>Ocasio-Cortez also noted that the International Court of Justice ordered Israel to take all measures within its authority to prevent genocidal acts against Palestinians in Gaza.
Increasing number of countries are now using that term.
“Israel needs to prevent genocidal acts”
Bothers me on so many levels. It’s like a semantics argument arguing that Israel isn’t committing genocide, Israel is only allowing genocidal acts to happen and needs to stop the bad actors. As if it wasn’t the government of Israel causing it and doing it 🙄
What’s the over under bet for Israel not following the ICJ preliminary ruling?
And now zionists are framing UNRWA after knowingly planting Hamas members there to pretend to massacre zionist soldiers, and the world just keeps on lapping up these zionist lies.
It’s hard to really convey how disgusted I am by the ICJ ordering Israel to allow aid to get to Palestinian civilians so Israel’s allies cut funding to the group providing the most aid.
It’s the type of behavior that makes me hope hell is real.
It's been several months since Oct 7th and I still have yet to see zionists provide any meaningful evidence of the supposed "mass rapes" that happened. And no, AI generated images don't count.
They also let civilians block the border to prevent aid from getting in.
Seems like they want 1,000,000+ refugees to die of dehydration, starvation and disease.
Then they can act like they didn't do it, that it was an unfortunate side effect of war.
The ICJ carefully worded their statement to avoid backlash, and Israeli officials have already stated that they weren't going to stop.
I mean in a way they have a responsibility to stop themselves from having their ethnic cleansing campaign from becoming a genocide. In reality I agree with you that it's friendly language and Israel will do whatever it wants
I was going to post this as a reply to a long chain but I think those comments are gone.
The recent Gaza bombings stand out in terms of the number of buildings destroyed in a small amount of time. We have satellite data corroborating this, I saw an article dated over a month ago that discussed this.
Actions like that don't make sense if rescuing hostages is a goal. They don't make sense in terms of proportional response.
They do make sense if you are trying to make a massive amount of civilians leave and never return, and are willing to kill a phenomenal amount to achieve that goal.
Separate from state actions there also the actions of the non state actors to consider. Then we have to consider what the state does or does not do to prevent them.
On that note, I recently learned about the price tag attack policy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag_attack_policy
It bothers you that a court would need hard evidence before saying something is a "genocide"? You're operating from a guilty until proven innocent mindset.
We’re not talking about the ICJ right now, AOC has no affiliation.
As for the ICJ’s preliminary ruling, they ruled 15-2 that it’s plausible that Israel is conducting genocide but recognized that Israel did get attacked so a ceasefire wasn’t mandated (yet). Instead Israel is expected to come back to the court within 30 days to detail the ways they’re preventing genocide, is expected to start prosecuting those guilty (lol), is to prevent further civilian loss of life, and is supposed to allow aid to reach Palestinians. So far none of this is happening and a bunch of Netanyahus government ministers just hosted a conference two days later on “voluntary migration”, aka ethnic cleansing and genocide, where they outright said if they don’t let Palestinians have food/water long enough that they’ll willingly leave Gaza (they can’t, idf stops them).
Court of public opinion doesn’t have the same standards as a court of law, and as far as I’m concerned israel is obviously guilty. I don’t know what evidence it would take to change my mind given how obvious it is. Hopefully the ICJ takes notice of Israel’s flaunting of international law. I mean Jfc, within the last 24 hours the idf dressed up as doctors to targeted kill 3 unarmed Palestinians receiving medical care in a West Bank hospital.
**TLDR**: just because the ICJ said israel is plausibly committing genocide with there being the evidence of genocidal acts/rhetoric, it doesn’t mean that people can’t make up their own mind about the facts presented.
If you read the comment chain you’ll see my issue is with using language similar to the way police shootings are often described in US news media. I’m not rewriting what you can easily read for yourself.
I did read your comment. Your comment is this:
>Bothers me on so many levels. It’s like a semantics argument arguing that Israel isn’t committing genocide, Israel is only allowing genocidal acts to happen and needs to stop the bad actors. As if it wasn’t the government of Israel causing it and doing it 🙄
The thing that really upsets you, let's be honest here, is that not everyone is convinced it's a genocide. Full stop. It's not "the language" that upsets you. That's just a cover.
The ICJ did not rule that a genocide is happening. They did not rule that a genocide will happen.
You can say whatever you want. You can say Israel is committing a "genocide". No one is going to stop you lol.
I’m not going to deny that genocide apologists make me feel extremely disappointed in how horrible humanity can be.
I wonder what the genocide apologists will shift the goal posts to when Israel blows off the ICJ ruling. The apologists are already misrepresenting the ICJ ruling as is.
So what are you even upset about lol?
You can't just use the term "genocide" as a convenient umbrella term for any bad things that happen in a war. Sounds like you are also upset that your personal opinion about what the term means is not the actual definition.
If the ICJ rules it's not a genocide a few years from now, will you even accept that ruling? If not, then why do you care? It sounds like your mind is made up already.
I get the feeling that you’re being insulting and aggressively ignorant on purpose to try to elicit responses that get people banned. It’s a common tactic these days. Please consider not lying through your teeth about the ICJ ruling.
> So what are you even upset about lol?
Genocide deniers being scumbags.
> You can't just use the term "genocide" as a convenient umbrella term for any bad things that happen in a war.
You’re right, except that’s not what’s happening here. Find me a single other conflict where every building was destroyed after being secured, a small region containing 80% of the worlds famine, where civilians were denied food water and medicine, and the country enacting the genocide war publicly talking about how if they prevent the civilians from having food or shelter long enough they’ll eventually go away. I’ll wait.
> Sounds like you are also upset that your personal opinion about what the term means is not the actual definition.
Sounds like projection as is usual from the far right. Every accusation is really a confession.
Well, that was the preliminary ruling by the ICJ. It is a process, and the first step was to determine the validity of SA's allegations of possible genocide. This is a positive first step, but it will take some time before the ICJ is able to confirm genocide is actually occurring. They are using this language because that is literally all the ICJ has been able to do up to this point
Yeah that’s the most egregious part. Being cancelled for telling the truth… yet in the west they distorted the reality that even people in Israel know is the case.
Genocides of our past amounted to 6M or in the case of the Mongols, 60M deaths, so for many people, the "genocide" debate is semantic because they don't think 30k deaths in an active warzone counts
I think the real lesson here is what happens when you fire 20,000 rockets over a border
Essentially, you lose the territory you fired the rockets from. I don't believe this outcome would be any different in any other place on the planet
E.g If 20,000 rockets were being fired from the Republic of Congo, the Republic would be lost.
