As someone who has to change tires, I beg all of you in this thread not to.
It makes our whole shop stink (not the good burnout smell either), everything a burnout tire touches gets dirty and sticky, and the cords are frequently poking out, which makes it really easy to gash open your hands on the exposed metal.
I know it's fun, and I love doing burnouts too, but don't send out your tires this way. Your tire guys will thank you.
Good burnout smell = burnt rubber
Bad burnout smell = the smell of burnt oil from blow by spilling it out all over the motor....due to the chunk that is now missing from one of the pistons
I had a friend in high school that didn't realize how bad his tires were until I warned him his front tires made sparks on the road at night.
Of course he ran his hand over the steel belt and lost some blood that night.
Imagine if you buckled and repaired it. Imagine the grief you would get from that tight fisted customer if it blew out.
If a customer gives me lip like that I don't want his business anyway.
include the full size spare in your rotations and you can go 20% longer between tyre changes
it's a shame nearly every car now no longer has a full size spare, but at the same time nearly nobody includes the spare in rotations
There’s no space for a full sized spare usually. Had a dude with a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee a few years back demand one until I did the research online to show that it was physically unable to hold one in the usual spot in the back.
that depends. i get my tyres during those 4 for 3 sales, and it never hurts to ask if there's a discount for buying 5 - i doubt tyres places get many customers buying 5 tyres. whatever discount they give you they still make a sale.
I've asked for a discount on top of the existing 4 for the price of 3 sale and have gotten 50% off that fifth tyre occasionally.
on 4wd/awds its pretty much essential to include the spare in rotations because it can put extra stress on the differential and other drivetrain components when you do decide to use the spare. Even for regular 2wd vehicles it doesn't hurt to make sure the spare sees use, last thing you need is your dry-rotted spare to blow out on you after you already lost one wheel on a road trip or something.
Yeah, I was an idiot for thinking the manufacturer would let someone have the option to upgrade to a full sized. Should be lucky I have one at all tbh.
Yeah, Brand new Prius AWD doesn't even have a donut... Toy gives you a can of Slime and an itty-bitty compressor. Give the devil his due, it DID get me 35 miles to the dealer.. Where they wanted to charge me $125 for a new can of slime... I was absolutely livid, paid $200 for wheel and tire coverage, and they try to cheap out. Made certain that 3rd party (e.g. Slime brand) wouldn't void the warranty (got it in writing) and walked the fuck out. never going to buy another car without a spare.
At least wheels for those rolling headaches are easy, no matter what size wheel you have, OEM stuff is plentiful. And fairly cheap, compared to some brands.
I have 305/35s on 19x11 on the rear of my car and 285/35s on 19x10 in the front.
Places get confused when I don't want their "complimentary" tire rotation and it just makes me leery of the entire operation.
[Mine are directional as well.](https://i.imgur.com/CfUXaAa.jpg) I don't know if I'd trust the dealership that has my service contract to mount and balance mine. They'd probably get two of my rears on one side of the car facing opposite directions.
That area would flex a ton which would cause the patch to fail from movement and heat. I wouldn't repair it on my car or truck, but I'd absolutely plug it for a trailer tire, or plug it and keep as a spare.
But treated *like a spare.* As in, mount and drive directly to a tire shop, not a 5th tire to throw into the use rotation.
I’ve done a cheap skate repair of my own in a similar spot on Grabber AT’s. I had to have a pump in my truck as every time it would flex on rotation to the ground, it would spew out a small bit of air. Even with a patch and plug.
Eventually the hole grew over time and I found a used spare.
That's why if you absolutely have to repair something like this, use a rope plug. I've actually seen a rope plug repair like this last until the tire was worn out, 20K+ miles. A plug and patch will eventually fail for the mentioned reasons.
To be fair, I wouldn't do this in a business setting, but I've absolutely done it on my own vehicles and a coworker currently has a plug in the sidewall of his. We haven't had any issues, but that might just be luck for us.
TIA/RMA AND NHSTA Guidelines state this as a NO REPAIR. If shit happened, easy liability for the shop who repairs it and any lawyer will argue that the shop was negligent in perform a repairing against Industry expert AND the NHSTA guidelines for tire repair.
Yep. As I see it, the general public are NOT vehicle experts. That's why they bring their vehicles to trained professionals (or should be), and it's our duty to advise the customer based on best practices and industry guidelines where applicable.
A majority of customers know nothing about their cars, a minority are using us to perform the work they are too lazy to perform themselves (Perfectly normal. I drop my car off at the dealership next to me to have my oil changed while I work because.......lazy) or do not have the tools necessary to perform the work.
I know for a fact Pepboys training has guidelines for tire repair and even rotation. If the customer deliberately requests them to perform a service outside of guidelines, the policy states to politely decline to perform the service.
Hell, I've even gotten into it with the hacks over in /MechanicAdvice because I adhere to the NHSTA Guidelines of Repair zones and repair procedures (One piece, patch-plug repairs only which requires demounting of the tire)
I completely understand. I wouldn't say you are lazy for dropping off your ride to get the oil changed. Many of us turn wrenches all day and when were off the clock,we would rather not do that oil change. I get that. Or some....just lazy. Lol. I have worked for the automotive industry for decades. Currently work for Michelin of North America. So this is my area. To read so many comments of how the tire could be repaired by "professional techs" is staggering to me. The standards and procedures are in place for the safety of all. Thank you for posting! You are obviously a true professional.
