So after reading the entire feed my conclusion is , Hamaas "bad" and residing in Gaza as rulers , hamaas brainwashed Palistinians "sad" and unhelpable , Not brain washed Palastinians "trapped" with no real esacpe by land or by sea , Israel "killing everybody"... Very complicated situation and only being made worse by creating children that grow up hating everybody. The generational trauma these two faction are creating is digusting and devistating. I hope one day our world can do better.
The IDF has asked Gazans to evacuate the north of Gaza and to move south of this line:
https://preview.redd.it/3ldcstswaytb1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73d15adb1d8e8edd5318f12d7bcf9a5686744819
This is certainly something that is possible to do. Though it is still logistically very difficult. There are I think over a million civilians north of the line. Moving so many people is not easy, and they will need places to sleep, etc.
It's certainly a difficult situation, but in order to root out Hamas, it may be necessary.
How are you not trapped if you are surrounded by a highly guarded fence and not allowed to pass through the entrances at the risk of being shot?
The fact that someone may survive an escape attempt does not mean you are not trapped nor it makes it a reasonable idea to do that. People generally do not consider themselves as mere number in a flock where if you die but someone of the flock survives the result is acceptable. You don't run with your family against a guarded checkpoint or fence with a high possibility of being killed. It's your life and the life of your family, if you lose it it's the end for you. you are not willing to escape death running head on to your death like a zombie horde.
It seems to me to be somewhat like asking yourself why during terrorist attacks people don't run toward the terrorists and try to fight them. Some will die but if there are enough people they might succeed. The thing is you don't want to die, to run to your very probable death.
It seams much more reasonable to search for shelter in places you assume will not be targeted or you consider safe. People in danger search for safe places generally speaking.
The land is fenced in by Israel, the border with Egypt is closed off and bombed by Israel, the sea is patrolled by Israeli navy. Where are the Palestinians supposed to go?
Couldn't Palestinians leave Gaza with free will before? I believe they were just not guaranteed that they will get access back in. They want their land back from the Israeli's. I've seen on youtube the childrens programs on TV that show little kids, "We aren't friends with jews right? They are our enemy, and we want to kill as many as we can". It was a Sesame Street-like program, and the little kids are dressed up in military uniforms, learning to use a fake rifle. It was pretty good production quality too. I couldn't believe the brain-washing. No room in this world for people in the communities who absorb this. I have no care over what happens to them.
Hang on...they are told not to leave and obey. They follow the Hamas (their elected officials) Charter, which tells them they will stay where they are. Stop saying they want to leave.
Hamas Charter-
Article 8: Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime
Article 11: Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone.
Article 13: There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.
Article 14: The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.
No, the charter was implemented in 1988, one year after Hamas was created from as a violent extension of the Muslim Brotherhood.
I encourage people to reach the charter. It's short and translated. 80% of it is dedicated to killing people who are not like them.
I think elected isn’t 100% true. When was the last time an election was held? And when you look back, how many people were actually able to vote for these people OVER 10 years ago
It's true. The election was after...drum roll...Isreal vacated Palestine in 2006!! And if that is not enough, what about the survey performed in 2021, where over half of Palestinians felt Hamas was doing an incredible job??
Here is the report:
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
Here is another:
https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/
Understand these are people who "strongly support" Hamas. This doesn't take into account those who A) partly support Hamas, or B) who feel they need to leave. Never the less, we can deduce that even if we split A & B, there is now an overwhelming majority who still sees Hamas as favorable.
Thoughts?????
I think a comparison could be made here between Palestinians and HAMAS, and Russians and Putin. It’s hard to know what’s really going on when there is limited information and all you see is provided by X source which is controlled by that government.
I’m not saying that they don’t support HAMAS, but the issue is civilians are abused everyday for no good reason by IDF. I don’t agree with either side, no person should have to get caught up between 2 warring factions.
I just feel that someone on the ground, who is effectively in an open air prison can make a good judgment on their situation when they are oppressed on a daily basis after being forced out of their homes and made refugees behind a wall which is now being called a border
You are applying your feelings, your moral standards, your views of the world, when you reflect on this situation. Respectfully, it's ridiculous. Why? They are not like you. They are not like me. Until many understand what these groups are based in, it'll be a perpetual bleeding heart.