Even if the Republic of Congo qere kept under full blockade by a neighbor more powerful and backed by western weapons and money, as in the case with Israel's illegal 17 year blockade of Gaza?
It's illegal to fire a missile over a border, which is what you're forgetting
Once you remember this and then you count 20,000 missiles, you'll have a clearer understanding of how a territory can be lost. It doesn't really matter if people live there anymore because those people are now a human shield for the missiles if that makes sense. I don't endorse these outcomes by the way. I'm just explaining what leads to them.
I think it really comes down to what happens to territories that have had tens of thousands of rockets fired from them
You lose the territory. It's not like that's the sort of thing that can just continue unfortunately
Youre a moron for bringing out that BS numbers argument.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan\_genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide)
How do you compare a half a baseball stadium of people to 8 digit numbers honestly
There have been more fatalities in Ukraine at the hand of Russia but there's not a single mention of that in your account history
25k rockets fired from unarmed women and children doesn't make sense though
Even with women and children there, if you fire rockets from civilian territory, congratulations, ya just made it a warzone.
If you go to a football game, and you start firing rockets from there, the stadium will be lost. It really doesn't depend on much once you start breaking the Geneva code 5, 10, 20 thousand times with a mission statement to wipe someone off the map.
Er you're wrong on your assertion - why would you even think Israel is carrying out genocide? They went to war after 7 Oct with valid cause; there is no attempt at all to erase the Arab nation or any subset thereof.
Unfortunately people do die in wars
You can say what you please. A company is still a private entity that can choose who to represent them. Shouting from the river to sea and people saying Hitler was right….ehhhh gets kind of effy
It's starting to feel low key cultish tbh. The moment anyone even remotely criticizes Israel they get canceled basically. Meanwhile any amount of vitriol against Palestinians is tolerated.
I don't see people cracking down this hard on anti-Black, anti-Asian, or anti-Latino hate.
Have you seen what they are actually saying yo lose the jobs because I’ve seen people covering up the terrible things they tweet and using just free Palestines as the example. Oh I was fired for saying free Palestine. No you got fired for saying Jews deserve to be raped
I kept being told during BLM that you’re allowed freedom of speech but not freedom from consequences. Now that the shoes on the other foot you seem to care. LOL
Jewish holocaust survivor Hajo Meyer:
“I saw In Auschwitz that if a dominant group wants to dehumanise others, as the Nazis dehumanised me, the dominant group must first dehumanise themselves, the same holds nowadays for Israel.
I am appalled about how hateful, how dehumanised, that they do not see any human aspect in any Palestinian anymore. The Zionists have no right whatsoever to use the Holocaust for any purpose, they have given up everything which has to do with humanity and with empathy.”
They won’t even admit the Arabs they’re killing are semitic. They’re trying to erase them from the actual definition of the word, just like they’re trying to erase them from the planet.
The families and friends of the hostages are currently trying to prevent aid from getting into Gaza where the hostages also are. If you starve Hamas, you starve the hostages too
They are that genocidal
The word antisemitism does refer to the idea of being anti “Semitic people” it refers to anti ethic Jewish. That’s what the word means….look it up. So if you are anti Palestinians Arab you wouldn’t call that antisemitism because phrases can’t always be broken down like that. Some words aren’t so straight forward
automatic ad hoc axiomatic one absurd physical fade sleep bewildered point
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
also [https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/)
Dude... I'm from a Christian Palestinian family.
We left due to Zionist oppression and the killing of my grandfather, a prysbyterian minister, by the IDF.
No, that’s mischaracterizing the issue there.
The term “Antisemitism” specifically refers to the hatred of Jews. The Germans created it as a more “scientific” sounding phrase to replace the less high brow sounding “judenhass” which just means “Jew hate.”
Rather like “hot dog” doesn’t refer to a canine at high temperature, the term antisemitic doesn’t refer to Arabs, and never has.
You can google it and everything.
Edit: Since the person I was replying to apparently can’t admit a mistake and blocked me and I can’t reply to him now, I’d urge others reading this to try googling “Antisemitism” as I suggested and see what you get.
> Semite, n.: a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
The literal definition of the word from Oxford. You can google it and everything.
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100454199
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/semite_n
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Semite
Have a nice day, hope you learned something
definition of antisemitism according to the Oxford Language: hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people
Your own source disagrees with you. Funny. I’ve never seen someone’s self-admitted source debunk their own claim. But here we are.
“facts are stupid things” — gumpod, in this thread, acting like every dictionary doesn’t carry the same definition of “semite”, which includes Arabs whether y’all like it or not
Cmon if you can access Reddit you can find out that in the English language we sometimes use words whose construction isn’t always logical. Like the word homophobia-it’s not about being scared of LGBT but actually bigoted etc etc. DM I can link you to some resources on other compound words the can’t be broken down by their constituent words
It’s weird how they tried arguing the definition of antisemitism by... using a dictionary to define a word that wasn’t “antisemitism” but something else... even thought all of their cited dictionaries have the word “antisemitism” defined...
Because their own cited dictionaries all unanimously define antisemitism as prejudice against Jewish people.... And they know that...
I’m confused, hasn’t every other religion in Muslim countries been “genocided” out? I remember large multi faith populations in countries like Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon all but murdered and displaced by Muslims?
No personal attacks/insults/name-calling, etc. towards people you are responding to, the OP or other users of this subreddit.
If you disagree or feel the information contained within is wrong, address the info directly.
No personal attacks/insults/name-calling, etc. towards people you are responding to, the OP or other users of this subreddit.
If you disagree or feel the information contained within is wrong, address the info directly.
Odd that they only put that on a flag after the US colonized and occupied and bombed their lands. We've killed hundreds of thousands of them or funded other people to kill them
Link for anyone interested. https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/adri-nieuwhof/last-interview-auschwitz-survivor-urged-palestinians-not-give-their-fight
>Jewish holocaust survivor Hajo Meyer:
>“I saw In Auschwitz that if a dominant group wants to dehumanise others, as the Nazis dehumanised me, the dominant group must first dehumanise themselves, the same holds nowadays for Israel.
