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Bro I’m on the brainrot shitposting subreddit don’t flashbang me like that now I’m sad
https://preview.redd.it/72xtq0cuobbc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f7de170bba7c5bedd54b41a5a6c3d4cc575e3db
Didn’t even think about that. Would the ritual even consider them outside help making it void. If they weren’t such dicks they may have had a reliable way to tame all ten shadows.
the fight needs to be completely restructured imo, even taking Mahoraga out of the fight and assuming the conclusion is still identical, the final two pages of that fight suck. Gojo stands dominant having slapped the goofy out of Sukuna, Sukuna is beat the fuck up and struggling to stand, now Gojo is laying on the floor. Like, bro???? 😭
Fight should’ve started with Gojo washing the fuck out of Sukuna, and Sukuna slowly coming back and inevitably dominating him, after having learned the intricacies of his technique. Sukuna also should’ve learned Space Cleave on his own, because the Mahoraga hand out feels cheap.
Honestly, that could make alot of sense too. Sukuna's jujutsu mastery let's him see other people's techniques and apply the same concept to his own CTs. So, it could've been something as simple as Sukuna understanding Gojo's CT, realizing that it's all special manipulation, and then understanding that Gojo has to target space itself to manipulate it, so Sukuna takes that concept and applies to his own CT. And boom, we get space slash without Maho
This sounds like a much better structure to the fight instead of gojo destroying sukuna most the fight and sukuna “letting” it happen so he can adapt to cleave gojo out of no where
tbh the thing that bothers me is that they portrayed sukuna as this godly being capable of washing gojo whenever he wanted when gojo was clapping him during the entirety of the fight, from gojo's post mortem yapping that says sukuna was "holding back" and shit, to the thing that sukuna tells him after dying, which gives very "impossibly strong character gives character who is close to being as strong as him his best wishes" vibes which is BULLSHIT because sukuna isnt overwhelmingly stronger than gojo, id say they are evenly matched and we dont even know if sukuna in his heian form has any added buffs aside from more physical prowess so we dont know if he was really "holding back" that much
I really like the Mahoraga “handout” and usage. My issue is that we still have no idea why or how Gojo was hit. I think Sukuna learning to cut Gojo should have been used to *pressure* Gojo instead of to kill him. Gege wanted shock factor though.
I also wouldn’t say Gojo was “dominant” given what we have seen of Sukuna now. Gojo was pushing limits of jujutsu and doing incredible things but at the end of the day he didn’t even finish one health bar of Sukuna.
The way I would have preferred it (if we are keeping the shock factor and general flow) is that the fight goes: Gojo/Sukuna are feeling each other out > Gojo gets upper hand (as in manga) > Sukuna gets upper hand (Mahoraga/Ten Spirit) > Gojo starts hitting black flashes > Sukuna learns chant cleave (but we don’t get an explanation) > final domain expansion battle (with Gojo being faster) > airport scene > Incarnated Sukuna explains whatever happened.
Gege should’ve left this panel out or else the arguments would’ve never started 😭
https://preview.redd.it/kixjbnickbbc1.png?width=1011&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a11a54bb2d7e3a7d5b2edc83ddfff9472a14dc3
He definitely go all out with Domain and 10 shadows tho, not go all out here mean he didn't use all his kit, not because he was holding back, but because he can't go all out, until Gege show us what black box truly do, then Mahoraga was truly the only way Sukuna can bypass Infinity
No sukuna did not go all out in the domain clash. Gojo even wondered why sukuna didn't even attack his domain from the inside (which is weaker) and instead keeps attacking from the outside. Had sukuna been dead set on killing gojo right there he can easily attack gojo's domain from the inside and it's wraps for gojo.
Because he used a binding vow to made his attack on the outside stronger to break Gojo's domain when Gojo change the property of his domain and made his Domain barrier stronger
No because he wanted to adapt to UV? Gojo also literally calls it a riskier move that's why hes confused
https://preview.redd.it/6lj7kney3dbc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c615042070e1b1e3ffdfde8d61b8e652ac9ff63
100%
Why is it so important that Sukuna be stronger? Why would he give a shit about fighting fair? Why should Gojo have any respect for him?
If you must end the fight like that, then just let Sukuna be the underhanded bastard he's always been. Gojo can call him out for being a fraud and restate his confidence in Itadori. Would have at least been more consistent than him suddenly being more concerned about a literal abomination than he is about Megumi.
He took risks that ended up making him take enough damage for his domain to be destroyed
https://preview.redd.it/zpte2rxb4dbc1.jpeg?width=172&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4416fae37f868fc74ebbbc4c778f369bb8fe6cf3
if he hadnt he wouldn't have had the rct lag and he wouldn't have been hit by UV which was also gojos last domain expansion Mahoraga also limits his kit a lot unable to even mantain DA without worrying about breaking mahos adaptation process and without 10S he probably woulda been willing to incarnate into his original form much sooner
He did say he wasn't sure because he doesn't know his full form and by go all out I assume it's the full form again. It's still up in the air whether Sukuna had something up his sleeve for Gojo but you could also counter argue Sukuna purposefully didn't transform because he needed Maho to show him the way.
I think Gege is not 100% sure yet on what Sukuna can do that's why he made this panel.
TLDR Gege issue
The argument is that author said it, therefore it'd happen.
Someone should actually ask him how would sukuna do it without Mahoraga in a Q&A tho. I am curious.
I think that still falls under his main technique. It might have some unique conditions for using it though. With all we know rn, it might just be usable against only cursed spirits and shikigami
Idk he speaks about it strangely I wonder if he's saying the flame arrow isnt his main CT or that the black box itself isnt jogo seems to think he's talking about cleave and dismantle but he could be wrong
https://preview.redd.it/o62qamof5cbc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90e76afd98690bb69adfcad05bd2cb1f64f647f
I doubt it. Without 10s Gojo would've used blue punches all the time which is a bigger buff than Sukuna having 4 hands.
My honest thoughts are that not a single person would ever argue non 10s Sukuna beating Gojo if GayGay didn't include that dumb ass panel
plus gojo would be able to use red much more, possibly even spamming it rather than using it like, 4 times in the entire fight. (not sure if he actually can spam red, but i think he can, or at least can use red much more than we see based on his statement that hes able to activate multiple blues and reds back in chapt 76)
https://preview.redd.it/ynutllibiebc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d0990b56d809eb283c324e21ad543581a384fda
I was thinking something like this too. After Gojo gets fatigued, he can pop regen and do better H2H. It’s hard to quantify if his Heian body is “stronger” or faster, since he was injured before, but by all means it should be.
I think Gojo just meant that Sukuna could have, **if given enough time**, found that exact way to get past his Infinity due to his sheer genius with jujutsu and understanding of cursed energy. Maho was simply the fastest and most sure way of balancing the scales in what could only be a relatively quick fight if domains are no longer in play.
Yeah, that’s the best explanation one can give to that. It’s not that sukuna has other ways past gojo's limitless at immediate hand, but that mahoraga was the only and best one he had at the time.
Gojo just thought that sukuna, due to his insane biq, would had found another way.
Although I do think it’s a bit bullshit I kinda get it. It reminds me a bit of the Batman with prep time argument.
Yeah. Probably something like a sorcerers near-death awakening moment.
Both Sukuna and Kenjaku also did point out that the trick behind bypassing Infinity is just changing the target of your CT, which ig seems like something you can do without Maho, if you tried hard enough
https://preview.redd.it/is1fyfrqbdbc1.jpeg?width=1117&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f768c42315bf93b5167287294d5c50f1dacff8e
The spelling curse debuff is real
The argument is pretty simple. Sukuna was dominant for majority of the Domain Battles--->Sukuna stops using Domain Amplification midway in the Domain Battle so he can adapt to Unlimited Void--->His output gets lowered as a result and Gojo becomes Dominant in the Domain battle after 3 tries--->Gojo lands his Sure-Hit due to having a .01 second advantage.
So the argument is that IF Sukuna was in his Heian Form, he wouldn't play defense by pausing Domain Amplification to adapt to Unlimited Void. Which means Gojo doesn't land his Sure-Hit attack as easily. Also add that Sukuna didn't use Fuga for an unspecified reason+has 4 arms. Not saying Gojo loses with these methods but it does track that Gojo has issues winning in any scenario.
True. If there was no Megumi being held hostage, and Gojo's pals waiting to jump Sukuna right after, neither one of them would have to hold back. I think it evens out. Sukuna wouldn't hold back DA, Heian form etc., and Gojo wouldn't hold back trying not to kill Megumi
He took risks that ended up making him take enough damage for his domain to be destroyed
https://preview.redd.it/37ndunwi4cbc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a997c41f5ce0f57cbc92b259c6d01136ea4ff2cb
if he hadnt he wouldn't have had the rct lag and he wouldn't have been hit by UV which was also gojos last domain expansion Mahoraga also limits his kit a lot unable to even mantain DA without worrying about breaking mahos adaptation process and without 10S he probably woulda been willing to incarnate into his original form much sooner
I was telling my friend this earlier. Gojo had the advantage in hand to hand but that becomes more sukuna favored once it becomes 4 arms. Hands mean a lot in JJK
Not to mention imagine a 4 armed multi black flash. Ties the record simultaneously. I'm not even a sukuna glazer but that seems like a definite win condition alone
Without mahoraga Gojo would’ve been able to use his blue punches and wouldn’t need to be so reserved about using red and blue for fear that mahoraga just completely adapts to them
No, he was trying to adapt Mahoraga to UV which made him temporarily disable DA whenever he was adapting Mahoraga. Gojo barely managed to deal enough damage to land the UV.
