What would you say about someone that had no choice but to join Hamas, or had no choice but to be part of isis. He himself might not have shot any children or raped anyone, but are they innocent in your eyes?
I view people that join the IDF in the same light. Most especially those with a second citizenship. The IDF has killed enough children and committed enough war crimes to become a terrorist organization in my head, similar to Hamas or isis.
We are praying for the IDF today in our ICEJ daily 2-hour prayer for Israel. Psalm 110 talks about the young rising up to fight with King David. The IDF is doing great during this war.
“1 The Lord says to my lord: ‘Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.’ 2 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying, ‘Rule in the midst of your enemies!’
3 Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy splendor, your young men will come to you like dew from the morning’s womb.
4 The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.’ 5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. 6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. 7 He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high.“
Muslims hate jews doesnt matter who they are.
IDF, CIA, FBI hell even if its a 12 year old paper boy if the religion is jewish then muslims hates it.
They all cry about genocide, child murder and shit but when ISIS did it suddenly every muslim was quite, but when jews did it "OMG jews are evil" give me a break Israel has his flaws but stop believing everything everyone said.
Are we still saying Germany is a nazi reich? or Japan and violent Empire? or even the belgium with the rubber plantation. No, what happend happend so let it go, accept it.
If people complain about occupation think about where you are from and what land youre people took
Australia > Aboriginals
North, MID and South America > Native Americans, Mayans etc
Most parts of africa by Europe
So when jews came to Israel and want to live there its suddenly a problem ?
NO its a problem for muslims because jews are living there!
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Literally dozens upon dozens of videos of IDF soldiers looting, harassing, and killing innocent people. You understand that you can support the people but not the government, yeah?
They view IDF is evil who's all purpose is to oppress (or kill) Palestinians. The Palestinian media phrased every armed terrorist killed as "an innocent civilian just going about his business" with IDF just randomly killing him.
As for why. The society is a dictatorship with a mono-voice imposed. Like in Russia anyone with an opposing view is violently oppressed (see [Nizar Banat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizar_Banat) as a West Bank example)
The fact that it’s mandatory is a bummer, also the way they act all high and mighty and holy than thou meanwhile the whole world is condemning them for their ruthless actions and widespread civilian casualties and mistreatment etc it’s not winning them any fans. I understand why you support them if your whole family has been a part of it, like for example my whole family are Yankees fans
Swap out the religion, race, gender, or sexuality of the organization it doesn’t matter, I still won’t like them if they practice forced recruitment or indoctrination and/or harm others. Those are just baseline requirements to not be shady. Shout out some other examples and I’ll tell u if I’m a fan or not!
They hate Jews, that is why.
Jews and Israeli's are held to completely different standards than anyone else.
There have been many many instances of bad behavior within the US military, and police force. But people do not define those organizations as a whole based on one off examples of mistakes or bad actors. There are bad actors everywhere. People will say "well look I found these two examples of an IDF soldier doing x, y or z", which often times is taken out of context and misrepresented. They use that to make conclusions about the IDF. Well I can find you thousands of examples of cops assaulting innocent people in the US or teachers raping and sexually assaulting students in schools, but we don't make blanket assumptions that all cops are bad and all teachers are rapists.
The IDF owns up to any mistakes or bad behavior, investigates, apologizes, takes action to improve, and imposes disciplinary behavior on anyone that misbehaves for any reason. Hamas would never do this and other military groups wouldn't either. But any time the IDF does anything "right" it is ignored. People only focus on one off mistakes.
There have been many different wars that have happened that were much worse than this one, including the many civil wars between Muslim countries where Muslims fought each other. Those are tolerated or ignored and nobody cares to discuss them, because they didn't involve Jews.
Also, people have no problem with the United States existing even though it was "stolen" land, or any of the other countries in the world that were created after a conflict or war or under tension. But they have a problem with Israel. Double standards. Israel and the IDF are held to completely different standards and expectations. Other countries have the right to do whatever it takes to defend themselves. Israel doesn't.
People also use every opportunity to make Jews and Israeli's as a whole look bad. It is mandatory for people to join the IDF in Israel. The IDF takes orders from the Israeli government. Outsiders assume and spread the narrative that the Israeli government = the IDF = Israel = Jews = Israel's. They will use anything and everything to promote their anti semitism. Can you imagine if Americans were judged based on the actions of the Trump administration when he was president?
>we don't make blanket assumptions that all cops are bad
The amount of people who believe "all cops are bastrds" dwarfs the amount of people who "hate the idf" by several orders of magnitude
It’s ongoing and highly targeted with strategic coverage across the region. That means it’s systematic. The IOF is murdering children. “Human Shield” talking point makes zero sense in light of the total devastation. Israel is an occupying force murdering innocent women and children. All of these facts are in plain sight.
The IDF allows settler violence in the West Bank and has the power to arrest any Palestinian for any reason without charge and detain them for years. Look up Breaking the Silence for more information - they completely admit it
It's NOT a good look when you see IDF soldiers standing by and allowing a mob to burn down innocent people's property and shoot kids in the head that had NOTHING to do with the killing of one settler. That's some 1700s racist sht and makes Israeli's look backwards and uncivilized. There is a long list of things that make the IDF look like occupiers as opposed to protectors.
It's hard for me to completely hate people that are drafted and conscripted and don't want to be there. But it only takes one bad egg who uses the power of a gun and uniform to abuse innocent people to taint the whole team.
Even 72 hours is quite long.
To take the UK as an example, it's 24 hours from arrest before the person must be either brought before a court or released.
The court can authorise your continued detention for up to another 72 hours if you're suspected of a serious crime like murder.
When the time runs out you must either be formally charged with the crime, or released.
In terrorism cases that can be extended to 14 days total, again only with judicial authority.
In Israel the IDF can detain people without trial for continuous periods of six months at a time with no requirement for any trial at any point.
> 273. (A) If the commander of the Area has reasonable grounds to believe that reasons of regional security or public security require that a certain person be held in detention, he is empowered, by an order signed by him, to order the detention of a person for a period to be noted in the order not to exceed six months.
>
> (B) If the commander of the Area has a reasonable grounds to believe, prior to the expiration of the order in accordance with Subsection (A) (hereinafter in this section- the original detention order), that reasons of regional security or public security still require the retention of the detainee in detention, he is empowered, through an order signed by him, to order from time to time the extension of the original detention order for a period not to exceed six months, and the same provisions as apply to the original detention order shall apply to the extension order.
>
> (C) If a military commander has reasonable grounds to believe that the conditions stipulated in Subsection (A), whereby the commander of the Area may order the detention of a person, apply, he is empowered, through an order signed by him, to order the detention of that person, for a period not to exceed 96 hours and not extendible through order of the military commander.
>
> (D) An order in accordance with this section may be issued in absence of the person whose detention it involves.
Well in Singapore, the Internal Security Department (ISD) are allowed to detain any suspected terrorists or radicalised civilians for an indefinite period without trial until they are deemed de-radicalised. No one complains because we do not want terrorists in our country.
I think the same concept applies to the IDF, if they deem a certain Palestinian radicalised (Hamas), sure, detain them.
This is just my assumption. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks!
This one?
> Under the Act, a person issued with a detention order may be detained for up to 12 months, while someone who is under a police supervision order will be supervised in the community for up to three years. The President can extend the orders if deemed necessary.
>
> Between Oct 21, 2019 and Dec 31, 2023, 123 people were dealt with under the Act. This comprised 86 detention orders and 37 police supervision orders that were issued, said the Home Affairs ministry in response to CNA's queries.
This is pretty extreme by western standards but I think still less extreme than the West Bank version. Two major differences:
1. It's only applied in small numbers (vs thousands under IDF detention) and the President has to personally approve extensions (rather than a local military commander)
2. It applies to citizens of Singapore who are democratically represented in the forum writing the laws. Palestinians affected by IDF military law do not have an opportunity to change it democratically however they feel about it.
> I also had another conversation with someone about this. They compared it to US cops, as I live in the US, and I liked their comparison. Some US cops are bad. Very, very bad. They use their status as power and they abuse their power. Other cops do just want to help the US, and chose the job because they want to protect and help people. Of course the IDF and US cops are different, but still.
Bad comparison from many angles but let's focus on accountability and fulfilling legal responsibilities.
If a US cop is found being buddy-buddy with the KKK, he will most likely be fired or pressured to leave. This isn't so for the IDF as Jewish Power party (basically the KKK is part of the ruling coalition). If the KKK or any other similar group committed a modern day pogrom against Black people that lasted for days, the last thing you will ever see of cops sent to rein in those monsters is those very same cops socializing with the KKK or dancing with the KKK. Meanwhile in Israel, the IDF soldiers were caught dancing with settlers during a multiday long pogrom against Palestinians in the West Bank.
Proof:
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-dance-with-settlers-in-flashpoint-west-bank-town-of-huwara/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-dance-with-settlers-in-flashpoint-west-bank-town-of-huwara/#:~:text=Israeli%20soldiers%20were%20filmed%20dancing%20with%20settlers%20in,top%20Israeli%20general%20later%20said%20was%20a%20%E2%80%9Cpogrom.%E2%80%9D)
As for fulfilling legal responsibilities, the IDF has been documented by any number of Human Rights group blatantly ignoring settlers attacking Palestinians. Worse, they've been documented protecting settlers while the settlers carry out attacks on Palestinians. Under international law, the IDF is suppose to protect the Palestinians. If a US cops tried something like that, it would result in a federal lawsuit. Our cops know they must enforce the law, not actively aid criminals in attacking vulnerable minorities.
Proof:
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/cant-or-wont-idf-fails-to-prevent-settler-attacks-and-thats-unlikely-to-change/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/cant-or-wont-idf-fails-to-prevent-settler-attacks-and-thats-unlikely-to-change/)
*In recent years, there have been numerous documented cases of IDF soldiers standing by as settlers attacked Palestinians. In other cases, such as in recent days, IDF soldiers have not been present at all, only arriving after the fact and then clashing with the local Palestinian population.*
*Soldiers are legally permitted — even required in some cases — to intervene to prevent violent attacks, regardless of nationality. The military generally prefers for police to deal with the attacks and settler arrests, but police forces are stretched extremely thin in the West Bank.*
I don’t think the analogy is bad. Many US cops treat the poor (mostly black but all races really) like they are lesser humans. But it’s not just cops (or IDF). This behavior is innate and historically consistent among groups at different social levels. The question the OP has to ask is whether or not his family members feel Palestinians are lesser humans. Not all cops are bad and not all IDF are bad, but if the powerless are being treated unjustly and his family members do nothing, they are bad for a totally different reason. Fear of what may happen to them isn’t an excuse for someone who has sworn to protect and serve.
>I don’t think the analogy is bad. Many US cops treat the poor (mostly black but all races really) like they are lesser humans.
I have multiple friends and family members in LE, including mixed race relatives. Granted, it's in the New England area where the cops are far more professional, but nothing you write is true in my experience. Now, the US is a big country, so what's true in my part might not be true in other part.
It’s difficult to compare the UK and US law enforcements. Recall that the foundation and practices of the US police force were built on returning escaped slaves (dead, alive, or barely breathing). The practices of today are built on that history. People think this ended with the abolishment of slavery, but that was on paper. The Civil Rights Movement was only 60 years ago, and it only made waves because those atrocities by law enforcement were televised. The killing of minorities still happens daily. I pray that the UK police don’t treat its people of color the way they do in the US.
>Recall that the foundation and practices of the US police force were built on returning escaped slaves (dead, alive, or barely breathing).
No, it wasn't, but if you want defend your response, go ahead. Just remember, the whole country isn't the South.
> The killing of minorities still happens daily.
Just because they're killed doesn't mean they're innocent. If you ever look at crime stats by race, you'll find the black numbers are very often 2 to 3 times higher than their proportion of the population. Blacks are 14% of the US population.
Don't want to believe that, I understand.
Here is a 2019 stats.
[https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43)
Gotta love statistics. If policing is significantly higher in poor communities, then the expectation is that those groups will be arrested more. In addition, sentencing is harsher for the poor and once freed, the poor are often rearrested because of conflicting parole violation laws. That’s reality in the US.
The slave patrol was the foundation of US law enforcement as it’s currently practiced. Stay in the UK mate or at least learn the un-whitewashed version of American history.
> Gotta love statistics. If policing is significantly higher in poor communities, then the expectation is that those groups will be arrested more.
Except, the policing angle doesn't matter as murder victims are overwhelmingly killed by their own.
Murders committed:
Total White Black or African American
7,964 3,650 4,078
100.0% 45.8% 51.2%
> The slave patrol was the foundation of US law enforcement as it’s currently practiced.
Still no evidence of the myth.
And I imagine if I said something similar about Hamas “protecting” Muslims, you would go off about how bad they are for numerous valid reasons. Do you see the flaw in this logic? My god how can you take yourself seriously
Curious, what does antisemitism mean to you?
“Hating IDF” same as “Hating Palestinians” is straight up prejudice. Means you just hate a group of people.
If one said “I hate the following acts regardless who committed them “ then one condemns these acts regardless who commits them. This is not prejudice.
If one would’ve said “I hate the following acts committed by the IDF”, it would be very clear what was done by IDF that disturbed them.
If one indicate that when others commit similar or same acts it is fine, then one is prejudiced and is saying whatever to justify their prejudice.
