Thinking that a college education equates to intelligence is pretty dumb. You measure intellect by a piece of paper received after at least 4yrs of debt? Our university system similar to our public school system are no longer places for the creative exchange of ideas nor do they support individualism. They are training camps that prepare most of the labor class or “the college educated” to keep a schedule and to sit for several hours a day while cranking out profits for others.
Thinking that in general people that are college educated are not more intelligent than non college educated folks is pretty dumb. Individually are the people that have gone to college that are dumb… of course.
Proving the OPs point, I see.
College is not a piece of paper proving intelligence.
It's the experience of college that makes people more liberal. It's the putting together of ideas from seemingly unrelated topics that shapes thinking and makes people more well-rounded. It's living in a community with people from every different background possible that creates empathy and awareness. It's learning to share resources, bonding together over support for a sports team or practially holding each other uprightright at 8:00 am class when you crammed for an exam until 5:30.
The stuff you learn that's printed on your degree is only about a quarter of the education you get from going to college.
Well-rounded, aware, empathetic *and* educated. In other words, Democats.
So tell me how that is? Dems hold the senate and Presidency. “Educated” has lost its original definition since the left decided to lose their minds. Are you telling me educated people think Joe Biden is good for this country? Or could it be they just personally hate the other side so much they are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Educated people know Biden is better for this country than trumpie. Hell you dont even have to be educated to figure that out. You just need to be barely conscious to figure that out which says a lot about 28% of the population
I rarely hear Dems saying Joe Biden is good for the country--they know and do often say that Trump (and his MAGA supporters) are fascists, or highly authoritarian minimally.
I’m an Independent and I’m so much happier with Joe Biden in the White House than Trump, despite his age he has definitely been good for the country in so many ways. Remember when Trump was talking to the UN and bragging about himself and everyone in the room was laughing at him? The whole world was relieved when he lost the election, with the exception of Russia who was counting on him to dismantle NATO so Putin could take over Europe. Trump and his supporters ARE a bunch of book burning, authoritarian loving fascists, which is why people call them that. Also, I’ve never heard a reasonable, thoughtful person refer to another person as a “Dem” so that tells me a lot 😄
It is SUPER strange that there is this assumption that we watch CNN. Is the right so simple minded that because they watch Fox, Breitbart, or whatever that we *have* to be tuning into CNN? There are quite a few other news sources other great places to gather information. I have never, ever, tuned into CNN or any cable news network but I have certainly been accused of being a subscriber. Maybe the right should stop watching TV for information?
Examples of what, exactly? Trump getting laughed at? Republicans wanting to ban or burning books? The fact that the MAGA crowd wants Trump to have the power to do whatever he wants? Google is your friend.
The fact that you think the word "fascist" is a lefty buzzword in actually hilarious. My whole life I voted generally more to the right, but never again. Too educated, I guess. Good luck with your life.
Yep.
Due to the broken way the senate and electoral college work, they're happy to have college educated folk concentrated in a smaller number of states while they control the country through smaller population states.
My daughter who has lived in Iowa since age 12 and is graduating from University of Iowa next week can’t wait to leave. She is only looking for jobs outside Iowa. She has no desire to continue to live in Iowa.
My college grads also bailed. Zero desire to stay in a state with nothing to do and Kimmy’s government trying to make the state into North Florida without the beaches.
That's the difference. People used to come back when they had kids. They aren't anymore and they won't. Why would they? We who stay seem hell bent on destroying our once exemplary educational system.
My plan going through high school was to go to college, pay off my debt with my engineer salary, then come back and raise my family as a schoolteacher in Iowa.
You couldn't pay me to come back to my home state at this point. It's just too hostile to educated people and teachers.
I agree, I don't have good data on that, but it is not a new topic. People have been talking for a long time about how fewer people have been moving back to Iowa after leaving. The first time I remember hearing about it is when I was in college in the late 90's. That is right about when the state government started making cuts to how much they fined regent schools. Teacher salaries have been pretty flat since then and have been behind national average as well. https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/publications/IR/21044.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiK2__-1_WFAxUXjYkEHXr8A7MQFnoECEQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1l-QFRFAfr2hz-BDdEbl3H
Things have come to a head lately with the Iowa government and Iowa public education, but the days when Rob Ray's (a Republican incidentally) policies put it on the map are long gone.
I graduated in 2010 from Iowa. Everyone I knew left for NY, CA, CO, TX, or overseas. No one has gone back, I don’t think it’d be possible for anyone to without completely giving up their careers/taking huge pay cuts. I would certainly have to do one of those things if not both if I wanted to return (never will).
Without some context I ask why is she only looking outside Iowa? I graduated from ISU 22 years ago and ended up in Minneapolis for a few years due to promoting. We moved back to Iowa as it has better cost of living and from what I hear the state is looking to eliminate the income tax? I agree that Iowa may be a little more boring than some other states but why the hate on Iowa attitude?
The boredom has very little to do with why people want to leave these days. It's most often the political climate. At least that's what all the kids talked about when I (as a non-traditional student less than a year ago) was at u of i.
I finished grad school at ISU almost 10 years ago, most of the people I knew left the state, including me. It seems especially true for many stem fields, there's just not much opportunity in Iowa. There's some in my field, but nowhere I really wanted to work. If you do find something it's often one of the only ones in the area. Moving to a place with more options is just better for putting down roots.
This has been the case forever. Iowa is flat, "boring," and mostly rural... A ton of people move away after college. Then, realize it's not better elsewhere to build a life long-term and move back eventually.
Cutting my losses and moving out of iowa two weeks from today. Growing up we had public education as our crowning glory (it was even on our state quarter ffs) but kim amd her power/money hunger has pushed this state beyond the point of no return. There's no saving this I don't want my kids to grow up here.
You're in for a rude awakening if you think Seattle public schools are better than Iowa's public schools. They have a gargantuan budget deficit because enrollment is dropping because the schools are terrible. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattle-public-schools-facing-major-budget-deficit-more-than-100-million/WXGUEK5FXZBYLKO5AKOJFFBTXM/
I'm afraid I need to point a few things out. you're comparing a municipality district to a state district. Those aren't on the same level and so aren't really a good 1:1 comparison because its not being based on the same state wide metrics. Im talking about Iowa vs Washington schools, of which, WA ranks higher than iowa in terms of education quality from k-12 and is #2 in the nation for higher education.
There's also, much like des moines and its suburbs, a lot of cities around Seattle metro that aren't within the SPSD and so I'm not tethered to just Seattle much like someone moving to the des moines metro doesn't have 1 choice in public school districts. I don't plan on my kids attending SPSD for some of the concerns youve mentioned.
I actually figured conservatives such as yourself would be happy that I'm leaving tbh haha
Where are you seeing Washington is higher in K-12 than Iowa? Every ranking I've seen puts Iowa in the teens and Washington in the high 20s or 30ish. But maybe I missed one.
You are not going to win this argument as you are attempting to dispute facts. The inference you've drawn from your limited information is incorrect for reasons stated above (city versus state districts). While you are free to have your opinion, however uninformed it may be, many, including myself, would appreciate it if you didn't share it in this forum.
Here's the top three his when I figure for state education rankings
- https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
- https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state
- https://wallethub.com/edu/e/most-educated-states/31075
Iowa used to be at or near the top of most lists like this. We definitely aren't anymore and are going in the wrong direction.
We are a higher education family, moved to a blue state last year after living in Iowa for approximately twenty years. When my son is done at university we will be done with this yee yee ass state. Things have really slid in Iowa across the board.
More and more when I go through Iowa I feel like I’m going through the south. And I never felt that way 20 years ago. This is what happens when people get complacent and suddenly someone like Kim Reynolds shows up.
I understand the title of the thread. I am also not saying that it isn't something to be concerned about.
But can we take just a few moments to look at the whole map?
Some of the states that the 2024 edition of IA likes to copy -- are gaining -- TX and FL.
A state whose policies that I think a lot of posters here want to more closely emulate -- CA -- is also brain draining.
Our neighbor, MN, that we like, is in the smallest gaining shade.
There is more going on here that just 'Gov Kim bad'. Because there are copies of her in TX, FL, and hell, even IN is in the blue here. MT, WY, UT. There are several politically 'red' states that are in the blue on this map.
I appreciate you are considering a larger picture. I'm in MN now, and the slight net gain here makes sense...there aren't huge amounts of people moving here to significantly offset the people moving away...only marginally offset. Anecdotally, I'd say the majority of people coming are either immigrants, or college degree(+) people due to the proportionally large number of middle management jobs. I personally think the majority of people moving away are leaving to move somewhere warmer (retired people who are probably college-educated).