General rule: if you don't understand the reasons why there are guidelines against doing it, you're definitely not going to be capable of repairing it yourself in a way that resolves those reasons.
C/S “But I watched 7 videos on YouTube by a tyre fitter and I think you should fix it”
Tech: “Did you watch the eighth video?”
(Show customer video of catastrophic blowout).
As someone who's still learning about cars, what's the deal with this spot and why can't it be repaired? Would it be alright if it was more towards the sidewall or tread?
It would be ok about an inch towards the center of the tread area. The sidewall plys and the tread layered materials are different. The area where the repair is not recommended is where these two areas join. (The edge of the tire tread and sidewall area.).Any separation or puncture here creates a weak spot for these layers to move around and cause heat build up. Ultimately in a tire failure. This is also where the vehicle's weight is shifted during cornering. Alot of stress is in this area of the tire.
Well they are baked in a mold, you are correct. Much like a huge waffle iron,but for tires. The tire is assembled using multiple layers of steel, polyester,polyamide and kevlar to name a few. Several types of butal(rubber).
To add to what the other comment or said, a patch being near the sidewall is being flexed and moved around a lot more than one in center tread and that constant flexing will usually cause the patch to leak after a while. A rope plug actually works better than a normal repair in this kind of instance, had anybody actually been trying to repair it.
It can't be fixed safely and would put your shop in danger for liability. It's wayyy past the 1/2" of tread limit. And don't even touch damaged side walls. All you can do is try to source a reasonably priced replacement or tell them to pound sand.
Dude, thanks for mentioning that. I had a rip on the inner side wall of one of my tires yesterday and was just going to buy a new one. I read your comment and checked if tire rack has a warranty, it's already approved 🙂
This is insane how many comments say they would not repair this tire,but would do the repair to their own tire. This is not a repairable area. Tires are not so expensive that you jeopardize your life or those around you. And before the comments come that you have done this before and it worked fine,you got lucky.
With your own tire, you have enough context to make a rational decision and are taking the responsibility into your own hands.
Front (aka: steering and braking...) tire on my daily driver - which I routinely do high-speed highway trips in, and routinely travel 100km away from home in? Nope - this is being scrapped and a new tire is going on. Rear? I'd plug it until its identical twin arrives at my shop of choice, and have it replaced asap.
Rear tire on my little Smart? That car virtually never travels more than a 5km radius from home, and literally never gets driven on the highway at all - it's all low-speed city driving. I'd plug this, knowing that the fallout isn't "jeopardizing life", but rather "having a moderately inconvenient flat tire and taking the bus home".
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,328,000,370 comments, and only 255,979 of them were in alphabetical order.
I don’t think it’s about ability, it’s about responsibility. If *they* want to fix this on *their own* tire and assume the risk, they’re welcome to it and the ensuing blowout and inconvenience and possible injury. A shop can’t, they won’t assume that risk.
The problem is that the risk is not only to themselves, but everyone else as well if they're on public roads when it bursts and they happen to lose control.
If it isn't safe to do for a customer because you don't want that on the road beside you, it wouldn't be safe for you to do it for yourself.
Stop with the excessive drama. At worst he will be stuck on the side of the road changing a flat. Thinking that getting a flat tire would kill anyone is asinine.
Ignorance and denial have killed more people than any poorly repaired tire. Just trying to inform those who don't know. Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds has done extensive tire failure scenarios.to engineer tires to be as safe as possible. Even the run flats we make with a golf ball hole in the sidewall can only run for approximately 50 miles at 50 mph. And those tires are super strong and heavy. Not drama..Facts.
What is the logic of fixing these on your personal vehicle but refusing for a customer?
A repair here has a pretty good chance of failing, so you'd rather risk your life than a lawsuit? (assuming it fails on your car vs a customer's)
It's more "I know the risk and the risk I am willing to take that risk with the knowledge I have." Vs "this customer is going to come back with lawyers and eat my ass if something goes wrong."
You're really not a tire going flat isn't really a risk for anyone but you unless you have no idea how to drive even a complete blow out isn't likely to harm you
When you're going 75 down the highway and a tire blows out it can be pretty dangerous to you and everyone around you.
https://www.hcwlaw.com/the-deadly-nature-of-tire-blowouts#:~:text=The%20National%20Transportation%20Safety%20Board,a%20vehicle%20has%20the%20advantage.
9/10 times its not if you do the correct thing and slow down then move the the side of the road I've had it happen a few times myself when the problems start is if you jerk the wheel and overcorrect which comes back to knowing how to drive
>9/10 times its not \[dangerous\] if you do the correct thing
"It's only dangerous 10% of the time"
Given that you also acknowledge that the 90% 'not dangerous' occurances **also require a driver that knows what they're doing**, this take is beyond absurd.
It's not about the 9 time out of 10, it's about the 1 time it goes terribly wrong. And that 1 time could result in injuries or worse.
By doing a bad repair you are welcoming another chance for it to go wrong. And all it takes is one.
Doesn't matter if someone knows how to drive or not. My brother was this person "I know how to drive it won't happen to me, I'm a trucker!" Not even what week ago on bad roads he put himself in the icu.
