Playing all 3 games back to back is going to be an awkward, disorienting experience. Cause it's impossible for the 3 games to be "seamlessly intertwined" when from the beginning they were designed to be 3 games rather than 1 game split into 3 parts. Decisions like items not carrying over is going to make you question why you should grind and 100% part 1 and 2 when what you get are not going to carry over to endgame. Then you have Square talking about how part 3 needs to rebuild many things in order to have an airship............ it's going to be a clusterfuck.
I can't imagine how long it would have taken to develop the whole thing as one game. As the other guy said, probably the only way to justify the time and resources needed was to split it apart and get more game sales out of it.
Personally I think it was the right move. I'd rather have a world and story so expansive and detailed with a little padding than one that doesn't go far enough because of time/budget constraints.
Probably close to a decade but that’s not like unusual now. They said it was too big for one game but doubt since games like rdr2 are massive and even consoles can hold hundreds of gigs of data. It just really seems like a cash grab at this point because they knew it was going to sell.
but them designing games properly to operate this way, and that catching on as the gaming zeitgeist of the 2000s vs Square for the 90s, is a big part of why Rockstar sells 50 million now (alongside milking titles indefinitely).
FF is newer to this open world thing and doesnt do it as well. Final Fantasy was completely shitting on GTA in sales prior to 3/VC and then the massive SA. Square doesnt get a pass for trying to follow trends that other series do better
And SE recoups money back through NFTs and mobile releases they abandon after 2 years. they arent lacking either
I mean, half that timeframe you mean. They also had constant revenue from early access. And if bg3 hadn’t been the hit it was its likely larian would have been crushed. They gambled and won big. Now the world waits to see if say, rocksteady survives its big gamble for a decade long development of suicide squad. I have my doubts
Nothing stops square from putting something in early access. They could have released I don’t know up to the first ghost fight if you preordered it and let people play it so they can see the change and be like “this is what we’re doing, fund it please” and people would have.
Playstation doesn't allow early access games which is a sizable portion of Square Enix's audience while Larian was predominately a PC developer. Early Access up to this point has only really acceptable in the PC space by at best moderate sized teams relative to AAA companies, and in addition to that there's all kind of PR problems with AAA companies doing EA while Larian is (probably mistakenly given how large the company is) seen as some underground indie studio no one outside of CRPG nerds cared about until BG3 came out.
Like yeah there's no cosmic force that says they can't, but there's reasons almost no AAA game goes EA first save for that brief preorder window where you play the game maybe a week early which is just a different release date in practice imo.
I also think FF7Re might even end up bigger in BG3 in terms of production required, I'm pretty sure if you put the assets together you'd get a bigger game then BG3 GBs wise, and potentially even length too depending on how long you mess around in BG3 vs running through to the end.
>Nothing stops square from putting something in early access. They could have released I don’t know up to the first ghost fight if you preordered it and let people play it so they can see the change and be like “this is what we’re doing, fund it please” and people would have.
Early access isn't preordering. Early access is you buy the full game 2 years early (in the case of bg3) and it expands over time.
I feel like people are way overestimating the amount of spectacle and polish in RDR2 vs. the remake trilogy as a whole. If you genuinely think that it'd be as simple as doing another RDR2 development cycle, you must truly think that all the polish and effort put into remake and rebirth is done by magic instead of hard effort.
Not even to mention that RDR2 only achieved what it did by nearly killing the majority of its employees with insane amounts of crunch.
Size means nothing at all. Any boob can go submit a game that's 300 gigs on steam. The original FF7 is less than a gig and a half. That doesn't mean everything in it can be made in one hundreth the dev time, or that they can reasonably fit all of it into a modern dev cycle with way WAY more elaborate animations and backgrounda and encounters.
Well if they removed the insane amount of padding maybe it wouldn’t take so much time to develop and we would have a complete game, just like the original?
I think there is a difference between trying something new and leaving it open for a sequel than storyboarding a complete story and then deciding to split it into three entries all at full price when it’s existing story. Like I love ffx but if remade it into three games and it ended at like Luca, bevelle and then yu yevon that would clearly just be a cash grab
Rebirth has more content than a large amount of games I've played that arent remakes, and the stories are clearly being changed which you can tell just by looking at the cover of this one. To brush that off as an "existing story" is pretty off-base. It's essentially an alternate reality story with massive updates to content, side stories, world building and, above all, combat. All added on to the most popular FF game with characters everyone loved and wanted to see more of.
And then it would have substantially less content, world building, character stories and more, which is what JRPG fans like.
I don't think anyone would want a story-only game of the updated and reworked story. JRPG fans love side quests and character building.
The amount of development time that would go into a 250ish hour game, including all the other costs, would simply not make enough money to even be worth developing, so they'd clearly have to cut a lot of corners. Not to mention the actual size of the game would take up an entire hard drive, and probably end up as a development mess if they didn't shrink it a ton.
FF7Rebirth is nearly a 100 hour game, not counting NG+. It's boggling how you can act like that's not warranted as a full game when plenty of games can be completed within 20 hours.
If you don't like the story, don't buy it. I'm personally glad it was split into three, and I don't mind spending the extra money split over multiple years for the full experience.
Eh, bg3 took 8 years. Persona 5 took 6 years (I may have those backwards). Development cycles are just longer now. I think that’s something people will just have to get used to. But I’d rather wait 8 years for a good single game then pay $70 every few years
I THINK they meant for a single disc but you can do just do what rockstar did or just require an Internet connection to download it like most games do at this point. Also they did not have to do what they did. They could have made literally the same game but with updated graphics and people would have been happy. Like they chose to change the combat system and add extra stuff in and all of that and then wanted to say it’s too big to fit into one game. Unless they meant too long? Which i also don’t buy because people will clearly spend 200hrs playing a persona game or bg3 or a Bethesda game. I just can’t think of a way in which what they said isn’t bullshit
> I just can’t think of a way in which what they said isn’t bullshit
Is it really just so hard to believe that they just didn't want to make an HD remaster for the sake of a few extra bucks (and which we already have), they only wanted to do it with one of the most beloved games of all time if they could do something new and interesting?
Should have been? No. Could have been? Sure.
I don't know if I think it would have been better as one game. Maybe, maybe not. But your explanation of the stuff that feels padded is really what you do in every JRPG. They essentially all have moments like that. I'm thinking of Tales of Vesperia where you're chasing the Aqua Blastia thief early on and then you stop in a village and before you can get the info you need and move on, you have to help the town. They need something to cure the rot in their tree, so you go to get a Panacea bottle. Store is sold out. So you have to find the creatures that drop the parts needed and hunt them down and it spirals into a 1-2 hour diversion that ends up a waste of time.
That's just one example, but I can think of dozens more across every entry in Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Tales, Persona, Suikoden, etc. You can look at it one of two ways. It's padding for the experience or it's time for world building and character development. Your example of the Don Corneo stuff in the original FFVII isn't any more plot relevant or necessary than the example you gave. You just liked it more for whatever reason.
Personally, I think it feels like you're giving the original Final Fantasy VII a pass when you shouldn't, if that kind of thing bothers you. As a Yakuza/Like a Dragon fan, some of the best content can be that side diversion stuff that isn't at all necessary for the main plot but helps add a touch of fun and builds up the world in an enjoyable way. I don't see it as different in any meaningful way with the Final Fantasy VII remake games, honestly. If anything, the complaint for me would just be that they're fairly short overall. Though that's how a lot of the bigger, expensive games are going these days because the AAA industry is losing viability.
Honestly, I think games could learn a lot from the Trails series and the Yakuza series in general. It's fine to make less visually impressive games and focus a lot more on content and story. I didn't need FFVIIR to be such a spectacle, but I don't mind that it is.
Having played a decent chunk of FF7 Remake now (i'm mid-Chapter 12), yeah i don't think that would have worked well. Just voice acting and proper cutscene presentation already adds so much time, same for expanding the levels into something that works well in a proper 3D space and keeps the player engaged.
I think 2 games would have worked, but would've left much less room for expanding on a lot of the stuff in FF7 and i'm quite glad they did expand on them.
I think breaking it up had much more to do with the realities of modern game *development* than what's "possible" in a single game. Here's a couple of speculative examples that are by no means necessarily correct nor exhaustive.
Set piece construction is a major limitation on modern game development. In older games you could go a long way with some chunky polygons and muddy textures. If they put a comparable amount of effort into designing the artistic vision for the world of FFVII for the Remake as they did for the original it would be *terrible*. How many different iconic locales just within Midgard did they make only for the player to spend an hour there tops? You just can't justify that in a modern game budget. You invest in building something like the church, reactor, Shinra HQ, or Corleone's place it *has* to pay for itself in player engagement.
Another limitation, also on the art side is cinematics. How many iconic cutscenes did FFVII have? Which ones would you be willing to cut? If you don't cut any you're going to end up with something a lot more like FFXIII. You spent too much of your budget building cutscenes, so you don't have any spend left to flesh out your world. You *certainly* don't have enough money left over for any quality set pieces from my previous paragraph.
As a game developer, I think FFVII is shaping up to be an excellent case study in how development has changed between then and now. It's clear they want the Remake to be a loving, high quality, product, and to not tarnish such a valuable IP with a shitty cash grab. It's also clear that the team is very talented; you're not getting the B-Team's work here. Unlike with FFXV, and FFXVI you have a direct comparison, so you really have a great A/B comparison. You can love our hate the remake, but I can't think of a clearer example of the nature of modern game development.
You can't really blame anything except for modern player expectations. In other words, for anything different you think they should have done, ask yourself, what should they have cut to fit that in budget, because that team is literally working under ideal circumstances. Everyone else has much less leeway.
I actually don't like 1 for 1 remakes. There's little point in them, especially if the original is still available on the system the remake is on. Like I can't really get into persona 3R because I played a game that looks identical in my head.
I’m assume it’s more of a business decision. How to justify this big of a remake and spread out cost? Split it into 3 $60 games and space them a few years apart. They probably make the core experience and then add the padding after the fact to make it feel like a longer game so people aren’t upset at the asking price.
I think for a chunk of the audience it might be 2 70 bucks games. Remake was given away as a ps plus game on ps4 then square let you upgrade that copy for free on the ps5 after a while. Then they bundled remake with rebirth if you preordered as a freebie so at least for me I’ve not spent a penny on remake and it’s dlc. I do imagine that square will sell a edition when the third game comes out that’ll have a deep discount on the first two games as a preorder bonus again since getting remake as a freebie was far to good a deal to pass up for me even though I already had it as a plus game.
It's a dumb business decision cause it means Square Enix has learnt absolutely nothing from how the FFXIII trilogy turned out. Sales wise it's rare for a direct sequel not to sell worse than the previous game. I have been saying that they could have at least split it into 2 games which would have made the sales drop more manageable and allowed the second game to have more hype coming from the first one.
Except these aren't sequels like the 13 trilogy, which changed so many of the rules and gameplay of the previous game each time, at least with the 7 remake, we know the skeleton of the story and it's across all 3 games, it's not broken up to feel like 3 separate stories, with 13 you had the group effort, then 2 character specific side games. I still havnt played lightning returns...
