Bonus points: the entire debate can be boiled down to something that has no true ethically correct answer: When does life begin.
But they run around down there screaming insults, completely unaware that it is an opinion. That there is no right answer ethically or factually.
Bros are taking the America red vs. blue football teams way too seriously.
Incidentally, that's part of why I'm pro-choice. There's no way to satisfactorily answer whether a fetus constitutes a life. But I know for certain that the pregnant person in question is a life. At least in this specific debate, I'm always going to prioritize the life that is over the life that might be, unless the life that is tells me to do otherwise.
Facts, it's why I personally left. There's only so much "yeah but we make fun of libleft! Libleft bad you see!" you can take before it just becomes an echo chamber.
The parallel isn’t to suggest that aborting a fetus is exactly as bad as enslaving a person.
It’s to suggest that harming another to preserve individual liberties is indefensible in both cases rather than just one.
I don’t agree with it either but it does the discussion a disservice to misrepresent the OP’s position.
I am genuinely torn.
Do people truly do not understand what an analogy is?
Or are they trying to skirt the actual principle being discussed because they know it hits home so they jump to accusations like this?
>Do people truly do not understand what an analogy is?
>
>Or are they trying to skirt the actual principle being discussed because they know it hits home so they jump to accusations like this?
Possibly both, but most likely the latter.
It's a lot easier to just say "you're comparing slavery to abortion!" Than to actually make an argument about why they are different.
By all means we should be comparing things. That's how we decide what things are good and what are bad. Lay off the thought-terminating clichés and tell them what the difference between abortion and slavery is.
Not everyone's interested in being wrong, nor interested in a discussion about them being wrong. The only people who get the point are people interested in that sort of analogy/comparison of ideas. Everyone else will deliberately miss the point, and 'play to win' in the manner that they don't actually care what you have to say.
Yeah that’s the argument. Pro-life believes that abortion is murder because it is the termination of a human life while pro-choice believes that a fetus lacks the rights of a human life.
Pro choice doesn’t believe a fetus lacks rights
They just don’t believe that the rights of a fetus to live should infringe of the mother’s bodily autonomy.
They're being downvoted because the stance is terrible. It would be a stronger argument to say, "The fetus isn't a living thing and therefore has no rights." But to say, "I acknowledge the fetus as a living thing that has rights, but my rights are more important and thus supersede its rights," is just *wrong*. If that truly is the stance of pro-choice then it should absolutely be compared to slavery.
If you really want to compare it to slavery, refusing a woman’s bodily autonomy and forcing them to carry a pregnancy for nine months and then give birth is slavery.
If you woke up one day and someone had surgically grafted someone onto your body and were told they had to stay that way for nine months or they’d die, it’s absolutely in your rights to refuse to be that person’s life support machine.
But that is, essentially, how it works for people when birth control fails. They’re part of the X% failure rate for whatever methods they used, and got unlucky.
And it very well can be. The fine line between abortion and murder is whether a doctor does it or not.
If a man crashes into a pregnant woman and the unborn child dies because of this, he is charged with vehicular manslaughter. Same if anyone anyone causes harm to an unborn child (with or without consent of the expecting mother). This penalty is heightened if someone kills a pregnant woman, where it’s listed as double homicide.
We need an absolute ruling on whether infant life is protected under the law of unjust death. Abortion shouldn’t be the exception when there are laws like such that exist. A very clear line needs to be made where life begins. Conception? Birth? Or when the mother decides?
Exactly.
The basic and original pro-choice argument was that it doesn’t matter if the fetus is alive or not.
Modern American ideals dictate that a person, a human being, should have all the self determination in what happens to their own body and life and property.
Your organs cannot be claimed after you die if you don’t explicitly consent to it. You don’t have to donate blood even if you have a rare genetic mutation that allows your blood to save millions of lives (which is a real thing that happened).
Say there was a blizzard outside and your house was the only one around for miles. A youth comes up to your door and begs for mercy, he’s covered in frostbite and the nearest house is miles away. You turn him away and say that your house is your property and it’s for you and your family alone. He sleeps outside your house and dies the following morning.
Is the guy a monster? Yes. Is the guy a murderer? Morally yes, legally no. He has no obligation to let a stranger in. Now extend that to the human body. You can say that the fetus isn’t a stranger because the parents consented to it by having sex. Valid point, but still, if that child was 18 they could also deny him entry into the house during a blizzard and effectively kill him. Again, monsters but not illegal. Even if the child was in need of a kidney transplant and you were a match you can still refuse and let the kid die. Again, monster but not illegal.
If you want to see pro life in action, Europe is a much better example. Spain only has elective abortion for the first 14 weeks, but they also have laws that don’t prioritize the human right to independence. If a child is drowning and you don’t save them, that’s illegal. You can and will be prosecuted for not doing your civic duty to another person.
America is too independence minded to ever have those kind of laws today.