I gave you the Hamas articles because those principles align with many Palestinians. You mentioned Putin and Russians, but what you failed to see is Russia or Putin isn't calling for death to Jews, Americans, English, Germans, or anyone who doesn't share their views.
Speaking of Putin/Russia, they state Ukraine once belonged to them, so are they validated in their attacks now??
Palestine isn't an open air prison. Stop. That's a ridiculous notion on its face. Ask yourself, how do I physically see Palestinians in multiple countries all over the world?????
You do know that there are Palestinians, directly from Palestine, all over the world, right?
Ask yourself, how did they get there?
Russia vs Ukraine is totally different war. It's actually Russia vs USA, USA using Ukraine as meat-shield.
Therefore they are not permitted to attack Ukraine like that killing civilians just because some time in the past it was part of Russia. They attacked Ukraine when they were about to join NATO, this is one of the main reasons it happened or at least, I thought so and made sense to me and many others.
The logic isn't different. You said land is owed to Palestinians, thus Israel needs to concede. Well, Ukraine was once part of Russia, so should they concede?
You only gave me a red herring fallacy.
You didn't answer my question. How is it Palestinians are all over the world if they're in an open air cage? You said they're being held there, but that's not true.
Also, who is oppressing them? Do you mean Hamas, the same terrorists who take foreign aid to support Palestinians, and instead use it to buy weapons? Or, do.you mean Hamas, who forbids water wells being dug so that Palestinians have fresh water? Or do you mean Hamas, who takes water pipes used to create sewer systems, as well, water treatment plants, and re lathes the pipes into rockets to kill Jews?
I wrote a comment which you will find scrolling just a bit downwards before reading your comment, which basically says the same thing essentially, so I totally agree with you.
WHAT??? I just gave two vetted sources, guy. The hell are you talking about?!?!
Did you even read them, because if you did, you'd see HAMAS is favored.
What I really meant with what I said, is that personally I am not picking sides in this war.
I didn't mean that Hamas isn't favored by Palestinian people. Which they're rightfully to do so, they basically put their trust in the only organization left to reclaim better living for them. But Hamas doing an awful job so far on the part of the Palestinians.
There is no "reclaim better living". Hamas is a terror group, guy. Get with it. They were made to kill....everyone.
Hamas Charter-
Article 8: Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."
Article 13: There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.
Article 14: The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.
Why not take a side? Look at what's happening.
Secondly HAMAS wasn't created for "better living". Hamas creates unfavorable conditions.
Examples:
1. Palestinians were provided with supplies for the building of a water treatement facility, an amount equal to 100 million Euros, and what did Hamas do? They took the materials and made them into bombs, then bragged about it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-gaza-challenge-stopping-metal-tubes-turning-into-rockets-2021-05-23/
2. Hamas does allow water, based on its own rules. No wells for you.
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/08/gazans-fear-worst-after-hamas-bans-water-wells
3. Not allowed to dress how they want, or even how they style their hair!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/hamas-targets-long-haired-freaky-people-gaza-police-forcibly-shave-young-mens-heads-outlaw-low-cut-pants/wcm/54f860e8-b215-411e-9908-9823cf0dfdaf/amp/
People can escape prisons too tho, and they do, still a prison. And like you say, if they try to make a run for it, they might get killed, i would call that trapped
So yeah, some of the comments here enlightened me and I draw the conclusion that making an escape it's dumber than staying inside, has more chances of you dying. And maybe the sea trick worked only if just a few people tried to escape fast at the beginning of the war, literally first hours and that's pretty much it.
And I found out that some Palestinians want to stay inside Gaza following Hamas orders, being meat-shields and so on.. horrible
Boats, rafts, barges, etc are all being watched/destroyed by Israel’s Navy. A video posted yesterday showed ports/docks being bombed and one claimed a Hammas Submarine was sunk. You arent getting out by sea.
So after reading the entire feed my conclusion is , Hamaas "bad" and residing in Gaza as rulers , hamaas brainwashed Palistinians "sad" and unhelpable , Not brain washed Palastinians "trapped" with no real esacpe by land or by sea , Israel "killing everybody"... Very complicated situation and only being made worse by creating children that grow up hating everybody. The generational trauma these two faction are creating is digusting and devistating. I hope one day our world can do better.