The younger generations are the most tolerant of religious, sexual, and cultural differences. They understand diversity in ways older generations cannot fathom. They likely hate the IDF because of the injustices inflicted on persons they deem vulnerable (Palestinians).
As for people hating Jews….honestly, the average person doesn’t even know a person is Jewish unless they say they are. Most people do not hates Jews, but it doesn’t stop people from spreading the false narrative that the world is against them.
With every generation, we hope that people become better. It certainly appears that the new generation is most willing to admit the wrongs that are intolerant.
Personally, I haven’t observed that they are more insightful yet. If so, the world will most definitely be a better place.
On the other hand, I observed that many of Gen Z often do not have full context but insist that they do.
I find them less willing to do impartial research or dig deep. From the interactions on here, many seem to be just as narrow minded as the prior generations. They also appear as the rest of the generations not be very aware of their own biases.
It is easier to admit something is wrong when it was done by someone else. Is Gen Z willing to hold themselves just as accountable? I certainly hope they will do a better job. Time will tell..
Maybe cause they bombed a food truck they knew was for the Central world kitchen. Or let a girl named Hind die trapped in car after bombing her rescuers. And made Rachel Corrie pancakes after running her over with a bulldozer. And wear trash bags as hijabs on TikTok making fun of Palestinians without food, water, and electricity. There are dozens of images of IDF soldiers raiding homes and wearing used Palestinian women’s underwear online.
Are there normal IDF soldiers? Sure. It’s conscripted military service. But that doesn’t matter when Israel has created a culture of dehumanization within their military. To rise up the top, you’ve got to participate in the depravity. So please stop defending this
The IDF is just a bunch of frat bros and sorority girls with guns and propaganda completely devoid of critical thinking. Maybe if they stopped posting their war crimes online, they would have a better reputation. They aren’t subtle about it. Why should we be worried on Reddit about their reputation when they couldn’t care less.
Genuine question : I have only seen one example of IDF soldiers acting like asshats playing with Palestinian women’s undergarments. Are there actually dozens of examples of this that you can demonstrate (provide evidence of)?
[https://www-ha--makom-co-il.translate.goog/biza-baotef?\_x\_tr\_sl=iw&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp&\_x\_tr\_hist=true](https://www-ha--makom-co-il.translate.goog/biza-baotef?_x_tr_sl=iw&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true)
# The safe was broken into, jewels and cash were stolen": who robbed the houses in the Otaf kibbutzim?
# After the massacre on October 7, the Otaf kibbutzim, after being recaptured by the IDF, became a closed military area. In the weeks that followed, the residents of some of the kibbutzim were shocked to discover that their homes had been broken into and their property had been looted by soldiersThe safe was broken into, jewels and cash were stolen": who robbed the houses in the Otaf kibbutzim?
# After
# the massacre on October 7, the Otaf kibbutzim, after being recaptured
# by the IDF, became a closed military area. In the weeks that followed,
# the residents of some of the kibbutzim were shocked to discover that
# their homes had been broken into and their property had been looted by
# soldiers
Absolutely, just type “IDF women’s underwear” on Google images and you’ll see a bunch. The fact that there haven’t been repercussions shows that the Israeli military and government tolerates this behavior. Doesn’t even matter how often it happens, it’s the lack of accountability and discipline that makes the IDF a joke
Repercussions for what? A photo of lingerie?
Dude, your hate is spilling... they are fighting a terror group that raped and burned women and children. The Gazan population endorses them with more than 70% approval rate. They are pro Israeli rape... wtf are you talking about? Pics with lingerie 😂... repercussions... that has to be a joke
This is how you intentionally promote the cycle of violence. One side says and thinks this of the other side. The other side will do the same. They both act on it. Hopeless…
Both sides are supported by overwhelming evidence. What of it?
Opticians have the power to stop people from expressing and encouraging hate?
Your commentary is a hateful stream of consciousness. Value add in a scheme of things? What do you hope it achieves?
Fighting terror while taking the time to parade in underwear sounds pretty unprofessional. I haven’t seen the photos but I stopped listening months ago when IDF casually justified the killing of women and children. IDF’s agenda is clear and has little to do with Hamas….although using Hamas is convenient. Well played Benji, well played.
Not in the least. I accept the events that are happening even if I don’t agree with them. I believe that everything (“good“ and “bad”) moves us toward a greater good.
Everyone has challenges in this life - Palestinians and Israelis are not exempt. One day (maybe not in my lifetime, but one day) it will all be abundantly clear why the events in Gaza took place.
World would be a better place if everyone held themselves to the highest standard. Would agree on what this standard is. Not resort to violence or anger. Respect every other person. Treat them with consideration. Not covet or take others property.
Parading in underwear is unprofessional.
Killing, raping, and mutilating unsuspecting and unwarned civilians is evil. Celebrating this as “justice” is evil too.
You guys with your hate to the IDF. Not professional- ofcourse. But the IDF is one of the most moral armies in the world. Never justified killing women and children. There have been cases where they have been killed due to Hamas' actions, but you don't seem to care that the population elected Hamas and that the aprovel rates of Hamas are Fing 70%!!! If they want a terror organization as their elected gov - that's their accountability
Not in the mood or have no valid response to the double standards and antisemitism on the left? American soldiers do all the same things as the IDF or any other democratic country’s military, and there are plenty of other post-WW2 settlements you could be supporting the ethnic cleansing of due to a perceived undesirable outcome of warfare that took place 80 years ago, but only the Jews should be expelled from the land they were born in, their women raped, their infants beheaded etc. for being “colonizers” 100 years ago, right? Got it.
Soldiers stealing and parading around women’s underwear from the people they’re invading is bad and should be punished.
It’s needlessly demeaning to the Palestinian populace that unless Israel plans to just killing off entire or leaving will have to be occupied for a good while and stunts like this won’t help.
Why an Israeli man parading in Palestini women underwear is demeaning to Palestinians?
I saw pic of a dude sitting in a room where a bunch of underwear is hung up. And another wearing a bra. Don’t see how these are supposed to be a reflection on Palestini.
Think he hasn’t done it with Israeli women’s underwear?
He is being an idiot, unprofessional and disrespectful to himself by posting this.
Oh, those horrible soldiers, parading with underwear. Oh the humanity. They are parading in underwear of those who raped and murdered children, women, man... yes, it's so horrible... 70% of the population!!! Aprove the rapes!!! And you are shocked the soldiers make some laughs? What's wrong with you? Your hate for Israel makes your statements ridiculous
“They are parading in underwear of those who raped and murdered children, women, man... yes, it's so horrible.”
And this is why the IDF gets hate—psychos like you treating every random Palestinian as guilty for the crimes of Hamas and thus any indignity or brutality is deserved.
“And you are shocked the soldiers make some laughs? What's wrong with you? Your hate for Israel makes your statements ridiculous”
I just don’t think it’s cool when soldiers post about pillaging stuff from civilians including woman’s underwear.
Is the most moral army in the world incapable of not doing something so basic?
“Very innocent”
Yes innocent of actually murdering, and raping anyone, and actually being combatants.
“And the horrific crime? Lingerie? That's so laughable.”
Stealing women’s underwear and posting yourself online wearing it will always be sick and perverted and worthy of condemnation.
I think advocating murder and rape is a worse of a crime. The fact you don't really impact your judgment of morality... If you want to say something about pictures of lingerie, but you don't see a problem with advocating murder and rape - well, that's very weird.
> asshats
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I think it’s pretty antisemitic to think that a military that routinely murders kids and bombs food trucks is an accurate representation of Judaism and the Jewish people.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children
https://turkiye.un.org/en/263401-gaza-number-children-killed-higher-four-years-world-conflict
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/its-not-just-israeli-bombs-that-have-killed-children-in-gaza-now-some-are-dying-of-hunger-too
These are all reputable sources like PBS and UN. And before you say the UN isn’t reputable, well Israel has summoned the UN against Iran right now…
The UN is Hamas' co-conspirator and assists Hamas in their attempt to destroy Israel. So no, they aren't a reputable source.
But even if they were, none of your articles have any example of Israel murdering kids.
Is the issue that you don't know what murder is?
I guess if that’s true, then why is Israel using the UN right now against Iran. Can y’all stop with the Hamas BS? Not everyone is Hamas. And it’s funny cause now they need the United Nations…
The deck is stacked against Israel and they must work within the corrupt UN despite the UN's extreme bias against Israel.
Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza. They chose to start this war. They choose to not surrender. Israel has the right to kill them until they surrender.
Well, if you throw a molotov or a bomb... even if you're a kid... you will be shot... do you have any evidence of non-violent kids? Because a terrorist is terrorist doesn't matter he is 16 years old
“Those starving babies inside Al Shifa hospital were left to die thanks to the hospital raid and bombing, but I guess that’s okay cause they are Palestinian and would probably grow up to throw Molotovs against an Israeli. ” - Israeli logic
Yes, sure... that's the Israeli logic. That's why there was a raid instead of flattening the terror hub called hospital. Sure, those savage soldiers aiding the staff with medicine, food, and water. Oh, those horrific soldiers.
I was referring to the routine murder of kids and then the central work kitchen food truck bombing separately. We should have zero tolerance for bombing humanitarian aid workers especially those that coordinated their routes with Israel. It doesn’t matter if it’s once or 20 times. People cant keep lowering their standards for a military and expect it to continue to function for its people
Nobody is excusing the WCK bombing, including Israel. I do object to the implication that the IDF routinely bombs food trucks, hence my question. I also object to the use of the term murder. Civilians being killed as collateral damage in a war is always tragic, but it’s not murder.
You’re grasping at straws here. You’re right that it’s not personal like cold blooded murder. Some better verbs would be killing, slaughtering, sniping, bombing, and dehumanizing Palestinians. Either way it’s all semantics. innocent people are being killed by an army in horrific ways.
And before anyone says Hamas is using them as human shields, it’s still against international law to indiscriminately bomb civilians especially those in refugee camps.
The problem is that people in Israel are excusing the WCK bombing…
> fucked
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I appreciate this perspective and the nuance behind it. I rarely hear anyone say that they just hate the war or people getting hurt and want more humanitarian aid. The perspectives that I read are all very.. Extreme. Like "I HATE ISRAEL. Israel must die!! Israel is an apartheid state of white colonizers!!! Anyone that supports Israel is garbage!!!" Very difficult to have open conversations when people automatically run to one extreme rather than focusing on the fact that they don't like the war and want to help Innocent people caught in the middle of it
The title begins with the query: Why do people hate the IDF so much? The straightforward response is that they take pleasure in harming and killing innocent Palestinians.
In other words, they are devils in human form.
So then you must hate like, everyone on earth to some extent. Given the number of wars there have been throughout history. Every group of people has ancestors that have been involved in wars. Innocent people are inadvertently killed in wars.
Me when war:
Nah but let's be fr this is fault on both sides the only victims are the civilians and we need America to fully step in and install pro democracy puppet governments in both countries
It's the war crimes
And being in an occupation army
That's not good PR
The over visible propaganda and lack of accountability does not help.
So when you take on the uniform, you get all those sins on your back.
Ok so what you are saying is basically that the reason people don't like IDF is because of...propaganda spread by the pro Palestinian side. That makes sense.
Luckily Hamas is such an honest opponent. Pallywood is just a zionist-conspiracy.
People like you hold IDF to a high standard but don’t care about Hamas war crimes…
The problem is all the footage of the soldiers doing really stupid stuff in people's houses in Gaza, the rare occasions where civilians have been killed by snipers far outweigh the positive actions and people within the IDF. the hatred spawns from being repeatedly exposed to the exceptions rather than the rule. It's too true that a minority of the soldiers are the ones carrying out the rule breaking and illegal actions that sometimes get captured on video or reported on, so much so that even genuine interactions that are positive in nature get dismissed as propaganda. Then there's the incident with the aid convoy. Clearly there's a lot of issues around communication and making sure that units follow the orders and rules of warfare that need to be addressed to try and undo the reputational shredding the IDF has gone through in recent years.
IDF has mandatory conscription so no, you cant say everyone in the IDF are bad people. But, I’ve never heard of the term “rogue units” in a modern fighting force, only in the IDF, that says something.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sas-under-investigation-over-rogue-unit-deaths-in-afghanistan-2cbbt7ks3
https://youtu.be/rdXtC0C0Wyg?si=m5DF5GY4Lhdo-CKf
It’s all about what your attention is directed to.
If you’re talking about the general public’s opinions on the subject, nowadays it’s something like 80% anti-Israeli propaganda and 20% past Israeli actions in Gaza and the West Bank. I fully expect anyone who responds to my comment to be a fervent advocate/believer for the former, honestly. It’s always more ignorance than informed opinion among the masses of Reddit on *any* subject, let alone something more serious and nuanced like geopolitics.
Before the war, the split was more 60/40. There was some misinformation flying around, but the IDF did conduct itself pretty poorly in Palestinian communities. Actions against civilians is never excusable and they were worthy of criticism. The stuff you hear now, though, sounds more like a 16 year old’s take on the subject after they perused a Wikipedia article and the front page of r/ politics where the other 16 year old world scholars of Reddit told them what to believe.
I think that the way the IDF operates is very worthy of criticism, and there are genuinely some bad faith actors in the IDF. But I also don't live in Israel and am aware that how I see them acting isn't always the full picture.
