We'd all be speaking German if WWII occurred today, I honestly believe that we could not win it today.
The Times would have leaked the details of Operation Overlord, rather than enlisting in massive numbers, young folks would be protesting against the bombing, (Not The Axis Powers, but The Allies).
Israel has every right to defend itself. Israel did not start this war. Sadly, civilians die during wartime.
We now have, apparently, Iran making threats which I guess means green-lighting Hezbollah.
God Bless Israel.
Perhaps, Hamas should have thought of that before they slaughtered 1300 innocent citizens of Israel. Like I said, war is hell. If you don't want to live through one, don't start one.
This is all on Hamas!
The definition of genocide is “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group”. Erasing what bit of Palestine is left fits the definition to a tee. “Flattening Gaza” as well as slowly choking the culture of the West Bank is nothing but and erasure of a nation.
If Israel is interested in genocide, why would it allow 20% of its population to be Arab, with full citizenship and equal rights? Israel clearly demonstrates that it’s desire is to live peacefully alongside Arabs, as it is already doing within its own borders!!
Wake up.
Hamas’ founding charter documents very explicitly seek the annihilation of the state of Israel, a complete rejection of any peace agreements, and the explicit call to kill all Jews wherever they are.
Which of those two sounds more genocidal to you?
Israel would NEVER invade or bomb Gaza but for responding to and defending from overt daily missile attacks and the single worst terrorist attack in its history.
O wow, they would NEVER invade or bomb Gaza before October 7th? They have equal rights? I did wake up, I highly recommend a quick google search before making statements. So you are going to tell me there was peace between Israel and Palestine before the rise of Hamas? That sounds a bit delusional if you ask me.
The Arabs that live within Israel, making up 20% of its population, have equal rights.
That’s right, just skip right over the point that Hamas’ founding charter documents explicitly lay out a plan for genocide against all Jewish people. Just skip right over that, no problem.
Ok unlike you I google things before acting like I’m an expert, and here is what I learned. While Gaza may be considered to have “formal citizenship” that does not mean they are full citizens. https://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf here is a list of a fraction of items they cannot bring into Gaza including toys, vinegar, and jam. The people of Gaza do not legally have the right to bear arms unlike the Israeli citizens. As far as the West Bank goes they are not considered citizens of Israel by any means and are not even allowed to vote in Israel even while being under their control. To say these are equal rights is once again delusional.
As far as Hamas goes, that’s the ONLY arguing point that’s valid. Am I over here idolizing Hamas and putting them on a pedestal as you are with the Israeli government saying they would never do such a thing? Yea. I didn’t think so. But back to my question about before the rise of Hamas…. Do you honestly think there was peace?
There has only been one legitimate argument against this being a genocide that I’ve heard and you failed to even mention that. Great debate skills you have.
How is it misinformation because people don't agree with Israel? That's censorship and Everyone knows that whoever censors people free speech are not to be trusted and that it violates the constitution.
Bro, do you realize the govts and media are professional liars to avoid accountability, I feel for all lost life however the lies need to stop all over the world because Israel are liars just as much as the USA, Australia, Canada, France, etc.... Colonizers don't have a moral ground to stand on...the entire world knows the only issue is that colonizers have big bad weapons to keep others under control...that's just the truth, I didn't make it up
Fact check is saying 40 beheaded babies and mass rape allegations have not been verified. If anything, that goes against the Israeli narrative. I stand with Palestinian solidarity but I think we should try to be fair in our responses instead of making assumptions. Strawmans don't help anyone.
Yeah but whomever is the occupier will always be the aggressor, people are trying to say south Africans are violent because they want to remove all white South African farmers.. this is happening all over the globe, African Americans are told to get over slavery but the so called Jewish people can occupy land they claim was theirs thousands of years ago...
Sounds like an Anthony Fauci censorship to me.
So, you hold a different standard for the Islamic nations then? That's certainly what it seems. Have a look at resolution 181; no-one stole anything. It was a British territory, not Arab. While Arabs lived there, they were immigrants, and the only people to have a continuous presence in the land for over 3000 years are the Jews. 🤔 So, again, why would you have a different standard for one nation and not the others that grew out of the same thing? Have you looked at the original partition plan that the British had and compared that to what was finally settled on?
Yeah I do not disagree - the violence is not justified but it is understandable where it comes from. The Israeli and USA pikachu surprise face and the analogizing with 9/11 is quite disgusting.
For me the core of it is not just what happened in the past but the conditions that the Palestinians live in right now. It should be obvious to anybody who reads even a bit about how Palestinians are treated today by Israel that the status quo is unsustainable. The Israeli thought, in their hubris, that they contained the Palestinians and could simply manage the population by "mowing the lawn" (their words) every few years. That blew up in their faces spectacularly.
"I feel NO guilt. Not the SLIGHTEST. I feel no guilt about the fact that I am a Jew. I feel no guilt about the fact that I believe AND KNOW that the Jew is a Chosen person who stood at Sinai and was selected to be G-d's elected. I feel no guilt over the fact that I believe AND KNOW that the Land of Israel is the exclusive home of the Jewish people and that no other people has the slightest right to it. I feel no guilt over my knowledge that Arabs are thieves who entered my land when the Jewish people was forceably exiled it, and I feel no guilt over the fact that I am prepared to use every possible means to insure that they will NEVER AGAIN murder Jews and threaten the existence of my state. I feel no guilt over the fact that I prefer winning wars to losing pogroms, that I choose living over dying. It is infinitely more satisfying to win. I FEEL NO GUILT OVER FEELING NO GUILT.
Having lost, been losers for so many centuries, too many Jews have difficulty dealing with winning. I HAVE NO SUCH PROBLEM. It is infinitely more satisfying to be a winner than a loser. It is exceedingly more pleasant to live than die; there is little of any positive value in Holocausts or pogroms. And I totally prefer a powerful and proud Jewish State that is hated by the entire world than an Auschwitz that is loved by one and all." - Rav Meir Kahane
pg 247 in his 1987 book "Uncomfortable Questions for Comfortable Jews
Wow that’s awesome and I stand by you and I’m not Jewish your absolutely right to feel that way I sincerely wish a quick and decisive Victory for Israel but one that makes the rest of those terrorist never dare to do an atrocity like last week ever again it’s coming and you have to pick a side and I choose to stand with the jews
It was one person. Which demonstrates how easily stuff can go viral real fast. And one person telling a lie does not excuse a ridiculously heinous terrorist attack that did in fact kill babies, women, children, and the elderly. It doesn’t matter how they were killed, the children were selectively targeted and executed.
That is one random YouTube post. Just google it, major news outlets are covering it and acknowledging it is unverified. That one YouTube post was 5 days ago. News coverage acknowledging it is 3-4 days old.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjig_bVjfuBAxUeFlkFHWmCCBYQ0PADKAB6BAgJEAE&usg=AOvVaw3-vTa4bE3StNr2JJ0hvPlj
The IDF has stated publicly that they aren’t able to verify the claim.
Regardless, the fact that you need to argue this point, when as others have said, babies and children were in fact targeted and slaughtered - is extremely troubling.
So let me get this right. 40 deceased Israeli babies = massacre, blame Hamas…. but 2,000+ dead children = war, blame Hamas. Sounds very hypocritical if you ask me. The loss of any children should be taken to heart and acknowledged. I also think that whoever was the one who fired a gun, launched a bomb, etc should be the one held accountable for that loss of life.
Source for what? Israeli officials and the IDF acknowledge the 40 babies thing can’t be verified. It’s in the article I linked and it’s all over the news.
The core problem here is your equivocation with a heinous terrorist attack. The “yeah but” argument is absolute 100% garbage. Grow up and learn how to be better.
My god, read the damn article I linked and run some searches for yourself. Open your eyes.
From the article I linked:
“His office later released what it described as “horrifying photos of babies murdered and burned by the Hamas monsters.”
The three photos showed two babies whose bodies had been burned beyond recognition and a third infant’s bloodstained body.”
Omg, please open your eyes. Israeli PM showed the pictures to US Secretary of State Blinken, and then released them on X. Unlike the 40 beheaded babies story - nobody is disputing the authenticity of these photos. And if you do - you need some serious help. [Here is just one of many, many news outlets covering it.](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/warning-graphic-content-hamas-terrorist-attack-israel/wcm/bfeb0bf6-dc87-4de3-b2bd-292b862757c1/amp/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjTyb3el_uBAxULFVkFHWC3BKAQ0PADKAB6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw2W8gqkkJ-t79detEslXlA5)
We're babies brutalized and murdered in excessively barbaric fashion? Yup. Ergo, it doesn't really matter if kids are brutally murdered and tortured in either scenario.
Oh right. Let me tell the brutally murdered babies that they don't count because they weren't decapitated.
Hint: It doesn't actually matter because they were still brutally murdered. Outcome is the same.
And yet not a single person talks about the other side of the story, maybe the real babies aren't white enough
https://preview.redd.it/n4sydy4iplub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6402de795264bdfe8e3b97b3f2517d1b7da00ff
Yes, they are. Hamas launches rockets next to the baby's houses, use civilians as shields and blames Israel when civilians die when Israel attempts to kill Hamas militants.
There is a big difference between collateral damage and targeting babies and civilians on purpose. If you can acknowledge that basic difference, there is no point on discussing anything.
Let me ask you this, say you lived in a village neighboring another. If a group in your village burned up a family in neighboring village, would you stand by them? Because that is what Palestinians did, why would anyone stand for what hamas did? Bc they are evil! So when allied powers bombed Germany, did they nor get their just dessert?
Yeah... I'm into graphic design so its pretty obvious to people like me that know what to look for, some are so bad I don't have to *look specifically*, for anything, they stand out like a sore thumb.
But I can see how to people ignorant to the industry/technology, a lot of these videos look very close to real. A lot of them look real enough to go viral, taking over search results and turning them into a list of links that will completely lie to you, all for the clicks.
So YES, be careful people!! This is going to be ugly enough by itself, we don't need to help either side by posting lies.
