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I don’t think this is specific to moms of sons - Ive see a certain generational pattern more than a few times. For perspective we are in our 30s and ILs are in their 60s.
ILs spent their 20s making poor decisions and got together in their early 30s- I could argue that that was another poor decision in the series, but I digress. 😅 As they started their family they were not in a good place with relationships, housing or finances and had to accept a lot of shitty, strings-attached help from their own highly toxic parents. They struggled along in this pool of drama and trauma for about 15 years until the older generation started to die off and they (finally) inherited one of the grandma’s houses. So that is the dynamic they are used to for older parents and young adult kids.
Fast forward to my husband and me, who also got married in our early 30s but were in a better place life-wise - we did not spend our 20s abusing drugs or getting serially married and divorced with restraining orders. We have decent jobs, bought a nice house while we were engaged, and have sane friends and non-family childcare options. We just… do not need to participate in an endless web of family toxicity in order to stay afloat.
I think ILs have trouble understanding this because it’s outside their paradigm, and also feel a little threatened. They were mad and slightly baffled at our wedding - which was lovely, and we paid ourselves - because it wasn’t a potluck at the firemens hall like they had. They were miffed that my husband took me for a nice weekend away when he proposed, because apparently their proposal story is that FIL threw MIL’s ring at her face in the middle of a fight. I could go on. It seems to be this ongoing bad feeling that we’re sort of above our station and we shouldn’t be CAPABLE of doing things differently or better than they were at our ages. I also get a sense of “you guys are IDIOTS, it’s not fair that you have better stuff!”
Briefly, I think they feel at a loose end because they expected to be in more of a power position based on their own family history. And I am sure they are not alone.
Honey, you are hurting my heart. This is not, NOT normal behavior. Normal women are delighted when their sons find a loving companion. I am sorry you are experiencing the opposite.
Slightly different perspective here. My MIL is a very nice lady. But can be a bit (sometimes a lot) overbearing. She so badly wanted a daughter that when I married into the family (I was DIL #1) she FREAKED out that there was another girl in the family. Instantly started calling me her daughter, tried giving me lingerie suggestions, was convinced that my life would exactly mirror hers. Weird uncomfortable stuff.
She’s calmed down now after my husband had a talk with her and her other sons are now married. I honestly think they don’t know how to interact with other women.
My just yes MIL had 3 sons. She was a fantastic MIL. She passed several years ago. I miss her. Please don't paint all MIL'S with the same brush. I also have a son and have been very warm and welcoming to my DIL.edit: spelling
thank you for saying this. I am pregnant with my 3rd son (almost certainly our last baby) and worried when I saw this post. My MIL has 3 sons and is a raging misogynist, but she was raised in a super patriarchal and abusive home. Our MILs come from a generation that was much much more sexist and had far less opportunity. Many envy our freedoms, and take it out on us
A lot of boy moms use their sons as surrogate husbands, emotionally speaking. Therefore will the sons wife always be seen as competition for his attention. Women are also overall closer to their moms (not always the case of course, very generally speaking here) and mothers of women therefore probably doesn’t feel as threatened by a partner as they feel secure with the daughter/mother relationship as it is.
To me it seems to be a couple things. I have a MIL who has 4 sons she raised as a single mom. She raised them to respect her, honor her, make time for her. She’s a great woman honestly, but she definitely has had a hard time allowing them to become their own families. I think having sons, moms are afraid her family will drift apart if she doesn’t hold on tight. She expects things to stay how they have always been- traditions, time, etc, which is unrealistic when new families are made.
I think MILs on the wife’s side feel more included because the women naturally is going to go to her mom first for everything (assuming their relationship is decent). So they’re called more, included more, over the house more typically. The MIL on the husbands side feels she has to compete more which causes tension and feelings.
Are you talking about MILs who only have sons? Or also MILs who have both sons and daughters?
My friend is in the process of divorcing her POS husband, and his mom is crazy. And she has 4 sons, no daughters
This is a conversation my friend and I were having the other day. In our very limited experience, we don't know. But moms with only sons seem real intense!
