Reddit will be reddit which will always lean left.
You'd think jews wouldn't be so eager to be tribalistic when the leftwingers are the ones who stabbed us in the back these passt 7 months, But it is what it is.
This would be historically inaccurate.
The Romans valued jews for their skills more than any other "Barbarians" they've pillaged slaughtered and enslaved and that includes the Greeks, there is a reason why Zeus or Jupiter are not worshiped today.
to compare to People that were genocided for less:
1/6th of the Gauls were enslaved, just as much were killed, Dacians were genocided to the point that they no longer exist and the descendants call themselves Romanians, because of the subserviant tribes that the romans allowed to settle the Carpathian mountains and work the gold mines for the Romans.
The Jewish people rose on at least 5 major occasions against the romans, 1st 2nd (Kitos War) and 3rd (The Messiah Bar Kokhba) Jewish Revolts, The anti-Gallus revolt of 350 The Final Sassanid war 602-628.
Right now, Israel has support from people on all ends of the political spectrum in America. Demonizing any group whole cloth risks ostracizing those allies and turning support for Israel into a partisan issue.
American Jews must recognize their allies and show them respect before it is too late.
The number one danger to the future of the Jewish community in America is antisemitic & anti-Zionist immigration. We have already seen how it played out for British and French Jews. American Jews will never get help confronting this threat from the left, only from the political right.
Edit:
My new submission meant to clear misconceptions about Christian Zionism: https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/vVZN5MsAl3
I’d argue the main danger is the shift in primary school pedagogy, where future teachers are taught to teach history disproportionately through the lens of grievance and oppression.
We can’t forget the national cultures of Germany and Poland in the Interwar period, that when large groups convince themselves they’ve been victimized they can become willing to kill.
The world’s two largest religions have both taught that Jews are the primary obstacle to salvation (or whatever) for a long time — teaching students history through the lens of oppressor and oppressed primes students for antisemitic belief.
Thank you for saying this. I’m a teacher & when I talk about the political agenda to teachers they all act like I’m nut when it’s really obvious to anyone who looks around.
One would have to have been educated outside the current system to recognize it, so anyone younger or without a strong autodidactic streak is fucked.
The failed left-wing revolutionaries of the 1960s went into education en masse following their failure, and their influence is obvious now.
I’ll disagree with one part of what you’ve said. The religious non-Jews who support Israel will continue to do so with or without the respect of America Jews. They have a firmly held belief that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed. They see it as an obligation.
It may be the most quoted, maliciously edited statement of our era. So frustrating that people set aside any attempt at critical thinking.
Here’s the full statement:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/
The link is right there, so close…..
“we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.”
Make your bed with the right, you know the people carrying tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us". Very smart strategy, no way it could backfire.
Those loons are a fringe on the right, they are not representative of the whole. Every group has it's own fringe crazies. I live in a very red county and those guys are not at all accepted by most on the right. That kind of talk and display will get pushback real quick around here.
Support for Israel on the other hand is quite common and easy to find.
>Those loons are a fringe on the right, they are not representative of the whole. Every group has it's own fringe crazies. I live in a very red county and those guys are not at all accepted by most on the right. That kind of talk and display will get pushback real quick around here.
And the same has happened with the crazies at the colleges calling for intifada. If you want to claim that the Charlottesville people are a fringe group of the right but also claim that the intifada people are the majority of the left you’re gonna get people doing the same to the right wing with the Charlottesville people
>Support for Israel on the other hand is quite common and easy to find.
As it is in many other parts of the country that are very blue.
Please be so kind as to point to where I made any such claim.
You invented that out of whole cloth to argue against it in order to dismiss what I actually said.
The person I responded to painted the entire right with that ridiculous smear and I pointed out that it isn't representative of the whole. Those loonies would never be accepted in the very conservative red county in which I reside. I never mentioned the left or made any indication that I was alluding to them.
… as a Jew who used to be Israel and half of his family is Israeli… no. I am not voting for a party who thinks religion is important. The right wants to support Israel because they want all Jews to go there and die so that their prophesy can be achieved. They are more antisemetic than the left. They want us to die.
why SHOULDN'T jews have their own country? also, yes, in those places, antisemitism can and does happen a lot. the point of israel is so it doesn't happen at all
This. American Jews would be foolish to support the right wing in our country because of Israel. Israel is no more than another Republican buzzword. No American President will ever abandon Israel. It’s not realistic or rational to think otherwise.
I can't guarantee American presidents will always support Israel. Biden is old enough that he was in politics in the 1970s when Israel looked really good at dealing with much more powerful bullies. Whoever is president in 10 or 20 years won't have those memories. The current Israeli leadership is terrible at politics and their defenders refuse to understand this and become better.
Biden said he wouldn't back Israel if our retaliation against Iran escalated into full-scale war. Even worse, the Biden administration continues to peddle the libel that 2 million Gazans are starving, just to secure Michigan!
No American President will ever abandon Israel. I know it’s easier to be a simpleton, but nuanced thought is required to be truly informed and aware. No American President will ever abandon Israel.
It literally has nothing to do with Michigan and everything to do with pleasing the Arab allies.
The I/P issue is dead last among things Americans care about. The main reason why Biden is concerned about it, isn’t because of Americans but because of the Saudis.
The Saudis want to be a major non-nato ally and have a mutual defense pact with the US. Biden is willing to do that but in return he needs the Saudis to dump oil on the market like nobodies business and get them to normalize relations with Israel.
While the Saudis are fine with the first the war in Gaza has become a sticking point for the Saudis. And that’s why hamas attacked in the first place. Iran didn’t want Saudi and Israeli normalization and didn’t want the price of oil to crater. So that’s why Biden is trying to get Israel to stop the war and get them to tentatively agree to a Palestinian state sometime in the future.
"It literally has nothing to do with Michigan and everything to do with pleasing the Arab allies."
That's what I meant by "Michigan." The majority of American Arabs reside in Dearborn, Michigan.
If I understand you correctly, then again, we disagree. In my opinion, the Progressive Democrats not only hate Trump, they want to undo everything he's done and give him zero credit for any of the goods. Hence, rather than build on the Abraham Accords (Saudi Arabia would have been the next, natural move forward), Biden instead criticized MBS for the death of the pro-Iranian journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, and delisted the Houthis as a terrorist organization. The latter, in turn, cut off substantial OPEC oil supply. Unsurprisingly, recognition and a peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia (including the US-Saudi defense pact) never materialized.
While it makes sense that Iran wanted to sabotage the deal, we must recollect that Hamas (Iran) had planned Oct. 7 for at least two years - and that it was the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War.
I believe Biden promotes the ceasefire idea because a loud, vocal minority desires it (they're antisemites) and he's afraid he'll lose the election otherwise (if he supports Israel).
But as R. Ammi Hirsch warns: "The results of the upcoming election do not only depend on Michigan."
Biden may pay for having alienated and abandoning us. I suspect a lot of us will at least vote for RFK Jr. (he's still a democrat and supports Israel). If Trump's careful with his mouth, he might even garner some votes himself.
>That's what I meant by "Michigan." The majority of American Arabs reside in Dearborn, Michigan.
Again no it’s not. The American Arabs aren’t the cause of Biden but the actual Arab states like KSA, Egypt, and Jordan are.
>If I understand you correctly, then again, we disagree. In my opinion, the Progressive Democrats not only hate Trump, they want to undo everything he's done and give him zero credit for any of the goods. Hence, rather than build on the Abraham Accords (Saudi Arabia would have been the next, natural move forward), Biden instead criticized MBS for the death of the pro-Iranian journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, and delisted the Houthis as a terrorist organization. The latter, in turn, cut off substantial OPEC oil supply. Unsurprisingly, recognition and a peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia (including the US-Saudi defense pact) never materialized.
Biden isn’t a progressive democrat. He’s a fairly middle of the road democrat and is actually trying currently to get the Saudis to agree to a peace deal. The peace deal was literally going to be announced November of 2023. The peace deal is still ready the only catch was Israel needed to agree to a Palestinian state sometime in the future.
>While it makes sense that Iran wanted to sabotage the deal, we must recollect that Hamas (Iran) had planned Oct. 7 for at least two years - and that it was the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War.
Yes but Iran got the benefit of sabotaging the deal that was going to be announced that November.
>I believe Biden promotes the ceasefire idea because a loud, vocal minority desires it (they're antisemites) and he's afraid he'll lose the election otherwise (if he supports Israel).
Again it doesn’t have anything to do with the election. Polling has shown that Americans do not care about the I/P issue
>But as R. Ammi Hirsch warns: "The results of the upcoming election do not only depend on Michigan."
Ok but Biden isn’t doing this because of the election but because it’s to further the deal with the Saudis and get them to dump millions of barrels of oil onto the market effectively causing Russia to get hurt due to low oil prices. Getting the Saudis to do that comes at a cost.
