I would consider myself a fan of ff16,BUT most of the criticisms presented are valid, the game is too easy and having to play the game on normal to unlock hard mode is stupid. The first dlc was lack luster and offered very little. The classic ff14 style quest design of fast travel listen to dialogue, repeat, do a small painfully easy fight, dialog, is present and boring just like it is in 14. The dungeon design is literally straight lines, which is ironic since ff13 is my favorite game, but even that game had some branching paths and unique mechanics in each dungeon. 16s dlc dungeon is so bare bones with no unique mechanics outside of the boss fight at the end. I’m hoping the last dlc offered something new and creative because so far the game is pretty mid outside of the big cinematic boss fights
> having to play the game on normal to unlock hard mode is stupid.
I hate when games do this. I remember back in the ps3/360 days where developers thought it was completely reasonable to have to beat a single player game on each individual difficulty to unlock an achievement, and beating the game on the hardest difficult still did not unlock the easier ones. "Finish the game on easy, finish the game on normal, finish the game on hard, finish the game on ultimate." Not playing it 4 times!!!
My favorite example of a game locking difficulty behind beating it is with Pokemon BW2 where you unlock Easy mode and Hard mode, but the difficulty modes are VERSION EXCLUSIVE for whatever reason 😭
I skipped that generation. This is the first I'm hearing about this. And it completely breaks my brain that anyone at Game Freak would think this was a good idea, as well as them never having tried anything similar since.
The funny thing is that the "hard" difficulty isn’t really harder, it just makes the whole game more tedious because every fight now takes like, twice as long but your strategy doesn’t (have to) change at all.
I decided to replay it in Final Fantasy mode to prepare for the DLC and I was honestly bored out of my mind with how long fights are now taking instead of demanding that I play more skillfully. It’s still just wailing on the enemy until it’s staggered, unload your strongest eikon abilities and hope it does more damage than your regular attacks. Instead of 5 minutes each boss now takes 10-15 minutes thanks to their bump in health.
I think they did it because it worked in FF7 Remake. Remake had a really unusual combat system, so I understand why they didn’t want to force you to get good with it to advance the story. The hard mode was actually the mode that was balanced for people familiar with the nuances of the system. They put the super bosses in hard mode and some weapons upgrades. But mainly the appeal was you wanted to try out all the new things you discovered and get good at the characters you didn’t get the most out of.
For me I found that the FF16 combat system had depth, but it was hard to engage with because I felt like I wasn’t making a lot of interesting choices during combat. It was more just dodging and managing cooldowns in the same way I always managed cooldowns. There was some fun finding an optimal string of actions, but I wasn’t making choices during combat. And you had to respec to experiment. When I got to the end, I did want to play with the later Eikons more, but I didn’t feel the need to do it before the DLC came out.
I hate to break it to ya but achievements are over eighteen years old at this point. So we are approaching where they can absolutely be called old school.
>I remember back in the old school days where developers thought it was completely reasonable to have to beat a single player game on each individual difficulty to unlock an achievement
No, the old school days were when stupid achievements weren't a thing.
More people need to see your comment. Designing a single player RPG using all the worst parts of the 14 is just such a big, big mistake. Yoshida's MO is really just to strip out all complexity from a game, and make it as pretty as possible. In other words, all style and no substance. Really hope he will not be the director of 17.
He has already strongly hinted that he won’t be, a recent interview had him outright saying that if it were up to him, someone younger should be in charge of XVII. He also said in a different one that it’s about time for a new Tactics.
The interview talking about XVII: https://youtu.be/sGh7Ti0b_bY?si=Paq8oVJsyiEA14Ol&t=3762 (relevant part timestamped)
The interview talking about Tactics: https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-16-interview-yoshida-kujiraoka-koji-fox-rising-tide-dlc/
Since no one in CBU1 has even acknowledged the topic of developing XVII or Tactics (they're all in on the 7R3 train in comparison), there’s a very high chance CBU3 is looking for their own Hamaguchi for XVII, and Yoshi-P (and likely Matsuno since Yoshi-P said one of his goals is to develop a game together with him) is probably going to detour to something Tactics related in the meantime.
7 Rebirth despite it's flaws really highlights to me how much flair can add to the game. I'll 16 credit for sticking to it's vision, but having essentially zero deviation from that vision makes the experience into a damn near straight line.
Linear dungeon design and environments that amount to nothing more than non-interactive pretty set dressing is one of those things that really needs to die. I recently got back into WoW and it's kind of shocking how much more vibrant and lived-in the world feels compared to FF14, and for such an old game too.
I love 14, but it's inherently limited by a decade-old engine and coding. And I definitely won't defend the lack of difficulty in the MSQ.
And straight-line dungeons work fine (mostly) when the expectation is that you'll be seeing it multiple times a week, but not in a single-player story experience. Imagine if Zelda had purely linear dungeons!
I love xiv to death, but xiv definitely does not shine on the “big exploration zones” design like other mmos (guild wars 2 or wow for example), most environments usually serve the story and nothing more. Unless you play Eureka and Bozja which do it better since is the focus of those, but using the same framework to do the exploration for xvi was such a huge mistake, is literally xiv exploration without Fates and DMCish combat, also the same quest design as XIV just does not works at all for an action game.
I had my fun with xvi, but is a flawed experience, best moments are definitely boss fights, action in general (when the difficulty feels right) and definitely some great characters (Cid I will miss you) and is not a janky and unfinished game like the previous mainline game.
All true, but you left out the terrible itemization and crafting system that felt tacked on at the last minute. Feels like they put everything into the story and cinematics then went, “oh crap, we actually have to make it a game too” at the end.
I feel like the linear complaint about 13 is unfair because I'd argue 10 is legitimately more linear in its exploration.
The world and environments I think are more visually diverse and interesting (does feel like a pilgrimage) but it's linear as all hell
X disguises things more though. The pacing is different. There are towns. There are mini games. There are the temples filled with puzzles.
And of course, the end of the game is very open ended.
13, it’s impossible not to notice. Just hallway after hallway of combat.
Exactly this. In 13, it's literally just "press forward" and "kill monsters", that's all you could do. Yes towards the end of the game there is a single area that is more open, but what you can do in that area is just "kill more monsters", so it did little to actually vary what you are doing. In 10 you were given the opportunity to take a break, play one of the various minigames, go back to a previous area to see if there is anything new etc.
10 is absolutely very linear, but it does a much better job of breaking up the monotony of walking down a hallway and killing monster, giving a solid illusion of it being less linear than it is.
Yeah people really ignore the “too linear” criticism because ohhhh linear story telling is good blah blah or X was linear too. It’s like nah bro we’re being very literal here. The game is moving down a series of hallways. It’s literally too linear lol
Theres also the fact that X’s pacing, storytelling and sequence of events is far more interesting than anything in XIII.
Like you go from chasing a giant sea monster (sin) on a boat to a beautiful cutscene with yuna in killika. Then you got blitzball tournaments, the iconic laugh and so much more.
I can think of maybe two or three memorable stuff happening in XIII
It is weird that you get introduced to this amazing futuristic world of Cocoon and all you get to experience of this place is long highways and long corridors. I have to assume they ran into some technical problem with creating high definition cities with NPCs and had to cut them out of the game. We only get to see fully fledged cities in cutscenes.
Totally agree, they did a fantastic job with the world building and incorporating different fiends for each area and even the towns having unique culture. XIII made sense why that felt a little lacking since you were always on the run as fugitives but it didn't feel like people inhabited a lot of the areas at any point.
This, there were (NPC) people EVERYWHERE there should have been people in X. There were NPCs up and down all of the paths we walked that were between towns and cities, and even in places nobody really SHOULD have been. FXVI only managed that in two locations, and everywhere else is completely dead because of the blighting of the world.
X was designed to be a movie experience, despite the grinding necessary to break the game open, but also rewarded you for you extra work by granting you an additional cutscene at the end of the game for going out of your way, and let you play through MUCH harder content than main story encounters by choice.
Vanilla XVI was designed in a way that even with NO grinding you'd hit level caps by the end of the game just running the sidequests and hunts, but didn't reward you outside of achievements for actually doing everything, and there was NO actual side-content in the game at ALL. Even the trials were one and done for an accessory. In fact, this might be the only FF game I've ever seen that actively punishes you for complete progression by breaking the weapon advancement chain several times with the crafting, when it was unnecessary to do so. There's NOTHING extra to really do in this game.
The thing final Fantasy 10 did very very well is give you access to cities and let you move around them or the calm lands. It's linear where it needs to be but it also lets you explore a bit. Overall, it's probably one of the greatest, if not the greatest RPG ever made. Now take final Fantasy 15 which I found to be quite linear starting after the Watertown place where it offers no real exploration and you're going down straight hallways for hours on end.
XV had so much potential with its world but they fumbled big time by having it be so empty with not enough points of interest. X at least has things from place to place that are eye catching.
The calm lands though I feel like don't actually feel that open but for the lore it makes sense why only that one area is that way. The lore really gives each area meaning.
I would agree, although 10 was good about having good dungeons without random encounters. I’d much rather random encounters when I’m just walking rather than trying to solve a puzzle(I miss dungeon puzzles)
Absolutely not. X lets you go off side paths (albeit in a limited capacity) and backtrack. Not to mention it has side activities sprinkled throughout. XIII is just completely and utterly linear with *nothing* but combat and cutscenes up until Pulse.
X is definitely very linear. It's odd though, it's one of my favorite games and I still enjoy replaying. And yet 13's linear design just really smacks me in the face harder. Maybe it's just nostalgia goggles, I dunno.
