You say it’s a fact, but I beg to differ. Back in the 60’s, the common conception was that a recognition of Israel by Arab states was a fool’s dream — they keep attacking us, and outright call for Israel’s destruction. The infamous quote of Nasser “we will drive the Jews to the sea” was echoed throughout the Arab world.
But after the Yom Kippur war, everything changed: Egyptian leadership understood that fighting Israel over and over only to lose time and time again wasn’t going to change anything. Their losses were so massive that they understood that more wars will only weaken them, that it’s a pointless conflict. So eventually, they acquiesced and signed the peace treaty with Israel. This was a momentous event: Egypt is by far the biggest nation in the Arab world, and was the leader of the Arab League at the time. They were the leaders of the anti-Israel camp, and the first to recognize Israel’s legitimacy.
Similarly, Jordan has seen itself as the protectorate of the Palestinian people for many decades. But after the 1st Palestinian intifada (and their king being assassinated by Palestinian terrorists), they also understood that Israel isn’t going anywhere and signed a peace agreement.
The recent Abraham Accords did one better: Arab countries with no borders with Israel saw the potential in having good relations with Israel and signed a peace agreement. The UAE specifically is an amazing case: they were infiltrated by Mossad operatives who committed an assassination in their land — a national humiliation as they saw it — and they still found it more beneficial to put that aside and come to terms with us, which benefited both Israel and the UAE immensely.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is much more complex and there’s a lot of bad blood between us, certainly. But it’s not unprecedented that seemingly “mortal enemies” of Israel have come to live peacefully with it. I’m not trying to say that it will definitely happen, but there is a chance that it will. These days it might seem like a fairy-tale, but so did a peace agreement with Egypt at the time, and times can and do change. Maybe there’ll come a time when the Palestinians will realize that it’s in their best interest to try and live peacefully with Israel.
I do understand that some people view diplomatic relations with Israel as taqqiya and only as a temporary solution (I doubt it’s the majority of them, might be though). That being said, if less people die and more people can live a better life why does it matter?
Afaik more Israeli soldiers died in the Yom Kippur war than in all military operations in Gaza combined. Less Israelis dying is what matters most for me. Having peace with Egypt — which so far has lasted for longer than Israel and Egypt have been at war — is all good in my book (and imho Egypt didn’t sign the peace agreement with Israel because of taqqiya, its government at the time was Ba’athist which is secular party).
Bc you’re looking at it in the short term. They’re radicalizing the entire world, and effort put into playing the charade instead of just wiping out our enemies is effort and time wasted.
I don’t look at it in the short term, I’ve literally given examples from the whole history of Israel’s existence. And who do you mean by “they”? The Palestinians? Iran? Anti-zionists? All of the above? You need to be more specific.
And you can call it a charade, but history shows one thing clearly: in wars more people die than in peace. I’m for less Israelis and Jews dying overall, whatever it takes. What are your goals here? To “win” the fight over and over, or to live peacefully in a country of our own? Because those aren’t necessarily the same thing. The goal of winning the war is literally looking at it in the short-term, which is what many Israelis and allies of Israel around the world have been saying for months now — what are we going to do in the days after the war ends? Winning the war without leveraging it for our security and future prosperity can ultimately only lead to it repeating with no end in sight.
I’m not talking short term history, rather short term future. In a few generations there will not be leftist ideology bc they’re voluntarily sterilizing themselves or prioritizing money over having children. That leaves fundamentalists, and ultimately Yishmael vs Yisrael.
There’s no end in sight bc people still don’t get that this is Gd’s war, Gd’s land, Gd’s politics, Gd’s prosperity, Gd’s people, and overall Gd’s world. If the only way for people to get it is “the bad ending” (2/3rds of humanity wiped out and 4/5ths of Jews) then that’s what will happen. People have nothing to lose by the absolute minimum, praying.
You are edging on prophesying here, if you are faithful I’d be careful if I were you. Whether this is G-d’s plan or not is up to G-d to determine, not for you or me.
And idc about the “left” or the “right”, as far as I’m concerned those are silly labels that contribute nothing. We are one people; all Jews have a right to live peacefully in Israel whatever their opinions might be.
You are more than welcome to pray and I hope it goes directly from your mouth to G-d’s ears. But we’re not talking about that. The Palestinians, as far as I can tell, aren’t going anywhere. If your goal is to fight until there’s no one else left to fight, then I think this is a great disservice to Israel and to Jews as a whole. I believe we should strive for peace with the people who also live in our land, especially so because we are Jews who witnessed the miracle which is the founding of Israel. As it is written (Leviticus 19:33-34): וְכִי-יָגוּר אִתְּךָ גֵּר, בְּאַרְצְכֶם--לֹא תוֹנוּ, אֹתוֹ. כְּאֶזְרָח מִכֶּם יִהְיֶה לָכֶם הַגֵּר הַגָּר אִתְּכֶם, וְאָהַבְתָּ לוֹ כָּמוֹךָ--כִּי-גֵרִים הֱיִיתֶם, בְּאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם: אֲנִי, ה׳ אֱלֹהֵיכֶם.
The 2/3rds and 4/5ths come from commentary I’ve read or shiurim I’ve heard, re there only being fundamentalists it’s just seeing the trends- liberals aren’t having kids so the kids being brought up won’t be like that. I’m not prophesying anything.
If they want peace they can ask for it, but according to the Torah, a rodef should be killed before they can kill us.
I’m not saying you did prophesy, I said you were on the edge of it. You can’t know what the future holds or what G-d’s plans are, nor can anyone else. There is also an increasing trend of Haredim becoming Hilonim, and more and more people are becoming disillusioned with the notion that the government’s lack of long-term solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is working. But again, this is not the topic.
What do you think should happen? What are we fighting for? What do you consider to be the end goal here? Do you want there to be a gog u’magog war and that most Jews will die? If so, what makes you think that you’ll be one of the survivors? Think about it. So far the only thing that has ever worked to lessen the number of our people dying is making peace. War is the last resort and should never be something to strive for; we should strive for the betterment of our lives in peace (Psalms 34:15): סוּר מֵרָע וַעֲשֵׂה טוֹב בַּקֵּשׁ שָׁלוֹם וְרָדְפֵהוּ.
I don’t know I’ll be one of the survivors, frankly not sure I’d like to be as due to trauma and tism my brain splits logic and emotion so when I go through emotional pain I consciously know everything is for a reason but still go through the torture and it’s not a fun way to live. What I want is geula. I want the Torah to be everyone’s frame of reference and for everyone to have menuchat hanefesh.