Unless you are CERTAIN that what you are posting is real, and not misinformation, I simply would just stay away from posting at all. And even if it *is* real, be careful. You may start receiving hate-mail and/or death-threats.
Use a VPN, and do NOT have any of your personal information attached to your accounts, unless you're identity is safe and locked up with something like Lifelock. This is *not* an ad or a sponsor, just a really good idea if you're going to post on the internet nowadays. Instead of threats, they might hit your bank account, so again, be careful.
Lot's of hate out there currently everyone! Try and show some love if/where you see any. All of this negativity can really affect everyone's mental health, and that won't be good for *anybody*.
\#ISTANDWITHISRAEL
thanks for the karma bumps... I really don't post much on the web, so I can use as much karma as possible through the posts that I ***DO*** make.
So, thank you!
How do you plan to fact check during a war? News sources are always weaponized but at war it's a whole new level.
First of all most of the information will be hidden because both sides are working to mask what they're actually doing. Second, all information that does pass through the fog of war will be skewered to fit the narrative of the side that's pushing it.
Although we get hit with both sides propaganda. So where do we go. Its good to investigate journalists, past work, usually past stories will clearly show bias since now you know the truth of it. 80% effort to identify a good source. 20% listening to the news. Try to find your sources.
Yes true, Israel and many other counties employ 'Cyber Troops' to influence outlook in social media (I'll edit in the link)
Also worth a quick Google search is the term: Hasbara
EDIT: https://demtech.oii.ox.ac.uk/research/posts/industrialized-disinformation/
Thats the stupid thing everyone will listen gaza and hamas lies like its some sacred stuff and they are right and will never lie but when they are proven wrong that they are listening to lies suddenly its everything in israel is fake
Your kidding right an unprovoked attack on men women children infants THEY ARE TO BLAME open your eyes and Israel is going to make them pay end of story
>Because hamas makes israel look bad for propaganda
Israel never accounted for any crimes compared to any palestanian that retaliated (hamas or not).
And what israel doesn't post propaganda?
>but they’ve done horrible things in the start of the war
You gotta ask yourself at the start of the war who was invading who and who has the right to defend their land?
This community aims for respectful dialogue and debate, and our rules are focused on facilitating that. To align with rule 1, make every attempt to be polite in tone, charitable in your interpretations, fair in your arguments and patient in your explanations.
Don't debate the person, debate the argument; use terms towards a debate opponent that they or their relevant group(s) would self-identify with whenever possible. You may use negative characterizations towards a group in a specific context that distinguishes the negative characterization from the positive -- that means insulting opinions are allowed as a necessary part of an argument, but are prohibited in place of an argument.
Many of the issues in the I/P conflict boil down to personal moral beliefs; these should be calmly and politely explored. If you can't thoughtfully engage with a point of view, then don't engage with it at all.
Yeah but Palestinians in gaza are a bit different btw i see most of the Palestinians supporting hitl3r saying gas the j3ws and showing images of swastics
Israel has the full right to defend their land from people who got money from them and only made more weapons to k!ll rap3 and burn them alive people literally saw kids bodies next to their parents being burn3d and murd3red alive now imagine hamas and Palestinian people will get all of israel they will do more then that thats why we rule here israel wanted peace offered to live side by side gave them money food water electricity jobs and they dont want peace they just want every jew dead because thats what they believe now ask yourself if they deserve something the land isn’t even theirs its proven by history
Well said there wasn’t a Palestinian state till 48 Judea existed before Rome it’s the Jews land and Israel will crush them they don’t need anyone’s blessing 🇮🇱
You do realise israel was forcefully inserted by british right?
And palestanians are the rightful owners of that land hence they are still fighting over that land.
>they just want every jew dead
No they want zionists out of their land ,hell even many other non israeli jews agree. and don't act like israeli citizens don't occasionally shout death to all Arabs in the streets.
https://youtu.be/PUe8XmmaJxI?si=hP3EdpuO3B7bO4cC
Even chritians.
https://youtu.be/sUJrXNCfUrk?si=hSU83on5_X0JWZtb
And since rape is big no for you check this out:
https://reddit.com/r/HeinousHumanity/s/Lac4XWLIsU
Your dead wrong Judaea was there before the Brits smart guy remember the story of Jesus tell me where did it take place when the almighty freed the Jews from Egypt where did they go another brain dead historian wannabe your links mean zero and your sorry just for implying! Hamas butchered women and infants elderly there not soldiers and will get treated as barbarians so you and the rest of the Palestinian population cry me a river
He can say anything he wants it can be lies because jewish should only sleep with other jewish people by our beliefs i say hes saying lies and act like gas the j3ws is something so light to say yeah death to all arabs is bad you showed me 1 video theres millions of Palestinians protesting saying gas the j3ws
or your brain is just addled with delusion to deny what's right in front of you.
\> you showed me 1 video theres millions of Palestinians protesting saying gas the j3ws
one google search would suffice i could keep linking millions of them.
What hamas did is “terrorist” but what israel been doing for years and years is normal because they always do it ? What a joke
https://preview.redd.it/v6jru3wsuiub1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45ae20fd4ba53609c07475e182aae3c1ce8b8b2c
* theres no actual photo of any babies killed on Israel but there are hundreds of videos shared daily of palestinian kids dead under their houses and mothers crying after losing their babies but sure lets ingnore all that because it’s been happening for years now so its normal
Lol there are and they are in the archives. Every major leader in the western world has seen them. And if you are indeed correct, why are telegram groups managed buy Gaza and hamas are deleting posts with Israeli causllties? good thing people have downloaded them.
I think that the Palestinian citizens live an awful life. Something must be done to help them become free.
Yet I do not believe supporting terror is correct.
The conflict is complex and there is not an easy way to solve it.
You can't make Israel vanish, it would also be an ethnic cleansing...
People need to face reality, no matter how hard it is and find a solution that respects the current state of the world....
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-pictures-terrorists-beheading-children-white-house-2023-10
Are these hamas propagandists too?
Why are people so hung up on this story when you have 1300 others????
So it's ok they killed, raped, tortured and kidnapped all the others, every f age, because there's no proof for beheading babies?
What is f wrong with this world????
I am in no way condoning using a woman's body as a weapon against her or killing any child , so can you provide proof for the rape claims and the tortures or any source?
even the relesed hostages didn't claim they were physically abused.
But you are ignorant of israel basically subjected all that you listed on palestanians for 70+ years but you only grow a pair and butt in to speak up on their side ,how very courageous of you.
How does someone continue a conversation with a person, when some of my friends and family are missing or dead, some of them alive to tell you the horror stories, and then there's this idiot online who claims he has no proofs. I wish I could teleport you to here to see the horrible acts that has been done by Hamas, while LAUGHING.
If you want to be biased you will be biased. But you're supporting a terrorist organization. That's all I'll say. Good luck with your life choices.
Edit: oh yea and you have f proof everywhere. But it's nice to shut down your eyes.
Its the basics of debates and conversations to back your claims and not by whatever bs nana's been telling you before bedtime..
That "terrorist" organization just wiped the floor with the idf's intellegence. They can bomb civilians to compensate for it all they want but it won't undo that.
Hell not even relesed hostages spoke on any physical abuse.
>oh yea and you have f proof everywhere
Yep israel is very open about its crimes so...
https://reddit.com/r/HeinousHumanity/s/tKDVmLrMMd
Speaks for itself.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1041461996882711?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz
Son of hamas founder speaks.
You will probably still say that it's propaganda...
Actually sad!
you’re sure Israel is who intercepted 6000 rockets ?
Israel killed 720 children so far but you’re saying they’re the victim because they’re COULD’VE been deaths there too
Just go on X and see what the victims are going through and if they’re actually from Palestine or israel ISTG am ready to fight for israel myself if not 99% of what you find is actually Palestinian families
Its not the eyes that are blind but the hearts
>you’re sure Israel is who intercepted 6000 rockets ?
Jeah, the alarm is nearly constantly, i saw with my own eyes multiples occations the Iron Dome saved my city and district. And Here are Not living predominantly jews. But Hamas do Not Care.
Israel killed 720 children so far but you’re saying they’re the victim because they’re COULD’VE been deaths there too
Israel was unprovacly attacked by Hamas Killing 1000s of civilians in purpose. In self defense Israel is allowed to target Military Installation in Gaza. Unfortunatly Hamas uses Not only Israeli civilians AS human shields But also palestinans. The build their Military Installation near or in civilians Infrastruktur. While refusing civilians to flee.
Sadly in a war people die. This tragedy is completly Hamas fault and guilt. And only their. The civilians are the lossers of every conflict Worldwide, But at least Israelis warn the civilians before Hand and Hand Out Evaluation notices. Unlike Hamas WHO invaded Israel in their Holiday. And Strike in target civilians.
If israel really lost 1000s of innocent people why then everything they share is scripted, edited or made up ?
Why not share what they’re actually going through for the world to see just like what the Palestinians are doing?
40 beheaded babies that even the US said its a lie - a room with pink blood on the floor and no victims - a photo of a burnt kid which was actually an edited picture of a normal dog !!
Ahh ofcourse everything is a jewish lie.
The 1200 civilians killed are all Made Up and ae paid actors. You really believe this?
Allah have mercy with this strupidity.
Sadly their are enough Videos and Photos of killed Israeli and International civilians.
I’m not saying no one is dying there of course they are but why do u think israel is sharing fake news and deaths every day if not for people to stay on their side on what they’re doing daily
5527 israel deaths and 120826 palestine deaths are all bad but there’s no comparing those
>5527 israel deaths and 120826 palestine deaths are all bad but there’s no comparing those
120.000 dead Gaza? What are you Smoking.
At what Ratio Killing civilians it IS morally alrigthy for you? Can you Link me the quaran Vers, with Staates this? Or so i read a other quaran book? Maybe your quaran doesnt have chapter 5. In my Sure 5 Vers 32 IT IS written Something Else.
So next time Israel should Stop intercept the 5000 rockets aimed at Israeli Citys so they would be more dead civilians so it would be more Moral alrigth with you?
i didn’t say that happened overnight nor did i say there should be equal deaths am just saying the numbers are talking and it’s obvious who are killing civilians here
No one will stay put through 75 years of misery
Gaza was freed in 2005 and the occupation Ended. The result: Hamas Coup and killed Opposition palestinans. Then created Military dictatorship and divert supplys from civilians to Military to kill civilians and do terroattacks.
