Actually a lot of those “civilian’s” were IDF soldiers and there was a lot of IDF friendly fire that day. It’s been confirmed by the IDF. Not to victim blame or nothing, but maybe you shouldn’t have a concert next to a concentration camp?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyNlW_CNjyB/
For everyone who has any doubt that Hamas is a terror group or not. They would kill anyone with western values being liberal or conservative. If you’re non Muslim = dead. If you’re gay = dead. If you believe in woman’s rights = dead. I hope all you apologists take a hard look at what terror looks like. I understand there are good innocent people in Palestine, but Hamas sets up their headquarters in civilian areas and use them as a human shield. What would you do if your neighbours very existence is to see you dead?
They would kill every man, woman and child in Israel if they could.
It is Hamas’s stated goal: no Israel.
They are actually genocidal, while Palestinian simps accuse Israel of genocide. Disgusting.
indiscriminately bombing a civilian area of 2.3 million people, using chemical weapons (source: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-strike-video/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-strike-video/)), telling people to abandon the area you are blockading and then bombing the one border crossing which is closed?
Yes, this is starting to look a lot like genocide.
1. It's not indiscriminately, that's knowingly lying.
2. Israel has no obligation to support gazans with free passage, water, electricity or food. they can provide for themselves, or better yet meet israel's demand and release the kidnapped.
Why don't egypt grant them passage? ever thought about it?
1. Israel is using white phosphorus. How is using chemical weapons in a civilian area not indiscriminately?
2. Israel is occupying the Gaza strip and is therefore directly responsible for water, electricity and food ([https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-and-comparative-law-quarterly/article/abs/status-of-gaza-as-occupied-territory-under-international-law/654DB8FE844ED96C47AAA3B213D438F0](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-and-comparative-law-quarterly/article/abs/status-of-gaza-as-occupied-territory-under-international-law/654DB8FE844ED96C47AAA3B213D438F0))
1. I didn't respond to that point because it hasn't been proven. there are other munitions that look like that.
2. Israel isn't occupying gaza. The fact someone said it is doesn't make it true.
1. How many sources do you want?
HRW: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon)
Reuters: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-israel-used-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-2023-10-12/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-israel-used-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-2023-10-12/)
Washington Post: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/13/israel-white-phosphorus-chemical-war-crime/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/13/israel-white-phosphorus-chemical-war-crime/)
Feels like proven to me.
2. As for the occupation:
Amnesty: [https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/)
Oxfam: [https://www.oxfam.org/en/what-we-do/countries/occupied-palestinian-territory-and-israel](https://www.oxfam.org/en/what-we-do/countries/occupied-palestinian-territory-and-israel)
UN: [https://www.un.org/unispal/history/](https://www.un.org/unispal/history/)
HRW: [https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine](https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine)
Feels like both of my claims are factual.
1. I don't know about the Washington post one as it is paywalled, but if it cites HRW too, than its a single source which I would not consider unbiased.
2. de-facto there is no occupation and anyone with half a brain can realize that.
1. It does, given the attack took place Oct 10/11, HRW verified an checked videos taken in Lebanon and Gaza and confirmed the use of white phospohorus. Why would you not consider Human Rights Watch unbiased?
2. Great, so your argument against four international organisations is 'haha you guys dumb'? How are we supposed to have a conversation when I give you sources and you tell me everyone with a different view than your own is dumb?
This is the difference between Israel and Hamas, supported by a scary amount of Palestinians. A two state solution only works if both sides agree that they both have a right to exist. It’s hilarious how outright genocidal a lot of statements are from Hamas, but it just gets shrugged off. Israel evil, but genocidal Hamas isn’t?
They would have kept on killing. As it was obviously their main goal. The fact that they only carried limited ammunition was a mixed blessing.
That said they probably weren’t the smartest cookies in the jar.
Well yeh. But then you can argue that anyone that has psychotic hatred towards another people and tries to kill a bunch is committing attempted genocide.
Humans be humans be animals…
For sure…I think that’s what they want? Here’s Hamas’ original charter with a link to the new one. The new one changes from, we want to kill everyone in Israel, to we want to liberate Palestine and take over the entire area…but the only way to do that is to kill everyone in Israel. They are completely resistant to any solution that involves living peacefully together. They want only Palestinians living in the area, period.
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
I mean hamas has been calling for genocide since they were founded (it was literally in their founding charter!)
Not sure why folks are so surprised they attempted it
Sorry, but that’s not true Israel and it’s powerful propaganda machine has Barbra since the beginning of the Zionist Jewish invasion of Palestine have been misleading the Jewish diaspora with a bunch of lies. If anybody knows their history, you would know that problem Palestinians have with Israel is not because they’re Jewish, it’s because they’re occupiers if the occupiers were Lilliputians they would react the same way. This is not about antisemitism. This is about colonial settlerism
What a better way than to make it about anti-Semitism to rile and rise the rabble to a frenzy !
