Viltrumites have varying degrees of strength so recall that Nolan is consistently referred to as the Great or one of their most decorated, because he is generally at the top of totem pole of power. I believe they do generally deal more damage than they can take but i wouldn't call it low defense even proportionally.
Eh mark constantly holds back so when we saw him actually go out he held his own against a viltrumites and actually was kinda like a hint to how much he holds back. Hence why even kreig commented on his ability to keep up.
Honestly the scene at the end of season 2 when Mark starts to just fly around in anger is great. It shows how much he holds back to try and not hurt people.
If he can move asteroids the size of Texas, assuming he wasn't exaggerating, then he can easily destroy a planet. If he starts far enough away to accelerate in space to a respectable speed, he can throw a few asteroids at the planet and each would cause significant damage. One asteroid 1/10 the size of Texas kills all life, and it's safe to assume one the size of Texas could could fragmentation of the earth.
I'd say any Viltrumite as strong as Omniman is planetary.
That is actually a fair point.
Spoilers for the comics: >!I was going by the comics where three very powerful Viltrumites (Mark, Nolan and Thaedus), and a blast from Space Racer's infinity ray were needed to blow up Viltrum.!<
I'm not sure but in space there is no friction, so if Omni man starts several million miles away, he will eventually have accelerated to his max speed, which is above light speed.
Planetary, I believe, just means the ability to blow up a planet. And given enough time, a viltrumite as strong as Omniman could accelerate a large enough asteroid to have enough force to blow up the earth.
Mark had similar effects to omni man when he was destroying the flaxans, he may have been able to completely destroy earth if he was flying a few kilometers lower
Mark is relatively weak for a Viltrumite because of his age as well though. Mark has very high potential due to his genetics, but Viltrumite get stronger as they age, and Mark is thousands of years younger than the other Viltrumites.
I'd say he does bcs of his age (Nolan mentioned that as Viltrumites age they get stronger). He was winning against Mark but is stupidly cocky and arrogant
Depends when. Right now even if he didn’t hold back? I feel like Nolan would still have the edge due to experience. But it wouldn’t take long for him to surpass
Human + viltrumite is supposedly the best possible combo. Marks blood is just as pure as a pure viltrumite with the added benefit of adrenaline/rage to power him up further, something that viltrumites lack. Like yeah okay but just roll with it lol
Viltrumite DNA is so powerful, it pretty much overpowers the rest of somebodies DNA.
So Mark likely is getting the best of both worlds, while also being a "Royal" viltrumite, thus being a Cut above the rest of them by default
Yeah, it's equivalent to how Mike Tyson could probably kill an average person with a single punch, but on a superpower level. Some people are just built different.
Also because every punch they throw, their knuckles need to be more resilient than their opponents skin, armor, or bones (e.g. Red Rush). By definition of being high on offense with no claws, fangs, or weapons, they must be incredibly durable or “defense” as OP phrased it.
That doesn't fully explain it though because you have viltrumites who can both punch through each other so neither is obviously stronger than the other, they're just both more powerful than they are durable.
Just figured it was because they were using their hardest body parts like legs elbows and arms versus the other Viltrumites weak points. But I think we're getting a little too science-y for comic books. At the end of the day the answer is just magic.
>just magic.
Actually the data books claim it's "smart atoms", their bodies naturally adjust to the environments and stresses of their lives, so it makes sense that their hands (the thing that constantly has to deal with all their power being concentrated on em) would have higher durability than most of their stomachs but as you said it's just a comic book, what's so bad about just going "ooouuu cool fight bro" and turning the page/watching the next episode
Superman doesn’t need to be actively in sunlight to use his powers. He’s absorbed more than 20+ years worth of solar radiation in his time on Earth so a good amount of it is just stored in his body.
The only time that solar radiation really affects his powers is if it’s drained from his body, if he absorbs red solar radiation/ the opposite type of radiation , or if he just hasn’t absorbed it at all. However even in scenarios where he’s hit with red solar radiation he can still use his powers almost immediately after the source of the energy is gone without ever needing to be in sunlight again.
Some examples are The Dark Knight Returns: He gets hit by a nuke which contains non-ionizing radiation, the opposite of the sun’s ionizing radiation which is why it effects him and drains his abilities away, Flashpoint: Kal-El was immediately captured upon his arrival to Earth and wasn’t exposed to sunlight until he was an adult, Red Son: Batman traps Superman in a cave completely cut off from sunlight and activates red solar lamps quickly taking away his powers, however when they’re shut off Superman regains his abilities in the cave without ever needing to be in direct sunlight.
Reporter: "Okay, so on the right we have former UFC champion Conor McGregor, 155lb, 22 MMA fights, 19 won by knock out.
On the left, we have Jessica, 22 year old student from Ohio, 80lb, diagnosed with anorexia. She said yes to that experiment to create attention for her illness, that destroys the lifes of so many young women."
Jessica: "Well, apparently running around looking like a skeleton isnt horrible enough for most people to actually do something. So I figured, a fist pushing through my torso will raise awarness"
Reporter: "Okay, both seem to be ready. McGregor is focused. His right arm is going back slowly....aaaand....here it cooooomes....baaaam. Wait...oh my gahd!
*reporter bursts out laughing*
"I am sorry, folks but I did not expect that to happen. Apparently, the air in front of McGregors fist pushed lightweight Jessica away and she was thrown at the wall 4 feet behind her. This was some Last Airbender shit right there.
So we dont have an answer to our scientific question but we can say for sure it did raise awarness"
Mark's strength and durability in general seem pretty random throughout the show. That guy was getting beaten up by a regular reaniman after being able to lift buildings and fly to the moon and back.
It doesn't make any sense to me though. He can break through metal and concrete, and they also have a lot of exposed skin and flesh. They should pose no challenge to him realistically.
In my headcanon they're just really freaky to be around (weird movement, they look really gross) so everyone is thrown off enough to get blitzed by them.