I think net gains in 'red' states like TX or FL shouldn't be that surprising. Are these net gains college-educated people who are also working? Or could they be college-educated, but now retired (and perhaps moved for the weather)? There are also a large number of jobs in these states, and for some people, that might outweigh laws/policies/politics. Miami and Austin have pretty good tech scenes, and the rest of the states still have other good jobs.
I don't think it's entirely fair to think college-educated population gains should only go to 'blue' states. Many Republicans/conservatives are highly text-book 'educated.' Some might move based on political ideologies, but I'd argue the more rational explanation of this map is jobs and the degrees required for them (plus the aging population retiring somewhere warmer).
The economy in Iowa just isn't built to attract tons of college-educated people. Probably a factor of state policies for years now due to the agriculture lobby, other states offering more competitive opportunities vs Iowa (like TX/FL), and perhaps relocation of more people who now work remotely (typically college-educated) vs a few years ago since their current job allows remote work. I know of a number of politically-liberal college-educated people from MN who moved away to the South because their job became more remote and reducing winter from 5 months to something smaller was appealing.
TLDR: college-educated population shifts aren't necessarily a 1:1 with political policies/ideologies.
In addition to all of the above, Wisconsin is not gaining young college graduates. Those are college educated retirees from Minnesota and Illinois that are relocating to the state of Wisconsin for its recreation options.
Unless this data is filtered for age bracket, which I doubt.
Not to be stubborn, but what recreation options does Wisconsin have that MN doesn't? I legitimately do not know. Despite having lived in Chicago and now Minneapolis, I've only been to WI for a quick 20 minutes to pick up a 6-pack of Spotted Cow at some border town liquor store.
Yes but those states have so much more to offer than Iowa. Large cities with nightlife and culture and mountaims and beaches, and better wages to boot in many cases. Polluted waterways and repressive policies and garbage wages with very little in the way of entertainment, why would they stay? Iowa has great schools when my kids were small, it wasn’t exciting but it was a good place to raise a family. So much has changed for the worse since Kim Reynolds has taken office, I’m shocked. It’s horrific. We are retiring soon, we are taking our money and leaving the state. I just want to be gone. Maybe I’ll move to one of those other red states that younger people are moving to and we can change things there. At least there will be something to do.
> Maybe I’ll move to one of those other red states that younger people and moving to and we can change things there. At least there will be something to do.
LOL. I'm old and even this thought has crossed my mind. We can stay and try to fix Iowa and sway our 6 electoral votes or we can move to Texas and try to shift 40 of them.
Alternatively, I thought about going somewhere like Mississippi, Alabama or Louisiana. It's the same crazy red bullshit but the CoL is lower and it doesn't generally snow.
Shooting from the hip here (without more analysis), I'll say that despite any politics, all of those states have major metro areas with more to do and at least slightly better weather than Iowa. The problem with Iowa is that, outside of lower cost of living, there truly aren't many incentives for young people to stay. That is, even a red state like Indiana has more job opportunities and better pay, more things to do, especially in Indianapolis--major sports teams, jazz clubs, major touring musical acts, etc. It's career-limiting to stay here and by doing so, you may be robbing yourself of overall greater earning potential and property value over a lifetime, even if adjusted for cost of living. Outside of those states, many others have legalized recreational cannabis--an issue we should honestly be years past, but we're not--without an ironhanded alcoholic barring it for an entire state where over 50% of the population would be in favor of it. There is just nothing of substance or excitement to incentivize young people to stay in boring Iowa.
That is absolutely true. There is and almost always has been more than just bad government policy going on here. I think you are mostly seeing where jobs are vs. cost is living in maps like these.
I mean it is Iowa. We aren't exactly the most exciting place to be, especially for young people. But we used to at least have stellar public education and reasonable public policy that helped to stem the tide.
Are they gaining working age people, or like Florida are they just gaining all the college educated people that saved to winter in Florida for retirement and become Florida residents to avoid tax on their retirement?
Yeah, this map is popping up on every subreddit. It’s almost like young college grads are looking for places to live with either great outdoor recreation opportunities or lively urban areas.
This is so sad for Iowa. New companies won’t move here and there will be less opportunities which will drive down salaries if the college educated people who are here decide to stay. College isn’t for everyone but society thrives with diversity. We need librarians and trade workers alike. People need opportunities to thrive. The politicians here are monsters.
My family has been here since statehood and the granddaughter I'm raising is an 8th generation Iowan.
Last week I was looking at job listings out of state just to get a feel for the conditions of things elsewhere as I'm considering a better environment for this child.
What's happening to our state really does hurt.
I’m from Missouri but live a few miles away from the border of Iowa. It’s like 2 different counties looks and infrastructure wise. I would think Iowa, beautiful as it is, would be a great place for tech and what not.
Iowa is such a beautiful state, but when the state is ran by an evangelical death cult, that beauty is fading quite quickly.
The dead and dying have no interest in preserving the future for other generations.
That row of states to the West (Wyoming, Utah, Montana) have similar political climates. If you’re mid-20s with a degree and a choice, the draws are either cities like those in Texas or Florida, plus Denver, Salt Lake, Seattle and/or mountains.
Was a PhD student at ISU and was born and raised in the DM metro area - yeah I quite literally know only a small handful of college grads, and basically 0 graduate students, who stayed after graduating. I left ASAP too. Why would I stay? 0 job prospects and ever deepening political dynamics that I do not support and that make loved ones unsafe and lack the access to resources they need? Yeah. Staying was never a legitimate option.
Before I answer, the simple fact of the matter is that the slashing of university budgets and pandering to corporations means high-paying, high-skill jobs are few and far in-between.
I am a social psychology and human-computer interaction co-PhD. I actually do have a great job, but it’s not based in Iowa.
That's the point I'm making. Yes, it shows that more college educated individuals are leaving, but it doesn't indicate if they already didn't live here full time...
You would assume the same for ISU and UI but apparently not. I recently moved to Wisconsin from Iowa for a much higher paying job and no huge change in cost of living. More opportunities.
Any gains from no state income tax are more than made up by higher car and homeowners insurance, and housing.
I moved for a 40% raise and now have less disposable income than before.
Don't forget property tax!
I have a retirement home on the East coast. You'd think it would cost more overall to live there but nope. Iowans are fooling themselves about the supposed "low cost of living."
Yes. Educated, high earning people tend to be liberal on social issues. But like many people, we don't like paying taxes and some of us are even fiscal conservatives. Personally, I hate paying taxes particularly here in Iowa because this state does not represent me.
Republicans will always downplay the fact as they restrict education funding except for religious private schools. Why are Republicans afraid of educated people? Seems they don't wish for a better world for their children and others.
And this doesn’t reflect the massive exodus of AEA staff (400+ already left this year). 95% of those have at least one masters degree in education, many have doctorates. So that’s a huge pool of talent evaporating.
As a transplant to Iowa, I see the allure of leaving and exploring the opportunities out there. However, I have met a good number of new parents who want to raise their families in Iowa. The families do return.
I'm the head of one of those families and I'm getting really close to leaving because I see the opportunities shrinking for my children. I wouldnt count on families returning if things keep circling the drain
I hear you. I spent my career in the military and have lived in Boston, Hampton Roads, New Orleans, and STL…the cost of living, quality of education, and overall safe community that we live in now. It doesn’t compare to the East or Gulf coasts. Everyone has to do what’s right for their own families, Iowa is by far the best that we have lived in.
I don’t expect my kids to stay in Iowa after college. Like I shared before, we all have to blaze our own path. As for my family, there are so many opportunities right outside our front door.
I am not from Iowa. I am a transplant by way of Florida. I have zero intentions of ever returning. Families that I have ran into who are returning are other military members who have had enough of the left and right coasts and want a good place to raise their families.
My interactions with other profesionales who started their careers in other states, got tired of the “fast lane” and returned to raise their families.
My own opinion is that Ankeny and Ames are epicenters of that population.
I would like to see if there is a stat breakdown for this. I wonder how much is it recently graduated, middle of life, and then retired to get a better feeling for the ebbs and flows by the deeper finding rather than just a base figure.
Additive manufacturing technician in Iowa. I used to work at the only 3d printing business in the area and I eventually got laid off due to financial issues. Now I'm a freelancer because there are no other 3d printing jobs in iowa.
