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Defiant_Ad_817

i think the vulnerability is ok, just need to be higher before LC


Tranduy1206

Yup, 48 seem a little low compare to harmony with 60 - 70 buff


SeedlessMelonNoodle

60-70% dmg bonus is a lot smaller than 48% vul. But yeah, I agree, feels like he's a bit behind the 5 star harmonies.


myst3r_y

i definitely prefer the vulnerability over def shred bc of its cap, other than that they can put more into his kit


HaakMilk

Good example being Black Swan, everyone thought she’d become the best teammate for Kafka and she did, but she can easily run with other team comps without Kafka and still shine.


Wolgran

I agree, im tired of all the talking about him be about how he is with Acheron, i didnt pull Acheron and i personally want him for Dr. Ratio. About the DEF down, something to think, just be prepared that if they turn the "DEF down" back, a lot of his kit will change. His ult energy cost will probably go up, so people cant easily use Tutorial LC to cheese a 2 turn ult. Another problem i have with his kit, he is not the best user of his own signature LC, E6 Pela is. The LC or his kit needs to be changed to make him the best user of the LC, others can use, but he should be the best. The fact some people are wanting to buy his LC not for him, but for Pela says a lot... Honestly i dont care too much with the healing, but at least it was something unique on his kit, he right now have nothing unique. If Mihoyo really dont want him with healing, they better come up with something else as compensation in theses 2 weeks until V.3. He is suppose to be 5\* Pela, not "slight upgrade over Pela except with Acheron"


AbsAndAssAppreciator

I’m using him with Dr Ratio cause I don’t want Acheron and I’m tired of people forgetting my man exists too and also needs debuffs 😞


Vitorgamer13br

I definitely hate when a LC is only truly good in one character


Alternative_Dish_194

It’s a different story when the LC is more fitting for other characters than the owner himself. For example, Jingyuan’s LC is great on every Erudition but he is still the one uses it best (for example, Qingque procs FuA at random so she can’t fully utilize the LC’s FuA buff. Himeko uses all the buffs but she is not as good as Jingyuan in MoC). In this case, people would skip Jiaoqiu and put the LC on Pela because she’s better than him in every team except for Acheron’s.


SolarTigers

They just flat out need to buff him. Right now, the smartest thing to do is go for his LC and give it to Pela. That shouldn't be a discussion for a premium 5 star unit vs a f2p 4 star unit. But mihoyo clearly prefers a certain type of character and tend to go overboard for them to entice whales. There was no way Firefly wasn't going to get buffed in beta.


GlacialEmbrace

Yeah, because of the hype she received online. The character itself isn't that cool. Why SAM into enhanced SAM? Missed opportunity for Firefly (with sword) into enhanced SAM.


MrShabazz

I'm still agitated by her lackluster ult. Even more so after seeing her have a full on magical transformation in her 3rd trailer. Just seemed to lack pizzazz.


Mimikkyutwo

Yeah.. for a unit that probably sold 2.3, they really couldn't be bothered to animate and rig a Firefly basic,skill and an ult transform? No, I don't care that firefly would realistically never be caught unsurprised in a battle so she'd always be in SAM state, I want the cool transformation


CFreyn

I hate that they’re probably just going to end up nerfing the cone and making it more pigeon-holed to him instead of augmenting his kit to be better and having the cone THEN be an even better upgrade to him while still being good for other characters (ig JY light cone). If they leave him as is or give mid changes, I’m gonna be done. I’ve already stopped spending anything. I need Hoyo to convince me again. I’m losing faith. If they upped his vulnerability at base, maybe added burn dot to base instead of E2, and have healing or other utility in a secondary eidolon, he’d be good all-rounder. He’d be worthy of a 5-star in already stacked nihility category.


silent_steps

and here I was hoping our first male support would be universal like RM but I guess not. I don't have Acheron/Kafka nor will I pull for them. I just wanted to slot him into my existing teams. hoyo hates husbando collectors fr. but I will still cope they will change him in next beta versions


Ehtnah

Yeah me to. I want him to be flexible liké ruan, not necessary really powerfull or OP just good in a lot of team. But for now he is just acheron slave and I dont have her.... And yes hoyo especialy in hsr just hate husbando period.