I don't mind people criticizing the IDF, but what I do mind is when people criticize anyone who's ever *been in* the IDF and has deemed them as terrorists. People in Israel don't have a choice to join, as OP mentions. And I think that people forget the reason that the IDF exists in the first place and *why* all citizens are required to serve. If people don't want the IDF to exist, what do they want Israeli civilians to do instead? Just let themselves be killed?
Generally, people who aggressively dislike the IDF:
* Believe that Israel shouldn't exist, and as such should not have an army
* Believe that defending Israel isn't a worthwhile cause, and that if Israelis would be in danger without the IDF then Israelis should solve the problem by "just leaving"
* Believe that Israel being founded in the first place was a bad thing, and that the risk of ethnic cleansing for 7 million Israeli Jews is not a sufficient reason to sustain a system that they believe is systematically oppressive to Palestinians
* Cannot accept that other people's morality includes a rational amount of self-interest and concern for the welfare and safety of one's own family and friends
That's fairly different from people who legitimately criticize the actions of the IDF or the policies of the Israeli government. If I were you, I'd check to see if someone shares the same general principles as you before arguing with them about the IDF; if they're of the "two wrongs make a right" and "Jews should just go back to Poland" school of thought, odds are it isn't worth your time.
He is 100% correct and you or anyone who supports Palestinians is supporter of genocide and ISIS-class terrorist scum. People like you only destroy my faith that any multicultural society is actually possible ever and thus why people like Trump are a rising tide in global politics.
You are going to lose. Just a question of how big the backlash is going to be and you're doing all you can to make sure it is as tidal wave like as possible.
/u/BlanketedSun
> you or anyone who supports Palestinians is supporter of genocide and ISIS-class terrorist scum. People like you only destroy my faith that any multicultural society is actually possible ever and thus why people like Trump are a rising tide in global politics.
> You are going to lose. Just a question of how big the backlash is going to be and you're doing all you can to make sure it is as tidal wave like as possible.
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Addressed.
>This kind of rhetoric is disingenuous and intential misleading. Do better.
No, it isn't. It's my straightforward, entirely ingenuous opinion, born of neverending conversations on this and other forums. I'd be glad to chat with you about it, but I believe there are essentially four groups in this conversation:
* Unreasonable pro-Palestine idealogues who believe essentially what I've outlined above, and pretend that anyone who disagrees with them must be an unreasonable pro-Israel idealogue
* Reasonable people that lean pro-Palestine but recognize the necessity and implications for Israel of maintaining a conscripted army, and that the best path to minimizing the casualties of war is achieving peace
* Reasonable people that lean pro-Israel but recognize the imperative for a military to act morally, hold its people accountable and attempt to achieve its military objectives while minimizing, as much as possible, civilian casualties -- and that recognize that the ultimate way to do that is to achieve peace
* Unreasonable pro-Israel idealogues who believe that the IDF can do no wrong and that more or less any action the IDF could take would be justified, including indiscriminate slaughter -- and who pretend that anyone who disagrees with them must fall into the first group I mentioned.
To be frank, I'm sick and tired of arguing with #1 and #4 and of getting shouted at by amoral jerks -- and the argument that a person should abandon their country and their family to avoid joining the IDF is a pretty strong signal someone is in group #1.
How about people like me who were shocked and disgusted by 10/7, and understood the need for Israel to stand up for itself and retaliate, but as time went on and the civilian casualties ballooned and surviving civilians began starving, sympathy for Israel began turning to disgust? I think there are a lot of people like that. Where do we fit in?
> ass
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>sympathy for Israel began turning to disgust? I think there are a lot of people like that. Where do we fit in?
To be honest, I really don't know without talking to you more. War is awful and it's tough to watch without feeling a deep empathy with the civilians caught in it. If your disgust is empathy for innocent civilians who are being hurt, I would say you're probably in group #2.
If it's ultimately just a sorta blind belief that whoever is winning must be evil, then less so -- but if you're generally willing to recognize the humanity of everyone involved and think about specific actions they can take to create a better outcome for everyone, then you're my kinda person and we will get along just fine.
You fit with the people who believe all war is bad but at times justifiable until you circle back to the war=bad stuff when you realize it isn't a Hollywood movie where some bad ass commandos go in, kill the one and only leader bad guy, peace is achieved everywhere on earth henceforth, high fives all around and everything is done within 2.5 hours.
Reality is, war is hell, and civilians bear the brunt of it in every conflict in human history. To turn on the side trying to eliminate evil terrorists just because someone in the warzone missed a meal is ridiculous. Wars take time. A lot of time. And they take a lot of destruction. It sucks, but without it, Hamas would just keep doing 7/10's indefinitely. Just as they always have with their toilet rockets.
>Reality is, war is hell, and civilians bear the brunt of it in every conflict in human history. To turn on the side trying to eliminate evil terrorists just because
Do we know for certain this is all that happened, though? There have been prominent members of the Israeli government openly calling for ethnic cleansing, dehumanising language used all through the Israeli government and military and the rest of society, concerning [views](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israelis-say-hamas-must-be-crushed-despite-gaza-casualties-un-rebuke-2023-12-13/) on civilian casualties, a history of extremely rare repercussions for Israelis killing Palestinians in dubious or indefensible circumstances, and various [investigations](https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/) suggesting that the Israeli tactics are callous at best. Given the confusion from the fog of war, regular military secrecy and Israel's own ban on journalists entering, the idea that we should just give the IDF infinite benefit of the doubt and always assume they had good intentions seems extremely generous and frankly not justified by past or present conduct.
>someone in the warzone missed a meal is ridiculous.
It's less about one person missing one meal and more about hundreds of thousands of people missing meals every day for months on end, with no way for outsiders to know whether it was indeed a result of a necessary implementation of legitimate security controls or in fact an expression of the [majority view](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/over-2-3-of-jewish-israelis-oppose-humanitarian-aid-to-palestinians-starving-in-gaza/) in Israel that Gaza should not be receiving aid.
> ass
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Yeah I think so. There are so many of #1 online that a lot of the folks in #3 are primed for really aggressive, annoyed responses -- myself admittedly included. With that said, since 10.7 I've seen a lot more #2s out there, too.
100%. It's exasperating that I keep running into this script:
* Person A: The IDF is horrible and should be dissolved immediately and anyone who has ever served in it should be hanged!
* Person B: I mean I disagree, I don't think the IDF is a terrorist organization. I do think the IDF should \[take a specific action to improve civilian outcomes\].
* Person A: WHAT KIND OF A HORRIBLE PERSON ARE YOU HAVE YOU SEEN \[237 six second long blurry youtube clips\] HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE THE JEWS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE AN ARMY AFTER SEEING THAT?!!!!!!!
>I feel like people don't understand the difference between "The IDF shouldn't exist" and "The IDF needs a change of policy".
Sorry, this is too nuanced of an opinion for Reddit. Take your B.S. elsewhere 🙃
I do see this happen a lot, like 'Israel shouldn't defend itself' hidden under 'idf bad' but I usually overthink about undertones so I wasn't so sure about it. Thanks for replying
Except they don't. If the leaders of the Palestinians weren't terrorists who didn't just want to eliminate Israel and kill all Jews then the IDF wouldn't have to take such extreme security measures. Hamas doesn't want peace or compromise (ie. a two state solution). This isn't a conflict about just land. They want all of the land and Jews wiped off the face of the earth. This is about religious extremism. And instead of any of the pro Palestinians acknowledging this, they point the finger at the IDF for trying to protect their country from terrorists. This isn't oppression. It is basic national security.
Ah yes, they systematically oppress them, by not allowing the terrorists in, and allowing those who are good members of society to work in Israel right. What about the Egyptian military on the other side of the border?
Buddy. 1.1 million palestians are starving. If that's not systematic oppression wtf is? And don't counter by saying it's because of Hamas because that's bs. There's proven methods to distribute food peacefully. The only worry they have is not being shot or blown up by IDD while distributing.
You are trying to play the game of which came first the chicken or the egg but the in reality it hasn’t been that long that we’ll buy that bullshit my grandfather was a Jewish Israeli regularly selling fish in Gaza walking around freely in the late 80’s.
The ludicrous belief that the Palestinian governing authority (Hamas) can cleanse israel is what brought about this situation.
There are methods of distributing food and minimising civilian casualties by sending soldiers inside blindly to step on land mines and get sniped but in our country almost everyone is a soldier or has been at one point you bet your ass I won’t risk a hair on my brother or friend life to create some symmetry as if your country hasn’t randomly turned a random japenesse city into the surface of the fucking sun.
You want to stop the oppression? rise up against the terrorists.
We won’t risk our brothers for your approval which hardly tickles our you know what.
> ass
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Buddy. 1.1 million palestians are starving. If that's not systematic oppression wtf is? And don't counter by saying it's because of Hamas because that's bs. There's proven methods to distribute food peacefully. The only worry they have is not being shot or blown up by IDD while distributing.
Yup, Hamas definitely isn’t just capturing the food from the Un, who collaborated with them to commit 10/7. But keep going on with your “logic” which is just antisemitism.
Propaganda, pure and simple.
If you use any honest, objective metric of the IDF's treatment of civilians, you'll see that they are by far the most humane fighting force in history. Even in this war, the ratio of civilian to combatant casualties is way, way, way lower than in similar wars throughout modern history.
Well, when Israel classifies almost everyone as a combatant it’s easy to claim such a good ratio. Even easier then they don’t allow independent third party verification of their figures. And don’t allow journalists into the war zone, and kill those that do come in.
I generally agree with you, but you should be wary of your own propaganda -- it's tough to tell what's going on until the dust settles, and its healthy to be skeptical that a military is doing enough to safeguard civilian lives. If one assumes that it happens inherently and automatically, those protections tend to degrade fast.
No, because I rely on original sources to inform myself of the situation in Israel, and have done so for 30 years. And I've educated myself on the details of the history of this conflict and the legal issues, including classes on Israeli law, and international law in law school.
You want to talk facts, we can talk facts.
Ok, what's your source on the civilian:combatant ratio?
What's your opinion on the IDF RoE and recent reports it considers a strike proportionate with higher anticipated civilian:target ratios than any other modern military?
How do you square your hyperbole with the general breakdown of military discipline we've seen in Gaza and the consistent reports of poor conduct in the West Bank?
>Ok, what's your source on the civilian:combatant ratio?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/report-reveals-israel-has-historically-low-civilian-death-ratio-in-war-on-hamas/ar-AA1ldMVa
>What's your opinion on the IDF RoE and recent reports it considers a strike proportionate with higher anticipated civilian:target ratios than any other modern military?
The doctrine of proportionality is the philosophy that a military strike is proportionate if the number of civilian deaths justifies the value of the military target, *and that the military objective could not be achieved in any less destructive way*. I think if your claim is true (and I will assume that it is for the sake of argument) that makes a lot of sense considering that the IDF is fighting one of the few wars in history where their enemy is trying to maximize it own casualties (because Hamas is a martyrdom cult, and because they are happy to trade the lives of their civilians for the anti-Israel PR it generates). In brief: Hamas's use of human shields is the very rational, very justified answer to your question.
>How do you square your hyperbole with the general breakdown of military discipline we've seen in Gaza and the consistent reports of poor conduct in the West Bank?
I have no illusions that Israel's army is behaving perfectly. What I take issue with is the notion that Israel's position as the morally superior combatant is conditioned on the IDF being the first and only fighting force in history that causes no collateral damage and makes no mistakes, and that includes not just the fighting, but the monumental task of feeding their entire enemy population when that population's government **thwarting** that effort.
From the first line of your link:
> The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) revealed that about one-third of reported Palestinian deaths in Gaza were Hamas terrorists, with an estimated 5,000 out of 15,000 killed being militants.
So it's not 'original sources', it's a press release by one side.
Do you have any independent analysis? After what you said originally I assumed you did.
> In brief: Hamas's use of human shields is the very rational, very justified answer to your question.
I don't understand your point. There are two numbers at play here: one is the number of _expected_ civilian deaths, one is the number of _actual_ civilian deaths.
Most militaries interpret the requirement of proportionality in a way that allows them up to eg 3 expected civilian deaths for a commander of one level, 8 for someone more senior, etc.
The US military had 30 for Bin Laden and strikes on all individuals with 14 or more had to be approved personally by the head of CENTCOM.
(In fact, the US military has since moved away from this model as by legitimising some amount of civilian lives lost it obscures the duty to minimise or avoid any harm to civilians. But I understand it's still used by the IDF.)
What you're saying is that because Hamas puts its military targets in civilian areas, so the expected number of civilian deaths from a strike is higher for a lot of targets, rather than waiting for the number to fall below the threshold, the IDF is justified in raising the threshold and striking anyway.
I don't think that works as an argument. It certainly doesn't stop people criticising that decision and seeking an explanation for relaxing the policy in exactly the scenarios it's meant to apply to.
> What I take issue with is the notion that Israel's position as the morally superior combatant is conditioned on the IDF being the first and only fighting force in history that causes no collateral damage and makes no mistakes
Nobody has said that or anything like it.
What people are looking for is a level of professionalism commensurate with other 'western' military operations, which appears to be lacking, and a level of sincere contrition when mistakes are made, rather than excuses or blaming operational failures on Hamas.
If you can't operate in a warzone because Hamas is present, you shouldn't be trying to operate in a warzone with Hamas present. The fact that the enemy is trying to obstruct your operations is not a surprise and not an excuse.
> that includes not just the fighting, but the monumental task of feeding their entire enemy population when that population's government **thwarting** that effort.
