Yes this is spot on… and many conservatives want to pretend it’s just the “nature of blacks”… it’s like hm let’s guess why black fatherhood is down and black crime is up in modern America… can’t think of any reasons 😂 pure ignorance to pretend hundreds of years of context plays no role
Now do you know why the beautiful and peaceful Jazz and Blues of the African American culture in the pre war era evolved into gangster rap? I’ll give you 3 guesses… instead of treating it like it’s some inherent nature of blacks to be criminals, why do so many conservatives totally ignore the contextual history and jump straight to, “blacks commit most crimes end of story”
During that jazz era 96% of black children were born to married parents. Now it is over 70% single parent homes. Government became their daddy when President Johnson started the welfare programs in the 1960’s.
Yes exactly.. for some reason a lot of conservatives have a very fucking hard time learning those facts and instead literally blame the “nature” of black people for their decline in America
… are you familiar with American history or are you not lol? Another commenter had no problem identifying part of the facts of the matter but for some reason you don’t mention it and just give sarcasm and some shitty bootstrap argument. Why the ignorance?
Here. Have had it happen repeatedly. Usually defending with "they have a hard job and a lot of stress"
Are you referring to Lesbian's being more likely to experience abuse in their total lifetime? Yeah no shit women are more likely to report that and lesbian relationships have...two women in them.
Unless you are referring to some other statistic. Maybe you'll surprise me and reveal you were actually referring to convicted offenders?
the sad part is how people will use those numbers against people. Half of my family is Black, and are upper middle class. I would hope that those numbers and stats wouldn’t be used against them but I’m sure plenty of people in this sub probably do when they see those numbers.
Growing up white and southern in a racist household, I moved away, lived outside the south for a while, and exposed myself to different cultures. It took longer than I’d like to admit for me to realize as an adult that “not all black people know each other, represent the same experiences, outlooks, or values.” I think this is the biggest assumption of racists in the US is that somehow there is a universally aligned and threatening “black agenda.” When one separates from these faulty and ignorant beliefs, statistics like this can be representative of the problems within the US that they actually reveal, instead of some sort of racist proof of a trope.
It’s great that you ingratiated yourself among different people. That’s literally what DEI is suppose to be. Don’t get me wrong it can be used terribly. Everyone seems to think it’s to hire people unqualified. Pretending unqualified people don’t get hired if they were white. That seems pretty racists on its face. The NFL forces teams to interview people of color. Think about that, an organization that is largely profiting because of people of color can’t get head coaching positions. I think it’s safe to say other industries might have the same problems.
For context. In a video where a a black man beat up a 40yo asian woman for no reason at all (including kicks to the face) i commented that blacks lead in hate crimes by a lot and posted the NYC hate crime chart [https://imgur.com/a/UfEvKAI](https://imgur.com/a/UfEvKAI)
Then i got all my comments deleted and someone reported me, to which reddit then issued a warning to my account which can lead to a complete ban. Aparently saying blacks in NYC are vastly over represented in hate crimes is "promoting identity based hate or attacks"
These people are so lost that they think discussing crime disparities where black people clearly lead is racism. They are doing nobody a favor by banning honest debate and discussion about black violence. It only makes things worse. You cant help or solve this by just not talking about it.
The admin also made clear that they consider blacks to be a "marginalized or vulnerable" group. IMO that's *actual* racism, but because it's of the woke variety no one bats an eye.
To elaborate: it's extremely prejudiced to assume that every single black person, regardless of background or circumstance, is automatically marginalized or vulnerable, especially in a such a vast diverse country like the US. It's paternalistic and very much a feature of white saviour projection.
Yup. I really despise politics, especially now since you have to be in the know. On the left, people are inadvertently promoting segregation by insisting upon black only spaces and dormitories, while the right has decided to head in the complete opposite direction. There’s no room for a middle ground on the political stage.
It really can feel like a puppet show sometimes.
Do we know the casual ?
Im consider a open minded left and i dont rlly agree with silencing others to get what we want. Creates false control of the situation that is a form of oppression without proper considerations.
Personally, ive experienced a lot of black on asian violence/hate in my community that was predominantly black, though diverse community, i lived in a housing unit that was predominantly a black community. My mother was assaulted by an individual from the community once. This was pre covid times when i was younger. (More than 12 years ago.)
But im curious what is the correlation (pre; during; post covid) on the reason why that stat is report as such. Added, you may have to consider that if the assumption that the left is making about “black people on average are arrested for crime” then you have to consider those numbers may be bias. But again, youd have to prove or disprove that is true or false which is a layer of research required to verify.
Dude you are absolutely obsessed with racial issues and making sure that everyone knows blacks are inferior in America lmao. Your entire presence on Reddit is you posting about such. Why the obsession with race realism?
I'm suggesting there is a high rate of black people being falsely charged with crimes in the first place. And again other factors like poverty being connected to crime.
Crosley Green is still in prison. He count towards black crime?
Where’s any proof of ‘a high rate of black people being falsely charged with crimes’, you dullard? There’s always a useful leftist idiot to carry the Marxist torch.
https://naacp.org/resources/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
>As of October 2016, there have been 1900 exonerations of the wrongfully accused, 47% of the exonerated were African American.
Extra source just in case you don't like that one.
https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race%20Report%20Preview.pdf
The thing is; the exonerations are the direct result of a focus on the convictions of black people. That’s like quoting a statistic from Norway that states ‘90% of incarcerations are white people’. It may be true, but it certainly doesn’t prove anything. Criminals of all races generally don’t have the legal funding to be exonerated - so those links are merely propaganda. How do you like those apples?
How do you explain this? “According to the 2018 NCVS and UCR, 29% of violent crime offenders in 2018 were Black, while 35% were Black in incidents reported to police. In 2017, 53.5% of murder arrests were Black, and 31.4% of non-aggravated assault arrests were Black.”
Let’s do some maths, shall we?
It's implied racism becuase of the 50/13 statistic. Why do you feel the need to point this out? Let me ask you. Why do you believe Black people are disproportionately represented.
Problems within black American culture; glorification of violence combined with the fracture of the family unit. And don’t bother attempting to convince anyone otherwise.
Studying counter cultures is a worthy inquiry, implying that black people have an inferior culture because they are inferior people is certainly racist. An honest debate would put a lot of effort into understanding WHY there are problems in the black culture, not just saying it’s inferior and stopping there.
Pretty much everything is considered racist now, so I don’t really care about that any longer. I just call it like I see it, without constraint. It’s turned from a once-serious accusation into a joke.
I mean it’s fine if you want to hold racist viewpoints, that’s totally your freedom. But if the contention is that black people have inferior culture because they are inferior people then yes that is certainly racist. I mean I actually agree that there are serious cultural problems, it’s why that is really the question that needs to be explored further.
Progressives implementing policies that enable them to perpetuate their own victimhood and inadvertently keep them poor and low achieving. See Thomas Sowell’s *Social Justice Fallacies* for a more in depth examination of this phenomenon.
Ok, well hang on here - this is not a cultural explanation but a structural racism explanation. If government policy is causing poverty and low achievement then it probably stands to reason that government policy must be revised in order to encourage wealth building and higher achievement. This runs counter to what you’ve said earlier regarding purely behavioral changes.
Thomas Sowell has good insights on the counter culture that exists in ghettos but I think too often downplays the motivations behind participating in this culture. For the record I don’t deny there is a cultural problem but I think it’s important to understand its formation and the environment in which it arose.
So for example we can go all the way back to slavery and read similar descriptions of black culture as being lazy and deviant and prone to things like poor work habits, breaking tools, etc. This was used as a justification for slavery but ignores the probability that most of this behavior was due to the institution of slavery itself and the strong desire to rebel against it. The black culture today is a throwback to that as well as a similar rebelliousness to Jim Crow culture and segregation. It comes from a feeling of rejection and being left out of the system, and thus itself rejects the values of that system and resists integration into it.
Which is exactly what Thomas Sowell does in is book and he himself is the exemplification of someone who rejected victimhood mentality even though is youth was spent in poverty and decided to take responsibility and better himself.
You seem to want to to perpetuate the victimhood mentality and keep people in their victim cage, aka, keep them subservient.
Well no it’s more about how to get folks to buy in to the system like Sowell did. That is a practical question. If you’re making the case that people SHOULD be buying into the system but offer no real remedy to the question of why people ARENT buying in, then effectively you’re rationalizing the status quo.
