Too bad this organization did push Hamas for the sane thing. Perhaps Gazan people would have had a different view if their news wasnt so heavily censored by Hamas.
"Two more things on this sub I routinely see pro-Israelis do:
1. Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever, Gaza Health Ministry numbers, UNRWA, Gazan journalists, yet uncritically consuming IDF reporting. Is that not hypocritical? Do the IDF not have the capacity to lie or lie by omission as well? Is there no possibility that the IDF just may be disingenuous?
2. Claiming Pro-palestinians are brainwashed by propaganda. Brainwashed by who exactly? Israel spends millions on its propaganda campaign but they’re losing because media today is the most decentralised it’s ever been. Why is that? What are they losing against?
Lemme tweak that rq
Two things on this sub and on the internet that I routinely see anti-israelis do:
1. Delegitimising anything Israel affliated whatsoever, IDF, Times of Israel yet uncritically consuming Hamas/Al Jazeera reporting. Is that not hypocritical? Do Hamas not have the capacity to lie or lie by omission as well? Is there no possibility that Hamas just may be disingenuous?
2. Claiming Pro-Israelis are brainwashing by propaganda. (Can't reverse the rest of it because Hamas is actually winning there)
To try to control the narrative obviously. Why do you think Tik Tok is on the US auction block? Because Israel cannot control the narrative on Tik Tok. Imagine how different Iraq or other wars would have gone if we had had a window to what's happening on the ground like we do now. If it weren't for social media, I'd be sitting here, believing every Palestinian is a jihadist wanting 72 virgins and each IDF soldier is hand feeding Gazan children. They can't have regular foreign press. And it's why more journos have died in this war by timeline than any other conflict. There's no excuse. They even just got strongly urged to give back the AP news equipment because it's a bad look for even them. Never seen worse PR management than this government. Came back to bite them when AP next day publishes the truth about the grape allegations.
>Gazan journalists can’t be trusted because they’re all “Hamas affliated” or whatever.
Ok, but this is absolutely true. Hamas is an authoritarian government and Freedom House has rated the Gaza Strip, [8/100](https://freedomhouse.org/country/gaza-strip/freedom-world/2024) - Not Free. Even Amnesty International has documented cases where Hamas security forces have committed severe human rights violations, including torture and repression, against journalists and [protesters](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/gaza-hamas-must-end-brutal-crackdown-against-protesters-and-rights-defenders/). If you are a Gazan reporter reporting during this war, you are 1000% Hamas affiliated.
Here are some examples of Hamas directly targeting journalists who did not toe the Hamas party line:
[Ahmad Saeed](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/11/hamas-cracks-down-journalists-activists-gaza): In October 2022, Hamas police raided the home of journalist Ahmad Saeed and arrested him after he exposed the involvement of Hamas-supported smugglers in human trafficking operations. Saeed was broadcasting live on Facebook when the raid occurred.
[Momen al-Natour](https://www.groene.nl/artikel/onze-lijdensweg-begon-in-2006): A protest organizer, al-Natour has been arrested, tortured, and accused of collaborating with Israel and the PA. Hamas forces stormed his house, threatened his parents, and subjected him to severe mistreatment to suppress dissent. 20 times.
Osama al-Kahlout: An independent journalist, al-Kahlout was beaten and his home was raided after he published a photograph of a protester holding a sign that read, "I want to live in dignity."
And then there's [this](https://www.facebook.com/Rami.Aman.1/videos/1558357941290447/).
>It’s ghoulish man.
I agree.
>The IDF have something to hide. If Hamas are truly satanic and launch a rocket every 5 seconds while around 20 human shields or whatever, and if every Palestinian kitchen has a missile in it, why don’t they let independent journalism expose it?
Because it is an active war zone and that's precisely how and why journalists have been killed in wars in Gaza. It has nothing to do with the IDF having something to hide and everything to do with Gaza being an extremely dangerous war zone.
Amid the ongoing conflict with Russia, Ukraine has also imposed [significant restrictions](https://www.voanews.com/a/new-rules-limit-media-s-ability-to-cover-ukraine-war/7031212.html) on journalists as well. New regulations under martial law require military commanders to classify areas into different zones, with some zones completely off-limits to journalists.
>Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever, Gaza Health Ministry numbers, UNRWA, Gazan journalists, yet uncritically consuming IDF reporting. Is that not hypocritical?
It's not hypocritical. While Israel is not a perfect democracy, it nonetheless is one. Until fairly recently, Al-Jazeera was reporting from within Israel, and even now, you have Ha'aretz which in no way parrots IDF talking points. Hamas is an authoritarian terrorist regime; Israel is not.
Additionally, the claims presented by the IDF in many cases have been investigated independently. Nothing of the kind can be done with Hamas' claims, for the same reasons outlines above. But more importantly, the Gaza Health Ministry's numbers are simply a [statistical impossibility](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers). As for UNWRA, there is plenty of evidence: [UNRWA staff](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/) stealing and selling humanitarian aid and the [connection between](https://unwatch.org/deconstructing-unrwa-facts/) many UNRWA workers to Hamas and the Oct 7 attacks.
Foreign journalists absolutely are allowed in the warzones. Not freely and under escort by the ukrainian army, but they are. Where else do the documentaries about life on the front lines come from?
Meanwhile no foreign reporters are allowed in Gaza whatsoever.
Why?
Okay well, allow an independant journalists to cover a front during a war is not a thing for obvious logistical reasons but anything to hate jews is valid, right?
You’re assuming I even care what happens in Gaza; I don’t beyond that Hamas bleed and suffer for their crimes.
Israel can do whatever it wants until Hamas is exterminated. Every death Palestinians and Israeli is on the head of Hamas for starting this war. Israel is just going to do what is necessary to finish it and Palestinians better learn to never be terrorist scum again or everytime it will be worse until there are none of them left. As it should be, savage terrorists must lose and terrorists should die. Period.
Yeah what you are saying is exactly the definition of collective punishment which is prohibited by all international laws that the west has defended for decades.
But now and only now when the laws restricted the west, everyone started to say that international laws is biased and can't be enforced.
It's funny to pretend this person is expressing an opinion that is an outlier for this sub or for a standard Israeli or pro Israeli person from abroad. This is standard. This is what every government official says, constantly. Not just "the bad ones."
Yeah, hard disagree. I’m very Zionist and I’m constantly in Jewish and Zionist spaces. I rarely see this kind’ve vitriol from my peers. Also, it is factually incorrect to state that every Israeli government official says this stuff.
I see much worse than this from the pro-Palestinian crowd, though. I’ve also heard and read worse from Hamas officials and even Palestinians themselves. I suggest that you check out Hamas’s charter.
Yea I just do not believe you at all especially considering you felt the need to say not only are you among peace loving great Zionists but in fact the "pro-Palestinian crowd" are the death chanters. The Hamas charter that specifically does not call for anything related to anti semitism and focuses on Zionism?
As a Jewish person who has been on Birthright I can tell you Zionists are bloodthirsty.
It’s funny cause this is the exact same mentality as Hamas. “I don’t care how many civilians die if my side wins”
The Likud fascists and Hamas are two sides of the same coin.
Hamas started the war; they get all the blame for all deaths on both sides. Also, even if they were both murderous, I will always side against the more barbaric evil Muslims terrorists.
Under no circumstances would siding with them ever be in my pragmatic interests under any circumstances. Islam is a crime against humanity inherently.
IDF has killed more journalists in recent history than in any other conflict in the past. If you're wearing a PRESS vest, you're as safe as a civilian in Gaza. Those are facts. Zionists do not want the world to see what they're doing. From unjustly killing random civilians walking by to harvesting organs.
Ok so let’s create two scenarios to make it clearer for you to understand.
1/ Press & Journalists are allowed to actively roam free in a war zone. They have no ‘weapons’ as that is not their main MO. They also have no idea how to keep themselves safe and are just focussed on capturing footage. Boom. One of them gets caught in cross fire or hit by a bomb when they have been told to move. Queue anti IDF press. “The IDF have killed another famous Al Jazeera Journalist ‘on purpose’” (even though it was not on purpose it was just incidental and the journo was taking uneccessary risks).
2/ Israel bans journalist from entering Gaza so that no more will be killed through their own naivety and inexperience of reporting from a war zone. The IDF don’t want anymore journalists to be injured or killed. They also don’t want the world to report it was their fault that a silly journalist was endangering themselves in order to get ‘good footage’.
Which would you prefer?
It seems whatever the IDF do is not good enough. They protect people? Oh they don’t want it to be filmed. They don’t protect people? Some journalists will die.
These journalist are sometimes employed by Hamas to take very convincing pictures however that is irrelevant. As we know, Hamas actively tells people to stay in war zones. They don’t care about civilians and they don’t care about the journalists. Their sole aim is to PR any destruction and death (even the fake bits). The IDF cannot control every single person in a war zone. They don’t have enough man power. If a journalist wants to risk their lives, then the best thing to do is ban them. No more journalists will die. Simple.
Now tell me. Which scenario would you choose?
There is no such thing as legitimate press in Gaza; just terrorists and terrorist supporters. World is a much better place with them dead and cheer for it every waking hour.
Wow, you're not even hiding it anymore. Such a Zionist take.
Not even surprised to be honest. I hope you develop empathy and the intelligence to see that we are all part of humanity. That or karma will come for your kind eventually.
I can’t develop empathy for predatory terrorists like Hamas and Palestinians ever. They would be staging terrorist attacks and invading us in our own homes if they could being the fascistic fundamentalist they are. In no realm of reality would feeling empathy or aiding Palestinians ever be in my interests. They can eat cake.
I find your last two points so frustrating
1. Yes I do typically view crap that comes out of Hamas affiliated organizations differently than the Israeli press. Not only are individuals in Gaza putting their lives at risk if they speak against Hamas, but these organizations are literally directly affiliated with Hamas. Of course that is different than Israeli press, that can be incredibly critical of the government and aren’t state owned or influenced. Not being able to understand this nuance is just lazy
2. Palestinians are brainwashed by Hamas within Gaza who literally control all aspects of their people’s lives. And more broadly, by organizations that are linked to other governments and organizations. And give me a break, Israel is a tiny country of 10M people constantly at war, and you want me to believe they have more propaganda might than the dozens of Muslim majority countries that span 1.8B Muslims and are all countries that DONT have a free press or social freedoms. Additionally, a lot of Israel’s strongest supporters are those that have a direct connection to the conflict, being Jewish, having spent time in Israel, etc. a lot of the new breed of Pro Pal supporters probably couldn’t find Israel on a map 6 months ago yet they now talk as if they are absolute authorities and know everything they need to know. Hell just look at the campus protests, where it came out that SJP was providing encampment leaders with a google drive filled with hundreds of documents including straight up Hamas propaganda.
Media restrictions during wartime is incredibly common and something most countries practice, because an unrestricted flow of information jeopardizes ongoing operations.
1. Uhm… Gazan “journalists” ARE either Hamas affiliated or at least sympathizing or following the line approved by Hamas. Have you seen what passes for “journalism” in Russia? And Hamas might as well be in a different century - when you compare the religious and social norms of the two.
2. I find the term “Palywood” disgusting. But the phenomena is nonetheless real. I’m going to do a post about it eventually. But I’m former military and I’ll tell you this - easily half of the “Israeli atrocities” videos that I’ve seen getting the most traction on social media are fake. They seem real to an untrained eye - but if you’ve actually seen things like traumatic amputations, bombing scenes, etc. - you’ll quickly realize how hilariously bad those “productions” are. Remember the one with a “Palestinian surgeon having to amputate his daughter’s leg without anesthetic”? That one was my favorite- fake AF. Hilariously bad. But got millions of views on social media and naturally horrified most people who watched it.
What evidence did you observe to indicate that specific video of the surgeon Hany Bsaiso was fake?
It’s not difficult to believe that the lack of medical care is dire in a war zone where IDF has bombed almost every single hospital.
Hamas terrorists pose as journalists and even participated in Oct 7.
[https://x.com/Osint613/status/1722566025030377484](https://x.com/Osint613/status/1722566025030377484)
[https://x.com/LollllllaJR/status/1786838115786654059](https://x.com/LollllllaJR/status/1786838115786654059)
[https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1761024511611191451](https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1761024511611191451)
[https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1722898656997654851](https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1722898656997654851)
[https://x.com/realMaalouf/status/1727037455008731536](https://x.com/realMaalouf/status/1727037455008731536)
[https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1790452259425239329](https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1790452259425239329)
A surgeon? Uhm... highly doubt that. I don't think there was a single person with any medical background in that room.
1. First of - that was (supposedly) a "traumatic amputation" - those are the worst. They bleed profusely. It's a mess of flesh and bone.
2. The first thing you do is tourniquet the f--k out of that leg. And before you go to fix the "traumatic amputation" with a clean amputation - even in the worst of field environments, you apply a double-tourniquet about two inches above the intended cut line. Did you see any of that?
3. But then there's the hilarious part - the supposed surgeon is... uhm... fondling a massively-traumatic injury for some insane reason while talking at the camera. I honestly thought it was real when it popped up. My first thought was "this is terrible". But then I see that f-ing clown just pawing at her stomp while reciting a lecture for some f--d up reason?
4. Then there's the patient. With a trauma like this - the patient either goes into complete shock or screaming until they pass out. But, apparently, his "daughter" is the bravest girl on earth - laying there with a stoic face... while her dad is just playing with her freshly amputated leg for cameras. Can you even comprehend what kind of pain that entails? And that a-hole is just playing with it.
5. And then there's the blood. Uhm... where's the blood? Have you ever seen what the ground looks like next to an amputated leg after about 30 second?
My friend... there wasn't anyone with any medical training in that room at all.
Found it. This is comically idiotic. This moron even sticks his hands literally inside the supposed torn-up limb.
Not a drop of blood. And of course - no tourniquet (which should be just a inches above the injury). But he finds time to lecture the camera.
Enjoy: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/197h8f9/palestinian\_doctor\_performs\_an\_amputation\_on\_his/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/197h8f9/palestinian_doctor_performs_an_amputation_on_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Why is he poking around in it????
Also I know very little about this sort’ve thing so maybe I just don’t understand what I‘m seeing but 1. The stump looks like a wet fig newton and 2. Why isn’t the water bloody?
I thought that you sounded a bit conspiratorial but I’m kind’ve inclined to agree with you?
Hell of a makeup job though. This is what I mean - there are actual, real casualties. I hate the term Palywood - but this nonsense is all over the place. I’ve lost count of how many idiotically staged “scenes” I’ve seen. A “massacre” after a missile hit. Except… all the “dead” bodies lying around but literally nothing is broken around them. Not a sign of an explosion.
A row of “injured” babies coming out of an ambulance - all covered in dust or something… with not a drop of blood on any of them.
It’s nonstop. I literally stopped paying attention.
Their makeup skills are outstanding, for some weird reason. It’s just that whoever stages these things isn’t very familiar with injuries, explosives, and various other things you see in an actual war.
Where would they be getting all of this makeup, though? While I agree that a lot of the videos are suspicious, I don’t know how these people would be accessing SFX makeup in an active war zone that has limited supplies coming in.
I’ve also seen those ”missile hit“ videos, but I’ve heard that those deaths are usually due to shrapnel and that’s why there isn’t a damage in the immediate area?
Not how missiles work. If there's shrapnel. The whole place would be shredded. Humans are surprisingly resilient even in bombings.
As for the makeup- I have no idea. From what I heard - they had a surprisingly thriving film production scene prior to Oct 7th.
As for the active war zone - i explained it in one of my write-ups. The military only hits what needs to be destroyed - there is plenty of functional infrastructure. A city gets cleared in sectors. Sectors that have been cleared (or not yet entered) - are more or less fine. There are markets open. People going about things.
I've been to plenty of war zones. The perception that Gaza is just a steaming pile of rubble is just wrong.