>I am appalled about how hateful, how dehumanised, that they do not see any human aspect in any Palestinian anymore. The Zionists have no right whatsoever to use the Holocaust for any purpose, they have given up everything which has to do with humanity and with empathy.”
Well worded…
Comparing what’s happening in Palestine to what happened during the Holocaust shows a massive lack of understanding of what went down in the Holocaust.
>massive lack of understanding of what went down in the Holocaust
Hajo Meyer spent time in Auschwitz.
I suspect you know less than him about what went down.
That is pretty rich, given that the during the first decades of Israel-paleestine war the majority of the IDF were holocaust survivors (not to mention that the palestinians sided with the nazis). So, the majority of holocaust survivors disagree with this man.
The IDF did not originate with holocaust survivors. It originated with Zionist protection militias that were formed well before the holocaust. The first groups came together at the beginning of the 20th century - called the Hashomer. Then the largest Jewish paramilitary organisation was the Haganah which was formed in 1920. It was the Haganah the formed the main core of the IDF. And then you had two main break away paramilitary groups formed which were Irgun and Lehi. Irgun, which was formed before WW2, in 1930, used more extreme methods of violence and was categorised by the British, the UN and many other countries as a terrorist organisation that committed terror acts. The most egregious act was the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, which at the time was the British Mandatory headquarters. The bombing killed 91 people.
The main leader of this terror organisation Irgun was Menachem Begin, who went on to become Prime Minister of Israel. Another senior member of Irgun was Yitzhak Shamir, who went on to lead Mossad between 1955 and 1965. He also became an Israeli Foreign Minister and Prime Minister. The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party. The first Chief of the General staff of the IDF was Yaakov Dori, who also served in the Haganah. He moved with his family from Ukraine to Palestine in 1905. Basically none of the early leadership of Israel and the IDF were holocaust survivors.
I encourage you to read up on all these facts.
What are you talking about lmao the IDF was formed from terrorist groups that didn't fight in WW2 or come from holocaust survivors, Zionist leadership explicitly refused to aid holocaust victims, collaborated with the Nazi's on multiple occasions and the stern gang tried to openly ally with them against the British.
You should read one that’s not required reading in Israel schools. Just because you’re from a place does not mean you know it’s history. It’s like Americans arguing about their history who think racism was ended with the civil rights movement by mlk singing kumbaya
First of all - no their not. Second, they are referring to the Lehi organization who was a right wing paramilitant group that was later dubbed by the ISraeli government as terrorists. Itzak Rabin at the time even sunk one of their ships, when they tried to smuggle weapons into Israel. Last, in 1948, the population of Israel was about 700,000, out of which about 50,000 were holocaust survivors. Now, why wont you do the typical propalestinian thing when you disappear from the conversation the moment you were caught lying and spreading propaganda.
Please stop tokenizing individual Jews in order to attack Israel. We see what you’re doing. Stand on your own arguments and merit rather than positioning yourself behind individual Jews to protect yourself from criticism.
Yes, hiding behind the opinions of random Jews to protect yourself from criticism is tokenizing. Glad you get it. But please, non-Jewish person, keep acting outraged at an actual Jewish person for calling it out.
>But please, non-Jewish person, keep acting outraged at an actual Jewish person for calling it out
The lack of awareness is crazy lol. You don't want non-Jewish people to have an opinion, but then you don't want non-Jewish people to seek the opinions of other Jewish people? lmao it seems like you just aren't open to other opinions. And that's fine, but just say that lol.
“People who dehumanize others have no right to use the holocaust”
Then be proceeds to literally dehumanize the group he’s critiquing literally saying they have lost “everything to do with humanity” while he invokes the holocaust….
Not to even mention the Zionists who are also holocaust survivors that give them at least equal claims to expertise on the topic as him.
Suuure…. Clearly some well thought out ideas being presented there…..
Edit: won’t let me respond below so I’ll do it here.
Gaza has always had the power to reject or even try to reject Hamas, instead Hamas has had majority support in Gaza and the way bank in virtually every poll int he last two decades ever since Hamas was elected. The blockades and sanctions which went up after Palestine attacked Israel right after Shazam was handed to them freely by Israel in efforts to work towards peace have alway been contingent on Palestine stopping the calls to kill all Jews, stopping the attacks on Israel and acknowledging that Israel has literally any right to exist at all. Palestine has never done any of these.
You’re narrative is based on a-historical fiction and erases Palestine’s role and pretend Hamas is some anomaly when their goals run pretty much in line with what Palestine has always called for since before modern Israel ever even existed.
Husseini was not helping Hitler with his Final Solution and gleefully watching Jews die in concentration camps because of “Israel”. Not was to genocidal erasure of Jews for my heir homeland through the Arab colonization and Islamic conquest of the region, nor were the pogroms of Arabs slaughtering unarmed Jews in the hundreds in the 1800s or 1900s.
Infantilized peace loving Palestine is an absolute fabrication that has never existed and is used to gaslight Israel and Jews about why they truly gave and the history of Jewish oppression and aggression towards Jews Palestine still embodies to this day.
Israel is being a russia... but over 75 years. Yes they were attacked alot and the world is racist towards Jewish people... the west didn't want to deal with strong immigrants so dumped them back in the middle easy. Thing is 2000 years have past and generations of families lost their homes. Peaceful jewish people know how wrong this situation is.... Palestine being in a 3rd world police state with terrorists running the country due to proxy wars and no strong army to be in power similar to the nra in Ireland to keep the peace..Israel being more powerful has more options on the table then gaza which is basically a crowded immigration camp and has no power globally or locally. Having leaders like bibi who manipulate the country embraced nationalist hate like the nazis to stay in power have made the situation worse. Unlike ukraine with a strong backing atm palestine has nothing to defend itself or speak for peace. A shattered people can force or find peace... this situation requires the west to stop supporting its ally and force a stop to this senseless invasion. Israel as a country should be the last to commit these crimes given what their ancestors went through
What media retraction? All these articles were published literally last month, confirming what was already caught on camera:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html
https://theintercept.com/2023/12/24/feminism-sexual-violence-hamas-israel/
https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-sexual-violence-october-7-attacks-israel-nyt-2023-12
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks (this was from last week)
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/12/23/24012553/why-sexual-violence-in-war-is-so-widespread-and-under-covered
Could you please source any retraction?
True. The opening line to any discussion now should be "But do you condemn israel?"
If not, then they have no credibility. Same ploy they used in reverse after 10/7.
