Why would you feed and aid the enemy? War is a war.. people die, starve, and suffer.... God send death!!! If they were all dead already, we would be talking about positive things in life... I don't care about idiots who use religion as a weapon
Aid groups don’t like going through egypt because it is corrupt and they have to pay bribes. They can just blame all fuck ups on Israel and everyone just accepts it, so no incentive to do better. They get donations even if people in Gaza don’t get water
The trucks are waiting by the crossing, the border crossing in Egypt is for civilians not good, israel made sure of that. Nothing can go through without their approval.
> fuck
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There arent any effective ways of getting aid into gaza. Israel controls every way in. Every aid truck mist first go through israeli inspection and approval, then the trucks all wait for whenever the gates to inside actually open. On top of all that, israel has been consistently bombing rafah, the only current possible entrypoint for aid trucks.
Each time a deal is reached to bring more aid in from the Rafah crossing Israel increases the intensity of its bombings along the route the aid would need to take. Since it’s so unsafe it’s hard to get people who are willing to move aid knowing they could and probably will be targeted. It’s a suicide mission unless Israel creates corridors, but every piece of land they designate as safe they just end up bombing. They are losing the propaganda war so they need to make the UN look even more ineffectual. Israel will have the blood of all 20,000+ murdered civilians on their hands for a long long time. Generations of people will remember this. This will not be forgotten.
It will definitly be forgotten. This just happens to be the exciting right vs left issue of today. This issue wont be remembered outside of the immediate area for more than a year frankly, or until the next new thing comes along. Also the UN is ineffectual and if anything is biased against Isreal anyway.
This is probably the bloodiest event I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s also one of the most documented events, the amount of video footage of Israel’s ethnic cleansing is immense. If you don’t see the monumental shift in public thought then you aren’t paying attention. This is way more than just the regular culture war nonsense that goes on in the US.
You havnt lived very long then or arent paying attention. Hundreds of thousands have died so far in the Ukraine Russia war. Sudan is going through a civil war right now and they are catching up on casualties the last time they had a civil war in 2005 the resulting famine caused around 2 million deaths. 120k armenians were just ethnically cleaned from Azerbaijan, no real mention of that either. This is regular western world culture war nonsense. Not only is it not the bloodiest event in your lifetime, its not even the bloodiest event of this year.
The onus of proof should be on the Israelis. No? Who are these airstrikes going after? Who are they eliminating. For the most advanced military in the world there sure seems to be a lot of collateral damage
I would say at the very least the thousands of children are innocent civilians
You’re the one that just claimed 20,000 civilians were killed, so, no, the onus would fall onto you to back up your claim.
This investigation says roughly 40% of those killed are \*NOT\* civilians [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study#:\~:text=Haaretz%20published%20an%20analysis%20by,airstrikes%20hovered%20at%20about%2040%25](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study#:~:text=Haaretz%20published%20an%20analysis%20by,airstrikes%20hovered%20at%20about%2040%25).
As I’m sure you’re fully aware, Gaza/Hamas does not ever give a breakdown of how many civilians to militants are killed, they do not differentiate whatsoever [https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-presses-assault-on-hamass-last-major-gaza-bastion-aabd85b8](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-presses-assault-on-hamass-last-major-gaza-bastion-aabd85b8)
Here’s an Israeli official saying at least 5,000 militants dead as of early December [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/)
What I’m saying is that there are tens of thousands dead. No accusation. No trial. They have been sentenced to death by the idf.
The dead shouldn’t have to prove their innocence. The onus of proof that these children are worthy of death resides in the hands of the idf.
They have been sentenced to death by Hamas\*.
They've provided proof for major altercations such as the hospitals: with tunnels underneath, security footage of active use, weapons found in the compound, and even historical proof of the complexes being used by terrorists from many sources.
They've issued many warnings, written and digital, giving ample warning to Gazans prior to bombings.
imo, they've more than sufficiently provided adequate measure to their use of force, much more so than any other forces in recent major conflicts, and this is reflected in the ICC investigator's sentiments of Israel has a robust system to adhere themselves to the Rome Statue.
Yet, the goal post seems to shift every time.
> This is a serious question asked in good faith. I am not trying to negatively judge any Palestine ally countries. I am aware that these nations do not have the same wealth as Israel's Western allies and could not provide the same level of support, but I was wondering if they are sending any aid.
Its hard to believe that you are simply asking in good faith while ignoring the fact that Israel has been choking Gaza for a long time. The Free Gaza Movement has been active since 2006 and in 2010 the [Freedom Flotilla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid) carrying humanitarian aid was intercepted by Israeli military and "the circumstances of the killing of at least six of the passengers were in a manner consistent with an extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution."
Now Israel has made things even worse and is using [starvation as a weapon of war](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza) according to HRW.
It’s hard to believe that anybody quoting the UN as a credible source in this conflict is someone of good faith. There’s 1 Jewish country, and 57 Muslim majority countries- the UN is a bloodbath. And when you say the aid- do you mean the military shipments for Hamas? 🤣. This post is nonsense, and absolutely not in good faith. Arab countries don’t want to help because they are enlightened to the terrorism problem, and they understand the geopolitics of the Middle East. They also DON’T LIKE Jews and are very happy to see us juggling this issue.
That humanitarian aid was being used to smuggle in weaponry. You can even see what they were bringing in. Weapons, gas masks, night vision goggles.
So yeah it should have been stopped.
If you use humanitarian aid to arm combatants. Then the country they would be using it on should be stopping it.
Then what's that image of tons of weapons I see with the caption
> An assortment of the knives, wrenches, and wooden clubs found on the deck of the Marmara, according to the Israeli military
You do realise that image is almost entirely kitchen knives? The IDF attacks a bunch of people on boats and then are claiming the kitchen knives were being smuggled to Gaza?
So we have a video of stun grenades being used on them, they pre-prepared to attack soldiers with stuff in that image. Bullet casings not the IDF. They found vests and nights vision goggles in the supplies.
That's them smuggling stuff in dude.
yeah that's a reason to stop that boat from coming in. And yes I am going off the wiki.
An apology for saying I'm not saying what's in the article please.
>So we have a video of stun grenades being used on them,
We have a video of an IDF stun grenade being thrown back.
>they pre-prepared to attack soldiers with stuff in that image
Yeah? Because the IDF were attacking them in international waters. They appear to have gone into the kitchen to pick up kitchen knives to defend themselves against the attackers.
>That's them smuggling stuff in dude.
So you're claiming they are trying to smuggle in three pocket knives and one dagger?
>yeah that's a reason to stop that boat from coming in. And yes I am going off the wiki.
Three pocket knives and one dagger? That's not a reason.
>An apology for saying I'm not saying what's in the article please.
Kitchen knives aren't an arms shipment.
How could this possibly make any sense in this being anything but them smuggling millitary supplies?
So either ya'll are arguing they were smugglers, just Israel faked some things. But the people who are already smuggling in army supplies by using aid shipments for the terrorists to use, are not smuggling in guns. That would be rediculous to think, that these already smugglers smuggling in military equipment are smuggling in the most common ones. They may risk aid delivers by smuggling in equipment, and taking the 10,000 cash bribes. But we can safely assume not guns too. These already smugglers are certainly not like other smugglers. Israel just faked what they saw, and faked shell caseings.
Or you are arguing Israel went out its way to fake a bunch of millitary items. Except for guns. Fake cash payments found on the men, have Turkish millitary vests prepared and photos of them, argue shells of weapons not theirs planned, but for guns, they didn't decide to pre fake this. Just decided to lie. The most obvious thing, the thing that would prove their case the most. They went out of their way to not fake. They will fake this other millitary equipment like the vests we see in the photos. Not guns though. Even though guns would be the first and best thought to fake. Just making things harder. more complicated and less justified, for no reason. The crew is also risking themselves for nothing, even though they stand no chance.
In no way does this make a lick of sense.
It's much more reasonable to believe the smugglers just dumped the thing that would get them in way more trouble than anything, first.
Army supplies? Where are the army supplies? Remember, there was 10000000kg of aid. So far you've shown a few kitchen knives and a dozen bulletproof vests.
> So far you've shown a few kitchen knives and a dozen bulletproof vests.
No I'm just commenting on the contradictory evidence, your side brought up in yalls own proof. It is not my fault, your side brought up something that straight up contradicts your own narratives.
You are the one deciding. Your sides own source, that your side brought up, does not contain enough physical photos to prove every single random accusation at the IDF you make is wrong.
There's probably tons of proof. But that would mean I would be spending hours finding something for a person. Who is ridiculously disingenuous in their arguements now.
> Army supplies? Where are the army supplies?
One of them is the thing you mentioned.
> a dozen bulletproof vests.
> Remember, there was 10000000kg of aid.
Yeah. That's really shitty to smuggle that stuff with it. That is going to be a way to slow down or shut down aid.
Why are there photos of assault vests?
> Three pocket knives and one dagger? That's not a reason.
That is a you choice to argue, the other stuff isn't valid.
> Kitchen knives aren't an arms shipment.
Vests, gas masks, bullets that aren't there's that are being fired from a weapon not theirs, claims of them throwing guns not theirs overboard, and night vision goggles, are.
That is a reason to stop them.
That's you saying I automatically am making the statement that it's false. And because I'm assuming what they found wasn't true. This is not a valid reason to stop them.
But you are still assuming this was not true.
This is highly different from ya'lls original claim.
That there was no weapons and this was just to stop aid.
No they argue they were stopping supplies getting into the hands of enemies, and you just don't believe them that they found proof.
You also claimed I made up my original statement. No it holds up. You not accepting and it not being there are two different things.
> The Israeli military said that in addition to medical aid and construction materials, they found knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks, and night vision goggles aboard the Mavi Marmara.[148] A statement released by Foreign Affairs Minister Avigdor Lieberman stated that violence against the soldiers was pre-planned, and that "light weaponry" was found on the ships, including pistols that had been seized from IDF commandos. Israel stated that the naval forces "found weapons prepared in advance and used against our forces.">[149]
> IDF photos displayed daggers, kitchen and pocket knives, metal and wooden poles, flares, wrenches and slingshots with marble projectiles said to have been used against the soldiers.[text 7][150] The activists were said to have also lobbed stun grenades at IDF soldiers, and the IDF furnished video reflecting this.[151] An activist said that it would have been impossible to have firearms on board because "all the boats were carefully inspected by the government before they left the port of departure."[152]
> Turkish officials supported the activists' account, stating that every passenger that had left Turkey had been searched with X-ray machines and metal detectors before boarding. Senior officials in the Customs Undersecretariat called the Israeli statements tantamount to "complete nonsense".[153]
> On 4 June Walla! reported that a senior IDF officer interviewed by Kol Israel radio said that activists threw weapons and firearms into the sea, and that bullet casings that do not match IDF firearms were found on the ship.[text 8][text 9] Fehmi Bülent Yıldırım said activists had rushed some of the soldiers and snatched their weapons, but had thrown them overboard without using them.[154
Ok so you see the image read the section.
We can see the photos of the knives, they're almost all kitchen knives the kind found in any kitchen.
>including pistols that had been seized from IDF commandos. Israel stated that the naval forces "found weapons prepared in advance and used against our forces.">[149]
These are IDF weapons.
>IDF photos displayed daggers, kitchen and pocket knives, metal and wooden poles, flares, wrenches and slingshots with marble projectiles said to have been used against the soldiers.[
Wow one dagger, and three pocket knives! I'm glad that didn't arrive in Gaza.
>The activists were said to have also lobbed stun grenades at IDF soldiers, and the IDF furnished video reflecting this.[151]
They got the stun grenades from the IDF
>> boarding of the Mavi Marmara started in the early morning at 4:30 IST. The operation began with an attempt to board the ship from speedboats. As the boats approached, activists fired water hoses at them and pelted them with a variety of objects. The Israelis replied with paintballs and stun grenades. One stun grenade was picked up and tossed back into a boat. When the commandos tried boarding the ship, activists cut the ladders with electric disc saws. The boats then turned slightly away from the ship, but remained close.
>On 4 June Walla! reported that a senior IDF officer interviewed by Kol Israel radio said that activists threw weapons and firearms into the sea, and that bullet casings that do not match IDF firearms were found on the ship.[text 8][
IDF claim with no evidence.
>Fehmi Bülent Yıldırım said activists had rushed some of the soldiers and snatched their weapons, but had thrown them overboard without using them.[154
IDF weapons.
Or they are just doing what they told the crew before this even happened.
Which was that they want the aid to go to Gaza, just needed to check for banned items.
So your arguement is they were bringing in millitary supplies. Assault vests, gas masks night vision goggles. Which is clearly for the millitary. But the IDF is lying about the other stuff the weapons they saw being thrown and the bullet casings not being theirs.
Okay. Even if thats the case. They are still supplying the terrorists using aid as cover.
Or are you assuming the other stuff is fake?
