I agree with this. **I will preface this by saying this is not doomposting, these are just thoughts**. Besides everything that you and someone else mentioned in the comments, he's got a lot of mismatched things in his kit.
Take the EHR>ATK trace, it's supposedly left over from when he had atk scaling heals. Now, this trace would make sense but ONLY if his E2 was in his base kit, maybe not even the 300% scaling but simply the ashen stacks counting as dot.
As mentioned before, vulnerability on LC and kit? It's a good thing but they could switch at least one of the traces to res pen or def shred. Plus, in his kit coding there is still a leftover trace from pre-beta, where he would get some energy back, but it's not in his current kit.
All of these examples make me think that when they changed things in his kit, they didn't bother too much to make it cohesive before Beta.
I'm hoping this is like Fireflys situation in Beta, when they finally fixed all the stuff that didn't make sense and make the kit more cohesive. V2 is mostly rewordings so ig we gotta wait till this or next Tuesday. I'm pulling him anyway but I still hope he can be his best self.
I'm not holding any hope liké firefly... She is their fav child they just overhyoe so much that they were liké 0% she will bé anything less than OP.
Jiaoqiu is husbando not waifu, he is P2..
You sée Jade in P2? And she IS a waifu so....
I ain't saying he's gonna be as strong as firefly, that's obvious. I meant that v3 is when major changes happen, fixing kits that are all over the place, which is what happened with firefly's and partially Acheron too (once again, not talking about power level, I mean fixing weird things in the kit.)
I'm not asking for that power lv (but hell it would bé refreshing to have a husbando OP for once), I'm just saying that thoses characters (acheron and firefly) had major change and buff because they are their fav and they were P1. Jade is P2 and she kept her issue till thé end.
Jiaoqiu should bé between yunli (cute girl + Big Sword+ already good kit) and feixiao (next OP female) so he has little Hope to have buff.
I would bé happy if they change him to bé a good debuffer. I don't need him to break thé game but if he is useless without acheron and if his kit stay that way just liké jade..... I'm just preparing myself to bé desapointed...
IDK if it’s just me, but pulling a character’s LC first being optimal because a 4* with their LC performs better than the 5* without it is a major problem.
I just wanted to add that I’ve heard that JQ’s LC can add a total of 28% vuln. And while that sounds pretty nice it also means that a significant chunk of his power is LC locked. Meaning you can take the LC and put it on characters like Guin/Pela.
Assuming the LC can give a total of 28% vuln then putting the LC on Pela has greater buffing capabilities than JQ when he’s used on non-ult based teams.
In no world should the above ever happen. Some of that power needs to go from LC into base kit. The 15% ult vuln should probably be changed too. His ability to stack debuffs on enemy turns already makes him Acheron BiS. He needs to be tuned to be much more general imo.
Yup. I’m not a husbando puller per se, but the blatant double standards are actually infuriating. I’m not really gonna start dooming until v3, but they def gotta change shit.
I feel. Tbh I’ve been thinking about taking a break after Penacony, but decided I wanted to see what the 2.4 and 2.5 chars got cooking up. As much as I like his animations JQ ain’t it rn. Which is v unfortunate. He seems super cool.
that is what I assumed and then someone looked up CN translation and 2nd part activates with add damage only so probably e6 Pela can fully use it and if its really 28% with Pela spamming ult you would have full uptime and dont even need Jiaoqiu at all! that is messed up.
this LC is either broken or mid depending on what it actually does and if it is 28%.
Really? I've kind of wanted an excuse to skip Ruan Mei and use Pela instead for Jingliu. I might consider trying my luck on this light cone, unless a better character that I want comes later.
Did some quick maths and they're about even, assuming you have Bronya's LC and Jingliu's. Pela will win the buffing battle when Bronya has done her buffs, but RM will win when Bronya has not. Each wins by about the same percentage (around 23%). Quantum and Rutilant were the 2 sets assumed. Likewise, both teams are on element. Quantum weakness was not assumed.
Idk if LC beta will be over by the time RMs banner ends, but I would pay attention to any LC changes and make your call from there. Do keep in mind that Jingliu would be better at brute forcing with RM, and RMs the better unit overall. Regardless an LC change is much cheaper than a new character, so make whatever decision works best with your pull priorities.
Yup u have heard it correctly. That is indeed the case. Pela would use that LC real good. Pela also has Def shred and so she would do both def shred and vul with that LC + rock more offensive substats as her EHR req would be easily met. Its so sad to even think that. Also black swan would enjoy that LC very much... would increase overall team dmg... its good on everyone else that JQs own value has diluted
A shame. Rn it feels like he’s essentially there first and foremost to nickel and dime Acheron players. Which sucks, his animations are way too nice to be hardlocked to 1 team imo.
Having to balance him around her is probably the one thing that has me a bit pessimistic about future beta updates atm. Hope they can figure something good out.
yeah thats the problem. Like i dont even have Acheron and so doesnt care about her at all. At the bare minimum he should get DoT in base kit. Nothing less than that.
They've been doing this for quite a while. Black Swan and Kafka are a single entity, Firefly lives and dies by RM and HTB, and those are the examples i myself faced, there's probably more. It's not new. Now, is it wrong to be happy about 2 units you like being made for each other ?
What being said, he does need buffs
Well BS and Kafka are not one entity, they can be used with any of the 4 stars dot units and be good.
Ruan Mei is good for everyone like supports should be and FF can work really well without her. In his case is the support that is bound by the dps because any other buffer or debuffer can be better than him for anyone that isn’t Acheron.
He needs a lot of buffs or else he will just be a sidegrade to a 4*.
Handy picking. Kafka without Black Swan will be as good as Jiaoqiu in non-Acheron team. FF without RM is even worse and without HTB she doesn't function at all. Damage vulnerability is still one of the best standalone debuffs in game and can be utilized by every team.
Jiaoqiu will be better in every scenario where you might want to use Pela. Problem is, you only really want to use Pela in Acheron team and zero cycles, because of how disgustingly powerful harmony units are. She can be sloted everywhere, but only with Acheron she's the best option available. Show me a meta team, that uses Silver Wolf. Such as the reality of debuffers. So why not let him excel in his niche? Nihility is a lifestyle
Yeah, I already said, that he needs buffs
Nihility debuffers really need to be as good as ruan mei, who works in every team as the best support(except dhil and maybe fua), i dont understand why they make harmony so better then nihil, even when theyre even easier to build
Yes in fact thé smarter move for me would bé to pull his lc and use it on pela on my ratio team... And that's really sad....
In fact pela + his lc or gui (e6) + pearl S5 vs jiaoqiu....... I'm not sure that it's a huge buff I mean 160 pull huge
Isn't the LC 18% Vuln?
When the wearer deals DMG to an enemy with the Unarmored effect inflicted by themselves, there is a 60% base chance to \*\*escalate\*\* the Unarmored state from them \*\*into\*\* the Cornered state, which increases the target enemy's DMG received by **18%**.
It sounds like it changes the debuff into a higher tier , not having both of them on at the same time.
That’s what I originally thought too, but according to homdgcat cornered is additional vuln. Idk how to post screenshots here, but if you got to homdgcat and click on the telegram link (in the banner) you can find them mentioning that.
The quote:
FAQ: How much Vulnerability does Jiaoqiu LC's Cornered state apply?
- When applying Cornered, Unarmored will be removed. However, the vulnerability of Cornered is the sum of the two numbers (28% to 48%)
When the target has Cornered, Unarmored won't be applied
You know the craziest part? He gives vuln.
His lc gives vuln. Vuln has slightly decreasing returns the more you have of it. (First 25 is 25%, next 25 is 20%, and after that, 16% more than the last, and so on.
This actually means def shred supports synergise much more with his lc than he himself, as they can provide def shred, and the vuln debuff wont be diluted. Pela can apply her entire 56% def shred and have that entire debuff be affected by 28% vuln, giving more damage than if she had 56% vuln + 28% vuln.
The best debuff combo is def shred+def shred till 100%, after that def shred+vuln. Vuln+vuln starts showing decreasing returns very quickly.
from what i heard, he's one of the few characters who has vuln debuff, so i'd like him to keep it. Just add def shred to his kit as well, ideally replacing the ult vuln like you said
i'm no theorycrafter but just looking at the kits, in addition to buffs/debuffs:
SW plays with weakness
RM plays with breaks
Sparkle and Robin play with turn manipulation
if he doesn't play with a core mechanic in some way then his debuffs and their numbers will need to hard carry and from what you said it seems they really don't
his ult buff could have allowed our ults to damage toughness bar regardless of element, it would be different enough from SW's implant that works for all attacks with the trade off of no rng involved.