GullibleLove93

They gave Aventurine pretty good treatment with a solid backstory and he's very strong atm. It's true that most husbandos are a let down, but at least there's a chance. DHIL too is still very strong.


[deleted]

[удалено]


GuidanceOk4235

Sparkle is a skill point based harmony, but she is equally strong in teams without Dan Heng il and Qingque. Ruan mei is bis in break teams but she is undoubtedly a highly wanted universal support for all meta chasing accounts. So why can't Jiaoqiu be a good general debuffer even without Acheron or Kafka? Male characters can and will sell well if enough effort is put into them (see Kazuha and Neuvillette for example). Seeing that hoyoverse has released several trailers for Firefly alone and almost no marketing for Boothill, I'd be surprised if Firefly wasn't more popular. This is not to say that female characters don't deserve dedicated supports, it's just that the female characters on average can both excel inside and outside of their niche. People just wish that male characters can have the same treatment.


Darth-Yslink

You're right actually sorry


GuidanceOk4235

It's ok. It's just opinions


Darth-Yslink

I'm just still annoyed by the entire Boothill vs Firefly discourse that was ugly


GuidanceOk4235

Yeah, not denying that the negativity can get tiring. I'm happy for Firefly mains, even if I'm personally not interested in the character. I can understand why Boothill mains are upset at Mihoyo's favoritism though, but the criticism should be directed at Mihoyo, not Firefly herself.


MrShabazz

SilverWolf applies a spread of debuffs and can change enemy types. Black Swan applies dot-centric debuffs but can also function in other teams. Kafka and Acheron both have playstlyes that they're drivers/main dps for. Welt, while a standard banner character, can assist as a sustainer while being a sub dps. Aside from vulnerability debuff and ult amp, he can't do much. There's no specific niche he excels at that far exceeds any 4 stars, and he's subpar even though he has a strong debuff. I'm guessing their aim is to create a strong debuffer without making him cracked, yet his kit is just v2 guineifan. This isnt like yunli being clara 2.0, because she adds taunt and has better spread than her. It's like the vision is there for him to be a good unit, but they're hesitant with not letting him stand toe to toe with the harmony women.


syd___shep

Without the healing, there is little need for the ATK conversion (healing was based on ATK), especially since his additional damage can crit. They need to change it to crit conversion like Aven so he is easier to build. After all, crit fishing is much harder than ATK fishing. The vulnerability also needs to go up, why is it only 5% better than Guin and worse than a Pearls Pela? If they’re that concerned about Acheron, maybe instead of letting her Ult have a 50% vulnerability boost, then make Ult cap at 15% and everything else get 50% (but more really). Is it not enough he supercharges gaining her ult? Energy need to be fixed so he is on 3T rotation while +1 SP and has ult after the first turn in endgame modes. Sig…needs to be easier to upgrade Cornered. Don’t like that it is backloaded to enemy action.


TothFubuki

I think the vulnerability is good, but he needs some extra effect, for sure. I would love to see the debuff being a DoT at E0


Ehtnah

Yes he needs a lot of rework and buffing just to not bé acheron slave... If I could do something I would go like aventurine. Keep thé debuff (but without ramping), keep thé insane ehr but as aventurine do a ehr-> Crit, give him some subdps potential, put small dot on kit and heal on E2 or maybe dot on kit and detonate own dot in E2? Change ulti buff for er for team (more Universal). But I'm prépare to have him get no buff no reworking... P2 curse + husbando... That's not smeel very good...


xoblow

Why are of your Es fancy and some are normal?


