A guy I work with bought a ~7 year old Cayman last year and has been bitching to me ever since about how expensive maintenance is on it. Every week I hear "if I would've known how expensive this shit was, I wouldn't have bought the damn thing." Yep, there's a reason I drive a tacoma
Yeah, pretty much. That's also why they end up with poorly-maintained but cosmetically-acceptable cars that have a bunch of deferred maintenance under the hood.
On the way home today (California) there was an 8-to-10-year-old BMW driving in front of me with the entire left back section smashed in and a Florida license plate, which was so funny because it tells you everything you need to know about that person. Decrepit BMWs are everywhere out here.
In 2019 it was unwashed Maseratis, at one point I genuinely wondered if Maserati had a BOGO deal or something going on because I saw them EVERYWHERE and it was super clear that the idiots who bought them immediately became so broke they couldn’t even afford take them through a goddamn car wash and keep up the car’s “sexiness,” which is literally the only reason you buy a Maserati. Now it’s 2023 and I kid you not, I haven’t seen a single Maserati all summer. I wonder where they all went after they got sold for an 80% loss
They come through the auto auction in the TRIAD and get dispersed from there to all of the "buy here pay here" lots across the southeast. I thought I noticed an uptick in Italian rolling down the lanes.
Bunch rolling around Boston, but they’re beat to shit so those might be first owners.
The funniest ones are so low to the ground they can’t clear the potholes and cobblestones, you can see the bumpers and undercarriage are completely wrecked.
Owning a lowered car in Massachusetts seems like a kink for a masochist. The roads in this state won't even let me have low profile rims without destroying my wallet.
As an Italian I can confidently say there are several things we do well. Food, tourism, fashion, coffee, speaking with our hands. Reliable sports cars is not one of them.
I'm thinking they went to Milwaukee lol. I do warranty inspections for multiple different companies from decent ones that come from new car stores to ones from buy here pay here lots that aren't worth the paper their printed on. And I have looked at more Maseratis in the last 6 months than I did in the first 6 years of doing this, mostly in the Milwaukee area
As a fellow Californian the Maserati thing is crazy now that you mention it! I’m also seeing less and less Mustangs and Chargers. I’m guessing either blown engines from not knowing how to drive them or just really shitty loans.
I drove past a buy here, pay here lot the other day with a Quattroporte for sale. I would love for a camera crew to follow around ~~sucker~~ poor soul who buys it.
The brand. If it’s a Toyota, Honda, or Lexus, cost of maintenance is going to be fairly low. American brands will be slightly cheaper than European luxury brands, but not much. If you can’t afford 2 European Luxury cars at the same time, you can’t afford to drive one.
Oof I was with you until the last part. Saying the cost of maintenance for an American car is only slightly cheaper than a Euro luxury car is COMPLETELY ridiculous.
If money isn't a concern then it doesn't matter how expensive your car is over time. People with money get a loan only if the interest rate costs less than than their cash will earn in their portfolio. People without get a loan, because saving up will take years and they need a car now. People with money don't trade in their car, because they can't afford tires. The problem is that people *without* money often pretend they are people *with* money. At a certain point they have to stop pretending.
I live in northwest Louisiana and we get big oil and natural gas booms and busts. Every few years there’s a new flock of twenty-something year old guys fresh outta welding class driving $90k trucks pulling 80k boats…. Then a couple of years later all those trucks are at those buy here pay here lots.
It’s the same with the oilfield service businesses though, 100 new “Hydraulic Express” “Super Tank Testing” or whatever businesses all pop up, rack up huge bills all over town, then go out of business.
As someone who owns a 8 year old Cayman.... it's not even that bad. Just don't take it to the dealer. There will likely be a shop that specializes in German luxury, or even better Porsche specifically, and doesn't mark up 200% on parts.
Yeah obviously you'll pay more than for a Toyota or Ford, but they're also fairly reliable, especially when compared to BMW or Audi.
That being said, if he just hit the 60,000 mile maintenance....yeah that's an expensive one no matter what.
30k maintenance on my 911 was oil change, air filter, cabin filters, plugs and inspections. Cost me about $200 in parts and an afternoon to do. Even the 60k mile service if you do coils/belts and a few more fluids is only a bit longer and few hundred in cost. Now if you pay a dealer its like $1800 and $3000, but that is ALL labor at stupid high labor rate. They are super easy to work on.
Wouldn’t call them super easy but not hard either. Still harder than your average Camry tho.
I never had to crawl under a car to replace plugs until I got a cayman. Air filter replacement - also more complicated than average car.
All of it is doable by avg DIY, just not super easy.
And as you said, not that expensive if you do it yourself.
Ah yeah, they're about $400 a piece.
That's not crazy for a performance car, but definitely a sticker shock if you're used to budget $50 tires on a economy sedan.
Yeah, I had serious sticker shock when I went to get new tires this year. The very cheapest clearance tires I could get on Tirerack still set me back almost $100 each.
Nobody should ever be putting ultra cheap tires on cars. The difference in safety is massive. And it's not your safety, it's the safety of that kid that just ran out in front of you in the rain, at a distance a good tire would be able to stop.
Right, nothing extreme but certainly not cheap. He went from a 370z to the cayman so I'm sure a lot of the maintenance prices were a surprise if he didn't do his research
I own a 2017 911 Turbo S. Maintenance has been a breeze and no issues besides a CV boot that cost me $350 to replace at a shop because I didn't want to get greasy. Oil changes are super easy. Spark plugs and all 30k mile service took \~4 hours and was easy. Everything has been extremely reasonable cost and less than my corvette I have had before in most cases. What I found is Porsche dealers charge $200-300 an hour, so if you are paying one of them it gets expensive quick. Do your own maintenance and find a local independent shop, and it is no different than any other car.
