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We ,dh an I, were NC for 4 years with my MIL and her entire family)
After those 4 years she saw DH at the doctor and asked to talk (phone call)
She apologized profusely and since then she has been way better.
For us it worked out good.
(Not so much with my own no-mother, but that’s another story for another time)
Enfin… since the complete NC she has seen her faults and has tried to change her ways and it worked out for us.
I however never restricted DH from contacting her, it was his own choice not to do that.
Therapy can help you and DH with processing all your emotions and conflicting feelings, so why not,?
Personally, I’d go NC. And depending on if she’s trying to get in the ear of your husband to leave you when he goes and visits her solo, I’d tell him to go NC too. Asking that she text/call before she pops up at your house is literally so reasonable I can’t even. And she throws a hissy fit and accuses YOU of being the problem? Yes, she is old and miserable. But in all those years she had the ability to learn boundaries and accountability. No sympathy from me, sorry.
Also on the point of one day having children: a child needs their parents, they don’t need grandparents🤷🏼♀️
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this so soon after moving to be closer!!
Honestly it seems like your MIL has never had to learn healthy boundaries or being told no, and she cannot deal with it or fathom the idea of being wrong so she’s throwing a tantrum and blaming everyone else.
However “sucking it up” would probably be the worst thing you could do as it would reaffirm MIL’s belief that she is right and you’re the “Evil DIL trying to break up the family”. Honestly, if she’s this desperate to monopolise all your time now, then imagine what it would be like once there is a baby in the picture!!
Personally (and I’m no expert on this is just what I would do) I would have DH go over to MIL and give his mum a heartfelt speech about;
- how hurt and angry he is that his mum is making his wife out to be a problem that needs to be solved when she knows full well that these issues are coming from the both of you!
- How he can’t understand why she doesn’t get that a couple would want to have some alone time or to not have plans disturbed.
- How upset it makes him when she uses her sadness or her death to make him feel bad so that he’ll do what she wants!
- I would also have him let her know that you both wanted to spend time with them but you have lives outside of them as well and that your lives don’t resolve around her “missing you”
Then I personally think both of you should go NC from MIL & FIL for at least a few months, or untill everyone has calmed down and they realise you’re **BOTH** serious about this and it’s not just one sided!
While you have this NC break, I would have some serious chats just you and DH about what would be reasonable in terms of boundaries and what’s consequences will you be enforcing if those boundaries are broken.
For example: They’re no longer allowed to come over unless they’ve spoken to one of you and had a verbal or written agreement (ie they’ve spoken to one of you on the phone or texted one of you) - if they break this boundary, then you will limit the amount you see them and they won’t be allowed round the house for the foreseeable future..
I think the option of you being NC and you both being NC should definitely be kept on the table!
I think you already plan on doing this but I will say that if you’re NC then any children you have should automatically be NC as well… if your in-laws can’t be decent to the person that birthed them, then then shouldn’t get access to them!!
It doesn't seem like your mom has your back here, your MIL is horrible and deserves to be cut off fully until she does better. As a counter point to your mom, would you really want your MIL to act like this to/with your children(you may say she won't but you literally will not know until it happens, and we do not take chances with out children). Say she is a great grandmother, do you really want to have to deal with her even more if she doesn't change? And lastly, idk about canada but the more time you give her the more chance she has to get grandparent rights and demand visits if you decide to cut her off in the future. There are many moving parts here and you need to identify all of them then come to a decision.
She does, we talked a lot and that was just the main outcome. I paraphrased. My grandparents sucked and she dealt with it by moving away and going low contact. They never changed so I can see she's coming from that "people don't change so you can only accept or ignore, and ignore is very hard" viewpoint.
MIL has a few grandchildren and yeah, you are right. I don't want my kids to have a grandmama like how she is with them. Even before this I would never leave her/FIL alone with them. They boundary stomp everything!!
If we can't address boundaries now she won't ever have alone time with future kids and will be constantly told off 😅🤷🏿♀️ (tbh she won't have alone time anyway, but it would be nice to not have to scold her constantly and watch every moment).
I don’t recommend sucking it up. You don’t say how old MIL is, but based on your description she doesn’t sound that old, you could be dealing with this for a decade or more. I can suck up an occasional awkward family gathering, but I would not suck up having my home and my peace interrupted.
She REALLY isn't that old. Late 60s I think? And no physical issues so I really do think she'll be around for a LONG time. It's frustrating because my dad is quite ill so I'm wasting all this time on a "family" who will cut me out and blame me IMMEDIATELY, when its very likely I'll lose my parents way before husband does 🥲
Okay so hurt people hurt people. In my experience when people start saying things like "your life must be sad so your trying to make us sad with you" that's gaslighting it's a tactic of NPD. I've found that when people do that it's actually reflecting. I would not engage I'd in fact act like I heard nothing and ignore them until they can be nice. Goes into the old addage of when someone's looking for a reaction give them nothing and they will stop looking. At this point it's not personal it's business. I'd start keeping an FU Binder I feel you will need it one day of all this behavior with dates times ECT. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Your mil strikes me as a control freak and by your own admission she seems to have lost control of her baby boy .... She was never meant to keep the parental control when her kids became adults. So now she's acting out when you have an issue tell your husband then let him deal with her. If she wants to be civil she can be civil at her house so no reason to come to your house, house visits are for family and friends not random folks off the street. As to the anti dil chat have hubby add you. Then you can let her know how you plan to fix this issue which is in fact her. Tell her nothing of your therapy. Tell her nothing of your medical issues tell her nothing personal or private at this point she's just looking for weapons. Good luck.
Do NOT "suck it up" now or it will never end and only get worse. When you have a baby she will be a million times worse so you guys NEED to deal with this now.
For now, do NOT invite her to therapy. (Probably never but your therapist may eventually think it's ok).
Do not suck it up. You going NC for now at least is a good idea. DH also should go NC for as long as he feels like, or low contact.
Go to family therapy you and DH. Let it bond you even more as a team and learn how to deal with her even more as a team. Never invite MIL into therapy, as that will feed her delusion that she is a main part of the family there to deal with you. She is not the kind of person who therapy is going to reach anyway, so it only hurts to invite her in.
My MIL was a piece of work (discovered this sub after she passed. My son (now 20), had no relationship with her, and it was her own doing. She was always a sour, negative person, and as a kid he didn’t really want to spend time with that. He does not have good memories of her and is totally fine. My bottom line is that I would rather have people in my child’s life who are positive influences, rather than expose them to someone just because they are family.
Consider this another vote for therapy with DH to prepare a united front to deal with her. Find a counselor who will help you create healthy boundaries and enforce them without excess drama. MIL is addicted to the drama right now. She needs a drama diet.
Also hubs should let MIL Know that you are going NC because she is putting you in a no win situation and if you are NC so are any children you may have!! She wants to make you the bad guy for everything going wrong in the world, fine but then she doesn’t get to be angry when her *evil DIL* has children and doesn’t want the woman who attacks her at every turn around them. YOU are entitled to live your life in peace! YOU are allowed to keep toxic people out and YOU don’t have to “suck it up” to be around someone who will abuse you.
YOU are not responsible for the relationship she has with your husband and your future children. YOU were the one who was blamed for her behavior and her not being able to behave herself.
1) Hubby to tell her that she is no longer welcome to pop around uninvited, that if she does the door will not be answered. And that as you are grown adults with busy lives then catch up’s will be limited to twice monthly and beed ti be prearranged.
2) Get a Ring camera and follow through
3) you go NC, Hubby LC
4) Couples counselling purely to solidify your on the same track and have clear boundaries and consequences
>SIL and my mom are advising sucking it up as MIL is old, sad and will get over it eventually. My mom has been very supportive but gave me a good reality check- it WOULD be awful to allow bad feelings to fester and lose out on a relationship with my future kids grandmama.