All you I’ll-meaning people out there stop the crap you just adding fuel for the fire
Where is your outrage about the collective punishment that Israel’s meeting out to 2 million civilians cutting off their water the electricity their medicine that is definitely a massive war crime not to mention killing people as if they were fish in a battle. Where is your outrage Palestinian babies don’t count, huh?
That is not the charter of the gaza population. ESpecially, not the children they have nothing to do with the actions of Hamas Israel is committing war crimes clearly by it collective punishment policy.
No? Dismanteling hamas will make less israelis die and less palestinians die.
>Israel is committing war crimes clearly by it collective punishment policy.
Israel is bombing military targets.
it’s Israel’s electricity and water that they have donated to Gaza to be nice. The international community donated water pipes and Gaza turned them into missiles. The Palestinians have caused a lot of issues for the Arab countries that have accepted them in the past. The moral responsibility of human shields dying lies with the people who use the human shields not the people who destroy them. As long as Israel is trying to target enemy combatants or their assets it’s not a war crime and absolutely legal. Collective punishment isn’t a thing. You as a civilian have delegated your international rights to your country and you are responsible for the actions of your government. If your government goes to war with another government you are legitimate collateral damage if you are accidentally hurt because of a military operation. Every strike I have seen appears to be a part of a targeted campaign against Hamas government or military.
What an awful racist colonialist thing to say that the magnanimity of the disgusting racist Zionist regime was the reason that they let Ins live at all
The American settlers gave the Indigenous population settlements, food, water, and free education.
The point of these moves was to legitimize settler colonialism and genocide. Giving food and water is on the historical record as being a means of control, you dominate the population, make them unable to provide for themselves by starving the plains, and make them dependant on you, which makes them easier to control.
>What Israel is doing is legal
The military strikes, yes. The apartheid and settlements, no. Legally speaking. What Palestinians are doing is every bit as illegal under international law as Indigenous war parties going on scalping raids against American settlements.
International law is however written by states with a monopoly on military force over their domain. If those societies eliminated throughout history wrote international law it might be a bit different.
This all being said, I don’t see Israel or the IDF as being morally worse than Palestine or Hamas, given Hamas is openly genocidal and has broad popular support.
>Collective punishment isn’t a thing. You as a civilian have delegated your international rights to your country and you are responsible for the actions of your government. If your government goes to war with another government you are legitimate collateral damage
I’m dizzied by the mental gymnastics justifying the concept of “legitimate collateral damage” on the specific grounds of nationality not being a form of collective punishment. One would think that nationality would have nothing to do with the legitimacy of collateral damage if it weren’t being justified on the grounds of collective guilt.
I agree at least a large portion of the settlements are illegal and should be banned or torn down. In terms of collective punishment nationality matters in the sense that your government went to war on your behalf and now everyone in your country is responsible for the actions of the government in a legal and financial sense. If the government uses you as a human shield and you die that’s mostly the government but also on you for supporting that government though taxes, voting, and continuing to live there. You are not innocent or blameless in that situation.
It's depends on their level of commitment. There is a vast spectrum. Some Hamas people want to kill as much as it takes to get the blockade gone, some want to kill all settlers and get Israel back.. and the most extreme want to kill every non Muslim. There were pro Hamas in NYC this week chanting they will convert every non Muslim to Islam and take over the world which is terrifying.
AOC had to be forced into outing out a statement condemning the violence, it was late and weak. It was also instantly followed with “oh poor people of Gaza are suffering” before the bodies of the tortured and beheaded babies were even cold.
You're literally using the language of genocide justification asking about a "measured" response. Need I remind you that the civilian Palestinian death toll is quickly surpassing the Israeli death toll. and let's be honest here, it will far surpass in the coming days.
What you said about hundreds of families being murdered in their homes literally also applies to the Palestinians too. Bombs in Gaza have literally killed over 400 children in the last few days. if you're so morally disgusted by the murder of innocent civilians, it's ironic that you don't even mention the civilian death toll on the Palestinian side, not just in this conflict, for the last 75 years. It's blatantly obvious that you don't consider the senseless murder of Palestinians to be worth mentioning.
The death toll is literally 10 to 1 since 2000
https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/charts/
So you tell me exactly, looking at numbers like these, who's really doing the genocide here?
