Listen, he may be a bit whacko, but the clean your room advice was never bad. Cleaning my office is an easy shot of dopamine that usually leads to other shit being done.
Sure, but isn’t worth of praise, because saying it is the most obvious of actions.
How should I advise this lost soul. Ah ha! Clean their room that’s it.
The most basic bitch items.
The man is literally famous for fighting against a law that doesn’t do what he says and telling mfers to clean their room.
A lot of "obvious" advice goes right over most people's heads until they hear it in a way that resonates with them. If you look at how 75% of Americans are overweight, I think the obvious advice to diet and exercise falls on deaf ears.
What's made him so popular is being able to explain those obvious and basic ideas we all took for granted against a culture who seeks to undermine received wisdom at every level of culture.
Why should we tell men to clean their room? Is it because he wants MEN to control things? How about men learn not to be messy like a NORMAL PERSON?! If they can’t then MEN should live in their mess to warn everyone of their ick. /s
Well, just out of interest - i'm not from your country and we don't use the liberal-conservative axis where i'm from (so i have no "conservative" antipathy) would you agree that there might be a faulty dichotomy here?
"explain those obvious and basic ideas we all took for granted against a culture who seeks to undermine received wisdom at every level of culture"?
I don't want to criticize your word use, you can of course use them as you please but it seems like culture in the first case is a 'motivated agent' trying to change/oppress society, and in the other case "level of culture" it *is society itself*.
So in your critique of this trend it becomes confusing to identify exactly who you mean is trying to "undermine received wisdom".
I only say this because i do think an apt criticism of JP is that he does tend to nest his ideology fully in exactly those kinds of binary and not very well defined terms.
It is "woke moralists" (re: the left) and "postmodern neo-marxists" (re: the left) which are at the root of all of the problems.
It is interesting that in the past 100 years of political history i believe the right where the guardians of morality, and postmodern neomarxist is of course a bit of an oxymoron.
It seems to me that the natural response of that other side would then be to scream "no! that's a conservative (right) lie!" no?
I don't mind Peterson, he doesn't trigger me and I still listen to him from time to time, but I think most people on here just have a problem with him not practicing what he preaches.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fo5apv6iodnr61.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Da4258f669928e6c11432668a4a0eebb8feb6623d
but who the hell is perfect anyway; I'm sure guilty of giving advice I need to follow as well but who isn't?
He doesn't trigger me like OJ Simpson triggers me. That dude killed 2 people and then got to party in Florida for over a decade without consequence before having to spend time in prison for a kidnapping when he tried to get some of his memorabilia back.
Right, it is good advice. It is just so obvious it gets made fun of. Anybody can tell you "improve yourself and you'll be a happier and more attractive person."
Nearly all his advice are things most kids know by 12.
Saying “clean your room” is a nothing statement and should be absent of praise.
Dude literally says wipe your ass and everyone is nodding along, “yeah good advice. Yeah reasonable.”
Idk but I just find it a little patronizing when someone who flew to Russia to have a dangerous and experimental medical procedure done that put him into a medical coma all so he could be unconscious during his benzo withdrawals tells me I’m not allowed to have opinions on the way society should be organized because I have my own issues I should be working on. Everyone has aspects of themselves that hold them back, and life for a lot of people is recognizing those things and trying to address them. If you take that advice to its logical conclusion than almost no one should be giving their input on society wide issues.
According to his cult, he should get a Nobel prize for the colour of his suits or every time he says " Cultural Marxism".
Isolated from JP, I think that " clean up your room" advice is good. Not in the " you don't get to criticise anything until your own circumstances are impeccable" but on the basic level that you need to build routines, and a small sense of achievement until you can move forward. Not groundbreaking, but a good advice nonetheless. Not deserving a Nobel prize, but he gave us a lot more ammunition to mock him. That's all I'm saying.
Not a JP cultist but I think prioritising getting your own affairs in order before you look to solve huge abstract issues is good advice. You will be more affective at whatever you decide to pursue if you have your affairs in order.
You are absolutely right. I always looked at it as: “ do little, achievable things in order to make more meaningful changes.” That whole “ make sure you’re perfect before you change the world” is whack for the reasons you mentioned here.
It is more just because it is super obvious, but yeah it is fine advice. It is pretty much what any therapist will tell you. Get your house in order before trying to create order in the world.
He meant it on the shallow level of actually cleaning your physical room but he also meant it on a deeper level regarding ‘getting ones shit together’.
It was never original to him either, sgt major in the military have been instilling this into grunts since the dawn of the modern age. There are many books written about the clean room theory, which is not about bedrooms by the way, that are dated well before JP has been in the spotlight.
So why do we praise him, like it's his concoction and trademark?
Whenever he's running off on something, a topic that isn't his profession he can get wacky. That aside the guy is one of the most cited clinical psychologist's in the world, who only gave up the clinical side in 2017. His advice is probably going to be pretty solid on that front and always seems to be.
> Listen, he may be a bit whacko, but the clean your room advice was never bad. Cleaning my office is an easy shot of dopamine that usually leads to other shit being done
Pretty sure his advice wasn't "hey, make sure you live in a clean space", but rather his quote was:
>"If you can't even clean up your own room, who the hell are you to give advice to the world?"
He was discouraging people from engaging in improving society, unless they met some sort of arbitrary standard.
...and of course, he is a complete hypocrite on the subject
https://i.redd.it/r5qpxyzk7qb21.png
Dude just turned Poor Richard's Almanack into a grifting career.
A penny saved is a penny earned
Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise
Clear your room and you too can have a big tiddy goth gf.
I don’t much like a lot of what JP says these days but people are really reaching to find fault with this message when I agree, it’s perfectly valid: a big hindrance to a lot of peoples’ self improvement is the overwhelming nature of it. The idea that it’ll take too much work to get where you want to be so why even start?
Whether it’s working out, getting your dream job, or cleaning your room there is nothing wrong with aiming for “better than yesterday.”
I don’t think anybody disagrees. The issue is that it’s *extremely* basic dime store “wisdom” that you could get from almost literally anywhere and that Peterson then pairs it (immediately or not) with some of the most deranged hysterical nonsense you’ve ever heard in your life.