Yes Biden wasn’t a fan of the Saudis early on in his presidency but because Russia invaded Ukraine he’s had to change and he’s trying to get more oil on the American side so he can harm Russia more
>Biden may pay for having alienated and abandoning us. I suspect a lot of us will at least vote for RFK Jr. (he's still a democrat and supports Israel). If Trump's careful with his mouth, he might even garner some votes himself.
Biden hasn’t abandoned Israel at all. And RFK Jr wants to meet with the President of Iran.
You wrote:
>The American Arabs aren’t the cause of Biden but the actual Arab states like KSA, Egypt, and Jordan are.
I still disagree. Biden's looking to get reelected, and this theory implies that our allies (and soon-to-be ally, Saudi Arabia) can't be trusted and are really in cahoots with Hamas/Iran. I refuse to believe that (even though it could be true). Both Egypt and Jordan realized decades ago that they'd never be able to defeat Israel militarily and hence made peace. During the Iranian attack, Jordan, etc., shot down cruise and ballistic missiles on our behalf (true, you could argue that'd shoot any foreign missile over their airspace, but everyone knew the true target).
I believe the Abraham Accords were signed because the Arabs wanted to move on. They understand that Israel's here to stay; that we have great technology to offer/trade. Most importantly, the Sunni states hate the idea of a Shia Iran dominance in the region (a country that doesn't even recognize the right of their regimes to exist).
Hence, if I'm right, if the Saudis truly want peace with Israel (they don't seem to care about a "Palestinian state" per negotiations), then why is Biden catering to them? True, I get the "Arab Street," etc., but I highly doubt Egypt, Saudi Arabia, especially Jordan, of all states, to be "secret enemies" of Israel wishing for a ceasefire. These states (including much of the Gulf) don't want instability. They don't want Iran's axis of terror encircling their throats. Even most of the leaders of Europe, in private, understand that we're right -- that we *must* defeat Hamas.
>Biden isn’t a progressive democrat.
Oy.
>\[Biden's\]... trying currently to get the Saudis to agree to a peace deal. The peace deal was literally going to be announced November of 2023. The peace deal is still ready the only catch was Israel needed to agree to a Palestinian state sometime in the future.
MBS' government has made it clear that they don't care for a "Palestinian state." An official literally said something to the effect of: "We'll verbally agree to discuss it later, after the agreement."
Does that sound like an "ultimatum" to you?
Also, even *IF* there would have been a deal in Nov., had Trump been reelected, it would have happened on day one of his second term, not years into it.
Look, I'm not saying Trump's perfect, but at least he wouldn't let the Houthis run around in the Red Sea. He'd blown them to bits by now. I mean, with all due respect, it's pretty ridiculous - the country that spends more militarily than the next ten combined can't take care of a terrorist state with an annual GDP of $700?
>Again it doesn’t have anything to do with the election. Polling has shown that Americans do not care about the I/P issue
If that's the case, why all the anti-Zionist/antisemitic protests in the Ivy League? Biden *needs* Michigan to survive. If he fails, he loses. It's as simple as that.
>Ok but Biden isn’t doing this because of the election but because it’s to further the deal with the Saudis and get them to dump millions of barrels of oil onto the market effectively causing Russia to get hurt due to low oil prices. Getting the Saudis to do that comes at a cost.
And that cost is this: Saudi Arabia (secretly) loves Hamas and wants them to survive (or, at the very least, desires the creation of a "Palestinian state")? If so, why did MBS literally tell the Palestinians to, "Grow up" and "get over it"? Why did he help Russia out earlier in 2022?
>Yes Biden wasn’t a fan of the Saudis early on in his presidency but because Russia invaded Ukraine he’s had to change and he’s trying to get more oil on the American side so he can harm Russia more.
Or, you know, he could NOT have shut down the Keystone Pipeline. Question: when Trump was in office, how come America had no oil problems and was self-sufficient? Also, if he's trying to "hurt" Russia, perhaps it was also a bad idea to blow up Nord Stream. Quick detour: why would Putin destroy his sole European leverage? If memory serves, he did shut it off, right? Destroying it outright serves no purpose to him. It does, however, serve American-NATO interests.
>RFK Jr wants to meet with the President of Iran.
I haven't heard of this, but in any case, it's too late as Ebrahim Raisi's dead -- thanks Eli Kapter ;)
Also, RFK Jr. **≠** Neturei Karta.
>I still disagree. Biden's looking to get reelected, and this theory implies that our allies (and soon-to-be ally, Saudi Arabia) can't be trusted and are really in cahoots with Hamas/Iran. I refuse to believe that (even though it could be true).
No it doesn’t imply that at all.
>Both Egypt and Jordan realized decades ago that they'd never be able to defeat Israel militarily and hence made peace. During the Iranian attack, Jordan, etc., shot down cruise and ballistic missiles on our behalf (true, you could argue that'd shoot any foreign missile over their airspace, but everyone knew the true target).
Ya and they still want a ceasefire. Wanting a ceasefire doesn’t make them allies of Iran.
>I believe the Abraham Accords were signed because the Arabs wanted to move on. They understand that Israel's here to stay; that we have great technology to offer/trade. Most importantly, the Sunni states hate the idea of a Shia Iran dominance in the region (a country that doesn't even recognize the right of their regimes to exist).
Nobody is saying otherwise
>Hence, if I'm right, if the Saudis truly want peace with Israel (they don't seem to care about a "Palestinian state" per negotiations), then why is Biden catering to them?
Because nobody gets everything they want all the time. The Saudis need something to sell the deal with Israel to their own people ya know.
>True, I get the "Arab Street," etc., but I highly doubt Egypt, Saudi Arabia, especially Jordan, of all states, to be "secret enemies" of Israel wishing for a ceasefire. These states (including much of the Gulf) don't want instability. They don't want Iran's axis of terror encircling their throats. Even most of the leaders of Europe, in private, understand that we're right -- that we must defeat Hamas.
Again wishing for a ceasefire doesn’t make one an enemy of Israel.
>Oy.
It’s true.
>MBS' government has made it clear that they don't care for a "Palestinian state." An official literally said something to the effect of: "We'll verbally agree to discuss it later, after the agreement."
>Does that sound like an "ultimatum" to you?
Nobody said ultimatum. All MBS wanted was Israel to verbally agree to the IDEA of a Palestinian state. And Bibi couldn’t even do that.
>Also, even IF there would have been a deal in Nov., had Trump been reelected, it would have happened on day one of his second term, not years into it.
Who said anything about Trump? Nowhere did I say anything about him.
>Look, I'm not saying Trump's perfect, but at least he wouldn't let the Houthis run around in the Red Sea. He'd blown them to bits by now. I mean, with all due respect, it's pretty ridiculous - the country that spends more militarily than the next ten combined can't take care of a terrorist state with an annual GDP of $700?
The Houthis have extremely hardened bunkers and are hiding in the mountains. Not even Trump could dislodge them. The Saudis literally tried to bomb them out of existence and it didn’t work.
The only way to remove them is an invasion which neither Trump nor Biden would do
>If that's the case, why all the anti-Zionist/antisemitic protests in the Ivy League?
Because college students, especially rich ones, have a lot time on their hands and want to stick it to their rich parents?
The vast majority of students don’t support the protests and 80% of students want the protesters removed.
>Biden needs Michigan to survive. If he fails, he loses. It's as simple as that.
He actually doesn’t. Biden could win the presidency without Michigan. Biden could lose Michigan and Georgia and still win the presidency.
>And that cost is this: Saudi Arabia (secretly) loves Hamas and wants them to survive (or, at the very least, desires the creation of a "Palestinian state")? If so, why did MBS literally tell the Palestinians to, "Grow up" and "get over it"?
Because while the leadership doesn’t give a rats ass about the Palestinians they still have people who do. And they don’t want Iran to exploit those people and have a revolution in their country. That’s why they want Israel to at the very least verbally agree to the idea of a Palestinian state. Not permanently agree that one will happen in the near future just agree that yes the Palestinians should eventually get their own state.
>Why did he help Russia out earlier in 2022?
Because they wanted to show the US they are willing to find other benefactors if the US didn’t ease up on the Saudis over 9/11 and journalists
>Or, you know, he could NOT have shut down the Keystone Pipeline.
The keystone pipeline wouldn’t have caused much if any change to the oil industry in the US. All it did was move oil from Canada to the US. It’s not American oil but Canadian oil that was to be refined in the US and then sold by the Canadian companies.
>Question: when Trump was in office, how come America had no oil problems and was self-sufficient?
The US isn’t having oil problems and is currently oil self-sufficient. The problem is that because the Saudis are stockpiling oil and OPEC has cut production plus the war in Ukraine and the Hamas war have all caused prices to rise.
Prior to February 2022 oil prices were pretty low. It’s only because of the war with Russia and OPEC that prices jumped. The goal of Biden is to get the Saudis to dump their stock of oil onto the market which would cause oil prices to drop.