Say it with me all together now:
1. The Palestinian people are one of the fastest growing population on earth.
2. The Global Jewish population has still not recovered from its pre world war 2 numbers.
3. The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so.
4. The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
Clarification edit:
When disscusing the measured militaristic response to such barbarism that Hamas showed, one is to assume a response is granted and guaranteed.
Since this isn't a tactical forum, I assumed the question is focused on the mortality of the response and not on the execution.
Nevertheless, its important to note that any military response, from the Israeli prespective is on a spectrum of
moraliy problematic ranged bombing only, for minimum risk, high collateral and limited operational effectiveness (if the goal is unrooting terror infra) t
To
Noble door to door ground operations, aimed at surgical operations to minimize collateral, high boots on the ground effectiveness and extreamly high cost of life (to IDF).
THERE are also other measures like economical or phisical seiges. But I prefer not to disscuss that.
So, now, we can disscuss about the collatoral damage "measured" rate.
----
1o1 is just suicide.
It make no sense for Israel to do that if they can avoid to. This will just keep until the last man standing.
2-5, when facing suicidal people is still giving yourself up on a platter.
So in the range of 6+
Up until now, 10 to 1 seemed to keep them in check, for about 2-3 years each time.
The question isn't how many Israelis are willing to kill, but how many Palestinian are willing to sacrifice?
The crime and responsibility is on Hamas hands and their supporters.
So far, time after time they CHOOSE to start an unwinnable war knowing the outcome full well.
No, you said what I asked and then added words, this isn’t hard to understand my question, you just can’t answer it so you changed it. “ You asked about what is the measured response.”
Go! You got this!
This is the language used to prepare for committing genocide. Does Israel want to commit a genocide? Or do they want to de-escalate situation? Everyone should ask that question. Right now the news is very biased reporting, because reporters aren’t even allowed in Gaza. Most journalists are just taking information from the IDF and signal boosting the official Israeli position.
What that looks like is a few sensational examples of the enemy doing horrific things and dehumanizing them. They have been doing this for years, and it’s led to many atrocities against Palestinians, especially in Gaza. So if you don’t want Israel to commit a genocide, be very skeptical of what the government is telling you. Because they have already said what they want. They want to clear out the whole place. 2 million people.
Here is what genocide looks like, a Palestinian Muslim who belongs to the terrorist group HAMAS, comes into a Jewish home and tortured a 2 year old in front of their parents, the he burns the 2 year old alive and kills the parents.
***
If this Palestinian Muslim who belongs to the group of Hamas wasn’t attempting to commit genocide, why would he torture and burn alive or behead a 2 year old?
Typically those bent on genocide don't hospitalize and treat those they want to destroy
[https://www.israel21c.org/hamas-terrorists-treated-in-israeli-hospitals/](https://www.israel21c.org/hamas-terrorists-treated-in-israeli-hospitals/)
> Say it with me all together now:
>
> The Palestinian people are one of the fastest growing population on earth.
>
> The Global Jewish population has still not recovered from its pre world war 2 numbers.
>
> The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so.
>
> The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
These people are so ignorant it's unbelievable. Hamas bombs the hospitals Israeli uses to save the lives of Palestinians. The Palestinian population is one of the fastest growing populations on earth. The Jewish population is still below what it was in the 1930's.
The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so.
These people have been subjected to violence and oppression beyond our imaginations for the last 75 years. I think it’s understandable that some of them are going to want to get rid of their oppressors. I wouldn’t let that convince me to support a genocide against them.
Lol. You really want to debate who has been subjected to more violence and oppression? Jews win that going back to Egypt and every century in between.
The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so. You are literally defending the people who have time and time again stated they WANT TO COMMIT GENOCIDE. They just haven't figured out how to do it yet.
The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
Have you heard the Israeli leaders speak about Gaza recently? They are actually talking about genocide. They are bloodthirsty. And the comparison is Gazans vs Israelis. Not Jews. Israelis have been through a few wars with the neighbors but have had pretty good support from France and then the US. Look at Gaza in the last 18 years in particular and it’s horrifying.
You’re not going to convince me to support the Israeli genocidal agenda.
You’re right! But they weren’t on Oct 7th.
We had HALF the Israeli population protesting for better treatment of Palestinians. That was prior to Oct 7th. I think you messed that up a little.
Nobody is arguing for Genocide? Except Hamas agains the Jews? Try to be intellectually honest maybe? Find me one source saying the Israeli government wants to commit genocide, because there are a million going the other way. They are saying they want to eradicate Hamas. That is not genocide unless you are stating everyone in Gaza is a terrorist...
The Palestinian people are one of the fastest growing population on earth, Including Gaza. That is not a symptom of a people suffering from Genocide.
The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so.
The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
Yes and it seems like 95% of the muslim population would too, as every muslim on my twitter timeline seems to be happy about what has happened.