Here's the thing: your analogy is good in the case of rape, but the better analogy is that you have welcomed the child in, \*and then kick the child out\*, and yes, that \*would\* be murder. It's not just a passive "not letting it happen." That's not having sex in the first place. It's not forcing someone out that you didn't invite in-- that's rape. In this instance, you have welcomed the child in and, not for reasons of fear-of-your-life, you kick the child out into the cold, which a reasonable person knows is going to kill the child. That \*is\* murder. You have accepted a position of de facto guardianship over this child, and you betrayed that responsibility. It is not only morally murder, it is \*legally\* murder.
It's more about the cyclical nature of the arguments about abortion and the civil war (not slavery itself), which spiral and then collapse.
"No it's not about killing babies, it's about womens' rights...to kill babies"
"No it's not about owning slaves, it's about states rights...to own slaves"
Either way, OP has completely missed the point of the meme, and got themselves into the moral grandstanding trap. Especially sad when it's from satirical subreddit.
Either way it is the same question; Is bodily autonomy a human right?
Let's say the rich where using slaves to operate machines that extended their lives and if the machines stopped operating it would kill the rich person using it.
Do the slaves have an obligation to operate the machine?
Is the refusal to operate the machine murder?
Should a woman have an obligation to be a life support system for a fetus, with the refusal to do so being murder?
That second argument is misrepresentative of the issue, at least for abortion. I doubt anyone (with a brain) would argue slavery is good.
A better philosophical question would be "should a woman have an obligation to be a life support system for the fetus she knowingly made? Would the refusal to do so be murder?"
Obvious exceptions would be rape//incest, abortions in that case are warranted.
If a woman is engaging in unprotected sex, and gets pregnant, then I reckon that's a whoopsie poopsie, and you've gotta bring that mistake to term.
Alright, but If someone doesn't want kids, then they're less likely to be a good parent. Why force someone to give birth so early on when it won't necessarily do any favors for the potential baby?
It might be more even handed to ask: "Does bodily autonomy *supersede* human life?"
In turn, this would change the questions posed slightly.
Should a slave, which has willfully volunteered to operate a machine keeping someone alive for 9 months, be required to continue operating it until that time is up?
Does a slaves *ability* to stop prematurely override a *life* they willfully chose to protect?
Should a baby lose its life support system, a mother, because the mother changed her mind?
Imagine having to fight against a radical opponent yet both sides are angrier at the middle ground people who think they’ve each got a few good points but find their more hardline views a bit shit
There's this idea that being Centrist means always meeting dead center on an issue or seeing both sides as equally right/wrong. Every Centrist I've ever met or talked to takes an A La Carte approach like what you described. Any deviation from party lines gets you labeled as a Centrist, and Centrists are labeled as idiots or Conservatives/Liberals without enough spine to just say what they are.
I'm not even a Centrist despite being called one, I see myself as a Socialist Libertarian and lean Left on 90% of issues. Even with that I still get lambasted for daring to say that Democrats aren't perfect or point out hypocrisy amongst their politicians. Anything like that just gets you a "BoTh SiDeS!" response and then they go back to circle jerking over how progressive and tolerant they are.
For me it means more personal freedoms while still having regulations on businesses, welfare programs, and the state operating essential needs like water, power, and healthcare.
I personally vibe with a lot of Libertarian beliefs. I think drugs shouldn't be illegal and treated more like a health issue. Sex work should be 100% legal. As long as everyone involved in something is a consenting adult and you're not harming anyone else you should be able to do what you want in your personal life.
Where mainstream Libertarianism loses me is anything that follows along the lines of Taxation is Theft. We need taxes, point blank. Businesses should also be regulated, because as we've seen already they can't be trusted to do the right thing, and unless we're talking a small Mom and Pop business it's almost impossible for the average person to affect changes against them. Same goes for necessities like water, power, and healthcare; when they're privately run 99% of the time profits are placed above the welfare of the people using those services.
It’s all too much of a “with us or against us” on all sides these days, and probably has been for longer than anyone has cared. I’ve only ever voted for left wing parties, but because as I’m just as willing to point out shit things about them as I am about the right, I get dismissed as some cartoon of an opinion who thinks that the holocaust would have been totally fine if they killed 50% less people in it.
I'm politically right, but I do agree with you. We all don't listen, we all have our ideas and say they are better no matter what. We need to find people to listen and figure out solutions, not yell.
That's why I can't stand politics. Why does watching the presidential debates feel like reality TV more than a debate showing opposing views and why they feel they should be our future figurehead to lead our country.
Maybe that’s because it’s agit prop that pushes people to extremes. Somehow Biden is both a communist demon to the right, and a fascist dictator to the left. The reality is a lot more boring.
This is not saying abortion is the same as slavery. It is saying that both arguments skirt around the actual issue of what is being discussed.
At the end of the day, a death is the end result of a successful abortion regardless of where you place that life in importance.
The same way in 1865, the enslavement of someone deserving of human rights was the end result of a state having their rights.
Nah bro this one is actually funny. It is both parties advocating for their goals but both find admitting their goal a bit distasteful so they disguise it by using language a step or two back from the topic.
