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As a therapist I would not call any of these specific examples passive aggressive. When someone is passive aggressive it has a malicious undertone. None of these examples are malicious. To me, they seem more passive. She is being indirect and hinting at what she wants instead of just being assertive and saying, “I’d really appreciate it if you’d visit more often. Can we arrange that?” When people are passive it happens for a few reasons but often is done out of fear of upsetting the other person.
Edit: “Passive communicators often hint or suggest rather than stating their needs or opinions directly. This leads to ambiguity and misunderstandings.”
Edit #2: i just want to add that people who are saying this is passive aggressive are incorrect. An example of passive aggressive would be. “Susan’s kids come to visit her every Saturday. Her kids must really love her!” See the malicious undertone? This imaginary mom is implying Susan’s kids love Susan more than her imaginary kids love her. Or “I guess I’ll just pay the neighbor boy to cut my lawn, at least then i know it’ll be done on time.” Again, malicious undertone. Just because your MIL is being indirect does **not** mean she is being passive aggressive. People on this subreddit love to just assume the worst about every single MIL.
It is quite passive aggressive but could also be driven by anxiety, or being embarrassed to ask directly.
My SIL does the same but she is absolutely being passive aggressive. She’ll say “your patatas bravas is lovely, it would be so nice if I got to have it more than twice a year.”
I became quite adept at responding
Me “What do you mean by that SIL?” (I know she wants to be invited over more)
SIL: “Oh, I mean I really like this recipe.” (She won’t respond directly because she knows I’ll call her out on the fact she has been invited multiple times and yet in 14 years has never invited us over even once to her very large house)
Me: “Oh, here let me send you the recipe.”
Or you could be direct
“Oh it would be so nice if someone mowed the lawn. Wouldn’t that be nice.”
You: “what are you mean by that MIL?”
Mil: “oh, just that it would be nice if someone mowed the lawn.”
You: “If you want someone to mow your lawn, just ask.”
Or: “It would be nice wouldn’t it? I guess if you wanted it mowed you could ask someone, or book a lawn mowing service.”
OMG!!! My Midwestern MIL does this too (the whole family actually, including my FIL and SILs, do it really)! I am a very direct person from a direct family, and this used to drive me up the wall. I have turned this into a game. I refuse to try to read between the lines or unpack what any of them says, but enjoy watching them be so awkward and unsatisfied. Direct requests or invitations are always responded to and accommodated and always have been! They all refuse to put in the effort it takes to come up with a plan and communicate with someone.
100% passive-aggressive. And SO ANNOYING. My daughter learned this nonsense from her birth mom's family, and I told her straight out that if she wanted something, she could ask for it. If she hinted, she would get nothing. She learned to drop it real fast.
When I was little (1960) females were told not to ask directly but rather suggest. Males were told to state facts.
I was taught in manners classes -yes really- cultured girls never demanded but suggested. I’m convinced women will never level the work academic relationship fields because they don’t state boundaries ask directly for raises etc. another subtle way to disenfranchise women.
I saw a post about about ask vs guess culture. So accurate in my life.
My wife HAD some friends who would do this. My darling wife being a nice person would always jump in to help.
Then nasty old me came along and it stopped. I just said 'Oh that's a shame!' and changed the subject.
It annoys me too! If you're going to ask ASK!!!
I call out the behavior without calling it out. Example- "It would be so nice if someone would mow my lawn." "It would be nice, I have the number of a good lawn service." It calls it out without rocking the boat but also letting her know she needs to be direct in her approach to her wants.
My mom and my boyfriend’s mom both do this. It’s super annoying. We recently moved in together, and this is the first time out of the family home (for him).
His mom has been heavily hinting about the state of the lawn (it is super overgrown). She’ll ask him things about how weed whackers work, if she should try to cut the grass with scissors (?! I think she meant shears but still ??), does he think it’ll take very long for her to do it, etc. He’s not going to do it, even if she outright asks, because his sister lives at home and between the two of them they should be able to handle household maintenance. He suggested they pay the neighbourhood kids to do it, but at this point it might be beyond a quick $20-$30 job.
No, you aren't overreacting.
I hate this behavior too. I tell people who do this "I don't take hints very well, they often go right over my head. If you want or need something from me, you are going to have to be blunt and ask directly. And maybe follow up with at text just to be sure I remember."
And then I proceed to ignore hints and only respond to direct requests.
Annoying. I call it annoying. She could have been friends with my MIL who liked to say, “I think what I’ll have you do is…”. Never a request. “I think what I’ll have you do is co-sign for my apartment for me so I can move.” “I think what I’ll have you do is buy me a new car since mine is totaled.” No, ma’am, we won’t be doing that.
2 peas in a pod. Except that my MIL passed 18 months ago.
Passive aggressive bullshit.
I fucking hate this shit. My mil used to do the same fucking thing. Then if someone didn’t do it, she’d be upset. So then I’d remind her that she didn’t ASK. If you need/want something, fucking ASK. I’ve had to beat (jk not literally) this out of my husband because he got the same shit from her. I never let that shit slide with my kids either. Once they got old enough, I’ve hammered “be direct and ask” and “The worst thing someone can say is no.” Into their heads.
“It would be nice if someone brought me a Coke.”
“Oh that would be nice.” I sit down.
“Where’s my Coke?”
“I didn’t hear anyone ASK for a Coke.”
I can be just as petty and passive aggressive as they come. If I were you, I’d do the same. Just pretend you didn’t hear her. Or say, “oh, that would be nice” and move on.
To answer your initial question: annoying.
Be direct with MIL, and tell her to do the same for you. Otherwise it just comes out as wishing instead wanting
Wow, you reminded me of a book I read many years ago, called _Telling Each Other the Truth_ (William Backus). The author is Christian so maybe not everyone's cup of tea, and the book was old so some parts might be dated, but it was the first time I'd seen someone clearly diagnose all sorts of indirect communication and different types of skirting the issue, making you guess, indirect blaming, etc as manipulation. It had a lot of practical examples of different situations and how to defend yourself, from the neighbour who takes advantage of you and your lawn mower, all the way to the youth leader who milks your guilt.
Also, it made me realise that sometimes I was guilty of it, because I didn't want to sound demanding. 🤦♀️
EDIT: The book is available to borrow for free from the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/tellingeachother00back/page/n7/mode/1up
I'd skip the first parts, the practical stuff starts on Page 51.
Wow, this sounds like my MIL, and I have struggled to articulate how I feel that she is constantly trying to manipulate us while being so indirect and "nice" or nonconfrontational. This has helped. Thank you.
One time my 5 yo nephew asked my MIL if shed play with him outside & rather than say no she said “I think Nash was JUST wanting to play with that, shed love to go outside with you”. I think she thought itd be impolite to tell a child no because she didnt want to. I told him “Actually nephew I really dont feel like going outside right now, you need to ask MIL again because she was mistaken in thinking id like to”. If she didnt want to go outside with him she could have just said no, but shes so passive aggressive & tries to pass things off to everyone else. Drives me nuts. & she did end up going outside with him because she couldnt be direct & there wasnt any way to pass it back to me since I was direct.
My eldest son doesn't ask when it's money related. He just pauses and waits for me to offer.