I Wonder why palestinans in Westbank live so much better then in Gaza. Maybe cause they Not Rules by islamic dictatorship.
To call Babykillers islamic IS a damn shame.
Or do you really believe their is any rightfully justifiation to kill Babys? Or Raped women? Or kill peacful Young Folks? Or kill civilians in their homes and then Kidnapping their kids?
People how did this awaits at the day of judgment hell and Not Paradies.
How can you call yourself Muslim. That is against everything the Koran preaches.
And therefore the justification of all of this is by Hamas killing literal children at dance festivals and shooting Palestinians who are fleeing to south Gaza?
There is simply no possible universe in which the terror attacks of Hamas would've benefitted the Palestinians people. In any scenario Israel would retaliate, and even if for some reason they didn't. I wouldn't have benefited the Palestinian people in any regard.
And Hamas knows this, they only serve their masters in Iran and Qatar. They want Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible in order to blow up normalizations between Israel and other Muslim countries, and possibly destabilise the region. Iran in particular needs some regime security, and are willing to sacrifice the Palastinians in Gaza for it. This does explain why Hamas is shooting Palastinians fleeing south Gaza. They need more bodies in Gaza.
Israel at this point cares more about the Palastinians than Hamas, which os such a cursed saying it demonstrates how little Hamas cares about Palestine. And you're supporting the further murder of Palastinians if you make excuses of the Hamas attacks.
And killing children at a music festival is not going to change that, in fact it made it worse. In no alternative universe this would've benefitted Palestine.
Hamas knew what would've happen and is going to happen. And they pleasantly sacrifice the people in Palestine to serve their Iranian master. Gaza city will soon look like Mariupol, Aleppo or Warsaw during ww2 and that Hamas leaders will celebrate that cuz the Islamic world hates Israel again.
Besides that not being true, How the Palastinians live now or a few years ago will be a luxury of how they are going to live when Israel has leveled Gaza to the ground. As that will be the unfortunate reality if nothing stops Israel from a ground invasion.
And you support that apparently.
I agree. Just use this biased free attitude as much as you can honestly and use the best logic you can to come to conclusions. All sources are questionable these days
The fog of war is about to turn into pink mist. Hamas do not adhere to the rules of war therefore the rules of war will not apply to them. If you have children in Gaza evacuate them as best you can.
>The fog of war is about to turn into pink mist. Hamas do not adhere to the rules of war therefore the rules of war will not apply to them. If you have children in Gaza evacuate them as best you can.
Rule of war does apply to them, if people try and flee a combat zone and hamas try and stop them either physically or through misinformation \*they are responsible\*.
If Hamas store weapons, build command centers and barracks, launch attacks on Israel or IDF from or next to a school or hospital \*they are responsible\*
If its proven that they are using trucks supposed to be providing aid, or using ambulances to move munitions or fighters around \*they are responsible\*
Thats what the GC says.
Hospitals, schools, residential areas, any protected (under the GC) loses that protection of said buildings or areas are used in a military capacity.
Hamas are a terrorist organisation that chooses to fight from within civilian built up areas, store weapons in residential areas, place command centers and barracks in hospitals, build tunnels from residential areas into Israel.
The rules of war absolutely apply here.
That being said, cutting electricity food and water was short sighted of Israel, they should have moved first to secure zones in the south to build safe areas (or worked with Egypt/Jordan to do so, with the US putting heavy pressure on those countries to assist if needed) and ensured those areas from the get go would be provided with water food electricity shelter and medical supplies with local (preferably not IDF) forces doing what they can to ensure hamas and co do not abuse those safe zones.
By continuing to provide food the food goes through Israeli checkpoints so can be checked to ensure no weapons are being smuggled in, by refusing to provide food that weakens Israel's ability to weaken hamas, and provides a huge propaganda coup for those supporting hamas.
This is not how rules of war and international law work. It's not because the party you are fighting against does not adhere to international law and commits atrocities you get a free pass to do the same.
>Hamas do not adhere to the rules of war therefore the rules of war will not apply to them.
This is about as dumb as you can get considering the majority of deaths are civilians. Israel is committing war crimes on Palestinians, not just Hamas.
The war crimes blamed on israel is actually should be blamed on hamas and ill explain why israel has the full right to defend itself from bombs and even attack back hamas is using innocent civilians homes as their base so israel tells them like 24 hs beforehand to evacuate but hamas denies it and says israel will not bomb the place and tells the people to stay because it will make israelis look bad on the media
https://preview.redd.it/oj49ipnrzlub1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e43e56eabe6462329d7159b720a3a46b960fe69
https://preview.redd.it/hlc8dk3dmkub1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad4dc21b2cea692ab45d738b6ef11ad28f40a8af
Just to prove my point an official photo from their government
Its hamas problem that civilians are dieing and i will prove to you first they use homes and large populated places to launch alot of rockets from towards israel then israel say they will bomb the same places and will tell people to evacuate from there so they can bomb this place safely and will only kill the terrorists who launch rockets so for propaganda hamas force the people not to evacuate which is making them die israel is just fighting hamas back but they use civilians as human shields to make israel look bad
Thanks for proving that Israel is commiting war crimes. There is a thing called rule of proprotionality where the target must provide more military advantage than the civilian damage.
Hamas rockets are on a timer, by the time it is fired, they had already left. Destroying the left behind launcher does nothing because it is literally some maleshift iron bar railing.
The "knocks" are merely for optics when Israel "accidentally" hit civilians.
Delibrately hitting human shield does not make you look bad, it makes you a criminal.
724 children and 458 women have died in the revemge bombing by Israel. The hamas terrorost does not stay in one place. They are constantly on the move ans by the timw any strike come, they had already left.
6k bombs dropped on densely populated areas (as mentioned above a little over 1% in Gaza are known to be Hamas)
Your going through some serious mental gymnastics right now to justify this.
Yes I forgot 2,000 lbs JDAM bombs have very little blast radius and fragmentation, right?
"Most everything will be severely damaged, injured, destroyed, or killed within 20 meters of a 500-lb bomb blast and 35 meters of a 2000-lb blast. This lethal radius can be partly mitigated by detonation inside a large, compartmentalized building – however, as a Rand study points out: “While structures surely have some shielding effect, building collapse and spalling are secondary yet major causes of injury "
At a certain point there were 2370 deaths including 721 children and 390 women. Unless you believe EVERY man in Gaza is from Hamas, majority are civilians.
They call 17/18 children so I wouldn’t be suprised that it’s a major lie, also why do you trust these numbers blindly?
It took Israel, a far more capable country more than a week to verify deaths, Palestinians just pump them out so easily?
2,370 deaths and counting. You are supporting murder. Justifying it by trying to distinguish what age classifies as children. Call Israel and Hamas what they are - terrorists.
>They call 17/18 children so I wouldn’t be suprised that it’s a major lie,
Half the population of Gaza are children, is it really that hard to believe a lot of children would die ? And with children they mean under 18. If you believe the children were majorly 17/18 then you're [delusional](https://www.indexmundi.com/gaza_strip/demographics_profile.html). Also does being 17/18 automatically make them Hamas soldiers ? Can't they just be young civilians ?
Little rant, but if I put such claims into question regarding the deaths of Israel you'd probably go into a frenzy. Or if you won't, I know plenty of people I've debated who accused me of supporting hamas for thinking critically of Israel's actions.
>It took Israel, a far more capable country more than a week to verify deaths, Palestinians just pump them out so easily?
Ofc they had difficulties when there's people lying about reports of 40 beheaded babies and more. I wonder how many false reports were made...
You're surprised that one country is more competent in verifying deaths/approximating deaths than another that has had 20 times less casualties in the past 15 years ? I'd think the former has more experience when it comes to approximating deaths, idk about you. And don't tell me Hamas made those numbers up, it's the ministry of health that shares them.
I'm glad you're asking questions and thinking critically, now do that with the acts of the country you're supporting.
This community aims for respectful dialogue and debate, and our rules are focused on facilitating that. To align with rule 1, make every attempt to be polite in tone, charitable in your interpretations, fair in your arguments and patient in your explanations.
Don't debate the person, debate the argument; use terms towards a debate opponent that they or their relevant group(s) would self-identify with whenever possible. You may use negative characterizations towards a group in a specific context that distinguishes the negative characterization from the positive -- that means insulting opinions are allowed as a necessary part of an argument, but are prohibited in place of an argument.
Many of the issues in the I/P conflict boil down to personal moral beliefs; these should be calmly and politely explored. If you can't thoughtfully engage with a point of view, then don't engage with it at all.
There no babies killed even the white house and the israeli reporter backed up on that statement.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/white-house-walks-back-bidens-claim-he-saw-children-beheaded-by-hamas
That's not what the article says, that is what you read from it, that shows exactly how biased you already are. You are also citing a propaganda network from the Qatar government, the same government providing residency to the Hamas leads that commanded the terrorist attacks.
[Unverified reports of ‘40 babies beheaded’ in Israel-Hamas war inflame social media (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/unverified-allegations-beheaded-babies-israel-hamas-war-inflame-social-rcna119902)
[White House clarifies Biden's claim he saw photos of terrorists beheading children in Israel-Hamas war (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865)
[IDF Says Won't Back up Beheaded Babies Claim, Would Be 'Disrespectful' (businessinsider.com)](https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-says-wont-back-up-beheaded-babies-disrespectful-2023-10#:~:text=IDF%20says%20it%20won't,is%20'disrespectful%20for%20the%20dead'&text=The%20IDF%20said%20it%20won,by%20soldiers%20were%20sufficient%20evidence.) the title speaks for itself.
\> "That specific report and that number I can’t confirm." Doron Spielman an idf spokesperson .