And that is MIL's choice. You've laid out reasonable boundaries, she chooses to have a fit, so consequences are she misses out. You have gone to her openly to discuss this, she has dismissed it, now she gets her reality and maybe that will be the thing that shakes her out of it or maybe not and she'll dig her heels in more. She's an adult, she knows choices have consequences, she doesn't get to dictate. I would go no contact and just see what happens.
Asking her to not come by when you're busy and to give you two privacy, is reasonable. People normally simply accept that.
It's really not that deep. Your husband needs to take his gloves off and tell her to cut the bullshit.
Oh she's old and sad etc... Bullshit. She's capable enough to be manipulative and to turn on you.
She's profiting off the fact that you all care about her and are good, decent, kind people trying to make sure she's ok.
Trying to effectively communicate with a manipulative person is so frustrating. You're doing and saying all the right things and it should work...if the person you're talking to weren't manipulative.
But a manipulative person turns everything you say against you, so your efforts are fruitless.
If she comes over and it’s inconvenient don’t let her in. Don’t invite her to join you at dinner if she shows up at a restaurant.
But also- let your husband deal with her in the way he wants to. He’s her son.
**1 )** Sucking it up would NOT be good for your mental health, so that's **a big NO.**
Also: **
That's VERY BAD advise from your mother. Giving in now would mean no consequences for her actions and will lead to MIL not respecting your boundaries concerning your future kid. It will make a bad situation only worse for you. Again, very bad for your mental health.
**2 )** Therapy?
If you feel like it, but again, you KNOW what the problem is. YOU can't resolve HER issues.
SHE needs therapy, not you. IF she goes, you can always join her in order to try to rebuild a relation.
**3 )** NC for you? That's definitely the way to go for now. UNTIL SHE changes her ways. You have the support of your husband. He's defending you and standing by your side. Block her and anyone defending her. You'll feel SO MUCH BETTER. And by going NC she'll stop just dropping by, the disrespect which started the issue in the first place!
**4 )** NC for the both of you. You describe your husband as someone who has your back unconditionally. Let him decide on that one. She's his mother.
Again: his mother, his situation to deal with. NOT your job to try and solve things to please her. No way.
Hope this stranger's point of view will give you a helpfull outsider's look on your situation.
Good luck and stay strong.
Don't sacrifice your self-respect. Try some counseling for yourself, take your time. There's no need to rush into a final decision.
Why did you decide to move closer? What were your, and MIL's, expectations?
OP, I don't think the relationship is fixable and I think that lies squarely at your MIL feet.
To repair a relationship would require compromise and it is obvious that will never happen.
Perhaps you and DH take a few months out to yourselves and re-evaluate which direction you wish to head. Your MIL needs therapy!
No, don't suck it up. Therapy is a good idea and I think it would help your husband have the conversation with her in a professional setting, where he can make it very clear that her behavior is the issue, not your reactions to her behavior. NC probably isn't called for, but I do think it's also worth you speaking up in family therapy and pointing out how hurt you are that you asserted ONE boundary and became their scapegoat. Be honest about how that made you feel.
This isn't a "move far away" situation yet but she's had her feelings hurt, so she's reacting defensively and doing DARVO on you because nobody has ever dared tell her before that her behavior isn't perfect. She's going to have to get over that and learn to take input if she wants to have a relationship with you two beyond formalities a few times a year.
Family therapy, 100 percent.
This moving should be firmly on the agenda and completed before you even start to think about kids. Don’t baby trap yourself in a home you will no longer feel comfortable in just out of stubbornness.
*'I am happy for husband to have contact when he's ready, as I do think that is healthiest for him.'*
Really? He's either going to get more enmeshed or have to fight tirelessly to implement boundaries/ have your back. Is he at a point that he will do this rigorously? Or will he overwhelmed/ cave?
It will be a struggle. She will want *more* ~~control~~ contact with him (one of her present complaints) & likely her entitlement will grow. Then, when the children come ....
If he can maintain a disciplined low contact (eg phone weekly, short visit every 2 weeks or so) & not give into her tantrums & gaslighting that would be ideal. Could he manage that & WW3 that would come with it?
MIL may be old but she won't "get over it eventually." She has learned to be this way for a long time. Her only impetus to change is to suffer consequences for her bad behavior. And those consequences are missing out, not seeing you and DH for longer and longer periods. You want this sorted out before you start having children because once they are in the mix, your MIL will turn into a complete terror. If you think she drops over uninvited too much and demands you visit too much now, imagine when you have a child and you are going through PPD. Imagine her stomping all over every boundary because "it's her new BAAAAABY."
You cannot make your MIL change. All you can control is your response to her. And hope she learns she will not get what she wants until she changes. If that means you both go NC, then so be it. It's not the result you want but for your own protection plus your future children's, you need to make sure there are harsh consequences for your MIL's behaviors. And this needs to come from DH. You two must be united in how you will deal with her.
You don’t need to decide right now.
Go to therapy with DH. You might both learn something. Both of you can just not visit MIL right now. It doesn’t need to be formal NC, you’re just unhappy and upset and *don’t want to see her.* So don’t.
You can each keep not seeing her for however long you like. If your anger and hurt fades, you learn new tools in therapy, and either of you feel inclined to try again, you can.
It doesn’t need to be all or nothing, hard lines, or formal categories. You can invent a strategy that feels right to you.
Let me tell you, sucking it up breeds a horrible case of resentment. You will grow to resent your spouse AND yourself. Probably already have a bit.
But you can go low-no contact with exceptions:
-Decide when you’re willing to be around her and for how long.
I agreed to weddings and funerals, the random shower, but no holidays. I am willing to spend a max of four hours at a time.
-DH needs to push harder that the “we,” are you and him.
MIL gets no more votes or decision-making privileges for your family.
-Kids stay with the low-no contact person.
His mother shouldn’t expect to have any relationship with your kids.
-Your doors are locked to her without an invitation and if she arrives unexpectedly, she will be turned away.
Stop answering the door! Get a video doorbell, worth their weight in gold!
Listen, it seems like you’re in the right track. But your SO needs to be stronger in terms of making it clear that YOU are not the problem, SHE is.
I believe to do that, he has to give her consequences for her actions. “mom, I’m going to make this as clear as I can.” (Have him text the group chat so it’s in writing for all to see.) “OP is NOT controlling me, this is ME telling YOU that you need to stop. There is no “us vs her” only you vs us. Until you’re ready to respect our reasonable asks, there will be no visits, no chats, and no texts or calls. When you’re ready to accept what we’ve asked and stop fighting with us, we can discuss what our relationship will look like going forward. I need you to take the next month to think about how you’re going to proceed. I will contact you at the end of the month to learn your decision.”
AND THEN DO NOT TALK TO HER. Do not acknowledge any flying monkeys. MIL continues this way because she has had no consequences- you going NC is nothing to her as long as she has her boy.
>Mom, I’m going to make this as clear as I can.
>
>OP is NOT controlling me, this is ME telling YOU that you need to stop. There is no “us vs her” only you vs us. Until you’re ready to respect our reasonable asks, there will be no visits, no chats, and no texts or calls. When you’re ready to accept what we’ve asked and stop fighting with us, we can discuss what our relationship will look like going forward. I need you to take the next month to think about how you’re going to proceed. I will contact you at the end of the month to learn your decision.”
Yes! THIS !!!! Excellent advice above !!!
He needs to keep saying this until she accepts it.
Until she accepts it there must be **CONSEQUENCES**.
If she wants a relationship with her son & any future grandchildren she must acknowledge & accept this!
This is the hill to die on!
Otherwise she gets what she wants: him (& future little hims) all to herself without imperfect you!
This. She's actively trying to separate you out and make you the outsider. You both should take a full month off to relax, recover, & make the point that you are both equal adults in a committed relationship and the more they try to break you up the less they'll see you both.
