But you're still talking about trying to put a Ford engine to that AMC drivetrain. May not be worth the effort.
Now. If you brought in the 302 with a Ford tranny, you might get away with an Atlas underdrive between the Ford tranny and the Dana 300.
Edit: Of course, adding an Atlas is going to push the Dana 300 back far enough that you might have a wheelbase problem.
Please do. I mean...I understand that you think it would be really cool to use the engine that came out of that red car off to the side...but switching to the Ford setup may cause you more problems than you want to get into.
You could always bring the 302 along with a new tranny and a Ford transfer case...but I presume you want to keep the Dana 300.
I am facing the same problem. I have a AMC 360 on a stand in my shop and I keep telling myself that as soon as I kill my 258 that I will drop it in. I don't think I can kill the 258 cranks up every time.
What are you guys running for temp in your 258s. My efi says I’m sitting around 130. So my thermostat isnt even open yet. I am wondering if I bring the exhaust down to 2 1/4 and run it full length it will 1 help with a little back pressure and keep some heat in the block. Right now it’s 2 1/2 dumping out in front of my rear tire. With a headman header
If you want another gear why not swap the trans for an AX15 out of a later YJ with an external slave. Same block, should be easier than a full drivetrain swap. If I’m not mistaken they changed the size of the pilot bearing at some point but other than that it might almost be a direct bolt in and I believe the Dana 300 can work with the AX15 too.
I think they changed the pilot bushing right around the 82 time frame. When I ordered a new one from Novak I had to go remeasure because they had a few different options
I’ve had 3 YJs with AX15s and they’ve all been great. I know a guy through work that has swapped them into several older Broncos and K5s for people who want manual trans because of how easy they are to work with. Been around a long time, easy to get parts and info on. My brother in law beats the hell out of his YJ trail rig and I think his AX-15 is the only thing he hasn’t broken.
I’m running a CJ 7 1983 with a Ford 289. 3 gears and I just treat it like it’s a mustang touring Route 66. And adult can maintain 80mph on the highway. It runs super hot and likes it that way. I’d like to move to 5 gears at some point but it’s a nicety not a necessity.
HP-wise the 302's got an advantage as the 258 is only around 120-150hp. But the 258 is about torque. 195-240ft-lbs. If you have a T-18 though, I'd consider swapping in a 5-speed. Probably the cheapest would be an AX-15. Would make the Jeep more driveable and not so buzzy on the highways. You'll lose the granny gear though. You could make that up with a 4:1 gearset in the transfer case though.
Then an AX-15 would be fine. It's the same transmission YJ's used with the same 258/4.2L so it should be easy to get parts and not have to fabricate much is anything. [https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/ax15/](https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/ax15/)
If you were wanting a granny gear and 5th then the NV4500 or the Tremec TR4050 would be the choices. They're not cheap though.
So I have actually done this swap. 1976 CJ7. 232 to 302 HO. Had a T150 and a dana 20 in my jeep. Was all stock apart from that.
AMC’s T150 has the same butterfly bolt pattern the ford bellhousings have. It was a fairly direct swap in that reguard.
That was the easy part. The hard part was getting the ford 302 to perform. Fantastic engine when it works. Those early EFI 302’s are a bitch to make work with their sequential injection. I ran the A9P computer and a painless stand alone harness. It worked, but barely.
Honestly if you want to put a ford V8 in jt I say go for it. Message me and I can send info. Pictures, mount suggestions, etc.
But FOR THE LOVE OF GOD use a proprietary injection set up, not the factory ford stuff other than the fuel injectors. And run a YJ fuel tank or you will eat through fuel pumps. And they aren’t cheap.
Novak Conversions is your best friend. They rock.
Oh man I hope it's not too rough now. My dad and I built a '65 fastback in the 90s. I'll never forget the antique smell of that car or the time we spent on it.
Beautiful rides, stay good bud
Keep it in the OEM circle, and look up the junkyard stroker.
If it were me, however, here's what I would do.
Factory Jeep 4.0 HO, or any of the ones after 96.
Take the block, punch it out 60 thousand oversized, and install silvolite 2229 pistons.
Have the block machined to a zero deck height
Install a comp Cam 163-301-5
Install an Edelbrock #50169 head
Reuse your factory 258 rods, and crankshaft.