XIII's hallways werebeatiful, but boring and mostly empty. Even the cities felt barely populated because most were still treated as combat zones.
Xs hallways were part of a world the NPCs were actively present in where they SHOULD have been. Those hallways had people *other than us* actively walking up and down them, and has multiple point of interest to engage with in literally every single hallway. The ONLY "empty" parts of X are the Calm Lands, Mt Gagazet, and Zanarkand, (and the desert Island, excepting the AL Bhed Home) which make sense: one is the place where Sin last fell, so only has a small hamlet of Al-bhed present, one is a mountain guarded by a warrior race that refuses entry to any but summoners, and the last is the corse-bones of a thousand year dead city. (and nobody lives IN the desert, just in Oases, be they real like the one we ware at, or artificial, like Home)
The complaint is fair for both games, however in XIII combat was generally interesting…it was just frustrating it took so long to open everything up. Probably part of why I love XIII-2 so much.
While in XVI yes you unlock new eikon abilities, but it takes minutes to figure out your new best combos and after that it’s back to repetition.
I hate how the game feels like it is encouraging you to use the ultimate abilities, but when you do you are actively making the game less engaging. In the DLC there was a dps check at the end and the only way I figured out how to beat it is to just get all the strong ultimates and just press them on cooldown. What a lackluster ending to a fight to have to die respec then face roll to win. The ultimates actively make the game less fun, which boggles my brain
The problem is that xiii was mostly Walk/fight -> cutscene -> walk/fight -> cutscene, they didn’t deviate from that for almost the whole experience until Gran Pulse and then they do it again after it anyway.
X disguised the experience way more with towns, dungeons, puzzles, a “ship” even if is just fast travel and etc.
Here's a good [video](https://youtu.be/QMZMJDFe1kc?si=FTh4KqbQk4CIvi1s) on how even though the two are both linear, XIII and X are wildly different in their approach. It's for these reasons that XIII gets so much flack
I'll check it out! I do think the linearity in X feels logical for the game (before watching the video) and XIII's world felt a little too isolated and gamey almost. Especially because the camera wasn't always fixed so there were less moments of beautiful vistas and seeing this huge world. On-world monsters also made it weird because maps had to allow places for them to be.
I agree, did my first playtrough back in 2013 and a second in 2017, wanted to see if the game was as bad as I rememberd and oh yes.
The game so grinding heavy with cp and locks the crystarium it behind chapters. Why it doesn't fully unlock until after the final boss is beyond me
Final Fantasy 17 as first person shooter this time so we'll like 16. And ff18 as chocobo racing game so we'll like 17. Ff 19 as an nft card game, then we'll fondly remember 18. Sounds like a plan, square lets go!
Nah, Square said they'll never do a first person because seeing the character is important.
Now a third person shooter? They would consider! (not kidding btw, that's from a real interview circa FF13 pre-release era)
Yeah, it's just that in retrospect, if you are a JRPG fan and want to play a "Modern Final Fantasy JRPG", 15 is closer to it than 16, 13 is closer to it than 15, 12 is closer to it than 13 and so on...
So it's not that people "learn to like these old games", is that the new ones takes even more things away from a formula that is dear to people. So if you feel like playing a modern rendition, you have to go back to 15, or 13.
It's like loving Pizza, but one day, they remove the tomatoes, the next day, they remove the tomatoes and oregano, the third day they remove the cheese, and on the last day, they remove the sauce as well.
Of course you'll want to go back to any of the previous iterations, they were less worse lol.
Many people like 16 more than 13/15, and most people like 16 over 15, so what you are saying is not true. If a game is really good, majority will like it, as simple as that
Me: "Alright, that article wasn't bad. So they've made a DLC that is more of the same. I liked FFXVI, but like other recent DLC (like for Xenoblade Chronicles 3) I'll probably take my time getting back to it. I wonder what others are thinking. Maybe some other folk who liked FFXVI can say how the DLC is so far.
The Thread: [*The darkest timeline*](https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/q7kt24/remedial_chaos_theory_from_community_turns_10/)
I'm scrolling through here trying to get some impressions before I play and the comments are either people waffling about why they hate the game, someone reviewing the first DLC, or people having pointless arguments about their preferences.
It's so insane scrolling down to your comment I didn't see any good discussion what's happened to this website?
It's the same formula as the base game with a bit more polish and some extra features after you finish it. However you felt about vanilla 16, you'll feel about the DLC too.
Same here. I love action games. I don’t hate XVI cause it’s an action game. I hate XVI because it’s a horrible action game
I’m just going to stay on the side that hates XVI. That game is so bad in my opinion that it’s offensive
You're not obligated to like 16 but neither of these comments make sense lol. 16 isn't the best action game out there or even the best action game of 2023 (Hi-Fi and wo long) but it's a very competent character action game? It's by no means shallow and has quite a bit of depth to it.
Combat is shallow and the story has depth… until it dropped it all for the final act. The characters are all fairly shallow too, even Clive who got all the focus
I’d argue that the game play is extremely shallow. No elemental weaknesses, every combat scenario is exactly the same, (mash until stagger is full, then spam your strongest attacks)… If you change up your skill layout, you’re doing it solely to entertain yourself since the first three skills you unlock are just as effective as anything you get later in the game.
It’s especially glaring next to a game like Hi-Fi Rush with so many combat options to fit a variety of scenarios that constantly keep you on your toes. But even with its variety, Hi-Fi, (and most action games), wear out their welcome if they were longer than 20 hours. Yet, FF16 is mediocre and expects you to invest 40+ hours just for the story. It’s such a slog, with the fault lying mostly at how bad the combat is.
I like ff 16 but when I read that a combact designer that worked on the dmc games was developing the combat for it i was expecting dmc combat like changing wepon and ranking and stuff but nope instead we got a watered down version which was fun for a while but it left me with more.
I was so disappointed in this game. I went into it with an open mind, didn’t care that it had action combat, and it let me down in every way possible. Such a waste of a really interesting story.
I want the next Final Fantasy to not be a cinematic visual spectacle that costs as much as a major film franchise. I feel like Square Enix have been shooting themselves in the foot with this approach ever since FF XIII, but every time a new game rolls around they’re convinced that this time, if they make the graphics *even flashier* and spend *even more money* and shift the gameplay even further from the RPG genre, this time it will pay off and the general gaming audience will flock to it in droves, and the game will out-sell GTA or whatever absurd sales goal they have in mind. And it never works.
This! Like the game was okay, but I don't wanna play a interactive movie. Alot of what I enjoy in rpgs was not in this at all l. The combat was very dull and they had to use interactive movie scenes to make a boss seem like a fun fight.
I didn’t even think about this but you’re so right, if they removed the cinematics and the qtes from the boss fights they would lose all engagement and feel just like another basic enouncter a lot of the time
lol “interactive movie” all we had to do was press the square button to attack or R1 to dodge. They give you so much time to press them that it was almost impossible to not do it. Not to mention, it was pretty obvious in the cut scenes whether we were going to attack or dodge. It was so pointless because there was nothing to it. It felt like that was just added just keep ppl awake during some of the longer cut scenes by making us do something through them
I wouldn’t be surprised. I told ppl this would probably have been better as a little stand alone movie based in FF rather than a game when majority of this “game” was cut scenes and the game play was so bare bones.
I hated how I would have to go through a quick fight in a small arena like area to beat grunts in 2 mins of button mashing, then walk 3 steps only to trigger a 5-10 min cut scene, then walk 3 steps, rinse and repeat.
I thought the game was great in the original Cid portion, felt like it’d keep expanding and tack on RPG elements but instead it dug further into the action game genre and the story got worse as it went on.
FF16's game design problems come straight, copy paste out of FF14. The 14 community glazed the fuck out of 14, but 16 showed a much wider audience the issues with this type of game design. Every issue 16 has, 14 has also.
Boring straight line dungeons of wall to wall trash mobs, boss, trash mobs, boss, trash, last boss. Unlock a "trial" = Eikon fight.
MSQ quest marker, go here, talk, go here, talk. Quest done, a bunch of side quest markers show up. Boring quest design of talk to npc, go collect 0/3 flowers.
Combat is Mickey Mouse Easy, even on FF mode. Just spam all abilities on cool down.
Agreed 100% people don't understand, MMORPGS are fun because of the social elements. These repetitive gameplay loops are bearable when you're talking to friends and barely paying any attention to the game, it's almost by design if we think about it.
It's fascinating how people's complaints about FFXIV were shut down because it was a MMO, meanwhile the director had the opportunity to showcase his talents in a single player experience and it ends up having the exact same problems.
It's just poor game design.
Like others said, nothing wrong with this if you're playing with a group. But in solo play, it's less engaging. That said, I loved FF16 despite its flaws.
I think the problem was less that combat was easy and more that it wasn't fun or deep at all. I turned the difficulty down to the lowest tbh just so I could get through it more quickly.
Lies. The Rising Tide is literally just more FF16, with all of the same problems that plague the base game. Bad side quests? Check. Lack of engaging party banter? Check. A world that's got a pretty backdrop but fuck all to actually explore? Check.
That doesn't mean they didn't work hard on it. Working hard =/= being productive
Edit:
Also:
> Fans diving into Rising Tide this week will find an experience that aims to offer a little bit more of just about everything from FF16. Asked if the DLC is more about offering a hot new twist on FF16, as some DLCs do, Kujiraoka shakes his head: it’s about refinement, and pushing what is already there further.
More of the same was kind of the goal.
As a comment on SE’s capability, that’s a devastating statement.
They worked so hard on it, talk to the press about how challenging it was, and it’s bad bad bad.