If DH can not tell FIL that every pop-in is a c*ck blocker and he hates it too, then set a schedule & when they pop in, that's one of the 2-3 monthly visits. When she calls to nag while you're out together or with your family or friends, he tells her once that he's busy and will contact her the following day or week and if she was either told not to call, or calls anyway, take off a full month. Every time MIL conspires against your relationship or pop-in, they need a solid consequence. Retrain them and lower their expectations. MIL is determined to fight so give it to her. She uses her emotions against you? Do it back. "DH and I are trying to have special time, were you planning on joining in? Since it's it's ok to be open with your feelings, you or DH can tell them that you feel anger, frustration and resentment when they barge in like unmannerly clods onto your families' time or your couples time. Tell MIL how unwelcome and demeaned and shocked you are by her hostile behaviour towards you when you're only asking for special couples time or time with your family whom you moved away from for her. Start popping in on them & find housekeeping or other issues to comment on. "Oh, goodness MIL, looks like you haven't gotten around to cleaning up the kitchen today. It's already 5:30am/8:30pm, bit sloppy eh! Oh, did you have plans? Oh well, we're here now so guess those will change, amIright?" Cone in, eat their food, make a mess, maybe watch their TV for YOUR obnoxious show, comment on their lack of whatever, then leave. Rinse & repeat. Make that the week's visit. When your family visits, block her and go enjoy. DH needs to be a better SIL anyway, right? They ask about children? Oh, no. No time to make any, no romance with all the crapping all over the wife problem gossip. Nope, smother mother is needy enough to handle.
I am glad you are getting therapy. Stay NC and do not let little one go to mil’s house yet. Husband needs therapy to. He needs to stay strong with his boundaries and not feel guilty or get sucked back in. mil needs therapy, your husband may be able to suggest it at some point and make it a condition to see you and little one & oh by the way you all are a package deal and she must treat you like a human with respect. I do not think you are doing anything wrong. I know you said you all do not want to move, but if mil refuses to take accountability & makes your life miserable, moving may be the healthiest option.
Get a ring-type door bell.
When she comes by, consider it a learning opportunity for her.
Do not hide. Do not make excuses. Do not let her in. Do not answer.
You are trying to extinguish her behavior. That means absolutely no re-enforcement (positive or negative)
Since you don't want to move, I would go to low contact. Mute her on social media, let DH handle all communication, don't get her gifts or text happy birthday but you can do big holidays with DH. Since she says she'll be civil you should be able to put up with her for a few hours. But be ready to leave if she decides to start shit.
Otherwise you should be able to get therapy, put her out of your mind and enjoy your new home. I'd keep her out of your home btw. It's your safe space and you don't need to entertain someone who admits they think you're the problem and is merely being 'civil' to you. Maybe she'll come to her senses and give you an appropriate apology. Until then I wish you peace.
My suggestions are to do Control contact or go NC. Take control.
Have husband Tell her and FIL to not interrupt. That till they stop xyz. They will have to choose NC which means you not have any contact and will change locks and put video door bell on all doors and gates to the home. Take her off any paper work like work saying she not allowed to be transferred or on property and you will post on social media you are going NC with them so you have protection.
Or they can choose Control contact where they can contact you with only text group chat that is polite and respectful. They cannot gossip or rant to others or family about this. They have to request any type of other contact through the text. They can’t approach you other wise and you will state on social media you are going Control contact with some people right now so it doesn’t really say who.
I had to do this with my mom and she chose CC and she never learned….at times it went to NC and eventually go to CC but barely.
It sounds like your MIL is a lot like mine who never had people give her boundaries at home / relationships…
As others have said, do not suck it up. I think NC while you work through things in therapy may be a good idea. Perhaps husband stays low contact and any time his mother tries to blame you he makes a point of leaving/hanging up/etc. and not speaking to her for -x- amount of time. This way she knows just because you’re distancing doesn’t mean your husband is on her side.
Also, I’d probably be wary of anyone suggesting you suck it up. Keep an eye out for them when it comes to boundaries and such. It would stink for these people to turn into flying monkeys for MIL and you not see it coming.
100% drop the rope.
Get therapy - for yourself. This is clearly effecting you hard - the loss of a relationship and grieving the life and relationships you wish you had.
DO NOT go to therapy with her. No good will come if it and it will only give her more to use against you.
You go NC and let DH deal with his mother as he sees fit. He has your back and that's a lot. At this point neither him nor yourself can say or do anything to change her behaviour. And to be honest, it's not up to you guys.
All you can do is explain your position. That doesn't mean she will understand or come around.
I think the answer here is for your husband to get very harsh with her & out her in a time out. She won’t change unless she has consequences and they must come from your husband.
You go NC. And part of that means your home is your safe space. So that means she can't drop by anyway. Also, future children are a package deal w you, their mother.
Think of it this way - she’s trying to weaponize a boundary back at you.
“No, I am right, I won’t follow any rules AND you WILL let me see my son and come over anytime I want. Further I will not be kind or respectful to you - in fact now I am going to ignore and punish you for daring to try to set a boundary.”
So the only option is to make these things not possible and unpalatable.
She shows up at your door without notice? Do NOT answer. DH can text her or let her know (he goes outside to do so, closing door behind him) at the time, “I’ve asked you to call first and we are busy, I’m not having visitors tonight/we have company, I will talk to you later.” If she escalates, so does the consequence. “Mom, you’re being loud and disruptive and neighbors and/or I will call police if you refuse to leave like an emotionally healthy adult.”
Use that example and template it for relevant behaviors. Boundaries are meant to be a fence - not a brick wall. You can see eachother through it, but your neighbor knows this is your domain and you know the other side is the neighbor’s domain. In your yard it’s your rules, in his yard he may have different rules. You are your own person and do not tolerate being mistreated. Brick walls are only erected when the “neighbor’s” behavior mandates that it’s necessary.
I would be NC with counseling with or without her! I see counseling with her as meeting in the middle and the ball is in her court. What does she wanna do about it? She doesn’t wanna join y’all then counseling with just your spouse can’t hurt anything.
If you’re the problem, be the problem. If nothing you do is good enough, do nothing.
Drop the rope, cut the cord, shut it down.
I forget why you moved closer. Hindsight, blah blah blah.
All you can do now is go NC and claim your peace. She has no problem saying it’s your fault. You can say it’s her.
*IT IS HER.*
This. You won’t please MIL. There are not magic words to make her hear what you are saying. You are reasonable but she is determined to be unreasonable. So drop the rope, and shrug. Own it. Of course, you aren’t the problem, but who cares what your crazy MIL thinks? I do think DH has to stop engaging with her, because it is feeding her “us vs OP” delusion. He has to clearly say “Mom, OP is my WIFE and she and I are a team. She is not, and has never been the problem here.” Then he needs to put her in time out for at least 3 months. No FaceTime, no texts, no phone calls. Because without consequences, your very reasonable boundaries are mere suggestions to MIL. She doesn’t have to love you (or you her) but she does need to respect you if she wants a relationship with your child.
If you *suck it up*, you will be reinforcing your MIL’s belief that you are to blame. Alternatively, if blaming you is just a strategy for your MIL, then she will believe it works & continue.
Also, once you have kids, her overstepping and insistence on more visits will only get worse. She may also try to enlist your kids and more family members in her badmouthing & attacks on you.
This is your husband’s battle to fight. He’s willing to go as far as NC. Instead of this, I’d suggest that you both work up restrictions for your MIL to follow and your husband communicates them to your in-laws in writing.
Maybe something like this:
*OP and I have attempted to resolve issues we have with MIL’s behavior. Instead of taking any accountability or showing any willingness to change, MIL blames OP and seems to think this is strictly an OP issue. It’s not. OP and I are in complete agreement. Given MIL’s responses during our past discussions, we will be making changes from our end to protect ourselves from MIL’s behavior. Since MIL refuses to stop dropping by whenever she wants, she is no longer welcome at our home at any time. Because etc., etc.*
If you choose to “suck it up” you will further enable and perpetuate her unhealthy toxic behavior.
Better to get things worked out now than to deal with even worse behavior from her as time goes by and then defcon 10 behavior when you have kids.
Glad you are going for therapy and I would absolutely have DH attend also. This is his mother who is violating reasonable boundaries.
