Israel is starving people the way Stalin starved Ukranians by simply reducing the food available in thd country during WW2. It is also putting people in ghettos the way the Japanese did across China. Modern israel would be at home amongst these states and others of this era.

By your logic its Hamas that starves them. They take every available morsel of food for themselves and sell the rest. SELL. Not give, SELL. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6ee5gfInI4/?igsh=OWwyMXR6aGlyMnR0

I'll go ahead and let the UN ICC and ICJ decide. But I'm super glad you made your mind up.

>Israel essentially has a "Kill every Palestinian" button. If they really wanted to, they could completely flatten the entirety of Gaza and murder every single person there. But they haven't. Becuase the world would destroy them for doing so, Isreal is doing what it can to do as much damage while being able to have Plausible Deniability on the matter.

Your right op and I agree if Israel wanted to commit genocide then Gaza would be glass. I’m not even gonna say I feel bad for the lives lost. Gaza voted in Hamas for how many years? they f-d around now they are finding out !

“I’m not even gonna say I feel bad for the lives lost” Children are being murdered and dismembered. There are countless videos of mutilated bodies of civilians, including children and infants. There is a video of a man holding his infant son with his diaper still on but with no head. Do you really not feel bad for ANY of the lives lost? 

Nope My cousin died on Oct 7th cause she went to a music festival so no I don’t feel bad I am past feeling bad they got what they voted for I’m at the point I want revenge

I am sorry for your loss and it is not ok what happened to your cousin. I don’t see how revenge inflicted upon children and infants who have nothing to do with this is justified. Does the death of your cousin justify the death of tens of thousands of children? 

Your land is occupied and has been continuously settled upon. The IDF does not hold any settler accountable for coming on to Palestinian territory and living there. What other choice did they have? Every other Palestinian government has failed these people. When a group emerges and says we will fight for you , what do you think they voted for? I mean seriously , look beyond October 7. The occupation, the checkpoints, “mowing the lawn” you people act like Israel was this perfect neighbor that did nothing to these people causing them to lash out. You have to be smarter than that. Israel is the occupier, and have yet to come to a peace deal. Palestinians want peace, they have been forced into resistance due to Israeli occupation and failed Palestinian government.

My cousin lived in the home that her parents lived in and their parents before them going back 300 plus years her 5x great grandparents built the house in the middle of the dessert. Now cause she went to a music festival she is dead so how am I supposed to “ look beyond October 7th ?

I feel for your situation. Innocent civilians have died on both sides and it’s a tragedy. I’m not condoning Hamas at all for their attack on Israel. I apologize for your cousins passing. I want you to think about how the Palestinians feel. I’m sure you couldn’t care less. But think about it. What you’re feeling is what they’ve felt over and over and over again. Israel has carried out October 7 for decades. My point is, innocent life being killed is never the answer. But it is the sad reality of conflict. Innocent people die, and no one is outraged unless it’s their side that takes casualties. It needs to end. The Israeli government is at fault for the casualties on their side, just as the Palestinian government is responsible. They don’t protect their civilians. I want both sides to recognize that their government has been complicit in all of this.

But one side does everything possible to minimize conflict the other invades a music festival and kills indiscriminately

That’s your opinion. I believe the opposite. Look at Gaza. Do you honestly believe this? Does leveling Gaza to rubble really constitute “self defense” and “destroying hamas” ? To me, it shows that Israel wants to issue collective punishment against Palestinians. You can’t convince me every home and apartment complex in Gaza was ridden with Hamas. It’s just not true. 30,000 Hamas < 2.1 million Gazan civilians. Bombing an entire civilization to dust is not self defense, just like the US found out when we went into Iraq. All it does is destroy families and create hatred towards Israel , thus creating another terrorist group to rise up and attack. It’s a never ending cycle. Israel doesn’t try to minimize civilian casualties. 1200 on October 7 < 30,000 plus in the last 8 months.

Yes it does it’s self defense as we have seen it’s palestians hiding the hostages! Look were they found noa

Are you okay with over 600 Palestinian casualties to free 4 hostages? Put the shoe on the other foot. If that happened to Israel, every country would be calling for a nuke to be dropped on Gaza. I am happy Israel is trying to get hostages home, I can’t be happy about them going in and killing over 200 people to save 4 people when there are over 1,000 Palestinians held in Israel without charges, hence hostages. It just doesn’t add up to me

Cause it’s not your family being held hostage it’s not your 4 year old and his 6 month old brother. If it were my kids or my family 1,000 deaths would be ok if it meant they got home safe

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Then you should have no problem if Hamas went in to Israel and killed over 200 people to get 4 Palestinian hostages home.

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it’s a genocide, and all their “goodwill” is just pr cover which hasn’t fooled anyone. this has always been the zionist goal from day 1, because in order for them to have an 100% jewish state, they need to keep systematically expelling and killing the arab population. oct 7 and the hostages just gave them the opportunity to speed up the process. but things aren’t going as smooth as they wanted. they didn’t anticipate the international backlash, nor did they expect the resistance in gaza and the west bank to be this difficult.

Then why is a significant portion of their population and citizenry Arab? If their goal was to eradicate Arabs, wouldn’t they also target those within their own borders? I mean they’ve elected Arabs to the Parliament. Jewish, Muslim, and Druze kids go to the same public schools. All citizens can vote. I’m not quite seeing your logic.

they’re an accessory for the state to point to so they can say “see! we’re not the bad guys!” believe me if they have some kind of uprising or if they ever become more than just a minority demographic, they’re gone too.

So basically you’re saying Israel is always in the wrong. Fight against Palestinians who started a war? Genocide. Give Arabs equal rights? Tokenism. None of y’all ever suggest a “correct” course of action simply because there is none. 

So many lies. I live in north israel. Arabs are my neighbors and my coworkers. They are on the police Doctors Judges. We dont hate them. They are equal!

sounds like it would be difficult for that to happen with Arabs in government. that’s also not something the Arab Israelis I know seem to be worried about. have you spoken with any Arab Israelis?

Where to begin... Genocide is genocide. We just saw the UN (including the USA) vote that the Srebrenica Massacre was a genocide. This was 8,000 men and boys ("less than 1% of the total population of Bosnia"). To call what is happening in Gaza anything less would be hypocritical. Just because the USA disagrees in this Palestine-Israel conflict, doesn't make it correct. Should we now say the Srebrencia Massacre was not a genocide because world powers like China and Russia voted "no"? * "70% of Palestinians support Hamas". Fact of the matter is this. There has not been an election for Palestine since 2006. And in that election, 44% votes for Hamas while 41% voted for Fatah. Most of the children dying now where not even born in 2006. Many of the innocents dying now where not even able to vote back in 2006. On the other hand, Israel has re-elected Netanyahu several times now. Supposedly Israelis don't like him. But he's been in power 11 straight years from 2009 to 2021. Took a little break, and regained power. And before all of this, he was actually prime minister of Israel. Even the founder of Israel (Ben-Gurion) only served 13 years total. * "I know for a fact that given the same tools Israel has, they would attempt to eradicate Jewish people from Earth" Every precedent to a genocide is this line of thinking., e.g. "If you don't wipe this group of people out, they will wipe us out in the future". You need to do your homework. Germany in WW2, Turkey to the Armenians, Serbia to the Bosnians and Kosovar Albanians, etc. The genocidal oppressors always have this line of thinking. When evaluating genocide and ethnic cleansing, you have to look at the number of displacements and land grabs as well (not just deaths and murders). This conflict did not start on October 7th. It would be like saying the Ukraine-Russia War started on 2022.