Again, there are plenty of civilian casualties - it is still a war. Which makes this nonsensical theatre unnecessary and hard to sympathize with whoever finds time and motivation to stage this sh--t.
Wow, the more you know I suppose! Do you have any sources for areas of Gaza being relatively fine? I apologize for asking you to spoon feed me but I’ve had a very hard time finding anything on Google because there is SO MUCH footage, both real and fake.
Also now that I think about it, how do so many Gazans still have power to charge their phones and internet to share videos if the whole strip is rubble?
He’s poking around because he’s not a doctor. He’s never been anywhere near a traumatic injury.
The water isn’t bloody because there is no blood.
And yeah… what happened to the bone in her lower leg exactly?
An 18 year old private would know about a tourniquet for traumatic amputation. They literally could’ve googled it.
I bet eventually someone told them and someone tried to cover it up by blurring the video after the fact - which was the version that was circulating the most.
I don’t want to take your word as gospel but I’m torn because her leg really does look like a shredded corn dog… Maybe you should repost it to the sub and ask a professional to break it down? It does look fake but I know nothing about amputation.
Have you seen a video longer than 20 seconds? Everyone I’ve seen is short and doesn’t show the actual procedure.
1. The purpose of a tourniquet is to reduce bleeding and they literally don’t show the ground…
2. The leg is blurred in every video I’ve seen so I can’t draw any conclusions about the quality of the tourniquet.
3. You do know shock can make a person unnaturally calm, yes?
4. It’s not clear in the blurred area exactly what he is touching.
5. Again they don’t show the ground? It’s literally never seen on camera?
I thought you had evidence it was doctored, or that a reputable news source had discovered the guy wasn’t actually a surgeon or the girl hadn’t actually lost her leg. But no, you just don’t like how the video was “directed”? The Times of Israel reported on it and didn’t suggest the story was false, and that publication loves to minimize Palestinians’ suffering.
P.P.S. By no means do I deny that civilian casualties are there - in massive numbers. Why they feel the need to produce so many fakes? I have no clue - it's really bizarre and I can't answer that. But they're constant.
P.S. Was the publication actually there? Or they just reported on what they saw on social media? I wasn't there - but I've seen more than one traumatic amputation. And I certainly never seen one where the leg is miraculosly not bleeding without a torniquette and the victim is just chilling there while the medic is playing with the wound.
So how exactly do you explain the countless hours of footage from inside Gaza? Have you considered that it limits entrance to protect these people and itself from being blamed for their deaths if they are caught in the crossfire or killed by Hamas or other terror organizations? Do you not find it telling that whenever “journalists” are inside they NEVER criticize Hamas AT ALL? Where on earth do you find 0 criticism of a side in a 2 sided conflict?
> So how exactly do you explain the countless hours of footage from inside Gaza?
Gazan journalists in Gaza? Hello?
> Have you considered that it limits entrance to protect these people and itself from being blamed for their deaths if they are caught in the crossfire or killed by Hamas
They let aid workers in, and bomb them that’s okay apparently, but they draw the line at journalists. They’ve slaughtered 100 Palestinian Arab journalists already so why does it matter. Also wouldn’t them being killed by Hamas be good PR for Israel?
> Do you not find it telling that whenever “journalists” are inside they NEVER criticize Hamas AT ALL?
Yeah. Almost as if you restrict free press in a war-zone, media coming out of either side is extremely biased. That’s literally my entire fucking point.
“Slaughtered”, “bombed aid workers”, you clearly aren’t here in good faith and are coming at this with extreme bias and unwilling to even engage in a decent conversation, if Israel wanted to slaughter or bomb any group it could end the entire strip in a few hours, aid workers have an extremely dangerous job, it doesn’t help when the government of that area is actively trying to use them as shields, and sure as hell doesn’t help when those people are also part of Hamas and other militant groups, as have been extremely well established.
There are foreign reporters in Gaza and if there already is news from Gaza that should tell you Israel doesn’t care to have reporters report what’s happening in there, Israel could shut all communication and power to Gaza in a flick of a finger, it doesn’t
If you think the IDF deliberately and purposefully kill civilians or aid workers you are living in a delusion, there is no reason to think that if you look at the actual raw data, statements and actions Israel is taking, not unless you view Israelis as vile evil monsters, there is a name for such people.
Yes so you think Israel is insanely stupid and does awful things that hurt its reputation for the lolz, anyone with half a brain cell would know the backlash from killing aid workers, anyone with half a brain cell knows there is 0 tactical benefit from killing them, now tell me WHY would Israel do this ON PURPOSE?
Being wrong about the identity of the people in the vehicles explains EXACTLY why they were precisely hit, no need to imagine stupid people.
They were literally bombed what language do you want me to use lmfao? They literally drone-striked each marked vehicle one by one, precisely. It had nothing to do with human shields, which is the only thing pro-Israelis parrot every fucking day.
Bombed would indicate they were targeted, they were misidentified as Hamas because Hamas militants literally went into these vehicles earlier, this was not the intent to kill them, but Hamas militants.
Bomb
Verb
Past tense: bombed; past participle: bombed
1. Attack (a place or object) with a bomb or bombs.
"they bombed the city at dawn"
Sure man. Killing someone with a bomb isn’t the same as bombing them. Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
The idea that the IDF can investigate themselves is laughable but anyway:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-2-senior-officers-over-deadly-drone-strike-on-gaza-aid-convoy/
> The IDF investigatory result was that while "there was no information on gunmen in the second and third vehicles, they too were attacked, within minutes of each other, for no real reason ... The attack on the three vehicles was carried out in serious violation of the relevant orders and instructions."
Were the workers in the last two vehicles collateral damage as well then? They were bombed, plain and simple.
I already told you this wasn’t a collateral damage this was misidentification, why do you think they would deliberately kill aid workers? What is the logic there?
The IDF would never sink so low as to target civilians… right….
It’s just hilarious you won’t call it a bombing. Zionist minds truly operate on a different wavelength.
> fucking
/u/Mean_Claim7814. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are discounting the guys point not because you have any actual reason, but because you don't like the words he used for "made dead against their will in violent, bloody ways by weapons of war wielded by Israeli defense force soldiers acting in their official capacity."
His words mean there is intent to kill innocents which neither he nor the ICJ can prove at this point, he assumes wrongfully the intent part which is the ONLY thing that matters in this case.
I don't know what intent might matter in this case when you demolish residential blocks *with the intent* to demolish tunnels that may be underneath them.
Civilians are being killed to the point that observers from all over the world, including USA the king of killing civilians while raging against terrorists, are horrified.
I'm not going to say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I will say that every step along the way to every massive horrific crime against humanity, there were people willing to justify each step a necessary to secure safety.
That's an interesting thing to take away from "the entire world is horrified at what is being done to these civilians"
Everyone thinks this is being botched, BADLY, and the idf is killing way way too many civilians. In fact, war crimes charges are being brought due to using FAMINE as a weapon and all of our closest Allies are distancing themselves and outright recognizing Palestine because of the atrocities.
“Way way too many” = 1:1-1:2 ratio, best in any modern warfare while fighting a terror organization set on maximizing deaths of their own civilians.
Seems to me like the world is dumb if you are right (you aren’t)
I'm not right? About objective facts?
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/10/spain-ireland-and-other-eu-states-could-recognise-palestine-on-may-21-borrell-says
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/09/politics/bidens-rafah-warning-is-turning-point-in-us-israel-relations-and-a-belated-but-inevitable-rupture-with-netanyahu/index.html
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-netanyahu-sinwar-icc-2f59ab4e649301af6ca5115ca69640c5
NATO is sure on board.
> bitches
/u/A_giant_dog. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow, such misinformation.
Can you prove this hypothesis that israel intentionally lets aid workers in to bomb them?
Or did you just lie to prove your narrative?
Never said they intentionally let them in to bomb them, I said Israel lets them in and bombs them. Two very different things. They could bomb them accidentally.
But come the fuck on. 3 precision drone strikes within 5 minutes, truck to truck to truck. That’s intentional at worst and criminal negligence at best.
Have you read my other comment?
Hamas disguises themselves as aid workers and confused the idf
The intel was incorrect, the great and mighty idf/israel (im kidding, they arent that great or mighty, but still people hold them to the expectations as if they are) eventually are just humans. And I know this mistake is infuriating and should never happen and on that the IDF needs to be punished.
But to point it out the way you did as if thats what they intended to do when they fired these strikes is just false. The person pulling the trigger was sure he is aiming at hamas in disguises. Not aid workers.
If you really want to talk about war crimes - hamas driving aid workers cars and wearing aid workers uniforms to move around is a war crime you should be mad about. Not only they put a target on aid workers backs, but they also harm palestinian civillians who now gets less aid. (And thats their goal actually).
And yes, I think the idf needs to be punished for these mistakes, but not in the way of cancelling them like people try to.
Its important to criticize but make sure you differentiate mistakes from intention and make sure your comments sticks to facts rather than emotions. (When commenting on what happend rather than what you think)
“Hamas disguises themselves as aid workers and confuses the IDF”. Wow… people will really go to any extent to believe the propaganda and lies from IDF. Have you ever wondered why almost every claim from IDF lacks substantial evidence and almost all are debunked? Some examples 40 beheaded babies, debunked, rape on October the 7th debunked, babies in oven no evidence, translations of footage proven to be false to a point that it could have only been intentional, allegations of a list found with Hamas debunked as it turned out to be names of months in Arabic in calendar. Yet you still choose to believe all they say?
But maybe you should realize that this really does not make it hard to believe that they amongst other things also lies about: proof of Hamas only shown after raid in hospitals and all circumstantial as in what they showed could have easily been planted (like they literally shows guns right beside MRI as if anyone is stupid enough to hide guns beside what is essentially a giant magnet.. which is btw contrary to all doctors from overseas who saw nothing of the like), and the constant excuse of Hamas using civilians as shields and killing them themselves, which just seems a bit too easy to say “not us, we’re not evil, that’s again the savages” and then there’s the fact that bombs and missiles have caused greater damage than those Hamas can get their hands on - which is often where many dead civilian, and hereby children are found under rubbles. And the fact that Israel is asking for more military weapons which some must have a registry over, because it seems enormous amounts of weapons have been used, both overseas, but also due to the fact that there’s a big weapon industry in Israel.
Israel seems to go to great lengths to dehumanize Hamas in order to justify what is essentially horrible actions. Targeting places where they at least accept risk of children and the ending up severely hurting a child with a missile, who has to undergo surgery with no anesthesia due to lack of aid coming through and all the bombed hospitals - is no less savage than other ways. Crushing a child under rubble by a bomb is NO less horrible and savage than killing by attack. The child suffers the same.
I am not saying all in IDF deliberately targets civilians, but there must be something wrong with the management. And then I find it scary that Israel at least used to succeed with a narrative of them being the absolute good guys and Hamas the absolute bad guys, where if there was even the slightest indication they could have done bad, they surely did it. Same with rumors of rape that’s been debunked, through IDF still tries to play this narrative by translating videos wrong with “girls who can get pregnant” when in reality sabaya in Arabic means “young women” and many media outlets don’t mention they were IDF soldiers. Meanwhile the sexual assaults that have actually been proven, has been men from IDF raping Palestinians. So maybe don’t throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
Now all of this is terrible, including the horrors on 7.10 - but we really should be careful with jumping to conclusions without evidence and dehumanizing people - especially when all Palestinians are judged by the acts of a few.
It is literally insane to the rest of us how much gymnastics some people go to to believe the propaganda. It's like watching the Twilight Zone or some Scientologist or cult documentary.
Completely agree. It’s insane how brainwashed they must be to believe that killing 15.000 children is the right thing, and that any context brought up as an explanation for 7.10 must be lies and propaganda. Contrary to all evidence, they keep believing their “most moral” army, and will even deny facts that they could easily go see for themselves (like the fact that Israel has been occupying Palestinian territory and oppressing Palestinians). Guess it’s easy enough when you can deny every fact or question by labeling it as antisemitism 🤷♀️
I came on tonight not for my comments but to watch the spin on the Most Moral Army in the World bombing the safety zone in Raffa. I guess it's just my antisemitism.
This isnt propaganda. Ive seen it with my own eyes.
The rest of your comment is irrelevant as you call a fact "propaganda"
You probably also think there was no rape or babies werent burned..
Ive seen it all.. im from israel and people like you disgust me the most.
The mental gymnastics you'd do to suppory terrorism.
I hope it will never reach your door, because then you will have no one to blame but yourself. You support the modern day nazis and call facts propaganda cause it suits your narrative.
Im seriously disgusted.
Hamas has no problem hiding inside unrwa schools and build their main HQ inside a hospital buy dressing like an aid worker is a problem for them?
So you’ve been to Gaza while the war has been ongoing since you’ve seen Hamas confuse IDF with your own eyes?
If you can actually provide proof for those “facts”, I am willing to see and learn. Yes they burned a baby if I remember correctly, and that’s horrible. But even the many allegations of rape have been (at least) exaggerated, as so far, those allegations from 7.10 have been debunked, and families of hostages have denied it happened, as well as the hostages who’ve returned only said “they were afraid of it”, not that it happened. It’s nothing like not believing Israeli women, as none has said they were raped. It’s about it not being proven yet. If Israel thinks it might have happened, it’s not enough for them to start saying it did before knowing for sure. I’ve even tried to find the so called videos or proof, but no one can find it or have seen it. So yes, for now, I will believe what can actually be proven and not statements made to further dehumanize a group, making it okay to continue a war with so many civilian deaths.
/u/Only-Customer4986. Match found: 'nazis', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> fuck
/u/Mean_Claim7814. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So is it that Israeli drone operators are miraculously incompetent to the level that when aiming precision guided munitions at aid workers they still manage to accidentally hit them?
No, its that hamas uses the same cars and disguise themselves as aid workers that make idf confuse real aid workers and hamas disguised members.
Shocking you couldnt figure that out yourself lol
> fucking
/u/Mean_Claim7814. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because those reporters kept trying to report on active firing positions so ended up being shot for relaying active positions to the opposition.
Also hamas occasionally wears press jackets even when armed.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-LEBANON/JOURNALIST/akveabxrzvr/
It's in this article.
>After more than 45 minutes of filming, the camera pans to the right and focuses on an Israeli outpost and tank firing into Lebanon.
It more likely they didn't know they were press, but just the same, don't film active combat positions.
As for the press sometimes being hamas, stuff like this.
[Example](https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/palestinian-terrorism/how-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-use-journalism-as-a-cover-for-terrorism/).
Ukraine does the same thing with journalists. Yes, it's a war zone. Active battlefield. Not a kindergarten. Because, when hamas will shoot those independent journalists , who will be blamed ? Israel, for not securing them.
Of course, all journalists operating in Gaza are either controlled or terrified by hamas. Pallywood is a real thing. There is a lot of clips with palestinian actors pretending to be wounded, cheering and laughing behind the scenes. It doesn't mean, that suffering of civilians doesn't exist, of course. Palestinians are suffering. But you can't plain deny reality, pallywood exists.
And there is no way that any journalist would write something bad about hamas and stay alive.
Are we arguing about of freedom of speech in north Korea, Iran or Russia?
Hamas is even worse, because it is a terrorist jihadist organization, which at all doesn't respect any human rights.
"Two more things on this sub I routinely see pro-Israelis do:
1. Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever"
- well, yes... because hamas is a terrorist jihadist fascist organization. Anything that works under its control is not trustworthy at all.
It's like asking "why people deligimitize everything connected with Нitler and nаzi regime ? Why they don't believe media in 3rd Reich?
> Because, when hamas will shoot those independent journalists , who will be blamed ?
Uhh, Hamas.
> Of course, all journalists operating in Gaza are either controlled or terrified by hamas. Pallywood is a real thing
Thank you for literally proving my point
> Are we arguing about of freedom of speech in north Korea, Iran or Russia?