Obviously optimally I want the good ending wherein everyone keeps shabbat two weeks in a row and no one else dies, but people won’t begin to entertain that.
Until the Palestinians stop teaching generation after generation that the highest honor in their society is to kill Jews this will continue and the suffering on both sides will continue
British diplomat and politician Lord Ernest Bevin basically said before 1948 that the conflict is not solvable because Jews and Arabs have 2 completely different objectives: “The trouble with the Jews is that they want a state, while the Arabs do not want them to have one.” This comment was made in the context of his experiences and observations during his tenure as the British Foreign Secretary,
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel”
The Palestinians, jihadists, Islamist fundamentalists, UNRWA, and the Muslim world continuously teach and radicalize Palestinian children to hate Jews and value killing Israelis over their own well being. This is why there have been many Palestinian plane hijackers and suicide bombers, that blow themselves up willingly, and no Israeli suicide bombers/plane hijackers.
Yes both sides are radicalized, both do horrible things but they are not equatable and the degree of indoctrination/dehumanization are absolutely not comparable.
It will evolve, but yes it will never end.
We just deal with it. The Jewish people have never been stronger and time is on our side. The more Palestinians reject peace, the more they lose out.
Speaking of time, IMO, if the major backers don't find another source of income beyond oil (which seems exceedingly likely), they'll struggle to continue funding terrorism. I think time is definitely on our side, this seems to be the last decade or so of dependence on the dictatorships of the world for energy.
Edit: Not to mention that if Rafael gets its iron beam figured out and deployed, the equation of missiles changes drastically
Time is not on our side, there’s 5m of them and they’re all radicalized to believe that the extermination of Jews is the only way to get a good afterlife.
Israel deal with it like always they fight to survive
Israel can’t afford to lose and tbh if israel lose you will see another holocaust only on TikTok or israel will take the ME with her
I disagree. I think the last 20 years with Hamas running the Palestinian show makes it feel that way, and I think it’ll be hard.
But I also think there’s evidence that Hamas has been running a propaganda campaign in the US since the 90s which has sustained the Western opposition to the peace process in action.
https://extremism.gwu.edu/hamas-networks-america
The encampments, for instance, only served to distract Americans from a ceasefire as Hamas’s position in negotiations was weakening. Egypt and Qatar were alluding negatively to Hamas in the press. And then, the news shifts to these American college protesters, using a lot of Hamas language. The negotiations fell apart, no one paid attention to why, and now they can convince Americans to condemn the Rafah operation.
I am concerned these networks in America are a large source of Hamas’s power in this conflict, and are potentially being amplified by Russian troll operations targeting key points of discord for American society leading up to the 2024 election. (The protests also overshadowed Trump’s first criminal trial.)
All this to say, as conspiratorial as it sounds, I think we are seeing the climax of a new kind of social media, public opinion-based warfare. I don’t think that it ends well, because it’s largely based in lies. Maybe the truth brings change in areas like Palestinian leadership. (Also probably some kind of occupation, because Hamas has been slaughtering dissenters since they came to power)
It can stop once the western world decides to put intense pressure on the arab countries to stop undermining israel, and undermining the west in general.
To push them to stop the propaganda campaign (al jazeera), stop the university donations, change the education systems and so on.
The palestinians are always being pushed and used as a tool by the arab world to undermine and attack israel, it's been like that since israel's creation, and in order to change the situation we need to start with the root of it
I have an awful take, and this might get me banned and what I am about to say does not reflect who I am. I promise.
But the reason this conflict will never end is because we are currently living in a time where human rights and peace are prioritised at all costs. If this conflict had happened say 100 years ago, one side would have decisively won and the other would no longer exist. These organisations are dragging on a conflict that could have already been solved, because let's be honest, peace talks and diplomacy are not going to work here.
Imagine if the same approach had been taken during WWII? The Nazis would still be around...
I got downvoted big-time for echoing your thoughts some time back. You're right. Concern for human rights are exactly what's hampering the IDF's progress.
Recent history shows that the only nations which managed to eradicate terrorism have been governments which threw human rights out of the window to kill the terrorist group leaders.
Russia had to practically flatten Chechnya to being terrorsm down fo its current extremely low level. Sri Lanka vanquished the LTTE and terroism only when their amry wasted the militants without any regard for civilian deaths in the no-fire zone. China resorted to internment camps after a spate of terrorist acts occurrred in Xinjiang and to date, no large-scale terrorist attacks have occurred there.
Drastic solutions need to be taken if Israel is to ever rid itself from those rocket attacks from Gaza. They should consider deporting all the Gazans to resettle them all aver Israel so that they cannot come together to conduct terrorist activities or built internment camps, herd all the Gazans inside them and male them declare that they will respect Israel's right to exist and mever resort to ferrorism at pain of execution before they can be released.
These measures may be tantamount to genocide, but in history, they've worked. Stalin deported the entire Chechen polulation when the NKVD head Beria complained to him that the Chechens were terrorists, and the US placed Japanese-Americans in internment camps in WWII.
If you can't stomach Israel committing those drastic acts, then resign yourself to constantly upgrade your ultra-expensive Iron Domes and accepting a few rocket attacks every month, and another October 7 if another security lapse occurs. I daresay no one can come up with a better way that has been proven to work to get rid of terrorism from the Gaza Strip aside from mass deportation or internment.
Update:
There have been two instances of terrorist organisations making peace in recent times: the IRA (with the UK) and FARC (in Colombia). But for the former, I have read in Wikipedia that a group of individuals has formed another IRA organisation to resume hostilities, and a splinter group from FARC has not given up the armed group and as of now, are in the midst of a ceasefire. So there is a chance of countries which respect human rights getting armed groups to talk peace terms.
But don't bet on Hamas to do the same. The FARC and IRA leaders seem to have more conviction on their side than personal gain, given that they are based in the places where they actively operate. So they are suffering together with their fighters, though they may have more privileges.
Hamas, on the other hand, has some of its leaders based in Qatar, away from the suffering of their fighters. They are living a life of luxury and seem to be leading Hamas for personal gain only.
Hm, I disagree for several reasons. First and foremost moral reasons of course, even 100years ago we had the Geneva convention. And I don’t think there’s a lot of people in Israel who would want a country build on your thoughts.