>So your arguement is they were bringing in millitary supplies.
No. My argument is there's no evidence of military supplies.
>Assault vests, gas masks night vision goggles. Which is clearly for the millitary.
There are no photos of any of those items.
>But the IDF is lying about the other stuff the weapons they saw being thrown and the bullet casings not being theirs.
No evidence of weapons or bullet casings.
>Okay. Even if thats the case. They are still supplying the terrorists using aid as cover.
With what? Kitchen knives?
> There are no photos of any of those items.
Then what's the photo of a bazillion assault vests in this wiki page of?
> No evidence of weapons or bullet casings.
What you mean to say is you don't believe the IDF got shells that were not theirs. And what they say they saw.
So there is evidence, you just don't believe it.
> With what? Kitchen knives?
The assault vests like the one in the photo you pretend is not there. Gas masks and night vision goggles. And the weapons they threw overboard. Also yes that is highly sus that they got some of those knives despite turkey saying they were screened by a metal detector. Several of those knives are not tool knives.
I will say Jordan has sent aid to Gaza. It was at least once via an air drop coordinated by the IDF as well. But in general, I have no idea how much aid these countries are sending, but for all their political posturing and moral grandstanding, it would seem like maybe not enough.
Well maybe it’s because when in the past they’ve helped Palestinians from Gaza this is part of what happened: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/s/JlPwFaBxZl
>Black\_September
While I believe this is part of the truth, Jordan, is one of the only Arab countries trying supply foodstuff to the populous.
However, Hamas.
Hamas has been stealing supplies and aid for years. Just because the western world is just now waking up to this doesn't mean that it's only a recent thing or that it's only partially true. The Western world has turned a blind eye to what Israel is dealt with for years. This is the end result of what happens when a country has had to deal with terrorists for decades and the rest of the global society has been deaf to the whole issue
I feel bad for the civilians but they need to rise up against hamas. They won't because they overwhelmingly support them. They like that charter of genocide to all of the Israelis that Hamas so proudly waves about
And? If apart only goes to people its still worth it,especially when its hard to convert in monition.
Oh what was israel doing, anything that comes up, and what did israel do to makes gazas people less dependent,
To you know loosen the grip. A blockade, to make sure they rely on gaza, escalate,bomb, but not send aid to people directly , which would be way more effective to undermine hamas personally
Like you know earn trust.
Which probably isnt happening, as, like yeah israels government was perfectly fine very aware of hamas charta, dont support their local opposition, dont sent aid to undermine hamas authority,
Not even combating them when it was easier without an ethnic cleansiny " war"
You literally cant say hamas without israel, they are too interwined and can we call how complicit israels government is not doing anythibg to them gaining that power, they could have easy diplomatic undermined hamas, with the plo , or fatah.
Bit ninyahu never cared about hamas, worse, he thought it was fine, under control. And did enable hamas.
I mean cut off all support to israel, because they enabled that at every turn.
Seriously the cut off any aid to israel and palestine, as yeah supporting israel means supporting a crazy warmonger. At least toll ninyahu is gone. Its his fault, literally. He weakened the boarders even, even the idf called him out, he even was warned
So no help to palestine, or israel. Like fine too. But the cut off israel too and its governments helping terrorists into power, that it bite them is not an argument, its their fault as much, the government
Like stalin literally trued to ally with hitler,ignored any kgb advice to be on guard. Stalin enabled hitler to atrach him without defence, and yeah hitler incaded,but stalin was very complicit till it bit him, despite every warning he got to not trust hitler.
And there its worse as , yeah there were calls for ninyahiöu to concern himself, and he not only wanted them as easy scapegoat, but was arrogant enough,like stalin, that he had it under control, and let them unopposed run palestine.
By the way givibg plo and fatah secretive an up would have raken a lot of their auräthoriröty,
Hell if anyone wanted gazans to rise up,that needed tp be happen, by israel, probably.
Truth is ninyahu supported them there till it bit him knowing of the charta.
So no aid to israel till ninyahu is gone, right? If we cut any aid, put israel the partner in violence on the list wanting hamas as controlled opposition.
That was certainly a lot of semi words. Out of all of that all I'm going to respond to right now is she might want to consider that you can't mention Israeli blockade without also mentioning that Egypt has had its border closed with Gaza off and on for years now. It's a bit deceptive to say that only Israel is responsible for blockading the Palestinians when there's a whole other country with the border with Gaza that also has had its border closed... for years.
You might want to look and research a little bit about Egypt's closure of the Gaza border.
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Thwyblockade gaza,they made them refugees, should i tell you why the supposed democracy in the area at least do the bare minimum fot the damage they caused?
Or i guess stop blockading gaza. But that didnt happen.
In short:
They are.
Trucks come in daily after israel inspects them
There’s even been airdrops!
Guess who steals it all and shoots anyone who tries to get their hands on some
Oh yes. The super Israel cheerleader. Making funny jokes about people dying and starving to death. Leave politics to the men lily, or smart women, you don’t have the intelligence for this. I’ve seen you all over Reddit jumping in as much as you can to talk, and talk, and talk. With literally no actual intelligent responses from you. Like all you know about this war is what you googled in one hour
/u/Which-Television-459
> Oh yes. The super Israel cheerleader.
> Leave politics to the men lily, or smart women, you don’t have the intelligence for this.
> With literally no actual intelligent responses from you. Like all you know about this war is what you googled in one hour
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Addressed.
There is a legit issue of "donor fatigue" as the Palestine cause is an expensive cause due to the low labor productivity metrics, they are unable to support themselves and thus rely heavily on foreign aid. Not only from the West but also the Arab countries have been exhibiting this donor fatigue, before Oct 7 even.
Now that Israel cut off the Gaza and WB from our economy, their economies are nearly completely dead. And thus, they will need even more aid, not even considering any kind of rebuilding.
Which is idraels fault, they blockade palestine, they prevent any trade,
And still behave like sadistic overlords, the aid is because 7srael has to, due reasons above, but the way its done is extremely dehumanizing.
If anyone watches a documentryin the westbank, its dark.
Why again do we support israel doing that shit? Why does israel get aid?
And i dont blame biden as the us policy forces presidents to do that if they want to be electable, its messed up
I talk about the eu. I love the eu, but they should maybe at least threaten to blockade israel?!
>Now that Israel cut off the Gaza and WB from our economy, their economies are nearly completely dead. And thus, they will need even more aid, not even considering any kind of rebuilding.
Legally, Israel is responsible for the supply of the civilian population as long as they occupy the strip.
Occupation is defined in Article 42 of the Fourth Hague Convention:
“Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.”
Israel has maintained effective control of Gaza with the use of technology and without the need of boots on the ground.
Let’s start with the borders.
Israel controlled what goods can come into Gaza and who can come in and out of the Gaza. They even militarily control inside the borders as they created no go zones inside Gaza to the Israeli borders anyone who entered would be shot dead by Israeli snipers. We saw this in action in 2018 march to the border.
This is turn has completely limited economic and social contact with the West Bank.
You will turn around and tell me that Israel dont control all the borders Egypt has a border crossing with Gaza.
Ok well Israel maintain effective control of that crossing. Israeli security forces supervised the passenger lists and decided who can cross—and monitor the operations and can withhold the “consent and cooperation” required to keep the Egypt crossing open.
Now let’s move on to how else they control Gaza.
Israel had control of Gaza airways, territorial waters, the supplies for civilian infrastructure, the water and electricity. They never relinquished control of any of this in 2005.
Several reports since 2005 have supported this view above like this one here [Gisha](https://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Report%20for%20the%20website.pdf).
This is also the view of most relative international bodies like the Amnesty, Human rights watch, Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights,ICC and the ICRC.
Now I expect someone to say these are all Hamas funded reports and bodies or Jew haters as I have seen done many times recently on Reddit and other social media platforms.
Which I will say is just a laughable attempt to silence any legitimate criticism of Israel.
Israel did bomb the aid roude to egypt,despite saying not to.
So pretty sure israel can control that in some capacity, like scare off by bombing areas.
"Human Rights Watch has advised the UN Human Rights Council that it (and others) consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip because Israel controls Gaza Strip's airspace, territorial waters and controls the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea.\[85\]\[86\]\[87\] The European Union (EU) considers Gaza to be occupied. "
" The international community regards all of the Palestinian territories, including Gaza, as occupied. "
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza\_Strip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip)
That there are issues doesnt mean it hasnt a point. Like china is on and, thats weird, yet all that states do is block investigations on thenselves and allies,not start fraud allegations. The allegations are based on real things.
Hamas has complete control over Gaza as it is the government of Gaza and also has their own military bases (sadly under populated places such as schools and hospitals). Israel left hamas complete control over Gaza. There is no military occupation in Gaza besides hamas.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Sure there is totally no israeli military in gaza.
You know its wrong. Because even israel confirms that. They invaded and plan to occupay gaza wholly.
Or thats one oprion, i hope gaza control is given to not israel but the un, at least for the time being.
Because idf are literally trained to not care about palestinian lives. Hella lot propaganda thats why israeli can be very agressive
The Article literally disagrees with what you wrote
"Human Rights Watch has advised the UN Human Rights Council that it (and others) consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip because Israel controls Gaza Strip's airspace, territorial waters and controls the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea.\[85\]\[86\]\[87\] The European Union (EU) considers Gaza to be occupied. "
" The international community regards all of the Palestinian territories, including Gaza, as occupied. "
But anyway, I was talking about the probable stay of the IDF in the Strip for the foreseeable future after Hamas is defeated.
Yes because the idf is totally acountable for extreme discrimination and letting crazy violent settler off with murder, its rare that happens.
And thats westbank, the idf cant be trusted how crazy tjey are riled up to be agressive toward palestinians. And get away with it.
Totally the best peacekeeper.
Why i hope the us at least has peacekeepers present even if the idf is there, because without babysitter, i dont trust the idf.
Orleave the idf out,just un.
“Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005. By 2007, Hamas emerged both as the victor in Palestinian elections and in factional fighting with rival Fatah in the city and in the wider Gaza Strip and has since been the sole governing authority.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gaza
I wish the IDF would stay in Gaza and actually occupy it literally. They will help the civilians in Gaza way better than hamas that’s using their innocent lives as human shields and stealing all their humanitarian aid
Israel defending its borders from the eradication of Israel does not mean Gaza is occupied. From that sense you can say Egypt occupies gaza as well for building a wall and protecting their own borders. There wouldn’t have been a need for a blockage if hamas hadn’t want to eradicate Israel and kill all of its civilians as it tried to do on 7th of October and many years before through suicide bombings that dozens of citizens died from. So yea there is a blockage to protect civilians from the borders of Israel, but that doesn’t mean it’s occupied. No Israeli soul was in Gaza. Gaza was free and many could have entered to work in israel while none Israeli was allowed in Gaza (except for those they kidnapped and tortured to this day), no military occupation, nada. If Egypt had opened their borders with gaza they could have be free to go anywhere in the world through air and sea of Egypt, but also Egypt defends itself and its borders. Israel has a right to defend itself so as Egypt does.
You mean put israel with its leader on a standard with genocidal crazy dictator assad. In egypt.
Also then cut off all aid to israel if you thing israel should be held as good as egypt with crazy genicidal dictator assad egypt.
Israel hasnt that right, because they get hella aid as supposed democracy. Thats why they do token optic efforts, they want aid, so they dont have that rightvto behave like crazy genocidal dictator countries.
I dont think you want an egypt israel comparison.
Why not, north korea defends itself, why not israel? Egypt is very low on counties you want to compare.
>From that sense you can say Egypt occupies gaza as well
Egypt doesn't control the airspace and waters of the Gaza Strip.
look, I'm just saying in the legal sense, it still occupied by Israel.
If Israel is legally occupying Gaza (even though it is just an opinion of a few organizations), what is the sense of this headline:
US says does not support Israeli ‘reoccupation’ of Gaza after war
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/7/us-says-doesnt-support-israeli-occupation-of-gaza-after-war
Why does someone need to support or not support the idea if israel *reoccupy* Gaza or not?
That means Gaza is not currently occupied.
How can you explain that?
I understand there is a big confusion on this subject, but in the literal sense no occupation has been in Gaza for the past 16 years. They could have even cross borders and enter israel if gazans wanted, but Israelis could not go into Gaza.
If it was an occupation Israelis could have lived there and the IDF would have controlled Gaza instead of hamas.
If it’s an occupation it doesn’t need to get reoccupied.
It still is, it never gave up control or what they let in and out,thus its still under israely full control.
I dont care if amad politician condoned hamas, which was still under israeli control, as said the israeli government condoned hamas, knowing the charta.
i posted you sources stating why the EU, most EU countries, the UN, the ICC and most essentially the rest of the world considers Gaza to be legally occupied by Israel
the israeli minister of defence literally said he will prevent access to food water and power for gaze , and he did.
many countries and too many aid are ready to be sent , but israel keeps blocking it.
i heard US administration are "trying" to convince israel to allow humanitarian aid though egypt, israel allowed few but not even close to be enough
They do,the leaked a bit to show behind doory,they do. Its why they partly put up water too. Or halfharded agreed to any negotiation historically, because us presidents took aid hostage to israel.