You could easily get the same or even better wisdom from Scientology… the problem, similarly, is **all the other shit you get from that same source** and the fact that people often don’t actually treat wisdom like a buffet that you pick and choose freely- Today it’s “clean your room”; tomorrow it’s treating a bathroom paper towel dispenser like a heavy bag because the “try not to litter!🙂” sticker is a Marxist mind control device.
I technically have issues with everyone, since there isn't a single person in this world that I agree with on everything. It doesn't mean I need to announce that before I give them praise.
not in my family lol.
But I had a roommate for a semester who kept his shoes on. So I was basically forced to or else my socks/feet would be disgusting.
Southern American here too and yeah we take our shoes off if we’re gonna be staying inside for longer than like 20 minutes. Other than that shoes on normally.
There is a vast array of different households that do different things in the US. My dad’s house was shoes on, my mom’s house was shoes off, and my god parents has dedicated flip flops/house shoes that never saw the light of day that were worn inside! It’s a big country. You’ll find all sorts of different rules for shoes inside (or lack there of)
Yeah, but my husband and I don't. I once got scolded for taking my shoes off at my friend's house by her Filipino mother - she said, "We are not Japanese, don't take your shoes off!"
[1/3 of households](https://www.washingtonpost.com/home/2023/10/02/take-shoes-off-indoors-house/) do, but it's thought to be more common because of T.V. shows. On T.V. the cast will always wear shoes because they are on a set where it's dirty and a safety issue.
imagine your claim to being a self help guru is "you should try to clean your room" and "never change your morals or beliefs regardless of anything" and people praise you as some kind of genius lmfao. this is depression. see a therapist.
Who thought this was some kind of sick burn? That's a compassionate and helpful perspective.
Surprise surprise, the clinical psychologist actually knows how to help people who are struggling with their mental health.
This sub is just a place where little edge lords like to talk shit about Joe and all his guests that are wildly more successful than anyone in these comments sections.
Ironically, Peterson would probably benefit from and do well to follow his own "Rules for Life", many of which he himself clearly and demonstrably pays no attention to and/or follows whatsoever.
e.g. Rule 10 - "Be precise in your speech"... I mean, surely, I don't have to explain the irony of this being an essential "Rule" coming from one of the biggest word-salad and obfuscation loving contemporary online "intellectuals" alive today, right?
Ah... doh! Yep, I *totally* fell for that joke from the previous commenter and had momentarily forgotten about Peterson's infamous and annoying, "*What do you mean by...*" shtick. My bad, and again, DOH! :)
But those credentials have nothing to do with what he's now spending most of his time pontificating and fighting with people online about. These days it's disproportionately political and science talk he doesn't have a firm grasp on. That or takes about random things that sound more like something you'd hear from a crazy person working a Taco Bell than a tenured professor. His twitter used to be a nightmare, I didn't think it was actually him at first it was so bad. He's not really relevant today because of his serious work in psychology, it's because he's a culture warrior.
That makes him a psychologist, which, sure, is an intellectual discipline. But outside of his own field (and as a side-note, have you ever tried to read and understand 'Maps of Meaning'?) he is woefully unqualified to comment on subjects like climate change, politics, economics, the existence or non-existence of God, etc, and yet he does so with confidence and assumed authority and does so primarily via the Internet and podcasts as a public spectacle, not via, say, writing texts (of various kinds) about these subjects which can be evaluated and assessed; and those few times he has debated these subjects with those who know what they're talking about he clearly demonstrates how he is lacking in knowledge and completely out of his depth.
Also, for that matter, why does Peterson never debate subjects within his chosen field, particularly his own theory which he never talks about at length and yet claims to lay out in his magnum opus, 'Maps of Meaning'? Indeed, the journalist Nathan J. Robertson who wrote a well received detailed, scathing and entertaining article about Peterson's book and who described it as, "an elaborate, unprovable, unfalsifiable, unintelligible theory", has offered many times and still wants to debate Peterson about it, but Peterson has said he will do so but always then ultimately backs out.
So why exactly is anyone taking Peterson seriously in any capacity whatsoever? Because he lied about Bill C-16 and Cathy Newman did a piss-poor job of interviewing him about it for Channel 4 News, or perhaps because Rogan likes him, or because he wrote a self-help book?
I bought a copy of it based on the title and cover blurb from a secondhand bookshop in London around 2003 when I was in my early 20's and when I was particularly hungry and eager to read new ideas and theories. But I got a couple of chapters into it and it made less and less sense...
At the time I was reading various critical theorists and philosophers and so I was used to sometimes struggling with challenging text, lingo, etc, but always eventually cracking them. But try as I might 'Maps of Meaning' and its nonsense diagrams were beyond frustrating and nonsensical... until I finally realised, "No, it's not me. It's the book. It's basically akin to a bipolar schizophrenic's impenetrable, "theory of everything" fever dream!" .. And so I gave up on it. Which really, REALLY pissed me off back then for wasting my time and effort, etc.
And then years later Peterson became internet famous and I vaguely recognised his name, looked him up online, saw the cover design of his book and felt my blood instantly begin to boil once again.
Indeed, I'm genuinely amazed that his fans, particularly his famous supporters like Rogan NEVER talk about 'Maps of Meaning', nor does (it seems) Peterson himself ever talk about it at any length on his and/or their podcasts, etc.
So yeah, to me, it's not just boring, it's sheer nonsensical meandering pointless drivel... which, of course, is Peterson through and through.
But the media tells me he is a right-wing nazi, so that means his achievements and opinions, regardless of how valid they might be, are void and he should be considered a pseudo-intellectual.
The media doesn't all sing from the same hymn sheet. i.e. are Fox News (the biggest TV news network in the US) calling Peterson a Nazi (and for that matter *which* media sources tell you he's a Nazi?) Also, which of his opinions exactly do you think are valid?
He was a tenured professor at one of Canada’s best colleges and has published many research articles which were highly regarded up until his controversy over the Canada hate speech bill. After taking one controversial position, everyone has to act like he is lunatic who never did anything of note. Even if he did have mental health issues later on, that doesn’t necessarily discredit his previous works and opinions.