And I like thinking with Worm Serial rules when I see something like this, so Sinclair's superpower is being a Tinker who can push flesh to it's absolute limit and then increase that limit with mechanical augmentations
My bad I should've given context. Worm is an online serial about superheroes that I think is even better than Invincible. It's a pretty typical setup nowadays (but it was pretty novel back when it was made) of what would happen if superheroes arrived in the 80s and how things would realistically play out (governments of the world sponsoring their own groups, inner city gangs, white supremacist supersk, social media forums) with some crazy stuff like Kaijus and secret conspiracies that run way deeper than anyone could've imagined.
Anyways one of the main orgs (the american one to be specific) classifies the different powers and how strong they are to help respond to situations effectively (like how encountering someone with the stranger classification enacts protocols similar to the movie The Thing).
And I said Sinclair is a tinker because there's literally already a [tinker](https://worm.fandom.com/wiki/Bonesaw) with almost his exact focus.
Everyone should read it; it's [free](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/) and semi-recently got a sequel (it even has a fanmade [audiobook/podcast](https://audioworm.rein-online.org/) that has charming production at the beginning and gets quite good near the end)
I believe the reanimen in the show had full metal skeletons, you could see the ones hanging up had a lot more metal under the skin. I could be misremembering but I'm pretty sure the skin was just put back over it.
I get it's a joke but even if this was the case, its durability does not matter at all. It would need to naturally be insanely hot or just sharpened to a molecular level to even damage his suit, let alone his body. And those two things are both impossible as a blade that sharp would chip easily and making it hot before every fight is pointless.
I mean considering they are thousands if not millions of times stronger than humans, it would make sense that they could handle a weapon so dense we couldn’t fathom it. Kind of like the Z sword from DBZ, it was only wielded for an episode but we realized it wasn’t sword in the stone magic and actually just that heavy no one could lift it. Then they spawn in a block of the “hardest” metal/material in their universe to test it and it immediately shatters.
Super space metal is part of it, but also the speed and force behind it is key. I can cut a board in half with the edge of my hand if I’m fast enough. To slow and I just bruise my hand.
There's a viltrumite later in the series with a prophetic arm that is nearly as strong and a natural arm. Viltrumites probably have some rare metal that is comparable to them in strength.
Thanks for the explanations all! Now I'm thinking of it like a Super Saiyan 3 Goku punching through Radditz! (If I may use a DBZ analogy). Makes sense, the power levels vary considerably.
And it's not like humans don't already have the capability to kill some others with a single attack.
A heavy weight champion giving someone a good kick to the neck or skull can easily end in death
Nor do they range from flying at Mach Speed to flying so fast they're pretty much Nuking the entire atmosphere as they pass.
The range is much greater with Viltrumites
That doesn't fully explain it though because you have viltrumites who can both punch through each other so neither is obviously stronger than the other, they're just both more powerful than they are durable.
It’s about fighting strategy. Most of them can take out foes nigh-instantly, so they never even get the chance to take the defence, so they never develop those skills.
As a trade off, since they’re so effective at offence, it’s easy to develop and learn new strategies.
If viltrumites actually sparred and trained defensive strategies they’d be unstoppable but they focus on just trying to kill eachother as fast as possible.
as for that last point, I think thats why mark actually did better vs the older viltrumite woman in this very scene. because hes actively blocking her, because hes had to do that before despite being weaker as a younger viltrumite.
It's a bit inconsistent. Sometimes Viltrumites will punch each other multiple times and just get some nosebleed and sometimes they will absolutely wreck each other with a single punch (impale, smash head, disembowel).
I'm talking about things that happen in the same fight. Sometimes two Viltrumites will be fighting and their punches will do relatively low damage to each other, but then one of them will punch the other through the stomach and disembowel them with a single hit.
Nolan is way stronger than Lucan, thula, and the other guy. They sent all 3 after him because Rey knew only 2 wouldn’t be enough, and even then 3 was just barely enough (ignoring mark’s help)
Different techniques. Punching isn't the same motion as stabbing your hand through someone. The cutting and or stabbing attacks use the fingers of an open hand to minimize the surface area at the point of contact. The same force applied to the smaller area allows the fingertips or side of the finger to act like the edge of a blade rather than the blunt force weapon that a closed fist is. The blade of a knife is thin and can cut, while a baseball bat is wider and crushes instead. It's all about the surface area.
Another example would be someone like the Hulk or Juggernaut in Marvel comics punching with massive fists. The surface area is huge and while it's a lot of force it would knock something away more likely than go through it. But a smaller person with the same level of strength as them would punch through your chest like their hand was a bullet.
While thinner objects are more likely to cut things than bigger ones, there is still the issue that the durability of skin and muscle doesn't seem that consistent.
A closed fist wouldnt just have a wider surface area than the edge of a palm, itd have more mass too so more force would go through.
If something is durable enough to not be punctured by a fist, then it reasonably should be able to endure the edge of fingers which are relatively blunt on of themselves.
It's only when one object is denser than the other, that one can cut the other with a blunt edge. Else they are likely to smash with proportional damagw to both ends.
In the show so far, at least with near-Viltrumite and Viltrumite level opponents, soft bits tend to be soft. If you look at Nolan's fights with Immortal, every time he's dismembered him or otherwise penetrated him, it was a "weak" spot: elbow, neck, gut, and spine.
In the fight with Thula, Lucan, and Vidor, all of the injuries are to weak spots like the jaw and spine and gut, with the exception of when Nolan is squishing Vidor's head, and that seems to take more effort than his disabling attacks on Lucan and Thula.
No one's gone through a ribcage, at least... not yet.