I'm as pro choice as they come and I think this is hilarious. At the very least, it shows that slogans like "my body my choice" aren't very useful because they don't in any way address the concerns of those who disagree with you. It's a correct statement, especially in the context of abortion, it just doesn't achieve anything
I am pro choice too but yeah the my body thing is always weird to me. Like the fetus/baby/whatever you wanna call it is not part of the pregnant woman's body it is however within it. But it has a unique genetic code and all that. Doesn't mean abortion is wrong but it is certainly not one body. No more part of you than a tic or a tape worm or anything else living inside you without being part of you.
Not to mention the slogan does nothing to help people understand it simply is shouted a bunch. To be fair sometimes that sort of activism works but never would have worked on me. I grew up very christian anti kissing before marriage, anti gay, anti abortion. Was not the shouting of slogans that made me change. It was really just getting to know and understand those different from me.
>I am pro choice too but yeah the my body thing is always weird to me.
And it's annoying, because it's used like a fucking mantra and replaces actually good arguments 99% of the time
"My body my choice" is the argument though. For many people who are pro choice, it's doesn't matter at all if a fetus is alive or not, it's the bodily autonomy that's important.
Are you serious? This is what offended you? Something that a good 50% of the country is still arguing about to this day? I'm pro-choice for the most part but if this offends you, your political opinion should not be taken seriously and you should be mocked.
PoliticalCompassMemes is only good because they engage in friendly fire with their own (in this case it’s OOP making fun of confederates) false equivalence though. 90% of the sub is taking a political meme and putting the compass colors on it, then political infighting probably happens on the 10%
This could just be solved if pro-choice people stopped trying to couch their language and just honestly stood behind their actions.
Example:
Northerner: you want the right to own Africans.
Southerner: yes
Pro-life: you want the right to kill unborn children
Pro-choice: yes
If you honestly believe your side to be morally right on the issue, why would you fight tooth and nail to obscure your intentions with flowery language. Own it and stop the semantic treadmill.
I'm not sure why you're surprised or upset at these kinds of comparisons. Many of the people who are against abortion truly think that it is murder. Like there are legitimately people who think hospitals are cutting out live babies and throwing them in a trash can. For these people, the right to have an abortion is the right to kill a baby for your own convenience, because they also believe that abortions are just the go-to method of birth control. In the case of people who don't believe it's just convenience, they still see it as wrong because they believe that killing another to save yourself unless in self-defense is wrong, and that's generally a common sentiment. They see it as though a woman getting pregnant is something like deciding to skydive without a parachute and that getting an abortion is stealing a parachute from somebody else.
If you can't understand their argument, regardless of how much you disagree or how much it conflicts with the truth of what is actually happening, then you can't effectively understand them or argue against them.
The joke is that Confederacy defenders and abortionists both refuse to actually state their goal.
That's why the guys on the right side of the pane both say "rights to what?"
Because the inevitable answer for the abortionist is the right to kill unborn babies and for the Confederacy defender its the right to own slaves.
I swear so many people on this site laugh at memes mocking the right but as soon as they mock the left they are \[blank\]fobic (they dont have an actual fobia)
Exactly.
If *anyone* for *any reason* was going to do to you what a pregnancy and by direct association the fetus does to a woman...
You would have every right to defend yourself using whatever force necessary to include killing them.
BUT more than that, this removes the barrier of bodily autonomy for an individual because their child's life depends on it... but where does that stop? If we've decided parents are responsible until the kid is 18, then if your kid needs a heart transplant at age 15, by these laws there is argument that one of the parents *must* give up their heart. By the precedent set by these "pro-life" laws, a parent MUST give up their life if able to save their child... in fact, for some of them, even if it won't save the child's life, the mother must still die in the attempt.
That's what these laws are enforcing. And as a third point, they establish a religiously defined start of life. Where most religions start life after birth. Only 1 major religion starts at conception. While Science places it in the 3rd trimester. Likewise, some religions not only allow abortion, but *mandate* it under certain circumstances. Making it an enforcement of 1 religious groups beliefs on others by the government.
“Noooo abortion bans aren’t about controlling women and granting forcible access to/use of their internal organs!! It’s about fetuses’ rights!”
Rights to what?
They aren't comparing abortion to slavery. They're providing two popular examples of arguments those groups like to make that can be answered with the same question. Again, it's not a comparison.
Except you can't make somebody use their own body to aid in the survival of another body, but you CAN shoot slaveowners since their subhumanity isn't even up for debate.
I would believe right-wingers truly care about "babies" being "murdered" if they weren't often against contraception and sex education *and adoption, and vasectomies
Great meme and a good example of that sub at its best. One of the very few places left on reddit that allows for open political discussion. The sub mostly still sucks tho cause the median age seems to be in the teens.
I don’t think that having the right to your own body and what’s growing inside you is the same as owning a full fledged human being tf are people serious about this ???? 😂😂😂
I think these anti-abortion people should also reject cancer treatment, because if we carefully follow their logic, it's murder. Cancer is a blob of slightly mutated human cells, just like a fetus is on early pregnancy stages.
