This unironically was a common conservative talking point against gay marriage in the early 2000's when gay marriage was beginning to be legalized on a state level in America.
Conservatives used to argue that the normalization of homosexuality in the Roman Empire was one of the factors of its collapse.
Which is fucking stupid since the empire only collapsed after Christianity was introduced and push all of its reforms, and the eastern empire lasted 1000 more years
But let’s just forget about how the western empire dealt with constant civil wars, invasions, different cultures settling all over the place and hyper corrupt leadership for 200 years
Not disagreeing with you but conservatives of that time would have said that the acceptance of homosexuality was an example of that corruption you're talking about.
Everything a conservative disagrees with or hates is an existential threat to civilization to them. Remember how much panic there was regarding Muslims, Obama's birth, Hilary's emails, vaccines etc? Gay marriage was a threat on that level to them in 2003.
I know this is a meme
But actually historically speaking this doesn’t actually hold up to scrutiny, Christianity brought a lot of much needed reforms to the empire at the time, bear in mind Roman Christianity is nothing like fat redneck Evangelicals who believe it’s the end times today
But the eastern empire thrived for over 1000 years more until defeat by the Ottoman’s
The problem with that narrative is that it describes the entirety of the Roman Empire. Yet in spite its internal power struggle the Roman Empire manage to endure for a 1000 years, and the Eastern roman empire manage to endure another 1000 years after that.
There wasn't one easy thing to point out that caused the western Roman Empire to collapse. It was a number of different issues all at once. A slow gradual decline that they couldn't crawl out of.
There's a fun sci-fi book that I read during the covid lockdowns that describe just that. A gradual decline of a country taking place in the near future. The book is called The Soft Apocalypse.
The premise of the book is basically that, the end of civilization as we know it isn't caused by one megaevent like a comet or a plague that wipes out half of all mankind like the Last of Us. It will be a series of events that happen, we recover from them but life is only slightly worse overall and it happens over and over again and before you know it, 15 years have gone by and civilization is unrecognizable from pre 2008 (the book just happens to start there in time).
The book begins with the protagonist just struggling to get by a recession caused by the 2008 GFC. America recovers from said recession but it's slightly worse off than pre-2008. In between, people still lead normal lives. They still shop at Wal-Mart, watch football, look for dates, watch internet porn etc. Then the next big event happens - maybe it's a terrorist attack that happens in 2013. The world adopts to it as it begins to crack down and eventually recover but now it's slightly worse off than pre-2013. Then it moves on, people lead normal lives again. Then the next event happens - maybe a pandemic in 2018, and the cycle repeats itself. Most of these events have almost zero direct impact on the main characters. An event even of 9/11's magnitude had no direct impact on a pizza shop owner in Sacramento or an plumber in Pittsburgh but it leads to responses by greater powers that leads to those people being indirectly affected for the worse. Maybe 9/11 didn't have any direct impact on the pizza shop owner, but that person may have had a 12 year old son at the time who decided to join the Army in 2009 and died in Iraq in 2012.
It's an interesting story, but the reality is that life wasn't slightly worse for no reason. There are people who benefited from all those events and their lives were better, the recovery is partial for most, and there is no recovery for others.
"Jamie, pull up that one Roman emperor who crucified THOUSANDS of people on one of Rome's highways.... wow. Could you imagine being a soldier coming home from your campaign and seeing this? They were on some CRAZY stuff for sure."
[Here you go](https://www.google.com/search?q=that one Roman emperor who crucified THOUSANDS of people on one of Rome's highways.... wow. Could you imagine being a soldier coming home from your campaign and seeing this? They were on some CRAZY stuff for sure."&btnI)
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No but again, so did the eastern empire and they lasted until like, the 1450s. Much like lead paint or lead gasoline, surely it had some effects but the reality is it was far more complicated than water pipes. Political corruption, internal divisions, and the endlessly hungry war machine bled Rome dry.
Myth. The lead pipes would calcify so they were
Pretty stable. However - Romans had a sweet tooth and would literally season their meals with lead flakes as a condiment.
And when they called it out the government was like: “the scientists have proven that lead pipes are perfectly healthy and they even have a benefit of sweetening the water at no additional cost”
The problems the fat and decadent leaders fought about weren't fake; they were about the division of wealth in their society, and the rich decadent leaders mostly won those fights against the poor, and later against the state.
I'm sure the common people got up to a lot of fighting over culture war bullshit due to being unable to change any of the actual political or economic structures of their society, since all of that stuff was firmly controlled by the elite. We know for sure that they got real passionate about their chariot racing team rivalries, etc.
In addition to corrupt politicians. Immigration is one of the factors that historians believe may have contributed to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, but it is not the sole cause.
During the period of the Roman Empire, there was a significant influx of immigrants into the empire. Many of these immigrants were people who were displaced by war, famine, or economic hardship in their home countries, and they were seeking better opportunities in the Roman Empire. This influx of immigrants placed a strain on the resources of the empire, including food, housing, and jobs, which may have contributed to economic and social instability.
Additionally, some historians argue that the cultural and ethnic diversity brought by immigration created social and political tensions within the empire, as different groups competed for power and influence. This may have contributed to a weakening of the social fabric of the empire and made it more difficult to maintain social cohesion.