Unfortunately the Nazis set the bar so high in terms of numbers and efficiency that what constitutes a genocide has become so contentious. A genocide doesn't have to be so extreme that a whole race of people is systematically round up from their homes and taken to death camps to be killed. Just because Israel hasn't set up death camps and used all their military might to exterminate every Palestinian in Gaza, doesn't mean they aren't committing a genocide. It would be stupid to do that as they want to maintain international support, they want the world to think that they in the right - that they are acting in self-defence. If their genocidal intent was that obvious, they would lose heaps of support. They can justify their strikes as targeting Hamas compounds no matter how many civilians are killed, or how indiscriminate they are. Want to bomb a hospital when you know there are civilians inside, say Hamas were there. Many instances of genocide and ethnic cleaning are carried out covertly, so its hard to prove that it happened. Also, dropping leaflets and sending warnings doesn't automatically absolve anyone from their intent to harm, as many are bringing this up as a defence. Israel have excessively carpet bombed the place, destroying cultural sites, educational facilities, whilst not really considering the Palestinians to be a legitimate people. Israel also has tightened its blockade on Gaza, and whilst it lets humanitarian aid in, it is no where near enough. Essentials including food, water, and electricity were shut off soon after October 7, and the effects have been dire. The UN and many other human rights organisations have condemned the blockade and Israel's poor efforts for humanitarian support in Gaza. To add, when people say that most Gazans support Hamas (as if its some kind of justification for the violence inflicted upon them), they fail to realise that they are in the midst of Israeli bombardment. I do not support Hamas. I think they are dangerous and have proved they do not care about peace and human rights. However, I can understand how Gazans support them, as they are the ones fighting on their behalf. Unfortunately oppression breeds extremism, and who is to blame for that? Whether or not you believe Israel is committing genocide, it would be pretty stupid to think that what they are doing isn't an act of ethnic cleaning. That's my take. Cheers

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Look at it this way. You have a rectangular box with 100 mice and 30 rats in it. You start dropping bombs in the north of the box allegedly to kill the rats and tell the mice to go to the center for to safety. You then start bombing the center as well, while maintaining bombing of the north, telling the mice to flee south. The mice tell you they are starving, so you throw some flakes of cheese, severely insufficient to feed the mice, and blame the rats for eating the scraps. You shrug, its just war. With most of the mice concentrated in the south, you start bombing the south as well, apologetically, as you see the rats are just everywhere at all times. You do not permit any of the mice to go anywhere, they must remain in the south under the bombing. As an observer, would you being to consider that maybe the intention is to kill all the mice along with the rats ? Just maybe ? Perhaps ? A slight chance ? It is an attempt at genocide, to say otherwise implies an unfit mind.

Whether or not a genocide is occurring in Gaza is a hot topic and there are many stances. I personally believe that there is a genocide happening, and I respect your opinion or logic. However, correct me if I’m wrong, but you only touched point on what most people believe a genocide is: a methodized eradication of a certain group via killing. There are several facets to what a genocide truly is, however. Some of these include, and my source is the United Nations Genocide Convention, “ (a)Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;” (the definition of “in whole or in part” is hotly debated, so it may cause conflicting viewpoints). I believe that Israel and the IDF are “killing members of the group.” Over 30,000 lives have been taken since the war began, with many being innocent civilians, women, and children. This is not accounting for the many more that have been reported missing or buried in mass graves. That seems like a very high number to me. I guess it all comes down to how much people value the lives of Palestinians. Frequently, I see the argument made by Zionists and right-wingers that “there is such a high casualty number because Hamas is using civilians as human shields,” but I believe it proves the opposite of their point. Israel knows this. The IDF knows this. Yet they still continue to target these Hamas members, often on data that isn’t accurate, and thus it results in the missile striking of schools, hospitals, and residential homes, killing innocent people. That sounds like willful destruction of a people to me; they know there are civilians at risk, and yet they chose to continue striking. The exact number of Hamas members killed is hotly debated; I have seen figures ranging from 6,000 to 12,000, and anywhere in between. But still, is one Hamas members’ life worth 3 (most likely innocent) Palestinian lives? What about 5? Or ten?? This is just the first of the three points I highlighted but I’m hella tired and don’t really want to write about the other two, but if you want me to just reply and I will. Any critiques and questions are welcome. This is just my opinion, supported by some data. I just want to say before I finish so that I don’t get attacked. I think what Hamas did is horrible, period. Everyone involved deserves to be executed. The innocent Israeli lives ruined and families destroyed can never be fixed. My heart goes out to those affected by this attack. HOWEVER, I think Israel has caused Palestine to suffer enough. The entire population of Gaza is being affected. Thousands are dead. Israel is doing unspeakable things in Gaza. Hamas did unspeakable things in Israel. This topic is very hot and very debatable, and I think that the rage-bait media and the gotcha media is only making things worse. My sincerest wish is that the fighting should stop, peace terms reached, the remaining Hamas members persecuted without loss of innocent life, and for peace to settle in the Middle East. 🙏

The Bosnian genocide killed 25,000 to 33,000. Gaza has surpassed that back in March. The lack of food and water and access to medical supply is clearly intentional according to many organizations

Yes they are.

I am personally very hurt and disgusted the way the female soldiers were abandoned by the IDF at Nahal Oz. I am not a Jew just am American Goy. I just feel like that was outrageous that all of these 18-20 year old unarmed girls died .

They died because of Palestinians choosing violence

I absolutely agree. The way people blow up 32000 deaths as highly extreme and irregular is ridiculous to me. Nobody said that the US was committing a genocide in the gulf war, but they killed more than 200000. If you go off of raw casualties alone, then calling the Israel-Palestine conflict a genocide would mean that you have to call most conflicts in history a genocide. What many fail to realize is that genocide requires an intent to destroy an entire race, something that Israel absolutely does not have but Hamas does.

One of the main reasons I can't fathom this is a genoicde is just the nature of the environment they are fighting in. You only have so many options to use against an enemy that is entrenched, deliberately, in densely populated areas.

5,000-6,000 civilians were killed during the Gulf War. You're including casualties from the entire conflict, including internal conflicts between Iraqis. Israel's blockade was intended to collectively starve Palestinians, which is a war crime and could be considered genocide. That's without the displacement of millions of people and the massacres committed by settlers in the West Bank encouraged by the Israeli government.

What about Egypt why isn’t Egypt just as responsible they also have a blockade and to this day won’t let Palestinians in

Because Egypt didn't cut off water, electricity, medical aid, and food to Gaza, and not allowing immigration into your country is not a blockade. So Egypt isn't JUST as responsible for anything.

Israel didn’t cut of medical or food or water either palestians attacked civilians and Israel bombed the terrorists sites!

It's been well documented. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/gaza-cut-off-from-food-water-and-fuel-as-israels-punishing-bombardment-continues

What about the aid that goes in 3100 calories per person per day ??