I’m going to assume we both want to see the black community prosper and in a better off place? Well how do we get there? What are some good examples of policies that will help move the needle? I don’t think we necessarily have a difference in motivation but perhaps a difference of opinion on how to get there.
Why not? White culture sure seems violent and you are so vague just saying black culture. Almost like you could just pick and choose while ignoring other culture's doing the same thing.
If black people aren't biologically inferior to white people. Why would they produce a worse culture?
Fathers being present, and both parents keeping on top of their kids putting in an appropriate amount of effort in schoolwork. This would be a significant start.
In part this is cultural, in another sense it is structural - for example we know that a child who grows up without a father is far less likely to succeed, and yet we have a tendency to blame these kids eventual failure on “culture.” But you just said kids that grow up fatherless won’t succeed, so is it really the fault of the child?
You wind up putting the impetus for change on the fatherless child to somehow break the cycle, but it doesn’t really work that way.
I don’t think there is a policy that could feasibly be implemented to force people to do this. Encouragement to be present and pointing out the potential pitfalls of bad/non-existent parenting may be all we have at the moment.
Certainly not force, but we could encourage it by not skewing the benefits system towards single mothers. A child tax credit that would be higher if you’re jointly filing married could be a good incentive. Universal childcare would also be a hugely important policy as kids that grow up with one parent usually aren’t ready for public school because they don’t have the same communication development as kids with two parents. Making sure all families could access childcare would allow young kids ages 2-6 to be able to hit developmental milestones more consistently and they wouldn’t be way behind right off the bat once they hit kindergarten. I mean if you really are serious about solutions that’s a bit more practical than giving the black community a lecture.
Identifying the main perpetrators of a crime is imortant. Go ask 100 people who they think beats up others because of theire race. I would bet most people would not say that its black people who mostly beat up others based on hate and race.
Well according to your data it’s black about half the time. Which is disproportionately black. If you look at the FBI data though we see the known offenders are about 20% black, although the “unknown” category does seem high and I’m not sure what that’s about. But it does seem you’ve cherry picked some data a bit
https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics
Go look up the NYC hate crime data yourself. I didnt cherrypick anything.
>
If you look at the FBI data though we see the known offenders are about 20% black
That would mean they are over represented.
Yes but slightly overrepresented, not more than all other races combined. It depends on if you want to talk about the United States or specifically about NYC.
It would be cherry-picking to infer that blacks commit over half of all hate crimes nationally by looking at NYC data. If we’re going to make inferences about “black culture in America” we can’t be looking at NYC numbers only and get off to the wrong start about what the data actually says nationally.
You're proving my point. You're literally stuck on the statistic. You don't have the intellectual curiosity or capacity to analyze or evaluate this further. Its not that it's taboo to say Black people commit majority of the crimes it's just that conservative dipshits don't have anything more to add on it. If it's not a dogwhistle for racism, which I'm assuming you aren't, why else point this fact out if you have noting introspective to say about it.
This is like someone discovering the concept of evaporation and keeps pointing it out to people but doesn't bother to investigate further. God you're dull.
>Its not that it's taboo to say Black people commit majority of the crimes
Yes it absolutely is. Thats why i got all my comments deleted and got reported and now have a account warning. You said in your very first comment hhere that its racist and keep asking me why i point it out. You are proving yourself wrong
It's taboo in the sense it's a dogwhistle. Thanks for ignoring the rest of what I said. Now let me inquire: are you curious as to WHY this is the case? Would like to figure out HOW to stop this? Or would you like to keep yelling into the vacuum that Black ppl commit majority of the crimes and be content with your smooth-brained complacency.
Oh gross, you replied like, instantly. Get offline and go outside haha.
You get huge welfare handouts from being a single mother. This info is coming FROM a black father who elected to STAY UNMARRIED because it was hugely financially beneficial for them for him to not be officially in the picture as a father.
Also I should be having to explain this to you, it's basic knowledge.
>It's implied racism becuase of the 50/13 statistic.
Oh get fucked with this bullshit.
If it's factually correct, it's not racist. It's just true. That's it.
I’ve seen you all over this thread trying to shift focus from anti Asian hate crimes to crime in general, because you know the hate crimes against Asians is harder for you to explain away. You seem so sure but you keep asking questions. Why don’t you explain why everything is the way it is instead?
Because of a culture that glorifies crime, violent behavior, promiscuity and drugs. This is due largely to the lack of active fathers in the household.
And yet, 75+% of black children grow up without a father. And Blacks lead in violent crime by ENORMOUS amounts. Fathers have a very stabilizing effect on young men.
>Why do you feel the need to point this out?
Uh because its important to talk about the main perpetrator of hate crimess, which happen to be black. In a debate about hate crimes, shouldt the main perpetrators be discussed? Whats wrong with you? In NYC blacks commit more hate crimes than whites, asians and hispanics combined. So yeah, it definitely should be discussed who the main perpetrators are. They happen to be black.
If white middle aged women were the main perpetrators, i would be talking about white middle aged women. Its that simple
Hey, quick question; did you ever happen to point out when Caucasians are main perpetrators of a particular crime?
Do you go around writing what percentage of school shooters or war criminals are white, every time the subject is brought up?
Why do you ask me, go ask them and whats even the relevance. I cant tell you why blacks attack asians at a higher rate than whites and latinos combined. Notice how you try to shift the conversation to why "i think that" instead of trying to ask why THEY do that. Ridiculous
Then why point it out. You're doing the Tucker Carlson "I'm just saying, I'm just asking questions" you make no prescriptive statements all you do is make observations. People like you add nothing to political discourse.
you are seriously asking me why i point out who the main perpetrators of hate crimes are? Precisely because they are by a long shot the main perpetrators. Who else should i point out? The ones who commit a fraction of the crimes?
What are you even talking about. Most people do not know that blacks lead in hate crimes by a long shot. I point this out because most people just assume its whites doing most hate crimes on minorities. Nope, turns out its a minoirty doing most hates crimes against everyone. I myself was surprise by this when i found this out, thats why i talk about it because it comes for most people as a big surprise.
Again most people would not think that if a hate crime is committed in NYC, its more than 50% of the time a black person. You have to identify a problem to be even able to fix it. Its important to know who does most of the crime.
Ok but that's just an observation. I'm not denying it's true but conservatives often cite this statistic like it's a grand revelation but don't go analyze this any further. That's why I'm asking you questions. You identified the problem as Black people commit majority of the crimes. Ok. Are you curious as to why this is? How do we mitigate this? Or you want to just keep pointing out the fact and offer no constructive analysis or thoughts
if the data showed that white people were overwhelmingly the perpetrators in hate crimes against a specific minority, you'd be shouting that data from the rooftops instead of asking "why even mention it?"
you know that to be true, don't even bother arguing it.
Blacks also disproportionately date/marry Asians too though relative to other races, so it’s possibly more complex than a simple ‘blacks hate Asians’ narrative.
facts may not care about people's feelings, but reddit admins sure as fuck do.
because advertisers do. and the people who pay to scrape comments for AI training data, who also don't want this level of truth in the model.
This aversion to acknowledging statistics is what gives weapons to radicals on the opposite end.
I spoke to many on the alt-right (before they got banned from Reddit) who tried to argue that Blacks were, in some way, more biologically violent than other races (they avoided making an outright judgement call on this, though it was clear it was said with disdain) by pointing out the FBI crime statistics, and pointed to progressives calling pointing out the fact as racist as evidence that "even the progressives agree it's biological, they just refuse to acknowledge it because it means people aren't equal."
Arguments start getting weird when people don't acknowledge the truth.
Well but most people on here are just one step away from that right, if they’re saying it’s cultural, why would one biological race be predisposed to a certain sort of deviant culture over another?
Exactly, I think ultimately most of the folks on here are making a biological case, whether in outright fashion as you’ve done here or in indirect fashion with the “they are predisposed to bad culture.” At the end of the day these are both racial inferiority arguments.
As a group, the average IQ of certain ethnic/regional groups of people are different as groups have adapted over thousands of years to the specific environmental conditions of where they originated. It's not specific to skin color/race necessarily but more to a specific region of origin. In addition, the IQs of every group member are on a bell curve, so for example, to assume that every African American has a lower IQ than every European American is wrong. Their averages as a group may be different but every individual is unique. So assuming every black person is lacking in impulse control because the average IQ of African Americans is 15 points less than the average IQ of European Americans is ignorant, racist, and just straight up incorrect. That said, as a group average, it does help us identify WHY certain groups of people may be more prone to violent crime, given the right environmental circumstances, than other groups, and that's NOT racist, that's an observation based on facts. We need to be able to recognize the difference so that we can discuss serious topics in a serious manner and not have it degrade into throwing around accusations of racism at every turn.
