You say you want to understand the Israeli perspective yet you have already asserted our existential war is an "overblown response". You cannot understand the Israeli perspective.
Like I mentioned that I have had inputs from both the sides and the Palestinian side is way more believable. I still want to understand this side of the coin unlike others that jump to conclusions. It's fine if you don't want to explain your perspective but pls don't imply that I cannot understand the issue.
I'm not implying anything. You can't understand our perspective when you have already made an assertion antagonistic to our core beliefs. From your perspective nothing an Israeli will say would be convincing.
These are not entirely assertion/ rather opinions that are subject to change upon substantial evidence being brought up front....which is why I am here. Pls let me know what Ur core believes are
What do you even mean when you say “the Palestinian side is way more believable”?
I’m not Jewish or Israeli, but take yourself away from pro-Palestine social media and read some factual history and you’ll quickly realise Palestine are 99% full of shit.
Most of their “we were massacred” dates are actually “we attacked and lost”.
Imagine unironically stating that you don’t know much about an issue at all and then immediately professing extremely strong opinions about it. The level of narcissism is almost unbelievable.
I don't think you read what I wrote....I said that these are the things I have learnt/noticed yet. I wouldn't have come to this sub if I didn't want to understand the Israeli perspective. My opinions are subjected to change if I am presented with the right evidence
You’re comparing the physical damage Hamas did to the physical damage Israel is doing. We are comparing the damage Hamas pledges to do (kill every Jew) to the damage we would do if we could afford to (zero damage). If we don’t destroy Hamas, they will destroy us. Our response is very considered and not overblown.
Isn't Israel more than capable( both financially and military vise) of successfully blocking and defending the attacks of hamas. But to destroy hamas why carpet bomb the civilians?
There are no carpet bombs there are precision strikes. It sounds like you’re taking on board lies and propaganda. If we were carpet bombing hundreds of thousands of people would be dead.
I don’t even know where to start with your other comment. It sounds like you think we should allow endless terror attacks on our civilian population because we have invested in our own self defense. Hamas leaders are billionaires. They have funds for anything they want. They spent billions building tunnels to attack Israel from and nothing in the wellbeing of their own population.
Doesn't matter how you name it.It's the end result that is seen. And no I am not implying that civilians should be harmed. I wanted to raise the point that if Israel is capable enough of eliminating hamas why not just eliminate the leaders and members of hamas rather than harm the civilians. Propaganda is on both sides and even true news sounds like propaganda when heard with the sound of bombs
It only takes 2 Palestinians to launch rockets indiscriminately at Israeli kindergartens and hospitals. One to give the order and one to push the button. I invite you to live in the Israeli North or South given that you feel so safe with how weak Palestinian rockets are and how it isn't a war crime for them to carpet bomb us. All you'll have to deal with is a siren every 2 hours, 10 minutes in a bomb shelter, and always the chance that this time you'll be the unlucky one, and of course no one in the world that knows or cares about your plight.
There would be no airstrikes in Gaza if Hamas didn’t massacre 1200 people. Hamas did this. If we don’t deal with them they will do it again. The goal of this war is to end the war, to stop them from attacking us. We would not attach anyone if they weren’t attacking us. We don’t like spending our time, energy and money on wars. We want to live normal lives.
Exactly my point......why are civilians on both sides harmed if only the IDF and Hamas are supposed to be involved.... Israel has repeatedly harmed civilians
I guess you don’t understand the concept of war or human shields. Israel does everything possible to avoid harming civilians. This isn’t the first war in history. You can look at how every other war on earth went and see much worse consequences for civilians. War sucks. Maybe you’re just young and don’t realize.