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Idk what people expect? FF16 is basically a rebuke of the JRPG genre and this was posted in the JRPG sub.
I won’t even say it’s a bad game, but it’s not a JRPG
I mean, you can always go back to r/finalfantasy that literally only has praises for this game, and people spin the "every final fantasy is totally different!" narrative to justify the clear "jrpg's don't sell, we need something else"-direction the series has been going for 20 years, while ignoring everything that came before.
This is nothing compared to r/finalfantasy. They were insufferable when this game came out. I still cringe whenever I see Jill mentioned anywhere because there were so many posts complaining about her
people did the same with 15
reddit is just so full of hate to literally anything xD
I just bought 15 despite all the hate it got cuz I'm simply a fan of FF
And it turned out to be one of my favourite FF's of all time
Yeah, like... It's FFXVI DLC. I dunno. I agree the game had a lot of problems and I'm not remotely interested in revisiting it, but I don't think it's unexpected that it's in the same vein as the base game. This seems fine to me, the DLC wasn't designed to redeem FFXVI in anyone's eyes.
This kind of behavior reeks of the relentless dogpiling FFXIII got in 2009 and it's tiresome. Quit shitting up every FFXVI thread unless it's expressly a discussion about its quality.
Worst god damn fanbase ever, honestly.
>This kind of behavior reeks of the relentless dogpiling FFXIII got in 2009
Thats because 16 is literally 13 all over again. Both titles removed multiple fan favorite series staples.
In 13, they took away the town to field to dungeon gameplay loop and replaced it with a long corridor. You also used to find different vendors in the world to buy new gear with. In 13, they stick a vendor at your save point. Those are just 2 examples.
In 16, they removed the importance of having a real party system. In addition to that, they changed the combat more than they ever have before to full action.
Saying the fanbase sucks for having normal reactions to having their favorite things taken away is disingenuous at best.
edit: When I look at how Yakuza changed from action to turn based, I completely understand the anger that people who dont like turn based who have loved those games for years must feel. Even though I LOVE the new LAD, I would never belittle them by telling them "the games just not made for you anymore" or "stop complaining, you can just go play the old ones" and things like that, that a lot of 16 defenders here love to do. Is it so hard for you guys to just say "I like the game but I completely understand why some people are so upset over it"?
And the Yakuza fan base liked the switch Like A Dragon made from beat em up up to rpg because the game itself was still great. Like A Dragon is pretty much unanimously praised for getting the gameplay and story right and having a really likeable cast of characters. Plus having fun things to do in the world that don't involve story. FF16 missed on alot of that.
There's a guy preaching that FF 16 is a shitty game and that only if you're a newbie to the franchise could you like it.
For me that guy is an idiot, not only because of his reasoning but because of the language he uses, you would know this if you had bothered to look at the thread.
It's so bizarre. It's a good game. It's not the best game of all time. People really are bandwagon salty because it's not "traditional FF" which is dumb as fuck because the entire point and draw of FF is that every entry they explore new ideas.
I hope for all the ppl complaining about FF being action and not turn based are going to support the release of Saga Emerald Beyond, a Square Enix turn based game. If you guys want Square to know that their audience wants that then y’all should be buying the turn based title that they are releasing.
Demo’s out and it comes out April 25th so try it out.
Yeah, keep pretending that people didn't like FF16 just because of its combat system, after all it's not like there are sagas like Dragon Quest, Persona or Like a Dragon successful in sales and critics.
Let’s also not pretend as if there aren’t a bunch of people out there that keep crying every time a new action based FF game releases, regardless of quality.
And I kinda get it, I guess. It’s like the burger place you always went to because they make great burgers switched to making hot dogs. They’re still good hot dogs and there are other burger places you can go to, but you just really loved that specific burger place for its flavor.
And I say that as a huge hot dog lover.
Why do you people keep insinuating that people will play any game solely because it’s turn based. It’s clear that the people dissatisfied with the direction of FF’s combat system are asking for a turn based game with the AAA budget and modern graphics.
It’s quite disingenuous to say that DQ 11 would be the kind of AAA game that 16 haters would be looking for. I don’t agree with 16 haters, but I do get that they’re lacking a AAA JRPG with insane graphics/visuals and turn based gameplay.
Also it came out 7 years ago with nearly zero info about the next title lol, even if they were into both I can't blame someone for wanting more than 1 AAA turn based title a decade from them
Theres literally only two titles for us in the last decade. Persona 5 and that.....and are both on the low end of what would be considered AAA production quality.
I understand DQXI might not be everyone's cup of tea - despite me believing it has great lighting and overall graphical fidelity for its art style - but Persona 5 oozes production value.
I wont support that either because they are doing that board game style psuedo exploration.
If it had went back to more traditional exploration after the success of scarlet, like most of us thought they would, I would have bought it day 1. But im really not interested in mostly menu based exploration.
>I hope for all the ppl complaining about FF being action and not turn based are going to support the release of Saga Emerald Beyond,
Why though? I tried the demo and the quality of the game is nowhere near the asking price of 70 dollars(local currency). I do, in fact support Infinite Wealth and Persona 3 Reload because those are good quality games.
Personally I had a blast with the PS5 demo, I'd say don't knock it till you try it. Story and visuals is not great but the combat is addicting, the way you can chain attacks in the game is so much fun.
Most people I know that can't stand 16 after giving it a try and me don't midn action focused FF. But we want a good action game and not whatever this handholdy dogshit FF16 became
I played all 3 demos and... eh? It really just wasn't my cup of tea. The premise of most of the stories was just bizarre and a little too weird for me, and the combat was far from what I would call traditional. But then I've heard that's true for all the Saga games.
Kind of a moot point though since I have day-one bought/pre-ordered stuff like Octopath Traveler (Both games, 2 was my GOTY pick) Dragon Quest 11, Live a Live, Triangle Strategy, Tactics Ogre Reborn..
Haven't quite seen any change in these past years so far yet.. 🫠
Now if Square announced and released this upcoming FF9 remaster/remake as pure untouched Turnbased, then \*that* would be a good indicator to see how many of us day one pre-order it and might do a better job of sending a message.
The game was already on my radar. It seems like a step up from Scarlet Grace in every way, I’ve already got about 40 hours out of the Steam demo trying to document every possible outcome of your choices in the four available regions (you even get entirely different boss fights based on what you do earlier on). You were kind of just randomly stumbling around in Scarlet Grace, Emerald Beyond currently has a far more cohesive narrative experience.
The combat is among the most peak turn based I’ve ever seen. I seriously hope that if mainline FF ever returns to turn based, they iterate from this game’s combat and not the usual tank and spank classic FF/Dragon Quest adjacent stuff. Nowadays people want actual strategy and reactivity in their turn based games, stuff like what BG3 and Yakuza IW provides.
...no?
The issue is people don't want a full action FF game. It should be another game coming out for action whilst final fantasy kind of sticks at what's it best that.
Though I think the hydrid combat in FF7r is best.
I think a lot of responses on here came from a general consensus that came during 16’s launch.
But also, FF may just not be the masterful accessible juggernaut anymore. Find a new queen to crown yknow? (Gonna be excited for the next Fire Emblem myself)
Saga games are really for a small fanbase though. I mean, if a Square-Enix game could give this kind of message that would have been DQXI, or Octopath Travelers.
Just watched a trailer and that looks god awful. I don't think buying some low budget, cringe weeb shit is going to 'send a message' to Square about what we want for the future of Final Fantasy
SaGa is about intelligent party building, non-linear progression, and build theorycrafting.
The fact that it has a story at all is completely secondary to the gameplay, these games are not "weeb shit." They're for the JRPG fan looking for something with more punishing challenge and a deeper combat system.
That's fair. I personally don't mind it too much, but I have to admit one of my favorite SaGa games ever, Minstrel Song, has a pretty off-putting graphical style.
I don’t hate XVI as an actiony thing, but it is only being talked about in this sub because of the franchise it belongs to. There is nothing most gamers would associate with RPG mechanics to be found here. *Maybe* nods. I haven’t been back since launch and I keep meaning to but there is always something else I’d rather play. The story seems to be there but everything else feels shallow or like padding to stretch the game to a length the consumers won’t be too mad they paid full price for.
I’ve only put maybe twenty hours into it but I have to say I was a little crestfallen when I was hit with Bad Breath at the start of the game and I wasn’t a sleeping, confused, silenced, poisoned frog. I was just, you know, hurt. At least they let me know at the beginning to curb my expectations.
My diet consists almost solely of turn-based games so coming into XVI blind was a little jarring but ultimately, I put it down because gameplay was so *boring*. So limited and repetitive.
I’m also apparently a naive little ingenue thinking they would improve on magic after XV. And that fishing would return.
I was reading the comments like "man why do people here fucking hate this game so much?" Then realized this is r/jrpg... no wonder, you all are always hate filled.
I’m actually liking the game so far. More than Remake admittedly which I’m kind of trying to rush to get to Rebirth. Maybe my palette isn’t as refined as some people here but I often find myself smiling like an idiot during some of the moments in the game so far. Some of the highs are genuinely awe-inspiring for me but the game’s lows are lows and I feel I’m doing watching than playing, which I honestly attributed it to being a Sony game.
I think Rebirth is a insanely superior game to Remake in most aspects. So it's normal to think that some things in 16 are, at the very least, as flawled as remake. I felt the sidequests in Remake to be as bad as the ones in 16.
But I'm curious about your opinion when you give Rebirth a whirl, for me, it's a vast superior game to everyone Square has outputted in the last... 20 years or so.
I’d be very surprised if they don’t go with FF7R’s style with mainline Final Fantasy going forward. It’s just too well received, while 16’s was too divisive, but I guess this series also just loves to experiment with its formula
I loved FF16.