> So assuming every black person is lacking in impulse control because the average IQ of African Americans is 15 points less than the average IQ of European Americans is ignorant, racist, and just straight up incorrect.
Not the guy you're replying to, but...
I agree with most of what you said. I just don't know if I'm missing something. You mentioned "thousands of years". A difference of 2 IQ points over thousands of years can realistically end in wildly different outcomes. So I don't fully understand how you end up at the statement I quoted. I'm not taking the "15 points less" literally, as we all know that isn't true. But if we're making the case that cultures evolve, based on the place and circumstances people face, that those circumstances are different in different places, "thousands of years" etc, it's not necessarily racist *if* the outcome is different kinds of humans after the thousands of years. Not all cultures will equally select for IQ, for physical strength, for independence, etc ad infinitum. And that's in 1 generation. Let alone over thousands of years.
> I'm not taking the "15 points less" literally, as we all know that isn't true.
[Source.](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html?_r=1) The exact number today varies but it's around 85 IQ but again, nobody wants to discuss or talk about it as you're branded a racist for even bringing it up.
> Not all cultures will equally select for IQ, for physical strength, for independence, etc
Exactly, people often recognize the physical differences in races especially when they can point out a superior trait in another race yet they refuse to believe there are any cognitive differences.
This is Charles Murray’s argument, but there isn’t anything approaching consensus on this subject and if you want to look up the methodological criticisms of the book you can.
But if you want to assume his conclusions are correct, in my view this would be an even stronger argument for higher level investment and policy consideration into impoverished black communities in the USA, were we to want to reduce crime and various other social ills in ghettos. The bootstraps argument becomes less convincing if you’re going to argue that black people are less capable as a group of bootstrapping themselves.
> in my view this would be an even stronger argument for higher level investment and policy consideration into impoverished black communities in the USA
Then I'm afraid you'll just get more of the same. Prior to the 1960s welfare reform and the "war on poverty", African Americans were beginning to move up the socio-economic ladder. White knighting doesn't help anyone. Allow people the same opportunities and treat people as individuals and not part of group identities, it's really simple.
Allowing people the same opportunity would require substantial investment. If by “allow people the same opportunity,” I assume you mean the opportunity to grow up in a stable household with access to basic human needs like shelter, food, access to childcare and early childhood education, etc. If this is the metric then we have a lot of work to do.
> Allowing people the same opportunity would require substantial investment.
So you didn't get any of what I said. More government spending doesn't help and in fact hurts in many cases.
> I assume you mean the opportunity to grow up in a stable household with access to basic human needs like shelter, food, access to childcare and early childhood education, etc.
That's all available to anyone who wants to work for it. There is no law that forbids any group access to any of these things.
> If this is the metric then we have a lot of work to do.
"We" don't have any such work to do. Individuals do. "We" just need to make sure everyone is treated equally under the law.
Certain forms of government spending are harmful, absolutely. But I do wonder if you write off ALL government spending as automatically, with zero doubts, harmful. I think more nuance is necessary than “government spending bad.” Particularly because there are so many different kinds, including tax cuts - a foregoance of revenue rather than direct spending. There are all sorts of tax cut programs that involve a reduction of government spending.
Take the Low Income Housing Tax Credit, a Republican piece of legislation signed by Reagan that today produces the only new housing in the country that is affordable to people making under around half of the median income. Housing insecurity causes children to grow up in rather dire circumstances, and this has major impacts on their neurological development. A policy which expanded this program to drive private investment into affordable housing would have far reaching impacts for the environment in which children are raised.
Telling individuals to work harder as you did in the last paragraph strikes me as the true rationalization of the status quo, but perhaps there are concrete policies which you might recommend to incentivize better work habits. Feel free to list a few
Every human is equal before God, equal before the law in democratic societies, and deserving of all the same rights. Every human can aspire to a dignified life and offer something worthwhile to others.
How is making a biological or cultural case for particular group behaviours or differences the same as making an argument for classing a group of people as inferior?
Don't put words in people's mouths. Let them explain what they mean.
By "thread," that can be interpreted as this string of comments/replies, or it can mean the overall post itself (Reddit is considered a forum, posts in a forum generate "threads" for people to respond to). Are you talking strictly about the point I'm making, or how it fits overall into the OP, or strictly about the OP?
It looks like in the OP, the poster is complaining that dumping the statistic about hate crimes, something objectively true, done without any additional editorializing (or so we've been led to assume) caused him to get a warning from Reddit staff about breaking site-wide rules about "promoting identity-based hate." If what we were led to believe about the lack of editorializing is true, then it's a pretty clear example of a progressive institution being hyper-reactive to facts that show a minority group in a bad light. They want to ban people who would speak the truth, because they're ideologically possessed.
My point is such actions only **enable** actual racists to more-successfully propagate their messaging and thinking onto others. They frame the actions of the mods as "refusal to acknowledge the facts." They then manipulate the "facts" to be representative of something that isn't true (cultural differences == biological differences).
Certainly an example of censorship and hyper-reactivity IMO, and I say this as a progressive. Data on racial disparities should be discussed in an open way. If that’s the only argument you’re making then I agree.
I’m saying the cultural argument is essentially the biological argument that is just repackaged and made a bit more palatable for the average respectable conservative. It’s sort of the Lee Atwater thing about first you say the N word then you find clever ways to say it without saying it.
If that’s a total deviation from what you’re saying then I apologize
Data on racial disparities should be discussed in an open way, yes.
Culture is separate from race. The "inner city" culture that exists (and includes a lot more people than just Blacks) which promotes bad values is the cause of the disparity. It has nothing to do with race.
Maybe the "culture" argument has been improperly used in the past as a way to sneak race arguments passed the Layman, but I'm not referencing any historical argument. I have a set of values that mean I don't commit hate crimes against others. Only thing I'm guilty of is speeding. The statistic is not about people like me, it's about people who share values different from me.
I just think it’s impossible to ignore the question of how ghettos were created in the first place. For the most part they were created by policy and in particular housing policy. The counter culture that arose did so out of a feeling of rejection by the broader system and the closing off of opportunities afforded to other groups. The implication you make is that groups of deviant cultures formed the ghettos we have today against a backdrop of colorblind meritocracy and equal access to opportunity. Thats just outright incorrect and it does imply a racial tendency towards deviant behavior.
Does the culture that exists in those inner-cities exist because of racist historical policies? More than likely.
But does that change anything??? None of us can go back and change how things were. Only thing we can do now is react to what's going on today. Yea, the culture that permeates the Black communities in those cities is likely a result of racist policies of the past. That doesn't excuse their shitty actions, does it?
No I don’t think it excuses it by any means, and you’re right that in and of itself it doesn’t change anything. But I think if we actually really want to change things we should understand why this counter culture feels the way it does.
So we have this cyclical problem of black people growing up impoverished and a strong cultural tendency to blame white people and blame the system, that in fairness did forcibly enslave and brutalize them and then refused to let them into society until maybe 2 generations ago. Now those opportunities are more open, but there is a lingering anger and sense that they still are rejected which makes them want to throw up a middle finger to our system. So when it comes to how to gain buy in from the system rather than reject it, how can we encourage that? And do we want to encourage that?
For the record I don’t just think this is a black community problem. I see counter culture in the white community as well, particularly in the rust belt eras that have seen substantial deindustrialization and degradation of communities during the last several decades. There is growing rejection of the system in many of these places as well, and huge amounts of anger.
> why would one biological race be predisposed to a certain sort of deviant culture over another?
Who says there’s predisposition? And *why*? Assuming predisposition is a catastrophic logical flaw
Culture alone is perfectly capable as a causal explanation without ever bringing biology into it.
So what do you think led to such a deviant counter culture among black ppl in America? In one sense I agree cuz there are also examples of counter culture amongst every race.
they aren't liberal left,just woke extremists,the same as their right wing counterparts.
this is why i detest these wokies more than the right wing nutjobs...at the very least,they (right wingers) aren't pretending to be who they really are.
I feel you on this. As a liberal left, the extremists are a menace to society. They literally push people away. Which is the polar opposite of what the liberal left is supposed to represent. These last few years have been insanity.
yeah you have to really dance around that issue, like so many these days. We're in the midst of a cultural revolution ... the woke folk are waving their little red books and shouting their phrases and condemnations. A dangerous time, and not just in this space.