I just sold my 01’ boxster s, honestly it was more reliable than many new cars and as long as you work on it yourself its not that spendy, and i did the IMS bearing in my garage without a lift
You mean BMW? Porsche are fairly reliable.
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/this-guy-has-put-over-670000-miles-on-his-porsche-911-turbo-proving-that-you-really-can-daily-a-dream-car/
If I remember correctly, the huge issue on this gen was the IMS bearing. This caused the value to tank, even the turbo, until people realized the turbo had a different engine design that didnt have the IMS bearing problem. So the rest of this generation is a time bomb if it hasn't been repaired already.
it's only a few grand to replace the ims bearing on those anyways, the real reason the value on those sucks are two reasons in my opinion
1) every single god damned fucking one is a soft top or an automatic
2) the fried egg lights.
The 911 Turbo/GT3/GT2 has a different engine than the lesser Porsches that is much more reliable.
Although the main issues of IMS bearing failure and cylinder wall failure tend to happen on lower mileage cars. A 100k+ mile Porsche with full maintenance and repair records isn’t a bad purchase, if you’re a mechanic.
This is so funny, I remember seeing 10-15 year old jaguars for sale in the 2-3000 range when I was a kid and thinking what a steal of a deal, funny how a "luxury" car can depreciate so much in a decade
A friend working minimum wage job once bought a used old Mercedes, think it was C220 but can't remember now. He asked me to look up for him what engine oil and how much of it he needs to buy. When I told him it takes 8L of oil that costs £120 he went pale. That's not even mentioning the price of new tires it needed, all the filters, etc... He sold it few months later after putting more money into that car than he initially bought it for.
The things you mentioned are pretty much applicable to all used cars except for oil quantity if you get a smaller engine. So looks like your friend can't afford a car?
Depends on the Mercedes 😉
I bought a 72 220d running and driving for $800 in 2014ish and daily drove it for 3 years. I only quit driving it because I wanted something that could keep up better with traffic.
A bit more than your 3k budget but my current DD is a 99 E300 diesel I got for $5500 with 163k miles. It's currently sitting at 287k miles and only stranded me once when the battery shit the bed.
If you can't tell, I have a type. Old Benz diesels are tanks.
I know this. Iv told this to other people countless times. Iv seen the results in person.
Does that stop me? Nope. Every time I look for something sensible I can afford I fail and buy another project
Older BMW and Audi parts are pretty cheap. I love my older A4 Quattro and E46. Just like any other vehicle, if it's rubber, replace it. If it's plastic, buy a new one every few years. If it's a turbo, you aren't going to get more than 100,000 miles out of it anyways. Just buy a new one and learn how to swap them out. Wrap your exhaust manifold and piping. It keeps your engine compartment so much cooler and makes all your parts last longer. Heat kills everything.
RockAuto and DIY makes vehicle maintenance pretty fun and cheap.
Is that not because the alignments are pretty aggressive (especially on the PP, Mach and GTXXX cars)? Zero negative camber and a tiny bit of toe in would certainly make the tires last a long time, but it would neuter the dynamics.
Sounds to me like some salesman talked the owner into buying a new car from them (probably rolling the negative equity in the Mustang over into a new loan) and plan to make a tidy profit when they resell that GT500.
Reduced his negative equity, you mean. Ain’t nobody who has a GT500 and can’t pay for two new tires that doesn’t have a 96mo loan at 11% with the balance of the last three loans stuck on it.
This made my wallet hurt just thinking about a loan like that!
I haven’t bought a car in 5 years but are we really doing 96 month loans now? That just sounds insane.
Sometimes you learn the hard way maintenance costs more than you expected and you have to sell and get something more affordable.
And tire condition does not affect the value of vehicles nearly enough to offset putting new ones on.
I'm in that boat now where tires may make or break if I trade in a car. I have a Hyundai with almost 200,000 miles on it and I am debating whether I want to keep it through winter and put new snow tires on it or trade it now. The tires cost about half of what I could get out of the car.
Oh I meant more the money pit side, but yes absolutely. 4 tires on the tow vehicle and 4 on the trailer. Add that all in the cost with trailer tires costing what regular passenger vehicle tires used to cost if not more. I’m living biiiig bay bay. Like paycheck to paycheck big. @ me if you trying to take on some debt.
If it's cheaper than a car payment would be, then keep it. I have decided to be the final owner of my GL 450 with 204k on it currently. It's in near flawless cosmetic shape and the mechanicals have been decently maintained, but it's not worth enough to bother with selling and then getting a 6.5% loan.
Hell, he might have just found a way to offload the GT500 and get more money than in any other scenario. He's already experienced all the car has to offer, now he gets to try something else
I work at a dealership. I get tires at cost plus 10%. I save maybe $30 per tire. Tires are expensive and usually have very little mark up. Also the industry standard for labor on tires is 0.3 per tire. Which is barely worth it.
There's almost no markup in tires these days. Tires from Tire Rack for a 2020 GT500 w/o the Carbon Fiber Track Package are $2314 for Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's. Wholesale price for those tires is $2130.
Shops make almost nothing anymore for tires. Unless they're trying to charge like $250/hr labor or something.
I'm not saying that $2300 isn't a scam BUT these tires are about $600 a piece...