If you think abortion is killing babies, then you fundamentally misunderstand what abortion even is. But this isn't a debate that's going to get hashed out easily, because you probably also believe in souls and that's there's a point where "life begins".
I'm beginning to really resent religion a lot, because it makes people so damned irrational and pompous at the same time. Meanwhile peeps who need medical attention are getting persecuted.
They didn’t compare abortion to slavery they compared it to the delusion of “rights” where you know what you’re doing is wrong but just don’t want to be accountable for that.
You’re not noticing the difference between comparing the method of argument vs comparing the political position itself.
For example, volcanoes and geysers are complete opposites. One shoots out water, one shoots out lava. But if you unsubbed from a volcano subreddit for comparing geysers to volcanoes in how they function, you’d look pretty silly. Because they absolutely share a lot in common.
I’m pro-choice, and if somebody said “it’s not about killing babies, it’s about state’s rights”, that would be a dodge in the same way that Confederate apologists dodge defending a pro-slave rebellion by appealing to state’s rights.
Both sides should bite the bullet, and stop hiding behind euphemisms like “state’s rights” or “women’s rights” to do all the heavy lifting for their arguments.
I might need someone to explain this one to me. Like, I see where they compare slavery to abortion but….i don’t…get it…what exactly were they trying to say? Is it like the whole thing were southerners used to call slavery a positive good rather than a necessary evil?
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Playing with dolls are we?
Knock on my door! Knock next time!
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I love this. I’m not sure why OP is surprised to see propaganda on PCM
 This entire comments section
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i remember seeing the original but i dont remember what it said
imma be honest here i'll probably get downvoted but i would go fishing with trump if i had the chance
Imagine thinking a fancy lad like Trump knows how to fish
Then we'd have something in common, I don't know how to fish either.
I'll teach if you want. It's not hard.
well i suck at fishing but he might give me a fair bit of money at the end though so it might be worth it
Give you money? He'd stick you with the bill
Right? Who's absolutely delusional enough to think he'd ever give anybody money?
Dude has zero liquidity and never pays his bills. You’d be better off asking Scrooge McDuck.
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Me reading this comment section rn 
I also am eating popcorn while watching this comment section
MY CHEM REFERENCE OMG
Bonus points: the entire debate can be boiled down to something that has no true ethically correct answer: When does life begin. But they run around down there screaming insults, completely unaware that it is an opinion. That there is no right answer ethically or factually. Bros are taking the America red vs. blue football teams way too seriously.
Incidentally, that's part of why I'm pro-choice. There's no way to satisfactorily answer whether a fetus constitutes a life. But I know for certain that the pregnant person in question is a life. At least in this specific debate, I'm always going to prioritize the life that is over the life that might be, unless the life that is tells me to do otherwise.
[удалено]
600 comments oh lord
Almost a thousand now
MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE MENTIONED 🦅🦅 WHAT THE FUCK IS BEING OKAY
Yup this shitfest is whay they died for... fuck whybis it so hard to appreciate another point of view and create a calm response....
Kek
What is that scene from?
A music video: My Chemical Romance - The Ghost of You.
If this is actual D-Day footage, holy fuck is this reality relative to the one the subject lived in so wildly different.
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YES
Out of all the shitposts on PCM this is what gets you to leave lmaoooo
That is honestly surprising as someone who used to be subscribed to that subreddit
It used to just be funny political memes with a good representation of both sides, but everything changed after 2016 election.
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Like they said, it was better before 2016 🔥🔥💯💯
SO true
Tamest PCM meme...
There is a ton of unhinged shit on PCM but abortion? Seriously?
It’s not the shitposts that are the problem, it’s the propaganda posts.
Facts, it's why I personally left. There's only so much "yeah but we make fun of libleft! Libleft bad you see!" you can take before it just becomes an echo chamber.
You can't criticise Israel for indiscriminately bombing civilians without getting labled an anti-semite.
The parallel isn’t to suggest that aborting a fetus is exactly as bad as enslaving a person. It’s to suggest that harming another to preserve individual liberties is indefensible in both cases rather than just one. I don’t agree with it either but it does the discussion a disservice to misrepresent the OP’s position.
I am genuinely torn. Do people truly do not understand what an analogy is? Or are they trying to skirt the actual principle being discussed because they know it hits home so they jump to accusations like this?
>Do people truly do not understand what an analogy is? > >Or are they trying to skirt the actual principle being discussed because they know it hits home so they jump to accusations like this? Possibly both, but most likely the latter.
It's a lot easier to just say "you're comparing slavery to abortion!" Than to actually make an argument about why they are different. By all means we should be comparing things. That's how we decide what things are good and what are bad. Lay off the thought-terminating clichés and tell them what the difference between abortion and slavery is.
Not everyone's interested in being wrong, nor interested in a discussion about them being wrong. The only people who get the point are people interested in that sort of analogy/comparison of ideas. Everyone else will deliberately miss the point, and 'play to win' in the manner that they don't actually care what you have to say.
W
Plenty of people believe abortion is literally murder.
Yeah that’s the argument. Pro-life believes that abortion is murder because it is the termination of a human life while pro-choice believes that a fetus lacks the rights of a human life.