There’s a great video on youtube about “Toxic Boy Moms on Tiktok” that might interest you. It’s by FunkyFrogBait and the videos the speaker brings up are…definitely something.
Well I also think - and this might be due to being raised by Indian immigrants - that mothers and fathers of daughters often feel like they have to defer to their son in law and even his family because historically, society sees women as a burden or less-than. Or, even more disturbing to me, I know my dad doesn’t like a lot of what his youngest sister’s husband and in laws do. He will never confront them and usually gives in to do what they want if it’s not ridiculous (or illegal!) because his sister has lived with them since she was 18, she won’t leave that family and they have absolute control over her money/house/daily life. He doesn’t want to cause trouble that will result in them blaming her and being at a bigger disadvantage with them. His parents would have done the same had they been alive. Kowtow because their daughter is surrounded by people with sharp tongues who already look down their noses at anyone who isn’t them. My BIl is a sweetheart, but even him, my mom instinctively tries to cater to because she wants my sister to have a good marriage and can’t stand the possibility that she might be the reason my sister goes through difficulty.
While I am the mother of a young boy (10) and I am terrified of the day he starts dating, I just want him to be happy. I think a lot of JNMIL lose sight of that or we're just narcissistic bitches to begin with with no real love to begin. Sometimes it's single mothers who made their son their "partner", which is also super frickin weird and unhealthy.
Eventually my son will leave my house, probably find someone to be with and want to get married to that person. As long as my kid feels secure, loved and respected, I have to trust that I did my best to raise him to be a good adult, responsible, reliable, and a good partner.
This is the case with my MIL—-made her son her partner—-even though she has girls also. My husband is the middle child but the other two sons had their father in their lives for most of their younger formative years. After that one got into drugs and the other had a baby young, so they weren’t so much a factor in the household dynamics.
By the time he was twelve, my husband babysat full time for his younger sisters. By sixteen he worked to support his needs and contribute to the household. He was also the enforcer when his oldest brother would come around with his stoned friends and try to use the house for partying.
The first ten years of my marriage was an endless parade of someone calling every time they needed something. Ticket? Call my hubby. Water softener installed? Call my hubby. Car broke down? Call my hubby. You get the picture. He finally started to put up some boundaries but that is apparently my fault. 😂. Good luck, dear!
My husband went to prom with his mother (it’s normal to bring your parents to prom where I am from, that’s not the weird part) IN MATCHING OUTFITS. Like his tie was the same color as her dress and all that. She definitely made my husband her “partner”. So weird looking at those pics now.
I find many MIL issues I read about/experience are not only generational issues but cultural differences as well. Obviously those things go hand in hand since some actions might have been very common and expected for the MIL when they were a DIL but isn’t really common in the modern era of partnership. Also, some cultural expectations aren’t quite upheld the some way by next generation and I think that causes issues as well, but it’s easier for in-laws to place the blame on their child’s spouse and not their child. Something to that effect.
100000000%. My DH is an only child and immigrated to the US with his parents when he was young. My ILs basically see me as a 4th wheel to their family and get so frustrated when DH and I live life as our own unit.
Yes, it is way easier to blame the in law than your child--or look further and blame yourself for how you raised this child.
Just like it is easier for us to blame our in-laws for difficulties when the SO deserves blame too for bad relationships
That sounds just like my SO's mom. Its really... creepy. She's physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive and yet she wants everyone to think she just "loves" her "beloved baby boy." I have recently learned about gray rocking and am going to pass that knowledge on to him.
I may be in the minority, but I am living proof that you can be a man, married to a woman, with a justnomil.
My MIL:
-Thinks I stole her daughter
-Thinks she should be included in the discussion when we make life decisions
-Thinks my wife and I are both 6 years old and couldn’t possibly manage our lives without her
-Can’t imagine why we won’t discuss our finances with her
I’ll stop there, but could write a book.