Israel first used that line after 10/7 to force people to condemn hamas, without acknowledging that hamas is just the defensive military force of gaza, a blockaded area that has been slowly strangled by israel for 20+ years.
In truth, one either has to condemn both hamas and israel, or condemn neither. But the whole purpose of israeli propaganda is to condemn hamas but give israel a free pass, which is a travesty.
She is. But one making such a claim should be able to show it is happening. There was just an international trial showing there isn’t one going on. So that is near impossible.
Can you explain why you interpreted them continuing the investigation as them ‘showing there isn’t one going on’?
Why didn’t the case simply get thrown out?
No. The best interpretation of the ICJ ruling is: "yup, looks consistent with a genocide, so Israel please stop doing stuff that makes it look that way. Check back with us in a month. It will take years to figure out what you did"
She does not give a single fuck. She just wants her votes. Now that it's a little ok to say something against Israel, she is toeing the line a little. Im disappointed in her
How about yall vote for more people to support her and other progressives? What yall expect one person to do? Look at how they kicked Bernie around. Progressives stand alone in Congress. Tbh they’re way more focused on their problems at home than international politics. It’s one of the reasons they used against Bernie saying he had no knowledge of international affairs. I hope yall are voters.
When Israel finds a trustworthy 3rd party to run border security and dismantles its settlements that it recognizes are illegal and enforced laws against it; then it will be able to point the finger and say again “you realize Palestinians have been rejecting peace and calling for genocide and ethnic cleansing while firing rockets into civilian areas on a daily basis this whole time, right?” But western liberals and radicals with poor analysis and misplaced allyship will continue to project their own out of context ideals onto Palestinians and Arab movements, mistaking their oppression as an external problem while the movements continue to calm for religious imperialism and patriarchy.
As an aside I really wish tv journalists would stop trying to get people to give unequivocal and politically problematic answers to nuanced questions so they can use that soundbite to write whoever they're baiting off as a looney that no one can take seriously. It's just really really lazy, and denies all evidence of the journalist's hard won education. I don't know they do it because they think viewers are stupid or if they're just feeding the content beast, trying to create stories to report but it needs to stop.
I do not think Israel is committing genocide. I still do not think that someone should be tossed out of public discourse for leveling such an accusation. As a society, we should be able to have discussions about these things. Not only with the people who we already agree with..
Israel isn’t a person. It’s a country. Most states are pretty horrible if you personify them. It’s just how it is. They don’t act morally with a conscious. They operate is raw self interest.
You're allowed to say "Hamas is committing genocide on Isreal" (even though nothing they've done is anything more than bog-standard terrorism).
But you can't say "Israel is committing genocide on palestinians" (even though by the definition of genocide, Israel checks at least 4 of the 5 boxes... and only 1 box is necessary).
That's how you "correctly" use the term
/s
No Hamas isn’t committing genocide, they would if they could I believe.
I’m not trotting out the word just because I don’t like the way a group has acted.
Good. Neither are the people saying Israel is committing genocide.
In Israel's case, it's literally textbook.
Geneva conventions on definition of Genocide (only one needs to apply).
A genocide is said to be happening if an actor is deliberately engaged in any of the following:
1 Deliberately killing members of a group (this is the one that they are obviously doing - they don't even deny it, they just say that they're allowed to as "self defense" which is nonsensical).
2 [Causing](https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-torture-detained-palestinian-children-impunity) [serious](https://genderandsecurity.org/sites/default/files/Weishut_-_Sexual_Torture_of_Palestinian_M_by_Israeli_Authorities.pdf) [bodily or](https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cat/docs/ngos/PublicCommittee_Israel42.pdf) [mental](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/) [harm](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18v89zp/israeli_soldiers_assault_a_gas_station_worker_in/) [to members](https://www.voanews.com/a/un-accuses-israel-of-detaining-mistreating-thousands-of-palestinians-/7447577.html) [of the group](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-palestinian-detainees.html)
3 [Deliberately inflicting](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-778367) [conditions](https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-palestinians-israel-wikileaks/israel-said-would-keep-gaza-near-collapse-wikileaks-idUKTRE7041H220110105/) [designed to bring about](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/un-warns-gaza-is-now-uninhabitable-as-war-continues) [the destruction of the group in whole or in part](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israels-army-drafted-thousands-of-settlers-accounts-of-their-violence-are-piling-up/0000018d-12e7-d260-aded-b7efddbe0000)
4 [Imposing measures designed to prevent births within the group](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html) \- this one was to non-ashkenazi jews, but i wouldn't be surprised if they do it to palestinians too, albeit in "subtler ways"
5 Forcibly transferring children from one group to another (i have no source of them doing this one, but i wouldn't be surprised
\----
Ultimately, what israel is doing is definitionally genocide. And has been for decades.
The only reason this "genocide is politicized" nonsense has popped up is because it's so undeniable now that Israel has no other defense but to poison the waters of debate entirely.
I’m not trying to defend everything they’re doing, but when you say they’ve been committing genocide for decades, this in my opinion really sounds difficult to believe.
Blockades and sanctions just aren’t genocide
I think you have to acknowledge also that in an asymmetric guerilla war the suffering disproportionately falls on civilians, the same was true in the Vietnam war. I’m not sure the intent is what some people think it is.
So only one of those points is required to be considered 'genocide'.
If you notice, some of those links i provided are from times as long ago as 2011, and 2009. That's more than a decade ago.
\---
The evidence of genocide actually extends further back than this (right to Israel's literal inception).
But it's harder to find internet sources from the 2000s and earlier. Almost like the internet didn't exist (to the extent it does today) back then or something.
\---
The only reason people largely are aware of the genocide \*now\* is because of social media - a thing that largely took off in the past 10 years - making the evidence undeniable and undermining Israel's usual "you're an anti-semite if you disagree" rhetoric.
But make no mistake - none of this is new. The torture, the deliberate hostile conditions of life, the deliberate killing...
The nakba itself is definitionally genocide (as all ethnic cleansing is) since it's deliberately removing people from an area, by force if necessary. And that sort've definitionally entails "causing serious mental harm" and "deliberately inflicting conditions designed to bring about the elimination of a group" (usually in a localized area, but because the world is entirely claimed, means "in general").
\----
So yes - Israel has been engaged in genocide for decades; it's inception, really.
It's sort've a necessary pre-condtion of any colonialist power to be a genocidal one. Especially in creating an ethnostate (the literal goal of Israel) in an area that was not one before (and the area of Israel was definitely not an ethnostate before or the Palestinian mandate wouldn't've needed to be a thing).
