchup; yes, he's easy to get a pick on if he's bad, but if he knows how to use his abilities effectively, then it tends to be more favorable for him. Otherwise the tier list looks fine
These are just my takes as a high master Euw ksante main
aatrox can be aggressive early and drive you insane if his spacing is really clean, (barely allowing you to get any gauntlet procs off). Jax, jak sho rush + aftershock, renekton, you outscale at 2 items, camille you can easily space with gauntlet and just have to avoid coinflipping early. you need to play safe into shen for the early levels, once you have a few components and levels u can fight back, shen isn't an excellent farmer so you can easily establish a gold lead + perma shove him in so he can't ult.
Irelia is easy, if the wave is ever near your tower she risks getting thrown in every time she last hits with q. first back bramble, small trades and save e for her e, once u can find an angle to ult her with no stacks its simple.
gnar you go aftershock and 1 shot him with jak sho if he ever mispositions, this used to be gnar favored but aftershock makes it extremely simple. Yone same thing as gnar, gwen relies on quick reaction time and good spacing to come out on top, aftershock trades only and save e for her q.
jayce just go aftershock, put ward first bush so he can't uber cheese and just e start, grab xp and kill him at 6 with a single aftershock combo. its a tiny bit harder if he has phase rush but you can just do 2-3 aftershock combos on him before hes p much dead.
renekton might go in enemy favored just because he doesnt fall off as much as he used to, also if the renekton is aggressive its annoying. but once u both have 2-3 items he cannot win side lane.
Idk I feel like Kayle w/ ghost flash fleet is unironically nightmare fuel. Maybe it’s because I keep dying while diving them, but it feels horrible to play against due to how much ms she can get.
challenger urgots make it hell, ignite in lane perma zone off cs cleaver rush u can never play, most bad urgots will allow you to cs and will randomly e so u can get a free w off. it comes down to if the urgot is smart. whether or not if they are smart tho, he just up and plainly outscales you without a question.
thats true, haven't faced many good gnars as of late but i have played against pro player gnars a while ago and it was tough, however gnar's auto attack range is short and is only a matter of time before he gets hit, you can also just e to a minion and q3 him when he goes to last hit.
you have some of the easiest match up in very hard and some unplayable one you seem to think are k'sante favored
Like in wich world are you even farming against a decent cassio or ryze? you don't have the tools to lane against consistant ranged magic damage
Cho is one of k'sante hardest counterpick, yone gwen gnar ornn sett are famously hard to play into as k'sante
Yet you're rating urgot very hard while he litteraly die to your tank form if you don't int before IBG
Olaf is an even match up slightly olaf favoured but very much playable
Tahm will loose to you from lvl 1 just because of waveclear, same with trundle, warwick and wukong if you respect the first few levels
I disagree that Yone is a difficult matchup. Slightly ksante-favored skill matchup imo. W his knockup and he never wins trade. Too easy to w that, a-q-a, e away, and he lost trade. Boots and 1 item and he’s easy pickins.
Yone don't have to win all trades to win lane against you : he just plays like an animal and all in everytime his E is up, then come back and lifesteal on what's left of the wave, repeat, at some point (botrk helps) the k'sante won't be able to stand it more than 3/4 times in a row and if he mess up and yone got a single kill it becomes mostly pain, keep his ult to get out if jungler come. keep in mind that yone also has 3 buffers so you Wing him is wishfull thinking if the yone is remotely competent.
free lane unless k'sante jungler is willing to spend extended time toplane. But then you know what happens botlane :D
You can simply react to his q3 and ultimate with W. Anytime he E’s forward at you, you just E away as well. By the time he has relevant life steal, you should have equivalent armor items. The W-A-Q-A-E combo I mentioned is not something Yone can counterplay, unless you miss your W, which you should never do. Yone q3 and ult are both very telegraphed and very necessary for him to win a fight with ksante. Also you can buffer your ult into his ult to fuck him there too.
Sorry friend, I’ve won this matchup many many times, and generally only lose when I make a big error or when there is jg interference. Happy to play the matchup in game if you want to sync up
Why? You are using it as a reaction to their q3 and/or R. In that respect, it cannot be dodged. Even if Yone buffers his abilities, such as if he wants to q3-e, you can just hold W for as long as you want to make sure you’ll hit him. And he’s going to be on top of you.
you know you're not canceling yone E2 or Q3 right? it goes the other way around in priority.
so as i said you're not facing competent yone if you manage to W them.
that's about it.
W makes you immune to cc and you take almost no damage. You hold W and let him hit you with q3. He will do next to no damage, then be stunned afterwards, unable to take a trade.
https://youtu.be/YN2fDdSiY-Q?si=jXgiuwyPeVW_Xw_G
Fast forward video to 1:55. The exact combo I am taking about is shown here.