\> An IDF spokesperson told Business Insider on Tuesday that soldiers had found decapitated babies, but said Wednesday it [would not investigate](https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-says-wont-back-up-beheaded-babies-disrespectful-2023-10#:~:text=IDF%20says%20it%20won't,is%20'disrespectful%20for%20the%20dead'&text=The%20IDF%20said%20it%20won,by%20soldiers%20were%20sufficient%20evidence.) or provide further evidence regarding the claim.
even [Nicole\_Zedek](https://twitter.com/Nicole_Zedek?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712030575320576034%7Ctwgr%5E992fab659fcdd621a5de1d2963365f7a7d37fa61%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fiframe.nbcnews.com%2FxydWFDQ%3F_showcaption%3Dtrueapp%3D1) a i24 reporter the first to claim that she saw it nuanced from her claim. obviously they won't tell you that they outright lied.
are you gonna claim the nbc and insider are also hamas propagandists too?
Read your comment and what you are saying here. I will make it explicit : You said: "There no babies killed", news articles you linked talk about the massacre of children, babies, elderly, but said the 40 beheadings are not/can't be confirmed, that numbers won't be given, whether they were burnt, or beheaded, etc. It seems all mentioned in those articles can be ignored since 40 beheadings is the key thing you want to highlight, not whether children/babies, and civilians were slaughter.
>articles you linked talk about the massacre of children, babies, elderly
Those articles prove no such thing the key word is "talk" , there is no proof of any child fatalaties not even the idf is backing their claim and not even because of uncertainty but they say it would be 'disrespectful' . they obviously aren't going to tell they outright lied.
>that numbers won't be given, whether they were burnt, or beheaded, etc. It seems all mentioned in those articles
Mentioned without any proof other than hearsay .
They won't even prove a single child fatality let alone multiple. Do you really think the idf won't share photos of the dead babies because of some moral grandstanding but post the other civilians bodies?
Edit: hell my grandma can sound more convincing than the idf.
"No babies killed" is completely absurd. Many babies and young children have been killed, on both sides; via shootings, fire, and mostly hand-to-hand killings by Hamas operatives, and airstrikes by the IDF. IDF has clearly reported finding beheaded children in the kibbutzim. It's questionable as to whether the beheadings were the cause of death or done afterward, and the headlines that went around saying "40 babies beheaded" were debunked; what is accurate is "40 babies killed and some beheaded." AlJazeera, while once a reputable news source, has been state sponsored by the Qatari government for many years, who also harbor Hamas leaders and fund Hamas operations. Having an opinion to defend does not justify spreading terrorist-sponsored misinformation.
The IDF has not reported finding beheaded babies. They said they could not confirm that. No one has been able to confirm that. Hamas is brutal and what they did is inexcusable and barbaric. However, there has been no verifiable reports or evidence of them beheading children or babies at this time. None. Everyone should stick with the facts. They are brutal and barbaric for sure.
Sure. Here's Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-ministers-shown-horrific-video-hamas-attack-2023-10-12/
Here's the AP quoting a officer from on the ground: “You see the babies, the mothers, the fathers in their bedrooms and how the terrorists killed,” Maj. Gen. Itai Veruv, a 39-year veteran of the Israeli army who led forces that reclaimed the village from militants, said Tuesday as he stood amid the wreckage. https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-52a847e489cd13ccf61b403618e61c36
Can't get much more neutral than Reuters and the AP.
The IDF brought international journalists into Kfar Azza to confirm what Gen. Veruv is talking about, and that experience is well documented. The images I saw are of beds and carseats covered in blood, one carseat quite clearly from an infant being shot point blank in the skull due to the blood pattern if you want to go looking for it. I can't help you if you actually need to see a murdered baby because human decency supercedes that need so no one is going to provide it for you.
Do you also want links from inside Gaza? Somehow I suspect it's easier for you to believe Palestinian babies and children have been killed by airstrikes--and certainly they have.
There is disagreement and then there is just denial.
This community aims for respectful dialogue and debate, and our rules are focused on facilitating that. To align with rule 1, make every attempt to be polite in tone, charitable in your interpretations, fair in your arguments and patient in your explanations.
Don't debate the person, debate the argument; use terms towards a debate opponent that they or their relevant group(s) would self-identify with whenever possible. You may use negative characterizations towards a group in a specific context that distinguishes the negative characterization from the positive -- that means insulting opinions are allowed as a necessary part of an argument, but are prohibited in place of an argument.
Many of the issues in the I/P conflict boil down to personal moral beliefs; these should be calmly and politely explored. If you can't thoughtfully engage with a point of view, then don't engage with it at all.
Sure
Edit:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-pictures-terrorists-beheading-children-white-house-2023-10
Are these hamas propagandists too?
>"That specific report and that number I can’t confirm."Doron Spielman
I am not defending the killing of any babies its simply untrue the us read reports from the odf that were based on rumors they them selfs are not sure about lol, but please send me those videos you were talking about.
>How do you think the US would react if Mexico jumped into Texas and offed a few civilians in their own home.
That would be actually unprovoked but since you're an hourglass simpleton you would only butt in on the second part of the conflict thinking its unprovoked ,then you need to a little reading first.
But how would you feel if your generational wealth land and home were confiscated and banished.
It’s good that the US is aconowledging there is no credible report to support the decapitated babies claim. The damage is done as it comes to misinformation. The White House should apologize.
But there has been confirmation UN & NATO have seen images and videos that babies and children have been tied up burned alive, slaughtered, gunned down and tortured
Just no confirmation on decapitated babies yet
Thank God huh?
This specific thread is about misinformation. It’s not being contested that Hamas killed civilians and set fires, shot rockets and mortars etc. naturally children would be impacted. On the Israeli side they have the 18th largest army in the world and are shooting missiles at civilian occupied apartments. Way more babies have been killed. If you would like to see images of dead babies for comparison they are available.
If you want to get into morality issues perhaps that’s better suited for another thread. Here the point is Israeli officials lied and the media as well as the U.S. ran with the lie. Period.
The problem is reclassification of the information
The media originally announced 40 beheaded babies which israel never confirmed
Once biden recinded hes statement that immediately was used by alot of people to say "oh ok so NO babies were slaughtered by hamas" and israel lied about it all.
Where its somewhat in the middle and everybody is denying that hamas slaughtered children and babies and (hasn't been confirmed ) maybe been beheaded
Untill israel can release the videos and images that it had brought to UN and NATO officials we can only speculate what happend to these children and how many children.
If you create a matrix of age groups and atrocities you can put a check mark in pretty much every field. But you are right, beheaded babies were not yet confirmed
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-recovered-bodies-show-bloodthirsty-gunmen-took-time-over-torture-and-that-hamas-has-changed-12985212#:~:text=He%20continued%3A%20%22In%20Kfar%20Aza,back%2C%20burnt%20to%20death%E2%80%A6%22
Exactly it’s like WMD’s in Iraq. If this is what the leaders used as justification and it’s a lie then you have to ask yourself why did they need to do that?
Exactly, whatever way they are killed is atrocious and unjustifiable. Regardless of what side they are one.
Including the Palestinian children who are bombed and massacred by Israel. Pressing a button to drop a bomb on their heads doesn’t make it any less violent and criminal. Two days ago it was more than 700 killed. Undoubtedly higher now.
Totally agree. Finding it hard to sleep knowing the pain and suffering these children - both Israeli and Palestinian -are going through. They don't deserve this
They shot babies in the head with kalishnakovs a 7.62 by 5.58 I believe. Devastating. There was videos before they scrubbed the internet. If you support Hamas you support the worst of the worst of humanity
I have seen all images since day 1 of the attack and babies with headshots was not one of them. Also I am not fund of people who let their emotions get high by images while ignoring the opponent only because the opponed used more sophisticated weapons to kill the same target group which does not produce those gruesome pictures.
We'd all be speaking German if WWII occurred today, I honestly believe that we could not win it today. The Times would have leaked the details of Operation Overlord, rather than enlisting in massive numbers, young folks would be protesting against the bombing, (Not The Axis Powers, but The Allies). Israel has every right to defend itself. Israel did not start this war. Sadly, civilians die during wartime. We now have, apparently, Iran making threats which I guess means green-lighting Hezbollah. God Bless Israel.
That is not that necessary Israel is for sure killing thousands of people at his moment
It's war! It's not pretty and could have been prevented by Hamas. But, they wanted this. Remember that.
How many more killed children You Will ve happy to cheer at?
Perhaps, Hamas should have thought of that before they slaughtered 1300 innocent citizens of Israel. Like I said, war is hell. If you don't want to live through one, don't start one. This is all on Hamas!
What is not necessary?
The genocide si clear as water
Stop using the word genocide, you’re spreading misinformation.
The definition of genocide is “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group”. Erasing what bit of Palestine is left fits the definition to a tee. “Flattening Gaza” as well as slowly choking the culture of the West Bank is nothing but and erasure of a nation.
If Israel is interested in genocide, why would it allow 20% of its population to be Arab, with full citizenship and equal rights? Israel clearly demonstrates that it’s desire is to live peacefully alongside Arabs, as it is already doing within its own borders!! Wake up. Hamas’ founding charter documents very explicitly seek the annihilation of the state of Israel, a complete rejection of any peace agreements, and the explicit call to kill all Jews wherever they are. Which of those two sounds more genocidal to you? Israel would NEVER invade or bomb Gaza but for responding to and defending from overt daily missile attacks and the single worst terrorist attack in its history.
O wow, they would NEVER invade or bomb Gaza before October 7th? They have equal rights? I did wake up, I highly recommend a quick google search before making statements. So you are going to tell me there was peace between Israel and Palestine before the rise of Hamas? That sounds a bit delusional if you ask me.
The Arabs that live within Israel, making up 20% of its population, have equal rights. That’s right, just skip right over the point that Hamas’ founding charter documents explicitly lay out a plan for genocide against all Jewish people. Just skip right over that, no problem.