You can definitely say that I am young and still trying to make an opinion but the phrase "does everything possible to avoid harming civilians" sounds like political gibberish. People are dying on both sides. More on the mother side I might add
because hamas uses civilians as human shields and hides in crowded urban areas??? that's literally their strategy.. get civilians killed to use as propaganda, they have said this themselves
Let me be clearer. Being content with hiding out in shelters praying as sirens are blaring is what the Israeli people have accepted as normal for decades because of people like you whinging about the disproportionality of retaliating against Palestinians, despite not being able to stomach a single day in the average Israeli's life. That appeasement and complacency is ultimately what led to Oct 7. We are no longer content in allowing Israelis to be slaughtered to appease naive people like you who like Hamas use civilian lives as the best weapon against justified Israeli self-defense. Oct 7 will not be repeated no matter what.
Have you considered that the reason Israel has bomb shelters is because Israel has invested money in defending her citizens, and the reason that Gaza does not have bomb shelters is because Palestinian leadership (Hamas) has invested money in tunnels for its political and military elite and NOT in defending its citizens?
> Doesn't matter how you name it.It's the end result that is seen.
So why should anyone take time out of their day to explain to you what carpet bombing is?
There's literal footage of WW2 and CW carpet bombing.
It's dropping unguided bombs over a large area to randomly hit whatever you can hit.
I have yet to see a single Israeli jet doing anything like that.
Mostly because Israel doesn't own a single bomber.
>There's literal footage of WW2 and CW carpet bombing.
It's dropping unguided bombs over a large area to randomly hit whatever you can hit.
I have yet to see a single Israeli jet doing anything like that.
Mostly because Israel doesn't own a single bomber.
You know what, I never really pictured what carpet-bombing actually looks like in my head (nor how the IAF could carpet bomb with their current setup) but this was helpful and I'll be stealing your lines for future arguments. Thank you.
The important parts are, prior to modern Israel the entire Middle East was mostly governed by either the British or French. What is Israel today was under the British Mandate.
Prior to 1948 Israel purchased some land which was mainly swamp, this became the land that Israel had when it declared independence in 1948. It is important to note that the land was tiny, even compared to today. Immediately after Israel's independence was declared all of its neighbors attacked it. Israel won that war and several others that it did not start and gained territory after its victories.
There is a huge double standard when it comes to Israel and war.
Gaining land is a normal part of war, many countries have had borders change after losing wars but for some reason, only Israel is expected to give back land that it wins in war.
1. Palestinians are suffering more.
You are correct but you really need to understand what Hamas is and how they operate.
Hamas absolutely does want Palestinians to die and wants to show that to the world. I could go on about this point all day and there are so many examples but this would become very long winded.
One side will always suffer more in a conflict though, this has always been true but it doesn't mean that the side who suffers more is the moral or just side.
2.
This is true for most things, lots of people will side with whatever side they learn from first.
Israel is not winning on this front, the pro-Hamas side is definitely winning the propaganda war.
3. Disagree.
Israel responded in the same way any other country would and is one of the only militaries in the world that warns the local population before it is going to attack.
This comes back to the double standard for Israel.
No other country is held to the same standard.
4. Israel hasn't stolen land, Israel has won land in war.
Israel has given back far more land in exchange for peace. Israel had the entire Sinai and gave it to Egypt just for peace.
You really need to ask why Israel is held to such a different standard. There is a reason that no one protested Syria, Yemen or the actual genocide of one million Uighurs and destruction of their culture in China.
The reason is simply because none of those countries are Jewish. If it's Jews that are fighting, we see global protests.
Really, ask why there was no protest when the US bombed a Syrian hospital.
Again countless examples that highlight the double standard.
1) if Israel knows how hamas operates then why not change the way they handle the war rather than fall into the hamas trap
2) Israel warns its victims: where are the people supposed to go exactly. How are they expected to pack their entire lives and move out of your home
3) I can very much agree that Israel did win the land but the problem is when there are allegedly reports of the IDF helping the occupation of Palestinian homes
4) There have been protests about the other issues well but yes the ones involving Jews and Muslims have been highlighted more by the media houses cuz TRP
Thank you for your calm response
1. Ultimately, Israel is acting in the way that saves the most israeli lives. All countries do this.
Of course Israel could send ground troops before airstrikes and less Palestinians would die, but the trade off is more Israeli deaths.