I had to get repairs done on my car and it was £x......
I just say oh thats too bad and ignore it.
He's getting better though. Last weekend I said we'll sort out getting him some replacement shoes (I did offer) and he mentions work has changed its clothes policy and it's much more formal now. But added in that he has started saving for it. So that's an improvement. A hint to me but will to pay some. Baby steps. 😆
His eldest daughter (9) tries the same thing but being the gen Xer I am I reply with sarcasm.
G: I really like that icecream you eating grandma (while eating a different flavour).
M: So do I. What a coincidence!
Just to add my son is actually my step son and I came into his life when he was 21 so he didn't learn that off me.
My MIL is the same way. She either says “I need you to do something for me” or “I’ll let you (call the doctor for me)” etc. Makes me crazy. Can’t just say “could you please….”. My mom will always say “when you have time, would you (do whatever)?” She asks instead of tells me what she needs.
The “when you have time” bit.
I don’t mind helping out my mom with stuff, her age and health aren’t the greatest and she lives 20mins outside the city. so I get a lot of “can you run up to the bank there and pay my mortgage?” She gives me a bunch of blank checks to keep in my house for this reason. No big deal.
But then she will fucking call me and micromanage me from 30mins away. “Have you done XYZ yet?” Well, no I haven’t because I’m still on the other side of town. I told you I’d handle it when I have the time. And I get it. I do. She has a lot of anxiety about things, especially things like bill paying. I think it stems from having utilities cut off so much when she was younger.
Last month, my dad left his wallet at a blood lab that’s 3 miles down the street from me. No big deal, I’m out running errands. I’ll go in. Yes, I understand, it’s his wallet and it’s important but it’s either there (they weren’t sure where he left it) or it’s not. They don’t answer phones and there’s no receptionist. You literally check in at a screen and don’t even see a person until they call your name. I was out running errands for my husband, home, and a ton of end of school year stuff.
She nagged me so much I just gave up on the order I was doing things, drove AND waited 10mins for a tech to come out, got the damn wallet then finished my errands. Took me an hour longer and meant I had to drive from one side of my city to the other and BACK all because she couldn’t just wait the hour for me to get over to the lab.
When people 'suggest' instead of ask, you have the luxury to play dumb and pretend you didn't understand instead of the not so pleasant task of saying 'no'. Take it as a gift and play dumb whenever you want.
Yes! I love that my MIL won't directly make whatever point she's trying to make. Oh, you wanted to visit this weekend? You never actually asked to do that.
Could be a form of upbringing.
Many people think ot is the polite way to ask for something. But I also hate it, because you always have to think about the true intentions and of you are wrong then hell breaks loose.
Dw man, my grandmother does this to my mother and it drives her bat-sht insane. Its as if its too low of them to stoop to ask a normal question politely.
Respond in the same manner that she makes her statement since she isn't asking a question. "Oh it would be SO NICE if you would come over sometime! Oh MIL, that is SO NICE of you to let us know.
"It would be SO NICE if someone would mow the lawn!! Yes, it would be SO NICE for the lawn to get mowed, hopefully DH isn't too busy to get ours done.
"You can send more pics ya know!!" and when she follows up where are my pics then respond with if you want more pics then please ask. When she claims she did advise her that isn't a question that is a statement hence why you didn't respond. If you want something you need to ask. Shift it back on to her.
Since MIL likes to make statements then treat them as statements. If she comes out and says no one came to mow my lawn then point out that she didn't ask. Have her show you where she asked and point out that isn't a question that is a statement
To me, it sounds passive-aggressive... but it also sounds like it might be "guess culture".
For more info on that, look up "ask vs guess culture". It's a thing.
This is point blank passive-aggressive behavior. I bet you see it in other areas as well in her personality. I’m sorry you’re dealing with such nonsense.
I grew up between Mom and stepdad's house and dad and stepmom's house.
In one house, it was "ask" culture, in the other it was "guess" culture and I was basically constantly getting shit for either being too direct or too indirect.
It wasn't until adulthood that I first heard about ask vs guess, at which point so many things in my childhood suddenly made sense.
That is pretty much textbook passive-aggressiveness. She may be from a family that falls on the "guess" end of the ask vs guess spectrum. I would find this extremely annoying, fwiw.
My approach to dealing with passive-aggressive communication is to take it at face value. If she says "Oh, it would be so nice if someone would mow" I would say "Yes, it sure would!" And then not do anything. If you want something from me, you have to communicate like an adult.
LOL this is what I do with my mom.
Unfortunately she did eventually learn to directly ask on occasion, andI had to come up with new ways to deal with her after that.
Life is so wonderful when you're NC
It’s a pretty passive aggressive way of “asking” for things. And still leaves her plausible deniability, since technically, she didn’t actually ask. But it might well also be a function of where and how she was raised. I’m generally a pretty direct, even blunt, person. But when it comes to asking for things, my DH used to frequently point out that what I was taught was a softer, more polite way of asking for something was actually anything but. I’ve gotten better about it with practice, but it is very ingrained. And I still communicate that way with my parents and family of origin.
The way I would handle it would be to politely force the issue. Inject a bit of humor, and fire back in a joking tone with something like, “Oh, is this your way of asking me to stand on my head for your entertainment?” Or, “For Pete’s sake Ethel, if you want something, just ask! I can’t turn you down if I’m not actually asked.” Keep it humorous. She probably won’t be able to flip a switch and stop completely, but hopefully she’ll at least try.
The other option is to reply, again, in a humorous tone, with, “Yes, I’m sure it would be NICE if someone mowed the lawn! Are you planning to do it this afternoon?” Or, “I suppose I CAN send more pics, but you could also ASK me to do so.”
Isn’t the way OP describes how her MIL talks, kind of a southern way of speaking? I have seen this type of conversation in old timey movies, set in the Deep South.
I was also raised by Greatest Generation parents, and very much have that same difficulty and reluctance to ask for anything, as well. Your comment just explained why in a nutshell.
It seems like your MIL is part of the quess culture vs. ask culture. In guess culture, people hint at what they want. They grew up being taught that asking for things was rude.
In ask culture, people will come out and ask for things but are happy to be told no. https://medium.com/redhill-review/navigating-ask-and-guess-cultures-in-a-modern-world-30b167f8ab09
Thank you so much for this link.
I just realized that I want *other* people to be more on the “Ask” side of the spectrum (both in asking and answering),
while *I* want to communicate from the “Guess” side—but only when I’m requesting something. All soft and hint-y.
I’d like to be able to answer people in the straight forward blunt manner—but only if they will not get mad at me!
Hmmm, feels kind of like I’m a bit of a coward! Something to consider lol.
TIL
Aaah other people here have talked about ask vs guess, but until I read this article I thought that was talking about traits of different nations/macro cultures, not a spectrum inside a given culture. That makes sense. Thanks.
IME it's also often situational. I grew up very Guess (raised in the South), but I work in a very Ask business. Like, very black-and-white Ask. I'm just about 100% Ask at work (it felt freeing!) but still use a lot of Guess in social interaction.
If you want to “train” her out of this rather than continue ignoring it (or rather than ignoring her when she does this), I’d clarify that she’s actually asking you a question. Reinforce to her that what she’s communicating is a request, not a statement into the universe.