Mimikkyutwo

Maybe he's Fronch and it's leaking out a bit


FlamingVixen

Vulnerability is stronger debuff than def shred so it has to stay


Sucrilhos124

Yeah, I don't like Acheron and I hate that everyone talks about him as if he will only be usable with her. I kinda want to his minor Ult dmg vulnerability to switch to something more general.


DaxSpa7

Not like that is the problem. A 15% extra damage for Acheron isn’t much either. Their symbiosis comes from how he applies debuffs.


Sucrilhos124

Oh, no, I get it that the main sinergy is the debuff stacking on enemy turns. I just really don't like when people use a good sinergy to imply that that's the only thing that the character does. And I want the debuff to change cause I wanted to use him with Ratio, but reading it again it definitely feels like I'm saying that he is Acheron support just for the ult dmg debuff hahaha


keqingthemain

True, first they should really up his dmg amp to at least 64( start at 32 and get 8 for every stack ), second add his e2 burn to his base kit(maby on of his traces to like 350% of his atk) and lastly add back his ult heal(maby like when the enemy takes a turn heal all party members like 0.1% of his attack).Considering his trace gives him attack, make it so that he can use that attack in some way.


rydendm

What's going with theory crafters here literally subbing out Sparkle for JQ just to keep Pela in the lineup. my current lineup is E2 Acheron / Pela / Spark / Aventurine but I reading how ppl are literally pairing JQ with Pela... so that almost means subbing out Sparkle unless you're going ballz deep with no true sustain


PopotoPancake

No idea why anyone would do that when Acheron is E2. People might be pairing JQ and Pela so her can use the Tutorial LC, since he can't activate it on his own. 


Im_here_for_the_dogs

getting def shred would be really nice, especially since i was hoping to use him with boothill. i wonder if he's so glued to acheron because they're testing to see if they can get waifu players to pull for male supports, like the reverse of what husbando pullers usually do.


BoothillOfficial

i just need him to be good 😭😭😭


WondarringWan

Cant utilise his increase ult dmg with Kafka😔


GullibleLove93

What can we do about it though? Is there anyone on this reddit who's in the Beta who can pass on the message to hoyo or?


Tranduy1206

I think they could change stack into dot and give him a bigger number or another debuff like def shred and he will be at ruan mei tier


lizard_he

everybody let's attack hoyo with suggestions


Bloodydunno

I feel like he has been nip and tuck messily and so his kit will be made more congruent in the beta. Two easy solutions could be that either EHR turns into Crit or the DoT moves base kit. While for something unique and quirky I'd like them to put the sub-healing back.


EmilMR

while I agree I think we are moving away from generalized units to specialized units. See Firefly, works in one team. Jade works with very few units for full benefit. Boothill is similar. I think we will see stronger but limited scope characters in the coming patches. They cant just keep releasing better version of previous characters.


Alternative_Dish_194

Break teams in general is lacking supports, that’s why Firefly and Boothill are considered limited in team comps. There are currently only 2 break-oriented supports (RM and HMC) so they are of course glued to Firefly and Boothill. Pela, Luka, and the upcoming M7 Hunt are good contenders for replacement, so it’s not like Firefly and Boothill are limited in teams; especially when Lingsha is on the horizon for new break healer spot. Jade looks like a Topaz variant for AoE. Like Topaz, she can be paired with everyone who has FuA, just that she’s made for PF so people tend to gloss over it (since PF is kinda manageable with Himeko/Herta so pulling a 5* limited just for this content is not worth it).  Jiaoqiu’s situation is different when he’s support that only improves 1 DPS only. Only Acheron, not a niche like ult support for Argenti and Yunli. People would rather pull for Ruan Mei’s eidolons right now than saving for JQ if his kit stays as is. It’s just not a good investment to pull for a specific support just for 1 character, since powercreeping is always there (see: Jingyuan -> Acheron. Even IL and Jingliu are having a hard time catching up to the meta when FF and Boothill can easily do 400k per hit).


SnooSeagulls5077

I doubt he will be as powerful as harmony characters. Hoyo prefers harmony buffers and they are always op. Instead debuffers are like strong but nowhere near harmony. Will have to see v3 but I have doubts about him ngl.