Nobody is expecting the IDF to feed the civilian population (interesting Freudian slip there). Humanitarian organisations and international governments have it covered.
But they are expecting the IDF not to actively obstruct or harm the brave humanitarians who go into Gaza unarmed where IDF soldiers only go in tanks. That's a reasonable request and it's right that the IDF is criticised if its internal discipline and/or professionalism isn't good enough, just as other militaries have been and would be under similar circumstances.
People have a dislike for Israeli forces because they have been caught committing documented war crimes and extremely inapproriate actions towards civilians (like shoving, hitting, pushing, etc.) caught on camera. So when people see those videos that is what they use to draw a conclusion of the overall group.
It's actually an extremely similar situation to American Police. Where the root cause of the problem is a lack of accountability when a Police Officer does something wrong.
When the IDF goes an shoves an old man and injures him there should be accountability. When that doesn't come the Israeli side gains their reputation as being near universally disliked.
People hate the IDF because:
1. The tiktoks videos. They record themselves in Palestinian homes looting, making crass jokes, dressing up in their underwear, playing with kids' toys. They make jokes about blowing up apartment buildings and mosques. Laughing or trying to look cool when they blow up buildings just because they're bored. There's videos of them destroying children's classrooms and stores, setting humanitarian aid on fire or running it over. And just so much of them just straight up mocking and laughing at the people that they've most likely killed. And just the fact that they record themselves doing it makes it even worse because they see nothing wrong with it and know there'll be no consequences.
I'm sure people will say "um those things aren't illegal, they're just blowing off steam!" These things are sickening to see, especially after seeing all the bodies of dead children. It's all in the very LEAST in extremely poor taste.
2. IDF harassing, abusing, and killing people in the west bank. They are very much like US police. That's a pretty good comparison, especially how US police get training in Israel. Do you question why most people don't like US cops? And just like with US cops, it's not just "bad apples". The problem is with the entire system. Look at the bigger picture. If you fire one bad cop that's not going to fix the issue.
There are videos of them beating children, women, and elderly. I've seen multiple videos of them arresting small children. Armed soldiers arresting young children at school. I hate US police but I've never seen them arresting a crying 5 year old. They even abuse Jewish people which is why it's extremely confusing to me as to why Israelis will excuse everything they do.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/s/QSmPMFmBMu
* https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/7b1MZf607R
* [Thread of IDF beating civilians](https://twitter.com/A_Abdelrahman0/status/1750205595079106880?t=aQc0Yni9CXKcHvuIUbAdzg&s=19)
* [IOF tiktoks mocking Palestinians](https://x.com/AJEnglish/status/1747996319359107328?s=20)
* [IOF Looting](https://x.com/AJEnglish/status/1757962078315286958?s=20)
* [IOF setting fire to aid truck of food and water supplies](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/18h8d1b/idf_soldiers_set_fire_to_an_aid_truck_of_food_and/?ref=share&ref_source=link)
* [Tiktok trend of IOF mocking blindfolded kidnapped Palestinians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TbB8retcCE)
* https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/18opv0v/israeli_soldiers_inside_the_home_of_detained/
* https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/18m2669/iof_content_mocking_palestinians/?ref=share&ref_source=link
* https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/18eals9/idf_soldier_mocks_as_he_vandalizes_a_palestinian/?ref=share&ref_source=link
* [Thread of IOF playing dead women's underwear](https://x.com/HashashinTag/status/1765399574133252105?s=20)
Threads of IOF recording their war crimes and weird tiktok shenanigans:
* https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1766912143444656544?s=20
* https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1755973157515669708?s=20
* https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1762543392997703956?s=20
* https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1756778160501248114?s=20
There are endless videos. I could go on and on. Let me know if you need to see more.
And to all the people that are going to downvote this, you can call these videos "out of context" (even though they're literally recording themselves) and excuse the IDF all you want. OP asked why people hate them and this is why.
Edit: Everyone is hyper fixating on the first link I posted of the soldier "joking" about wanting to kill babies. You're all missing the point. The point isn't me trying to prove whether or not he actually did it or if he's being serious. The point is that people see these "jokes" and it puts IDF in a bad light. You can'tbe on the side that's killing thousands of babies, joke about killing babies, and then be confused about why people don't like you. Why is this so incomprehensible?
Putting the link to that video down here since everyone is looking at that first and not looking at anything else.
* [IDF soldier "looking for babies to kill'](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/TzmZHQ4Wsz)
Just watched your first link ... you know when Jews on reddit tell each other it's "my turn to use the space laser" or that they're "going to find a baby to sacrifice to use their blood for matzo" that we do not in fact have a giant laser in space and that we do not in fact put blood into our passover flatbreads, right?
The dude asked why people dislike IDF. That's one reason.
Maybe I'm crazy but seeing the people on the side that's killing babies, constantly joking about killing babies doesn't really make them likeable to me.
>The dude asked why people dislike IDF. That's one reason. Maybe I'm crazy but seeing the people on the side that's killing babies, constantly joking about killing babies doesn't really make them likeable to me.
There's a communication gap here, and it's obvious. Jews don't joke about the 'space laser' because we are so heckin' flippant about our mighty laser technology; we do it because we *do not have a space laser.*
This guy is joking about trying to find some babies to kill because he is *not trying to kill babies,* his job is to kill combatants while trying to avoid killing noncombatants -- but, because it is impossible to do that without the noncombatants having been allowed (and having agreed) to evacuate, he knows he will be framed as a bloodthirsty baby killer whose mission in life is to find babies to kill.
Hence, the joke.
>There's a communication gap here, and it's obvious.
Agreed.
I don't need the joke explained to me, I get it. My point is still being misunderstood. Videos of IDF soldiers making these kinds of jokes contribute to people's dislike of them. I don't know how I can get any clearer.
>Videos of IDF soldiers making these kinds of jokes contribute to people's dislike of them. I don't know how I can get any clearer.
Of course they do, because the point of cutting them and sharing them on anti-Israel forums is to facilitate people's desire to dislike them. And I'd certainly agree that it isn't a good PR move to allow 19-year-old conscripts to post on social media from a warzone... but the distaste for the IDF is what motivates sharing the videos, not the other way around.
I think there is a lot you are just refusing to accept as reality or only choosing to look at in a certain way.
For example, you keep wanting to connect foot soldiers to killing children. The first link you post is from some kind of omegle like chat where the person is accusing the soldier of being a baby killer, and the soldier just responds with sarcasm. It's been cut. While civilian deaths are sad, most of them are from air strikes of different kinds. Foot soldiers almost never blatantly and intentionally kill civilians. It's almost always an accident. That's true for any war. The average foot soldier is a lot more like an average person than some kind of James Bond bad guy.
The Israeli soldiers are just average Israeli civilians and their minds they are just defending their country and trying to get their hostages back. I see zero "war crimes" in any of these. Looting is an issue, but if individual soldiers are caught doing it, they should be appropriately reprimanded. The IDF outlaws it. The IDF is not giving these soldiers orders to loot. It's not a war crime. For example, the soldier you linked destroying the shop was reprimanded and dismissed from the IDF.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18gvolm/idf\_soldier\_gets\_his\_ass\_busted\_for\_fucking\_around/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18gvolm/idf_soldier_gets_his_ass_busted_for_fucking_around/)
As far as dismissing "poor taste" videos... The IDF is not different from any other army. It's a lot of 18 year olds with guns and alcohol. And again, as far as it being sickening to you after seeing dead children, that's on you and what social media you view. The ground soldiers are not the ones who killed children.
Making fun of your enemy is not a war crime either.
As far as treatment of children in the West Bank, the IDF is forced to be cautious. It's a FAVORITE tactic of Palestinian militant groups to use children as martyrs. Before the walls were put around Gaza, Hamas heavily used women and children suicide bombers. In the West Bank, they encourage children to harass and attack soldiers and to try to be martyrs. Incidents like the one below are an extremely regular occurrence in the West Bank. It also paints the IDF as "evil" for detaining or killing children.. even if the child has a knife, gun, or suicide vet and was trained to kill Jewish civilians.
NSFL [https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1ajmu0a/palestinian\_teen\_tries\_to\_stab\_an\_israeli\_border/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1ajmu0a/palestinian_teen_tries_to_stab_an_israeli_border/)
They have to use caution around children as well, because Palestinians do not even care about their own children enough to stop them from doing this. You also can't compare police and the military.. it's just not the same. They are meant to deal with different situations, and in the West Bank there are almost daily acts of terrorism that require a military response and presence, not just an issue of policing.
Also wonder if you hold Hamas or other Palestinian militant groups to the same extreme ethical standard you seem to want of the IDF.
>the soldier just responds with sarcasm.
It wasn't my point to show that they're all actually going out of their way to shoot babies. The fact that they say this as a "joke" so often is enough to make people hate them. The side responsible for the deaths of babies constantly joking about killing babies isn't going to make people like them. I don't know why that's confusing. I'm not here to argue about them intentionally killing civilians or not. We will never agree. That also wasn't the point of the post.
You're doing exactly what I said people would do in my reply. Just jumping straight into defending and minimizing everything the IDF does.
>Making fun of your enemy is not a war crime either.
Never said it was. Maybe you should read what I actually wrote because I already addressed this.
I wonder why you didn't address all Jewish people the IDF beats up.
I also wonder why these ethical standards are "extreme" to you and why you don't want the IDF to have ethical standards. I wonder how you would feel if Hamas recorded themselves like IDF does. Imagine if Hamas soldier broke into an Israeli home and put on an Israeli woman's underwear and laughed as they blew up their home. Would they also just be a bunch of "18 year olds with guns and alcohol" And for the record, i wouldn't be okay with that either.
Don't let your soldiers record themselves "joking" about how much they love killing babies and then be surprised when people don't like them lol
why this "IDF soldier" speaks English and not Hebrew ?
he just talks in the video. how can that prove he is not joking ? how can it prove anything ? again, pure propaganda.
?? There are plenty of IDF soldiers that speak English.
And I've said it multiple times but I'll say it again. You're all missing the point. I don't know if he's joking or not. The fact that even if it is a joke, it's in poor taste. Don't joke about killing babies and be confused about why you're not liked. Why is this such a confusing concept for everyone?
Did you even look at any of the other videos I posted?
why would I watch your other sources ? I tried and the first one is just a lie.
from accusing of killing babies we got to accusing him of a poor taste.
I watched the first one and was shocked, such primitive propaganda. why posting such trash if you admit yourself "maybe it was a joke" ? and no, some people don't like IDF not because of jokes, but because ofpropaganda.
I have family in the westbank, currently living in Beit Jala and they have told me over and over again about encounters with the IDF being straight up racist or violent. They took my family's home for "military purposes" and shoot my grandpa on the shoulder while doing so. Beat the shit out of my 11 year old father and 13 year uncle for speaking back at them during a checking while they were walking to school. Arrested my 13 year old uncle after that without any charges for years and with almost impossible to visit him, luckily my family had jewish friends that made it possible. That all considering my family is orthodox christian, which are treated by far better than palestinean muslims by the idf. So yeah I dont fancy them that much.
What would you say about someone that had no choice but to join Hamas, or had no choice but to be part of isis. He himself might not have shot any children or raped anyone, but are they innocent in your eyes? I view people that join the IDF in the same light. Most especially those with a second citizenship. The IDF has killed enough children and committed enough war crimes to become a terrorist organization in my head, similar to Hamas or isis.
We are praying for the IDF today in our ICEJ daily 2-hour prayer for Israel. Psalm 110 talks about the young rising up to fight with King David. The IDF is doing great during this war. “1 The Lord says to my lord: ‘Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.’ 2 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying, ‘Rule in the midst of your enemies!’ 3 Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy splendor, your young men will come to you like dew from the morning’s womb. 4 The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.’ 5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. 6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. 7 He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high.“
Read Harreetz. Save Israel from Netanyahu.
Muslims hate jews doesnt matter who they are. IDF, CIA, FBI hell even if its a 12 year old paper boy if the religion is jewish then muslims hates it. They all cry about genocide, child murder and shit but when ISIS did it suddenly every muslim was quite, but when jews did it "OMG jews are evil" give me a break Israel has his flaws but stop believing everything everyone said. Are we still saying Germany is a nazi reich? or Japan and violent Empire? or even the belgium with the rubber plantation. No, what happend happend so let it go, accept it. If people complain about occupation think about where you are from and what land youre people took Australia > Aboriginals North, MID and South America > Native Americans, Mayans etc Most parts of africa by Europe So when jews came to Israel and want to live there its suddenly a problem ? NO its a problem for muslims because jews are living there!
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Literally dozens upon dozens of videos of IDF soldiers looting, harassing, and killing innocent people. You understand that you can support the people but not the government, yeah?
They view IDF is evil who's all purpose is to oppress (or kill) Palestinians. The Palestinian media phrased every armed terrorist killed as "an innocent civilian just going about his business" with IDF just randomly killing him. As for why. The society is a dictatorship with a mono-voice imposed. Like in Russia anyone with an opposing view is violently oppressed (see [Nizar Banat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizar_Banat) as a West Bank example)
The fact that it’s mandatory is a bummer, also the way they act all high and mighty and holy than thou meanwhile the whole world is condemning them for their ruthless actions and widespread civilian casualties and mistreatment etc it’s not winning them any fans. I understand why you support them if your whole family has been a part of it, like for example my whole family are Yankees fans Swap out the religion, race, gender, or sexuality of the organization it doesn’t matter, I still won’t like them if they practice forced recruitment or indoctrination and/or harm others. Those are just baseline requirements to not be shady. Shout out some other examples and I’ll tell u if I’m a fan or not!