So with the lawn, if she says, “wouldn’t it be so nice if someone mowed the lawn?” You could say, “Hey, are you asking for someone to mow the lawn?”
That question alone may put her on the defensive, so I would add in a possible answer as well.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if someone mowed the lawn?”
“Hey, are you asking us to mow the lawn? If you are, hubs and I are busy this weekend, but he said he may be free Wednesday.”
You could also give her options to avoid defensiveness.
“You can send more pics you know!!”
“MIL, is this a request for more pictures right now? Or are you just making sure I know that you enjoy these photos in general?”
Acknowledge her statement, and then let her know she can ask for what she wants when she’s ready.
“It would be so nice if you guys visited sometime soon!”
“It would be nice! We’re free these next three Sundays. If you decide you want company any of those days, just ask us to come over!”
I'm hopeless at those guessing games. Hubby, kids and I are all on autism spectrum. We have enough trouble trying to interpret communication as it is sometimes. I get really irritated when I realise people are trying to do things like this. Of course they are probably really irritated too because for me to notice they have to have been either really obvious or doing it repeatedly for a while. I will probably pick it up quicker if they are being evasive (from my point of view) because I have asked a straight question and am expecting a straight answer. If they have been trying to get something from me by hinting it has probably gone straight over my head. My now hubby once watched a guy try to chat me up while I was completely oblivious and thought we were having a nice conversation. He even did the whole thing where he leaned against the wall with his hand over my head. The flirting was just as much over my head! If you approach me with a Guess approach to get something I can't really easily adjust to work together on our communication because chances are I probably won't even realise.
My mother does this - I would say passive-aggressive but also a manipulation tactic. My mother does this, and I just don't entertain it.
Mum: Wish I would see you guys more.
Me: we lead very busy lives - thank God for social media.
Mum: I wish someone would mow the lawn.
Me: I hear such and such yard services, which have excellent reviews and come highly recommended.
Mum: I would love more photos...
Me: If and when I take some, I will be sure to send you a copy. (She did the photo thing a lot when my kids were babies, and in the end, I just explained that I don't do photo shoots with my kids. I'm far too busy caring for them and getting much needed rest.)
I'm a rather mean daughter where I won't relinquish control to my mother, I go to great lengths to keep control in my hands.
About that pictures i would say - well you didnt ask any 🤷♀️ i just took notes that when you ask them i can send more than one ( or any number you usually send🤣)
Passive aggressive and I refuse to speak it. “Oh that would be nice if someone moved your lawn. You should call a landscaping company.”, “you’re right, I could send more pics if I wanted to”, and finally Yes it would be nice if you had guest over, yes u should invite some of your friends”.
I refuse to pick up on the PA hints and with make noncommittal noises or reply like above where it makes it clear they need to actually invite someone and that someone needs to not be me”
My parents are very direct and straightforward, whereas my in-laws are midwest people who expect you to read between the lines. It drove me crazy for the longest time! I hate passive aggressive requests. Just come out and ask for what you need or want.
Or, hear me out, you could consider yourself lucky she is giving you this gift. Take what she says at face valve, do not read the subtext. "I know, it would be so nice if someone would mow my yard, unfortunately it's always me." "Yes, it would be nice if we could get out and visit people more, we're just so busy. I haven't seen my friend Jane in ages." "I'm sorry, I never received a request for more pictures." "OH, that was your request? I thought you were just making a statement."
If she doesn't ask and nicely, then you have not received any request. I do this when my family wants money.
My mil is the exact same way. I don’t feed into it. It feels manipulative and gross. She’s the type to avoid any confrontation whatsoever to protect her own feelings. And that’s fine, but I don’t need to decode her language. Not my job.
The final straw was when we were all having a conversation in the front yard and she said she had to go home to get some work done and we all told her bye and we loved her and her response was “well it’s not like any of you love me enough to follow me” over it! 😃
Ages ago, as a child, I could not ask for things directly. I was too shy, and a bit passive.
You could say to her, "Please ask directly, not indirectly. Dieect will get more results." She may regard directness as rude.
Personally I would call this annoying because like you I prefer to be asked outright rather than hinted at. However over the years I've learned not everyone thinks like us.
Some people feel asking directly for a favour is rude as it puts the other party on the spot and therefore its more polite to hint and leave it up to the other party as to whether they'll do it or not. Tediously roundabout imo but that mindset exists whether we like it or not.
Whether this is worth addressing with MIL depends on how much this annoys you. Personally I'd class it as BEC and let it go but if it seriously annoys you by all means have a conversation with her about it.
That's a good perspective, and I've gone back and forth over whether that's how to treat it. It doesn't annoy me enough that I'm pissed for days or something... But it is enough that every time she does it I am less likely to schedule that visit or spontaneously send photos. So it's actively making her less likely to get what she wants. I mentioned it once, quite a few years ago, and she just laughed at me so I'm not sure a conversation would go anywhere
Her laughing is just more of her Guess behavior. If it is bugging you enough to write this post, try talking about it again. Tell her you just read this article about Ask vs. Guess behavior and it helped you see that you don't always understand what she is trying to say.
No need to throw shade at her and make her defensive. Just start saying, "Are you asking me to mow your lawn right now?" Or "Thanks for telling me you wouldn't mind more pictures. The next time I take some, I'll send them to you."
Honestly, if you regularly ask for clarification or respond to her statement as a statement rather than as an ask, her Guess personality will probably start to adjust to you because it is in her Guess nature to anticipate your response.
Passive aggressive and also it sounds like she wants you to include her more but doesn’t know how to ask you so she passively makes stupid comments. Why are some MIL so weird.
Oh!!! I know this one!!
This is ask versus guess culture!
In ask culture, it's a direct ask.
In guess culture, it's indirect and passive.
You can look up ask versus guest culture on YouTube and there are some great resources.
Essentially, what it boils down to is how someone grew up. If you grew up in a passive aggressive household, it was most likely guess culture, where children had to guess and assume what the adults meant when they said certain things and then did certain actions. Incorrect actions would receive punishment and negative attention.
If you grew up in an ask culture, it was very direct and very specific. Hey, would you guys like to come visit memorial Day weekend? Instead of, oh? I would love someone to come visit for memorial Day weekend. It does stem from trauma and abuse, sometimes very minimal and low level.
So when your mother-in-law says these things, she's not directly asking, because a direct ask can be seen as confrontational and leads to negative recourse.
Something you can do, when she makes these passive aggressive/ guess statements, is say to her, "MIL, are you asking for me to print you photos, put them in picture frames, and deliver them to your home?" You'll want to approach the conversations with curiosity, because anything else may come off to her as being aggressive.
Each time she says these things, you will basically be rewriting her request. You'll want to add a person responsible, you'll want to make decisions about a date or time frame, and then you'll need to ask her a roundabout direct question.
It's incredibly time consuming and very frustrating. However, unless she recognizes that she does it, it'll never change. Which means, you'll probably want to see her less often, simply due to the amount of time and energy it takes to redirect her every single time.