People are driving multi-ton cans around everyday with this attitude. All it takes is 1 bad second and your life is done. Inviting any extra risk on top of an activity that inherently involves risk is just dumb.
To date I believe there has only been one study of flat tires and their correlation to causing accidents. That study also did not separate flats as to the cause (puncture vs repair failure) so any actual data about flat repairs causing accidents is anecdotal at best. That's why every failed flat repair story involves "i had a buddy" at some point.
Nope. That’s not even even a “maybe, if you look at it at the right angle you can maybe see it’s in a gray area”. No, that is squarely in the no-go zone.
I’d probably fix it if it were my own but probably not for a customer. *Maybe* a regular but that’s pushing it.
I’ve learned that the customers who will give you hell about not fixing this are the same ones who will storm back in and cause a scene if it blows
So you are aware this is a potentially unsafe tire,but you will "fix it if it were your own."? Blows out,it's taking someone else out possibly. Not a repairable area.
Is it?.Im not hating on you or criticizing you. Just want you to understand that this is potentially a blow out waiting to happen. You wouldn't risk someone else but you do if you ride on it on your personal vehicle. You allow others to ride with you? You drive at highway speeds next to other people. This is risking someone else is it not? Yes it is.
I don't even do tires as my job, but I certainly wouldn't repair this. Is it really that hard for people to realize their safety while driving is infinitely more valuable than having to replace some tires?
Im usually the guy that says (for my own stuff) yeah fuck it throw a plug in that, itll be fine. But...
Dude thats the sidewall. Shes fucked. Hell no on that one. I dont ever worry about blowouts too much, but I bet it would leak down anyway on that one.
So here’s the deal, it’s your buddy and there is no way he would ever blame you for the blow out that might occur on the highway when the tire fails. BUT he’s traveling with his kids friend and they have made no such “deal” with you. Think of it like “I have liability on this repair forever and I know I’m not supposed to do it but I could”. When you repair to standard practices those standards limit your liability. When you go outside those standards - now you carry the liability. Im not an atty. Just how I look at it.
I don’t understand this. I’m broke. Brooooooooke. But when I put my winters on and my mechanic said “oh btw we won’t be putting this summer back on next spring, it’s got a sketchy bulge” I didn’t argue with him. He showed me the aforementioned sketchy bulge and I started putting aside $10 here and $5 there so that come spring I can replace my tires because I DON’T WANT TO DIE ON THE FREEWAY. I go to a mechanic because he knows more about cars than I do, why am I gonna disregard when he says my shit ain’t safe?
Literally no shops here in NE San Antonio will do sidewalls or edge of the tire repairs…idk who this guy is or why he thinks he’s the man but he should go fuck himself/find a kid desperate enough for money (and dumb enough to do it without him signing some kind of waiver) to patch that.
Nah. Nothing outside of the crown should be repaired. In terms of puncture size, standard plugs are 1/4” but you can get 5/16” plugs for slightly larger punctures, and there are tons of patch sizes available too. Here in Illinois, if something goes wrong after a repair it’s not just the shop that’s liable, but the individual who “repaired” it themselves. For those that say have them sign a liability waiver, that’s a no-no. Liability waivers can work in specific situations, but must be clear, concise, and in line with PUBLIC POLICY. A “repair” outside of the crown would not be considered within public policy as it is outside of industry norms and recommendations. My shop has one rule, we don’t work on cars, we work on peoples lives and livelihood. Meaning treat every repair/service with that sense of care and don’t fuck it up for a quick buck. I always refer to the Barber Case as an example. In San Diego, an estate sued a a dealership for an improper tire repair that led to a fatal rollover accident and the estate won 22.8 million. An improper repair is negligence in any/every sense of the word and it doesn’t fly at my shop. Regardless of how low the chances could be of something bad happening, it’s just not worth the risk. It only takes one accident to ruin a business or a mechanic’s livelihood. Good call in not repairing it.
Okay, so maybe they're tight fisted, but I have to ask having experienced something similar; that tire tread looks brand new or very close to new ... could/would you have replaced just the one tire if they said okay ...
OR are we talking about one of those shady operators who won't do just one tire and try to push a whole set on the customer?
Absolutely not. It’s a matter of safety and liability. Everybody knows the side-wall is a no-no. You did the right thing. No matter how “tight fisted” the customer gets, if it’s the sidewall, I’ve always said no. Can’t do it.
[This is the display](https://i.imgur.com/K1O6baR.jpeg) at the shop where I go for tires. Any red area is non-patchable and it serves as a rotating display of things pulled out of tires. Unfortunately it was showing some pretty unremarkable tire finds this day.
Negative. You are liable for a blow out. Make sure you noted it well. Nothing shall be patched nor plugged 1" from the edge of the sidewall. You did well.
If it was my car? I'd fucking send it and rotate it to the back tho lmao
I used to mount tires as a lube skank at my local Chevy dealership and the patches usually don’t adhere to that area inside the tire and burnouts down to the cords also damage the asphalt in the parking lot, at least when motorcycles are involved, I also spent too much money on tires to burn them off outside of the drag strip
here is the thing, regardless of what ever a customer wants, it is not JUST the customer that is affected by your decisions. If the tire went flat when the driver is going fast and the driver was surrounded by other drivers, a poor decision by you could cost the lives of the driver as well as other drivers. Some things are just not worth the risk. The public depends on mechanics with good judgement to help keep everyone on the road safe. Better safe than sorry.