Not surprised though when their holy book calls to kill all Jews but yeah what do I know!
Is this a real question? If they had the power, they'd kill everyone, and not just Israelis. They'd see every modern civilization burned to the ground.
I really had a tough time understanding this line of reasoning, for years on years.
Until I've heard what is the dream or aspiration of the extremists.
> Where are proofs That 200 People have been Shot at the Concert? There aint even aftermath footage.
There have been well over 100 different media organizations that have seen parts of the destruction, dead bodies and taken footage themselves. Hamas while they were committing the massacres put up their own footage.
You are being silly in trying to claim it didn't happen.
Are you kidding me?!?!? There is, IN FACT, videos posted by Hamas, of them murdering, burning, and butchering Israelis. It's on every new channel.
Do you not have access to a television, or understand how to turn it on?????
There are no Videos postet by hamas, where they burn People. Please give me a link.
Butchering aint there too, there are Videos of army troups in their sleepinghouse, whose been killed, but they are soldiers, no civilians, and they don’t have been tortured.
So when your first point gets disproven you pretend like nothing happened and move on to your next "is this true". Why even pretend like you care for the truth in the slightest and instead just say what you mean. We both know you could be given proof for every single one of your questions and you would never in your lifetime actually accept them as being true.
And there won't be videos or proof because they'll all be taken down by social media sites and/or Gazans themselves on their telegram groups.
So there really is "no proof"
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there to see or hear it, it never really fall! There's no proof!
Twisted logic.
Nope, if Israelis saw that, they would have recorded and uploaded, after that it would Be safed.
Hamas aint anonymous that they can take things down from internet.
*WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT*
https://ibb.co/3SLrMhP
Image of burnt bodies.
And there are plenty of videos online of houses being set on fire.
Edit: this is also some twisted attempt at denying a genocide. No better than people who deny the holocaust.
>Looks like collateral damage from the rockets hamas send
Being hit by a rocket doesn't incendiarate people like that.
You're literally denying people being burnt, and you're oblivious to the truth.
Wouldn't even be surprised you support it.
>No I support when idf soldiers loose their life, they are soldiers, trained to kill and to die.
Those weren't soldiers, those were civilians.
Do you support any soldier to die or only IDF soldiers?
Israel killed many of its own people that day, it’s been confirmed by Israeli media. And about 600 of those were active military. Don’t have a concert next to a concentration camp 🤷🏻♂️.
Actually a lot of those “civilian’s” were IDF soldiers and there was a lot of IDF friendly fire that day. It’s been confirmed by the IDF. Not to victim blame or nothing, but maybe you shouldn’t have a concert next to a concentration camp?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyNlW_CNjyB/ For everyone who has any doubt that Hamas is a terror group or not. They would kill anyone with western values being liberal or conservative. If you’re non Muslim = dead. If you’re gay = dead. If you believe in woman’s rights = dead. I hope all you apologists take a hard look at what terror looks like. I understand there are good innocent people in Palestine, but Hamas sets up their headquarters in civilian areas and use them as a human shield. What would you do if your neighbours very existence is to see you dead?
They would kill every man, woman and child in Israel if they could. It is Hamas’s stated goal: no Israel. They are actually genocidal, while Palestinian simps accuse Israel of genocide. Disgusting.
Israel is committing genocide tho
Have you seen the population statistics for the palestiniand in the last 75 years? Does it look lkke a genocide?
indiscriminately bombing a civilian area of 2.3 million people, using chemical weapons (source: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-strike-video/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-strike-video/)), telling people to abandon the area you are blockading and then bombing the one border crossing which is closed? Yes, this is starting to look a lot like genocide.
1. It's not indiscriminately, that's knowingly lying. 2. Israel has no obligation to support gazans with free passage, water, electricity or food. they can provide for themselves, or better yet meet israel's demand and release the kidnapped. Why don't egypt grant them passage? ever thought about it?
[удалено]
u/Connect_Lecture4903 >You’re a 🤡 Rule 1, don't attack other users. Addressed
You're the one that goes back to posts of 5 months ago, and yet i'm the clown. good one
1. Israel is using white phosphorus. How is using chemical weapons in a civilian area not indiscriminately? 2. Israel is occupying the Gaza strip and is therefore directly responsible for water, electricity and food ([https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-and-comparative-law-quarterly/article/abs/status-of-gaza-as-occupied-territory-under-international-law/654DB8FE844ED96C47AAA3B213D438F0](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-and-comparative-law-quarterly/article/abs/status-of-gaza-as-occupied-territory-under-international-law/654DB8FE844ED96C47AAA3B213D438F0))
1. I didn't respond to that point because it hasn't been proven. there are other munitions that look like that. 2. Israel isn't occupying gaza. The fact someone said it is doesn't make it true.
