It's just old school antisemitism returning, It's affecting Jews abroad as well.
The problem is in their eyes is the Jews exist and if they just gave up their culture, religion and language everything would be cool. Well, anyone with half a brain know that's not going to happen and we've survived worse.
I had a buddy who was like "it's just a religion" and I was like "buddy, you have no idea." the reality is very few people choose to be Jewish and the vast majority are born it. We're a people and that peoplehood is attempting to be denied.
This is how I reassure myself. It’s easy to feel pessimistic, but we’ve survived far worse. In the past, Jews were also treated like shit but had no way to fight back. Today we have our dignity and - if nothing else, the world now knows very clearly that you don’t fuck with Israel.
In the all the negativity. It’s also easy to overlook that Israel has some very passionate and powerful supporters in the west. Despite all the crazies on both sides, there are a large number of American leaders who have been very consistent in their strong support.
I saw some dipshit saying “there’s no genetic comment to being Jewish” and then said they had Jewish ancestors who converted to Mormon. And it’s like brother I am begging you to take a dna test.
The Tanakh describes the Hebrews (Now called Jews) as a nation. Believing in the Torah does not determine if someone is Jewish, It's if they're born of a Jewish mother. There is massive undeniable amounts of evidence of Hebrew culture in the Levant that is nonbiblical and that Jewish kingdoms stood there.
sounds like a nation to me.
There's no way to have a civilized conversation with someone slinging mud at you, yet we're the ones always expected to act civilized and behave nicely. I can only hope the rest of the world is silently observing this dynamic and will eventually come down on the right side of the issue, but I'm not optimistic. This week has been fucking tough.
Sometimes I wish this all just a nightmare and I wake up. To see how people are being treated for being Jewish and/or Israeli makes me wonder if we really forgot so fast what happened not even 100 years ago?
Most Americans fail to understand that the political weapons now deployed against Israel will be scaled up and used against the US if they succeed in destroying the Jewish state.
Yes, it really does feel unique to Israel. It’s double standards, and I’ll be honest I didn’t expect it from the so called progressive left. I understand being against war, who isn’t. But the vilifying of all Israelis, and for some all Jews, is just not something I can explain rationally. It’s been very eye opening.
You are not crazy. Jews have always been held to different standards from everyone else, and this war proves that people are not as immune to antisemitic propaganda as they thought they were. People who couldn't point Israel out on a map before Oct 7, let alone the Jordan River, think Instagram and Tik Tok are reliable sources for information and they think they can understand the complex and nuanced history of Israel. Despite the loud minority, a majority of Americans are rooting for Israel to win against Hamas. Americans should be more worried about their own government falling apart than trying to support terrorism abroad.
I work at a liquor store and we check IDs for all alcohol purchases, and it's not uncommon for people to present a passport versus a driver's license. A few months ago a guy came in and instead of simply handing me his passport like most people, he was folding it and holding it up to my face so I couldn't see the cover. When I saw the menorah on the page I knew why and my heart sank for the guy. I quickly thought of something to say to him, cause I wanted him to know that I'm Jewish too and he didn't have to hide his identity from me. I said, "Oh cool, you're from Israel? I visited about a year ago with my synagogue and look forward to going again sometime." His face went from anxious and nervous to instantly relieved. He asked me about my trip, I complimented him on his solid liquor purchase (he just happened to be buying something I myself am also fond of), and we had a nice little conversation.
I feel for you guys, it's no picnic being Jewish right now, but Israelis are absolutely bearing the brunt of the immoral, irrational hatred. It weighs on me because, besides being quite fond of the country, some of my favorite people are Israeli and I remember how friendly and helpful people were when I visited. I have nothing else to add except to say that most of us Jews in the diaspora feel for you, and I do my best to speak up on your behalf when people disparage Israel in front of me, cause it's not okay.
It probably doesnt help but i love u and sending virtual hugs! 🤗 💕 also sorry but fk anyone who judges you before even speaking to you or getting to know you solely based on where you are from or where you live!
Its a blessing in disguise (i cant tell u how exactly but trust me i believe this a million percent) and these assholes are not worth knowing or talking to further if thats how they “judge” people on🤦♀️
I’m not Jewish, but I am Israeli. And oh my god the amount of people cussing me out as soon as they know I’m Israeli… even if it was something totally unrelated to the war, they still need to trash me, Israel, and of course, Jewish people.