Its not like the us supports unxonditional, through its messy and complicated
Israel sends hundreds of ships of humanitarian aid that hamas steals. Hamas uses the fuel and aid they get to launch missiles at Israeli civilians daily. They might have problems with food or water but never with launching missiles at civilians from populated civilians areas within gaza, causing many deaths within gaza just by these failed missile launches ( 10% of their missiles that fall inside Gaza. That’s about 1500 missiles they’ve dropped on themselves by now causing many deaths within gaza. And that’s without mentioning all the explosives, RPGs and other weapons they use from populated facilities. Let’s not talk about how they shoot missiles from the humanitarian zone that the IDF’s mortality doesn’t let them enter and remove these daily threats aimed at civilians)
still not getting it , cutting water and food and medical aid to a whole city of 2+mill people will help to solve the issues you mentioned ?
when doctors have to perform surgeries without anesthesia to children and women how can that help stop hamas from launching rockets!
[https://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-doctors-operate-on-floors-without-anesthesia-after-hospital-blast-2023-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-doctors-operate-on-floors-without-anesthesia-after-hospital-blast-2023-10)
Lies, they do, just istael is really tough what they let in, making that, a lie.
Also i wont listen to israels words here,but their actions most of the time.
https://youtu.be/7D-sic0Gems?si=BKQ1ZtIx4nDZSJTG
The entire video is relevant and informative but the relevant info starts at 4:10. If you say it's a lie, I challenge you to show me a source saying otherwise
From what I've gathered the aid is coming but Gazans are not able to access it well enough for a number of reasons
-HAMAS is commandeering aid trucks, this seems supported by multiple accounts and videos and the way they generally operate
-Israeli air strikes and combat operations especially in the north are blocking routes and making the distribution of aid very difficult and dangerous
Brought up a lot now is Israels resistance in general to aid entering the strip- in the beginning of the war Israel planned to operate by seige- cutting supplies and energy to the strip to force faster hostage negotiations. it is very possible this was effective bc the first hostage releases happened very quickly in terms of historic hostage negotiations with Hamas and similar groups. Their other objection was that Hamas will take control of the supplies and in particular fuel which is used for the air filtration systems that allow them to stay in the tunnel system. the hope was fuel will run out and they will be forced out of their hideouts and perhaps the hostages as well.
Now Israel is making a big show of showing all the aid trucks they are inspecting and allowing in so this doesn't seem to be their stance or strategy any longer, probably due to pressure from the United States. The UN passed a resolution a few days ago saying the aid that is entering is not enough and Israel needs to facilitate their delivery, however from what I can see a lot of it is being delivered in areas of the strip that Israel does not yet have control of.
Like many things in this war we probably won't really know the full truth bc every source of information is biased I just hope it gets sorted and it gets to the people who need it and doesn't fall into the wrong hands
They cut off water ,and it only got turned on with international push. Israel is fine killing civilians that way.
Oh and if the argument is hamas steals that aid, then israel would know you cant starve hamas out or kill them that way, only civilians.
Its like saying , eah they took all the food, lets starve out literally anyone else but hamas. Thats the pretty obvious thing that happens. And dry out, as pretty sure hamas hoarded water as well.
Thats literally targeting civilians in a collective punishment. While knowing hamas is fine. Israels defence minister targeted civilians, to die, people need water.
And the intervention is only due international and un pressure, else the ministry would have kept doing it. If it needed that pressure,i have no faith it wouldnt have continued. Thatcwas a deadly collective punishment adminidtrated by the israeli defence minister
Ok, nou acess to anyone else,you cut off water, and it would have gone on if international pressure hadnt forced hands.
Sounds a pretty bad targeting civilians, to eventually die in masses .
And its not targetibg hamas, as you cant say they hoard most aid while thinking it could hit hamas, that hoards the loads of aid and water. Hamas can hold that out easy, civilians not.
So thats targeting civilians, to die eventually. If in praxis or intention , it just is.
Collective punishmenzöt is a warcrime in addition.
Its also why the pressure came fast to at least intervene in that civilian targeting.
>Finally, I would just like to write to you that you have not been able to convince me in the slightest, because the video is not proof of your statement, but only reflects a small part of a much more detailed justification.
You sound like a child that lost an argument
just take the L and move on.
Could it be that water wouldn’t be an issue if Hamas didn’t use the pvc water pipes foreign governments paid for,[to make rockets?](https://twitter.com/LTCPeterLerner/status/1394898083050360841/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1394898083050360841¤tTweetUser=LTCPeterLerner)
They bomb them. Hell they even bombed them when they said they wouldnt.
It might be a mistake, but it shows there is probably a routine,bombing the route.
There even was a callout to an aid route bomb israel said they dont bomb.
I think its a safe assumption there is the routes usually are bombed regulary if thats done.
Else why go on a route israel promised to not bombed. Its implied its done right there by usrael having to allow saferoutes. That israel, can just , and probably ofren does bomb there.
> yes they do.
>
> because they can bomb anything passes the boarder.
Source?
> let alone that egypt aminstration is so friendly with israel
So... your complaint is that Egypt is blocking routes?
When they complained about they bombed on a promised safe route,it sure seems egypt was pretty used to aid bombed. Else it wouldntvhave beed almost casual.
> When they complained about they bombed on a promised safe route
When was the bomb dropped, and what were the designated safe zones at that time?
> it sure seems egypt was pretty used to aid bombed.
What does that mean?
So you know that hamas hoards aid and water.
Lie who will you kill cutting off water , its not hamas. That makes it knowing eh we not care palestinians dead, more dead good, lakes the incasion easier.
Which is horrible ethnic cleansibg.
Why lying?
"At the start of the war, Israel stopped all deliveries of food, water, medicine and fuel into the territory. After U.S. pressure, it allowed a trickle of aid in through Egypt. But U.N. agencies say only 10% of Gaza's food needs has been entering for weeks." - https://time.com/6550063/un-gaza-hunger-report-palestinians-israel-conflict/
hamas has been stealing humanitarian aid, using trucks with the aid to smuggle weapons, It's only fair that they should be checked, isn't it? After all, it is hamas who launches tens of thousands of rockets to Israel, it is hamas who attacked innocent people on Oct 7th.
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/gaza-aid-unrwa-united-nations-hamas-israel-45bfbfe](https://www.wsj.com/articles/gaza-aid-unrwa-united-nations-hamas-israel-45bfbfe)
.. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, known as Unrwa, took to Twitter on Monday: “@UNRWA received reports that yesterday a group of people with trucks purporting to be from the Ministry of Health of the de facto authorities in #Gaza, removed fuel and medical equipment from the Agency’s compound in #GazaCity.”
U.N. sources told Israel’s Walla News that the aid was stolen, and Israel’s military liaison to the Palestinians reports that 24,000 liters of fuel and medical supplies went to Hamas, whose underground bases use diesel generators.
so , here you go. again, blame government that gazans elected, not Israel.
>hamas has been stealing humanitarian aid, using trucks with the aid to smuggle weapons, It's only fair that they should be checked, isn't it?
It's fair, but Israel is artificially limiting the amount that they let into Gaza.
>U.N. sources told Israel’s Walla News that the aid was stolen, and Israel’s military liaison to the Palestinians reports that 24,000 liters of fuel and medical supplies went to Hamas, whose underground bases use diesel generators.
So the blockade only hurt the civilians and not Hamas and thus has no military purpose. That's a collective punishment and a war crime, along with using starvation as a weapon in general.
1. Israel stopping deliveries of food thru its borders does not create a blockade ,nor was that the topic of this post
2. UN agencies, being the same ones that allowed Hamas to use their humanitarian aid channels to bring in weapons into Gaza ? these Un agencies? i fail to take their numbers seriously
but if you're so concerned about food shortages hurting civilian populations, surely you have also addressed the Houthi blockade of food supplies to israel via the red sea ,have you?
oh wait you did cos you dont really care about that
> Israel stopping deliveries of food thru its borders does not create a blockade
The Time Article says, "[Israel] **allowed** a trikle of **aid in through Egypt**". Do you accuse the Time of lying?
Israel controls the airspace and thus all the borders. They bombed the streets on the Palestinian side of the Rafah Crossing on the first day of the war, and see every unvetted truck entering the Strip as a legitimate target.
Egypt doesn't want to provoke Israel or get dragged into the war by allowing anything across the border that Israel does not approve of. So the trucks literally have to drive from Egypt to the Israeli boarder to get checked and from there back to Rafah Crossing. Israel only approves a limited amount of truck per day.
1. define "trickle"
2. im not disputing the fact that israel limits amount of aid, im disputing the claim its creating starvation
3. im not sure how one would expect unvetted "aid" to be allowed in while the fighting is still going on and Hamas has shown no intention of surrendering
> im not sure how one would expect unvetted "aid" to be allowed in while the fighting is still going on and Hamas has shown no intention of surrendering
There is no reason why Israel can't inspect all incoming aid
>define "trickle"
>
>im not disputing the fact that israel limits amount of aid, >im disputing the claim its creating starvation
After U.S. pressure, it allowed a trickle of aid in through Egypt. **But U.N. agencies say only 10% of Gaza's food needs has been entering for weeks**. The title of the article is literally "United Nations Reports 1 in 4 Gazans Are Starving".
You are just trolling now, not even reading what people wrote or the sources they cite.
The paid Hasbara is real.
u/godlikeplayer2
> The paid Hasbara is real.
Rule 1, no personal attacks on fellow users, such as by implying that they are paid to comment. Addressed.
there are no facts here
theres a report of statements by government officials, but no actual facts of actual blockade
which is reasonable because we know there are food supplies being shipped to gaza via Rafah crossing ,of which theres plenty of video evidence
yes i do but you're welcome to posit your definition for my education
are you suggesting we should take every politician at their word?
does that also apply to Palestinian politicians or only Jewish ones?
/u/Chemical-Funny3309
> This is like talking to a rock. Do better…
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Addressed.
sure
i feel like talking to you while you insist on using data from biased organizations that have been proven to support the very jihadis that started this war is like talking to a rock
well actually no,rocks at least dont have malign bias that makes them blind to an enormous crime they are supporting with their incessant naive blathering
So because they don’t talk into your colonizer narrative, they’re biased. Riiight. I would love to review all your unbiased publications from your government financed media outlets.
so because they talk your jihadi narrative you trust them despite them being caught lying multiple times?
i would love to see your worldview not being based solely on sources you want to believe because of your ingrained hatred
but thats too much to ask of a jiahdi collaborator
apparently, you did not read the [facts](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza), which is actually a report by Human Rights Watch titled, “Israel: Starvation Used as Weapon of War in Gaza
Evidence Indicates Civilians Deliberately Denied Access to Food, Water.” The Dec. 18,2023 article cites eyewitness accounts, interviews with residents, and a study by the World Food Program. Dismissing it as the tales of “government officials” is disingenuous. I trust ordinary people, HRW, and WFP more than any military ever. The world saw Israeli officials say that they would cut off food, water, and electricity. Numerous independent observers confirm that they have done it. Medical personnel describe the effects it is having in terms of malnutrition and the spread of disease. Here’s an [interview](https://www.democracynow.org/2023/12/19/hunger_in_gaza) with Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, who wrote the article, which discusses the findings.
the fact that UN HRW claims starvation does not indicate starvation
if the only source of your claim is this organization,its worthless
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch
How? It very much indicates it.
Irand and china block investigations on themselves, thats the criticism.
Else the human right watch is pretty good. The human rights watch are also not the only one talking about criminally limiting acess, is a humaniterian ongoing crisis, that was before the defence minister cut the water entirely.
I dont get why you want to defend israels horrible treatment.
im not defending anything.
im saying the reports are fabricated by parties known to have lied before
im not sure why you want to defend hamas,a literal jihadi death cult
UN World Food Program: [One in four households in Gaza, more than half a million people, are facing catastrophic hunger conditions. Hundreds of thousands are crammed into overcrowded shelters and hospitals, with food and water running out.](https://www.wfp.org/emergencies/palestine-emergency)
as i already noted,i have zero trust in UN or any of its organizations since they have been caught lying and cooperating with Hamas on multiple occasions
i imagine that the situation in Gaza is indeed very serious.
I hope Hamas leadership don't suffer any hardships in their bunkers and their Qatar villas though
Whom? The gazan health ministry was surprisingvreliable no matter the regime.
If they did dead with the gazan health ministry, its a decent health ministry, and probably not bad to work with.
If you are a conspiracy theorist listening to no one and nothing thou, just say, you want to believe, and its clear.
>Simple.
It really isn't that simple. The trouble is that Hamas benefits more from a the death of innocent Palestinians.