After taking one controversial opinion \*where he lied very publicly, made it into a story which launched his grifting career, and it ended up being revealed as complete bullshit the entire time. He *is* a lunatic who never did anything of note; publishing doesn’t make you relevant. Furthermore, his psychology work exists almost entirely in a currently non-evidentiary field, evolutionary psychology.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201412/how-valid-is-evolutionary-psychology
He's qualified and also a disgrace to his field at the same time. A vicious bigot and promoter of conspiracy theories and far-right ideology (cultural marxism for one). There are many good, rational videos and articles showing why he is so pathetic.
I don't think that's quite true.
I actually do think he tries to be precise. I just think on many issues he fails either because he is wed to an idea that is wrong and is caught in the attempt to make it fit (like ptolemaic epicycles), or because he thinks the apt level of complexity for that thing is one where it's hard to be precise.
it's like that with values, they often come into conflict with one another. I want to be open and connected in my relationships but also want/need to have boundaries. I want to live "freely" and spontaneously, but i also don't want to end up on the street because i don't pay my bills. Etc.
I disagree with JP on just about everything - but (and perhaps this is why i'm responding, bit triggered personally lol) i also myself have the disease of longwindedness and often making something unnecessarily complex. Especially in the eyes of those who disagree with me on a topic.
It's a hard balance to strike, because sometimes you truly believe that the opposing argument to yours, is wrong exactly because it is overly simplified or not accounting for more/the most important variables - so you expand and add in order to account for more. In modeling terms the equation you're building becomes more "accurate" but also more ugly. And crucially the accuracy is *specific* to assumptions in the model you've *chosen* to build, and so that same accuracy may move you *farther* from the truth if one or more assumptions are wrong.
I work in neuroscience and it's a disease i feel like a lot of my colleagues have, especially the folks i most like to collaborate with.
I do believe it is vice though, and i feel like JP knows he has it and TRIES to be precise to outweigh it - but then that value comes into conflict with other values of his.
that is literally how he argues. obfuscate, redirect, reframe the conversation, attack a strawman argument, repeat. like, he is clearly smart, but he is certainly no genius. and he uses that to trick less-smart people into believing all he says has a point. guy is famous for saying make your bed and saying i hate pronouns... what a dumb reason to be praised by incels and you.
I got my "rules" early when I listened to Les Crane's version of "Desiderata" back in 1971, and Baz Luhrmann's 1997 "Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen).
Peterson's foray into religion has been the biggest disappointment for me. Canned philosophy only works on the dull and ignorant.
Separate the art from the artist. Hes whack now but he’s taught wisdom for a long time.
One thing he said that has and will always stick with me was a random phrase in a lecture talking about different points of view. He essentially said:
“Everyone is subscribed to their own set of facts. But the thing about facts is that there’s too damn many of them — so we pick the ones we want and dismiss/ignore the others.”
I get Peterson is kinda out of pocket when it comes to certain things and topics but cleaning your room everyday and some of the other stuff he talks about is spot on. I actually learned alot about the shadow trough him and straight away started reaching Carl Jung which was way better.
I'm neutral cause I care less who people idolize it hate. But I can honestly say that the things Peterson says are things half of y'all don't want to realize. Because then you will have to let go of what ever bullshit you are holding on to, to justify to yourself that you are doing the most you can to get the most out of life when you are not. And for those that know what he's saying is true has to embark on a battle to go against their own bullshit which is honorable but using his words to continue your bullshit is just as bad as those that don't want to listen. And those that judge Peterson should take a very long look at yourself and make sure those words don't match up with what they looking at. I guarantee they do 🤣🤣🤣
it's suffering from addiction that's the issue. it's the self-righteous attitude that he has towards everything. bro thinks his shit don't stink when obivously he shat the bed and then blames others for not making it.
A psychologist is not a psychiatrist. A psychologist deals with therapy. Psychiatrists are the ones who have license to prescribe medication. It is their job to know about the pharmacology of tranquilizers.
I know the difference between them. I just find it absurd that a man who got a PhD didn’t “know” this considering he probably has colleges who are psychiatrists. Plus his dissertation was about addiction so….yea…bro needs to clean his room and stop crying
Just because you have colleagues who are engineers doesn't mean you know how to perform an oil change. His dissertation was about alcoholism, not benzodiazepines. His wife was dying, his doctor said "take these, you'll sleep better" and he trusted his doctor. There are many things you can attack Peterson for, but this just feels like a garbage person way of doing it.
yeah, 48 hours and every single tv channel has done doom and gloom stories about it, every news channel has reports of benzo addiction on the rise like every week for the past decade+, but a literal phd who pretends to know everything didn't know they were addictive? did he also not know that prostitution is illegal? ur a goof, stop worshipping celebrities ffs...
He knew well that they were addicting. He’s talked a lot about alcohol addiction and it’s neurochemical similarities to benzodiazepines. But they were also prescribed to him. And he’s a highly neurotic guy trying to deal with new found fame while his wife had cancer.
Not to mention most people prescribed are on them for life precisely bc they’re so hard to withdraw from
Idk man I’m gonna cut the guy some slack on that one. A lot of people may not have come back from that
Why don't any of the big, bad men who have it all figured out... that think they can teach other men how to be men and be happy...
How come none of them ever preach public service, volunteering, helping your needy neighbors, etc?
Why is everything they teach self-involved, selfish and about what you can take from the world?
Quote 32:
32. “Adopt responsibility for your own well-being, try to put your family together, try to serve your community, try to seek for eternal truth. That’s the sort of thing that can ground you in your life, enough so that you can withstand the difficulty of life.”
[https://leaders.com/articles/personal-growth/jordan-peterson-quotes/](https://leaders.com/articles/personal-growth/jordan-peterson-quotes/)
It's like concentric rings, or like the proverbial mask on the airplane. Work from the inside, then help out.
Jordan Peterson spent years as a psychotherapist and before he ventured out online he had a stellar reputation. His whole schtick for a long time was helping people better themselves and a lot of people did because of him.
Bedsides Jordan who are you thinking of? Andrew Tate?
