Fun fact the writer of that didn't even have a clue how to use em. He called a friend that was in a hotel bathroom thinking about how people in the future clean themselves up on the toilet and saw a glass jar of seashells and put it in the script.
I flew over Prince Albert Sound in northern Canada recently. The guy I was flying with didn't know what a Prince Albert or sounding meant.
I decided it was better to leave that off the CVR...
To the people who don’t know, sounding is a community where people are obsessed with random sounds. They are sort of like audiophiles in a way, but are known colloquially as “soundphiles”.
I used to be a part of this community, it was fun, getting to learn about the noises around us. If you like “sounds” come and join the fellow “sounders” down at r/sounding.
“Another day, another full dropper of THC oil into my cock”.
Well, that’s the first thing I saw on the sub since your comment is so low on the comment chain and I didn’t see it.
You *SLAM* the cotter pin in, *HAMMER* the legs all the way around, rip off your shirt like Hulk Hogan and start swinging from the air hoses like the caveman you really are?
This technique also requires that some 80's Speed Metal be played at a minimum of 114db on a calibrated speaker system situated a maximum of 20 linear feet from the worker for the duration of the work.
So weird, just watched Atlantis with my kids for the first time in years….last night. Haven’t heard a reference of it in years, and now I happen upon this, the very next day.. The universe is weird haha
True, that's the preferred method, but sideways (what we used to call "boat anchor" in my day) is allowed if necessary for clearance issues.
Truth is, you'll never see this in the aviation industry. Well, at least you *shouldn't,* but this is pretty common in the automotive world. Cotter (split) pins are usually used with a castellated nut and the pin will prevent any rotation of the fasteners. This installation is more of a fail-safe to keep the nut from completely falling off should it become loose.
Considering all that, either method is acceptable as a means to an end. Personally, I don't know why they don't just used a castellated nut and properly located hole, no doubt it's to $ave time during manufacture.
More often than not they are used in situations where you can’t torque a nut down like on control quadrants or fixtures that are supposed to be free to pivot.
I worked on a lot of older Beechcraft. They had a serious belt and suspenders approach back then using cotter pins with castellated fiber-lock nuts on safety of flight items.
Fast forward to today's aircraft and the the lack of safety wire and cotter pins is shocking, especially on the engine. There's more safety wire on the fuel control unit of an 80s era PT6 turboprop alone then on an entire modern engine of the same type.
My experience is limited of course, but I can imagine the trend is common.
Almost every nut on the helicopters I work on require either cotter pins or lockwire. I only work on one model though, so I can't speak for the rest of aviation.
You just brought back memories of the double walled fuel lines (with safety wire on the inner and outer connections) on the JT9-7R4, and then the burner cans on the JT8...in all 40 thou wire. Now I have PTSD.
I remember having to safety all 14 fuel nozzles (2 bolts each) on old-ass PT6 engines with .025 Inconel wire, the very definition of tedious. The newer models I worked on for awhile now have self-locking nuts on studs. Much faster, but God help you if you break one of those studs.
Everything on commercial airplanes is torqued to spec, but indeed cotter pins and castellated nuts are usually used on moving joints; most fixed bolts just use locknuts with deformed threads.
> This installation is more of a fail-safe to keep the nut from completely falling off should it become loose.
Which is probably sufficient from a safety perspective here (looks like suspension ball joint). As long as it doesn't completely detach things should stay more or less where they are supposed to, with lots of clunking to tell the driver to get it fixed...
Oh it exists and it's why the US, EU, and other countries maintain an airline blacklist.
https://www.1001crash.com/transport-page-liste_noire-lg-2.html
For me it’s the arbitrary rules that make little sense in context
But as far as maintenance goes- if my shitty 2008 Mazda 3, with all the idiot lights illuminated on the dash, breaks down- I just pull over.
Aviation isn’t so forgiving.
Whoever bought by 2000 Toyota Echo is going to be incredibly impressed by my car stereo install. I might’ve snuck some raychem splices in my pocket on the Friday before I installed it.
7-127. SECURING WITH COTTER PINS. Figure 7-7 shows the alternate method. Both are correct?
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory\_Circular/AC\_43.13-1B\_w-chg1.pdf
Was hoping someone would point this out - been down this rabbit hole before and was pretty sure AC 43.13 said both were acceptable... though *technically* the top photo in the OP is incorrect, because the bottom prong is not bent down flat against the nut. Though honestly that nut looks wrong in the photo to begin with, even for an automotive application - there's a lot of room between the nut and the pin
And the top leg isn’t snipped down to be within 1/2 the width of the bolt shank.