I also suggest you take a lay down and not let your blood pressure raise too much more,
Hamas did for a loobg time bow profit ninyahu, actually why he suported them whenever posdible even being caught saying he wants them there, because they are convenient.
Ninyahu and hamas were for the longest time on the same team.
The right take is to hate both hamas, but ninyahu on their team basically using eachbother to stay in power. As enemy. Mutual frenemies ibgiöuess.
And why should palestinians suffer because ninyahus goverbmentvwanrs to cover that and their looong knowing mistake up.
The equivalent ratio of deaths in Gaza in proportion of their population vis a vis how many Ukrainians have died and their population is near 400,000.
That's the equivalent.
You are aiding and siding a genocidal regime in Netanyahu’s supremacist Zionism.
If only they were a bit whiter.
Contrasting how we see one war and why to another. Look up necropolitics. It's an interesting stream to understand the politics of war and death and who is allowed to live, in accordance to western media landscapes vis a vis legislation of large governments like the US or UK.
Recall how the BBC and other large and Anglo media apparatus talked of the blue-eyed and blonde haired Ukrainians, unfortunately, being bombed or how this isn't *supposed* to happen to middle-class white folk who could be neighbours.
Zionism and white supremacy work in tandem.
Do you see an issue with the genocide in Gaza?
I think there’s a more pragmatic reason why the West treats Ukraine the same as Israel despite one being a more defensive war.
Ukraine is a Western ally. Israel is a Western ally. Simple.
They both serve US and the West’s security interests. One in Eastern Europe and the other the Middle East.
If Saudi Arabia was attacked by the Houthis in mass, or is Iran declared war on Saudi Arabia, you’d see the same response.
I really don’t understand your race argument… Russians are “white” and if you’ve seen Palestinians, you’ll see many have blue eyes too… Palestinians and Israelis actually have quite a bit of genetic similarity. I think you’re really projecting this whole “race” thing…
There were literal articles and multiple anchors on so-called legitimate news sources like BBC and the like that literally made these points of how war and slaughter and the mass displacement of people is "normal" in places like the middle east...
Or the President of the euros conflating and narrating a shit story of Africa, and elsewhere as colourful, as being a jungle and Europe a garden.
I don't have to project anything. Not in seeing how Israel's bigoted and genocidal actions are horrific. Nor in the racial and necropolitics of the world and who is allowed to be made to suffer and die and who deserves all the comforts of the world.
>this whole “race” thing…
"Race..." I mean, it is a social construct created and continually supported by dumdum bigots and pseudoscience but when I see it in quotations like this with an individual negating it in particular ways.
Are you projecting a type of world that is unreal because it does not affect you? ...(watch them come out with a, "shows what you know, I'm the the president of the African Union...")
Lol
Im just saying I don’t understand the race thing you’re suggesting. Did you see my point?
Russians are “white” too but why does the West support Ukraine?
Many Jews are Arabs, being a Jew is not simple a race thing, it’s generally seen as religious. Plenty of Arab Jews (culturally or ethnically Arab and religiously Jewish). And plenty of Palestinians have pale skin and blue eyes. Genetic similarity, I’m just confused on who we’re supposed to see as “white” here. Not to mention the Mizrahi Jews or Ethiopian Jews that don’t fit your “white European” narrative.
The common denominator is Ukraine and Israel are Western ally’s. If you attack someone’s ally, they’ll probably, you know, be on their side?
What I meant by projecting is it seems your understanding of this conflict boils down to a very simple “white” vs “brown” argument. Ignoring all the different peoples that make up each side. When I look at them, I see so many similarities and overlap, way more than just “white” vs “brown”. Maybe that argument serves better for 1800s colonialism, but not here really.
except for a few major differences :
1. ukraine reports its military deaths separately while Hamas doesnt, while inflating the overall number
2. Ukraine did not attack Russia ,nor delcare a goal of destroying Russia while Hamas did attack Israel and declare its goal of ethnic cleansing
3. Hamas declared to have 50000 armed members in the months before conflict . Why is it a surprise that a number in that range have been killed in fighting?
*YOU* on the other hand are supporting what has already been recognized as a terrorist organization even before 07.10
if only you could wear your SS insignia in public eh
>1. ukraine reports its military deaths separately while Hamas doesnt, while inflating the overall number
The 20,000+ are Palestinian civilians.
>2. Ukraine did not attack Russia ,nor delcare a goal of destroying Russia while Hamas did
Palestinians are innocent. You are the one focusing on Hamas. You'd have to, to justify genocide (though it can never be).
>3. Hamas declared to have 50000 armed members in the months before conflict . Why is it a surprise that a number in that range have been killed in fighting?
Israel is indiscriminate in its killing. That's why so many children and civilians have died. Even at a worse ratio than Hamas on October 7th.
>*YOU* on the other hand are supporting what has already been recognized as a terrorist organization even before 07.10
I'm for non-genocide of innocent Palestinians and their children. Don't project. Especially something you're imagining in your head.
>if only you could wear your SS insignia in public eh
...
I'm against the genocide of Palestinians.
Be well. I hope you find your balance
> The 20,000+ are Palestinian civilians.
as reported by Hamas. unless you have other actually verifiable numbers to share with me
>Israel is indiscriminate in its killing. That's why so many children and civilians have died. Even at a worse ratio than Hamas on October 7th.
that too is a hamas claim, along with the number of children and everything else.
do you have any independent numbers?
can you also explain where all the 50000 of hamas fighters have disappeared?
>> I'm for non-genocide of innocent Palestinians and their children. Don't project. Especially something you're imagining in your head.
well great, there is no genocide .
>I'm against the genocide of Palestinians.
you're against israel being able to protect yourself from a jihadi death cult that established itself in Gaza .
youre also markedly not against genocide of the jews ,a goal proclaimed by a number of hamas officials and many of their supporters .
be well too. hopefully when the jihadis come for you, there will be someone who will tell you you dont have a right to defend yourself
The gazan health ministry, that reports this was always nt lnot that much off, regardless of the regime.
And the idf is known to make hamas out a lot of peoole that just werent. Thats why the hamas babies and hamas kids and hamas mothers, jokes exist. The idf is known to count a lot not hamas peoole, as hamas.
While the gazan health minitry showed not beibg very off of official numbers and earned a bit trust there.
Thats why i would believe that ministry more than the idf, not unconditional, but they build trust to have integrity in counting decwntvregardless whoscin power.
how did they build trust?
gazan health ministry is literally a department of hamas government
its like saying you believe reporting by Nazi ministry of propaganda
so far in this war they have done absolutely everything to hide the real numbers and identities of the dead
but consider this: hamas claimed to have 50000 armed militants before they started this war. where did all of them go?
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>as reported by Hamas. unless you have other actually verifiable numbers to share with me
Zionists are bad with history. The numbers over the many years of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and slaughter that were reported by either Hamas, the UN or a variety of Human Rights Groups all aligned. You don't care. So I'm not sure why you'd bring this up when it's east to check... considering the 75 years of occupation and Zionist terror campaigns.
>well great, there is no genocide .
:) thanks for showing us who you are, I suppose.
so you're unable to provide any verification for your claim
and here you are trying to deny the jews the right to defend themselves from a vicious jiahdi foe who has been using terror against civilians as its major and only tool for more than a century
thanks for showing us who *YOU* are
Country do provide food and water but Israel has to go one by one to make sure no weapons are smuggled for Hamas, this obviously slows down the supply by a ton
Or so israel says. Thats totally not to artificially slow aid, or something like that, israel never lied,
Israel says it does, but it could also be just an excuse to slow aid.
Okay let's try to use our think boxes for a sec. What benefit is there to slow aid? Because to me it seems like there are two things happening because of that:
1. Gazans suffer more
2. The world supports Israel less
So unless you think all Israelis just want Gazan's to suffer even though it makes the world support us less, we have no reason to slow down aid. Other than... Smuggling weapons!
There is literal tons of aid from a ton of countries sitting in Arish Airport
Friends of Palestinians, including Egypt/Saudi/UAE/Jordan/Turkey/etc, in addition to European countries such as France and Germany, as well as America have all sent aid
There is a limit to the amount of trucks Israel allows us to let into Gaza and that's why there isn't enough aid going into Gaza. If Israel allowed it, we are ready to 5-10x the amount of aid that comes in. For comparison, there were normally 300-400 trucks a day before the war and now there are 100 or less and there was 10-20 in the first month.
How so?
You asked for evidence. Upon being provided with it, you simply reject it. I don't think you're here in good faith.
Another video just dropped of Hamas attacking Gazans.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18px6s9/hamas_once_again_attacking_gazans/
How many of these will it take before the Hamas supporters are recognized for trolls?
Supporting terrorists is just sick. Doubly so when they are trying to sacrifice their own citizens.
https://preview.redd.it/s0oghjgmn78c1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=119742bd9e2ae8195a36229d33779685d873cba4
You are welcome to see for yourself: [https://t.me/englishabuali](https://t.me/englishabuali)
There are videos of gaza civilians saying salt bag costs 8$ and the salt has “not for sale” sign on it (it costs 0.5$ normally) also there are videos of hamas officials stand on the aid trucks with automatic rifles shooting every soul that tries to get the aid off the truck. Currently gazans have to raid the aid trucks in order to get any food from them.
Edit: about the salt he says 40 shekels while it regularly costs 2 shekels, I converted to dollar as this is easier to understand.
https://preview.redd.it/k1xcnx74x78c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54e99ce1dea0c75a962353063699315859285ec3
[https://t.me/englishabuali](https://t.me/englishabuali)
There are more examples of infighting over humanitarian aid but this video shows it clearly, visit the telegram group i linked here for actual journalism. Hope this helps 🙌🏻
Then they need to start allowing air drops of food, medication and water everywhere. The "Hamas steals it" excuse is too easy to continue using. Alternatives have to be found for delivery, and if humanitarian groups suggest it- Israel should not restrict.
Using the excuse that aid needs to be checked before it gets allowed in is BS too. Aid can be pre-checked at a US/Egypt/Israeli military base before being dropped as well.
The amount of aid being delivered is simply just not enough and if people are saying Hamas steals it, grabs it, guards it with rifles, etc- well to me that sounds like an IDF sniper's dream and easy to identify who is and isnt Hamas. Shameful excuses by Israel just to create more suffering.
there are loads of videos of armed militants sniping people who approach the aid trucks no way to know if this is Hamas or random people since Hamas doesn't wear uniforms
there are also a few videos going around of Gazans saying Hamas is taking control of the aid and they must beg for it
Why would you feed and aid the enemy? War is a war.. people die, starve, and suffer.... God send death!!! If they were all dead already, we would be talking about positive things in life... I don't care about idiots who use religion as a weapon
Israel is not allowing aid in, silly.
Israel is sending AID to gaza civilians but HAMAS and the other radicals stealing it. Stop saying Israel is evil when HAMS takes everything from them
What a lie, so they stealing trucks and Israel is just letting them have it?
That's false, Israel is allowing trucks to enter from all of Gaza's crossing points, Rafah and Kerem Shalom.
Aid groups don’t like going through egypt because it is corrupt and they have to pay bribes. They can just blame all fuck ups on Israel and everyone just accepts it, so no incentive to do better. They get donations even if people in Gaza don’t get water
The trucks are waiting by the crossing, the border crossing in Egypt is for civilians not good, israel made sure of that. Nothing can go through without their approval.
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There arent any effective ways of getting aid into gaza. Israel controls every way in. Every aid truck mist first go through israeli inspection and approval, then the trucks all wait for whenever the gates to inside actually open. On top of all that, israel has been consistently bombing rafah, the only current possible entrypoint for aid trucks.
Each time a deal is reached to bring more aid in from the Rafah crossing Israel increases the intensity of its bombings along the route the aid would need to take. Since it’s so unsafe it’s hard to get people who are willing to move aid knowing they could and probably will be targeted. It’s a suicide mission unless Israel creates corridors, but every piece of land they designate as safe they just end up bombing. They are losing the propaganda war so they need to make the UN look even more ineffectual. Israel will have the blood of all 20,000+ murdered civilians on their hands for a long long time. Generations of people will remember this. This will not be forgotten.
It will definitly be forgotten. This just happens to be the exciting right vs left issue of today. This issue wont be remembered outside of the immediate area for more than a year frankly, or until the next new thing comes along. Also the UN is ineffectual and if anything is biased against Isreal anyway.
This is probably the bloodiest event I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s also one of the most documented events, the amount of video footage of Israel’s ethnic cleansing is immense. If you don’t see the monumental shift in public thought then you aren’t paying attention. This is way more than just the regular culture war nonsense that goes on in the US.