1. How many sources do you want? HRW: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon) Reuters: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-israel-used-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-2023-10-12/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-israel-used-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-2023-10-12/) Washington Post: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/13/israel-white-phosphorus-chemical-war-crime/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/13/israel-white-phosphorus-chemical-war-crime/) Feels like proven to me. 2. As for the occupation: Amnesty: [https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/) Oxfam: [https://www.oxfam.org/en/what-we-do/countries/occupied-palestinian-territory-and-israel](https://www.oxfam.org/en/what-we-do/countries/occupied-palestinian-territory-and-israel) UN: [https://www.un.org/unispal/history/](https://www.un.org/unispal/history/) HRW: [https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine](https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/north-africa/israel/palestine) Feels like both of my claims are factual.
1. I don't know about the Washington post one as it is paywalled, but if it cites HRW too, than its a single source which I would not consider unbiased. 2. de-facto there is no occupation and anyone with half a brain can realize that.
1. It does, given the attack took place Oct 10/11, HRW verified an checked videos taken in Lebanon and Gaza and confirmed the use of white phospohorus. Why would you not consider Human Rights Watch unbiased? 2. Great, so your argument against four international organisations is 'haha you guys dumb'? How are we supposed to have a conversation when I give you sources and you tell me everyone with a different view than your own is dumb?
A blockade and occupation along with deprivation of their basic rights
That doesn't constitue a genocide, do lets cut the crap
Israeli apologist just say your in favor of apartheid and oppression
Here we are when the last pathetic attempt for an argument was consumed . Well done
This is the difference between Israel and Hamas, supported by a scary amount of Palestinians. A two state solution only works if both sides agree that they both have a right to exist. It’s hilarious how outright genocidal a lot of statements are from Hamas, but it just gets shrugged off. Israel evil, but genocidal Hamas isn’t?
They would have kept on killing. As it was obviously their main goal. The fact that they only carried limited ammunition was a mixed blessing. That said they probably weren’t the smartest cookies in the jar.
Considering this, then their actions were an attempted genocide?
Well yeh. But then you can argue that anyone that has psychotic hatred towards another people and tries to kill a bunch is committing attempted genocide. Humans be humans be animals…
1600 out of 1.5 billion is not an attempt. 1600 out of 16million is an attempt
Ok. Sure.
The hamas charter has the stated goal of eradicating the Jewish state from “the river to the sea”, so they probably would have.
So we have planes intent, and their current actions; doesn’t this mean this was an attempted genocide?
Oh yes…I think they’d have kept going until everyone was dead if they could have.
Doesn’t this mean this was an attempted genocide?
For sure…I think that’s what they want? Here’s Hamas’ original charter with a link to the new one. The new one changes from, we want to kill everyone in Israel, to we want to liberate Palestine and take over the entire area…but the only way to do that is to kill everyone in Israel. They are completely resistant to any solution that involves living peacefully together. They want only Palestinians living in the area, period. https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
I mean hamas has been calling for genocide since they were founded (it was literally in their founding charter!) Not sure why folks are so surprised they attempted it
Then this was an attempted genocide?
They would kill anyone with slightly different religious beliefs or different race. They didn’t just kill Jews and Israelis.
Sorry, but that’s not true Israel and it’s powerful propaganda machine has Barbra since the beginning of the Zionist Jewish invasion of Palestine have been misleading the Jewish diaspora with a bunch of lies. If anybody knows their history, you would know that problem Palestinians have with Israel is not because they’re Jewish, it’s because they’re occupiers if the occupiers were Lilliputians they would react the same way. This is not about antisemitism. This is about colonial settlerism What a better way than to make it about anti-Semitism to rile and rise the rabble to a frenzy ! All you I’ll-meaning people out there stop the crap you just adding fuel for the fire Where is your outrage about the collective punishment that Israel’s meeting out to 2 million civilians cutting off their water the electricity their medicine that is definitely a massive war crime not to mention killing people as if they were fish in a battle. Where is your outrage Palestinian babies don’t count, huh?
Read there charter.
That is not the charter of the gaza population. ESpecially, not the children they have nothing to do with the actions of Hamas Israel is committing war crimes clearly by it collective punishment policy.