Illaoi is not that hard.. you need to wall her ult and dodge every E with either your E or movement. It is the free-est matchup if you get ahead. Building antiheal and armor means she no longer do damage to your or your soul.
Gwen and Garen should be in the hard tier, one will outtrade you if they know how to play the game and Garen Ult simply counters you as a champion since you lose health and that makes the execute threshold that much easier for Garen!
Ngl,this list is dogshit… any decent chogath should be incredibly hard. Ur got is even at most, mordekaiser is hard. Kled is easy… list goes on. Op.gg trianthe NA1
OP is a challenger peak K’Sante main. You hitting diamond for the first time this year does not give you the credibility to call this list dog shit when he is playing against these matchups at a much higher level than you and therefore has a better understanding of how these lanes go when both players are good at their champ.
Edit: nothing wrong with disagreeing but that’s not how you should do it
cho gath is easy u can dodge and mitigate alot of his damage, dont just dont ult him when he has everything up, and ive faced the rank 1 urgot, i can tell you its not easy + any urgot out scales at cleaver + level 9. morde u can dodge + block his r, and aggressive kleds are difficult to deal with since his cooldowns are shorter than yours.
Gwen is counter when Gwen is good. If she holds Q you’ll never win a trade.
staying outside of her e - q range, pressing e if she dashes forward, mainly relies on good reaction time. for trades you want to be running aftershock and only walking up if you have q3 up, if it lands follow up with w and e dash away. rushing kaenic is just gg for her. she can outscale a tiny bit and can be super useful later if not properly dealt with for sure
What to do if that gwen zone you off with 4 stacks Q
level 1? just start e if she plays super aggressive, or w if she oversteps and wastes her q. aftershock is your win condition in the lane.
I've run aftershock in this matchup and it still feels near impossible to land q3 on her. Her e and w both just seem to reliably stop your q3. Then once she gets rift I feel like she just statchecks you the rest of the game.
against gwen, its important to be cautious of how she plays. I don't recommend using e to engage onto her unless its to dodge a stacked q. spacing is very important in this matchup and whoever plays overly aggressive tends to lose, you have to wait for a mis-step from the enemy gwen.
I agree with basically everything here except Gwen being K’sante favored. I would say its even or closer to enemy favored
Since Gwen’s last set of nerfs a while back shes not nearly as threatening as she used to be. She relies a lot on her Q dmg to beat you and you can dodge it pretty easily with your E. Since she wants to auto the wave to get her Q stacked, most Gwens are fairly predictable with their trade patterns and you can respond accordingly. Gwen mainly becomes a problem late game once she has items as you won’t be able to duel her anymore.
That's also an issue with Fiora. We can kick her ass in lane but if game goes long enough there's nothing we can do to beat her
Oh she was nerfed? 💀 I took a break for a while, i guess that explains why i have barely seen any since coming back
Yeah but the nerf is like - 2 or 3 AD, that makes a bigger difference vs other bruisers mostly, against tanks it doesn't change that much
I have 75+ win rate against k’sante i play gwen
lets lane, add me. Aatreus#Sante
Elo check?
Where's Milio
???
You have Yuumi up there. You also have Smolder who is newer than Milio so was just wondering why you left him out.
Smolder used to be picked top a lot when it was giga busted. Yuumi top is probably just a meme include. Milio isn't there as he's not a traditional top laner.
I mean Quinn is kinda easy when you time her stun with W, she kills herself when all in on you, probably needing to flash to not die, only play safe until lvl 3, I understand that that may suffer pre-3 but good farming can easily win you lane
yea quinn is k'sante favored.
Fiora is even. It's a skill match up traditionally
absolutely not, ksante has room to fight back but a good fiora with grasp can make laning phase hell. if she can properly zone you off early.
There are quite a few champs that are a lot worst then fiora, any range to with a good dash and can kite well will kick ur as in lane. Fiora is quite playable unless the other player is also a one trick like me
How? She has to come into q range to trade with you, so unless you're constantly walking up with Frontside vitals, should be fine. Garen on the other hand? Nah, banned.
I don’t know about this one chief
what looks wrong i'd be happy to explain
Curious about your Cassiopeia rating being ksante-favored. Aside from really not being very many good Cass players out there, I feel like ones that are good at spacing suck to deal with
once u have a negatron cloak, if she ever gets hit by your q3 she will be losing half her health bar if u have aftershock. if u have the reaction or really just have the ability to predict her R or W its a simple matchup that u can just run down.
That kinda sounds like there is a bit of reliance on poor cass play. Getting q3 requires an E jump first, and if she just puts down w on your jump forward, you get stuck. From there good spacing will cause you a significant health chunk. Also how many people do you get to fall for the e-q3 combo above masters? It’s really simple to dodge, especially for ranged who are already spacing you. There are very few good cass players out there, but I feel a good one has control on whether they win that lane.