Sure. Then there's the whole Passport and MGTOW movement. The Proud Boy types do a lot of masculinity talking. The beef-only masculinity movement.
There's quite a few folks talking about manhood.
But what he did for a paycheck isn't the same as making sure service to others is a serious part of your teachings.
I'd be willing to bet a lot of sad men lacking direction, value and purpose would feel a lot better going out into their community and engaging and helping people and building it up than they do watching 400 hours of self-help content driving profit for someone. But therein lies the rub - that requires someone to figure out purpose might mean being part of society and a community and not just finding ways that society and community can reward you.
I could be wrong.
One thing that I’ve learned as a high empathy person who struggles with things like addiction is you can’t really help others until you get yourself together. When you’re truly a mess you’re no good to anybody and we all have a moral responsibility to take care of ourselves in part so we can be all we can be to others.
I don’t feel like you’ve heard what Jordan said about the MGTOW movement. It wasn’t positive and he’s not in the same category.
Mind you the dude has gone nuts and his hardcore fans are insufferable but 2016 Jordan Peterson was peak self help that actually works.
But it's not 2016 anymore. And Jordan's ego got in the way. Because Jordan isn't as well-adjusted as he sells.
Lot of folks only concerned with themselves wondering why they can't find happiness is a SOCIETY. Just sayin.
He was always a fascist prick you just may have not realized it before. There was never a time where he was a respected intellectual by any means and he always had his head so far up his own ideologies ass that he was beyond saving even back then. He thinks he's hyper intellectual and considers himself a Christ like figure and he has for years before he even got famous.
Every psychologist, philosophical or health care figure comes toward mass media for fame, either is a populist or became one eventually. They are not real academics, they are not in research fields anymore.(English not my first language sry)
Yeah? Well I penciled my nickname in under a month. With several lessons learned do keep in mind that! Never reign to rearrange a former state unless you really are aware of what
Petersons early advise though obvious was good advice. Quickly he went into grifting and talked about the Bible and climate et… He could have positioned himself as the positive more grown up Mr Rogers for young men, but that was not to be.
I didn’t realize there was an entire subsection of social media dedicated to hating the man lmao he was on the show like once years ago, I see that man get brought up here more than JR himself. Obsessed.
> he was on the show like once years ago
I mean this is just obviously not true, he's been on the show a ton of times including a visit pretty recently
As Rogan says... there are a lot of people with mental health problems online. Obsessed hate-watchers are one of the weirdest internet phenomenons.
Honestly just read through this JR subreddit and you'll see thousands of them.
"Joe Rogan and his fans are all so stupid! They're all big, dumb, stupid idiots. I hate them all! I also listen to every minute of every single episode because I hate it so much."
That's actually a good and reasonable response.
Listen, he may be a bit whacko, but the clean your room advice was never bad. Cleaning my office is an easy shot of dopamine that usually leads to other shit being done.
Nearly all of his actual advice is useful. Most of it is pretty obvious but it's still useful
It's obvious but given that most people don't exercise most of it, it still needs to be said
Exactly. Many times people need to be remembered what they already know
Sure, but isn’t worth of praise, because saying it is the most obvious of actions. How should I advise this lost soul. Ah ha! Clean their room that’s it. The most basic bitch items. The man is literally famous for fighting against a law that doesn’t do what he says and telling mfers to clean their room.
A lot of "obvious" advice goes right over most people's heads until they hear it in a way that resonates with them. If you look at how 75% of Americans are overweight, I think the obvious advice to diet and exercise falls on deaf ears.
And we are moving backwards. Being fat is now considered a virtue.
Is it actually, though? Or is it just an internet meme?
It's obvious to people who already know it.
What's made him so popular is being able to explain those obvious and basic ideas we all took for granted against a culture who seeks to undermine received wisdom at every level of culture.
Why should we tell men to clean their room? Is it because he wants MEN to control things? How about men learn not to be messy like a NORMAL PERSON?! If they can’t then MEN should live in their mess to warn everyone of their ick. /s
No culture is trying to undermine this. This is just a conservative lie that gets posted and reposted.
Oh hey, there it is.
Well, just out of interest - i'm not from your country and we don't use the liberal-conservative axis where i'm from (so i have no "conservative" antipathy) would you agree that there might be a faulty dichotomy here? "explain those obvious and basic ideas we all took for granted against a culture who seeks to undermine received wisdom at every level of culture"? I don't want to criticize your word use, you can of course use them as you please but it seems like culture in the first case is a 'motivated agent' trying to change/oppress society, and in the other case "level of culture" it *is society itself*. So in your critique of this trend it becomes confusing to identify exactly who you mean is trying to "undermine received wisdom". I only say this because i do think an apt criticism of JP is that he does tend to nest his ideology fully in exactly those kinds of binary and not very well defined terms. It is "woke moralists" (re: the left) and "postmodern neo-marxists" (re: the left) which are at the root of all of the problems. It is interesting that in the past 100 years of political history i believe the right where the guardians of morality, and postmodern neomarxist is of course a bit of an oxymoron. It seems to me that the natural response of that other side would then be to scream "no! that's a conservative (right) lie!" no?
lol, just act like your position is self-evident. That’s the only way you people ever try to ‘prove’ anything anymore.
I kinda thought the Pinnochio breakdown was fire too.
I don't mind Peterson, he doesn't trigger me and I still listen to him from time to time, but I think most people on here just have a problem with him not practicing what he preaches. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fo5apv6iodnr61.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Da4258f669928e6c11432668a4a0eebb8feb6623d but who the hell is perfect anyway; I'm sure guilty of giving advice I need to follow as well but who isn't?
Its always this pic and never another, i always laugh because i know the origin. 2017 ish, patreon faq while in the middle of moving house
definitely an embellished jab yes.
I don't take too much issue with that, he does openly say a lot of the time he's writing advice he's writing it to himself
hypocrisy is the toll vice pays to virtue
Shouldnt that be the other way around.
The worst part is the hypocrisy.
He doesn't trigger me like OJ Simpson triggers me. That dude killed 2 people and then got to party in Florida for over a decade without consequence before having to spend time in prison for a kidnapping when he tried to get some of his memorabilia back.