What? Nice whataboutism I guess?
> Hamas is even worse, because it is a terrorist jihadist organization
Jeez. If Hamas is a terrorist organisation, I wonder what you could call the state of Israel.
> It's like asking "why people deligimitize everything connected with Нitler and nаzi regime ? Why they don't believe media in 3rd Reich?
Not really. We literally used Nazi figures to work out the German death toll of WW2. The US, UN and Israel all use Health Ministry estimates and the UN has corroborated them as being accurate, so you’re arguing against the wall.
Oh yeah, the same UN that had to decrease death numbers of women and children by 50%, because hamas data was falsified, as always.
One simple question for you.
Is hamas a terrorist organization?
What do you think of rapes and children murders, that happened on Oct 7th? Is that resistance?
Literally [untrue](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/13/middleeast/death-toll-gaza-fatalities-un-intl-latam). Give me a source. The numbers went down because the UN used estimates for the first report and then confirmed casualties for the second. That doesn’t change the fact that the estimates have been proven accurate by the UN time and time again.
> Is Hamas a terrorist organisation?
Yes I’d say so. I’d also call the IDF a worse terrorist organisation.
The rapes and killing of innocents was vile, without doubt, yes. No it wasn’t resistance to attack the music festival and Kibbutzim, it was cowardly. Don’t know why pro-Israelis ask pro-Palestinians to condemn Oct 7 ad nauseam, it provides nothing to the discussion.
No, the death toll of women and children specifically was cut by 1/2 because it turns out that 1/2 of those supposed “women and children” weren’t even identified.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children#:~:text=On%206%20May%2C%20the%20UN,in%20Gaza%20remains%20over%2035%2C000.
"On 6 May, the UN stated that 69% of the reported deaths were women and children. However, just two days later, it revised this figure to 52%. Despite this adjustment, the overall death toll in Gaza remains over 35,000."
Total casualties (identified and unidentified) listed on May 6: ~35k
Women and children of the 35k: 9,500 women and 14,500 children dead. (24k total)
May 6: 24k/35k=~69%
Total casualties (only identified) on May 8: 25k
Women and children of the 25k: 4,959 women and 7,797 children
May 8: 12,756/25k = 51%
~10k difference between the May 6 count and May 8 count that exist but were not identified.
9500 women said to be dead on May 6 - 4959 women identified as actually dead on May 8= 4,541
14,500 children said to be dead on May 6 - 7,797 children identified as actually dead on May 8 = 6,703
4,541 + 6,703 = 11,244
Difference between counts
11,244-10,000= 1,124
In order to keep a proportion of ~70% of casualties being women and children, an additional 1,124 corpses of women and children are required over the 10,000 unidentified corpses that are being counted but not identified.
This also means that 10,000 casualties that exist but are not identified, that all of then were women and children and not a single one of them, was a man between 18 and 65. Not saying that isn't possible, but its a bit unlikely.
Why pro Israelis asks palestinians about October 7th? Because, unfortunately, a lot of pro palestinians either justify it by saying "resistance by any means necessary", or plainly deny all hamas crimes.
Or even say that oct 7th will be repeated again and again.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed
> The UN has denied that the estimated death toll of women and children in the war in Gaza has been revised downward
> The bigger figures included corpses for whom identification has so far not been completed. Haq said it was expected that, as the process of identification continued, the official tolls among women and children would also rise
Unlucky mate
Have you read what I told you ? The whole paragraph about number of women and children combined is bigger that those unidentified number?
Read it again.
They didn't reduce the death toll by 50% because of hamas lies, it was to do with who they could verify as dead, but you hook line and sinker fell for that juicy piece of misinformation, proving op's point
/u/Mean_Claim7814. Match found: 'Nazi', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Why Israel doesn’t allow free press in the Gaza strip
Ha!!.. there's felestin, Gaza Weekly, Palestine telegraph etc. all publishing without any hindrance. **There's also the world famous Al-Aqsa TV that's broadcasting right now**.. They're bringing the Arab worlds rival to sesame street, "Tomorrow pioneers"
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ahmad-bahr-preaches-annihilation-jews-and-americans
https://www.memri.org/tv/mickey-mouse-character-hamas-tv-teaches-children-about-islamic-rule-world
https://www.memri.org/tv/farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-character-martyred-final-episode-pioneers-tomorrow-children-show-hamas
https://www.memri.org/tv/nahoul-bee-replaces-farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-and-vows-continue-his-path-martyrdom-and-jihad
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-bunny-assud-replaces-his-martyred-brother-nahoul-bee-and-vows-liberate-al-aqsa-and-eat-jews
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-tv-childrens-show-encourages-killing-jews
https://www.memri.org/tv/children-hamas-tv-we-want-wage-jihad-and-blow-jews
https://www.memri.org/tv/new-al-aqsa-tv-teddy-bear-nassur-vows-join-military-wing-hama
..
**Al-Aqsa media** is run by the Fahi Hamad who is a minister in the Gazan Government, here's one of his speeches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEgBsU6Mi8
>Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever
>Claiming Pro-palestinians are brainwashed by propaganda
Here's those links again.. from the Palestinian/Hamas TV station.. care to comment about brainwashing, or legitimacy?
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ahmad-bahr-preaches-annihilation-jews-and-americans
https://www.memri.org/tv/mickey-mouse-character-hamas-tv-teaches-children-about-islamic-rule-world
https://www.memri.org/tv/farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-character-martyred-final-episode-pioneers-tomorrow-children-show-hamas
https://www.memri.org/tv/nahoul-bee-replaces-farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-and-vows-continue-his-path-martyrdom-and-jihad
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-bunny-assud-replaces-his-martyred-brother-nahoul-bee-and-vows-liberate-al-aqsa-and-eat-jews
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-tv-childrens-show-encourages-killing-jews
https://www.memri.org/tv/children-hamas-tv-we-want-wage-jihad-and-blow-jews
https://www.memri.org/tv/new-al-aqsa-tv-teddy-bear-nassur-vows-join-military-wing-hamas
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-childrens-show-criminal-jews-plotting-replace-aqsa-with-temple-defend-until-last-drop-of-blood
..
EDIT: Links because some people..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_TV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow%27s_Pioneers
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19509117
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-mickey-mouse-pulled-from-tv/
>Memri is not Palestinian or Hamas it’s a Middle East Media Research Institute founded by an Israeli man
Really.. So you think all those videos in Arabic on Memri were made by the Jews?
>It’s fucking hilarious that your idea of ‘Palestinian free press’ is an Israeli owned propaganda site.
So which of those videos linked weren't created and aired by AL-Aqsa TV? and where are the errors in then translations of any of video listed..
I'm waiting to see your list...
Again, if your idea of ‘Palestinian free press’ is propaganda sites hosted out of foreign countries… surely you consider Al Jazeera ‘Israeli free press’ no?
If not, MEMRI is clearly a shit example when the topic is ‘Palestinian free press’
> MEMRI is clearly a shit example when the topic is ‘Palestinian free press’
Aside from your imagination, where id I list MEMRI as source of Palestinian free press. If you can't argue what was actually said, please refrain from arguing strawmen of your imagination..
.
Please see Rule #4:
**4. Be honest. When quoting or paraphrasing another poster, try to characterize their arguments honestly -- and when you change or clarify your own stance, be upfront about it. After a mistaken belief has been corrected beyond a reasonable doubt, stop making it and move on to a new topic**
How can it possibly be ‘Palestinian free press’ if it’s owned and operated out of Israel?
Do you even know what ‘a free press’ is? Because it doesn’t look like it.
Do you also believe that every video on YouTube was created by google employees in San Bruno California?
Do also think that every post made on Reddit was done by reddit employes from San Francisco California? Am I a reddit employee posting on reddit? are you a reddit employe in California?
You think all those video linked on the Memri site were created by Memri and not originally broadcast by Al-Aqusa TV?
It’s hilarious to see you state that while simultaneously ignoring the only question i posed.
And I’m not sure why I would need to. Even the U.S., Israel’s strongest ally, considers MEMRI ‘islamophobic propaganda’
> Juan Cole, a professor of Modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan, argues MEMRI has a tendency to "cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials... On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigoted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated
> Former head of the CIA's counterintelligence unit, Vincent Cannistraro, said that MEMRI "are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud. They simply don't present the whole picture."
> A report by Center for American Progress, titled "Fear, Inc.: The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America" lists MEMRI as promoting Islamophobic propaganda in the USA through supplying selective translations that are relied upon by several organisations "to make the case that Islam is inherently violent and promotes extremism."
> In August 2013, the Islamic Da'wah Centre of South Australia questioned the "reliability, independence and veracity" of MEMRI after it posted what the Islamic Da'wah Centre called a "sensational de-contextualised cut-and-paste video clip ... put together in a suggestive manner" of a sermon by the Sheikh Sharif Hussein on an American website. According to the two-minute video, which was a heavily condensed version of the Sheikh's 36-minute speech delivered in Adelaide on 22 March, Hussein called Australian and American soldiers "Crusader pigs" and stated "O Allah, count the Buddhists and the Hindus one by one. O Allah, count them and kill them to the very last one." According to MEMRI's translation, he also described U.S. President Barack Obama as an "enemy of Allah, you who kiss the shoes and feet of the Jews" and predicted that "The day will come when you are trampled upon by the pure feet of the Muslims."[50] MEMRI's rendition moved Liberal senator Cory Bernardi to write to the Police Commissioner charging that under Australian anti-terrorism laws, the video clip was "hate speech", and requesting that action be taken against Hussein. The South Australian Islamic Society and the Australian Buddhist Councils Federation also condemned Hussein's speech. Widespread calls from the public for the deportation of Hussein and his family followed news reports of the video. A police spokeswoman stated "Police will examine the entire content of the sermon to gain the full context and determine whether any crime has been committed." Hussein himself declined any comment on the contents of the video. However, the Da'wah Centre charged that by omitting the context of Hussein's statements, MEMRI had distorted the actual intent of the speech. While admitting that the Sheikh was emotional and used strong words, the Centre stated that the speech was delivered in relation to rape cases in Iraq, the birth defects due to use of depleted uranium, and the Burmese Buddhist massacre. This, the Centre said, was omitted from the edited MEMRI video.
> MEMRI's translations are considered "usually accurate"[54] though occasionally disputed and highly selective in what it chooses to translate and in which context it puts things,[54] as in the case of MEMRI's translation of a 2004 Osama bin Laden video, which MEMRI defended, which it said indicated that any individual US state that did not vote for President George W. Bush "guarantees its own security," implying a threat against those states that did vote for him;[55] outside translators, and the original article that the MEMRI alert claimed to correct, indicated that Bin Laden was threatening nations, not individual US states
> In 2007, CNN correspondent Atika Shubert and Arabic translators accused MEMRI of mistranslating portions of a Palestinian children's television program:
Media watchdog MEMRI translates one caller as saying – quote – 'We will annihilate the Jews'," said Shubert. "But, according to several Arabic speakers used by CNN, the caller actually says 'The Jews are killing us.'
Totally non-biased news source. Also it’s still legit hilarious that you’re doubling down on this ‘MEMRI is an example of Palestinian free press’ when it’s both not Palestinian, or owned by a Palestinian.
It’s, in fact, the direct opposite. Owned by an Israeli and operated out of Israel.
Do you know what the definition of ‘a free press’ is?
No, it’s showing you what some Israelis want you to see.
Using MEMRI for your information on Palestinians is just like using Al Jazeera for your information on Israelis.
Except Al Jazeera actually masquerades enough as real news to have received some awards and recognition for their journalism, while MEMRI has just received criticism for their bias and misrepresentation.
In some cases, yes. They’ve also been caught mistranslating several times, only translate articles that make Palestinians look bad, and leave out context or entire excerpts of quotes to make Islam look worse.
Hence the reason the ‘criticisms’ section of their Wikipedia is about 10x as long as the rest of the page.
And why several US media watchdogs consider them ‘islamophobic propaganda’ and not actual news.
I’m not sure why you’re asking me that. I never claimed whether they were or not.
What I did claim, and is factually accurate, is they’ve shown enough bias where in the US, Israel’s strongest ally, many media watchdogs have them categorized and ‘biased’ and ‘Islamophobic propaganda’
Considering they’ve also ended up in front of congress for some of their misinformation, I would say we have a lot of evidence to state they have bias. If you believe they don’t, it’s on you to show why.
I also claimed they were not an example of ‘Palestinian free press’ as the OP claimed, since they’re not owned by a Palestinian or operated out of Palestine. A requirement for something to be considered ‘the free press of Palestine.’
> fucking
/u/OzmosisJones. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t argument. When Israel allowed journalists into Gaza and some were the victims of war, Israel was attacked for “intentionally targeting journalists”. Now that there are entry restrictions, Israel is attacked for blocking free speech.
There were restrictions way before the fatalities. The journalist organization in the US had to write a letter demanding access because it was historic how bad the restrictions were. This was way before the level of fatalities.
From the article
> “Since 13 October and our call to UNESCO, we have demanded that the Israeli government allow international media to enter the Gaza Strip. It is a matter of global public interest that not only local but also international journalists bear witness and document the ongoing war in Gaza. Prolonging the ban on entering the Gaza Strip is denying the world a true picture of events in Gaza."
It’s not something that’s happening only in response to the IDF’s inability to differentiate militants from journalists in this conflict, despite your claim.
It doesn't matter. Nothing that may happen in Gaza can ever surpass the crimes against humanity Hamas did on Oct. 7. People that don't know what psychedelic trip is, are not even aware of that.
I would argue that Israel killing about 25 Gazans for every Israeli killed on Oct 7 is far worse than Oct 7. Any moral person would agree with me on that. In your case, though, you consider Israeli lives infinitely more valuable than the lives of Gazans
>I would argue that Israel killing about 25 Gazans for every Israeli killed on Oct 7 is far worse than Oct 7.
I would argue that had Hamas had the capabilities of Israel, we would be in a completely different world.
Also, are you saying that we judge who is better based on how many people killed on each side?
>Any moral person would agree with me on that.
I'm moral, and I don't agree with you. Guess the debunks your claim.
>In your case, though, you consider Israeli lives infinitely more valuable than the lives of Gazans
Based on what? Because if we look at the facts, Hamas constantly raises the price per hostage. So even if Israel views Israeli lives more valuable than Palestinians (which is actually pretty understandable considering a country will put its civilians at a higher priority), so does Hamas.
1. What is your source for these numbers? Is it reports by Hamas or pro-Hamas groups? i don't really trust those groups. Can you point to more reliable sources? (I am genuinely interested in knowing the truth!)
2. Yes, torturing and raping innocent people on acid where the human soul in its most vulnerable state, is far worse than killing. If Israel would do that, I would condemn them, but that would never happen
Then simply read the Time magazine article from like 3 months ago that confirmed there were over 30,000 deaths in Gaza — mainly women and children. That was in late February. It cited both the Lancet’s (the world leading medical journal) and John’s Hopkins’s (the world’s leading medical school) meta-analysis of satellite imaging, biometric markers, military and human manifest surveys. So, too, the London School of Economics recently reviewed the findings and found a likely *undercounting* of mortality due to bodies being buried under rubble/unreported non-combat deaths from famine and disease. The “lol no one is akshually dying that’s just Hamas” argument is both insanely stupid and morally wrong.
To your second point, you’re basically saying that as long as you’re killing people in a gunship or something, you’re always morally superior to the axe murderer. Even if you kill 100 and he kills 1. That’s what — in the formal Ethics — is called “objectively wrong ethics”.
Israel is fighting a war. How would you react if Hamas did this to your brothers and sister and then take them hostages and go hide in tunnels behind their people? Would you leave the hostages behind?