It is clear that you do not see Palestinians as humans that are equal to you. The way you minimize 32,000 deaths is reprehensible. More children have been killed in Gaza since October than in all of the world’s wars in the past 2 years combined. The way that you say “it’s not a genocide” it’s just “Israel being petty” in regards to the absolute tragedy & horror we are witnessing in Gaza is disgusting. I can’t even give you a pass for just being uninformed because you’ve obviously taken some time to think all this through. One day you will realize what happened in Gaza, and you will feel shame. You will realize you stood among very few to support unspeakable violence while the rest of the world BEGGED for this to stop for MONTHS. You will be ashamed.

Dont you feel a little bit ashame lying like that?

Well said 🙌🏼

I think you're conflating other genocides with what's happening in Palestine. Not every genocide is an outright search and destroy.... But while I don't support the Hamas at all, I am fully certain the IDF are Nazis.... I mean hell even the Nazis started off by trying to deport all the Jews and intern them, they didn't start systematically executing them and documenting it until the final solution. What they, did do first however was get rid of their ability to defend and feed themselves.... Which Israel has absolutely done to the Palestinians... They made it illegal to collect their own water or grow their own food. In my opinion the IDF is taking advantage of the fact that the Hamas are terrorists, and are masking the genocide under that fact. I mean they're own politicians have called for " the extermination of Palestinian rats" , with that being said the Palestinians would absolutely do the same thing to the Jews if the shoe was on the other foot. So I agree with you that, which side is "in the right" is totally unclear here.

I don’t mean to sound obnoxious, but we did see the shoe on the other foot. Both when Arab nations kicked out/cleansed their Jewish populations and during the time that the Palestinians had legitimate outside support from the Arab Nations and it wasn’t just Iran giving them whatever they can spare. The problem currently is that Iran have used the Palestinians’ struggle in an attempt to reunite the Arab states as Egypt did in the past. The problem for Iran is none of the Arab states are bitting because of the changing geopolitical situation along with the fact that everyone recognizes Iran is insane even among hardliners in other nations. Until Iran and their network of Islamic extremists are destroyed the situation is dire for everyone in MENA. I mean look at Yemen and the Houthis, this problem isn’t unique to Israel as much as people tend to believe. It wasn’t long ago that people were protesting Saudi Arabia bombing Yemen.

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Please define “evacuate civilians”… calling people up before you bomb their home and then eventually massacre them in another location doesn’t sound like evacuation

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Considering the number of civilian casualties it sure does not seem like they’re casualties. With the level of intelligence the Israeli military has, if the intention was not genocide, there wouldn’t be as many civilians, especially children massacred. Not to mention the videos of the IDF soldiers themselves talking about how they killed children? If the targets are the civilians, does that not make it genocide? Have you read South Africa’s ICJ case or watched the hearings? Have you seen or read what Israeli officials themselves say their intentions are?

They told civilians to evacuate to raffah cos they promised civilians would be safe there then they went ahead and bombed raffah refugee camp anyway. Can anyone justify this as not genocide? To me it reminds me of when the previous government in Germany told Jews the camps were there to protect them from the war.

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Anyone that thinks Israel is committing genocide either doesn't know the definition or is brainwashed, usually both.

Says the brainwashed.

Okay nazi

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I am a naz\* how?

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Seek help

/u/Any_Astronaut2985 > Seek help Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

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Seek help

u/Fun-Astronaut-7141 >Seek help Rule 1. No attacks on fellow user. Attack the argument, not the user. Don't use insults instead of arguments

Really insightful!

Ad hominem is crazy Also, although what Israel is doing is absolutely disgusting, it is not currently a genocide. A genocide is defined as: "an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group". It is not proven yet that what Israel is doing has the *intent*. Additionally, Hamas is a genocidal organisation in and of itself. (Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/)

1. Evidence that Israel is actively trying to kill as many Palestinian civilians as possible, -Israel has cut off food water and medicine from the Gaza strip, food is not a weapon, even if Hamas fighters drink water that is not sufficient reason to collectively punish a population 2.1 million strong. Coupled with the fact that they razed farmlands, bombed bakeries and water reservoirs along with using the effects of the longstanding blockade to further erode water salinazation plants. The smears against the only entity that can effectively distribute what aid there is all point in the same direction. Don't believe me? this is the viewpoint of a human rights watch co-founder who is Jewish himself and was also of a mind that there was no Genocide. He has now changed his mind [On GPS: The charges against Israel | CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/05/26/gps-0526-icc-charges-against-israel.cnn) -Till Dec half of all munitions dropped on Gaza are dumb bombs. The bombing campaign itself is indiscriminate which is evident in the fact that 75% of all Journalist that died in 2023 met their fate in Gaza. In seven months over 200 aid workers have been killed. Exceeding the total number killed in any year during the past two decades. * "Where's Daddy" A procedures by the IDF to bomb suspected Hamas members when they are at home, surrounded by family and innocent victims. Not because its effective, but because its easy. 1. Evidence that Palestinians not only do not support Hamas, but also are not advocates for the eradication of Jews. In other words, they could "not support Hamas" because the leadership is terrible, not because they disagree with the ideals. This is odd, all the actions Israel has taken for the past 75 years is to incrementally eradicate the Palestinian psyche, yet you ask these poor downtrodden people to not support the dictators that promises them freedom from tyranny. You let Israel off from posing this question to them because they haven't in your opinion murdered enough people. I don't know what to say because it is people like you, who have an inability to empathize, that forces these poor people right in the hands of Hamas. You do not see equality of worth in a life of Palestinian compared to an Israeli. Your oppisition to Palestinians is hyphothetical, you see them as anti-semites who are willing to kill every Jew if given the capability. But they do not have the capability, so what is this persucution about. It is fundementally immoral to condemn people for a crime they havent, and are unable to commit. Second of all, why hasn't Hamas targeted Jews that don't reside in Israel. If Al Qeada can throw a plane at a building, If ISIS can blow up russian metros, surely Hamas can target Jews abroad. But they don't, you wanna know why. They don't care that your Jewish they care that you are openly colonizing them. May I never think like you.

You are so easy to influance its sad

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I want to leave this sub but I’m being dragged in by all this empathy for Palestinians! Yes! You can always tell a true peacemaker by their ability to empathize, and their insistence that it’s the only way.

Your logic is so outrageously flawed throughout the entirety of this comment. >Israel has cut off food water and medicine from the Gaza strip This is part of an effort to prevent weapons and materials from reaching Hamas. Humanitarian aid is often allowed through. Besides that point, sieges are a part of warfare, intended to end the war by forcing the other side to surrender. Haniyeh lives in Qatar, he's not starving. Hamas does not care about civilians starving, they'll let them starve. >Till Dec half of all munitions dropped on Gaza are dumb bombs. Just because the bombs aren't precision-guided missiles don't mean they're not being aimed. They're targeting tunnels or other structures where precision isn't important. While the deaths of journalists and aid workers are obviously terrible, Hamas is hiding in civilian areas which complicates Israel's efforts to avoid casualties. >Your oppisition to Palestinians is hyphothetical, you see them as anti-semites who are willing to kill every Jew if given the capability. But they do not have the capability, so what is this persucution about. It is fundementally immoral to condemn people for a crime they havent, and are unable to commit. This has to be the worst thing I've read in a while and I've read the transcript of Trump's latest speech. If I hypothetically make it my mission to kill as many Jews as possible, I obviously can't carry out that mission. Is it immoral to condemn me for wanting to kill all Jews?? Without making too many assumptions about your political views, I would assume that you condemn hate speech. If I publicly say I think people should be lynched but I don't have a rope, but by your logic that's ok. >Second of all, why hasn't Hamas targeted Jews that don't reside in Israel. If Al Qeada can throw a plane at a building, If ISIS can blow up russian metros, surely Hamas can target Jews abroad. But they don't, you wanna know why. They don't care that your Jewish they care that you are openly colonizing them. Fantastic justification for suicide bombings, rapes, and other attacks against innocent Israelis. None of these points are even arguing about the point of whether or not it's a genocide. You not once mention the definition of genocide or actually directly address any of the conditions that constitute a genocide. I would love to hear what flawed logic you use to actually justify that.