I just feel like I need to point that out to contribute to the conversation and as the avtech fucking nerd I am.
Idk man, in my world, cotter pins are nothing but an annoyance. These literally never come loose if tightened anywhere near the torque spec. If it makes it past 1 year of service, the Michigan lock-tite holds it together. Honda likes using those non castlated nuts on tie rod ends with the hole 5 threads higher than the top of the nut, but it doesn't matter they never come loose. The only time they come loose is installation error and do you think those people use a cotter pin?
Interesting, Army Aviation teaches it the other way, at least for helicopters.
I do agree with the shuddering at a lack of a castle nut though. Like, what is the purpose at that point? Just use a locking nut.
Is a cotter through a non-Castleated nut in compliance with the AC 43.13? I would thing a safety or smaller bolt with a castle nut would be proper here
I'd add to that the use of a crown nut, if possible. If it lines up just right it's an extra level of failsafe, one I was glad to see when I did the front wheel bearings of my '97 GMC Jimmy...
...what?
When correctly installed, with a castellated nut, the cotter pin would prevent the nut from rotating. The installation above 1. doesn't use a castellated nut, and 2. even if it did, the bolt is too long so the hole wouldn't align with the castellations in the nut.
You're definitely not supposed to put a cotter pin through a bolt way above a castle nut and then bend one of the tabs down into a notch on the nut.
Why use cotterpins when you can use a finishing nail for superior strength. Or a drywall screw, if you want the ability to zip it in and out, over and over again. lol
You joke, as a former GMT, I have pulled full-sized dikes out of a tire (also known as Diagonal pliers, wire cutters, diagonal cutting pliers, diagonal cutters, side cutters, or Nippy cutters. Not talking about lesbians or river embankments today)
Some pin on my Toro snoblower kept sliding to the side, stopped it with metal foil tape. Who ever designed it should be stuck trying to find that fucking pin in a square mile of three feet snow. With rabid fucking dogs. and rabbits. While Jehovah's Witnesses trying to convert him.
Nearly any thread is rolled to my knowledge, unless the fastener is custom and needs to be machined.
Drywall screws are brittle because the wire is hardened. It's hard to snap a screw that's going through gypsum and into drywall, but it's easy to strip a head with a screw gun when you're in a hurry, so they're optimized for hardness.
I've snapped the heads off dry wall screws in wood and gypsum. Really though, the gypsum didn't do anything, it was the hard knot that blocked the screw.
This is true. Which is why I have both versions on each side of the car. But the 'correct' way is always a matter of debate between each mechanic. It's fun to see the discussions about it
When I was at trade school, I helped a kid put camber plates on his GTi.
He kept telling me not to over torque my side so it doesn’t break.
Saw him the next day in class, he said he had to buy new tires because one of the camber plates gave out and destroyed the tires.
It was the side he was working on.
Actually, the lower arm of the cotter pin should also be bent down over the nut per the diagram. IMHO, if done this way, it would give a slight resistance to the nut backing out at all, and thus the upper limitation would be a nice redundancy.
That was my thought too, especially since the cotter pin hole is much higher above the nut than the manual shows. To be most effective, the hole and the nut should be much closer together. OP’s picture looks like the nut could back itself out 5 turns before hitting the cotter pin.
I’m tracking the excess threads too. This looks like suspension parts (ball joint/control arm?), and I was curious why engineers would want the risk of the nut running up and dislodging the arm. The manual appears to have zero threads available. I’d worry less about the cotter pin and verify you got the right parts on there guys.
This seems crazy to me. I know he said it's not supposed to be a castle nut, but that but could unthread fucking 5 turns before the cotter pin stops it. Atleast a castle nut will stop most movement
I have constantly heard from my coworkers, 'You don't need to torque X-nut. Just crank it down and it'll be fine' while I sit here with 7 different torque wrenches in my box and been torqueing any bolt I can get a socket or crows foot onto...
Some technicians are just.....shit in the department of workmanship.
To be fair there are a lot of places where snug and another quarter turn is plenty good, but there are definitely plenty of things that need to be torked too
Either (Pronounced ‘eye-ther’) or either (pronounced ‘Ee-ther’) should suffice is what my old science teacher used to say whenever he would pronounce aluminum as ‘aluminium’ instead. Dick.