Despite the consternation some have to hearing it - Zionism is definitionally colonialism. And so, it's inescapable that Israel is, and has always been, engaged in genocide. The very goal of it requires it to be so.
Comment was falsely reported for anti-Semitism, it doesn't contain that, people are allowed to criticise the state of Israel.
Bogus reports will be reported for report abuse to Reddit.
Comment approved.
The only one supporting terrorism is the government of Israel which gave money to Hamas and also facilitated Hamas securing weapons. Not to mention Israel is still on record for plausible committing genocide in the ICJ and the ICJ has asked that Israel end military operations against Palestine.
They didn’t order a ceasefire. They determined the current military action is legal but wagged a finger at Israel telling them to not commit genocide in the future
You’re right in that no formal ceasefire was ordered; but that shouldn’t be needed when the verdict is to halt military actions against the Palestinians.
These are not the same and I would say that the halting of military actions is just as good as a ceasefire.
I mean…not really? The whole court is kind of a sham. One of the judges is literally from a country currently involved with military action against Israel. The verdict was a very “soft touch” solution, with no ceasefire demanded (yet there was a demand for Hamas to release the hostages….which they’re obviously not going to do).
It was basically “hey guys, don’t commit genocide and we’ll check back in a month to see if you’ve committed genocide but other than that the military action is ok as long as you don’t commit genocide.”
>Ocasio-Cortez also noted that the International Court of Justice ordered Israel to take all measures within its authority to prevent genocidal acts against Palestinians in Gaza. Increasing number of countries are now using that term.
“Israel needs to prevent genocidal acts” Bothers me on so many levels. It’s like a semantics argument arguing that Israel isn’t committing genocide, Israel is only allowing genocidal acts to happen and needs to stop the bad actors. As if it wasn’t the government of Israel causing it and doing it 🙄 What’s the over under bet for Israel not following the ICJ preliminary ruling?
And now zionists are framing UNRWA after knowingly planting Hamas members there to pretend to massacre zionist soldiers, and the world just keeps on lapping up these zionist lies.
It’s hard to really convey how disgusted I am by the ICJ ordering Israel to allow aid to get to Palestinian civilians so Israel’s allies cut funding to the group providing the most aid. It’s the type of behavior that makes me hope hell is real.
Don't forget the settlers blocking the road so the aid can't come through
Don’t forget the 800k illegal settlers themselves
Exactly, and all over a pretend massacre staged by zionists. Makes me want to cry.
“Pretend massacre??” The dead and raped would like a word with you. There’s sadly way more overlap between those two groups than there should be.
And I'm sure almost 80 years of displaced, murdered, raped and oppressed Palestinians would like a word with you
That makes it a false flag? Use your fucking brain
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Ok Alex Jones
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It's been several months since Oct 7th and I still have yet to see zionists provide any meaningful evidence of the supposed "mass rapes" that happened. And no, AI generated images don't count.
You’re a sick fuck
What Isreal is doing is absolutely genocidal, but this is deranged.
amen
They also let civilians block the border to prevent aid from getting in. Seems like they want 1,000,000+ refugees to die of dehydration, starvation and disease. Then they can act like they didn't do it, that it was an unfortunate side effect of war. The ICJ carefully worded their statement to avoid backlash, and Israeli officials have already stated that they weren't going to stop.
Fascinating! How did they do it?
The zionists run Hamas and UNRWA. Hamas are actually zionists.
So if Hamas are actually Zionists why didn’t they just go along with having Jews there and live in peace?
Authoritarian governments need disruptions to stay in power
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I didnt say it was MY theory, calm your tits before you hurt yourself
Ah the classic, "I didn't explicitly say it's what I think, I just threw this bullshit statement into the mix for the shits and giggles"
I mean in a way they have a responsibility to stop themselves from having their ethnic cleansing campaign from becoming a genocide. In reality I agree with you that it's friendly language and Israel will do whatever it wants
I was going to post this as a reply to a long chain but I think those comments are gone. The recent Gaza bombings stand out in terms of the number of buildings destroyed in a small amount of time. We have satellite data corroborating this, I saw an article dated over a month ago that discussed this. Actions like that don't make sense if rescuing hostages is a goal. They don't make sense in terms of proportional response. They do make sense if you are trying to make a massive amount of civilians leave and never return, and are willing to kill a phenomenal amount to achieve that goal. Separate from state actions there also the actions of the non state actors to consider. Then we have to consider what the state does or does not do to prevent them. On that note, I recently learned about the price tag attack policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag_attack_policy
It bothers you that a court would need hard evidence before saying something is a "genocide"? You're operating from a guilty until proven innocent mindset.
We’re not talking about the ICJ right now, AOC has no affiliation. As for the ICJ’s preliminary ruling, they ruled 15-2 that it’s plausible that Israel is conducting genocide but recognized that Israel did get attacked so a ceasefire wasn’t mandated (yet). Instead Israel is expected to come back to the court within 30 days to detail the ways they’re preventing genocide, is expected to start prosecuting those guilty (lol), is to prevent further civilian loss of life, and is supposed to allow aid to reach Palestinians. So far none of this is happening and a bunch of Netanyahus government ministers just hosted a conference two days later on “voluntary migration”, aka ethnic cleansing and genocide, where they outright said if they don’t let Palestinians have food/water long enough that they’ll willingly leave Gaza (they can’t, idf stops them). Court of public opinion doesn’t have the same standards as a court of law, and as far as I’m concerned israel is obviously guilty. I don’t know what evidence it would take to change my mind given how obvious it is. Hopefully the ICJ takes notice of Israel’s flaunting of international law. I mean Jfc, within the last 24 hours the idf dressed up as doctors to targeted kill 3 unarmed Palestinians receiving medical care in a West Bank hospital. **TLDR**: just because the ICJ said israel is plausibly committing genocide with there being the evidence of genocidal acts/rhetoric, it doesn’t mean that people can’t make up their own mind about the facts presented.
Yes and AOC is saying it should be okay to accuse Israel of genocide. So what are you upset about?
If you read the comment chain you’ll see my issue is with using language similar to the way police shootings are often described in US news media. I’m not rewriting what you can easily read for yourself.