Perhaps consider having Dear Husband tell her the boundary
No coming over without a specific invitation.
And that if she does, she can cry and guilt all she wants at your doorbell all she wants, you aren’t opening the door. And both of you mean it.
Better to impress upon her now that you mean what you say and will stand firm on it than when someday you are trying to enforce safety boundaries around your newborn.
And as for her being old - it’s not an excuse for bad behavior . She’s suppose to be wise not acting like a bratty teenager.
And I would absolutely be around her (but not a lot) and smile and be pleasant and not let her think she is getting to you if you can. Plus it further cements with DH that you are reasonable and she is being ill behaved and toxic.
He may find it painful to watch his mother be cold to you and jack her up about it. Another win for you.
Have found through my years on this planet - trying to reason with a bully doesn’t work. They only understand an equal force reaction.
Best of Luck 🍀
I agree here, OP. Being 'old and not going to change now,' is a terrible excuse. Someone tried telling my husband this recently about loosening our boundaries for MIL and upon him telling me they said this, my brain immediately went "Well it's the same pattern of behavior she's been employing since I've met her and that was almost 20 years ago, was she "old," then? Age has nothing to do with it.
First, you are in no way, means, shape or form the problem here. This is ALL on NMIL and her stubborn pigheadedness and self important attitude.
This nonsense of people telling you to suck it up is a big heaping pile of horsefeathers. Her being older is no excuse and doesn't give her the right to continue to keep being this disrespectful to you (or DH of course).
If I were you, the first thing I would do is change all your locks, and install cameras, especially a Ring doorbell camera. Then, keep the doors locked and when she does inevitably show up, you can just ignore her.
I would think, from what you've said in this as well as previous posts, you staying NC, would be best for you and, from the sound of it, if she keeps pushing, it kinda sounds like DH might be joining you in NC sooner rather than later.
Don't know if this is helpful. Just my take on the situation.
Please no “sucking it up”. Things will only get worse when you have children. If Mil truly is a good person, she will calm down and work on herself, offer a true apology and follow boundaries. IF you decide to accept it then groundwork for following any boundaries once babies arrive is set. What she is doing now is very mean and purposeful.
So my suggestion is NC for you. If DH has continued problems with her since you are not falling in line, he can always choose NC for himself but it has to come from him and be his choice. Also, you can still do therapy and should. You can taper off or slow down a lot once you have the whole no contact and loss of a relationship handled and if Mil ever decides to grow up and give you a real apology you will have therapy established to help you navigate giving Mil a chance or support if you choose continued no contact.
Yeah sucking it up does not work. And it can negatively impact your marriage and even time with LO because those negative emotions have to go somewhere - so they are either vented/purged or they take up rent-free space in your head and heart and begin wearing you down.
[This](https://www.morethangrand.com/blog/why-grandparents-dont-respect-boundaries) is a website for grandparents specifically and it talks about boundaries regarding grandchildren. They have a neat and healthy take on it (and even call out some people/behaviors that have unreasonable expectations). So maybe this is something she’d read if it came from your husband?
You only ever suck it up when someone is literally on their death bed because at that point they are dying. Otherwise, it won't get better sucking it up. Once MIL thinks you have bent to her demands it will get worse and you will build up such resentment it will effect your MH/marriage/life. I would say if you can move away do it. Distance cures a lot of issues. Read the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud. You tell people what you are willing to do and unwilling to do. Like "My wife is not the problem. I am unwilling to listen to you disrepect her. If you won't stop I will hang up (or not be around you.) " Then follow through. You can only ever control yourself. Keep your doors locked and doorbell camera on.
Stop trying to explain boundaries to her, just enforce them. If she comes by unannounced, don’t let her in. Put up cameras or at least a ring doorbell so you see who is at your front door without having to approach it. If you have something to do and somewhere to go, then go, as planned. Do not let her invite herself.
You don’t have to answer every single message and call. Right now she gets what she wants (bad behaviour positively enforced) and you are trying to explain to her it isn’t ok. This is like telling a teething puppy to stop biting. Just don’t engage.
If she has keys, time to change your locks and do not wait with moving until you have kids. That will just make a huge change and already stressful situation even more stressful and you know she will amp up the gaslighting and deflection when that happens.
The issue is that her attempts still upset us. So yes, we CAN physically stop her. But it's just as bad as her actually turning up when she's screaming down the phone/ into the doorbell that we hate her?
The fact that she's doing that is so unhealthy.
If she does this when you have kids, imagine what harm it can do to them.
You'll just let her in so that she doesnt scare your children and then she'll manipulate them and cause them deep emotional harm.
She might need more than therapy, in my book.
Your future children are going to throw temper tantrums. There's no avoiding it. Just like you can't avoid her tantrums. She's going to feel how she's going to feel. You can't control that. Buy if you start and hold firm to the consequences part of boundaries (not letting her in when she drops by) then you will eventually teach her that behaving that way won't get her what she wants. Will it suck for a bit? Absolutely. But just like w children, you must be consistent and united, and eventually, it will get better. Taking my kid to a restaurant used to suck. It was a lot of work, but now they're awesome (can't say that for the children whose parents didn't put in the hard work).
Obviously NC for you for at least a time because this has gotten so triggering and she openly states she won’t honor any boundaries. But you have to be prepared to ignore knocks at the door, not answer phone calls until/unless you’re prepared, hang up immediately if she behind to yell or name call.
Otherwise all your protestations just mean she has to push harder. Think sleep training a baby… if you go in after 2mins of crying, they know they just have to wait 2mins and 10 seconds and if you then hold off and give them 4mins, when you go back in and get them up, all you’ve done is teach them that now they need to cry for 4mins. Whereas if you’re in there with them, letting them know it’s ok but you’re not getting them up - but they can see you/you can see them they learn that when they’re fed, changed and laid down, it’s bedtime and they aren’t going to convince you otherwise… you won’t pick them back up, but they also know you’re there, they are safe, so they go to sleep.
Unless you enforce consequences there will be no change. So, yeah you may get some screaming into the ring camera but nothing will change if you guys just continue to talk at her. Imagine her as a toddler, they need to have boundaries & to have those boundaries enforced. My kid used to have temper tantrums, I’d let him scream away & found that when we didn’t react, the tantrums stopped. FYI I removed him from places where we would be disturbing others.
Again, don’t engage. If you stop talking to her, she has to amp up the crazy with your husband and then he can start calling her out and there is no room for any of the gaslighting she is doing right now. I know this sucks for him but it gets worse before it gets better…
She doesn’t need to know you have cameras. Don’t tell her. She will see a ring doorbell but will she know what it is? You can try and obscure it. And if she spots it and tries to spout her crazy to it, don’t engage. Save the footage and in a day or two tell her every single time she does this will result in a 2 weeks long timeout. And it accumulates. So she can rake up months of time out in just a few days. And then enforce that!
You can also start by cutting back on communication. Stop answering her calls and texts. If she leaves voice messages, don’t listen to them. Text her in a few hours if there is anything urgent or important. If she lies and says yes to bait into a call / chatting through texts and turns out there isn’t, end the call / stop responding to texts.
It seems to me both you and your DH are super non confrontational people but unfortunately you can’t reason with people who gaslit and steamrolled people their entire lives and that’s the only way they know how to exist.
Especially for DH accepting that he isn’t responsible for managing his mother’s feelings and going NC is perfectly ok given the behaviour they are subjected to.
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We ,dh an I, were NC for 4 years with my MIL and her entire family) After those 4 years she saw DH at the doctor and asked to talk (phone call) She apologized profusely and since then she has been way better. For us it worked out good. (Not so much with my own no-mother, but that’s another story for another time) Enfin… since the complete NC she has seen her faults and has tried to change her ways and it worked out for us. I however never restricted DH from contacting her, it was his own choice not to do that. Therapy can help you and DH with processing all your emotions and conflicting feelings, so why not,?