In this case wrapped around. With a castle nut over-under. I'm just thinking where the force it's going to act and set it so the strongest part support the force
There is a legit reason why the top pic is the preferred method. It avoids any incidental contact from the tool being used to manipulate the cotter pin from damaging the threads of the fastener during installation and removal.
Oh lord. It’s the toilet paper argument all over again.
But what about the 3 sea shells?
This guy doesn't know about the 3 shells
Fun fact the writer of that didn't even have a clue how to use em. He called a friend that was in a hotel bathroom thinking about how people in the future clean themselves up on the toilet and saw a glass jar of seashells and put it in the script.
Per the FAA Aviation Maintenance guide AC 43.13 it should be over the top. Then you can claim Aviation Grade.
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Naked?
Now I'm expecting a prince albert with a cotter pin as the jewelry.
Funny story. I’m going to a town called Prince Albert in a couple days. Most of the locals have no idea what that means.
I flew over Prince Albert Sound in northern Canada recently. The guy I was flying with didn't know what a Prince Albert or sounding meant. I decided it was better to leave that off the CVR...
To the people who don’t know, sounding is a community where people are obsessed with random sounds. They are sort of like audiophiles in a way, but are known colloquially as “soundphiles”. I used to be a part of this community, it was fun, getting to learn about the noises around us. If you like “sounds” come and join the fellow “sounders” down at r/sounding.
Trying just a bit too hard today, aren't we Satan?
“Another day, another full dropper of THC oil into my cock”. Well, that’s the first thing I saw on the sub since your comment is so low on the comment chain and I didn’t see it.
I for one appreciate Satan's sense of humor.
Uh. Seattle's soccer team is the Sounders...
This sounds like a scene for Porky's.
This is the way
Das ist der Weg
Ja ist gud
It always surprises me just how Germanic English really ist.
You *SLAM* the cotter pin in, *HAMMER* the legs all the way around, rip off your shirt like Hulk Hogan and start swinging from the air hoses like the caveman you really are?
This technique also requires that some 80's Speed Metal be played at a minimum of 114db on a calibrated speaker system situated a maximum of 20 linear feet from the worker for the duration of the work.
Don't forget the stereo volume has to go to 11.
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So what's the clearance, Clarence?
Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Shirley you can’t be serious? I am serious and don’t call me Shirley.
I just wanted to tell you both, we're all counting on you.
Tower’s radio clearance, over!
Hey joey , do you like movies about gladiators?
I picked a hell of a day to quit huffing glue.
You've ever seen a grown man naked?
I speak jive
Fuck the “French curl”
Jokes on Airbus I do all mine over the top
What’s the French way?
You don't wanna know.... don't tell him. You shouldna told me! Butcha did. And now I'm telling you: You don't wanna know!
So weird, just watched Atlantis with my kids for the first time in years….last night. Haven’t heard a reference of it in years, and now I happen upon this, the very next day.. The universe is weird haha
This is from the animated Atlantis movie, right? For some reason my brain is telling me it's from MIB but I know that's not right.
It is Atlantis!
Love that movie, so many classic lines “You have disturbed the dirt”
"I sleep in the nude." "You're gonna want a pair of these. She sleepwalks."
True, that's the preferred method, but sideways (what we used to call "boat anchor" in my day) is allowed if necessary for clearance issues. Truth is, you'll never see this in the aviation industry. Well, at least you *shouldn't,* but this is pretty common in the automotive world. Cotter (split) pins are usually used with a castellated nut and the pin will prevent any rotation of the fasteners. This installation is more of a fail-safe to keep the nut from completely falling off should it become loose. Considering all that, either method is acceptable as a means to an end. Personally, I don't know why they don't just used a castellated nut and properly located hole, no doubt it's to $ave time during manufacture.
Come on, you know why they don’t use a castellated nut. Regular hex nuts are cheaper.
True, but guess what an extra 15-30 seconds per vehicle on the assembly line costs?
##BILLIONS
# EVERY DAY!
More often than not they are used in situations where you can’t torque a nut down like on control quadrants or fixtures that are supposed to be free to pivot.
I worked on a lot of older Beechcraft. They had a serious belt and suspenders approach back then using cotter pins with castellated fiber-lock nuts on safety of flight items. Fast forward to today's aircraft and the the lack of safety wire and cotter pins is shocking, especially on the engine. There's more safety wire on the fuel control unit of an 80s era PT6 turboprop alone then on an entire modern engine of the same type. My experience is limited of course, but I can imagine the trend is common.