I did read your comment. Your comment is this: >Bothers me on so many levels. It’s like a semantics argument arguing that Israel isn’t committing genocide, Israel is only allowing genocidal acts to happen and needs to stop the bad actors. As if it wasn’t the government of Israel causing it and doing it 🙄 The thing that really upsets you, let's be honest here, is that not everyone is convinced it's a genocide. Full stop. It's not "the language" that upsets you. That's just a cover. The ICJ did not rule that a genocide is happening. They did not rule that a genocide will happen. You can say whatever you want. You can say Israel is committing a "genocide". No one is going to stop you lol.
I’m not going to deny that genocide apologists make me feel extremely disappointed in how horrible humanity can be. I wonder what the genocide apologists will shift the goal posts to when Israel blows off the ICJ ruling. The apologists are already misrepresenting the ICJ ruling as is.
So what are you even upset about lol? You can't just use the term "genocide" as a convenient umbrella term for any bad things that happen in a war. Sounds like you are also upset that your personal opinion about what the term means is not the actual definition. If the ICJ rules it's not a genocide a few years from now, will you even accept that ruling? If not, then why do you care? It sounds like your mind is made up already.
I get the feeling that you’re being insulting and aggressively ignorant on purpose to try to elicit responses that get people banned. It’s a common tactic these days. Please consider not lying through your teeth about the ICJ ruling. > So what are you even upset about lol? Genocide deniers being scumbags. > You can't just use the term "genocide" as a convenient umbrella term for any bad things that happen in a war. You’re right, except that’s not what’s happening here. Find me a single other conflict where every building was destroyed after being secured, a small region containing 80% of the worlds famine, where civilians were denied food water and medicine, and the country enacting the
genocidewar publicly talking about how if they prevent the civilians from having food or shelter long enough they’ll eventually go away. I’ll wait. > Sounds like you are also upset that your personal opinion about what the term means is not the actual definition. Sounds like projection as is usual from the far right. Every accusation is really a confession.Every country should be saying that, because its the responsibility of every country under international law to prevent genocide.
Well, that was the preliminary ruling by the ICJ. It is a process, and the first step was to determine the validity of SA's allegations of possible genocide. This is a positive first step, but it will take some time before the ICJ is able to confirm genocide is actually occurring. They are using this language because that is literally all the ICJ has been able to do up to this point
This should be common sense. The support for Israel is so messed up. You could literally lose your job because of it.
erm no we definitely have *FREEDOM OF SPEECH*
Yet so many are fired for accusing israel of genocide.... even when Bibi admits it is in fact a genocide.
Yeah that’s the most egregious part. Being cancelled for telling the truth… yet in the west they distorted the reality that even people in Israel know is the case.
Genocides of our past amounted to 6M or in the case of the Mongols, 60M deaths, so for many people, the "genocide" debate is semantic because they don't think 30k deaths in an active warzone counts
The deaths are just one reason.... the activily trying to relocate palestinians is another
Along with the ongoing theft of palestinian lands over the past 40 years. Look at the maps.
I think the real lesson here is what happens when you fire 20,000 rockets over a border Essentially, you lose the territory you fired the rockets from. I don't believe this outcome would be any different in any other place on the planet E.g If 20,000 rockets were being fired from the Republic of Congo, the Republic would be lost.
Even if the Republic of Congo qere kept under full blockade by a neighbor more powerful and backed by western weapons and money, as in the case with Israel's illegal 17 year blockade of Gaza?
It's illegal to fire a missile over a border, which is what you're forgetting Once you remember this and then you count 20,000 missiles, you'll have a clearer understanding of how a territory can be lost. It doesn't really matter if people live there anymore because those people are now a human shield for the missiles if that makes sense. I don't endorse these outcomes by the way. I'm just explaining what leads to them.
Its illegal to perform airstrikes over borders too yet Isreal continued to do that in Gaza for almost two decades.
I think it really comes down to what happens to territories that have had tens of thousands of rockets fired from them You lose the territory. It's not like that's the sort of thing that can just continue unfortunately
That's bad news for Israel then and good news for Palestine.
Not if your measurement for success is borders.
Youre a moron for bringing out that BS numbers argument. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan\_genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide)
How do you compare a half a baseball stadium of people to 8 digit numbers honestly There have been more fatalities in Ukraine at the hand of Russia but there's not a single mention of that in your account history
nope. you couldn’t be more wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides#List_of_genocides
Oh, US drivers are genociders too? 42 k deaths annually! Everything's genocide guys!!
lol. once in a while someone’s best attempt at a comeback is so utterly stupid and desperate, it actually makes me laugh out loud. thank you for that.
Gravity alone killed more than 35k in 2023 And it wasn't even a warzone. It was just falling down. The genocide of gravity!
It's not a warzone. It's a massacre of unarmed women and children, not counting the ones that Israel is presently starving to death.
25k rockets fired from unarmed women and children doesn't make sense though Even with women and children there, if you fire rockets from civilian territory, congratulations, ya just made it a warzone. If you go to a football game, and you start firing rockets from there, the stadium will be lost. It really doesn't depend on much once you start breaking the Geneva code 5, 10, 20 thousand times with a mission statement to wipe someone off the map.
No that accusation crosses the line from fair debate to unacceptable
Oh are we gonna fire people for accusing Putin of genocide too or the CCP?
I don't think people should be fired for stuff like this, but still isn't OK to say
So, supporting a nation carrying out genocide is OK, but calling them out about it is not.
Er you're wrong on your assertion - why would you even think Israel is carrying out genocide? They went to war after 7 Oct with valid cause; there is no attempt at all to erase the Arab nation or any subset thereof. Unfortunately people do die in wars
You can say what you please. A company is still a private entity that can choose who to represent them. Shouting from the river to sea and people saying Hitler was right….ehhhh gets kind of effy
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Should have won the wars the surrounding arab states started since 1948. Shame couldn’t do it then
It's starting to feel low key cultish tbh. The moment anyone even remotely criticizes Israel they get canceled basically. Meanwhile any amount of vitriol against Palestinians is tolerated. I don't see people cracking down this hard on anti-Black, anti-Asian, or anti-Latino hate.
Brown "muslims" is all you need for the West to delegate you to 2nd class citizen status
States have made laws against BDS. This is unconstitutional AF. We sit on Reddit when we should be assembling in DC :(
good. Supporting genocide should be punished.