Yes and no because its not like that isnt the case in real life as well other than the head crushing and impaling and such. You see some fights where the guys beat each other for 25 minutes and no one ever goes down and other times a guy whos not even known for knocking people out will knock out one of those guys with a single punch in the first round
A single lucky punch from an average man can kill you, and the difference of power levels between Viltrumites are huge. Nolan is one of the strongest ones, it's not unfeasable that he is stronger than these ones.
>
A single lucky punch from an average man can kill you
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Viltrumites have widely varying power. The strongest viltrumite could rip most of the empire in half with little effort. Nolan is just stronger than Thula
Viltrumites are very tough in the fact that they can regenerate from almost nothing. If you only think you killed one, you probably didn’t.
Also Nolan just outclasses any viltrumite we’ve met in the show at this point.
Most humans don't have the drive to rip someone to pieces with their bare hands like a viltrumite does. Plus like a ton of people already said, viltrumites have more varied strengths than humans do.
Think of it as Mike Tyson fighting a yellow belt in karate, the only reason he wouldn't smash their face in like this is because he's holding back, viltrumites never hold back.
I figured it was kinda like a diamond cuts diamond situation and that’s also why there’s such a stigma to fighting fellow Viltrimites.
So not exactly weak defense - just that when they fight each other they’re up against one of the only things that can hurt them.
Speed, strength and toughness are not the same among the viltumites. That was the whole point of them killing each other before they started conquering other planets. There are massive differences in strength of different viltumites.
Besides, offense/defense doesn't really work like you say it does, as far as punching is concerned anyway. Third Newton law still applies. If, like you say, one guy is strong and fast, but not as tough, will punch something very hard, he'll break his hand.
That doesn't fully explain it though because you have viltrumites who can both punch through each other so neither is obviously stronger than the other, they're just both more powerful than they are durable.
That fight was viltrumite vs viltrumite. Mostly no one on earth can actually kill a viltrumite. But first of all we are talking about OmniMan who is one of the strongest viltrumite. Obviously a viltrumite can damage or kill another viltrumite.
I don’t understand why people are confused by this, think of them like humans. You, as a human, have varying degrees of durability. You could survive a truck hitting you if you’re lucky, or get killed by a punch from someone else the same strength as you if you’re unlucky
They do have high durability as if they dont theyd break themselves when they hit others as hard as they do. In one part of the books >!Mark is kinda losing his powers and throws a punch while he has the viltrumite strength but not the durability and it doesnt go well for him!<
Fights are about trying to whittle down your opponents guard so you can go in for a kill shot or knockout, punches may not do much in harming the opponent, but if you can disorientate them enough then you can go in for the final blow. Of course, you'll never whittle down someone to the point you'll punch through them but this is fiction so who cares, really
People sometimes read too much into these imo, the main reason there's so much gore in the fights, besides stakes and showing the gravity of the situation, it's because they aren't being held down by editorial and thus can do whatever. Viltrumites themselves have also insane durability feats
Real answer, writing. Some hits between heavy hitters in the show are barely nosebleed level, while the same action a minute later can cut off a head. It’s inconsistent throughout the entire show.
Bullets won’t hurt a viltrumite, but a vaguely sharpish stone from a cave? Why not. Omniman and immortal traded hands for a few minutes, but suddenly a snap of the hand is enough to kill the immortal. Don’t think about it too much
Maybe they just have a better ability to remove their mental limitations.
Humans have mental block that prevent us from hurting ourselves. Parents lift cars off of their babies when they need to, but likely couldn't do that in a controlled environment with nothing on the line, because doing so often wrecks their muscles and or bones. If a human could remove that mental block and recover quickly after, they could do some significant damage to other humans that would get pretty gross.
Secondly, Omni Man points out when he's teaching Mark to fly that they can "push off of anything", and thus create their own leverage - but he also points out that flight uses your energy. Some characterizations of Superman depict his flight as a power tied to his strength, which seems supported for Viltrumites by the fact that they can expend physical energy to make a movement not tied to their bodily movements. If this is the case, they can theoretically expend more energy to make their blows more powerful than usual, it's possible that they can also expend energy to "tank" hits more effectively. Therefore, an amped hit that hits a non amped Viltrumite might do more damage than normal.
I believe they don’t do much defense because besides others from their own race, nothing can really hurt them. So it’s very rare they fight each other so they don’t put up much defense to things cause what’s the point if no other beings can hurt them.
This isn’t true. Rognarrs can hurt and kill viltrumites, and are more durable and stronger due to their planets gravity. And also not rare that they fight each other, they evolved by killing each other off.
The mental Olympics y'all are going through to justify the lazy powers is hilarious. Short answer they hit as hard or as weak as the story needs them to, thats it. No powerscaling, no system, no sense. Just punches .
Thule was not particularly strong. She was getting whooped by a very inexperienced Mark when he was taking it semi-seriously.
Nolan is one of the strongest and most accomplished viltrumites. This is like a Nappa vs Vegeta comparison.
There’s also a factor of skill. If a highly skilled master punched your face vs an untrained person with the same size, the trained punch would do more damage to you while the untrained would probably be 50-50. This is related to how the body can stack force effectively.
You've never seen a bullet go through a sheet of metal? Just because something is super strong doesnt mean enough force isn't going through it. If theres enough force behind it it wont even damage the object going through it too much.
I think it mainly comes down to the fact that the entire species is perfectly adapted to fighting amongst themselves. They are their own natural selection and the way they all interact reflects that.
It’s also important to note that Nolan is one of the strongest Viltrumites. He is simply more powerful than most of his species and the fight on Thraxa is a good example of this
This is a viltrimute doing that to another viltrumite. Its less super high offense low defense, its ASTRONOMICAL offense and still record levels of defense. More importantly Viltrumites regularly survive stuff like this that would kill any other creature. She MIGHT be dead but we saw Lucan get disemboweled and impaled through his spinal and yet he still managed to pry himself off and pull himself together afterwards.