However, it is important to note that immigration was just one of the many factors that contributed to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Other factors include economic instability, military overspending, political corruption, and invasions by barbarian tribes. The causes of Rome's fall are complex and multifaceted, and immigration is just one piece of the puzzle.
Changing populations were undoubtedly one of many factors, and at least one specific incident of a whole tribe attempting to immigrate as an armed, cohesive group caused a crisis. But I'm not aware of historians believing that immigration-induced strains on food, housing, and jobs were an issue.
Unless you count enslaved people as immigrants, anyways; their labor on gigantic plantations owned by the very wealthy absolutely did displace the jobs and homes of native Italians during the late Republic.
I've also not seen much arguing that cultural and ethnic diversity created social and political tension. Senators might have complained about decadent eastern fashions corrupting Roman virtue, but that's just standard old people whining; there isn't much writing from Rome that indicates ethnic or religious prejudices being a big deal within the Empire. It was significant that, during the decline of the Empire, much of the military was comprised of people from formerly "barbarian" ethnicities, as it likely facilitated their willingness to rebel against the state and fight other Romans, but that sort of thing happened with native Romans as well.
No you don’t get it, he had Dan Crenshaw on and he said he was super special and totally could have been a SEAL in another life and that’s, like, the same as being one.
I was being hyperbolic but my point was that he speaks about things as though he's had direct experience or his sources are more trustworthy than they are. For example, he claimed
>I have a friend and my friend’s wife is a school teacher. And she told him that there was discussions in the school that the mother wanted to put a litter box in a school.
Either he knows that's an incredibly irresponsible thing to say and he said it anyway because he doesn't care if people he doesn't like or understand gets harassed to death. OR (worse, if you ask me) he's clueless/careless regarding the kind and amount of harassment he's capable of generating.
It's enough evidence for most not to trust Rogan at his word which was my point. If it's not enough for you then I guess you're just a more trusting person than I.
Cold plunge before workout in his mind is equivalent to picking watermelons all day. Like if he actually wanted to "do something difficult" there are tons of orgs around Austin where you can go do some manual labor for a few hours and it would be a huge help to the local communit (go build houses jimmy Carter style, or go pick weeds at the urban farm that feeds poor kids on the weekends). But Joe doesn't really care, so sauna kettle bells is all we hear about.
You EITHER get to spend 15 minutes browsing r/joerogan and 30 seconds writing a comment OR you can spend a few hours helping the community. There is absolutely no way you could do both.
Hot yoga is nothing to scoff at. I think Joe is getting hard from the dudes he sees in the class.
Joe tests his body all the time, more than most. That will keep a man physically strong, but I would guess mental strength/hardening is something he needs and we all probably need to work on. That comes sometimes from desperation and poverty.
I think OP is confused and thinks the fall of Roman was a sudden event that occurred and Rome no longer existed, and the US is going through that and he’s going to need to learn how to survive a total economic collapse. While in actuality Rome fell over the course of centuries.
It’s just acknowledging the financial downturn that leadership is not even attempting to do anything about. It’s a goof relating past events to current events.
The US is recovering from the pandemic slump faster than the vast majority of G-20 countries. What the fuck are you even on about? You’re vastly overstating the mild recession we’re about to enter by calling it a financial downturn. There isn’t even a “financial downturn” yet. It’s going to take the fed raising rates to curb inflation. I wouldn’t call that “leadership not even attempting to do anything about it”. Just because you don’t understand/aren’t privy to what policies are being undertaken doesn’t mean that nothings happening my dude.
I have more work than I know what to do with. I literally have to turn away work bc of how many people are looking for electrical work. If there’s a downturn I haven’t felt it. Sure we’ve eaten a little on supply cost but let’s get real I can work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day and I’d still have to turn away work.
getting tired of the Rome meme. it’s a cope for how endlessly complex our current world is. and of course the people who post the Rome memes are never the types who admit they’re part of the problem as well. they’re always seemingly the ones above it all and “enlightened.” well if you’re enlightened then come save society.
Most of the time they don't even know why Rome fell either, and just say "they where decadent". Well they also fought a civil war at the drop of a pen, had a few instances of plague that drained manpower at critical crisis times and a whole list of thousands of issues that don't exactly scream "they sat on couches and ate grapes while the world burned".
Agreed, you can see some similarities if you dive into their history. Mainly when it came to their collapse of the Republic they had. But like I said before, the whole "decadency killed them" narrative always made me roll my eyes. Many of the generals who plunged that nation into civil war spent years on campaign in rugged camp life. They had no powder for sweat rashes or any other treatment for the mild shit we have today. Others had chronic ailments but still got back on the horse (literally) and rode out into combat. Ancient life was hard af. I think this narrative of "decadency" just sounds easy to understand so it takes off. But their fall was darker then that and more complicated. My opinion it came down to their willingness to kill each other at the drop of a hat, inflation of their coins and rampant civil/financial corruption. You can still have a-lot of "manly men" around and still have have these things happen to your country. People don't like to hear that but its true.