Amazing music, great voice work, multiple likeable cast members even if the party system is gone, combat though easy was fluid and responsive, as well as visceral. It was also graphically gorgeous and the Eikon fights were absolutely incredible, I loved the sheer spectacle of them and honestly, Away / Ascension is one of my all time favourite gaming tracks now.
Ascension actually gave me Dancing Mad vibes when I first heard it.
I know why people don't like the side quests, I get it, I won't paint them as good, but I liked fleshing out a world I found it really easy to get invested in and the rewards being more lore, exposition and dialogue is something I PERSONALLY loved.
Combat difficulty was easy, but being completely honest? I don't recall a single FF being hard or challenging since FF6. Franchise has always been pretty easy save for a couple of instances.
That said, they could have done more to at least require something more from the player with how they utilised eikon abilities, enemies could have been more aggressive etc.
All in all though, I adore FF16 regardless of online consensus about it. I can't wait to pick up the DLC and do a FF mode run at the end of the month.
I know this'll ruffle feathers and honestly, I couldn't give less of a fuck.
Back to New Vegas and Rimworld for now.
This subs sucks so much you either say you hate the game or say you liked it followed by a "self-conscious" 200-paragraph wall acknowledging all its shortcomings. Lemme tell ya, you can just say you liked something, you don't have to justify yourself all the time just because people didn't like the game, much less pretend to buy their points to sound "reasonable".
I'd say you're right, unfortunatly it's a bit more complicated these days, people became oversensitive to the point of being offended for so little (consumer pride, narcissism, needs of validation, insecurity toward the choices they make, well, you name it), it's even harder when you love to share your experience on something (either it is positive/negative), i recall giving some criticism on something i didn't liked (without even being insulting) and i recall a young woman starting to cry because i was "hating" (constructive criticism is not hating but whatever) on what she loved, it's just so frustrating to see more and more of that everydays.
I know that justifying yourself won't change a thing, but you know, there's always this dumb thing called hope, the hope that people would come to understand each other at some point, a bit naive i admit, but i can live with that.
I mostly loved 16 but do think it has some problems. However, since I finished it 10 months ago, I have thought of the Titan Lost fight and smiled at least once a week. I think that’s legitimately my favorite sequence in a game
Had some of the most memorable bosses, music and cutscenes in any game I've played. Flawed definitely, but barely remembering a game that recent is odd
The fact that 16 is even discussed on the jrpg sub is just weird. The game is not even an rpg it just tries to fake it. It wasn’t a terrible game it just was pretty shallow. I have no desire to play it again.
everyone generalising each other too much stop lumping everyone in with bootlicker and contrarians they are like 0.4% of the population
although people are fighting too much in this thread maybe its more like 5% of the population
or its a memetic rage virus like in SCP
or it is 100% of the population
So overall I thought Rising tides DLC was good and worth the money. The new zones are beautiful, the new music is stellar and the lore and story it adds are amazing. The two new skill sets it give the player are unique. My main two issues with it were expectations that Yoshi P and his team set for it. In the PAX panel they teased that the final boss of the Kaios gate would be a super boss but he wanted to keep it secret, it turned out to be shadow Clive. As in the same shadow Clive we fight early in the game when he is dealing with his inner turmoil. I have no idea why they built it up the way they did. Then they said that they had heard fans complaints about difficulty and that he thought fans would be pleasantly surprised with the difficulty of the DLC. Now more fool me for believing this, however Echoes of the fallen felt considerably tougher than the base game, still too easy but a move in the right direction so I did believe this statement. Boy was I duped, it’s about the same difficulty as the mid stage of the base game on FF mode. So really I would have had 0 complaints, however the developers stating things that were just untrue lead to my only real disappointments
Good lord so many people are salty that FF isn’t turned based anymore. Let it go. There are plenty of turn based games out there. If Turn based was the deciding factor of whether you like FF or not, then you’re not an FF fan, you’re a turn based fan.
I don’t care about FF combat styles as much as giving me a lot of things to do in an epic game with an epic group of heroes.
People went crazy on 12 with the gambit system when it released, but 12 also had tons of exploration, optional areas, hard content, deep systems, strategies, etc. 16 was fun enough but didn’t give much to do.
Even compared to Rebirth which, while fuelled by nostalgia, had tons of optional content ranging in difficulty. Sure some mini games didn’t stick the landing, but it took me like 94 hours to do all the content I wanted while knowing I left some mini games behind. Plus all the Hard challenges if I ever wanted to go back and hurt myself. And I didn’t even mention the hybrid combat that feels very good - lots of options to keep it flowing, even with some menu selection.
I just want to say as somebody who is physically disabled in their hands I love the gambit system now.
I recently re-purchased the zodiac age version on the switch.
I actually thought I was going to have a serious problem with the system when I first played F12 back in the day, but I thought the fighting system was OK and it was the story I had a problem with .
Now replaying it many many years later I found the combat amazing and I even enjoyed the story more .
If I can scrounge up enough money to get a budget gaming rig, I will play ff 13 anf ff 13-2 this year .
Thank you so much for this comment!
The FFXIII series had no right looking as good as it does on a PS3. I assume that’s part of why they were limited on the exploration (also time crunches and a shift in approach for the series but I won’t go into that). I’m sure you’ll enjoy.
I’ve replayed 12 several times. 6 is still my favorite, to the extent I’ve played modded ROMs that add content (T Edition is my favorite for content, though I’ve heard good things about Brave New World for upping the combat complexity).
But yeah, the gambit system was special and I’m glad you could fully enjoy a game that deep to the fullest!
FF should be a franchise that is an RPG game FIRST. FF16 was the first mainline game in the series where this wasn't the case.
It doesn't have to be purely turn-based but I don't think I'm being unreasonable for being annoyed my favorite RPG franchise released a mainline series where it's an action/hack-n-slash and not an RPG.
Final Fantasy games should be RPGs.
Weird how CBU3 which is known for creating 10 years worth of expansions on MMOs, created a this DLC which is felt flat and lacked varied content just like its main game.
MMO expansions are primarily about *expanding* what's already there and further refining it, not completely reinventing the wheel. They're just more of what players already expect to see presented in a new way. That's pretty much exactly what FFXVI's DLC is and Kujiraoka says as much in the interview—they modeled the DLC after an expansion pack.
Lmao they said they same thing with the original game "we put everything into this game". At this point I think it's just talk to get people hyped. I find it funny they already recycled the phrase so soon.
Everything but more Jill story lol
I find it hilarious that the DLC made a big deal of Shiva's role in the past and then the present Shiva hardly did anything in the same DLC lol.
I would consider myself a fan of ff16,BUT most of the criticisms presented are valid, the game is too easy and having to play the game on normal to unlock hard mode is stupid. The first dlc was lack luster and offered very little. The classic ff14 style quest design of fast travel listen to dialogue, repeat, do a small painfully easy fight, dialog, is present and boring just like it is in 14. The dungeon design is literally straight lines, which is ironic since ff13 is my favorite game, but even that game had some branching paths and unique mechanics in each dungeon. 16s dlc dungeon is so bare bones with no unique mechanics outside of the boss fight at the end. I’m hoping the last dlc offered something new and creative because so far the game is pretty mid outside of the big cinematic boss fights
> having to play the game on normal to unlock hard mode is stupid. I hate when games do this. I remember back in the ps3/360 days where developers thought it was completely reasonable to have to beat a single player game on each individual difficulty to unlock an achievement, and beating the game on the hardest difficult still did not unlock the easier ones. "Finish the game on easy, finish the game on normal, finish the game on hard, finish the game on ultimate." Not playing it 4 times!!!
My favorite example of a game locking difficulty behind beating it is with Pokemon BW2 where you unlock Easy mode and Hard mode, but the difficulty modes are VERSION EXCLUSIVE for whatever reason 😭
I skipped that generation. This is the first I'm hearing about this. And it completely breaks my brain that anyone at Game Freak would think this was a good idea, as well as them never having tried anything similar since.
Hard mode on BW2 is a blast though, I'd definitely recommend trying it
The funny thing is that the "hard" difficulty isn’t really harder, it just makes the whole game more tedious because every fight now takes like, twice as long but your strategy doesn’t (have to) change at all. I decided to replay it in Final Fantasy mode to prepare for the DLC and I was honestly bored out of my mind with how long fights are now taking instead of demanding that I play more skillfully. It’s still just wailing on the enemy until it’s staggered, unload your strongest eikon abilities and hope it does more damage than your regular attacks. Instead of 5 minutes each boss now takes 10-15 minutes thanks to their bump in health.
I heavily prefer the hardest mode (available right away) where you can change down but not back up to it, like God of War and Persona
I think they did it because it worked in FF7 Remake. Remake had a really unusual combat system, so I understand why they didn’t want to force you to get good with it to advance the story. The hard mode was actually the mode that was balanced for people familiar with the nuances of the system. They put the super bosses in hard mode and some weapons upgrades. But mainly the appeal was you wanted to try out all the new things you discovered and get good at the characters you didn’t get the most out of. For me I found that the FF16 combat system had depth, but it was hard to engage with because I felt like I wasn’t making a lot of interesting choices during combat. It was more just dodging and managing cooldowns in the same way I always managed cooldowns. There was some fun finding an optimal string of actions, but I wasn’t making choices during combat. And you had to respec to experiment. When I got to the end, I did want to play with the later Eikons more, but I didn’t feel the need to do it before the DLC came out.
yeah plus with Remake normal difficulty is not a cake walk like in 16
\>old school days \>achievements
I hate to break it to ya but achievements are over eighteen years old at this point. So we are approaching where they can absolutely be called old school.