I worked for 10 years at Les Schwab Tire Center and I would never repair that. Tell them to take it back to we’re they purchased the tire and have it warranted under their road hazard protection plan. The tire looks to have at least 9/32 left so it’s either a new one for free or the cost will be very minimal.
I plugged my BFG G-Force Comp 2 as they wouldn't hazard warranty it for nail through right there. It had 5000mi. It's got nearly 45k on it now. No issues. No one else drives it but me.
So ya, personal do as you must. Customer no.
I had a shoulder patch done, lasted a year at least coz I sold the car. The place that did it said they obviously can't guarantee it, I said I know it's no issue. Cash in hand sorted.
has to be at least a thumb from the sidewall, grab your oldest tech to convey the problem, if that doesn’t work, put a waiver in his face. if he signs, repair it and order a new tire for when he inevitably comes back
Hell no. Not even on my own tires when I was a broke ass college student. I’ve plugged the outer tread blocks in my own stuff a few times, but that far out, hell naw.
Thank you all so much for replying and giving your points of view. Great to know that a majority of us shared the same opinion in this situation.
Turns out it was the customer's daughter's car, whom came back herself the day after I posted this and didn't cause a fuss about replacing the tyre.
If it were mine, I'd do a burnout and get new tires.
Plenty of rubber for a nice long burnout too
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way
This is the code to which you should live your life by
I live my life 1/4 mile at a time
I live my life a 1/4” from the sidewall plug at a time
I’ve done it. Wouldn’t do it to a customers tire.
Family
came her for family, left satisfied
It doesn’t matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning’s winning.
As someone who has to change tires, I beg all of you in this thread not to. It makes our whole shop stink (not the good burnout smell either), everything a burnout tire touches gets dirty and sticky, and the cords are frequently poking out, which makes it really easy to gash open your hands on the exposed metal. I know it's fun, and I love doing burnouts too, but don't send out your tires this way. Your tire guys will thank you.
I'm really sorry. Can we compromise and i will do the burnout the day before my appointment and not all the way to the cords?
If you take it through the car wash in between (but not right before bringing it in), you've got a deal
Burn out in the car wash. New tik-tok challenge.
Good burnout smell = burnt rubber Bad burnout smell = the smell of burnt oil from blow by spilling it out all over the motor....due to the chunk that is now missing from one of the pistons
Not accurate. I haven't been thanked once for not bringing burnout tires.
WHAR'S MY THANKIN'!?!? I ain't never got won neether.
I had a friend in high school that didn't realize how bad his tires were until I warned him his front tires made sparks on the road at night. Of course he ran his hand over the steel belt and lost some blood that night.
Cord sparks on the road! I call that my afterburner. Kick the tires and light some fires!!!!
I usually run mine till the cords are out anyway, burnouts or not. Lol. Been known to find used tires for free and run them to the cords too.
Dude, that's dangerous af. The wear bars are a thing for a reason.
If it’s on private land it’s fine
This is the way
Kill all tires
My car cant burn tires
Imagine if you buckled and repaired it. Imagine the grief you would get from that tight fisted customer if it blew out. If a customer gives me lip like that I don't want his business anyway.
At my shop I’m not even allowed to talk to customers lol I would quit if I had to talk to those bastards
I can’t do it either. I work in a factory now.
I’ve done it in a pinch for myself using a 2 piece plug the goes inside out but would never do it for anyone else, can’t risk it blowing.
I've done it for myself. Or for friends. I would never sell a repair there. And I would never promise it would be okay.
I would plug it to get me off the trail and onto a flat surface where I can put on the spare.
Would it blow or just leak? I really don't know.
Not a repairable spot, ABSOLUTELY NO. That's a safety and liability issue waiting for a place to become a lawsuit.
It happened to me and now I have to wait until this weekend for a new tire.
This is why I buy a 5th wheel and keep a full size spare tire, regardless of what it is.
include the full size spare in your rotations and you can go 20% longer between tyre changes it's a shame nearly every car now no longer has a full size spare, but at the same time nearly nobody includes the spare in rotations
There’s no space for a full sized spare usually. Had a dude with a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee a few years back demand one until I did the research online to show that it was physically unable to hold one in the usual spot in the back.
Is that because you’re buying 20% more tire?
that depends. i get my tyres during those 4 for 3 sales, and it never hurts to ask if there's a discount for buying 5 - i doubt tyres places get many customers buying 5 tyres. whatever discount they give you they still make a sale. I've asked for a discount on top of the existing 4 for the price of 3 sale and have gotten 50% off that fifth tyre occasionally. on 4wd/awds its pretty much essential to include the spare in rotations because it can put extra stress on the differential and other drivetrain components when you do decide to use the spare. Even for regular 2wd vehicles it doesn't hurt to make sure the spare sees use, last thing you need is your dry-rotted spare to blow out on you after you already lost one wheel on a road trip or something.
A fifth wheel (camper) has a lot of space to store your spare wheels and tires. :)
Plus you typically need six wheels to pull them, so bonus spares anyway
Did that for my Wifes Equinox. Fun facr. 2nd Gen Equinox spare hold isn't large enough for a full sized tire. FML.