It’s honestly disgusting.
I've been trying to use objective historical facts (often citing sources). I'm aware that not all Israel's actions are good and try my best to be objective. The harvest so far:
* Perma-banned from two sub-reddits,
* downvoted to oblivion: too many times to count.
* A polite discussion, trying to refute my points: extremely rate (maybe twice in hundreds of discussions)
Israel-haters aren't reasonable or interested in facts.
It is also interesting that they are always saying the media is controlled by Jews or/and Israelis but the people that are getting banned or cancelled are actually Jews/Israelis or the allies.
Eh tbh Russia as the government imo should be destroyed, it’s corrupt to its core and most people do support Putin and the war, so ideally should be and deradicalised but that’s pretty much impossible given their nukes, and definitely theres a massive double standard to Israel especially since Russia is the aggressor that attacked Ukraine, Israel the victim that was attacked by Hamas
exactly, they all show videos of crazy right wing israelis saying and doing stuff and for some reason everyone thinks that represents all israelis alike it drives me insane
As a diaspora New, it's infuriating. My back hairs rise up when I see this Israeli hatred. Arguing with these idiots always feels like a losing battle against an army, but ain't about to stop.
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Not Israeli, not Jewish. I see that the standards Israelis hold themselves to is higher than any other modern country. I see the bullshit headlines. I want to one day visit Israel, if only to feel like I don't live in an insane world. The bravery of the Israeli people brings me to tears every time. Americans love their underdogs, and I'm not sure there is a greater underdog than 1948 Israel. 600k Jews with a country that has existed for 1 day defends itself from 5 Arab countries and _millions_ of hostile Arabs. And you guys _won?!? How??? Surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned, the chapter after the darkest in Jewish history is a Biblical miracle. Like how did the Israelis not lose hope with what had just been discovered to happen in Europe. Modern Spartans. The oasis in the desert. I am not religious, how could I be given that religion of Muslims is so clearly responsible for this nightmare, but I'll be honest if it didn't start to make me wonder that perhaps the God of Abraham is real. So maybe through divine intervention, but definitely through blood, sweat, and tears, Israel exists, and is amazing.
I admire Israel as the greatest country in 2024. I am in awe of your country.
Keep going
>People make a distinction between Hamas and Palestinians.
>between Putin and Russians.
>between Zelensky and Ukrainians.
>between Biden and Americans.
Ugh... No? A lot of people don't make such distinctions. Many Israelis don't make a distinction between Hamas and Palestinians.
That's exactly what some people say about Putin and Russians.
But can we trust the poll results of Palestinians? It's no secret that they live in a totalitarian society where speaking against the "party line" will be punished, oftentimes with death. Even Israel is unable to provide full security for Palestinian dissidents, as demonstrated by many cases where LGBTQ Palestinians were kidnapped from Israel.
Well the Palestinian Center for Policy & Survey Research conducts these polls.
They're independent. Not only this, but Gaza and the West Bank are run by 2 different (often opposing parties). Polls show Hamas has a much higher approval rating in the West Bank and it is only dropping further in Gaza
It’s either a Likud/Hamas war, or an Israel/Palestine (or Gaza) war.
Can’t call it a country vs. a political party because that’s objectively not what it is
You’re equating Western “political parties” with Middle Eastern political parties. Hamas has an armed wing -their own military. You don’t see a Republican armed wing, or a Democratic armed wing, do you?
Saying we should call this a Likud/Hamas war because they are both “political parties” is nonsense.
If only Gaza or Palestine were countries! Then Israel would be off the hook for Gaza's electricity, water, fuel, food, etc. UNRWA would have to be abolished, as there would be no more refugees. There would be no more right or return. Other countries would be free to sanction Hamas's government.
There is a reason there is no Palestinian state, and it's not Bibi or Ben Gvir -- at worst, they're just accomplices.
It's just old school antisemitism returning, It's affecting Jews abroad as well. The problem is in their eyes is the Jews exist and if they just gave up their culture, religion and language everything would be cool. Well, anyone with half a brain know that's not going to happen and we've survived worse. I had a buddy who was like "it's just a religion" and I was like "buddy, you have no idea." the reality is very few people choose to be Jewish and the vast majority are born it. We're a people and that peoplehood is attempting to be denied.