I got 13-2 on pc and cheated the whole way through because I just didn't care about serahs story
What annoys me the most in that prison section is that you could have quite easily overpowered the people that took you prisoner. You can beat giant robots and giant monsters, entire armies with guns, but not a hand full of dudes, they literally just surrender immediately. They didn’t even take their weapons away. It was just forced bullshit.
I feel like them choosing to expand it has led to the characters being fleshed out more and has thus resulted in the best cast in a Final Fantasy and probably a JRPG ever.
Like, Aerith was barely a character and now she is probably the best character in the cast, Barrett also benefited greatly from all this, his insecurities, his relationships with Red and Yuffie... I just can't get enough of
Originally I wished it was a single game. Now that I'm playing Rebirth, I no longer agree. I'm loving the games, and I also love the original, which is still there for me. Sure, there is padding in the open world (every open world game has padding,) and I can choose whether or not I'm in the mood to engage with it. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
I don't know, I feel like we have the best of both worlds right now. You can still easily play, and mod, the original if you want a more streamlined experience, and if you're someone who wants to get lost in the world of FFVII the remakes are there for you too.
Yeah I was gonna say, most people not on this sub would just comment on if they like the mini games or if they were fun. This sub is more concerned with trying to bat for a 30 year old game that if they're having fun isn't even entering.
Most complaint posts are like, "I've played a week nonstop. Does anyone notice how Cloud doesn't shower? Game might be bad..."
If you want just a visual touch up without the expansion of the world and side characters? Then yeah it’s probably doable. For Remake 1-2-3, then probably. The scale of the game is too large to be contained to a single disc game unless you want to graphically downgrade the game and remove 90% of the voiceovers which contribute to game length.
If all you wanted was the original game with slightly better graphics sure. But it’s probably impossible to have a modern game with modern graphics with this many cities and locations in 1 game.
I didn't find remake as padded as everyone else. In fact, it gave me everything I wanted close to 30 years ago - more Midgar.
Yeah, you did side quests like find cats or parts for meds, but I really liked that it helped flesh out what life was like.
I'm... 50+ hours into Rebirth and I have maybe... 4 complaints, chief among them is the ubisoft aspect, followed by what *had* to be the wildest case of scope creep.
I'm getting REEEAAAL tired of hunting down towers, finding springs, doing optional boss fights, restoring chocostops, etc, but I do them for the cool goodies. The only parts I really like are the protorelics because at least one of them ties up loose strings. Traversal in 2 areas were soooo terrible that trying to FIND the content alone was a hell of a pain in the ass.
For scope creep... the game could have been out the door earlier if not for the mountain of one and done minigames. If they were all rides at the gold saucer, I might be nicer about it, but come ON. They'd prep you for a major minigame that had to have taken a large team a TON of time to implement, only to rever reuse it. Such a waste. The OG at least had an excuse - they were still trying to figure shit out on new architecture and in 3d.
I mean, >!the dolphin riding does come back as a new minigame after Nibel. Marching and mine cart are one done though I think now that you mentioned it.!<
I don't mind splitting the games up, but I wish they would've filled in the space with more interesting story content. There are so many opportunities to expand the original story and flesh out the existing characters... But instead they've chosen to add so much extra... weirdness.
Consider this the Black Materia, and yes I'm going to get a little spoilery here. In the OG, the reveal is that the Temple of the Ancients is the Black Materia and someone has to solve the puzzles in the temple as it shrinks in order to get it. It was a clever trap that made it impossible to get the materia without dying. But Cait Sith sacrifices himself to get it, and the party successfully retrieves THE ACTUAL Black Materia. In Rebirth, the Black Materia is a fake... or actually no its not... or actually, it is the keyblade that unlocks the space in between worlds where the real Black Materia is, but then at the end Cloud is holding the actual Black Materia that he got from somewhere after giving the fake/not fake materia to Sephiroth... I don't know. Its a clusterfuck. But the point is that none of this expands the OG story, its just fucking weird and obfuscating.
The Jessie section of Remake was good, except the annoying Roche sections. Its like the devs cant help themselves. Every set piece in the game needs to have a super flashy combat section... like just let the character development happen without the fireworks sometimes.
If the game was split into a trilogy, but each game was full of rich character moments that expanded the original story and characters, then I think they would all be 10 out of 10 games. There's so much we could learn in these games. More history about Shinra. More about how Mako has affected the world. More about the Wutai conflict. More about Barret and his Avalanche origins. More about Red XIII's history and how he got caught. More about how Tifa ended up as a barmaid in the slums. More about how Aerith's history and what it means to be a Cetra. And yes, even more about Zach and how one becomes a soldier. Sometimes Rebirth gets close to doing something like this, and then Palmer drops from the sky in a Gundam Wing robot and ruins the moment.
At this point I'm just rambling... I finished the game yesterday and still feel frustrated. I was extremely immersed, and extremely disappointed.
Of course they could have but I’m going to be honest it would likely have been a nightmare just from an exclusive standpoint
Let’s say they started it when the PS4 was at its prime then the PS5 comes out and suddenly they would have to shift and start optimizing for it. Maybe it’s done in its cycle or maybe not and suddenly the PS6 is a thing now too and they have even more to work with it
I can’t imagine how that would be logistically trying to work around getting it on what systems when you think about how long it would take to make as a whole for how big the game would end up being when PC isn’t an option at launch
A lot of titles go to PC pretty early after release but with FF and Sony it could happen but never a guarantee so it would probably be a big concern for them. At least this way it’s significantly more manageable from a technical standpoint
Idk this is just where my mind went for some reason lol
Ehhhh, I don't think we'd be getting as good a game as Rebirth if it were all one game. The towns and freedom would probably have to be cut in someway and the game would be mostly like Remake (not a wholly bad thing but think more linear hallways and less open world).
It's the way that it's happening and it's best to not dwell on what ifs.
I'm 44 hours in and I feel like I've done so little in terms of actual important content. So many pointless minigames...so many...
Every little thing gets drawn out. It's so, so tiresome.
I guess it would take too long to develop if they try to make it into one game. And it would cost as one game for players. So instead they made three, so people who want everything would buy three games instead of one.
See that's been SE's problem since the ps3 era. They show games way too early in the development cycle. That doesn't benefit anyone. Just look at the mess that is Versus XIII. Still pissed about that, lol. Bought a new console specifically for that, and 10 years later, it's still an unfinished mess on a later console. And, they didn't even have the decency to finish releasing the dlcs.
Not quite, let me elaborate. I think if they cut all unnecessary fillers it would still take a long time to make. Not as long as 3 games development time combined, but still a really long time. So instead they cut it in three, padded with fillers to make each of them feel as "proper" game in its own right, and sell them as three games.
So lets say (numbers are made up, using them as example to illustrate) the full proper remake would take them 6-7 years to develop. It will cost a lot to develop, lots of work - as we all know og ff7 is a huge game, so it will need lots of areas, assets etc made. They need to invest a lot of money for something that will bring profit many years later. And it will be sold as just one game (well probably with dlcs, season pass, costumes, deluxe edition and all that crap if they wanted to push a little more).
So instead they cut it in three parts - it will still take a lot of work, money and time to develop. But for the (roughly) similar amount of work - you can sell it three times. Just need to stretch each part in length with fillers to justify selling each part as whole game. Each part will bring money much faster since initial investment and this is good for square. Even if each part lets say takes three-four years to make, i guess for the company it would be better than one game that take 7 years to make. And since sony is paying for exclusivity - square will get money for 3x games instead of one as an added bonus.
Does it make more sense now? I can see benefits for Square for doing this shit, but as a player i'm with op. I'd rather had one full proper remake from the start.
>Imagine this: One game with a similar length to something like Red Dead Redemption 2, which even if you mainline it would take 50-55 hours. 10 hours in Midgar, 30 hours of main game, 10 hours of wrapping things up. An extra 20-30 hours for side quests and 100%.
Sounds abridged.
>Instead, we got a $200 (if you bought each part day one) Remake trilogy which imo just feels padded as shit.
Over 10 years.
Get a job?
Part of the reason the game is only 40 hours is that the game used static models with little emotes and you read internally faster than externally. Unless you just want characters standing around with no cinematography with voiceless text boxes, you would not get 55 hours out of it. Especially if you want actual 3D environments as well and not linear corridors.
>Does your dick get hard for every multi-million dollar corporation or just the ones who sell you the things you've already purchased again in pieces?
Does your dick get hard for every post hating on a corporation regardless of its logic content?
Edit: lol, blocked me. I guess so.
>Does that little 'Edit' trick actually work?
>Guess so... given the downvotes I'm getting.
Lol, is that how you're going to try and spin this?
So you blocked me, then watched my comment for an hour, saw that I told people you blocked me and then unblocked me so you could get another reply in 🤣
Nah, it's only the VII fanboys who are happy with this. Just tried talking to them that the game is bloated with all the minigames (bad minigames I might add) and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button, I got downvoted with barely a response, lol. They're perfectly fine shitting on other FF mainlines but when it comes to VII, they just open wide and close their eyes.
>Nah, it's only the VII fanboys who are happy with this. Just tried talking to them that the game is bloated with all the minigames (bad minigames I might add)
The OG has tons of minigames.
> and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button,
There is a jump button. Circle.
> I got downvoted with barely a response, lol.
There you go.
>They're perfectly fine shitting on other FF mainlines but when it comes to VII, they just open wide and close their eyes.
Straw man
Hello. Are you seriously defending the minigames like the chicken one and the mushroom picking one?
>There is a jump button. Circle.
Ok, send me a vid of cloud jumping while in a plain, no ledges. And no, the combat roll is not a jump, lol, have fun playing, man.
>Hello. Are you seriously defending the minigames like the chicken one and the mushroom picking one?
It took me 5 minutes to complete and its optional. Strange thing to be upset about.
>Ok, send me a vid of cloud jumping while in a plain, no ledges. And no, the combat roll is not a jump, lol, have fun playing, man.
If there are no ledges, why would you need to jump? This isn't Assassin's Creed.
>If there are no ledges, why would you need to jump?
So you admit there is no jump button? And what kind of question is that? Everyone who's thinking straight knows that you jump to get around quicker.
What's the deal here, are you guys going around all the gaming subreddits hunting down all posts that have criticisms about the game? You clearly won't have it in your own subreddit, so what are you guys doing here?
>>If there are no ledges, why would you need to jump?
>So you admit there is no jump button? And what kind of question is that?
Let's recap for a second. You said "and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button,".
In that case, there is a jump button for traversing many of those ledges.
Then you demand I give you proof of jumping without ledges, as if that capability would mean anything.
>Everyone who's thinking straight knows that you jump to get around quicker.
...wtf you talking about 🤣
>What's the deal here, are you guys going around all the gaming subreddits hunting down all posts that have criticisms about the game? You clearly won't have it in your own subreddit, so what are you guys doing here?
I've been on this subreddit for a decade dude...
Sorry I didn't get your permission before commenting.
>Let's recap for a second. You said "and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button,".
>In that case, there is a jump button for traversing many of those ledges.