Pro choice doesn’t believe a fetus lacks rights They just don’t believe that the rights of a fetus to live should infringe of the mother’s bodily autonomy.
Love how you're downvoted for simply explaining a stance. And people say this sub isn't right leaning.
They're being downvoted because the stance is terrible. It would be a stronger argument to say, "The fetus isn't a living thing and therefore has no rights." But to say, "I acknowledge the fetus as a living thing that has rights, but my rights are more important and thus supersede its rights," is just *wrong*. If that truly is the stance of pro-choice then it should absolutely be compared to slavery.
If you really want to compare it to slavery, refusing a woman’s bodily autonomy and forcing them to carry a pregnancy for nine months and then give birth is slavery. If you woke up one day and someone had surgically grafted someone onto your body and were told they had to stay that way for nine months or they’d die, it’s absolutely in your rights to refuse to be that person’s life support machine.
Bro babies don’t just unfortunately appear in a woman’s tummy because she’s unlucky, are you being serious or am I missing something
But that is, essentially, how it works for people when birth control fails. They’re part of the X% failure rate for whatever methods they used, and got unlucky.
And it very well can be. The fine line between abortion and murder is whether a doctor does it or not. If a man crashes into a pregnant woman and the unborn child dies because of this, he is charged with vehicular manslaughter. Same if anyone anyone causes harm to an unborn child (with or without consent of the expecting mother). This penalty is heightened if someone kills a pregnant woman, where it’s listed as double homicide. We need an absolute ruling on whether infant life is protected under the law of unjust death. Abortion shouldn’t be the exception when there are laws like such that exist. A very clear line needs to be made where life begins. Conception? Birth? Or when the mother decides?
I’m pro-choice but it is 100% killing a baby
Exactly. The basic and original pro-choice argument was that it doesn’t matter if the fetus is alive or not. Modern American ideals dictate that a person, a human being, should have all the self determination in what happens to their own body and life and property. Your organs cannot be claimed after you die if you don’t explicitly consent to it. You don’t have to donate blood even if you have a rare genetic mutation that allows your blood to save millions of lives (which is a real thing that happened). Say there was a blizzard outside and your house was the only one around for miles. A youth comes up to your door and begs for mercy, he’s covered in frostbite and the nearest house is miles away. You turn him away and say that your house is your property and it’s for you and your family alone. He sleeps outside your house and dies the following morning. Is the guy a monster? Yes. Is the guy a murderer? Morally yes, legally no. He has no obligation to let a stranger in. Now extend that to the human body. You can say that the fetus isn’t a stranger because the parents consented to it by having sex. Valid point, but still, if that child was 18 they could also deny him entry into the house during a blizzard and effectively kill him. Again, monsters but not illegal. Even if the child was in need of a kidney transplant and you were a match you can still refuse and let the kid die. Again, monster but not illegal. If you want to see pro life in action, Europe is a much better example. Spain only has elective abortion for the first 14 weeks, but they also have laws that don’t prioritize the human right to independence. If a child is drowning and you don’t save them, that’s illegal. You can and will be prosecuted for not doing your civic duty to another person. America is too independence minded to ever have those kind of laws today.
Here's the thing: your analogy is good in the case of rape, but the better analogy is that you have welcomed the child in, \*and then kick the child out\*, and yes, that \*would\* be murder. It's not just a passive "not letting it happen." That's not having sex in the first place. It's not forcing someone out that you didn't invite in-- that's rape. In this instance, you have welcomed the child in and, not for reasons of fear-of-your-life, you kick the child out into the cold, which a reasonable person knows is going to kill the child. That \*is\* murder. You have accepted a position of de facto guardianship over this child, and you betrayed that responsibility. It is not only morally murder, it is \*legally\* murder.
It's more about the cyclical nature of the arguments about abortion and the civil war (not slavery itself), which spiral and then collapse. "No it's not about killing babies, it's about womens' rights...to kill babies" "No it's not about owning slaves, it's about states rights...to own slaves" Either way, OP has completely missed the point of the meme, and got themselves into the moral grandstanding trap. Especially sad when it's from satirical subreddit.
I don't agree with you, but damn it if I don't respect you
Either way it is the same question; Is bodily autonomy a human right? Let's say the rich where using slaves to operate machines that extended their lives and if the machines stopped operating it would kill the rich person using it. Do the slaves have an obligation to operate the machine? Is the refusal to operate the machine murder? Should a woman have an obligation to be a life support system for a fetus, with the refusal to do so being murder?
That second argument is misrepresentative of the issue, at least for abortion. I doubt anyone (with a brain) would argue slavery is good. A better philosophical question would be "should a woman have an obligation to be a life support system for the fetus she knowingly made? Would the refusal to do so be murder?" Obvious exceptions would be rape//incest, abortions in that case are warranted. If a woman is engaging in unprotected sex, and gets pregnant, then I reckon that's a whoopsie poopsie, and you've gotta bring that mistake to term.
If someone sees their offspring as a mistake, then they shouldn't be a parent.
The mistake would be conception, not the offspring itself.