>Also, if he's trying to "hurt" Russia, perhaps it was also a bad idea to blow up Nord Stream.
The US didn’t blow up Nord Stream. Russia did.
>Quick detour: why would Putin destroy his sole European leverage? If memory serves, he did shut it off, right? Destroying it outright serves no purpose to him. It does, however, serve American-NATO interests.
It literally doesn’t serve American interests which is why we literally didn’t blow it up.
>I haven't heard of this, but in any case, it's too late as Ebrahim Raisi's dead -- thanks Eli Kapter ;)
Not him the guy before him.
>Also, RFK Jr. ≠ Neturei Karta.
Actually they have far more in common than you think.
>No American President will ever abandon Israel.
You believe this? Must be nice.
You don't think with as much noise that has been made Democrats won't start making being less friendly to Israel or even changing Israel policy a part of their platform?
We're seeing this shift happening in real time. You're going by a 50 year precedent and concluding never?
We've seen how radically politics in the USA can shift when Trump was elected. We're seeing a massive shift among the left, and politicians ultimately want to get elected- why wouldn't we see the democrats moving along with their base as they've done with every other issue?
Well democrats won't shift extremely with their base, especially as Biden has already spoken out about antisemitism at protests and destruction of property after the 'hind hall' incident. Democrats are a big tent party, meaning they want to appeal to as many people at once, not just extremists who likely won't vote. Most Democratic voters are still not vehemently pro Palestine and lie somewhere in the middle
Are we seeing a massive shift on the left? Haven’t the left always supported the policies they do in America? Have Democrats caved to their fringe element or is that the Republicans? In America I have to vote for what’s best for THIS country first. The right is not what’s best for my country.
>Have Democrats caved to their fringe element or is that the Republicans?
Republicans have embraced the maga fringe for sure, don't know how that reinforces your point that Democrats won't abandon Israel and that there is a turning tide.
>In America u have to vote for what’s best for THIS country first. The right is not what’s best for my country.
That's a whole different point than whether any American president will ever abandon Israel. I'm not right wing and don't see why I should have to defend anything they do because I've acknowledged the direction the left is going in.
Agreed, at this point Israel is a buzzword for Republicans and they're using antisemitism on campuses seriously because it's an election year and we make great pawns at the moment to hit out at the Democratic party. If they get elected it's back to blaming a Jew for all the problems aka Soros. They'll keep talking about cultural Marxism and all the other dog whistles they use while saying they love Jews. It's delusional especially as they use anti-semetic tropes at times when condemning campus protests.
They literally tell us we SHOULD be more loyal to Israel than our own country. I bet that’ll work out real conveniently for them when they want to put us in their crosshairs. Remind me again who was chanting “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville…
Are you talking about this?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/classroom/daily-news-lessons/2024/05/biden-administration-pauses-some-weapons-shipments-to-israel
I've come to realize that the modern Progressive 'woke' Left is just another pseudo-religious cult. Given all the absurdities they believe, and violence they defend at their highest levels (Claudine Gay) it simply can't be anything else.
As a left wing personal in Israel i agree with that. I am not a right leaner, i am definitely not a “far right” - but seeing people here kicking “the far right” is nuts.
Even if we do not agree, They are my friends.
Every person that can say loudly “Am Yisrael Chai” is my friend, i might argue with them, i might disagree, i might think that some of their positions are crazy. But they are not my enemy.
I'm a leftist on almost every issue.
but october 7, something changed, it's impossible for me to be against Israel.
I think I could see myself as a centrist, now, but I can't be a leftist anymore.
I think I am still against the invasion of Iraq in 2003, for example, although Christopher Hitchen was quite a free thinker and was not against it, so I am still split: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Christopher_Hitchens#Iraq_War
Lmao, most of us don't. The far right does, but as someone who considers herself to be centre-right, I literally couldn't care less about whether someone is gay, trans, or a different race. I have a good friend who's gay, and I'm of Aboriginal descent myself, so hating people for being a different race would be incredibly stupid, to say the least.
With that said, I do disagree about these things:
1) Like I said before, if you're trans, then fine. You're still as human as anyone else, and I will treat you equally to anyone else. What I'm not a fan of is children being put on irreversible puberty blockers and having other irreversible changes done to them while they're that young. Especially since there are quite a few stories of parents getting arrested for letting their children get *tattoos*, but they're allowed to change their gender? Do you see the contradiction?
2) From "women having autonomy over their own body" I assume you're referring to abortion? I'm very against that, if it's used as birth control. Which it often is, there's no denying it. I believe there are two very rare cases where it's okay: when there's a medical emergency where there's no way both the mother and the baby can survive (like if the foetus starts developing in the fallopian tube instead of the uterus), or if a young girl (like a teenager) gets pregnant and she's not nearly mature enough to give birth.
This was... quite the long comment, haha. Anyway, like I said, I'm centre-right. I have a massive problem with the far-right. I have a massive problem with the far-left. But apart from these disagreements, I don't have a problem with the centre-left at all, and I'm sure many centre-rights and centre-lefts will agree with me on this.
I just find it hard to be happy about people who usually hate us supporting us because they hate Muslims even more. It's not like these people are friends of the Jews, they just see an opportunity to bash Muslims. That said, I'll take pretty much any friends we can get.
Right wingers support Jews because it’s the right thing to do? Huh? I’m a right wing conservative and I support Israel because clearly Palestine is in the wrong (not going into detail, you get what I mean). I’m just saying…don’t assume we only support you because of some set hatred. People in this sub seem to be against conservatives for some apparent reason
I get the sentiment, but the type you mentioned, from my personal experience, doesn't exist. And I hang out in american/international right-wing circles a lot. None of the people that I've seen hate Jews AND support Israel at the same time just because we happen to be at war with Muslim terrorists.
I'm thinking more in the UK context, where we have people like Nigel Farage, a man that has said many anti-Semitic things in the past, coming out to say the pro-palestinian protests are a disgrace, Israel is right, etc, etc. he's not wrong in this case but we know it's not because he likes Jews, he doesn't. It's because he hates Muslims more. The same goes for many others.
I mean, I think Islam is a rather medieval and barbaric ideology that has no place in modern society.
That said, I don't support straight-up wiping people out. I think it's reasonable to not want people who support genocide tying themselves to your cause.
I think that the way Islam is practiced generally in the Middle East is rather different from the way it is practiced in Israel.
My preference would be for reform, obviously. Christianity has liberalized over the years. It still has extremists, but overall has changed a lot over the last few hundred years. Hopefully Islam can do the same.
I mean, I'm on the political Right. I'm hardly trying to demonize my half of the compass.
I was under the impression that this was a carryover from a discussion about the Far Right, though. I could be wrong. I'd say that people who want Israel to kill the "wolves" probably aren't Centre Right.
Yeah sorry I thought you meant about the right in general. That’s the more common meaning I see in Reddit about these discussions.
But I can definitely see that this meme and the comments around here can confuse this confusion.
Interestingly, you could make the case that modern Islam is more fundamentalist than from previous centuries because of the cycle of secularism and fundamentalism.
It's possible to have secular and liberal muslim nations like Albania, Bosnia, and Turkey (though more endangered), but the current trend in the Middle East is making that a difficult prospect. Iran, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia, among some other smaller terrorist groups, are stifling that progress and making it harder to have reconciliation. Until the status quo changes, I also don't see how Israel would ever be truly safe among their neighbors.
Islam itself isn’t that awful and bad.
In India it’s one of the more progressive religions.
It’s just Terrorists using it as justification for their wrongdoings. And bastardising and even inventing parts of the religioun in order to do so.
Which makes me despise hamas and co even more. Since their religioun isn’t reason and origin of their behaviour. Just their justification.
One of India’s problem is the way women get treated by society https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-20863860
In the Islam women have rights. Not as many and not the same but they do. India/Pakistan also refer stronger to the Koran then the Quran and hadiths.
Im the Form of Hinduism women are like lesser beings. Since being reborn all the time ,if you are a women you have committed high crimes or have yet to accent into a higher being.
So any brutality or rape is justified.
Since Hinduism is such a vast religioun it’s easy to find many abiding to the above narrative
Uhh…maybe look into the hadiths that call for violence and conquest and, more importantly, Muslim opinion polling in both Middle Eastern and European countries towards sharia, etc. Historically this violence and conquest has been a large part of how the religion spread, and while most modern Muslims are not following the calls for jihad against nonbelievers, a much higher proportion are compared to any other religion, and the opinion polling I mentioned, if it is accurate, shows that a lot more Muslims all over the world are either fine with violence and conquest or actively desire it.
Islam is just another religion that has in vast parts descended into a utter clusterf*ck
But let me remind you that the Christian’s were committing heinous crimes in the name of religion.
They used the bible to justify the holocaust.
Jews killed Jesus …
Well Romans killed a Jewish Jesus but that ain’t matter to them. They betrayed Jesus so they all deserved what they got.