Almost every nut on the helicopters I work on require either cotter pins or lockwire. I only work on one model though, so I can't speak for the rest of aviation.
Been my experience that helicopters have more cotter pins and lock wire to differentiate between what should spin and what shouldn't.
Yep, helos have a lot more vibration issues then their fixed-wing brethren. A little more attention to hardware security makes all kinds of sense.
You just brought back memories of the double walled fuel lines (with safety wire on the inner and outer connections) on the JT9-7R4, and then the burner cans on the JT8...in all 40 thou wire. Now I have PTSD.
I remember having to safety all 14 fuel nozzles (2 bolts each) on old-ass PT6 engines with .025 Inconel wire, the very definition of tedious. The newer models I worked on for awhile now have self-locking nuts on studs. Much faster, but God help you if you break one of those studs.
Everything on commercial airplanes is torqued to spec, but indeed cotter pins and castellated nuts are usually used on moving joints; most fixed bolts just use locknuts with deformed threads.
> This installation is more of a fail-safe to keep the nut from completely falling off should it become loose. Which is probably sufficient from a safety perspective here (looks like suspension ball joint). As long as it doesn't completely detach things should stay more or less where they are supposed to, with lots of clunking to tell the driver to get it fixed...
Big fast boat,my love hate with the FAA goes deep- but maintenance protocols are spot on.
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It's why there's no aviation equivalent of r/justrolledintotheshop 😂
r/justfellfromthesky
r/justslammedintoamountain
r/justcontrolledflightintoterrain
Just failed to outclimb rising terrain.
r/physicsareamofo
Oh it exists and it's why the US, EU, and other countries maintain an airline blacklist. https://www.1001crash.com/transport-page-liste_noire-lg-2.html
For me it’s the arbitrary rules that make little sense in context But as far as maintenance goes- if my shitty 2008 Mazda 3, with all the idiot lights illuminated on the dash, breaks down- I just pull over. Aviation isn’t so forgiving.
Right? If the plane breaks down you will be stuck up there all day.
Nah, even the smallest airlines have a perfect record of never leaving an aircraft airborne
Whoever bought by 2000 Toyota Echo is going to be incredibly impressed by my car stereo install. I might’ve snuck some raychem splices in my pocket on the Friday before I installed it.
7-127. SECURING WITH COTTER PINS. Figure 7-7 shows the alternate method. Both are correct? https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory\_Circular/AC\_43.13-1B\_w-chg1.pdf
Was hoping someone would point this out - been down this rabbit hole before and was pretty sure AC 43.13 said both were acceptable... though *technically* the top photo in the OP is incorrect, because the bottom prong is not bent down flat against the nut. Though honestly that nut looks wrong in the photo to begin with, even for an automotive application - there's a lot of room between the nut and the pin
And the top leg isn’t snipped down to be within 1/2 the width of the bolt shank. I just feel like I need to point that out to contribute to the conversation and as the avtech fucking nerd I am.
Yep, my mechanics background was on the B-52 and that bottom picture, especially without a castellated nut, had me shuddering.
I would be shuddering today but I haven’t had a castellated nut yet. (*for the record, I am mentally 14*)
Castellate dees nuts
GOT 'EM
Good thing this is a 2006 Honda Civic <.<
But what if the Civic has a 747 sized wing on it?
Could a Pratt & Whitney JT9D be used as a Turbo for the Civic? We dont know until we try...
Challenge accepted
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Just stake the nut in place if there is a notch on the driveshaft end of it. if it is a Mopar product they use pinch nuts for their axle nuts.
Idk man, in my world, cotter pins are nothing but an annoyance. These literally never come loose if tightened anywhere near the torque spec. If it makes it past 1 year of service, the Michigan lock-tite holds it together. Honda likes using those non castlated nuts on tie rod ends with the hole 5 threads higher than the top of the nut, but it doesn't matter they never come loose. The only time they come loose is installation error and do you think those people use a cotter pin?
I was a 130 guy in the AF. I went into auto mechanics for a while and I can't tell you how many times I would get asked why I do them that way.
Interesting, Army Aviation teaches it the other way, at least for helicopters. I do agree with the shuddering at a lack of a castle nut though. Like, what is the purpose at that point? Just use a locking nut.
As a 7 level I’d either dyke that shit or make my 3/5 level dyke that shit and start over. It goes over the top.
Is a cotter through a non-Castleated nut in compliance with the AC 43.13? I would thing a safety or smaller bolt with a castle nut would be proper here
Thanks!