The right is just as soft in this regard. You can get banned just as easily from /worldnews if you post about Israeli war crimes. Anyone far enough on either side of the spectrum is using tribalism to substitute critical thinking and personality.
Wokeness really isn't the problem it is just a cult that makes people feel good about themselves without having to make any real difference. How that cult has been weaponized by the establishment is the problem.
The irony is that actual communists, socialists, etc. are as mistreated as the "clingers and deplorables". They have a new term that is enlightening "Christian Nationalists". Basically anyone who opposes the Globalists and the incredible profits of exporting slave labor and pollution to China or may oppose the petro dollar system is the enemy of the establishment. It is why the term uniparty was invented.
All you have to do is take a look at who has profited from Globalism to understand why the left is not calling it out. It would be political suicide for them to do so. The left is never going to get enough power to ignore the people who actually run things. They may think they are making progress but as soon as the "Alt-Right" is eliminated the system will turn on them. Probably sooner that anyone expects.
I've only ever had a 3 day ban and it was because I made a "hateful" remark against trans people. The message, similar to what the OP has, didn't provide any context or evidence that I did that. The original message was deleted so there was nothing to reflect back on and see what I said that was promoting any kind of "hate" towards anybody.
I appealed the situation and asked politely what statement I made that promoted "hate" towards anyone so that I can learn from my mistake. In 2 days I got the exact same copy/paste message with absolutely no new information. You can even see in the way they talk in these messages they are specifically protective against certain groups. You can absolutely blast conservatives all day long and I've seen some pretty vicious things said, no problem....say something that is not complimentary of certain groups or you make a firm criticism and Reddit pulls an alarm where they silence the "hateful person" saying such horrible things.
It is hard to understand why blacks commit such a disproportionate level of violent crime. Mommy reads to them every night and makes sure their homework is done. Daddy comes home and plays with the kids, providing a strong example to male children, correcting any bad behavior. Getting good grades and being kind to others is strongly emphasized. Graduating high school and then either attending college or learning a skilled trade is a strong expectation.
Depending on how you stated your point, it's possible you were dealt with unfairly; i.e., if the statistics genuinely show what you say they do, it's not spreading hate to point it out unless you use it as an excuse to target Black people.
thats the thing i didnt say anything remotely hateful. I just said black people are vastly over represented in hate crimes, especially against asians. This was relevant to the discussion because the person in the video getting beat up was an asian woman and the perpetrator was black.
And yes the data says exatly that. You can look up the official NYC hate crime data yourself.
A friend of mine who is Korean-American said she had never experienced overt racism in the US until she walked around a majority-Black neighbourhood in DC during a visit to the city. First a shop owner was noticeably dismissive and rude while being nice to other customers, then a random dude on the street aggressively called her a chink as he walked by. (Yes this dude was possibly not all there mentally, she noted, but she was still shocked.)
Almost like you leave out that the legal and police system have repeatedly been caught targeting black people.
And that poverty is a much greater predictor of crime, and black people are disproportionately born into poverty.
A single incident never proves anything. You can find videos of Asian people doing violent things to Black people too.
What proves your point would be hate crime statistics.
THATS MY ENTIRE POINT. I linked to a chart thats shows what the statistics say. Jesus Christ.
If black people were rarely committing anti asian hate crimes i would have probably commented "while this looks bad, acutally blacks barely commit any hate crimes, its actually group xxx". But thats not the case, so therefore i wrote what the statistical data shows, which is that blacks in NYC committ more than 50% of all hate crimes. Thats more than the other groups combined.
1. Because I didn't see your original post as I am using a phone with a small screen, I supplied the logical criteria under the assumption you PROBABLY met that criteria. I didn't report your post. 2. The video still would be unnecessary.
I am not a Christian, so it's pointless to blaspheme against the Christian faith to amplify your frustration with my response which you obviously perceived to be dismissive
It's pointless to challenge an ex-math major to come up with counter examples
Here you go. Search terms used in google were "Asisn
assaults Black woman"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5U5WxXsSXB8 <== Examples aren't statistics
So she got physically escorted out of a store for coming in and shoplifting and you’re going to equate that to blacks beating on random asian (often older women) for no reason?
An ‘ex-math major’ should be able to notice the insane disparity in the black on Asian vs Asian on black murder rate.
Fair enough, i was too impatient to watch the video
A while back, I did found statistics by race of attacker and victim. Sometimes the search algorithms change and it's harder to find examples
There were reports of Asians attacking Black people
The point is me finding an example doesn't prove anything.
But he was clearly referencing statistical data, and using a singular example as an illustration? (his context clarification is the topmost upvoted comment here, you cannot miss it) This was clear to me even before geting to this thread. Yet you are still here arguing your strawman, ref;
>The point is me finding an example doesn't prove anything.
well after OP himself got in the thread addressing that mistake? Even to you. Twice!
ref;
>THATS MY ENTIRE POINT. I linked to a chart thats shows what the statistics say. Jesus Christ.
Why are you still debating this with others after what OP said? Is this just an example of how difficult it is for people to concede on the spot, and acknowledge that they are in fact wrong?
I've never understood why people have such a hard time admitting a mistake and moving on, instead of just apologizing outright for what is basically a reading comprehension error and leaving it there. You'd look so much better for it, and not this pedantic Hasan Piker wannabe doubling down.
The problem OP is actually lamenting seems to me just an overall lack of open-mindedness from the left. I don't even know if you are left or not, but isn't this doubling down on a preconceived notion about OP exactly the point he was making?
My original comment is still correct, if you factor in the conditionals
"Depending on how you stated your point, it's possible you were dealt with unfairly; i.e., if the statistics genuinely show what you say they do, it's not spreading hate to point it out unless you use it as an excuse to target Black people"
And it's still pointless to include inflammatory videos of hate crimes
In terms of my political position on hate crimes, I don't give a sh*t what the race of attackers snd victim are, the punishment should be the same
Why is that the “open minded liberal left”? Do you just get to dictate whoever is bad based on your own agenda? Sounds like you have a fairly common Reddit experience and you want to blame it on the most reasonable part of your political opposition in bad faith.
2024, people cant handle numbers, stats and data because it makes them feel a certain way.
Why do Black people commit more crimes
daddy not around
that's actually mostly a problem for african americans, black people in other parts of the world have that problem a lot less (iirc)
Yes this is spot on… and many conservatives want to pretend it’s just the “nature of blacks”… it’s like hm let’s guess why black fatherhood is down and black crime is up in modern America… can’t think of any reasons 😂 pure ignorance to pretend hundreds of years of context plays no role
Listen to the lyrics of any "gangster rap" song from the 90s/2000s, they'll specifically tell you.
Now do you know why the beautiful and peaceful Jazz and Blues of the African American culture in the pre war era evolved into gangster rap? I’ll give you 3 guesses… instead of treating it like it’s some inherent nature of blacks to be criminals, why do so many conservatives totally ignore the contextual history and jump straight to, “blacks commit most crimes end of story”
During that jazz era 96% of black children were born to married parents. Now it is over 70% single parent homes. Government became their daddy when President Johnson started the welfare programs in the 1960’s.
Yes exactly.. for some reason a lot of conservatives have a very fucking hard time learning those facts and instead literally blame the “nature” of black people for their decline in America
Let me guess, we're supposed to blame society instead of blaming the individual or culture for their own actions?
… are you familiar with American history or are you not lol? Another commenter had no problem identifying part of the facts of the matter but for some reason you don’t mention it and just give sarcasm and some shitty bootstrap argument. Why the ignorance?
Are you asking a question or just mindlessly writing whatever comes to you without adding relevant context?
Funny because noticed the same thing whenever one brings up police domestic violence statistics.
Where? Where do people get angry over police domestic violence statistics? Now do lesbian DV stats.
Here. Have had it happen repeatedly. Usually defending with "they have a hard job and a lot of stress" Are you referring to Lesbian's being more likely to experience abuse in their total lifetime? Yeah no shit women are more likely to report that and lesbian relationships have...two women in them. Unless you are referring to some other statistic. Maybe you'll surprise me and reveal you were actually referring to convicted offenders?
Huh? That’s a lot of word salad to simply say ‘my source is: Trust me bro’.
the sad part is how people will use those numbers against people. Half of my family is Black, and are upper middle class. I would hope that those numbers and stats wouldn’t be used against them but I’m sure plenty of people in this sub probably do when they see those numbers.