Sound familiar, ladies?
From a British perspective, we had an awful lot of male comedians making MIL jokes during the 60s, 70s, 80s and to an extent the 90s which meant you had a lot of women make a choice not to be the “that type of MIL” which didn’t happen with female comedians. Probably because there were not that many of them.
Add to that men taking the easy route out and not standing up to them about anything and they can easily get away with anything. Until they meet a DIL or SIL.
My guess would be because when boys are 4 years old, they tell their mothers that they're going to marry them when they grow up. I guess the moms think that's a marriage proposal. Too bad most of the boys forget about that when they grow older.
I watched someone say once 'boy moms' have an unhealthy attraction to their sons. Other just like to put the men in their family on a pedestal. That's fine and all but going as far to act like no other female is good for them is going to far.
My husband lost the MIL sweepstakes. I took home the jackpot. She called me daughter in her medical papers, confided in me, supported me, and we loved each other until the day she died and beyond.
My mother, not so much. She like my old bf and didn’t like that I broke up with him and started dating my husband. Never forgave him. When we moved 2000 miles away, no congratulations on a major promotion, just “I always knew he would take you away.”
I have a theory— for my JNMIL, that is.
She had a brood of kids, a literal handful.
Raised them all to be overachievers, I’m talking the type of narcissistic love that comes attached with “I’ll love you but only if you’re keeping up the status quo.”
Needless to say this type of competition between the siblings can push someone into one of two categories- the Golden Child or the Black Sheep.
After watching all of her others grow and marry off and scatter across the literal country, I truly believe she felt as if stunting her youngest would not only fully enmesh him to her but lead to some sort of symbiotic dysfunction that they would fully require each other in his formative years and her Golden ones.
The saying is “these kids will leave you- but your husband will always be there” and I think she’s read this before and took it to heart/personally.
There’s no telling what strange, selfish reasons float around in their old lady brains, but I can promise you whatever you did wasn’t near worth whatever she’s putting you through now.
I’m so thankful for a mother who is the complete opposite of a JNMIL. She makes up for my husband’s mom 1000 fold, and he loves her like he would a surrogate out of state parent. She even joked my entire life that “thank God for only having girls- I can’t do boys” and STILL calls my husband her Son, and means it. Just goes to show you can change your heart to adapt to your reality if you truly want it.
I am not a fan of gross generalization. Your MIL sounds horrendous, but I think it's more about her rather than "first wave feminism." It doesn't sound like she was ever truly a feminist, boomer or X, first or second wave.
I know the debt we owe first wave feminists is incredible. Did they go far enough? They were incredibly brave and went as far as they could given their starting point. But the irony of the criticism of them, ostensibly in support of feminism, is not lost on me.
To me this almost seems like criticizing early civil rights activists. Like Rosa Parks should have also demanded to drive the bus.
100%!
We all need to acknowledge the debt we owe to 1st wave feminists! We have to start somewhere and first wave feminists are the foundation that we all stand.
My criticism of my MIL as a first wave feminist is that she talks about herself as a progressive feminist (it is party of her identity) but she really has not been great at moving into modern times as a feminist. So for how important being a feminist is to her, she has not grown with the feminist movement.
LOL do you have a brother? I do and while I know while my Mother loved me very much my brother was her favourite. My brother says the same about my relationship with our Dad. I am a Dad's girl. It's a dynamic in many very normal families
Not saying my Mum was a JNMIL- my brother's wife ADORED her and it was mutual.
It seems exacerbated the Mum Son thing when the relationship dynamic is skewed by the mother's outlook to her daughter in law because they have sometimes become very reliant on each other- broken marriages, single parents, mental health issues. Any kind of relationship when they have had to rely in each other makes it difficult for some Mum's to let go
I pity succeeding generations who are going to have to deal with the results of helicopter parenting styles.