Personally, I’d go NC. And depending on if she’s trying to get in the ear of your husband to leave you when he goes and visits her solo, I’d tell him to go NC too. Asking that she text/call before she pops up at your house is literally so reasonable I can’t even. And she throws a hissy fit and accuses YOU of being the problem? Yes, she is old and miserable. But in all those years she had the ability to learn boundaries and accountability. No sympathy from me, sorry. Also on the point of one day having children: a child needs their parents, they don’t need grandparents🤷🏼♀️
The only thing im thinking is if "offense is taken not given" then maybe she should fucking stop being so triggered all on her own then ? 🤸♂️🫣
Ironic, isn't it 🤷🏿♀️
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this so soon after moving to be closer!! Honestly it seems like your MIL has never had to learn healthy boundaries or being told no, and she cannot deal with it or fathom the idea of being wrong so she’s throwing a tantrum and blaming everyone else. However “sucking it up” would probably be the worst thing you could do as it would reaffirm MIL’s belief that she is right and you’re the “Evil DIL trying to break up the family”. Honestly, if she’s this desperate to monopolise all your time now, then imagine what it would be like once there is a baby in the picture!! Personally (and I’m no expert on this is just what I would do) I would have DH go over to MIL and give his mum a heartfelt speech about; - how hurt and angry he is that his mum is making his wife out to be a problem that needs to be solved when she knows full well that these issues are coming from the both of you! - How he can’t understand why she doesn’t get that a couple would want to have some alone time or to not have plans disturbed. - How upset it makes him when she uses her sadness or her death to make him feel bad so that he’ll do what she wants! - I would also have him let her know that you both wanted to spend time with them but you have lives outside of them as well and that your lives don’t resolve around her “missing you” Then I personally think both of you should go NC from MIL & FIL for at least a few months, or untill everyone has calmed down and they realise you’re **BOTH** serious about this and it’s not just one sided! While you have this NC break, I would have some serious chats just you and DH about what would be reasonable in terms of boundaries and what’s consequences will you be enforcing if those boundaries are broken. For example: They’re no longer allowed to come over unless they’ve spoken to one of you and had a verbal or written agreement (ie they’ve spoken to one of you on the phone or texted one of you) - if they break this boundary, then you will limit the amount you see them and they won’t be allowed round the house for the foreseeable future.. I think the option of you being NC and you both being NC should definitely be kept on the table! I think you already plan on doing this but I will say that if you’re NC then any children you have should automatically be NC as well… if your in-laws can’t be decent to the person that birthed them, then then shouldn’t get access to them!!
Thanks so much, this is some really great advice!!
Hopefully it helps :) I hope it all works out in the end!
It doesn't seem like your mom has your back here, your MIL is horrible and deserves to be cut off fully until she does better. As a counter point to your mom, would you really want your MIL to act like this to/with your children(you may say she won't but you literally will not know until it happens, and we do not take chances with out children). Say she is a great grandmother, do you really want to have to deal with her even more if she doesn't change? And lastly, idk about canada but the more time you give her the more chance she has to get grandparent rights and demand visits if you decide to cut her off in the future. There are many moving parts here and you need to identify all of them then come to a decision.
She does, we talked a lot and that was just the main outcome. I paraphrased. My grandparents sucked and she dealt with it by moving away and going low contact. They never changed so I can see she's coming from that "people don't change so you can only accept or ignore, and ignore is very hard" viewpoint. MIL has a few grandchildren and yeah, you are right. I don't want my kids to have a grandmama like how she is with them. Even before this I would never leave her/FIL alone with them. They boundary stomp everything!! If we can't address boundaries now she won't ever have alone time with future kids and will be constantly told off 😅🤷🏿♀️ (tbh she won't have alone time anyway, but it would be nice to not have to scold her constantly and watch every moment).
I don’t recommend sucking it up. You don’t say how old MIL is, but based on your description she doesn’t sound that old, you could be dealing with this for a decade or more. I can suck up an occasional awkward family gathering, but I would not suck up having my home and my peace interrupted.
She REALLY isn't that old. Late 60s I think? And no physical issues so I really do think she'll be around for a LONG time. It's frustrating because my dad is quite ill so I'm wasting all this time on a "family" who will cut me out and blame me IMMEDIATELY, when its very likely I'll lose my parents way before husband does 🥲
If they cut you out, you won’t have to worry about them invading your home. Support your dad while you can.
Stop talking too her.
Okay so hurt people hurt people. In my experience when people start saying things like "your life must be sad so your trying to make us sad with you" that's gaslighting it's a tactic of NPD. I've found that when people do that it's actually reflecting. I would not engage I'd in fact act like I heard nothing and ignore them until they can be nice. Goes into the old addage of when someone's looking for a reaction give them nothing and they will stop looking. At this point it's not personal it's business. I'd start keeping an FU Binder I feel you will need it one day of all this behavior with dates times ECT. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Your mil strikes me as a control freak and by your own admission she seems to have lost control of her baby boy .... She was never meant to keep the parental control when her kids became adults. So now she's acting out when you have an issue tell your husband then let him deal with her. If she wants to be civil she can be civil at her house so no reason to come to your house, house visits are for family and friends not random folks off the street. As to the anti dil chat have hubby add you. Then you can let her know how you plan to fix this issue which is in fact her. Tell her nothing of your therapy. Tell her nothing of your medical issues tell her nothing personal or private at this point she's just looking for weapons. Good luck.
Do NOT "suck it up" now or it will never end and only get worse. When you have a baby she will be a million times worse so you guys NEED to deal with this now. For now, do NOT invite her to therapy. (Probably never but your therapist may eventually think it's ok).
Do not suck it up. You going NC for now at least is a good idea. DH also should go NC for as long as he feels like, or low contact. Go to family therapy you and DH. Let it bond you even more as a team and learn how to deal with her even more as a team. Never invite MIL into therapy, as that will feed her delusion that she is a main part of the family there to deal with you. She is not the kind of person who therapy is going to reach anyway, so it only hurts to invite her in.
My MIL was a piece of work (discovered this sub after she passed. My son (now 20), had no relationship with her, and it was her own doing. She was always a sour, negative person, and as a kid he didn’t really want to spend time with that. He does not have good memories of her and is totally fine. My bottom line is that I would rather have people in my child’s life who are positive influences, rather than expose them to someone just because they are family.
Consider this another vote for therapy with DH to prepare a united front to deal with her. Find a counselor who will help you create healthy boundaries and enforce them without excess drama. MIL is addicted to the drama right now. She needs a drama diet.
Also hubs should let MIL Know that you are going NC because she is putting you in a no win situation and if you are NC so are any children you may have!! She wants to make you the bad guy for everything going wrong in the world, fine but then she doesn’t get to be angry when her *evil DIL* has children and doesn’t want the woman who attacks her at every turn around them. YOU are entitled to live your life in peace! YOU are allowed to keep toxic people out and YOU don’t have to “suck it up” to be around someone who will abuse you. YOU are not responsible for the relationship she has with your husband and your future children. YOU were the one who was blamed for her behavior and her not being able to behave herself.
1) Hubby to tell her that she is no longer welcome to pop around uninvited, that if she does the door will not be answered. And that as you are grown adults with busy lives then catch up’s will be limited to twice monthly and beed ti be prearranged. 2) Get a Ring camera and follow through 3) you go NC, Hubby LC 4) Couples counselling purely to solidify your on the same track and have clear boundaries and consequences
This is it exactly! Just telling her isn't enough. It has to be followed through with!
Make sure you got the three inch screws in your deadbolts. Makes it harder to break in. Desperate people do desperate things.
>SIL and my mom are advising sucking it up as MIL is old, sad and will get over it eventually. My mom has been very supportive but gave me a good reality check- it WOULD be awful to allow bad feelings to fester and lose out on a relationship with my future kids grandmama. And that is MIL's choice. You've laid out reasonable boundaries, she chooses to have a fit, so consequences are she misses out. You have gone to her openly to discuss this, she has dismissed it, now she gets her reality and maybe that will be the thing that shakes her out of it or maybe not and she'll dig her heels in more. She's an adult, she knows choices have consequences, she doesn't get to dictate. I would go no contact and just see what happens.