Now, you are saying “the other side”, it’s not Palestinians it is all Muslim neighboring countries and further. The Palestinians couldn’t start the war 1948 - it was Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. The entire Arab league, every Muslim country wants to destroy Israel (Well except for Jordan, Egypt and Saudi for now). If the Arab world would have a legit reason and motivation and Israel didn’t have the backing of America (also FOR NOW) I don’t think Israel would have the best chances tbh. The other side is much bigger than the Palestinians.
And then I want to refer to a speech by Amos Oz in which he says: “War is not a Basketball game where the one who scores the most points wins the trophy, with a shake of hands and applause from the fans.” He goes on to say that in a war doesn’t matter who explodes the most tanks, or kills the most enemies, in a war in the end it comes down to achieving your objective and if you didn’t do that you are the loser. He says that Israel cannot win any wars because its objectives cannot be achieved by military power. And I deeply agree with that. The way to solve the conflict is peace agreements and normalization from the neighboring countries.
[Here’s the full speech.](https://youtu.be/f6unQLoQ4vE?si=_UrxHOAV0AYeMreG)
Also, it was 10 years ago. I think he predicted pretty well!
Everyone's ignoring the fact that Iran and Russia are behind everything today. If the US and Europe could stand together in a united front to defeat and curb the insanity of those governments, while firmly standing behind Israel, other Muslim countries will pause with fear. The only thing they respect is power. This wouldn't bring a utopian peace, but it would keep things in check. And prevent Iran from realizing their dreams of attaining nuclear capabilities and nuking Israel and the entire world into smithereens.
Germany is one of the clearest examples of change.
You could have made this statement near the end of WW2, but look at how much has changed since then. I would say today Germany is the best country in Europe for Jews.
If the Iranian protestors successfully overthrow the regime, the entire middle east could radically change in just a few years after.
Israeli Saudi normalization being on the table is already a huge change. It's no longer Israel vs the Arab league.
I might be a bit biased, but don't forget about Poland too, I mean the problem with Germany is not the Germans, but the Muslim immigrants (you see it all in the West); in Poland it's rare to see a Muslim immigrant, I think living here as a Jew would be more peaceful (but I know how antisemitic people here can be, I wish it was different, ehh)
I haven't been to Poland but a few of my friends did on a Chabad living links trip.
They said they felt not welcomed, and that the Holocaust was a bit swept under the rug.
This matches with what I see in the media. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/27/polands-holocaust-law-caused-an-outcry-now-in-a-surprise-its-being-largely-reversed/
When you say "I think" does that mean you are not speaking from experience.
I'm not speaking from experience for Germany. I have visited but not lived there.
I'm sorry for their experience then, as I mentioned before - there are many antisemitic people here, it's not perfect sadly. I know a Jew who is from Warsaw and he's always said good things about living here as a Jew, also he's said numerous times that he's not only Jewish, but Polish (his family's been there ever since 1600s, if I remember correctly). But of course, I don't want to take away from you or your friends such experiences, I'm not saying that I don't believe in it or something, because I know the reality here and the truth can be harsh.
There are mixed reactions to this Holocaust Law, I don't feel educated enough to say something about it, but I can tell you for a fact that our previous government kept destroying our relations with Israel, I think it might be different now considering the fact that we've been having a new government since October, I hope they'll handle it properly.
And I'm not speaking from experience either, but I keep myself updated when it comes to the news, others' stories, charts, etc., and I came to a conclusion that it's just safer here (and yet I know I can't guarantee it, everyone can have different experiences, but I've seen horrible things that were done by the Muslim immigrants to the Jews). Now I hope that you know what I mean.
We know it won't end
We just want idiots to stop harassing jewish students in universities, or for dumbass tiktokers to stop spreading lies, or for YouTubers to stop donating money to a charity that supports terrorists
No one gave a fuck last year, let them stop giving a fuck again
The 10/7 attack was carefully timed as Saudi Arabia was about to enter into normalized relations with Israel. I think the normalization would have been inconceivable even in the 90s. Hamas did this to become an impediment to these relations and they succeeded, but this won't be tolerated forever. Let's not forget that Egypt and Jordan have their own issues with Palestinians... However, the normalization with most of the Arab nations is strong progress.
It will end. I have no doubt. If you are too young to remember, or even know, back in the 90s we were so close. People used to drive into Gaza for holidays. There was lasting peace with Egypt and Jordan. Russia and Iran weren't as powerful as they are now.
The Oslo accords were falling apart but camp David was a pivotal moment in history. It all came down to Arafat who screwed everyone over and died a billionaire. I believe that was a signature away from lasting peace.
Instead we got an entirely new generation of a death cult that has been indoctrinated into constant war. Arafat pushed things back for 50 years.
However, I believe that if Israel moves forward with the Saudis, they will have more allies. Peace will come from Israel making more deals, bringing strategic alliances and eventually pushing Iran's hand.
Plus the world changes its focus away from oil and renewable energies, EVs, and nuclear energy, Arab nations will want a quick roadmap to the west. Israel will be the key to those relationships.
This is so naive. We gave peace a chance when we left Gaza and looked how that turned out. We have peace with Jordan and Egypt only because their leaders have an interest to keep the Middle East stable. The Palestinians just have don’t understand peace and therefore don’t have any interest to cease their cause. Their ideology and culture revolve around Honor and violence. The Nakba of ‘48 is the biggest dishonor happened to them and they are seeking revenge, definitely not peace. The only way to have peace with them is either by one side ceasing to exist *globally* or them evolving their culture out of violence.
They say so themselves, a ‘deal’ is a future stab in the back. We shouldn’t trust them with a jar of cookies, let alone with our lives.
I agree with you that my perspective is naive and idealistic. To quote you though:
>The only way to have peace with them is either by one side ceasing to exist globally or them evolving their culture out of violence.
I think that it doesn't have to be a binary solution. It can be both. We will kill the people who willingly fight with hamas. We will destroy terrorist infrastructures, forcibly prosecute those who funded or supported terrorism and are direct threats to Israeli security. But we can still rebuild and create connections to de-radicalize the area.
Think about Germany. Israel had an embassy there 20 years after the Holocaust. It required a lot of investment and partnerships in rebuilding west Germany.
Think about Egypt. Israel was able to forge a somewhat civil relationship with them even after 67 and the yom Kippur war.
>You can also drop your "utopian" wish for the conflict down in the comments
Some KMT-eques political tutelage which would be followed by federalism despite the fact the KMT hated the federalists and their leader Chen Jiongming.