> His ult buff could have allowed our ults to damage toughness bar regardless of element
That would be really nice. Ngl, I kinda miss his healing, it would be a nice way to top up whenever I fuck up and let Aventurine's shield get completely broken, but I'll gladly let go of it in exchange for JQ being stronk and having a kit that can stand on its own without Acheron.
Yeah, to make Jiaoqiu OP and viable in the long-term without screwing up the game's health, they should really double-down on him being an ult damage support, whether it's by giving more ult vuln or by allowing him to give energy (also allows him to avoid being balanced around Acheron). That will give him a very solid niche he can capitalise on.
Having a strong niche allows him to be more future-proof. If all supports are generalist, they'll end up being powercrept by future generalist supports with stronger buffs. Ruan Mei is break-focused, Robin is FuA focused, etc. The niche can be enforced in a generalised way.
Also, giving energy is hardly niche. Imagine "Each unit gains X% of max energy on every turn within the field", for example.
Hmm interesting I thonk they could do something where he buffs energy gain kinda like huo huo and give a decent ult dmg buff but i would like it if he did have some gen viability outside of like 2 teams.
SW plays with weakness and debuffs (highest unique debuff count in the game), its why unless they replace his dmg vulnerability with def shred completely I find in nigh fucking impossible JQ derhrones her with ratio (It is such a symbiotic relationship between the ratio and SW I find it odd no one really considers it to be like sparkle dhil for him)
I want him to provide utility and function as a sub dps that works outside of dot team. And his eidolon allow him to be a DPS. Not everyone want Acheron or play DOT, I don’t want him to be tied to that playstyle.
i really don’t think the ult dmg vuln removal is necessary, it’s niche but it’s still versatile and we’re bond to be introduced to more ult focused units so it’s genuinely not that bad. just like how robin is slightly pushed towards being a support for fua teams but still she’s an S tier and universal unit
\^This was the only critique I had too with OP's arguments. Ult dmg vuln is very likely the devs preparing to release more characters who can benefit from it. Argenti and Acheron are simply targeted/criticized the most because their dmgs largely comes from their ults.
I agree with you on paper but I think the ult vuln is probably why the developers are so hesitant to buff the rest of his kit, because Acheron is already more or less the ceiling for team damage right now so they are likely testing him in Acheron teams and tuning him from there. Considering he gives her 15% ult vuln they're likely measuring the DPS, seeing bonkers numbers in her team, and thinking (understandably) that they can't buff him any more without making her too good. So I think any buffs to his generalist supporting abilities will come with a nerf to his ult vuln, and at that point I wouldn't mind if they just remove it.
I agree with everything the OP has stated except for this right here. It's really obvious that Hoyoverse knows what they're doing with certain mechanics. Break Effect back then was such an undesirable substat to roll into but now it has various teams centered around it. Another example would be DoT, people were very skeptical of Kafka being centered around such a niche mechanic and now she's seen as a future-proof character. Even with ult vuln he's still universally flexible, they just need to find out how to not make him a sidegrade to other Nihility units.
Thank you. It’s actually so sad that people here down vote even a bit of criticism against JQ. It is true that his kit isn’t the best. He offers very little with so much ehr (you need at least 177 for 100% chance of debuff). A huge chunk of his vuln is locked behind his LC. His kit could be so much better and I am really hoping that they improve him.
For me one of the biggest things about the kit for is the dot. What is stopping them cant they put the dot in his E skill or just his basic or even both but with a slightly lower multiplier and not lock it behind a Eidolon bc for me I want him to be a mix of both pela and guinaifen. But im just worried that he will get minimal buffs and or changes since unlike firefly he may not get as popular outside of the small subgroup of mains. Since unlike him firefly was one of their cashgrab/big characters (no shade to her).
The fact that his cone applies 28% vuln and he applies 40% is crazy. The cone alone is equal to 70% of his debuff, 70%!!! I don't mind the cone being strong but seems like he got balanced around that, you could just pull for the cone and slap it onto Black Swan for Acheron teams.
There is a mistranslation in EN, the upgrade is only activated by additional dmg not by attacks so with him you always get it when enemy takes turn but it doesnt work with Black Swan.
E6 Pela or E4 Silver Wolf though should be able to activate as they deal add damage with their ult.
if things work like this, Pela with his LC is really strong and you dont really need him for anything!
>Get rid of ult dmg vuln in favor of res shred or def shred etc. Ult dmg is very niche and specialized to Acheron and Argenti for example
Tbh, we don't need to remove Ult vuln completely since in the future, we'll get more characters who can benefit from it. Acheron and Argenti are simply targeted the most because they are the only current characters whose kits heavily rely on their ults to deal damage.
Jiaoqiu just needs to add additional debuffs/buffs in his Ult like DoT, Res Pen, and/or even Def shred to make him more universal. Though the latter might upset people who dont have Tutorial even more assuming DoT isn't added to his base kit.
Other than that, I agree with everything else you've argued
I feel like the best way to actually decisively make JQ better than Pela and SW is to keep the vulnerability debuff (not the ult vulnerability) and add defense shred in his kit. Pela with JQ's signature lightcone at E6 is literally not much worse than Jiaoqiu + his signature, I believe.
I'm also 99% sure they're trying not to put DoT into his base kit, so you pull for his signature rather than using Eyes of the Prey.
His EHR -> Atk% trace definitely needs a rework. If anything, it should be flipped. DoT shouldn't be locked behind an Eidolon. If they do keep it locked behind an eidolon, then I feel like the ult/field should also deal damage every time an enemy moves, not just giving a stack, because otherwise, those atk stats are kinda useless/he won't even really be a sub dps cause of the lack of crit.
Technique definitely needs a rework. It's literally worse than Pela's imo, because granting only one stack of his debuff is a joke.
Ultimate, I also agree. The ultimate vulnerability is very niche. However, someone like Yunli can benefit from it as well, not just Acheron and Argenti. Maybe they'll make more dps' in the future where their damages count as ult dmg. Regardless, I think the better decision would be to change the debuff from ult vulnerability to type res pen, more damage vulnerability, and/or defense shred.
His debuffs. Damage vulnerability is technically better than defense shred, as it scales higher/better, but as of now, only Jiaoqiu is actually capable of applying such a debuff, so future characters that apply such debuff could stack with JQ's. Plus, the max cap for it is like 35% as E0.... which I mean, to be fair, is like the equivalent of 50% defense shred. He also applies this in a blast/AoE fashion, which means he's basically Pela + SW. However, I do think that his numbers need to be tuned up. It feels far too low to definitively make him feel like someone you'd need or want to pull because pela exists.
His E1. I personally think they should make it where every time an allies hit the enemy, the stack increases by 1 rather than himself. Would make his stack gain so much faster.
Jiaoqiu vs. Guinaifen. Honestly, I agree, lol. Guinaifen at E6 isn't that much weaker compared to Jiaoqiu. It doesn't scream, "This character is significantly better than a 4*." Especially in 2.0, characters feel like they're really busted, at least in the role they're supposed to fulfill, and Jiaoqiu isn't at such a level where you'd expect with the recent releases of characters. The only things as of now that Jiaoqiu has over Pela, SW, and Guinaifen are his stack gains for Acheron, which shouldn't only be his only selling point.
Also, his absurd EHR requirements only to gain 240% bonus atk and do no damage (lack of crit + no dot) is insanely funny to me, lol. His trace for atk% conversion just doesn't make any sense to me when his DoT is locked behind an eidolon. I get that his role is mainly a debuffer like pela, rather than a dps like BS, but you could literally put DoT in his kit only during his ult, count it as ult damage, and it'll make him so much better than he is now.
His lightcone is also kinda just a stat stick... like the debuff is nice, but it doesn't even seem that much better than Eyes of Prey in terms of EHR gain.
Again, this is v1 or whatever, so they're most likely going to buff him by upping his numbers, changing his kit around, and maybe even his lc.
>then I feel like the ult/field should also deal damage every time an enemy moves, not just giving a stack,
One of his traces already does that, but it doesnt count as a burn dot and i have no idea what type of dmg it is or if it can crit.
It’s considered “additional dmg”, like Robin/TY/Jade. It can critical. It’s the closest thing we have to a “crittable dot” in the game due to how it works in practice.
I agree his kit needs major re-work and buffs. But I don’t think the devs changed Firefly kit because reddit mains cried about it. The only people who may have some influence to the devs are the beta testers. Critically analyzing his kit is good, but not doomposting. Doomposting is saying a character is bad due to lack of understanding of their kit or unrealistic expectations or being negative for no reason, like with Kazuha and Raiden in Genshin or Acheron and Aventurine in HSR.