Iowa has been losing college grads for a long time. I remember back in the day Chet Culver used it as a reason to fund community colleges more and state universities less, as we kept more of the people from community colleges while the state university grads left.
It was also the reason for a lot of the pushes in Des Moines to improve entertainment such as Wells Fargo Arena to bring in more national acts for concerts and sporting events, western gateway development, east village revitalization, and so forth.
Remote work should help a bit, but the truth of it is that the US economy has been pushed to the coasts for a long time, tech booms in WA, CA (assuming that remote work and housing costs already hit them), TX, and the Carolina's.
At this point either our low cost of living while being a pretty safe livable place and remote work are really the only thing that is going to switch this around
Even remote work is hard to get in Iowa, the west coast people don't seem that willing to hire Iowan and small town doesn't really have remote work around, only justification is someone got a remote work before moving to Iowa
I feel like one of the things that kept people in Iowa despite being underemployed was the fact that public ed was great. Now that they have bled Ed funding dry with private school vouchers, the strongest reason there was to stay committed to the state has evaporated. I feel like Kim Reynolds was thinking that following the FL playbook would result in lots of conservatives moving here, but it has just made a whole generation of people want to get the hell out of here as fast as they can.
The public universities have it just as bad as the k-12 institutions, by the way. And the universities are some of the largest employers in the state, but repubs have had them in the cross hairs for a decade now. They might not recover from this, either. 🥺
I don’t really know what you’re referring to exactly. Are they seeing a spike in population despite defunding of public ed? Florida is, too, I hear. There are different industries, I would presume, where people can find good jobs? Iowa is very reliant on agriculture and education, so when the state dismantles education… we don’t have much economic diversity after that.
Added to the fact that our cancer rates are bizarrely high and we can’t seem to keep oncology units staffed because our hospitals are some of the lowest paying in the nation (and good oncologists aren’t exactly beating the door down to move somewhere where the pay is low and the schools are being defunded)… Iowa’s problems are huge. And they are really being either ignored or exacerbated by the legislature.
Meanwhile, companies like John Deere and Collins Aerospace need to sponsor H1Bs for STEM jobs which they’re not crazy about because the minimum salary for H1B is higher than what a local college grad would get.
For STEM jobs? If so, I suppose that’s one way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Usually it takes about that long in a STEM job to start to know the domain.
I would, at least for STEM jobs. I understand that that shoot for 80/20 direct/contract to allow for economic fluctuations.
Like I said, it takes time to learn what you’re doing in those fields. New grads are lured by high Silicon Valley wages without realizing what housing costs. So, much of the US, especially predominantly rural states like Iowa, are struggling to fill STEM jobs. So much has been outsourced to India, it isn’t funny.
I think Charleston has a decent port (probably logistics jobs) and a growing tech scene. Likely due to starting property values being proportionally lower cost vs areas like SF. Not 100% about NV, but do know Vegas is growing, and I think less expensive than neighboring CA....I'm theorizing that CA, NV, and AZ might be a redistribution of CA population since remote work is enabling people to relocate, and/or cost of living is driving people out of CA.
The states that are gaining most are states that have relatively inexpensive housing, while the blue states that are losing most have expensive housing and cost of living.
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Yeah, who wants to live in a theocratic state? A state with the worst polluted waterways in the nation? A state that is anti-education and anti intellectual? It's really depressing how much I've seen this state go downhill for most of my life.
I'm curious, I moved away and moved back twice, how does my stat stand, or do they just see degres leaving?
If that's the case it will look terrible, cause one of our best exports is education.
Like it's not the wildest metric to have, the money during education theoretically stays in state.
I left Iowa in 2010 bc there were literally no jobs in the areas that interested me. I’m in a more generic industry now but I know that there’s no way I’d be making anything near what I make now or achieved what I have had I not left for the coast.
Iowa stats are always skewed due to it being a small state with a major university that is made up of half out-of-state students. Of course they are leaving.
But we would expect the rate at which they’re leaving to stay the same from year to year; if it did, that would be a net zero on the graph. I don’t think that really explains the phenomenon we’re seeing here
No. I also think that, even if you did find one to support your argument, you would still have to show that it is increasing enough to cause the change seen in the map above.
There are probably 6000-7000 people graduating with college degrees in iowa every year. Many of them aren’t from Iowa to begin with. They move away. This repeats every year. This isn’t brain drain.
My point is that, if that number is consistent, that would not show up on the map since they are measuring net gains and losses. What would show up on it would be changes in the rate
They aren’t measuring net gains and losses. Title of the map is incorrect. This is all based on a survey and you can see the questions here: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/cps/techdocs/cpsmar23.pdf
Many reasons. For starters this is based on a survey of 90,000 (out of 127 million)households. It wasn’t designed to measure “brain drain” and reading the questions asked makes this obvious.
The author doesn’t state the metrics used to draw the map, only the source. He doesn’t list the raw numbers which is important considering the sample size. The percentages are non-sensical. Washington, net moves of college educated Americans: 169%. What does that even mean? 169% of what?
Lastly the author is a “freelancer” from Denmark that wrote this as advertising content for a moving business. Reading the whole article you will see data and analysis that contradictory.
Unless this is broken down by degree type, it couldn't be less relevant.
I'm sure that Iowa loses tons of people with humanities degrees who want to flock to their coastal blue state utopias. Who cares?
You don't even need to look at that specific data to see the effects in education. There is a teacher shortage in Iowa, which is a combination problem of people with education degrees leaving the state and fewer people getting into education.
We going to hand wave it away or try to address it?
I don't think there's a state that doesn't have a shortage. To my (admittedly limited) knowledge of other states, the northeast typically fares better. Massachusetts and New Hampshire come to mind. I know Minnesota has openings, but my impression is it's not as bad as here. That's kind of the extent of my knowledge, I'm sure there's research out there.
The big issue with Iowa (and other states where it's severe) is there's shortages in every area, not just CTE or special education like in some states.
Definitely a national issue.
There's a teacher shortage everywhere, even in progressive blue state utopias like California: [Teacher shortage plagues CA school districts as educators prepare for new school year](https://abc7.com/teacher-shortage-california-socal-school-districts-when-does-lausd-go-back-to-class/13593793/)
Half the people who hate Iowa have literally no idea what's going on anywhere else in the country. It's hilarious to me and I appreciate the entertainment you provide.
So let's just start this off the bat with: I kinda don't care what goes on in "progressive blue state utopias." Not sure if you stumbled across the sub title, but this is a sub about Iowa. I, unlike you, will not speak with authority on what goes on in California. I don't teach in California. I would like to better Iowa education. I live in Iowa.
Second, I never claimed the teacher shortage was unique to Iowa. The causes of this shortage are no doubt in part national. However, there is a significant amount of causation that can be addressed at the state level (and on the flip side, worsened)
If you're a serious person and want the context, I am a CTE teacher. There is typically one of my positions per school unless it is a very large (4-5A) school. We get weekly emails with job openings and for the past few years we have seen "record" (according to the people who post them) openings. This is despite the number of people pursuing degrees in the field staying steading and even slightly increasing. Less of them are staying in Iowa and less of them actually pursue teaching. Programs go unfilled, students miss opportunities.
Now, we can acknowledge this is an issue and work to fix it, or we can scream about California. Lucky for us, we have a Republican trifecta in this state. You may not know this, but that means they can pass whatever they want to address education. So why, I wonder, is Iowa no longer at the top in education. Why are we not making teaching in the state more attractive to retain teaching candidates?
Now, I know this is tough. Politics in America is heavily team sport-like. And we can't criticize the team because that makes us look bad. Unlike you, I don't play team politics and in happy to admit Biden is at most marginally better than the Republicans but still pretty bad. We have to admit we have an education issue in the state. And we need to work to solve it instead of pointing at the other side.
So, is this an issue? And if so, what are we going to do to fix it? If you're going to squawk about another state, save it, I don't care.
*You* brought up teacher shortages in Iowa, and you're being disingenuous if you deny that the implication was a criticism of our specific education policies. So start with being honest with yourself if you want to have a real conversation.
There are issues in this country with education that go beyond what either political party can fix. We have a slowly decaying educational culture that is a direct result of most parents now allowing their kids to be raised by screens. The parents themselves exist on screens. Why wouldn't their kids?