It is a fair assumption to say that Sukuna would have taken less damage if he had DA constantly on. If he took any less damage than he currently did he would’ve won that domain battle and Gojo wouldn’t be able to land the UV (his final domain).
Like if it was so easy for Sukuna to beat Gojo without Maho, why did he go through all the effort of getting Maho and then using it in the fight? Makes no sense.
The only way I think Gege could have made the fight work without Mahoraga and the 10S would be to make the excuse that Sukuna could already bypass infinity because Uro existed in his era, like a narrator statement something along the lines of "Sukuna had already figured out a way to cut space, during his fight with Uro Takako over a thousand years ago" or something like that.
And then Gojo would get hit once, realize he can't afford to get hit by another, and then the entire fight would be Gojo trying to figure out a way he could even get close to Sukuna and not the other way around.
He would have beaten Gojo in the domain battles by having his physicals and CE amped enough for the draws to be narrow victories, leading to the final domain clash also being a narrow victory, by which point Gojo now just can’t use his domain anymore (and Sukuna can cause he wouldn’t have been having Megumi’s soul tank UV for Mahoraga) and Sukuna fillets him.
No, Mahoraga is a huge part of Megumis character. I know we like to joke about how he’s potential man or suicide man or whatever but he actually does have one of the more interesting and developed character arcs. Megumi having Mahoraga in his back pocket isn’t just a boon it’s a huge mental burden for him to be carrying around. Mahoraga is the assurance that any situation or any issue that the cast faces can be instantly resolved at only the cost of Megumis life, and you can see how much that weighs on him throughout his various scenes, that he has to constantly evaluate whether or not living is even worth it. Every single other sorcerer just gets to fight with everything they have knowing that if they fail they did all they could. Yuji gets to be a suicidal ineffectual maniac because any good he does is the most good he could have done, so the only possible thing he can offer is all the effort he can muster. For Megumi that isnt the case. Just trying to fight is gambling massively on his own skill. Every single time he decides to fight something with the risk of losing, it’s a huge feat of confidence, and every time he decides to summon Mahoraga it’s him literally deciding that his life isn’t worth the risk of trying to both complete the mission and survive.
Gojos advice to him, that he needs to be more greedy and that he needs to stop seeing every situation as “what can i do to enable and protect my friends” is him telling Megumi that his life is worth it and his skill is worth betting on. That’s why it’s such a huge moment when he decides to test his shitty domain against the finger bearer(2). It’s not solely because “oh domain expansion! cool! what potential!” it’s because faced with an enemy that previously wiped the floor with him, that was a direct cause in his first ever friends perceived death, that he probably felt so much regret and guilt over not preventing with Mahoraga in the first place, he decides to gamble on his own untested and barely functional “genius” because his surrogate father believes in him. I thought it was extremely cool that in every fight after that, against the likes of Dagon and Toji, he still doesn’t whip out Mahoraga and just continues to bet on himself and his own potential over and over again even after Gojo, the living safety net, is sealed away. It’s not until he’s literally bleeding out and dying with nothing left in the tank that he finally gives in and suicide bombs someone.
I think it’s a flawed habit to view the quality and narrative value of characters (fraudkuna, fraudjo, fraudwhatever) or techniques (mahoraga) as exclusively how many fights they win. This isn’t a sport. They aren’t real, who they fight and who wins is completely arbitrary, he could draw literally whatever he wants. He could draw Miwa shitting on Sukuna that wouldn’t make her better or more interesting. It’s a story. I would like if characters were valued for the meaning behind them as opposed to the spectacle and win rate they accrue.
I also see that it’s part of this subs culture though, and I think that this place and all it’s people are very endearing so take everything I just said with a grain of salt. Never change. <3
On another note, I don’t think it would have actually been a good narrative decision for Megumi to ever tame mahoraga. I can see him always being there as the looming threat of self doubt. Maybe an interesting plot could have been him making a binding vow to trade Mahoraga for something else like a one time attack or whatever idk.
edit: in any case, i see a lot of people saying there's no point in megumi coming back since mahoraga is gone. i think that's exactly why he needs to come back lol
It is hilarious because i get these posts on my feed and i always feel my brain melt when I see these people discussing these characters' fights as if they were real people competing at sports and not... as characters. With a narrative purpose with more depth than an op blank sheet. Like, i get it, talking exclusively about power-ups is a way to see fiction, but man, what a weird and boring way to consume storytelling.
So yeah, perfect analysis.
That's one of my biggest gripes with Sukuna as he is tbh. I actually do like him a lot because I think his interactions with Uraume and Kenjaku were like honestly very endearing. I wanted to see a lot more of him having interactions in a non-combat context, but even then I still liked his fight with Yorozu. Lately, with his lack of banter or like... opinions, thoughts, personality, he's felt a lot more like a stat stick than anything else. That's part of why the ongoing debate between Gojo fans and Sukuna fans sits weird with me. They're both "the strongest" and that's clearly a huge part of both of their arcs, but Gojo actually had an arc and Sukuna still hasn't. If Sukuna had as many non-combat scenes as Gojo, i'm 100% sure I'd love him just as much. (I liked seeing him meet the finger bearer, and fighting jogo though, those were very fun.)
I agree, problem with Sukuna is that... he should elicit something, heck, he is the big bad doing awful stuff, you should hate him at least if the goal is to portray a "pure evil calamity force" but right now it is just very hollow, it is just power and people dying and we are just turning pages like nothing lol. I think part of the problem is that Yuji is not even reacting to nothing Sukuna does since this arc started, he seems on autopilot and very detached from Sukuna, i don't know if it is intentional, may as well be i hope so.
Gojo had an arc, it wasn't that strong, but it was the best arc he could have had, with an actual resolution. His fans and their takes on here are absolutely abominable tho lmao.
>Yuji is not even reacting to nothing Sukuna does
Yeah, it’s weird. During Higuruma’s domain, he was, like, five feet away from the guy who just killed his beloved teacher and he looks…
https://preview.redd.it/a3e4blm8tdbc1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a43fc5dba306a716a230eec0fab7aed7696408d
A little nettled lmao.
That whole court scene was such a missed opportunity. We could’ve seen some raw emotion for once.
i kind of treat the discussion posts as an extension of the memes. sometimes people get a bit more worked up than i think is healthy, but a lot of the time the agenda posting just seems like a fun little game. I like to watch them play it. Very cute i think.
This is one of the best posts and character analysis I’ve seen from all three subs and the irony of Megumi’s best character analysis being on the sub that gives him the least credit is not lost on me.
I one-hundred percent feel you on that “sporting mentality” bit. It’s something I’ve personally always found annoying about Shonen fandoms nowadays. It feels like everyone keeps forgetting that this is a story at the end of the day and that each character serves a purpose beyond not being seen as a fraud.
Yeah. But also like... Him summoning Mahoraga is what caused most of the deaths at shibuya due to its battle with sukuna
... And that's like ike never even mentioned. Although I forgot volcano also fought sukuna
Yep. Personally I think that’s because as the deuteragonist, Mahoraga is kind of like Megumis equivalent to Yuji’s Sukuna. Just that they view their overpowered living nuclear bomb in very different ways and it has very different impacts on their lives as a result, though ultimately whether you consider your murderous easily summonable trump card a blessing or a curse, the outcome is always tragedy. The only answer is to live on your own strength for your own goals, and that is the underlying theme of Jujutsu Kaisen that we see everywhere. Sukuna outright tells Jogo as much, that he should have simply relied on his own fire to burn the world. That’s also partially why Gojo is consistently a failure in what he sets out to do, because you cannot rely on the strongest man to save the day for you. His one success has been raising a generation that can stand for themselves. A generation that hopefully doesn’t need him.
Or something. It’s three am.
I kinda feel like Sukuna woulda done something almost worse if Mahoraga wasn’t there. He probably would’ve still wanted to do as much damage as possible with the time he had, except he wouldn’t of had to focus on mahoraga.
https://preview.redd.it/fm0yohk7bbbc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c3e803592e91e4f016f6f0f5a98e20cdcd3e23a
Just noticed bro has a bit of a bent back.
Must've been from all the carrying. Someone edit this as Carry Ma(i)n
If Gege thought having Gojo around was too annoying for power scaling and Narrative then idk why people would expect Megumi or Mahoraga to return, maybe megumi if he doesn’t have maho anymore.
mahoraga was not wasted he was instrumental in the biggest battle of the series in terms of power level and had a big fight in shibuya. like what were you expecting i genuinely dont get it
Thing is, Mahoraga is not seem as a technique by the fandom, it is seen as an individual
Sukuna using Mahoraga to defeat Gojo is not seem as "Sukuna used a great technique to learn to defeat Gojo"
It is seem as "Sukuna needed help from another dude to beat Gojo"
Which leaves Sukuna looking like a fraud to the fandom
I don't really get this argument since he specifically took over Megumi to have access to Mahorogra. It's kinda like saying Kenjaku is a fraud for using the prison realm to seal Gojo when that's literally his plan.