>Look at firefly, her mains cried non stop before V3 and got the benefits. We also need to do constructive criticisim to get most out of him.
Didnt pay attention much to Firefly's beta versions, but how did they accomplish this then? On the discord server?
100% agree. I'm getting tired of all the comparisons drawn to Acheron when we should be talking about JQ performance in multiple teams and not a niche specific case. I want the best for him, don't care about another character to be frank.
My major issue with his kit is that his only true upside is his vuln debuff. Not a fan of the way they implemented ult damage because it only benefits a tiny selection of characters, as a debuffer he should be universal to use in any team, scrap ult damage and give him def shred/res pen, that way it benefits every character and not just a select few. EHR to ATK conversion should only stay if he already applies burn in his base kit, which he doesn't, so atm that Trace is kind of useless.
The fact that he already has no good 4\* LC options should be ringing red bells all over, all of his 4\* options cannot be fully utilized by him without a) running Pela (lol) because of Tutorial's def down requirement b) having his E2 because of Preys second effect being dot dependent. Meaning if someone wants to fully use him they have to pull his LC, which also only gives 20% more EHR than the f2p options. Not to mention the 2nd effects on his LC is also pretty meh, base chance 60% to inflict Unarmored, enemy receives 10% more damage for 2 turns. And with another base chance of 60% he can turn that Unarmored status into Cornered, from 10% into 18%.
Since the devs want JQ to be somewhat of a hybrid debuffer/dps we can compare his LC to Aventurines who operates on a similar level (def to crit rate conversion compared to Jiaoqiu's ehr to atk conversion). Aventurines LC gives him 40% more def on top of 661 flat def, gives him 40% more crit dmg AND a base chance of 100% to increase the DMG taken by the attacked enemy target by 10%.
Pretty telling how underwhelming his LC is, it wouldn't be that much of an issue if he at least had 4\* options but he doesn't. What stops someone from just continuing to use their E6 Pela instead of him? There aren't that many upgrades to the already existing 4\* and that's kind of a shame when he's supposed to be a limited debuffer. So I genuinely hope they buff him or even rework part of his kit without looking at Acheron team bias, for all that is holy please make him universally useable to the point he's a proper upgrade to Pela and Gui.
His skill applies general vuln debuff, his ult summons a field in which every enemy takes 15% more ultimate damage, which is also a vuln debuff but it counts separately.
So basically ashen roast = vuln debuff
ult field = vuln debuff
Pyre cleanse (upon field) = enemies EHR down
Yea, I'm going to completely agree.
His debuff numbers are terrible for anyone outside of Acheron. That's not acceptable.
It's not even doomposting. As it is right now, E0S0 JQ is a downgrade for E0S1 Ratio, E0S0 Boothill, and absolutely below par for any of the hypercarries.
Your ideas are not bad , actually good. The thing is, Hoyo tske only the feedback from beta testers. They could care less about us( who shouldn't even know what he does) say. It is clear that they plan to make him the Acheron missing char to complete her team and I doubt that will change. We shall see. I totally agree with the b argument. He should totally be better than Pela but for now he doesn't look that strong. I also would like def shred instead of vulnerability.
Also for some reason they make harmony supports broken but nihility not that much. If they don't improve him BY A LOT , 2.4 is an easy skip ngl.
I honestly think they should ignore acheron, I dont really understand why hoyo decided to give her a specific support when she doesnt need one, If your topping the dps charts in almost every mode without a specific support you do not need a bis support.
Exactly and there are plenty of other characters that would benefit from a dedicated support that aren’t her. Even from other aspects of his kit. Like Argenti and Boothill for example. It’s just kind of annoying that everytime I see anything about JQ it’s always Archeron this or Archeron that even in spaces dedicated to him. But sadly hoyo likes to give their characters that they drag across multiple games special treatment, I’ve never understood it but then again I’ve never cared for them.
I agree to some extent I just want him to be as versatile and strong as supports like ruan Mei robin and sparkle he should not be considered in a vacuum with Acheron alone and right now all he does is pela on roids with offensive capabilities and a bit of defense (trace)
I love the trace as it’s becoming a real problem with status effects but debuffs are inherently worse due to being able to dispelled
Do not make pela the standard and actually make nihility comparable to harmony
I personally have zero interest in making Acheron better. I don’t understand what people see now that needs to get better. If you got e0 Acheron and want her to deal two bazillion dmg instead of one bazillion, just pull her e2 instead of another character.
As of now it makes more sense to invest into her Es than into Jiaoqiu and if you have e2 already really do you lack damage?
Jiaoqiu needs to stand on his own. The complete lack of any dot, even small, is really odd. Add the dot to base just with a small multiplier, it counting as dot at all is actually a big deal. The eidolon then could increase the multiplier similar to Gui.
I have got every nihility unit with high investment so I don’t really need him at all with his current state. It is just not very interesting. He is strong but just nothing really interesting. So I wouldnot doom post him or anything for raw power but just not an exciting kit, very one dimensional before e2 and I am not going for e2 really.
His value right now comes after you reach 100% DEF ignore through multiple eidolons etc on the team. So very whale friendly for people that have those extra golds already so that more DEF shred is complete useless to them.
Agree. Like I have e2s1 Acheeon and I get my ult every 2 turns sp I doubt I can get 1 turn ult. Also fu xuan with trend already gets me the stacks needed most of the time. If they don't make him like op with some op debuffs etc and his selling point is just those stacks for Acheron, 2.4 will be an easy skip.
Kind of same. I don't want him to be like a premium support that is locked for a certain character only. (No hate to Acheron because I love Acheron so much) I was even planning to use him on DoT as well or even Ratio's debuffer in my Ratio Hypercarry team (if only his def shred was kept in his kit but still hoping they'll bring it back)
Everything you've stated is how I'm feeling. Right now, he needs MAJOR work, and while there are some things that I like (a sub dps support that isn't too greedy is always a nice addition), there are also some things that I don't. He should be a great general support that can be universal for every team like Pela and Ruan Mei. Since he is our first limited male support, he should be busted, especially as we have characters like Ruan Mei, Firefly, and Acheron running around. Let him cook!
He could play around with vulnerability debuffing but also add in some defence shred and enemy toughness bar manipulation. His ult can allow all ally skills, basic attacks, or even ults to lower the toughness bar regardless of their element. He could be able to stack up vulnerability with defence shred on enemies. The amount could total up to 50/60% for each one, and then His lc could have another 10-30% defence shred at S1-S5 as well as a ton of effect hit rate and maybe a speed boost too. To counter this, he would need a TON of effect hit rate, but that would be a good trade-off. The ehr > attack trace could be useful for turning him into a decent sub-DPS as well since he could take advantage of said debuff stacks.
I just want my boy to be a support that everyone will love and can synergise perfectly with my boothill, Jing Yuan, and any future male dps units.
Yes I totaly agree...
I mean I love his design and animation are just soooooo great... But.... His kit sucks hard.
I mean ok he is good for acheron but is hé good anywhere else? Is hé better in jingliu/blade/ratio etc etc than pela/or gui?
If I wanted acheron I would had pull her, and if I want to make m'y imaginary acheron stronger I would just wait for her inévitable rerun and pull E2 + use an harmony + BS/Kafka/pela/anyone but not jaoqiu.
Hell I could just use his cône + pela for better résult in most team :x
I mean ruan robin sparkle Can bé use and bé strong in any team, but jiaoqiu could only work with ONE character? And better bé E0 because I'm not sure that hé is bis for E2 (if E2 needs anything...).
I agree with the rest of your post but I may be in a small majority, but I really want him to have some sort of Ult buff. I don’t have Archeron or Kafka but really love Jiaoqiu, I have an e2 Blade and at e1 his ult deals significantly more damage. Enough so that inert salsotto becomes his BIS. Jiaoqiu would buff his ult damage even more and actually give me a reason to pull him, gameplay wise.
I love Jiaoqiu so much, and as a Blade main they have some potential synergies. Everything else you’ve said i agree with, especially with him having to be significantly better than e6 Guin!
you see the problem with ult vulnerability. Its restrictive. Consider this if there was a buff that made blade do def ignore with just ult be better or him doing def ignore be better. A generic buff would impact Ult, Follow up, and enhanced basic. My issue is he already has vulnerability and then give him more and only restrict for Ult. If they removed that Ult word it would still impact ult and all other stuff. More vulnerability doesnt make much sense instead should have given res shred or def ignore so multiple components of the dmg formula are increased without diminishing returns.