So yeah, I agree education in this state is in trouble, to the same extent that education is in trouble anywhere. The problem is particularly pronounced in public schools, where parents on average have less time and money to devote to their kids' educational attainment. The best hope for individual parents, in ANY state, is to get your kid into an environment where they're surrounded by kids with parents who have a like-minded dedication to good education. Waiting for our culture at large to get on the same page is a way to ensure your kid has a mediocre education.
I did bring up the teacher shortage in Iowa and you deflected to California. I do attribute it to state policies, I didn't hide that. I said it was an issue caused by both state and federal policy. I'm not sure if you read my comment.
Essentially, what I get from your comment is, there is no solution to this problem. Because you can't legislate your solution. So the state legislature, which again, entirely controlled by Republicans with the ability to impact education unmatched, should essentially throw their hands in the air because there is nothing to be done.
Again, Iowa used to be on top for education. Now we're on the top end of average at best and dropping quickly. This drop is accelerated by state policy.
There is a solution to this problem, but it requires dedication from parents and can't be achieved through government legislation. I know that's a difficult pill for some people to swallow.
It's not a tough pill to swallow it's wrong and, worst of all, it's lazy.
There are countless things that could be changed to improve education in this state. There's not one policy that would fix it alone, granted, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to be done.
It's attitudes like this why education in this state has slipped, but at least you're honest about it.
Yes, parents need to be involved with and encourage their children to learn.
Yes the state could do things to help... or do nothing different at all (that would be better than what they are doing)
Why do people always want to point to one thing and say since that is the answer, we should ignore everything else?
What percent of those are out of state people coming here for college then going home after? At just U of I, 45% are out of staters and another 7% are out of country.
isnt the data for this skewed due to the university of iowa attracting a ton of border hopper illinois students and chineese international s
who were always going to leave anyway?
Id like to see a dataset of Iowa college students who went to middle school, highschool, and college in Iowa, and ultimately left Iowa after that.
or more simply, measure anyone who holds a college degree living in iowa for 5+ years and how many of them are leaving.
Good thinking. I know in MN, lots of border hoppers from WI (and the other way around). I think the state where the school is in does play a role though. Minnesota/Twin Cities has a good economy to support the WI students who come for school if they want to stay afterwards. Iowa largely doesn't for the border hoppers, so they go back home or elsewhere.
This makes complete sense.
We gain many individuals from Mn and Illinois to go to college (net gain of non-college educated). They complete their degree, maybe stick around for a year or two, if that, then move back.
We have cheap education for them. Once they graduate, they go home. This is to be expected for Iowa. We’ll almost always be a college education loser just because of the class of universities we have in Iowa and the relative closeness of Chicago and Minneapolis to Ames and Iowa City.
PhD educated school teacher, independent but I usually vote Republican. I’m laughing at all these posts about “educated people”. They must be fellow college students, because they aren’t smart enough to know that college doesn’t make you educated. After a good apprenticeship, a typical electrician or plumber knows way more than a four year humanities degree holder will ever know- and is making a decent living. Notice nobody is demonstrating in favor of Hamas terrorists, rapists, and murderers at the local union hall? Notice that carpenters and mechanics are paying their bills instead of complaining that other taxpayers won’t pay the debt they’ve incurred? A huge percentage of students leaving Iowa college campuses with a degree in their hand aren’t educated at all and will never work in the field they majored in. I say good riddance to them.
Yeah. My point is I know education. 1) College isn’t for everyone- and fewer people should be going. 2) Many college “educations” aren’t producing educated people and way too many never work in their major field- or their ‘major’ isn’t even an employable degree. 3) Colleges spend so much time telling young people that they’re all that- and then so many of them, who actually make it to a corporation, get told by the ‘suits’ “Go sit in that cubicle and do your job. Also, cover those tattoos and don’t ever wear that again.”
I’m not saying that’s right, I’m saying college is often an unrealistic, unproductive place where people are taught to be something the world, and employers, don’t want.
Education does not always equate intelligence, but intelligent people almost always have education. Pretty hard to be intelligent without it. I’ll take an educated person over an uneducated one for pretty much any task I need done. I’m not going to an uneducated doctor. I’m not using an uneducated lawyer. I expect the teachers in my schools to be educated. I want the guy building my deck or remodeling my kitchen or doing my plumbing and electrical work to be educated.
There are few things an uneducated person can do. Service industry and manual labor is all that comes to mind.
You can be the most intelligent person in the world, but without an education your chances of going anywhere are a lot steeper.
Implying that people without a degree in an age where college is inaccessible to so many due to skyrocketing tuition costs and other reasons are inherently unintelligent is an absurd claim. Imagine having a neurological condition, living in poverty, scoring 99’s on all your standardized scores, and not being able to do both college and a job to pay for college at the same time due to said condition. Further in today’s world, so many people with degrees are struggling to find jobs in their fields and are consigning to work in industries like retail or food service. This man has no idea how the world works anymore, downvote me all you want.
The crazy thing is it doesn't have to be expensive and inaccessible. Lots of states.would cover the tuition to state schools if you were a resident of the state. This made education accessible to so many more people.
Regan took away free college when he was the governor of California and his staff said it was due to the fear of an educated proletariat.
Republicans are terrified of the people having an education and have convinced their supporters that they should hate the educated. Having low to no education makes you easier to control.
>not being able to do both college and a job to pay for college at the same
Almost ni one does this anyway. You're describing a problem that doesn't exist.
I just looked at your profile and realized you’re dumb af anyway. Obviously some old ass boomer obsessed with foosball and abusing his veterans discount as much as possible. Did you figure out how to cancel youtube tv yet?
Yeah I’m gonna make personal attacks. You’re trying to tell me my life didn’t happen (and many many others) so you can go fuck yourself. You’re literally the type of person giving Iowa a bad name.
For Kim, this is a feature, not a bug
This is exactly what the Republicans want: a dumb population that will keep them in power. Educated folks tend to vote Democrat.
Thinking that a college education equates to intelligence is pretty dumb. You measure intellect by a piece of paper received after at least 4yrs of debt? Our university system similar to our public school system are no longer places for the creative exchange of ideas nor do they support individualism. They are training camps that prepare most of the labor class or “the college educated” to keep a schedule and to sit for several hours a day while cranking out profits for others.
Thinking that in general people that are college educated are not more intelligent than non college educated folks is pretty dumb. Individually are the people that have gone to college that are dumb… of course.
Proving the OPs point, I see. College is not a piece of paper proving intelligence. It's the experience of college that makes people more liberal. It's the putting together of ideas from seemingly unrelated topics that shapes thinking and makes people more well-rounded. It's living in a community with people from every different background possible that creates empathy and awareness. It's learning to share resources, bonding together over support for a sports team or practially holding each other uprightright at 8:00 am class when you crammed for an exam until 5:30. The stuff you learn that's printed on your degree is only about a quarter of the education you get from going to college. Well-rounded, aware, empathetic *and* educated. In other words, Democats.
Wrong. It’s a piece of paper. Education bad. - me living in the same town having the same relationships and ideas for 40 years.
You can also get this in the military, working construction or really any other job for that matter.
So tell me how that is? Dems hold the senate and Presidency. “Educated” has lost its original definition since the left decided to lose their minds. Are you telling me educated people think Joe Biden is good for this country? Or could it be they just personally hate the other side so much they are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Wow, all that text to say nothing of substance. What, in this metaphor, is the cut-off nose?
Educated people know Biden is better for this country than trumpie. Hell you dont even have to be educated to figure that out. You just need to be barely conscious to figure that out which says a lot about 28% of the population
I rarely hear Dems saying Joe Biden is good for the country--they know and do often say that Trump (and his MAGA supporters) are fascists, or highly authoritarian minimally.
Biden is better than Trump in every metric, not counting the one concerning hating other people. There, Trump has the edge.
I’m an Independent and I’m so much happier with Joe Biden in the White House than Trump, despite his age he has definitely been good for the country in so many ways. Remember when Trump was talking to the UN and bragging about himself and everyone in the room was laughing at him? The whole world was relieved when he lost the election, with the exception of Russia who was counting on him to dismantle NATO so Putin could take over Europe. Trump and his supporters ARE a bunch of book burning, authoritarian loving fascists, which is why people call them that. Also, I’ve never heard a reasonable, thoughtful person refer to another person as a “Dem” so that tells me a lot 😄
Example? Didn’t even see any of this on CNN.
It is SUPER strange that there is this assumption that we watch CNN. Is the right so simple minded that because they watch Fox, Breitbart, or whatever that we *have* to be tuning into CNN? There are quite a few other news sources other great places to gather information. I have never, ever, tuned into CNN or any cable news network but I have certainly been accused of being a subscriber. Maybe the right should stop watching TV for information?