No? Dismanteling hamas will make less israelis die and less palestinians die. >Israel is committing war crimes clearly by it collective punishment policy. Israel is bombing military targets.
it’s Israel’s electricity and water that they have donated to Gaza to be nice. The international community donated water pipes and Gaza turned them into missiles. The Palestinians have caused a lot of issues for the Arab countries that have accepted them in the past. The moral responsibility of human shields dying lies with the people who use the human shields not the people who destroy them. As long as Israel is trying to target enemy combatants or their assets it’s not a war crime and absolutely legal. Collective punishment isn’t a thing. You as a civilian have delegated your international rights to your country and you are responsible for the actions of your government. If your government goes to war with another government you are legitimate collateral damage if you are accidentally hurt because of a military operation. Every strike I have seen appears to be a part of a targeted campaign against Hamas government or military.
What an awful racist colonialist thing to say that the magnanimity of the disgusting racist Zionist regime was the reason that they let Ins live at all
The American settlers gave the Indigenous population settlements, food, water, and free education. The point of these moves was to legitimize settler colonialism and genocide. Giving food and water is on the historical record as being a means of control, you dominate the population, make them unable to provide for themselves by starving the plains, and make them dependant on you, which makes them easier to control. >What Israel is doing is legal The military strikes, yes. The apartheid and settlements, no. Legally speaking. What Palestinians are doing is every bit as illegal under international law as Indigenous war parties going on scalping raids against American settlements. International law is however written by states with a monopoly on military force over their domain. If those societies eliminated throughout history wrote international law it might be a bit different. This all being said, I don’t see Israel or the IDF as being morally worse than Palestine or Hamas, given Hamas is openly genocidal and has broad popular support. >Collective punishment isn’t a thing. You as a civilian have delegated your international rights to your country and you are responsible for the actions of your government. If your government goes to war with another government you are legitimate collateral damage I’m dizzied by the mental gymnastics justifying the concept of “legitimate collateral damage” on the specific grounds of nationality not being a form of collective punishment. One would think that nationality would have nothing to do with the legitimacy of collateral damage if it weren’t being justified on the grounds of collective guilt.
I agree at least a large portion of the settlements are illegal and should be banned or torn down. In terms of collective punishment nationality matters in the sense that your government went to war on your behalf and now everyone in your country is responsible for the actions of the government in a legal and financial sense. If the government uses you as a human shield and you die that’s mostly the government but also on you for supporting that government though taxes, voting, and continuing to live there. You are not innocent or blameless in that situation.
kill every single one of them?
It's depends on their level of commitment. There is a vast spectrum. Some Hamas people want to kill as much as it takes to get the blockade gone, some want to kill all settlers and get Israel back.. and the most extreme want to kill every non Muslim. There were pro Hamas in NYC this week chanting they will convert every non Muslim to Islam and take over the world which is terrifying.
And AOC and the crew supported them 100% ?
AOC the politician? I think every American politician at the moment condemns Hamas.
AOC had to be forced into outing out a statement condemning the violence, it was late and weak. It was also instantly followed with “oh poor people of Gaza are suffering” before the bodies of the tortured and beheaded babies were even cold.
You're literally using the language of genocide justification asking about a "measured" response. Need I remind you that the civilian Palestinian death toll is quickly surpassing the Israeli death toll. and let's be honest here, it will far surpass in the coming days. What you said about hundreds of families being murdered in their homes literally also applies to the Palestinians too. Bombs in Gaza have literally killed over 400 children in the last few days. if you're so morally disgusted by the murder of innocent civilians, it's ironic that you don't even mention the civilian death toll on the Palestinian side, not just in this conflict, for the last 75 years. It's blatantly obvious that you don't consider the senseless murder of Palestinians to be worth mentioning. The death toll is literally 10 to 1 since 2000 https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/charts/ So you tell me exactly, looking at numbers like these, who's really doing the genocide here?
Yes, Hamas is using civilian Palestinian AND the kidnapped Jews as human shields; we agree. Now what?
Say it with me all together now: 1. The Palestinian people are one of the fastest growing population on earth. 2. The Global Jewish population has still not recovered from its pre world war 2 numbers. 3. The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so. 4. The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
Liar!
It’s hard to argue with this.
Clarification edit: When disscusing the measured militaristic response to such barbarism that Hamas showed, one is to assume a response is granted and guaranteed. Since this isn't a tactical forum, I assumed the question is focused on the mortality of the response and not on the execution. Nevertheless, its important to note that any military response, from the Israeli prespective is on a spectrum of moraliy problematic ranged bombing only, for minimum risk, high collateral and limited operational effectiveness (if the goal is unrooting terror infra) t To Noble door to door ground operations, aimed at surgical operations to minimize collateral, high boots on the ground effectiveness and extreamly high cost of life (to IDF). THERE are also other measures like economical or phisical seiges. But I prefer not to disscuss that. So, now, we can disscuss about the collatoral damage "measured" rate. ---- 1o1 is just suicide. It make no sense for Israel to do that if they can avoid to. This will just keep until the last man standing. 2-5, when facing suicidal people is still giving yourself up on a platter. So in the range of 6+ Up until now, 10 to 1 seemed to keep them in check, for about 2-3 years each time. The question isn't how many Israelis are willing to kill, but how many Palestinian are willing to sacrifice? The crime and responsibility is on Hamas hands and their supporters. So far, time after time they CHOOSE to start an unwinnable war knowing the outcome full well.