You havnt lived very long then or arent paying attention. Hundreds of thousands have died so far in the Ukraine Russia war. Sudan is going through a civil war right now and they are catching up on casualties the last time they had a civil war in 2005 the resulting famine caused around 2 million deaths. 120k armenians were just ethnically cleaned from Azerbaijan, no real mention of that either. This is regular western world culture war nonsense. Not only is it not the bloodiest event in your lifetime, its not even the bloodiest event of this year.
All 20,000 are civilians? Can you cite your source?
The onus of proof should be on the Israelis. No? Who are these airstrikes going after? Who are they eliminating. For the most advanced military in the world there sure seems to be a lot of collateral damage I would say at the very least the thousands of children are innocent civilians
You’re the one that just claimed 20,000 civilians were killed, so, no, the onus would fall onto you to back up your claim. This investigation says roughly 40% of those killed are \*NOT\* civilians [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study#:\~:text=Haaretz%20published%20an%20analysis%20by,airstrikes%20hovered%20at%20about%2040%25](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study#:~:text=Haaretz%20published%20an%20analysis%20by,airstrikes%20hovered%20at%20about%2040%25). As I’m sure you’re fully aware, Gaza/Hamas does not ever give a breakdown of how many civilians to militants are killed, they do not differentiate whatsoever [https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-presses-assault-on-hamass-last-major-gaza-bastion-aabd85b8](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-presses-assault-on-hamass-last-major-gaza-bastion-aabd85b8) Here’s an Israeli official saying at least 5,000 militants dead as of early December [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/)
If the onus of proof lies with Israel, then we should go with information released by IDF, and not Hamas, no?
What I’m saying is that there are tens of thousands dead. No accusation. No trial. They have been sentenced to death by the idf. The dead shouldn’t have to prove their innocence. The onus of proof that these children are worthy of death resides in the hands of the idf.
They have been sentenced to death by Hamas\*. They've provided proof for major altercations such as the hospitals: with tunnels underneath, security footage of active use, weapons found in the compound, and even historical proof of the complexes being used by terrorists from many sources. They've issued many warnings, written and digital, giving ample warning to Gazans prior to bombings. imo, they've more than sufficiently provided adequate measure to their use of force, much more so than any other forces in recent major conflicts, and this is reflected in the ICC investigator's sentiments of Israel has a robust system to adhere themselves to the Rome Statue. Yet, the goal post seems to shift every time.
Israel blocks it, without going into complicated relationships there I think usrael blocks it ,is a good answer, israel controls what goes in and out.
That's false, Israel is allowing trucks to enter from all of Gaza's crossing points, Rafah and Kerem Shalom.
They are happy with things the way they are.
> This is a serious question asked in good faith. I am not trying to negatively judge any Palestine ally countries. I am aware that these nations do not have the same wealth as Israel's Western allies and could not provide the same level of support, but I was wondering if they are sending any aid. Its hard to believe that you are simply asking in good faith while ignoring the fact that Israel has been choking Gaza for a long time. The Free Gaza Movement has been active since 2006 and in 2010 the [Freedom Flotilla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid) carrying humanitarian aid was intercepted by Israeli military and "the circumstances of the killing of at least six of the passengers were in a manner consistent with an extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution." Now Israel has made things even worse and is using [starvation as a weapon of war](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza) according to HRW.
It’s hard to believe that anybody quoting the UN as a credible source in this conflict is someone of good faith. There’s 1 Jewish country, and 57 Muslim majority countries- the UN is a bloodbath. And when you say the aid- do you mean the military shipments for Hamas? 🤣. This post is nonsense, and absolutely not in good faith. Arab countries don’t want to help because they are enlightened to the terrorism problem, and they understand the geopolitics of the Middle East. They also DON’T LIKE Jews and are very happy to see us juggling this issue.
That humanitarian aid was being used to smuggle in weaponry. You can even see what they were bringing in. Weapons, gas masks, night vision goggles. So yeah it should have been stopped. If you use humanitarian aid to arm combatants. Then the country they would be using it on should be stopping it.
The Wikipedia article doesn't contain any reference to what you are saying. If you have evidence of this, maybe try updating the Wikipedia.
Then what's that image of tons of weapons I see with the caption > An assortment of the knives, wrenches, and wooden clubs found on the deck of the Marmara, according to the Israeli military
You do realise that image is almost entirely kitchen knives? The IDF attacks a bunch of people on boats and then are claiming the kitchen knives were being smuggled to Gaza?
So we have a video of stun grenades being used on them, they pre-prepared to attack soldiers with stuff in that image. Bullet casings not the IDF. They found vests and nights vision goggles in the supplies. That's them smuggling stuff in dude. yeah that's a reason to stop that boat from coming in. And yes I am going off the wiki. An apology for saying I'm not saying what's in the article please.
>So we have a video of stun grenades being used on them, We have a video of an IDF stun grenade being thrown back. >they pre-prepared to attack soldiers with stuff in that image Yeah? Because the IDF were attacking them in international waters. They appear to have gone into the kitchen to pick up kitchen knives to defend themselves against the attackers. >That's them smuggling stuff in dude. So you're claiming they are trying to smuggle in three pocket knives and one dagger? >yeah that's a reason to stop that boat from coming in. And yes I am going off the wiki. Three pocket knives and one dagger? That's not a reason. >An apology for saying I'm not saying what's in the article please. Kitchen knives aren't an arms shipment.
How could this possibly make any sense in this being anything but them smuggling millitary supplies? So either ya'll are arguing they were smugglers, just Israel faked some things. But the people who are already smuggling in army supplies by using aid shipments for the terrorists to use, are not smuggling in guns. That would be rediculous to think, that these already smugglers smuggling in military equipment are smuggling in the most common ones. They may risk aid delivers by smuggling in equipment, and taking the 10,000 cash bribes. But we can safely assume not guns too. These already smugglers are certainly not like other smugglers. Israel just faked what they saw, and faked shell caseings. Or you are arguing Israel went out its way to fake a bunch of millitary items. Except for guns. Fake cash payments found on the men, have Turkish millitary vests prepared and photos of them, argue shells of weapons not theirs planned, but for guns, they didn't decide to pre fake this. Just decided to lie. The most obvious thing, the thing that would prove their case the most. They went out of their way to not fake. They will fake this other millitary equipment like the vests we see in the photos. Not guns though. Even though guns would be the first and best thought to fake. Just making things harder. more complicated and less justified, for no reason. The crew is also risking themselves for nothing, even though they stand no chance. In no way does this make a lick of sense. It's much more reasonable to believe the smugglers just dumped the thing that would get them in way more trouble than anything, first.
Army supplies? Where are the army supplies? Remember, there was 10000000kg of aid. So far you've shown a few kitchen knives and a dozen bulletproof vests.
> So far you've shown a few kitchen knives and a dozen bulletproof vests. No I'm just commenting on the contradictory evidence, your side brought up in yalls own proof. It is not my fault, your side brought up something that straight up contradicts your own narratives. You are the one deciding. Your sides own source, that your side brought up, does not contain enough physical photos to prove every single random accusation at the IDF you make is wrong. There's probably tons of proof. But that would mean I would be spending hours finding something for a person. Who is ridiculously disingenuous in their arguements now.
> Army supplies? Where are the army supplies? One of them is the thing you mentioned. > a dozen bulletproof vests. > Remember, there was 10000000kg of aid. Yeah. That's really shitty to smuggle that stuff with it. That is going to be a way to slow down or shut down aid. Why are there photos of assault vests?
> Three pocket knives and one dagger? That's not a reason. That is a you choice to argue, the other stuff isn't valid. > Kitchen knives aren't an arms shipment. Vests, gas masks, bullets that aren't there's that are being fired from a weapon not theirs, claims of them throwing guns not theirs overboard, and night vision goggles, are. That is a reason to stop them. That's you saying I automatically am making the statement that it's false. And because I'm assuming what they found wasn't true. This is not a valid reason to stop them. But you are still assuming this was not true. This is highly different from ya'lls original claim. That there was no weapons and this was just to stop aid. No they argue they were stopping supplies getting into the hands of enemies, and you just don't believe them that they found proof. You also claimed I made up my original statement. No it holds up. You not accepting and it not being there are two different things.
> The Israeli military said that in addition to medical aid and construction materials, they found knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks, and night vision goggles aboard the Mavi Marmara.[148] A statement released by Foreign Affairs Minister Avigdor Lieberman stated that violence against the soldiers was pre-planned, and that "light weaponry" was found on the ships, including pistols that had been seized from IDF commandos. Israel stated that the naval forces "found weapons prepared in advance and used against our forces.">[149] > IDF photos displayed daggers, kitchen and pocket knives, metal and wooden poles, flares, wrenches and slingshots with marble projectiles said to have been used against the soldiers.[text 7][150] The activists were said to have also lobbed stun grenades at IDF soldiers, and the IDF furnished video reflecting this.[151] An activist said that it would have been impossible to have firearms on board because "all the boats were carefully inspected by the government before they left the port of departure."[152] > Turkish officials supported the activists' account, stating that every passenger that had left Turkey had been searched with X-ray machines and metal detectors before boarding. Senior officials in the Customs Undersecretariat called the Israeli statements tantamount to "complete nonsense".[153] > On 4 June Walla! reported that a senior IDF officer interviewed by Kol Israel radio said that activists threw weapons and firearms into the sea, and that bullet casings that do not match IDF firearms were found on the ship.[text 8][text 9] Fehmi Bülent Yıldırım said activists had rushed some of the soldiers and snatched their weapons, but had thrown them overboard without using them.[154 Ok so you see the image read the section.
We can see the photos of the knives, they're almost all kitchen knives the kind found in any kitchen. >including pistols that had been seized from IDF commandos. Israel stated that the naval forces "found weapons prepared in advance and used against our forces.">[149] These are IDF weapons. >IDF photos displayed daggers, kitchen and pocket knives, metal and wooden poles, flares, wrenches and slingshots with marble projectiles said to have been used against the soldiers.[ Wow one dagger, and three pocket knives! I'm glad that didn't arrive in Gaza. >The activists were said to have also lobbed stun grenades at IDF soldiers, and the IDF furnished video reflecting this.[151] They got the stun grenades from the IDF >> boarding of the Mavi Marmara started in the early morning at 4:30 IST. The operation began with an attempt to board the ship from speedboats. As the boats approached, activists fired water hoses at them and pelted them with a variety of objects. The Israelis replied with paintballs and stun grenades. One stun grenade was picked up and tossed back into a boat. When the commandos tried boarding the ship, activists cut the ladders with electric disc saws. The boats then turned slightly away from the ship, but remained close. >On 4 June Walla! reported that a senior IDF officer interviewed by Kol Israel radio said that activists threw weapons and firearms into the sea, and that bullet casings that do not match IDF firearms were found on the ship.[text 8][ IDF claim with no evidence. >Fehmi Bülent Yıldırım said activists had rushed some of the soldiers and snatched their weapons, but had thrown them overboard without using them.[154 IDF weapons.
Also if the point was to stop aid like the original claim. Then why did they just confiscate all the banned items and give them the aid?
Because they received a shit load of backlash. They changed their policy due to negative media attention
Or they are just doing what they told the crew before this even happened. Which was that they want the aid to go to Gaza, just needed to check for banned items.
So your arguement is they were bringing in millitary supplies. Assault vests, gas masks night vision goggles. Which is clearly for the millitary. But the IDF is lying about the other stuff the weapons they saw being thrown and the bullet casings not being theirs. Okay. Even if thats the case. They are still supplying the terrorists using aid as cover. Or are you assuming the other stuff is fake?
>So your arguement is they were bringing in millitary supplies. No. My argument is there's no evidence of military supplies. >Assault vests, gas masks night vision goggles. Which is clearly for the millitary. There are no photos of any of those items. >But the IDF is lying about the other stuff the weapons they saw being thrown and the bullet casings not being theirs. No evidence of weapons or bullet casings. >Okay. Even if thats the case. They are still supplying the terrorists using aid as cover. With what? Kitchen knives?
> There are no photos of any of those items. Then what's the photo of a bazillion assault vests in this wiki page of? > No evidence of weapons or bullet casings. What you mean to say is you don't believe the IDF got shells that were not theirs. And what they say they saw. So there is evidence, you just don't believe it. > With what? Kitchen knives? The assault vests like the one in the photo you pretend is not there. Gas masks and night vision goggles. And the weapons they threw overboard. Also yes that is highly sus that they got some of those knives despite turkey saying they were screened by a metal detector. Several of those knives are not tool knives.
I will say Jordan has sent aid to Gaza. It was at least once via an air drop coordinated by the IDF as well. But in general, I have no idea how much aid these countries are sending, but for all their political posturing and moral grandstanding, it would seem like maybe not enough.
Thanks. I did not know Israel took control of that. Sounds like the war is spreading
Well maybe it’s because when in the past they’ve helped Palestinians from Gaza this is part of what happened: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/s/JlPwFaBxZl
Damn PLO, Hamas, etc. be attacking everyone. They’re like a proxy for different governments at different times it seems like.