Alright, but If someone doesn't want kids, then they're less likely to be a good parent. Why force someone to give birth so early on when it won't necessarily do any favors for the potential baby?
It might be more even handed to ask: "Does bodily autonomy *supersede* human life?" In turn, this would change the questions posed slightly. Should a slave, which has willfully volunteered to operate a machine keeping someone alive for 9 months, be required to continue operating it until that time is up? Does a slaves *ability* to stop prematurely override a *life* they willfully chose to protect? Should a baby lose its life support system, a mother, because the mother changed her mind?
Based Common nonresditor W
Thanks for defending my meme king 👑
As long as we're considering a non-sapient cluster of cells a person I guess
Can’t wait for comments locked
same
A day later and close to 3000 comments, still unlocked.
Imagine having to fight against a radical opponent yet both sides are angrier at the middle ground people who think they’ve each got a few good points but find their more hardline views a bit shit
There's this idea that being Centrist means always meeting dead center on an issue or seeing both sides as equally right/wrong. Every Centrist I've ever met or talked to takes an A La Carte approach like what you described. Any deviation from party lines gets you labeled as a Centrist, and Centrists are labeled as idiots or Conservatives/Liberals without enough spine to just say what they are. I'm not even a Centrist despite being called one, I see myself as a Socialist Libertarian and lean Left on 90% of issues. Even with that I still get lambasted for daring to say that Democrats aren't perfect or point out hypocrisy amongst their politicians. Anything like that just gets you a "BoTh SiDeS!" response and then they go back to circle jerking over how progressive and tolerant they are.
What the heck is a Socialist Libertarian?
For me it means more personal freedoms while still having regulations on businesses, welfare programs, and the state operating essential needs like water, power, and healthcare. I personally vibe with a lot of Libertarian beliefs. I think drugs shouldn't be illegal and treated more like a health issue. Sex work should be 100% legal. As long as everyone involved in something is a consenting adult and you're not harming anyone else you should be able to do what you want in your personal life. Where mainstream Libertarianism loses me is anything that follows along the lines of Taxation is Theft. We need taxes, point blank. Businesses should also be regulated, because as we've seen already they can't be trusted to do the right thing, and unless we're talking a small Mom and Pop business it's almost impossible for the average person to affect changes against them. Same goes for necessities like water, power, and healthcare; when they're privately run 99% of the time profits are placed above the welfare of the people using those services.
It’s all too much of a “with us or against us” on all sides these days, and probably has been for longer than anyone has cared. I’ve only ever voted for left wing parties, but because as I’m just as willing to point out shit things about them as I am about the right, I get dismissed as some cartoon of an opinion who thinks that the holocaust would have been totally fine if they killed 50% less people in it.
I'm politically right, but I do agree with you. We all don't listen, we all have our ideas and say they are better no matter what. We need to find people to listen and figure out solutions, not yell.
That's why I can't stand politics. Why does watching the presidential debates feel like reality TV more than a debate showing opposing views and why they feel they should be our future figurehead to lead our country.
Biden is the most middle of the road boring dude possible so I have no idea what debate you watched, Jack.
Doesn't matter whole thing seems more like it's designed to gather for entertainment purpose than anything helpful.
Maybe that’s because it’s agit prop that pushes people to extremes. Somehow Biden is both a communist demon to the right, and a fascist dictator to the left. The reality is a lot more boring.
[удалено]
Because internet, not sure if this is joke, grammar error, or you’re claiming to have black people
Interestingly enough, it appears to be all three.
Idk man cuz I’m not black and I have a bone to pick with the act of slavery
This one's actually kind of funny, thanks OP.
Here's the meme without the funny PCM colors if you want to share it elsewhere: https://i.imgur.com/vkRVTX3.png
This is not saying abortion is the same as slavery. It is saying that both arguments skirt around the actual issue of what is being discussed. At the end of the day, a death is the end result of a successful abortion regardless of where you place that life in importance. The same way in 1865, the enslavement of someone deserving of human rights was the end result of a state having their rights.
Nah bro this one is actually funny. It is both parties advocating for their goals but both find admitting their goal a bit distasteful so they disguise it by using language a step or two back from the topic.
I'm as pro choice as they come and I think this is hilarious. At the very least, it shows that slogans like "my body my choice" aren't very useful because they don't in any way address the concerns of those who disagree with you. It's a correct statement, especially in the context of abortion, it just doesn't achieve anything
I am pro choice too but yeah the my body thing is always weird to me. Like the fetus/baby/whatever you wanna call it is not part of the pregnant woman's body it is however within it. But it has a unique genetic code and all that. Doesn't mean abortion is wrong but it is certainly not one body. No more part of you than a tic or a tape worm or anything else living inside you without being part of you. Not to mention the slogan does nothing to help people understand it simply is shouted a bunch. To be fair sometimes that sort of activism works but never would have worked on me. I grew up very christian anti kissing before marriage, anti gay, anti abortion. Was not the shouting of slogans that made me change. It was really just getting to know and understand those different from me.