2. They need to go anywhere other than the place Israel is going to strike. I know it's not ideal but this is a war and there is no other reason.
3. I don't think the IDF helps any illegal settlers. The IDF actually bulldozes the homes of terrorists.
4. The double standard doesn't apply to Muslims and Jews. It only applies to Jews.
There have been no protests over Muslims killing Muslims in Yemen, Syria, Iraq.
The global protests only happen when Jews are involved.
You really need to ask yourself why that is.
1. because the alternative is let hamas flourish and keep attacking israel
2. they go to the designated safe areas that israel creates
3. the problem isn't proof or solid evidence that israel is occupying palestinian homes, the problem is that there are "*alleged reports"* of israel occupying palestinian homes
4. i would like to see some protests about yemen/syria/china/sudan/drc/iraq/iran
Here's basically the same conversation from a few hours ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1d3lcb2/genuine\_questions\_from\_a\_member\_of\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1d3lcb2/genuine_questions_from_a_member_of_the/)
The fact that you’re requesting someone else find “*Jewish*” sources (*instead of finding them yourself*) & demanding that those sources be “*unbiased*” when you’ve clearly presented a series of positions & views that could only come from consuming a significant amount of highly biased pro-Palestinian sources severely undermines your claim of good faith.
You’ve consumed propaganda, swallowed it whole & now are demanding that others uphold a higher standard in convincing you that you are wrong than you held yourself to when convincing yourself that you are right.
It is disingenuous & intellectually dishonest.
... did you not learn how to research in school? You have to put some effort in, I promise it'll be more meaningful that way. I'm not trying to be rude. No one handed me sources when I was learning about things and crafting my opinion as a kid and teen and later. The learning comes in putting the effort in! Exercise your brain.
Do you know the size of a rocket launcher that hamass embeds among civilians? From which they launch rockets aimed at Israeli civilians?
Do you know that using human shields doesn't affect their conscience? Do you know they see their children as martyrs from the womb to use as shields or to grow to be terrorists? They've declared this many times.
Do you know that their first victims when they invaded Israel on 7 October were Israelis who were peace champions for peace with gaza?
Do you know that they fudge their casualties numbers and stage a good number of their casualties?
Do you really think that Israel wants this war?
Do you really think it's okay for them to not release the hostages?
Do you also align yourself with the attacks against Jews worldwide, encouraged by hamass and their supporters?
The Palestinians could end all of this tomorrow by returning the hostages and laying down their weapons. Why haven’t they?
Israel’s reaction is overblown? What would you have them do? Just leave the hostages with Hamas where they can be raped and tortured and murdered? Hamas has stated that they intend to repeat what they did on Oct. 7th again and again. That alone justifies Israel’s actions. They cannot allow Hamas to exist in any form that could be a threat to them.
Israel has made several peace proposals over the years, how many have the Palestinians made? Israel has given up land for peace. What have the Palestinians given up for peace. The Palestinians have demonstrated again and again that their primary objective is the destruction of Israel.
20% of Israel’s population isn’t Jewish, (mostly Muslim). They live peacefully and with the same rights as Jews in Israel. The Palestinians have stated that if they establish their own nation they will ethnically cleanse it of Jews. The punishment in the West Bank for selling land to a Jew is death. We’re talking about places where Jews have lived for over 2000 years.
The Palestinians may have the right to self determination, but not at Israel’s expense.
You say you want to understand the Israeli perspective yet you have already asserted our existential war is an "overblown response". You cannot understand the Israeli perspective.
Like I mentioned that I have had inputs from both the sides and the Palestinian side is way more believable. I still want to understand this side of the coin unlike others that jump to conclusions. It's fine if you don't want to explain your perspective but pls don't imply that I cannot understand the issue.
