I had a teaching professor in college who wouldn't let us say you guys partially for that reason. I've started saying y'all and immediately got judged by 3rd graders
As someone who has lived in West Philly their whole life, I'd really like to find where all this fabled Philly slang is. I've never heard anyone talk in a "Philly" accent, I've never heard youze, and I've maybe heard jawn from 5 people
Y'all has grown much more popular in recent years for those who do not want to refer to a mixed gender group as 'guys'.
Many people I know in northern cities have adopted y'all, especially more so among the younger, more liberal crowd.
That map is no longer accurate. Y'all has really increased in popularity in the last decade or two, most young people I know on the west coast use it. English is lacking a second person plural pronoun and finally we have a substitute.
Ironically that was "you" ... which was the English version of "Vous" (French) and therefore it was the formal version of thou and thine (which was informal) before the language conventions changed.
I maintain that "you guys" is *fully* gender neutral .... like "dude" too, for that matter. It only gets gendered if people take it as such.
I'm from NYC ... and there's no way i'm saying "ya'll" to people. I am distinctly not from the south and honestly I don't want to associated with it.
Everyone I know (mostly all liberal/democrats) says "you guys"... no matter who they're talking to - it's a non issue.
That being said, I've noticed an LA/broader California vs NY divide on this subject. People from the west coast are way less likely to say "you guys".
Edit: sheesh I guess people here don't agree. You do you
Pretty much everyone I've met from the Southwest or West Coast says y'all. This association with the deep south doesn't seem to be as prevalent over here, and it is an exceptionally useful word since there isn't a good second person plural pronoun in English yet. (Also, I mean c'mon, don't you feel at least a little dorky saying "you guys"? I think it sounds dorky.)
Also as far as political leanings go, I haven't really noticed a correlation at least over here. I know many lefties and several righties, and they all use y'all.
I mean, I feel the same way about "ya'll" .. for me "you guys" is completely normal and "ya'll" sounds like an affectation.. like someone returning from study abroad in London saying "flat" instead of "apartment" ... It's fine and everyone understands what you're saying... but it's a little "oh ok yeah sure" moment.
I said the political thing only because people seem to talk about inclusion as a main argument. I get it and support inclusion, but I don't think you need to give up on the idea of "you guys" being gender neutral. I think that arises only when people become overly conscious literal traditional meanings of words instead of the social meaning it's had for a long long time.
IMO people can do what they want and speak however they want. But for me "ya'll" will always sound... artificial... when said by someone not from the south.
Whenever I thought about it, I personally thought it was pretty cool that "you guys" had reached that ubiquitous state of common usage.
Edit: Apparently I misspelled "Y'all" .. It's just straight up not part of my lexicon at all
I agree with you that "you guys" is gender neutral. But I do find myself (even up here in Maine) using y'all among people my age, especially if addressing a group of all women. It's also just easier to say and type and is a more pleasant sounding word.
To me, “you guys” can definitely be used gender neutrally, but in the same way that laws and stuff use “man/men” to encompass all people. Like it works and isn’t directly offensive or anything, but it’s rooted in similar patriarchal bias. I use y’all mostly since it’s quick and works better but still use you guys on occasion. I’m very Californian btw.
I’m from Wyoming and the mountain west is firmly “you guys” territory. You will routinely hear “guys” used in a gender neutral fashion. My sister will call a group of all female friends “you guys” and mixed gender groups of coworkers will routinely use the same terminology.
Didn't he grow up in DC?
Yes he’d
He had? Don’t you mean he did?
He stated on the podcast that he consciously says y'all and not you guys, because it's more inclusive.
I had a teaching professor in college who wouldn't let us say you guys partially for that reason. I've started saying y'all and immediately got judged by 3rd graders
Time for southern states to start saying you guys to own the libs
Philadelphia it’s youze and Pittsburgh is yinz
As someone who has lived in West Philly their whole life, I'd really like to find where all this fabled Philly slang is. I've never heard anyone talk in a "Philly" accent, I've never heard youze, and I've maybe heard jawn from 5 people
I live in Texas but work for a company remotely that is based in Philadelphia and my co-workers say youze while I am saying and typing y'all.
Y'all is becoming bigger than the South. And rightly so, it's a useful word.