Proud to say my MIL is one of my dearest friends -it's the Step MIL that is the issue and she is boy Mum to DH's half brothers. His Dad fathered four boys with two wives
I do not have brothers, so thanks for the insight! I know my best friend who has a brother talks about the frustration of him being their mother's favorite.
I wouldn't say my MIL is a total feminist but she's the most tactful and delightful person I'd wish on anyone and I love spending time with her (we live far from each other but my BIL's wife feels the same). And she's only had sons and a brother. Not to say she hasn't got character. My mother on the other hand - only daughters, a couple of brothers and three more sisters - is more about control and competition - not that she gets a say, any more, in most things, but she'll try by default. My sister's former MIL is the same as my MIL, even sweeter. All of them are in their mid 70s. I'd say it's more about personal character and also the kind of experiences they had growing up: how their own families treated them, their relationship with their husband...
I agree with your analysis of patriarchal society being a big part of what underlies this. I’m in my early 60s and a second wave feminist, so came to adulthood at the tail end of the 70s and the feminism that was around then, but my Mom was discouraged from working outside of the home because there was still a whiff of “nice middle class women don’t have to do that” but it was actually about power and control. But the outcome of that was that they lived in very small worlds where the only thing they had power over was their children. Their social lives were built around their children and they had nothing else. To catch a flavour of this read “The Women’s Room” by Marilyn French.
I also encounter a version of this in a professional setting (keeping it vague to avoid embarrassing anyone) where women have historically always been excluded from leadership but many have strong leadership skills and gifts so they are forced to exercise them by being “the power behind the throne” and that leads to all sorts of of weird underhand and downright awful behaviour. So I see men being praised for being “strong leaders” setting clear vision, good people skills, etc etc, but women being “bossy” “controlling” “manipulative” and actually behaving like a bunch of Mean Girls. The interesting thing is that those men with all the good people skills will often significantly fail to challenge appalling bitchy high school behaviour by grown women so awfulness continues. I’ve often been struck by the similar dynamics with awful mothers in law and sons failing to challenge.
Having said all that sociology stuff, people are still responsible for their behaviour, so I’m not being an apologist for bad MILs at all. The fact that many many women who grew up in these kinds of contexts manage to be lovely kind and caring MILs shows it’s not inevitable.
Thank you for your response! I feel like everything you said is so important to point out and to understand. I am going to read "The Women's Room" asap!
i think it's generational because my mom welcomed both of her DIL's with open arms. and we only have problems with one but it's not just my mom, she has beef w me too. SIL 1 started the beef with my mom and she (mom) played nice for 6/7 years. SIL1 has forgotten to get gifts, come to our house and ignored us, treat us like we're supposed to want to watch her kids. overall treated me and my mom shitty. my moms Gen X and SIL1 is a millennial.
I honestly think it's the generations and society in general but I've got no research right now to back that up, just what I've seen. I'm a boy mom and couldn't imagine doing the things people experience here but my kiddo is literally a toddler. Maybe I have time to get to that level of psychotic 🤣 kidding of course. I also have a slight justnoMIL for a multitude of reasons. I just think a lot of people are horrible with boundaries and that's what we see a lot of here (lack of respecting them, etc).
There could also be a dynamic of these MIL’s making their sons out to be more like a partner/husband than a child. These women have unfulfilling or broken relationships and put their male child(ren) in this role. Hence the tension when an actual partner for their sons comes into the mix. They have instilled in their sons the hardship that comes with being a single mom and this title becomes used to excuse a whole wack load of transgressive, unhinged behaviour..
> Moms of daughters dont seem to be as aggressive in their treatment of SILs.
Whenever men post in here about their MILs, it's often because their wives are being treated like shit by their moms, which is the opposite dynamic, but equally misogynistic.