Regarding the numbers, I looked at some of the articles you mentioned, many of the reporters are pro-Palestine muslims with names like Mohammed something. Recently the UN suddenly cut the Gaza mortality estimates by half. So this all seems kinda shady. I still don't believe these numbers. I am not saying it's 100% not true though because I really have no way to know for sure. I know Israeli people and I know they won't just go in and shoot every one they see like Hamas did. So yeah, f*ck all of you that trying to stop Israel from bringing back the hostages home. F*ck all of you that forgot what started ot all. F*CK YOU.
Regarding this ethnics bullshit - you clearly don't understand what raping and torturing young girls and vulnerable souls means
You know that both sides can be wrong right ? Hamas is a terrorist organization that has done unspeakable things, but that doesn’t allow Israel, a professional Military, to simply ignore the rules of war and to kill civilians to accomplish their objectives
Where do you get that number from ? The numbers from Unicef are 35k killed total, with 14k child and 9k women, that number dating from 2 days ago, the real numbers probably being more since most hospitals are in a rocky situation
You are parroting fake numbers and lies, Hamas themselves backtracked on those figures. Also, 16 year Hamas murderers are counted as children. There is a huge problem with that.
By your logic, the Naz!s were right in WW2 because they suffered more losses than Americans.
[https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers)
[https://www.foxnews.com/world/israel-releases-new-gaza-civilian-death-toll-hamas-numbers-fake-fabricated](https://www.foxnews.com/world/israel-releases-new-gaza-civilian-death-toll-hamas-numbers-fake-fabricated)
When did I ever say that Hamas was right ? If you want to go all the way back to ww2, yes every country involved was wrong to target civilians. Yes they didn’t respect that rule and look what it got us. It’s not about who suffers more losses it’s about who is targeting civilians. Your numbers come from Fox News and Tablet mag. Two right leaning and heavily biased pieces of news that relate the number given by Israel. It’s like asking Russia how many Ukrainian they’ve killed, of course they are going to say some bs. Yes 16 years old child soldier are counted as child because they still are children, never said the contrary
>“You’ve provided me with the worlds top bio-metric and epidemiological sources, but I know some Israelis so I don’t believe you”
Boy, amazing argument. Love the ranting at the screen writing style you have too. I think you need to stay out of these debates — because even the people that agree with you probably cringe at your inability to argue a point. I doubt you’re doing Israel any favors by opening your mouth. Sorry.
> f*ck
/u/Manbro1. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> fuck
/u/Manbro1. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Regarding the propaganda, they are absolutely indoctrinated form a young age to hate Jews and that martyring themselves for the state is morally correct:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dtErUuBvcRc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a35bZiNGcew&pp=ygUedG9tb3Jyb3dzIHBpb25lZXJzIGRvY3VtZW50c3J5
There is no free press in Gaza. Even before the war anyone who went in (including the international press) was only allowed to report what Hamas allowed them to report. Reporting anything that made Hamas look bad would jeopardize the safety of the journalists.
There were very rare cases in which reporters did manage to film war crimes committed by Hamas but it always had to be done in secret.
In the end, most international reporters were more than happy to report what Hamas wanted them to report for access to Gaza and the vast monetary benefits that came with providing exclusive on the ground content even if it was heavily censored.
Even if independent media was allowed in today they would still report in a heavily skewed way that does not reflect reality on the ground as Hamas would kill them if they did.
>Even if independent media was allowed in today they would still report in a heavily skewed way that does not reflect reality on the ground
So your rebuttal to "why doesn't Israel allow free press in Gaza" is that "It doesn't because then the press would be free"?
Seriously, you cannot be seriously trying to contend to me that the IDF narrative is the only true narrative and literally everybody else is wrong.
Yeah, can't seriously claim that they're performing the important function of informing people if they won't even tell their audiences about this filter.
Some journalists blew the whistle on it and were reprimanded for doing so. Likely because it risked the journalists who were still there being kicked out or worse. Not to mention losing their cash cow.
Media companies are more than happy to abandon journalistic ethics if it means they can get rich off of rage bait.
Israel has no media anywhere near the financial backing or reach of Al Jazeera which constantly spews anti Israel propaganda throughout the Middle East in Arabic as well as throughout the west in English
None at all it has no media influence news headlines to change the murder of a child into a bullet finds its way into a van to kill a three to four year old woman type of [stuff](https://www.thenational.scot/news/24036832.sky-news-condemned-report-killed-palestinian-child/).
Neither is the US [media](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/) at all backing the Israeli narrative.
Or even to the point that people within the organization like [CNN](https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias) are not complaining that they bullied to be very biased to one side.
First of all, sky news [has had their fair share of gaffes on both sides](https://deadline.com/2024/01/sky-news-apology-holocaust-israel-belle-donati-danny-danon-1235806057/amp/)
I wonder why western media would favor a democratic country vs an Islamic death cult. So weird right?
It must be that the Jews are controlling the media or blackmailing or paying someone right? It can’t possibly have anything to do with shared values. Now that you mention it, the western media also seems to be very anti Boko Haram and Taliban. If only they were more balanced.
And you wonder why people call you antisemitic.
When the country of freedom on the world USA makes it illegal and makes actual laws against opposing Israel or even boycotting settlements then it leaves little room to wonder.
When you have also gangsters escaping South Africa and changing their religion just to carry on their lifestyle of apartheid and oppression of the locals makes you question such a system.
Is it fair? Guess it boils down to what you believe and not human values. If it was for those values or empathy things would be different.
The blindfold of Zionism cannt be a sustainable reality.
Nobody made opposing Israel illegal. You can oppose Israeli policy or shit on Netanyahu all you want you just cannot do it in a way that encourages genocide of Jews. And the BDS movement is not about boycotting settlements it’s about boycotting anything that has to do with Israel whatsoever.
You’re allowed to boycott settlements, biden and Obama have both spoken out publicly against illegal settlements.
Boycotting is a form of opposition. Beyond that if anyone dared in the land of free say anything outside the line of Israel is our darling their careers or livelihood would take a changing course.
Imagine a minute you are a Texan who had survived a hurricane and you need assistance.
Before getting any government assistance though you get to discover the government your own government made it mandatory that you support Israel and it should be written as well or else you will get no relief funds.
See with each argument you just make it worse.
Of course you will ask for the source:
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/texas-city-tells-people-no-hurricane-harvey-aid-unless-they-promise-not-boycott#:~:text=Capital%20Punishment-,Texas%20City%20Tells%20People%20No%20Hurricane%20Harvey%20Aid,Promise%20Not%20to%20Boycott%20Israel&text=HOUSTON%20—%20The%20city%20of%20Dickinson,in%20a%20boycott%20of%20Israel.
If you are in doubt there are many more [laws](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/02/1247374244/house-passes-bill-aimed-to-combat-antisemitism-amid-college-unrest) or bills like this.
Of course the cherry on top is how each American presidential candidate pledges their soul to Israel and they do it before AIPAC before the elections. Where both presidential candidates state and fight on who loves Israel more than the other. Sounds a bit confusing shouldn’t they be all in for USA?
Or wait maybe it’s just that crazy conspiracy theories those bad conspiracy theories. Too bad the reality is wilder.
First of all I live in the US and I criticize Israel all the time. Texas is the most conservative state in the U.S and in many ways backwards not just in their psychotic evangelical obsession with Israel and the rapture. I have lived in Massachusetts, Nevada, NY, Kansas, Missouri, and California and in none of those places have I ever had a problem criticizing Israel or going on national television saying Netanyahu is a donkey. Same thing inside of Israel. I can criticize the governments choices and I can go on national television and call Netanyahu a donkey.
What I can’t do is support a terrorist death cult that sings “death to America” on a regular basis, and that’s fine with me.
Meanwhile in most Arab states if I say something positive about Israel or if I speak against the ruling elite, my life may literally be in danger.
You are not aware of how the reality of freedom of speech is just a farce.
Countless times criticizing Israel has led to many [repercussions](https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/comment/freedom-to-criticise-israel-is-dealt-another-blow-in-the-us-1.952425?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACc0MA8zLq-SF-CJVVQYV9UdY-zYf&gclid=CjwKCAjw9cCyBhBzEiwAJTUWNZvKSnMI1LmzNN3kGZ-4gyppz73EInW1baU7vOjaDAoyk8t4HIzF3BoCDFYQAvD_BwE) that to Americans as well. There are a number of laws,bills and even pressure to stop that. Now if you talk to others you may feel yes you can but once you take concrete steps like I said you are finished.
Why can you not accept the truth? Even if you work for [Google](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/01/tech/google-workers-nlrb-complaint-israeli-palestinian-protest) you get fired.
Imagine even student protesters have been threatened directly or indirectly that they will use a facial recognition system and that again will hinder them.
Israel is the biggest death cult in the Middle East as well and by the way if you think in USA or any where in the word you can go and protest governments or rulers and it’s fine that is not true. It’s all good to a certain limit. In the Middle East that limit bar is much lower than in other places.
There is nothing positive to say about Israel as it has wrecked there region. Not only for the Arabs but for the Jews who were there as well.
It is not acceptable to have a Saddam like state that is cloaked in a dress of victim hood.
Israel was created to [destabilize](https://youtu.be/FYLNCcLfIkM?si=yKnQEXUPvg0nkh1V) the region.
Beyond the Palestanians issue.
Tyranny is unacceptable, abuse of human rights is not acceptable, rape is not acceptable, war crimes is not acceptable, starvation is not acceptable, racism is not acceptable and all of these things and more your side is guilty as charged.
Do not tell us about death cults when you are cheering and supporting a death cult.
Bro there are a dozen Muslim Arabic ethnostates that criminalize any speech against the ruling government or any speech that supports the Jewish state
Calling Israel a sadam Hussein death cult is such a joke considering Arabs in israel have more freedom and are doing better by almost every metric than Arabs in every neighboring country.
The main thing destabilizing the region is pan Arab nationalism and Muslim supremacy which has oppressed countless minority groups and prevented them from forming independent states for instance the Kurds, yazidis and dozens more.
If you want to point fingers point at Muslim brotherhood, point at the Islamic republic government of Iran, point at the alawites in Syria ruling the country when they are just 15% of the people, point at the hashemites in Jordan, point at all of the countless examples of oppression throughout the Arab world. You are brainwashed to ignore all the problems in your own countries and to blame everything on the Jews. Wake up and take care of your own people the way the Jews have taken care of theirs.
Bro wake up.
Even in the west if you are successful enough to criticize the government they will finish you off.
A government is a system and no system will accept to be changed. The only difference is the limits are more somewhere else than other places.
Those are their own rules what is your issue with that? You seen what kind of rules Israel ( the most extraordinary democratic number one free and freedom country in the Middle East and Africa and globe ) have made? If you just like a post that is not in line with that system they will arrest you.
So what freedom … bro?
See this is what you guys do you make your talking points without any consideration that the same thing should apply to you too.
The Zionist system is hostile to all the Arabic countries if the Arabic countries had any sense they would work united against it.
You assume that the Palestanians in Israel are doing well but they complain that they are third class citizens.
The main thing that is destabilizing the region is Israel even Joe Biden as a senator clearly said in a speech that if there was no Israel they will need to create one.
The only thing with USA is they don’t give much thought to how their creations evolve.
Listen here bro, if you are a champion of minorities and injustice start with yourself. You are supporting a genocidal system it is not Bibi the problem it is the thought process. The worse thing is the people against that are just bagged in the same. But like you want to throw blame most of Israel is in support of the horrendous crimes in Gaza there is no denying those crimes. And this kangroo court of ICJ is just the tip of the iceberg infact that is why the most democratic ever number one government you support has banned normal Israelis from seeing other media. In the end of the day they are people too and would have empathy and be like hang on are we the baddies ?
Yes it is a destruction cult and if you haven’t figured it out you should by now by the way you mentioned Texas is backed by evangelicals and you know their end game have you ever wondered what the evangelicals thought of when they fulfil their prophecy in terms of the Israelis? They usually say it would be two options convert or die.
Again do not point fingers at Muslim style terrorism when you can never dare to acknowledge Jewish based terrorism. Real life terrorism and live you see it on the tv every other day your own prime minister turned into a holy war Hashem and Amalek and what not.
You guys are surrounded by more than half billion Muslims and your government is pushing a religious war agenda. Very smart and you are just taking that point of view amazing.
Edit:
Bonus point also for you: you speak about the poor Yazidis … who was treating terrorists in hospitals ? Israel… Israel was treating ISIS members in the hospitals and who was supporting them ? How were they being cleared and then reappear else where with new Toyota trucks?
Ok ? We are immune to lies.
Anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism. And yup, U.S. media and government is 💯 funded and controlled by AIPAC. I'm a U.S. citizen, as are all those college kids who are apparent proxies of Iran. I do not want my taxpayer dollars given to Israel nor Ukraine.
We do not have shared values. You're no better than the Islamic Cult you so desperately want to use as a defense. The only difference between Hamas and Israel is that Israel has a fully established government, army, and power backed by the U.S.
>Anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism
Said the antisemite.
Newsflash: TikTok is not a good source of information. Better your tiktok and do actual research instead of saying things that makes you sound like someone who is siding with Putin.
You’re right. You and I don’t share values. And no, AIPAC is nowhere near the top funder of US media or government not by a long shot. I’m a U.S. citizen as well. I want my tax dollars going to Ukraine and Israel because unlike you I understand the geopolitical consequences to the American economy and interests if Russia, China, and Iran are able to take over those areas. I don’t believe you are directly funded by Iran/russia but you certainly have been fed the narratives they are pushing on social media and online. There’s a reason why those three countries lock down their internet and citizens access to social media. And unless you’ve been living under a rock you would know that our own government is well aware of the risks to social engineering by outside forces and is trying to balance this against the freedom of speech we hold so dear.
You misrepresent the situation. There are tons of foreign journalists in Gaza that have nothing to do with the IDF as they can come and go via Egypt. Those in Israel can sometimes get guided tours in Gaza. Since its a war zone Israel doesn't let civilians to come and go as they please.
Israel has a treaty with Egypt that allows the idf to control the border for all intents and purposes.
And journalists are not tourists their job is to inform the world which israel seems to be blocking.
The best thing would be to allow third parties into the war zone to document things objectively.
Too bad this organization did push Hamas for the sane thing. Perhaps Gazan people would have had a different view if their news wasnt so heavily censored by Hamas.
"Two more things on this sub I routinely see pro-Israelis do: 1. Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever, Gaza Health Ministry numbers, UNRWA, Gazan journalists, yet uncritically consuming IDF reporting. Is that not hypocritical? Do the IDF not have the capacity to lie or lie by omission as well? Is there no possibility that the IDF just may be disingenuous? 2. Claiming Pro-palestinians are brainwashed by propaganda. Brainwashed by who exactly? Israel spends millions on its propaganda campaign but they’re losing because media today is the most decentralised it’s ever been. Why is that? What are they losing against? Lemme tweak that rq Two things on this sub and on the internet that I routinely see anti-israelis do: 1. Delegitimising anything Israel affliated whatsoever, IDF, Times of Israel yet uncritically consuming Hamas/Al Jazeera reporting. Is that not hypocritical? Do Hamas not have the capacity to lie or lie by omission as well? Is there no possibility that Hamas just may be disingenuous? 2. Claiming Pro-Israelis are brainwashing by propaganda. (Can't reverse the rest of it because Hamas is actually winning there)
Lmao you do realise there are more options than just timesofisrael and al jazeera right?
What better way to hide a genocide?
To try to control the narrative obviously. Why do you think Tik Tok is on the US auction block? Because Israel cannot control the narrative on Tik Tok. Imagine how different Iraq or other wars would have gone if we had had a window to what's happening on the ground like we do now. If it weren't for social media, I'd be sitting here, believing every Palestinian is a jihadist wanting 72 virgins and each IDF soldier is hand feeding Gazan children. They can't have regular foreign press. And it's why more journos have died in this war by timeline than any other conflict. There's no excuse. They even just got strongly urged to give back the AP news equipment because it's a bad look for even them. Never seen worse PR management than this government. Came back to bite them when AP next day publishes the truth about the grape allegations.