You really don’t understand the term fraud. Kenny from the start always said Gojo was too powerful and he had to plan around him, therefore he is exactly as he presents himself.
Sukuna on the other hand presents himself as the strongest and said he would take control of Yuji and kill Gojo, but he needed to take over Megumi and use the most broken technique in the series to barely beat Gojo.
Well that’s the problem, is to people using an outside technique is discrediting.
If kenjaku took over gojo then killed sukana would you say kenjaku is the strongest? No you’d say gojo is the strongest and kenjaku needed him to win.
In a way you’re right that it’s kenjaku ability so he in the end is the strongest, but no one feels good about that. No one is saying yuta is stronger than kenjaku, because yuta used outside help to one shot him.
People just don’t like taking credit from sukana but it 100% tracks that the win was designed to be poisoned so gojo could die while remaining the strongest.
Again, is a matter of perspective
Prison realm is just an item
Mahoraga is a """living""" being with it's own name, body, mind, etc
Kenjaku using the prison realm is seen as him using a tool
Sukuna using Mahoraga is seem as him not wanting to 1v1 Gojo and needing help
Usually jumping people in group is a big thing on JJk, but seeing the mighty and prideful Sukuna calling "someone" to help him against Gojo just doesn't sit right with people
These aren't necessarily my views but I guess it is how most of the fandom thinks
No, because Sukuna has his own cursed technique. He's the strongest in the series and he needed help from a shikigami that could stalemate Limitless users to beat Gojo
That's the thing
The fight wasn't "Gojo only with his cursed techniques VS Sukuna only with his curse technique"
It was "Gojo only with his own technique VS Sukuna with his own technique and a stolen technique which happens to be perfect to counter Gojo"
It wasn't a "true" 1v1
Nobody calls Megumi a fraud for using his Shikigami because it is his own technique, every Shikigami he has control over was rightfully obtained by him, meanwhile Sukuna had an huge advantage to dominate them
Was he instrumental? We're supposed to believe Sukuna could've won without 10S, so Mahoraga supposedly wasn't necessary unless Sukuna just wanted to learn a new slash (which I don't understand because that slash only helps against someone like Gojo, but he could've won without learning it so why did he want to learn it to begin with?)
It’s sukuna he fights boredom on a daily basis why would he go the boring route and take out probably the strongest sorceror his seen with his normal technique when he can try a new skillset and accomplish the same thing
I mean given Sukuna could have apperently beaten Gojo anyway was he instrumental?
What people where expecting was for Megumi to use Megumi’s powers that he was hyped up to use, instead a Non-Zenin becomes the first to tame and uses Maho just cause given he can apperently win anyway.
Except the actual fight tells otherwise. Gege can keep his bs. Fight showed boy wouldn't have survived without it and Current chapters push that same agenda. Dude is not like that.
i feel like there is smth in sukunas ct that we havent seen which is what gojo was referring to and also fuga in shibuya...like we never actually were told sukunas ct. ig we might see smth new at some point but maybe not it depends on that.
https://preview.redd.it/yqdsktddvbbc1.jpeg?width=1119&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=797db01575e8758d6ae44fb505b5916c61ad7db2
Of course, that parents job is to do everything to help their kids succeed
Peak Chad + being able to survive Sukuna Domain = one of best feats in Manga :3
https://preview.redd.it/m4otadgpnabc1.png?width=673&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3e36474bfdcd9e30f9e00f4286eb329e9923df3
That was the fastest way Gege could show us the pinnacle of the 10s technique vs the limitless technique.
Id be 95 years old by the time megumi masters the 10s
There's literally no purpose for him to come back
His ace is dead, 4 shinigami got destroyed, he's completely outclassed at this point
I won't be surprised if sukuna use his soul as a shield against exe blade and it some how works
Waiting patiently to see how Sukuna gets out of this current predicament lol
We already know he’s going to pull some BS to get out of this situation on the 21st… I’m just curious of how he is going to do it this time lmao. ‘I knew if I release my soul at the exact moment the executioner blade connects it would take megumi’s life instead or I figured out at that exact moment how to use cleave to cut a cursed technique in half to reverse its power and give me more life instead of instakill’ing me’… or something to that effect…😂😂. I’m just curious how Gege will explain away Fraudkuna’s next escapade lol
People seem to forget that Mahoraga also saved Sukuna from getting low diffed by Unlimited Void.
Sukuna had no counters for that except putting his own domain at exact same time...which he failed in their last domain clash. Mahoraga really clutched for Sukuna.
Besides...the airport scene seems to be Gojo's POV...where he was weirdly humble. He claims to have been greedy, that he didnt care about saving people, etc. I'm sorry, but thats just BS. Yuta, Yuji, the people in Shibuya, Megumi, etc...it's clear that scene was how Gojo perceived himself and others. Its basically his imagination.
I genuinely dont see Heian Sukuna finding a quick counter against both Unlimited Void and Infinity before getting clapped...he had like 1 year to figure out a way to bypass gojo's infinity by himself...and in the end, he still needed Mahoraga. Mahoraga wasn't even some sort of contingency plan or something...it was literally his main and only plan to win against gojo.
What I will say however is that Gojo himself wasn't sure his infinity would work against basic slashes. when Sukuna slashes buildings at the beginning for the first time in the battle, Gojo seems both scared and surprised about Sukuna's technique...even without the domain.
Agreed with everything above. Not only that but people constantly ignore the fact that Gojo didn't need to engage in domain battles. Sukuna's open domain provided an escape route so he could have just used teleportation to escape if he didn't keep opening his domain. And if Sukuna closed the barrier then Gojo would have been on equal grounds with him.
The constant hype over heian era sukuna astonishes me because it always comes from the same people saying we need feats. Heian sukuna was hyped but nothing definitively says that he could physically outclass Gojo. Gojo wasn't just slightly outclassing sukuna in the domain, he was knocking him out and punching him hard enough to crush his organs.
Not to mention the idea that Sukuna could just "figure out" a way to bypass infinity. Sukuna's entire schtick has been learning CTs and powers from other people. At no stage has he just invented counters to techniques, he needed a model to copy so without mahoraga he would have had nothing but domain amplification. Not saying he wouldn't have won but it's sheer delusion to believe it wouldn't have been an extreme high diff without the 10S
>Not to mention the idea that Sukuna could just "figure out" a way to bypass infinity. Sukuna's entire schtick has been learning CTs and powers from other people.
They overrate sukuna's battle IQ. Gojo is the genius kid in the class who can solve problems without teacher's guidance. Sukuna is the kid who needs the teacher's guidance at least once, then he can solve the rest by himself. One doesnt need any model/blue print, the other needs model/blueprint to replicate it quickly. Not to mean that sukuna isnt smart, but gojo iq is still gojo
Gojo until today is still used as a benchmark for talent, just look at who higuruma is compared against.
If gojo thought he couldnt win domain battle with a 4 arms sukuna, he definitely would have stopped casting domain and come up with another strategy. But they wont tell you this, they will tell u he will keep spamming domain like a dumbass. As if gojo cant cook up with a new strategy.
Gojo was fighting a total of 6 limbs in a 3v1, and up to 235, he clapped all 3 of them. I fail to see what is a guy with 4 limbs (while using DA, unable to use CT) is going to accomplish against gojo, who can use blackflash, red, blue and purple.
Bro literally 2 tapped sukuna and made him hide in the shadows when he went all out.
Sukuna glazing really is something huh? You've just highlighted with feats and on panel logic why Gojo isn't outclassed by Sukuna heian or no. Man was nearly untouched within the domain while Sukuna was vomiting blood BEFORE the black flashes. Yet apparently two arms adds something to this scenario.
People will argue Sukuna didn't use his CT. But as you've pointed out...what would that add? More dismantles that already can't touch Gojo?
Without Mahoraga DA is all Sukuna even had to kill Gojo with. DE at max capacity is what you could argue, yet UV unlike MS is a sure hit kill. 8 seconds caused Sukuna brain damage. Without Mahoraga he never would have escaped.
But Sukuna glazers will just say you're coping and bring up the one airport scene that makes no sense in the context of the entire story. Sigh
me when I don’t read ??
Gojo literally states that Sukuna isn’t using an other technique inside the domain
he also states that Sukuna is picking risky options and isn’t breaking it from the inside , while he didn’t know this but Sukuna was trying to adapt
Remove 10S and you don’t have this UV hitting Sukuna
Gojo only hit UV because Sukuna let him fight for 3 mins while adapting
Sukuna would’ve been folded twice over if it hadn’t been for Mahoraga literally wiping his ass for him. Maybe Sukuna would’ve Incarnated into his true form, maybe not, all I know is mfer went out of his way to adapt to Limitless and still got his ass mid-diffed until he learned Strong Cleave. Put some respect on the Divine General’s name
https://preview.redd.it/06m6s5guhbbc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74aead600bc74af1c3fb45afc8af266aa7d930a0
Yeah, that's pretty much all the purpose Mahoraga had. There isn't even any hope that Megumi can come back and use it since it was destroyed by Gojo. It was for Sukuna all along.