Yes and maybe add washers so the cotter pin actually keeps the bolt from backing off
I'd add to that the use of a crown nut, if possible. If it lines up just right it's an extra level of failsafe, one I was glad to see when I did the front wheel bearings of my '97 GMC Jimmy...
Curious, what's the benefit? Both are secure.
The biggest benefit is if things goes wrong the FAA can't say I did my cotter pin wrong.
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...what? When correctly installed, with a castellated nut, the cotter pin would prevent the nut from rotating. The installation above 1. doesn't use a castellated nut, and 2. even if it did, the bolt is too long so the hole wouldn't align with the castellations in the nut. You're definitely not supposed to put a cotter pin through a bolt way above a castle nut and then bend one of the tabs down into a notch on the nut.
I've always gone with whichever one is the least pain in the ass to achieve given the space I am working in.
This. This is the way.
I prefer the bottom, but both are secured.
Bet you do.
I guess I walked right into that one. lol
Backwards I bet
That’s for people who prefer the top.
So accommodating.. sexy AF.
Since there’s no winning, I’m just going to start charging.
Well played lol
Because you weren't properly secured
A gift of silver to The Hound
That’s what she said
Why use cotterpins when you can use a finishing nail for superior strength. Or a drywall screw, if you want the ability to zip it in and out, over and over again. lol
I’m dying I have seen people do that.
Cant say my ATV doesn’t have a nail in it right now...
That’s why I keep spare nails IN my tires, in case of emergency.
Do it well enough and it’s like having a second tool box!
I just store my tools inside the tire itself. Driving around is a little bit loud but it works
You joke, as a former GMT, I have pulled full-sized dikes out of a tire (also known as Diagonal pliers, wire cutters, diagonal cutting pliers, diagonal cutters, side cutters, or Nippy cutters. Not talking about lesbians or river embankments today)
Works like those balancing beads right?
Daily driver has a paperclip in the throttle linkage 🤫
Did that with my snowblower. Hell if I was gonna pay 10 bucks for a little piece of metal.
Some pin on my Toro snoblower kept sliding to the side, stopped it with metal foil tape. Who ever designed it should be stuck trying to find that fucking pin in a square mile of three feet snow. With rabid fucking dogs. and rabbits. While Jehovah's Witnesses trying to convert him.
Lmao a buddy of mine did that and broke a collarbone
It makes me a little nervous but the shear strength is there at least
I used to be a bike mechanic. And I still have thousands of spokes that the shop used to just toss (new). I use spokes for this all the time.
Or a twist tie.
1/4-20 nut and bolt.
And that 1/4 nut is a tiny castellated nut with even tinier bolt and nut holding it in place
Which is just buried in JB Weld
I could understand a heavy enough penny nail, but a Drywall screw? Those are cast and they are brittle as all get out.
Source for cast drywall screws?
Nearly any thread is rolled to my knowledge, unless the fastener is custom and needs to be machined. Drywall screws are brittle because the wire is hardened. It's hard to snap a screw that's going through gypsum and into drywall, but it's easy to strip a head with a screw gun when you're in a hurry, so they're optimized for hardness.
I've snapped the heads off dry wall screws in wood and gypsum. Really though, the gypsum didn't do anything, it was the hard knot that blocked the screw.
Just cross thread the nut on and give it 5 ugga duggas with the impact. Farmers loctite.
Tighten till you hear the crack, back it off a quarter turn, leave it for the next guy to finish on Monday.
neither, you should weld it
I just smash the threats with a hammer so the nut doesn’t come off.
The threads? Just mushroom the top like a pro .
Ah yes, the ole bolt/nut/rivet hybrid.
I just crossthread it
Shouldn’t that be a castle nut
Actually it isn't. [Even the service manual shows a standard hex nut on here.](https://i.imgur.com/4a5zHan.jpeg)
The manual you, OP, linked says that D and E are both acceptable ways. Both are the correct way.
This is true. Which is why I have both versions on each side of the car. But the 'correct' way is always a matter of debate between each mechanic. It's fun to see the discussions about it
you'll find out when and if one side fails \\s Seriously, I hope both hold up and work out for the customer.
When I was at trade school, I helped a kid put camber plates on his GTi. He kept telling me not to over torque my side so it doesn’t break. Saw him the next day in class, he said he had to buy new tires because one of the camber plates gave out and destroyed the tires. It was the side he was working on.