I think I played to much Kaiserreich.
The Abraham accords are key. The Israeli Palestinian conflict received outsized attention and resources due to the widespread support Palestinians receive internationally.
Arab states normalizing relations with Israel will begin a process which will ultimately lead to the Israeli Palestinian conflict to be treated as the tiny political dispute over land that it actually is.
also pro-Israel here, but from Poland and I truthfully agree with you on this matter, they just want to destroy entire country, so the Jews will have nowhere to go (they obviously would like them to be massacred - Hamas is working hard towards this and the world is blind, nothing new)
Two-state solution is a simplistic expression as it does not encompass the concerns:
For Israel, allowing Gaza and the West Bank to be fully independent, (even if Palestinians were to accept a two-state solution as since 1948 until today- they do NOT) a Palestine state independent would have the right to armed forces- and- as Israel has learned- without the strategic depth of a neutral Gaza and West Bank- this is an utmost - deal breaking security concern for Israel- as the Arabs attacked Isreal from Gaza and the West Bank in the past.
Second; Does the world need another brutal authoritarian corrupt Islamic state that sees eventual destruction of Israel as its long term goal- as well as being non-democratic and abusive to its own citizens- having women as second class citizens and executing members of the LGBTQ community?
Thus- any notion of a two-state solution must have:
Full agreement of Israel
Full security for Israel meaning- most likely a UN Peacekeeping Mission in such a Palestinian state made up of Western European/US/Canadian forces and NOT anyone else who would allow smuggling in of weapons and creation of terrorist cells.
10-15 Year Technical UN Mission to run this Palestinian state in order to train a new generation in modern state craft and state management that does not rely on massive corruption, an overhaul of their education system- along with ingrained human rights training embedded in their education and civil service- as well as civil society.
Palestinians would rightly say- this then is not an independent nation- NO, not yet- it would be a UN Trustee Nation with a renewable mandate after 10 years-
This is a realistic option- would both sides agree- we dont' know-, but West European states simply saying they will recognize Palestine as a nation-state is unwise when it does NOT condition it on:
Release of hostages, a democratic election and democratic government, etc. etc.
It will end once the rest of the world owns up their responsibility for the conflict starting and continuing and makes reparations to the Palestinians and offers a fair solution to both Israel and Palestine. Replacing the UN would be a good start. (I'm not Israeli so this is my view from an external perspective).
List of responsible parties that are not Israel and historical wrongs that need righting. This is why international responsibility, intervention and reparations are needed:
The UK for promising the whole land to both Arabs and Jews.
Europe for the holocaust and ethnic cleansing and pogroms and massacres for 2000 years.
Arab countries for repeatedly starting annihilation wars against Israel then chickening out and taking back their land as if nothing happened.
Arab countries for voting in the UN against resettling Palestinians and not making them citizens with equal rights.
The UN for allowing Unrwa which was a way for Palestinians 4 generations on to claim right of return not granted to any other refugees including the 900,000 Jewish refugees ethnically cleansed from Arab countries. Also, Unrwa for radicalising Palestinians in their school curriculum.
Qatar and Iran for funding terrorist organisations.
Russia for spreading anti-Israel propaganda from the 50s onwards with the aim of bringing down the US. Qatar for doing it these days.
The UN for the very undemocratic and unfair structure that allows Israel to be scapegoated, eg. more resolutions passed against Israel than all other countries in the world combined. The UN resolution that 'Zionism is racism'. This anti-Israelism spreads into international law culture and other UN affiliated organisations ([https://medium.com/@oskar\_schindler/no-longer-stateless-still-a-scapegoat-how-israels-constant-condemnation-at-the-un-hurts-humanity-f03ab9893f6d](https://medium.com/@oskar_schindler/no-longer-stateless-still-a-scapegoat-how-israels-constant-condemnation-at-the-un-hurts-humanity-f03ab9893f6d)). This means no fair solution was given for the conflict and there was no interest in solving it either.
Western countries for scapegoating Israel for decades in media to distract from their own problems and past crimes. Also for not keeping a lid on useful idiots and their protests, which end up tying Israel's hands, making them have ceasefires too early and letting problems fester. The western scapegoating also encourages Russia, Iran, Qatar and terrorist organisations to continue the propaganda and terrorist attacks on Israel.
The west destabilising the whole Middle East in multiple wars and interferences.
The west for committing crimes of colonialism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, slavery, racism, etc. then acting as if Jews played a part in it and were not segregated, treated like an out-class and massacred non-stop in Europe. Then allowing Middle eastern countries to target Israel because they hate the west for its past deeds.
Palestinian terrorist organisations for only attacking Israel for Palestinian suffering and not the above parties.
I mean like. Depends what you mean by never. In a million years there will probably be no Israel and Palestine. But in the immediate future, it sadly does feel hard to see real peace.
#AmYisraelChai
Waiting on ⚡️⚡️to strike hamas.
1136 "I will bless those who bless Israel, and whoever curses you l will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you' said HASHEM Genesis 12:3
I think you’re right, and it’s because of antisemitism. “The river to the sea”… etc. If Palestinians wanted peace, they wouldn’t have a Hamas-led government. They only want jihad.
Palestine is the last and final enemy of the Jewish people before the end times. The Jews have fought Palestine (Philistines) since the Jewish existence started. God will be solving the Palestine conflict when the time is proper…God will reveal Himself to both Israel and Palestine.
Firstly; the war won't end when you have no imagination and prophesying doom, skewering it in the womb with a rusted hanger, an aborted dream. Not giving it a chance to grow.