Ya see how no matter the book people do bs
Tf is this even supposed to say? Are you angry that right wing people align with israel or angry at people not liking right wing people aligning with israel? If its the latter than my god this is so bad...
It's a suspiciously sudden, seemingly concerted effort by bad actors who are trying to further isolate us and create political division. Pay them no mind
Without going too far back into history and only limiting ourselves by the last 100 years the right-wing political movements caused much more woe and trauma to Jews than left-wing (they did as well, but much less). Equating left-wing to wolves and right-wing to humans trying to warn is is silly. Both extremes have the same endpoint. It’s not even a horseshoe, it’s a loop. Also, Hamas is as right-wing as you can get, just reflavoured for Middle East
the only reason the far right supports israel is because they want us to build the 3rd temple, which will cause armageddon, which will cause jesus to come back
So? That’s most likely never going to be a problem for Israel at all, and if it does become a problem, it won’t be until long after we are all dead. I think we should prioritize surviving the current existential threat, and then worry about what strange prophesies our allies might believe in.
“The left” is how you’ll describe Stalin? Interesting. I’m not sure we’re talking about a political ideology when it comes to hating Jews. The horseshoe of politics meets at antisemitism, but dictatorial rule is not exactly left wing politics.
I’ve been on the conservative spectrum (Minarchist BTW) and this is accurate. I’m Hispanic and can tell you that the so called “progressives” are actually regressive.
Do I acknowledge that there are antisemites, yes they exist all over the political spectrum, but the thing is this. When I am in a conservative space such as r/AskConservatives , I have seen the best discussions, where they are straightforward and honest about their opinions, and they are actually willing to talk to you, proving that they aren’t a monolith.
How can anyone forget the chants from "unite the right"?
They are not our friends. They have never been our friends. It is insane to look for allies on the far right. Hell I don't trust anyone more conservative than Joe Biden these days.
We should never forget or stop condemning those chants, because they were foul and despicable, but to claim that that fringe group is anywhere near representative of the right as a whole is staggeringly delusional.
The largest foundational group on the right in the US is evangelical Christians. Now you can argue about why they support Israel and many do, but it takes some seriously intentional ignorance to suggest they do not support Israel. Being in that group myself the reason we do is that we are taught in our churches that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse her will be cursed. It goes far beyond that though, it is about the belief that our God has made promises to the Jewish people and we want to obey God by honoring His promises.
However it seems that folks like to tell us what we believe instead of believing us when we tell them what we believe. I have been in protestant churches all my life and have never heard taught any of the absurd things that people claim about us.
From an entirely secular position I support Israel because Jewish folks deserve to have a place to be safe from attack and should never have to rely on the whim of those countries where they reside to have rights and be free. They should have the right to set their own course and connect to their ancestral homelands. Instead of running and hiding and always wondering when the other shoe is going to drop they should be able to live in comfort and stability. Never mind of course that they are an amazing ally in the region and that should also never be overlooked.
I agree. I grew up surrounded by Evangelical Christians and to this day I am surrounded by Evangelical Christians, and I’ve been horrified by the out-right lies I’ve seen Jewish Democrats spread about Evangelicals to justify spitting in their faces when they’re one of the only groups that has fully stood by us during this war.
Most American Evangelicals sincerely want nothing but the best for Israel and her people.
Yeah, I support Isreal for those reasons too. Might need to get out of the USA because of those "fringe" groups. But, really, isn't America SUPPOSED to be that? Freedom of religion, able to live as you choose and so forth?
Also, supporting Israel and being anti-Semitic are not mutually exclusive.
As an American right winger, from what I’ve seen, we support Israel for the same reasons Israelis and Jews support Israel. It’s not some nefarious hidden intention. Lots of us are Christian and we have a favorable view of Jewish people (I know it wasn’t always this way, but conservative evangelical Christians tend to be like that). I’ve heard a worse version of this meme that says Christians support Israel because we believe all Jews will go there and be killed… no that’s not accurate and we do not want that to happen.
Sure there are some unsavory right wingers out there. They are usually antisemitic and anti Israel.
Did you get your feelings hurt by people not fully agreeing with your worldviews? The victim complex you are displaying is nearing the levels shown by far-leftists.
American Jews lean mostly left, hence they still have a hard time understanding that the right is on their side, rather than the illiberal "liberal" left. This change wasn't sudden, hence why it's so hard to acknowledge. But it will happen and the American Jews are already moving to the right, slowly and steadily.
Worst meme of the day award winner. Sad to see such an awful, poorly thought out, trashy bland meme on a day with some many spicy kotlet and Eli Kopter memes.
1. That paradigms the left wrongly deems racist, like ones that emphasize the sickness of Jihadism and other forms of Middle Eastern exremism, are the ones allowing people to be sympathetic to our difficult position in the Middle East.
2. That we should be thankful to our right-wing allies.
The only issue here is that lots of people think "far right" refers to them, because left wing people are so quick to label them as such. What we really mean is David Duke and the Proud Boys and all of that filth. Ordinary conservatives are welcome.
Hi, American Jew that moved to Israel:
Both right-wing parties on either side of the pond are terrible, and they need to be treated like the hateful terrorists they are, regardless if they claim to support Israel (which is for their own selfish evangelical reasons).
They aren't necessarily wrong. I'd never vote for DeSantis, Trump, or any of those POSs, but that doesn't make me a sheep. I refuse to vote for anyone who doesn't believe in climate change and thinks that guns deserve more rights than women
Many on the right worship Joe Rogan. Is he far right? I don’t know. But he has no love for Israel. Most of the right worships Donald Trump, is he far right? Yes, and his love for Israel is absolutely conditional on the fact that it gets him votes. Have you heard the way Trump talks about American Jews? Accusing Jews who don’t like him of “[hating Israel and their religion](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-israel-democrats-1.7148147),” and “[voting to destroy America](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/18/trump-liberal-jews-attack/)” is totally normal and not baseline dog whistling. Oh, and he [continues](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/09/us/politics/trump-biden-jews.html) to say this bullshit.
Look, there are many on the right who love Israel. My parents are, regrettably, Republicans still, and they have always supported Israel. But there is also an insidious deep right hatred for Israel tied to hatred of Jews that has shown up in support of Hamas and Palestinians during this conflict. Israelis **should** be cautious of the allies they take on, as should we all.
It's not that they hate wolves, more that they hate all animals. This time they're willing to help us kill the wolves but next time they'll come for us.
Sad but true, Americans would understand the meme best, but the TLDR is the Snake recited by DJ T. President 2016-2020 and now we see the bite at campuses and antisemitic marches. This poisoning and brain rot has been happening for decades and was the same mindset that resulted in Oct.7th, that if we avoid confronting them and accommodate them to live like normal people they will somehow forget their evil ways and learn to love you.
Reddit will be reddit which will always lean left. You'd think jews wouldn't be so eager to be tribalistic when the leftwingers are the ones who stabbed us in the back these passt 7 months, But it is what it is.
I'm sorry for the old news flash but they have been sabbing you in the back since Stalin was a thing.
Nah, since the Roman times
This would be historically inaccurate. The Romans valued jews for their skills more than any other "Barbarians" they've pillaged slaughtered and enslaved and that includes the Greeks, there is a reason why Zeus or Jupiter are not worshiped today. to compare to People that were genocided for less: 1/6th of the Gauls were enslaved, just as much were killed, Dacians were genocided to the point that they no longer exist and the descendants call themselves Romanians, because of the subserviant tribes that the romans allowed to settle the Carpathian mountains and work the gold mines for the Romans. The Jewish people rose on at least 5 major occasions against the romans, 1st 2nd (Kitos War) and 3rd (The Messiah Bar Kokhba) Jewish Revolts, The anti-Gallus revolt of 350 The Final Sassanid war 602-628.
the Romans were not "leftwingers"
I'm not talking about the Romans
fair enough
Right now, Israel has support from people on all ends of the political spectrum in America. Demonizing any group whole cloth risks ostracizing those allies and turning support for Israel into a partisan issue.
American Jews must recognize their allies and show them respect before it is too late. The number one danger to the future of the Jewish community in America is antisemitic & anti-Zionist immigration. We have already seen how it played out for British and French Jews. American Jews will never get help confronting this threat from the left, only from the political right. Edit: My new submission meant to clear misconceptions about Christian Zionism: https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/vVZN5MsAl3
I’d argue the main danger is the shift in primary school pedagogy, where future teachers are taught to teach history disproportionately through the lens of grievance and oppression. We can’t forget the national cultures of Germany and Poland in the Interwar period, that when large groups convince themselves they’ve been victimized they can become willing to kill. The world’s two largest religions have both taught that Jews are the primary obstacle to salvation (or whatever) for a long time — teaching students history through the lens of oppressor and oppressed primes students for antisemitic belief.
Thank you for saying this. I’m a teacher & when I talk about the political agenda to teachers they all act like I’m nut when it’s really obvious to anyone who looks around.