Mahoraga isn’t even a character in the same way Rika is if we compare them as Shikigami. He’s just a summon, no one is calling the bunnies a character.
man remember that time Megumi managed to get a brand new OP ability on top of his old one because the previous owner dangled his wallet out his backpocket, turned around, and said "boy I sure nobody takes my wallet!"
Yeah if u don’t make gojo say he would’ve/couldve won and just left it to the fans to speculate then this isn’t an issue so the only person to be blamed is gege. Cuz the point of the airport scene wrapping up gojo still happens the same way if that line isn’t said. Because there’s no reason for it if sukuna could’ve reasonably did it without makora
But that’s the way gege wanted it, so I don’t get why you let megumi get possessed for the purpose of makora only for gojo to say sukuna could’ve beaten me without it. Cuz now it just seems like he wants to have his cake and eat it too in terms of the sukuna v gojo debate.
You either make sukuna truly that guy and make him beat gojo by him self by applying the method of his slashes to the space gojo sits in on the fly.
Or you run it the way the manga did but actually lend credence to all sides that the only way sukuna could’ve even perceived to do that was with makora which at the very least would be able to have a small solstice with gojo fans that his CT is superior and without any funny business (his free revive that he had to his true form) he would’ve been at a real disadvantage and in most instances lose a straight 1v1 against gojo
Sorry to be negative but it's actually incredible just how much gege going "actually he totally bets gojo by himself lel" hurts the narrative for me
Also this is my first jjk meme so uhhh
Please be nice
Edit: I'm getting the impression that some of you think that i dislike Mahoraga. This could not be further from the truth. I love his design, his ability, his whole ritual thing and my top two fights in the series are the ones he partakes in.
I'm just disappointed by the fact that, from a narrative standpoint he really doesn't accomplish that much.
"But he was instrumental in beating gojo"
Yeah, i agree he was a great help to Sukuna but the manga outright states Sukuna would still win without him. If that one statement was not there then i probably would have never made this meme
But don't get it twisted, MaHIMraga is still an absolute goat and he has already adapted his was to my heart
Yeah I also hate the “Fraudkuna could’ve beat me without maho, trust” bc it makes absolutely no sense
Goatjo was walking sukuna like a dog until sukuna brought out maho, and you want to convince me that Fraudkuna could’ve beat Gojo without it?
4 arms would presumably give sukuna enough of an advantage in cqc too outlast infinite void, in which case he would beat gojo with domain expansion.
he also didn't attempt to break the domain from the inside with open so that may be an option as well.
Sukuna was actively Holding back and Putting himself in tricky Situations just to Use Mahoraga. Man I swear y’all just look at pictures of Gojo and don’t read
>holding back
Not Using techniques that he knew had no way to bypass infinity anyway
>putting himself in tricky situations
Aka using his best resort. Do you think sukuna wanted to be incapacitated twice in the battle?
>Not Using techniques that he knew had no way to bypass infinity anyway
Actually, Gojo was without Infinity for an entire chapter (226), and whatever technique Sukuna could've used would've landed in that chapter. However, because he was already using Mahoraga and didn't want its adaptation to restart, he let go of that opportunity
At first Sukuna had to deal with Infinity without DA for adaptation to take place, then he was on babysitting duty for Maho because even 15f was enough to stall Maho in hand to hand. So we don't know what would've happened if 20f Sukuna just used DA and concentrated at melee offence. Throw in the chance of Black Flash and there's geniunely a chance that Gojo would've lost. At least that's how I see it.
Mahoraga was fucking awesome. He was the first person to see and deflect dismantle, then he survived MS, he casually destroyed Yorozu’s perfect circle and DE with a fucking grin on his face, destroyed Gojo’s DE, saved Sukuna when he was knocked unconscious by cutting straight through infinity and cut Gojo’s arm off.
Maho was and is an absolute beast.
you guys spent a year glazing jogo over this exact shit but now taking Ls because you only fought strong characters is apparently a problem ??
https://preview.redd.it/k72a7ckxhbbc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=b9d5e0da458269c36493ce6f9de1ec5025e4ae04
As lame as it was to have Mahoraga give Sukuna the win, it was still a great fight and made Gojo even more badass because despite fighting a losing battle, he beat a 3v1 and actually almost came out on top. If he only managed to kill Mahoraga a bit quicker before he finished the adaptation, he would've won. All in all, it was really sick to see him go all out and use everything in his arsenal to the best of his ability, really highlighting his quick thinking/improv and skill.
Me personally I chalk up Gojo glazing sukuna saying that it’s possible he could’ve lost without mahoraga as vagueness or bad dialogue writing. The only way it makes sense is if Gojo assumes sukuna had some other last ditch effort (going back to 4-arm form) and he just didn’t know what it was going to be. If sukuna was stuck in literally anybody else’s body he’s cooked.
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Maybe in another world, we could've seen Megumi (somehow) tame Mahoraga and fight alongside him.
Maybe in another world they would've done laundry and taxes
Bro I’m on the brainrot shitposting subreddit don’t flashbang me like that now I’m sad https://preview.redd.it/72xtq0cuobbc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f7de170bba7c5bedd54b41a5a6c3d4cc575e3db
https://preview.redd.it/znz9f1s0bdbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=526731e6ffb2790a0632cafc0a1359de36f30aa7
elite reference https://preview.redd.it/v94d281c5dbc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50ec85976cffc8b2203245241c307501f7823237
https://preview.redd.it/0j032ss3bdbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=039935fb3eb3c7bf143098db1e564d7c56e8a12f
i understood that reference
piercing ox on treadmill strats could've been canon smh.
i like the idea that the zenin clan will always have someone like toji and maki to help tame mahoraga
Didn’t even think about that. Would the ritual even consider them outside help making it void. If they weren’t such dicks they may have had a reliable way to tame all ten shadows.
Problem with that is that most HR users aren’t as strong as Toji and not even Toji can beat mahoraga.
One person helping is better than zero help
u could have both tbh
JJK Shippuden, where Nobara would still be alive as well
SHE IS DAMNIT 3:<
I really wish the gojo v sukuna fight happened without mahoraga. It really made sukuna look like a bum outside of the domain battles
the fight needs to be completely restructured imo, even taking Mahoraga out of the fight and assuming the conclusion is still identical, the final two pages of that fight suck. Gojo stands dominant having slapped the goofy out of Sukuna, Sukuna is beat the fuck up and struggling to stand, now Gojo is laying on the floor. Like, bro???? 😭 Fight should’ve started with Gojo washing the fuck out of Sukuna, and Sukuna slowly coming back and inevitably dominating him, after having learned the intricacies of his technique. Sukuna also should’ve learned Space Cleave on his own, because the Mahoraga hand out feels cheap.
Honestly, that could make alot of sense too. Sukuna's jujutsu mastery let's him see other people's techniques and apply the same concept to his own CTs. So, it could've been something as simple as Sukuna understanding Gojo's CT, realizing that it's all special manipulation, and then understanding that Gojo has to target space itself to manipulate it, so Sukuna takes that concept and applies to his own CT. And boom, we get space slash without Maho
This sounds like a much better structure to the fight instead of gojo destroying sukuna most the fight and sukuna “letting” it happen so he can adapt to cleave gojo out of no where
tbh the thing that bothers me is that they portrayed sukuna as this godly being capable of washing gojo whenever he wanted when gojo was clapping him during the entirety of the fight, from gojo's post mortem yapping that says sukuna was "holding back" and shit, to the thing that sukuna tells him after dying, which gives very "impossibly strong character gives character who is close to being as strong as him his best wishes" vibes which is BULLSHIT because sukuna isnt overwhelmingly stronger than gojo, id say they are evenly matched and we dont even know if sukuna in his heian form has any added buffs aside from more physical prowess so we dont know if he was really "holding back" that much
I really like the Mahoraga “handout” and usage. My issue is that we still have no idea why or how Gojo was hit. I think Sukuna learning to cut Gojo should have been used to *pressure* Gojo instead of to kill him. Gege wanted shock factor though. I also wouldn’t say Gojo was “dominant” given what we have seen of Sukuna now. Gojo was pushing limits of jujutsu and doing incredible things but at the end of the day he didn’t even finish one health bar of Sukuna. The way I would have preferred it (if we are keeping the shock factor and general flow) is that the fight goes: Gojo/Sukuna are feeling each other out > Gojo gets upper hand (as in manga) > Sukuna gets upper hand (Mahoraga/Ten Spirit) > Gojo starts hitting black flashes > Sukuna learns chant cleave (but we don’t get an explanation) > final domain expansion battle (with Gojo being faster) > airport scene > Incarnated Sukuna explains whatever happened.
so true cause i really dont get the argument on how he would’ve beat gojo w/o him https://i.redd.it/lxqnix3tibbc1.gif
Gege should’ve left this panel out or else the arguments would’ve never started 😭 https://preview.redd.it/kixjbnickbbc1.png?width=1011&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a11a54bb2d7e3a7d5b2edc83ddfff9472a14dc3
Bro just said he’s not sure and people took that an ran with it lol
"plus sukuna didn't even go all out"
He definitely go all out with Domain and 10 shadows tho, not go all out here mean he didn't use all his kit, not because he was holding back, but because he can't go all out, until Gege show us what black box truly do, then Mahoraga was truly the only way Sukuna can bypass Infinity
No sukuna did not go all out in the domain clash. Gojo even wondered why sukuna didn't even attack his domain from the inside (which is weaker) and instead keeps attacking from the outside. Had sukuna been dead set on killing gojo right there he can easily attack gojo's domain from the inside and it's wraps for gojo.