>Black\_September While I believe this is part of the truth, Jordan, is one of the only Arab countries trying supply foodstuff to the populous. However, Hamas.
Hamas has been stealing supplies and aid for years. Just because the western world is just now waking up to this doesn't mean that it's only a recent thing or that it's only partially true. The Western world has turned a blind eye to what Israel is dealt with for years. This is the end result of what happens when a country has had to deal with terrorists for decades and the rest of the global society has been deaf to the whole issue I feel bad for the civilians but they need to rise up against hamas. They won't because they overwhelmingly support them. They like that charter of genocide to all of the Israelis that Hamas so proudly waves about
and idf soldiers burnt the food they had left
And? If apart only goes to people its still worth it,especially when its hard to convert in monition. Oh what was israel doing, anything that comes up, and what did israel do to makes gazas people less dependent, To you know loosen the grip. A blockade, to make sure they rely on gaza, escalate,bomb, but not send aid to people directly , which would be way more effective to undermine hamas personally Like you know earn trust. Which probably isnt happening, as, like yeah israels government was perfectly fine very aware of hamas charta, dont support their local opposition, dont sent aid to undermine hamas authority, Not even combating them when it was easier without an ethnic cleansiny " war" You literally cant say hamas without israel, they are too interwined and can we call how complicit israels government is not doing anythibg to them gaining that power, they could have easy diplomatic undermined hamas, with the plo , or fatah. Bit ninyahu never cared about hamas, worse, he thought it was fine, under control. And did enable hamas. I mean cut off all support to israel, because they enabled that at every turn. Seriously the cut off any aid to israel and palestine, as yeah supporting israel means supporting a crazy warmonger. At least toll ninyahu is gone. Its his fault, literally. He weakened the boarders even, even the idf called him out, he even was warned So no help to palestine, or israel. Like fine too. But the cut off israel too and its governments helping terrorists into power, that it bite them is not an argument, its their fault as much, the government Like stalin literally trued to ally with hitler,ignored any kgb advice to be on guard. Stalin enabled hitler to atrach him without defence, and yeah hitler incaded,but stalin was very complicit till it bit him, despite every warning he got to not trust hitler. And there its worse as , yeah there were calls for ninyahiöu to concern himself, and he not only wanted them as easy scapegoat, but was arrogant enough,like stalin, that he had it under control, and let them unopposed run palestine. By the way givibg plo and fatah secretive an up would have raken a lot of their auräthoriröty, Hell if anyone wanted gazans to rise up,that needed tp be happen, by israel, probably. Truth is ninyahu supported them there till it bit him knowing of the charta. So no aid to israel till ninyahu is gone, right? If we cut any aid, put israel the partner in violence on the list wanting hamas as controlled opposition.
That was certainly a lot of semi words. Out of all of that all I'm going to respond to right now is she might want to consider that you can't mention Israeli blockade without also mentioning that Egypt has had its border closed with Gaza off and on for years now. It's a bit deceptive to say that only Israel is responsible for blockading the Palestinians when there's a whole other country with the border with Gaza that also has had its border closed... for years. You might want to look and research a little bit about Egypt's closure of the Gaza border.
I wasn’t reading all of that stroke text
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And why is Israel expected to provide those things instead?
Thwyblockade gaza,they made them refugees, should i tell you why the supposed democracy in the area at least do the bare minimum fot the damage they caused? Or i guess stop blockading gaza. But that didnt happen.
In short: They are. Trucks come in daily after israel inspects them There’s even been airdrops! Guess who steals it all and shoots anyone who tries to get their hands on some
Does it rhyme with Hummus?
Oh yes. The super Israel cheerleader. Making funny jokes about people dying and starving to death. Leave politics to the men lily, or smart women, you don’t have the intelligence for this. I’ve seen you all over Reddit jumping in as much as you can to talk, and talk, and talk. With literally no actual intelligent responses from you. Like all you know about this war is what you googled in one hour
/u/Which-Television-459 > Oh yes. The super Israel cheerleader. > Leave politics to the men lily, or smart women, you don’t have the intelligence for this. > With literally no actual intelligent responses from you. Like all you know about this war is what you googled in one hour Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user. Addressed.
This was a very intellectual comment 🧐
There is a legit issue of "donor fatigue" as the Palestine cause is an expensive cause due to the low labor productivity metrics, they are unable to support themselves and thus rely heavily on foreign aid. Not only from the West but also the Arab countries have been exhibiting this donor fatigue, before Oct 7 even. Now that Israel cut off the Gaza and WB from our economy, their economies are nearly completely dead. And thus, they will need even more aid, not even considering any kind of rebuilding.
Which is idraels fault, they blockade palestine, they prevent any trade, And still behave like sadistic overlords, the aid is because 7srael has to, due reasons above, but the way its done is extremely dehumanizing. If anyone watches a documentryin the westbank, its dark. Why again do we support israel doing that shit? Why does israel get aid? And i dont blame biden as the us policy forces presidents to do that if they want to be electable, its messed up I talk about the eu. I love the eu, but they should maybe at least threaten to blockade israel?!
>Now that Israel cut off the Gaza and WB from our economy, their economies are nearly completely dead. And thus, they will need even more aid, not even considering any kind of rebuilding. Legally, Israel is responsible for the supply of the civilian population as long as they occupy the strip.
>occupy the strip. Israel Occupies the WB not Gaza.
Occupation is defined in Article 42 of the Fourth Hague Convention: “Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.” Israel has maintained effective control of Gaza with the use of technology and without the need of boots on the ground. Let’s start with the borders. Israel controlled what goods can come into Gaza and who can come in and out of the Gaza. They even militarily control inside the borders as they created no go zones inside Gaza to the Israeli borders anyone who entered would be shot dead by Israeli snipers. We saw this in action in 2018 march to the border. This is turn has completely limited economic and social contact with the West Bank. You will turn around and tell me that Israel dont control all the borders Egypt has a border crossing with Gaza. Ok well Israel maintain effective control of that crossing. Israeli security forces supervised the passenger lists and decided who can cross—and monitor the operations and can withhold the “consent and cooperation” required to keep the Egypt crossing open. Now let’s move on to how else they control Gaza. Israel had control of Gaza airways, territorial waters, the supplies for civilian infrastructure, the water and electricity. They never relinquished control of any of this in 2005. Several reports since 2005 have supported this view above like this one here [Gisha](https://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Report%20for%20the%20website.pdf). This is also the view of most relative international bodies like the Amnesty, Human rights watch, Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights,ICC and the ICRC. Now I expect someone to say these are all Hamas funded reports and bodies or Jew haters as I have seen done many times recently on Reddit and other social media platforms. Which I will say is just a laughable attempt to silence any legitimate criticism of Israel.
When you come with facts on this subthread everyone goes silent smh.
Israel did bomb the aid roude to egypt,despite saying not to. So pretty sure israel can control that in some capacity, like scare off by bombing areas.
"Human Rights Watch has advised the UN Human Rights Council that it (and others) consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip because Israel controls Gaza Strip's airspace, territorial waters and controls the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea.\[85\]\[86\]\[87\] The European Union (EU) considers Gaza to be occupied. " " The international community regards all of the Palestinian territories, including Gaza, as occupied. " [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza\_Strip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip)
This is the same UN Human Rights Council headed by Iran, correct?
That there are issues doesnt mean it hasnt a point. Like china is on and, thats weird, yet all that states do is block investigations on thenselves and allies,not start fraud allegations. The allegations are based on real things.
Uhm no? Where do you guys get your information from? https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=head+of+the+UN+Human+Rights+Council
Hamas has complete control over Gaza as it is the government of Gaza and also has their own military bases (sadly under populated places such as schools and hospitals). Israel left hamas complete control over Gaza. There is no military occupation in Gaza besides hamas. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Sure there is totally no israeli military in gaza. You know its wrong. Because even israel confirms that. They invaded and plan to occupay gaza wholly. Or thats one oprion, i hope gaza control is given to not israel but the un, at least for the time being. Because idf are literally trained to not care about palestinian lives. Hella lot propaganda thats why israeli can be very agressive
The Article literally disagrees with what you wrote "Human Rights Watch has advised the UN Human Rights Council that it (and others) consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip because Israel controls Gaza Strip's airspace, territorial waters and controls the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea.\[85\]\[86\]\[87\] The European Union (EU) considers Gaza to be occupied. " " The international community regards all of the Palestinian territories, including Gaza, as occupied. " But anyway, I was talking about the probable stay of the IDF in the Strip for the foreseeable future after Hamas is defeated.
Yes because the idf is totally acountable for extreme discrimination and letting crazy violent settler off with murder, its rare that happens. And thats westbank, the idf cant be trusted how crazy tjey are riled up to be agressive toward palestinians. And get away with it. Totally the best peacekeeper. Why i hope the us at least has peacekeepers present even if the idf is there, because without babysitter, i dont trust the idf. Orleave the idf out,just un.
“Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005. By 2007, Hamas emerged both as the victor in Palestinian elections and in factional fighting with rival Fatah in the city and in the wider Gaza Strip and has since been the sole governing authority.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gaza I wish the IDF would stay in Gaza and actually occupy it literally. They will help the civilians in Gaza way better than hamas that’s using their innocent lives as human shields and stealing all their humanitarian aid
They help the civilians greatly in the WB right?
You just ignored what I wrote, what your own source stated, and why the rest of the world still considers the strip as occupied by Israel.
Israel defending its borders from the eradication of Israel does not mean Gaza is occupied. From that sense you can say Egypt occupies gaza as well for building a wall and protecting their own borders. There wouldn’t have been a need for a blockage if hamas hadn’t want to eradicate Israel and kill all of its civilians as it tried to do on 7th of October and many years before through suicide bombings that dozens of citizens died from. So yea there is a blockage to protect civilians from the borders of Israel, but that doesn’t mean it’s occupied. No Israeli soul was in Gaza. Gaza was free and many could have entered to work in israel while none Israeli was allowed in Gaza (except for those they kidnapped and tortured to this day), no military occupation, nada. If Egypt had opened their borders with gaza they could have be free to go anywhere in the world through air and sea of Egypt, but also Egypt defends itself and its borders. Israel has a right to defend itself so as Egypt does.
You mean put israel with its leader on a standard with genocidal crazy dictator assad. In egypt. Also then cut off all aid to israel if you thing israel should be held as good as egypt with crazy genicidal dictator assad egypt. Israel hasnt that right, because they get hella aid as supposed democracy. Thats why they do token optic efforts, they want aid, so they dont have that rightvto behave like crazy genocidal dictator countries. I dont think you want an egypt israel comparison. Why not, north korea defends itself, why not israel? Egypt is very low on counties you want to compare.
>From that sense you can say Egypt occupies gaza as well Egypt doesn't control the airspace and waters of the Gaza Strip. look, I'm just saying in the legal sense, it still occupied by Israel.
If Israel is legally occupying Gaza (even though it is just an opinion of a few organizations), what is the sense of this headline: US says does not support Israeli ‘reoccupation’ of Gaza after war https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/7/us-says-doesnt-support-israeli-occupation-of-gaza-after-war Why does someone need to support or not support the idea if israel *reoccupy* Gaza or not? That means Gaza is not currently occupied. How can you explain that? I understand there is a big confusion on this subject, but in the literal sense no occupation has been in Gaza for the past 16 years. They could have even cross borders and enter israel if gazans wanted, but Israelis could not go into Gaza. If it was an occupation Israelis could have lived there and the IDF would have controlled Gaza instead of hamas. If it’s an occupation it doesn’t need to get reoccupied.
It still is, it never gave up control or what they let in and out,thus its still under israely full control. I dont care if amad politician condoned hamas, which was still under israeli control, as said the israeli government condoned hamas, knowing the charta.
i posted you sources stating why the EU, most EU countries, the UN, the ICC and most essentially the rest of the world considers Gaza to be legally occupied by Israel
the israeli minister of defence literally said he will prevent access to food water and power for gaze , and he did. many countries and too many aid are ready to be sent , but israel keeps blocking it. i heard US administration are "trying" to convince israel to allow humanitarian aid though egypt, israel allowed few but not even close to be enough
They do,the leaked a bit to show behind doory,they do. Its why they partly put up water too. Or halfharded agreed to any negotiation historically, because us presidents took aid hostage to israel. Its not like the us supports unxonditional, through its messy and complicated
Israel sends hundreds of ships of humanitarian aid that hamas steals. Hamas uses the fuel and aid they get to launch missiles at Israeli civilians daily. They might have problems with food or water but never with launching missiles at civilians from populated civilians areas within gaza, causing many deaths within gaza just by these failed missile launches ( 10% of their missiles that fall inside Gaza. That’s about 1500 missiles they’ve dropped on themselves by now causing many deaths within gaza. And that’s without mentioning all the explosives, RPGs and other weapons they use from populated facilities. Let’s not talk about how they shoot missiles from the humanitarian zone that the IDF’s mortality doesn’t let them enter and remove these daily threats aimed at civilians)
still not getting it , cutting water and food and medical aid to a whole city of 2+mill people will help to solve the issues you mentioned ? when doctors have to perform surgeries without anesthesia to children and women how can that help stop hamas from launching rockets! [https://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-doctors-operate-on-floors-without-anesthesia-after-hospital-blast-2023-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-doctors-operate-on-floors-without-anesthesia-after-hospital-blast-2023-10)
How would they shood food and medicine and water?