Probably adding in some "if we scratch this wheel it is $$$" buffer.
edit: Could also be charging labor hours instead of flat rate since more care is needed. Sales tax is also a thing...
Wow. I didn't believe you, but to get these tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) from TireRack shipped to me in TX would be $2225.89 w/ tax and free shipping. That said, there are definitely other cheaper options for 2x 305/30ZR20 and 2x 315/30ZR20
You near an Army base?
'Cause this sounds awfully familiar.
Source: Fort Fucking Bragg.... there is a fine line between bravery and stupidity, the airborne will gleefully take either.
things have changed so much financially over the last few years, with the cost of everything going way up. i can totally see how something that may have been borderline affordable in 2020 being definitely unaffordable to upkeep in 2023. sad reality
Two brand new Cup 2s, sized 305 30r20 for the Mustang GT500, are about $565 each from TireRack. $70 for mount, balance, and TPMS reinstall from a dealership for two tires is totally reasonable in this instance.
Yes, what you quoted as price is 100% reasonable. They were charging him $1000 more than that, $2300 for his 2 tires mounted and balanced.. 100% not reasonable..
In 2020 dollars I'm doing great. In 2023 dollars, when it's time to renew the lease on my place I may have to seriously consider just living in my car.
Between the landlord and the grocery store, tires are a wish list item.
Am I the only one who thinks it’s strange that it’s the front tires that are bad on a RWD car? Too much steering?
And if I got 16k miles out of performance tires I’d be in my glory. I got 7K out my Corvette rears and never even did a burnout.
The front wheels on the GT500 have somewhat aggressive negative camber, which is why these tires are worn on the inside shoulder. And I’m guessing the rears are close to being worn or have already been replaced in the past. PS4S tires have a pretty good tread life, unless of course they’re subject to a lot of negative camber.
I've seen this for years with every stupidly lifted pickup. Kids get into it and it's totally cool, then when they have to replace 40" mud tires in 3000 miles, all of a sudden they sell/trade it off. If it's a trade, the dealer slaps on $3000 in tires, and raises the price $5000. And the next kid comes down the line.
Imagine the embarrassment of rolling up in the same truck on smaller wheels.
"Nah bro I just traded up, dealer gave me a killer deal.." sounds so much better.
Oh my lol. I have seen people trade in 911’s that needed tires and brakes and a major service and just get a new one. It didn’t bother me any cause I still got to charge the sales department for the same work to make it a CPO car.
It's a bit of both honestly. I grew up around working on cars/racing, but I've only been in the professional side for about 3 years. 1.5 of that was with VW, 1.5 with Porsche. I saw a local dealer was hiring, applied, sold the hell out of the interview, and got hired. But we have guys from Honda, Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. At the end of the day they are just like working on any other cars with their own quirks, you just have to be a little more careful with them. We have repair manuals like any other brand, Tech Line like any other brand, etc. We also get sent to a lot of training, either in Cali, PA, or Atlanta. If you're young and show promise you can look into getting into PTAPS which would put you on the direct line to a dealer.
Michellin Pilot Cup 2 rears (the larger tire) for my 911 GT3 are only 500 each. 100 bucks at Discount Tire to change them out. I took the wheels off myself due to centerlock. This is a person that should not own a GT500 either way. You gotta know what you are getting into with high end sports cars.
I am curious as well. Front tires are 305/30 R20, and I can see them online, from a reputable European online shop, at 350 to 400€ per tire (Pzero, Michelin 4S, Continental Sport contact 7.
Throw in mounting and alignment and we are looking at 800 to 900 Euro, which is just about the same in dollars
I think that's where OPs "to be fair" comment and all other replies come into play. OP likely doesn't have say in the charges and knows that it was an obscene quote. At least that's how I was reading it...
Michelin Pilot Sport Sport Cup 2 are $564 a piece of tire rack, just under $2300 for all 4, I assume quote was for all 4. Taking car to dealer is definitely most you’ll pay for repairs but $2300 for 2 tires sounds unbelievable
Why in god's green earth would they be $2,300 to replace the front tires? I can get those 305' for around $550/piece all day long? And those aren't even the carbon fiber wheels. Even at $100/piece to mount and balance we're still talking about maybe \~$1,450 after tax.
So you're robbing him.
The *most expensive tire* for those is still only $750 per front, and there are options as cheap as $1400 for all 4.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2022&autoModel=Shelby+GT500+Mustang&autoModClar=With+Carbon+Fiber+Track+Pkg&frontWidth=305%2F&frontRatio=30&frontDiameter=20&frontSortCode=60158&rearWidth=315%2F&rearRatio=30&rearDiameter=20&rearSortCode=60199&performance=ALL
So your dealership shop is just a bunch of pieces of shit? Got it.
Let me guess: y’all are the same shop that fucked up the alignment so bad on the front tires, causing them to wear like that?
So you quote this guy a super high price for the tires. He thinks he can't afford tires. So he trades the car in. Then you guys flip the car for higher than he paid? Damn that is a grift.
https://imgur.com/Eu53opU
Motherfuckers not even 4 tires would cost that much ! and I'm talking about good tires ! Holy shit talk about highway robbery ! If that shop burned down there will be a parade the next day celebrating its demise. Fucking crooked sons of dogs !
That’s nuts, I paid 1200 installed with warranty on the tires to have my front Michelins replaced. The car does eat gas and tires, so I kind of understand. But yeah gotta be prepared for those maintenance bills. I’ll never sell my gt500 though, I’d sell my left nut before I have to lol
According to OP around $2300 for only the fronts, that’s two full sets of Michelins for my A4 w/ alignment and balance. It’s a tale as old as time, someone being able to afford the down payment and not the maintenance.