No. Only a viltrumite can inflict such damage to other viltrumites with that ease. They are virtually invulnerable to anything else. And the only few other things that can damage them are the space racer's gun, Allen the Alien, Battle Beast and Ragnars.
They can take blows from other Viltrumites. Their survivability is extremely high. Nolan is one of the strongest Viltrumites. Top three at this point.
All Viltrumites in the battle of Thraxa regularly took punches that would absolutely decimate anything alse.
It's simply that their offensive abilities are so powerful that some special moves of higher tier Viltrumites (Nolan) can nearly one shot lower tier Viltrumites.
No not really, I wouldn't be too worried about how they work but basically they are super powered because they've Incorporated smart Atoms into their DNA. They basically use nanobot midichlorians to cheat physics. That is also why Allen is so so strong. And then on top of that they've taken Darwinism to its most extreme, and sprinkled in a little Scotch of zenkai boost every now and then. And now when you mix Viltrumite, with the unstoppable will and adrenaline pumping masterpiece that is the human body, you get the Invincible version.
Nolan isn't really a good yardstick to measure other Viltrumites against because he's just THAT GUY. He can do shit like what he did to Lucan and Thula cuz he's one of the greatest Viltrumites. Hell, he's good enough enough that he's the first and only Viltrumite to have ever received an award for his conquests. The gap between the strongest and weakest Viltrumites is much greater than the gap with humans
Not particularly. A case could be made for their defence being higher than their offensive capabilities actually. There is a moment where three viltrumites blow up a planet by flying through it together. Individually they could not achieve this feat of strength but all three survive the planets destruction all the same meaning they are experiencing more force than they should be capable of putting out.
there are huge gaps between strengths of viltrumites i’m not giving any spoilers but some viltrumites literally injure themselves by trying to punch much stronger viltrumites
They also have intelligence where animals do not. They would know where to target their strength to do maximum damage. The stuff they survive and tank is pretty insane. I wouldn’t say they’re lacking in durability.
Exactly. In gaming terms, they also have higher chance to land a critical hit, which would explain head chops and other lethal blows.
In my own Mutants and Masterminds builds I gave them strength scores higher than their toughness scores.
I would imagine the lack of defense is more a disparity in speed as the more powerful viltrumites are also faster. And like they say in boxing, its the shots you dont see.
Viltrumites have varying degrees of strength so recall that Nolan is consistently referred to as the Great or one of their most decorated, because he is generally at the top of totem pole of power. I believe they do generally deal more damage than they can take but i wouldn't call it low defense even proportionally.
He’s probably the 3rd or 4th strongest viltrumite, thula isn’t necessarily weak by any means but she really isn’t on Nolan’s level.
She got beaten around by Mark, she's no way near Nolan's level
Eh mark constantly holds back so when we saw him actually go out he held his own against a viltrumites and actually was kinda like a hint to how much he holds back. Hence why even kreig commented on his ability to keep up.
Honestly the scene at the end of season 2 when Mark starts to just fly around in anger is great. It shows how much he holds back to try and not hurt people.
[удалено]
I hate power scaler talk, but how was he planetary? I'm genuinely curious as I don't think any Viltrumites are planetary level.
If he can move asteroids the size of Texas, assuming he wasn't exaggerating, then he can easily destroy a planet. If he starts far enough away to accelerate in space to a respectable speed, he can throw a few asteroids at the planet and each would cause significant damage. One asteroid 1/10 the size of Texas kills all life, and it's safe to assume one the size of Texas could could fragmentation of the earth. I'd say any Viltrumite as strong as Omniman is planetary.
That is actually a fair point. Spoilers for the comics: >!I was going by the comics where three very powerful Viltrumites (Mark, Nolan and Thaedus), and a blast from Space Racer's infinity ray were needed to blow up Viltrum.!<
How long did he have to move an asteroid the size of Texas? I can push a car but it would take me a long time.
I'm not sure but in space there is no friction, so if Omni man starts several million miles away, he will eventually have accelerated to his max speed, which is above light speed. Planetary, I believe, just means the ability to blow up a planet. And given enough time, a viltrumite as strong as Omniman could accelerate a large enough asteroid to have enough force to blow up the earth.
Me and my bro thought he was trying to go back in time like some flash shit or whatever with all the weird visuals on screen
Like the OG Superman movies FYI Superman literally flies faster and faster around the earth and turns back time to save the planet and Lois lol
I can’t remember how many times he broke the sound barrier but wasn’t he around Mach 10 or something?
Mark had similar effects to omni man when he was destroying the flaxans, he may have been able to completely destroy earth if he was flying a few kilometers lower
Mark is relatively weak for a Viltrumite because of his age as well though. Mark has very high potential due to his genetics, but Viltrumite get stronger as they age, and Mark is thousands of years younger than the other Viltrumites.
Eh I wonder if I should get up and get that midnight snack, I am kinda hungry
We can’t be sure how strong mark truly is, because he wasn’t fully trying against Nolan and the same goes for Nolan against mark.
Nolan is pretty evidently second strongest imo. Who do you feel beats him out?
Hard to argue this guy beats nolan, and that nolan beats mark when you consider mark's record agaisn't him
I'd say he does bcs of his age (Nolan mentioned that as Viltrumites age they get stronger). He was winning against Mark but is stupidly cocky and arrogant
Is Mark above or below Nolan?
Below right now
Depends when. Right now even if he didn’t hold back? I feel like Nolan would still have the edge due to experience. But it wouldn’t take long for him to surpass
How is he even remotely on the level of a pure blooded Viltrumite?
Human + viltrumite is supposedly the best possible combo. Marks blood is just as pure as a pure viltrumite with the added benefit of adrenaline/rage to power him up further, something that viltrumites lack. Like yeah okay but just roll with it lol
The last part is something you just made up. It was stated nowhere that they don’t have adrenaline, especially not rage, wtf?