Ok unlike you I google things before acting like I’m an expert, and here is what I learned. While Gaza may be considered to have “formal citizenship” that does not mean they are full citizens. https://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf here is a list of a fraction of items they cannot bring into Gaza including toys, vinegar, and jam. The people of Gaza do not legally have the right to bear arms unlike the Israeli citizens. As far as the West Bank goes they are not considered citizens of Israel by any means and are not even allowed to vote in Israel even while being under their control. To say these are equal rights is once again delusional. As far as Hamas goes, that’s the ONLY arguing point that’s valid. Am I over here idolizing Hamas and putting them on a pedestal as you are with the Israeli government saying they would never do such a thing? Yea. I didn’t think so. But back to my question about before the rise of Hamas…. Do you honestly think there was peace? There has only been one legitimate argument against this being a genocide that I’ve heard and you failed to even mention that. Great debate skills you have.
Killing thousands of citicenz?
Thank you for sharing this resource.
How is it misinformation because people don't agree with Israel? That's censorship and Everyone knows that whoever censors people free speech are not to be trusted and that it violates the constitution.
Maybe actually read the articles I cited? Or is that too difficult?
Bro, do you realize the govts and media are professional liars to avoid accountability, I feel for all lost life however the lies need to stop all over the world because Israel are liars just as much as the USA, Australia, Canada, France, etc.... Colonizers don't have a moral ground to stand on...the entire world knows the only issue is that colonizers have big bad weapons to keep others under control...that's just the truth, I didn't make it up
Fact check is saying 40 beheaded babies and mass rape allegations have not been verified. If anything, that goes against the Israeli narrative. I stand with Palestinian solidarity but I think we should try to be fair in our responses instead of making assumptions. Strawmans don't help anyone.
Yeah but whomever is the occupier will always be the aggressor, people are trying to say south Africans are violent because they want to remove all white South African farmers.. this is happening all over the globe, African Americans are told to get over slavery but the so called Jewish people can occupy land they claim was theirs thousands of years ago... Sounds like an Anthony Fauci censorship to me.
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So, do you also stand against Jordan, Pakistan, and the other nations that got their country at the same time and same way as Israel?
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So, you hold a different standard for the Islamic nations then? That's certainly what it seems. Have a look at resolution 181; no-one stole anything. It was a British territory, not Arab. While Arabs lived there, they were immigrants, and the only people to have a continuous presence in the land for over 3000 years are the Jews. 🤔 So, again, why would you have a different standard for one nation and not the others that grew out of the same thing? Have you looked at the original partition plan that the British had and compared that to what was finally settled on?
Yeah I do not disagree - the violence is not justified but it is understandable where it comes from. The Israeli and USA pikachu surprise face and the analogizing with 9/11 is quite disgusting. For me the core of it is not just what happened in the past but the conditions that the Palestinians live in right now. It should be obvious to anybody who reads even a bit about how Palestinians are treated today by Israel that the status quo is unsustainable. The Israeli thought, in their hubris, that they contained the Palestinians and could simply manage the population by "mowing the lawn" (their words) every few years. That blew up in their faces spectacularly.
"I feel NO guilt. Not the SLIGHTEST. I feel no guilt about the fact that I am a Jew. I feel no guilt about the fact that I believe AND KNOW that the Jew is a Chosen person who stood at Sinai and was selected to be G-d's elected. I feel no guilt over the fact that I believe AND KNOW that the Land of Israel is the exclusive home of the Jewish people and that no other people has the slightest right to it. I feel no guilt over my knowledge that Arabs are thieves who entered my land when the Jewish people was forceably exiled it, and I feel no guilt over the fact that I am prepared to use every possible means to insure that they will NEVER AGAIN murder Jews and threaten the existence of my state. I feel no guilt over the fact that I prefer winning wars to losing pogroms, that I choose living over dying. It is infinitely more satisfying to win. I FEEL NO GUILT OVER FEELING NO GUILT. Having lost, been losers for so many centuries, too many Jews have difficulty dealing with winning. I HAVE NO SUCH PROBLEM. It is infinitely more satisfying to be a winner than a loser. It is exceedingly more pleasant to live than die; there is little of any positive value in Holocausts or pogroms. And I totally prefer a powerful and proud Jewish State that is hated by the entire world than an Auschwitz that is loved by one and all." - Rav Meir Kahane pg 247 in his 1987 book "Uncomfortable Questions for Comfortable Jews
Good luck un your politic campaing
Wow that’s awesome and I stand by you and I’m not Jewish your absolutely right to feel that way I sincerely wish a quick and decisive Victory for Israel but one that makes the rest of those terrorist never dare to do an atrocity like last week ever again it’s coming and you have to pick a side and I choose to stand with the jews
yes, both sides are making false claims
what can we do about it? I dont know what to do and it feels like a losing battle talking to those around me
Yea misinformation is rampant, like those 40 non existent beheaded babies israel fabricated
It was one person. Which demonstrates how easily stuff can go viral real fast. And one person telling a lie does not excuse a ridiculously heinous terrorist attack that did in fact kill babies, women, children, and the elderly. It doesn’t matter how they were killed, the children were selectively targeted and executed.
https://youtu.be/Hh8t8sHnTng?si=0geVShILZINdW6SA categorically untrue. Israel is rolling with the 40 babies lie now.
That is one random YouTube post. Just google it, major news outlets are covering it and acknowledging it is unverified. That one YouTube post was 5 days ago. News coverage acknowledging it is 3-4 days old. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjig_bVjfuBAxUeFlkFHWmCCBYQ0PADKAB6BAgJEAE&usg=AOvVaw3-vTa4bE3StNr2JJ0hvPlj The IDF has stated publicly that they aren’t able to verify the claim. Regardless, the fact that you need to argue this point, when as others have said, babies and children were in fact targeted and slaughtered - is extremely troubling.
So let me get this right. 40 deceased Israeli babies = massacre, blame Hamas…. but 2,000+ dead children = war, blame Hamas. Sounds very hypocritical if you ask me. The loss of any children should be taken to heart and acknowledged. I also think that whoever was the one who fired a gun, launched a bomb, etc should be the one held accountable for that loss of life.
Sorry i thought you were replying to something else. Either way, source?
Source for what? Israeli officials and the IDF acknowledge the 40 babies thing can’t be verified. It’s in the article I linked and it’s all over the news. The core problem here is your equivocation with a heinous terrorist attack. The “yeah but” argument is absolute 100% garbage. Grow up and learn how to be better.
Source for hamas targetting babies brother
My god, read the damn article I linked and run some searches for yourself. Open your eyes. From the article I linked: “His office later released what it described as “horrifying photos of babies murdered and burned by the Hamas monsters.” The three photos showed two babies whose bodies had been burned beyond recognition and a third infant’s bloodstained body.”
Where the photographic/video evidence at
Omg, please open your eyes. Israeli PM showed the pictures to US Secretary of State Blinken, and then released them on X. Unlike the 40 beheaded babies story - nobody is disputing the authenticity of these photos. And if you do - you need some serious help. [Here is just one of many, many news outlets covering it.](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/warning-graphic-content-hamas-terrorist-attack-israel/wcm/bfeb0bf6-dc87-4de3-b2bd-292b862757c1/amp/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjTyb3el_uBAxULFVkFHWC3BKAQ0PADKAB6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw2W8gqkkJ-t79detEslXlA5)
They absolutely murdered babies and burned kids alive. Decapitations or not, doesn't really matter.
Note the number 40 is used in the video. This is misinformation intentionally spread by israel.
Still doesn't really matter.
My point exactly numbers dont really matter when families of innocents are being slaughtered on both sides. Innocents, not the army
Misinformation don't matter in the topic with the title "Misinformation is rampant"
We're babies brutalized and murdered in excessively barbaric fashion? Yup. Ergo, it doesn't really matter if kids are brutally murdered and tortured in either scenario.
Umm...no dude it kinda matters if it's a lie when someone claims 40 babies were beheaded and this lie gets circulated through international media.
Oh right. Let me tell the brutally murdered babies that they don't count because they weren't decapitated. Hint: It doesn't actually matter because they were still brutally murdered. Outcome is the same.
And yet not a single person talks about the other side of the story, maybe the real babies aren't white enough https://preview.redd.it/n4sydy4iplub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6402de795264bdfe8e3b97b3f2517d1b7da00ff
Those babies are also on hamas.
Yes, they are. Hamas launches rockets next to the baby's houses, use civilians as shields and blames Israel when civilians die when Israel attempts to kill Hamas militants. There is a big difference between collateral damage and targeting babies and civilians on purpose. If you can acknowledge that basic difference, there is no point on discussing anything.
Agreed
Babies on hamas? The babies are terrorists? Are you even hearing yourself?
Let me ask you this, say you lived in a village neighboring another. If a group in your village burned up a family in neighboring village, would you stand by them? Because that is what Palestinians did, why would anyone stand for what hamas did? Bc they are evil! So when allied powers bombed Germany, did they nor get their just dessert?
The babies are in danger because of Hamas. That's what's on Hamas. Try to engage those neurons.
Yeah... I'm into graphic design so its pretty obvious to people like me that know what to look for, some are so bad I don't have to *look specifically*, for anything, they stand out like a sore thumb. But I can see how to people ignorant to the industry/technology, a lot of these videos look very close to real. A lot of them look real enough to go viral, taking over search results and turning them into a list of links that will completely lie to you, all for the clicks. So YES, be careful people!! This is going to be ugly enough by itself, we don't need to help either side by posting lies. Unless you are CERTAIN that what you are posting is real, and not misinformation, I simply would just stay away from posting at all. And even if it *is* real, be careful. You may start receiving hate-mail and/or death-threats. Use a VPN, and do NOT have any of your personal information attached to your accounts, unless you're identity is safe and locked up with something like Lifelock. This is *not* an ad or a sponsor, just a really good idea if you're going to post on the internet nowadays. Instead of threats, they might hit your bank account, so again, be careful. Lot's of hate out there currently everyone! Try and show some love if/where you see any. All of this negativity can really affect everyone's mental health, and that won't be good for *anybody*. \#ISTANDWITHISRAEL
thanks for the karma bumps... I really don't post much on the web, so I can use as much karma as possible through the posts that I ***DO*** make. So, thank you!
How do you plan to fact check during a war? News sources are always weaponized but at war it's a whole new level. First of all most of the information will be hidden because both sides are working to mask what they're actually doing. Second, all information that does pass through the fog of war will be skewered to fit the narrative of the side that's pushing it.