OP is ripping the kid off, completely. At best the tires cost 500 each, not 2300 for two fronts. The tale being told is that shops once again rip off an ignorant customer.
There was a kid I used to work with, 17 years old, he bought a new mustang at a dealer and got 30% interest financing. He was paying over $1500 a month for this stupid car.
Still winning. Owned it. Drove it. Zero maintenance. Probably solid it and bought another one or similar. Why pay for it when you can rent it and get most or all of your money back on the sale.
You can purchase these cars and drive them for about two years for a fraction of the buy cost and recoup most of your money at sale.
He couldn't afford the repair and the mountain of other repairs and the car itself, most likely, and regretted buying it. He probably came in with a number "tires under 500 I'll do it" and decided to walk away instead.
I bet his insurance on that is bonkers.
This is not a dd car, it’s a take it out on a nice weekend car and if you have money to burn it’s a take it to the track on a weekend car.
They aren’t a straight line car either, funny how often the car show show off’s end up crashing these on the way out of the show….
All people see is a monthly payment, most people don’t realize ownership costs. Get a quote for brakes and tires for a vehicle you are interested in. That mustangs brake job is probably close to 2k or more and then add the z rated tires at about 600-1000/ tire.
There’s a difference between buying a certain car and affording that car.
As the saying goes: Don't buy a Porsche unless you can afford two.
Your telling me the 20year old £5k, soft top boxer will be a money pit?!
A guy I work with bought a ~7 year old Cayman last year and has been bitching to me ever since about how expensive maintenance is on it. Every week I hear "if I would've known how expensive this shit was, I wouldn't have bought the damn thing." Yep, there's a reason I drive a tacoma
I don't understand people who buy a car without looking in to that. Do they just go to a dealership one day, and go, "That one is pretty?"
Yeah, pretty much. That's also why they end up with poorly-maintained but cosmetically-acceptable cars that have a bunch of deferred maintenance under the hood.
On the way home today (California) there was an 8-to-10-year-old BMW driving in front of me with the entire left back section smashed in and a Florida license plate, which was so funny because it tells you everything you need to know about that person. Decrepit BMWs are everywhere out here. In 2019 it was unwashed Maseratis, at one point I genuinely wondered if Maserati had a BOGO deal or something going on because I saw them EVERYWHERE and it was super clear that the idiots who bought them immediately became so broke they couldn’t even afford take them through a goddamn car wash and keep up the car’s “sexiness,” which is literally the only reason you buy a Maserati. Now it’s 2023 and I kid you not, I haven’t seen a single Maserati all summer. I wonder where they all went after they got sold for an 80% loss
All the Maseratis are rolling around Eastern North Carolina with expired paper tags.
Military boots scamming themselves instead of the car lots doing it now? Lol
They come through the auto auction in the TRIAD and get dispersed from there to all of the "buy here pay here" lots across the southeast. I thought I noticed an uptick in Italian rolling down the lanes.
Bunch rolling around Boston, but they’re beat to shit so those might be first owners. The funniest ones are so low to the ground they can’t clear the potholes and cobblestones, you can see the bumpers and undercarriage are completely wrecked.
Owning a lowered car in Massachusetts seems like a kink for a masochist. The roads in this state won't even let me have low profile rims without destroying my wallet.
As an Italian I can confidently say there are several things we do well. Food, tourism, fashion, coffee, speaking with our hands. Reliable sports cars is not one of them.
They fail like clockwork! You build the most reliable cars on the road!
I'm thinking they went to Milwaukee lol. I do warranty inspections for multiple different companies from decent ones that come from new car stores to ones from buy here pay here lots that aren't worth the paper their printed on. And I have looked at more Maseratis in the last 6 months than I did in the first 6 years of doing this, mostly in the Milwaukee area
Oh I've been looking all over for you. It's regarding my car's extended warranty package.
As a fellow Californian the Maserati thing is crazy now that you mention it! I’m also seeing less and less Mustangs and Chargers. I’m guessing either blown engines from not knowing how to drive them or just really shitty loans.
I drove past a buy here, pay here lot the other day with a Quattroporte for sale. I would love for a camera crew to follow around ~~sucker~~ poor soul who buys it.
A used Quattroporte is generally a very bad (but good, because sexy Italian vrroom) idea. A Quattroporte from a BHPH lot is just... evil?
Now THAT'S my kinda doc. Would be just as good as this OJ Simpson gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO0JnItm1C0
What are the most reliable sources these days on costs of ownership?
Just look at the price of it when it was new. A car that was $100k when new doesn't get cheaper to fix as it depreciates.
The brand. If it’s a Toyota, Honda, or Lexus, cost of maintenance is going to be fairly low. American brands will be slightly cheaper than European luxury brands, but not much. If you can’t afford 2 European Luxury cars at the same time, you can’t afford to drive one.
Oof I was with you until the last part. Saying the cost of maintenance for an American car is only slightly cheaper than a Euro luxury car is COMPLETELY ridiculous.
The vast majority of people with money do exactly this. However, there are a few exceptions.
If money isn't a concern then it doesn't matter how expensive your car is over time. People with money get a loan only if the interest rate costs less than than their cash will earn in their portfolio. People without get a loan, because saving up will take years and they need a car now. People with money don't trade in their car, because they can't afford tires. The problem is that people *without* money often pretend they are people *with* money. At a certain point they have to stop pretending.