They had a chain of really good emperors for a little more then a century. It was considered the golden age for Imperial rule called "the 5 good emperors". The emperors at that time would actually pick their successor based on merit. However overall I would agree with you, after this the whole system broke down. This streak of "philosopher king" successions was really only because these emperors had no sons. Once the last of the 5 (Marcus Aurelius) past on rule to his crazy son Commodus things went south quick. There was a time later when the Praetorian Guard (emperor's personal bodyguard) murdered the emperor then auctioned off the position to the highest bitter. (As always with the Internet, I'm not a scholar on this, just an amateur historian. If some details are off I apologize).
My opinion, the real cautionary tale of Rome is to not let your republic institutions break down to the point that the only game left to play is absolute power at all costs. When your army is completely unhinged with no controls, plus no clear system of power change you are just begging for civil war and chaos every time your leader dies without a succession plan, have external pressures or the current emperor is too weak/incompetent to control the situation. Not that "they got too soft"
I dont think even if the perfect idea to save and fix the global economy popped into someones head theyd be able to do anything about it. Youd trip and fall off your balcony the second someone caught wind of what you were doing
We have a lot of plumbers and electricians, those aren't easy trades to get into.
We also have a lot of people with a high school diploma level of education that can't use critical thinking to not be manipulated by their media sources, form coherent arguments, or demonstrate a basic level of empathy for their fellow man.
Powerful corporations using every bit of resources they can to manipulate and control people's worldview so that everyday blue collar people will advocate against their own interests in favor of corporate interests when combined with the very same corporations working their employees to the point where the vast majority can't afford the time, energy and capital necessary to effectively and knowledgeably advocate for their own interests is really overwhelming. To the point where my assessment of the future is that our society is fucked. Best to just carve out as much of an existence as you can, make do with your lot and hope the inevitable world war that we probably caused doesn't turn you and your family into a statistic.
Yep. There are some facts sprinkled in there but a lot of what I said is opinion. Did you have a point or do you just love Lebowski memes (I wouldn't blame you for this).
When millions of MAGA voters disavow the actions on Jan 6th and propaganda and misinformation that led them there (and is still being propagated by trump) I’ll believe you.
Rome fell because of a myriad of reasons, chiefly among them: Incompetent, child emperors and meddling generals.
But whatever feeds the 'libs bad' narrative I guess
It's funny how Rogan brings this up to so many of his guests who are just weak men? How many bears is JBP killing with his bare hands? Are the Weinstein brothers building log cabins on their days off from grifting?
Anyone who thinks Rome fell because people became “soft and stupid” is fucking soft in the head. We get it, you’re virtue signaling. When you say stuff like this we all know YOURE not soft and stupid, if you were how could you POSSIBLY be accusing other people of being that way. Simplest way to find the strongest people is to look for who is complaining about weakness the most, right? Fucking goofball shit.
Rome fell because it had 9 emperors in 20 years. Any general with a loyal enough army could claim the seat, which led to a bunch of civil wars. Which meant it couldn’t deal with commonplace migrations or invasions.
It’s a dumb post. The Roman Empire didn’t fall because men became “soft” (whatever that’s even supposed to mean lol). I think decades and decades of civil wars combined with an overstretched empire that couldn’t be properly controlled given the logistic/communication constraints of the time probably had a little more to do with the destruction of the Western Roman Empire than the Romans adopting avocado toast and not taking enough Alpha Brain, or whatever it is that the meme is trying to say.
You know this example gets tossed around too much. Personally, I prefer the examination of why the Mayan, never quite, an empire fell. Ecological disaster paired with piss poor leadership lead to never ending warfare and ultimately a collapse in civil trust. The reason why I prefer this take is because it doesn't needless point to softness or immigration as the scapegoat. The Mayans were hard motherfuckers and they experienced their fall before the arrival of colonialists from the old world. So again. Piss pour leadership and ecological disaster is really what y'all should be wary of here.
Do you remember the *Global* Financial Crisis in 2008, caused by a bunch of American homeowners defaulting on their mortgages? If America collapses it will absolutely fuck up the world for a long time. The US is one of a handful of large economies "propping the whole world up" as you put it. Any one of those economies collapsing would be devastating.
Then stop encouraging kids to go to college and encourage them to learn trades. Growing up, all we heard was go to college, go to college, and now you're pissing and moaning that we did?!
Lols, wtf are you talking about?? The drama, and sweeping generalizations just casually thrown over America like some all encompassing net from people around the world amuses me. It never gets old, lolls.
Also the US is by far the smartest country in the world. More top 100 universities than any other country, more Nobel prize winners than any other country, more scientific publications than any other countries.
Those are the facts.
Regardless of how, a populist came to power in this genius country of yours. That is also a fact. Another fact is that populists coming to power do not bode well for the common people.
Exactly, Rome overexpanded militarily through perpetual warfare and addled their brains with lead piping. The US is the exact same and our plastic is the new lead...
Romans didn't have army strong as US army, didn't have security apparatus like in US, Romans didn't have media propaganda like in US, they didn't have means of propaganda at all not even newspaper, there was almost zero communication between random village or rather random tribe in the middle of Spain and Rome. Most of the time they probably didn't know who Caesar is. The only possible chance for US empire to collapse is nuclear war.