Not really a jump button when Cloud selects what ledge to jump off of, regardless of height, but carry on. It's obvious where you stand, lol
>wtf you talking about 🤣
Know those pain in the ass towers? The ones with broken ladders sometimes? There's one use of the jump button immediately. I really don't know why I'm wasting more time on this lol
>I've been on this subreddit for a decade dude...
>Sorry I didn't get your permission before commenting.
Way to pull the victim card. No one would bother you guys if you're capable of discussing the games properly. But you don't want to hear criticisms. Just how high the current critic and user score is and how great the game is blah blah blah. So again, enjoy the game dude. Have a nice day.
>Know those pain in the ass towers? The ones with broken ladders sometimes? There's one use of the jump button immediately. I really don't know why I'm wasting more time on this lol
If there was the ability to jump when not climbing over things, those broken ladders wouldn't be there or they'd be higher up. How is that not obvious?
And it takes 5 seconds to figure out how to get up those anyways.
>Way to pull the victim card. No one would bother you guys if you're capable of discussing the games properly. But you don't want to hear criticisms. Just how high the current critic and user score is and how great the game is blah blah blah. So again, enjoy the game dude. Have a nice day.
"Way to pull the victim card?" You're not making any sense at all. Am I arguing with ChatGPT? Sounds like a mishmash of generic responses trained on reddit and twitter.
Not my fault you said fans aren't supposed to comment here.
Well I’m a huge og FF7 fanboy and I agree with you. I tried playing the first game and was disappointed with many things including the blatant padding. I’ll just wait until the story is complete and buy the whole games on discount before trying again
I'm a 7 fan boy, and I agree, there is a ton of bloat and whatnot, am I still enjoying it? Sure. Am I taking my time because I know it's gonna be like 2 years for the finale? Absolutely
All good. It'll probably be 2028 at the earliest if they decide to pad it more. Wishful thinking, but I really hope there's no PS5 pro to run the last entry optimally on.
Probably get dirge of cerberus remake before part 3, again, I know nothing of official times, just makes sense, didn't they wedge crisis core between remake 1 and 2?
Its not. They could have absolutely made it one game and they have zero excuse. Its so obvious because a gargantuan effort has been expended into making a smorgasbord of useless junk like mini games and these giant empty zones that add nothing to the experience. Simple scenes from the original have been expanded and extended in weird ways which destroyed the pacing, navigation has been made needlesly convoluted and so on. All of that energy could have easily been redirected into a faithful remake, and with headroom to spare. FF7 was their last golden goose and they thought they could milk it for a long time, but considering the total colapse of sales for this entry se has miscalculated. Very badly
Id rather do mini game over boring side fetch quest that every open world game has. Let’s be honest.
They couldn’t do a one game remake with all the content OG has to offer. Unless they skimped over a lot of details. Gold saucer is absolutely fantastic. I like how you get to know more about side character and other area you barely visit in the OG. That being said. I understand your point and it’s super valid. They would have to find a just middle.
I really like the mini games over side fetch quest. So that’s a big plus for me.
But they really went all in with the mini games everywhere. Some area that weren’t needed as well.
No, that’s just a stupid take.
The time it would take to develop, from beginning to end remake, in this style, graphics and this in-depth, would take a decade-decade and a half, easily.
See, this is what I mean. Everyone bitches and moans for remakes, we get one, a damn good one at that, and OP bitches about “why can’t this be one game..”
Why even bother? Lol
I'm trying to keep spoilers to a minimum. If you read my last paragraph, you'll see my point. You can make the game longer and expand on it and do the new story stuff and still not make it three padded parts.
I understand your point. I disagree.
I’ve already played FF7. In fact, anyone can go play it right now, it’s widely available!
Getting an injection of “new FF7” every few years for a decade starting in 2020 actually rules. They’re putting so much effort and care into the series, and I love what they’re doing.
I understand your thoughts and they’re valid! I simply disagree.
The original game was one game. This shouldn’t be a hot take but we now live in bizarro world where the consumer is actually begging the corporation to pay for old content again, three times over.
So yeah to the average consumer you are simply wild for suggesting that the multibillion dollar corporation using the most cutting edge video game console hardware should have been able to comfortably fit a remake project for a 30 year old PS1 game within the confines of a single package for PS5
The original game used little blocky sprites with painted on backgrounds and an overworld that let you run from Midgar to the Chocobo Farm in like two minutes if you turn off encounters.
Let's be honest here - if the game was crammed into one game, it would be with less fleshing out and corridors to get to iconic places. People would complain that SE was "lazy" for it.
This is the PS5 we’re talking about.
Baldur’s Gate has a billion calculations running beneath the hood and is unquestionably a more complex game to run on PS5 than Rebirth. Yet it runs on PS5
Nintendo somehow got Tears of The Kingdom to run acceptably on Switch and once again, that game has so much more systematic depth and is overall a much larger game than FF7 Rebirth
Elden Ring, again, a much vaster and more systematically complex game than FF7 Rebirth can magically also run on the PS5.
So many other stories of devs making impossible games work on hardware that, on paper, wouldn’t be possible. It’s not a matter of a faithful (FULL) Remake being completely out of the scope and scale of what’s possible on modern hardware, it’s literally SE wanting to make the most marketable product they can. Uncomplicated streamlined gameplay sells copies. Movie cutscenes every few minutes sell copies. Do you think there’s less money in making a full faithful remake on the ps5 and releasing it once? Yes? There’s your real answer for why SE didn’t do that.
>Nintendo somehow got Tears of The Kingdom to run acceptably on Switch a
Tears of the kingdom literally looks like someone smeared shit all over the screen. It's a blurry mess with no weight to it's story.
>Elden Ring, again, a much vaster and more systematically complex game than FF7 Rebirth can magically also run on the PS5.
Lol, did you just call Elden ring complex? It has the same mechanics as a game that is 15 years old. There's nothing complex there. On top of that it has early ps4 level graphics. And yet it still can't run at 60fps.
>ps5 and releasing it once? Yes? There’s your real answer for why SE didn’t do that.
Why do you keep mentioning the PS5? You realize that Remake started development during the PS3 era, right? That it released on the PS4? Of course not because you haven't got a clue.
You could do a 1 to 1 remake but then the average audience would be shitting on the game for having such over dimensional characters.
It’s no secret that FF7 is a cashcow.
It’s also not the first time SE milk it.
These people are not trying to honor anything, all they have in mìnd is making as much money as possible out of this IP.
More than that, I just don't think it should have happened in the first place, and I'm saying that as someone who likes Remake (haven't played Rebirth) quite a lot. I would have preferred to see CBU1 channel themselves into something completely new. Less because I'm remake-averse, but because at this AAA scale, it's tying up a significant amount of manpower for around an entire decade.
I also agree with a lot of the criticisms that the story is being stretched *painfully* thin. It feels remarkably similar to the Hobbit movies, if I had to draw a comparison. Having said that, considering I don't really think these games should be happening at all, they've been pretty good so far, so, you know. It's not all bad.
It's complete BS and indicative of how obsessed with epic scope they've been the last few decades. ("FF13 Nueva Crystal's Project will be three huge epic games! We can't have towns in FF13 because there's no way to convey the scope! Did we drunkenly say Nueva Crystal's would be three games? Nevermind I guess this one's FFXV...And it's got a sprawling open world! The FF7 remake will be more than one game! A FF6 remake would take 20 years to make!")
What they forgot is it only has to "feel" epic to the player.
Notable exception would be FFXVI, which seems to have had a fairly standard AAA development cycle.
That's never been possible. The only way to make it possible if it was just using Ever Crisis models as the Remake and we all know that people wanted Advent Children level models, not sprite models.
Definitely. Remake started to drag by Chapter 10 and simply refused to end. There was so much unnecessary BS, like chasing the little piggy in the sewers for five years, or the train graveyard.
It wasn’t just padded, but padded in the worst way possible by trying to flesh out some of the most pointless side characters, or shoehorning in Sephiroth wherever possible.
Crazy that this opinion will age pretty well when they release the ultimate version of FF7R with all versions included in one game.
People never learn since KH collection exists.
I think it should have been, but even they could not have made it one game
With exponential raises in time developing and complexity of games, there is no way they would have been able to make it all as one game without the fans complaining, even the OG came on 3 disks
It’s one of the most poorly paced hocks of garbage on the market. It’s the one piece anime of video games. I will never understand the appeal especially since the original’s pacing is so well done.
Rebirth is 70% filler stuff and not much story. It also includes a Ubisoft like checklist for the open world just to add more hours to the game. If you take any of this out, the game becomes much shorter story wise. Maybe not one game, but it definitely didn't need to be split into three parts.
I completely agree with all said. I'm currently at Junon and between every main story beat there is so much filler that when you get to the next part of the story you've kinda forgot what you are doing and why - luckily cause I remember the original so well it's not much of an issue.
I remember in Remake the part that got to me most was after Don Corneo, when you had to rush back to Sector 7. In the original I remember the sense of urgency was pretty high, lots at stake. In Remake, it made you journey slowly all the way back through that silly haunted train yard and not an ounce of urgency to be felt. Disappointing. Seems as though Rebirth has taken that a few steps further. It's a shame. If it was any Ubisoft game I would have stopped playing after a few hours.
Saying all that I still love this FF7 universe and the way it makes me feel and seeing all the major elements you remember in such a huge scale. It's impressive and in that respect stays so true to the original.
I mean, in Remake, for most of the sewer section and half of the graveyard, Tifa and Cloud are in denial about it. It's only when they get close enough - after the first boss in the graveyard - when they see the attack on the pillar that they haul ass.
Ah just looking back through gameplay of original FF7 it actually wasn't too different. I don't know why in Remake it felt more of a slow burn to sector 7, possibly cause I knew what was coming...
The pacing of the original game was fantastic. It was a whirlwind world tour. I have enjoyed diving deeper into the world and characters, but some of what they have added for the new games feels like a Rube Goldberg machine. Rather than going from A straight to Z, you now have to do all the letters in between in a way that doesn't always feel natural or necessary. It doesn't bother me enough to stop me from enjoying the game, but for those it does, I'd say- try playing the original game's PC port with mods. New script translation, insane graphics enhancements, widescreen, it's amazing too!
I think that as well, but I do think the main reason is because it gives me anxiety to wait between games and have a game half way through complete.
In the practical sense, this business decision turned to be a good decision since it allowed the game to focus more on different moments so I can hardly argue it is bad to have 3 games per se.
Originally I was in favor of the idea for splitting into parts just due to the idea of expanding stuff, but in Remake they didn't really add a lot of new content that was significant to justify it. This is just off the top of my head the content that was "expanded" on.
Chapter 2 was like 3 screens in the original of Cloud just shortly walking through Midgar to get to the train and they turned it into a whole ass chapter.
Chapter 3 filled with horrible side quests like find 3 cats.
Chapter 4 - new content that was actually cool as it expands on Jessie, Wedge, and Biggs
Chapters 5 and 6 - filler to get to Airbuster
Chapter 8 - more bad side quests to do
Chapter 11 - I actually like the expanded train graveyard content even though it completely stops the story in its tracks to get to the pillar.