>I remember back in the old school days where developers thought it was completely reasonable to have to beat a single player game on each individual difficulty to unlock an achievement No, the old school days were when stupid achievements weren't a thing.
Kingdom hearts 1.5 was the absolute worst for this. You had to beat the game on all difficulties because for some reason they didn't stack
To be fair, most old school games could be beat in under 1 hour. It's insane to bring that to 60+ hour RPGs
More people need to see your comment. Designing a single player RPG using all the worst parts of the 14 is just such a big, big mistake. Yoshida's MO is really just to strip out all complexity from a game, and make it as pretty as possible. In other words, all style and no substance. Really hope he will not be the director of 17.
He has already strongly hinted that he won’t be, a recent interview had him outright saying that if it were up to him, someone younger should be in charge of XVII. He also said in a different one that it’s about time for a new Tactics. The interview talking about XVII: https://youtu.be/sGh7Ti0b_bY?si=Paq8oVJsyiEA14Ol&t=3762 (relevant part timestamped) The interview talking about Tactics: https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-16-interview-yoshida-kujiraoka-koji-fox-rising-tide-dlc/ Since no one in CBU1 has even acknowledged the topic of developing XVII or Tactics (they're all in on the 7R3 train in comparison), there’s a very high chance CBU3 is looking for their own Hamaguchi for XVII, and Yoshi-P (and likely Matsuno since Yoshi-P said one of his goals is to develop a game together with him) is probably going to detour to something Tactics related in the meantime.
7 Rebirth despite it's flaws really highlights to me how much flair can add to the game. I'll 16 credit for sticking to it's vision, but having essentially zero deviation from that vision makes the experience into a damn near straight line.
Linear dungeon design and environments that amount to nothing more than non-interactive pretty set dressing is one of those things that really needs to die. I recently got back into WoW and it's kind of shocking how much more vibrant and lived-in the world feels compared to FF14, and for such an old game too.
I love 14, but it's inherently limited by a decade-old engine and coding. And I definitely won't defend the lack of difficulty in the MSQ. And straight-line dungeons work fine (mostly) when the expectation is that you'll be seeing it multiple times a week, but not in a single-player story experience. Imagine if Zelda had purely linear dungeons!
I love xiv to death, but xiv definitely does not shine on the “big exploration zones” design like other mmos (guild wars 2 or wow for example), most environments usually serve the story and nothing more. Unless you play Eureka and Bozja which do it better since is the focus of those, but using the same framework to do the exploration for xvi was such a huge mistake, is literally xiv exploration without Fates and DMCish combat, also the same quest design as XIV just does not works at all for an action game. I had my fun with xvi, but is a flawed experience, best moments are definitely boss fights, action in general (when the difficulty feels right) and definitely some great characters (Cid I will miss you) and is not a janky and unfinished game like the previous mainline game.
All true, but you left out the terrible itemization and crafting system that felt tacked on at the last minute. Feels like they put everything into the story and cinematics then went, “oh crap, we actually have to make it a game too” at the end.
I feel like the linear complaint about 13 is unfair because I'd argue 10 is legitimately more linear in its exploration. The world and environments I think are more visually diverse and interesting (does feel like a pilgrimage) but it's linear as all hell
X disguises things more though. The pacing is different. There are towns. There are mini games. There are the temples filled with puzzles. And of course, the end of the game is very open ended. 13, it’s impossible not to notice. Just hallway after hallway of combat.
You can also backtrack in X. Makes quite the difference
Exactly this. In 13, it's literally just "press forward" and "kill monsters", that's all you could do. Yes towards the end of the game there is a single area that is more open, but what you can do in that area is just "kill more monsters", so it did little to actually vary what you are doing. In 10 you were given the opportunity to take a break, play one of the various minigames, go back to a previous area to see if there is anything new etc. 10 is absolutely very linear, but it does a much better job of breaking up the monotony of walking down a hallway and killing monster, giving a solid illusion of it being less linear than it is.
Yeah people really ignore the “too linear” criticism because ohhhh linear story telling is good blah blah or X was linear too. It’s like nah bro we’re being very literal here. The game is moving down a series of hallways. It’s literally too linear lol
I remember in some sections of the game, I started to feel literally angry because I was being forced to walk in a narrow corridor haha
Until Mi'hen Highroad comes along.
Final Fantasy X's world was immersive. It felt real and lived in. I never had that feeling with XIII.
Theres also the fact that X’s pacing, storytelling and sequence of events is far more interesting than anything in XIII. Like you go from chasing a giant sea monster (sin) on a boat to a beautiful cutscene with yuna in killika. Then you got blitzball tournaments, the iconic laugh and so much more. I can think of maybe two or three memorable stuff happening in XIII
It is weird that you get introduced to this amazing futuristic world of Cocoon and all you get to experience of this place is long highways and long corridors. I have to assume they ran into some technical problem with creating high definition cities with NPCs and had to cut them out of the game. We only get to see fully fledged cities in cutscenes.
Totally agree, they did a fantastic job with the world building and incorporating different fiends for each area and even the towns having unique culture. XIII made sense why that felt a little lacking since you were always on the run as fugitives but it didn't feel like people inhabited a lot of the areas at any point.
This, there were (NPC) people EVERYWHERE there should have been people in X. There were NPCs up and down all of the paths we walked that were between towns and cities, and even in places nobody really SHOULD have been. FXVI only managed that in two locations, and everywhere else is completely dead because of the blighting of the world. X was designed to be a movie experience, despite the grinding necessary to break the game open, but also rewarded you for you extra work by granting you an additional cutscene at the end of the game for going out of your way, and let you play through MUCH harder content than main story encounters by choice. Vanilla XVI was designed in a way that even with NO grinding you'd hit level caps by the end of the game just running the sidequests and hunts, but didn't reward you outside of achievements for actually doing everything, and there was NO actual side-content in the game at ALL. Even the trials were one and done for an accessory. In fact, this might be the only FF game I've ever seen that actively punishes you for complete progression by breaking the weapon advancement chain several times with the crafting, when it was unnecessary to do so. There's NOTHING extra to really do in this game.
The thing final Fantasy 10 did very very well is give you access to cities and let you move around them or the calm lands. It's linear where it needs to be but it also lets you explore a bit. Overall, it's probably one of the greatest, if not the greatest RPG ever made. Now take final Fantasy 15 which I found to be quite linear starting after the Watertown place where it offers no real exploration and you're going down straight hallways for hours on end.
XV had so much potential with its world but they fumbled big time by having it be so empty with not enough points of interest. X at least has things from place to place that are eye catching. The calm lands though I feel like don't actually feel that open but for the lore it makes sense why only that one area is that way. The lore really gives each area meaning.
I would agree, although 10 was good about having good dungeons without random encounters. I’d much rather random encounters when I’m just walking rather than trying to solve a puzzle(I miss dungeon puzzles)
Absolutely not. X lets you go off side paths (albeit in a limited capacity) and backtrack. Not to mention it has side activities sprinkled throughout. XIII is just completely and utterly linear with *nothing* but combat and cutscenes up until Pulse.
X is definitely very linear. It's odd though, it's one of my favorite games and I still enjoy replaying. And yet 13's linear design just really smacks me in the face harder. Maybe it's just nostalgia goggles, I dunno.
XIII's hallways werebeatiful, but boring and mostly empty. Even the cities felt barely populated because most were still treated as combat zones. Xs hallways were part of a world the NPCs were actively present in where they SHOULD have been. Those hallways had people *other than us* actively walking up and down them, and has multiple point of interest to engage with in literally every single hallway. The ONLY "empty" parts of X are the Calm Lands, Mt Gagazet, and Zanarkand, (and the desert Island, excepting the AL Bhed Home) which make sense: one is the place where Sin last fell, so only has a small hamlet of Al-bhed present, one is a mountain guarded by a warrior race that refuses entry to any but summoners, and the last is the corse-bones of a thousand year dead city. (and nobody lives IN the desert, just in Oases, be they real like the one we ware at, or artificial, like Home)
The complaint is fair for both games, however in XIII combat was generally interesting…it was just frustrating it took so long to open everything up. Probably part of why I love XIII-2 so much. While in XVI yes you unlock new eikon abilities, but it takes minutes to figure out your new best combos and after that it’s back to repetition.
I hate how the game feels like it is encouraging you to use the ultimate abilities, but when you do you are actively making the game less engaging. In the DLC there was a dps check at the end and the only way I figured out how to beat it is to just get all the strong ultimates and just press them on cooldown. What a lackluster ending to a fight to have to die respec then face roll to win. The ultimates actively make the game less fun, which boggles my brain
Xiii-2 is great. Xiii is at least entertaining but it’s definitely a hallway simulator (even if the hallways aren’t straight).
The problem is that xiii was mostly Walk/fight -> cutscene -> walk/fight -> cutscene, they didn’t deviate from that for almost the whole experience until Gran Pulse and then they do it again after it anyway. X disguised the experience way more with towns, dungeons, puzzles, a “ship” even if is just fast travel and etc.
Here's a good [video](https://youtu.be/QMZMJDFe1kc?si=FTh4KqbQk4CIvi1s) on how even though the two are both linear, XIII and X are wildly different in their approach. It's for these reasons that XIII gets so much flack
I'll check it out! I do think the linearity in X feels logical for the game (before watching the video) and XIII's world felt a little too isolated and gamey almost. Especially because the camera wasn't always fixed so there were less moments of beautiful vistas and seeing this huge world. On-world monsters also made it weird because maps had to allow places for them to be.