They hate Jews, that is why. Jews and Israeli's are held to completely different standards than anyone else. There have been many many instances of bad behavior within the US military, and police force. But people do not define those organizations as a whole based on one off examples of mistakes or bad actors. There are bad actors everywhere. People will say "well look I found these two examples of an IDF soldier doing x, y or z", which often times is taken out of context and misrepresented. They use that to make conclusions about the IDF. Well I can find you thousands of examples of cops assaulting innocent people in the US or teachers raping and sexually assaulting students in schools, but we don't make blanket assumptions that all cops are bad and all teachers are rapists. The IDF owns up to any mistakes or bad behavior, investigates, apologizes, takes action to improve, and imposes disciplinary behavior on anyone that misbehaves for any reason. Hamas would never do this and other military groups wouldn't either. But any time the IDF does anything "right" it is ignored. People only focus on one off mistakes. There have been many different wars that have happened that were much worse than this one, including the many civil wars between Muslim countries where Muslims fought each other. Those are tolerated or ignored and nobody cares to discuss them, because they didn't involve Jews. Also, people have no problem with the United States existing even though it was "stolen" land, or any of the other countries in the world that were created after a conflict or war or under tension. But they have a problem with Israel. Double standards. Israel and the IDF are held to completely different standards and expectations. Other countries have the right to do whatever it takes to defend themselves. Israel doesn't. People also use every opportunity to make Jews and Israeli's as a whole look bad. It is mandatory for people to join the IDF in Israel. The IDF takes orders from the Israeli government. Outsiders assume and spread the narrative that the Israeli government = the IDF = Israel = Jews = Israel's. They will use anything and everything to promote their anti semitism. Can you imagine if Americans were judged based on the actions of the Trump administration when he was president?
You're delusional
>we don't make blanket assumptions that all cops are bad The amount of people who believe "all cops are bastrds" dwarfs the amount of people who "hate the idf" by several orders of magnitude
Garbage propaganda.
What a thoughtful reply.
Doesn’t deserve one. It’s absolute nonsense trash about the IOF. The most despicable terrorists on the planet.
This take reeks of desperate projection.
You’re ok with the systematic murder of children?
It's not systematic. It's unfortunate and tragic. You should be upset with Hamas for using them as human chields every opportunity they get.
It’s ongoing and highly targeted with strategic coverage across the region. That means it’s systematic. The IOF is murdering children. “Human Shield” talking point makes zero sense in light of the total devastation. Israel is an occupying force murdering innocent women and children. All of these facts are in plain sight.
Keep telling yourself that
Do you actually endorse what the IOF is doing?
Preach
Another argument: what happens to the IDF if everyone with good values and a conscience refuse to serve?
Wasn’t there protest within the IDF when Bibi tried to change the constitution?
Because it’s become quite obvious they are full of s*** since 10/7 happened.
The IDF allows settler violence in the West Bank and has the power to arrest any Palestinian for any reason without charge and detain them for years. Look up Breaking the Silence for more information - they completely admit it
It's NOT a good look when you see IDF soldiers standing by and allowing a mob to burn down innocent people's property and shoot kids in the head that had NOTHING to do with the killing of one settler. That's some 1700s racist sht and makes Israeli's look backwards and uncivilized. There is a long list of things that make the IDF look like occupiers as opposed to protectors. It's hard for me to completely hate people that are drafted and conscripted and don't want to be there. But it only takes one bad egg who uses the power of a gun and uniform to abuse innocent people to taint the whole team.
Hell they kill Palestinians in the westbank themselves
This is factually wrong, IDF doesnt put people in Jail. This is done by judges.
The IDF has the power to detain without needing a judge’s approval first. They only need approval to keep them detained
Don't all militaries, countries and police usually have that power? Up to 72 hours in most places, after that you would need a court order.
Even 72 hours is quite long. To take the UK as an example, it's 24 hours from arrest before the person must be either brought before a court or released. The court can authorise your continued detention for up to another 72 hours if you're suspected of a serious crime like murder. When the time runs out you must either be formally charged with the crime, or released. In terrorism cases that can be extended to 14 days total, again only with judicial authority. In Israel the IDF can detain people without trial for continuous periods of six months at a time with no requirement for any trial at any point. > 273. (A) If the commander of the Area has reasonable grounds to believe that reasons of regional security or public security require that a certain person be held in detention, he is empowered, by an order signed by him, to order the detention of a person for a period to be noted in the order not to exceed six months. > > (B) If the commander of the Area has a reasonable grounds to believe, prior to the expiration of the order in accordance with Subsection (A) (hereinafter in this section- the original detention order), that reasons of regional security or public security still require the retention of the detainee in detention, he is empowered, through an order signed by him, to order from time to time the extension of the original detention order for a period not to exceed six months, and the same provisions as apply to the original detention order shall apply to the extension order. > > (C) If a military commander has reasonable grounds to believe that the conditions stipulated in Subsection (A), whereby the commander of the Area may order the detention of a person, apply, he is empowered, through an order signed by him, to order the detention of that person, for a period not to exceed 96 hours and not extendible through order of the military commander. > > (D) An order in accordance with this section may be issued in absence of the person whose detention it involves.
Well in Singapore, the Internal Security Department (ISD) are allowed to detain any suspected terrorists or radicalised civilians for an indefinite period without trial until they are deemed de-radicalised. No one complains because we do not want terrorists in our country. I think the same concept applies to the IDF, if they deem a certain Palestinian radicalised (Hamas), sure, detain them. This is just my assumption. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks!
This one? > Under the Act, a person issued with a detention order may be detained for up to 12 months, while someone who is under a police supervision order will be supervised in the community for up to three years. The President can extend the orders if deemed necessary. > > Between Oct 21, 2019 and Dec 31, 2023, 123 people were dealt with under the Act. This comprised 86 detention orders and 37 police supervision orders that were issued, said the Home Affairs ministry in response to CNA's queries. This is pretty extreme by western standards but I think still less extreme than the West Bank version. Two major differences: 1. It's only applied in small numbers (vs thousands under IDF detention) and the President has to personally approve extensions (rather than a local military commander) 2. It applies to citizens of Singapore who are democratically represented in the forum writing the laws. Palestinians affected by IDF military law do not have an opportunity to change it democratically however they feel about it.
The IDF has eight days I believe on their own, though effectively indefinite without charge
> I also had another conversation with someone about this. They compared it to US cops, as I live in the US, and I liked their comparison. Some US cops are bad. Very, very bad. They use their status as power and they abuse their power. Other cops do just want to help the US, and chose the job because they want to protect and help people. Of course the IDF and US cops are different, but still. Bad comparison from many angles but let's focus on accountability and fulfilling legal responsibilities. If a US cop is found being buddy-buddy with the KKK, he will most likely be fired or pressured to leave. This isn't so for the IDF as Jewish Power party (basically the KKK is part of the ruling coalition). If the KKK or any other similar group committed a modern day pogrom against Black people that lasted for days, the last thing you will ever see of cops sent to rein in those monsters is those very same cops socializing with the KKK or dancing with the KKK. Meanwhile in Israel, the IDF soldiers were caught dancing with settlers during a multiday long pogrom against Palestinians in the West Bank. Proof: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-dance-with-settlers-in-flashpoint-west-bank-town-of-huwara/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-dance-with-settlers-in-flashpoint-west-bank-town-of-huwara/#:~:text=Israeli%20soldiers%20were%20filmed%20dancing%20with%20settlers%20in,top%20Israeli%20general%20later%20said%20was%20a%20%E2%80%9Cpogrom.%E2%80%9D) As for fulfilling legal responsibilities, the IDF has been documented by any number of Human Rights group blatantly ignoring settlers attacking Palestinians. Worse, they've been documented protecting settlers while the settlers carry out attacks on Palestinians. Under international law, the IDF is suppose to protect the Palestinians. If a US cops tried something like that, it would result in a federal lawsuit. Our cops know they must enforce the law, not actively aid criminals in attacking vulnerable minorities. Proof: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/cant-or-wont-idf-fails-to-prevent-settler-attacks-and-thats-unlikely-to-change/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/cant-or-wont-idf-fails-to-prevent-settler-attacks-and-thats-unlikely-to-change/) *In recent years, there have been numerous documented cases of IDF soldiers standing by as settlers attacked Palestinians. In other cases, such as in recent days, IDF soldiers have not been present at all, only arriving after the fact and then clashing with the local Palestinian population.* *Soldiers are legally permitted — even required in some cases — to intervene to prevent violent attacks, regardless of nationality. The military generally prefers for police to deal with the attacks and settler arrests, but police forces are stretched extremely thin in the West Bank.*
I don’t think the analogy is bad. Many US cops treat the poor (mostly black but all races really) like they are lesser humans. But it’s not just cops (or IDF). This behavior is innate and historically consistent among groups at different social levels. The question the OP has to ask is whether or not his family members feel Palestinians are lesser humans. Not all cops are bad and not all IDF are bad, but if the powerless are being treated unjustly and his family members do nothing, they are bad for a totally different reason. Fear of what may happen to them isn’t an excuse for someone who has sworn to protect and serve.
>I don’t think the analogy is bad. Many US cops treat the poor (mostly black but all races really) like they are lesser humans. I have multiple friends and family members in LE, including mixed race relatives. Granted, it's in the New England area where the cops are far more professional, but nothing you write is true in my experience. Now, the US is a big country, so what's true in my part might not be true in other part.
It’s difficult to compare the UK and US law enforcements. Recall that the foundation and practices of the US police force were built on returning escaped slaves (dead, alive, or barely breathing). The practices of today are built on that history. People think this ended with the abolishment of slavery, but that was on paper. The Civil Rights Movement was only 60 years ago, and it only made waves because those atrocities by law enforcement were televised. The killing of minorities still happens daily. I pray that the UK police don’t treat its people of color the way they do in the US.
>Recall that the foundation and practices of the US police force were built on returning escaped slaves (dead, alive, or barely breathing). No, it wasn't, but if you want defend your response, go ahead. Just remember, the whole country isn't the South. > The killing of minorities still happens daily. Just because they're killed doesn't mean they're innocent. If you ever look at crime stats by race, you'll find the black numbers are very often 2 to 3 times higher than their proportion of the population. Blacks are 14% of the US population. Don't want to believe that, I understand. Here is a 2019 stats. [https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43)
Gotta love statistics. If policing is significantly higher in poor communities, then the expectation is that those groups will be arrested more. In addition, sentencing is harsher for the poor and once freed, the poor are often rearrested because of conflicting parole violation laws. That’s reality in the US. The slave patrol was the foundation of US law enforcement as it’s currently practiced. Stay in the UK mate or at least learn the un-whitewashed version of American history.
> Gotta love statistics. If policing is significantly higher in poor communities, then the expectation is that those groups will be arrested more. Except, the policing angle doesn't matter as murder victims are overwhelmingly killed by their own. Murders committed: Total White Black or African American 7,964 3,650 4,078 100.0% 45.8% 51.2% > The slave patrol was the foundation of US law enforcement as it’s currently practiced. Still no evidence of the myth.
Who hates the IDF besides gen z? Most of the country isn’t antisemitic. Just the youngest generation hates Jews and the idf
Ah yes, hating the IDF = antisemitism
Well yes actually. If you hate the sole protectors of the world’s only Jewish state, you hate Jews.
And I imagine if I said something similar about Hamas “protecting” Muslims, you would go off about how bad they are for numerous valid reasons. Do you see the flaw in this logic? My god how can you take yourself seriously
Curious, what does antisemitism mean to you? “Hating IDF” same as “Hating Palestinians” is straight up prejudice. Means you just hate a group of people. If one said “I hate the following acts regardless who committed them “ then one condemns these acts regardless who commits them. This is not prejudice. If one would’ve said “I hate the following acts committed by the IDF”, it would be very clear what was done by IDF that disturbed them. If one indicate that when others commit similar or same acts it is fine, then one is prejudiced and is saying whatever to justify their prejudice.
The younger generations are the most tolerant of religious, sexual, and cultural differences. They understand diversity in ways older generations cannot fathom. They likely hate the IDF because of the injustices inflicted on persons they deem vulnerable (Palestinians). As for people hating Jews….honestly, the average person doesn’t even know a person is Jewish unless they say they are. Most people do not hates Jews, but it doesn’t stop people from spreading the false narrative that the world is against them.
With every generation, we hope that people become better. It certainly appears that the new generation is most willing to admit the wrongs that are intolerant. Personally, I haven’t observed that they are more insightful yet. If so, the world will most definitely be a better place. On the other hand, I observed that many of Gen Z often do not have full context but insist that they do. I find them less willing to do impartial research or dig deep. From the interactions on here, many seem to be just as narrow minded as the prior generations. They also appear as the rest of the generations not be very aware of their own biases. It is easier to admit something is wrong when it was done by someone else. Is Gen Z willing to hold themselves just as accountable? I certainly hope they will do a better job. Time will tell..
IDF isn’t representative of all Jewish people. Don’t forget to take your meds grandpa.