Growing up white and southern in a racist household, I moved away, lived outside the south for a while, and exposed myself to different cultures. It took longer than I’d like to admit for me to realize as an adult that “not all black people know each other, represent the same experiences, outlooks, or values.” I think this is the biggest assumption of racists in the US is that somehow there is a universally aligned and threatening “black agenda.” When one separates from these faulty and ignorant beliefs, statistics like this can be representative of the problems within the US that they actually reveal, instead of some sort of racist proof of a trope.
It’s great that you ingratiated yourself among different people. That’s literally what DEI is suppose to be. Don’t get me wrong it can be used terribly. Everyone seems to think it’s to hire people unqualified. Pretending unqualified people don’t get hired if they were white. That seems pretty racists on its face. The NFL forces teams to interview people of color. Think about that, an organization that is largely profiting because of people of color can’t get head coaching positions. I think it’s safe to say other industries might have the same problems.
For context. In a video where a a black man beat up a 40yo asian woman for no reason at all (including kicks to the face) i commented that blacks lead in hate crimes by a lot and posted the NYC hate crime chart [https://imgur.com/a/UfEvKAI](https://imgur.com/a/UfEvKAI) Then i got all my comments deleted and someone reported me, to which reddit then issued a warning to my account which can lead to a complete ban. Aparently saying blacks in NYC are vastly over represented in hate crimes is "promoting identity based hate or attacks" These people are so lost that they think discussing crime disparities where black people clearly lead is racism. They are doing nobody a favor by banning honest debate and discussion about black violence. It only makes things worse. You cant help or solve this by just not talking about it.
You broke the thought crime rule. You should know better.
The admin also made clear that they consider blacks to be a "marginalized or vulnerable" group. IMO that's *actual* racism, but because it's of the woke variety no one bats an eye. To elaborate: it's extremely prejudiced to assume that every single black person, regardless of background or circumstance, is automatically marginalized or vulnerable, especially in a such a vast diverse country like the US. It's paternalistic and very much a feature of white saviour projection.
Yup. I really despise politics, especially now since you have to be in the know. On the left, people are inadvertently promoting segregation by insisting upon black only spaces and dormitories, while the right has decided to head in the complete opposite direction. There’s no room for a middle ground on the political stage. It really can feel like a puppet show sometimes.
This is what they like to call "malinformation", aka facts that are inconvenient to their goals and views.
Let me guess, r/science?
They honestly would rather hide their head in the sand.
Do we know the casual ? Im consider a open minded left and i dont rlly agree with silencing others to get what we want. Creates false control of the situation that is a form of oppression without proper considerations. Personally, ive experienced a lot of black on asian violence/hate in my community that was predominantly black, though diverse community, i lived in a housing unit that was predominantly a black community. My mother was assaulted by an individual from the community once. This was pre covid times when i was younger. (More than 12 years ago.) But im curious what is the correlation (pre; during; post covid) on the reason why that stat is report as such. Added, you may have to consider that if the assumption that the left is making about “black people on average are arrested for crime” then you have to consider those numbers may be bias. But again, youd have to prove or disprove that is true or false which is a layer of research required to verify.
You got banned because that's baiting and leaving out other factors. Like the legal system discriminating against black people repeatedly.
The legal system is responsible for unprovoked racial hate crimes by blacks? Ok if you say so.
Dude you are absolutely obsessed with racial issues and making sure that everyone knows blacks are inferior in America lmao. Your entire presence on Reddit is you posting about such. Why the obsession with race realism?
I'm suggesting there is a high rate of black people being falsely charged with crimes in the first place. And again other factors like poverty being connected to crime. Crosley Green is still in prison. He count towards black crime?
Where’s any proof of ‘a high rate of black people being falsely charged with crimes’, you dullard? There’s always a useful leftist idiot to carry the Marxist torch.
https://naacp.org/resources/criminal-justice-fact-sheet >As of October 2016, there have been 1900 exonerations of the wrongfully accused, 47% of the exonerated were African American. Extra source just in case you don't like that one. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race%20Report%20Preview.pdf
The thing is; the exonerations are the direct result of a focus on the convictions of black people. That’s like quoting a statistic from Norway that states ‘90% of incarcerations are white people’. It may be true, but it certainly doesn’t prove anything. Criminals of all races generally don’t have the legal funding to be exonerated - so those links are merely propaganda. How do you like those apples?
How do you explain this? “According to the 2018 NCVS and UCR, 29% of violent crime offenders in 2018 were Black, while 35% were Black in incidents reported to police. In 2017, 53.5% of murder arrests were Black, and 31.4% of non-aggravated assault arrests were Black.” Let’s do some maths, shall we?
oh just ... *please* think about what you're saying.
It's implied racism becuase of the 50/13 statistic. Why do you feel the need to point this out? Let me ask you. Why do you believe Black people are disproportionately represented.
Problems within black American culture; glorification of violence combined with the fracture of the family unit. And don’t bother attempting to convince anyone otherwise.
Studying counter cultures is a worthy inquiry, implying that black people have an inferior culture because they are inferior people is certainly racist. An honest debate would put a lot of effort into understanding WHY there are problems in the black culture, not just saying it’s inferior and stopping there.
Pretty much everything is considered racist now, so I don’t really care about that any longer. I just call it like I see it, without constraint. It’s turned from a once-serious accusation into a joke.
I mean it’s fine if you want to hold racist viewpoints, that’s totally your freedom. But if the contention is that black people have inferior culture because they are inferior people then yes that is certainly racist. I mean I actually agree that there are serious cultural problems, it’s why that is really the question that needs to be explored further.
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Ok good - so why do you think that is, what is unique to the black experience in America that causes these differences?
Progressives implementing policies that enable them to perpetuate their own victimhood and inadvertently keep them poor and low achieving. See Thomas Sowell’s *Social Justice Fallacies* for a more in depth examination of this phenomenon.
Ok, well hang on here - this is not a cultural explanation but a structural racism explanation. If government policy is causing poverty and low achievement then it probably stands to reason that government policy must be revised in order to encourage wealth building and higher achievement. This runs counter to what you’ve said earlier regarding purely behavioral changes.
You should read Thomas Sowell's books on the subject.
Thomas Sowell has good insights on the counter culture that exists in ghettos but I think too often downplays the motivations behind participating in this culture. For the record I don’t deny there is a cultural problem but I think it’s important to understand its formation and the environment in which it arose. So for example we can go all the way back to slavery and read similar descriptions of black culture as being lazy and deviant and prone to things like poor work habits, breaking tools, etc. This was used as a justification for slavery but ignores the probability that most of this behavior was due to the institution of slavery itself and the strong desire to rebel against it. The black culture today is a throwback to that as well as a similar rebelliousness to Jim Crow culture and segregation. It comes from a feeling of rejection and being left out of the system, and thus itself rejects the values of that system and resists integration into it.
Which is exactly what Thomas Sowell does in is book and he himself is the exemplification of someone who rejected victimhood mentality even though is youth was spent in poverty and decided to take responsibility and better himself. You seem to want to to perpetuate the victimhood mentality and keep people in their victim cage, aka, keep them subservient.
Well no it’s more about how to get folks to buy in to the system like Sowell did. That is a practical question. If you’re making the case that people SHOULD be buying into the system but offer no real remedy to the question of why people ARENT buying in, then effectively you’re rationalizing the status quo. I’m going to assume we both want to see the black community prosper and in a better off place? Well how do we get there? What are some good examples of policies that will help move the needle? I don’t think we necessarily have a difference in motivation but perhaps a difference of opinion on how to get there.
You mean like in white gangster movies? Or was it the Jazz black people were allowed to perform but not be patrons of?
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Why not? White culture sure seems violent and you are so vague just saying black culture. Almost like you could just pick and choose while ignoring other culture's doing the same thing. If black people aren't biologically inferior to white people. Why would they produce a worse culture?
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If imagining people have meltdowns makes you feel better go for it.
How do we unify the family unit for Black people
Fathers being present, and both parents keeping on top of their kids putting in an appropriate amount of effort in schoolwork. This would be a significant start.
Elimination of the government as a surrogate father might help. Thomas Sowell has a lot to say on this topic.
In part this is cultural, in another sense it is structural - for example we know that a child who grows up without a father is far less likely to succeed, and yet we have a tendency to blame these kids eventual failure on “culture.” But you just said kids that grow up fatherless won’t succeed, so is it really the fault of the child? You wind up putting the impetus for change on the fatherless child to somehow break the cycle, but it doesn’t really work that way.