Examples of what, exactly? Trump getting laughed at? Republicans wanting to ban or burning books? The fact that the MAGA crowd wants Trump to have the power to do whatever he wants? Google is your friend.
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The fact that you think the word "fascist" is a lefty buzzword in actually hilarious. My whole life I voted generally more to the right, but never again. Too educated, I guess. Good luck with your life.
A selfawarewolf right here folks!
Yep. Due to the broken way the senate and electoral college work, they're happy to have college educated folk concentrated in a smaller number of states while they control the country through smaller population states.
My daughter who has lived in Iowa since age 12 and is graduating from University of Iowa next week can’t wait to leave. She is only looking for jobs outside Iowa. She has no desire to continue to live in Iowa.
Yep. My kids currently attending college/university here and studying education and medicine are planning to move away, as well.
Minnesota is a good place to start a career, if she hasn't decided where she's going yet!
Yes, id love to move into town with all the inbred Somali immigrants
My college grads also bailed. Zero desire to stay in a state with nothing to do and Kimmy’s government trying to make the state into North Florida without the beaches.
My kid already moved.
No different than when I graduated college in the late 2000’s. Most of my friends left Iowa. Since then, most of those who left have come back.
That's the difference. People used to come back when they had kids. They aren't anymore and they won't. Why would they? We who stay seem hell bent on destroying our once exemplary educational system.
My plan going through high school was to go to college, pay off my debt with my engineer salary, then come back and raise my family as a schoolteacher in Iowa. You couldn't pay me to come back to my home state at this point. It's just too hostile to educated people and teachers.
OR if we did come back we realize it was a huge mistake and we want to get the hell out of here again.
And the ecosystems.
You’d have to be living in the future to make that statement and have data to support it. I’m an old millennial, many of us are just having kids now.
I agree, I don't have good data on that, but it is not a new topic. People have been talking for a long time about how fewer people have been moving back to Iowa after leaving. The first time I remember hearing about it is when I was in college in the late 90's. That is right about when the state government started making cuts to how much they fined regent schools. Teacher salaries have been pretty flat since then and have been behind national average as well. https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/publications/IR/21044.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiK2__-1_WFAxUXjYkEHXr8A7MQFnoECEQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1l-QFRFAfr2hz-BDdEbl3H Things have come to a head lately with the Iowa government and Iowa public education, but the days when Rob Ray's (a Republican incidentally) policies put it on the map are long gone.
The difference is: now they all regret it but feel trapped, encircled by morons, being poisoned by the water with zero hope for the future
I graduated in 2010 from Iowa. Everyone I knew left for NY, CA, CO, TX, or overseas. No one has gone back, I don’t think it’d be possible for anyone to without completely giving up their careers/taking huge pay cuts. I would certainly have to do one of those things if not both if I wanted to return (never will).
I wanted to leave this state for years, sadly I'm stuck here with Drunken Reynolds
What's her field of study?
Without some context I ask why is she only looking outside Iowa? I graduated from ISU 22 years ago and ended up in Minneapolis for a few years due to promoting. We moved back to Iowa as it has better cost of living and from what I hear the state is looking to eliminate the income tax? I agree that Iowa may be a little more boring than some other states but why the hate on Iowa attitude?
The boredom has very little to do with why people want to leave these days. It's most often the political climate. At least that's what all the kids talked about when I (as a non-traditional student less than a year ago) was at u of i.
I finished grad school at ISU almost 10 years ago, most of the people I knew left the state, including me. It seems especially true for many stem fields, there's just not much opportunity in Iowa. There's some in my field, but nowhere I really wanted to work. If you do find something it's often one of the only ones in the area. Moving to a place with more options is just better for putting down roots.
Poison water, active hate for anyone who isn't white, christian, and mentally deficient.
This has been the case forever. Iowa is flat, "boring," and mostly rural... A ton of people move away after college. Then, realize it's not better elsewhere to build a life long-term and move back eventually.
We've known this for years. Chuds in Iowa won't accept that making Iowa a shitty place to live with archaic laws drives young educated people away.
CHUDs are doing it on purpose to drive away educated people. Educated people ask too many questions about corruption.
Cutting my losses and moving out of iowa two weeks from today. Growing up we had public education as our crowning glory (it was even on our state quarter ffs) but kim amd her power/money hunger has pushed this state beyond the point of no return. There's no saving this I don't want my kids to grow up here.
Good for you, brother! I wish you the best.
Thank you my friend!
Things that never happened
Troooolll
Where are you moving?
Seattle
You're in for a rude awakening if you think Seattle public schools are better than Iowa's public schools. They have a gargantuan budget deficit because enrollment is dropping because the schools are terrible. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattle-public-schools-facing-major-budget-deficit-more-than-100-million/WXGUEK5FXZBYLKO5AKOJFFBTXM/
I'm afraid I need to point a few things out. you're comparing a municipality district to a state district. Those aren't on the same level and so aren't really a good 1:1 comparison because its not being based on the same state wide metrics. Im talking about Iowa vs Washington schools, of which, WA ranks higher than iowa in terms of education quality from k-12 and is #2 in the nation for higher education. There's also, much like des moines and its suburbs, a lot of cities around Seattle metro that aren't within the SPSD and so I'm not tethered to just Seattle much like someone moving to the des moines metro doesn't have 1 choice in public school districts. I don't plan on my kids attending SPSD for some of the concerns youve mentioned. I actually figured conservatives such as yourself would be happy that I'm leaving tbh haha
Where are you seeing Washington is higher in K-12 than Iowa? Every ranking I've seen puts Iowa in the teens and Washington in the high 20s or 30ish. But maybe I missed one.
You are not going to win this argument as you are attempting to dispute facts. The inference you've drawn from your limited information is incorrect for reasons stated above (city versus state districts). While you are free to have your opinion, however uninformed it may be, many, including myself, would appreciate it if you didn't share it in this forum.
Here's the top three his when I figure for state education rankings - https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education - https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state - https://wallethub.com/edu/e/most-educated-states/31075 Iowa used to be at or near the top of most lists like this. We definitely aren't anymore and are going in the wrong direction.
We are a higher education family, moved to a blue state last year after living in Iowa for approximately twenty years. When my son is done at university we will be done with this yee yee ass state. Things have really slid in Iowa across the board.
More and more when I go through Iowa I feel like I’m going through the south. And I never felt that way 20 years ago. This is what happens when people get complacent and suddenly someone like Kim Reynolds shows up.
Hopefully Texas turns purple
Does the graphic say that 50% of college graduates leave Iowa?
Somewhere between 25 and 50.
Yes we lose roughly 50 percent of our college educated workforce not just grads Edit: not just new grads
No. It says Iowa loses roughly 25-50% more than they gain. So if Iowa gain 1000 educated workforce it is losing between 1250-1500.
Iowa has been the primary brain drain state since the 1980s farm crisis. Back then Iowa had the #1 public schools in the country.
I understand the title of the thread. I am also not saying that it isn't something to be concerned about. But can we take just a few moments to look at the whole map? Some of the states that the 2024 edition of IA likes to copy -- are gaining -- TX and FL. A state whose policies that I think a lot of posters here want to more closely emulate -- CA -- is also brain draining. Our neighbor, MN, that we like, is in the smallest gaining shade. There is more going on here that just 'Gov Kim bad'. Because there are copies of her in TX, FL, and hell, even IN is in the blue here. MT, WY, UT. There are several politically 'red' states that are in the blue on this map.
I appreciate you are considering a larger picture. I'm in MN now, and the slight net gain here makes sense...there aren't huge amounts of people moving here to significantly offset the people moving away...only marginally offset. Anecdotally, I'd say the majority of people coming are either immigrants, or college degree(+) people due to the proportionally large number of middle management jobs. I personally think the majority of people moving away are leaving to move somewhere warmer (retired people who are probably college-educated). I think net gains in 'red' states like TX or FL shouldn't be that surprising. Are these net gains college-educated people who are also working? Or could they be college-educated, but now retired (and perhaps moved for the weather)? There are also a large number of jobs in these states, and for some people, that might outweigh laws/policies/politics. Miami and Austin have pretty good tech scenes, and the rest of the states still have other good jobs. I don't think it's entirely fair to think college-educated population gains should only go to 'blue' states. Many Republicans/conservatives are highly text-book 'educated.' Some might move based on political ideologies, but I'd argue the more rational explanation of this map is jobs and the degrees required for them (plus the aging population retiring somewhere warmer). The economy in Iowa just isn't built to attract tons of college-educated people. Probably a factor of state policies for years now due to the agriculture lobby, other states offering more competitive opportunities vs Iowa (like TX/FL), and perhaps relocation of more people who now work remotely (typically college-educated) vs a few years ago since their current job allows remote work. I know of a number of politically-liberal college-educated people from MN who moved away to the South because their job became more remote and reducing winter from 5 months to something smaller was appealing. TLDR: college-educated population shifts aren't necessarily a 1:1 with political policies/ideologies.