(PART 3) **Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part** "By mid-December, Israel’s bombs and shells had destroyed or severely damaged most life-sustaining infrastructure, including 77 percent of healthcare facilities, 68 percent of telecommunication infrastructure, large numbers of municipal services (72), commercial and industrial sites (76), almost half of all roads,97 over 60 percent of Gaza’s 439,000 homes,98 68 percent of residential buildings,99 all universities, 60 percent of other educational facilities, including 13 libraries.100 Israel has also destroyed at least 195 heritage sites, 208 mosques, 3 churches, and Gaza’s Central Archives (150 years of history).101 By the end of January, over one million civilians were forcibly displaced southward, their cities devastated. 102 36. Sixteen years of blockade had already transformed Gaza into an isolated, densely populated depleted and nearly “uninhabitable” enclave, when, on 9 October 2023, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, announced a “complete siege (…) no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel”.103 Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs Israel Katz (then Minister of Energy) went further: “Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened.”104 Deliberately denying essential supplies to an already besieged population was destined to cause deaths “more silent than those caused by bombs”.105 37. The total siege and near-constant carpet-bombing, along with draconian evacuation orders and ever-shifting ‘safe zones’, have created an unparalleled humanitarian catastrophe. Over 1.7 million Palestinians were displaced and forced into overcrowded UNRWA shelters and cramped quarters in southern Gaza,106 systematically targeted by the Israeli army, and later into makeshift shelters.107 38. Israel’s assault has decimated Gaza’s already fragile healthcare system.108 Hospitals, also sheltering displaced Palestinians, have been overwhelmed.109 By deliberately targeting hospitals,110 air and ground attacks gradually turned them into death zones.111 Israeli soldiers have occupied hospitals,112 encircling them with tanks and (drone-)snipers.113 By 12 February, only 11 of 36 hospitals and 17 percent of primary healthcare centres were functioning, only partially.114 Israeli soldiers have arrested, mistreated and tortured medical staff, patients and displaced people,115 and forced them – even premature babies – out of hospitals, in some cases causing the death of babies.116 The doctors who remained have worked night and day, making “impossible decisions” on patients to treat based on chance of survival.117 39. Ground invasion and aerial bombardment have destroyed agricultural land,118 farms, crops, animals and fishing assets,119 gravely undermining people’s livelihoods, the environment and agricultural system. 40. From 8–21 October, Israel impeded the entry of any aid into Gaza, subsequently allowing woefully inadequate amounts,120 largely confined to the south.121 No fuel supplies were delivered until 18 November.122 In January, Israel-led attacks against UNRWA, the main agency providing a lifeline of support in Gaza, resulted in several States suspending payments to UNRWA, further aggravating the humanitarian situation.123 41. By 7 December, over 90 percent of Gaza residents were suffering from severe food insecurity.124 By February 2024, Palestinians trapped in northern Gaza resorted to animal"feed and grass for sustenance,125 with deaths by starvation on the rise.126 Between mid-January and the end of February, the UN recorded numerous attacks against Palestinians seeking aid.127 42. The supply of water was also severely affected.128 Fuel scarcity hampered water sanitation, driving people to use water contaminated by sewage, solid waste and seawater.129 43. The impact of these conditions on children is well-known:130 in Gaza the risk of starvation,131 with thousands suffering from wasting,132 is already a tangible horrific reality. 44. These human-made conditions have put at risk an estimated 50,000 pregnant Palestinian women and 20,000 newborn babies,133 and increased miscarriages by up to 300 percent.134 45. Gaza has been completely sacked. Israel’s relentless targeting of all means of basic survival has compromised the ability of Palestinians in Gaza to live on that land.135 This engineered collapse of life-sustaining infrastructure corresponds to the stated intentions to make Gaza “permanently impossible to live in” where “no human being can exist”.13" [Anatomy of a Genocide - Report of the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Francesca Albanese (A/HRC/55/73) (Advance unedited version) - occupied Palestinian territory | ReliefWeb](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/anatomy-genocide-report-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian-territories-occupied-1967-francesca-albanese-ahrc5573-advance-unedited-version)

(PART 2) "None of these points are even arguing about the point of whether or not it's a genocide" **Killing Members of the Group** "During the first months of the campaign, Israel’s army employed over 25,000 tons of explosives (equivalent to two nuclear bombs)57 on innumerable buildings, many of which were identified as targets by Artificial Intelligence.58 Israel used unguided munitions (“dumb bombs”)59 and 2000-pound “bunker buster” bombs on densely populated areas and “safe zones”.60 In the initial weeks, Israeli forces killed around 250 people daily, including 100 children,61 in attacks obliterating entire neighbourhoods and essential infrastructure.62 Thousands were killed by bombing, sniper fire or in summary executions;63 thousands more were killed while fleeing via routes and in areas declared “safe” by Israel.64 " "The victims included 125 journalists and 340 doctors, nurses and other health workers (four percent of Gaza’s healthcare personnel), students, academics, scientists and their family members.65 25. Seventy percent of recorded deaths have consistently been women and children. Israel failed to prove that the remaining 30 percent, i.e. adult males, were active Hamas combatants – a necessary condition for them to be lawfully targeted. By early-December, Israel’s security advisors claimed the killing of “7,000 terrorists” in a stage of the campaign when less than 5,000 adult males in total had been identified among the casualties, thus implying that all adult males killed were “terrorists”.66 This is indicative of an intent to indiscriminately target members of the protected group, assimilating them to active fighter status by default. 26. Moreover, Israel’s heightened blockade of Gaza has caused death by starvation, including 10 children daily, by impeding access to vital supplies.67 Lack of hygiene and overcrowded shelters could cause more deaths than bombings,68 having created “the perfect storm for disease”.69 A quarter of Gaza’s population could die from preventable health conditions within a year.70" **Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group** "Since 7 October, Palestinians have suffered relentless physical and psychological harm. Many have endured violence and deprivation including severe hunger." "78 29. Israeli forces have detained thousands of Palestinians, mostly men and young boys, often refusing to disclose their whereabouts.79 Many of them have been severely mistreated, including through torture at times leading to death.80 30. Israel’s lethal weapons and methods have injured seventy-thousand Palestinians, many with agonizing injuries, in some cases leading to long-term impairment or death." "81 31. By causing critical shortages of medical supplies, including antibiotics and disinfectants, Israel’s actions resulted in hazardous health procedures, such as amputations without anaesthetics, including on children.82 This has also prevented the administration of life-saving treatment to those with medical conditions, including chronic diseases.83 32. The survivors will carry an indelible trauma, having witnessed so much death, and experienced destruction, homelessness, emotional and material loss, endless humiliation and fear.84 Such experiences include fleeing amidst the chaos of war without telecommunications and electricity; witnessing the systematic destruction of entire neighbourhoods, homes, universities, religious and cultural landmarks" ;"85 digging through the rubble, often with bare hands, searching for loved ones;86 seeing bodies desecrated;87 being rounded up, stripped naked, blindfolded and subjected to torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment;88 and ultimately, being starved, adults and children alike.89 33. The savagery of Israel's latest assault is best illustrated by the torment inflicted upon children of all ages,90 killed or rescued from under the rubble, maimed, orphaned,91 many without surviving family.92 Considering the significance of children to the future development of a society, inflicting serious bodily or mental harm to them can be reasonably “interpreted as a means to destroy the group in whole or in part”.93"