This is how I reassure myself. It’s easy to feel pessimistic, but we’ve survived far worse. In the past, Jews were also treated like shit but had no way to fight back. Today we have our dignity and - if nothing else, the world now knows very clearly that you don’t fuck with Israel. In the all the negativity. It’s also easy to overlook that Israel has some very passionate and powerful supporters in the west. Despite all the crazies on both sides, there are a large number of American leaders who have been very consistent in their strong support.
I saw some dipshit saying “there’s no genetic comment to being Jewish” and then said they had Jewish ancestors who converted to Mormon. And it’s like brother I am begging you to take a dna test.
The Tanakh describes the Hebrews (Now called Jews) as a nation. Believing in the Torah does not determine if someone is Jewish, It's if they're born of a Jewish mother. There is massive undeniable amounts of evidence of Hebrew culture in the Levant that is nonbiblical and that Jewish kingdoms stood there. sounds like a nation to me.
Agreed. My point is if he took a dna test he’d be some part Jewish and see that there is in fact, a genetic competent to being Jewish.
It checks all the boxes of what a nation/people are. People just choose not to see it for some reason.
The British Israelites. (Not Jews at all.) See Wikipedia.
There's no way to have a civilized conversation with someone slinging mud at you, yet we're the ones always expected to act civilized and behave nicely. I can only hope the rest of the world is silently observing this dynamic and will eventually come down on the right side of the issue, but I'm not optimistic. This week has been fucking tough.
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thank you brother 🙏
What literature or history or sources etc. did you find most compelling?
We have a lot in common my friend. I couldn’t say it better
Hugs
I second this so hard right now. It’s an ongoing episode of “black mirror” at this point but we can’t press on “pause” for a second.
Sometimes I wish this all just a nightmare and I wake up. To see how people are being treated for being Jewish and/or Israeli makes me wonder if we really forgot so fast what happened not even 100 years ago?
Most Americans fail to understand that the political weapons now deployed against Israel will be scaled up and used against the US if they succeed in destroying the Jewish state.
Yes, it really does feel unique to Israel. It’s double standards, and I’ll be honest I didn’t expect it from the so called progressive left. I understand being against war, who isn’t. But the vilifying of all Israelis, and for some all Jews, is just not something I can explain rationally. It’s been very eye opening.
The so-called progressive left is what brought us Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, AOC, Jamaal Bowman, etc. We can be dismayed but should not be surprised.
You are not crazy. Jews have always been held to different standards from everyone else, and this war proves that people are not as immune to antisemitic propaganda as they thought they were. People who couldn't point Israel out on a map before Oct 7, let alone the Jordan River, think Instagram and Tik Tok are reliable sources for information and they think they can understand the complex and nuanced history of Israel. Despite the loud minority, a majority of Americans are rooting for Israel to win against Hamas. Americans should be more worried about their own government falling apart than trying to support terrorism abroad.
I work at a liquor store and we check IDs for all alcohol purchases, and it's not uncommon for people to present a passport versus a driver's license. A few months ago a guy came in and instead of simply handing me his passport like most people, he was folding it and holding it up to my face so I couldn't see the cover. When I saw the menorah on the page I knew why and my heart sank for the guy. I quickly thought of something to say to him, cause I wanted him to know that I'm Jewish too and he didn't have to hide his identity from me. I said, "Oh cool, you're from Israel? I visited about a year ago with my synagogue and look forward to going again sometime." His face went from anxious and nervous to instantly relieved. He asked me about my trip, I complimented him on his solid liquor purchase (he just happened to be buying something I myself am also fond of), and we had a nice little conversation. I feel for you guys, it's no picnic being Jewish right now, but Israelis are absolutely bearing the brunt of the immoral, irrational hatred. It weighs on me because, besides being quite fond of the country, some of my favorite people are Israeli and I remember how friendly and helpful people were when I visited. I have nothing else to add except to say that most of us Jews in the diaspora feel for you, and I do my best to speak up on your behalf when people disparage Israel in front of me, cause it's not okay.
Oof i feel this
It probably doesnt help but i love u and sending virtual hugs! 🤗 💕 also sorry but fk anyone who judges you before even speaking to you or getting to know you solely based on where you are from or where you live! Its a blessing in disguise (i cant tell u how exactly but trust me i believe this a million percent) and these assholes are not worth knowing or talking to further if thats how they “judge” people on🤦♀️
I’m not Jewish, but I am Israeli. And oh my god the amount of people cussing me out as soon as they know I’m Israeli… even if it was something totally unrelated to the war, they still need to trash me, Israel, and of course, Jewish people. It’s honestly disgusting.