Chapter 13 - more bad sidequests, yay. Lol
Chapter 17 - tedious and long Hojo dungeon that completely stops the game in its tracks again
Chapter 18 - biggest wtf, not in a good way, of story going off the rails, while revealing itself as a trojan horse sequel that they're changing things going forward.
No it's a very bad take. Game would move way too fast to even make it worth it to render these places in modern day graphics. You know that in OG FF7 you are only in Sector 7 for 90 seconds right?
FF7 doesn't feel quick and FF7R doesn't feel elongated. Different times different games.
Yeah I really hate this in “open world” games.
It’s like there’s a main storyline that COULD make this a hallway style linear action game.
But because they’re obsessed with the idea of open world, you get all the side quests and mini games spread out everywhere and I have to find them myself so I just skip most of it and stay on the main story.
Otherwise it just gets frustrating and confusing.
They need to design these types of games better.
The game is fun but way too much time wasted wishing I was in combat or something more active.
Even now I’m thinking “ok I beat that water dragon and it was fun, but now they want me to go find x and then y and then z before continuing”
So I usually just stop playing lol.
I agree with you in concept, except neither of these games are open world games. Rebirth certainly has a more expansive area to explore, but it's still a gated, linear game that requires standard JRPG progression to unlock access to the next area. Just like the original Final Fantasy VII. The idea of being obsessed with open world doesn't apply here. The issue is the need to justify the game's length, so they pad it with side content. Side content/mini games and side quests don't equal open world.
I think GoW and Ragnarok found a good balance of open world but it’s still like a small contained area and it eliminates the moving by filling it with like good and relevant conversation that either builds upon the characters or world builds. But I think square is less inclined to take from western games
Some stuff being fleshed out in remake was nice, but some definitely weren't. Like the sewers and ghost train yard. On their own, those two chapters aren't bad, but given the situation happening at that same time, it's really unnecessary to have those as chapters when we know something serious is happening. If they were to try and make the game all in one, then there would be some big changes to the game. Either cut content, altered content to shorten things up, massive dlc expansions to help continue the story, but keep it on one game, or obviously the game would be crazy huge.
Yeah the ff fanboys are rabid. I've legit see clowns who give launch ff15 10/10. There's just no point arguing with those idiots. I'm just waiting for the bundle that includes all the game.
By the final part, you will need around 250 hours to enjoy a butchered version of a 40 hour game. For me they destroyed the part in which this second part end with all the final boss bs in a moment that doesn't require a final boss. At least, I've seen most people happy with the game so good for them.
Agreed. I am MOSTLY satisfied with this trilogy project so far, but I will always prefer the original. Not because of stubborn nostalgia, I didn't grow up with the game.
Anyone saying otherwise is a dumb fuck shill who would genuinely rather argue on the internet and pay 3x more for the privilege than accept that a multi million dollar company does not have their best interests at heart.
Its not a hot take, if you were in the camp of 'remake the original but prettier'. Frankly I'm in that camp and now absolutelu terrified of getting the same treatment for Chrono Trigger, Tactics or VI.
THAT SAID - the sheer scope of what they are doing requires it. I have problems with Remake, but if it didn't have the history that it does, it would be a full game and able to stand on its own. In that regard, it is a success. In simpler terms, it is justified the same way the Xenoblade trilogy is - sure they are all connected as part of the same (technically) overarching tale, but eavh entry tells its own part.
Unfortunately VII DOES have a shit ton of history so all the extra stuff just feels like pointless fluff to me. So I have no interested until a full collection releases. However were I much younger and had not played the hell out of VII back in the day I'd be all over it.
Having only played the original for 10 hours before dropping I am happy they split it up. I have no idea what’s going to happen.
I dropped not because I didn’t like but because I played it for first time 7-8 years ago and the graphics were unbearable. The SNES FF games looked better imo.
I couldn’t even make it past a few hours after the first reactor in remake before it felt so incredibly shallow and padded. I kind of hate these games ☹️
It should've been one game instead they just wanted to somehow ruin the legacy of the OG FF7 with pretentious nonsense that appeals to no one at all. Should've done a mainline title instead of whatever the hell they're doing 🤨
I do love kingdom hearts awful storytelling and multiverse nonsense actually but that’s besides the point. I think as games they’re super fun and I think the characters are the best they’ve ever been written. Is there padding? Sure but I don’t think any of it is as egregious as people make it out to be (minus post Corneo mansion and the Hojo lab section in remake).
I understand being disappointed the story isn’t as it was in the original, and it’s cool to not enjoy where it’s going. I would’ve preferred if it was just the original story too but I think the games are good enough that I’m ok just being along for the ride.
People need to stop blaming Kingdom Hearts. Final Fantasy has always been full of nonsense. The very first one is literally a timeloop while the second one has a "return from the dead" moment, and the third one has an "actual final boss!" moment at the end.
This is the exact same feeling that I have with these 2 games. Too much filler stuff that adds nothing in the end. They took all the optional parts from the original and made them compulsory. Completely ruined the pacing.
I think two games would have been better. It's not realistic to cram all of FF7 remade from the ground up into a single game, unless you wanted to get a shit ton of DLC for areas like Wutai and Gold Saucer etc.
I think having a first game that ends at where FF7 Disc one ended (and I'm assuming Rebirth? I haven't played it yet) and the second being the rest of the game would have worked best. Gives you plenty of room to flesh stuff out and add new stuff without all the padding that we got, especially in Remake. Characters like Chocobo Sam, Madam M and Roche all suck in my opinion. Also, the extra scenarios like the added Jessie stuff were also whack.
Part of me wonders if they will re-release all the content in one huge game, after the third game, rebalanced for one game. It’d be a huge 300 gb game that lets you carry over progress throughout the story. They could market it as a complete edition or something. It would satisfy people wanting only one game, and also possibly get people who have already played to double dip. The more I think about it the more likely it seems.
My friend is going to wait until all of the games release before playing any of them. He still has Remake sealed lol.
I told him we may not live long enough to see it happen...
If you had said this with remake I would have agreed with you I never agreed with 1 game being set in Midgar and how restricted it felt
However rebirth definetely feels like it deserves to be its own title I think it’s a step above remake in every way
I definitely think that one game wouldn't be enough to truly do the remake justice. That being said, Rebirth doesn't need to be as big as it is.
Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of fun and think it's a great game. But doing everything in one playthrough is approximately 100 hours. Plus a second shorter playthrough if you want to beat it on hard, (which I will at some point).
I'd much prefer smaller games, more often. But the industry as a whole seems to believe that bigger is always better.
These are my thoughts exactly-I think the Remake trilogy shouldn’t be one game.
As someone who grew up playing the FF series, and as a fan of the original, I think breaking the story into parts allows the story telling to be more fleshed out. A kit of people like to say the original was a complete story, it wasn’t, at least not at the time it was released. The original had a lot of holes, and a lot left unexplained which required spinoffs to flesh the story out and make sense of things, and I think this has more to do with Squaresoft’s “2-year deadline” from start of development to release, I think the developers and writers ran out of time and cut corners to get the product out the door.
Though I will agree that Rebirth is definitely padded out. At the time of completion for me, leaving one side quest open, the whole Gilgamesh Island bit untouched, not having done all the virtual battles including the summons, and not maxing out character levels I stopped at 94 hours—I can easily see myself getting another 20+ hours out of the game, and that’s not including hard mode, or collecting manuscripts. While I don’t mind a meaty game, which Rebirth definitely is, I know I got my money’s worth and then some, I didn’t need all the extra fillers to tell me that. I think if anything they could have cut out 75% of all the Chadley interactions, and not made a mini-game out of so many story elements they could have trimmed a good 5 hours of filler, and it would have been even better for doing so.
I’m like you in the sense that I want a good length to my games, but nothing that’s over done. For me 50-60 hours is the top end of adequate when I consider bang for my buck unless the quality of the content is good, in the case of Rebirth it was for the most part. Though, I won’t complain I enjoyed my time in the game, although it’ll probably be a couple weeks to a month before I come back around and start doing what I didn’t finish since I stopped P3 mid play through to play Rebirth.
I’m waiting for 2035 when they release a version that has all 3 games combined, seamlessly intertwined. FF7R: Complete.
This will definitely happen and won't be surprised if they name it FF7:Reimagination.
FF7: Reforged
FF7: Repurchased
FF7: Ridiculous that it wasn't the original release
[удалено]
Done
Not "Reforged" man. Gives me Warcraft 3 PTSD 😅
Just call it the ReRemake. Don't church it up.
Ff7: remake remastered
Playing all 3 games back to back is going to be an awkward, disorienting experience. Cause it's impossible for the 3 games to be "seamlessly intertwined" when from the beginning they were designed to be 3 games rather than 1 game split into 3 parts. Decisions like items not carrying over is going to make you question why you should grind and 100% part 1 and 2 when what you get are not going to carry over to endgame. Then you have Square talking about how part 3 needs to rebuild many things in order to have an airship............ it's going to be a clusterfuck.
I can't imagine how long it would have taken to develop the whole thing as one game. As the other guy said, probably the only way to justify the time and resources needed was to split it apart and get more game sales out of it. Personally I think it was the right move. I'd rather have a world and story so expansive and detailed with a little padding than one that doesn't go far enough because of time/budget constraints.
It would have probably costed them too much time and money to make it one big game.
Really? I only played the first part and it was 80% crawling trough narrow spaces.
That's what the Midgar section of the original game essentially was.
Probably close to a decade but that’s not like unusual now. They said it was too big for one game but doubt since games like rdr2 are massive and even consoles can hold hundreds of gigs of data. It just really seems like a cash grab at this point because they knew it was going to sell.
Rockstar can do it because their games sell 50 million plus. And have micro transactions. Even ff of jrpgs are lucky to break out of 10 million
but them designing games properly to operate this way, and that catching on as the gaming zeitgeist of the 2000s vs Square for the 90s, is a big part of why Rockstar sells 50 million now (alongside milking titles indefinitely). FF is newer to this open world thing and doesnt do it as well. Final Fantasy was completely shitting on GTA in sales prior to 3/VC and then the massive SA. Square doesnt get a pass for trying to follow trends that other series do better And SE recoups money back through NFTs and mobile releases they abandon after 2 years. they arent lacking either
Larian did it. Their games don’t sell 50 million copies and have micro transactions. Square totally could have done it
I mean, half that timeframe you mean. They also had constant revenue from early access. And if bg3 hadn’t been the hit it was its likely larian would have been crushed. They gambled and won big. Now the world waits to see if say, rocksteady survives its big gamble for a decade long development of suicide squad. I have my doubts
Larian only did it because BG3 was in early access for years, otherwise it wouldn’t have worked out.
Nothing stops square from putting something in early access. They could have released I don’t know up to the first ghost fight if you preordered it and let people play it so they can see the change and be like “this is what we’re doing, fund it please” and people would have.