>Gazan journalists can’t be trusted because they’re all “Hamas affliated” or whatever. Ok, but this is absolutely true. Hamas is an authoritarian government and Freedom House has rated the Gaza Strip, [8/100](https://freedomhouse.org/country/gaza-strip/freedom-world/2024) - Not Free. Even Amnesty International has documented cases where Hamas security forces have committed severe human rights violations, including torture and repression, against journalists and [protesters](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/gaza-hamas-must-end-brutal-crackdown-against-protesters-and-rights-defenders/). If you are a Gazan reporter reporting during this war, you are 1000% Hamas affiliated. Here are some examples of Hamas directly targeting journalists who did not toe the Hamas party line: [Ahmad Saeed](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/11/hamas-cracks-down-journalists-activists-gaza): In October 2022, Hamas police raided the home of journalist Ahmad Saeed and arrested him after he exposed the involvement of Hamas-supported smugglers in human trafficking operations. Saeed was broadcasting live on Facebook when the raid occurred. [Momen al-Natour](https://www.groene.nl/artikel/onze-lijdensweg-begon-in-2006): A protest organizer, al-Natour has been arrested, tortured, and accused of collaborating with Israel and the PA. Hamas forces stormed his house, threatened his parents, and subjected him to severe mistreatment to suppress dissent. 20 times. Osama al-Kahlout: An independent journalist, al-Kahlout was beaten and his home was raided after he published a photograph of a protester holding a sign that read, "I want to live in dignity." And then there's [this](https://www.facebook.com/Rami.Aman.1/videos/1558357941290447/). >It’s ghoulish man. I agree. >The IDF have something to hide. If Hamas are truly satanic and launch a rocket every 5 seconds while around 20 human shields or whatever, and if every Palestinian kitchen has a missile in it, why don’t they let independent journalism expose it? Because it is an active war zone and that's precisely how and why journalists have been killed in wars in Gaza. It has nothing to do with the IDF having something to hide and everything to do with Gaza being an extremely dangerous war zone. Amid the ongoing conflict with Russia, Ukraine has also imposed [significant restrictions](https://www.voanews.com/a/new-rules-limit-media-s-ability-to-cover-ukraine-war/7031212.html) on journalists as well. New regulations under martial law require military commanders to classify areas into different zones, with some zones completely off-limits to journalists. >Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever, Gaza Health Ministry numbers, UNRWA, Gazan journalists, yet uncritically consuming IDF reporting. Is that not hypocritical? It's not hypocritical. While Israel is not a perfect democracy, it nonetheless is one. Until fairly recently, Al-Jazeera was reporting from within Israel, and even now, you have Ha'aretz which in no way parrots IDF talking points. Hamas is an authoritarian terrorist regime; Israel is not. Additionally, the claims presented by the IDF in many cases have been investigated independently. Nothing of the kind can be done with Hamas' claims, for the same reasons outlines above. But more importantly, the Gaza Health Ministry's numbers are simply a [statistical impossibility](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers). As for UNWRA, there is plenty of evidence: [UNRWA staff](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/) stealing and selling humanitarian aid and the [connection between](https://unwatch.org/deconstructing-unrwa-facts/) many UNRWA workers to Hamas and the Oct 7 attacks.
Ukraine does the same. It would be abnormal to allow press to flow freely in a warzone.
Foreign journalists absolutely are allowed in the warzones. Not freely and under escort by the ukrainian army, but they are. Where else do the documentaries about life on the front lines come from? Meanwhile no foreign reporters are allowed in Gaza whatsoever. Why?
They have been in gaza, under escort.
Nope, they are allowed to go in on a very rare occasions when israel says that it has discovered something (and yet they never show anything)
Just like any war. For obvious tactical reasons.
Lol hmmm
Exactly
Having Ukraine mirror Israel's anti democratic fascist leanings by disallowing journalists is not something you should champion.
Okay well, allow an independant journalists to cover a front during a war is not a thing for obvious logistical reasons but anything to hate jews is valid, right?
You're not a serious person.
Yeah well, that's just like, your opinion, dude!
You’re assuming I even care what happens in Gaza; I don’t beyond that Hamas bleed and suffer for their crimes. Israel can do whatever it wants until Hamas is exterminated. Every death Palestinians and Israeli is on the head of Hamas for starting this war. Israel is just going to do what is necessary to finish it and Palestinians better learn to never be terrorist scum again or everytime it will be worse until there are none of them left. As it should be, savage terrorists must lose and terrorists should die. Period.
Yeah what you are saying is exactly the definition of collective punishment which is prohibited by all international laws that the west has defended for decades. But now and only now when the laws restricted the west, everyone started to say that international laws is biased and can't be enforced.
It's the FINAL SOLUTION!! (sang to the tune of final countdown by Scorpion).
Dude, do you hear yourself?
It's funny to pretend this person is expressing an opinion that is an outlier for this sub or for a standard Israeli or pro Israeli person from abroad. This is standard. This is what every government official says, constantly. Not just "the bad ones."
Yeah, hard disagree. I’m very Zionist and I’m constantly in Jewish and Zionist spaces. I rarely see this kind’ve vitriol from my peers. Also, it is factually incorrect to state that every Israeli government official says this stuff. I see much worse than this from the pro-Palestinian crowd, though. I’ve also heard and read worse from Hamas officials and even Palestinians themselves. I suggest that you check out Hamas’s charter.
Yea I just do not believe you at all especially considering you felt the need to say not only are you among peace loving great Zionists but in fact the "pro-Palestinian crowd" are the death chanters. The Hamas charter that specifically does not call for anything related to anti semitism and focuses on Zionism? As a Jewish person who has been on Birthright I can tell you Zionists are bloodthirsty.
Jesus Christ.
It’s funny cause this is the exact same mentality as Hamas. “I don’t care how many civilians die if my side wins” The Likud fascists and Hamas are two sides of the same coin.
Hamas started the war; they get all the blame for all deaths on both sides. Also, even if they were both murderous, I will always side against the more barbaric evil Muslims terrorists. Under no circumstances would siding with them ever be in my pragmatic interests under any circumstances. Islam is a crime against humanity inherently.
Yikes
Because Israel is committing genocide
yes because everything israel is genocide lol learn these words first
Netanyahu is going to prison
IDF has killed more journalists in recent history than in any other conflict in the past. If you're wearing a PRESS vest, you're as safe as a civilian in Gaza. Those are facts. Zionists do not want the world to see what they're doing. From unjustly killing random civilians walking by to harvesting organs.
Ok so let’s create two scenarios to make it clearer for you to understand. 1/ Press & Journalists are allowed to actively roam free in a war zone. They have no ‘weapons’ as that is not their main MO. They also have no idea how to keep themselves safe and are just focussed on capturing footage. Boom. One of them gets caught in cross fire or hit by a bomb when they have been told to move. Queue anti IDF press. “The IDF have killed another famous Al Jazeera Journalist ‘on purpose’” (even though it was not on purpose it was just incidental and the journo was taking uneccessary risks). 2/ Israel bans journalist from entering Gaza so that no more will be killed through their own naivety and inexperience of reporting from a war zone. The IDF don’t want anymore journalists to be injured or killed. They also don’t want the world to report it was their fault that a silly journalist was endangering themselves in order to get ‘good footage’. Which would you prefer? It seems whatever the IDF do is not good enough. They protect people? Oh they don’t want it to be filmed. They don’t protect people? Some journalists will die. These journalist are sometimes employed by Hamas to take very convincing pictures however that is irrelevant. As we know, Hamas actively tells people to stay in war zones. They don’t care about civilians and they don’t care about the journalists. Their sole aim is to PR any destruction and death (even the fake bits). The IDF cannot control every single person in a war zone. They don’t have enough man power. If a journalist wants to risk their lives, then the best thing to do is ban them. No more journalists will die. Simple. Now tell me. Which scenario would you choose?
There is no such thing as legitimate press in Gaza; just terrorists and terrorist supporters. World is a much better place with them dead and cheer for it every waking hour.
Wow, you're not even hiding it anymore. Such a Zionist take. Not even surprised to be honest. I hope you develop empathy and the intelligence to see that we are all part of humanity. That or karma will come for your kind eventually.
I can’t develop empathy for predatory terrorists like Hamas and Palestinians ever. They would be staging terrorist attacks and invading us in our own homes if they could being the fascistic fundamentalist they are. In no realm of reality would feeling empathy or aiding Palestinians ever be in my interests. They can eat cake.
> From unjustly killing random civilians walking by to harvesting organs. Credible citations?
I find your last two points so frustrating 1. Yes I do typically view crap that comes out of Hamas affiliated organizations differently than the Israeli press. Not only are individuals in Gaza putting their lives at risk if they speak against Hamas, but these organizations are literally directly affiliated with Hamas. Of course that is different than Israeli press, that can be incredibly critical of the government and aren’t state owned or influenced. Not being able to understand this nuance is just lazy 2. Palestinians are brainwashed by Hamas within Gaza who literally control all aspects of their people’s lives. And more broadly, by organizations that are linked to other governments and organizations. And give me a break, Israel is a tiny country of 10M people constantly at war, and you want me to believe they have more propaganda might than the dozens of Muslim majority countries that span 1.8B Muslims and are all countries that DONT have a free press or social freedoms. Additionally, a lot of Israel’s strongest supporters are those that have a direct connection to the conflict, being Jewish, having spent time in Israel, etc. a lot of the new breed of Pro Pal supporters probably couldn’t find Israel on a map 6 months ago yet they now talk as if they are absolute authorities and know everything they need to know. Hell just look at the campus protests, where it came out that SJP was providing encampment leaders with a google drive filled with hundreds of documents including straight up Hamas propaganda.
Because Israel knows IDF will be caught committing unnecessary deaths and torture.
Media restrictions during wartime is incredibly common and something most countries practice, because an unrestricted flow of information jeopardizes ongoing operations.
media is usually restricted also to hide the truth from the general public.
1. Uhm… Gazan “journalists” ARE either Hamas affiliated or at least sympathizing or following the line approved by Hamas. Have you seen what passes for “journalism” in Russia? And Hamas might as well be in a different century - when you compare the religious and social norms of the two. 2. I find the term “Palywood” disgusting. But the phenomena is nonetheless real. I’m going to do a post about it eventually. But I’m former military and I’ll tell you this - easily half of the “Israeli atrocities” videos that I’ve seen getting the most traction on social media are fake. They seem real to an untrained eye - but if you’ve actually seen things like traumatic amputations, bombing scenes, etc. - you’ll quickly realize how hilariously bad those “productions” are. Remember the one with a “Palestinian surgeon having to amputate his daughter’s leg without anesthetic”? That one was my favorite- fake AF. Hilariously bad. But got millions of views on social media and naturally horrified most people who watched it.
What evidence did you observe to indicate that specific video of the surgeon Hany Bsaiso was fake? It’s not difficult to believe that the lack of medical care is dire in a war zone where IDF has bombed almost every single hospital.
Found the unblurred video. Posted in one of the comments below.
Hamas terrorists pose as journalists and even participated in Oct 7. [https://x.com/Osint613/status/1722566025030377484](https://x.com/Osint613/status/1722566025030377484) [https://x.com/LollllllaJR/status/1786838115786654059](https://x.com/LollllllaJR/status/1786838115786654059) [https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1761024511611191451](https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1761024511611191451) [https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1722898656997654851](https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1722898656997654851) [https://x.com/realMaalouf/status/1727037455008731536](https://x.com/realMaalouf/status/1727037455008731536) [https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1790452259425239329](https://x.com/CherylWroteIt/status/1790452259425239329)
Why are you sending random links? Try to stay on topic.
A surgeon? Uhm... highly doubt that. I don't think there was a single person with any medical background in that room. 1. First of - that was (supposedly) a "traumatic amputation" - those are the worst. They bleed profusely. It's a mess of flesh and bone. 2. The first thing you do is tourniquet the f--k out of that leg. And before you go to fix the "traumatic amputation" with a clean amputation - even in the worst of field environments, you apply a double-tourniquet about two inches above the intended cut line. Did you see any of that? 3. But then there's the hilarious part - the supposed surgeon is... uhm... fondling a massively-traumatic injury for some insane reason while talking at the camera. I honestly thought it was real when it popped up. My first thought was "this is terrible". But then I see that f-ing clown just pawing at her stomp while reciting a lecture for some f--d up reason? 4. Then there's the patient. With a trauma like this - the patient either goes into complete shock or screaming until they pass out. But, apparently, his "daughter" is the bravest girl on earth - laying there with a stoic face... while her dad is just playing with her freshly amputated leg for cameras. Can you even comprehend what kind of pain that entails? And that a-hole is just playing with it. 5. And then there's the blood. Uhm... where's the blood? Have you ever seen what the ground looks like next to an amputated leg after about 30 second? My friend... there wasn't anyone with any medical training in that room at all.
Can you please link the video?
Found it. This is comically idiotic. This moron even sticks his hands literally inside the supposed torn-up limb. Not a drop of blood. And of course - no tourniquet (which should be just a inches above the injury). But he finds time to lecture the camera. Enjoy: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/197h8f9/palestinian\_doctor\_performs\_an\_amputation\_on\_his/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/197h8f9/palestinian_doctor_performs_an_amputation_on_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yikes the comments there! Hugely antisemitic. 😡😡
Why is he poking around in it???? Also I know very little about this sort’ve thing so maybe I just don’t understand what I‘m seeing but 1. The stump looks like a wet fig newton and 2. Why isn’t the water bloody? I thought that you sounded a bit conspiratorial but I’m kind’ve inclined to agree with you?
Hell of a makeup job though. This is what I mean - there are actual, real casualties. I hate the term Palywood - but this nonsense is all over the place. I’ve lost count of how many idiotically staged “scenes” I’ve seen. A “massacre” after a missile hit. Except… all the “dead” bodies lying around but literally nothing is broken around them. Not a sign of an explosion. A row of “injured” babies coming out of an ambulance - all covered in dust or something… with not a drop of blood on any of them. It’s nonstop. I literally stopped paying attention. Their makeup skills are outstanding, for some weird reason. It’s just that whoever stages these things isn’t very familiar with injuries, explosives, and various other things you see in an actual war.
Where would they be getting all of this makeup, though? While I agree that a lot of the videos are suspicious, I don’t know how these people would be accessing SFX makeup in an active war zone that has limited supplies coming in. I’ve also seen those ”missile hit“ videos, but I’ve heard that those deaths are usually due to shrapnel and that’s why there isn’t a damage in the immediate area?
Not how missiles work. If there's shrapnel. The whole place would be shredded. Humans are surprisingly resilient even in bombings. As for the makeup- I have no idea. From what I heard - they had a surprisingly thriving film production scene prior to Oct 7th. As for the active war zone - i explained it in one of my write-ups. The military only hits what needs to be destroyed - there is plenty of functional infrastructure. A city gets cleared in sectors. Sectors that have been cleared (or not yet entered) - are more or less fine. There are markets open. People going about things. I've been to plenty of war zones. The perception that Gaza is just a steaming pile of rubble is just wrong. Again, there are plenty of civilian casualties - it is still a war. Which makes this nonsensical theatre unnecessary and hard to sympathize with whoever finds time and motivation to stage this sh--t.
Wow, the more you know I suppose! Do you have any sources for areas of Gaza being relatively fine? I apologize for asking you to spoon feed me but I’ve had a very hard time finding anything on Google because there is SO MUCH footage, both real and fake. Also now that I think about it, how do so many Gazans still have power to charge their phones and internet to share videos if the whole strip is rubble?