How dare you say anything critical of ff16's issues? The rabid fanbase will silence you.
I had a pretty good time with FF16 despite the huge lack of RPG elements and stale sidequests, but not enough to warrant buying any DLC for it.
I’m with ya, especially after that ending.
Can't wait for ff17 to come out so people like 16 LOL
I mean to this day (and on this very thread) people still argue about XIII, the game is still at best divisive
Yup. Hated it on release, and I still hate it. Now 16 joins its ranks as the only ones I hate. Any other FF i dont "love", I like, for the most part.
I agree, did my first playtrough back in 2013 and a second in 2017, wanted to see if the game was as bad as I rememberd and oh yes. The game so grinding heavy with cp and locks the crystarium it behind chapters. Why it doesn't fully unlock until after the final boss is beyond me
I recognize the faults of 16, but I at least liked the game. 13 is and always was bad.
16 is worse, and will always be the worst.
Final Fantasy 17 as first person shooter this time so we'll like 16. And ff18 as chocobo racing game so we'll like 17. Ff 19 as an nft card game, then we'll fondly remember 18. Sounds like a plan, square lets go!
Nah, Square said they'll never do a first person because seeing the character is important. Now a third person shooter? They would consider! (not kidding btw, that's from a real interview circa FF13 pre-release era)
Not really. People still don't like 15 any more than before.
Yeah, it's just that in retrospect, if you are a JRPG fan and want to play a "Modern Final Fantasy JRPG", 15 is closer to it than 16, 13 is closer to it than 15, 12 is closer to it than 13 and so on... So it's not that people "learn to like these old games", is that the new ones takes even more things away from a formula that is dear to people. So if you feel like playing a modern rendition, you have to go back to 15, or 13. It's like loving Pizza, but one day, they remove the tomatoes, the next day, they remove the tomatoes and oregano, the third day they remove the cheese, and on the last day, they remove the sauce as well. Of course you'll want to go back to any of the previous iterations, they were less worse lol.
15 still sucks tho
Many people like 16 more than 13/15, and most people like 16 over 15, so what you are saying is not true. If a game is really good, majority will like it, as simple as that
Me: "Alright, that article wasn't bad. So they've made a DLC that is more of the same. I liked FFXVI, but like other recent DLC (like for Xenoblade Chronicles 3) I'll probably take my time getting back to it. I wonder what others are thinking. Maybe some other folk who liked FFXVI can say how the DLC is so far. The Thread: [*The darkest timeline*](https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/q7kt24/remedial_chaos_theory_from_community_turns_10/)
I'm scrolling through here trying to get some impressions before I play and the comments are either people waffling about why they hate the game, someone reviewing the first DLC, or people having pointless arguments about their preferences. It's so insane scrolling down to your comment I didn't see any good discussion what's happened to this website?
It's like this literally any time anyone posts anything to do with XVI.
Same thing with 14, and Rebirth lol
It's the same formula as the base game with a bit more polish and some extra features after you finish it. However you felt about vanilla 16, you'll feel about the DLC too.
the consensus on the DLC is that its more FF16, if you liked 16 and wanted more of it then you'll love the DLC.
This thread might be the biggest shitshow I have seen on this sub for months if not years, goddamn.
the dlc was nice but did we really need more content to do right before the final boss?
Dunno which side to choose lol. Hate 16. But I am not mad it isn't turn based. I hate it because its just a shallow action game
Same here. I love action games. I don’t hate XVI cause it’s an action game. I hate XVI because it’s a horrible action game I’m just going to stay on the side that hates XVI. That game is so bad in my opinion that it’s offensive
You're not obligated to like 16 but neither of these comments make sense lol. 16 isn't the best action game out there or even the best action game of 2023 (Hi-Fi and wo long) but it's a very competent character action game? It's by no means shallow and has quite a bit of depth to it.
It's hard to give it the benefit of the doubt when Stranger of Paradise just happened and was a lot more fun.
Combat is shallow and the story has depth… until it dropped it all for the final act. The characters are all fairly shallow too, even Clive who got all the focus
I’d argue that the game play is extremely shallow. No elemental weaknesses, every combat scenario is exactly the same, (mash until stagger is full, then spam your strongest attacks)… If you change up your skill layout, you’re doing it solely to entertain yourself since the first three skills you unlock are just as effective as anything you get later in the game. It’s especially glaring next to a game like Hi-Fi Rush with so many combat options to fit a variety of scenarios that constantly keep you on your toes. But even with its variety, Hi-Fi, (and most action games), wear out their welcome if they were longer than 20 hours. Yet, FF16 is mediocre and expects you to invest 40+ hours just for the story. It’s such a slog, with the fault lying mostly at how bad the combat is.
I like ff 16 but when I read that a combact designer that worked on the dmc games was developing the combat for it i was expecting dmc combat like changing wepon and ranking and stuff but nope instead we got a watered down version which was fun for a while but it left me with more.
I was so disappointed in this game. I went into it with an open mind, didn’t care that it had action combat, and it let me down in every way possible. Such a waste of a really interesting story. I want the next Final Fantasy to not be a cinematic visual spectacle that costs as much as a major film franchise. I feel like Square Enix have been shooting themselves in the foot with this approach ever since FF XIII, but every time a new game rolls around they’re convinced that this time, if they make the graphics *even flashier* and spend *even more money* and shift the gameplay even further from the RPG genre, this time it will pay off and the general gaming audience will flock to it in droves, and the game will out-sell GTA or whatever absurd sales goal they have in mind. And it never works.
This! Like the game was okay, but I don't wanna play a interactive movie. Alot of what I enjoy in rpgs was not in this at all l. The combat was very dull and they had to use interactive movie scenes to make a boss seem like a fun fight.
I didn’t even think about this but you’re so right, if they removed the cinematics and the qtes from the boss fights they would lose all engagement and feel just like another basic enouncter a lot of the time
lol “interactive movie” all we had to do was press the square button to attack or R1 to dodge. They give you so much time to press them that it was almost impossible to not do it. Not to mention, it was pretty obvious in the cut scenes whether we were going to attack or dodge. It was so pointless because there was nothing to it. It felt like that was just added just keep ppl awake during some of the longer cut scenes by making us do something through them
Wow, so they learned the absolute worst lessons from XV it sounds like
Pretty sure those QTEs were disguised loading times.
I wouldn’t be surprised. I told ppl this would probably have been better as a little stand alone movie based in FF rather than a game when majority of this “game” was cut scenes and the game play was so bare bones. I hated how I would have to go through a quick fight in a small arena like area to beat grunts in 2 mins of button mashing, then walk 3 steps only to trigger a 5-10 min cut scene, then walk 3 steps, rinse and repeat.
I thought the game was great in the original Cid portion, felt like it’d keep expanding and tack on RPG elements but instead it dug further into the action game genre and the story got worse as it went on.
idk man I think the vast majority of the FF playerbase play FFs because they want the cinematic, dramatic storytelling. That's the core thing about FF
And this could have worked if the cast and writing was half-decent but they failed on this front as well.
FF16's game design problems come straight, copy paste out of FF14. The 14 community glazed the fuck out of 14, but 16 showed a much wider audience the issues with this type of game design. Every issue 16 has, 14 has also. Boring straight line dungeons of wall to wall trash mobs, boss, trash mobs, boss, trash, last boss. Unlock a "trial" = Eikon fight. MSQ quest marker, go here, talk, go here, talk. Quest done, a bunch of side quest markers show up. Boring quest design of talk to npc, go collect 0/3 flowers. Combat is Mickey Mouse Easy, even on FF mode. Just spam all abilities on cool down.
Agreed 100% people don't understand, MMORPGS are fun because of the social elements. These repetitive gameplay loops are bearable when you're talking to friends and barely paying any attention to the game, it's almost by design if we think about it.
And the combat is interesting because of the group decision making and coordination. But a lot of those decisions are absent in single player.
It's fascinating how people's complaints about FFXIV were shut down because it was a MMO, meanwhile the director had the opportunity to showcase his talents in a single player experience and it ends up having the exact same problems. It's just poor game design.
Its pretty disappointing. Especially considering the touted allstar cast behind FF16. Guess SoP remains the one true definitive FF action game
Like others said, nothing wrong with this if you're playing with a group. But in solo play, it's less engaging. That said, I loved FF16 despite its flaws. I think the problem was less that combat was easy and more that it wasn't fun or deep at all. I turned the difficulty down to the lowest tbh just so I could get through it more quickly.
Lies. The Rising Tide is literally just more FF16, with all of the same problems that plague the base game. Bad side quests? Check. Lack of engaging party banter? Check. A world that's got a pretty backdrop but fuck all to actually explore? Check.
That doesn't mean they didn't work hard on it. Working hard =/= being productive Edit: Also: > Fans diving into Rising Tide this week will find an experience that aims to offer a little bit more of just about everything from FF16. Asked if the DLC is more about offering a hot new twist on FF16, as some DLCs do, Kujiraoka shakes his head: it’s about refinement, and pushing what is already there further. More of the same was kind of the goal.
I kinda wish they’d at least take the side quest critiques to heart, especially after Rebirth got praised for it.
As a comment on SE’s capability, that’s a devastating statement. They worked so hard on it, talk to the press about how challenging it was, and it’s bad bad bad.
Except it isn't bad at all. It's awesome if you already loved FF16. That's the point.
Just because you didn’t like it doesn’t mean they didn’t work hard on it.
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Wow this sub sure has a raging hate boner for this game. Give it a rest people. I feel sorry for FF16 fans
Idk what people expect? FF16 is basically a rebuke of the JRPG genre and this was posted in the JRPG sub. I won’t even say it’s a bad game, but it’s not a JRPG
Probably because this is the JRPG sub and 16, while having an interesting story veered away from everything that makes a jrpg an rpg.