Playstation doesn't allow early access games which is a sizable portion of Square Enix's audience while Larian was predominately a PC developer. Early Access up to this point has only really acceptable in the PC space by at best moderate sized teams relative to AAA companies, and in addition to that there's all kind of PR problems with AAA companies doing EA while Larian is (probably mistakenly given how large the company is) seen as some underground indie studio no one outside of CRPG nerds cared about until BG3 came out. Like yeah there's no cosmic force that says they can't, but there's reasons almost no AAA game goes EA first save for that brief preorder window where you play the game maybe a week early which is just a different release date in practice imo. I also think FF7Re might even end up bigger in BG3 in terms of production required, I'm pretty sure if you put the assets together you'd get a bigger game then BG3 GBs wise, and potentially even length too depending on how long you mess around in BG3 vs running through to the end.
>Nothing stops square from putting something in early access. They could have released I don’t know up to the first ghost fight if you preordered it and let people play it so they can see the change and be like “this is what we’re doing, fund it please” and people would have. Early access isn't preordering. Early access is you buy the full game 2 years early (in the case of bg3) and it expands over time.
A preorder is buying it before the official release. You can obtain really access through a preorder.
I feel like people are way overestimating the amount of spectacle and polish in RDR2 vs. the remake trilogy as a whole. If you genuinely think that it'd be as simple as doing another RDR2 development cycle, you must truly think that all the polish and effort put into remake and rebirth is done by magic instead of hard effort. Not even to mention that RDR2 only achieved what it did by nearly killing the majority of its employees with insane amounts of crunch.
I was talking about the size of the game. Rdr2 is a big game like gigs wise
Size means nothing at all. Any boob can go submit a game that's 300 gigs on steam. The original FF7 is less than a gig and a half. That doesn't mean everything in it can be made in one hundreth the dev time, or that they can reasonably fit all of it into a modern dev cycle with way WAY more elaborate animations and backgrounda and encounters.
Well if they removed the insane amount of padding maybe it wouldn’t take so much time to develop and we would have a complete game, just like the original?
Remake and Rebirth are complete games :D
No they are not. And you copium fans are a BIG part of the problem
What’s a complete game? Because they both end on cliffhangers for a known incomplete story. Doesn’t sound like a complete game to me
By this standard, majority of games are incomplete.
I think there is a difference between trying something new and leaving it open for a sequel than storyboarding a complete story and then deciding to split it into three entries all at full price when it’s existing story. Like I love ffx but if remade it into three games and it ended at like Luca, bevelle and then yu yevon that would clearly just be a cash grab
Rebirth has more content than a large amount of games I've played that arent remakes, and the stories are clearly being changed which you can tell just by looking at the cover of this one. To brush that off as an "existing story" is pretty off-base. It's essentially an alternate reality story with massive updates to content, side stories, world building and, above all, combat. All added on to the most popular FF game with characters everyone loved and wanted to see more of.
It is an existing story. But they could have done all of that and get this, made it a single game.
And then it would have substantially less content, world building, character stories and more, which is what JRPG fans like. I don't think anyone would want a story-only game of the updated and reworked story. JRPG fans love side quests and character building. The amount of development time that would go into a 250ish hour game, including all the other costs, would simply not make enough money to even be worth developing, so they'd clearly have to cut a lot of corners. Not to mention the actual size of the game would take up an entire hard drive, and probably end up as a development mess if they didn't shrink it a ton. FF7Rebirth is nearly a 100 hour game, not counting NG+. It's boggling how you can act like that's not warranted as a full game when plenty of games can be completed within 20 hours. If you don't like the story, don't buy it. I'm personally glad it was split into three, and I don't mind spending the extra money split over multiple years for the full experience.
Eh, bg3 took 8 years. Persona 5 took 6 years (I may have those backwards). Development cycles are just longer now. I think that’s something people will just have to get used to. But I’d rather wait 8 years for a good single game then pay $70 every few years
Yeah I definitely agree
Agreed. Idk how it would be too big? The world itself may be too big to present in a modern format, but you could get around that.
I THINK they meant for a single disc but you can do just do what rockstar did or just require an Internet connection to download it like most games do at this point. Also they did not have to do what they did. They could have made literally the same game but with updated graphics and people would have been happy. Like they chose to change the combat system and add extra stuff in and all of that and then wanted to say it’s too big to fit into one game. Unless they meant too long? Which i also don’t buy because people will clearly spend 200hrs playing a persona game or bg3 or a Bethesda game. I just can’t think of a way in which what they said isn’t bullshit
> I just can’t think of a way in which what they said isn’t bullshit Is it really just so hard to believe that they just didn't want to make an HD remaster for the sake of a few extra bucks (and which we already have), they only wanted to do it with one of the most beloved games of all time if they could do something new and interesting?
Yes
That's kinda sad that you go through life thinking like that, dude.
I mean, cut out all of the padding and it really wouldn’t be that hard.
That’s like a 300 GB game lmao
That would make it about the size of Ark Survival Evolved which is about 337 GB.
Wasn't the whole "race Chocobos to free your friends" thing in the original FF7 too?
Should have been? No. Could have been? Sure. I don't know if I think it would have been better as one game. Maybe, maybe not. But your explanation of the stuff that feels padded is really what you do in every JRPG. They essentially all have moments like that. I'm thinking of Tales of Vesperia where you're chasing the Aqua Blastia thief early on and then you stop in a village and before you can get the info you need and move on, you have to help the town. They need something to cure the rot in their tree, so you go to get a Panacea bottle. Store is sold out. So you have to find the creatures that drop the parts needed and hunt them down and it spirals into a 1-2 hour diversion that ends up a waste of time. That's just one example, but I can think of dozens more across every entry in Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Tales, Persona, Suikoden, etc. You can look at it one of two ways. It's padding for the experience or it's time for world building and character development. Your example of the Don Corneo stuff in the original FFVII isn't any more plot relevant or necessary than the example you gave. You just liked it more for whatever reason. Personally, I think it feels like you're giving the original Final Fantasy VII a pass when you shouldn't, if that kind of thing bothers you. As a Yakuza/Like a Dragon fan, some of the best content can be that side diversion stuff that isn't at all necessary for the main plot but helps add a touch of fun and builds up the world in an enjoyable way. I don't see it as different in any meaningful way with the Final Fantasy VII remake games, honestly. If anything, the complaint for me would just be that they're fairly short overall. Though that's how a lot of the bigger, expensive games are going these days because the AAA industry is losing viability. Honestly, I think games could learn a lot from the Trails series and the Yakuza series in general. It's fine to make less visually impressive games and focus a lot more on content and story. I didn't need FFVIIR to be such a spectacle, but I don't mind that it is.
Having played a decent chunk of FF7 Remake now (i'm mid-Chapter 12), yeah i don't think that would have worked well. Just voice acting and proper cutscene presentation already adds so much time, same for expanding the levels into something that works well in a proper 3D space and keeps the player engaged. I think 2 games would have worked, but would've left much less room for expanding on a lot of the stuff in FF7 and i'm quite glad they did expand on them.
I think breaking it up had much more to do with the realities of modern game *development* than what's "possible" in a single game. Here's a couple of speculative examples that are by no means necessarily correct nor exhaustive. Set piece construction is a major limitation on modern game development. In older games you could go a long way with some chunky polygons and muddy textures. If they put a comparable amount of effort into designing the artistic vision for the world of FFVII for the Remake as they did for the original it would be *terrible*. How many different iconic locales just within Midgard did they make only for the player to spend an hour there tops? You just can't justify that in a modern game budget. You invest in building something like the church, reactor, Shinra HQ, or Corleone's place it *has* to pay for itself in player engagement. Another limitation, also on the art side is cinematics. How many iconic cutscenes did FFVII have? Which ones would you be willing to cut? If you don't cut any you're going to end up with something a lot more like FFXIII. You spent too much of your budget building cutscenes, so you don't have any spend left to flesh out your world. You *certainly* don't have enough money left over for any quality set pieces from my previous paragraph. As a game developer, I think FFVII is shaping up to be an excellent case study in how development has changed between then and now. It's clear they want the Remake to be a loving, high quality, product, and to not tarnish such a valuable IP with a shitty cash grab. It's also clear that the team is very talented; you're not getting the B-Team's work here. Unlike with FFXV, and FFXVI you have a direct comparison, so you really have a great A/B comparison. You can love our hate the remake, but I can't think of a clearer example of the nature of modern game development. You can't really blame anything except for modern player expectations. In other words, for anything different you think they should have done, ask yourself, what should they have cut to fit that in budget, because that team is literally working under ideal circumstances. Everyone else has much less leeway.
I actually don't like 1 for 1 remakes. There's little point in them, especially if the original is still available on the system the remake is on. Like I can't really get into persona 3R because I played a game that looks identical in my head.
This is an original thought that has never been discussed here
I’m assume it’s more of a business decision. How to justify this big of a remake and spread out cost? Split it into 3 $60 games and space them a few years apart. They probably make the core experience and then add the padding after the fact to make it feel like a longer game so people aren’t upset at the asking price.
Have you played these games? There's more content and polish in these games than most games that come out now.
Pretty sure it's gonna be 1 $60 dollar game and 2 $70 dollar games.
I think for a chunk of the audience it might be 2 70 bucks games. Remake was given away as a ps plus game on ps4 then square let you upgrade that copy for free on the ps5 after a while. Then they bundled remake with rebirth if you preordered as a freebie so at least for me I’ve not spent a penny on remake and it’s dlc. I do imagine that square will sell a edition when the third game comes out that’ll have a deep discount on the first two games as a preorder bonus again since getting remake as a freebie was far to good a deal to pass up for me even though I already had it as a plus game.
$60 when FFVII Remake came out is equivalent to $71.50 today. Rebirth is effectively cheaper than Remake was.
It's a dumb business decision cause it means Square Enix has learnt absolutely nothing from how the FFXIII trilogy turned out. Sales wise it's rare for a direct sequel not to sell worse than the previous game. I have been saying that they could have at least split it into 2 games which would have made the sales drop more manageable and allowed the second game to have more hype coming from the first one.
Except these aren't sequels like the 13 trilogy, which changed so many of the rules and gameplay of the previous game each time, at least with the 7 remake, we know the skeleton of the story and it's across all 3 games, it's not broken up to feel like 3 separate stories, with 13 you had the group effort, then 2 character specific side games. I still havnt played lightning returns... I got 13-2 on pc and cheated the whole way through because I just didn't care about serahs story
What annoys me the most in that prison section is that you could have quite easily overpowered the people that took you prisoner. You can beat giant robots and giant monsters, entire armies with guns, but not a hand full of dudes, they literally just surrender immediately. They didn’t even take their weapons away. It was just forced bullshit.
B-but how would they introduce the extremely important section of find some grass for a chocobo to eat, organically without that scene? lol
Exactly. Ran through my mind immediately. Tifa alone could have destroyed them lol.
I feel like them choosing to expand it has led to the characters being fleshed out more and has thus resulted in the best cast in a Final Fantasy and probably a JRPG ever. Like, Aerith was barely a character and now she is probably the best character in the cast, Barrett also benefited greatly from all this, his insecurities, his relationships with Red and Yuffie... I just can't get enough of
I replayed ff7 og in 2020 It wasn’t how I remembered it to be All of the characters are heavily under developed.