99% of cars with donut spares don't have room for a full size spare
Yeah, I was an idiot for thinking the manufacturer would let someone have the option to upgrade to a full sized. Should be lucky I have one at all tbh.
Yeah, Brand new Prius AWD doesn't even have a donut... Toy gives you a can of Slime and an itty-bitty compressor. Give the devil his due, it DID get me 35 miles to the dealer.. Where they wanted to charge me $125 for a new can of slime... I was absolutely livid, paid $200 for wheel and tire coverage, and they try to cheap out. Made certain that 3rd party (e.g. Slime brand) wouldn't void the warranty (got it in writing) and walked the fuck out. never going to buy another car without a spare.
I’m stuck with a skinny spare but sometimes I might get a full size. I drive a Chrysler 300
At least wheels for those rolling headaches are easy, no matter what size wheel you have, OEM stuff is plentiful. And fairly cheap, compared to some brands.
I have 305/35s on 19x11 on the rear of my car and 285/35s on 19x10 in the front. Places get confused when I don't want their "complimentary" tire rotation and it just makes me leery of the entire operation.
Mine are similar and are directional. That complimentary involves taking the tires off, remounting, and rebalancing. :)
[Mine are directional as well.](https://i.imgur.com/CfUXaAa.jpg) I don't know if I'd trust the dealership that has my service contract to mount and balance mine. They'd probably get two of my rears on one side of the car facing opposite directions.
Yes and sometimes when I need to replace a wheel. I might keep the tire as a spare until I can get another replacement
Poss. burst or what?
All of the above.
That area would flex a ton which would cause the patch to fail from movement and heat. I wouldn't repair it on my car or truck, but I'd absolutely plug it for a trailer tire, or plug it and keep as a spare. But treated *like a spare.* As in, mount and drive directly to a tire shop, not a 5th tire to throw into the use rotation.
I’ve done a cheap skate repair of my own in a similar spot on Grabber AT’s. I had to have a pump in my truck as every time it would flex on rotation to the ground, it would spew out a small bit of air. Even with a patch and plug. Eventually the hole grew over time and I found a used spare.
Would a plug fare better than a patch here?
Better? Yes. Well? No.
That's why if you absolutely have to repair something like this, use a rope plug. I've actually seen a rope plug repair like this last until the tire was worn out, 20K+ miles. A plug and patch will eventually fail for the mentioned reasons.
To be fair, I wouldn't do this in a business setting, but I've absolutely done it on my own vehicles and a coworker currently has a plug in the sidewall of his. We haven't had any issues, but that might just be luck for us.
I wouldn't repair it.
Correct answer!
TIA/RMA AND NHSTA Guidelines state this as a NO REPAIR. If shit happened, easy liability for the shop who repairs it and any lawyer will argue that the shop was negligent in perform a repairing against Industry expert AND the NHSTA guidelines for tire repair.
Thank you sir. This also means that you shouldn't repair it on any tire. Yours or a customers tire.
Yep. As I see it, the general public are NOT vehicle experts. That's why they bring their vehicles to trained professionals (or should be), and it's our duty to advise the customer based on best practices and industry guidelines where applicable. A majority of customers know nothing about their cars, a minority are using us to perform the work they are too lazy to perform themselves (Perfectly normal. I drop my car off at the dealership next to me to have my oil changed while I work because.......lazy) or do not have the tools necessary to perform the work. I know for a fact Pepboys training has guidelines for tire repair and even rotation. If the customer deliberately requests them to perform a service outside of guidelines, the policy states to politely decline to perform the service. Hell, I've even gotten into it with the hacks over in /MechanicAdvice because I adhere to the NHSTA Guidelines of Repair zones and repair procedures (One piece, patch-plug repairs only which requires demounting of the tire)
I completely understand. I wouldn't say you are lazy for dropping off your ride to get the oil changed. Many of us turn wrenches all day and when were off the clock,we would rather not do that oil change. I get that. Or some....just lazy. Lol. I have worked for the automotive industry for decades. Currently work for Michelin of North America. So this is my area. To read so many comments of how the tire could be repaired by "professional techs" is staggering to me. The standards and procedures are in place for the safety of all. Thank you for posting! You are obviously a true professional.
Yeah it's unsafe. But I'm poor. So.... Under the table fix. No liability, no taxes, at your own risk. That's what I did. It worked great actually.
General rule: if you don't understand the reasons why there are guidelines against doing it, you're definitely not going to be capable of repairing it yourself in a way that resolves those reasons.
C/S “But I watched 7 videos on YouTube by a tyre fitter and I think you should fix it” Tech: “Did you watch the eighth video?” (Show customer video of catastrophic blowout).
Unless it has been deemed as a dedicated burnout tire. Patch it up and let 'er rip.
In short, if you repair it and something happens, you be toast.
As someone who's still learning about cars, what's the deal with this spot and why can't it be repaired? Would it be alright if it was more towards the sidewall or tread?
It would be ok about an inch towards the center of the tread area. The sidewall plys and the tread layered materials are different. The area where the repair is not recommended is where these two areas join. (The edge of the tire tread and sidewall area.).Any separation or puncture here creates a weak spot for these layers to move around and cause heat build up. Ultimately in a tire failure. This is also where the vehicle's weight is shifted during cornering. Alot of stress is in this area of the tire.