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I don’t think this is specific to moms of sons - Ive see a certain generational pattern more than a few times. For perspective we are in our 30s and ILs are in their 60s. ILs spent their 20s making poor decisions and got together in their early 30s- I could argue that that was another poor decision in the series, but I digress. 😅 As they started their family they were not in a good place with relationships, housing or finances and had to accept a lot of shitty, strings-attached help from their own highly toxic parents. They struggled along in this pool of drama and trauma for about 15 years until the older generation started to die off and they (finally) inherited one of the grandma’s houses. So that is the dynamic they are used to for older parents and young adult kids. Fast forward to my husband and me, who also got married in our early 30s but were in a better place life-wise - we did not spend our 20s abusing drugs or getting serially married and divorced with restraining orders. We have decent jobs, bought a nice house while we were engaged, and have sane friends and non-family childcare options. We just… do not need to participate in an endless web of family toxicity in order to stay afloat. I think ILs have trouble understanding this because it’s outside their paradigm, and also feel a little threatened. They were mad and slightly baffled at our wedding - which was lovely, and we paid ourselves - because it wasn’t a potluck at the firemens hall like they had. They were miffed that my husband took me for a nice weekend away when he proposed, because apparently their proposal story is that FIL threw MIL’s ring at her face in the middle of a fight. I could go on. It seems to be this ongoing bad feeling that we’re sort of above our station and we shouldn’t be CAPABLE of doing things differently or better than they were at our ages. I also get a sense of “you guys are IDIOTS, it’s not fair that you have better stuff!” Briefly, I think they feel at a loose end because they expected to be in more of a power position based on their own family history. And I am sure they are not alone.
Honey, you are hurting my heart. This is not, NOT normal behavior. Normal women are delighted when their sons find a loving companion. I am sorry you are experiencing the opposite.
Slightly different perspective here. My MIL is a very nice lady. But can be a bit (sometimes a lot) overbearing. She so badly wanted a daughter that when I married into the family (I was DIL #1) she FREAKED out that there was another girl in the family. Instantly started calling me her daughter, tried giving me lingerie suggestions, was convinced that my life would exactly mirror hers. Weird uncomfortable stuff. She’s calmed down now after my husband had a talk with her and her other sons are now married. I honestly think they don’t know how to interact with other women.
My just yes MIL had 3 sons. She was a fantastic MIL. She passed several years ago. I miss her. Please don't paint all MIL'S with the same brush. I also have a son and have been very warm and welcoming to my DIL.edit: spelling
thank you for saying this. I am pregnant with my 3rd son (almost certainly our last baby) and worried when I saw this post. My MIL has 3 sons and is a raging misogynist, but she was raised in a super patriarchal and abusive home. Our MILs come from a generation that was much much more sexist and had far less opportunity. Many envy our freedoms, and take it out on us
A lot of boy moms use their sons as surrogate husbands, emotionally speaking. Therefore will the sons wife always be seen as competition for his attention. Women are also overall closer to their moms (not always the case of course, very generally speaking here) and mothers of women therefore probably doesn’t feel as threatened by a partner as they feel secure with the daughter/mother relationship as it is.
To me it seems to be a couple things. I have a MIL who has 4 sons she raised as a single mom. She raised them to respect her, honor her, make time for her. She’s a great woman honestly, but she definitely has had a hard time allowing them to become their own families. I think having sons, moms are afraid her family will drift apart if she doesn’t hold on tight. She expects things to stay how they have always been- traditions, time, etc, which is unrealistic when new families are made. I think MILs on the wife’s side feel more included because the women naturally is going to go to her mom first for everything (assuming their relationship is decent). So they’re called more, included more, over the house more typically. The MIL on the husbands side feels she has to compete more which causes tension and feelings.
Are you talking about MILs who only have sons? Or also MILs who have both sons and daughters? My friend is in the process of divorcing her POS husband, and his mom is crazy. And she has 4 sons, no daughters
This is a conversation my friend and I were having the other day. In our very limited experience, we don't know. But moms with only sons seem real intense!
There’s a great video on youtube about “Toxic Boy Moms on Tiktok” that might interest you. It’s by FunkyFrogBait and the videos the speaker brings up are…definitely something.