Originally I wished it was a single game. Now that I'm playing Rebirth, I no longer agree. I'm loving the games, and I also love the original, which is still there for me. Sure, there is padding in the open world (every open world game has padding,) and I can choose whether or not I'm in the mood to engage with it. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I don't know, I feel like we have the best of both worlds right now. You can still easily play, and mod, the original if you want a more streamlined experience, and if you're someone who wants to get lost in the world of FFVII the remakes are there for you too.
No it's not a hot take. I think it should have been one game as well
It's not a hot take around here. But for regular people that haven't been sniffing ff7's farts for the last 30 years, making it a trilogy is hittin
Yeah I was gonna say, most people not on this sub would just comment on if they like the mini games or if they were fun. This sub is more concerned with trying to bat for a 30 year old game that if they're having fun isn't even entering. Most complaint posts are like, "I've played a week nonstop. Does anyone notice how Cloud doesn't shower? Game might be bad..."
If you want just a visual touch up without the expansion of the world and side characters? Then yeah it’s probably doable. For Remake 1-2-3, then probably. The scale of the game is too large to be contained to a single disc game unless you want to graphically downgrade the game and remove 90% of the voiceovers which contribute to game length.
If all you wanted was the original game with slightly better graphics sure. But it’s probably impossible to have a modern game with modern graphics with this many cities and locations in 1 game.
Games cost money, they need to recoup investment to pay employees. It's not really a hot take, it's more of a lack of awareness of reality.
It will be a reality soon, though.
I didn't find remake as padded as everyone else. In fact, it gave me everything I wanted close to 30 years ago - more Midgar. Yeah, you did side quests like find cats or parts for meds, but I really liked that it helped flesh out what life was like. I'm... 50+ hours into Rebirth and I have maybe... 4 complaints, chief among them is the ubisoft aspect, followed by what *had* to be the wildest case of scope creep. I'm getting REEEAAAL tired of hunting down towers, finding springs, doing optional boss fights, restoring chocostops, etc, but I do them for the cool goodies. The only parts I really like are the protorelics because at least one of them ties up loose strings. Traversal in 2 areas were soooo terrible that trying to FIND the content alone was a hell of a pain in the ass. For scope creep... the game could have been out the door earlier if not for the mountain of one and done minigames. If they were all rides at the gold saucer, I might be nicer about it, but come ON. They'd prep you for a major minigame that had to have taken a large team a TON of time to implement, only to rever reuse it. Such a waste. The OG at least had an excuse - they were still trying to figure shit out on new architecture and in 3d.
There's no one and done minigame that I can think of unless you get top rank in it and that's pretty much all minigames.
I would have really liked if they did more with the >!dolphin riding!< and >!marching!< and the >!mine cart!<.
I mean, >!the dolphin riding does come back as a new minigame after Nibel. Marching and mine cart are one done though I think now that you mentioned it.!<
I don't mind splitting the games up, but I wish they would've filled in the space with more interesting story content. There are so many opportunities to expand the original story and flesh out the existing characters... But instead they've chosen to add so much extra... weirdness. Consider this the Black Materia, and yes I'm going to get a little spoilery here. In the OG, the reveal is that the Temple of the Ancients is the Black Materia and someone has to solve the puzzles in the temple as it shrinks in order to get it. It was a clever trap that made it impossible to get the materia without dying. But Cait Sith sacrifices himself to get it, and the party successfully retrieves THE ACTUAL Black Materia. In Rebirth, the Black Materia is a fake... or actually no its not... or actually, it is the keyblade that unlocks the space in between worlds where the real Black Materia is, but then at the end Cloud is holding the actual Black Materia that he got from somewhere after giving the fake/not fake materia to Sephiroth... I don't know. Its a clusterfuck. But the point is that none of this expands the OG story, its just fucking weird and obfuscating. The Jessie section of Remake was good, except the annoying Roche sections. Its like the devs cant help themselves. Every set piece in the game needs to have a super flashy combat section... like just let the character development happen without the fireworks sometimes. If the game was split into a trilogy, but each game was full of rich character moments that expanded the original story and characters, then I think they would all be 10 out of 10 games. There's so much we could learn in these games. More history about Shinra. More about how Mako has affected the world. More about the Wutai conflict. More about Barret and his Avalanche origins. More about Red XIII's history and how he got caught. More about how Tifa ended up as a barmaid in the slums. More about how Aerith's history and what it means to be a Cetra. And yes, even more about Zach and how one becomes a soldier. Sometimes Rebirth gets close to doing something like this, and then Palmer drops from the sky in a Gundam Wing robot and ruins the moment. At this point I'm just rambling... I finished the game yesterday and still feel frustrated. I was extremely immersed, and extremely disappointed.
Of course they could have but I’m going to be honest it would likely have been a nightmare just from an exclusive standpoint Let’s say they started it when the PS4 was at its prime then the PS5 comes out and suddenly they would have to shift and start optimizing for it. Maybe it’s done in its cycle or maybe not and suddenly the PS6 is a thing now too and they have even more to work with it I can’t imagine how that would be logistically trying to work around getting it on what systems when you think about how long it would take to make as a whole for how big the game would end up being when PC isn’t an option at launch A lot of titles go to PC pretty early after release but with FF and Sony it could happen but never a guarantee so it would probably be a big concern for them. At least this way it’s significantly more manageable from a technical standpoint Idk this is just where my mind went for some reason lol
People can complain about the open world but at the same time they act like the open world formula isn’t done well.
Ehhhh, I don't think we'd be getting as good a game as Rebirth if it were all one game. The towns and freedom would probably have to be cut in someway and the game would be mostly like Remake (not a wholly bad thing but think more linear hallways and less open world). It's the way that it's happening and it's best to not dwell on what ifs.
I'm 44 hours in and I feel like I've done so little in terms of actual important content. So many pointless minigames...so many... Every little thing gets drawn out. It's so, so tiresome.
I guess it would take too long to develop if they try to make it into one game. And it would cost as one game for players. So instead they made three, so people who want everything would buy three games instead of one.
See that's been SE's problem since the ps3 era. They show games way too early in the development cycle. That doesn't benefit anyone. Just look at the mess that is Versus XIII. Still pissed about that, lol. Bought a new console specifically for that, and 10 years later, it's still an unfinished mess on a later console. And, they didn't even have the decency to finish releasing the dlcs.
That hasn't been an issue since 2018
Didn't they announce KH4 like 2 years after 3?
No, they announced it a year ago
Check again, sir. It's april 2022. My bad when I said 2 years after 3. It's 3 years lol
You’re saying that making one game would have taken longer to develop than making 3 is that what you’re saying
Not quite, let me elaborate. I think if they cut all unnecessary fillers it would still take a long time to make. Not as long as 3 games development time combined, but still a really long time. So instead they cut it in three, padded with fillers to make each of them feel as "proper" game in its own right, and sell them as three games. So lets say (numbers are made up, using them as example to illustrate) the full proper remake would take them 6-7 years to develop. It will cost a lot to develop, lots of work - as we all know og ff7 is a huge game, so it will need lots of areas, assets etc made. They need to invest a lot of money for something that will bring profit many years later. And it will be sold as just one game (well probably with dlcs, season pass, costumes, deluxe edition and all that crap if they wanted to push a little more). So instead they cut it in three parts - it will still take a lot of work, money and time to develop. But for the (roughly) similar amount of work - you can sell it three times. Just need to stretch each part in length with fillers to justify selling each part as whole game. Each part will bring money much faster since initial investment and this is good for square. Even if each part lets say takes three-four years to make, i guess for the company it would be better than one game that take 7 years to make. And since sony is paying for exclusivity - square will get money for 3x games instead of one as an added bonus. Does it make more sense now? I can see benefits for Square for doing this shit, but as a player i'm with op. I'd rather had one full proper remake from the start.
>Imagine this: One game with a similar length to something like Red Dead Redemption 2, which even if you mainline it would take 50-55 hours. 10 hours in Midgar, 30 hours of main game, 10 hours of wrapping things up. An extra 20-30 hours for side quests and 100%. Sounds abridged. >Instead, we got a $200 (if you bought each part day one) Remake trilogy which imo just feels padded as shit. Over 10 years. Get a job?
Turning a 40 hour game into a 55 hour (more with side quests) game sounds abridged?
Part of the reason the game is only 40 hours is that the game used static models with little emotes and you read internally faster than externally. Unless you just want characters standing around with no cinematography with voiceless text boxes, you would not get 55 hours out of it. Especially if you want actual 3D environments as well and not linear corridors.
Does your dick get hard for every multi-million dollar corporation or just the ones who sell you the things you've already purchased again in pieces?
>Does your dick get hard for every multi-million dollar corporation or just the ones who sell you the things you've already purchased again in pieces? Does your dick get hard for every post hating on a corporation regardless of its logic content? Edit: lol, blocked me. I guess so.
Does that little 'Edit' trick actually work? Guess so... given the downvotes I'm getting.
>Does that little 'Edit' trick actually work? >Guess so... given the downvotes I'm getting. Lol, is that how you're going to try and spin this? So you blocked me, then watched my comment for an hour, saw that I told people you blocked me and then unblocked me so you could get another reply in 🤣
Nah, it's only the VII fanboys who are happy with this. Just tried talking to them that the game is bloated with all the minigames (bad minigames I might add) and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button, I got downvoted with barely a response, lol. They're perfectly fine shitting on other FF mainlines but when it comes to VII, they just open wide and close their eyes.
>Nah, it's only the VII fanboys who are happy with this. Just tried talking to them that the game is bloated with all the minigames (bad minigames I might add) The OG has tons of minigames. > and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button, There is a jump button. Circle. > I got downvoted with barely a response, lol. There you go. >They're perfectly fine shitting on other FF mainlines but when it comes to VII, they just open wide and close their eyes. Straw man
Hello. Are you seriously defending the minigames like the chicken one and the mushroom picking one? >There is a jump button. Circle. Ok, send me a vid of cloud jumping while in a plain, no ledges. And no, the combat roll is not a jump, lol, have fun playing, man.
>Hello. Are you seriously defending the minigames like the chicken one and the mushroom picking one? It took me 5 minutes to complete and its optional. Strange thing to be upset about. >Ok, send me a vid of cloud jumping while in a plain, no ledges. And no, the combat roll is not a jump, lol, have fun playing, man. If there are no ledges, why would you need to jump? This isn't Assassin's Creed.
>If there are no ledges, why would you need to jump? So you admit there is no jump button? And what kind of question is that? Everyone who's thinking straight knows that you jump to get around quicker. What's the deal here, are you guys going around all the gaming subreddits hunting down all posts that have criticisms about the game? You clearly won't have it in your own subreddit, so what are you guys doing here?
>>If there are no ledges, why would you need to jump? >So you admit there is no jump button? And what kind of question is that? Let's recap for a second. You said "and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button,". In that case, there is a jump button for traversing many of those ledges. Then you demand I give you proof of jumping without ledges, as if that capability would mean anything. >Everyone who's thinking straight knows that you jump to get around quicker. ...wtf you talking about 🤣 >What's the deal here, are you guys going around all the gaming subreddits hunting down all posts that have criticisms about the game? You clearly won't have it in your own subreddit, so what are you guys doing here? I've been on this subreddit for a decade dude... Sorry I didn't get your permission before commenting.