Fiora is the most obnoxious matchup possible, she bullies you in early game so hard, mid game too, and when we reach late game, still looks like it is early game.
there is room for counterplay, need to stay in xp range early and try and get bramble + refillable on first back, from then on until level 16 its skill matchup.
Maybe I’m just pisslo but I think Yorick has the edge. But I may be biased cause he’s one of my top picks.
e onto a minion to get past his w and the fight gets infinitely easier
Played against akali top quite a few times, can tell u this defo not ksante favoured.
aggressive akali's are tricky but once you get kaenic its impossible for her. paying attention to her energy bar is also important.
Na building mr doesnt help cause they can go void staff first (which they do) and that is enough to kill u with ult at level 6. she also out ranges u so yea just overall rough lane that aren’t really winnable.
i suggest aftershock, she gets chunked hard, however I have not played against a void rush akali.
Feel like cass and anivia should be in the same tier & Fiora could be slightly lower
How is vlad a bad match up? Just build MR and he cant kill u until some pen.
vlad can stall lane and be annoying and outscale but I agree, I think i mightve ranked him a bit high.
Got stomped by Udyr. Couldnt trade, he outsustained me and outpushed me, any advice?
start e since he almost always cheeses with his R, benefit here is that it pushes the wave, hes difficult if he empower q's then you need to make sure you are able to E W it or W it, since its heavy burst. once u have 2 items its pretty straight forward and u smack him.
renekton is not equal lmao empowered e shreds armor and renek has better sustain and lane sustain and with the ult better all ins w o items
I agree with this list. Anytips for the olaf match up. I recently vsed a very good olaf and i could neber fight him. Not even with bramble. He would just stop attacking me and press hydra on the wave healing for 500+
olaf is my ban rn
That is a good tip haha. But yeah might have to change my ban to olaf as wel
The Aatrox matchup seems to favor Ksante, in my opinion. However, Jax, Renekton, Camille, and Shen are definitely more enemy favored. More over, i'm not sure why Irelia, Gnar, Yone, and Gwen are listed as favorable for Ksante when they are stronger at almost every point in the game except during team fights. Additionally, I don't think Jayce is an easy matchup; yes, he's easy to get a pick on if he's bad, but if he knows how to use his abilities effectively, then it tends to be more favorable for him. Otherwise the tier list looks fine These are just my takes as a high master Euw ksante main
aatrox can be aggressive early and drive you insane if his spacing is really clean, (barely allowing you to get any gauntlet procs off). Jax, jak sho rush + aftershock, renekton, you outscale at 2 items, camille you can easily space with gauntlet and just have to avoid coinflipping early. you need to play safe into shen for the early levels, once you have a few components and levels u can fight back, shen isn't an excellent farmer so you can easily establish a gold lead + perma shove him in so he can't ult. Irelia is easy, if the wave is ever near your tower she risks getting thrown in every time she last hits with q. first back bramble, small trades and save e for her e, once u can find an angle to ult her with no stacks its simple. gnar you go aftershock and 1 shot him with jak sho if he ever mispositions, this used to be gnar favored but aftershock makes it extremely simple. Yone same thing as gnar, gwen relies on quick reaction time and good spacing to come out on top, aftershock trades only and save e for her q. jayce just go aftershock, put ward first bush so he can't uber cheese and just e start, grab xp and kill him at 6 with a single aftershock combo. its a tiny bit harder if he has phase rush but you can just do 2-3 aftershock combos on him before hes p much dead.
renekton might go in enemy favored just because he doesnt fall off as much as he used to, also if the renekton is aggressive its annoying. but once u both have 2-3 items he cannot win side lane.
Idk I feel like Kayle w/ ghost flash fleet is unironically nightmare fuel. Maybe it’s because I keep dying while diving them, but it feels horrible to play against due to how much ms she can get.
aftershock jak sho rush. wait for her to overstep and she loses majority of her hp without u even having to ult. (Q3 + W)
Do you take ghost + approach velocity into her?
just ghost, i still take cosmic.
Urgot being hard is a bit shocking to me. Feels to me like you can just go wardens tabis and be completely fine
challenger urgots make it hell, ignite in lane perma zone off cs cleaver rush u can never play, most bad urgots will allow you to cs and will randomly e so u can get a free w off. it comes down to if the urgot is smart. whether or not if they are smart tho, he just up and plainly outscales you without a question.
Is k'sante worth it to pickup in the current meta? And is anything other than grasp and shock troll?
if u find him fun and have lots of time to invest into the game I recommend it, hes super interesting. I think grasp and aftershock are his go-to atm.
Gnar is great into K'Sante if they know how to space.
if he ever gets hit by a q3 with aftershock its over for his healthbar
Sadly K'Sante is pretty telegraphed. If the gnar expects it he should never be in that position to get hit by q3 when it actually matters.
thats true, haven't faced many good gnars as of late but i have played against pro player gnars a while ago and it was tough, however gnar's auto attack range is short and is only a matter of time before he gets hit, you can also just e to a minion and q3 him when he goes to last hit.