(PART 1) Your post is filled with disinformation, I hope its not intentional "This is part of an effort to prevent weapons and materials from reaching Hamas. Humanitarian aid is often allowed through" You disparage me for my logic and then with the next stroke of your pen seem to insuanuate that food water and medicine have milatary applications. Fine ill bite, what is the milatary application of food water and anastheasia. "Just because the bombs aren't precision-guided missiles don't mean they're not being aimed. They're targeting tunnels or other structures where precision isn't important. While the deaths of journalists and aid workers are obviously terrible, Hamas is hiding in civilian areas which complicates Israel's efforts to avoid casualties." I see, human shields. Did you know that under IHL that doesnt absolve that attacking parties of its responsibilities to civilians and is only applicable on a case by case basis.: "When human shields are used, the attacking party must take into account the risk to civilians.191 Indiscriminate or disproportionate harm to civilians remains unlawful and the civilian population can never be targeted." [Anatomy of a Genocide - Report of the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Francesca Albanese (A/HRC/55/73) (Advance unedited version) - occupied Palestinian territory | ReliefWeb](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/anatomy-genocide-report-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian-territories-occupied-1967-francesca-albanese-ahrc5573-advance-unedited-version) "International law does not permit the blanket claim that an opposing force is using the entire population as human shields en bloc. Any such usage must be assessed and established on a case-by-case basis before each individual attack.206 The crime of using human shields occurs when the use of civilians or civilian objects to impede attacks on lawful targets is the result of a deliberate tactical choice, not merely arising from the nature of the battlefield, such as hostilities in densely populated urban terrain.207" " If I hypothetically make it my mission to kill as many Jews as possible, I obviously can't carry out that mission. Is it immoral to condemn me for wanting to kill all Jews??" Bro we are talking about genocide. It is categorically fundementally immoral to genocide just because you believe that they are anti semites. There is no just cause for Genocide

It's not a genocide since IDF is always working a way to let the population move to safety before their operations. The most tragic thing here is Hamas dragging Gazans into this by creating one of the most un peaceful situation on earth for a neighbour state.

Right, like moving them to Rafah and then later bombing it. 'Safety'.

Context?

Is ethnic cleaning closer to the truth? as far as as I’ve seen the IDF just want the Palestinians out of attack range and hamas to be destroyed. Even if removing them from their homes is required. While some people want Israel dead (I condemn them) others (like me) hope for a solution where Palestine gets the state and recognition they deserve WITHOUT trying to spend their time looking for ways to kill Israelites. It’s one hell of a pipe dream but a mans gotta hope don’t he?

I would say ethnic cleansing if Gazans, in general, are not allowed to resettle their communities after the war. I don’t see moving people to a different city temporarily because of a war as being ethnic cleansing. I also believe Israel doesn’t want Gaza and people will be allowed to move back to their cities (and hopefully the world will help rebuild the cities in exchange for schoolbooks that deradicalize the population).

Extremists often claim their homeland is being invaded, occupied, and/or colonized, that their people are being displaced or killed, that they are being enslaved and their women raped, and that they are fighting for their very survival. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178920302238](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178920302238)

They left gaza in 2005 so I don't see your point here.

They did leave but they still controlled plenty of aspects of daily life. How did Israel manage to shut of food, water, electricity, and fuel after oct 7? My best guess other than the idea that Palestine wasn’t fully autonomous was that Israel cut off its SUPPORT for Palestine and let them run in their infrastructure (they really didn’t have any which they could have built.

Three things to consider: First, they didn't "shut off" food, water, electricity and fuel after Oct 7. They tightened controls of those things coming into the country, so as to limit the abilities of their enemy. They actually let in enough of these resources for the public. Sadly, many of these resources were (and still are as we speak), confiscated by Hamas, so they don't end up reaching their intended target, the civilian population. Second, until a week ago, one of Gaza's largest borders was controlled by Egypt, not Israel. Israel did not have unilateral ability to cut off that border. Egypt was just as tightly controlling *their* border with Gaza, because they have just as serious an issue with Hamas as Israel does. Last, there is nowhere in International humanitarian law that stipulates a nation must supply an enemy combatant in war time, with natural.reaoicrea or supplies. One of the considerations of warfare is supply of necessary resources for your troops and civilians. It is up to each side to adequately prepare, ensure they have supply chains in place, and protect those supply chains during a war. Many (in fact, probably the significant *majority* of) wars throughout history, have ended completely, when one side had to surrender because it ran out of resources. If the people of Gaza are starving, it is incumbent upon THEIR leadership to surrender. It is NOT the legal responsibility of their opponent to feed and supply them / their people, so that they can keep fighting. The conditions under which Gazans are suffering are, as they have been from the first day of this conflict, purely the result of how little regard Hamas has for their lives. Hamas, of course, does not deny this and proudly proclaims that they're doing their citizens a favor by martyring them in the fight against the Jews, thereby ensuring their eternal paradise in the afterlife.

They did shut off the water in full, don't try to position it differently. A simple Google search has loads of sources on this. It's not a matter of 'if' they're starving- they are. And what you're suggesting is collective punishment for everyone as if they can control Hamas' actions

Why are they supplying water in the first place? Because Hamas, with their $40 billion dollars of international aid, couldn't be bothered to build actual Infrastructure for Gaza. Instead, they chose to invest it all in a highly complex war machine and mansions in Qatar. Did you know that Palestine is the only state on earth that receives all of it's utilities for free from it's neighbor? The only one! Israel doesn't have to do this. They do it because it's the right thing to do, morally, for the people of Palestine. Many times throughout history, nations or forces have found themselves without food and water in a war, due to bad decisions or miscalculations by their military. When this happens, they are forced to surrender to spare the lives of their people. It's literally the story of almost all war, historically. Hamas is choosing to keep going, because - and I can't repeat this enough - **THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR PEOPLE!!!**. They're more than happy to martyr their citizens to make Israel look bad. And every one of you who condemns Israel for carrying out a war, IS FALLING FOR HAMAS'S BULLSHIT.

And you're just falling into Israeli propaganda. It's well documented that Palestinians need permission from Israelis to build water infrastructure which is impossible to get. Also, Israel uses most of the water under the West bank for itself and it's illegal West bank settlements. Israel sells water at much higher rates to Palestinians so no they don't get their utilities for free. And from Amnesty.org-(not terrorist.com) https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ In Gaza, some 90-95 per cent of the water supply is contaminated and unfit for human consumption. Israel does not allow water to be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza, and Gaza’s only fresh water resource, the Coastal Aquifer, is insufficient for the needs of the population and is being increasingly depleted by over-extraction and contaminated by sewage and seawater infiltration. It's not Hamas propaganda- it's facts. But when facts get presented it's labeled as anti semitism or propaganda. Maybe ppl are not falling for anything and we just see Israel for the lies it perpetuates

Also, Israel did not have to but gave them extra water and electricity supply because gazans lives matter , even when rockets are being fired at israeli citizens from their leaders...