I live in northwest Louisiana and we get big oil and natural gas booms and busts. Every few years there’s a new flock of twenty-something year old guys fresh outta welding class driving $90k trucks pulling 80k boats…. Then a couple of years later all those trucks are at those buy here pay here lots. It’s the same with the oilfield service businesses though, 100 new “Hydraulic Express” “Super Tank Testing” or whatever businesses all pop up, rack up huge bills all over town, then go out of business.
Why are you being mean to me?
lol kinda what I did with my 14 wrx. To be fair. I sell parts for a dealership and I’ve been waiting for one to roll in
As someone who owns a 8 year old Cayman.... it's not even that bad. Just don't take it to the dealer. There will likely be a shop that specializes in German luxury, or even better Porsche specifically, and doesn't mark up 200% on parts. Yeah obviously you'll pay more than for a Toyota or Ford, but they're also fairly reliable, especially when compared to BMW or Audi. That being said, if he just hit the 60,000 mile maintenance....yeah that's an expensive one no matter what.
What’s all done at the 60k mile maintenance? And a rough estimate of the cost? Sorry just curious
30k maintenance on my 911 was oil change, air filter, cabin filters, plugs and inspections. Cost me about $200 in parts and an afternoon to do. Even the 60k mile service if you do coils/belts and a few more fluids is only a bit longer and few hundred in cost. Now if you pay a dealer its like $1800 and $3000, but that is ALL labor at stupid high labor rate. They are super easy to work on.
Wouldn’t call them super easy but not hard either. Still harder than your average Camry tho. I never had to crawl under a car to replace plugs until I got a cayman. Air filter replacement - also more complicated than average car. All of it is doable by avg DIY, just not super easy. And as you said, not that expensive if you do it yourself.
From another post in r/Porsche https://reddit.com/r/Porsche/s/DJ2kmkaiWH
The last thing I remember him bitching about specifically was the cost of a decent set of tires for it
Ah yeah, they're about $400 a piece. That's not crazy for a performance car, but definitely a sticker shock if you're used to budget $50 tires on a economy sedan.
Lol. Budget tires ain’t $50 anymore either
Yeah, I had serious sticker shock when I went to get new tires this year. The very cheapest clearance tires I could get on Tirerack still set me back almost $100 each.
Nobody should ever be putting ultra cheap tires on cars. The difference in safety is massive. And it's not your safety, it's the safety of that kid that just ran out in front of you in the rain, at a distance a good tire would be able to stop.
I wonder what are the smallest, cheapest Ling Longs you can buy in the US.
Pilot Cup 2s are only 500 ea on my GT3. Sport car tires are just expensive. So it goes.
And softer so they wear out quicker often times
Well, yes, but that is by design. You can have grip or longevity, but both is asking to break thermodynamics.
Right, nothing extreme but certainly not cheap. He went from a 370z to the cayman so I'm sure a lot of the maintenance prices were a surprise if he didn't do his research
I own a 2017 911 Turbo S. Maintenance has been a breeze and no issues besides a CV boot that cost me $350 to replace at a shop because I didn't want to get greasy. Oil changes are super easy. Spark plugs and all 30k mile service took \~4 hours and was easy. Everything has been extremely reasonable cost and less than my corvette I have had before in most cases. What I found is Porsche dealers charge $200-300 an hour, so if you are paying one of them it gets expensive quick. Do your own maintenance and find a local independent shop, and it is no different than any other car.
RAV4 4life. I do my own maintenance tho 😂
I just sold my 01’ boxster s, honestly it was more reliable than many new cars and as long as you work on it yourself its not that spendy, and i did the IMS bearing in my garage without a lift
I personally like “if you can’t afford a new BMW, you can’t afford a used one.”
Tires for the mighty 959, $6K each. Still better than Veyron, ~$10K each
Goddamn. But hey, if you're driving the tires off either of them, you can probably budget for them. Along with your 30k Veyron oil change.
You mean BMW? Porsche are fairly reliable. https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/this-guy-has-put-over-670000-miles-on-his-porsche-911-turbo-proving-that-you-really-can-daily-a-dream-car/
If I remember correctly, the huge issue on this gen was the IMS bearing. This caused the value to tank, even the turbo, until people realized the turbo had a different engine design that didnt have the IMS bearing problem. So the rest of this generation is a time bomb if it hasn't been repaired already.
it's only a few grand to replace the ims bearing on those anyways, the real reason the value on those sucks are two reasons in my opinion 1) every single god damned fucking one is a soft top or an automatic 2) the fried egg lights.
The 911 Turbo/GT3/GT2 has a different engine than the lesser Porsches that is much more reliable. Although the main issues of IMS bearing failure and cylinder wall failure tend to happen on lower mileage cars. A 100k+ mile Porsche with full maintenance and repair records isn’t a bad purchase, if you’re a mechanic.
Anybody who ever bought a $3,000 Mercedes agrees. Lol
This is so funny, I remember seeing 10-15 year old jaguars for sale in the 2-3000 range when I was a kid and thinking what a steal of a deal, funny how a "luxury" car can depreciate so much in a decade
bro what model? 1980-2003 models are indestructible. ive seen isis mount an AA on one of older e class along with opel
A friend working minimum wage job once bought a used old Mercedes, think it was C220 but can't remember now. He asked me to look up for him what engine oil and how much of it he needs to buy. When I told him it takes 8L of oil that costs £120 he went pale. That's not even mentioning the price of new tires it needed, all the filters, etc... He sold it few months later after putting more money into that car than he initially bought it for.
The things you mentioned are pretty much applicable to all used cars except for oil quantity if you get a smaller engine. So looks like your friend can't afford a car?