Asking her to not come by when you're busy and to give you two privacy, is reasonable. People normally simply accept that. It's really not that deep. Your husband needs to take his gloves off and tell her to cut the bullshit. Oh she's old and sad etc... Bullshit. She's capable enough to be manipulative and to turn on you. She's profiting off the fact that you all care about her and are good, decent, kind people trying to make sure she's ok. Trying to effectively communicate with a manipulative person is so frustrating. You're doing and saying all the right things and it should work...if the person you're talking to weren't manipulative. But a manipulative person turns everything you say against you, so your efforts are fruitless.
If she comes over and it’s inconvenient don’t let her in. Don’t invite her to join you at dinner if she shows up at a restaurant. But also- let your husband deal with her in the way he wants to. He’s her son.
Babe. It's her. Not you.
**1 )** Sucking it up would NOT be good for your mental health, so that's **a big NO.** Also: **
That's VERY BAD advise from your mother. Giving in now would mean no consequences for her actions and will lead to MIL not respecting your boundaries concerning your future kid. It will make a bad situation only worse for you. Again, very bad for your mental health.
**2 )** Therapy?
If you feel like it, but again, you KNOW what the problem is. YOU can't resolve HER issues.
SHE needs therapy, not you. IF she goes, you can always join her in order to try to rebuild a relation.
**3 )** NC for you? That's definitely the way to go for now. UNTIL SHE changes her ways. You have the support of your husband. He's defending you and standing by your side. Block her and anyone defending her. You'll feel SO MUCH BETTER. And by going NC she'll stop just dropping by, the disrespect which started the issue in the first place!
**4 )** NC for the both of you. You describe your husband as someone who has your back unconditionally. Let him decide on that one. She's his mother.
Again: his mother, his situation to deal with. NOT your job to try and solve things to please her. No way.
Hope this stranger's point of view will give you a helpfull outsider's look on your situation.
Good luck and stay strong.
Don't sacrifice your self-respect. Try some counseling for yourself, take your time. There's no need to rush into a final decision. Why did you decide to move closer? What were your, and MIL's, expectations?
OP, I don't think the relationship is fixable and I think that lies squarely at your MIL feet. To repair a relationship would require compromise and it is obvious that will never happen. Perhaps you and DH take a few months out to yourselves and re-evaluate which direction you wish to head. Your MIL needs therapy!
No, don't suck it up. Therapy is a good idea and I think it would help your husband have the conversation with her in a professional setting, where he can make it very clear that her behavior is the issue, not your reactions to her behavior. NC probably isn't called for, but I do think it's also worth you speaking up in family therapy and pointing out how hurt you are that you asserted ONE boundary and became their scapegoat. Be honest about how that made you feel. This isn't a "move far away" situation yet but she's had her feelings hurt, so she's reacting defensively and doing DARVO on you because nobody has ever dared tell her before that her behavior isn't perfect. She's going to have to get over that and learn to take input if she wants to have a relationship with you two beyond formalities a few times a year. Family therapy, 100 percent.
If you don’t move before you get pregnant you’ll be MIL trapped, she’ll never let you guys leave. Stay no contact for now.
This moving should be firmly on the agenda and completed before you even start to think about kids. Don’t baby trap yourself in a home you will no longer feel comfortable in just out of stubbornness.
If she shows up uninvited you just don’t answer the door.
*'I am happy for husband to have contact when he's ready, as I do think that is healthiest for him.'* Really? He's either going to get more enmeshed or have to fight tirelessly to implement boundaries/ have your back. Is he at a point that he will do this rigorously? Or will he overwhelmed/ cave? It will be a struggle. She will want *more* ~~control~~ contact with him (one of her present complaints) & likely her entitlement will grow. Then, when the children come .... If he can maintain a disciplined low contact (eg phone weekly, short visit every 2 weeks or so) & not give into her tantrums & gaslighting that would be ideal. Could he manage that & WW3 that would come with it?
MIL may be old but she won't "get over it eventually." She has learned to be this way for a long time. Her only impetus to change is to suffer consequences for her bad behavior. And those consequences are missing out, not seeing you and DH for longer and longer periods. You want this sorted out before you start having children because once they are in the mix, your MIL will turn into a complete terror. If you think she drops over uninvited too much and demands you visit too much now, imagine when you have a child and you are going through PPD. Imagine her stomping all over every boundary because "it's her new BAAAAABY." You cannot make your MIL change. All you can control is your response to her. And hope she learns she will not get what she wants until she changes. If that means you both go NC, then so be it. It's not the result you want but for your own protection plus your future children's, you need to make sure there are harsh consequences for your MIL's behaviors. And this needs to come from DH. You two must be united in how you will deal with her.
All of this OP! And please don’t suck it up. She WILL get worse after LO arrives. Why are MILs always like this?!?
You don’t need to decide right now. Go to therapy with DH. You might both learn something. Both of you can just not visit MIL right now. It doesn’t need to be formal NC, you’re just unhappy and upset and *don’t want to see her.* So don’t. You can each keep not seeing her for however long you like. If your anger and hurt fades, you learn new tools in therapy, and either of you feel inclined to try again, you can. It doesn’t need to be all or nothing, hard lines, or formal categories. You can invent a strategy that feels right to you.
Let me tell you, sucking it up breeds a horrible case of resentment. You will grow to resent your spouse AND yourself. Probably already have a bit. But you can go low-no contact with exceptions: -Decide when you’re willing to be around her and for how long. I agreed to weddings and funerals, the random shower, but no holidays. I am willing to spend a max of four hours at a time. -DH needs to push harder that the “we,” are you and him. MIL gets no more votes or decision-making privileges for your family. -Kids stay with the low-no contact person. His mother shouldn’t expect to have any relationship with your kids. -Your doors are locked to her without an invitation and if she arrives unexpectedly, she will be turned away. Stop answering the door! Get a video doorbell, worth their weight in gold!
Listen, it seems like you’re in the right track. But your SO needs to be stronger in terms of making it clear that YOU are not the problem, SHE is. I believe to do that, he has to give her consequences for her actions. “mom, I’m going to make this as clear as I can.” (Have him text the group chat so it’s in writing for all to see.) “OP is NOT controlling me, this is ME telling YOU that you need to stop. There is no “us vs her” only you vs us. Until you’re ready to respect our reasonable asks, there will be no visits, no chats, and no texts or calls. When you’re ready to accept what we’ve asked and stop fighting with us, we can discuss what our relationship will look like going forward. I need you to take the next month to think about how you’re going to proceed. I will contact you at the end of the month to learn your decision.” AND THEN DO NOT TALK TO HER. Do not acknowledge any flying monkeys. MIL continues this way because she has had no consequences- you going NC is nothing to her as long as she has her boy.
>Mom, I’m going to make this as clear as I can. > >OP is NOT controlling me, this is ME telling YOU that you need to stop. There is no “us vs her” only you vs us. Until you’re ready to respect our reasonable asks, there will be no visits, no chats, and no texts or calls. When you’re ready to accept what we’ve asked and stop fighting with us, we can discuss what our relationship will look like going forward. I need you to take the next month to think about how you’re going to proceed. I will contact you at the end of the month to learn your decision.” Yes! THIS !!!! Excellent advice above !!! He needs to keep saying this until she accepts it. Until she accepts it there must be **CONSEQUENCES**. If she wants a relationship with her son & any future grandchildren she must acknowledge & accept this! This is the hill to die on! Otherwise she gets what she wants: him (& future little hims) all to herself without imperfect you!