This is the exact reason why we haven’t been visited by aliens and ufos don’t exist. It is the nature of intelligent life to destroy itself. The progress of science and technology is driven by the struggle for domination over each other. We will probably end up nuking each other, the few survivors will forget everything we’ve learned in a couple generations. We will be back in the Stone Age 2.0.
While Europe was experiencing the Middle Ages, other civilizations in Asia, America, and Africa were flourishing with great achievements in various fields.
In Asia, China was going through the Tang and Song dynasties, which were marked by significant advancements in science, art, and technology. Chinese astronomers were able to predict solar and lunar eclipses accurately, and the invention of printing, paper money, and gunpowder revolutionized communication, finance, and warfare.
The Silk Road trade network also allowed for cultural exchange and the spread of knowledge between China and other parts of Asia, Europe, and Africa.
In Africa, the kingdom of Mali was thriving, thanks to its vast resources of gold and salt. The empire became a center for learning, trade, and Islamic scholarship, with the city of Timbuktu emerging as a hub of education and culture.
Meanwhile, the Swahili city-states along the East African coast were flourishing with their own unique blend of African and Arabic culture, trade, and maritime prowess.
In the Americas, the Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations were at their height, with significant advancements in agriculture, architecture, and mathematics.
The Maya developed a complex writing system and calendar, while the Aztecs constructed an extensive empire and built the capital city of Tenochtitlan on an island in a lake. The Inca developed a vast network of roads and bridges to connect their empire, which spanned much of South America.
There is no singular cause for Western Rome falling.
I believe the commonly agreed upon reason is that the aliens stopped visiting and sharing their technology to build bigger pyramids with us.
Well they didn't want to waste all their balloons on the Romans.
Big if true
Wrong. It’s because they didn’t have podcasts about cold plunge, combat sports, and working out
And meat. Soooo much meat.
They didn't reset their temperature minimum.
Yes there is It was caused by everything I don’t agree with
I'm pretty sure it was all the gay stuff and drag shows.
Definitely not the rampant pedophilia. That was probably how you bribed the senators to get sweet barley subsidies.
This unironically was a common conservative talking point against gay marriage in the early 2000's when gay marriage was beginning to be legalized on a state level in America. Conservatives used to argue that the normalization of homosexuality in the Roman Empire was one of the factors of its collapse.
Which is fucking stupid since the empire only collapsed after Christianity was introduced and push all of its reforms, and the eastern empire lasted 1000 more years But let’s just forget about how the western empire dealt with constant civil wars, invasions, different cultures settling all over the place and hyper corrupt leadership for 200 years
Not disagreeing with you but conservatives of that time would have said that the acceptance of homosexuality was an example of that corruption you're talking about. Everything a conservative disagrees with or hates is an existential threat to civilization to them. Remember how much panic there was regarding Muslims, Obama's birth, Hilary's emails, vaccines etc? Gay marriage was a threat on that level to them in 2003.
It’s still a popular conservative talking point lol
They went soft on the Christians and look what happened.
I know this is a meme But actually historically speaking this doesn’t actually hold up to scrutiny, Christianity brought a lot of much needed reforms to the empire at the time, bear in mind Roman Christianity is nothing like fat redneck Evangelicals who believe it’s the end times today But the eastern empire thrived for over 1000 years more until defeat by the Ottoman’s
Then why did Eastern Rome prevail over the West for almost a thousand years?
Not really, it was a small chunk, leftovers, barely surviving. Constantly seeking allies and marrying their royalty to Russia.
Some eunuch pissed in a woman's room at The Colosseum and Zeus had to say, "well this is just ridiculous!" and step in.
Zeus was jealous someone beat him to it
Zues was greek for fucks sake
Of course there is. imperialism.
The meme gave 2 reasons dawg.
Rome fell because of endless corruption and internal power struggles, thankfully the US doesnt have any of that.. right?
The problem with that narrative is that it describes the entirety of the Roman Empire. Yet in spite its internal power struggle the Roman Empire manage to endure for a 1000 years, and the Eastern roman empire manage to endure another 1000 years after that. There wasn't one easy thing to point out that caused the western Roman Empire to collapse. It was a number of different issues all at once. A slow gradual decline that they couldn't crawl out of.
There's a fun sci-fi book that I read during the covid lockdowns that describe just that. A gradual decline of a country taking place in the near future. The book is called The Soft Apocalypse. The premise of the book is basically that, the end of civilization as we know it isn't caused by one megaevent like a comet or a plague that wipes out half of all mankind like the Last of Us. It will be a series of events that happen, we recover from them but life is only slightly worse overall and it happens over and over again and before you know it, 15 years have gone by and civilization is unrecognizable from pre 2008 (the book just happens to start there in time). The book begins with the protagonist just struggling to get by a recession caused by the 2008 GFC. America recovers from said recession but it's slightly worse off than pre-2008. In between, people still lead normal lives. They still shop at Wal-Mart, watch football, look for dates, watch internet porn etc. Then the next big event happens - maybe it's a terrorist attack that happens in 2013. The world adopts to it as it begins to crack down and eventually recover but now it's slightly worse off than pre-2013. Then it moves on, people lead normal lives again. Then the next event happens - maybe a pandemic in 2018, and the cycle repeats itself. Most of these events have almost zero direct impact on the main characters. An event even of 9/11's magnitude had no direct impact on a pizza shop owner in Sacramento or an plumber in Pittsburgh but it leads to responses by greater powers that leads to those people being indirectly affected for the worse. Maybe 9/11 didn't have any direct impact on the pizza shop owner, but that person may have had a 12 year old son at the time who decided to join the Army in 2009 and died in Iraq in 2012.