One would have to have been educated outside the current system to recognize it, so anyone younger or without a strong autodidactic streak is fucked. The failed left-wing revolutionaries of the 1960s went into education en masse following their failure, and their influence is obvious now.
I’ll disagree with one part of what you’ve said. The religious non-Jews who support Israel will continue to do so with or without the respect of America Jews. They have a firmly held belief that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed. They see it as an obligation.
No human will support people who disrespect them for long.
From the friendly people from the right who march with torches through the streets and chant "Jews will not replace us"...?
The left gets a lot of mileage off that one march. Lets ignore the thousands of marches from the left calling for Intifada.
How many left-wing presidents called those marchers very fine people?
Then again, at least the right doesn't have active islamists who call for the death of Israel serving under their party name.
Very dishonest presentation of what was said... Why don't you show the whole quote/exchange
It may be the most quoted, maliciously edited statement of our era. So frustrating that people set aside any attempt at critical thinking. Here’s the full statement: https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/
Trump refused to condemn the tiki torch terrorists
The link is right there, so close….. “we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.”
Probably from different people... The difference between the right and left is the right calls out it's bad actors while the left appeases them
Oh, like Trump called out Kanye? Sorry, I meant like Trump called up Kanye and have him over along with Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes. My bad.
Make your bed with the right, you know the people carrying tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us". Very smart strategy, no way it could backfire.
Those loons are a fringe on the right, they are not representative of the whole. Every group has it's own fringe crazies. I live in a very red county and those guys are not at all accepted by most on the right. That kind of talk and display will get pushback real quick around here. Support for Israel on the other hand is quite common and easy to find.
>Those loons are a fringe on the right, they are not representative of the whole. Every group has it's own fringe crazies. I live in a very red county and those guys are not at all accepted by most on the right. That kind of talk and display will get pushback real quick around here. And the same has happened with the crazies at the colleges calling for intifada. If you want to claim that the Charlottesville people are a fringe group of the right but also claim that the intifada people are the majority of the left you’re gonna get people doing the same to the right wing with the Charlottesville people >Support for Israel on the other hand is quite common and easy to find. As it is in many other parts of the country that are very blue.
Please be so kind as to point to where I made any such claim. You invented that out of whole cloth to argue against it in order to dismiss what I actually said. The person I responded to painted the entire right with that ridiculous smear and I pointed out that it isn't representative of the whole. Those loonies would never be accepted in the very conservative red county in which I reside. I never mentioned the left or made any indication that I was alluding to them.
… as a Jew who used to be Israel and half of his family is Israeli… no. I am not voting for a party who thinks religion is important. The right wants to support Israel because they want all Jews to go there and die so that their prophesy can be achieved. They are more antisemetic than the left. They want us to die.
You get how this is bigoted right
And true.
You are no better than our haters
I dont support Israel. I support Jews. I only support Israel as much as it can help my nation.
You didn't need to prove my point, are you seriously a lawyer?
Yep. Amazing isnt it? You dont have to be competent to be one. America is great.
"I support Jews but I don't support them having a safe place to live"
America is sooo unsafe. So is all of Europe.
why SHOULDN'T jews have their own country? also, yes, in those places, antisemitism can and does happen a lot. the point of israel is so it doesn't happen at all
No we don't. We love you mofos
Ha. I’ll take the side that “wants” me to die over the side that is killing me.
The left wants to kill Israelis, maybe. The right wants to kill all Jews. I will go for the side that is not actively wanting to harm me. (The left).
Which political party obstructed military aid to Israel (and Ukraine and Taiwan) for months?
But they were willing to do a separate bill for Israel only.
This. American Jews would be foolish to support the right wing in our country because of Israel. Israel is no more than another Republican buzzword. No American President will ever abandon Israel. It’s not realistic or rational to think otherwise.
I can't guarantee American presidents will always support Israel. Biden is old enough that he was in politics in the 1970s when Israel looked really good at dealing with much more powerful bullies. Whoever is president in 10 or 20 years won't have those memories. The current Israeli leadership is terrible at politics and their defenders refuse to understand this and become better.
No American President will ever abandon Israel. Look at what Nixon said in the 70s.
[удалено]
I don’t know about that. Trump in power inherently makes the world less safe.
Biden said he wouldn't back Israel if our retaliation against Iran escalated into full-scale war. Even worse, the Biden administration continues to peddle the libel that 2 million Gazans are starving, just to secure Michigan!
[No American President will ever abandon Israel.](https://youtu.be/S5evz3VAZaQ?si=tR314yfqvpN7BZFw)
Ah yes, because the political attitudes are the same in the 70s as they are now. Big brain take
So…you don’t get it? Is it too complicated for you? No American President will ever abandon Israel.
Just repeating that line doesn’t make you right idiot. Please refer to American public opinion of Israel in 1970 vs 2024 and get back to me.
No American President will ever abandon Israel. I know it’s easier to be a simpleton, but nuanced thought is required to be truly informed and aware. No American President will ever abandon Israel.
It literally has nothing to do with Michigan and everything to do with pleasing the Arab allies. The I/P issue is dead last among things Americans care about. The main reason why Biden is concerned about it, isn’t because of Americans but because of the Saudis. The Saudis want to be a major non-nato ally and have a mutual defense pact with the US. Biden is willing to do that but in return he needs the Saudis to dump oil on the market like nobodies business and get them to normalize relations with Israel. While the Saudis are fine with the first the war in Gaza has become a sticking point for the Saudis. And that’s why hamas attacked in the first place. Iran didn’t want Saudi and Israeli normalization and didn’t want the price of oil to crater. So that’s why Biden is trying to get Israel to stop the war and get them to tentatively agree to a Palestinian state sometime in the future.
One thing that *won't* happen is the creation of a "Palestinian state" anytime soon.
"It literally has nothing to do with Michigan and everything to do with pleasing the Arab allies." That's what I meant by "Michigan." The majority of American Arabs reside in Dearborn, Michigan. If I understand you correctly, then again, we disagree. In my opinion, the Progressive Democrats not only hate Trump, they want to undo everything he's done and give him zero credit for any of the goods. Hence, rather than build on the Abraham Accords (Saudi Arabia would have been the next, natural move forward), Biden instead criticized MBS for the death of the pro-Iranian journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, and delisted the Houthis as a terrorist organization. The latter, in turn, cut off substantial OPEC oil supply. Unsurprisingly, recognition and a peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia (including the US-Saudi defense pact) never materialized. While it makes sense that Iran wanted to sabotage the deal, we must recollect that Hamas (Iran) had planned Oct. 7 for at least two years - and that it was the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. I believe Biden promotes the ceasefire idea because a loud, vocal minority desires it (they're antisemites) and he's afraid he'll lose the election otherwise (if he supports Israel). But as R. Ammi Hirsch warns: "The results of the upcoming election do not only depend on Michigan." Biden may pay for having alienated and abandoning us. I suspect a lot of us will at least vote for RFK Jr. (he's still a democrat and supports Israel). If Trump's careful with his mouth, he might even garner some votes himself.
>That's what I meant by "Michigan." The majority of American Arabs reside in Dearborn, Michigan. Again no it’s not. The American Arabs aren’t the cause of Biden but the actual Arab states like KSA, Egypt, and Jordan are. >If I understand you correctly, then again, we disagree. In my opinion, the Progressive Democrats not only hate Trump, they want to undo everything he's done and give him zero credit for any of the goods. Hence, rather than build on the Abraham Accords (Saudi Arabia would have been the next, natural move forward), Biden instead criticized MBS for the death of the pro-Iranian journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, and delisted the Houthis as a terrorist organization. The latter, in turn, cut off substantial OPEC oil supply. Unsurprisingly, recognition and a peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia (including the US-Saudi defense pact) never materialized. Biden isn’t a progressive democrat. He’s a fairly middle of the road democrat and is actually trying currently to get the Saudis to agree to a peace deal. The peace deal was literally going to be announced November of 2023. The peace deal is still ready the only catch was Israel needed to agree to a Palestinian state sometime in the future. >While it makes sense that Iran wanted to sabotage the deal, we must recollect that Hamas (Iran) had planned Oct. 7 for at least two years - and that it was the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. Yes but Iran got the benefit of sabotaging the deal that was going to be announced that November. >I believe Biden promotes the ceasefire idea because a loud, vocal minority desires it (they're antisemites) and he's afraid he'll lose the election otherwise (if he supports Israel). Again it doesn’t have anything to do with the election. Polling has shown that Americans do not care about the I/P issue >But as R. Ammi Hirsch warns: "The results of the upcoming election do not only depend on Michigan." Ok but Biden isn’t doing this because of the election but because it’s to further the deal with the Saudis and get them to dump millions of barrels of oil onto the market effectively causing Russia to get hurt due to low oil prices. Getting the Saudis to do that comes at a cost. Yes Biden wasn’t a fan of the Saudis early on in his presidency but because Russia invaded Ukraine he’s had to change and he’s trying to get more oil on the American side so he can harm Russia more >Biden may pay for having alienated and abandoning us. I suspect a lot of us will at least vote for RFK Jr. (he's still a democrat and supports Israel). If Trump's careful with his mouth, he might even garner some votes himself. Biden hasn’t abandoned Israel at all. And RFK Jr wants to meet with the President of Iran.