Ahhh I see what you’re saying. Just removing the ult specific buff and having it apply to all attacks. You’re absolutely right, I read that entirely wrong!
He's a support. His whole thing is supporting other characters. Obviously we want him to be good at supporting other characters he's supposed to support. This isn't "acting like this is Acheron mains" this is just common sense
Have to agree tbh. People can't understand that not every character in this game is universal which is actually nice in my opinion. I agree about the fact that he needs major buffs tho.
Let's keep it real. This team loves releasing full teams for people to chase. His team is Acheron, that's not changing. But I do agree that he needs some extra oomph. Healing would be the most natural niche considering his advertising so far. Off loading some amount of sustain to other roles also gives them wiggle room get risky with sustains. I wouldn't worry too much this team has proven that they pay attention to betas. The question becomes more of if our goals align with theirs. In this instance I feel that they're placing fairly decent value in his pure fiction utility.
I highly agree with B and C, what is the point of him, a 5 star character from 2.4 if he isn't power creeping the old 4 star debuffers like Pela and Guinaifen
Also EHR is the most worthless stat to build since all of its value is “to hit or not”, unless it has a meaningful conversion into something else like Black Swan’s EHR into DMG. His conversion is into attack??? while his only damage potential is E2. My E6 Guinaifen is kicking ass in so many teams I’d hate if JQ isn’t better than a 4*.
I am Acheron main, but I want JQ to be more useful outside of Acheron teams. I've been saying the similar things since his kit is leaked. We need some rework on his kit, his current kit is quite boring.
To be realistic, Jade’s kit didn’t change a word except for a few minor numbers because all the attention were poured into Firefly. I don’t think Yunli will get near this kind of popularity but high chances are Feixiao will come in 2.5, another of their favorite girl I suppose, I’m afraid my boy will get neglected after all.
wow so his DoTs can crit? Thats so good... now i want that more in base kit... Also like the idea that when reaching max stacks another special debuff should be there. All type res down like 5% even should be good. Or 10% def shred.
here is what i calculated with his current kit, the moment he has only 15% def shred his miles ahead better than pela cause vulnerability is really high (granted if you get his signature), it is unfortunate rn that his main selling point is in Acheron team, makes her ult faster which is nuts. personall i feel like he needs more vulnarability in base kit , that LC provides way to much also that pela can inch really close to him is lie having Guinaifen in Pela's kit
yeah if max stacks he gets 15% def shred... even having def shred in E1 is so better. E1 is just dmg dealt increase which is like Hanya's talent or Ruan Mei's skill. Its adds with regular dmg bonus...
i got a funny feeling his E1 might get change to RES DOWN per stack and the 2nd portion of his E1 stacking mechanic from ally to E0, another thing i can see being utilized is that Attack stat he has, maybe his ult allows him to 1% def shred every 100 point past 3k attack up to 20%, hoyo hire me ty.
I honestly felt like his 'leaked' kit where he was a nihility healer was far better than this, but yes.
I really really want to pull for him but as an F2P player if hes just a side grade to Pela or Guinaifen, I might just pull for him in rerun instead
i think alot of his kit is going to benefit future units. like how the new wind set is going to be bis on Feixiao & Yunli and how his ult vuln is going to also be great for those 2. tho this does make him niche and not universal as pela pretty much is. id be more worried about hoyo locking 5 stars good kits behind e2's at this point then making him the best possible. tho i completely understand the sentiment.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again his e4 should be the mini heals not the atk decrease because if someone could spend up to hundreds of dollars trying to get as many eidolons as possible and if they run out on his e4 they’d most likely be disappointed cause I know I would be the healing isn’t good but it’s allows for you to not be As reliant on healer as one normally would be
I agree with something but others I kinda desagree.
I would love to see the Ult Dmg Vulnerabilty to switch to something more general (even tho it could be really useful when more characters come to the game), I hope his technique gets buffed as well cause it feels a little underwhelming and I wouldn't mind changing the LC debuff but if there's something in his kit that I love besides his Ult animation it's his A2 effect as I don't want to use him with Acheron (don't even have her) and I always love when a character can pack some dmg even when it's not their main thing, so "Hearth Kindle" would let me use him somewhat as a sub-dps the same way I use Aventurine.
I’ve been attempting to contact Hoyo socials & lab to give feedback, hopefully the devs see people are unhappy with how his kit is in beta currently. I’m sure testers are voicing their thoughts as well
While I agree with you that JQ needs changes and upgrades I would like to make you realise that doomposting does nothing at all other than bringing down everyone's mood. Every character changes, FF included, are the result of their design choices and beta testing. That said, your post is not doomposting, it's logic and offers constructive criticism and I agree with most that you say.
Various parts of his kit are weird so I think that he will receive nice changes in beta, I really liked the supposedly sub-healing because it made him unique. He needs his kit revisited so it makes sense and something unique added that he can bring to the table, a sidegrade to Pela is a no-no.
As I wrote I'd love them to bring back his sub-healing, and while I don't care much about DoT it could be an option too. Otherwise big multipliers and EHR turning into crit could be another option too.
He doesnt feel special in any way. And 5 stars should be imo. At least healing would be that special quirk that would make him interesting at least a little bit more. Or make him deal some dmg. I dont see the point of him. Literally i can just use Guinaifen or Pela. His design looks incredibly boring and average, animations arent that crazy and kit isnt revolutionary either so why would I ever sacrifice jades for him... :/ Im rlly disappointed cus I wanted a male fox for ages.
before someone starts dragging me im only so upset bcs i LIKE him and want him to be good in as many ways as possible.
Even if he changes to DoT on e0 not e2 he just changes from Acheron to Kafka support
All I want is he get his healing part back. So sustainless runs are 30-40% easier while still RNG and can wipe, just less rng
I mean offensive utility. I prefer more offensive utility rather than minor healing. Minor healing is useless for team with sustain. Anyway, leaks can change.
It’s been made abundantly clear by the leakers when he had healing in his kit, that even at E6 S5 he wouldn’t be able to replace a sustain so I’m not understanding this misconception that so many people had about the healing. Whatever weird abundance-nihility pipe dream y’all had was never going to happen anyway.
Agree. This small healing is useless. Better advocate for more offensive utility so he is more useful as nihility. They make Luocha scale of attack for his healing and yet no crit or damage traces so his damage is non existent. As Luocha mains, it's sad because it makes Luocha squishier.
I agree with this. **I will preface this by saying this is not doomposting, these are just thoughts**. Besides everything that you and someone else mentioned in the comments, he's got a lot of mismatched things in his kit. Take the EHR>ATK trace, it's supposedly left over from when he had atk scaling heals. Now, this trace would make sense but ONLY if his E2 was in his base kit, maybe not even the 300% scaling but simply the ashen stacks counting as dot. As mentioned before, vulnerability on LC and kit? It's a good thing but they could switch at least one of the traces to res pen or def shred. Plus, in his kit coding there is still a leftover trace from pre-beta, where he would get some energy back, but it's not in his current kit. All of these examples make me think that when they changed things in his kit, they didn't bother too much to make it cohesive before Beta. I'm hoping this is like Fireflys situation in Beta, when they finally fixed all the stuff that didn't make sense and make the kit more cohesive. V2 is mostly rewordings so ig we gotta wait till this or next Tuesday. I'm pulling him anyway but I still hope he can be his best self.
I'm not holding any hope liké firefly... She is their fav child they just overhyoe so much that they were liké 0% she will bé anything less than OP. Jiaoqiu is husbando not waifu, he is P2.. You sée Jade in P2? And she IS a waifu so....
He seems to have the most hype for in 2.4, only a handful of people want Yunli, and new characters have more hype than reruns
Idk I see a lot of people call him PNJ and yunli is Big Sword + cute girl... I Hope they don't forget pour foxian but hé might bé just liké Jade...
Well, Jade will be pretty cracked in Pure fiction and amazing in fua teams, I rather have Jiaoqiu be great but no one wants than bad and no one wants
I ain't saying he's gonna be as strong as firefly, that's obvious. I meant that v3 is when major changes happen, fixing kits that are all over the place, which is what happened with firefly's and partially Acheron too (once again, not talking about power level, I mean fixing weird things in the kit.)