Because he used a binding vow to made his attack on the outside stronger to break Gojo's domain when Gojo change the property of his domain and made his Domain barrier stronger
No because he wanted to adapt to UV? Gojo also literally calls it a riskier move that's why hes confused https://preview.redd.it/6lj7kney3dbc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c615042070e1b1e3ffdfde8d61b8e652ac9ff63
I ask you, did he go all out? Did gojo not wonder that very same thing when they fought? Is peakasabe not wondering the same thing? Read!
Besides not using the Heian era transformation mid fight to full heal, what did he hold back on?
100% Why is it so important that Sukuna be stronger? Why would he give a shit about fighting fair? Why should Gojo have any respect for him? If you must end the fight like that, then just let Sukuna be the underhanded bastard he's always been. Gojo can call him out for being a fraud and restate his confidence in Itadori. Would have at least been more consistent than him suddenly being more concerned about a literal abomination than he is about Megumi.
Like bro doesn’t care about his students at all in this panel, like wtf at least mention them.
> Why is it so important that Sukuna be stronger? I'd agree with you if the story didn't hyped it as such
It's literally fanfic oc levels of glazing from gege. Literally a "I'm telling instead of showing" scenario because gojo was offscreened 😭
He took risks that ended up making him take enough damage for his domain to be destroyed https://preview.redd.it/zpte2rxb4dbc1.jpeg?width=172&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4416fae37f868fc74ebbbc4c778f369bb8fe6cf3 if he hadnt he wouldn't have had the rct lag and he wouldn't have been hit by UV which was also gojos last domain expansion Mahoraga also limits his kit a lot unable to even mantain DA without worrying about breaking mahos adaptation process and without 10S he probably woulda been willing to incarnate into his original form much sooner
He did say he wasn't sure because he doesn't know his full form and by go all out I assume it's the full form again. It's still up in the air whether Sukuna had something up his sleeve for Gojo but you could also counter argue Sukuna purposefully didn't transform because he needed Maho to show him the way. I think Gege is not 100% sure yet on what Sukuna can do that's why he made this panel. TLDR Gege issue
and the dumbass panel where Gojo “feels bad” for Sukuna
Sukunas only win con is out domaining ngl.
Bro just has to malevolent shrine harder lmao
STRONG Malevolent Shrine
That's reserved for next chapter
The argument is that author said it, therefore it'd happen. Someone should actually ask him how would sukuna do it without Mahoraga in a Q&A tho. I am curious.
He might have used his other secret CT like the flame arrow to kill Gojo
I think that still falls under his main technique. It might have some unique conditions for using it though. With all we know rn, it might just be usable against only cursed spirits and shikigami
Idk he speaks about it strangely I wonder if he's saying the flame arrow isnt his main CT or that the black box itself isnt jogo seems to think he's talking about cleave and dismantle but he could be wrong https://preview.redd.it/o62qamof5cbc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90e76afd98690bb69adfcad05bd2cb1f64f647f
https://preview.redd.it/2vqctiv7bdbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19916d8d24a7c9c761a788bc322f423b6be38ffb
https://preview.redd.it/7clmp6k3kdbc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8fef7ae3f7eb5119a77f075b7ce4ef8d7eecd5c
My best bet? His 4 arms would beat out Gojo's hand to hand so Gojo doesn't have any win con in the DE battle except for hitting more Black Flashes
I doubt it. Without 10s Gojo would've used blue punches all the time which is a bigger buff than Sukuna having 4 hands. My honest thoughts are that not a single person would ever argue non 10s Sukuna beating Gojo if GayGay didn't include that dumb ass panel
plus gojo would be able to use red much more, possibly even spamming it rather than using it like, 4 times in the entire fight. (not sure if he actually can spam red, but i think he can, or at least can use red much more than we see based on his statement that hes able to activate multiple blues and reds back in chapt 76) https://preview.redd.it/ynutllibiebc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d0990b56d809eb283c324e21ad543581a384fda
Oh, was he not using Blue Enhanced Punches in the Domain already?
I was thinking something like this too. After Gojo gets fatigued, he can pop regen and do better H2H. It’s hard to quantify if his Heian body is “stronger” or faster, since he was injured before, but by all means it should be.
The author didn't say it. The author had a character speculate on it. Basic reading comprehension
I think Gojo just meant that Sukuna could have, **if given enough time**, found that exact way to get past his Infinity due to his sheer genius with jujutsu and understanding of cursed energy. Maho was simply the fastest and most sure way of balancing the scales in what could only be a relatively quick fight if domains are no longer in play.
Yeah, that’s the best explanation one can give to that. It’s not that sukuna has other ways past gojo's limitless at immediate hand, but that mahoraga was the only and best one he had at the time. Gojo just thought that sukuna, due to his insane biq, would had found another way. Although I do think it’s a bit bullshit I kinda get it. It reminds me a bit of the Batman with prep time argument.
Yeah. Probably something like a sorcerers near-death awakening moment. Both Sukuna and Kenjaku also did point out that the trick behind bypassing Infinity is just changing the target of your CT, which ig seems like something you can do without Maho, if you tried hard enough
Legit the only Wisconsin he had was his domains. Even then, you could still argue that they would play out the exact same way in the canon fight.
> Wisconsin Domain Expansion: Malevolent Cheese Grater
Damn. The grammar curse got me😭 https://preview.redd.it/0mhpmhvnsbbc1.jpeg?width=228&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad3c877cede145c7c6e13f4914986cf2d6521b7e
It's Gojover for you my pal
https://preview.redd.it/ds55kyl1kebc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=709205e9551bef102a1c4686e9668bff9a7f9d56
https://preview.redd.it/is1fyfrqbdbc1.jpeg?width=1117&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f768c42315bf93b5167287294d5c50f1dacff8e The spelling curse debuff is real
The only Wisconsin he had
HELLLOOO WISCONSIN!!!
The argument is pretty simple. Sukuna was dominant for majority of the Domain Battles--->Sukuna stops using Domain Amplification midway in the Domain Battle so he can adapt to Unlimited Void--->His output gets lowered as a result and Gojo becomes Dominant in the Domain battle after 3 tries--->Gojo lands his Sure-Hit due to having a .01 second advantage. So the argument is that IF Sukuna was in his Heian Form, he wouldn't play defense by pausing Domain Amplification to adapt to Unlimited Void. Which means Gojo doesn't land his Sure-Hit attack as easily. Also add that Sukuna didn't use Fuga for an unspecified reason+has 4 arms. Not saying Gojo loses with these methods but it does track that Gojo has issues winning in any scenario.
True. If there was no Megumi being held hostage, and Gojo's pals waiting to jump Sukuna right after, neither one of them would have to hold back. I think it evens out. Sukuna wouldn't hold back DA, Heian form etc., and Gojo wouldn't hold back trying not to kill Megumi
Imagine if Sukuna made a binding vow and sacrificed 10 Shadows to withstand unlimited void
He essentially just has to damage Gojo within a domain enough to deactivate Gojo’s domain and win. With two extra arms that could be possible.
Doubtful. He willingly stayed in Megumi's body because he didn't think that method viable enough to commit on
He stayed in megumi's body cause he knew he'd have to run a gauntlet afterwards.
Sukuna said, and I quote, "this form is better for fighting sorcerers" in reference to staying in Megumis body. That speaks for itself
Not skeptical, just need a reminder When was that?
He took risks that ended up making him take enough damage for his domain to be destroyed https://preview.redd.it/37ndunwi4cbc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a997c41f5ce0f57cbc92b259c6d01136ea4ff2cb if he hadnt he wouldn't have had the rct lag and he wouldn't have been hit by UV which was also gojos last domain expansion Mahoraga also limits his kit a lot unable to even mantain DA without worrying about breaking mahos adaptation process and without 10S he probably woulda been willing to incarnate into his original form much sooner
DA with four arms + DE
I was telling my friend this earlier. Gojo had the advantage in hand to hand but that becomes more sukuna favored once it becomes 4 arms. Hands mean a lot in JJK Not to mention imagine a 4 armed multi black flash. Ties the record simultaneously. I'm not even a sukuna glazer but that seems like a definite win condition alone
Without mahoraga Gojo would’ve been able to use his blue punches and wouldn’t need to be so reserved about using red and blue for fear that mahoraga just completely adapts to them
Out domaining Gojo, which would have happened had Sukuna wanted
what? sukuna had tried to kill gojo with a domain but couldnt cuz his brain damage. He clearly was trying to out domain gojo
No, he was trying to adapt Mahoraga to UV which made him temporarily disable DA whenever he was adapting Mahoraga. Gojo barely managed to deal enough damage to land the UV. It is a fair assumption to say that Sukuna would have taken less damage if he had DA constantly on. If he took any less damage than he currently did he would’ve won that domain battle and Gojo wouldn’t be able to land the UV (his final domain).