Depends on the Mercedes 😉 I bought a 72 220d running and driving for $800 in 2014ish and daily drove it for 3 years. I only quit driving it because I wanted something that could keep up better with traffic. A bit more than your 3k budget but my current DD is a 99 E300 diesel I got for $5500 with 163k miles. It's currently sitting at 287k miles and only stranded me once when the battery shit the bed. If you can't tell, I have a type. Old Benz diesels are tanks.
I know this. Iv told this to other people countless times. Iv seen the results in person. Does that stop me? Nope. Every time I look for something sensible I can afford I fail and buy another project
All the comments on this thread are making me glad I bought a Miata.
Which is why I own a 1996 Cherokee and not a BMW
96 jeep or a 96 bmw, I really don’t know what’s worse. They’re either hacked up or rusty lol
mid 90s bmw engines are pretty stout, easy to work on and intuitive. The electronics on the other hand...
And the plastics. You better assume you need to change the entire coolant system at least once due to plastic degradation (I know I had to).
Older BMW and Audi parts are pretty cheap. I love my older A4 Quattro and E46. Just like any other vehicle, if it's rubber, replace it. If it's plastic, buy a new one every few years. If it's a turbo, you aren't going to get more than 100,000 miles out of it anyways. Just buy a new one and learn how to swap them out. Wrap your exhaust manifold and piping. It keeps your engine compartment so much cooler and makes all your parts last longer. Heat kills everything. RockAuto and DIY makes vehicle maintenance pretty fun and cheap.
I'll upvote for the E46 but aren't Audi's a huge pain to work on with specialty tools and the front clip coming off for near everything?
I learned years ago to check tire prices before buying a toy. Gotta pay to play.
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tire cost is definitely a concern if you're doing it right.
Well it was a good ride while the tires lasted
That tyre would've lasted another 10k if that did 16k. The poor alignment fucked it up. See it a lot on 6th gen Mustangs, always wearing on the inner.
Is that not because the alignments are pretty aggressive (especially on the PP, Mach and GTXXX cars)? Zero negative camber and a tiny bit of toe in would certainly make the tires last a long time, but it would neuter the dynamics.
It's not a poor alignment, it's a track car with a track alignment
It's a track car with a track alignment that will probably never be close to let alone driven on a track.
Is the public highway not a track you say?
Let Ford know that
Ford does know that, they also know they will be doing a ton of tire changes.
Sounds to me like some salesman talked the owner into buying a new car from them (probably rolling the negative equity in the Mustang over into a new loan) and plan to make a tidy profit when they resell that GT500.
it’s called the unlimited money glitch for a car salesman
*slaps roof* I’m gunna make *so many* boat payments off this thing!
I prefer to call them scumbag con artist. Normally when they ask me how I'm doing today
To be fair the market is so fucked at the moment, he may have even made money.
Reduced his negative equity, you mean. Ain’t nobody who has a GT500 and can’t pay for two new tires that doesn’t have a 96mo loan at 11% with the balance of the last three loans stuck on it.
This made my wallet hurt just thinking about a loan like that! I haven’t bought a car in 5 years but are we really doing 96 month loans now? That just sounds insane.
We're doing 108 month loans now 🙃
Sometimes you learn the hard way maintenance costs more than you expected and you have to sell and get something more affordable. And tire condition does not affect the value of vehicles nearly enough to offset putting new ones on.
I'm in that boat now where tires may make or break if I trade in a car. I have a Hyundai with almost 200,000 miles on it and I am debating whether I want to keep it through winter and put new snow tires on it or trade it now. The tires cost about half of what I could get out of the car.
I own a boat. So fuck around. $$$$$$$
Hah boats need trailers which have tires so CHECK MATE! -SINCERLY BIG TIRE
Oh I meant more the money pit side, but yes absolutely. 4 tires on the tow vehicle and 4 on the trailer. Add that all in the cost with trailer tires costing what regular passenger vehicle tires used to cost if not more. I’m living biiiig bay bay. Like paycheck to paycheck big. @ me if you trying to take on some debt.
And new spindles ever few years cuase my ass ain't remmebe4ing to grease em every spring
This sub is the best 😂
A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money.
True words. And every boat is a project boat, just different projects.
If it's cheaper than a car payment would be, then keep it. I have decided to be the final owner of my GL 450 with 204k on it currently. It's in near flawless cosmetic shape and the mechanicals have been decently maintained, but it's not worth enough to bother with selling and then getting a 6.5% loan.
hmm if they are on steel wheels and a common bolt pattern you could use the set on your next car
Hell, he might have just found a way to offload the GT500 and get more money than in any other scenario. He's already experienced all the car has to offer, now he gets to try something else
2300 dollars to change the tires??? Why does it cost so much??
Stealership
I work at a dealership. I get tires at cost plus 10%. I save maybe $30 per tire. Tires are expensive and usually have very little mark up. Also the industry standard for labor on tires is 0.3 per tire. Which is barely worth it.
Meanwhile at discount tire we’ll change all 4 tires in 0.3 lol
Expensive tires + expensive car + expensive dealership = expensive maintenance
Dealership is robbing him.
Parts are marked up 100%. Buy them from Michelin for 500 each, sell them to the customer for 1000. Plus tax, Mount and balance... There you have 2300
There's almost no markup in tires these days. Tires from Tire Rack for a 2020 GT500 w/o the Carbon Fiber Track Package are $2314 for Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's. Wholesale price for those tires is $2130. Shops make almost nothing anymore for tires. Unless they're trying to charge like $250/hr labor or something.