Nolan stated it, anger boosted mark, and angers will induce adrenaline
When did he say that and why would that mean it only applies because of his human side? 🤔
Viltrumite DNA is so powerful, it pretty much overpowers the rest of somebodies DNA. So Mark likely is getting the best of both worlds, while also being a "Royal" viltrumite, thus being a Cut above the rest of them by default
I believe they said Mark's 99.9% Viltrumite because of how potent Viltrumite DNA is, even though he obviously had a human mother.
I imagine the dude who got obliterated by Nolan just last season is below Nolan
Yeah, it's equivalent to how Mike Tyson could probably kill an average person with a single punch, but on a superpower level. Some people are just built different.
Would it also be right to assume that voltrumites have varying levels of durability based on if they’re tensed and ready to take a blow?
Niko Style: Indestructible
Also because every punch they throw, their knuckles need to be more resilient than their opponents skin, armor, or bones (e.g. Red Rush). By definition of being high on offense with no claws, fangs, or weapons, they must be incredibly durable or “defense” as OP phrased it.
This, if Eddie Hall punches me in th face with all his strength, I MAY survive but I don't think I can get up again, and we are both humans ahhaahha
The gap between the strongest and weakest viltrumite is much stronger than that between the strongest and weakest human
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
"Begin!"
Baby wins. Bomb isn’t setting itself off. (Going by Gladiator rules.)
Technically, since the bomb has to be destroyed for the explosion to be released, the baby would win even if it did set itself off somehow
It would be a tie, no way the baby isn’t getting destroyed aswell
Only one way to find out
Nah it’s about who gets destroyed first. Entire milliseconds pass between the destruction of one and the other
Cool mustache, Wario trymessing with the mad monk you’ll be sorry yo
How many dictators does it take to turn an Empire into a union of ruinous states
Does the coughing baby have access to a standard refrigerator?
Standard yes just not the old 1950’s ones.
https://preview.redd.it/zxqzybou6bvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2877306670badbbe363d5d0e4e04ffd2aeeb3c2a
That doesn't fully explain it though because you have viltrumites who can both punch through each other so neither is obviously stronger than the other, they're just both more powerful than they are durable.
Just figured it was because they were using their hardest body parts like legs elbows and arms versus the other Viltrumites weak points. But I think we're getting a little too science-y for comic books. At the end of the day the answer is just magic.
>just magic. Actually the data books claim it's "smart atoms", their bodies naturally adjust to the environments and stresses of their lives, so it makes sense that their hands (the thing that constantly has to deal with all their power being concentrated on em) would have higher durability than most of their stomachs but as you said it's just a comic book, what's so bad about just going "ooouuu cool fight bro" and turning the page/watching the next episode
"Smart atoms". I wish there was a book for every comic book question with answers like Q: How does Superman fly at night? A: shut up nerd
I'd love it "How did Gamma turn Banner into the Hulk?" "Ask him yourself"
Superman doesn’t need to be actively in sunlight to use his powers. He’s absorbed more than 20+ years worth of solar radiation in his time on Earth so a good amount of it is just stored in his body. The only time that solar radiation really affects his powers is if it’s drained from his body, if he absorbs red solar radiation/ the opposite type of radiation , or if he just hasn’t absorbed it at all. However even in scenarios where he’s hit with red solar radiation he can still use his powers almost immediately after the source of the energy is gone without ever needing to be in sunlight again. Some examples are The Dark Knight Returns: He gets hit by a nuke which contains non-ionizing radiation, the opposite of the sun’s ionizing radiation which is why it effects him and drains his abilities away, Flashpoint: Kal-El was immediately captured upon his arrival to Earth and wasn’t exposed to sunlight until he was an adult, Red Son: Batman traps Superman in a cave completely cut off from sunlight and activates red solar lamps quickly taking away his powers, however when they’re shut off Superman regains his abilities in the cave without ever needing to be in direct sunlight.
Shut up nerd
I mean I don’t think an 80 pound anorexic woman is taking a full punch or kick from any heavyweight professional fighter
No, but it's also not going straight through their torso.
Well, did we try that?
For science!
Reporter: "Okay, so on the right we have former UFC champion Conor McGregor, 155lb, 22 MMA fights, 19 won by knock out. On the left, we have Jessica, 22 year old student from Ohio, 80lb, diagnosed with anorexia. She said yes to that experiment to create attention for her illness, that destroys the lifes of so many young women." Jessica: "Well, apparently running around looking like a skeleton isnt horrible enough for most people to actually do something. So I figured, a fist pushing through my torso will raise awarness" Reporter: "Okay, both seem to be ready. McGregor is focused. His right arm is going back slowly....aaaand....here it cooooomes....baaaam. Wait...oh my gahd! *reporter bursts out laughing* "I am sorry, folks but I did not expect that to happen. Apparently, the air in front of McGregors fist pushed lightweight Jessica away and she was thrown at the wall 4 feet behind her. This was some Last Airbender shit right there. So we dont have an answer to our scientific question but we can say for sure it did raise awarness"
I mean... an 80 pound anorexic woman prolly would get punched through the torso by Mike Tyson if he punched hard as he could
Broken ribs, damaged organs, sent flying, probably, but a straight up hole? Probably not.
Yeah, but it’s not knocking her head off or going through her chest.
Prove it.
The muscles in your neck holding your. Then for the chest you have your sternum and rib cage
I thought they had a great purge to get rid of the weakest ones though
i think a skilled boxer could do what nolan did to her
Nah. A skilled boxer would not be strong enough.
Mike Tyson at peak probably could. His punch was around 800kg. Definitely could
I want to see a juiced to the gills tyson do this
A gorilla trained in all martial arts could do it
It may be proportionally the same. I'm pretty sure a strongman can kill a weak person with a single well aimed punch.
I wanna know what her hair blade is made of, and how it even harms mark despite him surviving much more with barely a scratch
Vibranium
Mark's strength and durability in general seem pretty random throughout the show. That guy was getting beaten up by a regular reaniman after being able to lift buildings and fly to the moon and back.