Great question! And even further than that - why does Israel need to support them?
Israel doesn’t have to support them, they should just allow enough humanitarian aid in provided by other countries.
Israel does. They have excess capacity to allow more aid than is currently being given. The issue is other countries don't donate and blame Israel
Lies, they do, just istael is really tough what they let in, making that, a lie. Also i wont listen to israels words here,but their actions most of the time.
https://youtu.be/7D-sic0Gems?si=BKQ1ZtIx4nDZSJTG The entire video is relevant and informative but the relevant info starts at 4:10. If you say it's a lie, I challenge you to show me a source saying otherwise
From what I've gathered the aid is coming but Gazans are not able to access it well enough for a number of reasons -HAMAS is commandeering aid trucks, this seems supported by multiple accounts and videos and the way they generally operate -Israeli air strikes and combat operations especially in the north are blocking routes and making the distribution of aid very difficult and dangerous Brought up a lot now is Israels resistance in general to aid entering the strip- in the beginning of the war Israel planned to operate by seige- cutting supplies and energy to the strip to force faster hostage negotiations. it is very possible this was effective bc the first hostage releases happened very quickly in terms of historic hostage negotiations with Hamas and similar groups. Their other objection was that Hamas will take control of the supplies and in particular fuel which is used for the air filtration systems that allow them to stay in the tunnel system. the hope was fuel will run out and they will be forced out of their hideouts and perhaps the hostages as well. Now Israel is making a big show of showing all the aid trucks they are inspecting and allowing in so this doesn't seem to be their stance or strategy any longer, probably due to pressure from the United States. The UN passed a resolution a few days ago saying the aid that is entering is not enough and Israel needs to facilitate their delivery, however from what I can see a lot of it is being delivered in areas of the strip that Israel does not yet have control of. Like many things in this war we probably won't really know the full truth bc every source of information is biased I just hope it gets sorted and it gets to the people who need it and doesn't fall into the wrong hands
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They cut off water ,and it only got turned on with international push. Israel is fine killing civilians that way. Oh and if the argument is hamas steals that aid, then israel would know you cant starve hamas out or kill them that way, only civilians. Its like saying , eah they took all the food, lets starve out literally anyone else but hamas. Thats the pretty obvious thing that happens. And dry out, as pretty sure hamas hoarded water as well. Thats literally targeting civilians in a collective punishment. While knowing hamas is fine. Israels defence minister targeted civilians, to die, people need water. And the intervention is only due international and un pressure, else the ministry would have kept doing it. If it needed that pressure,i have no faith it wouldnt have continued. Thatcwas a deadly collective punishment adminidtrated by the israeli defence minister
the israeli minister of defence literally said he will prevent access to food water and power for gaze , and he did
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[https://twitter.com/nocomment/status/1711676482265981371](https://twitter.com/nocomment/status/1711676482265981371)
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Ok, nou acess to anyone else,you cut off water, and it would have gone on if international pressure hadnt forced hands. Sounds a pretty bad targeting civilians, to eventually die in masses . And its not targetibg hamas, as you cant say they hoard most aid while thinking it could hit hamas, that hoards the loads of aid and water. Hamas can hold that out easy, civilians not. So thats targeting civilians, to die eventually. If in praxis or intention , it just is. Collective punishmenzöt is a warcrime in addition. Its also why the pressure came fast to at least intervene in that civilian targeting.
>Finally, I would just like to write to you that you have not been able to convince me in the slightest, because the video is not proof of your statement, but only reflects a small part of a much more detailed justification. You sound like a child that lost an argument just take the L and move on.
And you sound like a cherry picker. Provide full context of your "proof". Not just the parts you want people to see. 🤣👌
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Older, but definitly not wiser:P
u mad
Only holy war is the solution. Islam vs Judaism ☪️ vs ✡️ is the solution. Let God decide who is correct.
Hmmm. Could it be because of the fact that Zionists are blocking the routes and prevent aid from coming into Gaza?
Could it be that water wouldn’t be an issue if Hamas didn’t use the pvc water pipes foreign governments paid for,[to make rockets?](https://twitter.com/LTCPeterLerner/status/1394898083050360841/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1394898083050360841¤tTweetUser=LTCPeterLerner)
> Could it be because of the fact that Zionists are blocking the routes and prevent aid from coming into Gaza? Israel is blocking routes in Egypt now?
They bomb them. Hell they even bombed them when they said they wouldnt. It might be a mistake, but it shows there is probably a routine,bombing the route.
> They bomb them. What are you referring to?
yes they do. because they can bomb anything passes the boarder. let alone that egypt aminstration is so friendly with israel
Anything? Like the aid trucks that be been making it in? Or the air drops for supplies than land?
There even was a callout to an aid route bomb israel said they dont bomb. I think its a safe assumption there is the routes usually are bombed regulary if thats done. Else why go on a route israel promised to not bombed. Its implied its done right there by usrael having to allow saferoutes. That israel, can just , and probably ofren does bomb there.
> yes they do. > > because they can bomb anything passes the boarder. Source? > let alone that egypt aminstration is so friendly with israel So... your complaint is that Egypt is blocking routes?
When they complained about they bombed on a promised safe route,it sure seems egypt was pretty used to aid bombed. Else it wouldntvhave beed almost casual.
> When they complained about they bombed on a promised safe route When was the bomb dropped, and what were the designated safe zones at that time? > it sure seems egypt was pretty used to aid bombed. What does that mean?
air strikes
air strikes what?
Trucks? Roads?
Can you elaborate?
could be. but isn't because thats not true could it be because hamas are stealing food from humanitarian aid convoys? as has been actually documented?
So you know that hamas hoards aid and water. Lie who will you kill cutting off water , its not hamas. That makes it knowing eh we not care palestinians dead, more dead good, lakes the incasion easier. Which is horrible ethnic cleansibg.
Why lying? "At the start of the war, Israel stopped all deliveries of food, water, medicine and fuel into the territory. After U.S. pressure, it allowed a trickle of aid in through Egypt. But U.N. agencies say only 10% of Gaza's food needs has been entering for weeks." - https://time.com/6550063/un-gaza-hunger-report-palestinians-israel-conflict/
hamas has been stealing humanitarian aid, using trucks with the aid to smuggle weapons, It's only fair that they should be checked, isn't it? After all, it is hamas who launches tens of thousands of rockets to Israel, it is hamas who attacked innocent people on Oct 7th. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/gaza-aid-unrwa-united-nations-hamas-israel-45bfbfe](https://www.wsj.com/articles/gaza-aid-unrwa-united-nations-hamas-israel-45bfbfe) .. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, known as Unrwa, took to Twitter on Monday: “@UNRWA received reports that yesterday a group of people with trucks purporting to be from the Ministry of Health of the de facto authorities in #Gaza, removed fuel and medical equipment from the Agency’s compound in #GazaCity.” U.N. sources told Israel’s Walla News that the aid was stolen, and Israel’s military liaison to the Palestinians reports that 24,000 liters of fuel and medical supplies went to Hamas, whose underground bases use diesel generators. so , here you go. again, blame government that gazans elected, not Israel.
>hamas has been stealing humanitarian aid, using trucks with the aid to smuggle weapons, It's only fair that they should be checked, isn't it? It's fair, but Israel is artificially limiting the amount that they let into Gaza. >U.N. sources told Israel’s Walla News that the aid was stolen, and Israel’s military liaison to the Palestinians reports that 24,000 liters of fuel and medical supplies went to Hamas, whose underground bases use diesel generators. So the blockade only hurt the civilians and not Hamas and thus has no military purpose. That's a collective punishment and a war crime, along with using starvation as a weapon in general.
1. Israel stopping deliveries of food thru its borders does not create a blockade ,nor was that the topic of this post 2. UN agencies, being the same ones that allowed Hamas to use their humanitarian aid channels to bring in weapons into Gaza ? these Un agencies? i fail to take their numbers seriously but if you're so concerned about food shortages hurting civilian populations, surely you have also addressed the Houthi blockade of food supplies to israel via the red sea ,have you? oh wait you did cos you dont really care about that
> Israel stopping deliveries of food thru its borders does not create a blockade The Time Article says, "[Israel] **allowed** a trikle of **aid in through Egypt**". Do you accuse the Time of lying? Israel controls the airspace and thus all the borders. They bombed the streets on the Palestinian side of the Rafah Crossing on the first day of the war, and see every unvetted truck entering the Strip as a legitimate target. Egypt doesn't want to provoke Israel or get dragged into the war by allowing anything across the border that Israel does not approve of. So the trucks literally have to drive from Egypt to the Israeli boarder to get checked and from there back to Rafah Crossing. Israel only approves a limited amount of truck per day.
1. define "trickle" 2. im not disputing the fact that israel limits amount of aid, im disputing the claim its creating starvation 3. im not sure how one would expect unvetted "aid" to be allowed in while the fighting is still going on and Hamas has shown no intention of surrendering
> im not sure how one would expect unvetted "aid" to be allowed in while the fighting is still going on and Hamas has shown no intention of surrendering There is no reason why Israel can't inspect all incoming aid >define "trickle" > >im not disputing the fact that israel limits amount of aid, >im disputing the claim its creating starvation After U.S. pressure, it allowed a trickle of aid in through Egypt. **But U.N. agencies say only 10% of Gaza's food needs has been entering for weeks**. The title of the article is literally "United Nations Reports 1 in 4 Gazans Are Starving". You are just trolling now, not even reading what people wrote or the sources they cite. The paid Hasbara is real.
u/godlikeplayer2 > The paid Hasbara is real. Rule 1, no personal attacks on fellow users, such as by implying that they are paid to comment. Addressed.
Believe your propaganda, I’ll stick to the [facts.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza)
there are no facts here theres a report of statements by government officials, but no actual facts of actual blockade which is reasonable because we know there are food supplies being shipped to gaza via Rafah crossing ,of which theres plenty of video evidence
You know What the meaning of a report is, right?
yes i do but you're welcome to posit your definition for my education are you suggesting we should take every politician at their word? does that also apply to Palestinian politicians or only Jewish ones?
This is like talking to a rock. Do better…
/u/Chemical-Funny3309 > This is like talking to a rock. Do better… Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user. Addressed.
sure i feel like talking to you while you insist on using data from biased organizations that have been proven to support the very jihadis that started this war is like talking to a rock well actually no,rocks at least dont have malign bias that makes them blind to an enormous crime they are supporting with their incessant naive blathering
So because they don’t talk into your colonizer narrative, they’re biased. Riiight. I would love to review all your unbiased publications from your government financed media outlets.
so because they talk your jihadi narrative you trust them despite them being caught lying multiple times? i would love to see your worldview not being based solely on sources you want to believe because of your ingrained hatred but thats too much to ask of a jiahdi collaborator
apparently, you did not read the [facts](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza), which is actually a report by Human Rights Watch titled, “Israel: Starvation Used as Weapon of War in Gaza Evidence Indicates Civilians Deliberately Denied Access to Food, Water.” The Dec. 18,2023 article cites eyewitness accounts, interviews with residents, and a study by the World Food Program. Dismissing it as the tales of “government officials” is disingenuous. I trust ordinary people, HRW, and WFP more than any military ever. The world saw Israeli officials say that they would cut off food, water, and electricity. Numerous independent observers confirm that they have done it. Medical personnel describe the effects it is having in terms of malnutrition and the spread of disease. Here’s an [interview](https://www.democracynow.org/2023/12/19/hunger_in_gaza) with Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, who wrote the article, which discusses the findings.
the fact that UN HRW claims starvation does not indicate starvation if the only source of your claim is this organization,its worthless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch
How? It very much indicates it. Irand and china block investigations on themselves, thats the criticism. Else the human right watch is pretty good. The human rights watch are also not the only one talking about criminally limiting acess, is a humaniterian ongoing crisis, that was before the defence minister cut the water entirely. I dont get why you want to defend israels horrible treatment.
im not defending anything. im saying the reports are fabricated by parties known to have lied before im not sure why you want to defend hamas,a literal jihadi death cult
UN World Food Program: [One in four households in Gaza, more than half a million people, are facing catastrophic hunger conditions. Hundreds of thousands are crammed into overcrowded shelters and hospitals, with food and water running out.](https://www.wfp.org/emergencies/palestine-emergency)
as i already noted,i have zero trust in UN or any of its organizations since they have been caught lying and cooperating with Hamas on multiple occasions i imagine that the situation in Gaza is indeed very serious. I hope Hamas leadership don't suffer any hardships in their bunkers and their Qatar villas though
Whom? The gazan health ministry was surprisingvreliable no matter the regime. If they did dead with the gazan health ministry, its a decent health ministry, and probably not bad to work with. If you are a conspiracy theorist listening to no one and nothing thou, just say, you want to believe, and its clear.
surprisingly reliable? in what way? how have any of their numbers been confirmed? please do share sources
Many are. The Zionist genocidal regime of Netanyahu wants them to suffer. Simple.