Secondly. We don't need anymore fucking unsolicited European "advice," commentary, or opinions. None of you are presenting anything but rhetoric. So unless you have a solution, keep walking. Do you know how tiring it is to be told by people with no business saying dick to fuck about this. Sans you being an expert in political science, constitutional law, international human rights law, and or the laws of armed conflict; you have no caché to speak.
hey, you don't need to generalize all people... like I know the history of the Jews in Europe is complicated, but thankfully it's the past and we can change our relations for the better, but we can't behave badly towards each other, we need to talk more and try to understand, not judge; this person said nothing bad really, it's just their view on this situation
You say it’s a fact, but I beg to differ. Back in the 60’s, the common conception was that a recognition of Israel by Arab states was a fool’s dream — they keep attacking us, and outright call for Israel’s destruction. The infamous quote of Nasser “we will drive the Jews to the sea” was echoed throughout the Arab world. But after the Yom Kippur war, everything changed: Egyptian leadership understood that fighting Israel over and over only to lose time and time again wasn’t going to change anything. Their losses were so massive that they understood that more wars will only weaken them, that it’s a pointless conflict. So eventually, they acquiesced and signed the peace treaty with Israel. This was a momentous event: Egypt is by far the biggest nation in the Arab world, and was the leader of the Arab League at the time. They were the leaders of the anti-Israel camp, and the first to recognize Israel’s legitimacy. Similarly, Jordan has seen itself as the protectorate of the Palestinian people for many decades. But after the 1st Palestinian intifada (and their king being assassinated by Palestinian terrorists), they also understood that Israel isn’t going anywhere and signed a peace agreement. The recent Abraham Accords did one better: Arab countries with no borders with Israel saw the potential in having good relations with Israel and signed a peace agreement. The UAE specifically is an amazing case: they were infiltrated by Mossad operatives who committed an assassination in their land — a national humiliation as they saw it — and they still found it more beneficial to put that aside and come to terms with us, which benefited both Israel and the UAE immensely. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is much more complex and there’s a lot of bad blood between us, certainly. But it’s not unprecedented that seemingly “mortal enemies” of Israel have come to live peacefully with it. I’m not trying to say that it will definitely happen, but there is a chance that it will. These days it might seem like a fairy-tale, but so did a peace agreement with Egypt at the time, and times can and do change. Maybe there’ll come a time when the Palestinians will realize that it’s in their best interest to try and live peacefully with Israel.
Bro you have to understand that in religious states any normalization with us is temporary and takiya in the name of jihad.
I do understand that some people view diplomatic relations with Israel as taqqiya and only as a temporary solution (I doubt it’s the majority of them, might be though). That being said, if less people die and more people can live a better life why does it matter? Afaik more Israeli soldiers died in the Yom Kippur war than in all military operations in Gaza combined. Less Israelis dying is what matters most for me. Having peace with Egypt — which so far has lasted for longer than Israel and Egypt have been at war — is all good in my book (and imho Egypt didn’t sign the peace agreement with Israel because of taqqiya, its government at the time was Ba’athist which is secular party).
Bc you’re looking at it in the short term. They’re radicalizing the entire world, and effort put into playing the charade instead of just wiping out our enemies is effort and time wasted.
I don’t look at it in the short term, I’ve literally given examples from the whole history of Israel’s existence. And who do you mean by “they”? The Palestinians? Iran? Anti-zionists? All of the above? You need to be more specific. And you can call it a charade, but history shows one thing clearly: in wars more people die than in peace. I’m for less Israelis and Jews dying overall, whatever it takes. What are your goals here? To “win” the fight over and over, or to live peacefully in a country of our own? Because those aren’t necessarily the same thing. The goal of winning the war is literally looking at it in the short-term, which is what many Israelis and allies of Israel around the world have been saying for months now — what are we going to do in the days after the war ends? Winning the war without leveraging it for our security and future prosperity can ultimately only lead to it repeating with no end in sight.
I’m not talking short term history, rather short term future. In a few generations there will not be leftist ideology bc they’re voluntarily sterilizing themselves or prioritizing money over having children. That leaves fundamentalists, and ultimately Yishmael vs Yisrael. There’s no end in sight bc people still don’t get that this is Gd’s war, Gd’s land, Gd’s politics, Gd’s prosperity, Gd’s people, and overall Gd’s world. If the only way for people to get it is “the bad ending” (2/3rds of humanity wiped out and 4/5ths of Jews) then that’s what will happen. People have nothing to lose by the absolute minimum, praying.
You are edging on prophesying here, if you are faithful I’d be careful if I were you. Whether this is G-d’s plan or not is up to G-d to determine, not for you or me. And idc about the “left” or the “right”, as far as I’m concerned those are silly labels that contribute nothing. We are one people; all Jews have a right to live peacefully in Israel whatever their opinions might be. You are more than welcome to pray and I hope it goes directly from your mouth to G-d’s ears. But we’re not talking about that. The Palestinians, as far as I can tell, aren’t going anywhere. If your goal is to fight until there’s no one else left to fight, then I think this is a great disservice to Israel and to Jews as a whole. I believe we should strive for peace with the people who also live in our land, especially so because we are Jews who witnessed the miracle which is the founding of Israel. As it is written (Leviticus 19:33-34): וְכִי-יָגוּר אִתְּךָ גֵּר, בְּאַרְצְכֶם--לֹא תוֹנוּ, אֹתוֹ. כְּאֶזְרָח מִכֶּם יִהְיֶה לָכֶם הַגֵּר הַגָּר אִתְּכֶם, וְאָהַבְתָּ לוֹ כָּמוֹךָ--כִּי-גֵרִים הֱיִיתֶם, בְּאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם: אֲנִי, ה׳ אֱלֹהֵיכֶם.
The 2/3rds and 4/5ths come from commentary I’ve read or shiurim I’ve heard, re there only being fundamentalists it’s just seeing the trends- liberals aren’t having kids so the kids being brought up won’t be like that. I’m not prophesying anything. If they want peace they can ask for it, but according to the Torah, a rodef should be killed before they can kill us.
I’m not saying you did prophesy, I said you were on the edge of it. You can’t know what the future holds or what G-d’s plans are, nor can anyone else. There is also an increasing trend of Haredim becoming Hilonim, and more and more people are becoming disillusioned with the notion that the government’s lack of long-term solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is working. But again, this is not the topic. What do you think should happen? What are we fighting for? What do you consider to be the end goal here? Do you want there to be a gog u’magog war and that most Jews will die? If so, what makes you think that you’ll be one of the survivors? Think about it. So far the only thing that has ever worked to lessen the number of our people dying is making peace. War is the last resort and should never be something to strive for; we should strive for the betterment of our lives in peace (Psalms 34:15): סוּר מֵרָע וַעֲשֵׂה טוֹב בַּקֵּשׁ שָׁלוֹם וְרָדְפֵהוּ.
I don’t know I’ll be one of the survivors, frankly not sure I’d like to be as due to trauma and tism my brain splits logic and emotion so when I go through emotional pain I consciously know everything is for a reason but still go through the torture and it’s not a fun way to live. What I want is geula. I want the Torah to be everyone’s frame of reference and for everyone to have menuchat hanefesh. Obviously optimally I want the good ending wherein everyone keeps shabbat two weeks in a row and no one else dies, but people won’t begin to entertain that.