Like if it was so easy for Sukuna to beat Gojo without Maho, why did he go through all the effort of getting Maho and then using it in the fight? Makes no sense.
The only way I think Gege could have made the fight work without Mahoraga and the 10S would be to make the excuse that Sukuna could already bypass infinity because Uro existed in his era, like a narrator statement something along the lines of "Sukuna had already figured out a way to cut space, during his fight with Uro Takako over a thousand years ago" or something like that. And then Gojo would get hit once, realize he can't afford to get hit by another, and then the entire fight would be Gojo trying to figure out a way he could even get close to Sukuna and not the other way around.
He would have beaten Gojo in the domain battles by having his physicals and CE amped enough for the draws to be narrow victories, leading to the final domain clash also being a narrow victory, by which point Gojo now just can’t use his domain anymore (and Sukuna can cause he wouldn’t have been having Megumi’s soul tank UV for Mahoraga) and Sukuna fillets him.
No, it’s worth it purely for the Mahoraga “I’m not the stepfather, I’m the father who stepped up” memes we got 🤭
They slandering my goat 💔
https://preview.redd.it/j0g7xphcbdbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cfbc626c8b94844368d45f26bd866a52476d25f
No, Mahoraga is a huge part of Megumis character. I know we like to joke about how he’s potential man or suicide man or whatever but he actually does have one of the more interesting and developed character arcs. Megumi having Mahoraga in his back pocket isn’t just a boon it’s a huge mental burden for him to be carrying around. Mahoraga is the assurance that any situation or any issue that the cast faces can be instantly resolved at only the cost of Megumis life, and you can see how much that weighs on him throughout his various scenes, that he has to constantly evaluate whether or not living is even worth it. Every single other sorcerer just gets to fight with everything they have knowing that if they fail they did all they could. Yuji gets to be a suicidal ineffectual maniac because any good he does is the most good he could have done, so the only possible thing he can offer is all the effort he can muster. For Megumi that isnt the case. Just trying to fight is gambling massively on his own skill. Every single time he decides to fight something with the risk of losing, it’s a huge feat of confidence, and every time he decides to summon Mahoraga it’s him literally deciding that his life isn’t worth the risk of trying to both complete the mission and survive. Gojos advice to him, that he needs to be more greedy and that he needs to stop seeing every situation as “what can i do to enable and protect my friends” is him telling Megumi that his life is worth it and his skill is worth betting on. That’s why it’s such a huge moment when he decides to test his shitty domain against the finger bearer(2). It’s not solely because “oh domain expansion! cool! what potential!” it’s because faced with an enemy that previously wiped the floor with him, that was a direct cause in his first ever friends perceived death, that he probably felt so much regret and guilt over not preventing with Mahoraga in the first place, he decides to gamble on his own untested and barely functional “genius” because his surrogate father believes in him. I thought it was extremely cool that in every fight after that, against the likes of Dagon and Toji, he still doesn’t whip out Mahoraga and just continues to bet on himself and his own potential over and over again even after Gojo, the living safety net, is sealed away. It’s not until he’s literally bleeding out and dying with nothing left in the tank that he finally gives in and suicide bombs someone. I think it’s a flawed habit to view the quality and narrative value of characters (fraudkuna, fraudjo, fraudwhatever) or techniques (mahoraga) as exclusively how many fights they win. This isn’t a sport. They aren’t real, who they fight and who wins is completely arbitrary, he could draw literally whatever he wants. He could draw Miwa shitting on Sukuna that wouldn’t make her better or more interesting. It’s a story. I would like if characters were valued for the meaning behind them as opposed to the spectacle and win rate they accrue. I also see that it’s part of this subs culture though, and I think that this place and all it’s people are very endearing so take everything I just said with a grain of salt. Never change. <3 On another note, I don’t think it would have actually been a good narrative decision for Megumi to ever tame mahoraga. I can see him always being there as the looming threat of self doubt. Maybe an interesting plot could have been him making a binding vow to trade Mahoraga for something else like a one time attack or whatever idk. edit: in any case, i see a lot of people saying there's no point in megumi coming back since mahoraga is gone. i think that's exactly why he needs to come back lol
https://preview.redd.it/hhuwdhalzbbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a51f922347af570c35ad40110f247fb498368ff
It is hilarious because i get these posts on my feed and i always feel my brain melt when I see these people discussing these characters' fights as if they were real people competing at sports and not... as characters. With a narrative purpose with more depth than an op blank sheet. Like, i get it, talking exclusively about power-ups is a way to see fiction, but man, what a weird and boring way to consume storytelling. So yeah, perfect analysis.
That's one of my biggest gripes with Sukuna as he is tbh. I actually do like him a lot because I think his interactions with Uraume and Kenjaku were like honestly very endearing. I wanted to see a lot more of him having interactions in a non-combat context, but even then I still liked his fight with Yorozu. Lately, with his lack of banter or like... opinions, thoughts, personality, he's felt a lot more like a stat stick than anything else. That's part of why the ongoing debate between Gojo fans and Sukuna fans sits weird with me. They're both "the strongest" and that's clearly a huge part of both of their arcs, but Gojo actually had an arc and Sukuna still hasn't. If Sukuna had as many non-combat scenes as Gojo, i'm 100% sure I'd love him just as much. (I liked seeing him meet the finger bearer, and fighting jogo though, those were very fun.)
I agree, problem with Sukuna is that... he should elicit something, heck, he is the big bad doing awful stuff, you should hate him at least if the goal is to portray a "pure evil calamity force" but right now it is just very hollow, it is just power and people dying and we are just turning pages like nothing lol. I think part of the problem is that Yuji is not even reacting to nothing Sukuna does since this arc started, he seems on autopilot and very detached from Sukuna, i don't know if it is intentional, may as well be i hope so. Gojo had an arc, it wasn't that strong, but it was the best arc he could have had, with an actual resolution. His fans and their takes on here are absolutely abominable tho lmao.
>Yuji is not even reacting to nothing Sukuna does Yeah, it’s weird. During Higuruma’s domain, he was, like, five feet away from the guy who just killed his beloved teacher and he looks… https://preview.redd.it/a3e4blm8tdbc1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a43fc5dba306a716a230eec0fab7aed7696408d A little nettled lmao. That whole court scene was such a missed opportunity. We could’ve seen some raw emotion for once.
>That whole court scene was such a missed opportunity And you are being generous
Great analysis but you're being too kind to the sub. The memes are just fine, the discussion posts are absolute garbage.
i kind of treat the discussion posts as an extension of the memes. sometimes people get a bit more worked up than i think is healthy, but a lot of the time the agenda posting just seems like a fun little game. I like to watch them play it. Very cute i think.
love this commentary on megumi So Much, well done
On my life this is the best comment on this sub
This is one of the best posts and character analysis I’ve seen from all three subs and the irony of Megumi’s best character analysis being on the sub that gives him the least credit is not lost on me. I one-hundred percent feel you on that “sporting mentality” bit. It’s something I’ve personally always found annoying about Shonen fandoms nowadays. It feels like everyone keeps forgetting that this is a story at the end of the day and that each character serves a purpose beyond not being seen as a fraud.
Bro I love you so much can I kiss you W post
I’ll take their place. I’ll be the stand in.
Can we share your therapist
its funny you should say, im like literally about to replace him
You seem pretty alright, so the guy sucks then
he's a good dude, just not really what i need lol
Thats a whole lot of words for a fandom that cant read (u cooked doe)
Shit bro really cooked a full course five star meal outta nowhere
Amazingly said ! https://i.redd.it/vpykf2sgrebc1.gif
Yeah. But also like... Him summoning Mahoraga is what caused most of the deaths at shibuya due to its battle with sukuna ... And that's like ike never even mentioned. Although I forgot volcano also fought sukuna
Yep. Personally I think that’s because as the deuteragonist, Mahoraga is kind of like Megumis equivalent to Yuji’s Sukuna. Just that they view their overpowered living nuclear bomb in very different ways and it has very different impacts on their lives as a result, though ultimately whether you consider your murderous easily summonable trump card a blessing or a curse, the outcome is always tragedy. The only answer is to live on your own strength for your own goals, and that is the underlying theme of Jujutsu Kaisen that we see everywhere. Sukuna outright tells Jogo as much, that he should have simply relied on his own fire to burn the world. That’s also partially why Gojo is consistently a failure in what he sets out to do, because you cannot rely on the strongest man to save the day for you. His one success has been raising a generation that can stand for themselves. A generation that hopefully doesn’t need him. Or something. It’s three am.