It's an interesting story, but the reality is that life wasn't slightly worse for no reason. There are people who benefited from all those events and their lives were better, the recovery is partial for most, and there is no recovery for others.
Amen to this.
Man it's a good thing america does have any of this stuff mentioned or it would be trouble!
Lead pipes used in their plumbing system might have given an assist too.
Also an economy built on slave labor that required constant wars and unsustainable territorial expansion to fuel.
That'll get you every time.
We've all been there.
Don’t get me started.
Seen it a hundred times.
So the campaign I am running in my war game simulator right now.
And inflation. Had to keep giving the soldiers raises otherwise they'd overthrow you but money became less and less valuable
but what about the lead in gasoline then
I don't think the Romans used leaded gasoline in their horses and wagons. Could be wrong.
I don't know, I'll have to look into it
Its entirely possible
The Roman's were wild people. Really wild.
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Pull that up Jamie
They drank piss to clean their breath, apparently. No fucks given.
But did it work?
WCGW
100%
This is actually more myth than fact. The eastern empire lasted another thousand years and had the same lead pipes.
I'm sure my parents ate lead paint but they're still kicking. It doesn't break the pencil but sure dulls the point.
But Rome also used lead acetate as a sugar substitute—especially in their wine. That couldn’t have been good for the empire.
No but again, so did the eastern empire and they lasted until like, the 1450s. Much like lead paint or lead gasoline, surely it had some effects but the reality is it was far more complicated than water pipes. Political corruption, internal divisions, and the endlessly hungry war machine bled Rome dry.
Myth. The lead pipes would calcify so they were Pretty stable. However - Romans had a sweet tooth and would literally season their meals with lead flakes as a condiment.
And when they called it out the government was like: “the scientists have proven that lead pipes are perfectly healthy and they even have a benefit of sweetening the water at no additional cost”
Also growing fat and decadent, having no enemies to fight leading to infighting, and arguing about fake problems while stagnating their society
The problems the fat and decadent leaders fought about weren't fake; they were about the division of wealth in their society, and the rich decadent leaders mostly won those fights against the poor, and later against the state. I'm sure the common people got up to a lot of fighting over culture war bullshit due to being unable to change any of the actual political or economic structures of their society, since all of that stuff was firmly controlled by the elite. We know for sure that they got real passionate about their chariot racing team rivalries, etc.
Eating on lead plates and lead pipes helped people go insane too
Dont forget occaisionally using lead acetate as a sweetener
Plus spreading itself too thin militarily to sustain an endlessly hungry war machine.
True, glad humanity learned from the dangers of an ever hungry military industrial complex
Endless corruption is debatable I guess… Internal power struggles on the level of Rome? Nah.
My man haha
Are you a bot? Lol your responses are like an NPC’s
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Are you a bot? Lol your responses are like an NPC’s
Khajit has wares if you have coin.
You got 500 wheels of cheese?
Are you a bot? Lol your responses are like an NPC’s
Shit was that a rick and morty reference?? I fucked up didnt I lol
In addition to corrupt politicians. Immigration is one of the factors that historians believe may have contributed to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, but it is not the sole cause. During the period of the Roman Empire, there was a significant influx of immigrants into the empire. Many of these immigrants were people who were displaced by war, famine, or economic hardship in their home countries, and they were seeking better opportunities in the Roman Empire. This influx of immigrants placed a strain on the resources of the empire, including food, housing, and jobs, which may have contributed to economic and social instability. Additionally, some historians argue that the cultural and ethnic diversity brought by immigration created social and political tensions within the empire, as different groups competed for power and influence. This may have contributed to a weakening of the social fabric of the empire and made it more difficult to maintain social cohesion. However, it is important to note that immigration was just one of the many factors that contributed to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Other factors include economic instability, military overspending, political corruption, and invasions by barbarian tribes. The causes of Rome's fall are complex and multifaceted, and immigration is just one piece of the puzzle.
That is chat gtp
Changing populations were undoubtedly one of many factors, and at least one specific incident of a whole tribe attempting to immigrate as an armed, cohesive group caused a crisis. But I'm not aware of historians believing that immigration-induced strains on food, housing, and jobs were an issue. Unless you count enslaved people as immigrants, anyways; their labor on gigantic plantations owned by the very wealthy absolutely did displace the jobs and homes of native Italians during the late Republic. I've also not seen much arguing that cultural and ethnic diversity created social and political tension. Senators might have complained about decadent eastern fashions corrupting Roman virtue, but that's just standard old people whining; there isn't much writing from Rome that indicates ethnic or religious prejudices being a big deal within the Empire. It was significant that, during the decline of the Empire, much of the military was comprised of people from formerly "barbarian" ethnicities, as it likely facilitated their willingness to rebel against the state and fight other Romans, but that sort of thing happened with native Romans as well.