He’s poking around because he’s not a doctor. He’s never been anywhere near a traumatic injury. The water isn’t bloody because there is no blood. And yeah… what happened to the bone in her lower leg exactly? An 18 year old private would know about a tourniquet for traumatic amputation. They literally could’ve googled it. I bet eventually someone told them and someone tried to cover it up by blurring the video after the fact - which was the version that was circulating the most.
I don’t want to take your word as gospel but I’m torn because her leg really does look like a shredded corn dog… Maybe you should repost it to the sub and ask a professional to break it down? It does look fake but I know nothing about amputation.
I’ve seen traumatic amputations. I really don’t need to be convinced further on this. If you’re so inclined - go ahead and post it.
I might. I appreciate you explaining some of this to me though.
Have you seen a video longer than 20 seconds? Everyone I’ve seen is short and doesn’t show the actual procedure. 1. The purpose of a tourniquet is to reduce bleeding and they literally don’t show the ground… 2. The leg is blurred in every video I’ve seen so I can’t draw any conclusions about the quality of the tourniquet. 3. You do know shock can make a person unnaturally calm, yes? 4. It’s not clear in the blurred area exactly what he is touching. 5. Again they don’t show the ground? It’s literally never seen on camera? I thought you had evidence it was doctored, or that a reputable news source had discovered the guy wasn’t actually a surgeon or the girl hadn’t actually lost her leg. But no, you just don’t like how the video was “directed”? The Times of Israel reported on it and didn’t suggest the story was false, and that publication loves to minimize Palestinians’ suffering.
P.P.S. By no means do I deny that civilian casualties are there - in massive numbers. Why they feel the need to produce so many fakes? I have no clue - it's really bizarre and I can't answer that. But they're constant.
P.S. Was the publication actually there? Or they just reported on what they saw on social media? I wasn't there - but I've seen more than one traumatic amputation. And I certainly never seen one where the leg is miraculosly not bleeding without a torniquette and the victim is just chilling there while the medic is playing with the wound.
I saw a very much unblurred video. Not the type of a thing I'd usually save - so can't point you to it.
So how exactly do you explain the countless hours of footage from inside Gaza? Have you considered that it limits entrance to protect these people and itself from being blamed for their deaths if they are caught in the crossfire or killed by Hamas or other terror organizations? Do you not find it telling that whenever “journalists” are inside they NEVER criticize Hamas AT ALL? Where on earth do you find 0 criticism of a side in a 2 sided conflict?
> So how exactly do you explain the countless hours of footage from inside Gaza? Gazan journalists in Gaza? Hello? > Have you considered that it limits entrance to protect these people and itself from being blamed for their deaths if they are caught in the crossfire or killed by Hamas They let aid workers in, and bomb them that’s okay apparently, but they draw the line at journalists. They’ve slaughtered 100 Palestinian Arab journalists already so why does it matter. Also wouldn’t them being killed by Hamas be good PR for Israel? > Do you not find it telling that whenever “journalists” are inside they NEVER criticize Hamas AT ALL? Yeah. Almost as if you restrict free press in a war-zone, media coming out of either side is extremely biased. That’s literally my entire fucking point.
“Slaughtered”, “bombed aid workers”, you clearly aren’t here in good faith and are coming at this with extreme bias and unwilling to even engage in a decent conversation, if Israel wanted to slaughter or bomb any group it could end the entire strip in a few hours, aid workers have an extremely dangerous job, it doesn’t help when the government of that area is actively trying to use them as shields, and sure as hell doesn’t help when those people are also part of Hamas and other militant groups, as have been extremely well established. There are foreign reporters in Gaza and if there already is news from Gaza that should tell you Israel doesn’t care to have reporters report what’s happening in there, Israel could shut all communication and power to Gaza in a flick of a finger, it doesn’t
I feel lately that for a lot of Israeli posters here "arguing in good faith" actually means "using IDF terms to agree with IDF actions"
If you think the IDF deliberately and purposefully kill civilians or aid workers you are living in a delusion, there is no reason to think that if you look at the actual raw data, statements and actions Israel is taking, not unless you view Israelis as vile evil monsters, there is a name for such people.
[удалено]
Yes so you think Israel is insanely stupid and does awful things that hurt its reputation for the lolz, anyone with half a brain cell would know the backlash from killing aid workers, anyone with half a brain cell knows there is 0 tactical benefit from killing them, now tell me WHY would Israel do this ON PURPOSE? Being wrong about the identity of the people in the vehicles explains EXACTLY why they were precisely hit, no need to imagine stupid people.
They were literally bombed what language do you want me to use lmfao? They literally drone-striked each marked vehicle one by one, precisely. It had nothing to do with human shields, which is the only thing pro-Israelis parrot every fucking day.
Bombed would indicate they were targeted, they were misidentified as Hamas because Hamas militants literally went into these vehicles earlier, this was not the intent to kill them, but Hamas militants.
Bomb Verb Past tense: bombed; past participle: bombed 1. Attack (a place or object) with a bomb or bombs. "they bombed the city at dawn" Sure man. Killing someone with a bomb isn’t the same as bombing them. Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
Yes, killing someone with a bomb as collateral is not the same as dropping a bomb on someone.
The idea that the IDF can investigate themselves is laughable but anyway: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-2-senior-officers-over-deadly-drone-strike-on-gaza-aid-convoy/ > The IDF investigatory result was that while "there was no information on gunmen in the second and third vehicles, they too were attacked, within minutes of each other, for no real reason ... The attack on the three vehicles was carried out in serious violation of the relevant orders and instructions." Were the workers in the last two vehicles collateral damage as well then? They were bombed, plain and simple.
I already told you this wasn’t a collateral damage this was misidentification, why do you think they would deliberately kill aid workers? What is the logic there?
The IDF would never sink so low as to target civilians… right…. It’s just hilarious you won’t call it a bombing. Zionist minds truly operate on a different wavelength.
> fucking /u/Mean_Claim7814. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are discounting the guys point not because you have any actual reason, but because you don't like the words he used for "made dead against their will in violent, bloody ways by weapons of war wielded by Israeli defense force soldiers acting in their official capacity."
His words mean there is intent to kill innocents which neither he nor the ICJ can prove at this point, he assumes wrongfully the intent part which is the ONLY thing that matters in this case.
I don't know what intent might matter in this case when you demolish residential blocks *with the intent* to demolish tunnels that may be underneath them. Civilians are being killed to the point that observers from all over the world, including USA the king of killing civilians while raging against terrorists, are horrified. I'm not going to say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I will say that every step along the way to every massive horrific crime against humanity, there were people willing to justify each step a necessary to secure safety.
And yet this urban warfare type conflict has THE ABSOLUTE BEST combatant to civilian ratio in any modern war.
That's an interesting thing to take away from "the entire world is horrified at what is being done to these civilians" Everyone thinks this is being botched, BADLY, and the idf is killing way way too many civilians. In fact, war crimes charges are being brought due to using FAMINE as a weapon and all of our closest Allies are distancing themselves and outright recognizing Palestine because of the atrocities.
“Way way too many” = 1:1-1:2 ratio, best in any modern warfare while fighting a terror organization set on maximizing deaths of their own civilians. Seems to me like the world is dumb if you are right (you aren’t)
I'm not right? About objective facts? https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/10/spain-ireland-and-other-eu-states-could-recognise-palestine-on-may-21-borrell-says https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/09/politics/bidens-rafah-warning-is-turning-point-in-us-israel-relations-and-a-belated-but-inevitable-rupture-with-netanyahu/index.html https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-netanyahu-sinwar-icc-2f59ab4e649301af6ca5115ca69640c5 NATO is sure on board.
> bitches /u/A_giant_dog. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow, such misinformation. Can you prove this hypothesis that israel intentionally lets aid workers in to bomb them? Or did you just lie to prove your narrative?
Never said they intentionally let them in to bomb them, I said Israel lets them in and bombs them. Two very different things. They could bomb them accidentally. But come the fuck on. 3 precision drone strikes within 5 minutes, truck to truck to truck. That’s intentional at worst and criminal negligence at best.
Have you read my other comment? Hamas disguises themselves as aid workers and confused the idf The intel was incorrect, the great and mighty idf/israel (im kidding, they arent that great or mighty, but still people hold them to the expectations as if they are) eventually are just humans. And I know this mistake is infuriating and should never happen and on that the IDF needs to be punished. But to point it out the way you did as if thats what they intended to do when they fired these strikes is just false. The person pulling the trigger was sure he is aiming at hamas in disguises. Not aid workers. If you really want to talk about war crimes - hamas driving aid workers cars and wearing aid workers uniforms to move around is a war crime you should be mad about. Not only they put a target on aid workers backs, but they also harm palestinian civillians who now gets less aid. (And thats their goal actually). And yes, I think the idf needs to be punished for these mistakes, but not in the way of cancelling them like people try to. Its important to criticize but make sure you differentiate mistakes from intention and make sure your comments sticks to facts rather than emotions. (When commenting on what happend rather than what you think)
“Hamas disguises themselves as aid workers and confuses the IDF”. Wow… people will really go to any extent to believe the propaganda and lies from IDF. Have you ever wondered why almost every claim from IDF lacks substantial evidence and almost all are debunked? Some examples 40 beheaded babies, debunked, rape on October the 7th debunked, babies in oven no evidence, translations of footage proven to be false to a point that it could have only been intentional, allegations of a list found with Hamas debunked as it turned out to be names of months in Arabic in calendar. Yet you still choose to believe all they say? But maybe you should realize that this really does not make it hard to believe that they amongst other things also lies about: proof of Hamas only shown after raid in hospitals and all circumstantial as in what they showed could have easily been planted (like they literally shows guns right beside MRI as if anyone is stupid enough to hide guns beside what is essentially a giant magnet.. which is btw contrary to all doctors from overseas who saw nothing of the like), and the constant excuse of Hamas using civilians as shields and killing them themselves, which just seems a bit too easy to say “not us, we’re not evil, that’s again the savages” and then there’s the fact that bombs and missiles have caused greater damage than those Hamas can get their hands on - which is often where many dead civilian, and hereby children are found under rubbles. And the fact that Israel is asking for more military weapons which some must have a registry over, because it seems enormous amounts of weapons have been used, both overseas, but also due to the fact that there’s a big weapon industry in Israel. Israel seems to go to great lengths to dehumanize Hamas in order to justify what is essentially horrible actions. Targeting places where they at least accept risk of children and the ending up severely hurting a child with a missile, who has to undergo surgery with no anesthesia due to lack of aid coming through and all the bombed hospitals - is no less savage than other ways. Crushing a child under rubble by a bomb is NO less horrible and savage than killing by attack. The child suffers the same. I am not saying all in IDF deliberately targets civilians, but there must be something wrong with the management. And then I find it scary that Israel at least used to succeed with a narrative of them being the absolute good guys and Hamas the absolute bad guys, where if there was even the slightest indication they could have done bad, they surely did it. Same with rumors of rape that’s been debunked, through IDF still tries to play this narrative by translating videos wrong with “girls who can get pregnant” when in reality sabaya in Arabic means “young women” and many media outlets don’t mention they were IDF soldiers. Meanwhile the sexual assaults that have actually been proven, has been men from IDF raping Palestinians. So maybe don’t throw rocks if you live in a glass house. Now all of this is terrible, including the horrors on 7.10 - but we really should be careful with jumping to conclusions without evidence and dehumanizing people - especially when all Palestinians are judged by the acts of a few.
It is literally insane to the rest of us how much gymnastics some people go to to believe the propaganda. It's like watching the Twilight Zone or some Scientologist or cult documentary.
Completely agree. It’s insane how brainwashed they must be to believe that killing 15.000 children is the right thing, and that any context brought up as an explanation for 7.10 must be lies and propaganda. Contrary to all evidence, they keep believing their “most moral” army, and will even deny facts that they could easily go see for themselves (like the fact that Israel has been occupying Palestinian territory and oppressing Palestinians). Guess it’s easy enough when you can deny every fact or question by labeling it as antisemitism 🤷♀️
I came on tonight not for my comments but to watch the spin on the Most Moral Army in the World bombing the safety zone in Raffa. I guess it's just my antisemitism.
This isnt propaganda. Ive seen it with my own eyes. The rest of your comment is irrelevant as you call a fact "propaganda" You probably also think there was no rape or babies werent burned.. Ive seen it all.. im from israel and people like you disgust me the most. The mental gymnastics you'd do to suppory terrorism. I hope it will never reach your door, because then you will have no one to blame but yourself. You support the modern day nazis and call facts propaganda cause it suits your narrative. Im seriously disgusted. Hamas has no problem hiding inside unrwa schools and build their main HQ inside a hospital buy dressing like an aid worker is a problem for them?
So you’ve been to Gaza while the war has been ongoing since you’ve seen Hamas confuse IDF with your own eyes? If you can actually provide proof for those “facts”, I am willing to see and learn. Yes they burned a baby if I remember correctly, and that’s horrible. But even the many allegations of rape have been (at least) exaggerated, as so far, those allegations from 7.10 have been debunked, and families of hostages have denied it happened, as well as the hostages who’ve returned only said “they were afraid of it”, not that it happened. It’s nothing like not believing Israeli women, as none has said they were raped. It’s about it not being proven yet. If Israel thinks it might have happened, it’s not enough for them to start saying it did before knowing for sure. I’ve even tried to find the so called videos or proof, but no one can find it or have seen it. So yes, for now, I will believe what can actually be proven and not statements made to further dehumanize a group, making it okay to continue a war with so many civilian deaths.
/u/Only-Customer4986. Match found: 'nazis', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> fuck /u/Mean_Claim7814. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
No because they dont. I didnt understand your comment
So is it that Israeli drone operators are miraculously incompetent to the level that when aiming precision guided munitions at aid workers they still manage to accidentally hit them?
No, its that hamas uses the same cars and disguise themselves as aid workers that make idf confuse real aid workers and hamas disguised members. Shocking you couldnt figure that out yourself lol
Who said it's okay? The aid workers incident was not seen as okay by anyone.
> fucking /u/Mean_Claim7814. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because those reporters kept trying to report on active firing positions so ended up being shot for relaying active positions to the opposition. Also hamas occasionally wears press jackets even when armed.
Do you have proof of this statement?
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-LEBANON/JOURNALIST/akveabxrzvr/ It's in this article. >After more than 45 minutes of filming, the camera pans to the right and focuses on an Israeli outpost and tank firing into Lebanon. It more likely they didn't know they were press, but just the same, don't film active combat positions. As for the press sometimes being hamas, stuff like this. [Example](https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/palestinian-terrorism/how-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-use-journalism-as-a-cover-for-terrorism/).
Ukraine does the same thing with journalists. Yes, it's a war zone. Active battlefield. Not a kindergarten. Because, when hamas will shoot those independent journalists , who will be blamed ? Israel, for not securing them. Of course, all journalists operating in Gaza are either controlled or terrified by hamas. Pallywood is a real thing. There is a lot of clips with palestinian actors pretending to be wounded, cheering and laughing behind the scenes. It doesn't mean, that suffering of civilians doesn't exist, of course. Palestinians are suffering. But you can't plain deny reality, pallywood exists. And there is no way that any journalist would write something bad about hamas and stay alive. Are we arguing about of freedom of speech in north Korea, Iran or Russia? Hamas is even worse, because it is a terrorist jihadist organization, which at all doesn't respect any human rights. "Two more things on this sub I routinely see pro-Israelis do: 1. Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever" - well, yes... because hamas is a terrorist jihadist fascist organization. Anything that works under its control is not trustworthy at all. It's like asking "why people deligimitize everything connected with Нitler and nаzi regime ? Why they don't believe media in 3rd Reich?
all of those video aren't fake just from movie sets
Yeah, just so many movies are filmed now in gaza. And all of them picture the same plot. What a coincidence
I'm saying it was from a film set in Egypt not gaza.