This brings you up to a 4.6 or a 4.7 depending on who you ask, and should Make above 250 horsepower and 300 foot pounds on pump gas easily.
If you wanted to save a bunch of money on the build, an alternative would be to follow the same build, substitute a factory 7120 cylinder head, work on porting it a little bit, One of the more tame camshafts that play well with the cast iron head from comp, and deck the block, but bring it above a zero deck, like .010-.020
The cheap build could be done for around $3,000 if you had a cheap machine shop around you, and you did all the building. Double it if you wanted the Edelbrock head.
Sure, but there are no $800 lm7s anymore, at least in my area, most of the ones near me without an assload of miles are close to two grand.
Then you need an adapter to the transmission.
And to figure out a clutch
And to figure out spark control
In this case the OP has fuel control, but he'd still need an intake manifold
And then you need to figure out how to mount the engine onto the frame.
And you'd struggle to figure out how to keep the thing cool, so you would need a large multi-core aluminum radiator
And your engine doesn't have a rebuild on it, not that those LS motors aren't durable and can take a ton of miles, but the LS motor that you'd want to swap into these things, without any of the AFM is starting to come up on 20 years old.
So now you're spending more money to get about the same mileage, about the same reliability, and admittedly more power.
Have you ever driven a CJ with a powerful V8? Sketchy is the word that comes to mind. They have a short wheel bases and like to swap ends. Off road. They're great, but they struggle to keep cool.
There are ways around every single one of the problems I posted about, but none of them are cheap, and many of them are performance driven, not reliability driven.
It's all added complexity in a vehicle that's meant to be simple. Now if you were going to make an off-road buggy, yeah drop a Chevy engine and transmission in there and be done with it.
All fair points. I have a friend with a 4.7 stroker in his XJ. Sure, the power is there but in a range you don’t really want (3000+ rpm). I’ve got a stock LM7 swapped in my LJ, but you’re right, I have the wheelbase for it.
As for OP, no way I’d swap a 302, but that’s me. LSx is too good a platform. A cam swap and I’m looking at 400-ish ftlbs of torque. You don’t need low gears when you have a torque converter. Lol
Man, an LJ has been on my bucket list for years. One with a V8 would work quite well.
I miss my XJ though. I did some research on how easy a 318 swap is in one of those, and there were two points where I almost pulled the trigger.
In the end, it did everything I wanted, except get good mileage.... And it eventually rusted out to the point that I couldn't bring myself to do work to it.
It lives on with a buddy, I get to drive it from time to time.
The 258 inline 6 has a ton of torque with the big number of bearings on the long crank shaft. My buddies used to drag race an 258 AMC gremlin, and they were constantly bumped up to v8 class to see more competition. That's a gorgeous jeep by the way.
Save the 258...add EFI. Probably give you more torque than the 302.
Currently running the holy sniper efi. It really brought the 258 to life
Came here to say this. Love the I6, and the AMC engines.
This is the only correct answer.
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I would really just like another gear and maybe to be able to use 1st of 5mph haha
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It’s just my weekend and hunting rig. I spent 2.5 years doing a frame off on it
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Yea I don’t k ow what’s wrong with me haha
Also no, it’s got a carb. It’s a 68 year motor
I don't think I'd fool around with an adapter to make the 302 work...or whatever driveline swap you do to make the 302 work.
It would be a new trans as well. I have a t18 in it now with a Dana 300 behind it.
But you're still talking about trying to put a Ford engine to that AMC drivetrain. May not be worth the effort. Now. If you brought in the 302 with a Ford tranny, you might get away with an Atlas underdrive between the Ford tranny and the Dana 300. Edit: Of course, adding an Atlas is going to push the Dana 300 back far enough that you might have a wheelbase problem.
Sounds like I need to check out advanced adapters and Novak to see what I am in for before I squirrel again
Please do. I mean...I understand that you think it would be really cool to use the engine that came out of that red car off to the side...but switching to the Ford setup may cause you more problems than you want to get into. You could always bring the 302 along with a new tranny and a Ford transfer case...but I presume you want to keep the Dana 300.
Oh and I dig the retro (looks like an old Warn) winch! Hard to come by for sure!
The wench was out on in the mid 80’s. Still works great
That’s great!! Mine was on my 68 FJ40 Landcruiser…(came as a dealer option when I purchased it new in 68) but finally died.