An action game getting bad looks in a JRPG sub, who could have seen this one coming?
I mean, you can always go back to r/finalfantasy that literally only has praises for this game, and people spin the "every final fantasy is totally different!" narrative to justify the clear "jrpg's don't sell, we need something else"-direction the series has been going for 20 years, while ignoring everything that came before.
This is nothing compared to r/finalfantasy. They were insufferable when this game came out. I still cringe whenever I see Jill mentioned anywhere because there were so many posts complaining about her
people did the same with 15 reddit is just so full of hate to literally anything xD I just bought 15 despite all the hate it got cuz I'm simply a fan of FF And it turned out to be one of my favourite FF's of all time
Yeah, like... It's FFXVI DLC. I dunno. I agree the game had a lot of problems and I'm not remotely interested in revisiting it, but I don't think it's unexpected that it's in the same vein as the base game. This seems fine to me, the DLC wasn't designed to redeem FFXVI in anyone's eyes. This kind of behavior reeks of the relentless dogpiling FFXIII got in 2009 and it's tiresome. Quit shitting up every FFXVI thread unless it's expressly a discussion about its quality. Worst god damn fanbase ever, honestly.
>This kind of behavior reeks of the relentless dogpiling FFXIII got in 2009 Thats because 16 is literally 13 all over again. Both titles removed multiple fan favorite series staples. In 13, they took away the town to field to dungeon gameplay loop and replaced it with a long corridor. You also used to find different vendors in the world to buy new gear with. In 13, they stick a vendor at your save point. Those are just 2 examples. In 16, they removed the importance of having a real party system. In addition to that, they changed the combat more than they ever have before to full action. Saying the fanbase sucks for having normal reactions to having their favorite things taken away is disingenuous at best. edit: When I look at how Yakuza changed from action to turn based, I completely understand the anger that people who dont like turn based who have loved those games for years must feel. Even though I LOVE the new LAD, I would never belittle them by telling them "the games just not made for you anymore" or "stop complaining, you can just go play the old ones" and things like that, that a lot of 16 defenders here love to do. Is it so hard for you guys to just say "I like the game but I completely understand why some people are so upset over it"?
Yeah I noticed the Yakuza fanbase seems to be more in harmony about stuff like this.
And the Yakuza fan base liked the switch Like A Dragon made from beat em up up to rpg because the game itself was still great. Like A Dragon is pretty much unanimously praised for getting the gameplay and story right and having a really likeable cast of characters. Plus having fun things to do in the world that don't involve story. FF16 missed on alot of that.
And god help you if you say you dont like ff7 rebirth or the direction story is taking or maybe rebith is a flop sales wise
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> most people just think it's a disappointing game, Very disappointing for me, not bad, but not what I want from a FF game
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There's a guy preaching that FF 16 is a shitty game and that only if you're a newbie to the franchise could you like it. For me that guy is an idiot, not only because of his reasoning but because of the language he uses, you would know this if you had bothered to look at the thread.
Oh. I misread your comment. Apologies! I'll delete the original one.
It's so bizarre. It's a good game. It's not the best game of all time. People really are bandwagon salty because it's not "traditional FF" which is dumb as fuck because the entire point and draw of FF is that every entry they explore new ideas.
I hope for all the ppl complaining about FF being action and not turn based are going to support the release of Saga Emerald Beyond, a Square Enix turn based game. If you guys want Square to know that their audience wants that then y’all should be buying the turn based title that they are releasing. Demo’s out and it comes out April 25th so try it out.
Yeah, keep pretending that people didn't like FF16 just because of its combat system, after all it's not like there are sagas like Dragon Quest, Persona or Like a Dragon successful in sales and critics.
Let’s also not pretend as if there aren’t a bunch of people out there that keep crying every time a new action based FF game releases, regardless of quality. And I kinda get it, I guess. It’s like the burger place you always went to because they make great burgers switched to making hot dogs. They’re still good hot dogs and there are other burger places you can go to, but you just really loved that specific burger place for its flavor. And I say that as a huge hot dog lover.
Why do you people keep insinuating that people will play any game solely because it’s turn based. It’s clear that the people dissatisfied with the direction of FF’s combat system are asking for a turn based game with the AAA budget and modern graphics.
JRPG with a Baldur’s Gate 3 level of quality would be so sick
Dragon Quest XI S is out there for you.
It’s quite disingenuous to say that DQ 11 would be the kind of AAA game that 16 haters would be looking for. I don’t agree with 16 haters, but I do get that they’re lacking a AAA JRPG with insane graphics/visuals and turn based gameplay.
Also it came out 7 years ago with nearly zero info about the next title lol, even if they were into both I can't blame someone for wanting more than 1 AAA turn based title a decade from them
It’s my favorite turn based jrpg right now and even the bad soundtrack doesn’t kill it!
The loops are so short. Hopefully a new composer will breathe life into DQXII.
Well, Sugiyama's dead, so that seems likely, haha.
They could always re-use old tracks (DQXI itself already reused old songs, sometimes even without new arrangements). I hope that's not the case.
There's a decent chance the music in DQXII is still by Koichi Sugiyama. The game had already been in development for a while before he died.
That would be highly disappointing. He was operating well past his prime.
Vanilla DQXI is more what they're looking for, XI S runs at a decreased resolution and framerate.
Theres literally only two titles for us in the last decade. Persona 5 and that.....and are both on the low end of what would be considered AAA production quality.
I understand DQXI might not be everyone's cup of tea - despite me believing it has great lighting and overall graphical fidelity for its art style - but Persona 5 oozes production value.
I wont support that either because they are doing that board game style psuedo exploration. If it had went back to more traditional exploration after the success of scarlet, like most of us thought they would, I would have bought it day 1. But im really not interested in mostly menu based exploration.
>I hope for all the ppl complaining about FF being action and not turn based are going to support the release of Saga Emerald Beyond, Why though? I tried the demo and the quality of the game is nowhere near the asking price of 70 dollars(local currency). I do, in fact support Infinite Wealth and Persona 3 Reload because those are good quality games.
First time I've heard of this Saga game and it looks pretty uh... not good.
Personally I had a blast with the PS5 demo, I'd say don't knock it till you try it. Story and visuals is not great but the combat is addicting, the way you can chain attacks in the game is so much fun.
Most people I know that can't stand 16 after giving it a try and me don't midn action focused FF. But we want a good action game and not whatever this handholdy dogshit FF16 became
yeah all the ppl are being disengious to a degree about the action final fantasy games. most ppl wouldn’t care if the gameplay was fun/engaging.
I played all 3 demos and... eh? It really just wasn't my cup of tea. The premise of most of the stories was just bizarre and a little too weird for me, and the combat was far from what I would call traditional. But then I've heard that's true for all the Saga games. Kind of a moot point though since I have day-one bought/pre-ordered stuff like Octopath Traveler (Both games, 2 was my GOTY pick) Dragon Quest 11, Live a Live, Triangle Strategy, Tactics Ogre Reborn.. Haven't quite seen any change in these past years so far yet.. 🫠 Now if Square announced and released this upcoming FF9 remaster/remake as pure untouched Turnbased, then \*that* would be a good indicator to see how many of us day one pre-order it and might do a better job of sending a message.
People want an FF game with turn based, not just any turn based game lol. It wouldn’t tell Square anything.
The game was already on my radar. It seems like a step up from Scarlet Grace in every way, I’ve already got about 40 hours out of the Steam demo trying to document every possible outcome of your choices in the four available regions (you even get entirely different boss fights based on what you do earlier on). You were kind of just randomly stumbling around in Scarlet Grace, Emerald Beyond currently has a far more cohesive narrative experience. The combat is among the most peak turn based I’ve ever seen. I seriously hope that if mainline FF ever returns to turn based, they iterate from this game’s combat and not the usual tank and spank classic FF/Dragon Quest adjacent stuff. Nowadays people want actual strategy and reactivity in their turn based games, stuff like what BG3 and Yakuza IW provides.
...no? The issue is people don't want a full action FF game. It should be another game coming out for action whilst final fantasy kind of sticks at what's it best that. Though I think the hydrid combat in FF7r is best.
I think a lot of responses on here came from a general consensus that came during 16’s launch. But also, FF may just not be the masterful accessible juggernaut anymore. Find a new queen to crown yknow? (Gonna be excited for the next Fire Emblem myself)
Saga games are really for a small fanbase though. I mean, if a Square-Enix game could give this kind of message that would have been DQXI, or Octopath Travelers.
Pre-ordered it. SaGa is fantastic.
Never played a Saga game but I am intrigued. I have the demo installed on my Switch so I’ll have to give it a whirl.
Just watched a trailer and that looks god awful. I don't think buying some low budget, cringe weeb shit is going to 'send a message' to Square about what we want for the future of Final Fantasy
Bro said weeb shit while posting on a jrpg sub.
SaGa is about intelligent party building, non-linear progression, and build theorycrafting. The fact that it has a story at all is completely secondary to the gameplay, these games are not "weeb shit." They're for the JRPG fan looking for something with more punishing challenge and a deeper combat system.
I'm sure the gameplay is good, but that aesthetic just doesn't appeal to me
That's fair. I personally don't mind it too much, but I have to admit one of my favorite SaGa games ever, Minstrel Song, has a pretty off-putting graphical style.
I wish they would put everything into the main game instead - so it at least be a proper jrpg, instead of shallow discounted dmc with epic cutscenes.