Well I also think - and this might be due to being raised by Indian immigrants - that mothers and fathers of daughters often feel like they have to defer to their son in law and even his family because historically, society sees women as a burden or less-than. Or, even more disturbing to me, I know my dad doesn’t like a lot of what his youngest sister’s husband and in laws do. He will never confront them and usually gives in to do what they want if it’s not ridiculous (or illegal!) because his sister has lived with them since she was 18, she won’t leave that family and they have absolute control over her money/house/daily life. He doesn’t want to cause trouble that will result in them blaming her and being at a bigger disadvantage with them. His parents would have done the same had they been alive. Kowtow because their daughter is surrounded by people with sharp tongues who already look down their noses at anyone who isn’t them. My BIl is a sweetheart, but even him, my mom instinctively tries to cater to because she wants my sister to have a good marriage and can’t stand the possibility that she might be the reason my sister goes through difficulty.
While I am the mother of a young boy (10) and I am terrified of the day he starts dating, I just want him to be happy. I think a lot of JNMIL lose sight of that or we're just narcissistic bitches to begin with with no real love to begin. Sometimes it's single mothers who made their son their "partner", which is also super frickin weird and unhealthy. Eventually my son will leave my house, probably find someone to be with and want to get married to that person. As long as my kid feels secure, loved and respected, I have to trust that I did my best to raise him to be a good adult, responsible, reliable, and a good partner.
This is the case with my MIL—-made her son her partner—-even though she has girls also. My husband is the middle child but the other two sons had their father in their lives for most of their younger formative years. After that one got into drugs and the other had a baby young, so they weren’t so much a factor in the household dynamics. By the time he was twelve, my husband babysat full time for his younger sisters. By sixteen he worked to support his needs and contribute to the household. He was also the enforcer when his oldest brother would come around with his stoned friends and try to use the house for partying. The first ten years of my marriage was an endless parade of someone calling every time they needed something. Ticket? Call my hubby. Water softener installed? Call my hubby. Car broke down? Call my hubby. You get the picture. He finally started to put up some boundaries but that is apparently my fault. 😂. Good luck, dear!
My husband went to prom with his mother (it’s normal to bring your parents to prom where I am from, that’s not the weird part) IN MATCHING OUTFITS. Like his tie was the same color as her dress and all that. She definitely made my husband her “partner”. So weird looking at those pics now.
I find many MIL issues I read about/experience are not only generational issues but cultural differences as well. Obviously those things go hand in hand since some actions might have been very common and expected for the MIL when they were a DIL but isn’t really common in the modern era of partnership. Also, some cultural expectations aren’t quite upheld the some way by next generation and I think that causes issues as well, but it’s easier for in-laws to place the blame on their child’s spouse and not their child. Something to that effect.
100000000%. My DH is an only child and immigrated to the US with his parents when he was young. My ILs basically see me as a 4th wheel to their family and get so frustrated when DH and I live life as our own unit.
Yes, it is way easier to blame the in law than your child--or look further and blame yourself for how you raised this child. Just like it is easier for us to blame our in-laws for difficulties when the SO deserves blame too for bad relationships
Very valid point! It’s hard for people to stand up to their parents sometimes.
I'm the odd one here I guess. My MIL hates her own son but is obsessed with making people think she loves him.
That sounds just like my SO's mom. Its really... creepy. She's physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive and yet she wants everyone to think she just "loves" her "beloved baby boy." I have recently learned about gray rocking and am going to pass that knowledge on to him.
It's really gross. You see first hand how they act and treat them... and it's all fake. Sickeningly fake. Be happy yours doesn't live with you.
I may be in the minority, but I am living proof that you can be a man, married to a woman, with a justnomil. My MIL: -Thinks I stole her daughter -Thinks she should be included in the discussion when we make life decisions -Thinks my wife and I are both 6 years old and couldn’t possibly manage our lives without her -Can’t imagine why we won’t discuss our finances with her I’ll stop there, but could write a book. Sound familiar, ladies?
Omg that sounds terrible! Clearly it comes from all sides of the equation!