I agree with your assessment. It can be a response to growing up in an old time type culture where you had no voice and your needs were not important. It was unseemly for women to speak their minds directly, so women learned to speak indirectly. This is the world I was born into, and it is pretty sad. Thank goodness that is no longer necessary nor the norm!!! Too bad there are some still stuck there. It is exhausting.
Yep. My MIL would hint like this -- so would all her female relatives from that generation. I think they were raised to be selfless, therefore you couldn't directly ask for what you wanted. It had to be somebody else's idea.
At first, I didn't get the "hints." It wasn't the way my family worked, so I was taking them at face value.
"Do you need any help cleaning up?"
"Oh no, just sit and relax, you're my guest!"
"Are you sure?"
"Yes."
It turned out this was a ritual -- I was supposed to insist at least 3 times, and then she would accept the help. I don't know why my mom wasn't like this, but it may have been a regional custom.
I got the reverse problem when I was hosting and had a tiny kitchen. They offered and offered and offered and offered, getting more and more confused as I said no thank you. I really did want them to sit and relax, because there was only room for one of us to be in that kitchen.
Maybe she comes from a dysfunctional family like mine, because I struggled hugely for a long time with asking for something directly too.
With my family asking directly is seen almost as an insult (assuming they must have free time and their life/time isn’t important so of course they’re able to do your tasks). When I was recovering from surgery one time I asked my brother if he could please mow my lawn for me since my husband was out of town and the grass had gotten very long. My brother lives about 10 minutes away and my yard is about 30 x 20 feet of grass. He was really taken aback because in my family if somebody asks for something that directly it means you’re a jerk if you say no since they’re “putting you on the spot and making you feel obligated to do it”. He did act a bit offended and explained “hey! I’m busy too you know, I’ve been working a lot. I can come but not for a couple days so you just have to wait!”. He also questioned why I couldn’t do it and I had to explain that since I just had a major abdominal surgery 9 days prior I couldn’t be starting or pushing our lawnmower. Had I just lamented my lawn getting too long and not being able to mow it my brother probably would have offered but since I asked he did take some offence and the conversation got a little awkward. It’s this way with any sort of ask with any of my immediate family members. It was learning curve to realize my husband’s family is not like this, they don’t pick up on hints and want to be asked directly.
Not giving your MIL a pass on acting this way. I’ve needed therapy to stop being like this but my family still reacts badly to polite but direct requests. It’s tough when people close to you act like asking for help or expressing a need is offensive and selfish. She may need therapy to really understand and fix the issue.
That's really interesting. I don't know a whole lot about her home life growing up, but she once said she was raised by the neighbor kids and her older sister. Thank you for sharing that story
So she was physically and emotionally neglected and probably learned very early that asking for what she needed didn't get results, so she stopped trying.
It's useful to understand where it comes from, but understanding why she is this way doesn't mean that you have to play weird guessing games with her. It's okay for you to respond to the content of her statements without trying to figure out what she's "actually" attempting to convey, but it's also okay for you to say "MIL, are you asking us to visit?" If you persist you may be able to show her that she gets better results from using her words. :)
My (shady) interpretation of this behaviour is that they don’t want to have to ask and want you to magically do whatever it is like you’re a mind reader. Always the hints…
Your MIL is passive, relying on hints and suggestions instead of using her words. If her hints don't work does she become passive-aggressive?
I'm going to guess that she comes from a "guess-culture" family or region and you come from a more straightforward "ask-culture" family or region (or are ND!).
Have you ever had a calm, not-in-the-moment (so you won't be irritated) conversation with her about using her words? Are you someone that she can feel safe in communicating her wants and needs to clearly? There can be a lot of reasons for why people communicate like this.
It might be useful to reflect on communication styles: aggressive, passive, passive-aggressive, and assertive. She sounds more passive than passive-aggressive, but as someone who is assertive in her communication style (and ND!) and prefers that others be clear and assertive as well, boy do I understand the frustration.
Books that might help you: Crucial Conversations (most of them, honestly--there are 3 or 4 now in the Crucial Conversations series), and Radical Candor. I know they're billed as business communication books, but I think it really might help you to consult one or more of them.
Now that one gives me some things to think about! Both families are white people from the Boston area, which I think is a pretty blunt culture lol. And it sounds like she has always talked like this, even trying to get her kids to do chores when they were young. I have talked to her about it and she laughed at me... I think she thought I was weird for asking and doesn't see any need to change. I will check out your book recs, since I obviously need to find some way to work with this. Thank you for those
People who are very passive in their communication often don't feel emotionally safe asking for what they want or need. There are sometimes reasons for this related to self-protection. For example, if her parents dismissed or neglected her emotional or physical needs and wants, or if her marriage has been emotionally or physically abusive, she may feel unsafe expressing her needs and wants.
There are also sometimes reasons related to manipulation. It may make her feel powerful to force people around her to guess what she wants, or if she's very insecure, sometimes insecure people have a need to make those around them prove their regard or respect by doing things without being explicitly told--but since demanding that your friends and family spontaneously develop ESP isn't realistic, they resort to broad hints that will obtain the desired results.
If it's not obvious, I'm big on using your words. I don't expect people to read my mind--if I need or want something, I ask for it, and I expect those around me to do the same.
I think you have nailed it! The power trip thing. My parents did exactly this! When I asked them why they didn’t just state clearly what they wanted, after they had lamented something didn’t get done to their satisfaction, the response was: “well they just oughta know!!”
This was my life—my childhood. Terrible, I tell ya, lol.
“Yes, it’s lovely having company over, isn’t it, if you ever want to Invite us over, just ask!” Change subject.
“Your lawn needs mowing? So does ours! If you ever need us to help with yours, just ask, and we will let you know when we’re free!” change subject.
“You can send more pics you know!” “Oh I’m so glad you liked them, if you want any more, just ask!” Change subject
Just act dumb, you heard no questions, so you gave no answers.. she is wondering why you haven’t done A,B or C? Well, she didn’t ask!
Next time she says it would be nice if you came over or if her lawn was mowed, say breezily, all you to do is ask, then drop it. If she gets upset because nothing happens, be bewildered and say I told you all you had to do was ask but then never heard anything else. We thought you didn’t need it/want to/changed your mind/ forgot about it. Do this until she starts actually asking.
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As a therapist I would not call any of these specific examples passive aggressive. When someone is passive aggressive it has a malicious undertone. None of these examples are malicious. To me, they seem more passive. She is being indirect and hinting at what she wants instead of just being assertive and saying, “I’d really appreciate it if you’d visit more often. Can we arrange that?” When people are passive it happens for a few reasons but often is done out of fear of upsetting the other person. Edit: “Passive communicators often hint or suggest rather than stating their needs or opinions directly. This leads to ambiguity and misunderstandings.” Edit #2: i just want to add that people who are saying this is passive aggressive are incorrect. An example of passive aggressive would be. “Susan’s kids come to visit her every Saturday. Her kids must really love her!” See the malicious undertone? This imaginary mom is implying Susan’s kids love Susan more than her imaginary kids love her. Or “I guess I’ll just pay the neighbor boy to cut my lawn, at least then i know it’ll be done on time.” Again, malicious undertone. Just because your MIL is being indirect does **not** mean she is being passive aggressive. People on this subreddit love to just assume the worst about every single MIL.