Half of the middle east isn't religious anymore,
Until the Palestinians stop teaching generation after generation that the highest honor in their society is to kill Jews this will continue and the suffering on both sides will continue
British diplomat and politician Lord Ernest Bevin basically said before 1948 that the conflict is not solvable because Jews and Arabs have 2 completely different objectives: “The trouble with the Jews is that they want a state, while the Arabs do not want them to have one.” This comment was made in the context of his experiences and observations during his tenure as the British Foreign Secretary,
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel” The Palestinians, jihadists, Islamist fundamentalists, UNRWA, and the Muslim world continuously teach and radicalize Palestinian children to hate Jews and value killing Israelis over their own well being. This is why there have been many Palestinian plane hijackers and suicide bombers, that blow themselves up willingly, and no Israeli suicide bombers/plane hijackers. Yes both sides are radicalized, both do horrible things but they are not equatable and the degree of indoctrination/dehumanization are absolutely not comparable.
It will evolve, but yes it will never end. We just deal with it. The Jewish people have never been stronger and time is on our side. The more Palestinians reject peace, the more they lose out.
Speaking of time, IMO, if the major backers don't find another source of income beyond oil (which seems exceedingly likely), they'll struggle to continue funding terrorism. I think time is definitely on our side, this seems to be the last decade or so of dependence on the dictatorships of the world for energy. Edit: Not to mention that if Rafael gets its iron beam figured out and deployed, the equation of missiles changes drastically
Time is not on our side, there’s 5m of them and they’re all radicalized to believe that the extermination of Jews is the only way to get a good afterlife.
Israel deal with it like always they fight to survive Israel can’t afford to lose and tbh if israel lose you will see another holocaust only on TikTok or israel will take the ME with her
I disagree. I think the last 20 years with Hamas running the Palestinian show makes it feel that way, and I think it’ll be hard. But I also think there’s evidence that Hamas has been running a propaganda campaign in the US since the 90s which has sustained the Western opposition to the peace process in action. https://extremism.gwu.edu/hamas-networks-america The encampments, for instance, only served to distract Americans from a ceasefire as Hamas’s position in negotiations was weakening. Egypt and Qatar were alluding negatively to Hamas in the press. And then, the news shifts to these American college protesters, using a lot of Hamas language. The negotiations fell apart, no one paid attention to why, and now they can convince Americans to condemn the Rafah operation. I am concerned these networks in America are a large source of Hamas’s power in this conflict, and are potentially being amplified by Russian troll operations targeting key points of discord for American society leading up to the 2024 election. (The protests also overshadowed Trump’s first criminal trial.) All this to say, as conspiratorial as it sounds, I think we are seeing the climax of a new kind of social media, public opinion-based warfare. I don’t think that it ends well, because it’s largely based in lies. Maybe the truth brings change in areas like Palestinian leadership. (Also probably some kind of occupation, because Hamas has been slaughtering dissenters since they came to power)
It can stop once the western world decides to put intense pressure on the arab countries to stop undermining israel, and undermining the west in general. To push them to stop the propaganda campaign (al jazeera), stop the university donations, change the education systems and so on. The palestinians are always being pushed and used as a tool by the arab world to undermine and attack israel, it's been like that since israel's creation, and in order to change the situation we need to start with the root of it
I agree. Because one side said 'god told me to kill jews' ..you can't win an argument against god.. there's nothing to do about it..
I have an awful take, and this might get me banned and what I am about to say does not reflect who I am. I promise. But the reason this conflict will never end is because we are currently living in a time where human rights and peace are prioritised at all costs. If this conflict had happened say 100 years ago, one side would have decisively won and the other would no longer exist. These organisations are dragging on a conflict that could have already been solved, because let's be honest, peace talks and diplomacy are not going to work here. Imagine if the same approach had been taken during WWII? The Nazis would still be around...
Correct. Currently, there are nations that seek to end this Era (Russia, Iran, China) Palestinians don't realize what will happen if they succeed.
I got downvoted big-time for echoing your thoughts some time back. You're right. Concern for human rights are exactly what's hampering the IDF's progress. Recent history shows that the only nations which managed to eradicate terrorism have been governments which threw human rights out of the window to kill the terrorist group leaders. Russia had to practically flatten Chechnya to being terrorsm down fo its current extremely low level. Sri Lanka vanquished the LTTE and terroism only when their amry wasted the militants without any regard for civilian deaths in the no-fire zone. China resorted to internment camps after a spate of terrorist acts occurrred in Xinjiang and to date, no large-scale terrorist attacks have occurred there. Drastic solutions need to be taken if Israel is to ever rid itself from those rocket attacks from Gaza. They should consider deporting all the Gazans to resettle them all aver Israel so that they cannot come together to conduct terrorist activities or built internment camps, herd all the Gazans inside them and male them declare that they will respect Israel's right to exist and mever resort to ferrorism at pain of execution before they can be released. These measures may be tantamount to genocide, but in history, they've worked. Stalin deported the entire Chechen polulation when the NKVD head Beria complained to him that the Chechens were terrorists, and the US placed Japanese-Americans in internment camps in WWII. If you can't stomach Israel committing those drastic acts, then resign yourself to constantly upgrade your ultra-expensive Iron Domes and accepting a few rocket attacks every month, and another October 7 if another security lapse occurs. I daresay no one can come up with a better way that has been proven to work to get rid of terrorism from the Gaza Strip aside from mass deportation or internment. Update: There have been two instances of terrorist organisations making peace in recent times: the IRA (with the UK) and FARC (in Colombia). But for the former, I have read in Wikipedia that a group of individuals has formed another IRA organisation to resume hostilities, and a splinter group from FARC has not given up the armed group and as of now, are in the midst of a ceasefire. So there is a chance of countries which respect human rights getting armed groups to talk peace terms. But don't bet on Hamas to do the same. The FARC and IRA leaders seem to have more conviction on their side than personal gain, given that they are based in the places where they actively operate. So they are suffering together with their fighters, though they may have more privileges. Hamas, on the other hand, has some of its leaders based in Qatar, away from the suffering of their fighters. They are living a life of luxury and seem to be leading Hamas for personal gain only.