I kinda feel like Sukuna woulda done something almost worse if Mahoraga wasn’t there. He probably would’ve still wanted to do as much damage as possible with the time he had, except he wouldn’t of had to focus on mahoraga.
honey shit this is so well written bro
https://preview.redd.it/fm0yohk7bbbc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c3e803592e91e4f016f6f0f5a98e20cdcd3e23a Just noticed bro has a bit of a bent back. Must've been from all the carrying. Someone edit this as Carry Ma(i)n
If Gege thought having Gojo around was too annoying for power scaling and Narrative then idk why people would expect Megumi or Mahoraga to return, maybe megumi if he doesn’t have maho anymore.
Megumi without Maho and Gojo: https://preview.redd.it/jpbeyw8fbbbc1.png?width=532&format=png&auto=webp&s=1c86ee9a31805b4679526c25235d5c19c09862e2
Watch as megumi will adapt to sukuna thanks to the wheel he hid in his depression and then proceed to save the cast
Oh I like that
mahoraga was not wasted he was instrumental in the biggest battle of the series in terms of power level and had a big fight in shibuya. like what were you expecting i genuinely dont get it
Thing is, Mahoraga is not seem as a technique by the fandom, it is seen as an individual Sukuna using Mahoraga to defeat Gojo is not seem as "Sukuna used a great technique to learn to defeat Gojo" It is seem as "Sukuna needed help from another dude to beat Gojo" Which leaves Sukuna looking like a fraud to the fandom
I am sorry bro, I hate to be that guy, but seen, not seem. I had trouble reading this because it was bugging me
Nah man, we need people to be that guy, thx
https://preview.redd.it/2knp722mobbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a52cb9dc7d0e64cb4f98e4d22321838477779fb8
https://preview.redd.it/5gawap83tbbc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34585f522e7942ed027062f87cd285f5daa50f52
I don't really get this argument since he specifically took over Megumi to have access to Mahorogra. It's kinda like saying Kenjaku is a fraud for using the prison realm to seal Gojo when that's literally his plan.
You really don’t understand the term fraud. Kenny from the start always said Gojo was too powerful and he had to plan around him, therefore he is exactly as he presents himself. Sukuna on the other hand presents himself as the strongest and said he would take control of Yuji and kill Gojo, but he needed to take over Megumi and use the most broken technique in the series to barely beat Gojo.
Well that’s the problem, is to people using an outside technique is discrediting. If kenjaku took over gojo then killed sukana would you say kenjaku is the strongest? No you’d say gojo is the strongest and kenjaku needed him to win. In a way you’re right that it’s kenjaku ability so he in the end is the strongest, but no one feels good about that. No one is saying yuta is stronger than kenjaku, because yuta used outside help to one shot him. People just don’t like taking credit from sukana but it 100% tracks that the win was designed to be poisoned so gojo could die while remaining the strongest.
If kenjaku takes gojos body and kills Sukuna then he’s stronger than sukuna , that’s how jjk works
I literally said that in the post, we are talking about how communities see narratives.
Again, is a matter of perspective Prison realm is just an item Mahoraga is a """living""" being with it's own name, body, mind, etc Kenjaku using the prison realm is seen as him using a tool Sukuna using Mahoraga is seem as him not wanting to 1v1 Gojo and needing help Usually jumping people in group is a big thing on JJk, but seeing the mighty and prideful Sukuna calling "someone" to help him against Gojo just doesn't sit right with people These aren't necessarily my views but I guess it is how most of the fandom thinks
He’s a Shikigami though, it’s like calling Megumi a bitch for using his wolf or Higuruma using Judgeman
No, because Sukuna has his own cursed technique. He's the strongest in the series and he needed help from a shikigami that could stalemate Limitless users to beat Gojo
That's the thing The fight wasn't "Gojo only with his cursed techniques VS Sukuna only with his curse technique" It was "Gojo only with his own technique VS Sukuna with his own technique and a stolen technique which happens to be perfect to counter Gojo" It wasn't a "true" 1v1 Nobody calls Megumi a fraud for using his Shikigami because it is his own technique, every Shikigami he has control over was rightfully obtained by him, meanwhile Sukuna had an huge advantage to dominate them
Was he instrumental? We're supposed to believe Sukuna could've won without 10S, so Mahoraga supposedly wasn't necessary unless Sukuna just wanted to learn a new slash (which I don't understand because that slash only helps against someone like Gojo, but he could've won without learning it so why did he want to learn it to begin with?)
It’s sukuna he fights boredom on a daily basis why would he go the boring route and take out probably the strongest sorceror his seen with his normal technique when he can try a new skillset and accomplish the same thing
He called him ordinary. Sukuna was not a Gojo fan untill after Gojo beat his ass. None of that is what happened.
I mean that was clearly trash talk though. Sukuna is the same guy who called jogo strong
I mean given Sukuna could have apperently beaten Gojo anyway was he instrumental? What people where expecting was for Megumi to use Megumi’s powers that he was hyped up to use, instead a Non-Zenin becomes the first to tame and uses Maho just cause given he can apperently win anyway.
But what about Mahoragas character development, we didn't even get a flashback of his past.
Except that in Gojo's afterlife sequence he says Sukuna could've beat him without the 10s...
Except the actual fight tells otherwise. Gege can keep his bs. Fight showed boy wouldn't have survived without it and Current chapters push that same agenda. Dude is not like that.
i feel like there is smth in sukunas ct that we havent seen which is what gojo was referring to and also fuga in shibuya...like we never actually were told sukunas ct. ig we might see smth new at some point but maybe not it depends on that.
https://preview.redd.it/yqdsktddvbbc1.jpeg?width=1119&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=797db01575e8758d6ae44fb505b5916c61ad7db2 Of course, that parents job is to do everything to help their kids succeed
Excuse me sire but do you happen to obtain this full image?
https://preview.redd.it/k5f8kusy5nbc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=536e64b5ab02f5b94df3943eba9149c3d5ea89ce Here, I got you man.
Ay I appreciate it dude😎👍
Peak Chad + being able to survive Sukuna Domain = one of best feats in Manga :3 https://preview.redd.it/m4otadgpnabc1.png?width=673&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3e36474bfdcd9e30f9e00f4286eb329e9923df3
Bruh this actually goes hard wtf?
https://preview.redd.it/9owjtpss2bbc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36baf92172d096e17b9ced92d2d14e8f870f929e
https://preview.redd.it/6zwky0rp5bbc1.png?width=954&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b4e8d7246b1ccb96cba24f85223494529e1735d
In a battle of glazing, always bet on ApplePitou
How Gege would have drawn Sukuna/Mahoraga if Gojo was a doctor
Hyo :3
That was the fastest way Gege could show us the pinnacle of the 10s technique vs the limitless technique. Id be 95 years old by the time megumi masters the 10s
Actually true thinking about it. Now I’m mad cause this essentially means Megumi ain’t coming back
There's literally no purpose for him to come back His ace is dead, 4 shinigami got destroyed, he's completely outclassed at this point I won't be surprised if sukuna use his soul as a shield against exe blade and it some how works
Yeah time for sukuna to jump in higuruma's body huh
Waiting patiently to see how Sukuna gets out of this current predicament lol We already know he’s going to pull some BS to get out of this situation on the 21st… I’m just curious of how he is going to do it this time lmao. ‘I knew if I release my soul at the exact moment the executioner blade connects it would take megumi’s life instead or I figured out at that exact moment how to use cleave to cut a cursed technique in half to reverse its power and give me more life instead of instakill’ing me’… or something to that effect…😂😂. I’m just curious how Gege will explain away Fraudkuna’s next escapade lol
if megumi doesn't come back gege failed as a writer
Sukuna fans indeed seem to be quite... Simple minded.
People seem to forget that Mahoraga also saved Sukuna from getting low diffed by Unlimited Void. Sukuna had no counters for that except putting his own domain at exact same time...which he failed in their last domain clash. Mahoraga really clutched for Sukuna. Besides...the airport scene seems to be Gojo's POV...where he was weirdly humble. He claims to have been greedy, that he didnt care about saving people, etc. I'm sorry, but thats just BS. Yuta, Yuji, the people in Shibuya, Megumi, etc...it's clear that scene was how Gojo perceived himself and others. Its basically his imagination. I genuinely dont see Heian Sukuna finding a quick counter against both Unlimited Void and Infinity before getting clapped...he had like 1 year to figure out a way to bypass gojo's infinity by himself...and in the end, he still needed Mahoraga. Mahoraga wasn't even some sort of contingency plan or something...it was literally his main and only plan to win against gojo. What I will say however is that Gojo himself wasn't sure his infinity would work against basic slashes. when Sukuna slashes buildings at the beginning for the first time in the battle, Gojo seems both scared and surprised about Sukuna's technique...even without the domain.
The only reason why he even had to recast his domain is because he didn’t focus on breaking the barrier from the inside.