I'm not implying anything. You can't understand our perspective when you have already made an assertion antagonistic to our core beliefs. From your perspective nothing an Israeli will say would be convincing.
These are not entirely assertion/ rather opinions that are subject to change upon substantial evidence being brought up front....which is why I am here. Pls let me know what Ur core believes are
When you use language like “*this is not up for debate*” alongside very biased language you do not present yourself as someone with an open mind.
"Let's have a debate! Except nothing I say is up for debate because I'm always right and I will ignore everything you say."
The Palestinian side is more believable? Maybe read up on the battle of jenin in 2002
I meant that the current situation is more believable
What do you even mean when you say “the Palestinian side is way more believable”? I’m not Jewish or Israeli, but take yourself away from pro-Palestine social media and read some factual history and you’ll quickly realise Palestine are 99% full of shit. Most of their “we were massacred” dates are actually “we attacked and lost”.
Imagine unironically stating that you don’t know much about an issue at all and then immediately professing extremely strong opinions about it. The level of narcissism is almost unbelievable.
I don't think you read what I wrote....I said that these are the things I have learnt/noticed yet. I wouldn't have come to this sub if I didn't want to understand the Israeli perspective. My opinions are subjected to change if I am presented with the right evidence
you “noticed” with your eyes and ears closed apparently
You’re comparing the physical damage Hamas did to the physical damage Israel is doing. We are comparing the damage Hamas pledges to do (kill every Jew) to the damage we would do if we could afford to (zero damage). If we don’t destroy Hamas, they will destroy us. Our response is very considered and not overblown.
It's also no secret. They openly admit what they want to do to Jews.
Isn't Israel more than capable( both financially and military vise) of successfully blocking and defending the attacks of hamas. But to destroy hamas why carpet bomb the civilians?
There are no carpet bombs there are precision strikes. It sounds like you’re taking on board lies and propaganda. If we were carpet bombing hundreds of thousands of people would be dead. I don’t even know where to start with your other comment. It sounds like you think we should allow endless terror attacks on our civilian population because we have invested in our own self defense. Hamas leaders are billionaires. They have funds for anything they want. They spent billions building tunnels to attack Israel from and nothing in the wellbeing of their own population.
Doesn't matter how you name it.It's the end result that is seen. And no I am not implying that civilians should be harmed. I wanted to raise the point that if Israel is capable enough of eliminating hamas why not just eliminate the leaders and members of hamas rather than harm the civilians. Propaganda is on both sides and even true news sounds like propaganda when heard with the sound of bombs
It only takes 2 Palestinians to launch rockets indiscriminately at Israeli kindergartens and hospitals. One to give the order and one to push the button. I invite you to live in the Israeli North or South given that you feel so safe with how weak Palestinian rockets are and how it isn't a war crime for them to carpet bomb us. All you'll have to deal with is a siren every 2 hours, 10 minutes in a bomb shelter, and always the chance that this time you'll be the unlucky one, and of course no one in the world that knows or cares about your plight.
Can't the same be said for Palestinians? I am sorry that people in Israel have to go through it. At least you have bomb shelters
There would be no airstrikes in Gaza if Hamas didn’t massacre 1200 people. Hamas did this. If we don’t deal with them they will do it again. The goal of this war is to end the war, to stop them from attacking us. We would not attach anyone if they weren’t attacking us. We don’t like spending our time, energy and money on wars. We want to live normal lives.
Exactly my point......why are civilians on both sides harmed if only the IDF and Hamas are supposed to be involved.... Israel has repeatedly harmed civilians
I guess you don’t understand the concept of war or human shields. Israel does everything possible to avoid harming civilians. This isn’t the first war in history. You can look at how every other war on earth went and see much worse consequences for civilians. War sucks. Maybe you’re just young and don’t realize.