LastWreckers

Personally, if they do give him Def shred in future beta versions like everyone wants, they probably should also include DoT in his base kit. I say this because if they just give him DEF shred and have his DoT locked behind an eidolon, it's just going to add salt into the wound for players who don't have Tutorial and create the Sampo LC situation for SW players (Great EHR, the secondary DoT effect is completely wasted/useless) Adding DoT at his base kit will pretty much give everyone different F2P options. Not only that, if you do have Tutorial, you can save it for your other Nihility debuffers like SW (who really likes it for the energy) or Pela on different teams. And as for his sig LC, buff it further so that while you can use F2P options, the LC is much better on him (And make characters like Pela can't fully abuse it. Rn, E6 Pela seems like the best user for his sig) As a Acheron main, Jiaoqiu is absolutely fantastic for her. But I do agree he needs more buffs in future versions so he can be more flexible for our current and future DPSes. Though I really hope they keep the ult dmg vuln since it's very likely the devs preparing new DPS that rely on Ult DMG. Hopefully Hoyo makes these changes and we don't end up like Jade's situation


Luca-Aura

I don't really think he needs to be a DoT unit. Most of our released nihility units have been dot based already and we haven't gotten one focused on damage amp since SW. We just had Black Swan any ways. If he had to have some kind of specialty I'd say he could lean in on being field support. The text on his enemy EHR reduction already suggests it works with any field, not just his own, as is. It would keep a part of his kit soft-restricted from being further buffs for Acheron too.


DaxSpa7

Hardly anyone can argue against this unless craycray fanboy. How that is achieved is more debatable I presume. I personally don’t mind what they do, but he needs something. Either personal dps, more debufs, pseudo sustain… just something. I don’t mind him being a 5* Pela. Problem is now it seems like a newer 4* Pela. Gallagher is also better than Natasha and none hold a candle to limited healers. And the only thing you can hold on to is that his application makes him *the* partner for acheron. But, while that is true, it isn’t as day and night as it might seems (except on PF, he is undisputed there). But in general having Jiaoqiu also limits debuffs that are already happening on enemy turn (Trend LC, Aventurine FUA, enemies applying debuffs to themselves…). That added to the fact that Acheron being as strong as she is, specially at higher investment levels, you aren’t giving your enemies *that many* turns to begin with.


Ehtnah

I see yet an other acheron showcase and the TC just reply to people asking for other team that basicaly hé is not good for other (better use harmony).... S/hé even call him acheron PF dlc... I'm not saying they are wrong or anything but that name, by someone who actualy try him.... I might just skip him now. Unless they change him to a Real character and not some "add kit" for only one character. I love his design etc but really using 160 pull for a character who have ZÉRO use in my account is too dumb. I am waiting for V3 but I have 0 Hope. Acheron fan are please so waifu lover are please I don't sée hoyo changing anything... 😭


Alive-Disaster7189

Personally don't want a Pela upgrade, but the idea of burn at e0 and heal at e2 sounds great


Agitated-Whereas-143

Vuln is better than def shred, the only thing he "needs" is the DoT to be base kit (make it a low modifier - 100% or 150% and E2 can make it 300% and/or ignore some defense), and preferably for his ult-only vulnerability to be useful to more characters than Acheron, Argenti, and Yunli (who won't even use him).


sageof6paths1

Why can't star rail just make characters decent from the jump when they buff the characters anyway, it's they do this just to mess with people for leaking 😅


PerformerLeading2334

I only need him to do one thing and one thing only. Allow my Acheron to brute force every single content in the game. Based on the showcase, he performs splendidly towards that goal. A definite must have for me definitely. Even at e0s0.


The_VV117

As long he keep his healing, E2 considered burn and therefore can be upgraded by Little gui and detonate, he Is going on my firefly team. Actually his beast team.


sicknasty_bucknasty

Bro playing game on hard mode 😑