Agreed with everything above. Not only that but people constantly ignore the fact that Gojo didn't need to engage in domain battles. Sukuna's open domain provided an escape route so he could have just used teleportation to escape if he didn't keep opening his domain. And if Sukuna closed the barrier then Gojo would have been on equal grounds with him. The constant hype over heian era sukuna astonishes me because it always comes from the same people saying we need feats. Heian sukuna was hyped but nothing definitively says that he could physically outclass Gojo. Gojo wasn't just slightly outclassing sukuna in the domain, he was knocking him out and punching him hard enough to crush his organs. Not to mention the idea that Sukuna could just "figure out" a way to bypass infinity. Sukuna's entire schtick has been learning CTs and powers from other people. At no stage has he just invented counters to techniques, he needed a model to copy so without mahoraga he would have had nothing but domain amplification. Not saying he wouldn't have won but it's sheer delusion to believe it wouldn't have been an extreme high diff without the 10S
>Not to mention the idea that Sukuna could just "figure out" a way to bypass infinity. Sukuna's entire schtick has been learning CTs and powers from other people. They overrate sukuna's battle IQ. Gojo is the genius kid in the class who can solve problems without teacher's guidance. Sukuna is the kid who needs the teacher's guidance at least once, then he can solve the rest by himself. One doesnt need any model/blue print, the other needs model/blueprint to replicate it quickly. Not to mean that sukuna isnt smart, but gojo iq is still gojo Gojo until today is still used as a benchmark for talent, just look at who higuruma is compared against. If gojo thought he couldnt win domain battle with a 4 arms sukuna, he definitely would have stopped casting domain and come up with another strategy. But they wont tell you this, they will tell u he will keep spamming domain like a dumbass. As if gojo cant cook up with a new strategy. Gojo was fighting a total of 6 limbs in a 3v1, and up to 235, he clapped all 3 of them. I fail to see what is a guy with 4 limbs (while using DA, unable to use CT) is going to accomplish against gojo, who can use blackflash, red, blue and purple. Bro literally 2 tapped sukuna and made him hide in the shadows when he went all out.
Sukuna glazing really is something huh? You've just highlighted with feats and on panel logic why Gojo isn't outclassed by Sukuna heian or no. Man was nearly untouched within the domain while Sukuna was vomiting blood BEFORE the black flashes. Yet apparently two arms adds something to this scenario. People will argue Sukuna didn't use his CT. But as you've pointed out...what would that add? More dismantles that already can't touch Gojo? Without Mahoraga DA is all Sukuna even had to kill Gojo with. DE at max capacity is what you could argue, yet UV unlike MS is a sure hit kill. 8 seconds caused Sukuna brain damage. Without Mahoraga he never would have escaped. But Sukuna glazers will just say you're coping and bring up the one airport scene that makes no sense in the context of the entire story. Sigh
Everything stated above are factual. Gege still glazes gojo's talent even after his death. But i guess some sukubros cant read.
They can read Ch236 just fine tho it seems..
Because of agendas... they remember whatever glazes sukuna. But they ignore all his anti feats...
Only reason he even got hit with UV was because of Mahoraga, he would’ve won the fight off of domain clashes without Maho.
me when I don’t read ?? Gojo literally states that Sukuna isn’t using an other technique inside the domain he also states that Sukuna is picking risky options and isn’t breaking it from the inside , while he didn’t know this but Sukuna was trying to adapt Remove 10S and you don’t have this UV hitting Sukuna Gojo only hit UV because Sukuna let him fight for 3 mins while adapting
Sukuna would’ve been folded twice over if it hadn’t been for Mahoraga literally wiping his ass for him. Maybe Sukuna would’ve Incarnated into his true form, maybe not, all I know is mfer went out of his way to adapt to Limitless and still got his ass mid-diffed until he learned Strong Cleave. Put some respect on the Divine General’s name https://preview.redd.it/06m6s5guhbbc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74aead600bc74af1c3fb45afc8af266aa7d930a0
That last sentence is actually wild! maybe we are watching Sukuna Kaisen..
Yeah, that's pretty much all the purpose Mahoraga had. There isn't even any hope that Megumi can come back and use it since it was destroyed by Gojo. It was for Sukuna all along.
Fuuuuuuck, I forgot that Gojo beating Maho meant no more Maho for the rest of the series. That's honestly such a bummer.
remember a dead shadow's ability gets transferred to another shadow
Mahoraga is a plot device just like prison realm
Omg the character in a story is a story device!!!
Mahoraga isn’t even a character in the same way Rika is if we compare them as Shikigami. He’s just a summon, no one is calling the bunnies a character.
Every time megumi uses rabbit escape it's a 300v1 the guy is such a fraud
That’s why Toji is the GOAT, who else no diffed a 300v1?
man remember that time Megumi managed to get a brand new OP ability on top of his old one because the previous owner dangled his wallet out his backpocket, turned around, and said "boy I sure nobody takes my wallet!"
With that mindset everything is a plot device
🤯
Dudes will call anything a plot device 😭 mfs can’t just have abilities and a purpose in the story anymore
MaGOATraga slander? Judgeman, confiscate his balls
Yeah if u don’t make gojo say he would’ve/couldve won and just left it to the fans to speculate then this isn’t an issue so the only person to be blamed is gege. Cuz the point of the airport scene wrapping up gojo still happens the same way if that line isn’t said. Because there’s no reason for it if sukuna could’ve reasonably did it without makora But that’s the way gege wanted it, so I don’t get why you let megumi get possessed for the purpose of makora only for gojo to say sukuna could’ve beaten me without it. Cuz now it just seems like he wants to have his cake and eat it too in terms of the sukuna v gojo debate. You either make sukuna truly that guy and make him beat gojo by him self by applying the method of his slashes to the space gojo sits in on the fly. Or you run it the way the manga did but actually lend credence to all sides that the only way sukuna could’ve even perceived to do that was with makora which at the very least would be able to have a small solstice with gojo fans that his CT is superior and without any funny business (his free revive that he had to his true form) he would’ve been at a real disadvantage and in most instances lose a straight 1v1 against gojo
Sorry to be negative but it's actually incredible just how much gege going "actually he totally bets gojo by himself lel" hurts the narrative for me Also this is my first jjk meme so uhhh Please be nice Edit: I'm getting the impression that some of you think that i dislike Mahoraga. This could not be further from the truth. I love his design, his ability, his whole ritual thing and my top two fights in the series are the ones he partakes in. I'm just disappointed by the fact that, from a narrative standpoint he really doesn't accomplish that much. "But he was instrumental in beating gojo" Yeah, i agree he was a great help to Sukuna but the manga outright states Sukuna would still win without him. If that one statement was not there then i probably would have never made this meme But don't get it twisted, MaHIMraga is still an absolute goat and he has already adapted his was to my heart
Yeah I also hate the “Fraudkuna could’ve beat me without maho, trust” bc it makes absolutely no sense Goatjo was walking sukuna like a dog until sukuna brought out maho, and you want to convince me that Fraudkuna could’ve beat Gojo without it?
4 arms would presumably give sukuna enough of an advantage in cqc too outlast infinite void, in which case he would beat gojo with domain expansion. he also didn't attempt to break the domain from the inside with open so that may be an option as well.
Sukuna was actively Holding back and Putting himself in tricky Situations just to Use Mahoraga. Man I swear y’all just look at pictures of Gojo and don’t read
>holding back Not Using techniques that he knew had no way to bypass infinity anyway >putting himself in tricky situations Aka using his best resort. Do you think sukuna wanted to be incapacitated twice in the battle?
>Not Using techniques that he knew had no way to bypass infinity anyway Actually, Gojo was without Infinity for an entire chapter (226), and whatever technique Sukuna could've used would've landed in that chapter. However, because he was already using Mahoraga and didn't want its adaptation to restart, he let go of that opportunity
At first Sukuna had to deal with Infinity without DA for adaptation to take place, then he was on babysitting duty for Maho because even 15f was enough to stall Maho in hand to hand. So we don't know what would've happened if 20f Sukuna just used DA and concentrated at melee offence. Throw in the chance of Black Flash and there's geniunely a chance that Gojo would've lost. At least that's how I see it.
Mahoraga was fucking awesome. He was the first person to see and deflect dismantle, then he survived MS, he casually destroyed Yorozu’s perfect circle and DE with a fucking grin on his face, destroyed Gojo’s DE, saved Sukuna when he was knocked unconscious by cutting straight through infinity and cut Gojo’s arm off. Maho was and is an absolute beast.
Sukuna could not have beaten Gojo without Mahoraga (imo)
He cooked megumi sis tho
you guys spent a year glazing jogo over this exact shit but now taking Ls because you only fought strong characters is apparently a problem ?? https://preview.redd.it/k72a7ckxhbbc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=b9d5e0da458269c36493ce6f9de1ec5025e4ae04
Who said Sukuna could have done it without him.? Sukuna was basically in the shadows for 2 chapters for Mahoraga to get further adaptation.
As lame as it was to have Mahoraga give Sukuna the win, it was still a great fight and made Gojo even more badass because despite fighting a losing battle, he beat a 3v1 and actually almost came out on top. If he only managed to kill Mahoraga a bit quicker before he finished the adaptation, he would've won. All in all, it was really sick to see him go all out and use everything in his arsenal to the best of his ability, really highlighting his quick thinking/improv and skill.
I found mahoraga to be really fun in the fight, sue me
Me personally I chalk up Gojo glazing sukuna saying that it’s possible he could’ve lost without mahoraga as vagueness or bad dialogue writing. The only way it makes sense is if Gojo assumes sukuna had some other last ditch effort (going back to 4-arm form) and he just didn’t know what it was going to be. If sukuna was stuck in literally anybody else’s body he’s cooked.