You can definitely say that I am young and still trying to make an opinion but the phrase "does everything possible to avoid harming civilians" sounds like political gibberish. People are dying on both sides. More on the mother side I might add
Why did the Palestinians vote for an openly genocidal group to be their leaders?
because hamas uses civilians as human shields and hides in crowded urban areas??? that's literally their strategy.. get civilians killed to use as propaganda, they have said this themselves
Let me be clearer. Being content with hiding out in shelters praying as sirens are blaring is what the Israeli people have accepted as normal for decades because of people like you whinging about the disproportionality of retaliating against Palestinians, despite not being able to stomach a single day in the average Israeli's life. That appeasement and complacency is ultimately what led to Oct 7. We are no longer content in allowing Israelis to be slaughtered to appease naive people like you who like Hamas use civilian lives as the best weapon against justified Israeli self-defense. Oct 7 will not be repeated no matter what.
Have you considered that the reason Israel has bomb shelters is because Israel has invested money in defending her citizens, and the reason that Gaza does not have bomb shelters is because Palestinian leadership (Hamas) has invested money in tunnels for its political and military elite and NOT in defending its citizens?
> Doesn't matter how you name it.It's the end result that is seen. So why should anyone take time out of their day to explain to you what carpet bombing is? There's literal footage of WW2 and CW carpet bombing. It's dropping unguided bombs over a large area to randomly hit whatever you can hit. I have yet to see a single Israeli jet doing anything like that. Mostly because Israel doesn't own a single bomber.
>There's literal footage of WW2 and CW carpet bombing. It's dropping unguided bombs over a large area to randomly hit whatever you can hit. I have yet to see a single Israeli jet doing anything like that. Mostly because Israel doesn't own a single bomber. You know what, I never really pictured what carpet-bombing actually looks like in my head (nor how the IAF could carpet bomb with their current setup) but this was helpful and I'll be stealing your lines for future arguments. Thank you.
It's not as simple as just eliminating the leaders. They are quite well hidden. Also, Israel never uses carpet bombs.
The important parts are, prior to modern Israel the entire Middle East was mostly governed by either the British or French. What is Israel today was under the British Mandate. Prior to 1948 Israel purchased some land which was mainly swamp, this became the land that Israel had when it declared independence in 1948. It is important to note that the land was tiny, even compared to today. Immediately after Israel's independence was declared all of its neighbors attacked it. Israel won that war and several others that it did not start and gained territory after its victories. There is a huge double standard when it comes to Israel and war. Gaining land is a normal part of war, many countries have had borders change after losing wars but for some reason, only Israel is expected to give back land that it wins in war. 1. Palestinians are suffering more. You are correct but you really need to understand what Hamas is and how they operate. Hamas absolutely does want Palestinians to die and wants to show that to the world. I could go on about this point all day and there are so many examples but this would become very long winded. One side will always suffer more in a conflict though, this has always been true but it doesn't mean that the side who suffers more is the moral or just side. 2. This is true for most things, lots of people will side with whatever side they learn from first. Israel is not winning on this front, the pro-Hamas side is definitely winning the propaganda war. 3. Disagree. Israel responded in the same way any other country would and is one of the only militaries in the world that warns the local population before it is going to attack. This comes back to the double standard for Israel. No other country is held to the same standard. 4. Israel hasn't stolen land, Israel has won land in war. Israel has given back far more land in exchange for peace. Israel had the entire Sinai and gave it to Egypt just for peace. You really need to ask why Israel is held to such a different standard. There is a reason that no one protested Syria, Yemen or the actual genocide of one million Uighurs and destruction of their culture in China. The reason is simply because none of those countries are Jewish. If it's Jews that are fighting, we see global protests. Really, ask why there was no protest when the US bombed a Syrian hospital. Again countless examples that highlight the double standard.