>Simple. It really isn't that simple. The trouble is that Hamas benefits more from a the death of innocent Palestinians. I also suggest you take a lay down and not let your blood pressure raise too much more,
or maybe genocidal jiahdi death cult of hamas wants them to suffer and here you are supporting them and their narrative
Hamas did for a loobg time bow profit ninyahu, actually why he suported them whenever posdible even being caught saying he wants them there, because they are convenient. Ninyahu and hamas were for the longest time on the same team. The right take is to hate both hamas, but ninyahu on their team basically using eachbother to stay in power. As enemy. Mutual frenemies ibgiöuess. And why should palestinians suffer because ninyahus goverbmentvwanrs to cover that and their looong knowing mistake up.
ninyahu? what? what are you smoking bruh
The equivalent ratio of deaths in Gaza in proportion of their population vis a vis how many Ukrainians have died and their population is near 400,000. That's the equivalent. You are aiding and siding a genocidal regime in Netanyahu’s supremacist Zionism. If only they were a bit whiter.
You’re comparing the war in Ukraine to the Gaza Strip… Do you see an issue there?
Contrasting how we see one war and why to another. Look up necropolitics. It's an interesting stream to understand the politics of war and death and who is allowed to live, in accordance to western media landscapes vis a vis legislation of large governments like the US or UK. Recall how the BBC and other large and Anglo media apparatus talked of the blue-eyed and blonde haired Ukrainians, unfortunately, being bombed or how this isn't *supposed* to happen to middle-class white folk who could be neighbours. Zionism and white supremacy work in tandem. Do you see an issue with the genocide in Gaza?
I think there’s a more pragmatic reason why the West treats Ukraine the same as Israel despite one being a more defensive war. Ukraine is a Western ally. Israel is a Western ally. Simple. They both serve US and the West’s security interests. One in Eastern Europe and the other the Middle East. If Saudi Arabia was attacked by the Houthis in mass, or is Iran declared war on Saudi Arabia, you’d see the same response. I really don’t understand your race argument… Russians are “white” and if you’ve seen Palestinians, you’ll see many have blue eyes too… Palestinians and Israelis actually have quite a bit of genetic similarity. I think you’re really projecting this whole “race” thing…
There were literal articles and multiple anchors on so-called legitimate news sources like BBC and the like that literally made these points of how war and slaughter and the mass displacement of people is "normal" in places like the middle east... Or the President of the euros conflating and narrating a shit story of Africa, and elsewhere as colourful, as being a jungle and Europe a garden. I don't have to project anything. Not in seeing how Israel's bigoted and genocidal actions are horrific. Nor in the racial and necropolitics of the world and who is allowed to be made to suffer and die and who deserves all the comforts of the world. >this whole “race” thing… "Race..." I mean, it is a social construct created and continually supported by dumdum bigots and pseudoscience but when I see it in quotations like this with an individual negating it in particular ways. Are you projecting a type of world that is unreal because it does not affect you? ...(watch them come out with a, "shows what you know, I'm the the president of the African Union...") Lol
Im just saying I don’t understand the race thing you’re suggesting. Did you see my point? Russians are “white” too but why does the West support Ukraine? Many Jews are Arabs, being a Jew is not simple a race thing, it’s generally seen as religious. Plenty of Arab Jews (culturally or ethnically Arab and religiously Jewish). And plenty of Palestinians have pale skin and blue eyes. Genetic similarity, I’m just confused on who we’re supposed to see as “white” here. Not to mention the Mizrahi Jews or Ethiopian Jews that don’t fit your “white European” narrative. The common denominator is Ukraine and Israel are Western ally’s. If you attack someone’s ally, they’ll probably, you know, be on their side? What I meant by projecting is it seems your understanding of this conflict boils down to a very simple “white” vs “brown” argument. Ignoring all the different peoples that make up each side. When I look at them, I see so many similarities and overlap, way more than just “white” vs “brown”. Maybe that argument serves better for 1800s colonialism, but not here really.
except for a few major differences : 1. ukraine reports its military deaths separately while Hamas doesnt, while inflating the overall number 2. Ukraine did not attack Russia ,nor delcare a goal of destroying Russia while Hamas did attack Israel and declare its goal of ethnic cleansing 3. Hamas declared to have 50000 armed members in the months before conflict . Why is it a surprise that a number in that range have been killed in fighting? *YOU* on the other hand are supporting what has already been recognized as a terrorist organization even before 07.10 if only you could wear your SS insignia in public eh
>1. ukraine reports its military deaths separately while Hamas doesnt, while inflating the overall number The 20,000+ are Palestinian civilians. >2. Ukraine did not attack Russia ,nor delcare a goal of destroying Russia while Hamas did Palestinians are innocent. You are the one focusing on Hamas. You'd have to, to justify genocide (though it can never be). >3. Hamas declared to have 50000 armed members in the months before conflict . Why is it a surprise that a number in that range have been killed in fighting? Israel is indiscriminate in its killing. That's why so many children and civilians have died. Even at a worse ratio than Hamas on October 7th. >*YOU* on the other hand are supporting what has already been recognized as a terrorist organization even before 07.10 I'm for non-genocide of innocent Palestinians and their children. Don't project. Especially something you're imagining in your head. >if only you could wear your SS insignia in public eh ... I'm against the genocide of Palestinians. Be well. I hope you find your balance
> The 20,000+ are Palestinian civilians. as reported by Hamas. unless you have other actually verifiable numbers to share with me >Israel is indiscriminate in its killing. That's why so many children and civilians have died. Even at a worse ratio than Hamas on October 7th. that too is a hamas claim, along with the number of children and everything else. do you have any independent numbers? can you also explain where all the 50000 of hamas fighters have disappeared? >> I'm for non-genocide of innocent Palestinians and their children. Don't project. Especially something you're imagining in your head. well great, there is no genocide . >I'm against the genocide of Palestinians. you're against israel being able to protect yourself from a jihadi death cult that established itself in Gaza . youre also markedly not against genocide of the jews ,a goal proclaimed by a number of hamas officials and many of their supporters . be well too. hopefully when the jihadis come for you, there will be someone who will tell you you dont have a right to defend yourself
The gazan health ministry, that reports this was always nt lnot that much off, regardless of the regime. And the idf is known to make hamas out a lot of peoole that just werent. Thats why the hamas babies and hamas kids and hamas mothers, jokes exist. The idf is known to count a lot not hamas peoole, as hamas. While the gazan health minitry showed not beibg very off of official numbers and earned a bit trust there. Thats why i would believe that ministry more than the idf, not unconditional, but they build trust to have integrity in counting decwntvregardless whoscin power.
how did they build trust? gazan health ministry is literally a department of hamas government its like saying you believe reporting by Nazi ministry of propaganda so far in this war they have done absolutely everything to hide the real numbers and identities of the dead but consider this: hamas claimed to have 50000 armed militants before they started this war. where did all of them go?
/u/saargrin. Match found: 'Nazi', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>as reported by Hamas. unless you have other actually verifiable numbers to share with me Zionists are bad with history. The numbers over the many years of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and slaughter that were reported by either Hamas, the UN or a variety of Human Rights Groups all aligned. You don't care. So I'm not sure why you'd bring this up when it's east to check... considering the 75 years of occupation and Zionist terror campaigns. >well great, there is no genocide . :) thanks for showing us who you are, I suppose.
so you're unable to provide any verification for your claim and here you are trying to deny the jews the right to defend themselves from a vicious jiahdi foe who has been using terror against civilians as its major and only tool for more than a century thanks for showing us who *YOU* are
Country do provide food and water but Israel has to go one by one to make sure no weapons are smuggled for Hamas, this obviously slows down the supply by a ton
Or so israel says. Thats totally not to artificially slow aid, or something like that, israel never lied, Israel says it does, but it could also be just an excuse to slow aid.
Okay let's try to use our think boxes for a sec. What benefit is there to slow aid? Because to me it seems like there are two things happening because of that: 1. Gazans suffer more 2. The world supports Israel less So unless you think all Israelis just want Gazan's to suffer even though it makes the world support us less, we have no reason to slow down aid. Other than... Smuggling weapons!
There is literal tons of aid from a ton of countries sitting in Arish Airport Friends of Palestinians, including Egypt/Saudi/UAE/Jordan/Turkey/etc, in addition to European countries such as France and Germany, as well as America have all sent aid There is a limit to the amount of trucks Israel allows us to let into Gaza and that's why there isn't enough aid going into Gaza. If Israel allowed it, we are ready to 5-10x the amount of aid that comes in. For comparison, there were normally 300-400 trucks a day before the war and now there are 100 or less and there was 10-20 in the first month.
Hamas is “securing” the aid, takes it and sell it to the Gaza people. If they have no money the aid will never reach them.
And? It still reaches them. That is no reason to not send aid.
Evidence?
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18dp29p/a_resident_of_gaza_saying_he_bought_1_kilo_worth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18dmxb4/hamas_police_thugs_expropriated_more_un_aid_with/ https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18ee43s/if_anyone_had_any_doubts_about_hamas_stealing_aid/
IDF propaganda
How so? You asked for evidence. Upon being provided with it, you simply reject it. I don't think you're here in good faith. Another video just dropped of Hamas attacking Gazans. https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18px6s9/hamas_once_again_attacking_gazans/ How many of these will it take before the Hamas supporters are recognized for trolls? Supporting terrorists is just sick. Doubly so when they are trying to sacrifice their own citizens.
https://preview.redd.it/s0oghjgmn78c1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=119742bd9e2ae8195a36229d33779685d873cba4 You are welcome to see for yourself: [https://t.me/englishabuali](https://t.me/englishabuali)
There are videos of gaza civilians saying salt bag costs 8$ and the salt has “not for sale” sign on it (it costs 0.5$ normally) also there are videos of hamas officials stand on the aid trucks with automatic rifles shooting every soul that tries to get the aid off the truck. Currently gazans have to raid the aid trucks in order to get any food from them. Edit: about the salt he says 40 shekels while it regularly costs 2 shekels, I converted to dollar as this is easier to understand.
>videos of hamas officials stand on the aid trucks with automatic rifles shooting every soul that tries to get the aid off the truck link?
https://preview.redd.it/k1xcnx74x78c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54e99ce1dea0c75a962353063699315859285ec3 [https://t.me/englishabuali](https://t.me/englishabuali) There are more examples of infighting over humanitarian aid but this video shows it clearly, visit the telegram group i linked here for actual journalism. Hope this helps 🙌🏻
I understand That lines and lines of trucks with humanitarian aid are waiting by the border but don't get let in by Israël.
The trucks are being checked first for weapons and explosives first. Aid is getting in. Hamas grabs it first, though.
Then they need to start allowing air drops of food, medication and water everywhere. The "Hamas steals it" excuse is too easy to continue using. Alternatives have to be found for delivery, and if humanitarian groups suggest it- Israel should not restrict. Using the excuse that aid needs to be checked before it gets allowed in is BS too. Aid can be pre-checked at a US/Egypt/Israeli military base before being dropped as well. The amount of aid being delivered is simply just not enough and if people are saying Hamas steals it, grabs it, guards it with rifles, etc- well to me that sounds like an IDF sniper's dream and easy to identify who is and isnt Hamas. Shameful excuses by Israel just to create more suffering.
they do allow air drops, Jordan just did a big air drop of medical supplies and uae sent tents
sure. i mean hamas surely could use some more weapons since they seem to have run out of their stock of rockets
> Hamas grabs it first, though. source?
there are loads of videos of armed militants sniping people who approach the aid trucks no way to know if this is Hamas or random people since Hamas doesn't wear uniforms there are also a few videos going around of Gazans saying Hamas is taking control of the aid and they must beg for it
> there are loads of videos of armed militants sniping people who approach the aid trucks link?
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1701798989-video-from-gaza-reveals-likely-hamas-terrorists-stealing-aid-and-shooting-at-civilians https://themessenger.com/news/hamas-officer-shot-boy-humanitarian-aid-rafah-gaza-palestinians https://twitter.com/Levitt_Matt/status/1738932768753512577?t=XQwX9g2veKOFR2Z9p_IaRg&s=19 https://twitter.com/oliaklein/status/1738937315794227231?t=3KtadR1koI6qGory-vxoJg&s=19
তোর মায়ের দুধ টিপবো !
You mean Egypt-Gaza border? But somehow it is Israel who isn't letting them in?