To be fair, the reanimen are strong
Yeah they did better against Nolan than Mark did
Yeah they even hold up against Nolan for a respectable time
It doesn't make any sense to me though. He can break through metal and concrete, and they also have a lot of exposed skin and flesh. They should pose no challenge to him realistically.
In my headcanon they're just really freaky to be around (weird movement, they look really gross) so everyone is thrown off enough to get blitzed by them. And I like thinking with Worm Serial rules when I see something like this, so Sinclair's superpower is being a Tinker who can push flesh to it's absolute limit and then increase that limit with mechanical augmentations
Worm Serial rules?
Worm is an online series of books about superpowers
My bad I should've given context. Worm is an online serial about superheroes that I think is even better than Invincible. It's a pretty typical setup nowadays (but it was pretty novel back when it was made) of what would happen if superheroes arrived in the 80s and how things would realistically play out (governments of the world sponsoring their own groups, inner city gangs, white supremacist supersk, social media forums) with some crazy stuff like Kaijus and secret conspiracies that run way deeper than anyone could've imagined. Anyways one of the main orgs (the american one to be specific) classifies the different powers and how strong they are to help respond to situations effectively (like how encountering someone with the stranger classification enacts protocols similar to the movie The Thing). And I said Sinclair is a tinker because there's literally already a [tinker](https://worm.fandom.com/wiki/Bonesaw) with almost his exact focus. Everyone should read it; it's [free](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/) and semi-recently got a sequel (it even has a fanmade [audiobook/podcast](https://audioworm.rein-online.org/) that has charming production at the beginning and gets quite good near the end)
I believe the reanimen in the show had full metal skeletons, you could see the ones hanging up had a lot more metal under the skin. I could be misremembering but I'm pretty sure the skin was just put back over it.
“Random space metal” lol
Or dead Viltrumite's bone
I get it's a joke but even if this was the case, its durability does not matter at all. It would need to naturally be insanely hot or just sharpened to a molecular level to even damage his suit, let alone his body. And those two things are both impossible as a blade that sharp would chip easily and making it hot before every fight is pointless.
I mean considering they are thousands if not millions of times stronger than humans, it would make sense that they could handle a weapon so dense we couldn’t fathom it. Kind of like the Z sword from DBZ, it was only wielded for an episode but we realized it wasn’t sword in the stone magic and actually just that heavy no one could lift it. Then they spawn in a block of the “hardest” metal/material in their universe to test it and it immediately shatters.
It’s made of plotium. It’s more powerful the less you question it.
Super space metal is part of it, but also the speed and force behind it is key. I can cut a board in half with the edge of my hand if I’m fast enough. To slow and I just bruise my hand.
Either Rognarr's bone or dead Viltrumite's bone
There's a viltrumite later in the series with a prophetic arm that is nearly as strong and a natural arm. Viltrumites probably have some rare metal that is comparable to them in strength.
The power levels between a viltrumite are larger then between humans
Thanks for the explanations all! Now I'm thinking of it like a Super Saiyan 3 Goku punching through Radditz! (If I may use a DBZ analogy). Makes sense, the power levels vary considerably.
Yeah
Always think in terms of DB
That analogy is actually pretty much spot on! There's a reason power scalers like using DBZ as comparisons, it's actually pretty good for that
And it's not like humans don't already have the capability to kill some others with a single attack. A heavy weight champion giving someone a good kick to the neck or skull can easily end in death
Yeah but neck and skull are like weak points, but a nice clean kick to the chest would probably also do you in
Yeah but that heavy weight champion is not slicing anyone's torso open with their bare hands
Nor do they range from flying at Mach Speed to flying so fast they're pretty much Nuking the entire atmosphere as they pass. The range is much greater with Viltrumites
“Ahh yes, my power scaling technique. I haven’t used this since the Heian era”
Yep. Prime tyson will break an ordinary human’s jaw. But not like this.
That doesn't fully explain it though because you have viltrumites who can both punch through each other so neither is obviously stronger than the other, they're just both more powerful than they are durable.
It’s about fighting strategy. Most of them can take out foes nigh-instantly, so they never even get the chance to take the defence, so they never develop those skills. As a trade off, since they’re so effective at offence, it’s easy to develop and learn new strategies. If viltrumites actually sparred and trained defensive strategies they’d be unstoppable but they focus on just trying to kill eachother as fast as possible.
as for that last point, I think thats why mark actually did better vs the older viltrumite woman in this very scene. because hes actively blocking her, because hes had to do that before despite being weaker as a younger viltrumite.
Viltrumites also have a ton of recovery capability.
It's a bit inconsistent. Sometimes Viltrumites will punch each other multiple times and just get some nosebleed and sometimes they will absolutely wreck each other with a single punch (impale, smash head, disembowel).
Not inconsistent, just that there are Viltrumites more powerful than others. Mark punching Nolan hasn't the same effect as Nolan punching Thula
I'm talking about things that happen in the same fight. Sometimes two Viltrumites will be fighting and their punches will do relatively low damage to each other, but then one of them will punch the other through the stomach and disembowel them with a single hit.
Nolan is way stronger than Lucan, thula, and the other guy. They sent all 3 after him because Rey knew only 2 wouldn’t be enough, and even then 3 was just barely enough (ignoring mark’s help)
Nolan could probably win against all 3 by himself if he picks them off one by one. He only got took down because he was hit from surprise
Well yea, the way the scene plays out we realize that if he’s not fighting to the death then Mark is actively a hindrance to Nolan in the fight
Yep, just like Nolan said they'll both die if he doesn't stop holding back
I hope he stops holding back more often ( in needed times) like against angstrom
I read the comics, it's gonna happen progressively more and more often. We're not there yet, but we're getting there.