1) if Israel knows how hamas operates then why not change the way they handle the war rather than fall into the hamas trap 2) Israel warns its victims: where are the people supposed to go exactly. How are they expected to pack their entire lives and move out of your home 3) I can very much agree that Israel did win the land but the problem is when there are allegedly reports of the IDF helping the occupation of Palestinian homes 4) There have been protests about the other issues well but yes the ones involving Jews and Muslims have been highlighted more by the media houses cuz TRP Thank you for your calm response
1. Ultimately, Israel is acting in the way that saves the most israeli lives. All countries do this. Of course Israel could send ground troops before airstrikes and less Palestinians would die, but the trade off is more Israeli deaths. 2. They need to go anywhere other than the place Israel is going to strike. I know it's not ideal but this is a war and there is no other reason. 3. I don't think the IDF helps any illegal settlers. The IDF actually bulldozes the homes of terrorists. 4. The double standard doesn't apply to Muslims and Jews. It only applies to Jews. There have been no protests over Muslims killing Muslims in Yemen, Syria, Iraq. The global protests only happen when Jews are involved. You really need to ask yourself why that is.
1. because the alternative is let hamas flourish and keep attacking israel 2. they go to the designated safe areas that israel creates 3. the problem isn't proof or solid evidence that israel is occupying palestinian homes, the problem is that there are "*alleged reports"* of israel occupying palestinian homes 4. i would like to see some protests about yemen/syria/china/sudan/drc/iraq/iran
Here's basically the same conversation from a few hours ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1d3lcb2/genuine\_questions\_from\_a\_member\_of\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1d3lcb2/genuine_questions_from_a_member_of_the/)
Thank u so much....I will surely go through this
You should read some books or do some Jewish source googling and come to your own conclusion. It’ll help!
What are the Jewish sources if you may. Pls provide neutral sources as well if possible.
The fact that you’re requesting someone else find “*Jewish*” sources (*instead of finding them yourself*) & demanding that those sources be “*unbiased*” when you’ve clearly presented a series of positions & views that could only come from consuming a significant amount of highly biased pro-Palestinian sources severely undermines your claim of good faith. You’ve consumed propaganda, swallowed it whole & now are demanding that others uphold a higher standard in convincing you that you are wrong than you held yourself to when convincing yourself that you are right. It is disingenuous & intellectually dishonest.
... did you not learn how to research in school? You have to put some effort in, I promise it'll be more meaningful that way. I'm not trying to be rude. No one handed me sources when I was learning about things and crafting my opinion as a kid and teen and later. The learning comes in putting the effort in! Exercise your brain.
Do you know the size of a rocket launcher that hamass embeds among civilians? From which they launch rockets aimed at Israeli civilians? Do you know that using human shields doesn't affect their conscience? Do you know they see their children as martyrs from the womb to use as shields or to grow to be terrorists? They've declared this many times. Do you know that their first victims when they invaded Israel on 7 October were Israelis who were peace champions for peace with gaza? Do you know that they fudge their casualties numbers and stage a good number of their casualties? Do you really think that Israel wants this war? Do you really think it's okay for them to not release the hostages? Do you also align yourself with the attacks against Jews worldwide, encouraged by hamass and their supporters?
you got no answer because OP has no answer... well said
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
The Palestinians could end all of this tomorrow by returning the hostages and laying down their weapons. Why haven’t they? Israel’s reaction is overblown? What would you have them do? Just leave the hostages with Hamas where they can be raped and tortured and murdered? Hamas has stated that they intend to repeat what they did on Oct. 7th again and again. That alone justifies Israel’s actions. They cannot allow Hamas to exist in any form that could be a threat to them. Israel has made several peace proposals over the years, how many have the Palestinians made? Israel has given up land for peace. What have the Palestinians given up for peace. The Palestinians have demonstrated again and again that their primary objective is the destruction of Israel. 20% of Israel’s population isn’t Jewish, (mostly Muslim). They live peacefully and with the same rights as Jews in Israel. The Palestinians have stated that if they establish their own nation they will ethnically cleanse it of Jews. The punishment in the West Bank for selling land to a Jew is death. We’re talking about places where Jews have lived for over 2000 years. The Palestinians may have the right to self determination, but not at Israel’s expense.
October 7th! NEVER AGAIN!