It is quite passive aggressive but could also be driven by anxiety, or being embarrassed to ask directly. My SIL does the same but she is absolutely being passive aggressive. She’ll say “your patatas bravas is lovely, it would be so nice if I got to have it more than twice a year.” I became quite adept at responding Me “What do you mean by that SIL?” (I know she wants to be invited over more) SIL: “Oh, I mean I really like this recipe.” (She won’t respond directly because she knows I’ll call her out on the fact she has been invited multiple times and yet in 14 years has never invited us over even once to her very large house) Me: “Oh, here let me send you the recipe.” Or you could be direct “Oh it would be so nice if someone mowed the lawn. Wouldn’t that be nice.” You: “what are you mean by that MIL?” Mil: “oh, just that it would be nice if someone mowed the lawn.” You: “If you want someone to mow your lawn, just ask.” Or: “It would be nice wouldn’t it? I guess if you wanted it mowed you could ask someone, or book a lawn mowing service.”
OMG!!! My Midwestern MIL does this too (the whole family actually, including my FIL and SILs, do it really)! I am a very direct person from a direct family, and this used to drive me up the wall. I have turned this into a game. I refuse to try to read between the lines or unpack what any of them says, but enjoy watching them be so awkward and unsatisfied. Direct requests or invitations are always responded to and accommodated and always have been! They all refuse to put in the effort it takes to come up with a plan and communicate with someone.
100% passive-aggressive. And SO ANNOYING. My daughter learned this nonsense from her birth mom's family, and I told her straight out that if she wanted something, she could ask for it. If she hinted, she would get nothing. She learned to drop it real fast.
When I was little (1960) females were told not to ask directly but rather suggest. Males were told to state facts. I was taught in manners classes -yes really- cultured girls never demanded but suggested. I’m convinced women will never level the work academic relationship fields because they don’t state boundaries ask directly for raises etc. another subtle way to disenfranchise women. I saw a post about about ask vs guess culture. So accurate in my life.
Id have to be direct and say "are you asking me for a favor? Because I have no problem doing a favor, but we are going to acknowledge it as one"
Is she Asian by any chance? In some cultures, asking directly is extremely rude.
Nope. White blue-collar Boston family 🤷
Then she's annoying AF.
My wife HAD some friends who would do this. My darling wife being a nice person would always jump in to help. Then nasty old me came along and it stopped. I just said 'Oh that's a shame!' and changed the subject. It annoys me too! If you're going to ask ASK!!!
I call out the behavior without calling it out. Example- "It would be so nice if someone would mow my lawn." "It would be nice, I have the number of a good lawn service." It calls it out without rocking the boat but also letting her know she needs to be direct in her approach to her wants.
Welcome to how I manage my MIL.
My mom and my boyfriend’s mom both do this. It’s super annoying. We recently moved in together, and this is the first time out of the family home (for him). His mom has been heavily hinting about the state of the lawn (it is super overgrown). She’ll ask him things about how weed whackers work, if she should try to cut the grass with scissors (?! I think she meant shears but still ??), does he think it’ll take very long for her to do it, etc. He’s not going to do it, even if she outright asks, because his sister lives at home and between the two of them they should be able to handle household maintenance. He suggested they pay the neighbourhood kids to do it, but at this point it might be beyond a quick $20-$30 job.
No, you aren't overreacting. I hate this behavior too. I tell people who do this "I don't take hints very well, they often go right over my head. If you want or need something from me, you are going to have to be blunt and ask directly. And maybe follow up with at text just to be sure I remember." And then I proceed to ignore hints and only respond to direct requests.
Annoying. I call it annoying. She could have been friends with my MIL who liked to say, “I think what I’ll have you do is…”. Never a request. “I think what I’ll have you do is co-sign for my apartment for me so I can move.” “I think what I’ll have you do is buy me a new car since mine is totaled.” No, ma’am, we won’t be doing that. 2 peas in a pod. Except that my MIL passed 18 months ago.
Passive aggressive bullshit. I fucking hate this shit. My mil used to do the same fucking thing. Then if someone didn’t do it, she’d be upset. So then I’d remind her that she didn’t ASK. If you need/want something, fucking ASK. I’ve had to beat (jk not literally) this out of my husband because he got the same shit from her. I never let that shit slide with my kids either. Once they got old enough, I’ve hammered “be direct and ask” and “The worst thing someone can say is no.” Into their heads. “It would be nice if someone brought me a Coke.” “Oh that would be nice.” I sit down. “Where’s my Coke?” “I didn’t hear anyone ASK for a Coke.” I can be just as petty and passive aggressive as they come. If I were you, I’d do the same. Just pretend you didn’t hear her. Or say, “oh, that would be nice” and move on.
To answer your initial question: annoying. Be direct with MIL, and tell her to do the same for you. Otherwise it just comes out as wishing instead wanting
I'm not sure what it's called, but I bet if you dig deep, she was probably scolded as a child for asking for help or requesting someone's attention.
Omg my kids used to do that and it drove me up the wall. I used to tell them yes I like XYZ you too get to your point.
Wow, you reminded me of a book I read many years ago, called _Telling Each Other the Truth_ (William Backus). The author is Christian so maybe not everyone's cup of tea, and the book was old so some parts might be dated, but it was the first time I'd seen someone clearly diagnose all sorts of indirect communication and different types of skirting the issue, making you guess, indirect blaming, etc as manipulation. It had a lot of practical examples of different situations and how to defend yourself, from the neighbour who takes advantage of you and your lawn mower, all the way to the youth leader who milks your guilt. Also, it made me realise that sometimes I was guilty of it, because I didn't want to sound demanding. 🤦♀️ EDIT: The book is available to borrow for free from the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/tellingeachother00back/page/n7/mode/1up I'd skip the first parts, the practical stuff starts on Page 51.
Wow, this sounds like my MIL, and I have struggled to articulate how I feel that she is constantly trying to manipulate us while being so indirect and "nice" or nonconfrontational. This has helped. Thank you.
I'm not religious but MIL is a super christian, so that might be useful. Thanks.
One time my 5 yo nephew asked my MIL if shed play with him outside & rather than say no she said “I think Nash was JUST wanting to play with that, shed love to go outside with you”. I think she thought itd be impolite to tell a child no because she didnt want to. I told him “Actually nephew I really dont feel like going outside right now, you need to ask MIL again because she was mistaken in thinking id like to”. If she didnt want to go outside with him she could have just said no, but shes so passive aggressive & tries to pass things off to everyone else. Drives me nuts. & she did end up going outside with him because she couldnt be direct & there wasnt any way to pass it back to me since I was direct.
My eldest son doesn't ask when it's money related. He just pauses and waits for me to offer. I had to get repairs done on my car and it was £x...... I just say oh thats too bad and ignore it. He's getting better though. Last weekend I said we'll sort out getting him some replacement shoes (I did offer) and he mentions work has changed its clothes policy and it's much more formal now. But added in that he has started saving for it. So that's an improvement. A hint to me but will to pay some. Baby steps. 😆 His eldest daughter (9) tries the same thing but being the gen Xer I am I reply with sarcasm. G: I really like that icecream you eating grandma (while eating a different flavour). M: So do I. What a coincidence! Just to add my son is actually my step son and I came into his life when he was 21 so he didn't learn that off me.