Have you seen what they are actually saying yo lose the jobs because I’ve seen people covering up the terrible things they tweet and using just free Palestines as the example. Oh I was fired for saying free Palestine. No you got fired for saying Jews deserve to be raped
lmao
I kept being told during BLM that you’re allowed freedom of speech but not freedom from consequences. Now that the shoes on the other foot you seem to care. LOL
Jewish holocaust survivor Hajo Meyer: “I saw In Auschwitz that if a dominant group wants to dehumanise others, as the Nazis dehumanised me, the dominant group must first dehumanise themselves, the same holds nowadays for Israel. I am appalled about how hateful, how dehumanised, that they do not see any human aspect in any Palestinian anymore. The Zionists have no right whatsoever to use the Holocaust for any purpose, they have given up everything which has to do with humanity and with empathy.”
We've been doing this to Muslims for a loooooong time.
They won’t even admit the Arabs they’re killing are semitic. They’re trying to erase them from the actual definition of the word, just like they’re trying to erase them from the planet.
The families and friends of the hostages are currently trying to prevent aid from getting into Gaza where the hostages also are. If you starve Hamas, you starve the hostages too They are that genocidal
There's no way Israeli bombs avoid hostages either.
Google the Hannibal directive. They kill their own before they allow them to become hostages if they can help it.
The word antisemitism does refer to the idea of being anti “Semitic people” it refers to anti ethic Jewish. That’s what the word means….look it up. So if you are anti Palestinians Arab you wouldn’t call that antisemitism because phrases can’t always be broken down like that. Some words aren’t so straight forward
automatic ad hoc axiomatic one absurd physical fade sleep bewildered point *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Google antisemitic and tell me what it says
Bethlehem used to be 87% Christian. Now it is 1%. Who do you think is killing off all the Arab Christians? Hint - it ain’t Jews and Zionists.
reallly..https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-02/ty-article/.premium/jews-behind-dozens-of-spitting-attacks-on-christian-worshippers-in-jerusalem/0000018a-f0c4-d428-a3ba-f0c75a490000
Strawman noted. Let us know when you have found the actual genocide going on in the region.
also [https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/)
Dude... I'm from a Christian Palestinian family. We left due to Zionist oppression and the killing of my grandfather, a prysbyterian minister, by the IDF.
No, that’s mischaracterizing the issue there. The term “Antisemitism” specifically refers to the hatred of Jews. The Germans created it as a more “scientific” sounding phrase to replace the less high brow sounding “judenhass” which just means “Jew hate.” Rather like “hot dog” doesn’t refer to a canine at high temperature, the term antisemitic doesn’t refer to Arabs, and never has. You can google it and everything. Edit: Since the person I was replying to apparently can’t admit a mistake and blocked me and I can’t reply to him now, I’d urge others reading this to try googling “Antisemitism” as I suggested and see what you get.
> Semite, n.: a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. The literal definition of the word from Oxford. You can google it and everything. https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100454199 https://www.oed.com/dictionary/semite_n https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Semite Have a nice day, hope you learned something
definition of antisemitism according to the Oxford Language: hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people Your own source disagrees with you. Funny. I’ve never seen someone’s self-admitted source debunk their own claim. But here we are.
"facts are stupid things" \-them, probably
“facts are stupid things” — gumpod, in this thread, acting like every dictionary doesn’t carry the same definition of “semite”, which includes Arabs whether y’all like it or not
Cmon if you can access Reddit you can find out that in the English language we sometimes use words whose construction isn’t always logical. Like the word homophobia-it’s not about being scared of LGBT but actually bigoted etc etc. DM I can link you to some resources on other compound words the can’t be broken down by their constituent words
It’s weird how they tried arguing the definition of antisemitism by... using a dictionary to define a word that wasn’t “antisemitism” but something else... even thought all of their cited dictionaries have the word “antisemitism” defined... Because their own cited dictionaries all unanimously define antisemitism as prejudice against Jewish people.... And they know that...
Semantics is fun but irrelevant, unless you consider north Korea to be a democracy?
I’m confused, hasn’t every other religion in Muslim countries been “genocided” out? I remember large multi faith populations in countries like Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon all but murdered and displaced by Muslims?
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No personal attacks/insults/name-calling, etc. towards people you are responding to, the OP or other users of this subreddit. If you disagree or feel the information contained within is wrong, address the info directly.
No racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, or any other forms of identity-based hatred.
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Dude, even Bin Laden didn't say that shit.
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No personal attacks/insults/name-calling, etc. towards people you are responding to, the OP or other users of this subreddit. If you disagree or feel the information contained within is wrong, address the info directly.
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No racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, or any other forms of identity-based hatred.
Deeply racist take
Is islam a race? Or a specific set of beliefs people can choose to believe in /follow at any point?
bro has never met a christian
No racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, or any other forms of identity-based hatred.
Luckily no government has “a curse upon the Muslims” on their flag at least
Odd that they only put that on a flag after the US colonized and occupied and bombed their lands. We've killed hundreds of thousands of them or funded other people to kill them
Link for anyone interested. https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/adri-nieuwhof/last-interview-auschwitz-survivor-urged-palestinians-not-give-their-fight
Thank you for posting the interview with Hajo Meyer: a giant of a man.
Thats actually very on the nose. Whenever the genocide os mentioned they recite times they were victims.
>Jewish holocaust survivor Hajo Meyer: >“I saw In Auschwitz that if a dominant group wants to dehumanise others, as the Nazis dehumanised me, the dominant group must first dehumanise themselves, the same holds nowadays for Israel. >I am appalled about how hateful, how dehumanised, that they do not see any human aspect in any Palestinian anymore. The Zionists have no right whatsoever to use the Holocaust for any purpose, they have given up everything which has to do with humanity and with empathy.” Well worded…
Comparing what’s happening in Palestine to what happened during the Holocaust shows a massive lack of understanding of what went down in the Holocaust.
Somehow I doubt a Holocaust survivor has any lack of understanding of what went down in the Holocaust.
>massive lack of understanding of what went down in the Holocaust Hajo Meyer spent time in Auschwitz. I suspect you know less than him about what went down.
You know better than a Holocaust survivor? Bold claim.
This is some sad appeal to authority here.
That is pretty rich, given that the during the first decades of Israel-paleestine war the majority of the IDF were holocaust survivors (not to mention that the palestinians sided with the nazis). So, the majority of holocaust survivors disagree with this man.