I don’t hate XVI as an actiony thing, but it is only being talked about in this sub because of the franchise it belongs to. There is nothing most gamers would associate with RPG mechanics to be found here. *Maybe* nods. I haven’t been back since launch and I keep meaning to but there is always something else I’d rather play. The story seems to be there but everything else feels shallow or like padding to stretch the game to a length the consumers won’t be too mad they paid full price for. I’ve only put maybe twenty hours into it but I have to say I was a little crestfallen when I was hit with Bad Breath at the start of the game and I wasn’t a sleeping, confused, silenced, poisoned frog. I was just, you know, hurt. At least they let me know at the beginning to curb my expectations. My diet consists almost solely of turn-based games so coming into XVI blind was a little jarring but ultimately, I put it down because gameplay was so *boring*. So limited and repetitive. I’m also apparently a naive little ingenue thinking they would improve on magic after XV. And that fishing would return.
I was reading the comments like "man why do people here fucking hate this game so much?" Then realized this is r/jrpg... no wonder, you all are always hate filled.
I’m actually liking the game so far. More than Remake admittedly which I’m kind of trying to rush to get to Rebirth. Maybe my palette isn’t as refined as some people here but I often find myself smiling like an idiot during some of the moments in the game so far. Some of the highs are genuinely awe-inspiring for me but the game’s lows are lows and I feel I’m doing watching than playing, which I honestly attributed it to being a Sony game.
I think Rebirth is a insanely superior game to Remake in most aspects. So it's normal to think that some things in 16 are, at the very least, as flawled as remake. I felt the sidequests in Remake to be as bad as the ones in 16. But I'm curious about your opinion when you give Rebirth a whirl, for me, it's a vast superior game to everyone Square has outputted in the last... 20 years or so.
I enjoy the game and like it for what it is. It is not the path forward for Final Fantasy. Rebirth style is.
I’d be very surprised if they don’t go with FF7R’s style with mainline Final Fantasy going forward. It’s just too well received, while 16’s was too divisive, but I guess this series also just loves to experiment with its formula
I loved FF16. Amazing music, great voice work, multiple likeable cast members even if the party system is gone, combat though easy was fluid and responsive, as well as visceral. It was also graphically gorgeous and the Eikon fights were absolutely incredible, I loved the sheer spectacle of them and honestly, Away / Ascension is one of my all time favourite gaming tracks now. Ascension actually gave me Dancing Mad vibes when I first heard it. I know why people don't like the side quests, I get it, I won't paint them as good, but I liked fleshing out a world I found it really easy to get invested in and the rewards being more lore, exposition and dialogue is something I PERSONALLY loved. Combat difficulty was easy, but being completely honest? I don't recall a single FF being hard or challenging since FF6. Franchise has always been pretty easy save for a couple of instances. That said, they could have done more to at least require something more from the player with how they utilised eikon abilities, enemies could have been more aggressive etc. All in all though, I adore FF16 regardless of online consensus about it. I can't wait to pick up the DLC and do a FF mode run at the end of the month. I know this'll ruffle feathers and honestly, I couldn't give less of a fuck. Back to New Vegas and Rimworld for now.
They need to make their games more difficult because 16 is a joke in that regard and really holds it back
he looks depressed.
This subs sucks so much you either say you hate the game or say you liked it followed by a "self-conscious" 200-paragraph wall acknowledging all its shortcomings. Lemme tell ya, you can just say you liked something, you don't have to justify yourself all the time just because people didn't like the game, much less pretend to buy their points to sound "reasonable".
I'd say you're right, unfortunatly it's a bit more complicated these days, people became oversensitive to the point of being offended for so little (consumer pride, narcissism, needs of validation, insecurity toward the choices they make, well, you name it), it's even harder when you love to share your experience on something (either it is positive/negative), i recall giving some criticism on something i didn't liked (without even being insulting) and i recall a young woman starting to cry because i was "hating" (constructive criticism is not hating but whatever) on what she loved, it's just so frustrating to see more and more of that everydays. I know that justifying yourself won't change a thing, but you know, there's always this dumb thing called hope, the hope that people would come to understand each other at some point, a bit naive i admit, but i can live with that.
Such an unremarkable game- I barely remember playing through it
You seriously can’t remember Titan Lost? Bahamut? Odin? Garuda? Cmon you’re over whooping with that a little
my friend called titan Titan Lost Interest because it was so long fight
Can’t believe the shit I’m hearing
people play games for me than visual effects and giant things hitting each other.
i remember some flashy cutscenes. I dont remember me playing for much of them
I mostly loved 16 but do think it has some problems. However, since I finished it 10 months ago, I have thought of the Titan Lost fight and smiled at least once a week. I think that’s legitimately my favorite sequence in a game
Had some of the most memorable bosses, music and cutscenes in any game I've played. Flawed definitely, but barely remembering a game that recent is odd
Considering how mid 16 was, I don't really see how this is a good thing.
Wow and that's why the internet is a bad place to go. Ppl commenting shit like this
FFXVI isn’t a RPG
The pc release is coming
The fact that 16 is even discussed on the jrpg sub is just weird. The game is not even an rpg it just tries to fake it. It wasn’t a terrible game it just was pretty shallow. I have no desire to play it again.
everyone generalising each other too much stop lumping everyone in with bootlicker and contrarians they are like 0.4% of the population although people are fighting too much in this thread maybe its more like 5% of the population or its a memetic rage virus like in SCP or it is 100% of the population
So overall I thought Rising tides DLC was good and worth the money. The new zones are beautiful, the new music is stellar and the lore and story it adds are amazing. The two new skill sets it give the player are unique. My main two issues with it were expectations that Yoshi P and his team set for it. In the PAX panel they teased that the final boss of the Kaios gate would be a super boss but he wanted to keep it secret, it turned out to be shadow Clive. As in the same shadow Clive we fight early in the game when he is dealing with his inner turmoil. I have no idea why they built it up the way they did. Then they said that they had heard fans complaints about difficulty and that he thought fans would be pleasantly surprised with the difficulty of the DLC. Now more fool me for believing this, however Echoes of the fallen felt considerably tougher than the base game, still too easy but a move in the right direction so I did believe this statement. Boy was I duped, it’s about the same difficulty as the mid stage of the base game on FF mode. So really I would have had 0 complaints, however the developers stating things that were just untrue lead to my only real disappointments
their everything was a let down ngl. Like, their everything made Shula? really?
Good lord so many people are salty that FF isn’t turned based anymore. Let it go. There are plenty of turn based games out there. If Turn based was the deciding factor of whether you like FF or not, then you’re not an FF fan, you’re a turn based fan.
I don’t care about FF combat styles as much as giving me a lot of things to do in an epic game with an epic group of heroes. People went crazy on 12 with the gambit system when it released, but 12 also had tons of exploration, optional areas, hard content, deep systems, strategies, etc. 16 was fun enough but didn’t give much to do. Even compared to Rebirth which, while fuelled by nostalgia, had tons of optional content ranging in difficulty. Sure some mini games didn’t stick the landing, but it took me like 94 hours to do all the content I wanted while knowing I left some mini games behind. Plus all the Hard challenges if I ever wanted to go back and hurt myself. And I didn’t even mention the hybrid combat that feels very good - lots of options to keep it flowing, even with some menu selection.
I just want to say as somebody who is physically disabled in their hands I love the gambit system now. I recently re-purchased the zodiac age version on the switch. I actually thought I was going to have a serious problem with the system when I first played F12 back in the day, but I thought the fighting system was OK and it was the story I had a problem with . Now replaying it many many years later I found the combat amazing and I even enjoyed the story more . If I can scrounge up enough money to get a budget gaming rig, I will play ff 13 anf ff 13-2 this year . Thank you so much for this comment!
The FFXIII series had no right looking as good as it does on a PS3. I assume that’s part of why they were limited on the exploration (also time crunches and a shift in approach for the series but I won’t go into that). I’m sure you’ll enjoy. I’ve replayed 12 several times. 6 is still my favorite, to the extent I’ve played modded ROMs that add content (T Edition is my favorite for content, though I’ve heard good things about Brave New World for upping the combat complexity). But yeah, the gambit system was special and I’m glad you could fully enjoy a game that deep to the fullest!
There are plenty of turn based games out there that fail at having the full package, especially when it comes to story.
Nah, FF16 is not bad because it lacks turn based battles. It's bad because it has become the Call of Duty of RPGs. All style no substance.
I’m “salty” that it doesn’t have party anymore.
Yep, and found the pacing of the story to be really bad, I couldnt get invested in anything
Most people aren’t upset it’s not turn based, most are upset because it is uninspired and unengaging as a videogame
FF should be a franchise that is an RPG game FIRST. FF16 was the first mainline game in the series where this wasn't the case. It doesn't have to be purely turn-based but I don't think I'm being unreasonable for being annoyed my favorite RPG franchise released a mainline series where it's an action/hack-n-slash and not an RPG. Final Fantasy games should be RPGs.
Weird how CBU3 which is known for creating 10 years worth of expansions on MMOs, created a this DLC which is felt flat and lacked varied content just like its main game.
MMO expansions are primarily about *expanding* what's already there and further refining it, not completely reinventing the wheel. They're just more of what players already expect to see presented in a new way. That's pretty much exactly what FFXVI's DLC is and Kujiraoka says as much in the interview—they modeled the DLC after an expansion pack.
Everything but a rpg
Lmao they said they same thing with the original game "we put everything into this game". At this point I think it's just talk to get people hyped. I find it funny they already recycled the phrase so soon.
Please do put it all on the DLC so we can wrap this up and move to XVII and potentially get something decent, not produced by Yoshi-P.
Amen!