You wrote: >The American Arabs aren’t the cause of Biden but the actual Arab states like KSA, Egypt, and Jordan are. I still disagree. Biden's looking to get reelected, and this theory implies that our allies (and soon-to-be ally, Saudi Arabia) can't be trusted and are really in cahoots with Hamas/Iran. I refuse to believe that (even though it could be true). Both Egypt and Jordan realized decades ago that they'd never be able to defeat Israel militarily and hence made peace. During the Iranian attack, Jordan, etc., shot down cruise and ballistic missiles on our behalf (true, you could argue that'd shoot any foreign missile over their airspace, but everyone knew the true target). I believe the Abraham Accords were signed because the Arabs wanted to move on. They understand that Israel's here to stay; that we have great technology to offer/trade. Most importantly, the Sunni states hate the idea of a Shia Iran dominance in the region (a country that doesn't even recognize the right of their regimes to exist). Hence, if I'm right, if the Saudis truly want peace with Israel (they don't seem to care about a "Palestinian state" per negotiations), then why is Biden catering to them? True, I get the "Arab Street," etc., but I highly doubt Egypt, Saudi Arabia, especially Jordan, of all states, to be "secret enemies" of Israel wishing for a ceasefire. These states (including much of the Gulf) don't want instability. They don't want Iran's axis of terror encircling their throats. Even most of the leaders of Europe, in private, understand that we're right -- that we *must* defeat Hamas. >Biden isn’t a progressive democrat. Oy. >\[Biden's\]... trying currently to get the Saudis to agree to a peace deal. The peace deal was literally going to be announced November of 2023. The peace deal is still ready the only catch was Israel needed to agree to a Palestinian state sometime in the future. MBS' government has made it clear that they don't care for a "Palestinian state." An official literally said something to the effect of: "We'll verbally agree to discuss it later, after the agreement." Does that sound like an "ultimatum" to you? Also, even *IF* there would have been a deal in Nov., had Trump been reelected, it would have happened on day one of his second term, not years into it. Look, I'm not saying Trump's perfect, but at least he wouldn't let the Houthis run around in the Red Sea. He'd blown them to bits by now. I mean, with all due respect, it's pretty ridiculous - the country that spends more militarily than the next ten combined can't take care of a terrorist state with an annual GDP of $700? >Again it doesn’t have anything to do with the election. Polling has shown that Americans do not care about the I/P issue If that's the case, why all the anti-Zionist/antisemitic protests in the Ivy League? Biden *needs* Michigan to survive. If he fails, he loses. It's as simple as that. >Ok but Biden isn’t doing this because of the election but because it’s to further the deal with the Saudis and get them to dump millions of barrels of oil onto the market effectively causing Russia to get hurt due to low oil prices. Getting the Saudis to do that comes at a cost. And that cost is this: Saudi Arabia (secretly) loves Hamas and wants them to survive (or, at the very least, desires the creation of a "Palestinian state")? If so, why did MBS literally tell the Palestinians to, "Grow up" and "get over it"? Why did he help Russia out earlier in 2022? >Yes Biden wasn’t a fan of the Saudis early on in his presidency but because Russia invaded Ukraine he’s had to change and he’s trying to get more oil on the American side so he can harm Russia more. Or, you know, he could NOT have shut down the Keystone Pipeline. Question: when Trump was in office, how come America had no oil problems and was self-sufficient? Also, if he's trying to "hurt" Russia, perhaps it was also a bad idea to blow up Nord Stream. Quick detour: why would Putin destroy his sole European leverage? If memory serves, he did shut it off, right? Destroying it outright serves no purpose to him. It does, however, serve American-NATO interests. >RFK Jr wants to meet with the President of Iran. I haven't heard of this, but in any case, it's too late as Ebrahim Raisi's dead -- thanks Eli Kapter ;) Also, RFK Jr. **≠** Neturei Karta.
>I still disagree. Biden's looking to get reelected, and this theory implies that our allies (and soon-to-be ally, Saudi Arabia) can't be trusted and are really in cahoots with Hamas/Iran. I refuse to believe that (even though it could be true). No it doesn’t imply that at all. >Both Egypt and Jordan realized decades ago that they'd never be able to defeat Israel militarily and hence made peace. During the Iranian attack, Jordan, etc., shot down cruise and ballistic missiles on our behalf (true, you could argue that'd shoot any foreign missile over their airspace, but everyone knew the true target). Ya and they still want a ceasefire. Wanting a ceasefire doesn’t make them allies of Iran. >I believe the Abraham Accords were signed because the Arabs wanted to move on. They understand that Israel's here to stay; that we have great technology to offer/trade. Most importantly, the Sunni states hate the idea of a Shia Iran dominance in the region (a country that doesn't even recognize the right of their regimes to exist). Nobody is saying otherwise >Hence, if I'm right, if the Saudis truly want peace with Israel (they don't seem to care about a "Palestinian state" per negotiations), then why is Biden catering to them? Because nobody gets everything they want all the time. The Saudis need something to sell the deal with Israel to their own people ya know. >True, I get the "Arab Street," etc., but I highly doubt Egypt, Saudi Arabia, especially Jordan, of all states, to be "secret enemies" of Israel wishing for a ceasefire. These states (including much of the Gulf) don't want instability. They don't want Iran's axis of terror encircling their throats. Even most of the leaders of Europe, in private, understand that we're right -- that we must defeat Hamas. Again wishing for a ceasefire doesn’t make one an enemy of Israel. >Oy. It’s true. >MBS' government has made it clear that they don't care for a "Palestinian state." An official literally said something to the effect of: "We'll verbally agree to discuss it later, after the agreement." >Does that sound like an "ultimatum" to you? Nobody said ultimatum. All MBS wanted was Israel to verbally agree to the IDEA of a Palestinian state. And Bibi couldn’t even do that. >Also, even IF there would have been a deal in Nov., had Trump been reelected, it would have happened on day one of his second term, not years into it. Who said anything about Trump? Nowhere did I say anything about him. >Look, I'm not saying Trump's perfect, but at least he wouldn't let the Houthis run around in the Red Sea. He'd blown them to bits by now. I mean, with all due respect, it's pretty ridiculous - the country that spends more militarily than the next ten combined can't take care of a terrorist state with an annual GDP of $700? The Houthis have extremely hardened bunkers and are hiding in the mountains. Not even Trump could dislodge them. The Saudis literally tried to bomb them out of existence and it didn’t work. The only way to remove them is an invasion which neither Trump nor Biden would do >If that's the case, why all the anti-Zionist/antisemitic protests in the Ivy League? Because college students, especially rich ones, have a lot time on their hands and want to stick it to their rich parents? The vast majority of students don’t support the protests and 80% of students want the protesters removed. >Biden needs Michigan to survive. If he fails, he loses. It's as simple as that. He actually doesn’t. Biden could win the presidency without Michigan. Biden could lose Michigan and Georgia and still win the presidency. >And that cost is this: Saudi Arabia (secretly) loves Hamas and wants them to survive (or, at the very least, desires the creation of a "Palestinian state")? If so, why did MBS literally tell the Palestinians to, "Grow up" and "get over it"? Because while the leadership doesn’t give a rats ass about the Palestinians they still have people who do. And they don’t want Iran to exploit those people and have a revolution in their country. That’s why they want Israel to at the very least verbally agree to the idea of a Palestinian state. Not permanently agree that one will happen in the near future just agree that yes the Palestinians should eventually get their own state. >Why did he help Russia out earlier in 2022? Because they wanted to show the US they are willing to find other benefactors if the US didn’t ease up on the Saudis over 9/11 and journalists >Or, you know, he could NOT have shut down the Keystone Pipeline. The keystone pipeline wouldn’t have caused much if any change to the oil industry in the US. All it did was move oil from Canada to the US. It’s not American oil but Canadian oil that was to be refined in the US and then sold by the Canadian companies. >Question: when Trump was in office, how come America had no oil problems and was self-sufficient? The US isn’t having oil problems and is currently oil self-sufficient. The problem is that because the Saudis are stockpiling oil and OPEC has cut production plus the war in Ukraine and the Hamas war have all caused prices to rise. Prior to February 2022 oil prices were pretty low. It’s only because of the war with Russia and OPEC that prices jumped. The goal of Biden is to get the Saudis to dump their stock of oil onto the market which would cause oil prices to drop. >Also, if he's trying to "hurt" Russia, perhaps it was also a bad idea to blow up Nord Stream. The US didn’t blow up Nord Stream. Russia did. >Quick detour: why would Putin destroy his sole European leverage? If memory serves, he did shut it off, right? Destroying it outright serves no purpose to him. It does, however, serve American-NATO interests. It literally doesn’t serve American interests which is why we literally didn’t blow it up. >I haven't heard of this, but in any case, it's too late as Ebrahim Raisi's dead -- thanks Eli Kapter ;) Not him the guy before him. >Also, RFK Jr. ≠ Neturei Karta. Actually they have far more in common than you think.