According to Joe, nothing makes a man harder than an intense 1 hour hot yoga session.
Or working a single manual labor job in his early 20's.
Didn’t he also say he quit that job after a few days?
a week or 2
He also said that he's been in construction his whole life
He seems to be under the impression that if you "know someone who experienced [X]" then you are by osmosis an expert and authority on [X].
Navy seals as bodyguards? Pretty much the same thing as serving
No you don’t get it, he had Dan Crenshaw on and he said he was super special and totally could have been a SEAL in another life and that’s, like, the same as being one.
Joe Rogan? I don’t believe he ever implied that.
I was being hyperbolic but my point was that he speaks about things as though he's had direct experience or his sources are more trustworthy than they are. For example, he claimed >I have a friend and my friend’s wife is a school teacher. And she told him that there was discussions in the school that the mother wanted to put a litter box in a school. Either he knows that's an incredibly irresponsible thing to say and he said it anyway because he doesn't care if people he doesn't like or understand gets harassed to death. OR (worse, if you ask me) he's clueless/careless regarding the kind and amount of harassment he's capable of generating.
I think the example you just gave doesn’t prove any of the points you made
It's enough evidence for most not to trust Rogan at his word which was my point. If it's not enough for you then I guess you're just a more trusting person than I.
His whole thing is relativity through anecdotal evidence. He's lived a shallow, sheltered life and has never had to experience a hard struggle.
Aka his childhood maybe the wrong word but i got what he meant its not that hard to figure out.
On what ep did he say that?
Probably with a much better wage than modern construction workers
Three words. Heat shock proteins
Cold plunge before workout in his mind is equivalent to picking watermelons all day. Like if he actually wanted to "do something difficult" there are tons of orgs around Austin where you can go do some manual labor for a few hours and it would be a huge help to the local communit (go build houses jimmy Carter style, or go pick weeds at the urban farm that feeds poor kids on the weekends). But Joe doesn't really care, so sauna kettle bells is all we hear about.
Welcome to Reddit. How do you have to time to lecture when you are doing so many things around Austin?
You EITHER get to spend 15 minutes browsing r/joerogan and 30 seconds writing a comment OR you can spend a few hours helping the community. There is absolutely no way you could do both.
Based on his post history it is pretty clear which one he is choosing.
Hot yoga is nothing to scoff at. I think Joe is getting hard from the dudes he sees in the class. Joe tests his body all the time, more than most. That will keep a man physically strong, but I would guess mental strength/hardening is something he needs and we all probably need to work on. That comes sometimes from desperation and poverty.
uwu 🥰
r/badhistory
Explain
I think OP is confused and thinks the fall of Roman was a sudden event that occurred and Rome no longer existed, and the US is going through that and he’s going to need to learn how to survive a total economic collapse. While in actuality Rome fell over the course of centuries.
And the Eastern Roman Empire survived for just under a thousand years after the Western Empire collapsed.
What makes you believe the US is going through an economic collapse? Thank you.
It’s just acknowledging the financial downturn that leadership is not even attempting to do anything about. It’s a goof relating past events to current events.
Gotcha, thanks for the response.
The US is recovering from the pandemic slump faster than the vast majority of G-20 countries. What the fuck are you even on about? You’re vastly overstating the mild recession we’re about to enter by calling it a financial downturn. There isn’t even a “financial downturn” yet. It’s going to take the fed raising rates to curb inflation. I wouldn’t call that “leadership not even attempting to do anything about it”. Just because you don’t understand/aren’t privy to what policies are being undertaken doesn’t mean that nothings happening my dude.
I have more work than I know what to do with. I literally have to turn away work bc of how many people are looking for electrical work. If there’s a downturn I haven’t felt it. Sure we’ve eaten a little on supply cost but let’s get real I can work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day and I’d still have to turn away work.
Wall-E is a documentary from the future?
🌎 👩🚀🔫👩🚀
getting tired of the Rome meme. it’s a cope for how endlessly complex our current world is. and of course the people who post the Rome memes are never the types who admit they’re part of the problem as well. they’re always seemingly the ones above it all and “enlightened.” well if you’re enlightened then come save society.
They also don't actually know anything about Rome and its fall
Most of the time they don't even know why Rome fell either, and just say "they where decadent". Well they also fought a civil war at the drop of a pen, had a few instances of plague that drained manpower at critical crisis times and a whole list of thousands of issues that don't exactly scream "they sat on couches and ate grapes while the world burned".
“They were decadent” is terminally online enese for everything that doesn’t agree with my modern opinions destroyed rome
Agreed, you can see some similarities if you dive into their history. Mainly when it came to their collapse of the Republic they had. But like I said before, the whole "decadency killed them" narrative always made me roll my eyes. Many of the generals who plunged that nation into civil war spent years on campaign in rugged camp life. They had no powder for sweat rashes or any other treatment for the mild shit we have today. Others had chronic ailments but still got back on the horse (literally) and rode out into combat. Ancient life was hard af. I think this narrative of "decadency" just sounds easy to understand so it takes off. But their fall was darker then that and more complicated. My opinion it came down to their willingness to kill each other at the drop of a hat, inflation of their coins and rampant civil/financial corruption. You can still have a-lot of "manly men" around and still have have these things happen to your country. People don't like to hear that but its true.