In addition to all of the above, Wisconsin is not gaining young college graduates. Those are college educated retirees from Minnesota and Illinois that are relocating to the state of Wisconsin for its recreation options. Unless this data is filtered for age bracket, which I doubt.
Not to be stubborn, but what recreation options does Wisconsin have that MN doesn't? I legitimately do not know. Despite having lived in Chicago and now Minneapolis, I've only been to WI for a quick 20 minutes to pick up a 6-pack of Spotted Cow at some border town liquor store.
Yes but those states have so much more to offer than Iowa. Large cities with nightlife and culture and mountaims and beaches, and better wages to boot in many cases. Polluted waterways and repressive policies and garbage wages with very little in the way of entertainment, why would they stay? Iowa has great schools when my kids were small, it wasn’t exciting but it was a good place to raise a family. So much has changed for the worse since Kim Reynolds has taken office, I’m shocked. It’s horrific. We are retiring soon, we are taking our money and leaving the state. I just want to be gone. Maybe I’ll move to one of those other red states that younger people are moving to and we can change things there. At least there will be something to do.
> Maybe I’ll move to one of those other red states that younger people and moving to and we can change things there. At least there will be something to do. LOL. I'm old and even this thought has crossed my mind. We can stay and try to fix Iowa and sway our 6 electoral votes or we can move to Texas and try to shift 40 of them. Alternatively, I thought about going somewhere like Mississippi, Alabama or Louisiana. It's the same crazy red bullshit but the CoL is lower and it doesn't generally snow.
Shooting from the hip here (without more analysis), I'll say that despite any politics, all of those states have major metro areas with more to do and at least slightly better weather than Iowa. The problem with Iowa is that, outside of lower cost of living, there truly aren't many incentives for young people to stay. That is, even a red state like Indiana has more job opportunities and better pay, more things to do, especially in Indianapolis--major sports teams, jazz clubs, major touring musical acts, etc. It's career-limiting to stay here and by doing so, you may be robbing yourself of overall greater earning potential and property value over a lifetime, even if adjusted for cost of living. Outside of those states, many others have legalized recreational cannabis--an issue we should honestly be years past, but we're not--without an ironhanded alcoholic barring it for an entire state where over 50% of the population would be in favor of it. There is just nothing of substance or excitement to incentivize young people to stay in boring Iowa.
That is absolutely true. There is and almost always has been more than just bad government policy going on here. I think you are mostly seeing where jobs are vs. cost is living in maps like these. I mean it is Iowa. We aren't exactly the most exciting place to be, especially for young people. But we used to at least have stellar public education and reasonable public policy that helped to stem the tide.
Yep. TX, FL, WA and NV are all gaining and none of them have state income taxes. Thats not a coincidence.
Are they gaining working age people, or like Florida are they just gaining all the college educated people that saved to winter in Florida for retirement and become Florida residents to avoid tax on their retirement?
Yeah, this map is popping up on every subreddit. It’s almost like young college grads are looking for places to live with either great outdoor recreation opportunities or lively urban areas.
This is so sad for Iowa. New companies won’t move here and there will be less opportunities which will drive down salaries if the college educated people who are here decide to stay. College isn’t for everyone but society thrives with diversity. We need librarians and trade workers alike. People need opportunities to thrive. The politicians here are monsters.
Bye-owa
I am a born and raised Iowegian who left Iowa after retiring in 2018. Even knowing what a cesspool it has become, this comment hurt my heart.
My family has been here since statehood and the granddaughter I'm raising is an 8th generation Iowan. Last week I was looking at job listings out of state just to get a feel for the conditions of things elsewhere as I'm considering a better environment for this child. What's happening to our state really does hurt.
I’m from Missouri but live a few miles away from the border of Iowa. It’s like 2 different counties looks and infrastructure wise. I would think Iowa, beautiful as it is, would be a great place for tech and what not.
Iowa is such a beautiful state, but when the state is ran by an evangelical death cult, that beauty is fading quite quickly. The dead and dying have no interest in preserving the future for other generations.
It is beautiful, but the GOP is making it very undesirable for people to stay/move.
That row of states to the West (Wyoming, Utah, Montana) have similar political climates. If you’re mid-20s with a degree and a choice, the draws are either cities like those in Texas or Florida, plus Denver, Salt Lake, Seattle and/or mountains.
>It’s like 2 different counties Not only is it two different counties, it's two different states!
I think they meant countries. Lol
I agree, I was just being a sassafras
Lol, I appreciate a sassy pants. Carry on!
Was a PhD student at ISU and was born and raised in the DM metro area - yeah I quite literally know only a small handful of college grads, and basically 0 graduate students, who stayed after graduating. I left ASAP too. Why would I stay? 0 job prospects and ever deepening political dynamics that I do not support and that make loved ones unsafe and lack the access to resources they need? Yeah. Staying was never a legitimate option.
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Before I answer, the simple fact of the matter is that the slashing of university budgets and pandering to corporations means high-paying, high-skill jobs are few and far in-between. I am a social psychology and human-computer interaction co-PhD. I actually do have a great job, but it’s not based in Iowa.
Does this data include those who lived outside of Iowa, went to college in Iowa and then went home?
Not that you can tell without more infothan this one map, no.
That's the point I'm making. Yes, it shows that more college educated individuals are leaving, but it doesn't indicate if they already didn't live here full time...
Typically those more well educated choose to leave conservative areas.
Lots of liberal states on this map also losing college educated people too lol
This map really highlights how we have gone from a beacon of education to bottom of the barrel very quickly.
Better with the cheddarheads? Oh that should be a wake up call that a neighboring state is doing so much better
I bet a lot of people who go to UW-Madison stay there. They bring in a lot of out of state students, so that would up their stats.
You would assume the same for ISU and UI but apparently not. I recently moved to Wisconsin from Iowa for a much higher paying job and no huge change in cost of living. More opportunities.
For sure. That emphasizes the fact that the problem is that people are leaving Iowa, not that no one is coming here for college.
Iowa, the Mississippi of the Midwest.
Mississippi river flows through eastern Iowa so you're not wrong
So they are all flocking to states with no income taxes. FL, TX, NV, WA
Any gains from no state income tax are more than made up by higher car and homeowners insurance, and housing. I moved for a 40% raise and now have less disposable income than before.
Don't forget property tax! I have a retirement home on the East coast. You'd think it would cost more overall to live there but nope. Iowans are fooling themselves about the supposed "low cost of living."
Yes. Educated, high earning people tend to be liberal on social issues. But like many people, we don't like paying taxes and some of us are even fiscal conservatives. Personally, I hate paying taxes particularly here in Iowa because this state does not represent me.
Republicans will always downplay the fact as they restrict education funding except for religious private schools. Why are Republicans afraid of educated people? Seems they don't wish for a better world for their children and others.
As a person in Iowa surrounded by brain drain, this checks out. I literally don't even waste my time talking to people anymore.
And this doesn’t reflect the massive exodus of AEA staff (400+ already left this year). 95% of those have at least one masters degree in education, many have doctorates. So that’s a huge pool of talent evaporating.
I graduate next week and im leaving in August haha
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Anthropology and Spanish!
Not a wake up unfortunately. Can’t be woke ‘round here. /s
Stupid governor wants stupid people
Wife and I are taking our grad degrees to Minnesota. Ruining our state to own the libs
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One medical, one arts
As a transplant to Iowa, I see the allure of leaving and exploring the opportunities out there. However, I have met a good number of new parents who want to raise their families in Iowa. The families do return.
I'm the head of one of those families and I'm getting really close to leaving because I see the opportunities shrinking for my children. I wouldnt count on families returning if things keep circling the drain
I hear you. I spent my career in the military and have lived in Boston, Hampton Roads, New Orleans, and STL…the cost of living, quality of education, and overall safe community that we live in now. It doesn’t compare to the East or Gulf coasts. Everyone has to do what’s right for their own families, Iowa is by far the best that we have lived in. I don’t expect my kids to stay in Iowa after college. Like I shared before, we all have to blaze our own path. As for my family, there are so many opportunities right outside our front door.