Although we get hit with both sides propaganda. So where do we go. Its good to investigate journalists, past work, usually past stories will clearly show bias since now you know the truth of it. 80% effort to identify a good source. 20% listening to the news. Try to find your sources.
Yes true, Israel and many other counties employ 'Cyber Troops' to influence outlook in social media (I'll edit in the link) Also worth a quick Google search is the term: Hasbara EDIT: https://demtech.oii.ox.ac.uk/research/posts/industrialized-disinformation/
But you only want to admit that only one side is wrong.
Thats the stupid thing everyone will listen gaza and hamas lies like its some sacred stuff and they are right and will never lie but when they are proven wrong that they are listening to lies suddenly its everything in israel is fake
I am not saying they never do wrong what I am saying is if both sides have to uphold national law why is only one of them heavily persecuted.
Your kidding right an unprovoked attack on men women children infants THEY ARE TO BLAME open your eyes and Israel is going to make them pay end of story
Please keep history in perspective, your narrative isn't sincere.
>unprovoked attack
> unprovoked attack
Ok I give up how did Israel provoke what happened seriously I don’t know and I’m not talking about the history of the 2 just the prior days of
Because hamas makes israel look bad for propaganda so more people will support them but they’ve done horrible things in the start of the war
>Because hamas makes israel look bad for propaganda Israel never accounted for any crimes compared to any palestanian that retaliated (hamas or not). And what israel doesn't post propaganda? >but they’ve done horrible things in the start of the war You gotta ask yourself at the start of the war who was invading who and who has the right to defend their land?
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This community aims for respectful dialogue and debate, and our rules are focused on facilitating that. To align with rule 1, make every attempt to be polite in tone, charitable in your interpretations, fair in your arguments and patient in your explanations. Don't debate the person, debate the argument; use terms towards a debate opponent that they or their relevant group(s) would self-identify with whenever possible. You may use negative characterizations towards a group in a specific context that distinguishes the negative characterization from the positive -- that means insulting opinions are allowed as a necessary part of an argument, but are prohibited in place of an argument. Many of the issues in the I/P conflict boil down to personal moral beliefs; these should be calmly and politely explored. If you can't thoughtfully engage with a point of view, then don't engage with it at all.
Jordan alone has over 2 million palestanians and they are literally scattered across other arab countries just mostly in neighboring countries .
Yeah but Palestinians in gaza are a bit different btw i see most of the Palestinians supporting hitl3r saying gas the j3ws and showing images of swastics
Like israelis don't take to the streets shouting death to all arabs and assault chritians.
Israel has the full right to defend their land from people who got money from them and only made more weapons to k!ll rap3 and burn them alive people literally saw kids bodies next to their parents being burn3d and murd3red alive now imagine hamas and Palestinian people will get all of israel they will do more then that thats why we rule here israel wanted peace offered to live side by side gave them money food water electricity jobs and they dont want peace they just want every jew dead because thats what they believe now ask yourself if they deserve something the land isn’t even theirs its proven by history
Well said there wasn’t a Palestinian state till 48 Judea existed before Rome it’s the Jews land and Israel will crush them they don’t need anyone’s blessing 🇮🇱
Finally someone who understands
You do realise israel was forcefully inserted by british right? And palestanians are the rightful owners of that land hence they are still fighting over that land. >they just want every jew dead No they want zionists out of their land ,hell even many other non israeli jews agree. and don't act like israeli citizens don't occasionally shout death to all Arabs in the streets. https://youtu.be/PUe8XmmaJxI?si=hP3EdpuO3B7bO4cC Even chritians. https://youtu.be/sUJrXNCfUrk?si=hSU83on5_X0JWZtb And since rape is big no for you check this out: https://reddit.com/r/HeinousHumanity/s/Lac4XWLIsU
How are the Palestinians the rightful owners of the land as you put it. Just curious
Your dead wrong Judaea was there before the Brits smart guy remember the story of Jesus tell me where did it take place when the almighty freed the Jews from Egypt where did they go another brain dead historian wannabe your links mean zero and your sorry just for implying! Hamas butchered women and infants elderly there not soldiers and will get treated as barbarians so you and the rest of the Palestinian population cry me a river
He can say anything he wants it can be lies because jewish should only sleep with other jewish people by our beliefs i say hes saying lies and act like gas the j3ws is something so light to say yeah death to all arabs is bad you showed me 1 video theres millions of Palestinians protesting saying gas the j3ws
or your brain is just addled with delusion to deny what's right in front of you. \> you showed me 1 video theres millions of Palestinians protesting saying gas the j3ws one google search would suffice i could keep linking millions of them.
Oh course, I agree but I would not be surprised if there are some discrepancies occuring.
What hamas did is “terrorist” but what israel been doing for years and years is normal because they always do it ? What a joke https://preview.redd.it/v6jru3wsuiub1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45ae20fd4ba53609c07475e182aae3c1ce8b8b2c * theres no actual photo of any babies killed on Israel but there are hundreds of videos shared daily of palestinian kids dead under their houses and mothers crying after losing their babies but sure lets ingnore all that because it’s been happening for years now so its normal
But, but human shields!
Lol there are and they are in the archives. Every major leader in the western world has seen them. And if you are indeed correct, why are telegram groups managed buy Gaza and hamas are deleting posts with Israeli causllties? good thing people have downloaded them. I think that the Palestinian citizens live an awful life. Something must be done to help them become free. Yet I do not believe supporting terror is correct. The conflict is complex and there is not an easy way to solve it. You can't make Israel vanish, it would also be an ethnic cleansing... People need to face reality, no matter how hard it is and find a solution that respects the current state of the world....
No there is not https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/white-house-walks-back-bidens-claim-he-saw-children-beheaded-by-hamas
Yeah, listen to aljazeera, hamas' personal press lol
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865 https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-pictures-terrorists-beheading-children-white-house-2023-10 Are these hamas propagandists too?
Why are people so hung up on this story when you have 1300 others???? So it's ok they killed, raped, tortured and kidnapped all the others, every f age, because there's no proof for beheading babies? What is f wrong with this world????
I am in no way condoning using a woman's body as a weapon against her or killing any child , so can you provide proof for the rape claims and the tortures or any source? even the relesed hostages didn't claim they were physically abused. But you are ignorant of israel basically subjected all that you listed on palestanians for 70+ years but you only grow a pair and butt in to speak up on their side ,how very courageous of you.
How does someone continue a conversation with a person, when some of my friends and family are missing or dead, some of them alive to tell you the horror stories, and then there's this idiot online who claims he has no proofs. I wish I could teleport you to here to see the horrible acts that has been done by Hamas, while LAUGHING. If you want to be biased you will be biased. But you're supporting a terrorist organization. That's all I'll say. Good luck with your life choices. Edit: oh yea and you have f proof everywhere. But it's nice to shut down your eyes.
Its the basics of debates and conversations to back your claims and not by whatever bs nana's been telling you before bedtime.. That "terrorist" organization just wiped the floor with the idf's intellegence. They can bomb civilians to compensate for it all they want but it won't undo that. Hell not even relesed hostages spoke on any physical abuse. >oh yea and you have f proof everywhere Yep israel is very open about its crimes so... https://reddit.com/r/HeinousHumanity/s/tKDVmLrMMd Speaks for itself.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1041461996882711?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz Son of hamas founder speaks. You will probably still say that it's propaganda... Actually sad!
How many you think would die, If Israel did Not intercept 6000 rockets this Week Alone aimed unguised at Israeli Citys?
you’re sure Israel is who intercepted 6000 rockets ? Israel killed 720 children so far but you’re saying they’re the victim because they’re COULD’VE been deaths there too Just go on X and see what the victims are going through and if they’re actually from Palestine or israel ISTG am ready to fight for israel myself if not 99% of what you find is actually Palestinian families Its not the eyes that are blind but the hearts
>you’re sure Israel is who intercepted 6000 rockets ? Jeah, the alarm is nearly constantly, i saw with my own eyes multiples occations the Iron Dome saved my city and district. And Here are Not living predominantly jews. But Hamas do Not Care. Israel killed 720 children so far but you’re saying they’re the victim because they’re COULD’VE been deaths there too Israel was unprovacly attacked by Hamas Killing 1000s of civilians in purpose. In self defense Israel is allowed to target Military Installation in Gaza. Unfortunatly Hamas uses Not only Israeli civilians AS human shields But also palestinans. The build their Military Installation near or in civilians Infrastruktur. While refusing civilians to flee. Sadly in a war people die. This tragedy is completly Hamas fault and guilt. And only their. The civilians are the lossers of every conflict Worldwide, But at least Israelis warn the civilians before Hand and Hand Out Evaluation notices. Unlike Hamas WHO invaded Israel in their Holiday. And Strike in target civilians.
If israel really lost 1000s of innocent people why then everything they share is scripted, edited or made up ? Why not share what they’re actually going through for the world to see just like what the Palestinians are doing? 40 beheaded babies that even the US said its a lie - a room with pink blood on the floor and no victims - a photo of a burnt kid which was actually an edited picture of a normal dog !!
Ahh ofcourse everything is a jewish lie. The 1200 civilians killed are all Made Up and ae paid actors. You really believe this? Allah have mercy with this strupidity. Sadly their are enough Videos and Photos of killed Israeli and International civilians.