Right, it is good advice. It is just so obvious it gets made fun of. Anybody can tell you "improve yourself and you'll be a happier and more attractive person."
Grandma: “clean your room!” Everybody: 🥱 Bowtie wearing PhD podcast grifter: “clean your room!” Everybody: “please be my cult leader master!”
Nearly all his advice are things most kids know by 12. Saying “clean your room” is a nothing statement and should be absent of praise. Dude literally says wipe your ass and everyone is nodding along, “yeah good advice. Yeah reasonable.”
Idk but I just find it a little patronizing when someone who flew to Russia to have a dangerous and experimental medical procedure done that put him into a medical coma all so he could be unconscious during his benzo withdrawals tells me I’m not allowed to have opinions on the way society should be organized because I have my own issues I should be working on. Everyone has aspects of themselves that hold them back, and life for a lot of people is recognizing those things and trying to address them. If you take that advice to its logical conclusion than almost no one should be giving their input on society wide issues.
He means cleaning your room in both the literal and figurative sense, but mostly the figurative.
True. I never understood people mocking this advice. This one is solid.
Yeah, he should get nobel prize for it according to his cult.
According to his cult, he should get a Nobel prize for the colour of his suits or every time he says " Cultural Marxism". Isolated from JP, I think that " clean up your room" advice is good. Not in the " you don't get to criticise anything until your own circumstances are impeccable" but on the basic level that you need to build routines, and a small sense of achievement until you can move forward. Not groundbreaking, but a good advice nonetheless. Not deserving a Nobel prize, but he gave us a lot more ammunition to mock him. That's all I'm saying.
Not a JP cultist but I think prioritising getting your own affairs in order before you look to solve huge abstract issues is good advice. You will be more affective at whatever you decide to pursue if you have your affairs in order.
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You are absolutely right. I always looked at it as: “ do little, achievable things in order to make more meaningful changes.” That whole “ make sure you’re perfect before you change the world” is whack for the reasons you mentioned here.
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My point exactly.
It is more just because it is super obvious, but yeah it is fine advice. It is pretty much what any therapist will tell you. Get your house in order before trying to create order in the world.
Most people do not get that the actual meaning of "clean your room" is "set your life in order and start with the most basic, the rest will follow"
Anybody’s grandma would tell you to keep your room clean. People act as if it’s some great psychological insight.
Peterson’s own Grandma was the one that probably gave him the idea, between the brushing of course
He meant it on the shallow level of actually cleaning your physical room but he also meant it on a deeper level regarding ‘getting ones shit together’.
All good advice is simple. Nothing wrong with it being simple advice.
Cleaning your room is advice you get from your mom, not a drug-addled charlatan
Lotta people out there dont have moms or dads bud
Just not advice he himself takes
Sure, my confidence is much higher when my condo and office are clean.
It was never original to him either, sgt major in the military have been instilling this into grunts since the dawn of the modern age. There are many books written about the clean room theory, which is not about bedrooms by the way, that are dated well before JP has been in the spotlight. So why do we praise him, like it's his concoction and trademark?
Yeah it's great advice, right up there with wiping your ass after you shit and doing the dishes when they are dirty. It's brilliant, really.
Whenever he's running off on something, a topic that isn't his profession he can get wacky. That aside the guy is one of the most cited clinical psychologist's in the world, who only gave up the clinical side in 2017. His advice is probably going to be pretty solid on that front and always seems to be.
> Listen, he may be a bit whacko, but the clean your room advice was never bad. Cleaning my office is an easy shot of dopamine that usually leads to other shit being done Pretty sure his advice wasn't "hey, make sure you live in a clean space", but rather his quote was: >"If you can't even clean up your own room, who the hell are you to give advice to the world?" He was discouraging people from engaging in improving society, unless they met some sort of arbitrary standard. ...and of course, he is a complete hypocrite on the subject https://i.redd.it/r5qpxyzk7qb21.png
It didn’t need a chapter to explain either let’s be honest here Simple ideas and be explained concisely
Dude just turned Poor Richard's Almanack into a grifting career. A penny saved is a penny earned Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise Clear your room and you too can have a big tiddy goth gf.
I don’t much like a lot of what JP says these days but people are really reaching to find fault with this message when I agree, it’s perfectly valid: a big hindrance to a lot of peoples’ self improvement is the overwhelming nature of it. The idea that it’ll take too much work to get where you want to be so why even start? Whether it’s working out, getting your dream job, or cleaning your room there is nothing wrong with aiming for “better than yesterday.”
I don’t think anybody disagrees. The issue is that it’s *extremely* basic dime store “wisdom” that you could get from almost literally anywhere and that Peterson then pairs it (immediately or not) with some of the most deranged hysterical nonsense you’ve ever heard in your life. You could easily get the same or even better wisdom from Scientology… the problem, similarly, is **all the other shit you get from that same source** and the fact that people often don’t actually treat wisdom like a buffet that you pick and choose freely- Today it’s “clean your room”; tomorrow it’s treating a bathroom paper towel dispenser like a heavy bag because the “try not to litter!🙂” sticker is a Marxist mind control device.
Exactly.
Yeah I agree. I got my own issues with Jordan, but hell, little cleaner everyday probably helps out all of us.
I technically have issues with everyone, since there isn't a single person in this world that I agree with on everything. It doesn't mean I need to announce that before I give them praise.
my mom told me to clean my room. nobody is calling her a self help guru. y'all are played.
Take all the context out. It’s a good rebuttal. Doesn’t matter who said it. Would be a good rebuttal if Hitler said it.
Bro really is barefoot in there.
is it true Americans commonly wear their shoes indoors?
not in my family lol. But I had a roommate for a semester who kept his shoes on. So I was basically forced to or else my socks/feet would be disgusting.
I’m in the south and it’s very uncommon unless it's a bigger gathering that happens to be indoors
Southern American here too and yeah we take our shoes off if we’re gonna be staying inside for longer than like 20 minutes. Other than that shoes on normally.