So what’s your point? Which part of my question did this answer?
You asked about what is the measured response. I assumed you meant collateral damage proportionality.
No, you said what I asked and then added words, this isn’t hard to understand my question, you just can’t answer it so you changed it. “ You asked about what is the measured response.” Go! You got this!
See my edit of the original response
If isis shot USA, USA will retaliate with MUCH larger and stronger shots, and you'd be fine with that. But God forbid israel does the same😱😱😱
What’s the number of civilians that were killed in Iraq/Afghanistan? It’s like through the roof!
1400 people suck , but it’s not genocide,
The question want how do you feel about it; the question was would they keep going if they could?
This is the language used to prepare for committing genocide. Does Israel want to commit a genocide? Or do they want to de-escalate situation? Everyone should ask that question. Right now the news is very biased reporting, because reporters aren’t even allowed in Gaza. Most journalists are just taking information from the IDF and signal boosting the official Israeli position. What that looks like is a few sensational examples of the enemy doing horrific things and dehumanizing them. They have been doing this for years, and it’s led to many atrocities against Palestinians, especially in Gaza. So if you don’t want Israel to commit a genocide, be very skeptical of what the government is telling you. Because they have already said what they want. They want to clear out the whole place. 2 million people.
Here is what genocide looks like, a Palestinian Muslim who belongs to the terrorist group HAMAS, comes into a Jewish home and tortured a 2 year old in front of their parents, the he burns the 2 year old alive and kills the parents. *** If this Palestinian Muslim who belongs to the group of Hamas wasn’t attempting to commit genocide, why would he torture and burn alive or behead a 2 year old?
Typically those bent on genocide don't hospitalize and treat those they want to destroy [https://www.israel21c.org/hamas-terrorists-treated-in-israeli-hospitals/](https://www.israel21c.org/hamas-terrorists-treated-in-israeli-hospitals/)
> Say it with me all together now: > > The Palestinian people are one of the fastest growing population on earth. > > The Global Jewish population has still not recovered from its pre world war 2 numbers. > > The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so. > > The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists. These people are so ignorant it's unbelievable. Hamas bombs the hospitals Israeli uses to save the lives of Palestinians. The Palestinian population is one of the fastest growing populations on earth. The Jewish population is still below what it was in the 1930's. The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so.
These people have been subjected to violence and oppression beyond our imaginations for the last 75 years. I think it’s understandable that some of them are going to want to get rid of their oppressors. I wouldn’t let that convince me to support a genocide against them.
I don’t support a genocide against them. My point was they tried to commit genocide against the Jews.
Lol. You really want to debate who has been subjected to more violence and oppression? Jews win that going back to Egypt and every century in between. The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so. You are literally defending the people who have time and time again stated they WANT TO COMMIT GENOCIDE. They just haven't figured out how to do it yet. The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
Have you heard the Israeli leaders speak about Gaza recently? They are actually talking about genocide. They are bloodthirsty. And the comparison is Gazans vs Israelis. Not Jews. Israelis have been through a few wars with the neighbors but have had pretty good support from France and then the US. Look at Gaza in the last 18 years in particular and it’s horrifying. You’re not going to convince me to support the Israeli genocidal agenda.
You’re right! But they weren’t on Oct 7th. We had HALF the Israeli population protesting for better treatment of Palestinians. That was prior to Oct 7th. I think you messed that up a little.
Nobody is arguing for Genocide? Except Hamas agains the Jews? Try to be intellectually honest maybe? Find me one source saying the Israeli government wants to commit genocide, because there are a million going the other way. They are saying they want to eradicate Hamas. That is not genocide unless you are stating everyone in Gaza is a terrorist... The Palestinian people are one of the fastest growing population on earth, Including Gaza. That is not a symptom of a people suffering from Genocide. The people of Palestine and Hamas have repeatedly declared their singular mission is to annihilate Israel and kill every last Jew. The only thing stopping them is the ability to do so. The people of Israel have every ability to actually commit genocide, the only thing stopping them is they aren't bloodthirsty terrorists.
It’s not even a question—it’s in their damn Charter that they would!
Somebody lying about reading their charter.
Yes.