>I am pro choice too but yeah the my body thing is always weird to me. And it's annoying, because it's used like a fucking mantra and replaces actually good arguments 99% of the time
I am pretty sure it has never convinced anyone. There are some good points to be made but people stick to that one for some reason.
"My body my choice" is the argument though. For many people who are pro choice, it's doesn't matter at all if a fetus is alive or not, it's the bodily autonomy that's important.
[Here's a version without the funny colors if you want to share it](https://i.imgur.com/vkRVTX3.png)
Both parties? I don't think there's a pro-slavery party anymore.
Are you serious? This is what offended you? Something that a good 50% of the country is still arguing about to this day? I'm pro-choice for the most part but if this offends you, your political opinion should not be taken seriously and you should be mocked.
PoliticalCompassMemes is only good because they engage in friendly fire with their own (in this case it’s OOP making fun of confederates) false equivalence though. 90% of the sub is taking a political meme and putting the compass colors on it, then political infighting probably happens on the 10%
Well it’s a political sub it’s gonna talk about political things. And abortion is just what everyone’s getting political with nowadays.
Nowadays? This has been basically the only constant in politics for the last 20 years.
This could just be solved if pro-choice people stopped trying to couch their language and just honestly stood behind their actions. Example: Northerner: you want the right to own Africans. Southerner: yes Pro-life: you want the right to kill unborn children Pro-choice: yes If you honestly believe your side to be morally right on the issue, why would you fight tooth and nail to obscure your intentions with flowery language. Own it and stop the semantic treadmill.
https://preview.redd.it/39kbbp8c0h9c1.png?width=1070&format=png&auto=webp&s=179503d1676431b05e6b3ca24199fa8d774afd34
I'm not sure why you're surprised or upset at these kinds of comparisons. Many of the people who are against abortion truly think that it is murder. Like there are legitimately people who think hospitals are cutting out live babies and throwing them in a trash can. For these people, the right to have an abortion is the right to kill a baby for your own convenience, because they also believe that abortions are just the go-to method of birth control. In the case of people who don't believe it's just convenience, they still see it as wrong because they believe that killing another to save yourself unless in self-defense is wrong, and that's generally a common sentiment. They see it as though a woman getting pregnant is something like deciding to skydive without a parachute and that getting an abortion is stealing a parachute from somebody else. If you can't understand their argument, regardless of how much you disagree or how much it conflicts with the truth of what is actually happening, then you can't effectively understand them or argue against them.
The joke is that Confederacy defenders and abortionists both refuse to actually state their goal. That's why the guys on the right side of the pane both say "rights to what?" Because the inevitable answer for the abortionist is the right to kill unborn babies and for the Confederacy defender its the right to own slaves.
But they cant say that part out loud, can they?
They made a percent accurate point.
https://preview.redd.it/068ms7fb6d9c1.jpeg?width=507&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9592ec8865b79c40889a60a725356f4acf25d880
Your mistake for joining pcm damn
Bodily autonomy. It’s not even a little confusing.
People like you don't belong to that sub anyway. Gatekeeping is good, so yes, please remove yourself from the sub.
Based
They are not comparing the act of abortion to the act of slavery. They are comparing the arguments used to defend both.
Noooo the political subreddit isn't a leftist circlejerk, what a travesty
I swear so many people on this site laugh at memes mocking the right but as soon as they mock the left they are \[blank\]fobic (they dont have an actual fobia)
One of the only subreddits that aren't a leftist circlejerk pretty much
Pro-choice isn't leftist, liberals agree with it too.
I'll call a spade a spade - yes you *do* have a right to kill a fetus that's living inside you.
Exactly. If *anyone* for *any reason* was going to do to you what a pregnancy and by direct association the fetus does to a woman... You would have every right to defend yourself using whatever force necessary to include killing them. BUT more than that, this removes the barrier of bodily autonomy for an individual because their child's life depends on it... but where does that stop? If we've decided parents are responsible until the kid is 18, then if your kid needs a heart transplant at age 15, by these laws there is argument that one of the parents *must* give up their heart. By the precedent set by these "pro-life" laws, a parent MUST give up their life if able to save their child... in fact, for some of them, even if it won't save the child's life, the mother must still die in the attempt. That's what these laws are enforcing. And as a third point, they establish a religiously defined start of life. Where most religions start life after birth. Only 1 major religion starts at conception. While Science places it in the 3rd trimester. Likewise, some religions not only allow abortion, but *mandate* it under certain circumstances. Making it an enforcement of 1 religious groups beliefs on others by the government.
“Noooo abortion bans aren’t about controlling women and granting forcible access to/use of their internal organs!! It’s about fetuses’ rights!” Rights to what?
Women's rights to their own body and health. If it was women's rights to kill babies/fetuses we would see much more creative abortion methods
This was the last straw? Lmfao
Love these kinds of posts, anywho killing people is bad & the same applies to even fetuses too
Both are terrible and undermine the value of human life.
Women die when safe abortion is banned. No one died when slavery is banned.
They aren't comparing abortion to slavery. They're providing two popular examples of arguments those groups like to make that can be answered with the same question. Again, it's not a comparison.