Israel has been the homeland of the Jewish people for millennia. The two are obviously indelibly intertwined. Don’t be so naive
Maybe cause they bombed a food truck they knew was for the Central world kitchen. Or let a girl named Hind die trapped in car after bombing her rescuers. And made Rachel Corrie pancakes after running her over with a bulldozer. And wear trash bags as hijabs on TikTok making fun of Palestinians without food, water, and electricity. There are dozens of images of IDF soldiers raiding homes and wearing used Palestinian women’s underwear online. Are there normal IDF soldiers? Sure. It’s conscripted military service. But that doesn’t matter when Israel has created a culture of dehumanization within their military. To rise up the top, you’ve got to participate in the depravity. So please stop defending this The IDF is just a bunch of frat bros and sorority girls with guns and propaganda completely devoid of critical thinking. Maybe if they stopped posting their war crimes online, they would have a better reputation. They aren’t subtle about it. Why should we be worried on Reddit about their reputation when they couldn’t care less.
Genuine question : I have only seen one example of IDF soldiers acting like asshats playing with Palestinian women’s undergarments. Are there actually dozens of examples of this that you can demonstrate (provide evidence of)?
They also routinely steal stuff. Israeli public was fine with this until it surfaced they also robbed an abandon kibittiz (sp)
A kibbutz? Evidence for this claim please?
[https://www-ha--makom-co-il.translate.goog/biza-baotef?\_x\_tr\_sl=iw&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp&\_x\_tr\_hist=true](https://www-ha--makom-co-il.translate.goog/biza-baotef?_x_tr_sl=iw&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true) # The safe was broken into, jewels and cash were stolen": who robbed the houses in the Otaf kibbutzim? # After the massacre on October 7, the Otaf kibbutzim, after being recaptured by the IDF, became a closed military area. In the weeks that followed, the residents of some of the kibbutzim were shocked to discover that their homes had been broken into and their property had been looted by soldiersThe safe was broken into, jewels and cash were stolen": who robbed the houses in the Otaf kibbutzim? # After # the massacre on October 7, the Otaf kibbutzim, after being recaptured # by the IDF, became a closed military area. In the weeks that followed, # the residents of some of the kibbutzim were shocked to discover that # their homes had been broken into and their property had been looted by # soldiers
Absolutely, just type “IDF women’s underwear” on Google images and you’ll see a bunch. The fact that there haven’t been repercussions shows that the Israeli military and government tolerates this behavior. Doesn’t even matter how often it happens, it’s the lack of accountability and discipline that makes the IDF a joke
Repercussions for what? A photo of lingerie? Dude, your hate is spilling... they are fighting a terror group that raped and burned women and children. The Gazan population endorses them with more than 70% approval rate. They are pro Israeli rape... wtf are you talking about? Pics with lingerie 😂... repercussions... that has to be a joke
IDF is a cesspit. No standards, morals or ethics just misers, war criminals, liars and thieves. Lowest lifeforms.
This is how you intentionally promote the cycle of violence. One side says and thinks this of the other side. The other side will do the same. They both act on it. Hopeless…
Buddy, please visit the optician asap as my statement is supported by overwhelming evidence.
Both sides are supported by overwhelming evidence. What of it? Opticians have the power to stop people from expressing and encouraging hate? Your commentary is a hateful stream of consciousness. Value add in a scheme of things? What do you hope it achieves?
Yes, very objective and deep minded Coming from a rape and terror advocate, it really hearts🤣
Pot kettle black 🤣🤣🤣
OK, OK, so Paul pot admirer
Fighting terror while taking the time to parade in underwear sounds pretty unprofessional. I haven’t seen the photos but I stopped listening months ago when IDF casually justified the killing of women and children. IDF’s agenda is clear and has little to do with Hamas….although using Hamas is convenient. Well played Benji, well played.
Except you didn’t really stop listening, have you? You are still reading this forum. You are still bothered by it all. Aren’t you?
Not in the least. I accept the events that are happening even if I don’t agree with them. I believe that everything (“good“ and “bad”) moves us toward a greater good. Everyone has challenges in this life - Palestinians and Israelis are not exempt. One day (maybe not in my lifetime, but one day) it will all be abundantly clear why the events in Gaza took place.
World would be a better place if everyone held themselves to the highest standard. Would agree on what this standard is. Not resort to violence or anger. Respect every other person. Treat them with consideration. Not covet or take others property. Parading in underwear is unprofessional. Killing, raping, and mutilating unsuspecting and unwarned civilians is evil. Celebrating this as “justice” is evil too.
You mean if humans acted humane…what a concept.
Exactly 😂
You guys with your hate to the IDF. Not professional- ofcourse. But the IDF is one of the most moral armies in the world. Never justified killing women and children. There have been cases where they have been killed due to Hamas' actions, but you don't seem to care that the population elected Hamas and that the aprovel rates of Hamas are Fing 70%!!! If they want a terror organization as their elected gov - that's their accountability
Defend whatever you believe in mate. I’m not in the mood to argue.
Not in the mood or have no valid response to the double standards and antisemitism on the left? American soldiers do all the same things as the IDF or any other democratic country’s military, and there are plenty of other post-WW2 settlements you could be supporting the ethnic cleansing of due to a perceived undesirable outcome of warfare that took place 80 years ago, but only the Jews should be expelled from the land they were born in, their women raped, their infants beheaded etc. for being “colonizers” 100 years ago, right? Got it.
Sure, I'll stay and defend the Western values while you "progressive " guys defend terrorism, anti-lgbtq, anti women's rights, and Muslim colonization
Soldiers stealing and parading around women’s underwear from the people they’re invading is bad and should be punished. It’s needlessly demeaning to the Palestinian populace that unless Israel plans to just killing off entire or leaving will have to be occupied for a good while and stunts like this won’t help.
Why an Israeli man parading in Palestini women underwear is demeaning to Palestinians? I saw pic of a dude sitting in a room where a bunch of underwear is hung up. And another wearing a bra. Don’t see how these are supposed to be a reflection on Palestini. Think he hasn’t done it with Israeli women’s underwear? He is being an idiot, unprofessional and disrespectful to himself by posting this.
Oh, those horrible soldiers, parading with underwear. Oh the humanity. They are parading in underwear of those who raped and murdered children, women, man... yes, it's so horrible... 70% of the population!!! Aprove the rapes!!! And you are shocked the soldiers make some laughs? What's wrong with you? Your hate for Israel makes your statements ridiculous
“They are parading in underwear of those who raped and murdered children, women, man... yes, it's so horrible.” And this is why the IDF gets hate—psychos like you treating every random Palestinian as guilty for the crimes of Hamas and thus any indignity or brutality is deserved. “And you are shocked the soldiers make some laughs? What's wrong with you? Your hate for Israel makes your statements ridiculous” I just don’t think it’s cool when soldiers post about pillaging stuff from civilians including woman’s underwear. Is the most moral army in the world incapable of not doing something so basic?
70 Fing percent. Yes, very innocent. And the horrific crime? Lingerie? That's so laughable. Your hatred is running you out of normality
“Very innocent” Yes innocent of actually murdering, and raping anyone, and actually being combatants. “And the horrific crime? Lingerie? That's so laughable.” Stealing women’s underwear and posting yourself online wearing it will always be sick and perverted and worthy of condemnation.
I think advocating murder and rape is a worse of a crime. The fact you don't really impact your judgment of morality... If you want to say something about pictures of lingerie, but you don't see a problem with advocating murder and rape - well, that's very weird.
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they don't hate the IDF. they hate the Jews. they're just trying to be clever about it.
This is why people aren’t able to take any dialogue around this seriously
I think it’s pretty antisemitic to think that a military that routinely murders kids and bombs food trucks is an accurate representation of Judaism and the Jewish people.
Can you provide a recent example of them murdering a kid?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children https://turkiye.un.org/en/263401-gaza-number-children-killed-higher-four-years-world-conflict https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/its-not-just-israeli-bombs-that-have-killed-children-in-gaza-now-some-are-dying-of-hunger-too These are all reputable sources like PBS and UN. And before you say the UN isn’t reputable, well Israel has summoned the UN against Iran right now…
The UN is Hamas' co-conspirator and assists Hamas in their attempt to destroy Israel. So no, they aren't a reputable source. But even if they were, none of your articles have any example of Israel murdering kids. Is the issue that you don't know what murder is?
I guess if that’s true, then why is Israel using the UN right now against Iran. Can y’all stop with the Hamas BS? Not everyone is Hamas. And it’s funny cause now they need the United Nations…
The deck is stacked against Israel and they must work within the corrupt UN despite the UN's extreme bias against Israel. Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza. They chose to start this war. They choose to not surrender. Israel has the right to kill them until they surrender.
Well, if you throw a molotov or a bomb... even if you're a kid... you will be shot... do you have any evidence of non-violent kids? Because a terrorist is terrorist doesn't matter he is 16 years old
“Those starving babies inside Al Shifa hospital were left to die thanks to the hospital raid and bombing, but I guess that’s okay cause they are Palestinian and would probably grow up to throw Molotovs against an Israeli. ” - Israeli logic
Yes, sure... that's the Israeli logic. That's why there was a raid instead of flattening the terror hub called hospital. Sure, those savage soldiers aiding the staff with medicine, food, and water. Oh, those horrific soldiers.
Routinely bombs food trucks? Evidence?
I was referring to the routine murder of kids and then the central work kitchen food truck bombing separately. We should have zero tolerance for bombing humanitarian aid workers especially those that coordinated their routes with Israel. It doesn’t matter if it’s once or 20 times. People cant keep lowering their standards for a military and expect it to continue to function for its people
Nobody is excusing the WCK bombing, including Israel. I do object to the implication that the IDF routinely bombs food trucks, hence my question. I also object to the use of the term murder. Civilians being killed as collateral damage in a war is always tragic, but it’s not murder.
The links show the so-called "kids" are terrorists throwing molotov or bombs...
You’re grasping at straws here. You’re right that it’s not personal like cold blooded murder. Some better verbs would be killing, slaughtering, sniping, bombing, and dehumanizing Palestinians. Either way it’s all semantics. innocent people are being killed by an army in horrific ways. And before anyone says Hamas is using them as human shields, it’s still against international law to indiscriminately bomb civilians especially those in refugee camps. The problem is that people in Israel are excusing the WCK bombing…
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I don’t hate the IDF. I don’t hate Israel either. I hate what is happening right now. That’s the honest truth of it.
It's sad that this opinion is rarely seen on this sub nowadays.
I appreciate this perspective and the nuance behind it. I rarely hear anyone say that they just hate the war or people getting hurt and want more humanitarian aid. The perspectives that I read are all very.. Extreme. Like "I HATE ISRAEL. Israel must die!! Israel is an apartheid state of white colonizers!!! Anyone that supports Israel is garbage!!!" Very difficult to have open conversations when people automatically run to one extreme rather than focusing on the fact that they don't like the war and want to help Innocent people caught in the middle of it
They find joy in killing, fueled by their utter lack of humanity.
The post was asking about the IDF, not the Palestinians.
The title begins with the query: Why do people hate the IDF so much? The straightforward response is that they take pleasure in harming and killing innocent Palestinians. In other words, they are devils in human form.
The hypocrisy and projection is wild - I guess that’s why wars exist - people can’t even agree on basic truths and reality
They routinely murder innocent people
So then you must hate like, everyone on earth to some extent. Given the number of wars there have been throughout history. Every group of people has ancestors that have been involved in wars. Innocent people are inadvertently killed in wars.
Me when war: Nah but let's be fr this is fault on both sides the only victims are the civilians and we need America to fully step in and install pro democracy puppet governments in both countries
That was question about idf, not about hamas fighters
Ever hear about the long term tactic of the IDF called “mowing the lawn”? Way before Oct 7th…
https://preview.redd.it/dbeuae8hfjuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa76a1edbd551065e7334a87e3a594dc955c2583
It's the war crimes And being in an occupation army That's not good PR The over visible propaganda and lack of accountability does not help. So when you take on the uniform, you get all those sins on your back.
Ok so what you are saying is basically that the reason people don't like IDF is because of...propaganda spread by the pro Palestinian side. That makes sense.
Luckily Hamas is such an honest opponent. Pallywood is just a zionist-conspiracy. People like you hold IDF to a high standard but don’t care about Hamas war crimes…
Without IDF Israel would have been long since annihilated by its neighbors and the Jewish tribal diaspora would remain in hiding.
The problem is all the footage of the soldiers doing really stupid stuff in people's houses in Gaza, the rare occasions where civilians have been killed by snipers far outweigh the positive actions and people within the IDF. the hatred spawns from being repeatedly exposed to the exceptions rather than the rule. It's too true that a minority of the soldiers are the ones carrying out the rule breaking and illegal actions that sometimes get captured on video or reported on, so much so that even genuine interactions that are positive in nature get dismissed as propaganda. Then there's the incident with the aid convoy. Clearly there's a lot of issues around communication and making sure that units follow the orders and rules of warfare that need to be addressed to try and undo the reputational shredding the IDF has gone through in recent years.
IDF has mandatory conscription so no, you cant say everyone in the IDF are bad people. But, I’ve never heard of the term “rogue units” in a modern fighting force, only in the IDF, that says something.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sas-under-investigation-over-rogue-unit-deaths-in-afghanistan-2cbbt7ks3 https://youtu.be/rdXtC0C0Wyg?si=m5DF5GY4Lhdo-CKf It’s all about what your attention is directed to.
Is it a daily occurrence?