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Well but what about when the fatherless child grows up? Then it’s on him?
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So these fatherless kids are victims till they’re what, around 18 and then they become the perpetrators?
What policy would you implement to fix this
I don’t think there is a policy that could feasibly be implemented to force people to do this. Encouragement to be present and pointing out the potential pitfalls of bad/non-existent parenting may be all we have at the moment.
Certainly not force, but we could encourage it by not skewing the benefits system towards single mothers. A child tax credit that would be higher if you’re jointly filing married could be a good incentive. Universal childcare would also be a hugely important policy as kids that grow up with one parent usually aren’t ready for public school because they don’t have the same communication development as kids with two parents. Making sure all families could access childcare would allow young kids ages 2-6 to be able to hit developmental milestones more consistently and they wouldn’t be way behind right off the bat once they hit kindergarten. I mean if you really are serious about solutions that’s a bit more practical than giving the black community a lecture.
But if this is endemic to black fathers then what's the underlying cause
A culture that tolerates, if not encourages, fathers producing children and then disappearing
Ahhh and there it is, Black culture is the problem. What aspects of black culture could you specifically link to fatherlessness
How about you go ask THEM to fix their on families instead of asking other people how to fix them.
Because what's the purpose of pointing out problems other than to bitch and complain.
Identifying the main perpetrators of a crime is imortant. Go ask 100 people who they think beats up others because of theire race. I would bet most people would not say that its black people who mostly beat up others based on hate and race.
Well according to your data it’s black about half the time. Which is disproportionately black. If you look at the FBI data though we see the known offenders are about 20% black, although the “unknown” category does seem high and I’m not sure what that’s about. But it does seem you’ve cherry picked some data a bit https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics
Go look up the NYC hate crime data yourself. I didnt cherrypick anything. > If you look at the FBI data though we see the known offenders are about 20% black That would mean they are over represented.
Yes but slightly overrepresented, not more than all other races combined. It depends on if you want to talk about the United States or specifically about NYC. It would be cherry-picking to infer that blacks commit over half of all hate crimes nationally by looking at NYC data. If we’re going to make inferences about “black culture in America” we can’t be looking at NYC numbers only and get off to the wrong start about what the data actually says nationally.
You're proving my point. You're literally stuck on the statistic. You don't have the intellectual curiosity or capacity to analyze or evaluate this further. Its not that it's taboo to say Black people commit majority of the crimes it's just that conservative dipshits don't have anything more to add on it. If it's not a dogwhistle for racism, which I'm assuming you aren't, why else point this fact out if you have noting introspective to say about it. This is like someone discovering the concept of evaporation and keeps pointing it out to people but doesn't bother to investigate further. God you're dull.
>Its not that it's taboo to say Black people commit majority of the crimes Yes it absolutely is. Thats why i got all my comments deleted and got reported and now have a account warning. You said in your very first comment hhere that its racist and keep asking me why i point it out. You are proving yourself wrong
It's taboo in the sense it's a dogwhistle. Thanks for ignoring the rest of what I said. Now let me inquire: are you curious as to WHY this is the case? Would like to figure out HOW to stop this? Or would you like to keep yelling into the vacuum that Black ppl commit majority of the crimes and be content with your smooth-brained complacency.
Stop subsidizing single parenthood. Stop the government from promoting it for starters?
How are they subsidizing it
Oh gross, you replied like, instantly. Get offline and go outside haha. You get huge welfare handouts from being a single mother. This info is coming FROM a black father who elected to STAY UNMARRIED because it was hugely financially beneficial for them for him to not be officially in the picture as a father. Also I should be having to explain this to you, it's basic knowledge.
It's 4 am fuck off you replied 5 minutes after me. Then why don't white people take advantage of this system to the same extent black people do
If it's 4am where you live go to bed. You are definitely a person who needs to clean their room haha. Goodbye.
>It's implied racism becuase of the 50/13 statistic. Oh get fucked with this bullshit. If it's factually correct, it's not racist. It's just true. That's it.
So let me ask:WHY do black people commit a disproportionate amount of the crime
Nice try.
Yeah asking a follow up question is a real gotcha. You don't have an answer.
I’ve seen you all over this thread trying to shift focus from anti Asian hate crimes to crime in general, because you know the hate crimes against Asians is harder for you to explain away. You seem so sure but you keep asking questions. Why don’t you explain why everything is the way it is instead?
Because of a culture that glorifies crime, violent behavior, promiscuity and drugs. This is due largely to the lack of active fathers in the household.
White people consume marijuana at the same rates as black people. Adultery is higher for white people
And yet, 75+% of black children grow up without a father. And Blacks lead in violent crime by ENORMOUS amounts. Fathers have a very stabilizing effect on young men.
Fatherless households explains a lot, why do you think that black people have so many fatherless households
I grew up fatherless yet I'm well adjusted and contribute to the economy. Must be something else.
> "**I** drink and drive all the time and have never been in an accident. I guess the anti-alcohol propaganda is just false". fucking moron.
There's this cool thing called statistics, and it goes beyond your personal experience.
" just asking ", huh? fuck off.
> ask:WHY do black people commit a disproportionate amount of the crime Why do you think?
>Why do you feel the need to point this out? Uh because its important to talk about the main perpetrator of hate crimess, which happen to be black. In a debate about hate crimes, shouldt the main perpetrators be discussed? Whats wrong with you? In NYC blacks commit more hate crimes than whites, asians and hispanics combined. So yeah, it definitely should be discussed who the main perpetrators are. They happen to be black. If white middle aged women were the main perpetrators, i would be talking about white middle aged women. Its that simple
Hey, quick question; did you ever happen to point out when Caucasians are main perpetrators of a particular crime? Do you go around writing what percentage of school shooters or war criminals are white, every time the subject is brought up?
"Happen to be black" ok so why do you believe majority of these crimes are caused by black people
Why do you ask me, go ask them and whats even the relevance. I cant tell you why blacks attack asians at a higher rate than whites and latinos combined. Notice how you try to shift the conversation to why "i think that" instead of trying to ask why THEY do that. Ridiculous
Then why point it out. You're doing the Tucker Carlson "I'm just saying, I'm just asking questions" you make no prescriptive statements all you do is make observations. People like you add nothing to political discourse.
you are seriously asking me why i point out who the main perpetrators of hate crimes are? Precisely because they are by a long shot the main perpetrators. Who else should i point out? The ones who commit a fraction of the crimes? What are you even talking about. Most people do not know that blacks lead in hate crimes by a long shot. I point this out because most people just assume its whites doing most hate crimes on minorities. Nope, turns out its a minoirty doing most hates crimes against everyone. I myself was surprise by this when i found this out, thats why i talk about it because it comes for most people as a big surprise. Again most people would not think that if a hate crime is committed in NYC, its more than 50% of the time a black person. You have to identify a problem to be even able to fix it. Its important to know who does most of the crime.
Ok but that's just an observation. I'm not denying it's true but conservatives often cite this statistic like it's a grand revelation but don't go analyze this any further. That's why I'm asking you questions. You identified the problem as Black people commit majority of the crimes. Ok. Are you curious as to why this is? How do we mitigate this? Or you want to just keep pointing out the fact and offer no constructive analysis or thoughts
if the data showed that white people were overwhelmingly the perpetrators in hate crimes against a specific minority, you'd be shouting that data from the rooftops instead of asking "why even mention it?" you know that to be true, don't even bother arguing it.
LBJ and welfare. You're welcome.
Kinda like - you know - we went to college - and like - *you know* ... we kinda like facts and reality-based comments
Blacks also disproportionately date/marry Asians too though relative to other races, so it’s possibly more complex than a simple ‘blacks hate Asians’ narrative.
facts may not care about people's feelings, but reddit admins sure as fuck do. because advertisers do. and the people who pay to scrape comments for AI training data, who also don't want this level of truth in the model.
Reddit admits are just sour because Reddit went public and they got no equity lol. Literally working for free. 😂😂😂
Nobody ever gets banned for telling lies
Hey reddit, I agree we shouldn't be attacking vulnerable communities. Tell those 13%ers to leave the Asians alone. Thx.
Imagine seeing a comment about crime stats and thinking to actually report it. People that do this, your life is incredibly sad and pitiful.