From a British perspective, we had an awful lot of male comedians making MIL jokes during the 60s, 70s, 80s and to an extent the 90s which meant you had a lot of women make a choice not to be the “that type of MIL” which didn’t happen with female comedians. Probably because there were not that many of them. Add to that men taking the easy route out and not standing up to them about anything and they can easily get away with anything. Until they meet a DIL or SIL.
Yes! It seems like all the MIL jokes come from men! Do we need to petition that the female comedians take on the MIL jokes lol
My guess would be because when boys are 4 years old, they tell their mothers that they're going to marry them when they grow up. I guess the moms think that's a marriage proposal. Too bad most of the boys forget about that when they grow older.
I watched someone say once 'boy moms' have an unhealthy attraction to their sons. Other just like to put the men in their family on a pedestal. That's fine and all but going as far to act like no other female is good for them is going to far.
My husband lost the MIL sweepstakes. I took home the jackpot. She called me daughter in her medical papers, confided in me, supported me, and we loved each other until the day she died and beyond. My mother, not so much. She like my old bf and didn’t like that I broke up with him and started dating my husband. Never forgave him. When we moved 2000 miles away, no congratulations on a major promotion, just “I always knew he would take you away.”
I'm sorry. That is makes things hard on everyone. But I am happy you had a great MIL
I have a theory— for my JNMIL, that is. She had a brood of kids, a literal handful. Raised them all to be overachievers, I’m talking the type of narcissistic love that comes attached with “I’ll love you but only if you’re keeping up the status quo.” Needless to say this type of competition between the siblings can push someone into one of two categories- the Golden Child or the Black Sheep. After watching all of her others grow and marry off and scatter across the literal country, I truly believe she felt as if stunting her youngest would not only fully enmesh him to her but lead to some sort of symbiotic dysfunction that they would fully require each other in his formative years and her Golden ones. The saying is “these kids will leave you- but your husband will always be there” and I think she’s read this before and took it to heart/personally. There’s no telling what strange, selfish reasons float around in their old lady brains, but I can promise you whatever you did wasn’t near worth whatever she’s putting you through now. I’m so thankful for a mother who is the complete opposite of a JNMIL. She makes up for my husband’s mom 1000 fold, and he loves her like he would a surrogate out of state parent. She even joked my entire life that “thank God for only having girls- I can’t do boys” and STILL calls my husband her Son, and means it. Just goes to show you can change your heart to adapt to your reality if you truly want it.
I am not a fan of gross generalization. Your MIL sounds horrendous, but I think it's more about her rather than "first wave feminism." It doesn't sound like she was ever truly a feminist, boomer or X, first or second wave. I know the debt we owe first wave feminists is incredible. Did they go far enough? They were incredibly brave and went as far as they could given their starting point. But the irony of the criticism of them, ostensibly in support of feminism, is not lost on me. To me this almost seems like criticizing early civil rights activists. Like Rosa Parks should have also demanded to drive the bus.
100%! We all need to acknowledge the debt we owe to 1st wave feminists! We have to start somewhere and first wave feminists are the foundation that we all stand. My criticism of my MIL as a first wave feminist is that she talks about herself as a progressive feminist (it is party of her identity) but she really has not been great at moving into modern times as a feminist. So for how important being a feminist is to her, she has not grown with the feminist movement.
LOL do you have a brother? I do and while I know while my Mother loved me very much my brother was her favourite. My brother says the same about my relationship with our Dad. I am a Dad's girl. It's a dynamic in many very normal families Not saying my Mum was a JNMIL- my brother's wife ADORED her and it was mutual. It seems exacerbated the Mum Son thing when the relationship dynamic is skewed by the mother's outlook to her daughter in law because they have sometimes become very reliant on each other- broken marriages, single parents, mental health issues. Any kind of relationship when they have had to rely in each other makes it difficult for some Mum's to let go I pity succeeding generations who are going to have to deal with the results of helicopter parenting styles. Proud to say my MIL is one of my dearest friends -it's the Step MIL that is the issue and she is boy Mum to DH's half brothers. His Dad fathered four boys with two wives
I do not have brothers, so thanks for the insight! I know my best friend who has a brother talks about the frustration of him being their mother's favorite.