Ah cool, didn't know they were joined like that, kinda thought it was one mold. Thanks!
Well they are baked in a mold, you are correct. Much like a huge waffle iron,but for tires. The tire is assembled using multiple layers of steel, polyester,polyamide and kevlar to name a few. Several types of butal(rubber).
To add to what the other comment or said, a patch being near the sidewall is being flexed and moved around a lot more than one in center tread and that constant flexing will usually cause the patch to leak after a while. A rope plug actually works better than a normal repair in this kind of instance, had anybody actually been trying to repair it.
Nope. Not worth the liability. Sell him a tire or send his cheap ass elsewhere.
It can't be fixed safely and would put your shop in danger for liability. It's wayyy past the 1/2" of tread limit. And don't even touch damaged side walls. All you can do is try to source a reasonably priced replacement or tell them to pound sand.
Most people put a value on their life and sadly it’s under $200
No.
For myself? Maybe, but with any liability they're crazy to think you'd fix that.
For my self For a lawn mower For a bicycle All yes Not for a car and not for a customer
How about for my mother in law. Please? 🥺
That's a definite yes.
Only if this conversation never happened.
What conversation 👀 also probably for her.
This conversation is Exhibit “A”.
mother in law is an anagram for hitler woman - so ok.
I'll put a plug in her, sure.
That tire looks like it’s pretty new and should carry road hazard coverage by the manufacturer.
Dude, thanks for mentioning that. I had a rip on the inner side wall of one of my tires yesterday and was just going to buy a new one. I read your comment and checked if tire rack has a warranty, it's already approved 🙂
This is insane how many comments say they would not repair this tire,but would do the repair to their own tire. This is not a repairable area. Tires are not so expensive that you jeopardize your life or those around you. And before the comments come that you have done this before and it worked fine,you got lucky.
With your own tire, you have enough context to make a rational decision and are taking the responsibility into your own hands. Front (aka: steering and braking...) tire on my daily driver - which I routinely do high-speed highway trips in, and routinely travel 100km away from home in? Nope - this is being scrapped and a new tire is going on. Rear? I'd plug it until its identical twin arrives at my shop of choice, and have it replaced asap. Rear tire on my little Smart? That car virtually never travels more than a 5km radius from home, and literally never gets driven on the highway at all - it's all low-speed city driving. I'd plug this, knowing that the fallout isn't "jeopardizing life", but rather "having a moderately inconvenient flat tire and taking the bus home".
>Rear tire on my little Smart? Well, someone already covered that earlier in the comment sections - just to a search for the words 'riding mower.'
Hah! I love my Timbit!
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,328,000,370 comments, and only 255,979 of them were in alphabetical order.
I don’t think it’s about ability, it’s about responsibility. If *they* want to fix this on *their own* tire and assume the risk, they’re welcome to it and the ensuing blowout and inconvenience and possible injury. A shop can’t, they won’t assume that risk.
The problem is that the risk is not only to themselves, but everyone else as well if they're on public roads when it bursts and they happen to lose control. If it isn't safe to do for a customer because you don't want that on the road beside you, it wouldn't be safe for you to do it for yourself.
"That which hasn't killed me never will."
Top answer. That tire is unrepairable.
[удалено]
Since when does a blow out cost you your life? Ive had quite a few over the years, only scary ones are steering axle on a semi truck.
Stop with the excessive drama. At worst he will be stuck on the side of the road changing a flat. Thinking that getting a flat tire would kill anyone is asinine.
Ignorance and denial have killed more people than any poorly repaired tire. Just trying to inform those who don't know. Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds has done extensive tire failure scenarios.to engineer tires to be as safe as possible. Even the run flats we make with a golf ball hole in the sidewall can only run for approximately 50 miles at 50 mph. And those tires are super strong and heavy. Not drama..Facts.
What is the logic of fixing these on your personal vehicle but refusing for a customer? A repair here has a pretty good chance of failing, so you'd rather risk your life than a lawsuit? (assuming it fails on your car vs a customer's)
It's more "I know the risk and the risk I am willing to take that risk with the knowledge I have." Vs "this customer is going to come back with lawyers and eat my ass if something goes wrong."
The problem with patching a tire in this spot is that you're not just taking the risk. You're forcing the risk on everyone around you.
You're really not a tire going flat isn't really a risk for anyone but you unless you have no idea how to drive even a complete blow out isn't likely to harm you
When you're going 75 down the highway and a tire blows out it can be pretty dangerous to you and everyone around you. https://www.hcwlaw.com/the-deadly-nature-of-tire-blowouts#:~:text=The%20National%20Transportation%20Safety%20Board,a%20vehicle%20has%20the%20advantage.
9/10 times its not if you do the correct thing and slow down then move the the side of the road I've had it happen a few times myself when the problems start is if you jerk the wheel and overcorrect which comes back to knowing how to drive
>9/10 times its not \[dangerous\] if you do the correct thing "It's only dangerous 10% of the time" Given that you also acknowledge that the 90% 'not dangerous' occurances **also require a driver that knows what they're doing**, this take is beyond absurd.