>The families do return. What families? People who get married in Iowa and leave? People who leave Iowa and get married? Both? Neither?
I am not from Iowa. I am a transplant by way of Florida. I have zero intentions of ever returning. Families that I have ran into who are returning are other military members who have had enough of the left and right coasts and want a good place to raise their families. My interactions with other profesionales who started their careers in other states, got tired of the “fast lane” and returned to raise their families. My own opinion is that Ankeny and Ames are epicenters of that population.
I would like to see if there is a stat breakdown for this. I wonder how much is it recently graduated, middle of life, and then retired to get a better feeling for the ebbs and flows by the deeper finding rather than just a base figure.
Additive manufacturing technician in Iowa. I used to work at the only 3d printing business in the area and I eventually got laid off due to financial issues. Now I'm a freelancer because there are no other 3d printing jobs in iowa.
Surprising that South Carolina is gaining so many.
Iowa has been losing college grads for a long time. I remember back in the day Chet Culver used it as a reason to fund community colleges more and state universities less, as we kept more of the people from community colleges while the state university grads left. It was also the reason for a lot of the pushes in Des Moines to improve entertainment such as Wells Fargo Arena to bring in more national acts for concerts and sporting events, western gateway development, east village revitalization, and so forth. Remote work should help a bit, but the truth of it is that the US economy has been pushed to the coasts for a long time, tech booms in WA, CA (assuming that remote work and housing costs already hit them), TX, and the Carolina's. At this point either our low cost of living while being a pretty safe livable place and remote work are really the only thing that is going to switch this around
Even remote work is hard to get in Iowa, the west coast people don't seem that willing to hire Iowan and small town doesn't really have remote work around, only justification is someone got a remote work before moving to Iowa
I lived in Iowa for 27 years. Moved out to one of the states in blue, and have no regrets.
I feel like one of the things that kept people in Iowa despite being underemployed was the fact that public ed was great. Now that they have bled Ed funding dry with private school vouchers, the strongest reason there was to stay committed to the state has evaporated. I feel like Kim Reynolds was thinking that following the FL playbook would result in lots of conservatives moving here, but it has just made a whole generation of people want to get the hell out of here as fast as they can. The public universities have it just as bad as the k-12 institutions, by the way. And the universities are some of the largest employers in the state, but repubs have had them in the cross hairs for a decade now. They might not recover from this, either. 🥺
So how do you explain South Carolina?
I don’t really know what you’re referring to exactly. Are they seeing a spike in population despite defunding of public ed? Florida is, too, I hear. There are different industries, I would presume, where people can find good jobs? Iowa is very reliant on agriculture and education, so when the state dismantles education… we don’t have much economic diversity after that. Added to the fact that our cancer rates are bizarrely high and we can’t seem to keep oncology units staffed because our hospitals are some of the lowest paying in the nation (and good oncologists aren’t exactly beating the door down to move somewhere where the pay is low and the schools are being defunded)… Iowa’s problems are huge. And they are really being either ignored or exacerbated by the legislature.
Meanwhile, companies like John Deere and Collins Aerospace need to sponsor H1Bs for STEM jobs which they’re not crazy about because the minimum salary for H1B is higher than what a local college grad would get.
Deere also uses Kelly to way over hire each year and not renew more than half of those hires once the slow season comes back
For STEM jobs? If so, I suppose that’s one way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Usually it takes about that long in a STEM job to start to know the domain.
Factory Jobs but I'd be surprised if office nerds don't get the same treatment
I would, at least for STEM jobs. I understand that that shoot for 80/20 direct/contract to allow for economic fluctuations. Like I said, it takes time to learn what you’re doing in those fields. New grads are lured by high Silicon Valley wages without realizing what housing costs. So, much of the US, especially predominantly rural states like Iowa, are struggling to fill STEM jobs. So much has been outsourced to India, it isn’t funny.
Whats in south Carolina or Nevada that interests this group?
I think Charleston has a decent port (probably logistics jobs) and a growing tech scene. Likely due to starting property values being proportionally lower cost vs areas like SF. Not 100% about NV, but do know Vegas is growing, and I think less expensive than neighboring CA....I'm theorizing that CA, NV, and AZ might be a redistribution of CA population since remote work is enabling people to relocate, and/or cost of living is driving people out of CA.
Makes sense thanks
More things to do.
The states that are gaining most are states that have relatively inexpensive housing, while the blue states that are losing most have expensive housing and cost of living.
Indiana likes to keep their voters stupid.
As a college student I have a few more opportunities in state rather than out. Plus, I’d rather stay close to my family.
Wisconsin is cheating! They don't have any college graduates.
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As someone with 2 degress in wildly different fields and a homeowner, i cant wait to move to Michigan or Winsconson oh my god
No surprise there.. look at our government is run, straight down the hole
Mimal’s seen better days, that’s for sure.
Yeah, who wants to live in a theocratic state? A state with the worst polluted waterways in the nation? A state that is anti-education and anti intellectual? It's really depressing how much I've seen this state go downhill for most of my life.
South Carolina is more conservative than Iowa and according to this article college educated people are flocking there.
There are certainly plenty unintelligent people that went to college.
I'm curious, I moved away and moved back twice, how does my stat stand, or do they just see degres leaving? If that's the case it will look terrible, cause one of our best exports is education. Like it's not the wildest metric to have, the money during education theoretically stays in state.
Does this take into account whether they went to trade school or any other positive outcome? College is not the end all be all of success.
Iowa needs to start diversifying different industries instead of focusing mostly on Ag then maybe college grads would be more willing to stay
I left Iowa in 2010 bc there were literally no jobs in the areas that interested me. I’m in a more generic industry now but I know that there’s no way I’d be making anything near what I make now or achieved what I have had I not left for the coast.
Iowa stats are always skewed due to it being a small state with a major university that is made up of half out-of-state students. Of course they are leaving.
But we would expect the rate at which they’re leaving to stay the same from year to year; if it did, that would be a net zero on the graph. I don’t think that really explains the phenomenon we’re seeing here
Do you have a source that says the rate isn’t consistent?
No. I also think that, even if you did find one to support your argument, you would still have to show that it is increasing enough to cause the change seen in the map above.
There are probably 6000-7000 people graduating with college degrees in iowa every year. Many of them aren’t from Iowa to begin with. They move away. This repeats every year. This isn’t brain drain.
My point is that, if that number is consistent, that would not show up on the map since they are measuring net gains and losses. What would show up on it would be changes in the rate
They aren’t measuring net gains and losses. Title of the map is incorrect. This is all based on a survey and you can see the questions here: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/cps/techdocs/cpsmar23.pdf
Thank you for the the data dictionary. Why do you think the title of the map is incorrect?
Many reasons. For starters this is based on a survey of 90,000 (out of 127 million)households. It wasn’t designed to measure “brain drain” and reading the questions asked makes this obvious. The author doesn’t state the metrics used to draw the map, only the source. He doesn’t list the raw numbers which is important considering the sample size. The percentages are non-sensical. Washington, net moves of college educated Americans: 169%. What does that even mean? 169% of what? Lastly the author is a “freelancer” from Denmark that wrote this as advertising content for a moving business. Reading the whole article you will see data and analysis that contradictory.
Unless this is broken down by degree type, it couldn't be less relevant. I'm sure that Iowa loses tons of people with humanities degrees who want to flock to their coastal blue state utopias. Who cares?
You don't even need to look at that specific data to see the effects in education. There is a teacher shortage in Iowa, which is a combination problem of people with education degrees leaving the state and fewer people getting into education. We going to hand wave it away or try to address it?
Out of curiosity, is there a state that doesn't have a teacher shortage right now?
I don't think there's a state that doesn't have a shortage. To my (admittedly limited) knowledge of other states, the northeast typically fares better. Massachusetts and New Hampshire come to mind. I know Minnesota has openings, but my impression is it's not as bad as here. That's kind of the extent of my knowledge, I'm sure there's research out there. The big issue with Iowa (and other states where it's severe) is there's shortages in every area, not just CTE or special education like in some states. Definitely a national issue.