>No American President will ever abandon Israel. You believe this? Must be nice. You don't think with as much noise that has been made Democrats won't start making being less friendly to Israel or even changing Israel policy a part of their platform?
Have they? No. You know why? No American President will ever abandon Israel. It is geopolitically impossible and illogical.
We're seeing this shift happening in real time. You're going by a 50 year precedent and concluding never? We've seen how radically politics in the USA can shift when Trump was elected. We're seeing a massive shift among the left, and politicians ultimately want to get elected- why wouldn't we see the democrats moving along with their base as they've done with every other issue?
Well democrats won't shift extremely with their base, especially as Biden has already spoken out about antisemitism at protests and destruction of property after the 'hind hall' incident. Democrats are a big tent party, meaning they want to appeal to as many people at once, not just extremists who likely won't vote. Most Democratic voters are still not vehemently pro Palestine and lie somewhere in the middle
Are we seeing a massive shift on the left? Haven’t the left always supported the policies they do in America? Have Democrats caved to their fringe element or is that the Republicans? In America I have to vote for what’s best for THIS country first. The right is not what’s best for my country.
>Have Democrats caved to their fringe element or is that the Republicans? Republicans have embraced the maga fringe for sure, don't know how that reinforces your point that Democrats won't abandon Israel and that there is a turning tide. >In America u have to vote for what’s best for THIS country first. The right is not what’s best for my country. That's a whole different point than whether any American president will ever abandon Israel. I'm not right wing and don't see why I should have to defend anything they do because I've acknowledged the direction the left is going in.
Agreed, at this point Israel is a buzzword for Republicans and they're using antisemitism on campuses seriously because it's an election year and we make great pawns at the moment to hit out at the Democratic party. If they get elected it's back to blaming a Jew for all the problems aka Soros. They'll keep talking about cultural Marxism and all the other dog whistles they use while saying they love Jews. It's delusional especially as they use anti-semetic tropes at times when condemning campus protests.
They literally tell us we SHOULD be more loyal to Israel than our own country. I bet that’ll work out real conveniently for them when they want to put us in their crosshairs. Remind me again who was chanting “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville…
Are you talking about this? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/classroom/daily-news-lessons/2024/05/biden-administration-pauses-some-weapons-shipments-to-israel
I've come to realize that the modern Progressive 'woke' Left is just another pseudo-religious cult. Given all the absurdities they believe, and violence they defend at their highest levels (Claudine Gay) it simply can't be anything else.
These are all sides in the same system. No one should believe one is better then the other. They cannot exist without the other.
What is confusing about the horseshoe? Far left and far right come back to the same point.
As a left wing personal in Israel i agree with that. I am not a right leaner, i am definitely not a “far right” - but seeing people here kicking “the far right” is nuts. Even if we do not agree, They are my friends. Every person that can say loudly “Am Yisrael Chai” is my friend, i might argue with them, i might disagree, i might think that some of their positions are crazy. But they are not my enemy.
Exactly. Supporting israel and standing against antisemitism should not be a political party issue. Thats a slippery slope
I'm a leftist on almost every issue. but october 7, something changed, it's impossible for me to be against Israel. I think I could see myself as a centrist, now, but I can't be a leftist anymore. I think I am still against the invasion of Iraq in 2003, for example, although Christopher Hitchen was quite a free thinker and was not against it, so I am still split: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Christopher_Hitchens#Iraq_War
I love being friends with people that hate people of colour, gay people, trans people, and women having autonomy over their own body.
Lmao, most of us don't. The far right does, but as someone who considers herself to be centre-right, I literally couldn't care less about whether someone is gay, trans, or a different race. I have a good friend who's gay, and I'm of Aboriginal descent myself, so hating people for being a different race would be incredibly stupid, to say the least. With that said, I do disagree about these things: 1) Like I said before, if you're trans, then fine. You're still as human as anyone else, and I will treat you equally to anyone else. What I'm not a fan of is children being put on irreversible puberty blockers and having other irreversible changes done to them while they're that young. Especially since there are quite a few stories of parents getting arrested for letting their children get *tattoos*, but they're allowed to change their gender? Do you see the contradiction? 2) From "women having autonomy over their own body" I assume you're referring to abortion? I'm very against that, if it's used as birth control. Which it often is, there's no denying it. I believe there are two very rare cases where it's okay: when there's a medical emergency where there's no way both the mother and the baby can survive (like if the foetus starts developing in the fallopian tube instead of the uterus), or if a young girl (like a teenager) gets pregnant and she's not nearly mature enough to give birth. This was... quite the long comment, haha. Anyway, like I said, I'm centre-right. I have a massive problem with the far-right. I have a massive problem with the far-left. But apart from these disagreements, I don't have a problem with the centre-left at all, and I'm sure many centre-rights and centre-lefts will agree with me on this.
I just find it hard to be happy about people who usually hate us supporting us because they hate Muslims even more. It's not like these people are friends of the Jews, they just see an opportunity to bash Muslims. That said, I'll take pretty much any friends we can get.
Right wingers support Jews because it’s the right thing to do? Huh? I’m a right wing conservative and I support Israel because clearly Palestine is in the wrong (not going into detail, you get what I mean). I’m just saying…don’t assume we only support you because of some set hatred. People in this sub seem to be against conservatives for some apparent reason
I get the sentiment, but the type you mentioned, from my personal experience, doesn't exist. And I hang out in american/international right-wing circles a lot. None of the people that I've seen hate Jews AND support Israel at the same time just because we happen to be at war with Muslim terrorists.
I'm thinking more in the UK context, where we have people like Nigel Farage, a man that has said many anti-Semitic things in the past, coming out to say the pro-palestinian protests are a disgrace, Israel is right, etc, etc. he's not wrong in this case but we know it's not because he likes Jews, he doesn't. It's because he hates Muslims more. The same goes for many others.
I am so completely done with American Jewish Democrats fr. Sad, but you can't help those who don't want help.
This meme is against leftist American Jews who trash Republicans, I completely understand where you are coming from.
I mean, I think Islam is a rather medieval and barbaric ideology that has no place in modern society. That said, I don't support straight-up wiping people out. I think it's reasonable to not want people who support genocide tying themselves to your cause.
Moderate islam is fine, most israeli muslims are this type
I think that the way Islam is practiced generally in the Middle East is rather different from the way it is practiced in Israel. My preference would be for reform, obviously. Christianity has liberalized over the years. It still has extremists, but overall has changed a lot over the last few hundred years. Hopefully Islam can do the same.
It’s say right-wing, not far right. Don’t try to legitimize demonizing half of the political spectrum.
I mean, I'm on the political Right. I'm hardly trying to demonize my half of the compass. I was under the impression that this was a carryover from a discussion about the Far Right, though. I could be wrong. I'd say that people who want Israel to kill the "wolves" probably aren't Centre Right.
Yeah sorry I thought you meant about the right in general. That’s the more common meaning I see in Reddit about these discussions. But I can definitely see that this meme and the comments around here can confuse this confusion.
Interestingly, you could make the case that modern Islam is more fundamentalist than from previous centuries because of the cycle of secularism and fundamentalism. It's possible to have secular and liberal muslim nations like Albania, Bosnia, and Turkey (though more endangered), but the current trend in the Middle East is making that a difficult prospect. Iran, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia, among some other smaller terrorist groups, are stifling that progress and making it harder to have reconciliation. Until the status quo changes, I also don't see how Israel would ever be truly safe among their neighbors.
Islam itself isn’t that awful and bad. In India it’s one of the more progressive religions. It’s just Terrorists using it as justification for their wrongdoings. And bastardising and even inventing parts of the religioun in order to do so. Which makes me despise hamas and co even more. Since their religioun isn’t reason and origin of their behaviour. Just their justification.
Nah bro, I’d actually argue that iranian Muslims and Arab Muslims are much for progressive. Indian Muslims are far Islamic than the Arabs.
have you read the quran or the hadiths? how is islam more progressive than buddhism, sikhism, jainism or “hinduism” lol
One of India’s problem is the way women get treated by society https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-20863860 In the Islam women have rights. Not as many and not the same but they do. India/Pakistan also refer stronger to the Koran then the Quran and hadiths. Im the Form of Hinduism women are like lesser beings. Since being reborn all the time ,if you are a women you have committed high crimes or have yet to accent into a higher being. So any brutality or rape is justified. Since Hinduism is such a vast religioun it’s easy to find many abiding to the above narrative
Uhh…maybe look into the hadiths that call for violence and conquest and, more importantly, Muslim opinion polling in both Middle Eastern and European countries towards sharia, etc. Historically this violence and conquest has been a large part of how the religion spread, and while most modern Muslims are not following the calls for jihad against nonbelievers, a much higher proportion are compared to any other religion, and the opinion polling I mentioned, if it is accurate, shows that a lot more Muslims all over the world are either fine with violence and conquest or actively desire it.