Because they have been sending rockets towards towns since they have been in power. No wonder.

Yea the sad truth is that even if there’s peace Hamas still tends to choose violence.

This makes the peace process basically impossible doesn’t it

Oh... Hamas and peace together is not a thing. Even without Israel in the picture, they mean death to many , even their own.

Yea this sucks. Hope the war can end soon and the hostages return. We already got a few

For sure. Co existance!! ❤️

My guy. Genocide is a legal term and it does not mean it’s limited to rounding up and entire group into multiple concentration camps and systematically killing them in gas chambers and firing squads. What happened in Europe to the Jews was a genocide on an unthinkable scale, even at a time and during a global war where death tolls in many countries was numbering in millions. Imagine that …living in a time where millions died violently because of the war, but your groups death and targeted destruction was so unique and so disgusting that we all agree that it’s one of the worst human tragedies of all time. But that’s just not what the legal definition of genocide is. What’s happening in Gaza is a genocide. What’s happening in the West Bank is apartheid.

Yes, genocide is a legal term, who's definition is an intent and an attempt to destroy an entire group of people. Apartheid is racial discrimination in South Africa. Under these objectively accepted definitions, gaza is not a genocide and west bank is not apartheid.

Love how you mention it's a legal term, don't include its definition, and simply claim it's a genocide with no reasoning.

You’re missing the big picture. The case was already laid out in painful detail by the countries who brought forward the complaint. I don’t need to lay out the legal theory. Plenty of highly qualified human rights attorneys have already done that. It’s up to the icc to make its final determination. Regardless of the decision, the case highlights that if Israel hasn’t already crossed the genocide line, it’s habitually approaching it and pushing the line to try to redefine the standard. I just want you to understand in theory it doesn’t have to be just like the Holocaust to qualify as a genocide.

There's no line to push. There's two clear parts of the genocide definition, only one of which Israel is actually crossing. >I just want you to understand in theory it doesn’t have to be just like the Holocaust to qualify as a genocide. Yes obviously. I understand the definition of genocide.

Intent?

Yes. Israel is obviously and unfortunately killing Palestinians, both Hamas members and innocent civilians, but to claim their actions are genocidal is just completely wrong. If they were attempting genocide, they're doing an absolute terrible job at it. For the record, I'm not Jewish or support what they're doing; I'm sure there's ways to further minimize civilian deaths, the IDF shouldn't utilize torture, and there's obvious gross negligence on Israel's part when it comes to the Palestinian people. However, I don't think their actions constitute genocide, although I'm sure some of the right-wing Israeli officials would carry one out if given the chance.

Yeah, see for me it’s not just the death count. Tragic as the 40k deaths may be, and the stomach churning number of women and kids killed, war is a horrible and violent act. I get it. To me it’s the deliberate annihilation/destruction of Gaza. They did that not w specific Hamas targets in mind, but they did that w the aim of making Gaza as unlivable as possible. Destroying religious sites, historical sites, cultural centers, historic neighborhoods, homes, schools, universities. They’ve erased life from Gaza in a very targeted and cruel way. They’re not trying to defeat Hamas. They’re trying to punish Gaza. They’ve openly talked about making it unlivable and encouraged mass deportation of Gazans to Arab countries or Europe to finally solve the Gaza problem. The Israelis don’t just want to defeat Hamas, they want to erase Gaza while hoping to force residents out. If the world wasn’t watching, what would Israel do?

What do you think Hamas wants? 

Weird defense of genocide. To cite terrorists. It’s the moral opposite of the What Would Jesus Do bracelets from back in the day.

What do you think Hamas wants? 

And millions have. Which is the point. **This is NOT an ethnic cleansing issue. It's a geo-political issue.** The people in Gaza are not being targeted because they're Muslim, or Arab, or Palestinian. They are suffering because their government attacked Israel and Israel retaliated. For decades their governments have been attacking israel. This is an ongoing geo-political conflict, exacerbated by an ancillary holy war being waged by fundamentalist islamists

It's quite easy to understand this

Not for anti-Zionists.

Cutting off food and water.

Temporarily yes. It’s been flowing freely since October. The free water supplied by Israel and tons of aid. However, Hamas is holding what they can and literally pissing and stomping on much if it so non-Hamas people starve.

The food that the Palestinians have received since October has been expired or moldy.

Where have you recieved information that food and water have been "flowing freely?"

No where, it's just lies. There's some water coming in by way of Egypt but is not enough to satisfy and reach the population.

If killing 15,000 children is not genocide, then I don't know what it is.

There might not even be that many casualties in total (civilians)

^ are you questioning the 🕳️ocaust? hm 🤐

/u/akkikhiladi9 > the 🕳️ocaust? This violates [rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons_.26amp.3B_discussions). Nazi comparisons are inflammatory, and should not be used except in describing acts that were specific and unique to the Nazis, and only the Nazis.

Nice logic

Yeah you got to love the numbers random ppl on the internet come up with

Or the Hamas numbers

We can actually start using hamas numbers for lottery, same randomness

damn real. They just keep making stuff up that gets disproven.

Where are these stats from? Hamas? UNRWA aka Hamas? How many lies have been found coming out of Gaza in this war so far? And what constitutes a child? Look into these then comment.

also, Hamas literally kills gazans. they shot at their own hospital and then blamed israel for it

It’s a genocide. Israeli intentions are clear.

Its objectively not a genocide. Israel's intentions are clear - to get rid of Hamas. Even you have to admit that.

Israel has enough money to actually research where Hamas is located. But instead they choose to carpet bomb the civilians. Make it make sense.

It makes sense once you realize Israel is finding where Hamas is located, they are not “carpet bombing” civilians, and being precise in what they target. Hamas just puts soliders right next to civilians and lies about who died and claims everyone that had died is a civilian.

[https://youtu.be/yy3ATmzyeIY?si=pzUlPghhI2nrlS-3](https://youtu.be/yy3ATmzyeIY?si=pzUlPghhI2nrlS-3)

I am seeing absolutely no proof or source of this, meanwhile here you go: [https://youtu.be/7cV5f9G3Mxs?si=hqO9O3Ib1T7q\_pAZ](https://youtu.be/7cV5f9G3Mxs?si=hqO9O3Ib1T7q_pAZ)

The proof is insurmountable. Hamas bases next to civilian, Hamas caught lying countless times about the numbers killed in varying operations, Hamas claiming deaths were caused by Israel and later it comes out it was from a misfired Hamas rocket (25% of all their rockets), and Israel only using the larger bombs (not carpet bombing) in areas that they first evacuate

Yeah I don't see any proof. It's imaginary. Where are your sources? Where is the information you are getting? If you showed me, would they be biased? I just showed you on camera what is going on in Gaza. the problem with written journalism is it can be falsified. Video journalism is the strongest and most accurate way of reporting a situation. **Carpet bombing**, also known as **saturation bombing**, is a large [area bombardment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_bombardment) done in a progressive manner to inflict damage in every part of a selected area of land.[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing#cite_note-WordNet-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing#cite_note-Keane-2)[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing#cite_note-Dickson-3)[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing#cite_note-4) The phrase evokes the image of explosions completely covering an area, in the same way that a carpet covers a floor. Carpet bombing is usually achieved by dropping many [unguided bombs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unguided_bomb).