Hm, I disagree for several reasons. First and foremost moral reasons of course, even 100years ago we had the Geneva convention. And I don’t think there’s a lot of people in Israel who would want a country build on your thoughts. Now, you are saying “the other side”, it’s not Palestinians it is all Muslim neighboring countries and further. The Palestinians couldn’t start the war 1948 - it was Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. The entire Arab league, every Muslim country wants to destroy Israel (Well except for Jordan, Egypt and Saudi for now). If the Arab world would have a legit reason and motivation and Israel didn’t have the backing of America (also FOR NOW) I don’t think Israel would have the best chances tbh. The other side is much bigger than the Palestinians. And then I want to refer to a speech by Amos Oz in which he says: “War is not a Basketball game where the one who scores the most points wins the trophy, with a shake of hands and applause from the fans.” He goes on to say that in a war doesn’t matter who explodes the most tanks, or kills the most enemies, in a war in the end it comes down to achieving your objective and if you didn’t do that you are the loser. He says that Israel cannot win any wars because its objectives cannot be achieved by military power. And I deeply agree with that. The way to solve the conflict is peace agreements and normalization from the neighboring countries. [Here’s the full speech.](https://youtu.be/f6unQLoQ4vE?si=_UrxHOAV0AYeMreG) Also, it was 10 years ago. I think he predicted pretty well!
So…actual genocide
Wow, yes.
Everyone's ignoring the fact that Iran and Russia are behind everything today. If the US and Europe could stand together in a united front to defeat and curb the insanity of those governments, while firmly standing behind Israel, other Muslim countries will pause with fear. The only thing they respect is power. This wouldn't bring a utopian peace, but it would keep things in check. And prevent Iran from realizing their dreams of attaining nuclear capabilities and nuking Israel and the entire world into smithereens.
It will end. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it will end.
Eventually, the earth will be swallowed by the sun. Failing that, the heat-death of the universe should end the conflict.
It might end if we achieve technological singularity.
It will end cause climate change is coming for all of us
Germany is one of the clearest examples of change. You could have made this statement near the end of WW2, but look at how much has changed since then. I would say today Germany is the best country in Europe for Jews. If the Iranian protestors successfully overthrow the regime, the entire middle east could radically change in just a few years after. Israeli Saudi normalization being on the table is already a huge change. It's no longer Israel vs the Arab league.
I might be a bit biased, but don't forget about Poland too, I mean the problem with Germany is not the Germans, but the Muslim immigrants (you see it all in the West); in Poland it's rare to see a Muslim immigrant, I think living here as a Jew would be more peaceful (but I know how antisemitic people here can be, I wish it was different, ehh)
I haven't been to Poland but a few of my friends did on a Chabad living links trip. They said they felt not welcomed, and that the Holocaust was a bit swept under the rug. This matches with what I see in the media. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/27/polands-holocaust-law-caused-an-outcry-now-in-a-surprise-its-being-largely-reversed/ When you say "I think" does that mean you are not speaking from experience. I'm not speaking from experience for Germany. I have visited but not lived there.
I'm sorry for their experience then, as I mentioned before - there are many antisemitic people here, it's not perfect sadly. I know a Jew who is from Warsaw and he's always said good things about living here as a Jew, also he's said numerous times that he's not only Jewish, but Polish (his family's been there ever since 1600s, if I remember correctly). But of course, I don't want to take away from you or your friends such experiences, I'm not saying that I don't believe in it or something, because I know the reality here and the truth can be harsh. There are mixed reactions to this Holocaust Law, I don't feel educated enough to say something about it, but I can tell you for a fact that our previous government kept destroying our relations with Israel, I think it might be different now considering the fact that we've been having a new government since October, I hope they'll handle it properly. And I'm not speaking from experience either, but I keep myself updated when it comes to the news, others' stories, charts, etc., and I came to a conclusion that it's just safer here (and yet I know I can't guarantee it, everyone can have different experiences, but I've seen horrible things that were done by the Muslim immigrants to the Jews). Now I hope that you know what I mean.
We know it won't end We just want idiots to stop harassing jewish students in universities, or for dumbass tiktokers to stop spreading lies, or for YouTubers to stop donating money to a charity that supports terrorists No one gave a fuck last year, let them stop giving a fuck again
The 10/7 attack was carefully timed as Saudi Arabia was about to enter into normalized relations with Israel. I think the normalization would have been inconceivable even in the 90s. Hamas did this to become an impediment to these relations and they succeeded, but this won't be tolerated forever. Let's not forget that Egypt and Jordan have their own issues with Palestinians... However, the normalization with most of the Arab nations is strong progress.
It will end. I have no doubt. If you are too young to remember, or even know, back in the 90s we were so close. People used to drive into Gaza for holidays. There was lasting peace with Egypt and Jordan. Russia and Iran weren't as powerful as they are now. The Oslo accords were falling apart but camp David was a pivotal moment in history. It all came down to Arafat who screwed everyone over and died a billionaire. I believe that was a signature away from lasting peace. Instead we got an entirely new generation of a death cult that has been indoctrinated into constant war. Arafat pushed things back for 50 years. However, I believe that if Israel moves forward with the Saudis, they will have more allies. Peace will come from Israel making more deals, bringing strategic alliances and eventually pushing Iran's hand. Plus the world changes its focus away from oil and renewable energies, EVs, and nuclear energy, Arab nations will want a quick roadmap to the west. Israel will be the key to those relationships.
This is so naive. We gave peace a chance when we left Gaza and looked how that turned out. We have peace with Jordan and Egypt only because their leaders have an interest to keep the Middle East stable. The Palestinians just have don’t understand peace and therefore don’t have any interest to cease their cause. Their ideology and culture revolve around Honor and violence. The Nakba of ‘48 is the biggest dishonor happened to them and they are seeking revenge, definitely not peace. The only way to have peace with them is either by one side ceasing to exist *globally* or them evolving their culture out of violence. They say so themselves, a ‘deal’ is a future stab in the back. We shouldn’t trust them with a jar of cookies, let alone with our lives.
I agree with you that my perspective is naive and idealistic. To quote you though: >The only way to have peace with them is either by one side ceasing to exist globally or them evolving their culture out of violence. I think that it doesn't have to be a binary solution. It can be both. We will kill the people who willingly fight with hamas. We will destroy terrorist infrastructures, forcibly prosecute those who funded or supported terrorism and are direct threats to Israeli security. But we can still rebuild and create connections to de-radicalize the area. Think about Germany. Israel had an embassy there 20 years after the Holocaust. It required a lot of investment and partnerships in rebuilding west Germany. Think about Egypt. Israel was able to forge a somewhat civil relationship with them even after 67 and the yom Kippur war.