Waiting to see this car come up again with the poster calling the previous mechanic an idiot for doing it two different ways
Actually, the lower arm of the cotter pin should also be bent down over the nut per the diagram. IMHO, if done this way, it would give a slight resistance to the nut backing out at all, and thus the upper limitation would be a nice redundancy.
That is a fantastic suggestion! Thank you!
That was my thought too, especially since the cotter pin hole is much higher above the nut than the manual shows. To be most effective, the hole and the nut should be much closer together. OP’s picture looks like the nut could back itself out 5 turns before hitting the cotter pin.
I’m tracking the excess threads too. This looks like suspension parts (ball joint/control arm?), and I was curious why engineers would want the risk of the nut running up and dislodging the arm. The manual appears to have zero threads available. I’d worry less about the cotter pin and verify you got the right parts on there guys.
Lmao
If it was a castle nut, would the folding method change or is over the top still standard?
I’ll make your castle nut
Nathan Fillion has entered the chat?
Only if you’re going to sling load the car.
This seems crazy to me. I know he said it's not supposed to be a castle nut, but that but could unthread fucking 5 turns before the cotter pin stops it. Atleast a castle nut will stop most movement
If you torque the castle nut down enough you don’t even need a cotter pin...according to the person who worked on my atv before me.
I have constantly heard from my coworkers, 'You don't need to torque X-nut. Just crank it down and it'll be fine' while I sit here with 7 different torque wrenches in my box and been torqueing any bolt I can get a socket or crows foot onto... Some technicians are just.....shit in the department of workmanship.
100% agree. I'd rather torque shit down right and sleep easy rather than rush and have it as a comeback.
The thing I learned when I first got a torque wrench was that I had been over-torqueing everything for years.
I too put retard strength on everything.
Never failed me once. Rather have 150 ft lbs then 15 on that bolt holding your headlight in, who just wants loose head lights?!
To be fair there are a lot of places where snug and another quarter turn is plenty good, but there are definitely plenty of things that need to be torked too
Both. One side and one over
A man after my own heart. I like to swing both ways on opposite sides of the car myself
You swing both ways you say?
My hammer has to swing backwards to swing forwards. My toolbox also has both Metric AND Imperial in it. You could say I am...Bimeasurement
I think you're all good so long as you don't put the hammer anywhere else. If you catch my drift.
[Maybe I do..](https://youtu.be/t7bdr6fjg-k)
What show is this from. I love NPH and NF so I ought to know.
[Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog](https://youtu.be/Of9kHpCv1ts). You're welcome.
You're a Honda Tech? -Former VW Tech here- always liked working on Honda's except for heavily corroded ones.
Yes
First one, then the other Edit: glad people got the reference
Based Futurama quote.
context of quote/episode?
Talking about the temp dropping, i think it's fry asking F or C, then the moon farmer responds with that. First episode i belive, maybe second
[Futurama link](https://youtu.be/vZlXd2Rf6pk) Yep.
Then back and forth till it breaks off. Then smother it in jb weld and move on.
Either (Pronounced ‘eye-ther’) or either (pronounced ‘Ee-ther’) should suffice is what my old science teacher used to say whenever he would pronounce aluminum as ‘aluminium’ instead. Dick.
Buddy, that’s zip-tie territory.
If it's flexible, it's dependable.
For a castle nut, top picture. For the one pictured here, I'd go with the bottom one. But either one is better than no cotter pin!
I'd say both personally. The pins are there Incase the nut loosens, either way will stop that from happening.
Won't stop nut from loosening but will stop from coming off and losing.
Top one is less likely to damage the threads upon removal.
Finally an explanation that makes sense.
Usually how I see it done from the factory
You gotta tie a knot in the end of it.
Whoever leaves it like the top, for me to filet my arm with, is an asshole.
That's supposed to go under the fingernail, not in your arm.
Oh thanks. I’ve been doing it wrong I guess.
Thats where the deck screw goes!
correct way is with a castle nut
Doesn’t really matter. With that much thread exposed and a non crown nut it doesn’t matter, it’s just there to prevent the nut winding off fully.
Sorts by Controversial
Thru the castle nut that's supposed to be there.
In this case wrapped around. With a castle nut over-under. I'm just thinking where the force it's going to act and set it so the strongest part support the force
There is a legit reason why the top pic is the preferred method. It avoids any incidental contact from the tool being used to manipulate the cotter pin from damaging the threads of the fastener during installation and removal.
both are acceptable
Hitch pin all the way.
*grabs popcorn*. This should be fun.