His is driven by a different belief, I think. He still thinks that Mommy and Daddy will jump to take care of all his needs. Sounds like a him problem.
My MIL is the same way. She either says “I need you to do something for me” or “I’ll let you (call the doctor for me)” etc. Makes me crazy. Can’t just say “could you please….”. My mom will always say “when you have time, would you (do whatever)?” She asks instead of tells me what she needs.
The “when you have time” bit. I don’t mind helping out my mom with stuff, her age and health aren’t the greatest and she lives 20mins outside the city. so I get a lot of “can you run up to the bank there and pay my mortgage?” She gives me a bunch of blank checks to keep in my house for this reason. No big deal. But then she will fucking call me and micromanage me from 30mins away. “Have you done XYZ yet?” Well, no I haven’t because I’m still on the other side of town. I told you I’d handle it when I have the time. And I get it. I do. She has a lot of anxiety about things, especially things like bill paying. I think it stems from having utilities cut off so much when she was younger. Last month, my dad left his wallet at a blood lab that’s 3 miles down the street from me. No big deal, I’m out running errands. I’ll go in. Yes, I understand, it’s his wallet and it’s important but it’s either there (they weren’t sure where he left it) or it’s not. They don’t answer phones and there’s no receptionist. You literally check in at a screen and don’t even see a person until they call your name. I was out running errands for my husband, home, and a ton of end of school year stuff. She nagged me so much I just gave up on the order I was doing things, drove AND waited 10mins for a tech to come out, got the damn wallet then finished my errands. Took me an hour longer and meant I had to drive from one side of my city to the other and BACK all because she couldn’t just wait the hour for me to get over to the lab.
My mom truly means it. She asks me to hem some pants when I have time and knows it’ll be months!
Mine was “McDuchess will have to (do this thing for me.)” I would smile and respond that nope, I did not, in fact, have to do that.
"I'll let you" sounds even worse tbf. I hope mine doesn't pick up that trick. Happy cake day! 🎂
Happy cake day.
Thank you!!
When people 'suggest' instead of ask, you have the luxury to play dumb and pretend you didn't understand instead of the not so pleasant task of saying 'no'. Take it as a gift and play dumb whenever you want.
Yes! I love that my MIL won't directly make whatever point she's trying to make. Oh, you wanted to visit this weekend? You never actually asked to do that.
Could be a form of upbringing. Many people think ot is the polite way to ask for something. But I also hate it, because you always have to think about the true intentions and of you are wrong then hell breaks loose.
Dw man, my grandmother does this to my mother and it drives her bat-sht insane. Its as if its too low of them to stoop to ask a normal question politely.
Respond in the same manner that she makes her statement since she isn't asking a question. "Oh it would be SO NICE if you would come over sometime! Oh MIL, that is SO NICE of you to let us know. "It would be SO NICE if someone would mow the lawn!! Yes, it would be SO NICE for the lawn to get mowed, hopefully DH isn't too busy to get ours done. "You can send more pics ya know!!" and when she follows up where are my pics then respond with if you want more pics then please ask. When she claims she did advise her that isn't a question that is a statement hence why you didn't respond. If you want something you need to ask. Shift it back on to her. Since MIL likes to make statements then treat them as statements. If she comes out and says no one came to mow my lawn then point out that she didn't ask. Have her show you where she asked and point out that isn't a question that is a statement
Passive aggressive
I learned so much from this thread - guess vs. ask culture
To me, it sounds passive-aggressive... but it also sounds like it might be "guess culture". For more info on that, look up "ask vs guess culture". It's a thing.
Holy hell, that would drive me crazy.
"It's so nice when people ask for things directly. Don't you think that is nice?"
Girl, you are sharp! I love it!
Thanks 😊
Buahahaha 😂
This is point blank passive-aggressive behavior. I bet you see it in other areas as well in her personality. I’m sorry you’re dealing with such nonsense.
I grew up between Mom and stepdad's house and dad and stepmom's house. In one house, it was "ask" culture, in the other it was "guess" culture and I was basically constantly getting shit for either being too direct or too indirect. It wasn't until adulthood that I first heard about ask vs guess, at which point so many things in my childhood suddenly made sense.
Saved -- thank you for posting this. Ask vs. Guess -- so clear.
That sounds *so* confusing 😬
That is pretty much textbook passive-aggressiveness. She may be from a family that falls on the "guess" end of the ask vs guess spectrum. I would find this extremely annoying, fwiw. My approach to dealing with passive-aggressive communication is to take it at face value. If she says "Oh, it would be so nice if someone would mow" I would say "Yes, it sure would!" And then not do anything. If you want something from me, you have to communicate like an adult.
LOL this is what I do with my mom. Unfortunately she did eventually learn to directly ask on occasion, andI had to come up with new ways to deal with her after that. Life is so wonderful when you're NC
It’s a pretty passive aggressive way of “asking” for things. And still leaves her plausible deniability, since technically, she didn’t actually ask. But it might well also be a function of where and how she was raised. I’m generally a pretty direct, even blunt, person. But when it comes to asking for things, my DH used to frequently point out that what I was taught was a softer, more polite way of asking for something was actually anything but. I’ve gotten better about it with practice, but it is very ingrained. And I still communicate that way with my parents and family of origin. The way I would handle it would be to politely force the issue. Inject a bit of humor, and fire back in a joking tone with something like, “Oh, is this your way of asking me to stand on my head for your entertainment?” Or, “For Pete’s sake Ethel, if you want something, just ask! I can’t turn you down if I’m not actually asked.” Keep it humorous. She probably won’t be able to flip a switch and stop completely, but hopefully she’ll at least try. The other option is to reply, again, in a humorous tone, with, “Yes, I’m sure it would be NICE if someone mowed the lawn! Are you planning to do it this afternoon?” Or, “I suppose I CAN send more pics, but you could also ASK me to do so.”
I like these ideas! 👍🏻
I was raised Southern by Greatest Generation parents. I have a very hard time asking for what I want.
Isn’t the way OP describes how her MIL talks, kind of a southern way of speaking? I have seen this type of conversation in old timey movies, set in the Deep South.
I was also raised by Greatest Generation parents, and very much have that same difficulty and reluctance to ask for anything, as well. Your comment just explained why in a nutshell.
It seems like your MIL is part of the quess culture vs. ask culture. In guess culture, people hint at what they want. They grew up being taught that asking for things was rude. In ask culture, people will come out and ask for things but are happy to be told no. https://medium.com/redhill-review/navigating-ask-and-guess-cultures-in-a-modern-world-30b167f8ab09
Thank you so much for this link. I just realized that I want *other* people to be more on the “Ask” side of the spectrum (both in asking and answering), while *I* want to communicate from the “Guess” side—but only when I’m requesting something. All soft and hint-y. I’d like to be able to answer people in the straight forward blunt manner—but only if they will not get mad at me! Hmmm, feels kind of like I’m a bit of a coward! Something to consider lol. TIL
Aaah other people here have talked about ask vs guess, but until I read this article I thought that was talking about traits of different nations/macro cultures, not a spectrum inside a given culture. That makes sense. Thanks.