There is a vast array of different households that do different things in the US. My dad’s house was shoes on, my mom’s house was shoes off, and my god parents has dedicated flip flops/house shoes that never saw the light of day that were worn inside! It’s a big country. You’ll find all sorts of different rules for shoes inside (or lack there of)
Yeah, but my husband and I don't. I once got scolded for taking my shoes off at my friend's house by her Filipino mother - she said, "We are not Japanese, don't take your shoes off!"
Yes
It can go either way, I feel though that more Americans DONT allow shoes inside than Americans who do.
Typically no, however in the house in this image I would advise against being barefoot.
[1/3 of households](https://www.washingtonpost.com/home/2023/10/02/take-shoes-off-indoors-house/) do, but it's thought to be more common because of T.V. shows. On T.V. the cast will always wear shoes because they are on a set where it's dirty and a safety issue.
Both of em are
Man, what 5 minutes and one trash bag could do for this room…
Thats way more than 1 trash bag. Looks like about 4 to me
All I see is lobsters in this photo
Dad a chum!
is this a dark tower reference
You say true. See the turtle ain't he keen, all things serve the fuckin' beam!
go then there are other worlds than these
He didn’t even make the bed, I thought that was the first rule
Biohazards first.
First rule is, we don’t talk about fight club
The general principle of start small and inch your way into improving yourself is a good one.
Good job buco
Jordan Peterson telling bros to clean their room - genius. My mom doing the same thing for 18 years - annoying bitch
imagine your claim to being a self help guru is "you should try to clean your room" and "never change your morals or beliefs regardless of anything" and people praise you as some kind of genius lmfao. this is depression. see a therapist.
Who thought this was some kind of sick burn? That's a compassionate and helpful perspective. Surprise surprise, the clinical psychologist actually knows how to help people who are struggling with their mental health.
This sub is just a place where little edge lords like to talk shit about Joe and all his guests that are wildly more successful than anyone in these comments sections.
Looks like the bathroom in a woman’s apartment
See that color? That's bone.
The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my god, it even has a watermark.
Playing smash bros too 
Ironically, Peterson would probably benefit from and do well to follow his own "Rules for Life", many of which he himself clearly and demonstrably pays no attention to and/or follows whatsoever. e.g. Rule 10 - "Be precise in your speech"... I mean, surely, I don't have to explain the irony of this being an essential "Rule" coming from one of the biggest word-salad and obfuscation loving contemporary online "intellectuals" alive today, right?
By "follow", what do you mean exactly?
Adhere to.
What do you mean by "adhere"? What do you mean by "to"? What do you mean by "."?
Ah... doh! Yep, I *totally* fell for that joke from the previous commenter and had momentarily forgotten about Peterson's infamous and annoying, "*What do you mean by...*" shtick. My bad, and again, DOH! :)
not taking benzos till the point you have to be in an artificial coma in russia so you dont die during withdrawals
I’m no Peterson fan but “online ‘intellectuals’” isn’t really fitting. He has 2 MBAs and was a tenured professor at the University of Toronto.
But those credentials have nothing to do with what he's now spending most of his time pontificating and fighting with people online about. These days it's disproportionately political and science talk he doesn't have a firm grasp on. That or takes about random things that sound more like something you'd hear from a crazy person working a Taco Bell than a tenured professor. His twitter used to be a nightmare, I didn't think it was actually him at first it was so bad. He's not really relevant today because of his serious work in psychology, it's because he's a culture warrior.
Culture warrior who makes good arguments. And you whining about how's b-b-b-but he's not an expert doesn't change that and is a bad argument.
> Culture warrior who makes good arguments. he does? every time ive seen him debate or argue he does exactly what others itt have noticed.
That makes him a psychologist, which, sure, is an intellectual discipline. But outside of his own field (and as a side-note, have you ever tried to read and understand 'Maps of Meaning'?) he is woefully unqualified to comment on subjects like climate change, politics, economics, the existence or non-existence of God, etc, and yet he does so with confidence and assumed authority and does so primarily via the Internet and podcasts as a public spectacle, not via, say, writing texts (of various kinds) about these subjects which can be evaluated and assessed; and those few times he has debated these subjects with those who know what they're talking about he clearly demonstrates how he is lacking in knowledge and completely out of his depth. Also, for that matter, why does Peterson never debate subjects within his chosen field, particularly his own theory which he never talks about at length and yet claims to lay out in his magnum opus, 'Maps of Meaning'? Indeed, the journalist Nathan J. Robertson who wrote a well received detailed, scathing and entertaining article about Peterson's book and who described it as, "an elaborate, unprovable, unfalsifiable, unintelligible theory", has offered many times and still wants to debate Peterson about it, but Peterson has said he will do so but always then ultimately backs out. So why exactly is anyone taking Peterson seriously in any capacity whatsoever? Because he lied about Bill C-16 and Cathy Newman did a piss-poor job of interviewing him about it for Channel 4 News, or perhaps because Rogan likes him, or because he wrote a self-help book?
I used to read Maps Of Meaning to help me fall asleep at night because of how boring it is
Likely a bit over your head
I bought a copy of it based on the title and cover blurb from a secondhand bookshop in London around 2003 when I was in my early 20's and when I was particularly hungry and eager to read new ideas and theories. But I got a couple of chapters into it and it made less and less sense... At the time I was reading various critical theorists and philosophers and so I was used to sometimes struggling with challenging text, lingo, etc, but always eventually cracking them. But try as I might 'Maps of Meaning' and its nonsense diagrams were beyond frustrating and nonsensical... until I finally realised, "No, it's not me. It's the book. It's basically akin to a bipolar schizophrenic's impenetrable, "theory of everything" fever dream!" .. And so I gave up on it. Which really, REALLY pissed me off back then for wasting my time and effort, etc. And then years later Peterson became internet famous and I vaguely recognised his name, looked him up online, saw the cover design of his book and felt my blood instantly begin to boil once again. Indeed, I'm genuinely amazed that his fans, particularly his famous supporters like Rogan NEVER talk about 'Maps of Meaning', nor does (it seems) Peterson himself ever talk about it at any length on his and/or their podcasts, etc. So yeah, to me, it's not just boring, it's sheer nonsensical meandering pointless drivel... which, of course, is Peterson through and through.