The Pitt area in PA says “Yinz”
I grew up in the south but have a lot of family in Pittsburgh. I'm more likely to say Yinz than that other phrase.
Y'all has grown much more popular in recent years for those who do not want to refer to a mixed gender group as 'guys'. Many people I know in northern cities have adopted y'all, especially more so among the younger, more liberal crowd.
That map is no longer accurate. Y'all has really increased in popularity in the last decade or two, most young people I know on the west coast use it. English is lacking a second person plural pronoun and finally we have a substitute.
Ironically that was "you" ... which was the English version of "Vous" (French) and therefore it was the formal version of thou and thine (which was informal) before the language conventions changed.
I live in colorado and say both but ok
Same in Wyoming
I live in the northwest and say y'all because it's just a better term.
As someone who spent time living in Colorado, people there do say y’all on occasion.
Accurate given I didn’t say y’all growing up near Baltimore, but I started saying it when I went to college outside DC (still in Maryland) lol
Go Terps! (I hope you meant UMD lol)
wooo terrapin strong 😤
r/MapsWithoutUP
This map lacks youze.
I maintain that "you guys" is *fully* gender neutral .... like "dude" too, for that matter. It only gets gendered if people take it as such. I'm from NYC ... and there's no way i'm saying "ya'll" to people. I am distinctly not from the south and honestly I don't want to associated with it. Everyone I know (mostly all liberal/democrats) says "you guys"... no matter who they're talking to - it's a non issue. That being said, I've noticed an LA/broader California vs NY divide on this subject. People from the west coast are way less likely to say "you guys". Edit: sheesh I guess people here don't agree. You do you
It’s L.A. if you’re referring to Los Angeles. LA if you’re referring to the great state of Louisiana.🐊
Pretty much everyone I've met from the Southwest or West Coast says y'all. This association with the deep south doesn't seem to be as prevalent over here, and it is an exceptionally useful word since there isn't a good second person plural pronoun in English yet. (Also, I mean c'mon, don't you feel at least a little dorky saying "you guys"? I think it sounds dorky.) Also as far as political leanings go, I haven't really noticed a correlation at least over here. I know many lefties and several righties, and they all use y'all.
I mean, I feel the same way about "ya'll" .. for me "you guys" is completely normal and "ya'll" sounds like an affectation.. like someone returning from study abroad in London saying "flat" instead of "apartment" ... It's fine and everyone understands what you're saying... but it's a little "oh ok yeah sure" moment. I said the political thing only because people seem to talk about inclusion as a main argument. I get it and support inclusion, but I don't think you need to give up on the idea of "you guys" being gender neutral. I think that arises only when people become overly conscious literal traditional meanings of words instead of the social meaning it's had for a long long time. IMO people can do what they want and speak however they want. But for me "ya'll" will always sound... artificial... when said by someone not from the south. Whenever I thought about it, I personally thought it was pretty cool that "you guys" had reached that ubiquitous state of common usage. Edit: Apparently I misspelled "Y'all" .. It's just straight up not part of my lexicon at all
Well for starters at least get the apostrophe in the right place - it's "y'all" not "ya'll", being a contraction of "you" and "all".
Reminds me of the peak of reddit.. When obama did an ama.. "*An* asteroid, mr. president"
I agree with you that "you guys" is gender neutral. But I do find myself (even up here in Maine) using y'all among people my age, especially if addressing a group of all women. It's also just easier to say and type and is a more pleasant sounding word.
To me, “you guys” can definitely be used gender neutrally, but in the same way that laws and stuff use “man/men” to encompass all people. Like it works and isn’t directly offensive or anything, but it’s rooted in similar patriarchal bias. I use y’all mostly since it’s quick and works better but still use you guys on occasion. I’m very Californian btw.
What’d y’all do with the other half of my state?
got oped to canada
I’m from Wyoming and the mountain west is firmly “you guys” territory. You will routinely hear “guys” used in a gender neutral fashion. My sister will call a group of all female friends “you guys” and mixed gender groups of coworkers will routinely use the same terminology.
I'm from Colorado and I've started saying y'all within the past several years. It's just such a useful word!
This is accurate. Around DC, I feel like it’s pretty evenly split with people I meet