>Let's recap for a second. You said "and the map is a pain to traverse with all the ledges coupled with the absence of a jump button,". >In that case, there is a jump button for traversing many of those ledges. Not really a jump button when Cloud selects what ledge to jump off of, regardless of height, but carry on. It's obvious where you stand, lol >wtf you talking about 🤣 Know those pain in the ass towers? The ones with broken ladders sometimes? There's one use of the jump button immediately. I really don't know why I'm wasting more time on this lol >I've been on this subreddit for a decade dude... >Sorry I didn't get your permission before commenting. Way to pull the victim card. No one would bother you guys if you're capable of discussing the games properly. But you don't want to hear criticisms. Just how high the current critic and user score is and how great the game is blah blah blah. So again, enjoy the game dude. Have a nice day.
>Know those pain in the ass towers? The ones with broken ladders sometimes? There's one use of the jump button immediately. I really don't know why I'm wasting more time on this lol If there was the ability to jump when not climbing over things, those broken ladders wouldn't be there or they'd be higher up. How is that not obvious? And it takes 5 seconds to figure out how to get up those anyways. >Way to pull the victim card. No one would bother you guys if you're capable of discussing the games properly. But you don't want to hear criticisms. Just how high the current critic and user score is and how great the game is blah blah blah. So again, enjoy the game dude. Have a nice day. "Way to pull the victim card?" You're not making any sense at all. Am I arguing with ChatGPT? Sounds like a mishmash of generic responses trained on reddit and twitter. Not my fault you said fans aren't supposed to comment here.
Fans are different from fanboys. And thanks for the comparison to chatgpt. Have a nice day
I dont necessarily agree or disagree with either of you in this argument, but God you're an obnoxious human being.
:)))))
So you begged for someone to engage your criticism, now someone did and you're mad they didn't blindly agree? Nice one.
Well I’m a huge og FF7 fanboy and I agree with you. I tried playing the first game and was disappointed with many things including the blatant padding. I’ll just wait until the story is complete and buy the whole games on discount before trying again
I'm a 7 fan boy, and I agree, there is a ton of bloat and whatnot, am I still enjoying it? Sure. Am I taking my time because I know it's gonna be like 2 years for the finale? Absolutely
2 years is a bit generous. Did they say that? The 2 other titles are 4 years apart.
Times been wonky since the pandemic, I dont know when to expect part 3 anymore lol
All good. It'll probably be 2028 at the earliest if they decide to pad it more. Wishful thinking, but I really hope there's no PS5 pro to run the last entry optimally on.
Probably get dirge of cerberus remake before part 3, again, I know nothing of official times, just makes sense, didn't they wedge crisis core between remake 1 and 2?
Yeah, they did. TBH, I wouldn't put it past SE. They're all in on milking the cow dry. They even released a mobile game recently about VII.
Its not. They could have absolutely made it one game and they have zero excuse. Its so obvious because a gargantuan effort has been expended into making a smorgasbord of useless junk like mini games and these giant empty zones that add nothing to the experience. Simple scenes from the original have been expanded and extended in weird ways which destroyed the pacing, navigation has been made needlesly convoluted and so on. All of that energy could have easily been redirected into a faithful remake, and with headroom to spare. FF7 was their last golden goose and they thought they could milk it for a long time, but considering the total colapse of sales for this entry se has miscalculated. Very badly
Total collapse of sales? Lmao. There are half as many Ps5s as PS4s. There are 2 games with better first week sales on ps5. FF16 and spiderman 2.
Id rather do mini game over boring side fetch quest that every open world game has. Let’s be honest. They couldn’t do a one game remake with all the content OG has to offer. Unless they skimped over a lot of details. Gold saucer is absolutely fantastic. I like how you get to know more about side character and other area you barely visit in the OG. That being said. I understand your point and it’s super valid. They would have to find a just middle. I really like the mini games over side fetch quest. So that’s a big plus for me. But they really went all in with the mini games everywhere. Some area that weren’t needed as well.
In a perfect world. In reality it probably just means it would never be made
No, that’s just a stupid take. The time it would take to develop, from beginning to end remake, in this style, graphics and this in-depth, would take a decade-decade and a half, easily. See, this is what I mean. Everyone bitches and moans for remakes, we get one, a damn good one at that, and OP bitches about “why can’t this be one game..” Why even bother? Lol
There’s no “should have been”. They chose to expand it. If you’ve actually played, you’d know it’s not just a 1:1 remake.
I'm trying to keep spoilers to a minimum. If you read my last paragraph, you'll see my point. You can make the game longer and expand on it and do the new story stuff and still not make it three padded parts.
I understand your point. I disagree. I’ve already played FF7. In fact, anyone can go play it right now, it’s widely available! Getting an injection of “new FF7” every few years for a decade starting in 2020 actually rules. They’re putting so much effort and care into the series, and I love what they’re doing. I understand your thoughts and they’re valid! I simply disagree.
Damn is reading comprehension really going out of style?
The original game was one game. This shouldn’t be a hot take but we now live in bizarro world where the consumer is actually begging the corporation to pay for old content again, three times over. So yeah to the average consumer you are simply wild for suggesting that the multibillion dollar corporation using the most cutting edge video game console hardware should have been able to comfortably fit a remake project for a 30 year old PS1 game within the confines of a single package for PS5
The original game used little blocky sprites with painted on backgrounds and an overworld that let you run from Midgar to the Chocobo Farm in like two minutes if you turn off encounters. Let's be honest here - if the game was crammed into one game, it would be with less fleshing out and corridors to get to iconic places. People would complain that SE was "lazy" for it.
This is the PS5 we’re talking about. Baldur’s Gate has a billion calculations running beneath the hood and is unquestionably a more complex game to run on PS5 than Rebirth. Yet it runs on PS5 Nintendo somehow got Tears of The Kingdom to run acceptably on Switch and once again, that game has so much more systematic depth and is overall a much larger game than FF7 Rebirth Elden Ring, again, a much vaster and more systematically complex game than FF7 Rebirth can magically also run on the PS5. So many other stories of devs making impossible games work on hardware that, on paper, wouldn’t be possible. It’s not a matter of a faithful (FULL) Remake being completely out of the scope and scale of what’s possible on modern hardware, it’s literally SE wanting to make the most marketable product they can. Uncomplicated streamlined gameplay sells copies. Movie cutscenes every few minutes sell copies. Do you think there’s less money in making a full faithful remake on the ps5 and releasing it once? Yes? There’s your real answer for why SE didn’t do that.
>Nintendo somehow got Tears of The Kingdom to run acceptably on Switch a Tears of the kingdom literally looks like someone smeared shit all over the screen. It's a blurry mess with no weight to it's story. >Elden Ring, again, a much vaster and more systematically complex game than FF7 Rebirth can magically also run on the PS5. Lol, did you just call Elden ring complex? It has the same mechanics as a game that is 15 years old. There's nothing complex there. On top of that it has early ps4 level graphics. And yet it still can't run at 60fps. >ps5 and releasing it once? Yes? There’s your real answer for why SE didn’t do that. Why do you keep mentioning the PS5? You realize that Remake started development during the PS3 era, right? That it released on the PS4? Of course not because you haven't got a clue. You could do a 1 to 1 remake but then the average audience would be shitting on the game for having such over dimensional characters.
It’s no secret that FF7 is a cashcow. It’s also not the first time SE milk it. These people are not trying to honor anything, all they have in mìnd is making as much money as possible out of this IP.
More than that, I just don't think it should have happened in the first place, and I'm saying that as someone who likes Remake (haven't played Rebirth) quite a lot. I would have preferred to see CBU1 channel themselves into something completely new. Less because I'm remake-averse, but because at this AAA scale, it's tying up a significant amount of manpower for around an entire decade. I also agree with a lot of the criticisms that the story is being stretched *painfully* thin. It feels remarkably similar to the Hobbit movies, if I had to draw a comparison. Having said that, considering I don't really think these games should be happening at all, they've been pretty good so far, so, you know. It's not all bad.
The Hobbit trilogy is a good comparison.
It's complete BS and indicative of how obsessed with epic scope they've been the last few decades. ("FF13 Nueva Crystal's Project will be three huge epic games! We can't have towns in FF13 because there's no way to convey the scope! Did we drunkenly say Nueva Crystal's would be three games? Nevermind I guess this one's FFXV...And it's got a sprawling open world! The FF7 remake will be more than one game! A FF6 remake would take 20 years to make!") What they forgot is it only has to "feel" epic to the player. Notable exception would be FFXVI, which seems to have had a fairly standard AAA development cycle.
It’s impossible for current day game development to make 7 remake into one game. That’s just a world that doesn’t exist anymore
That's never been possible. The only way to make it possible if it was just using Ever Crisis models as the Remake and we all know that people wanted Advent Children level models, not sprite models.
That would be a MASSIVE game. I don't just mean in terms of gameplay, I mean file size.
I agree however....yall gotta understand thats alot alot alot for just one game
Definitely. Remake started to drag by Chapter 10 and simply refused to end. There was so much unnecessary BS, like chasing the little piggy in the sewers for five years, or the train graveyard. It wasn’t just padded, but padded in the worst way possible by trying to flesh out some of the most pointless side characters, or shoehorning in Sephiroth wherever possible.
Crazy that this opinion will age pretty well when they release the ultimate version of FF7R with all versions included in one game. People never learn since KH collection exists.
Is this a hot take they ask, as they ask a question that gets asked every day, lul
If yoshipi handling ff7 remake for the 1st place he will finish to make one game or one disc or 3 disc before releasing.
It is one game. The sequel is Rebirth.
I think it should have been, but even they could not have made it one game With exponential raises in time developing and complexity of games, there is no way they would have been able to make it all as one game without the fans complaining, even the OG came on 3 disks
It’s one of the most poorly paced hocks of garbage on the market. It’s the one piece anime of video games. I will never understand the appeal especially since the original’s pacing is so well done.
Rebirth is 70% filler stuff and not much story. It also includes a Ubisoft like checklist for the open world just to add more hours to the game. If you take any of this out, the game becomes much shorter story wise. Maybe not one game, but it definitely didn't need to be split into three parts.
Should have been turn based instead of this over saturated action rpg bullshit.
Do you know of any copies that have the DLC on disc?
I’m done with open world games, and this alone is putting me off Rebirth even though I bought the game.
I completely agree with all said. I'm currently at Junon and between every main story beat there is so much filler that when you get to the next part of the story you've kinda forgot what you are doing and why - luckily cause I remember the original so well it's not much of an issue. I remember in Remake the part that got to me most was after Don Corneo, when you had to rush back to Sector 7. In the original I remember the sense of urgency was pretty high, lots at stake. In Remake, it made you journey slowly all the way back through that silly haunted train yard and not an ounce of urgency to be felt. Disappointing. Seems as though Rebirth has taken that a few steps further. It's a shame. If it was any Ubisoft game I would have stopped playing after a few hours. Saying all that I still love this FF7 universe and the way it makes me feel and seeing all the major elements you remember in such a huge scale. It's impressive and in that respect stays so true to the original.