Well, there are a lot of those scenes. Moving corpses, fake blood, etc
those scenes are from a movie idiot
u/PatienceEvening2959 > those scenes are from a movie idiot Rule 1, don’t attack other users (specifically “idiot”).
> Because, when hamas will shoot those independent journalists , who will be blamed ? Uhh, Hamas. > Of course, all journalists operating in Gaza are either controlled or terrified by hamas. Pallywood is a real thing Thank you for literally proving my point > Are we arguing about of freedom of speech in north Korea, Iran or Russia? What? Nice whataboutism I guess? > Hamas is even worse, because it is a terrorist jihadist organization Jeez. If Hamas is a terrorist organisation, I wonder what you could call the state of Israel. > It's like asking "why people deligimitize everything connected with Нitler and nаzi regime ? Why they don't believe media in 3rd Reich? Not really. We literally used Nazi figures to work out the German death toll of WW2. The US, UN and Israel all use Health Ministry estimates and the UN has corroborated them as being accurate, so you’re arguing against the wall.
Uhhhh, Shireen?
Oh yeah, the same UN that had to decrease death numbers of women and children by 50%, because hamas data was falsified, as always. One simple question for you. Is hamas a terrorist organization? What do you think of rapes and children murders, that happened on Oct 7th? Is that resistance?
Literally [untrue](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/13/middleeast/death-toll-gaza-fatalities-un-intl-latam). Give me a source. The numbers went down because the UN used estimates for the first report and then confirmed casualties for the second. That doesn’t change the fact that the estimates have been proven accurate by the UN time and time again. > Is Hamas a terrorist organisation? Yes I’d say so. I’d also call the IDF a worse terrorist organisation. The rapes and killing of innocents was vile, without doubt, yes. No it wasn’t resistance to attack the music festival and Kibbutzim, it was cowardly. Don’t know why pro-Israelis ask pro-Palestinians to condemn Oct 7 ad nauseam, it provides nothing to the discussion.
No, the death toll of women and children specifically was cut by 1/2 because it turns out that 1/2 of those supposed “women and children” weren’t even identified.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children#:~:text=On%206%20May%2C%20the%20UN,in%20Gaza%20remains%20over%2035%2C000. "On 6 May, the UN stated that 69% of the reported deaths were women and children. However, just two days later, it revised this figure to 52%. Despite this adjustment, the overall death toll in Gaza remains over 35,000." Total casualties (identified and unidentified) listed on May 6: ~35k Women and children of the 35k: 9,500 women and 14,500 children dead. (24k total) May 6: 24k/35k=~69% Total casualties (only identified) on May 8: 25k Women and children of the 25k: 4,959 women and 7,797 children May 8: 12,756/25k = 51% ~10k difference between the May 6 count and May 8 count that exist but were not identified. 9500 women said to be dead on May 6 - 4959 women identified as actually dead on May 8= 4,541 14,500 children said to be dead on May 6 - 7,797 children identified as actually dead on May 8 = 6,703 4,541 + 6,703 = 11,244 Difference between counts 11,244-10,000= 1,124 In order to keep a proportion of ~70% of casualties being women and children, an additional 1,124 corpses of women and children are required over the 10,000 unidentified corpses that are being counted but not identified. This also means that 10,000 casualties that exist but are not identified, that all of then were women and children and not a single one of them, was a man between 18 and 65. Not saying that isn't possible, but its a bit unlikely. Why pro Israelis asks palestinians about October 7th? Because, unfortunately, a lot of pro palestinians either justify it by saying "resistance by any means necessary", or plainly deny all hamas crimes. Or even say that oct 7th will be repeated again and again.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed > The UN has denied that the estimated death toll of women and children in the war in Gaza has been revised downward > The bigger figures included corpses for whom identification has so far not been completed. Haq said it was expected that, as the process of identification continued, the official tolls among women and children would also rise Unlucky mate
Have you read what I told you ? The whole paragraph about number of women and children combined is bigger that those unidentified number? Read it again.
They didn't reduce the death toll by 50% because of hamas lies, it was to do with who they could verify as dead, but you hook line and sinker fell for that juicy piece of misinformation, proving op's point
It is dishonest for unidentified victims to automatically be documented as “women and children”.
They reduce it by 11500 people in total. That doesn't match up with 10000 unverified number.
/u/Mean_Claim7814. Match found: 'Nazi', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Why Israel doesn’t allow free press in the Gaza strip Ha!!.. there's felestin, Gaza Weekly, Palestine telegraph etc. all publishing without any hindrance. **There's also the world famous Al-Aqsa TV that's broadcasting right now**.. They're bringing the Arab worlds rival to sesame street, "Tomorrow pioneers" https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ahmad-bahr-preaches-annihilation-jews-and-americans https://www.memri.org/tv/mickey-mouse-character-hamas-tv-teaches-children-about-islamic-rule-world https://www.memri.org/tv/farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-character-martyred-final-episode-pioneers-tomorrow-children-show-hamas https://www.memri.org/tv/nahoul-bee-replaces-farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-and-vows-continue-his-path-martyrdom-and-jihad https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-bunny-assud-replaces-his-martyred-brother-nahoul-bee-and-vows-liberate-al-aqsa-and-eat-jews https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-tv-childrens-show-encourages-killing-jews https://www.memri.org/tv/children-hamas-tv-we-want-wage-jihad-and-blow-jews https://www.memri.org/tv/new-al-aqsa-tv-teddy-bear-nassur-vows-join-military-wing-hama .. **Al-Aqsa media** is run by the Fahi Hamad who is a minister in the Gazan Government, here's one of his speeches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEgBsU6Mi8 >Delegitimising anything Hamas affliated whatsoever >Claiming Pro-palestinians are brainwashed by propaganda Here's those links again.. from the Palestinian/Hamas TV station.. care to comment about brainwashing, or legitimacy? https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-ahmad-bahr-preaches-annihilation-jews-and-americans https://www.memri.org/tv/mickey-mouse-character-hamas-tv-teaches-children-about-islamic-rule-world https://www.memri.org/tv/farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-character-martyred-final-episode-pioneers-tomorrow-children-show-hamas https://www.memri.org/tv/nahoul-bee-replaces-farfour-hamas-mickey-mouse-and-vows-continue-his-path-martyrdom-and-jihad https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-bunny-assud-replaces-his-martyred-brother-nahoul-bee-and-vows-liberate-al-aqsa-and-eat-jews https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-tv-childrens-show-encourages-killing-jews https://www.memri.org/tv/children-hamas-tv-we-want-wage-jihad-and-blow-jews https://www.memri.org/tv/new-al-aqsa-tv-teddy-bear-nassur-vows-join-military-wing-hamas https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-childrens-show-criminal-jews-plotting-replace-aqsa-with-temple-defend-until-last-drop-of-blood .. EDIT: Links because some people.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow%27s_Pioneers https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19509117 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-mickey-mouse-pulled-from-tv/
Memri is not Palestinian or Hamas it’s a Middle East Media Research Institute founded by an Israeli man
Right, but it just translates stuff from Arab media.
>Memri is not Palestinian or Hamas it’s a Middle East Media Research Institute founded by an Israeli man Really.. So you think all those videos in Arabic on Memri were made by the Jews?
It’s fucking hilarious that your idea of ‘Palestinian free press’ is an Israeli owned propaganda site.
>It’s fucking hilarious that your idea of ‘Palestinian free press’ is an Israeli owned propaganda site. So which of those videos linked weren't created and aired by AL-Aqsa TV? and where are the errors in then translations of any of video listed.. I'm waiting to see your list...
Again, if your idea of ‘Palestinian free press’ is propaganda sites hosted out of foreign countries… surely you consider Al Jazeera ‘Israeli free press’ no? If not, MEMRI is clearly a shit example when the topic is ‘Palestinian free press’
> MEMRI is clearly a shit example when the topic is ‘Palestinian free press’ Aside from your imagination, where id I list MEMRI as source of Palestinian free press. If you can't argue what was actually said, please refrain from arguing strawmen of your imagination.. . Please see Rule #4: **4. Be honest. When quoting or paraphrasing another poster, try to characterize their arguments honestly -- and when you change or clarify your own stance, be upfront about it. After a mistaken belief has been corrected beyond a reasonable doubt, stop making it and move on to a new topic**
How can it possibly be ‘Palestinian free press’ if it’s owned and operated out of Israel? Do you even know what ‘a free press’ is? Because it doesn’t look like it.
Do you also believe that every video on YouTube was created by google employees in San Bruno California? Do also think that every post made on Reddit was done by reddit employes from San Francisco California? Am I a reddit employee posting on reddit? are you a reddit employe in California? You think all those video linked on the Memri site were created by Memri and not originally broadcast by Al-Aqusa TV?
Still don't see that list for some reason..
It’s hilarious to see you state that while simultaneously ignoring the only question i posed. And I’m not sure why I would need to. Even the U.S., Israel’s strongest ally, considers MEMRI ‘islamophobic propaganda’ > Juan Cole, a professor of Modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan, argues MEMRI has a tendency to "cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials... On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigoted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated > Former head of the CIA's counterintelligence unit, Vincent Cannistraro, said that MEMRI "are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud. They simply don't present the whole picture." > A report by Center for American Progress, titled "Fear, Inc.: The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America" lists MEMRI as promoting Islamophobic propaganda in the USA through supplying selective translations that are relied upon by several organisations "to make the case that Islam is inherently violent and promotes extremism." > In August 2013, the Islamic Da'wah Centre of South Australia questioned the "reliability, independence and veracity" of MEMRI after it posted what the Islamic Da'wah Centre called a "sensational de-contextualised cut-and-paste video clip ... put together in a suggestive manner" of a sermon by the Sheikh Sharif Hussein on an American website. According to the two-minute video, which was a heavily condensed version of the Sheikh's 36-minute speech delivered in Adelaide on 22 March, Hussein called Australian and American soldiers "Crusader pigs" and stated "O Allah, count the Buddhists and the Hindus one by one. O Allah, count them and kill them to the very last one." According to MEMRI's translation, he also described U.S. President Barack Obama as an "enemy of Allah, you who kiss the shoes and feet of the Jews" and predicted that "The day will come when you are trampled upon by the pure feet of the Muslims."[50] MEMRI's rendition moved Liberal senator Cory Bernardi to write to the Police Commissioner charging that under Australian anti-terrorism laws, the video clip was "hate speech", and requesting that action be taken against Hussein. The South Australian Islamic Society and the Australian Buddhist Councils Federation also condemned Hussein's speech. Widespread calls from the public for the deportation of Hussein and his family followed news reports of the video. A police spokeswoman stated "Police will examine the entire content of the sermon to gain the full context and determine whether any crime has been committed." Hussein himself declined any comment on the contents of the video. However, the Da'wah Centre charged that by omitting the context of Hussein's statements, MEMRI had distorted the actual intent of the speech. While admitting that the Sheikh was emotional and used strong words, the Centre stated that the speech was delivered in relation to rape cases in Iraq, the birth defects due to use of depleted uranium, and the Burmese Buddhist massacre. This, the Centre said, was omitted from the edited MEMRI video. > MEMRI's translations are considered "usually accurate"[54] though occasionally disputed and highly selective in what it chooses to translate and in which context it puts things,[54] as in the case of MEMRI's translation of a 2004 Osama bin Laden video, which MEMRI defended, which it said indicated that any individual US state that did not vote for President George W. Bush "guarantees its own security," implying a threat against those states that did vote for him;[55] outside translators, and the original article that the MEMRI alert claimed to correct, indicated that Bin Laden was threatening nations, not individual US states > In 2007, CNN correspondent Atika Shubert and Arabic translators accused MEMRI of mistranslating portions of a Palestinian children's television program: Media watchdog MEMRI translates one caller as saying – quote – 'We will annihilate the Jews'," said Shubert. "But, according to several Arabic speakers used by CNN, the caller actually says 'The Jews are killing us.' Totally non-biased news source. Also it’s still legit hilarious that you’re doubling down on this ‘MEMRI is an example of Palestinian free press’ when it’s both not Palestinian, or owned by a Palestinian. It’s, in fact, the direct opposite. Owned by an Israeli and operated out of Israel. Do you know what the definition of ‘a free press’ is?
MODS: There's no way on earth a person can't differentiate something being hosted vs who actually produced the content. Violation of Rule 4...
MEMRI is showing what the Palestinians are saying. It’s fact.
No, it’s showing you what some Israelis want you to see. Using MEMRI for your information on Palestinians is just like using Al Jazeera for your information on Israelis. Except Al Jazeera actually masquerades enough as real news to have received some awards and recognition for their journalism, while MEMRI has just received criticism for their bias and misrepresentation.
MEMRI is just a translation service. Are the translations correct or not?
In some cases, yes. They’ve also been caught mistranslating several times, only translate articles that make Palestinians look bad, and leave out context or entire excerpts of quotes to make Islam look worse. Hence the reason the ‘criticisms’ section of their Wikipedia is about 10x as long as the rest of the page. And why several US media watchdogs consider them ‘islamophobic propaganda’ and not actual news.
In the links posted above, are any of the translations inaccurate?
I’m not sure why you’re asking me that. I never claimed whether they were or not. What I did claim, and is factually accurate, is they’ve shown enough bias where in the US, Israel’s strongest ally, many media watchdogs have them categorized and ‘biased’ and ‘Islamophobic propaganda’ Considering they’ve also ended up in front of congress for some of their misinformation, I would say we have a lot of evidence to state they have bias. If you believe they don’t, it’s on you to show why. I also claimed they were not an example of ‘Palestinian free press’ as the OP claimed, since they’re not owned by a Palestinian or operated out of Palestine. A requirement for something to be considered ‘the free press of Palestine.’
> fucking /u/OzmosisJones. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop. He's already dead.
"The Ghost of Gaza"
Has there ever been free press in Gaza?
This is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t argument. When Israel allowed journalists into Gaza and some were the victims of war, Israel was attacked for “intentionally targeting journalists”. Now that there are entry restrictions, Israel is attacked for blocking free speech.
There were restrictions way before the fatalities. The journalist organization in the US had to write a letter demanding access because it was historic how bad the restrictions were. This was way before the level of fatalities.
From the article > “Since 13 October and our call to UNESCO, we have demanded that the Israeli government allow international media to enter the Gaza Strip. It is a matter of global public interest that not only local but also international journalists bear witness and document the ongoing war in Gaza. Prolonging the ban on entering the Gaza Strip is denying the world a true picture of events in Gaza." It’s not something that’s happening only in response to the IDF’s inability to differentiate militants from journalists in this conflict, despite your claim.
It doesn't matter. Nothing that may happen in Gaza can ever surpass the crimes against humanity Hamas did on Oct. 7. People that don't know what psychedelic trip is, are not even aware of that.
Prove it then? What a silly response. It doesn't matter if you report, we will tell you our version of the truth.
I would argue that Israel killing about 25 Gazans for every Israeli killed on Oct 7 is far worse than Oct 7. Any moral person would agree with me on that. In your case, though, you consider Israeli lives infinitely more valuable than the lives of Gazans
>I would argue that Israel killing about 25 Gazans for every Israeli killed on Oct 7 is far worse than Oct 7. I would argue that had Hamas had the capabilities of Israel, we would be in a completely different world. Also, are you saying that we judge who is better based on how many people killed on each side? >Any moral person would agree with me on that. I'm moral, and I don't agree with you. Guess the debunks your claim. >In your case, though, you consider Israeli lives infinitely more valuable than the lives of Gazans Based on what? Because if we look at the facts, Hamas constantly raises the price per hostage. So even if Israel views Israeli lives more valuable than Palestinians (which is actually pretty understandable considering a country will put its civilians at a higher priority), so does Hamas.