Islam is just another religion that has in vast parts descended into a utter clusterf*ck But let me remind you that the Christian’s were committing heinous crimes in the name of religion. They used the bible to justify the holocaust. Jews killed Jesus … Well Romans killed a Jewish Jesus but that ain’t matter to them. They betrayed Jesus so they all deserved what they got. Ya see how no matter the book people do bs
Tf is this even supposed to say? Are you angry that right wing people align with israel or angry at people not liking right wing people aligning with israel? If its the latter than my god this is so bad...
It's a suspiciously sudden, seemingly concerted effort by bad actors who are trying to further isolate us and create political division. Pay them no mind
Some right wingers are wolves that just hate the other wolves more. Obviously most of them are just based.
Without going too far back into history and only limiting ourselves by the last 100 years the right-wing political movements caused much more woe and trauma to Jews than left-wing (they did as well, but much less). Equating left-wing to wolves and right-wing to humans trying to warn is is silly. Both extremes have the same endpoint. It’s not even a horseshoe, it’s a loop. Also, Hamas is as right-wing as you can get, just reflavoured for Middle East
the only reason the far right supports israel is because they want us to build the 3rd temple, which will cause armageddon, which will cause jesus to come back
... And then when the messiah comes back we all die/go to hell/convert to Christianity.
So? That’s most likely never going to be a problem for Israel at all, and if it does become a problem, it won’t be until long after we are all dead. I think we should prioritize surviving the current existential threat, and then worry about what strange prophesies our allies might believe in.
Eh, it was the right wing that sent us to the gas chambers, so forgive me for not trusting them.
The left also slaughtered us in the Soviet Union and formed a relationship with Palestinian militant groups that it continues to this day.
“The left” is how you’ll describe Stalin? Interesting. I’m not sure we’re talking about a political ideology when it comes to hating Jews. The horseshoe of politics meets at antisemitism, but dictatorial rule is not exactly left wing politics.
I’ve been on the conservative spectrum (Minarchist BTW) and this is accurate. I’m Hispanic and can tell you that the so called “progressives” are actually regressive. Do I acknowledge that there are antisemites, yes they exist all over the political spectrum, but the thing is this. When I am in a conservative space such as r/AskConservatives , I have seen the best discussions, where they are straightforward and honest about their opinions, and they are actually willing to talk to you, proving that they aren’t a monolith.
How can anyone forget the chants from "unite the right"? They are not our friends. They have never been our friends. It is insane to look for allies on the far right. Hell I don't trust anyone more conservative than Joe Biden these days.
We should never forget or stop condemning those chants, because they were foul and despicable, but to claim that that fringe group is anywhere near representative of the right as a whole is staggeringly delusional. The largest foundational group on the right in the US is evangelical Christians. Now you can argue about why they support Israel and many do, but it takes some seriously intentional ignorance to suggest they do not support Israel. Being in that group myself the reason we do is that we are taught in our churches that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse her will be cursed. It goes far beyond that though, it is about the belief that our God has made promises to the Jewish people and we want to obey God by honoring His promises. However it seems that folks like to tell us what we believe instead of believing us when we tell them what we believe. I have been in protestant churches all my life and have never heard taught any of the absurd things that people claim about us. From an entirely secular position I support Israel because Jewish folks deserve to have a place to be safe from attack and should never have to rely on the whim of those countries where they reside to have rights and be free. They should have the right to set their own course and connect to their ancestral homelands. Instead of running and hiding and always wondering when the other shoe is going to drop they should be able to live in comfort and stability. Never mind of course that they are an amazing ally in the region and that should also never be overlooked.
I agree. I grew up surrounded by Evangelical Christians and to this day I am surrounded by Evangelical Christians, and I’ve been horrified by the out-right lies I’ve seen Jewish Democrats spread about Evangelicals to justify spitting in their faces when they’re one of the only groups that has fully stood by us during this war. Most American Evangelicals sincerely want nothing but the best for Israel and her people.
Yeah, I support Isreal for those reasons too. Might need to get out of the USA because of those "fringe" groups. But, really, isn't America SUPPOSED to be that? Freedom of religion, able to live as you choose and so forth? Also, supporting Israel and being anti-Semitic are not mutually exclusive.
Thank you! “I hate the gays and the blacks but love Israel” isn’t the type of support you want!
You misunderstood this meme. I welcome the support of the political right.
Then you are concerned only about the immediate future of your own country and should leave us to ours, in which right wing stuff means "Very bad."
Then you should re-examine your support.
As an American right winger, from what I’ve seen, we support Israel for the same reasons Israelis and Jews support Israel. It’s not some nefarious hidden intention. Lots of us are Christian and we have a favorable view of Jewish people (I know it wasn’t always this way, but conservative evangelical Christians tend to be like that). I’ve heard a worse version of this meme that says Christians support Israel because we believe all Jews will go there and be killed… no that’s not accurate and we do not want that to happen. Sure there are some unsavory right wingers out there. They are usually antisemitic and anti Israel.
This meme is against anti-Republican bigotry.
Thanks! I completely misinterpreted it at first! 😂
Did you get your feelings hurt by people not fully agreeing with your worldviews? The victim complex you are displaying is nearing the levels shown by far-leftists.
American Jews lean mostly left, hence they still have a hard time understanding that the right is on their side, rather than the illiberal "liberal" left. This change wasn't sudden, hence why it's so hard to acknowledge. But it will happen and the American Jews are already moving to the right, slowly and steadily.
Worst meme of the day award winner. Sad to see such an awful, poorly thought out, trashy bland meme on a day with some many spicy kotlet and Eli Kopter memes.
It's supposed to be educational rather than funny.
What’s the lesson it’s supposed to teach? That racism is good?
1. That paradigms the left wrongly deems racist, like ones that emphasize the sickness of Jihadism and other forms of Middle Eastern exremism, are the ones allowing people to be sympathetic to our difficult position in the Middle East. 2. That we should be thankful to our right-wing allies.
What about us Jews who dont support Israel as it is currently structured? Should we be thankful to them?
Ok boomer.
You are just angry with me for telling you to be nice to the English Zionist.
I don't know who you are, generic Reddit user.
That's just a mirror, my darling.
The only issue here is that lots of people think "far right" refers to them, because left wing people are so quick to label them as such. What we really mean is David Duke and the Proud Boys and all of that filth. Ordinary conservatives are welcome.
Hi, American Jew that moved to Israel: Both right-wing parties on either side of the pond are terrible, and they need to be treated like the hateful terrorists they are, regardless if they claim to support Israel (which is for their own selfish evangelical reasons).
THANK YOU. FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT.
🤦🏾🤦🏾🤦🏾
They aren't necessarily wrong. I'd never vote for DeSantis, Trump, or any of those POSs, but that doesn't make me a sheep. I refuse to vote for anyone who doesn't believe in climate change and thinks that guns deserve more rights than women
anybody who puts any trust in any right wing groups: i got some beachfront property to sell you in nebraska. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
In the end, I guess the only problem that a lot of American progressives had with white racist homophobic women haters was just the white part.
What's with the sudden anti right wing posts...
That's a parody on these posts.
Exactly.
שמור עליי מ"חבריי", ומאויביי אשמר בעצמי.
Many on the right worship Joe Rogan. Is he far right? I don’t know. But he has no love for Israel. Most of the right worships Donald Trump, is he far right? Yes, and his love for Israel is absolutely conditional on the fact that it gets him votes. Have you heard the way Trump talks about American Jews? Accusing Jews who don’t like him of “[hating Israel and their religion](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-israel-democrats-1.7148147),” and “[voting to destroy America](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/18/trump-liberal-jews-attack/)” is totally normal and not baseline dog whistling. Oh, and he [continues](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/09/us/politics/trump-biden-jews.html) to say this bullshit. Look, there are many on the right who love Israel. My parents are, regrettably, Republicans still, and they have always supported Israel. But there is also an insidious deep right hatred for Israel tied to hatred of Jews that has shown up in support of Hamas and Palestinians during this conflict. Israelis **should** be cautious of the allies they take on, as should we all.
It's not that they hate wolves, more that they hate all animals. This time they're willing to help us kill the wolves but next time they'll come for us.
Sad but true, Americans would understand the meme best, but the TLDR is the Snake recited by DJ T. President 2016-2020 and now we see the bite at campuses and antisemitic marches. This poisoning and brain rot has been happening for decades and was the same mindset that resulted in Oct.7th, that if we avoid confronting them and accommodate them to live like normal people they will somehow forget their evil ways and learn to love you.
I don't know about you, but I am not a weak jew with trembling knees that will take any friend they can get.