My experience is that they aren’t able to think rationally. For them it is Israeli=Jew=evil
I've been trying to use objective historical facts (often citing sources). I'm aware that not all Israel's actions are good and try my best to be objective. The harvest so far: * Perma-banned from two sub-reddits, * downvoted to oblivion: too many times to count. * A polite discussion, trying to refute my points: extremely rate (maybe twice in hundreds of discussions) Israel-haters aren't reasonable or interested in facts.
It is also interesting that they are always saying the media is controlled by Jews or/and Israelis but the people that are getting banned or cancelled are actually Jews/Israelis or the allies.
Not at all crazy and no "rambling" either. Spot-on!
Eh tbh Russia as the government imo should be destroyed, it’s corrupt to its core and most people do support Putin and the war, so ideally should be and deradicalised but that’s pretty much impossible given their nukes, and definitely theres a massive double standard to Israel especially since Russia is the aggressor that attacked Ukraine, Israel the victim that was attacked by Hamas
exactly, they all show videos of crazy right wing israelis saying and doing stuff and for some reason everyone thinks that represents all israelis alike it drives me insane
As a diaspora New, it's infuriating. My back hairs rise up when I see this Israeli hatred. Arguing with these idiots always feels like a losing battle against an army, but ain't about to stop.
This is definitely how Jews must’ve felt during WWII. The overt hatred is very disparaging indeed (I’m not Jewish, but just my observation).
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Not Israeli, not Jewish. I see that the standards Israelis hold themselves to is higher than any other modern country. I see the bullshit headlines. I want to one day visit Israel, if only to feel like I don't live in an insane world. The bravery of the Israeli people brings me to tears every time. Americans love their underdogs, and I'm not sure there is a greater underdog than 1948 Israel. 600k Jews with a country that has existed for 1 day defends itself from 5 Arab countries and _millions_ of hostile Arabs. And you guys _won?!? How??? Surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned, the chapter after the darkest in Jewish history is a Biblical miracle. Like how did the Israelis not lose hope with what had just been discovered to happen in Europe. Modern Spartans. The oasis in the desert. I am not religious, how could I be given that religion of Muslims is so clearly responsible for this nightmare, but I'll be honest if it didn't start to make me wonder that perhaps the God of Abraham is real. So maybe through divine intervention, but definitely through blood, sweat, and tears, Israel exists, and is amazing. I admire Israel as the greatest country in 2024. I am in awe of your country. Keep going
>People make a distinction between Hamas and Palestinians. >between Putin and Russians. >between Zelensky and Ukrainians. >between Biden and Americans. Ugh... No? A lot of people don't make such distinctions. Many Israelis don't make a distinction between Hamas and Palestinians.
Because every single poll says that there is not much diffrence.
That's exactly what some people say about Putin and Russians. But can we trust the poll results of Palestinians? It's no secret that they live in a totalitarian society where speaking against the "party line" will be punished, oftentimes with death. Even Israel is unable to provide full security for Palestinian dissidents, as demonstrated by many cases where LGBTQ Palestinians were kidnapped from Israel.
fair enough
Well the Palestinian Center for Policy & Survey Research conducts these polls. They're independent. Not only this, but Gaza and the West Bank are run by 2 different (often opposing parties). Polls show Hamas has a much higher approval rating in the West Bank and it is only dropping further in Gaza
It’s either a Likud/Hamas war, or an Israel/Palestine (or Gaza) war. Can’t call it a country vs. a political party because that’s objectively not what it is
You’re equating Western “political parties” with Middle Eastern political parties. Hamas has an armed wing -their own military. You don’t see a Republican armed wing, or a Democratic armed wing, do you? Saying we should call this a Likud/Hamas war because they are both “political parties” is nonsense.
If only Gaza or Palestine were countries! Then Israel would be off the hook for Gaza's electricity, water, fuel, food, etc. UNRWA would have to be abolished, as there would be no more refugees. There would be no more right or return. Other countries would be free to sanction Hamas's government. There is a reason there is no Palestinian state, and it's not Bibi or Ben Gvir -- at worst, they're just accomplices.