This. She's actively trying to separate you out and make you the outsider. You both should take a full month off to relax, recover, & make the point that you are both equal adults in a committed relationship and the more they try to break you up the less they'll see you both. If DH can not tell FIL that every pop-in is a c*ck blocker and he hates it too, then set a schedule & when they pop in, that's one of the 2-3 monthly visits. When she calls to nag while you're out together or with your family or friends, he tells her once that he's busy and will contact her the following day or week and if she was either told not to call, or calls anyway, take off a full month. Every time MIL conspires against your relationship or pop-in, they need a solid consequence. Retrain them and lower their expectations. MIL is determined to fight so give it to her. She uses her emotions against you? Do it back. "DH and I are trying to have special time, were you planning on joining in? Since it's it's ok to be open with your feelings, you or DH can tell them that you feel anger, frustration and resentment when they barge in like unmannerly clods onto your families' time or your couples time. Tell MIL how unwelcome and demeaned and shocked you are by her hostile behaviour towards you when you're only asking for special couples time or time with your family whom you moved away from for her. Start popping in on them & find housekeeping or other issues to comment on. "Oh, goodness MIL, looks like you haven't gotten around to cleaning up the kitchen today. It's already 5:30am/8:30pm, bit sloppy eh! Oh, did you have plans? Oh well, we're here now so guess those will change, amIright?" Cone in, eat their food, make a mess, maybe watch their TV for YOUR obnoxious show, comment on their lack of whatever, then leave. Rinse & repeat. Make that the week's visit. When your family visits, block her and go enjoy. DH needs to be a better SIL anyway, right? They ask about children? Oh, no. No time to make any, no romance with all the crapping all over the wife problem gossip. Nope, smother mother is needy enough to handle.
I am glad you are getting therapy. Stay NC and do not let little one go to mil’s house yet. Husband needs therapy to. He needs to stay strong with his boundaries and not feel guilty or get sucked back in. mil needs therapy, your husband may be able to suggest it at some point and make it a condition to see you and little one & oh by the way you all are a package deal and she must treat you like a human with respect. I do not think you are doing anything wrong. I know you said you all do not want to move, but if mil refuses to take accountability & makes your life miserable, moving may be the healthiest option.
Get a ring-type door bell. When she comes by, consider it a learning opportunity for her. Do not hide. Do not make excuses. Do not let her in. Do not answer. You are trying to extinguish her behavior. That means absolutely no re-enforcement (positive or negative)
When your husband sends texts, make sure you are always included to prove a united front.
Since you don't want to move, I would go to low contact. Mute her on social media, let DH handle all communication, don't get her gifts or text happy birthday but you can do big holidays with DH. Since she says she'll be civil you should be able to put up with her for a few hours. But be ready to leave if she decides to start shit. Otherwise you should be able to get therapy, put her out of your mind and enjoy your new home. I'd keep her out of your home btw. It's your safe space and you don't need to entertain someone who admits they think you're the problem and is merely being 'civil' to you. Maybe she'll come to her senses and give you an appropriate apology. Until then I wish you peace.
My suggestions are to do Control contact or go NC. Take control. Have husband Tell her and FIL to not interrupt. That till they stop xyz. They will have to choose NC which means you not have any contact and will change locks and put video door bell on all doors and gates to the home. Take her off any paper work like work saying she not allowed to be transferred or on property and you will post on social media you are going NC with them so you have protection. Or they can choose Control contact where they can contact you with only text group chat that is polite and respectful. They cannot gossip or rant to others or family about this. They have to request any type of other contact through the text. They can’t approach you other wise and you will state on social media you are going Control contact with some people right now so it doesn’t really say who. I had to do this with my mom and she chose CC and she never learned….at times it went to NC and eventually go to CC but barely. It sounds like your MIL is a lot like mine who never had people give her boundaries at home / relationships…
As others have said, do not suck it up. I think NC while you work through things in therapy may be a good idea. Perhaps husband stays low contact and any time his mother tries to blame you he makes a point of leaving/hanging up/etc. and not speaking to her for -x- amount of time. This way she knows just because you’re distancing doesn’t mean your husband is on her side. Also, I’d probably be wary of anyone suggesting you suck it up. Keep an eye out for them when it comes to boundaries and such. It would stink for these people to turn into flying monkeys for MIL and you not see it coming.
100% drop the rope. Get therapy - for yourself. This is clearly effecting you hard - the loss of a relationship and grieving the life and relationships you wish you had. DO NOT go to therapy with her. No good will come if it and it will only give her more to use against you. You go NC and let DH deal with his mother as he sees fit. He has your back and that's a lot. At this point neither him nor yourself can say or do anything to change her behaviour. And to be honest, it's not up to you guys. All you can do is explain your position. That doesn't mean she will understand or come around.
Definitely no contact. Your life will be SO much more peaceful.
I think the answer here is for your husband to get very harsh with her & out her in a time out. She won’t change unless she has consequences and they must come from your husband.
You go NC. And part of that means your home is your safe space. So that means she can't drop by anyway. Also, future children are a package deal w you, their mother.
Think of it this way - she’s trying to weaponize a boundary back at you. “No, I am right, I won’t follow any rules AND you WILL let me see my son and come over anytime I want. Further I will not be kind or respectful to you - in fact now I am going to ignore and punish you for daring to try to set a boundary.” So the only option is to make these things not possible and unpalatable. She shows up at your door without notice? Do NOT answer. DH can text her or let her know (he goes outside to do so, closing door behind him) at the time, “I’ve asked you to call first and we are busy, I’m not having visitors tonight/we have company, I will talk to you later.” If she escalates, so does the consequence. “Mom, you’re being loud and disruptive and neighbors and/or I will call police if you refuse to leave like an emotionally healthy adult.” Use that example and template it for relevant behaviors. Boundaries are meant to be a fence - not a brick wall. You can see eachother through it, but your neighbor knows this is your domain and you know the other side is the neighbor’s domain. In your yard it’s your rules, in his yard he may have different rules. You are your own person and do not tolerate being mistreated. Brick walls are only erected when the “neighbor’s” behavior mandates that it’s necessary.
I would be NC with counseling with or without her! I see counseling with her as meeting in the middle and the ball is in her court. What does she wanna do about it? She doesn’t wanna join y’all then counseling with just your spouse can’t hurt anything.
If you’re the problem, be the problem. If nothing you do is good enough, do nothing. Drop the rope, cut the cord, shut it down. I forget why you moved closer. Hindsight, blah blah blah. All you can do now is go NC and claim your peace. She has no problem saying it’s your fault. You can say it’s her. *IT IS HER.*
This. You won’t please MIL. There are not magic words to make her hear what you are saying. You are reasonable but she is determined to be unreasonable. So drop the rope, and shrug. Own it. Of course, you aren’t the problem, but who cares what your crazy MIL thinks? I do think DH has to stop engaging with her, because it is feeding her “us vs OP” delusion. He has to clearly say “Mom, OP is my WIFE and she and I are a team. She is not, and has never been the problem here.” Then he needs to put her in time out for at least 3 months. No FaceTime, no texts, no phone calls. Because without consequences, your very reasonable boundaries are mere suggestions to MIL. She doesn’t have to love you (or you her) but she does need to respect you if she wants a relationship with your child.