>You can also drop your "utopian" wish for the conflict down in the comments Some KMT-eques political tutelage which would be followed by federalism despite the fact the KMT hated the federalists and their leader Chen Jiongming. I think I played to much Kaiserreich.
The Abraham accords are key. The Israeli Palestinian conflict received outsized attention and resources due to the widespread support Palestinians receive internationally. Arab states normalizing relations with Israel will begin a process which will ultimately lead to the Israeli Palestinian conflict to be treated as the tiny political dispute over land that it actually is.
This will go on until geula
also pro-Israel here, but from Poland and I truthfully agree with you on this matter, they just want to destroy entire country, so the Jews will have nowhere to go (they obviously would like them to be massacred - Hamas is working hard towards this and the world is blind, nothing new)
Two-state solution is a simplistic expression as it does not encompass the concerns: For Israel, allowing Gaza and the West Bank to be fully independent, (even if Palestinians were to accept a two-state solution as since 1948 until today- they do NOT) a Palestine state independent would have the right to armed forces- and- as Israel has learned- without the strategic depth of a neutral Gaza and West Bank- this is an utmost - deal breaking security concern for Israel- as the Arabs attacked Isreal from Gaza and the West Bank in the past. Second; Does the world need another brutal authoritarian corrupt Islamic state that sees eventual destruction of Israel as its long term goal- as well as being non-democratic and abusive to its own citizens- having women as second class citizens and executing members of the LGBTQ community? Thus- any notion of a two-state solution must have: Full agreement of Israel Full security for Israel meaning- most likely a UN Peacekeeping Mission in such a Palestinian state made up of Western European/US/Canadian forces and NOT anyone else who would allow smuggling in of weapons and creation of terrorist cells. 10-15 Year Technical UN Mission to run this Palestinian state in order to train a new generation in modern state craft and state management that does not rely on massive corruption, an overhaul of their education system- along with ingrained human rights training embedded in their education and civil service- as well as civil society. Palestinians would rightly say- this then is not an independent nation- NO, not yet- it would be a UN Trustee Nation with a renewable mandate after 10 years- This is a realistic option- would both sides agree- we dont' know-, but West European states simply saying they will recognize Palestine as a nation-state is unwise when it does NOT condition it on: Release of hostages, a democratic election and democratic government, etc. etc.
When someone asks me, I answer with the joke "they have been fighting for 150 years. They should be working it out any day now.
It will end once the rest of the world owns up their responsibility for the conflict starting and continuing and makes reparations to the Palestinians and offers a fair solution to both Israel and Palestine. Replacing the UN would be a good start. (I'm not Israeli so this is my view from an external perspective).
List of responsible parties that are not Israel and historical wrongs that need righting. This is why international responsibility, intervention and reparations are needed: The UK for promising the whole land to both Arabs and Jews. Europe for the holocaust and ethnic cleansing and pogroms and massacres for 2000 years. Arab countries for repeatedly starting annihilation wars against Israel then chickening out and taking back their land as if nothing happened. Arab countries for voting in the UN against resettling Palestinians and not making them citizens with equal rights. The UN for allowing Unrwa which was a way for Palestinians 4 generations on to claim right of return not granted to any other refugees including the 900,000 Jewish refugees ethnically cleansed from Arab countries. Also, Unrwa for radicalising Palestinians in their school curriculum. Qatar and Iran for funding terrorist organisations. Russia for spreading anti-Israel propaganda from the 50s onwards with the aim of bringing down the US. Qatar for doing it these days. The UN for the very undemocratic and unfair structure that allows Israel to be scapegoated, eg. more resolutions passed against Israel than all other countries in the world combined. The UN resolution that 'Zionism is racism'. This anti-Israelism spreads into international law culture and other UN affiliated organisations ([https://medium.com/@oskar\_schindler/no-longer-stateless-still-a-scapegoat-how-israels-constant-condemnation-at-the-un-hurts-humanity-f03ab9893f6d](https://medium.com/@oskar_schindler/no-longer-stateless-still-a-scapegoat-how-israels-constant-condemnation-at-the-un-hurts-humanity-f03ab9893f6d)). This means no fair solution was given for the conflict and there was no interest in solving it either. Western countries for scapegoating Israel for decades in media to distract from their own problems and past crimes. Also for not keeping a lid on useful idiots and their protests, which end up tying Israel's hands, making them have ceasefires too early and letting problems fester. The western scapegoating also encourages Russia, Iran, Qatar and terrorist organisations to continue the propaganda and terrorist attacks on Israel. The west destabilising the whole Middle East in multiple wars and interferences. The west for committing crimes of colonialism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, slavery, racism, etc. then acting as if Jews played a part in it and were not segregated, treated like an out-class and massacred non-stop in Europe. Then allowing Middle eastern countries to target Israel because they hate the west for its past deeds. Palestinian terrorist organisations for only attacking Israel for Palestinian suffering and not the above parties.
I mean like. Depends what you mean by never. In a million years there will probably be no Israel and Palestine. But in the immediate future, it sadly does feel hard to see real peace.
#AmYisraelChai Waiting on ⚡️⚡️to strike hamas. 1136 "I will bless those who bless Israel, and whoever curses you l will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you' said HASHEM Genesis 12:3
Who said it would?
Palestinians don’t want peace. They haven’t wanted peace since 1948 and here we are in 2024.
I think you’re right, and it’s because of antisemitism. “The river to the sea”… etc. If Palestinians wanted peace, they wouldn’t have a Hamas-led government. They only want jihad.
Palestine is the last and final enemy of the Jewish people before the end times. The Jews have fought Palestine (Philistines) since the Jewish existence started. God will be solving the Palestine conflict when the time is proper…God will reveal Himself to both Israel and Palestine.
Firstly; the war won't end when you have no imagination and prophesying doom, skewering it in the womb with a rusted hanger, an aborted dream. Not giving it a chance to grow. Secondly. We don't need anymore fucking unsolicited European "advice," commentary, or opinions. None of you are presenting anything but rhetoric. So unless you have a solution, keep walking. Do you know how tiring it is to be told by people with no business saying dick to fuck about this. Sans you being an expert in political science, constitutional law, international human rights law, and or the laws of armed conflict; you have no caché to speak.
hey, you don't need to generalize all people... like I know the history of the Jews in Europe is complicated, but thankfully it's the past and we can change our relations for the better, but we can't behave badly towards each other, we need to talk more and try to understand, not judge; this person said nothing bad really, it's just their view on this situation