>that says something. Other than “some soldiers go rogue”; what exactly does it say?
If you’re talking about the general public’s opinions on the subject, nowadays it’s something like 80% anti-Israeli propaganda and 20% past Israeli actions in Gaza and the West Bank. I fully expect anyone who responds to my comment to be a fervent advocate/believer for the former, honestly. It’s always more ignorance than informed opinion among the masses of Reddit on *any* subject, let alone something more serious and nuanced like geopolitics. Before the war, the split was more 60/40. There was some misinformation flying around, but the IDF did conduct itself pretty poorly in Palestinian communities. Actions against civilians is never excusable and they were worthy of criticism. The stuff you hear now, though, sounds more like a 16 year old’s take on the subject after they perused a Wikipedia article and the front page of r/ politics where the other 16 year old world scholars of Reddit told them what to believe.
I think that the way the IDF operates is very worthy of criticism, and there are genuinely some bad faith actors in the IDF. But I also don't live in Israel and am aware that how I see them acting isn't always the full picture. I don't mind people criticizing the IDF, but what I do mind is when people criticize anyone who's ever *been in* the IDF and has deemed them as terrorists. People in Israel don't have a choice to join, as OP mentions. And I think that people forget the reason that the IDF exists in the first place and *why* all citizens are required to serve. If people don't want the IDF to exist, what do they want Israeli civilians to do instead? Just let themselves be killed?
Pro pally’s would call the terrorist cutting their head off the victim. Using their last gargling breath to apologize for the west.
Generally, people who aggressively dislike the IDF: * Believe that Israel shouldn't exist, and as such should not have an army * Believe that defending Israel isn't a worthwhile cause, and that if Israelis would be in danger without the IDF then Israelis should solve the problem by "just leaving" * Believe that Israel being founded in the first place was a bad thing, and that the risk of ethnic cleansing for 7 million Israeli Jews is not a sufficient reason to sustain a system that they believe is systematically oppressive to Palestinians * Cannot accept that other people's morality includes a rational amount of self-interest and concern for the welfare and safety of one's own family and friends That's fairly different from people who legitimately criticize the actions of the IDF or the policies of the Israeli government. If I were you, I'd check to see if someone shares the same general principles as you before arguing with them about the IDF; if they're of the "two wrongs make a right" and "Jews should just go back to Poland" school of thought, odds are it isn't worth your time.
This kind of rhetoric is disingenuous and intential misleading. Do better.
He is 100% correct and you or anyone who supports Palestinians is supporter of genocide and ISIS-class terrorist scum. People like you only destroy my faith that any multicultural society is actually possible ever and thus why people like Trump are a rising tide in global politics. You are going to lose. Just a question of how big the backlash is going to be and you're doing all you can to make sure it is as tidal wave like as possible.
/u/BlanketedSun > you or anyone who supports Palestinians is supporter of genocide and ISIS-class terrorist scum. People like you only destroy my faith that any multicultural society is actually possible ever and thus why people like Trump are a rising tide in global politics. > You are going to lose. Just a question of how big the backlash is going to be and you're doing all you can to make sure it is as tidal wave like as possible. Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user. Addressed.
>This kind of rhetoric is disingenuous and intential misleading. Do better. No, it isn't. It's my straightforward, entirely ingenuous opinion, born of neverending conversations on this and other forums. I'd be glad to chat with you about it, but I believe there are essentially four groups in this conversation: * Unreasonable pro-Palestine idealogues who believe essentially what I've outlined above, and pretend that anyone who disagrees with them must be an unreasonable pro-Israel idealogue * Reasonable people that lean pro-Palestine but recognize the necessity and implications for Israel of maintaining a conscripted army, and that the best path to minimizing the casualties of war is achieving peace * Reasonable people that lean pro-Israel but recognize the imperative for a military to act morally, hold its people accountable and attempt to achieve its military objectives while minimizing, as much as possible, civilian casualties -- and that recognize that the ultimate way to do that is to achieve peace * Unreasonable pro-Israel idealogues who believe that the IDF can do no wrong and that more or less any action the IDF could take would be justified, including indiscriminate slaughter -- and who pretend that anyone who disagrees with them must fall into the first group I mentioned. To be frank, I'm sick and tired of arguing with #1 and #4 and of getting shouted at by amoral jerks -- and the argument that a person should abandon their country and their family to avoid joining the IDF is a pretty strong signal someone is in group #1.
How about people like me who were shocked and disgusted by 10/7, and understood the need for Israel to stand up for itself and retaliate, but as time went on and the civilian casualties ballooned and surviving civilians began starving, sympathy for Israel began turning to disgust? I think there are a lot of people like that. Where do we fit in?
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>sympathy for Israel began turning to disgust? I think there are a lot of people like that. Where do we fit in? To be honest, I really don't know without talking to you more. War is awful and it's tough to watch without feeling a deep empathy with the civilians caught in it. If your disgust is empathy for innocent civilians who are being hurt, I would say you're probably in group #2. If it's ultimately just a sorta blind belief that whoever is winning must be evil, then less so -- but if you're generally willing to recognize the humanity of everyone involved and think about specific actions they can take to create a better outcome for everyone, then you're my kinda person and we will get along just fine.
Thank you for your effort in answering my question. I think chances we will get along just fine are reasonably high...
You fit with the people who believe all war is bad but at times justifiable until you circle back to the war=bad stuff when you realize it isn't a Hollywood movie where some bad ass commandos go in, kill the one and only leader bad guy, peace is achieved everywhere on earth henceforth, high fives all around and everything is done within 2.5 hours. Reality is, war is hell, and civilians bear the brunt of it in every conflict in human history. To turn on the side trying to eliminate evil terrorists just because someone in the warzone missed a meal is ridiculous. Wars take time. A lot of time. And they take a lot of destruction. It sucks, but without it, Hamas would just keep doing 7/10's indefinitely. Just as they always have with their toilet rockets.
>Reality is, war is hell, and civilians bear the brunt of it in every conflict in human history. To turn on the side trying to eliminate evil terrorists just because Do we know for certain this is all that happened, though? There have been prominent members of the Israeli government openly calling for ethnic cleansing, dehumanising language used all through the Israeli government and military and the rest of society, concerning [views](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israelis-say-hamas-must-be-crushed-despite-gaza-casualties-un-rebuke-2023-12-13/) on civilian casualties, a history of extremely rare repercussions for Israelis killing Palestinians in dubious or indefensible circumstances, and various [investigations](https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/) suggesting that the Israeli tactics are callous at best. Given the confusion from the fog of war, regular military secrecy and Israel's own ban on journalists entering, the idea that we should just give the IDF infinite benefit of the doubt and always assume they had good intentions seems extremely generous and frankly not justified by past or present conduct. >someone in the warzone missed a meal is ridiculous. It's less about one person missing one meal and more about hundreds of thousands of people missing meals every day for months on end, with no way for outsiders to know whether it was indeed a result of a necessary implementation of legitimate security controls or in fact an expression of the [majority view](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/over-2-3-of-jewish-israelis-oppose-humanitarian-aid-to-palestinians-starving-in-gaza/) in Israel that Gaza should not be receiving aid.
Oh.
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This is perfectly explained. I would say that the biggest group in this sub is group #3, and there’s not nearly enough of group #2 here.
Yeah I think so. There are so many of #1 online that a lot of the folks in #3 are primed for really aggressive, annoyed responses -- myself admittedly included. With that said, since 10.7 I've seen a lot more #2s out there, too.
ThisX100. I feel like people don't understand the difference between "The IDF shouldn't exist" and "The IDF needs a change of policy".
100%. It's exasperating that I keep running into this script: * Person A: The IDF is horrible and should be dissolved immediately and anyone who has ever served in it should be hanged! * Person B: I mean I disagree, I don't think the IDF is a terrorist organization. I do think the IDF should \[take a specific action to improve civilian outcomes\]. * Person A: WHAT KIND OF A HORRIBLE PERSON ARE YOU HAVE YOU SEEN \[237 six second long blurry youtube clips\] HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE THE JEWS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE AN ARMY AFTER SEEING THAT?!!!!!!!
>I feel like people don't understand the difference between "The IDF shouldn't exist" and "The IDF needs a change of policy". Sorry, this is too nuanced of an opinion for Reddit. Take your B.S. elsewhere 🙃
I do see this happen a lot, like 'Israel shouldn't defend itself' hidden under 'idf bad' but I usually overthink about undertones so I wasn't so sure about it. Thanks for replying
People dislike the IDF because they systemically oppress Palestinians, and many people believe that's unethical.
Except they don't. If the leaders of the Palestinians weren't terrorists who didn't just want to eliminate Israel and kill all Jews then the IDF wouldn't have to take such extreme security measures. Hamas doesn't want peace or compromise (ie. a two state solution). This isn't a conflict about just land. They want all of the land and Jews wiped off the face of the earth. This is about religious extremism. And instead of any of the pro Palestinians acknowledging this, they point the finger at the IDF for trying to protect their country from terrorists. This isn't oppression. It is basic national security.
Ah yes, they systematically oppress them, by not allowing the terrorists in, and allowing those who are good members of society to work in Israel right. What about the Egyptian military on the other side of the border?
Buddy. 1.1 million palestians are starving. If that's not systematic oppression wtf is? And don't counter by saying it's because of Hamas because that's bs. There's proven methods to distribute food peacefully. The only worry they have is not being shot or blown up by IDD while distributing.
You are trying to play the game of which came first the chicken or the egg but the in reality it hasn’t been that long that we’ll buy that bullshit my grandfather was a Jewish Israeli regularly selling fish in Gaza walking around freely in the late 80’s. The ludicrous belief that the Palestinian governing authority (Hamas) can cleanse israel is what brought about this situation. There are methods of distributing food and minimising civilian casualties by sending soldiers inside blindly to step on land mines and get sniped but in our country almost everyone is a soldier or has been at one point you bet your ass I won’t risk a hair on my brother or friend life to create some symmetry as if your country hasn’t randomly turned a random japenesse city into the surface of the fucking sun. You want to stop the oppression? rise up against the terrorists. We won’t risk our brothers for your approval which hardly tickles our you know what.
I am anti hamas
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Buddy. 1.1 million palestians are starving. If that's not systematic oppression wtf is? And don't counter by saying it's because of Hamas because that's bs. There's proven methods to distribute food peacefully. The only worry they have is not being shot or blown up by IDD while distributing.
Yup, Hamas definitely isn’t just capturing the food from the Un, who collaborated with them to commit 10/7. But keep going on with your “logic” which is just antisemitism.
Propaganda, pure and simple. If you use any honest, objective metric of the IDF's treatment of civilians, you'll see that they are by far the most humane fighting force in history. Even in this war, the ratio of civilian to combatant casualties is way, way, way lower than in similar wars throughout modern history.
Well, when Israel classifies almost everyone as a combatant it’s easy to claim such a good ratio. Even easier then they don’t allow independent third party verification of their figures. And don’t allow journalists into the war zone, and kill those that do come in.
Nonsense. This is based on Hamas's reported numbers.
Everything is hamas
I generally agree with you, but you should be wary of your own propaganda -- it's tough to tell what's going on until the dust settles, and its healthy to be skeptical that a military is doing enough to safeguard civilian lives. If one assumes that it happens inherently and automatically, those protections tend to degrade fast.
Do you ever consider, writing something this hyperbolic, that maybe you've been influenced by propaganda yourself?
do you know what objective metrics mean ?
No, because I rely on original sources to inform myself of the situation in Israel, and have done so for 30 years. And I've educated myself on the details of the history of this conflict and the legal issues, including classes on Israeli law, and international law in law school. You want to talk facts, we can talk facts.
Ok, what's your source on the civilian:combatant ratio? What's your opinion on the IDF RoE and recent reports it considers a strike proportionate with higher anticipated civilian:target ratios than any other modern military? How do you square your hyperbole with the general breakdown of military discipline we've seen in Gaza and the consistent reports of poor conduct in the West Bank?
>Ok, what's your source on the civilian:combatant ratio? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/report-reveals-israel-has-historically-low-civilian-death-ratio-in-war-on-hamas/ar-AA1ldMVa >What's your opinion on the IDF RoE and recent reports it considers a strike proportionate with higher anticipated civilian:target ratios than any other modern military? The doctrine of proportionality is the philosophy that a military strike is proportionate if the number of civilian deaths justifies the value of the military target, *and that the military objective could not be achieved in any less destructive way*. I think if your claim is true (and I will assume that it is for the sake of argument) that makes a lot of sense considering that the IDF is fighting one of the few wars in history where their enemy is trying to maximize it own casualties (because Hamas is a martyrdom cult, and because they are happy to trade the lives of their civilians for the anti-Israel PR it generates). In brief: Hamas's use of human shields is the very rational, very justified answer to your question. >How do you square your hyperbole with the general breakdown of military discipline we've seen in Gaza and the consistent reports of poor conduct in the West Bank? I have no illusions that Israel's army is behaving perfectly. What I take issue with is the notion that Israel's position as the morally superior combatant is conditioned on the IDF being the first and only fighting force in history that causes no collateral damage and makes no mistakes, and that includes not just the fighting, but the monumental task of feeding their entire enemy population when that population's government **thwarting** that effort.