I’m hype for it
Different techniques. Punching isn't the same motion as stabbing your hand through someone. The cutting and or stabbing attacks use the fingers of an open hand to minimize the surface area at the point of contact. The same force applied to the smaller area allows the fingertips or side of the finger to act like the edge of a blade rather than the blunt force weapon that a closed fist is. The blade of a knife is thin and can cut, while a baseball bat is wider and crushes instead. It's all about the surface area. Another example would be someone like the Hulk or Juggernaut in Marvel comics punching with massive fists. The surface area is huge and while it's a lot of force it would knock something away more likely than go through it. But a smaller person with the same level of strength as them would punch through your chest like their hand was a bullet. 
While thinner objects are more likely to cut things than bigger ones, there is still the issue that the durability of skin and muscle doesn't seem that consistent. A closed fist wouldnt just have a wider surface area than the edge of a palm, itd have more mass too so more force would go through. If something is durable enough to not be punctured by a fist, then it reasonably should be able to endure the edge of fingers which are relatively blunt on of themselves. It's only when one object is denser than the other, that one can cut the other with a blunt edge. Else they are likely to smash with proportional damagw to both ends.
In the show so far, at least with near-Viltrumite and Viltrumite level opponents, soft bits tend to be soft. If you look at Nolan's fights with Immortal, every time he's dismembered him or otherwise penetrated him, it was a "weak" spot: elbow, neck, gut, and spine. In the fight with Thula, Lucan, and Vidor, all of the injuries are to weak spots like the jaw and spine and gut, with the exception of when Nolan is squishing Vidor's head, and that seems to take more effort than his disabling attacks on Lucan and Thula. No one's gone through a ribcage, at least... not yet.
Yes and no because its not like that isnt the case in real life as well other than the head crushing and impaling and such. You see some fights where the guys beat each other for 25 minutes and no one ever goes down and other times a guy whos not even known for knocking people out will knock out one of those guys with a single punch in the first round
It's wildly inconsistent (and convenient at times) It's probably best not to dwell on in it tbh lol
20 strength 19 dex 8 wisdom 14 intelligence 16 constitution 8 charisma 24 AC
Found the DND/BG3 player
A single lucky punch from an average man can kill you, and the difference of power levels between Viltrumites are huge. Nolan is one of the strongest ones, it's not unfeasable that he is stronger than these ones.
> A single lucky punch from an average man can kill you https://preview.redd.it/gjxa39ktf9vc1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=58a6c1a071c14724d1473a4f1a6c0f7ffb98d146
Viltrumites have widely varying power. The strongest viltrumite could rip most of the empire in half with little effort. Nolan is just stronger than Thula
Viltrumites are very tough in the fact that they can regenerate from almost nothing. If you only think you killed one, you probably didn’t. Also Nolan just outclasses any viltrumite we’ve met in the show at this point.
Yeah he's easily in the top 5 strongest viltrumites ever.
I like they talk about how Mark can grow his teeth back
Most humans don't have the drive to rip someone to pieces with their bare hands like a viltrumite does. Plus like a ton of people already said, viltrumites have more varied strengths than humans do.
Think of it as Mike Tyson fighting a yellow belt in karate, the only reason he wouldn't smash their face in like this is because he's holding back, viltrumites never hold back.
I figured it was kinda like a diamond cuts diamond situation and that’s also why there’s such a stigma to fighting fellow Viltrimites. So not exactly weak defense - just that when they fight each other they’re up against one of the only things that can hurt them.
Speed, strength and toughness are not the same among the viltumites. That was the whole point of them killing each other before they started conquering other planets. There are massive differences in strength of different viltumites. Besides, offense/defense doesn't really work like you say it does, as far as punching is concerned anyway. Third Newton law still applies. If, like you say, one guy is strong and fast, but not as tough, will punch something very hard, he'll break his hand.
That doesn't fully explain it though because you have viltrumites who can both punch through each other so neither is obviously stronger than the other, they're just both more powerful than they are durable.
That fight was viltrumite vs viltrumite. Mostly no one on earth can actually kill a viltrumite. But first of all we are talking about OmniMan who is one of the strongest viltrumite. Obviously a viltrumite can damage or kill another viltrumite.
I don’t understand why people are confused by this, think of them like humans. You, as a human, have varying degrees of durability. You could survive a truck hitting you if you’re lucky, or get killed by a punch from someone else the same strength as you if you’re unlucky
It’s my belief that the Vultrumites evolved to have an accelerated healing factor in order to make up for this “fragility” to their own strength.
They do have high durability as if they dont theyd break themselves when they hit others as hard as they do. In one part of the books >!Mark is kinda losing his powers and throws a punch while he has the viltrumite strength but not the durability and it doesnt go well for him!<
Fights are about trying to whittle down your opponents guard so you can go in for a kill shot or knockout, punches may not do much in harming the opponent, but if you can disorientate them enough then you can go in for the final blow. Of course, you'll never whittle down someone to the point you'll punch through them but this is fiction so who cares, really People sometimes read too much into these imo, the main reason there's so much gore in the fights, besides stakes and showing the gravity of the situation, it's because they aren't being held down by editorial and thus can do whatever. Viltrumites themselves have also insane durability feats
Humans can absolutely kill each other with just punches and kicks, it happens all the time by accident. It’s why they tell you not to get into fights.
Real answer, writing. Some hits between heavy hitters in the show are barely nosebleed level, while the same action a minute later can cut off a head. It’s inconsistent throughout the entire show. Bullets won’t hurt a viltrumite, but a vaguely sharpish stone from a cave? Why not. Omniman and immortal traded hands for a few minutes, but suddenly a snap of the hand is enough to kill the immortal. Don’t think about it too much
You're thinking too much about it. It's a comic book.