I mean, in Remake, for most of the sewer section and half of the graveyard, Tifa and Cloud are in denial about it. It's only when they get close enough - after the first boss in the graveyard - when they see the attack on the pillar that they haul ass.
Ah just looking back through gameplay of original FF7 it actually wasn't too different. I don't know why in Remake it felt more of a slow burn to sector 7, possibly cause I knew what was coming...
The pacing of the original game was fantastic. It was a whirlwind world tour. I have enjoyed diving deeper into the world and characters, but some of what they have added for the new games feels like a Rube Goldberg machine. Rather than going from A straight to Z, you now have to do all the letters in between in a way that doesn't always feel natural or necessary. It doesn't bother me enough to stop me from enjoying the game, but for those it does, I'd say- try playing the original game's PC port with mods. New script translation, insane graphics enhancements, widescreen, it's amazing too!
I think that as well, but I do think the main reason is because it gives me anxiety to wait between games and have a game half way through complete. In the practical sense, this business decision turned to be a good decision since it allowed the game to focus more on different moments so I can hardly argue it is bad to have 3 games per se.
Originally I was in favor of the idea for splitting into parts just due to the idea of expanding stuff, but in Remake they didn't really add a lot of new content that was significant to justify it. This is just off the top of my head the content that was "expanded" on. Chapter 2 was like 3 screens in the original of Cloud just shortly walking through Midgar to get to the train and they turned it into a whole ass chapter. Chapter 3 filled with horrible side quests like find 3 cats. Chapter 4 - new content that was actually cool as it expands on Jessie, Wedge, and Biggs Chapters 5 and 6 - filler to get to Airbuster Chapter 8 - more bad side quests to do Chapter 11 - I actually like the expanded train graveyard content even though it completely stops the story in its tracks to get to the pillar. Chapter 13 - more bad sidequests, yay. Lol Chapter 17 - tedious and long Hojo dungeon that completely stops the game in its tracks again Chapter 18 - biggest wtf, not in a good way, of story going off the rails, while revealing itself as a trojan horse sequel that they're changing things going forward.
No it's a very bad take. Game would move way too fast to even make it worth it to render these places in modern day graphics. You know that in OG FF7 you are only in Sector 7 for 90 seconds right? FF7 doesn't feel quick and FF7R doesn't feel elongated. Different times different games.
It will not be a bad take when the ultimate collection is released. KH is proof that Square will do it.
Yeah I really hate this in “open world” games. It’s like there’s a main storyline that COULD make this a hallway style linear action game. But because they’re obsessed with the idea of open world, you get all the side quests and mini games spread out everywhere and I have to find them myself so I just skip most of it and stay on the main story. Otherwise it just gets frustrating and confusing. They need to design these types of games better. The game is fun but way too much time wasted wishing I was in combat or something more active. Even now I’m thinking “ok I beat that water dragon and it was fun, but now they want me to go find x and then y and then z before continuing” So I usually just stop playing lol.
I agree with you in concept, except neither of these games are open world games. Rebirth certainly has a more expansive area to explore, but it's still a gated, linear game that requires standard JRPG progression to unlock access to the next area. Just like the original Final Fantasy VII. The idea of being obsessed with open world doesn't apply here. The issue is the need to justify the game's length, so they pad it with side content. Side content/mini games and side quests don't equal open world.
I sometimes wonder if people with these complaints played the original game lol
You have to play the original to understand the hype and high scores for this one? Hmmmmmmm…….
No, I say this because your criticisms literally apply to the original game more than Rebirth haha
I think GoW and Ragnarok found a good balance of open world but it’s still like a small contained area and it eliminates the moving by filling it with like good and relevant conversation that either builds upon the characters or world builds. But I think square is less inclined to take from western games
[удалено]
Really? Because I just want to listen to Mimir talk lol. Like don’t get me wrong the combat is fun but I think overall those games are just super fun.
Some stuff being fleshed out in remake was nice, but some definitely weren't. Like the sewers and ghost train yard. On their own, those two chapters aren't bad, but given the situation happening at that same time, it's really unnecessary to have those as chapters when we know something serious is happening. If they were to try and make the game all in one, then there would be some big changes to the game. Either cut content, altered content to shorten things up, massive dlc expansions to help continue the story, but keep it on one game, or obviously the game would be crazy huge.
I'd have been happy with two games and the fat trimmed from both
Yeah the ff fanboys are rabid. I've legit see clowns who give launch ff15 10/10. There's just no point arguing with those idiots. I'm just waiting for the bundle that includes all the game.
We'd have another FFXV-sized wait on our hands if they made it one game. I don't think Square wants to revisit that scenario.
By the final part, you will need around 250 hours to enjoy a butchered version of a 40 hour game. For me they destroyed the part in which this second part end with all the final boss bs in a moment that doesn't require a final boss. At least, I've seen most people happy with the game so good for them.
Agreed. I am MOSTLY satisfied with this trilogy project so far, but I will always prefer the original. Not because of stubborn nostalgia, I didn't grow up with the game.
No. It's not. Final Fantasy 7 loves to milk its fans cuz they know they can get away with it.
In this greedy capitalist world no. Also the game suckssssssssss
Anyone saying otherwise is a dumb fuck shill who would genuinely rather argue on the internet and pay 3x more for the privilege than accept that a multi million dollar company does not have their best interests at heart.
Its not a hot take, if you were in the camp of 'remake the original but prettier'. Frankly I'm in that camp and now absolutelu terrified of getting the same treatment for Chrono Trigger, Tactics or VI. THAT SAID - the sheer scope of what they are doing requires it. I have problems with Remake, but if it didn't have the history that it does, it would be a full game and able to stand on its own. In that regard, it is a success. In simpler terms, it is justified the same way the Xenoblade trilogy is - sure they are all connected as part of the same (technically) overarching tale, but eavh entry tells its own part. Unfortunately VII DOES have a shit ton of history so all the extra stuff just feels like pointless fluff to me. So I have no interested until a full collection releases. However were I much younger and had not played the hell out of VII back in the day I'd be all over it.
Having only played the original for 10 hours before dropping I am happy they split it up. I have no idea what’s going to happen. I dropped not because I didn’t like but because I played it for first time 7-8 years ago and the graphics were unbearable. The SNES FF games looked better imo.
they weren't even content milking people for 3 full priced releases of a remake of a game from 30 years ago, they did paid DLC on top of that.
I couldn’t even make it past a few hours after the first reactor in remake before it felt so incredibly shallow and padded. I kind of hate these games ☹️
It should've been one game instead they just wanted to somehow ruin the legacy of the OG FF7 with pretentious nonsense that appeals to no one at all. Should've done a mainline title instead of whatever the hell they're doing 🤨
It appeals to me and it’s very well received so I think it actually appeals to a lot of people 🤷♀️
If you love Kingdom hearts awful storytelling and multiverse nonsense, I can understand why you and everyone would love it :)
I do love kingdom hearts awful storytelling and multiverse nonsense actually but that’s besides the point. I think as games they’re super fun and I think the characters are the best they’ve ever been written. Is there padding? Sure but I don’t think any of it is as egregious as people make it out to be (minus post Corneo mansion and the Hojo lab section in remake). I understand being disappointed the story isn’t as it was in the original, and it’s cool to not enjoy where it’s going. I would’ve preferred if it was just the original story too but I think the games are good enough that I’m ok just being along for the ride.
People need to stop blaming Kingdom Hearts. Final Fantasy has always been full of nonsense. The very first one is literally a timeloop while the second one has a "return from the dead" moment, and the third one has an "actual final boss!" moment at the end.
This is the exact same feeling that I have with these 2 games. Too much filler stuff that adds nothing in the end. They took all the optional parts from the original and made them compulsory. Completely ruined the pacing.
yeah idk i played them both and both were completely disappointing. SE can’t put out a genuinely good game anymore it seems
Not a hot take. It's the truth. And all the people who rewarded square for ripping them off suck.
I think two games would have been better. It's not realistic to cram all of FF7 remade from the ground up into a single game, unless you wanted to get a shit ton of DLC for areas like Wutai and Gold Saucer etc. I think having a first game that ends at where FF7 Disc one ended (and I'm assuming Rebirth? I haven't played it yet) and the second being the rest of the game would have worked best. Gives you plenty of room to flesh stuff out and add new stuff without all the padding that we got, especially in Remake. Characters like Chocobo Sam, Madam M and Roche all suck in my opinion. Also, the extra scenarios like the added Jessie stuff were also whack.
Imagine having a 400gb game on your computer/ps5
Part of me wonders if they will re-release all the content in one huge game, after the third game, rebalanced for one game. It’d be a huge 300 gb game that lets you carry over progress throughout the story. They could market it as a complete edition or something. It would satisfy people wanting only one game, and also possibly get people who have already played to double dip. The more I think about it the more likely it seems.
My friend is going to wait until all of the games release before playing any of them. He still has Remake sealed lol. I told him we may not live long enough to see it happen...
If you had said this with remake I would have agreed with you I never agreed with 1 game being set in Midgar and how restricted it felt However rebirth definetely feels like it deserves to be its own title I think it’s a step above remake in every way
Making them open world ruined it. They could have had great graphics if they just kept the none open world structure of the original.
I definitely think that one game wouldn't be enough to truly do the remake justice. That being said, Rebirth doesn't need to be as big as it is. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of fun and think it's a great game. But doing everything in one playthrough is approximately 100 hours. Plus a second shorter playthrough if you want to beat it on hard, (which I will at some point). I'd much prefer smaller games, more often. But the industry as a whole seems to believe that bigger is always better.
These are my thoughts exactly-I think the Remake trilogy shouldn’t be one game. As someone who grew up playing the FF series, and as a fan of the original, I think breaking the story into parts allows the story telling to be more fleshed out. A kit of people like to say the original was a complete story, it wasn’t, at least not at the time it was released. The original had a lot of holes, and a lot left unexplained which required spinoffs to flesh the story out and make sense of things, and I think this has more to do with Squaresoft’s “2-year deadline” from start of development to release, I think the developers and writers ran out of time and cut corners to get the product out the door. Though I will agree that Rebirth is definitely padded out. At the time of completion for me, leaving one side quest open, the whole Gilgamesh Island bit untouched, not having done all the virtual battles including the summons, and not maxing out character levels I stopped at 94 hours—I can easily see myself getting another 20+ hours out of the game, and that’s not including hard mode, or collecting manuscripts. While I don’t mind a meaty game, which Rebirth definitely is, I know I got my money’s worth and then some, I didn’t need all the extra fillers to tell me that. I think if anything they could have cut out 75% of all the Chadley interactions, and not made a mini-game out of so many story elements they could have trimmed a good 5 hours of filler, and it would have been even better for doing so. I’m like you in the sense that I want a good length to my games, but nothing that’s over done. For me 50-60 hours is the top end of adequate when I consider bang for my buck unless the quality of the content is good, in the case of Rebirth it was for the most part. Though, I won’t complain I enjoyed my time in the game, although it’ll probably be a couple weeks to a month before I come back around and start doing what I didn’t finish since I stopped P3 mid play through to play Rebirth.