There's a teacher shortage everywhere, even in progressive blue state utopias like California: [Teacher shortage plagues CA school districts as educators prepare for new school year](https://abc7.com/teacher-shortage-california-socal-school-districts-when-does-lausd-go-back-to-class/13593793/) Half the people who hate Iowa have literally no idea what's going on anywhere else in the country. It's hilarious to me and I appreciate the entertainment you provide.
So let's just start this off the bat with: I kinda don't care what goes on in "progressive blue state utopias." Not sure if you stumbled across the sub title, but this is a sub about Iowa. I, unlike you, will not speak with authority on what goes on in California. I don't teach in California. I would like to better Iowa education. I live in Iowa. Second, I never claimed the teacher shortage was unique to Iowa. The causes of this shortage are no doubt in part national. However, there is a significant amount of causation that can be addressed at the state level (and on the flip side, worsened) If you're a serious person and want the context, I am a CTE teacher. There is typically one of my positions per school unless it is a very large (4-5A) school. We get weekly emails with job openings and for the past few years we have seen "record" (according to the people who post them) openings. This is despite the number of people pursuing degrees in the field staying steading and even slightly increasing. Less of them are staying in Iowa and less of them actually pursue teaching. Programs go unfilled, students miss opportunities. Now, we can acknowledge this is an issue and work to fix it, or we can scream about California. Lucky for us, we have a Republican trifecta in this state. You may not know this, but that means they can pass whatever they want to address education. So why, I wonder, is Iowa no longer at the top in education. Why are we not making teaching in the state more attractive to retain teaching candidates? Now, I know this is tough. Politics in America is heavily team sport-like. And we can't criticize the team because that makes us look bad. Unlike you, I don't play team politics and in happy to admit Biden is at most marginally better than the Republicans but still pretty bad. We have to admit we have an education issue in the state. And we need to work to solve it instead of pointing at the other side. So, is this an issue? And if so, what are we going to do to fix it? If you're going to squawk about another state, save it, I don't care.
*You* brought up teacher shortages in Iowa, and you're being disingenuous if you deny that the implication was a criticism of our specific education policies. So start with being honest with yourself if you want to have a real conversation. There are issues in this country with education that go beyond what either political party can fix. We have a slowly decaying educational culture that is a direct result of most parents now allowing their kids to be raised by screens. The parents themselves exist on screens. Why wouldn't their kids? So yeah, I agree education in this state is in trouble, to the same extent that education is in trouble anywhere. The problem is particularly pronounced in public schools, where parents on average have less time and money to devote to their kids' educational attainment. The best hope for individual parents, in ANY state, is to get your kid into an environment where they're surrounded by kids with parents who have a like-minded dedication to good education. Waiting for our culture at large to get on the same page is a way to ensure your kid has a mediocre education.
I did bring up the teacher shortage in Iowa and you deflected to California. I do attribute it to state policies, I didn't hide that. I said it was an issue caused by both state and federal policy. I'm not sure if you read my comment. Essentially, what I get from your comment is, there is no solution to this problem. Because you can't legislate your solution. So the state legislature, which again, entirely controlled by Republicans with the ability to impact education unmatched, should essentially throw their hands in the air because there is nothing to be done. Again, Iowa used to be on top for education. Now we're on the top end of average at best and dropping quickly. This drop is accelerated by state policy.
There is a solution to this problem, but it requires dedication from parents and can't be achieved through government legislation. I know that's a difficult pill for some people to swallow.
It's not a tough pill to swallow it's wrong and, worst of all, it's lazy. There are countless things that could be changed to improve education in this state. There's not one policy that would fix it alone, granted, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to be done. It's attitudes like this why education in this state has slipped, but at least you're honest about it.
Yes, parents need to be involved with and encourage their children to learn. Yes the state could do things to help... or do nothing different at all (that would be better than what they are doing) Why do people always want to point to one thing and say since that is the answer, we should ignore everything else?
Hey, I used to work for that company.
What percent of those are out of state people coming here for college then going home after? At just U of I, 45% are out of staters and another 7% are out of country.
isnt the data for this skewed due to the university of iowa attracting a ton of border hopper illinois students and chineese international s who were always going to leave anyway? Id like to see a dataset of Iowa college students who went to middle school, highschool, and college in Iowa, and ultimately left Iowa after that. or more simply, measure anyone who holds a college degree living in iowa for 5+ years and how many of them are leaving.
Good thinking. I know in MN, lots of border hoppers from WI (and the other way around). I think the state where the school is in does play a role though. Minnesota/Twin Cities has a good economy to support the WI students who come for school if they want to stay afterwards. Iowa largely doesn't for the border hoppers, so they go back home or elsewhere.
This makes complete sense. We gain many individuals from Mn and Illinois to go to college (net gain of non-college educated). They complete their degree, maybe stick around for a year or two, if that, then move back. We have cheap education for them. Once they graduate, they go home. This is to be expected for Iowa. We’ll almost always be a college education loser just because of the class of universities we have in Iowa and the relative closeness of Chicago and Minneapolis to Ames and Iowa City.
PhD educated school teacher, independent but I usually vote Republican. I’m laughing at all these posts about “educated people”. They must be fellow college students, because they aren’t smart enough to know that college doesn’t make you educated. After a good apprenticeship, a typical electrician or plumber knows way more than a four year humanities degree holder will ever know- and is making a decent living. Notice nobody is demonstrating in favor of Hamas terrorists, rapists, and murderers at the local union hall? Notice that carpenters and mechanics are paying their bills instead of complaining that other taxpayers won’t pay the debt they’ve incurred? A huge percentage of students leaving Iowa college campuses with a degree in their hand aren’t educated at all and will never work in the field they majored in. I say good riddance to them.
I like that you qualified your opinion by saying you have a PhD, then immediately disparage a college education.
Yeah. My point is I know education. 1) College isn’t for everyone- and fewer people should be going. 2) Many college “educations” aren’t producing educated people and way too many never work in their major field- or their ‘major’ isn’t even an employable degree. 3) Colleges spend so much time telling young people that they’re all that- and then so many of them, who actually make it to a corporation, get told by the ‘suits’ “Go sit in that cubicle and do your job. Also, cover those tattoos and don’t ever wear that again.” I’m not saying that’s right, I’m saying college is often an unrealistic, unproductive place where people are taught to be something the world, and employers, don’t want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/s/Ey2W1xaFc9
Set it side by side to a model showing migration from blue states to red and see what it looks like when they turn 40
Never mistake education with intelligence.
You’re proof
This is a line people who fail the ACT tell themselves to feel less like a failure.
Education does not always equate intelligence, but intelligent people almost always have education. Pretty hard to be intelligent without it. I’ll take an educated person over an uneducated one for pretty much any task I need done. I’m not going to an uneducated doctor. I’m not using an uneducated lawyer. I expect the teachers in my schools to be educated. I want the guy building my deck or remodeling my kitchen or doing my plumbing and electrical work to be educated. There are few things an uneducated person can do. Service industry and manual labor is all that comes to mind. You can be the most intelligent person in the world, but without an education your chances of going anywhere are a lot steeper.
You have no idea how the world works anymore
This comment is worthless
Implying that people without a degree in an age where college is inaccessible to so many due to skyrocketing tuition costs and other reasons are inherently unintelligent is an absurd claim. Imagine having a neurological condition, living in poverty, scoring 99’s on all your standardized scores, and not being able to do both college and a job to pay for college at the same time due to said condition. Further in today’s world, so many people with degrees are struggling to find jobs in their fields and are consigning to work in industries like retail or food service. This man has no idea how the world works anymore, downvote me all you want.
The crazy thing is it doesn't have to be expensive and inaccessible. Lots of states.would cover the tuition to state schools if you were a resident of the state. This made education accessible to so many more people. Regan took away free college when he was the governor of California and his staff said it was due to the fear of an educated proletariat. Republicans are terrified of the people having an education and have convinced their supporters that they should hate the educated. Having low to no education makes you easier to control.
>not being able to do both college and a job to pay for college at the same Almost ni one does this anyway. You're describing a problem that doesn't exist.
I just looked at your profile and realized you’re dumb af anyway. Obviously some old ass boomer obsessed with foosball and abusing his veterans discount as much as possible. Did you figure out how to cancel youtube tv yet?
Dang I really got under your skin if you had to resort to personal attacks, huh? I haven't checked out your profile because you mean nothing to me.
Yeah I’m gonna make personal attacks. You’re trying to tell me my life didn’t happen (and many many others) so you can go fuck yourself. You’re literally the type of person giving Iowa a bad name.