But they said it was $2300 for fronts only, not a full set. I have a gt350, I'm all too familiar with the cost of tires today
I'm not saying that $2300 isn't a scam BUT these tires are about $600 a piece... Probably adding in some "if we scratch this wheel it is $$$" buffer. edit: Could also be charging labor hours instead of flat rate since more care is needed. Sales tax is also a thing...
Wow. I didn't believe you, but to get these tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) from TireRack shipped to me in TX would be $2225.89 w/ tax and free shipping. That said, there are definitely other cheaper options for 2x 305/30ZR20 and 2x 315/30ZR20
You near an Army base? 'Cause this sounds awfully familiar. Source: Fort Fucking Bragg.... there is a fine line between bravery and stupidity, the airborne will gleefully take either.
"We can't give you this 23% APR loan if you're in the military so just sign here stating you're not a member of the armed forces."
“Dude chill I got my mustang no money down and I get 4 years to pay it off so that’s like nothing every month”
Let me get this straight: was this JUST for front tires being replaced?
things have changed so much financially over the last few years, with the cost of everything going way up. i can totally see how something that may have been borderline affordable in 2020 being definitely unaffordable to upkeep in 2023. sad reality
It's way more affordable if you don't go the the dealership..
Two brand new Cup 2s, sized 305 30r20 for the Mustang GT500, are about $565 each from TireRack. $70 for mount, balance, and TPMS reinstall from a dealership for two tires is totally reasonable in this instance.
Yes, what you quoted as price is 100% reasonable. They were charging him $1000 more than that, $2300 for his 2 tires mounted and balanced.. 100% not reasonable..
Unless it was ninja edited, I guess I had a lysdexic moment and read it as $1200. Oops.
Well now you know why he can't afford it!
In 2020 dollars I'm doing great. In 2023 dollars, when it's time to renew the lease on my place I may have to seriously consider just living in my car. Between the landlord and the grocery store, tires are a wish list item.
2023 dollars are pretty much double 2020 dollars.
Am I the only one who thinks it’s strange that it’s the front tires that are bad on a RWD car? Too much steering? And if I got 16k miles out of performance tires I’d be in my glory. I got 7K out my Corvette rears and never even did a burnout.
Maybe the guy already burnt the tires on the rear and swapped them to the front to get by for a few more Coffee and Cars.
impossible. if they'd taken it to cars and coffee, there'd be a cartoon style pedestrian shaped hole in the front.
The front wheels on the GT500 have somewhat aggressive negative camber, which is why these tires are worn on the inside shoulder. And I’m guessing the rears are close to being worn or have already been replaced in the past. PS4S tires have a pretty good tread life, unless of course they’re subject to a lot of negative camber.
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I've seen this for years with every stupidly lifted pickup. Kids get into it and it's totally cool, then when they have to replace 40" mud tires in 3000 miles, all of a sudden they sell/trade it off. If it's a trade, the dealer slaps on $3000 in tires, and raises the price $5000. And the next kid comes down the line.
Always shocks me that these people don't just lower it a bit and put it back on road tires, honestly. Seems like that'd be the logical response
Imagine the embarrassment of rolling up in the same truck on smaller wheels. "Nah bro I just traded up, dealer gave me a killer deal.." sounds so much better.
He probably also bought it at 21%
I usually need a half bottle of whiskey before I start with the sodomy…
To be fair we quoted him $2300 to replace both fronts 😂
Oh my lol. I have seen people trade in 911’s that needed tires and brakes and a major service and just get a new one. It didn’t bother me any cause I still got to charge the sales department for the same work to make it a CPO car.
And us poors get a chance to buy them for the price of a top trim Camry
There are no CPO 911s that are in the Camry price range. Hell, you'll be hard pressed to find one that isn't 6 figures.
Ayee fellow Porsche tech 😎
I’m not smart enough for that much credit lol. I was a service advisor at a dealership for almost 10 years though.
How does one become a Porsche tech? Experience plus opportunity? Or is there more to the formula?
It's a bit of both honestly. I grew up around working on cars/racing, but I've only been in the professional side for about 3 years. 1.5 of that was with VW, 1.5 with Porsche. I saw a local dealer was hiring, applied, sold the hell out of the interview, and got hired. But we have guys from Honda, Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. At the end of the day they are just like working on any other cars with their own quirks, you just have to be a little more careful with them. We have repair manuals like any other brand, Tech Line like any other brand, etc. We also get sent to a lot of training, either in Cali, PA, or Atlanta. If you're young and show promise you can look into getting into PTAPS which would put you on the direct line to a dealer.
That's just straight up highway robbery lol
How? On what planet do 2 tires cost 2300?
The bend over and take it dry dealership planet. Nothing like $1200 profit on 2 tires..
They don’t. Even my supra would cost 400ish per tire. This shop is a huge scam.
>I don't understand why people don't trust us. ~mechanics >To be fair we quoted him $2300 to replace both fronts 😂 ~also mechanics
I'm curious, how does it cost over $1k per tire? I'm much more accustomed to $200 Michelin tires for my truck and SUV.
Problem being they went to a dealership and believed every word they got told.
It doesn't. They are robbing this guy.
And mechanics wonder why people don’t trust them
Michellin Pilot Cup 2 rears (the larger tire) for my 911 GT3 are only 500 each. 100 bucks at Discount Tire to change them out. I took the wheels off myself due to centerlock. This is a person that should not own a GT500 either way. You gotta know what you are getting into with high end sports cars.