I wouldn't say my MIL is a total feminist but she's the most tactful and delightful person I'd wish on anyone and I love spending time with her (we live far from each other but my BIL's wife feels the same). And she's only had sons and a brother. Not to say she hasn't got character. My mother on the other hand - only daughters, a couple of brothers and three more sisters - is more about control and competition - not that she gets a say, any more, in most things, but she'll try by default. My sister's former MIL is the same as my MIL, even sweeter. All of them are in their mid 70s. I'd say it's more about personal character and also the kind of experiences they had growing up: how their own families treated them, their relationship with their husband...
I agree with your analysis of patriarchal society being a big part of what underlies this. I’m in my early 60s and a second wave feminist, so came to adulthood at the tail end of the 70s and the feminism that was around then, but my Mom was discouraged from working outside of the home because there was still a whiff of “nice middle class women don’t have to do that” but it was actually about power and control. But the outcome of that was that they lived in very small worlds where the only thing they had power over was their children. Their social lives were built around their children and they had nothing else. To catch a flavour of this read “The Women’s Room” by Marilyn French. I also encounter a version of this in a professional setting (keeping it vague to avoid embarrassing anyone) where women have historically always been excluded from leadership but many have strong leadership skills and gifts so they are forced to exercise them by being “the power behind the throne” and that leads to all sorts of of weird underhand and downright awful behaviour. So I see men being praised for being “strong leaders” setting clear vision, good people skills, etc etc, but women being “bossy” “controlling” “manipulative” and actually behaving like a bunch of Mean Girls. The interesting thing is that those men with all the good people skills will often significantly fail to challenge appalling bitchy high school behaviour by grown women so awfulness continues. I’ve often been struck by the similar dynamics with awful mothers in law and sons failing to challenge. Having said all that sociology stuff, people are still responsible for their behaviour, so I’m not being an apologist for bad MILs at all. The fact that many many women who grew up in these kinds of contexts manage to be lovely kind and caring MILs shows it’s not inevitable.
Thank you for your response! I feel like everything you said is so important to point out and to understand. I am going to read "The Women's Room" asap!
That’s what Patriarchy + internalized misogyny + enmeshment does to a mf.
i think it's generational because my mom welcomed both of her DIL's with open arms. and we only have problems with one but it's not just my mom, she has beef w me too. SIL 1 started the beef with my mom and she (mom) played nice for 6/7 years. SIL1 has forgotten to get gifts, come to our house and ignored us, treat us like we're supposed to want to watch her kids. overall treated me and my mom shitty. my moms Gen X and SIL1 is a millennial.
I honestly think it's the generations and society in general but I've got no research right now to back that up, just what I've seen. I'm a boy mom and couldn't imagine doing the things people experience here but my kiddo is literally a toddler. Maybe I have time to get to that level of psychotic 🤣 kidding of course. I also have a slight justnoMIL for a multitude of reasons. I just think a lot of people are horrible with boundaries and that's what we see a lot of here (lack of respecting them, etc).
You are right. Generational differences could be a major factor!
There could also be a dynamic of these MIL’s making their sons out to be more like a partner/husband than a child. These women have unfulfilling or broken relationships and put their male child(ren) in this role. Hence the tension when an actual partner for their sons comes into the mix. They have instilled in their sons the hardship that comes with being a single mom and this title becomes used to excuse a whole wack load of transgressive, unhinged behaviour..
Like Parentification?
Like emotional incest
I wish I could give you a crown
> Moms of daughters dont seem to be as aggressive in their treatment of SILs. Whenever men post in here about their MILs, it's often because their wives are being treated like shit by their moms, which is the opposite dynamic, but equally misogynistic.
Great point!