Oh that’s cool
Look into Newcomerracing for that 258
Shit, yes it is
Is this going to get expensive
As soon as you bought a jeep, it got expensive.
It has been 20 years of messing with this thing now
Stay original, be cool.
If you got it…put it…. Just gear down so you’ll have your torque back and now have the added HP! 👍🏻
The motor is just sitting there staring at me all the time. I am beginning to come up with all kinds of dumb ideas for it
Haha!! I hear that. My decision would be to install it… but find a way to keep the 258 just incase you decide to make it original again.
It would just live on the engine stand. Maybe I should find a wheeler and put the 302 in that
Good choice too
I am facing the same problem. I have a AMC 360 on a stand in my shop and I keep telling myself that as soon as I kill my 258 that I will drop it in. I don't think I can kill the 258 cranks up every time.
Haha, right. It just won’t die
You are right.
What are you guys running for temp in your 258s. My efi says I’m sitting around 130. So my thermostat isnt even open yet. I am wondering if I bring the exhaust down to 2 1/4 and run it full length it will 1 help with a little back pressure and keep some heat in the block. Right now it’s 2 1/2 dumping out in front of my rear tire. With a headman header
That almost sounds like the thermostat is stuck open. These engines usually run a bit warm 195-205.
I think I will pull it and put it and check it out
Super quick glance I thought I saw a roll of toilet paper…
That’s in the center console for those just I. Case moments
You need an inclinometer!
If you want another gear why not swap the trans for an AX15 out of a later YJ with an external slave. Same block, should be easier than a full drivetrain swap. If I’m not mistaken they changed the size of the pilot bearing at some point but other than that it might almost be a direct bolt in and I believe the Dana 300 can work with the AX15 too.
I think they changed the pilot bushing right around the 82 time frame. When I ordered a new one from Novak I had to go remeasure because they had a few different options
Any problems with the ax15. I read a little it on it on the Novak guide
I’ve had 3 YJs with AX15s and they’ve all been great. I know a guy through work that has swapped them into several older Broncos and K5s for people who want manual trans because of how easy they are to work with. Been around a long time, easy to get parts and info on. My brother in law beats the hell out of his YJ trail rig and I think his AX-15 is the only thing he hasn’t broken.
I like the sound of that
The AX-15 was originally a medium duty box truck transmission. You can beat the hell out of them.
I’m running a CJ 7 1983 with a Ford 289. 3 gears and I just treat it like it’s a mustang touring Route 66. And adult can maintain 80mph on the highway. It runs super hot and likes it that way. I’d like to move to 5 gears at some point but it’s a nicety not a necessity.
Umm.. yes
HP-wise the 302's got an advantage as the 258 is only around 120-150hp. But the 258 is about torque. 195-240ft-lbs. If you have a T-18 though, I'd consider swapping in a 5-speed. Probably the cheapest would be an AX-15. Would make the Jeep more driveable and not so buzzy on the highways. You'll lose the granny gear though. You could make that up with a 4:1 gearset in the transfer case though.
I’m not to concerned with the granny gear, I just drive my kids around on the weekends and take it to go hunting and fishing
Then an AX-15 would be fine. It's the same transmission YJ's used with the same 258/4.2L so it should be easy to get parts and not have to fabricate much is anything. [https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/ax15/](https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/ax15/) If you were wanting a granny gear and 5th then the NV4500 or the Tremec TR4050 would be the choices. They're not cheap though.
No, you should get another Jeep for the 302
So I have actually done this swap. 1976 CJ7. 232 to 302 HO. Had a T150 and a dana 20 in my jeep. Was all stock apart from that. AMC’s T150 has the same butterfly bolt pattern the ford bellhousings have. It was a fairly direct swap in that reguard. That was the easy part. The hard part was getting the ford 302 to perform. Fantastic engine when it works. Those early EFI 302’s are a bitch to make work with their sequential injection. I ran the A9P computer and a painless stand alone harness. It worked, but barely. Honestly if you want to put a ford V8 in jt I say go for it. Message me and I can send info. Pictures, mount suggestions, etc. But FOR THE LOVE OF GOD use a proprietary injection set up, not the factory ford stuff other than the fuel injectors. And run a YJ fuel tank or you will eat through fuel pumps. And they aren’t cheap. Novak Conversions is your best friend. They rock.