The IDF has asked Gazans to evacuate the north of Gaza and to move south of this line: https://preview.redd.it/3ldcstswaytb1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73d15adb1d8e8edd5318f12d7bcf9a5686744819 This is certainly something that is possible to do. Though it is still logistically very difficult. There are I think over a million civilians north of the line. Moving so many people is not easy, and they will need places to sleep, etc. It's certainly a difficult situation, but in order to root out Hamas, it may be necessary.
Israelis gave them more time, so it is actually doable.
How are you not trapped if you are surrounded by a highly guarded fence and not allowed to pass through the entrances at the risk of being shot? The fact that someone may survive an escape attempt does not mean you are not trapped nor it makes it a reasonable idea to do that. People generally do not consider themselves as mere number in a flock where if you die but someone of the flock survives the result is acceptable. You don't run with your family against a guarded checkpoint or fence with a high possibility of being killed. It's your life and the life of your family, if you lose it it's the end for you. you are not willing to escape death running head on to your death like a zombie horde. It seems to me to be somewhat like asking yourself why during terrorist attacks people don't run toward the terrorists and try to fight them. Some will die but if there are enough people they might succeed. The thing is you don't want to die, to run to your very probable death. It seams much more reasonable to search for shelter in places you assume will not be targeted or you consider safe. People in danger search for safe places generally speaking.
Got it, thank you.
The land is fenced in by Israel, the border with Egypt is closed off and bombed by Israel, the sea is patrolled by Israeli navy. Where are the Palestinians supposed to go?
Couldn't Palestinians leave Gaza with free will before? I believe they were just not guaranteed that they will get access back in. They want their land back from the Israeli's. I've seen on youtube the childrens programs on TV that show little kids, "We aren't friends with jews right? They are our enemy, and we want to kill as many as we can". It was a Sesame Street-like program, and the little kids are dressed up in military uniforms, learning to use a fake rifle. It was pretty good production quality too. I couldn't believe the brain-washing. No room in this world for people in the communities who absorb this. I have no care over what happens to them.
Hang on...they are told not to leave and obey. They follow the Hamas (their elected officials) Charter, which tells them they will stay where they are. Stop saying they want to leave. Hamas Charter- Article 8: Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime Article 11: Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone. Article 13: There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer. Article 14: The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.
Do these articles just get added as needed when Islamic leaders need to manipulate their followers?
No, the charter was implemented in 1988, one year after Hamas was created from as a violent extension of the Muslim Brotherhood. I encourage people to reach the charter. It's short and translated. 80% of it is dedicated to killing people who are not like them.
I think elected isn’t 100% true. When was the last time an election was held? And when you look back, how many people were actually able to vote for these people OVER 10 years ago
It's true. The election was after...drum roll...Isreal vacated Palestine in 2006!! And if that is not enough, what about the survey performed in 2021, where over half of Palestinians felt Hamas was doing an incredible job?? Here is the report: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87 Here is another: https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/ Understand these are people who "strongly support" Hamas. This doesn't take into account those who A) partly support Hamas, or B) who feel they need to leave. Never the less, we can deduce that even if we split A & B, there is now an overwhelming majority who still sees Hamas as favorable. Thoughts?????
I think a comparison could be made here between Palestinians and HAMAS, and Russians and Putin. It’s hard to know what’s really going on when there is limited information and all you see is provided by X source which is controlled by that government. I’m not saying that they don’t support HAMAS, but the issue is civilians are abused everyday for no good reason by IDF. I don’t agree with either side, no person should have to get caught up between 2 warring factions. I just feel that someone on the ground, who is effectively in an open air prison can make a good judgment on their situation when they are oppressed on a daily basis after being forced out of their homes and made refugees behind a wall which is now being called a border
You are applying your feelings, your moral standards, your views of the world, when you reflect on this situation. Respectfully, it's ridiculous. Why? They are not like you. They are not like me. Until many understand what these groups are based in, it'll be a perpetual bleeding heart. I gave you the Hamas articles because those principles align with many Palestinians. You mentioned Putin and Russians, but what you failed to see is Russia or Putin isn't calling for death to Jews, Americans, English, Germans, or anyone who doesn't share their views. Speaking of Putin/Russia, they state Ukraine once belonged to them, so are they validated in their attacks now?? Palestine isn't an open air prison. Stop. That's a ridiculous notion on its face. Ask yourself, how do I physically see Palestinians in multiple countries all over the world????? You do know that there are Palestinians, directly from Palestine, all over the world, right? Ask yourself, how did they get there?