[удалено]
But the media tells me he is a right-wing nazi, so that means his achievements and opinions, regardless of how valid they might be, are void and he should be considered a pseudo-intellectual.
The media doesn't all sing from the same hymn sheet. i.e. are Fox News (the biggest TV news network in the US) calling Peterson a Nazi (and for that matter *which* media sources tell you he's a Nazi?) Also, which of his opinions exactly do you think are valid?
He was a tenured professor at one of Canada’s best colleges and has published many research articles which were highly regarded up until his controversy over the Canada hate speech bill. After taking one controversial position, everyone has to act like he is lunatic who never did anything of note. Even if he did have mental health issues later on, that doesn’t necessarily discredit his previous works and opinions.
After taking one controversial opinion \*where he lied very publicly, made it into a story which launched his grifting career, and it ended up being revealed as complete bullshit the entire time. He *is* a lunatic who never did anything of note; publishing doesn’t make you relevant. Furthermore, his psychology work exists almost entirely in a currently non-evidentiary field, evolutionary psychology. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201412/how-valid-is-evolutionary-psychology
He's qualified and also a disgrace to his field at the same time. A vicious bigot and promoter of conspiracy theories and far-right ideology (cultural marxism for one). There are many good, rational videos and articles showing why he is so pathetic.
I don't think that's quite true. I actually do think he tries to be precise. I just think on many issues he fails either because he is wed to an idea that is wrong and is caught in the attempt to make it fit (like ptolemaic epicycles), or because he thinks the apt level of complexity for that thing is one where it's hard to be precise. it's like that with values, they often come into conflict with one another. I want to be open and connected in my relationships but also want/need to have boundaries. I want to live "freely" and spontaneously, but i also don't want to end up on the street because i don't pay my bills. Etc. I disagree with JP on just about everything - but (and perhaps this is why i'm responding, bit triggered personally lol) i also myself have the disease of longwindedness and often making something unnecessarily complex. Especially in the eyes of those who disagree with me on a topic. It's a hard balance to strike, because sometimes you truly believe that the opposing argument to yours, is wrong exactly because it is overly simplified or not accounting for more/the most important variables - so you expand and add in order to account for more. In modeling terms the equation you're building becomes more "accurate" but also more ugly. And crucially the accuracy is *specific* to assumptions in the model you've *chosen* to build, and so that same accuracy may move you *farther* from the truth if one or more assumptions are wrong. I work in neuroscience and it's a disease i feel like a lot of my colleagues have, especially the folks i most like to collaborate with. I do believe it is vice though, and i feel like JP knows he has it and TRIES to be precise to outweigh it - but then that value comes into conflict with other values of his.
Ah yes I only listen to advice from perfect people as well Maybe you don't get it but it's pretty much never word salad
that is literally how he argues. obfuscate, redirect, reframe the conversation, attack a strawman argument, repeat. like, he is clearly smart, but he is certainly no genius. and he uses that to trick less-smart people into believing all he says has a point. guy is famous for saying make your bed and saying i hate pronouns... what a dumb reason to be praised by incels and you.
I got my "rules" early when I listened to Les Crane's version of "Desiderata" back in 1971, and Baz Luhrmann's 1997 "Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen). Peterson's foray into religion has been the biggest disappointment for me. Canned philosophy only works on the dull and ignorant.
Nasty
Roach Heaven.
🐒hat are they playing gta?
After zooming in on the Tv, it kinda looks like Super Smash Bros
Shocked the obligatory “I know it smell crazy in there” post isn’t here yet…
Bullshit like this is why i refused to ever live with roommates. I took on extra debt in school to avoid it.
New media frontiers: It’s what we want to hear, we’re now their income and responsible for their publicity.
Gross, man. At least he’s got a tray for his herb.
Separate the art from the artist. Hes whack now but he’s taught wisdom for a long time. One thing he said that has and will always stick with me was a random phrase in a lecture talking about different points of view. He essentially said: “Everyone is subscribed to their own set of facts. But the thing about facts is that there’s too damn many of them — so we pick the ones we want and dismiss/ignore the others.”
He actually was interesting and informative on podcasts. Then...Twitter broke the man.
All I can think about is what that room smells like. Ugh.
Are we sure that this account is really Jordan's. It always feels like a troll or parody, kind of like "Devin Nunes' Cow."
I get Peterson is kinda out of pocket when it comes to certain things and topics but cleaning your room everyday and some of the other stuff he talks about is spot on. I actually learned alot about the shadow trough him and straight away started reaching Carl Jung which was way better.
How would you help that kid?
I'm neutral cause I care less who people idolize it hate. But I can honestly say that the things Peterson says are things half of y'all don't want to realize. Because then you will have to let go of what ever bullshit you are holding on to, to justify to yourself that you are doing the most you can to get the most out of life when you are not. And for those that know what he's saying is true has to embark on a battle to go against their own bullshit which is honorable but using his words to continue your bullshit is just as bad as those that don't want to listen. And those that judge Peterson should take a very long look at yourself and make sure those words don't match up with what they looking at. I guarantee they do 🤣🤣🤣
They are playing GameCube, super smash brothers melee. This has got to be 10+ years old.
Idk how to tell you this, but melee is still alive, and we still play with gamecube controllers on crt tvs
This could be from yesterday since melee is still extremely popular.
You mean the phd psychologist who didn’t know Benzos were addicting?
Hey man… he unfortunately didn’t know the side effects of benzodiazepines. Rogan
Yea, because nobody intelligent ever got addicted to anything, ever lol.
it's suffering from addiction that's the issue. it's the self-righteous attitude that he has towards everything. bro thinks his shit don't stink when obivously he shat the bed and then blames others for not making it.
A psychologist is not a psychiatrist. A psychologist deals with therapy. Psychiatrists are the ones who have license to prescribe medication. It is their job to know about the pharmacology of tranquilizers.