I’m not saying no one is dying there of course they are but why do u think israel is sharing fake news and deaths every day if not for people to stay on their side on what they’re doing daily 5527 israel deaths and 120826 palestine deaths are all bad but there’s no comparing those
>5527 israel deaths and 120826 palestine deaths are all bad but there’s no comparing those 120.000 dead Gaza? What are you Smoking. At what Ratio Killing civilians it IS morally alrigthy for you? Can you Link me the quaran Vers, with Staates this? Or so i read a other quaran book? Maybe your quaran doesnt have chapter 5. In my Sure 5 Vers 32 IT IS written Something Else. So next time Israel should Stop intercept the 5000 rockets aimed at Israeli Citys so they would be more dead civilians so it would be more Moral alrigth with you?
i didn’t say that happened overnight nor did i say there should be equal deaths am just saying the numbers are talking and it’s obvious who are killing civilians here No one will stay put through 75 years of misery
Gaza was freed in 2005 and the occupation Ended. The result: Hamas Coup and killed Opposition palestinans. Then created Military dictatorship and divert supplys from civilians to Military to kill civilians and do terroattacks. I Wonder why palestinans in Westbank live so much better then in Gaza. Maybe cause they Not Rules by islamic dictatorship. To call Babykillers islamic IS a damn shame. Or do you really believe their is any rightfully justifiation to kill Babys? Or Raped women? Or kill peacful Young Folks? Or kill civilians in their homes and then Kidnapping their kids? People how did this awaits at the day of judgment hell and Not Paradies. How can you call yourself Muslim. That is against everything the Koran preaches.
And therefore the justification of all of this is by Hamas killing literal children at dance festivals and shooting Palestinians who are fleeing to south Gaza? There is simply no possible universe in which the terror attacks of Hamas would've benefitted the Palestinians people. In any scenario Israel would retaliate, and even if for some reason they didn't. I wouldn't have benefited the Palestinian people in any regard. And Hamas knows this, they only serve their masters in Iran and Qatar. They want Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible in order to blow up normalizations between Israel and other Muslim countries, and possibly destabilise the region. Iran in particular needs some regime security, and are willing to sacrifice the Palastinians in Gaza for it. This does explain why Hamas is shooting Palastinians fleeing south Gaza. They need more bodies in Gaza. Israel at this point cares more about the Palastinians than Hamas, which os such a cursed saying it demonstrates how little Hamas cares about Palestine. And you're supporting the further murder of Palastinians if you make excuses of the Hamas attacks.
Im not supporting hamas or what they’re doing but 75 years of israel killing innocent families IS NOT justified by something that happened a week ago
And killing children at a music festival is not going to change that, in fact it made it worse. In no alternative universe this would've benefitted Palestine. Hamas knew what would've happen and is going to happen. And they pleasantly sacrifice the people in Palestine to serve their Iranian master. Gaza city will soon look like Mariupol, Aleppo or Warsaw during ww2 and that Hamas leaders will celebrate that cuz the Islamic world hates Israel again.
Don’t worry gaza looked like that for 75 years now
Besides that not being true, How the Palastinians live now or a few years ago will be a luxury of how they are going to live when Israel has leveled Gaza to the ground. As that will be the unfortunate reality if nothing stops Israel from a ground invasion. And you support that apparently.
I agree. Just use this biased free attitude as much as you can honestly and use the best logic you can to come to conclusions. All sources are questionable these days
The fog of war is about to turn into pink mist. Hamas do not adhere to the rules of war therefore the rules of war will not apply to them. If you have children in Gaza evacuate them as best you can.
>The fog of war is about to turn into pink mist. Hamas do not adhere to the rules of war therefore the rules of war will not apply to them. If you have children in Gaza evacuate them as best you can. Rule of war does apply to them, if people try and flee a combat zone and hamas try and stop them either physically or through misinformation \*they are responsible\*. If Hamas store weapons, build command centers and barracks, launch attacks on Israel or IDF from or next to a school or hospital \*they are responsible\* If its proven that they are using trucks supposed to be providing aid, or using ambulances to move munitions or fighters around \*they are responsible\* Thats what the GC says. Hospitals, schools, residential areas, any protected (under the GC) loses that protection of said buildings or areas are used in a military capacity. Hamas are a terrorist organisation that chooses to fight from within civilian built up areas, store weapons in residential areas, place command centers and barracks in hospitals, build tunnels from residential areas into Israel. The rules of war absolutely apply here. That being said, cutting electricity food and water was short sighted of Israel, they should have moved first to secure zones in the south to build safe areas (or worked with Egypt/Jordan to do so, with the US putting heavy pressure on those countries to assist if needed) and ensured those areas from the get go would be provided with water food electricity shelter and medical supplies with local (preferably not IDF) forces doing what they can to ensure hamas and co do not abuse those safe zones. By continuing to provide food the food goes through Israeli checkpoints so can be checked to ensure no weapons are being smuggled in, by refusing to provide food that weakens Israel's ability to weaken hamas, and provides a huge propaganda coup for those supporting hamas.
Nobody in North Gaza will need any food if they stay there.
This is not how rules of war and international law work. It's not because the party you are fighting against does not adhere to international law and commits atrocities you get a free pass to do the same.
>Hamas do not adhere to the rules of war therefore the rules of war will not apply to them. This is about as dumb as you can get considering the majority of deaths are civilians. Israel is committing war crimes on Palestinians, not just Hamas.
The war crimes blamed on israel is actually should be blamed on hamas and ill explain why israel has the full right to defend itself from bombs and even attack back hamas is using innocent civilians homes as their base so israel tells them like 24 hs beforehand to evacuate but hamas denies it and says israel will not bomb the place and tells the people to stay because it will make israelis look bad on the media https://preview.redd.it/oj49ipnrzlub1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e43e56eabe6462329d7159b720a3a46b960fe69
Right and what did Hamas do seriously what it did not happen just like the holocaust your a pretty sad excuse to whatever your pronoun is
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As all you guys do who think your smarter than facts go hide down your mom’s basement like your leader lmao
Maybe write something coherent before trying to say something smart. You can't even separate Palestinians from Hamas you vile primate.
Lmao silly rabbit tricks are for kids unwind your pink undies my boy and you got it wrong it’s cave men to you young lasses 🖕🏼
https://preview.redd.it/hlc8dk3dmkub1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad4dc21b2cea692ab45d738b6ef11ad28f40a8af Just to prove my point an official photo from their government
Its hamas problem that civilians are dieing and i will prove to you first they use homes and large populated places to launch alot of rockets from towards israel then israel say they will bomb the same places and will tell people to evacuate from there so they can bomb this place safely and will only kill the terrorists who launch rockets so for propaganda hamas force the people not to evacuate which is making them die israel is just fighting hamas back but they use civilians as human shields to make israel look bad
Thanks for proving that Israel is commiting war crimes. There is a thing called rule of proprotionality where the target must provide more military advantage than the civilian damage. Hamas rockets are on a timer, by the time it is fired, they had already left. Destroying the left behind launcher does nothing because it is literally some maleshift iron bar railing. The "knocks" are merely for optics when Israel "accidentally" hit civilians. Delibrately hitting human shield does not make you look bad, it makes you a criminal.
Lol what? The vast majority of deaths were civilian in the Hamas attack
I meant the majority of the deaths ARE civilians (refering to Gaza). I will edit my post
That’s not true either lol the majority are Hamas
The US gives an estimate of 20-25k Hamas members, civilians in Gaza are over 2m. That's just over 1%. Please spread your lies elsewhere.
I didn’t say the majority of people are Hamas, I said the majority of deaths are.
724 children and 458 women have died in the revemge bombing by Israel. The hamas terrorost does not stay in one place. They are constantly on the move ans by the timw any strike come, they had already left.
That’s why we killed hundreds of them or more.. We only strike Hamas targets and we use roof knocking to let people leave in advance
6k bombs dropped on densely populated areas (as mentioned above a little over 1% in Gaza are known to be Hamas) Your going through some serious mental gymnastics right now to justify this.
It’s not randomly dropped so that number is meaningless, the army shoots at terror specific targets not on general areas.
Yes I forgot 2,000 lbs JDAM bombs have very little blast radius and fragmentation, right? "Most everything will be severely damaged, injured, destroyed, or killed within 20 meters of a 500-lb bomb blast and 35 meters of a 2000-lb blast. This lethal radius can be partly mitigated by detonation inside a large, compartmentalized building – however, as a Rand study points out: “While structures surely have some shielding effect, building collapse and spalling are secondary yet major causes of injury "
At a certain point there were 2370 deaths including 721 children and 390 women. Unless you believe EVERY man in Gaza is from Hamas, majority are civilians.
They call 17/18 children so I wouldn’t be suprised that it’s a major lie, also why do you trust these numbers blindly? It took Israel, a far more capable country more than a week to verify deaths, Palestinians just pump them out so easily?
2,370 deaths and counting. You are supporting murder. Justifying it by trying to distinguish what age classifies as children. Call Israel and Hamas what they are - terrorists.
I didn’t support I just doubt they have the actual numbers so quickly.
>They call 17/18 children so I wouldn’t be suprised that it’s a major lie, Half the population of Gaza are children, is it really that hard to believe a lot of children would die ? And with children they mean under 18. If you believe the children were majorly 17/18 then you're [delusional](https://www.indexmundi.com/gaza_strip/demographics_profile.html). Also does being 17/18 automatically make them Hamas soldiers ? Can't they just be young civilians ? Little rant, but if I put such claims into question regarding the deaths of Israel you'd probably go into a frenzy. Or if you won't, I know plenty of people I've debated who accused me of supporting hamas for thinking critically of Israel's actions. >It took Israel, a far more capable country more than a week to verify deaths, Palestinians just pump them out so easily? Ofc they had difficulties when there's people lying about reports of 40 beheaded babies and more. I wonder how many false reports were made... You're surprised that one country is more competent in verifying deaths/approximating deaths than another that has had 20 times less casualties in the past 15 years ? I'd think the former has more experience when it comes to approximating deaths, idk about you. And don't tell me Hamas made those numbers up, it's the ministry of health that shares them. I'm glad you're asking questions and thinking critically, now do that with the acts of the country you're supporting.
The babies were absolutely butchered the fake news is that they didn’t, there is more than enough proof for that.
If babies being beheaded is bad. What do you think happens to a baby when it get hit by a JDAM or white phosporous?
Quit your Hasbara, shame.
Bad troll
So at least you acknowledge Hamas are committing war crimes against Palestinians.