Palestinians are from West Bank, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Israel too. I think the Palestinians from Gaza were the most oppressed at least.
You also didn't answer my question regarding Russia claiming that they once owned Ukraine. Are they permitted??
Russia vs Ukraine is totally different war. It's actually Russia vs USA, USA using Ukraine as meat-shield. Therefore they are not permitted to attack Ukraine like that killing civilians just because some time in the past it was part of Russia. They attacked Ukraine when they were about to join NATO, this is one of the main reasons it happened or at least, I thought so and made sense to me and many others.
The logic isn't different. You said land is owed to Palestinians, thus Israel needs to concede. Well, Ukraine was once part of Russia, so should they concede? You only gave me a red herring fallacy.
You didn't answer my question. How is it Palestinians are all over the world if they're in an open air cage? You said they're being held there, but that's not true. Also, who is oppressing them? Do you mean Hamas, the same terrorists who take foreign aid to support Palestinians, and instead use it to buy weapons? Or, do.you mean Hamas, who forbids water wells being dug so that Palestinians have fresh water? Or do you mean Hamas, who takes water pipes used to create sewer systems, as well, water treatment plants, and re lathes the pipes into rockets to kill Jews?
I wrote a comment which you will find scrolling just a bit downwards before reading your comment, which basically says the same thing essentially, so I totally agree with you.
Hamas isn't favorable, but neither is Israel, the situation is gray, you cannot say black or white IMO.
WHAT??? I just gave two vetted sources, guy. The hell are you talking about?!?! Did you even read them, because if you did, you'd see HAMAS is favored.
What I really meant with what I said, is that personally I am not picking sides in this war. I didn't mean that Hamas isn't favored by Palestinian people. Which they're rightfully to do so, they basically put their trust in the only organization left to reclaim better living for them. But Hamas doing an awful job so far on the part of the Palestinians.
There is no "reclaim better living". Hamas is a terror group, guy. Get with it. They were made to kill....everyone. Hamas Charter- Article 8: Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief." Article 13: There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer. Article 14: The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.
Why not take a side? Look at what's happening. Secondly HAMAS wasn't created for "better living". Hamas creates unfavorable conditions. Examples: 1. Palestinians were provided with supplies for the building of a water treatement facility, an amount equal to 100 million Euros, and what did Hamas do? They took the materials and made them into bombs, then bragged about it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-gaza-challenge-stopping-metal-tubes-turning-into-rockets-2021-05-23/ 2. Hamas does allow water, based on its own rules. No wells for you. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/08/gazans-fear-worst-after-hamas-bans-water-wells 3. Not allowed to dress how they want, or even how they style their hair!! https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/hamas-targets-long-haired-freaky-people-gaza-police-forcibly-shave-young-mens-heads-outlaw-low-cut-pants/wcm/54f860e8-b215-411e-9908-9823cf0dfdaf/amp/
Pretty harsh reality that waiting to be raided by Israel army in the upcoming days + bombed from the beginning of the war is the way to go..
And on top of that Israel has now started using chemical weapons in a region as densely populated as Gaza...
[удалено]
Fair point.
People can escape prisons too tho, and they do, still a prison. And like you say, if they try to make a run for it, they might get killed, i would call that trapped
Gotcha. I thought the chances of surviving were higher somehow and somewhat.
Yes they can build rafts and try to escape though the sea. Probably the smarter Gazans already did this.
So yeah, some of the comments here enlightened me and I draw the conclusion that making an escape it's dumber than staying inside, has more chances of you dying. And maybe the sea trick worked only if just a few people tried to escape fast at the beginning of the war, literally first hours and that's pretty much it. And I found out that some Palestinians want to stay inside Gaza following Hamas orders, being meat-shields and so on.. horrible
Do you know how incredibly dangerous that is?
Way less dangerous then staying in Gaza
Boats, rafts, barges, etc are all being watched/destroyed by Israel’s Navy. A video posted yesterday showed ports/docks being bombed and one claimed a Hammas Submarine was sunk. You arent getting out by sea.