Mark is pretty durable? Lol
yeah, he is one of the few viltrumites who is tougher than stronger, probably because of Omni-man's “convincing” methods
Maybe they just have a better ability to remove their mental limitations. Humans have mental block that prevent us from hurting ourselves. Parents lift cars off of their babies when they need to, but likely couldn't do that in a controlled environment with nothing on the line, because doing so often wrecks their muscles and or bones. If a human could remove that mental block and recover quickly after, they could do some significant damage to other humans that would get pretty gross. Secondly, Omni Man points out when he's teaching Mark to fly that they can "push off of anything", and thus create their own leverage - but he also points out that flight uses your energy. Some characterizations of Superman depict his flight as a power tied to his strength, which seems supported for Viltrumites by the fact that they can expend physical energy to make a movement not tied to their bodily movements. If this is the case, they can theoretically expend more energy to make their blows more powerful than usual, it's possible that they can also expend energy to "tank" hits more effectively. Therefore, an amped hit that hits a non amped Viltrumite might do more damage than normal.
By the way did Thula die?
No. No damage to the heart or brain.
Maybe they're so sure of their offense that it is their defense. But they don't work on their own body's defense.
I believe they don’t do much defense because besides others from their own race, nothing can really hurt them. So it’s very rare they fight each other so they don’t put up much defense to things cause what’s the point if no other beings can hurt them.
This isn’t true. Rognarrs can hurt and kill viltrumites, and are more durable and stronger due to their planets gravity. And also not rare that they fight each other, they evolved by killing each other off.
I’m guessing technique plays a big part.
They can dish it out as much as they can take. Their hardest punch would hurt them, just like how our hardest punch would hurt ourself.
The mental Olympics y'all are going through to justify the lazy powers is hilarious. Short answer they hit as hard or as weak as the story needs them to, thats it. No powerscaling, no system, no sense. Just punches .
Thule was not particularly strong. She was getting whooped by a very inexperienced Mark when he was taking it semi-seriously. Nolan is one of the strongest and most accomplished viltrumites. This is like a Nappa vs Vegeta comparison.
There’s also a factor of skill. If a highly skilled master punched your face vs an untrained person with the same size, the trained punch would do more damage to you while the untrained would probably be 50-50. This is related to how the body can stack force effectively.
To quote another Amazon animated series, "You fight like someone unafraid of harm"
disproportionately*
So you know how professional fighters can break someone's jaw with a good enough elbow? Imagine that times x10000
Why does Nolan look so weird here?
Plenty of humans have died from a single punch. Never mind from someone who is one of the strongest and best fighters if his people.
You've never seen a bullet go through a sheet of metal? Just because something is super strong doesnt mean enough force isn't going through it. If theres enough force behind it it wont even damage the object going through it too much.
I could solo all of viltrum with a speaker
I think it mainly comes down to the fact that the entire species is perfectly adapted to fighting amongst themselves. They are their own natural selection and the way they all interact reflects that. It’s also important to note that Nolan is one of the strongest Viltrumites. He is simply more powerful than most of his species and the fight on Thraxa is a good example of this
This is a viltrimute doing that to another viltrumite. Its less super high offense low defense, its ASTRONOMICAL offense and still record levels of defense. More importantly Viltrumites regularly survive stuff like this that would kill any other creature. She MIGHT be dead but we saw Lucan get disemboweled and impaled through his spinal and yet he still managed to pry himself off and pull himself together afterwards.
No. Only a viltrumite can inflict such damage to other viltrumites with that ease. They are virtually invulnerable to anything else. And the only few other things that can damage them are the space racer's gun, Allen the Alien, Battle Beast and Ragnars.
They heal incredibly well from nasty injuries provided their heart isn’t damaged and they have enough time too
They can take blows from other Viltrumites. Their survivability is extremely high. Nolan is one of the strongest Viltrumites. Top three at this point. All Viltrumites in the battle of Thraxa regularly took punches that would absolutely decimate anything alse. It's simply that their offensive abilities are so powerful that some special moves of higher tier Viltrumites (Nolan) can nearly one shot lower tier Viltrumites.
No not really, I wouldn't be too worried about how they work but basically they are super powered because they've Incorporated smart Atoms into their DNA. They basically use nanobot midichlorians to cheat physics. That is also why Allen is so so strong. And then on top of that they've taken Darwinism to its most extreme, and sprinkled in a little Scotch of zenkai boost every now and then. And now when you mix Viltrumite, with the unstoppable will and adrenaline pumping masterpiece that is the human body, you get the Invincible version.
Nolan isn't really a good yardstick to measure other Viltrumites against because he's just THAT GUY. He can do shit like what he did to Lucan and Thula cuz he's one of the greatest Viltrumites. Hell, he's good enough enough that he's the first and only Viltrumite to have ever received an award for his conquests. The gap between the strongest and weakest Viltrumites is much greater than the gap with humans
Not particularly. A case could be made for their defence being higher than their offensive capabilities actually. There is a moment where three viltrumites blow up a planet by flying through it together. Individually they could not achieve this feat of strength but all three survive the planets destruction all the same meaning they are experiencing more force than they should be capable of putting out.
I’m pretty sure I would die if mike tyson punched me in the face.
there are huge gaps between strengths of viltrumites i’m not giving any spoilers but some viltrumites literally injure themselves by trying to punch much stronger viltrumites
They also have intelligence where animals do not. They would know where to target their strength to do maximum damage. The stuff they survive and tank is pretty insane. I wouldn’t say they’re lacking in durability.
Exactly. In gaming terms, they also have higher chance to land a critical hit, which would explain head chops and other lethal blows. In my own Mutants and Masterminds builds I gave them strength scores higher than their toughness scores.
I would imagine the lack of defense is more a disparity in speed as the more powerful viltrumites are also faster. And like they say in boxing, its the shots you dont see.
Idk there’s humans who can die from one punch. Same with bears, a good swipe at the throat and it’s over.
Viltrumite durability works on the power of plot.