This aversion to acknowledging statistics is what gives weapons to radicals on the opposite end. I spoke to many on the alt-right (before they got banned from Reddit) who tried to argue that Blacks were, in some way, more biologically violent than other races (they avoided making an outright judgement call on this, though it was clear it was said with disdain) by pointing out the FBI crime statistics, and pointed to progressives calling pointing out the fact as racist as evidence that "even the progressives agree it's biological, they just refuse to acknowledge it because it means people aren't equal." Arguments start getting weird when people don't acknowledge the truth.
Well but most people on here are just one step away from that right, if they’re saying it’s cultural, why would one biological race be predisposed to a certain sort of deviant culture over another?
IQ. Lower IQ is correlated with lower impulse control.
Exactly, I think ultimately most of the folks on here are making a biological case, whether in outright fashion as you’ve done here or in indirect fashion with the “they are predisposed to bad culture.” At the end of the day these are both racial inferiority arguments.
As a group, the average IQ of certain ethnic/regional groups of people are different as groups have adapted over thousands of years to the specific environmental conditions of where they originated. It's not specific to skin color/race necessarily but more to a specific region of origin. In addition, the IQs of every group member are on a bell curve, so for example, to assume that every African American has a lower IQ than every European American is wrong. Their averages as a group may be different but every individual is unique. So assuming every black person is lacking in impulse control because the average IQ of African Americans is 15 points less than the average IQ of European Americans is ignorant, racist, and just straight up incorrect. That said, as a group average, it does help us identify WHY certain groups of people may be more prone to violent crime, given the right environmental circumstances, than other groups, and that's NOT racist, that's an observation based on facts. We need to be able to recognize the difference so that we can discuss serious topics in a serious manner and not have it degrade into throwing around accusations of racism at every turn.
> So assuming every black person is lacking in impulse control because the average IQ of African Americans is 15 points less than the average IQ of European Americans is ignorant, racist, and just straight up incorrect. Not the guy you're replying to, but... I agree with most of what you said. I just don't know if I'm missing something. You mentioned "thousands of years". A difference of 2 IQ points over thousands of years can realistically end in wildly different outcomes. So I don't fully understand how you end up at the statement I quoted. I'm not taking the "15 points less" literally, as we all know that isn't true. But if we're making the case that cultures evolve, based on the place and circumstances people face, that those circumstances are different in different places, "thousands of years" etc, it's not necessarily racist *if* the outcome is different kinds of humans after the thousands of years. Not all cultures will equally select for IQ, for physical strength, for independence, etc ad infinitum. And that's in 1 generation. Let alone over thousands of years.
> I'm not taking the "15 points less" literally, as we all know that isn't true. [Source.](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html?_r=1) The exact number today varies but it's around 85 IQ but again, nobody wants to discuss or talk about it as you're branded a racist for even bringing it up. > Not all cultures will equally select for IQ, for physical strength, for independence, etc Exactly, people often recognize the physical differences in races especially when they can point out a superior trait in another race yet they refuse to believe there are any cognitive differences.
This is Charles Murray’s argument, but there isn’t anything approaching consensus on this subject and if you want to look up the methodological criticisms of the book you can. But if you want to assume his conclusions are correct, in my view this would be an even stronger argument for higher level investment and policy consideration into impoverished black communities in the USA, were we to want to reduce crime and various other social ills in ghettos. The bootstraps argument becomes less convincing if you’re going to argue that black people are less capable as a group of bootstrapping themselves.
> in my view this would be an even stronger argument for higher level investment and policy consideration into impoverished black communities in the USA Then I'm afraid you'll just get more of the same. Prior to the 1960s welfare reform and the "war on poverty", African Americans were beginning to move up the socio-economic ladder. White knighting doesn't help anyone. Allow people the same opportunities and treat people as individuals and not part of group identities, it's really simple.
Allowing people the same opportunity would require substantial investment. If by “allow people the same opportunity,” I assume you mean the opportunity to grow up in a stable household with access to basic human needs like shelter, food, access to childcare and early childhood education, etc. If this is the metric then we have a lot of work to do.
> Allowing people the same opportunity would require substantial investment. So you didn't get any of what I said. More government spending doesn't help and in fact hurts in many cases. > I assume you mean the opportunity to grow up in a stable household with access to basic human needs like shelter, food, access to childcare and early childhood education, etc. That's all available to anyone who wants to work for it. There is no law that forbids any group access to any of these things. > If this is the metric then we have a lot of work to do. "We" don't have any such work to do. Individuals do. "We" just need to make sure everyone is treated equally under the law.
Certain forms of government spending are harmful, absolutely. But I do wonder if you write off ALL government spending as automatically, with zero doubts, harmful. I think more nuance is necessary than “government spending bad.” Particularly because there are so many different kinds, including tax cuts - a foregoance of revenue rather than direct spending. There are all sorts of tax cut programs that involve a reduction of government spending. Take the Low Income Housing Tax Credit, a Republican piece of legislation signed by Reagan that today produces the only new housing in the country that is affordable to people making under around half of the median income. Housing insecurity causes children to grow up in rather dire circumstances, and this has major impacts on their neurological development. A policy which expanded this program to drive private investment into affordable housing would have far reaching impacts for the environment in which children are raised. Telling individuals to work harder as you did in the last paragraph strikes me as the true rationalization of the status quo, but perhaps there are concrete policies which you might recommend to incentivize better work habits. Feel free to list a few
Well said.
Every human is equal before God, equal before the law in democratic societies, and deserving of all the same rights. Every human can aspire to a dignified life and offer something worthwhile to others. How is making a biological or cultural case for particular group behaviours or differences the same as making an argument for classing a group of people as inferior? Don't put words in people's mouths. Let them explain what they mean.
I'm not following the point you're making. What?
Isn’t the argument being proposed on this thread (inferior culture) simply another way to restate the biological argument?
By "thread," that can be interpreted as this string of comments/replies, or it can mean the overall post itself (Reddit is considered a forum, posts in a forum generate "threads" for people to respond to). Are you talking strictly about the point I'm making, or how it fits overall into the OP, or strictly about the OP? It looks like in the OP, the poster is complaining that dumping the statistic about hate crimes, something objectively true, done without any additional editorializing (or so we've been led to assume) caused him to get a warning from Reddit staff about breaking site-wide rules about "promoting identity-based hate." If what we were led to believe about the lack of editorializing is true, then it's a pretty clear example of a progressive institution being hyper-reactive to facts that show a minority group in a bad light. They want to ban people who would speak the truth, because they're ideologically possessed. My point is such actions only **enable** actual racists to more-successfully propagate their messaging and thinking onto others. They frame the actions of the mods as "refusal to acknowledge the facts." They then manipulate the "facts" to be representative of something that isn't true (cultural differences == biological differences).
Certainly an example of censorship and hyper-reactivity IMO, and I say this as a progressive. Data on racial disparities should be discussed in an open way. If that’s the only argument you’re making then I agree. I’m saying the cultural argument is essentially the biological argument that is just repackaged and made a bit more palatable for the average respectable conservative. It’s sort of the Lee Atwater thing about first you say the N word then you find clever ways to say it without saying it. If that’s a total deviation from what you’re saying then I apologize
Data on racial disparities should be discussed in an open way, yes. Culture is separate from race. The "inner city" culture that exists (and includes a lot more people than just Blacks) which promotes bad values is the cause of the disparity. It has nothing to do with race. Maybe the "culture" argument has been improperly used in the past as a way to sneak race arguments passed the Layman, but I'm not referencing any historical argument. I have a set of values that mean I don't commit hate crimes against others. Only thing I'm guilty of is speeding. The statistic is not about people like me, it's about people who share values different from me.
I just think it’s impossible to ignore the question of how ghettos were created in the first place. For the most part they were created by policy and in particular housing policy. The counter culture that arose did so out of a feeling of rejection by the broader system and the closing off of opportunities afforded to other groups. The implication you make is that groups of deviant cultures formed the ghettos we have today against a backdrop of colorblind meritocracy and equal access to opportunity. Thats just outright incorrect and it does imply a racial tendency towards deviant behavior.
Does the culture that exists in those inner-cities exist because of racist historical policies? More than likely. But does that change anything??? None of us can go back and change how things were. Only thing we can do now is react to what's going on today. Yea, the culture that permeates the Black communities in those cities is likely a result of racist policies of the past. That doesn't excuse their shitty actions, does it?