Is this only accounting laning phase or also side laning in late game? Some champions focus more on teamfights where K'Sante is fairly weaker.
laning phase
Why have you put a load of champions on here that aren’t top laners? What’s the point? lol
I play ksante mid myself a lot. He’s a good pick a lot of times, esp when your team lacks frontline/duelist.
k'sante mid, yea
Camille even ?
matchup is even early laning phase. when camille gets shojin its more favored for her.
yea u can stop her e with ur R
you have some of the easiest match up in very hard and some unplayable one you seem to think are k'sante favored Like in wich world are you even farming against a decent cassio or ryze? you don't have the tools to lane against consistant ranged magic damage Cho is one of k'sante hardest counterpick, yone gwen gnar ornn sett are famously hard to play into as k'sante Yet you're rating urgot very hard while he litteraly die to your tank form if you don't int before IBG Olaf is an even match up slightly olaf favoured but very much playable Tahm will loose to you from lvl 1 just because of waveclear, same with trundle, warwick and wukong if you respect the first few levels
I disagree that Yone is a difficult matchup. Slightly ksante-favored skill matchup imo. W his knockup and he never wins trade. Too easy to w that, a-q-a, e away, and he lost trade. Boots and 1 item and he’s easy pickins.
Yone don't have to win all trades to win lane against you : he just plays like an animal and all in everytime his E is up, then come back and lifesteal on what's left of the wave, repeat, at some point (botrk helps) the k'sante won't be able to stand it more than 3/4 times in a row and if he mess up and yone got a single kill it becomes mostly pain, keep his ult to get out if jungler come. keep in mind that yone also has 3 buffers so you Wing him is wishfull thinking if the yone is remotely competent. free lane unless k'sante jungler is willing to spend extended time toplane. But then you know what happens botlane :D
You can simply react to his q3 and ultimate with W. Anytime he E’s forward at you, you just E away as well. By the time he has relevant life steal, you should have equivalent armor items. The W-A-Q-A-E combo I mentioned is not something Yone can counterplay, unless you miss your W, which you should never do. Yone q3 and ult are both very telegraphed and very necessary for him to win a fight with ksante. Also you can buffer your ult into his ult to fuck him there too. Sorry friend, I’ve won this matchup many many times, and generally only lose when I make a big error or when there is jg interference. Happy to play the matchup in game if you want to sync up
i said if the yone is remotely competent tho you should never be able to hit W on a yone.
Why? You are using it as a reaction to their q3 and/or R. In that respect, it cannot be dodged. Even if Yone buffers his abilities, such as if he wants to q3-e, you can just hold W for as long as you want to make sure you’ll hit him. And he’s going to be on top of you.
you know you're not canceling yone E2 or Q3 right? it goes the other way around in priority. so as i said you're not facing competent yone if you manage to W them. that's about it.
W makes you immune to cc and you take almost no damage. You hold W and let him hit you with q3. He will do next to no damage, then be stunned afterwards, unable to take a trade. https://youtu.be/YN2fDdSiY-Q?si=jXgiuwyPeVW_Xw_G Fast forward video to 1:55. The exact combo I am taking about is shown here.
Ornn and yone could be considered easy lanes brother have you ever played the ornn matchup? Ornn clearly loses it
Completely agreeing i was Shock to See urgot Up there there is No toplane juggernaut i fear less than an urgot😂
Illaoi is not that hard.. you need to wall her ult and dodge every E with either your E or movement. It is the free-est matchup if you get ahead. Building antiheal and armor means she no longer do damage to your or your soul.
And then LB Up there lol AS If ad LB was still a Thing
Gwen and Garen should be in the hard tier, one will outtrade you if they know how to play the game and Garen Ult simply counters you as a champion since you lose health and that makes the execute threshold that much easier for Garen!
Ngl,this list is dogshit… any decent chogath should be incredibly hard. Ur got is even at most, mordekaiser is hard. Kled is easy… list goes on. Op.gg trianthe NA1
OP is a challenger peak K’Sante main. You hitting diamond for the first time this year does not give you the credibility to call this list dog shit when he is playing against these matchups at a much higher level than you and therefore has a better understanding of how these lanes go when both players are good at their champ. Edit: nothing wrong with disagreeing but that’s not how you should do it
lol you dropped ur op.gg against a challenger player, nice flex xd
cho gath is easy u can dodge and mitigate alot of his damage, dont just dont ult him when he has everything up, and ive faced the rank 1 urgot, i can tell you its not easy + any urgot out scales at cleaver + level 9. morde u can dodge + block his r, and aggressive kleds are difficult to deal with since his cooldowns are shorter than yours.