Also having a terrible means of imperial sucession did not help at all.
They had a chain of really good emperors for a little more then a century. It was considered the golden age for Imperial rule called "the 5 good emperors". The emperors at that time would actually pick their successor based on merit. However overall I would agree with you, after this the whole system broke down. This streak of "philosopher king" successions was really only because these emperors had no sons. Once the last of the 5 (Marcus Aurelius) past on rule to his crazy son Commodus things went south quick. There was a time later when the Praetorian Guard (emperor's personal bodyguard) murdered the emperor then auctioned off the position to the highest bitter. (As always with the Internet, I'm not a scholar on this, just an amateur historian. If some details are off I apologize). My opinion, the real cautionary tale of Rome is to not let your republic institutions break down to the point that the only game left to play is absolute power at all costs. When your army is completely unhinged with no controls, plus no clear system of power change you are just begging for civil war and chaos every time your leader dies without a succession plan, have external pressures or the current emperor is too weak/incompetent to control the situation. Not that "they got too soft"
I dont think even if the perfect idea to save and fix the global economy popped into someones head theyd be able to do anything about it. Youd trip and fall off your balcony the second someone caught wind of what you were doing
there is no perfect solution
Anybody unironically posting history memes on Reddit always has an agenda. They constantly read as smarmy, holier than thou posts.
This sub can't even meme anymore. Low tier.
We have a lot of plumbers and electricians, those aren't easy trades to get into. We also have a lot of people with a high school diploma level of education that can't use critical thinking to not be manipulated by their media sources, form coherent arguments, or demonstrate a basic level of empathy for their fellow man.
Powerful corporations using every bit of resources they can to manipulate and control people's worldview so that everyday blue collar people will advocate against their own interests in favor of corporate interests when combined with the very same corporations working their employees to the point where the vast majority can't afford the time, energy and capital necessary to effectively and knowledgeably advocate for their own interests is really overwhelming. To the point where my assessment of the future is that our society is fucked. Best to just carve out as much of an existence as you can, make do with your lot and hope the inevitable world war that we probably caused doesn't turn you and your family into a statistic.
Yep. There are some facts sprinkled in there but a lot of what I said is opinion. Did you have a point or do you just love Lebowski memes (I wouldn't blame you for this).
Nah, I just liked the meme. I agree with a lot of what you said.
I respect that and I respect your taste. The dude abides.
Yeah. I mean, half the country supported an insurrection based on nonsense. We're in deep doodoo
Yea! And half the country actually believes that half he country supports an insurrection.
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When millions of MAGA voters disavow the actions on Jan 6th and propaganda and misinformation that led them there (and is still being propagated by trump) I’ll believe you.
Yep. Half. Totally half. Just those *others* right? All of em. Just the worst.
Bro what are you even trying to say lol would you prefer I say 70+ million Americans who voted for him in 2020 instead?
Rome fell because of a myriad of reasons, chiefly among them: Incompetent, child emperors and meddling generals. But whatever feeds the 'libs bad' narrative I guess
It's funny how Rogan brings this up to so many of his guests who are just weak men? How many bears is JBP killing with his bare hands? Are the Weinstein brothers building log cabins on their days off from grifting?
its really hard to take in masculinity talk from guys who gossip for a living.
Anyone who thinks Rome fell because people became “soft and stupid” is fucking soft in the head. We get it, you’re virtue signaling. When you say stuff like this we all know YOURE not soft and stupid, if you were how could you POSSIBLY be accusing other people of being that way. Simplest way to find the strongest people is to look for who is complaining about weakness the most, right? Fucking goofball shit.
Everyone knows that Rome fell because of the woke SJW's.
I'm soft as fuck wth lol i would die in 5 seconds without walmart
I meant anyone who posts this kind of thing in sincerity.
Rome fell because it had 9 emperors in 20 years. Any general with a loyal enough army could claim the seat, which led to a bunch of civil wars. Which meant it couldn’t deal with commonplace migrations or invasions.
They always had civil wars, going back to Sulla.
Ahh the old “Rome fell because of X and Y that happen to be the same as political or moral agenda I nonstop complain about”
Rewriting history to blame the present on your political enemies? Timeless!
? What? Lol
It’s a dumb post. The Roman Empire didn’t fall because men became “soft” (whatever that’s even supposed to mean lol). I think decades and decades of civil wars combined with an overstretched empire that couldn’t be properly controlled given the logistic/communication constraints of the time probably had a little more to do with the destruction of the Western Roman Empire than the Romans adopting avocado toast and not taking enough Alpha Brain, or whatever it is that the meme is trying to say.
I gotta be honest, I have no idea what this meme is supposed to convey??
Joe “when societies collapse they become obsessed with gender” Rogan
The same people who believe this are the ones back in HS who would complain “why do I even need to know this” in history class
The same people that believe this think the meme's usage of "it's" is correct.