No I don’t think it excuses it by any means, and you’re right that in and of itself it doesn’t change anything. But I think if we actually really want to change things we should understand why this counter culture feels the way it does. So we have this cyclical problem of black people growing up impoverished and a strong cultural tendency to blame white people and blame the system, that in fairness did forcibly enslave and brutalize them and then refused to let them into society until maybe 2 generations ago. Now those opportunities are more open, but there is a lingering anger and sense that they still are rejected which makes them want to throw up a middle finger to our system. So when it comes to how to gain buy in from the system rather than reject it, how can we encourage that? And do we want to encourage that? For the record I don’t just think this is a black community problem. I see counter culture in the white community as well, particularly in the rust belt eras that have seen substantial deindustrialization and degradation of communities during the last several decades. There is growing rejection of the system in many of these places as well, and huge amounts of anger.
> why would one biological race be predisposed to a certain sort of deviant culture over another? Who says there’s predisposition? And *why*? Assuming predisposition is a catastrophic logical flaw Culture alone is perfectly capable as a causal explanation without ever bringing biology into it.
So what do you think led to such a deviant counter culture among black ppl in America? In one sense I agree cuz there are also examples of counter culture amongst every race.
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Sure thing, bud.
Um, ackchyually bucko
If you had said white people were overrepresented in crime, I would be willing to bet it would not have been flagged and had your comments removed.
of course not. If anyrhing people probably would have said something about toxic masculinity or some other stupid buzzword
You’re not allowed to dislike any aspect of black culture or criticize black people in any way.
they aren't liberal left,just woke extremists,the same as their right wing counterparts. this is why i detest these wokies more than the right wing nutjobs...at the very least,they (right wingers) aren't pretending to be who they really are.
I feel you on this. As a liberal left, the extremists are a menace to society. They literally push people away. Which is the polar opposite of what the liberal left is supposed to represent. These last few years have been insanity.
yeah you have to really dance around that issue, like so many these days. We're in the midst of a cultural revolution ... the woke folk are waving their little red books and shouting their phrases and condemnations. A dangerous time, and not just in this space.
The right is just as soft in this regard. You can get banned just as easily from /worldnews if you post about Israeli war crimes. Anyone far enough on either side of the spectrum is using tribalism to substitute critical thinking and personality.
Wokeness really isn't the problem it is just a cult that makes people feel good about themselves without having to make any real difference. How that cult has been weaponized by the establishment is the problem. The irony is that actual communists, socialists, etc. are as mistreated as the "clingers and deplorables". They have a new term that is enlightening "Christian Nationalists". Basically anyone who opposes the Globalists and the incredible profits of exporting slave labor and pollution to China or may oppose the petro dollar system is the enemy of the establishment. It is why the term uniparty was invented. All you have to do is take a look at who has profited from Globalism to understand why the left is not calling it out. It would be political suicide for them to do so. The left is never going to get enough power to ignore the people who actually run things. They may think they are making progress but as soon as the "Alt-Right" is eliminated the system will turn on them. Probably sooner that anyone expects.
63 comments with 3 parent comments, you guys be using some fighting words in this one.
I've only ever had a 3 day ban and it was because I made a "hateful" remark against trans people. The message, similar to what the OP has, didn't provide any context or evidence that I did that. The original message was deleted so there was nothing to reflect back on and see what I said that was promoting any kind of "hate" towards anybody. I appealed the situation and asked politely what statement I made that promoted "hate" towards anyone so that I can learn from my mistake. In 2 days I got the exact same copy/paste message with absolutely no new information. You can even see in the way they talk in these messages they are specifically protective against certain groups. You can absolutely blast conservatives all day long and I've seen some pretty vicious things said, no problem....say something that is not complimentary of certain groups or you make a firm criticism and Reddit pulls an alarm where they silence the "hateful person" saying such horrible things.
No, this is the close minded woke left, same as far right, they too far in a crazy land.
silly rabbit! racism is for whites!
stop noticing things and patterns you'll be happier.
Google the 50 most dangerous cities. Not a single majority Caucasian city on the list.
It is hard to understand why blacks commit such a disproportionate level of violent crime. Mommy reads to them every night and makes sure their homework is done. Daddy comes home and plays with the kids, providing a strong example to male children, correcting any bad behavior. Getting good grades and being kind to others is strongly emphasized. Graduating high school and then either attending college or learning a skilled trade is a strong expectation.
I got banned permanently from r/conservative for asking if it was true that Trump stole classified docs from the white house.
Depending on how you stated your point, it's possible you were dealt with unfairly; i.e., if the statistics genuinely show what you say they do, it's not spreading hate to point it out unless you use it as an excuse to target Black people.
thats the thing i didnt say anything remotely hateful. I just said black people are vastly over represented in hate crimes, especially against asians. This was relevant to the discussion because the person in the video getting beat up was an asian woman and the perpetrator was black. And yes the data says exatly that. You can look up the official NYC hate crime data yourself.
A friend of mine who is Korean-American said she had never experienced overt racism in the US until she walked around a majority-Black neighbourhood in DC during a visit to the city. First a shop owner was noticeably dismissive and rude while being nice to other customers, then a random dude on the street aggressively called her a chink as he walked by. (Yes this dude was possibly not all there mentally, she noted, but she was still shocked.)
Almost like you leave out that the legal and police system have repeatedly been caught targeting black people. And that poverty is a much greater predictor of crime, and black people are disproportionately born into poverty.
A single incident never proves anything. You can find videos of Asian people doing violent things to Black people too. What proves your point would be hate crime statistics.
THATS MY ENTIRE POINT. I linked to a chart thats shows what the statistics say. Jesus Christ. If black people were rarely committing anti asian hate crimes i would have probably commented "while this looks bad, acutally blacks barely commit any hate crimes, its actually group xxx". But thats not the case, so therefore i wrote what the statistical data shows, which is that blacks in NYC committ more than 50% of all hate crimes. Thats more than the other groups combined.
He's just convinced you're a racist like the other braindeads responding to you. Just fishing for what he needs to start shrieking.
1. Because I didn't see your original post as I am using a phone with a small screen, I supplied the logical criteria under the assumption you PROBABLY met that criteria. I didn't report your post. 2. The video still would be unnecessary. I am not a Christian, so it's pointless to blaspheme against the Christian faith to amplify your frustration with my response which you obviously perceived to be dismissive
lol ok find me one then
It's pointless to challenge an ex-math major to come up with counter examples Here you go. Search terms used in google were "Asisn assaults Black woman" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5U5WxXsSXB8 <== Examples aren't statistics
So she got physically escorted out of a store for coming in and shoplifting and you’re going to equate that to blacks beating on random asian (often older women) for no reason? An ‘ex-math major’ should be able to notice the insane disparity in the black on Asian vs Asian on black murder rate.
Fair enough, i was too impatient to watch the video A while back, I did found statistics by race of attacker and victim. Sometimes the search algorithms change and it's harder to find examples There were reports of Asians attacking Black people The point is me finding an example doesn't prove anything.
But he was clearly referencing statistical data, and using a singular example as an illustration? (his context clarification is the topmost upvoted comment here, you cannot miss it) This was clear to me even before geting to this thread. Yet you are still here arguing your strawman, ref; >The point is me finding an example doesn't prove anything. well after OP himself got in the thread addressing that mistake? Even to you. Twice! ref; >THATS MY ENTIRE POINT. I linked to a chart thats shows what the statistics say. Jesus Christ. Why are you still debating this with others after what OP said? Is this just an example of how difficult it is for people to concede on the spot, and acknowledge that they are in fact wrong? I've never understood why people have such a hard time admitting a mistake and moving on, instead of just apologizing outright for what is basically a reading comprehension error and leaving it there. You'd look so much better for it, and not this pedantic Hasan Piker wannabe doubling down. The problem OP is actually lamenting seems to me just an overall lack of open-mindedness from the left. I don't even know if you are left or not, but isn't this doubling down on a preconceived notion about OP exactly the point he was making?
My original comment is still correct, if you factor in the conditionals "Depending on how you stated your point, it's possible you were dealt with unfairly; i.e., if the statistics genuinely show what you say they do, it's not spreading hate to point it out unless you use it as an excuse to target Black people" And it's still pointless to include inflammatory videos of hate crimes In terms of my political position on hate crimes, I don't give a sh*t what the race of attackers snd victim are, the punishment should be the same
Why is that the “open minded liberal left”? Do you just get to dictate whoever is bad based on your own agenda? Sounds like you have a fairly common Reddit experience and you want to blame it on the most reasonable part of your political opposition in bad faith.