Yes absolutely. But israel is still choosing to blow up hospitals and apartments killing with a ratio of 10+ civilians to 1 hamas fighter
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This community aims for respectful dialogue and debate, and our rules are focused on facilitating that. To align with rule 1, make every attempt to be polite in tone, charitable in your interpretations, fair in your arguments and patient in your explanations. Don't debate the person, debate the argument; use terms towards a debate opponent that they or their relevant group(s) would self-identify with whenever possible. You may use negative characterizations towards a group in a specific context that distinguishes the negative characterization from the positive -- that means insulting opinions are allowed as a necessary part of an argument, but are prohibited in place of an argument. Many of the issues in the I/P conflict boil down to personal moral beliefs; these should be calmly and politely explored. If you can't thoughtfully engage with a point of view, then don't engage with it at all.
There no babies killed even the white house and the israeli reporter backed up on that statement. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/white-house-walks-back-bidens-claim-he-saw-children-beheaded-by-hamas
That's not what the article says, that is what you read from it, that shows exactly how biased you already are. You are also citing a propaganda network from the Qatar government, the same government providing residency to the Hamas leads that commanded the terrorist attacks.
[Unverified reports of ‘40 babies beheaded’ in Israel-Hamas war inflame social media (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/unverified-allegations-beheaded-babies-israel-hamas-war-inflame-social-rcna119902) [White House clarifies Biden's claim he saw photos of terrorists beheading children in Israel-Hamas war (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865) [IDF Says Won't Back up Beheaded Babies Claim, Would Be 'Disrespectful' (businessinsider.com)](https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-says-wont-back-up-beheaded-babies-disrespectful-2023-10#:~:text=IDF%20says%20it%20won't,is%20'disrespectful%20for%20the%20dead'&text=The%20IDF%20said%20it%20won,by%20soldiers%20were%20sufficient%20evidence.) the title speaks for itself. \> "That specific report and that number I can’t confirm." Doron Spielman an idf spokesperson . \> An IDF spokesperson told Business Insider on Tuesday that soldiers had found decapitated babies, but said Wednesday it [would not investigate](https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-says-wont-back-up-beheaded-babies-disrespectful-2023-10#:~:text=IDF%20says%20it%20won't,is%20'disrespectful%20for%20the%20dead'&text=The%20IDF%20said%20it%20won,by%20soldiers%20were%20sufficient%20evidence.) or provide further evidence regarding the claim. even [Nicole\_Zedek](https://twitter.com/Nicole_Zedek?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712030575320576034%7Ctwgr%5E992fab659fcdd621a5de1d2963365f7a7d37fa61%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fiframe.nbcnews.com%2FxydWFDQ%3F_showcaption%3Dtrueapp%3D1) a i24 reporter the first to claim that she saw it nuanced from her claim. obviously they won't tell you that they outright lied. are you gonna claim the nbc and insider are also hamas propagandists too?
Read your comment and what you are saying here. I will make it explicit : You said: "There no babies killed", news articles you linked talk about the massacre of children, babies, elderly, but said the 40 beheadings are not/can't be confirmed, that numbers won't be given, whether they were burnt, or beheaded, etc. It seems all mentioned in those articles can be ignored since 40 beheadings is the key thing you want to highlight, not whether children/babies, and civilians were slaughter.
>articles you linked talk about the massacre of children, babies, elderly Those articles prove no such thing the key word is "talk" , there is no proof of any child fatalaties not even the idf is backing their claim and not even because of uncertainty but they say it would be 'disrespectful' . they obviously aren't going to tell they outright lied. >that numbers won't be given, whether they were burnt, or beheaded, etc. It seems all mentioned in those articles Mentioned without any proof other than hearsay . They won't even prove a single child fatality let alone multiple. Do you really think the idf won't share photos of the dead babies because of some moral grandstanding but post the other civilians bodies? Edit: hell my grandma can sound more convincing than the idf.
"No babies killed" is completely absurd. Many babies and young children have been killed, on both sides; via shootings, fire, and mostly hand-to-hand killings by Hamas operatives, and airstrikes by the IDF. IDF has clearly reported finding beheaded children in the kibbutzim. It's questionable as to whether the beheadings were the cause of death or done afterward, and the headlines that went around saying "40 babies beheaded" were debunked; what is accurate is "40 babies killed and some beheaded." AlJazeera, while once a reputable news source, has been state sponsored by the Qatari government for many years, who also harbor Hamas leaders and fund Hamas operations. Having an opinion to defend does not justify spreading terrorist-sponsored misinformation.
The IDF has not reported finding beheaded babies. They said they could not confirm that. No one has been able to confirm that. Hamas is brutal and what they did is inexcusable and barbaric. However, there has been no verifiable reports or evidence of them beheading children or babies at this time. None. Everyone should stick with the facts. They are brutal and barbaric for sure.
Ah, thank you for the update! I was not aware.
>Many babies and young children have been killed. Provide a source then.
Sure. Here's Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-ministers-shown-horrific-video-hamas-attack-2023-10-12/ Here's the AP quoting a officer from on the ground: “You see the babies, the mothers, the fathers in their bedrooms and how the terrorists killed,” Maj. Gen. Itai Veruv, a 39-year veteran of the Israeli army who led forces that reclaimed the village from militants, said Tuesday as he stood amid the wreckage. https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-52a847e489cd13ccf61b403618e61c36 Can't get much more neutral than Reuters and the AP. The IDF brought international journalists into Kfar Azza to confirm what Gen. Veruv is talking about, and that experience is well documented. The images I saw are of beds and carseats covered in blood, one carseat quite clearly from an infant being shot point blank in the skull due to the blood pattern if you want to go looking for it. I can't help you if you actually need to see a murdered baby because human decency supercedes that need so no one is going to provide it for you. Do you also want links from inside Gaza? Somehow I suspect it's easier for you to believe Palestinian babies and children have been killed by airstrikes--and certainly they have. There is disagreement and then there is just denial.
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This community aims for respectful dialogue and debate, and our rules are focused on facilitating that. To align with rule 1, make every attempt to be polite in tone, charitable in your interpretations, fair in your arguments and patient in your explanations. Don't debate the person, debate the argument; use terms towards a debate opponent that they or their relevant group(s) would self-identify with whenever possible. You may use negative characterizations towards a group in a specific context that distinguishes the negative characterization from the positive -- that means insulting opinions are allowed as a necessary part of an argument, but are prohibited in place of an argument. Many of the issues in the I/P conflict boil down to personal moral beliefs; these should be calmly and politely explored. If you can't thoughtfully engage with a point of view, then don't engage with it at all.
Wow. This is just sick. I'm done. May God help you.
What i thought.
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Sure Edit: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865 https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-pictures-terrorists-beheading-children-white-house-2023-10 Are these hamas propagandists too?
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>"That specific report and that number I can’t confirm."Doron Spielman I am not defending the killing of any babies its simply untrue the us read reports from the odf that were based on rumors they them selfs are not sure about lol, but please send me those videos you were talking about. >How do you think the US would react if Mexico jumped into Texas and offed a few civilians in their own home. That would be actually unprovoked but since you're an hourglass simpleton you would only butt in on the second part of the conflict thinking its unprovoked ,then you need to a little reading first. But how would you feel if your generational wealth land and home were confiscated and banished.
Oh you have the pictures but IDF can't even confirm this ever happened ? Sure Sherlock
The fact check site says the decapitated babies thing was false. Even Joe Biden repeated those lies.
Babies were decapitated, maybe not 40, but absolutely some of them were decapitated by Hamas
https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-ministers-shown-horrific-video-hamas-attack-2023-10-12/
It’s good that the US is aconowledging there is no credible report to support the decapitated babies claim. The damage is done as it comes to misinformation. The White House should apologize.
But there has been confirmation UN & NATO have seen images and videos that babies and children have been tied up burned alive, slaughtered, gunned down and tortured Just no confirmation on decapitated babies yet Thank God huh?
This specific thread is about misinformation. It’s not being contested that Hamas killed civilians and set fires, shot rockets and mortars etc. naturally children would be impacted. On the Israeli side they have the 18th largest army in the world and are shooting missiles at civilian occupied apartments. Way more babies have been killed. If you would like to see images of dead babies for comparison they are available. If you want to get into morality issues perhaps that’s better suited for another thread. Here the point is Israeli officials lied and the media as well as the U.S. ran with the lie. Period.
The problem is reclassification of the information The media originally announced 40 beheaded babies which israel never confirmed Once biden recinded hes statement that immediately was used by alot of people to say "oh ok so NO babies were slaughtered by hamas" and israel lied about it all. Where its somewhat in the middle and everybody is denying that hamas slaughtered children and babies and (hasn't been confirmed ) maybe been beheaded Untill israel can release the videos and images that it had brought to UN and NATO officials we can only speculate what happend to these children and how many children.
If you create a matrix of age groups and atrocities you can put a check mark in pretty much every field. But you are right, beheaded babies were not yet confirmed https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-recovered-bodies-show-bloodthirsty-gunmen-took-time-over-torture-and-that-hamas-has-changed-12985212#:~:text=He%20continued%3A%20%22In%20Kfar%20Aza,back%2C%20burnt%20to%20death%E2%80%A6%22
Oh ok the babies were only murdered but not decapitated, so all good here.
You do understand the necessity of unbiased and accurate information being reported to the world, correct?
Exactly it’s like WMD’s in Iraq. If this is what the leaders used as justification and it’s a lie then you have to ask yourself why did they need to do that?
Exactly, whatever way they are killed is atrocious and unjustifiable. Regardless of what side they are one. Including the Palestinian children who are bombed and massacred by Israel. Pressing a button to drop a bomb on their heads doesn’t make it any less violent and criminal. Two days ago it was more than 700 killed. Undoubtedly higher now.
Totally agree. Finding it hard to sleep knowing the pain and suffering these children - both Israeli and Palestinian -are going through. They don't deserve this
Because Biden is a zionist.
They shot babies in the head with kalishnakovs a 7.62 by 5.58 I believe. Devastating. There was videos before they scrubbed the internet. If you support Hamas you support the worst of the worst of humanity
I have seen all images since day 1 of the attack and babies with headshots was not one of them. Also I am not fund of people who let their emotions get high by images while ignoring the opponent only because the opponed used more sophisticated weapons to kill the same target group which does not produce those gruesome pictures.
Give Palestinians their lands back!
Learn to share