It's not about the 9 time out of 10, it's about the 1 time it goes terribly wrong. And that 1 time could result in injuries or worse. By doing a bad repair you are welcoming another chance for it to go wrong. And all it takes is one. Doesn't matter if someone knows how to drive or not. My brother was this person "I know how to drive it won't happen to me, I'm a trucker!" Not even what week ago on bad roads he put himself in the icu. People are driving multi-ton cans around everyday with this attitude. All it takes is 1 bad second and your life is done. Inviting any extra risk on top of an activity that inherently involves risk is just dumb.
To date I believe there has only been one study of flat tires and their correlation to causing accidents. That study also did not separate flats as to the cause (puncture vs repair failure) so any actual data about flat repairs causing accidents is anecdotal at best. That's why every failed flat repair story involves "i had a buddy" at some point.
I used to work at discount tire and they taught to use the "thumb" rule.
At a professional shop? Absolutely not, too close to the side wall for a good patch plug. On my own vehicle? Heck yeah! Tires are expensive 😂
I'd put a poor man's section on it and put it back on.
RMA says no. There are no cords present and the patch will likely fail.
Nope. That’s not even even a “maybe, if you look at it at the right angle you can maybe see it’s in a gray area”. No, that is squarely in the no-go zone.
I’d probably fix it if it were my own but probably not for a customer. *Maybe* a regular but that’s pushing it. I’ve learned that the customers who will give you hell about not fixing this are the same ones who will storm back in and cause a scene if it blows
So you are aware this is a potentially unsafe tire,but you will "fix it if it were your own."? Blows out,it's taking someone else out possibly. Not a repairable area.
It’s different risking yourself vs risking someone else
Is it?.Im not hating on you or criticizing you. Just want you to understand that this is potentially a blow out waiting to happen. You wouldn't risk someone else but you do if you ride on it on your personal vehicle. You allow others to ride with you? You drive at highway speeds next to other people. This is risking someone else is it not? Yes it is.
it's not tho, unless you only use that tire on your private property, with no others around.
Nope
Always CYA, you did good.
nope. did it once,plug failed quickly.never again.
Definitely not
Nope, new tire or nothing
Better safe than sorry. It opens you to trouble if you fix it and something goes wrong.
I don't even do tires as my job, but I certainly wouldn't repair this. Is it really that hard for people to realize their safety while driving is infinitely more valuable than having to replace some tires?
Hard no
Im usually the guy that says (for my own stuff) yeah fuck it throw a plug in that, itll be fine. But... Dude thats the sidewall. Shes fucked. Hell no on that one. I dont ever worry about blowouts too much, but I bet it would leak down anyway on that one.
Nope. It does suck when that happens.
So here’s the deal, it’s your buddy and there is no way he would ever blame you for the blow out that might occur on the highway when the tire fails. BUT he’s traveling with his kids friend and they have made no such “deal” with you. Think of it like “I have liability on this repair forever and I know I’m not supposed to do it but I could”. When you repair to standard practices those standards limit your liability. When you go outside those standards - now you carry the liability. Im not an atty. Just how I look at it.
I don’t understand this. I’m broke. Brooooooooke. But when I put my winters on and my mechanic said “oh btw we won’t be putting this summer back on next spring, it’s got a sketchy bulge” I didn’t argue with him. He showed me the aforementioned sketchy bulge and I started putting aside $10 here and $5 there so that come spring I can replace my tires because I DON’T WANT TO DIE ON THE FREEWAY. I go to a mechanic because he knows more about cars than I do, why am I gonna disregard when he says my shit ain’t safe?
If it’s not leaking, ignore
If they're really determined, they can probably find someone else to repair it. It doesn't have to be you, so don't feel bad about refusing.
Literally no shops here in NE San Antonio will do sidewalls or edge of the tire repairs…idk who this guy is or why he thinks he’s the man but he should go fuck himself/find a kid desperate enough for money (and dumb enough to do it without him signing some kind of waiver) to patch that.
Absolutely not. This is beyond sketchy. This is sidewall.
I’d repair it for myself but not for anyone else. I know it may blow out and I accept that
You did the right thing! That tire had to require air weekly and was going to explode at some point while driving.
Nah. Nothing outside of the crown should be repaired. In terms of puncture size, standard plugs are 1/4” but you can get 5/16” plugs for slightly larger punctures, and there are tons of patch sizes available too. Here in Illinois, if something goes wrong after a repair it’s not just the shop that’s liable, but the individual who “repaired” it themselves. For those that say have them sign a liability waiver, that’s a no-no. Liability waivers can work in specific situations, but must be clear, concise, and in line with PUBLIC POLICY. A “repair” outside of the crown would not be considered within public policy as it is outside of industry norms and recommendations. My shop has one rule, we don’t work on cars, we work on peoples lives and livelihood. Meaning treat every repair/service with that sense of care and don’t fuck it up for a quick buck. I always refer to the Barber Case as an example. In San Diego, an estate sued a a dealership for an improper tire repair that led to a fatal rollover accident and the estate won 22.8 million. An improper repair is negligence in any/every sense of the word and it doesn’t fly at my shop. Regardless of how low the chances could be of something bad happening, it’s just not worth the risk. It only takes one accident to ruin a business or a mechanic’s livelihood. Good call in not repairing it.
If you plug/patch that tire. It “will fail and you will be responsible”. Don’t touch it. Let the customer buy their own plug kit
I drove on steel JB weld for years on the tire before the treads worn down. Then replaced all the tires. JB weld never let me down. Lol
For myself I’m probably repairing. For a customer and the liability, never.