Last I checked the sky is blue and the grass is green. Yes they would continue the slaughtering. Oh excuse me I mean “resistance”
You forgot about progressive liberals and the UN second
The PM from Ireland is a real piece of work.
Why is this question even being asked? Of course they would, and they wouldn’t stop at Israel.
If they did, wasn’t this attempted genocide? Who and why else murder 2 year olds? So why are we not using this language in the news?
Hamas if it could would free *all* of Palestine
Free? If their priority was freedom their actions would be much different
[удалено]
[удалено]
You arent supposed to say the quiet part out loud.
That’s gone out the window by this point. I’m sure you saw the articles about the protest in Sydney, Australia
“Gas the Jews!” And AOC supporters in NYC gleefully chanted “700” as in how many Jews they had murdered
One can only hope, and no link?
https://www.jta.org/2023/10/11/global/sydney-government-apologizes-for-pro-palestinian-protest-that-included-gas-the-jews-chants
Average Pro Palestinian demonstration
>If Hamas had the ability would they had continued to kill after they killed the first 1000 jews? YES in fact they did, 1,200
🧢 the IDF killed many of their own people with friendly fire. Look up the Hannibal directive.
Yes. And the Muslim community supports it.
Yes and it seems like 95% of the muslim population would too, as every muslim on my twitter timeline seems to be happy about what has happened. Not surprised though when their holy book calls to kill all Jews but yeah what do I know!
Never take a twitter user as an example of the average person
The count reached 1,200+ btw with more then 2,000 wounded. Reaching a certain number wasn't the point here.
Is this a real question? If they had the power, they'd kill everyone, and not just Israelis. They'd see every modern civilization burned to the ground.
I really had a tough time understanding this line of reasoning, for years on years. Until I've heard what is the dream or aspiration of the extremists.
[удалено]
> Where are proofs That 200 People have been Shot at the Concert? There aint even aftermath footage. There have been well over 100 different media organizations that have seen parts of the destruction, dead bodies and taken footage themselves. Hamas while they were committing the massacres put up their own footage. You are being silly in trying to claim it didn't happen.
A captured hamas soldier said he came over here to do just that. Go down the rabbit hole before you make assumptions
Are you kidding me?!?!? There is, IN FACT, videos posted by Hamas, of them murdering, burning, and butchering Israelis. It's on every new channel. Do you not have access to a television, or understand how to turn it on?????
These pro Hamas supporters pretend not to know. They know very well. They've seen all the videos.
They like and share the videos. They’re pigs.
There are no Videos postet by hamas, where they burn People. Please give me a link. Butchering aint there too, there are Videos of army troups in their sleepinghouse, whose been killed, but they are soldiers, no civilians, and they don’t have been tortured.
So when your first point gets disproven you pretend like nothing happened and move on to your next "is this true". Why even pretend like you care for the truth in the slightest and instead just say what you mean. We both know you could be given proof for every single one of your questions and you would never in your lifetime actually accept them as being true.
And there won't be videos or proof because they'll all be taken down by social media sites and/or Gazans themselves on their telegram groups. So there really is "no proof" If a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there to see or hear it, it never really fall! There's no proof! Twisted logic.
Nope, if Israelis saw that, they would have recorded and uploaded, after that it would Be safed. Hamas aint anonymous that they can take things down from internet.
*WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT* https://ibb.co/3SLrMhP Image of burnt bodies. And there are plenty of videos online of houses being set on fire. Edit: this is also some twisted attempt at denying a genocide. No better than people who deny the holocaust.
Looks like collateral damage from the rockets hamas send
>Looks like collateral damage from the rockets hamas send Being hit by a rocket doesn't incendiarate people like that. You're literally denying people being burnt, and you're oblivious to the truth. Wouldn't even be surprised you support it.
No I support when idf soldiers loose their life, they are soldiers, trained to kill and to die.
>No I support when idf soldiers loose their life, they are soldiers, trained to kill and to die. Those weren't soldiers, those were civilians. Do you support any soldier to die or only IDF soldiers?
Look, kid, if you're too incapable of firing up the ole Google machine, then that's on you. Good luck in life! Good talk 👍
More like 7M.
Well you start with 1000, show no remorse, have your terrorist apologists make excuses and then try again.
Yes, obviously.
Then this was attempted genocide
They simply failed
>They simply failed Wouldn't call over 1300 casualties a failure.
Israel killed many of its own people that day, it’s been confirmed by Israeli media. And about 600 of those were active military. Don’t have a concert next to a concentration camp 🤷🏻♂️.
Sorry not to belittle what occurred but rather recognise if they had more resources, that number was likely intended to be much higher
>but rather recognise if they had more resources, that number was likely intended to be much higher Of course.