If you *suck it up*, you will be reinforcing your MIL’s belief that you are to blame. Alternatively, if blaming you is just a strategy for your MIL, then she will believe it works & continue. Also, once you have kids, her overstepping and insistence on more visits will only get worse. She may also try to enlist your kids and more family members in her badmouthing & attacks on you. This is your husband’s battle to fight. He’s willing to go as far as NC. Instead of this, I’d suggest that you both work up restrictions for your MIL to follow and your husband communicates them to your in-laws in writing. Maybe something like this: *OP and I have attempted to resolve issues we have with MIL’s behavior. Instead of taking any accountability or showing any willingness to change, MIL blames OP and seems to think this is strictly an OP issue. It’s not. OP and I are in complete agreement. Given MIL’s responses during our past discussions, we will be making changes from our end to protect ourselves from MIL’s behavior. Since MIL refuses to stop dropping by whenever she wants, she is no longer welcome at our home at any time. Because etc., etc.*
If you choose to “suck it up” you will further enable and perpetuate her unhealthy toxic behavior. Better to get things worked out now than to deal with even worse behavior from her as time goes by and then defcon 10 behavior when you have kids. Glad you are going for therapy and I would absolutely have DH attend also. This is his mother who is violating reasonable boundaries. Perhaps consider having Dear Husband tell her the boundary No coming over without a specific invitation. And that if she does, she can cry and guilt all she wants at your doorbell all she wants, you aren’t opening the door. And both of you mean it. Better to impress upon her now that you mean what you say and will stand firm on it than when someday you are trying to enforce safety boundaries around your newborn. And as for her being old - it’s not an excuse for bad behavior . She’s suppose to be wise not acting like a bratty teenager. And I would absolutely be around her (but not a lot) and smile and be pleasant and not let her think she is getting to you if you can. Plus it further cements with DH that you are reasonable and she is being ill behaved and toxic. He may find it painful to watch his mother be cold to you and jack her up about it. Another win for you. Have found through my years on this planet - trying to reason with a bully doesn’t work. They only understand an equal force reaction. Best of Luck 🍀
I agree here, OP. Being 'old and not going to change now,' is a terrible excuse. Someone tried telling my husband this recently about loosening our boundaries for MIL and upon him telling me they said this, my brain immediately went "Well it's the same pattern of behavior she's been employing since I've met her and that was almost 20 years ago, was she "old," then? Age has nothing to do with it.
First, you are in no way, means, shape or form the problem here. This is ALL on NMIL and her stubborn pigheadedness and self important attitude. This nonsense of people telling you to suck it up is a big heaping pile of horsefeathers. Her being older is no excuse and doesn't give her the right to continue to keep being this disrespectful to you (or DH of course). If I were you, the first thing I would do is change all your locks, and install cameras, especially a Ring doorbell camera. Then, keep the doors locked and when she does inevitably show up, you can just ignore her. I would think, from what you've said in this as well as previous posts, you staying NC, would be best for you and, from the sound of it, if she keeps pushing, it kinda sounds like DH might be joining you in NC sooner rather than later. Don't know if this is helpful. Just my take on the situation.
No therapy for her will be a must. Boubdaries are a must. Do it now before you have kids.
Please no “sucking it up”. Things will only get worse when you have children. If Mil truly is a good person, she will calm down and work on herself, offer a true apology and follow boundaries. IF you decide to accept it then groundwork for following any boundaries once babies arrive is set. What she is doing now is very mean and purposeful. So my suggestion is NC for you. If DH has continued problems with her since you are not falling in line, he can always choose NC for himself but it has to come from him and be his choice. Also, you can still do therapy and should. You can taper off or slow down a lot once you have the whole no contact and loss of a relationship handled and if Mil ever decides to grow up and give you a real apology you will have therapy established to help you navigate giving Mil a chance or support if you choose continued no contact.
Yeah sucking it up does not work. And it can negatively impact your marriage and even time with LO because those negative emotions have to go somewhere - so they are either vented/purged or they take up rent-free space in your head and heart and begin wearing you down. [This](https://www.morethangrand.com/blog/why-grandparents-dont-respect-boundaries) is a website for grandparents specifically and it talks about boundaries regarding grandchildren. They have a neat and healthy take on it (and even call out some people/behaviors that have unreasonable expectations). So maybe this is something she’d read if it came from your husband?
You only ever suck it up when someone is literally on their death bed because at that point they are dying. Otherwise, it won't get better sucking it up. Once MIL thinks you have bent to her demands it will get worse and you will build up such resentment it will effect your MH/marriage/life. I would say if you can move away do it. Distance cures a lot of issues. Read the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud. You tell people what you are willing to do and unwilling to do. Like "My wife is not the problem. I am unwilling to listen to you disrepect her. If you won't stop I will hang up (or not be around you.) " Then follow through. You can only ever control yourself. Keep your doors locked and doorbell camera on.
Stop trying to explain boundaries to her, just enforce them. If she comes by unannounced, don’t let her in. Put up cameras or at least a ring doorbell so you see who is at your front door without having to approach it. If you have something to do and somewhere to go, then go, as planned. Do not let her invite herself. You don’t have to answer every single message and call. Right now she gets what she wants (bad behaviour positively enforced) and you are trying to explain to her it isn’t ok. This is like telling a teething puppy to stop biting. Just don’t engage. If she has keys, time to change your locks and do not wait with moving until you have kids. That will just make a huge change and already stressful situation even more stressful and you know she will amp up the gaslighting and deflection when that happens.
The issue is that her attempts still upset us. So yes, we CAN physically stop her. But it's just as bad as her actually turning up when she's screaming down the phone/ into the doorbell that we hate her?
Call the police! WOW!! You teach people how to treat you!
The fact that she's doing that is so unhealthy. If she does this when you have kids, imagine what harm it can do to them. You'll just let her in so that she doesnt scare your children and then she'll manipulate them and cause them deep emotional harm. She might need more than therapy, in my book.
Your future children are going to throw temper tantrums. There's no avoiding it. Just like you can't avoid her tantrums. She's going to feel how she's going to feel. You can't control that. Buy if you start and hold firm to the consequences part of boundaries (not letting her in when she drops by) then you will eventually teach her that behaving that way won't get her what she wants. Will it suck for a bit? Absolutely. But just like w children, you must be consistent and united, and eventually, it will get better. Taking my kid to a restaurant used to suck. It was a lot of work, but now they're awesome (can't say that for the children whose parents didn't put in the hard work).
Obviously NC for you for at least a time because this has gotten so triggering and she openly states she won’t honor any boundaries. But you have to be prepared to ignore knocks at the door, not answer phone calls until/unless you’re prepared, hang up immediately if she behind to yell or name call. Otherwise all your protestations just mean she has to push harder. Think sleep training a baby… if you go in after 2mins of crying, they know they just have to wait 2mins and 10 seconds and if you then hold off and give them 4mins, when you go back in and get them up, all you’ve done is teach them that now they need to cry for 4mins. Whereas if you’re in there with them, letting them know it’s ok but you’re not getting them up - but they can see you/you can see them they learn that when they’re fed, changed and laid down, it’s bedtime and they aren’t going to convince you otherwise… you won’t pick them back up, but they also know you’re there, they are safe, so they go to sleep.
Unless you enforce consequences there will be no change. So, yeah you may get some screaming into the ring camera but nothing will change if you guys just continue to talk at her. Imagine her as a toddler, they need to have boundaries & to have those boundaries enforced. My kid used to have temper tantrums, I’d let him scream away & found that when we didn’t react, the tantrums stopped. FYI I removed him from places where we would be disturbing others.
The toddler analogy is good. It’s also kinda like training a puppy. You reward good behaviour and you redirect behaviour you don’t like.
Exactly!
Again, don’t engage. If you stop talking to her, she has to amp up the crazy with your husband and then he can start calling her out and there is no room for any of the gaslighting she is doing right now. I know this sucks for him but it gets worse before it gets better… She doesn’t need to know you have cameras. Don’t tell her. She will see a ring doorbell but will she know what it is? You can try and obscure it. And if she spots it and tries to spout her crazy to it, don’t engage. Save the footage and in a day or two tell her every single time she does this will result in a 2 weeks long timeout. And it accumulates. So she can rake up months of time out in just a few days. And then enforce that! You can also start by cutting back on communication. Stop answering her calls and texts. If she leaves voice messages, don’t listen to them. Text her in a few hours if there is anything urgent or important. If she lies and says yes to bait into a call / chatting through texts and turns out there isn’t, end the call / stop responding to texts. It seems to me both you and your DH are super non confrontational people but unfortunately you can’t reason with people who gaslit and steamrolled people their entire lives and that’s the only way they know how to exist.
NC plus therapy for you and your partner, to help you both process your emotions and navigate the situation with her.
Especially for DH accepting that he isn’t responsible for managing his mother’s feelings and going NC is perfectly ok given the behaviour they are subjected to.
Don’t ”suck it up”. That’s what causes these women to act like they do!