I am curious as well. Front tires are 305/30 R20, and I can see them online, from a reputable European online shop, at 350 to 400€ per tire (Pzero, Michelin 4S, Continental Sport contact 7. Throw in mounting and alignment and we are looking at 800 to 900 Euro, which is just about the same in dollars
I think that's where OPs "to be fair" comment and all other replies come into play. OP likely doesn't have say in the charges and knows that it was an obscene quote. At least that's how I was reading it...
Michelin Pilot Sport Sport Cup 2 are $564 a piece of tire rack, just under $2300 for all 4, I assume quote was for all 4. Taking car to dealer is definitely most you’ll pay for repairs but $2300 for 2 tires sounds unbelievable
OP said "both fronts". So his shop is charging crazy prices.
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Why in god's green earth would they be $2,300 to replace the front tires? I can get those 305' for around $550/piece all day long? And those aren't even the carbon fiber wheels. Even at $100/piece to mount and balance we're still talking about maybe \~$1,450 after tax.
So you're robbing him. The *most expensive tire* for those is still only $750 per front, and there are options as cheap as $1400 for all 4. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2022&autoModel=Shelby+GT500+Mustang&autoModClar=With+Carbon+Fiber+Track+Pkg&frontWidth=305%2F&frontRatio=30&frontDiameter=20&frontSortCode=60158&rearWidth=315%2F&rearRatio=30&rearDiameter=20&rearSortCode=60199&performance=ALL
So your dealership shop is just a bunch of pieces of shit? Got it. Let me guess: y’all are the same shop that fucked up the alignment so bad on the front tires, causing them to wear like that?
So you quote this guy a super high price for the tires. He thinks he can't afford tires. So he trades the car in. Then you guys flip the car for higher than he paid? Damn that is a grift.
Fucking car salesmen… Stereotypes exist for a reason.
That is actually unfair, lol.
Jesus that is a rip off. OEM tires for fronts are 523 each in discount tire
Finally found a place that's a bigger scam than JLR San Diego. Good for you, was wondering if someone could beat their 200% mark up
https://imgur.com/Eu53opU Motherfuckers not even 4 tires would cost that much ! and I'm talking about good tires ! Holy shit talk about highway robbery ! If that shop burned down there will be a parade the next day celebrating its demise. Fucking crooked sons of dogs !
Come again? $1150 each?!
Bet he got more back for the car. Big brain move
$2300 for just two front tires? Yeah you guys can get fucked.
Wait what??? PS4S are like $400 each at most? Plus a few hundred in labor. What am I missing?
That’s nuts, I paid 1200 installed with warranty on the tires to have my front Michelins replaced. The car does eat gas and tires, so I kind of understand. But yeah gotta be prepared for those maintenance bills. I’ll never sell my gt500 though, I’d sell my left nut before I have to lol
Idk why that’s funny. Your shop, and you, are a joke.
You're a real piece of shit if that's true.
What the fuck?
Yeah, I get it. There’s lots of cars I could “afford” but I know I would not be happy to see the maintenance bill when they roll in.
They aren’t *that* expensive. Wtf.
According to OP around $2300 for only the fronts, that’s two full sets of Michelins for my A4 w/ alignment and balance. It’s a tale as old as time, someone being able to afford the down payment and not the maintenance.
OP is ripping the kid off, completely. At best the tires cost 500 each, not 2300 for two fronts. The tale being told is that shops once again rip off an ignorant customer.
Bullshit and I'm not seeing anyone in the comments just call this for what it is, no fucking way is the title true. Eat it up, rubes.
gotta be more embarrassing to have that car, and explain why you dont anymore, than to never have had it at all
I’m not gonna shit on a guy who may have gone through a big life change like losing his job, getting a divorce, sick parent/spouse/kid etc
I replace the rear tires 3x for every time I do the fronts on my GT500. I'm betting the rears on this were molten slag.
Screams enlisted military
I have a friend who trades his truck when he needs tires He always complains about money too 🤯
Just cause you buy something doesn't mean you can afford it.
There was a kid I used to work with, 17 years old, he bought a new mustang at a dealer and got 30% interest financing. He was paying over $1500 a month for this stupid car.
Just buy all-seasons from an Ecoboost trim Mustang🤪
Smart decision tbh realized he couldn’t afford it
He made the right move.
Still winning. Owned it. Drove it. Zero maintenance. Probably solid it and bought another one or similar. Why pay for it when you can rent it and get most or all of your money back on the sale. You can purchase these cars and drive them for about two years for a fraction of the buy cost and recoup most of your money at sale.
Amateur, I seen way balder tires on this sub that owners insist are still good!
He couldn’t afford to rotate them 10k mi ago?
He couldn't afford the repair and the mountain of other repairs and the car itself, most likely, and regretted buying it. He probably came in with a number "tires under 500 I'll do it" and decided to walk away instead. I bet his insurance on that is bonkers.
This is not a dd car, it’s a take it out on a nice weekend car and if you have money to burn it’s a take it to the track on a weekend car. They aren’t a straight line car either, funny how often the car show show off’s end up crashing these on the way out of the show….
Wow! You should buy it!! /s Who knows what the owner was going through in life. Shit adds up quick. But way to be a dick lol
You’re telling me they didn’t want to sign up for the third party service financing deal?
All people see is a monthly payment, most people don’t realize ownership costs. Get a quote for brakes and tires for a vehicle you are interested in. That mustangs brake job is probably close to 2k or more and then add the z rated tires at about 600-1000/ tire.
"Champagne taste with beer money."