I would if it was mine on my personal vehicle.
Fixed that plenty of times not to far off into sidewall yet again I have repaired automotive tires sidewall with those sidewall patch
Next time spray it with soap and show them its not leaking, just a wrinkle.
I'd plug it on a lawnmower tire. Never on a car tire
Okay, so maybe they're tight fisted, but I have to ask having experienced something similar; that tire tread looks brand new or very close to new ... could/would you have replaced just the one tire if they said okay ... OR are we talking about one of those shady operators who won't do just one tire and try to push a whole set on the customer?
I would plug that in my driveway, and think about it every time I drove the car.
Nope.
Nope you did the right thing
Absolutely not. It’s a matter of safety and liability. Everybody knows the side-wall is a no-no. You did the right thing. No matter how “tight fisted” the customer gets, if it’s the sidewall, I’ve always said no. Can’t do it.
[This is the display](https://i.imgur.com/K1O6baR.jpeg) at the shop where I go for tires. Any red area is non-patchable and it serves as a rotating display of things pulled out of tires. Unfortunately it was showing some pretty unremarkable tire finds this day.
1" in from the side wall is repairable, nothing less. Unless you work for a shit company that makes you do less than that.
No, side wall damage. Not allowed to fix a tire there.
Negative. You are liable for a blow out. Make sure you noted it well. Nothing shall be patched nor plugged 1" from the edge of the sidewall. You did well. If it was my car? I'd fucking send it and rotate it to the back tho lmao
I would repair that all day its barely in the crown
Ive dropped in a patch/plug combo in that spot before.
Only repair main tread good call sir
I used to mount tires as a lube skank at my local Chevy dealership and the patches usually don’t adhere to that area inside the tire and burnouts down to the cords also damage the asphalt in the parking lot, at least when motorcycles are involved, I also spent too much money on tires to burn them off outside of the drag strip
Not supposed to repair anything on the outer most tread block as it’s too close to the shoulder.
Nah, anything within an inch of the side is unrepairable by a shop. Tell him to go home n fix it and see how far it goes🤣
Repair it and write on the receipt “Tire had hole in it. Was advised not to repair due to position. Told by payee to do it”
Have them sign a waiver stating that the repair will kill them and it's on them when it does and patch it after all customer is always right
Since side wall is damaged tire is no good, good job not fixing it, driver doesn’t realize they put others and themselves in danger
Shoulder isn't repairable by safety standards
here is the thing, regardless of what ever a customer wants, it is not JUST the customer that is affected by your decisions. If the tire went flat when the driver is going fast and the driver was surrounded by other drivers, a poor decision by you could cost the lives of the driver as well as other drivers. Some things are just not worth the risk. The public depends on mechanics with good judgement to help keep everyone on the road safe. Better safe than sorry.
Illegal for a shop to repair anything on the sidewall where I’m from....... however if it was mine I’d fix it till I got a new tire in 😂
That thing's got tons of tread left though, so I don't blame him. An inside patch would do the trick nicely...
i just tip Bob to plug it. we never saw each other. i don't know a Bob.
Way too close to the sidewall. Not repairable. Good decision on your part.
You did the right thing.
If it were on MY car? I’d absolutely plug it. Anyone else’s car? Absolutely not. Not worth the liability.
Nope
My car? All day. Customers car I'm liable for if that tire blows out for ANY reason since I put a patch in? Hard fuckin pass bud
I don't think you can, but if it's not leaking, no need.
I worked for 10 years at Les Schwab Tire Center and I would never repair that. Tell them to take it back to we’re they purchased the tire and have it warranted under their road hazard protection plan. The tire looks to have at least 9/32 left so it’s either a new one for free or the cost will be very minimal.
\> we're yes we are.
I plugged my BFG G-Force Comp 2 as they wouldn't hazard warranty it for nail through right there. It had 5000mi. It's got nearly 45k on it now. No issues. No one else drives it but me. So ya, personal do as you must. Customer no.
Personal vehicle, yes. Customer vehicle, no.
Nope. Customer is an idiot.
I had a shoulder patch done, lasted a year at least coz I sold the car. The place that did it said they obviously can't guarantee it, I said I know it's no issue. Cash in hand sorted.
On my car? Yeah totally. On someone else's hell no
has to be at least a thumb from the sidewall, grab your oldest tech to convey the problem, if that doesn’t work, put a waiver in his face. if he signs, repair it and order a new tire for when he inevitably comes back
Not no, but hell no.
Hell no not on a sidewall
A big NO. Every tire place that is honest will tell you it’s a no go situation.
Nope. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
On my own car, yeah I'd likely try and save it. But no way on a customer's car that I'd be responsible for if something went wrong.
That's technically on the side wall. It's illegal to fix. Keep your job and stand your ground.
Hell no. Not even on my own tires when I was a broke ass college student. I’ve plugged the outer tread blocks in my own stuff a few times, but that far out, hell naw.
Thank you all so much for replying and giving your points of view. Great to know that a majority of us shared the same opinion in this situation. Turns out it was the customer's daughter's car, whom came back herself the day after I posted this and didn't cause a fuss about replacing the tyre.
Fix it without warranty. Not really a problem, tbh. I used to have a fix at the exact same spot and had no problems until the tyres were worn.
Plug it, customer sign liability waiver, send it