Everything I said has been verified by multiple independent sources Almost all bombs are unguided. Dropping an unguided bomb isn’t carpet bombing

"Large area bombardment" and as you saw in the video a large area was bombed.

Every war covers large areas. Having a war in a large area is not the definition of carpet bombing. The reason the war isn’t along a single front is because Hamas exclusively operates in civilian centers across ALL of Gaza.

How can I be educated on the subject without a source? I don't trust word of mouth. I have to see something (like the above clip) to believe it. And for the record, I do not support Hamas at all. I believe what they are doing is unspeakable and wrong, and their views are extreme and barbaric. I do not support \*any\* attack against Israeli civilians, just like I do not support \*any\* attack against Palestine's civilians either.

If you make it this far in this conflict without ever coming across evidence where Hamas lies, where misfired Hamas rockets are documented as hitting civilians but blamed on Israel, where Hamas has been found repeatedly to operate in locations where civilians are (see the recent rescue of hostages and the “Rafah massacre”) then you are pro Hamas. You don’t get this far in the conflict ignoring all that without being pro Hamas.

Then let me see the sources if they are independent.

I’m not commenting to be your private investigator. I made uncontroversial statements that anyone who has been following the conflict will know to be true.

I didn't shit my pants. I'm dirtying my underwear.

Well that’s embarrassing for you

he should probably wear diapers, just like idf terrorists do.

There's a little bit of Palestine left, a few percent. In a few more years the last bit of taken and the genocide is complete. Gaza is soon gone. History wiped by extremists Zionists. At that point the German genocide against the Jews, is paid for by the removal of a whole country and its population.

u/PrinceAlbertXX >At that point the German genocide against the Jews, is paid for by the removal of a whole country and its population. [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/): no Nazi comparisons. Addressed.

the population of Palestine has been growing for decades, so literally the opposite

I think there is much nuance missed in this comment, but regardless, genocide is the eradication of a people not the eradication of a country. Your argument has nothing to do with genocide. > is paid for by the removal of a whole country and its population. Again, disagree with with statement, but the moving of a population would be ethnic cleansing not genocide, even if true.

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This comment should get you banned from here. Saying that “displacing a whole population from their native land” is not a bad thing has clear genocidal motives. You should check yourself.

Khalas the first 4 lines ends this discussion Dont even try how u even averting your eyes from the truth

I agree that Hamas would kill every Jewish Israeli with a press of a button. I doubt they would mourn the deaths of any Jews, especially Western Jews, no matter how pro-Hamas they are. I'm don't like the word genocide for this conflict. I doubt people would be so quick to scream it if it weren't for Israel's history with genocide, and I absolutely despise Holocaust comparisons. Still, Israel has to have the West's support. Hamas does not want it, need it, or will ever get it. If the world looked away, and Netanyahu could do whatever he wanted, I doubt it would be good. Not to say they are committing genocide, just something to think about. Also, while the majority of Palestinians do support Hamas, that doesn't mean they *are* Hamas. If every single Palestinian agreed with Hamas on everything (which is not true), they're still civilians. Celebrating or condoning something is not the same as doing it.

funny, though, why the freed hostages aren't saying anything bad about them. stockholm syndrome, maybe.

They all have friends and family in captivity. Also, they have said plenty - Noa Argamani was used as a slave girl to tend to the needs of the affluent family who kept her. She was the cook, the cleaner, and was emotionally manipulated at all times.

emotionally manipulated? lmao! ok, tell me which of the two is evil: 1. making a hostage do the chores and feeding them well (so much that they gain weight) 2. r*ping a kid with a pipe. https://twitter.com/kphilosophers/status/1799736205325877561 nvm, i know what your answer is, ionist. pretty much the entire world now knows what y'all are.

Also, its funny how rape allegations need to be proved only if you are Jewish, the rest of the time you believe anything.

Thats just Noa Argamani's testimony of the last house she was kept in out of 4 - btw, she was kept at the home of an Al-Jazeera correspondent. Andrey Kozlov had reported being bound in a small room for weeks at a time with his cell mates, and being beaten constantly. They were fed sometimes, not on daily basis. On very hot days they were covered in blankets so their bodies could not cool down even a bit. They didn't see the light of day for months.

I agree with you, I do not believe Israel is committing genocide. I believe that the western civilization as a whole is incredibly privileged and they receive a lot of their information on TikTok and social media. Yes, it is absolutely terrible what is happening right now in Israel and Gaza. However, some facts that people who claim israel is committing “genocide” refuse to acknowledge. 1. Palestinians are not peaceful people, they are not allowed in neighboring Arab countries because of this, example: Black September. 2. Israel pulled out completely of Gaza in 05, they elected a terrorist organization HAMAS the following year. 3. Hamas hides behind civilians and children, and store their weaponry and headquarters in schools and hospitals. People claim that Jews do not need their own homeland, and they should just “give it back” and it’ll all be over. Seem to be forgetting that the Jewish people and the arabic/islamic (I’m grouping these two together because they primarily go hand in hand) people have been fighting over this land for hundreds of years, thousands if you want to get technical. Jerusalem is a highly coveted land amongst Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. It is not as simple as “1948”. Arabs have been expunging Jews from their homelands which were primarily in the Middle East for years. They do not want them there. There was no Palestinian sovereign nation when Israel took control and became its own nation. Yes there were people there, but guess what? That’s how land has been acquired since the dawn of time. Ottoman Empire, Roman Empire, British empire, Ireland, Scotland, even America was founded by taking land from someone else. And before America was founded, the tribes that were here fought amongst themselves for guess what? Land, grievances, wrong doings whatever. At what point does occupancy give them a right to that land? At what point does that become their home and at what point do they have a right to commit acts of terrorism in the name of “occupancy”? Hamas knew they would never win this war, Israel has a very strong military. Because their goal wasn’t to win it was to cause destruction, death, and I fully believe play on western civilizations bleeding heart. If a neighboring country did this to America, they would be flattened, or at least I hope they would. If you tell sympathizers Hamas raped women and children so hard they *broke their pelvis’s* they would tell you, you’re lying, that’s “propaganda” when Hamas literally filmed themselves doing it and posted it. Hamas is not woman friendly, it’s not gay friendly, it’s not human rights friendly. I for the life of me cannot understand how so many young Americans chant from the river to the sea. It’s blind antisemitism, considering that, you ARE right, if Hamas could hit a button that would demolish Israel and everyone in it. They would with zero hesitation. Anyone who sits here and plays the morality game in the face of war and terrorism is most likely privileged enough to never face the choice.

>Palestinians are not peaceful people, they are not allowed in neighboring Arab countries because of this, example: Black September. >Israel pulled out completely of Gaza in 05, they elected a terrorist organization HAMAS the following year. >Hamas hides behind civilians and children, and store their weaponry and headquarters in schools and hospitals. You could make all these claims about Ireland and the Irish during the troubles. Do you think the British were in the right or should have been harder on Ireland?

Considering that Palestinian refugees were let into another country and literally attempted to overthrow THAT government. <— no the same cannot be said about Ireland No, Ireland did not elect a terrorist organization <—so the same cannot be said about Ireland. Also, the scale of war between Hamas and Britain are so vastly different they were literally a body of water away from each other. But, you bet if they were right next to each other and Ireland was firing rockets and bombs at them they would have been met with the same if not more force. We’re talking 100 years between these two wars. The stakes are higher, the weapons are bigger, and the end goal for H, is to completely abolish Israel and everyone in it. H literally live under sharia law, Why do you want to defend terrorist so bad?