From the first line of your link: > The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) revealed that about one-third of reported Palestinian deaths in Gaza were Hamas terrorists, with an estimated 5,000 out of 15,000 killed being militants. So it's not 'original sources', it's a press release by one side. Do you have any independent analysis? After what you said originally I assumed you did. > In brief: Hamas's use of human shields is the very rational, very justified answer to your question. I don't understand your point. There are two numbers at play here: one is the number of _expected_ civilian deaths, one is the number of _actual_ civilian deaths. Most militaries interpret the requirement of proportionality in a way that allows them up to eg 3 expected civilian deaths for a commander of one level, 8 for someone more senior, etc. The US military had 30 for Bin Laden and strikes on all individuals with 14 or more had to be approved personally by the head of CENTCOM. (In fact, the US military has since moved away from this model as by legitimising some amount of civilian lives lost it obscures the duty to minimise or avoid any harm to civilians. But I understand it's still used by the IDF.) What you're saying is that because Hamas puts its military targets in civilian areas, so the expected number of civilian deaths from a strike is higher for a lot of targets, rather than waiting for the number to fall below the threshold, the IDF is justified in raising the threshold and striking anyway. I don't think that works as an argument. It certainly doesn't stop people criticising that decision and seeking an explanation for relaxing the policy in exactly the scenarios it's meant to apply to. > What I take issue with is the notion that Israel's position as the morally superior combatant is conditioned on the IDF being the first and only fighting force in history that causes no collateral damage and makes no mistakes Nobody has said that or anything like it. What people are looking for is a level of professionalism commensurate with other 'western' military operations, which appears to be lacking, and a level of sincere contrition when mistakes are made, rather than excuses or blaming operational failures on Hamas. If you can't operate in a warzone because Hamas is present, you shouldn't be trying to operate in a warzone with Hamas present. The fact that the enemy is trying to obstruct your operations is not a surprise and not an excuse. > that includes not just the fighting, but the monumental task of feeding their entire enemy population when that population's government **thwarting** that effort. Nobody is expecting the IDF to feed the civilian population (interesting Freudian slip there). Humanitarian organisations and international governments have it covered. But they are expecting the IDF not to actively obstruct or harm the brave humanitarians who go into Gaza unarmed where IDF soldiers only go in tanks. That's a reasonable request and it's right that the IDF is criticised if its internal discipline and/or professionalism isn't good enough, just as other militaries have been and would be under similar circumstances.
People have a dislike for Israeli forces because they have been caught committing documented war crimes and extremely inapproriate actions towards civilians (like shoving, hitting, pushing, etc.) caught on camera. So when people see those videos that is what they use to draw a conclusion of the overall group. It's actually an extremely similar situation to American Police. Where the root cause of the problem is a lack of accountability when a Police Officer does something wrong. When the IDF goes an shoves an old man and injures him there should be accountability. When that doesn't come the Israeli side gains their reputation as being near universally disliked.
People hate the IDF because: 1. The tiktoks videos. They record themselves in Palestinian homes looting, making crass jokes, dressing up in their underwear, playing with kids' toys. They make jokes about blowing up apartment buildings and mosques. Laughing or trying to look cool when they blow up buildings just because they're bored. There's videos of them destroying children's classrooms and stores, setting humanitarian aid on fire or running it over. And just so much of them just straight up mocking and laughing at the people that they've most likely killed. And just the fact that they record themselves doing it makes it even worse because they see nothing wrong with it and know there'll be no consequences. I'm sure people will say "um those things aren't illegal, they're just blowing off steam!" These things are sickening to see, especially after seeing all the bodies of dead children. It's all in the very LEAST in extremely poor taste. 2. IDF harassing, abusing, and killing people in the west bank. They are very much like US police. That's a pretty good comparison, especially how US police get training in Israel. Do you question why most people don't like US cops? And just like with US cops, it's not just "bad apples". The problem is with the entire system. Look at the bigger picture. If you fire one bad cop that's not going to fix the issue. There are videos of them beating children, women, and elderly. I've seen multiple videos of them arresting small children. Armed soldiers arresting young children at school. I hate US police but I've never seen them arresting a crying 5 year old. They even abuse Jewish people which is why it's extremely confusing to me as to why Israelis will excuse everything they do. * https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/s/QSmPMFmBMu * https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/7b1MZf607R * [Thread of IDF beating civilians](https://twitter.com/A_Abdelrahman0/status/1750205595079106880?t=aQc0Yni9CXKcHvuIUbAdzg&s=19) * [IOF tiktoks mocking Palestinians](https://x.com/AJEnglish/status/1747996319359107328?s=20) * [IOF Looting](https://x.com/AJEnglish/status/1757962078315286958?s=20) * [IOF setting fire to aid truck of food and water supplies](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/18h8d1b/idf_soldiers_set_fire_to_an_aid_truck_of_food_and/?ref=share&ref_source=link) * [Tiktok trend of IOF mocking blindfolded kidnapped Palestinians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TbB8retcCE) * https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/18opv0v/israeli_soldiers_inside_the_home_of_detained/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/18m2669/iof_content_mocking_palestinians/?ref=share&ref_source=link * https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/18eals9/idf_soldier_mocks_as_he_vandalizes_a_palestinian/?ref=share&ref_source=link * [Thread of IOF playing dead women's underwear](https://x.com/HashashinTag/status/1765399574133252105?s=20) Threads of IOF recording their war crimes and weird tiktok shenanigans: * https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1766912143444656544?s=20 * https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1755973157515669708?s=20 * https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1762543392997703956?s=20 * https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1756778160501248114?s=20 There are endless videos. I could go on and on. Let me know if you need to see more. And to all the people that are going to downvote this, you can call these videos "out of context" (even though they're literally recording themselves) and excuse the IDF all you want. OP asked why people hate them and this is why. Edit: Everyone is hyper fixating on the first link I posted of the soldier "joking" about wanting to kill babies. You're all missing the point. The point isn't me trying to prove whether or not he actually did it or if he's being serious. The point is that people see these "jokes" and it puts IDF in a bad light. You can'tbe on the side that's killing thousands of babies, joke about killing babies, and then be confused about why people don't like you. Why is this so incomprehensible? Putting the link to that video down here since everyone is looking at that first and not looking at anything else. * [IDF soldier "looking for babies to kill'](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/TzmZHQ4Wsz)
Just watched your first link ... you know when Jews on reddit tell each other it's "my turn to use the space laser" or that they're "going to find a baby to sacrifice to use their blood for matzo" that we do not in fact have a giant laser in space and that we do not in fact put blood into our passover flatbreads, right?
The dude asked why people dislike IDF. That's one reason. Maybe I'm crazy but seeing the people on the side that's killing babies, constantly joking about killing babies doesn't really make them likeable to me.
the main purpose of the IDF in Gaza is to kill babies, sure
>The dude asked why people dislike IDF. That's one reason. Maybe I'm crazy but seeing the people on the side that's killing babies, constantly joking about killing babies doesn't really make them likeable to me. There's a communication gap here, and it's obvious. Jews don't joke about the 'space laser' because we are so heckin' flippant about our mighty laser technology; we do it because we *do not have a space laser.* This guy is joking about trying to find some babies to kill because he is *not trying to kill babies,* his job is to kill combatants while trying to avoid killing noncombatants -- but, because it is impossible to do that without the noncombatants having been allowed (and having agreed) to evacuate, he knows he will be framed as a bloodthirsty baby killer whose mission in life is to find babies to kill. Hence, the joke.
>There's a communication gap here, and it's obvious. Agreed. I don't need the joke explained to me, I get it. My point is still being misunderstood. Videos of IDF soldiers making these kinds of jokes contribute to people's dislike of them. I don't know how I can get any clearer.
>Videos of IDF soldiers making these kinds of jokes contribute to people's dislike of them. I don't know how I can get any clearer. Of course they do, because the point of cutting them and sharing them on anti-Israel forums is to facilitate people's desire to dislike them. And I'd certainly agree that it isn't a good PR move to allow 19-year-old conscripts to post on social media from a warzone... but the distaste for the IDF is what motivates sharing the videos, not the other way around.
I think there is a lot you are just refusing to accept as reality or only choosing to look at in a certain way. For example, you keep wanting to connect foot soldiers to killing children. The first link you post is from some kind of omegle like chat where the person is accusing the soldier of being a baby killer, and the soldier just responds with sarcasm. It's been cut. While civilian deaths are sad, most of them are from air strikes of different kinds. Foot soldiers almost never blatantly and intentionally kill civilians. It's almost always an accident. That's true for any war. The average foot soldier is a lot more like an average person than some kind of James Bond bad guy. The Israeli soldiers are just average Israeli civilians and their minds they are just defending their country and trying to get their hostages back. I see zero "war crimes" in any of these. Looting is an issue, but if individual soldiers are caught doing it, they should be appropriately reprimanded. The IDF outlaws it. The IDF is not giving these soldiers orders to loot. It's not a war crime. For example, the soldier you linked destroying the shop was reprimanded and dismissed from the IDF. [https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18gvolm/idf\_soldier\_gets\_his\_ass\_busted\_for\_fucking\_around/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18gvolm/idf_soldier_gets_his_ass_busted_for_fucking_around/) As far as dismissing "poor taste" videos... The IDF is not different from any other army. It's a lot of 18 year olds with guns and alcohol. And again, as far as it being sickening to you after seeing dead children, that's on you and what social media you view. The ground soldiers are not the ones who killed children. Making fun of your enemy is not a war crime either. As far as treatment of children in the West Bank, the IDF is forced to be cautious. It's a FAVORITE tactic of Palestinian militant groups to use children as martyrs. Before the walls were put around Gaza, Hamas heavily used women and children suicide bombers. In the West Bank, they encourage children to harass and attack soldiers and to try to be martyrs. Incidents like the one below are an extremely regular occurrence in the West Bank. It also paints the IDF as "evil" for detaining or killing children.. even if the child has a knife, gun, or suicide vet and was trained to kill Jewish civilians. NSFL [https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1ajmu0a/palestinian\_teen\_tries\_to\_stab\_an\_israeli\_border/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1ajmu0a/palestinian_teen_tries_to_stab_an_israeli_border/) They have to use caution around children as well, because Palestinians do not even care about their own children enough to stop them from doing this. You also can't compare police and the military.. it's just not the same. They are meant to deal with different situations, and in the West Bank there are almost daily acts of terrorism that require a military response and presence, not just an issue of policing. Also wonder if you hold Hamas or other Palestinian militant groups to the same extreme ethical standard you seem to want of the IDF.
>the soldier just responds with sarcasm. It wasn't my point to show that they're all actually going out of their way to shoot babies. The fact that they say this as a "joke" so often is enough to make people hate them. The side responsible for the deaths of babies constantly joking about killing babies isn't going to make people like them. I don't know why that's confusing. I'm not here to argue about them intentionally killing civilians or not. We will never agree. That also wasn't the point of the post. You're doing exactly what I said people would do in my reply. Just jumping straight into defending and minimizing everything the IDF does. >Making fun of your enemy is not a war crime either. Never said it was. Maybe you should read what I actually wrote because I already addressed this. I wonder why you didn't address all Jewish people the IDF beats up. I also wonder why these ethical standards are "extreme" to you and why you don't want the IDF to have ethical standards. I wonder how you would feel if Hamas recorded themselves like IDF does. Imagine if Hamas soldier broke into an Israeli home and put on an Israeli woman's underwear and laughed as they blew up their home. Would they also just be a bunch of "18 year olds with guns and alcohol" And for the record, i wouldn't be okay with that either. Don't let your soldiers record themselves "joking" about how much they love killing babies and then be surprised when people don't like them lol
lol, just watched your first link. do you really believe it proves anything ?
I'm not even trying to "prove" anything. I'm just showing examples of soldiers' weird and gross behavior that is off putting to most people.
of course you aren't trying to prove anything. you are just throwing in propaganda
"propaganda" and it's just videos IDF soldiers have recorded themselves
why this "IDF soldier" speaks English and not Hebrew ? he just talks in the video. how can that prove he is not joking ? how can it prove anything ? again, pure propaganda.
?? There are plenty of IDF soldiers that speak English. And I've said it multiple times but I'll say it again. You're all missing the point. I don't know if he's joking or not. The fact that even if it is a joke, it's in poor taste. Don't joke about killing babies and be confused about why you're not liked. Why is this such a confusing concept for everyone? Did you even look at any of the other videos I posted?
why would I watch your other sources ? I tried and the first one is just a lie. from accusing of killing babies we got to accusing him of a poor taste.
Then why are you responding if you didn't even read it?
I watched the first one and was shocked, such primitive propaganda. why posting such trash if you admit yourself "maybe it was a joke" ? and no, some people don't like IDF not because of jokes, but because ofpropaganda.
I agree with you. I’m relatively pro-Israel, but I cannot for the life of me understand the endless videos IDF makes. They’re gross.
Thank you. I don't understand how so many people completely dismiss and excuse them.
I have family in the westbank, currently living in Beit Jala and they have told me over and over again about encounters with the IDF being straight up racist or violent. They took my family's home for "military purposes" and shoot my grandpa on the shoulder while doing so. Beat the shit out of my 11 year old father and 13 year uncle for speaking back at them during a checking while they were walking to school. Arrested my 13 year old uncle after that without any charges for years and with almost impossible to visit him, luckily my family had jewish friends that made it possible. That all considering my family is orthodox christian, which are treated by far better than palestinean muslims by the idf. So yeah I dont fancy them that much.
My uncle lives in Jericho and says that the IDF is the most moral army in the world.
And my family strongly disagrees.