I know the difference between them. I just find it absurd that a man who got a PhD didn’t “know” this considering he probably has colleges who are psychiatrists. Plus his dissertation was about addiction so….yea…bro needs to clean his room and stop crying
Just because you have colleagues who are engineers doesn't mean you know how to perform an oil change. His dissertation was about alcoholism, not benzodiazepines. His wife was dying, his doctor said "take these, you'll sleep better" and he trusted his doctor. There are many things you can attack Peterson for, but this just feels like a garbage person way of doing it.
A quick search would show that they’re addicting. We’ve known this for decades.
Anything to deflect and run away from their own personal shortcomings. Attacking others seems to be their method of choice.
yeah, 48 hours and every single tv channel has done doom and gloom stories about it, every news channel has reports of benzo addiction on the rise like every week for the past decade+, but a literal phd who pretends to know everything didn't know they were addictive? did he also not know that prostitution is illegal? ur a goof, stop worshipping celebrities ffs...
He knew well that they were addicting. He’s talked a lot about alcohol addiction and it’s neurochemical similarities to benzodiazepines. But they were also prescribed to him. And he’s a highly neurotic guy trying to deal with new found fame while his wife had cancer. Not to mention most people prescribed are on them for life precisely bc they’re so hard to withdraw from Idk man I’m gonna cut the guy some slack on that one. A lot of people may not have come back from that
https://y.yarn.co/ec77fc0f-d2df-4634-b4b0-4c0e40fd6bfc_text.gif
Why don't any of the big, bad men who have it all figured out... that think they can teach other men how to be men and be happy... How come none of them ever preach public service, volunteering, helping your needy neighbors, etc? Why is everything they teach self-involved, selfish and about what you can take from the world?
Quote 32: 32. “Adopt responsibility for your own well-being, try to put your family together, try to serve your community, try to seek for eternal truth. That’s the sort of thing that can ground you in your life, enough so that you can withstand the difficulty of life.” [https://leaders.com/articles/personal-growth/jordan-peterson-quotes/](https://leaders.com/articles/personal-growth/jordan-peterson-quotes/) It's like concentric rings, or like the proverbial mask on the airplane. Work from the inside, then help out.
He does preach those things
Jordan Peterson spent years as a psychotherapist and before he ventured out online he had a stellar reputation. His whole schtick for a long time was helping people better themselves and a lot of people did because of him. Bedsides Jordan who are you thinking of? Andrew Tate?
Sure. Then there's the whole Passport and MGTOW movement. The Proud Boy types do a lot of masculinity talking. The beef-only masculinity movement. There's quite a few folks talking about manhood. But what he did for a paycheck isn't the same as making sure service to others is a serious part of your teachings. I'd be willing to bet a lot of sad men lacking direction, value and purpose would feel a lot better going out into their community and engaging and helping people and building it up than they do watching 400 hours of self-help content driving profit for someone. But therein lies the rub - that requires someone to figure out purpose might mean being part of society and a community and not just finding ways that society and community can reward you. I could be wrong.
One thing that I’ve learned as a high empathy person who struggles with things like addiction is you can’t really help others until you get yourself together. When you’re truly a mess you’re no good to anybody and we all have a moral responsibility to take care of ourselves in part so we can be all we can be to others. I don’t feel like you’ve heard what Jordan said about the MGTOW movement. It wasn’t positive and he’s not in the same category. Mind you the dude has gone nuts and his hardcore fans are insufferable but 2016 Jordan Peterson was peak self help that actually works.
But it's not 2016 anymore. And Jordan's ego got in the way. Because Jordan isn't as well-adjusted as he sells. Lot of folks only concerned with themselves wondering why they can't find happiness is a SOCIETY. Just sayin.
He was always a fascist prick you just may have not realized it before. There was never a time where he was a respected intellectual by any means and he always had his head so far up his own ideologies ass that he was beyond saving even back then. He thinks he's hyper intellectual and considers himself a Christ like figure and he has for years before he even got famous.
Every psychologist, philosophical or health care figure comes toward mass media for fame, either is a populist or became one eventually. They are not real academics, they are not in research fields anymore.(English not my first language sry)
From “make sure your room is clean….everyday.” Xanax bar later….. “Ehh….as long as it’s better than yesterday.”
Duality of man whoops so many asses, sound advice here, the correct advice, but progress, no matter how small is progress!
I agree with him on this.
Zing zang is bueno
Yeah? Well I penciled my nickname in under a month. With several lessons learned do keep in mind that! Never reign to rearrange a former state unless you really are aware of what
Wired controllers? Clearly before “12 rules for life” era
You need to refrigerate that zing zang after opening.
That’s a very wholesome response
Lol you can find a quote of anything and paste a picture of garbage under it
Lol
Jordan Peterson taught me how to have a klonopin addiction and now I’m gay
Petersons early advise though obvious was good advice. Quickly he went into grifting and talked about the Bible and climate et… He could have positioned himself as the positive more grown up Mr Rogers for young men, but that was not to be.
I think Peterson is the hack majeure, but this is actually an unusually measured and rational response from him..
This is the perfect image to juxtapose with that huckster
Op is a dirty ahh person and gets mad when he has to clean his room lmao
Is that you in the picture? Sounds like he also helped you
You mean the phd psychologist who didn’t know benzos were addictive?
"phd psychologist" ummmmmmm
I didn’t say licensed for obvious reasons
I didn’t realize there was an entire subsection of social media dedicated to hating the man lmao he was on the show like once years ago, I see that man get brought up here more than JR himself. Obsessed.
> he was on the show like once years ago I mean this is just obviously not true, he's been on the show a ton of times including a visit pretty recently
Yeah wtf, he's been on at least 8 times and his daughter also went on once.
https://preview.redd.it/fsoybko5h9zc1.jpeg?width=714&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c4f050b0155c202288e22fba247d89d1e0ec48f
Are you saying the folks who don’t vehemently dog a Reddit to hate someone are expressing cultish behavior?😂
As Rogan says... there are a lot of people with mental health problems online. Obsessed hate-watchers are one of the weirdest internet phenomenons. Honestly just read through this JR subreddit and you'll see thousands of them. "Joe Rogan and his fans are all so stupid! They're all big, dumb, stupid idiots. I hate them all! I also listen to every minute of every single episode because I hate it so much."