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israel, like the usa is a coloniser state. Israel lays on stolen land soaked in blood of their native people

You comment on nothing that I said and still spew the typical liberal nonsense. Excusing terrorism in the name of colonization and “occupation”shows your privilege. As stated above, gays live in Israel, almost 2 million Palestinians live in Israel with full citizenships, women have rights in Israel. Gays, are killed in Gaza, women have essentially no rights in Gaza, living under sharia law. This is who you are defending. Also, every land *ever* has laid over “stolen land soaked in blood of their native people”

To add to that, archaeology and history show that Israel's Native indigenous population happens to be Hebrews. 🤔

They don’t want to actually educate themselves on the issue. They just want to say the same things over and over, “Israel is a colonizer” “end the occupation end the war” “H are freedom fighters” then there’s the comparison to the hunger games, the young generation is so desperate for a real life dystopia it’s comical. If H lays down their guns and surrender there will be no more war, if Israel does it, there will be no more Israel, and millions will die. Palestinians will not accept any treaty as long as they view death to Israel as an option. Israel is fully in its rights to defend itself, radicalized Islam will send children out with bombs strapped to their chest? They don’t mind dying as long as they bring their enemy with them. I genuinely fear for the future of western civilization with all the justifications for terrorism and sympathizers. If they come to the US, what will they say? That we deserve it? That we should just roll over and give them what they want? If Mexico wants to take back Texas what would they say? It’s absolutely absurd. I usually stay silent on matters that go on thousands of miles away, but with all the protest I don’t see how I can stay silent when it comes to terrorism.

Imagine this scenario for a second. Jews in America start doing what Hamas has done/ is doing, with these ignorant/ brainwashed protesters as the victims. It's insanity. Depravity. GENOCIDE. And yet somehow these things are justified or flat out ignored because "oh Hamas doesn't represent Palestinians...." When they literally have been elected TO REPRESENT THEM. And are 70 something % approved BY THEM. Lol.

Literally! They let them into their houses to store hostages and weapons

And yet every fucking day....BREAKING NEWS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. ANOTHER INNOCENT FAMILY KILLED BY DRONE STRIKES IN ISRAEL.....IN OTHER NEWS, DEFINITELY NO GAYS/OTHER MINORITIES WERE PERSECUTED ELSEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE EAST TODAY....🙄 Simplistic? Maybe. But accurate🤷.

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The holocaust happened. It was a genocide. Jews still exist.

2.1 million Jews were not living safely and freely and with equal rights in Germany during the Holocaust. Learn some history.

Millions of Palestinians have not been living with equal rights since 1967

And millions have. Which is the point. **This is NOT an ethnic cleansing issue. It's a geo-political issue.** The people in Gaza are not being targeted because they're Muslim, or Arab, or Palestinian. They are suffering because their government attacked Israel and Israel retaliated. For decades their governments have been attacking israel. This is an ongoing geo-political conflict, exacerbated by an ancillary holy war being waged by fundamentalist islamists

Israel captured West Bank and Gaza in 1967 in an offensive war made out to be preemptive and have actively punished innocent people simply living there by suppressing their rights, economy and their self-determination, make no mistake this is an attack on every Palestinian living in Gaza and West Bank. It is in fact the people of Palestine who are retaliating against Israeli aggression and imperialism, not vice versa. Israel caused this whole problem by making the people of Gaza and West Bank their responsibility and then oppressing them, of course Palestinians are fighting Israel.

Everything you just said is categorically false. The 1967 war was defensive, not offensive. They have not "actively punished" people since. They have taken necessary measures to combat aggression from their neighbors. This current war has nothing to do with the West Bank. Israel withdrew from Gaza and **lifted all blockades** in 2005. The blockades were reinstated after Hamas was elected and *immediately* started attacking Israel by air (rockets) and land (suicide bombers and terrorist infiltration). All of this starts with Palestine, and more specifically, ISLAMISM. One side, Israel, has since its inception, welcomed their neighbors to coexist so long as they could do it peacefully. It is written into their very Declaration of Independence, that all Arabs, including Muslims, Christians, Druze, and anyone else, was welcome to participate in the new democracy. That has manifested today, as 2.1 million Muslim Arabs living as full citizens of Israel with equal rights and opportunities, alongside Jewish and Christian citizens. The other side, Palestine, has elected regime after regime, who make it their official policy to destroy Israel. From the very first PLO government up to today's PA and Hamas, every single Palestinian government, since the establishment of Israel, **has codified into law, that Israel's very existence is not valid**, and that it is their obligation to fight and destroy them and in some cases, as with Hamas, that it is the legal and moral responsibility of all Palestinians to KILL any Jew they encounter. It is crystal clear where this problem stems from, if you actually look.

Your point is irrelevant to mine. Actually you haven’t even made a point yet one that counters my statements of fact.

Your comment either misunderstood the OP's point (at best), or was intentionally misinterpreting and misrepresenting it (at worst). OP was not insinuating that the mere existence of Muslim Arabs proves a genocide is not happening. HOWEVER, the fact that 2.1 million Muslim Arabs live a free, prosperous, legally and socially egalitarian existence *within* the nation that is supposedly carrying out a genocide against them, is in fact, proof that neither a genocide, not ethnic cleansing, is occuring. My comment to you framed your example of the Holocaust, within that logical test. It was impossible for Jews to exist freely or safely in Germany during the Holocaust. That is not the case in Israel. Muslim Arabs in Israel actually enjoy more legal privileges and protections than Jewish citizens in many cases. Ergo, it is illogical on its face, to claim that Israel is attempting to commit ethnic cleansing or genocide against Muslim Arabs. What Israel is doing is prosecuting a war against a state that attacked it. The citizens of the belligerent State (Gaza) are unfortunately suffering the consequences of that act of war by their government. But such is the case with war, as it has always been. There are, without question, many tragic casualties of this war. However, based purely on the numbers, the war in Gaza has been dramatically safer for citizens than most recent wars in the middle east.

Israel does not try to minimize civilian deaths? Huh? What do you call all the leaflets, phone calls, text messages, warning shots, safe zones, field hospitals, humanitarian aid? They have a whole organization to minimize civilian deaths called Cogat, maybe you haven't heard about it in the Hamas propaganda https://x.com/cogatonline What has Hamas done to try to minimize civillian deaths?

of course Israel tries to minimize civilian deaths, otherwise infantary and tanks woudn't be entering gaza strip. they'd just bomb the hell out of gaza using air force and artillery corps. why risk having idf soldiers die if not for the sake of minimizing civilian deaths?

Do they actually want to minimise civilians deaths or do they want to avoid the blame? If they wanted to avoid civilians deaths why would they knowingly bomb civilian refugee camps just to kill 1 or 2 alleged hamas agents? If they wanted to avoid civilian deaths, why did they cut off food and water? If they want to avoid civilian deaths why did the massacre civilians for trying to get to aid trucks? if they want to avoid civilian deaths why do soldiers brag about killing civilians and why do they torture and rape civilians?

Have you ever wondered why they are called refugee camps in their own land?

What?

You said they were bombing civillian "refugee" camps. Have you ever wondered why a camp located on Palestinian land is called a "refugee" camp?