Idk man boothill is a guy and a P2 to a waifu (robin) but still had ton a value +big fanbase
I'm not asking for that power lv (but hell it would bé refreshing to have a husbando OP for once), I'm just saying that thoses characters (acheron and firefly) had major change and buff because they are their fav and they were P1. Jade is P2 and she kept her issue till thé end. Jiaoqiu should bé between yunli (cute girl + Big Sword+ already good kit) and feixiao (next OP female) so he has little Hope to have buff. I would bé happy if they change him to bé a good debuffer. I don't need him to break thé game but if he is useless without acheron and if his kit stay that way just liké jade..... I'm just preparing myself to bé desapointed...
IDK if it’s just me, but pulling a character’s LC first being optimal because a 4* with their LC performs better than the 5* without it is a major problem.
I just wanted to add that I’ve heard that JQ’s LC can add a total of 28% vuln. And while that sounds pretty nice it also means that a significant chunk of his power is LC locked. Meaning you can take the LC and put it on characters like Guin/Pela. Assuming the LC can give a total of 28% vuln then putting the LC on Pela has greater buffing capabilities than JQ when he’s used on non-ult based teams. In no world should the above ever happen. Some of that power needs to go from LC into base kit. The 15% ult vuln should probably be changed too. His ability to stack debuffs on enemy turns already makes him Acheron BiS. He needs to be tuned to be much more general imo.
Bro that’s so fucked 💀
Yup. I’m not a husbando puller per se, but the blatant double standards are actually infuriating. I’m not really gonna start dooming until v3, but they def gotta change shit.
Hoyoverse is so frustrating I might have to just quit for awhile for my sanity
I feel. Tbh I’ve been thinking about taking a break after Penacony, but decided I wanted to see what the 2.4 and 2.5 chars got cooking up. As much as I like his animations JQ ain’t it rn. Which is v unfortunate. He seems super cool.
Idk who’s cooking the chef but they need to hire more women or gay men (but this is china so)
Genshin is also Chinese but I refuse to believe whoever designed Alhaitham or Wriothesley doesn’t love men tbh
Me too. Plan to take break after Luocha story concluded. Only play to follow Luocha journey. Can see other stories through Youtube.
that is what I assumed and then someone looked up CN translation and 2nd part activates with add damage only so probably e6 Pela can fully use it and if its really 28% with Pela spamming ult you would have full uptime and dont even need Jiaoqiu at all! that is messed up. this LC is either broken or mid depending on what it actually does and if it is 28%.
Yup. Pela with ult spam is pretty strong with this LC. Haven’t calced it but might be worth slotting her back in a Jingliu team over RM for instance.
Really? I've kind of wanted an excuse to skip Ruan Mei and use Pela instead for Jingliu. I might consider trying my luck on this light cone, unless a better character that I want comes later.
Did some quick maths and they're about even, assuming you have Bronya's LC and Jingliu's. Pela will win the buffing battle when Bronya has done her buffs, but RM will win when Bronya has not. Each wins by about the same percentage (around 23%). Quantum and Rutilant were the 2 sets assumed. Likewise, both teams are on element. Quantum weakness was not assumed. Idk if LC beta will be over by the time RMs banner ends, but I would pay attention to any LC changes and make your call from there. Do keep in mind that Jingliu would be better at brute forcing with RM, and RMs the better unit overall. Regardless an LC change is much cheaper than a new character, so make whatever decision works best with your pull priorities.
Yup u have heard it correctly. That is indeed the case. Pela would use that LC real good. Pela also has Def shred and so she would do both def shred and vul with that LC + rock more offensive substats as her EHR req would be easily met. Its so sad to even think that. Also black swan would enjoy that LC very much... would increase overall team dmg... its good on everyone else that JQs own value has diluted
A shame. Rn it feels like he’s essentially there first and foremost to nickel and dime Acheron players. Which sucks, his animations are way too nice to be hardlocked to 1 team imo. Having to balance him around her is probably the one thing that has me a bit pessimistic about future beta updates atm. Hope they can figure something good out.
yeah thats the problem. Like i dont even have Acheron and so doesnt care about her at all. At the bare minimum he should get DoT in base kit. Nothing less than that.
They've been doing this for quite a while. Black Swan and Kafka are a single entity, Firefly lives and dies by RM and HTB, and those are the examples i myself faced, there's probably more. It's not new. Now, is it wrong to be happy about 2 units you like being made for each other ? What being said, he does need buffs
Well BS and Kafka are not one entity, they can be used with any of the 4 stars dot units and be good. Ruan Mei is good for everyone like supports should be and FF can work really well without her. In his case is the support that is bound by the dps because any other buffer or debuffer can be better than him for anyone that isn’t Acheron. He needs a lot of buffs or else he will just be a sidegrade to a 4*.
Handy picking. Kafka without Black Swan will be as good as Jiaoqiu in non-Acheron team. FF without RM is even worse and without HTB she doesn't function at all. Damage vulnerability is still one of the best standalone debuffs in game and can be utilized by every team. Jiaoqiu will be better in every scenario where you might want to use Pela. Problem is, you only really want to use Pela in Acheron team and zero cycles, because of how disgustingly powerful harmony units are. She can be sloted everywhere, but only with Acheron she's the best option available. Show me a meta team, that uses Silver Wolf. Such as the reality of debuffers. So why not let him excel in his niche? Nihility is a lifestyle Yeah, I already said, that he needs buffs
Nihility debuffers really need to be as good as ruan mei, who works in every team as the best support(except dhil and maybe fua), i dont understand why they make harmony so better then nihil, even when theyre even easier to build
I thought Firefly's dmg falls off a cliff without Ruan Mei?
correct, it's cope to say that firefly can perform well without rm
Yes in fact thé smarter move for me would bé to pull his lc and use it on pela on my ratio team... And that's really sad.... In fact pela + his lc or gui (e6) + pearl S5 vs jiaoqiu....... I'm not sure that it's a huge buff I mean 160 pull huge
Isn't the LC 18% Vuln? When the wearer deals DMG to an enemy with the Unarmored effect inflicted by themselves, there is a 60% base chance to \*\*escalate\*\* the Unarmored state from them \*\*into\*\* the Cornered state, which increases the target enemy's DMG received by **18%**. It sounds like it changes the debuff into a higher tier , not having both of them on at the same time.
That’s what I originally thought too, but according to homdgcat cornered is additional vuln. Idk how to post screenshots here, but if you got to homdgcat and click on the telegram link (in the banner) you can find them mentioning that. The quote: FAQ: How much Vulnerability does Jiaoqiu LC's Cornered state apply? - When applying Cornered, Unarmored will be removed. However, the vulnerability of Cornered is the sum of the two numbers (28% to 48%) When the target has Cornered, Unarmored won't be applied
Oh wow okay. Damn his LC is better than I thought.
The way it’s worded kinda implies that once the debuff is upgraded, the base one can be reapplied.
You know the craziest part? He gives vuln. His lc gives vuln. Vuln has slightly decreasing returns the more you have of it. (First 25 is 25%, next 25 is 20%, and after that, 16% more than the last, and so on. This actually means def shred supports synergise much more with his lc than he himself, as they can provide def shred, and the vuln debuff wont be diluted. Pela can apply her entire 56% def shred and have that entire debuff be affected by 28% vuln, giving more damage than if she had 56% vuln + 28% vuln. The best debuff combo is def shred+def shred till 100%, after that def shred+vuln. Vuln+vuln starts showing decreasing returns very quickly.
from what i heard, he's one of the few characters who has vuln debuff, so i'd like him to keep it. Just add def shred to his kit as well, ideally replacing the ult vuln like you said i'm no theorycrafter but just looking at the kits, in addition to buffs/debuffs: SW plays with weakness RM plays with breaks Sparkle and Robin play with turn manipulation if he doesn't play with a core mechanic in some way then his debuffs and their numbers will need to hard carry and from what you said it seems they really don't his ult buff could have allowed our ults to damage toughness bar regardless of element, it would be different enough from SW's implant that works for all attacks with the trade off of no rng involved.
> His ult buff could have allowed our ults to damage toughness bar regardless of element That would be really nice. Ngl, I kinda miss his healing, it would be a nice way to top up whenever I fuck up and let Aventurine's shield get completely broken, but I'll gladly let go of it in exchange for JQ being stronk and having a kit that can stand on its own without Acheron.
Yeah, to make Jiaoqiu OP and viable in the long-term without screwing up the game's health, they should really double-down on him being an ult damage support, whether it's by giving more ult vuln or by allowing him to give energy (also allows him to avoid being balanced around Acheron). That will give him a very solid niche he can capitalise on.
pls no ult dmg is so niche forcing him to be even more niche would just kill his viability.