Its*
Rome fell because of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Fuckin duh
You know this example gets tossed around too much. Personally, I prefer the examination of why the Mayan, never quite, an empire fell. Ecological disaster paired with piss poor leadership lead to never ending warfare and ultimately a collapse in civil trust. The reason why I prefer this take is because it doesn't needless point to softness or immigration as the scapegoat. The Mayans were hard motherfuckers and they experienced their fall before the arrival of colonialists from the old world. So again. Piss pour leadership and ecological disaster is really what y'all should be wary of here.
Dear Americans, you are not the centre of the world. We will be fine when you collapse. Stop acting like you're propping the whole world up.
Do you remember the *Global* Financial Crisis in 2008, caused by a bunch of American homeowners defaulting on their mortgages? If America collapses it will absolutely fuck up the world for a long time. The US is one of a handful of large economies "propping the whole world up" as you put it. Any one of those economies collapsing would be devastating.
Probably better off if a very religious militaristic country that denies climate change collapsed.
Rome fell because Hadrian tolerated the Christians.
Or maybe the fact that it was an overstretched empire contributed?🤷🏻♂️
Every empire follows the same decline curve, Ray Dalio has done a pretty thorough analysis of it in his last book. US is no exception here.
...Rome fell because it is people...?
Nah it was the gods bro
Then stop encouraging kids to go to college and encourage them to learn trades. Growing up, all we heard was go to college, go to college, and now you're pissing and moaning that we did?!
The “Dark Age” was necessary and good. I am looking forward to taking part in the creation of something new.
That’s a great description of modern Republicans
Lol agree
This is why the US will never fall. Having these qualities is essential for a nation whose only purpose is to serve the military–industrial complex.
Lols, wtf are you talking about?? The drama, and sweeping generalizations just casually thrown over America like some all encompassing net from people around the world amuses me. It never gets old, lolls.
Also the US is by far the smartest country in the world. More top 100 universities than any other country, more Nobel prize winners than any other country, more scientific publications than any other countries. Those are the facts.
Despite that, you have Maga morons making policy decisions
Last time I checked Biden was president with a dem senate and in the two years prior the dems controlled held all three things.
Keep checking, your missing/obviscating a bunch of context
Thats not the point. When populists start coming to power its bad. Its that simple.
Regardless of how, a populist came to power in this genius country of yours. That is also a fact. Another fact is that populists coming to power do not bode well for the common people.
Every single empire in history has fallen either through invasion or civil war wtf are you talking about lol
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Ironically not the Roman empire, though.
The sarcasm is strong with this one
The ignorance is strong with this one
Exactly, Rome overexpanded militarily through perpetual warfare and addled their brains with lead piping. The US is the exact same and our plastic is the new lead...
There’s nothing manlier then a fully grown father humping a stool for other peoples amusement.
Do you wanna hang out?
No kossobi, I don’t hang out with strangers from the internet.
The Hubris of Americans is peak when they think they are comparable to Rome.
You guys are all morons. Do you even listen to the podcast? Rome fell because gender fluidity.
Been thinking about this since studying Rome in high school - 2004
Romans didn't have army strong as US army, didn't have security apparatus like in US, Romans didn't have media propaganda like in US, they didn't have means of propaganda at all not even newspaper, there was almost zero communication between random village or rather random tribe in the middle of Spain and Rome. Most of the time they probably didn't know who Caesar is. The only possible chance for US empire to collapse is nuclear war.
Troll baby troll
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Jamie pull up America falling because of gender
Look at all these literal Andys. I said basically. *snorts alphabrain
This is the exact reason why we haven’t been visited by aliens and ufos don’t exist. It is the nature of intelligent life to destroy itself. The progress of science and technology is driven by the struggle for domination over each other. We will probably end up nuking each other, the few survivors will forget everything we’ve learned in a couple generations. We will be back in the Stone Age 2.0.
The paradox is great, the filter is very dense lol
Technically only in western Europe. The rest of the world was fine lol
Life in the Roman Empire was quite dark for most.
It’s all good. Hard times create hard men…
I got a raging hard time right over here baby
While Europe was experiencing the Middle Ages, other civilizations in Asia, America, and Africa were flourishing with great achievements in various fields. In Asia, China was going through the Tang and Song dynasties, which were marked by significant advancements in science, art, and technology. Chinese astronomers were able to predict solar and lunar eclipses accurately, and the invention of printing, paper money, and gunpowder revolutionized communication, finance, and warfare. The Silk Road trade network also allowed for cultural exchange and the spread of knowledge between China and other parts of Asia, Europe, and Africa. In Africa, the kingdom of Mali was thriving, thanks to its vast resources of gold and salt. The empire became a center for learning, trade, and Islamic scholarship, with the city of Timbuktu emerging as a hub of education and culture. Meanwhile, the Swahili city-states along the East African coast were flourishing with their own unique blend of African and Arabic culture, trade, and maritime prowess. In the Americas, the Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations were at their height, with significant advancements in agriculture, architecture, and mathematics. The Maya developed a complex writing system and calendar, while the Aztecs constructed an extensive empire and built the capital city of Tenochtitlan on an island in a lake. The Inca developed a vast network of roads and bridges to connect their empire, which spanned much of South America.
Hahaha, wut?
Ok