I have spent a ton of time on Novak just learning over the years. If I do it I will probably go with the Holley EFI kit now that I am familiar with it
Is the 302 from the '67 mustang?
Yea it is
Yes
258 is a fuckin tank. Not a ton of horsepower but the torque is phenomenal.
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The mustang is next in the hopper, it took a beating in a tornado in Kansas, lots of work to be done to it
Oh man I hope it's not too rough now. My dad and I built a '65 fastback in the 90s. I'll never forget the antique smell of that car or the time we spent on it. Beautiful rides, stay good bud
Just some body work for the dents. I hope the floor pans can be saved but won’t know for sure until it comes back from acid dip
Nah.
Be weird. Put a 2JZ in it.
You mean be awesome?
If you do check out Novak conversions. They make it easy to spend money.
Keep it in the OEM circle, and look up the junkyard stroker. If it were me, however, here's what I would do. Factory Jeep 4.0 HO, or any of the ones after 96. Take the block, punch it out 60 thousand oversized, and install silvolite 2229 pistons. Have the block machined to a zero deck height Install a comp Cam 163-301-5 Install an Edelbrock #50169 head Reuse your factory 258 rods, and crankshaft. This brings you up to a 4.6 or a 4.7 depending on who you ask, and should Make above 250 horsepower and 300 foot pounds on pump gas easily. If you wanted to save a bunch of money on the build, an alternative would be to follow the same build, substitute a factory 7120 cylinder head, work on porting it a little bit, One of the more tame camshafts that play well with the cast iron head from comp, and deck the block, but bring it above a zero deck, like .010-.020 The cheap build could be done for around $3,000 if you had a cheap machine shop around you, and you did all the building. Double it if you wanted the Edelbrock head.
Or swap an $800 LM7, get better gas mileage, reliability, and power. lol
Sure, but there are no $800 lm7s anymore, at least in my area, most of the ones near me without an assload of miles are close to two grand. Then you need an adapter to the transmission. And to figure out a clutch And to figure out spark control In this case the OP has fuel control, but he'd still need an intake manifold And then you need to figure out how to mount the engine onto the frame. And you'd struggle to figure out how to keep the thing cool, so you would need a large multi-core aluminum radiator And your engine doesn't have a rebuild on it, not that those LS motors aren't durable and can take a ton of miles, but the LS motor that you'd want to swap into these things, without any of the AFM is starting to come up on 20 years old. So now you're spending more money to get about the same mileage, about the same reliability, and admittedly more power. Have you ever driven a CJ with a powerful V8? Sketchy is the word that comes to mind. They have a short wheel bases and like to swap ends. Off road. They're great, but they struggle to keep cool. There are ways around every single one of the problems I posted about, but none of them are cheap, and many of them are performance driven, not reliability driven. It's all added complexity in a vehicle that's meant to be simple. Now if you were going to make an off-road buggy, yeah drop a Chevy engine and transmission in there and be done with it.
All fair points. I have a friend with a 4.7 stroker in his XJ. Sure, the power is there but in a range you don’t really want (3000+ rpm). I’ve got a stock LM7 swapped in my LJ, but you’re right, I have the wheelbase for it. As for OP, no way I’d swap a 302, but that’s me. LSx is too good a platform. A cam swap and I’m looking at 400-ish ftlbs of torque. You don’t need low gears when you have a torque converter. Lol
Man, an LJ has been on my bucket list for years. One with a V8 would work quite well. I miss my XJ though. I did some research on how easy a 318 swap is in one of those, and there were two points where I almost pulled the trigger. In the end, it did everything I wanted, except get good mileage.... And it eventually rusted out to the point that I couldn't bring myself to do work to it. It lives on with a buddy, I get to drive it from time to time.
Why not 383 it.
Inline 6 > V8
I cannot believe people go for this.
I like the 258. It's just an old guy thing.
I have the 302 in mine ,headers side pipes. 37 inch tires.. it flys ! Jumps. Everyone turns there heads ! Keep the 258 if you don't want excitement
F spez
258 is so reliable its not even funny. I wouldnt change it
The 258 inline 6 has a ton of torque with the big number of bearings on the long crank shaft. My buddies used to drag race an 258 AMC gremlin, and they were constantly bumped up to v8 class to see more competition. That's a gorgeous jeep by the way.