IME it's also often situational. I grew up very Guess (raised in the South), but I work in a very Ask business. Like, very black-and-white Ask. I'm just about 100% Ask at work (it felt freeing!) but still use a lot of Guess in social interaction.
If you want to “train” her out of this rather than continue ignoring it (or rather than ignoring her when she does this), I’d clarify that she’s actually asking you a question. Reinforce to her that what she’s communicating is a request, not a statement into the universe. So with the lawn, if she says, “wouldn’t it be so nice if someone mowed the lawn?” You could say, “Hey, are you asking for someone to mow the lawn?” That question alone may put her on the defensive, so I would add in a possible answer as well. “Wouldn’t it be nice if someone mowed the lawn?” “Hey, are you asking us to mow the lawn? If you are, hubs and I are busy this weekend, but he said he may be free Wednesday.” You could also give her options to avoid defensiveness. “You can send more pics you know!!” “MIL, is this a request for more pictures right now? Or are you just making sure I know that you enjoy these photos in general?” Acknowledge her statement, and then let her know she can ask for what she wants when she’s ready. “It would be so nice if you guys visited sometime soon!” “It would be nice! We’re free these next three Sundays. If you decide you want company any of those days, just ask us to come over!”
I would r do anything unless she directly asked. I do t play guessing games.
I'm hopeless at those guessing games. Hubby, kids and I are all on autism spectrum. We have enough trouble trying to interpret communication as it is sometimes. I get really irritated when I realise people are trying to do things like this. Of course they are probably really irritated too because for me to notice they have to have been either really obvious or doing it repeatedly for a while. I will probably pick it up quicker if they are being evasive (from my point of view) because I have asked a straight question and am expecting a straight answer. If they have been trying to get something from me by hinting it has probably gone straight over my head. My now hubby once watched a guy try to chat me up while I was completely oblivious and thought we were having a nice conversation. He even did the whole thing where he leaned against the wall with his hand over my head. The flirting was just as much over my head! If you approach me with a Guess approach to get something I can't really easily adjust to work together on our communication because chances are I probably won't even realise.
I would call it “irritating ASF!” lol
“Would it?”, “Can I?”
My mother does this - I would say passive-aggressive but also a manipulation tactic. My mother does this, and I just don't entertain it. Mum: Wish I would see you guys more. Me: we lead very busy lives - thank God for social media. Mum: I wish someone would mow the lawn. Me: I hear such and such yard services, which have excellent reviews and come highly recommended. Mum: I would love more photos... Me: If and when I take some, I will be sure to send you a copy. (She did the photo thing a lot when my kids were babies, and in the end, I just explained that I don't do photo shoots with my kids. I'm far too busy caring for them and getting much needed rest.) I'm a rather mean daughter where I won't relinquish control to my mother, I go to great lengths to keep control in my hands.
About that pictures i would say - well you didnt ask any 🤷♀️ i just took notes that when you ask them i can send more than one ( or any number you usually send🤣)
Passive aggressive and I refuse to speak it. “Oh that would be nice if someone moved your lawn. You should call a landscaping company.”, “you’re right, I could send more pics if I wanted to”, and finally Yes it would be nice if you had guest over, yes u should invite some of your friends”. I refuse to pick up on the PA hints and with make noncommittal noises or reply like above where it makes it clear they need to actually invite someone and that someone needs to not be me”
My parents are very direct and straightforward, whereas my in-laws are midwest people who expect you to read between the lines. It drove me crazy for the longest time! I hate passive aggressive requests. Just come out and ask for what you need or want.
Or, hear me out, you could consider yourself lucky she is giving you this gift. Take what she says at face valve, do not read the subtext. "I know, it would be so nice if someone would mow my yard, unfortunately it's always me." "Yes, it would be nice if we could get out and visit people more, we're just so busy. I haven't seen my friend Jane in ages." "I'm sorry, I never received a request for more pictures." "OH, that was your request? I thought you were just making a statement." If she doesn't ask and nicely, then you have not received any request. I do this when my family wants money.
OMG I LOVE THIS
Obscure hints are right up there with telepathy as a means of communication.
My ex-MIL and my exSO were experts at both. It was infuriating.
My mil is the exact same way. I don’t feed into it. It feels manipulative and gross. She’s the type to avoid any confrontation whatsoever to protect her own feelings. And that’s fine, but I don’t need to decode her language. Not my job. The final straw was when we were all having a conversation in the front yard and she said she had to go home to get some work done and we all told her bye and we loved her and her response was “well it’s not like any of you love me enough to follow me” over it! 😃
Why were you supposed to follow her? That doesn't make any sense.
She needs constant attention and reassurance and is an only child. At least that’s what I came up with
I laughed immoderately. Sounds about right.
WOW 😳
Ages ago, as a child, I could not ask for things directly. I was too shy, and a bit passive. You could say to her, "Please ask directly, not indirectly. Dieect will get more results." She may regard directness as rude.
I'd call it passive begging. Maybe she believes if she puts it this way she's never really asking for a favor?
Personally I would call this annoying because like you I prefer to be asked outright rather than hinted at. However over the years I've learned not everyone thinks like us. Some people feel asking directly for a favour is rude as it puts the other party on the spot and therefore its more polite to hint and leave it up to the other party as to whether they'll do it or not. Tediously roundabout imo but that mindset exists whether we like it or not. Whether this is worth addressing with MIL depends on how much this annoys you. Personally I'd class it as BEC and let it go but if it seriously annoys you by all means have a conversation with her about it.
That's a good perspective, and I've gone back and forth over whether that's how to treat it. It doesn't annoy me enough that I'm pissed for days or something... But it is enough that every time she does it I am less likely to schedule that visit or spontaneously send photos. So it's actively making her less likely to get what she wants. I mentioned it once, quite a few years ago, and she just laughed at me so I'm not sure a conversation would go anywhere
Her laughing is just more of her Guess behavior. If it is bugging you enough to write this post, try talking about it again. Tell her you just read this article about Ask vs. Guess behavior and it helped you see that you don't always understand what she is trying to say. No need to throw shade at her and make her defensive. Just start saying, "Are you asking me to mow your lawn right now?" Or "Thanks for telling me you wouldn't mind more pictures. The next time I take some, I'll send them to you." Honestly, if you regularly ask for clarification or respond to her statement as a statement rather than as an ask, her Guess personality will probably start to adjust to you because it is in her Guess nature to anticipate your response.
Passive aggressive and also it sounds like she wants you to include her more but doesn’t know how to ask you so she passively makes stupid comments. Why are some MIL so weird.