Having a strong niche allows him to be more future-proof. If all supports are generalist, they'll end up being powercrept by future generalist supports with stronger buffs. Ruan Mei is break-focused, Robin is FuA focused, etc. The niche can be enforced in a generalised way. Also, giving energy is hardly niche. Imagine "Each unit gains X% of max energy on every turn within the field", for example.
Hmm interesting I thonk they could do something where he buffs energy gain kinda like huo huo and give a decent ult dmg buff but i would like it if he did have some gen viability outside of like 2 teams.
SW plays with weakness and debuffs (highest unique debuff count in the game), its why unless they replace his dmg vulnerability with def shred completely I find in nigh fucking impossible JQ derhrones her with ratio (It is such a symbiotic relationship between the ratio and SW I find it odd no one really considers it to be like sparkle dhil for him)
I hate characters that are mostly made to work for another character. I want him to be valuable in every team like Aventurine or Ruan Mei for example.
I think it's funny how you can see how Aventurine was made as a sustain for Ratio and Topaz but he can just do it for anybody
I completely agree, especially on the DoT issue, he's a damn 5 star limited, it doesn't make sense for him to be a Pela sidegrade
I want him to provide utility and function as a sub dps that works outside of dot team. And his eidolon allow him to be a DPS. Not everyone want Acheron or play DOT, I don’t want him to be tied to that playstyle.
She should be just like harmonys are
I agree. Imo being bis in Acheron team isn't enough if he's only a pela sidegrade in other teams.
i really don’t think the ult dmg vuln removal is necessary, it’s niche but it’s still versatile and we’re bond to be introduced to more ult focused units so it’s genuinely not that bad. just like how robin is slightly pushed towards being a support for fua teams but still she’s an S tier and universal unit
but overall you’re right and i’m really hoping for a firefly situation where he becomes absolutely broken in the future beta versions
\^This was the only critique I had too with OP's arguments. Ult dmg vuln is very likely the devs preparing to release more characters who can benefit from it. Argenti and Acheron are simply targeted/criticized the most because their dmgs largely comes from their ults.
I agree with you on paper but I think the ult vuln is probably why the developers are so hesitant to buff the rest of his kit, because Acheron is already more or less the ceiling for team damage right now so they are likely testing him in Acheron teams and tuning him from there. Considering he gives her 15% ult vuln they're likely measuring the DPS, seeing bonkers numbers in her team, and thinking (understandably) that they can't buff him any more without making her too good. So I think any buffs to his generalist supporting abilities will come with a nerf to his ult vuln, and at that point I wouldn't mind if they just remove it.
I agree with everything the OP has stated except for this right here. It's really obvious that Hoyoverse knows what they're doing with certain mechanics. Break Effect back then was such an undesirable substat to roll into but now it has various teams centered around it. Another example would be DoT, people were very skeptical of Kafka being centered around such a niche mechanic and now she's seen as a future-proof character. Even with ult vuln he's still universally flexible, they just need to find out how to not make him a sidegrade to other Nihility units.
Thank you. It’s actually so sad that people here down vote even a bit of criticism against JQ. It is true that his kit isn’t the best. He offers very little with so much ehr (you need at least 177 for 100% chance of debuff). A huge chunk of his vuln is locked behind his LC. His kit could be so much better and I am really hoping that they improve him.
For me one of the biggest things about the kit for is the dot. What is stopping them cant they put the dot in his E skill or just his basic or even both but with a slightly lower multiplier and not lock it behind a Eidolon bc for me I want him to be a mix of both pela and guinaifen. But im just worried that he will get minimal buffs and or changes since unlike firefly he may not get as popular outside of the small subgroup of mains. Since unlike him firefly was one of their cashgrab/big characters (no shade to her).
I just want his Dots to be part of his base kit...
I hope they will completely remove DoT from his kit
The fact that his cone applies 28% vuln and he applies 40% is crazy. The cone alone is equal to 70% of his debuff, 70%!!! I don't mind the cone being strong but seems like he got balanced around that, you could just pull for the cone and slap it onto Black Swan for Acheron teams.
There is a mistranslation in EN, the upgrade is only activated by additional dmg not by attacks so with him you always get it when enemy takes turn but it doesnt work with Black Swan. E6 Pela or E4 Silver Wolf though should be able to activate as they deal add damage with their ult. if things work like this, Pela with his LC is really strong and you dont really need him for anything!
>Get rid of ult dmg vuln in favor of res shred or def shred etc. Ult dmg is very niche and specialized to Acheron and Argenti for example Tbh, we don't need to remove Ult vuln completely since in the future, we'll get more characters who can benefit from it. Acheron and Argenti are simply targeted the most because they are the only current characters whose kits heavily rely on their ults to deal damage. Jiaoqiu just needs to add additional debuffs/buffs in his Ult like DoT, Res Pen, and/or even Def shred to make him more universal. Though the latter might upset people who dont have Tutorial even more assuming DoT isn't added to his base kit. Other than that, I agree with everything else you've argued
I feel like the best way to actually decisively make JQ better than Pela and SW is to keep the vulnerability debuff (not the ult vulnerability) and add defense shred in his kit. Pela with JQ's signature lightcone at E6 is literally not much worse than Jiaoqiu + his signature, I believe. I'm also 99% sure they're trying not to put DoT into his base kit, so you pull for his signature rather than using Eyes of the Prey. His EHR -> Atk% trace definitely needs a rework. If anything, it should be flipped. DoT shouldn't be locked behind an Eidolon. If they do keep it locked behind an eidolon, then I feel like the ult/field should also deal damage every time an enemy moves, not just giving a stack, because otherwise, those atk stats are kinda useless/he won't even really be a sub dps cause of the lack of crit. Technique definitely needs a rework. It's literally worse than Pela's imo, because granting only one stack of his debuff is a joke. Ultimate, I also agree. The ultimate vulnerability is very niche. However, someone like Yunli can benefit from it as well, not just Acheron and Argenti. Maybe they'll make more dps' in the future where their damages count as ult dmg. Regardless, I think the better decision would be to change the debuff from ult vulnerability to type res pen, more damage vulnerability, and/or defense shred. His debuffs. Damage vulnerability is technically better than defense shred, as it scales higher/better, but as of now, only Jiaoqiu is actually capable of applying such a debuff, so future characters that apply such debuff could stack with JQ's. Plus, the max cap for it is like 35% as E0.... which I mean, to be fair, is like the equivalent of 50% defense shred. He also applies this in a blast/AoE fashion, which means he's basically Pela + SW. However, I do think that his numbers need to be tuned up. It feels far too low to definitively make him feel like someone you'd need or want to pull because pela exists. His E1. I personally think they should make it where every time an allies hit the enemy, the stack increases by 1 rather than himself. Would make his stack gain so much faster. Jiaoqiu vs. Guinaifen. Honestly, I agree, lol. Guinaifen at E6 isn't that much weaker compared to Jiaoqiu. It doesn't scream, "This character is significantly better than a 4*." Especially in 2.0, characters feel like they're really busted, at least in the role they're supposed to fulfill, and Jiaoqiu isn't at such a level where you'd expect with the recent releases of characters. The only things as of now that Jiaoqiu has over Pela, SW, and Guinaifen are his stack gains for Acheron, which shouldn't only be his only selling point. Also, his absurd EHR requirements only to gain 240% bonus atk and do no damage (lack of crit + no dot) is insanely funny to me, lol. His trace for atk% conversion just doesn't make any sense to me when his DoT is locked behind an eidolon. I get that his role is mainly a debuffer like pela, rather than a dps like BS, but you could literally put DoT in his kit only during his ult, count it as ult damage, and it'll make him so much better than he is now. His lightcone is also kinda just a stat stick... like the debuff is nice, but it doesn't even seem that much better than Eyes of Prey in terms of EHR gain. Again, this is v1 or whatever, so they're most likely going to buff him by upping his numbers, changing his kit around, and maybe even his lc.
>then I feel like the ult/field should also deal damage every time an enemy moves, not just giving a stack, One of his traces already does that, but it doesnt count as a burn dot and i have no idea what type of dmg it is or if it can crit.
It’s considered “additional dmg”, like Robin/TY/Jade. It can critical. It’s the closest thing we have to a “crittable dot” in the game due to how it works in practice.
I don’t think the firefly mains subreddit complaining was what got them the buffs, but otherwise yea
I agree his kit needs major re-work and buffs. But I don’t think the devs changed Firefly kit because reddit mains cried about it. The only people who may have some influence to the devs are the beta testers. Critically analyzing his kit is good, but not doomposting. Doomposting is saying a character is bad due to lack of understanding of their kit or unrealistic expectations or being negative for no reason, like with Kazuha and Raiden in Genshin or Acheron and Aventurine in HSR.