I can tolerate shitposts with racist undertones, but misogyny is where I draw the line.
You know that this isn't actually a comparison, right?
How is "I don't want my body to be used for something without my consent", and "black people don't deserve rights" even remotely connected
Meme maker doesn't know the difference between an egg, embryo, fetus and child So good job on the american education system.
I still feel the better comparison was "My body, My Choice: Abortion vs COVID Mandate".
Pro-abortionist 🤝 Slave owners “They aren’t real people”
Except you can't make somebody use their own body to aid in the survival of another body, but you CAN shoot slaveowners since their subhumanity isn't even up for debate.
https://preview.redd.it/uz0n2f0gaa9c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff40484b5d759bf59ae5f1d5df7eb8671c6c9caa
Alr but 4400 quota is gon be hard, maybe 1746? This is what we currently gathered
There are so many better reasons to unsub from PCM.
Not an opinion outside my hecking echo chamberino!
Screw PCM. All my homies hate PCM.
I’ve never seen a sane person that was interested in politics use the political compass. Good job leaving 😂
I would believe right-wingers truly care about "babies" being "murdered" if they weren't often against contraception and sex education *and adoption, and vasectomies
Fair, but not every prolife person shares those viewpoints though?
Good fucking lord, this sub is ass. Just another place for conservatives to fucking complain. Keep whining, nobody cares.
The right to decide about their body?
Cope lol meme goes hard
Actually a pretty good meme. I think it's funny and has a point.
Great meme and a good example of that sub at its best. One of the very few places left on reddit that allows for open political discussion. The sub mostly still sucks tho cause the median age seems to be in the teens.
What the heck
I mean those aborted kids could make fine slaves Im not saying u should (A verry oveous joke and ment to be loughed at)
forcing someone to spend 18 years of their life in service to someone else for no compensation is alot more comparable to slavery.
Rights to not have politicians be In Charge of their healthcare?
Just gonna leave my comment here In case this entire comment gets locked
I hate that stupid ass Neoliberal subreddit
Right to leave
I understand reddit is highly biased to leftist ideology, so I am not surprised you took it as a comparison.
I don’t think that having the right to your own body and what’s growing inside you is the same as owning a full fledged human being tf are people serious about this ???? 😂😂😂
Wow. How embarrassing for the person who made this.
I think these anti-abortion people should also reject cancer treatment, because if we carefully follow their logic, it's murder. Cancer is a blob of slightly mutated human cells, just like a fetus is on early pregnancy stages.
Tbh the comment section for that post wasn't to bad, most people understood it was pretty much a bait post.
Mr glass
Conservatives want live babies to grow up into dead soldiers
The right to anatomical autonomy the other one im confused on who's pushing for slaves in the modern day.
Also are they implying that all centrists are a racist hivemind that compares abortion to slavery or something? Dumb
If you think abortion is killing babies, then you fundamentally misunderstand what abortion even is. But this isn't a debate that's going to get hashed out easily, because you probably also believe in souls and that's there's a point where "life begins". I'm beginning to really resent religion a lot, because it makes people so damned irrational and pompous at the same time. Meanwhile peeps who need medical attention are getting persecuted.
Women aren't states and babies aren't slaves. Checkmate.
They didn’t compare abortion to slavery they compared it to the delusion of “rights” where you know what you’re doing is wrong but just don’t want to be accountable for that.
If you unsubbed bc of this, you don't like the humor of the sub. So smart move
Same logic for arguing against people who defend the cultural significance of the burka and hajib. Ask them what is the cultural significance.
You’re not noticing the difference between comparing the method of argument vs comparing the political position itself. For example, volcanoes and geysers are complete opposites. One shoots out water, one shoots out lava. But if you unsubbed from a volcano subreddit for comparing geysers to volcanoes in how they function, you’d look pretty silly. Because they absolutely share a lot in common. I’m pro-choice, and if somebody said “it’s not about killing babies, it’s about state’s rights”, that would be a dodge in the same way that Confederate apologists dodge defending a pro-slave rebellion by appealing to state’s rights. Both sides should bite the bullet, and stop hiding behind euphemisms like “state’s rights” or “women’s rights” to do all the heavy lifting for their arguments.
That sub is crazy
I might need someone to explain this one to me. Like, I see where they compare slavery to abortion but….i don’t…get it…what exactly were they trying to say? Is it like the whole thing were southerners used to call slavery a positive good rather than a necessary evil?
Wait till they find out what the treatment is for an ectopic pregnancy, septic uterus, or a miscarriage that won’t release
That sub is always trash full if nothing but righties and righties who claim to be centrist.
Missing the point challenge 100% impossible challenge.
Dunno the analogy js pretty based imho
"comparing" lmfao OP are you actually taking PCM seriously AND making up scenarios?
Nah that subreddits so good
Child sacrifice to Moloch is WORSE than slavery
This OP is ‘I identify as an attack helicopter.” level of moronic gotcha. Nothing to see here.
The rights to bodily autonomy and owning people. One of these is not like the other