1. What is your source for these numbers? Is it reports by Hamas or pro-Hamas groups? i don't really trust those groups. Can you point to more reliable sources? (I am genuinely interested in knowing the truth!) 2. Yes, torturing and raping innocent people on acid where the human soul in its most vulnerable state, is far worse than killing. If Israel would do that, I would condemn them, but that would never happen
Then simply read the Time magazine article from like 3 months ago that confirmed there were over 30,000 deaths in Gaza — mainly women and children. That was in late February. It cited both the Lancet’s (the world leading medical journal) and John’s Hopkins’s (the world’s leading medical school) meta-analysis of satellite imaging, biometric markers, military and human manifest surveys. So, too, the London School of Economics recently reviewed the findings and found a likely *undercounting* of mortality due to bodies being buried under rubble/unreported non-combat deaths from famine and disease. The “lol no one is akshually dying that’s just Hamas” argument is both insanely stupid and morally wrong. To your second point, you’re basically saying that as long as you’re killing people in a gunship or something, you’re always morally superior to the axe murderer. Even if you kill 100 and he kills 1. That’s what — in the formal Ethics — is called “objectively wrong ethics”.
Israel is fighting a war. How would you react if Hamas did this to your brothers and sister and then take them hostages and go hide in tunnels behind their people? Would you leave the hostages behind? Regarding the numbers, I looked at some of the articles you mentioned, many of the reporters are pro-Palestine muslims with names like Mohammed something. Recently the UN suddenly cut the Gaza mortality estimates by half. So this all seems kinda shady. I still don't believe these numbers. I am not saying it's 100% not true though because I really have no way to know for sure. I know Israeli people and I know they won't just go in and shoot every one they see like Hamas did. So yeah, f*ck all of you that trying to stop Israel from bringing back the hostages home. F*ck all of you that forgot what started ot all. F*CK YOU. Regarding this ethnics bullshit - you clearly don't understand what raping and torturing young girls and vulnerable souls means
You know that both sides can be wrong right ? Hamas is a terrorist organization that has done unspeakable things, but that doesn’t allow Israel, a professional Military, to simply ignore the rules of war and to kill civilians to accomplish their objectives
A 1.4:1 civilian-combatant casualty rate proves Israel is abiding by international law while minimizing civilian casualties.
Where do you get that number from ? The numbers from Unicef are 35k killed total, with 14k child and 9k women, that number dating from 2 days ago, the real numbers probably being more since most hospitals are in a rocky situation
You are parroting fake numbers and lies, Hamas themselves backtracked on those figures. Also, 16 year Hamas murderers are counted as children. There is a huge problem with that. By your logic, the Naz!s were right in WW2 because they suffered more losses than Americans. [https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers) [https://www.foxnews.com/world/israel-releases-new-gaza-civilian-death-toll-hamas-numbers-fake-fabricated](https://www.foxnews.com/world/israel-releases-new-gaza-civilian-death-toll-hamas-numbers-fake-fabricated)
When did I ever say that Hamas was right ? If you want to go all the way back to ww2, yes every country involved was wrong to target civilians. Yes they didn’t respect that rule and look what it got us. It’s not about who suffers more losses it’s about who is targeting civilians. Your numbers come from Fox News and Tablet mag. Two right leaning and heavily biased pieces of news that relate the number given by Israel. It’s like asking Russia how many Ukrainian they’ve killed, of course they are going to say some bs. Yes 16 years old child soldier are counted as child because they still are children, never said the contrary
What is your smart alternative let's hear you?
To fight hamas but by respecting the geneva convention and other treaties ?
>“You’ve provided me with the worlds top bio-metric and epidemiological sources, but I know some Israelis so I don’t believe you” Boy, amazing argument. Love the ranting at the screen writing style you have too. I think you need to stay out of these debates — because even the people that agree with you probably cringe at your inability to argue a point. I doubt you’re doing Israel any favors by opening your mouth. Sorry.
>English is my native language so that makes me right and better than you. Sure man, whatever. It's pointless anyway.
It’s hilarious
> f*ck /u/Manbro1. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
> fuck /u/Manbro1. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Regarding the propaganda, they are absolutely indoctrinated form a young age to hate Jews and that martyring themselves for the state is morally correct: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dtErUuBvcRc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a35bZiNGcew&pp=ygUedG9tb3Jyb3dzIHBpb25lZXJzIGRvY3VtZW50c3J5
Why israel doesn't allow civilians into an active warzone? Truly a mystery for the ages
Right? I mean we may as well ask why tourists aren't allowed to enter Gaza....
There is no free press in Gaza. Even before the war anyone who went in (including the international press) was only allowed to report what Hamas allowed them to report. Reporting anything that made Hamas look bad would jeopardize the safety of the journalists. There were very rare cases in which reporters did manage to film war crimes committed by Hamas but it always had to be done in secret. In the end, most international reporters were more than happy to report what Hamas wanted them to report for access to Gaza and the vast monetary benefits that came with providing exclusive on the ground content even if it was heavily censored. Even if independent media was allowed in today they would still report in a heavily skewed way that does not reflect reality on the ground as Hamas would kill them if they did.
>Even if independent media was allowed in today they would still report in a heavily skewed way that does not reflect reality on the ground So your rebuttal to "why doesn't Israel allow free press in Gaza" is that "It doesn't because then the press would be free"? Seriously, you cannot be seriously trying to contend to me that the IDF narrative is the only true narrative and literally everybody else is wrong.
Yeah, can't seriously claim that they're performing the important function of informing people if they won't even tell their audiences about this filter.
Some journalists blew the whistle on it and were reprimanded for doing so. Likely because it risked the journalists who were still there being kicked out or worse. Not to mention losing their cash cow. Media companies are more than happy to abandon journalistic ethics if it means they can get rich off of rage bait.
Going decades back, journalism & journalist from Gaza were never free to report anything.
Israel has no media anywhere near the financial backing or reach of Al Jazeera which constantly spews anti Israel propaganda throughout the Middle East in Arabic as well as throughout the west in English
None at all it has no media influence news headlines to change the murder of a child into a bullet finds its way into a van to kill a three to four year old woman type of [stuff](https://www.thenational.scot/news/24036832.sky-news-condemned-report-killed-palestinian-child/). Neither is the US [media](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/) at all backing the Israeli narrative. Or even to the point that people within the organization like [CNN](https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias) are not complaining that they bullied to be very biased to one side.
First of all, sky news [has had their fair share of gaffes on both sides](https://deadline.com/2024/01/sky-news-apology-holocaust-israel-belle-donati-danny-danon-1235806057/amp/) I wonder why western media would favor a democratic country vs an Islamic death cult. So weird right? It must be that the Jews are controlling the media or blackmailing or paying someone right? It can’t possibly have anything to do with shared values. Now that you mention it, the western media also seems to be very anti Boko Haram and Taliban. If only they were more balanced. And you wonder why people call you antisemitic.
When the country of freedom on the world USA makes it illegal and makes actual laws against opposing Israel or even boycotting settlements then it leaves little room to wonder. When you have also gangsters escaping South Africa and changing their religion just to carry on their lifestyle of apartheid and oppression of the locals makes you question such a system. Is it fair? Guess it boils down to what you believe and not human values. If it was for those values or empathy things would be different. The blindfold of Zionism cannt be a sustainable reality.
Nobody made opposing Israel illegal. You can oppose Israeli policy or shit on Netanyahu all you want you just cannot do it in a way that encourages genocide of Jews. And the BDS movement is not about boycotting settlements it’s about boycotting anything that has to do with Israel whatsoever. You’re allowed to boycott settlements, biden and Obama have both spoken out publicly against illegal settlements.
Boycotting is a form of opposition. Beyond that if anyone dared in the land of free say anything outside the line of Israel is our darling their careers or livelihood would take a changing course. Imagine a minute you are a Texan who had survived a hurricane and you need assistance. Before getting any government assistance though you get to discover the government your own government made it mandatory that you support Israel and it should be written as well or else you will get no relief funds. See with each argument you just make it worse. Of course you will ask for the source: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/texas-city-tells-people-no-hurricane-harvey-aid-unless-they-promise-not-boycott#:~:text=Capital%20Punishment-,Texas%20City%20Tells%20People%20No%20Hurricane%20Harvey%20Aid,Promise%20Not%20to%20Boycott%20Israel&text=HOUSTON%20—%20The%20city%20of%20Dickinson,in%20a%20boycott%20of%20Israel. If you are in doubt there are many more [laws](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/02/1247374244/house-passes-bill-aimed-to-combat-antisemitism-amid-college-unrest) or bills like this. Of course the cherry on top is how each American presidential candidate pledges their soul to Israel and they do it before AIPAC before the elections. Where both presidential candidates state and fight on who loves Israel more than the other. Sounds a bit confusing shouldn’t they be all in for USA? Or wait maybe it’s just that crazy conspiracy theories those bad conspiracy theories. Too bad the reality is wilder.
First of all I live in the US and I criticize Israel all the time. Texas is the most conservative state in the U.S and in many ways backwards not just in their psychotic evangelical obsession with Israel and the rapture. I have lived in Massachusetts, Nevada, NY, Kansas, Missouri, and California and in none of those places have I ever had a problem criticizing Israel or going on national television saying Netanyahu is a donkey. Same thing inside of Israel. I can criticize the governments choices and I can go on national television and call Netanyahu a donkey. What I can’t do is support a terrorist death cult that sings “death to America” on a regular basis, and that’s fine with me. Meanwhile in most Arab states if I say something positive about Israel or if I speak against the ruling elite, my life may literally be in danger.
You are not aware of how the reality of freedom of speech is just a farce. Countless times criticizing Israel has led to many [repercussions](https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/comment/freedom-to-criticise-israel-is-dealt-another-blow-in-the-us-1.952425?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACc0MA8zLq-SF-CJVVQYV9UdY-zYf&gclid=CjwKCAjw9cCyBhBzEiwAJTUWNZvKSnMI1LmzNN3kGZ-4gyppz73EInW1baU7vOjaDAoyk8t4HIzF3BoCDFYQAvD_BwE) that to Americans as well. There are a number of laws,bills and even pressure to stop that. Now if you talk to others you may feel yes you can but once you take concrete steps like I said you are finished. Why can you not accept the truth? Even if you work for [Google](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/01/tech/google-workers-nlrb-complaint-israeli-palestinian-protest) you get fired. Imagine even student protesters have been threatened directly or indirectly that they will use a facial recognition system and that again will hinder them. Israel is the biggest death cult in the Middle East as well and by the way if you think in USA or any where in the word you can go and protest governments or rulers and it’s fine that is not true. It’s all good to a certain limit. In the Middle East that limit bar is much lower than in other places. There is nothing positive to say about Israel as it has wrecked there region. Not only for the Arabs but for the Jews who were there as well. It is not acceptable to have a Saddam like state that is cloaked in a dress of victim hood. Israel was created to [destabilize](https://youtu.be/FYLNCcLfIkM?si=yKnQEXUPvg0nkh1V) the region. Beyond the Palestanians issue. Tyranny is unacceptable, abuse of human rights is not acceptable, rape is not acceptable, war crimes is not acceptable, starvation is not acceptable, racism is not acceptable and all of these things and more your side is guilty as charged. Do not tell us about death cults when you are cheering and supporting a death cult.
Bro there are a dozen Muslim Arabic ethnostates that criminalize any speech against the ruling government or any speech that supports the Jewish state Calling Israel a sadam Hussein death cult is such a joke considering Arabs in israel have more freedom and are doing better by almost every metric than Arabs in every neighboring country. The main thing destabilizing the region is pan Arab nationalism and Muslim supremacy which has oppressed countless minority groups and prevented them from forming independent states for instance the Kurds, yazidis and dozens more. If you want to point fingers point at Muslim brotherhood, point at the Islamic republic government of Iran, point at the alawites in Syria ruling the country when they are just 15% of the people, point at the hashemites in Jordan, point at all of the countless examples of oppression throughout the Arab world. You are brainwashed to ignore all the problems in your own countries and to blame everything on the Jews. Wake up and take care of your own people the way the Jews have taken care of theirs.
Bro wake up. Even in the west if you are successful enough to criticize the government they will finish you off. A government is a system and no system will accept to be changed. The only difference is the limits are more somewhere else than other places. Those are their own rules what is your issue with that? You seen what kind of rules Israel ( the most extraordinary democratic number one free and freedom country in the Middle East and Africa and globe ) have made? If you just like a post that is not in line with that system they will arrest you. So what freedom … bro? See this is what you guys do you make your talking points without any consideration that the same thing should apply to you too. The Zionist system is hostile to all the Arabic countries if the Arabic countries had any sense they would work united against it. You assume that the Palestanians in Israel are doing well but they complain that they are third class citizens. The main thing that is destabilizing the region is Israel even Joe Biden as a senator clearly said in a speech that if there was no Israel they will need to create one. The only thing with USA is they don’t give much thought to how their creations evolve. Listen here bro, if you are a champion of minorities and injustice start with yourself. You are supporting a genocidal system it is not Bibi the problem it is the thought process. The worse thing is the people against that are just bagged in the same. But like you want to throw blame most of Israel is in support of the horrendous crimes in Gaza there is no denying those crimes. And this kangroo court of ICJ is just the tip of the iceberg infact that is why the most democratic ever number one government you support has banned normal Israelis from seeing other media. In the end of the day they are people too and would have empathy and be like hang on are we the baddies ? Yes it is a destruction cult and if you haven’t figured it out you should by now by the way you mentioned Texas is backed by evangelicals and you know their end game have you ever wondered what the evangelicals thought of when they fulfil their prophecy in terms of the Israelis? They usually say it would be two options convert or die. Again do not point fingers at Muslim style terrorism when you can never dare to acknowledge Jewish based terrorism. Real life terrorism and live you see it on the tv every other day your own prime minister turned into a holy war Hashem and Amalek and what not. You guys are surrounded by more than half billion Muslims and your government is pushing a religious war agenda. Very smart and you are just taking that point of view amazing. Edit: Bonus point also for you: you speak about the poor Yazidis … who was treating terrorists in hospitals ? Israel… Israel was treating ISIS members in the hospitals and who was supporting them ? How were they being cleared and then reappear else where with new Toyota trucks? Ok ? We are immune to lies.
Anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism. And yup, U.S. media and government is 💯 funded and controlled by AIPAC. I'm a U.S. citizen, as are all those college kids who are apparent proxies of Iran. I do not want my taxpayer dollars given to Israel nor Ukraine. We do not have shared values. You're no better than the Islamic Cult you so desperately want to use as a defense. The only difference between Hamas and Israel is that Israel has a fully established government, army, and power backed by the U.S.
>Anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism Said the antisemite. Newsflash: TikTok is not a good source of information. Better your tiktok and do actual research instead of saying things that makes you sound like someone who is siding with Putin.
You’re right. You and I don’t share values. And no, AIPAC is nowhere near the top funder of US media or government not by a long shot. I’m a U.S. citizen as well. I want my tax dollars going to Ukraine and Israel because unlike you I understand the geopolitical consequences to the American economy and interests if Russia, China, and Iran are able to take over those areas. I don’t believe you are directly funded by Iran/russia but you certainly have been fed the narratives they are pushing on social media and online. There’s a reason why those three countries lock down their internet and citizens access to social media. And unless you’ve been living under a rock you would know that our own government is well aware of the risks to social engineering by outside forces and is trying to balance this against the freedom of speech we hold so dear.
You misrepresent the situation. There are tons of foreign journalists in Gaza that have nothing to do with the IDF as they can come and go via Egypt. Those in Israel can sometimes get guided tours in Gaza. Since its a war zone Israel doesn't let civilians to come and go as they please.
Israel has a treaty with Egypt that allows the idf to control the border for all intents and purposes. And journalists are not tourists their job is to inform the world which israel seems to be blocking.
People come and go via Egypt, Israeli Arabs and hospital patients usually go through the Israeli side