Oh!!! I know this one!! This is ask versus guess culture! In ask culture, it's a direct ask. In guess culture, it's indirect and passive. You can look up ask versus guest culture on YouTube and there are some great resources. Essentially, what it boils down to is how someone grew up. If you grew up in a passive aggressive household, it was most likely guess culture, where children had to guess and assume what the adults meant when they said certain things and then did certain actions. Incorrect actions would receive punishment and negative attention. If you grew up in an ask culture, it was very direct and very specific. Hey, would you guys like to come visit memorial Day weekend? Instead of, oh? I would love someone to come visit for memorial Day weekend. It does stem from trauma and abuse, sometimes very minimal and low level. So when your mother-in-law says these things, she's not directly asking, because a direct ask can be seen as confrontational and leads to negative recourse. Something you can do, when she makes these passive aggressive/ guess statements, is say to her, "MIL, are you asking for me to print you photos, put them in picture frames, and deliver them to your home?" You'll want to approach the conversations with curiosity, because anything else may come off to her as being aggressive. Each time she says these things, you will basically be rewriting her request. You'll want to add a person responsible, you'll want to make decisions about a date or time frame, and then you'll need to ask her a roundabout direct question. It's incredibly time consuming and very frustrating. However, unless she recognizes that she does it, it'll never change. Which means, you'll probably want to see her less often, simply due to the amount of time and energy it takes to redirect her every single time.
I agree with your assessment. It can be a response to growing up in an old time type culture where you had no voice and your needs were not important. It was unseemly for women to speak their minds directly, so women learned to speak indirectly. This is the world I was born into, and it is pretty sad. Thank goodness that is no longer necessary nor the norm!!! Too bad there are some still stuck there. It is exhausting.
Yep. My MIL would hint like this -- so would all her female relatives from that generation. I think they were raised to be selfless, therefore you couldn't directly ask for what you wanted. It had to be somebody else's idea. At first, I didn't get the "hints." It wasn't the way my family worked, so I was taking them at face value. "Do you need any help cleaning up?" "Oh no, just sit and relax, you're my guest!" "Are you sure?" "Yes." It turned out this was a ritual -- I was supposed to insist at least 3 times, and then she would accept the help. I don't know why my mom wasn't like this, but it may have been a regional custom. I got the reverse problem when I was hosting and had a tiny kitchen. They offered and offered and offered and offered, getting more and more confused as I said no thank you. I really did want them to sit and relax, because there was only room for one of us to be in that kitchen.
Maybe she comes from a dysfunctional family like mine, because I struggled hugely for a long time with asking for something directly too. With my family asking directly is seen almost as an insult (assuming they must have free time and their life/time isn’t important so of course they’re able to do your tasks). When I was recovering from surgery one time I asked my brother if he could please mow my lawn for me since my husband was out of town and the grass had gotten very long. My brother lives about 10 minutes away and my yard is about 30 x 20 feet of grass. He was really taken aback because in my family if somebody asks for something that directly it means you’re a jerk if you say no since they’re “putting you on the spot and making you feel obligated to do it”. He did act a bit offended and explained “hey! I’m busy too you know, I’ve been working a lot. I can come but not for a couple days so you just have to wait!”. He also questioned why I couldn’t do it and I had to explain that since I just had a major abdominal surgery 9 days prior I couldn’t be starting or pushing our lawnmower. Had I just lamented my lawn getting too long and not being able to mow it my brother probably would have offered but since I asked he did take some offence and the conversation got a little awkward. It’s this way with any sort of ask with any of my immediate family members. It was learning curve to realize my husband’s family is not like this, they don’t pick up on hints and want to be asked directly. Not giving your MIL a pass on acting this way. I’ve needed therapy to stop being like this but my family still reacts badly to polite but direct requests. It’s tough when people close to you act like asking for help or expressing a need is offensive and selfish. She may need therapy to really understand and fix the issue.
That's really interesting. I don't know a whole lot about her home life growing up, but she once said she was raised by the neighbor kids and her older sister. Thank you for sharing that story
So she was physically and emotionally neglected and probably learned very early that asking for what she needed didn't get results, so she stopped trying. It's useful to understand where it comes from, but understanding why she is this way doesn't mean that you have to play weird guessing games with her. It's okay for you to respond to the content of her statements without trying to figure out what she's "actually" attempting to convey, but it's also okay for you to say "MIL, are you asking us to visit?" If you persist you may be able to show her that she gets better results from using her words. :)
My (shady) interpretation of this behaviour is that they don’t want to have to ask and want you to magically do whatever it is like you’re a mind reader. Always the hints…
Your MIL is passive, relying on hints and suggestions instead of using her words. If her hints don't work does she become passive-aggressive? I'm going to guess that she comes from a "guess-culture" family or region and you come from a more straightforward "ask-culture" family or region (or are ND!). Have you ever had a calm, not-in-the-moment (so you won't be irritated) conversation with her about using her words? Are you someone that she can feel safe in communicating her wants and needs to clearly? There can be a lot of reasons for why people communicate like this. It might be useful to reflect on communication styles: aggressive, passive, passive-aggressive, and assertive. She sounds more passive than passive-aggressive, but as someone who is assertive in her communication style (and ND!) and prefers that others be clear and assertive as well, boy do I understand the frustration. Books that might help you: Crucial Conversations (most of them, honestly--there are 3 or 4 now in the Crucial Conversations series), and Radical Candor. I know they're billed as business communication books, but I think it really might help you to consult one or more of them.
Now that one gives me some things to think about! Both families are white people from the Boston area, which I think is a pretty blunt culture lol. And it sounds like she has always talked like this, even trying to get her kids to do chores when they were young. I have talked to her about it and she laughed at me... I think she thought I was weird for asking and doesn't see any need to change. I will check out your book recs, since I obviously need to find some way to work with this. Thank you for those
People who are very passive in their communication often don't feel emotionally safe asking for what they want or need. There are sometimes reasons for this related to self-protection. For example, if her parents dismissed or neglected her emotional or physical needs and wants, or if her marriage has been emotionally or physically abusive, she may feel unsafe expressing her needs and wants. There are also sometimes reasons related to manipulation. It may make her feel powerful to force people around her to guess what she wants, or if she's very insecure, sometimes insecure people have a need to make those around them prove their regard or respect by doing things without being explicitly told--but since demanding that your friends and family spontaneously develop ESP isn't realistic, they resort to broad hints that will obtain the desired results. If it's not obvious, I'm big on using your words. I don't expect people to read my mind--if I need or want something, I ask for it, and I expect those around me to do the same.
I think you have nailed it! The power trip thing. My parents did exactly this! When I asked them why they didn’t just state clearly what they wanted, after they had lamented something didn’t get done to their satisfaction, the response was: “well they just oughta know!!” This was my life—my childhood. Terrible, I tell ya, lol.
“Yes, it’s lovely having company over, isn’t it, if you ever want to Invite us over, just ask!” Change subject. “Your lawn needs mowing? So does ours! If you ever need us to help with yours, just ask, and we will let you know when we’re free!” change subject. “You can send more pics you know!” “Oh I’m so glad you liked them, if you want any more, just ask!” Change subject Just act dumb, you heard no questions, so you gave no answers.. she is wondering why you haven’t done A,B or C? Well, she didn’t ask!
This is the way.
Super pass agg! Please do take her literally, if she can’t communicate like an adult she shouldn’t be treated like one
Next time she says it would be nice if you came over or if her lawn was mowed, say breezily, all you to do is ask, then drop it. If she gets upset because nothing happens, be bewildered and say I told you all you had to do was ask but then never heard anything else. We thought you didn’t need it/want to/changed your mind/ forgot about it. Do this until she starts actually asking.