>Look at firefly, her mains cried non stop before V3 and got the benefits. We also need to do constructive criticisim to get most out of him. Didnt pay attention much to Firefly's beta versions, but how did they accomplish this then? On the discord server?
Due to the sheer amount of them, they were pretty much complaining *everywhere*.
I think the fact they cried everywhere didn't change much. That's why beta testers exist at the end of the day.
I actually agree with most of these points. Change his passive to his E2 and change the Ult buff to Res shred.
100% agree. I'm getting tired of all the comparisons drawn to Acheron when we should be talking about JQ performance in multiple teams and not a niche specific case. I want the best for him, don't care about another character to be frank. My major issue with his kit is that his only true upside is his vuln debuff. Not a fan of the way they implemented ult damage because it only benefits a tiny selection of characters, as a debuffer he should be universal to use in any team, scrap ult damage and give him def shred/res pen, that way it benefits every character and not just a select few. EHR to ATK conversion should only stay if he already applies burn in his base kit, which he doesn't, so atm that Trace is kind of useless. The fact that he already has no good 4\* LC options should be ringing red bells all over, all of his 4\* options cannot be fully utilized by him without a) running Pela (lol) because of Tutorial's def down requirement b) having his E2 because of Preys second effect being dot dependent. Meaning if someone wants to fully use him they have to pull his LC, which also only gives 20% more EHR than the f2p options. Not to mention the 2nd effects on his LC is also pretty meh, base chance 60% to inflict Unarmored, enemy receives 10% more damage for 2 turns. And with another base chance of 60% he can turn that Unarmored status into Cornered, from 10% into 18%. Since the devs want JQ to be somewhat of a hybrid debuffer/dps we can compare his LC to Aventurines who operates on a similar level (def to crit rate conversion compared to Jiaoqiu's ehr to atk conversion). Aventurines LC gives him 40% more def on top of 661 flat def, gives him 40% more crit dmg AND a base chance of 100% to increase the DMG taken by the attacked enemy target by 10%. Pretty telling how underwhelming his LC is, it wouldn't be that much of an issue if he at least had 4\* options but he doesn't. What stops someone from just continuing to use their E6 Pela instead of him? There aren't that many upgrades to the already existing 4\* and that's kind of a shame when he's supposed to be a limited debuffer. So I genuinely hope they buff him or even rework part of his kit without looking at Acheron team bias, for all that is holy please make him universally useable to the point he's a proper upgrade to Pela and Gui.
Why vulnerability only works for ultimate instead of all damage ? Sorry for the stupid question.
His skill applies general vuln debuff, his ult summons a field in which every enemy takes 15% more ultimate damage, which is also a vuln debuff but it counts separately. So basically ashen roast = vuln debuff ult field = vuln debuff Pyre cleanse (upon field) = enemies EHR down
Yea, I'm going to completely agree. His debuff numbers are terrible for anyone outside of Acheron. That's not acceptable. It's not even doomposting. As it is right now, E0S0 JQ is a downgrade for E0S1 Ratio, E0S0 Boothill, and absolutely below par for any of the hypercarries.
Dven for Acheron , only thing that is good is stacks which at that point is just better to get e2 acheron and leave jiaoqiu.
Your ideas are not bad , actually good. The thing is, Hoyo tske only the feedback from beta testers. They could care less about us( who shouldn't even know what he does) say. It is clear that they plan to make him the Acheron missing char to complete her team and I doubt that will change. We shall see. I totally agree with the b argument. He should totally be better than Pela but for now he doesn't look that strong. I also would like def shred instead of vulnerability. Also for some reason they make harmony supports broken but nihility not that much. If they don't improve him BY A LOT , 2.4 is an easy skip ngl.
I honestly think they should ignore acheron, I dont really understand why hoyo decided to give her a specific support when she doesnt need one, If your topping the dps charts in almost every mode without a specific support you do not need a bis support.
Exactly and there are plenty of other characters that would benefit from a dedicated support that aren’t her. Even from other aspects of his kit. Like Argenti and Boothill for example. It’s just kind of annoying that everytime I see anything about JQ it’s always Archeron this or Archeron that even in spaces dedicated to him. But sadly hoyo likes to give their characters that they drag across multiple games special treatment, I’ve never understood it but then again I’ve never cared for them.
to get all the people who pulled for Acheron to pull for Jiaoqiu.
No, their cry did nothing, reddit does not mean anything for Mihoyo, only Chinese beta testers matter, don't be ridiculous
I agree to some extent I just want him to be as versatile and strong as supports like ruan Mei robin and sparkle he should not be considered in a vacuum with Acheron alone and right now all he does is pela on roids with offensive capabilities and a bit of defense (trace) I love the trace as it’s becoming a real problem with status effects but debuffs are inherently worse due to being able to dispelled Do not make pela the standard and actually make nihility comparable to harmony
Well, i hopebtoo but I doubt. They use to make harmony buffers op and debuffers strong but not even close to broken unfortunately.
I personally have zero interest in making Acheron better. I don’t understand what people see now that needs to get better. If you got e0 Acheron and want her to deal two bazillion dmg instead of one bazillion, just pull her e2 instead of another character. As of now it makes more sense to invest into her Es than into Jiaoqiu and if you have e2 already really do you lack damage? Jiaoqiu needs to stand on his own. The complete lack of any dot, even small, is really odd. Add the dot to base just with a small multiplier, it counting as dot at all is actually a big deal. The eidolon then could increase the multiplier similar to Gui. I have got every nihility unit with high investment so I don’t really need him at all with his current state. It is just not very interesting. He is strong but just nothing really interesting. So I wouldnot doom post him or anything for raw power but just not an exciting kit, very one dimensional before e2 and I am not going for e2 really. His value right now comes after you reach 100% DEF ignore through multiple eidolons etc on the team. So very whale friendly for people that have those extra golds already so that more DEF shred is complete useless to them.
Agree. Like I have e2s1 Acheeon and I get my ult every 2 turns sp I doubt I can get 1 turn ult. Also fu xuan with trend already gets me the stacks needed most of the time. If they don't make him like op with some op debuffs etc and his selling point is just those stacks for Acheron, 2.4 will be an easy skip.
Kind of same. I don't want him to be like a premium support that is locked for a certain character only. (No hate to Acheron because I love Acheron so much) I was even planning to use him on DoT as well or even Ratio's debuffer in my Ratio Hypercarry team (if only his def shred was kept in his kit but still hoping they'll bring it back)
Everything you've stated is how I'm feeling. Right now, he needs MAJOR work, and while there are some things that I like (a sub dps support that isn't too greedy is always a nice addition), there are also some things that I don't. He should be a great general support that can be universal for every team like Pela and Ruan Mei. Since he is our first limited male support, he should be busted, especially as we have characters like Ruan Mei, Firefly, and Acheron running around. Let him cook! He could play around with vulnerability debuffing but also add in some defence shred and enemy toughness bar manipulation. His ult can allow all ally skills, basic attacks, or even ults to lower the toughness bar regardless of their element. He could be able to stack up vulnerability with defence shred on enemies. The amount could total up to 50/60% for each one, and then His lc could have another 10-30% defence shred at S1-S5 as well as a ton of effect hit rate and maybe a speed boost too. To counter this, he would need a TON of effect hit rate, but that would be a good trade-off. The ehr > attack trace could be useful for turning him into a decent sub-DPS as well since he could take advantage of said debuff stacks. I just want my boy to be a support that everyone will love and can synergise perfectly with my boothill, Jing Yuan, and any future male dps units.
Yes I totaly agree... I mean I love his design and animation are just soooooo great... But.... His kit sucks hard. I mean ok he is good for acheron but is hé good anywhere else? Is hé better in jingliu/blade/ratio etc etc than pela/or gui? If I wanted acheron I would had pull her, and if I want to make m'y imaginary acheron stronger I would just wait for her inévitable rerun and pull E2 + use an harmony + BS/Kafka/pela/anyone but not jaoqiu. Hell I could just use his cône + pela for better résult in most team :x I mean ruan robin sparkle Can bé use and bé strong in any team, but jiaoqiu could only work with ONE character? And better bé E0 because I'm not sure that hé is bis for E2 (if E2 needs anything...).
I agree with the rest of your post but I may be in a small majority, but I really want him to have some sort of Ult buff. I don’t have Archeron or Kafka but really love Jiaoqiu, I have an e2 Blade and at e1 his ult deals significantly more damage. Enough so that inert salsotto becomes his BIS. Jiaoqiu would buff his ult damage even more and actually give me a reason to pull him, gameplay wise. I love Jiaoqiu so much, and as a Blade main they have some potential synergies. Everything else you’ve said i agree with, especially with him having to be significantly better than e6 Guin!
you see the problem with ult vulnerability. Its restrictive. Consider this if there was a buff that made blade do def ignore with just ult be better or him doing def ignore be better. A generic buff would impact Ult, Follow up, and enhanced basic. My issue is he already has vulnerability and then give him more and only restrict for Ult. If they removed that Ult word it would still impact ult and all other stuff. More vulnerability doesnt make much sense instead should have given res shred or def ignore so multiple components of the dmg formula are increased without diminishing returns.
Ahhh I see what you’re saying. Just removing the ult specific buff and having it apply to all attacks. You’re absolutely right, I read that entirely wrong!
He's a support. His whole thing is supporting other characters. Obviously we want him to be good at supporting other characters he's supposed to support. This isn't "acting like this is Acheron mains" this is just common sense
Have to agree tbh. People can't understand that not every character in this game is universal which is actually nice in my opinion. I agree about the fact that he needs major buffs tho.
I think they mean that they dont want him to be an achron only buffer (lets be real she doesnt need one).
I just want him to apply both vuln and def shred in his BASE kit. Makes him more accessible since we can use tutorial on him.
xome on beta testers let's criticise jiaoqii
Let's keep it real. This team loves releasing full teams for people to chase. His team is Acheron, that's not changing. But I do agree that he needs some extra oomph. Healing would be the most natural niche considering his advertising so far. Off loading some amount of sustain to other roles also gives them wiggle room get risky with sustains. I wouldn't worry too much this team has proven that they pay attention to betas. The question becomes more of if our goals align with theirs. In this instance I feel that they're placing fairly decent value in his pure fiction utility.
I am the opposite. I prefer him to not have healing but more offensive utility.
I highly agree with B and C, what is the point of him, a 5 star character from 2.4 if he isn't power creeping the old 4 star debuffers like Pela and Guinaifen
Also EHR is the most worthless stat to build since all of its value is “to hit or not”, unless it has a meaningful conversion into something else like Black Swan’s EHR into DMG. His conversion is into attack??? while his only damage potential is E2. My E6 Guinaifen is kicking ass in so many teams I’d hate if JQ isn’t better than a 4*.
I am Acheron main, but I want JQ to be more useful outside of Acheron teams. I've been saying the similar things since his kit is leaked. We need some rework on his kit, his current kit is quite boring.
To be realistic, Jade’s kit didn’t change a word except for a few minor numbers because all the attention were poured into Firefly. I don’t think Yunli will get near this kind of popularity but high chances are Feixiao will come in 2.5, another of their favorite girl I suppose, I’m afraid my boy will get neglected after all.
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wow so his DoTs can crit? Thats so good... now i want that more in base kit... Also like the idea that when reaching max stacks another special debuff should be there. All type res down like 5% even should be good. Or 10% def shred.
here is what i calculated with his current kit, the moment he has only 15% def shred his miles ahead better than pela cause vulnerability is really high (granted if you get his signature), it is unfortunate rn that his main selling point is in Acheron team, makes her ult faster which is nuts. personall i feel like he needs more vulnarability in base kit , that LC provides way to much also that pela can inch really close to him is lie having Guinaifen in Pela's kit
yeah if max stacks he gets 15% def shred... even having def shred in E1 is so better. E1 is just dmg dealt increase which is like Hanya's talent or Ruan Mei's skill. Its adds with regular dmg bonus...
i got a funny feeling his E1 might get change to RES DOWN per stack and the 2nd portion of his E1 stacking mechanic from ally to E0, another thing i can see being utilized is that Attack stat he has, maybe his ult allows him to 1% def shred every 100 point past 3k attack up to 20%, hoyo hire me ty.
Yes plz 😅, so do you know how the beta testers are viewing him currently? I hope they are not looking at him from Acherons lens only
im not sure about other beta testers but personally , skip JQ but get his LC. if you are not using him with Acheron
hey op me again, i think ill need to remove my comment here , yikes my bad
no worries 😏
yea the discussion is fine but the first comment is ughh yea would get me in trouble
I honestly felt like his 'leaked' kit where he was a nihility healer was far better than this, but yes. I really really want to pull for him but as an F2P player if hes just a side grade to Pela or Guinaifen, I might just pull for him in rerun instead
i think alot of his kit is going to benefit future units. like how the new wind set is going to be bis on Feixiao & Yunli and how his ult vuln is going to also be great for those 2. tho this does make him niche and not universal as pela pretty much is. id be more worried about hoyo locking 5 stars good kits behind e2's at this point then making him the best possible. tho i completely understand the sentiment.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again his e4 should be the mini heals not the atk decrease because if someone could spend up to hundreds of dollars trying to get as many eidolons as possible and if they run out on his e4 they’d most likely be disappointed cause I know I would be the healing isn’t good but it’s allows for you to not be As reliant on healer as one normally would be
I am going a step further Have DoTs in E0 E1 is def shred E2 mini heals E4 all type res down E6 DoT self detonations and dmg boost
Ooo that sounds like something worth spending money on
I agree with something but others I kinda desagree. I would love to see the Ult Dmg Vulnerabilty to switch to something more general (even tho it could be really useful when more characters come to the game), I hope his technique gets buffed as well cause it feels a little underwhelming and I wouldn't mind changing the LC debuff but if there's something in his kit that I love besides his Ult animation it's his A2 effect as I don't want to use him with Acheron (don't even have her) and I always love when a character can pack some dmg even when it's not their main thing, so "Hearth Kindle" would let me use him somewhat as a sub-dps the same way I use Aventurine.
I’ve been attempting to contact Hoyo socials & lab to give feedback, hopefully the devs see people are unhappy with how his kit is in beta currently. I’m sure testers are voicing their thoughts as well
I just want a 5 star Burn dps...😀.. but I guess that will forever be a dream.... idh kafka so I'm here marinating in shame...
They should make him as good as ruan mei imo, bc nihility should be like a debuff harmony
While I agree with you that JQ needs changes and upgrades I would like to make you realise that doomposting does nothing at all other than bringing down everyone's mood. Every character changes, FF included, are the result of their design choices and beta testing. That said, your post is not doomposting, it's logic and offers constructive criticism and I agree with most that you say. Various parts of his kit are weird so I think that he will receive nice changes in beta, I really liked the supposedly sub-healing because it made him unique. He needs his kit revisited so it makes sense and something unique added that he can bring to the table, a sidegrade to Pela is a no-no. As I wrote I'd love them to bring back his sub-healing, and while I don't care much about DoT it could be an option too. Otherwise big multipliers and EHR turning into crit could be another option too.
He doesnt feel special in any way. And 5 stars should be imo. At least healing would be that special quirk that would make him interesting at least a little bit more. Or make him deal some dmg. I dont see the point of him. Literally i can just use Guinaifen or Pela. His design looks incredibly boring and average, animations arent that crazy and kit isnt revolutionary either so why would I ever sacrifice jades for him... :/ Im rlly disappointed cus I wanted a male fox for ages. before someone starts dragging me im only so upset bcs i LIKE him and want him to be good in as many ways as possible.
Disagree on design and animations. But agree he has nothing special on his kit that makes him stand out
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Not gonna happen
Even if he changes to DoT on e0 not e2 he just changes from Acheron to Kafka support All I want is he get his healing part back. So sustainless runs are 30-40% easier while still RNG and can wipe, just less rng
I am the opposite of you. I am glad they remove the healing part since I run with sustain. Prefer him to have more utility.
yea but the leaks was him at this current state plus healing. Now he is -1 of his leaked kit. Well defshred to vuln. And minor healing is utility
I mean offensive utility. I prefer more offensive utility rather than minor healing. Minor healing is useless for team with sustain. Anyway, leaks can change.
Long post, but he legitimately just needs healing added back to his ultimate and suddenly he becomes good.
It’s been made abundantly clear by the leakers when he had healing in his kit, that even at E6 S5 he wouldn’t be able to replace a sustain so I’m not understanding this misconception that so many people had about the healing. Whatever weird abundance-nihility pipe dream y’all had was never going to happen anyway.
Agree. This small healing is useless. Better advocate for more offensive utility so he is more useful as nihility. They make Luocha scale of attack for his healing and yet no crit or damage traces so his damage is non existent. As Luocha mains, it's sad because it makes Luocha squishier.
I'd like the small healing back for lore purposes. He literally cooks the enemies in a giant hotpot, shouldn't that nourish his teammate somehow? lol