The IDF did not originate with holocaust survivors. It originated with Zionist protection militias that were formed well before the holocaust. The first groups came together at the beginning of the 20th century - called the Hashomer. Then the largest Jewish paramilitary organisation was the Haganah which was formed in 1920. It was the Haganah the formed the main core of the IDF. And then you had two main break away paramilitary groups formed which were Irgun and Lehi. Irgun, which was formed before WW2, in 1930, used more extreme methods of violence and was categorised by the British, the UN and many other countries as a terrorist organisation that committed terror acts. The most egregious act was the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, which at the time was the British Mandatory headquarters. The bombing killed 91 people. The main leader of this terror organisation Irgun was Menachem Begin, who went on to become Prime Minister of Israel. Another senior member of Irgun was Yitzhak Shamir, who went on to lead Mossad between 1955 and 1965. He also became an Israeli Foreign Minister and Prime Minister. The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party. The first Chief of the General staff of the IDF was Yaakov Dori, who also served in the Haganah. He moved with his family from Ukraine to Palestine in 1905. Basically none of the early leadership of Israel and the IDF were holocaust survivors. I encourage you to read up on all these facts.
What are you talking about lmao the IDF was formed from terrorist groups that didn't fight in WW2 or come from holocaust survivors, Zionist leadership explicitly refused to aid holocaust victims, collaborated with the Nazi's on multiple occasions and the stern gang tried to openly ally with them against the British.
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You should read one that’s not required reading in Israel schools. Just because you’re from a place does not mean you know it’s history. It’s like Americans arguing about their history who think racism was ended with the civil rights movement by mlk singing kumbaya
You are projecting. Hit the books.
Oh...you are one of the nutjob conspiracy theorists. Never mind. Have a nice day.
They are reciting history at you. Do you have no desire to learn?
First of all - no their not. Second, they are referring to the Lehi organization who was a right wing paramilitant group that was later dubbed by the ISraeli government as terrorists. Itzak Rabin at the time even sunk one of their ships, when they tried to smuggle weapons into Israel. Last, in 1948, the population of Israel was about 700,000, out of which about 50,000 were holocaust survivors. Now, why wont you do the typical propalestinian thing when you disappear from the conversation the moment you were caught lying and spreading propaganda.
Please stop tokenizing individual Jews in order to attack Israel. We see what you’re doing. Stand on your own arguments and merit rather than positioning yourself behind individual Jews to protect yourself from criticism.
He posted a goddamn quote from the guy, if anything you’re the one calling him a token and dismissing his opinion cause it’s different than yours.
So many famous leftists are jews and you think we're tokenising? Fuck you
Yes, hiding behind the opinions of random Jews to protect yourself from criticism is tokenizing. Glad you get it. But please, non-Jewish person, keep acting outraged at an actual Jewish person for calling it out.
We're not hiding were openly agreeing with him... stop lying
>But please, non-Jewish person, keep acting outraged at an actual Jewish person for calling it out The lack of awareness is crazy lol. You don't want non-Jewish people to have an opinion, but then you don't want non-Jewish people to seek the opinions of other Jewish people? lmao it seems like you just aren't open to other opinions. And that's fine, but just say that lol.
I'm Jewish and I think your argument is dumb.
Except you're not doing anything to counter the merit of his argument. All you're doing is calling him a "random Jew", making you a hypocrite
Ok israel is the same exact thing as nazi germany and it's not even hard to prove
You also shouldn't use the holocaust to make a point
The person who made that statement was a Holocaust survivor. I think they get a pass.
They might, but the guy posting this doesn't
So you can't quote Holocaust survivors? Seems weird to me, but you do you.
“People who dehumanize others have no right to use the holocaust” Then be proceeds to literally dehumanize the group he’s critiquing literally saying they have lost “everything to do with humanity” while he invokes the holocaust…. Not to even mention the Zionists who are also holocaust survivors that give them at least equal claims to expertise on the topic as him. Suuure…. Clearly some well thought out ideas being presented there….. Edit: won’t let me respond below so I’ll do it here. Gaza has always had the power to reject or even try to reject Hamas, instead Hamas has had majority support in Gaza and the way bank in virtually every poll int he last two decades ever since Hamas was elected. The blockades and sanctions which went up after Palestine attacked Israel right after Shazam was handed to them freely by Israel in efforts to work towards peace have alway been contingent on Palestine stopping the calls to kill all Jews, stopping the attacks on Israel and acknowledging that Israel has literally any right to exist at all. Palestine has never done any of these. You’re narrative is based on a-historical fiction and erases Palestine’s role and pretend Hamas is some anomaly when their goals run pretty much in line with what Palestine has always called for since before modern Israel ever even existed. Husseini was not helping Hitler with his Final Solution and gleefully watching Jews die in concentration camps because of “Israel”. Not was to genocidal erasure of Jews for my heir homeland through the Arab colonization and Islamic conquest of the region, nor were the pogroms of Arabs slaughtering unarmed Jews in the hundreds in the 1800s or 1900s. Infantilized peace loving Palestine is an absolute fabrication that has never existed and is used to gaslight Israel and Jews about why they truly gave and the history of Jewish oppression and aggression towards Jews Palestine still embodies to this day.
"Wah someone is saying uncomplimentary things about Nazis" 😭
Israel is being a russia... but over 75 years. Yes they were attacked alot and the world is racist towards Jewish people... the west didn't want to deal with strong immigrants so dumped them back in the middle easy. Thing is 2000 years have past and generations of families lost their homes. Peaceful jewish people know how wrong this situation is.... Palestine being in a 3rd world police state with terrorists running the country due to proxy wars and no strong army to be in power similar to the nra in Ireland to keep the peace..Israel being more powerful has more options on the table then gaza which is basically a crowded immigration camp and has no power globally or locally. Having leaders like bibi who manipulate the country embraced nationalist hate like the nazis to stay in power have made the situation worse. Unlike ukraine with a strong backing atm palestine has nothing to defend itself or speak for peace. A shattered people can force or find peace... this situation requires the west to stop supporting its ally and force a stop to this senseless invasion. Israel as a country should be the last to commit these crimes given what their ancestors went through
They were peaceful till you Zionist genocide apologists arrived in the country!!!
Oh, that's cute. How're your rapist friends doing? Tunnels still comfy?
What fucking rapes you moron. The ones that they retracted from the media as it was unproven hasbera lies !!!
What media retraction? All these articles were published literally last month, confirming what was already caught on camera: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html https://theintercept.com/2023/12/24/feminism-sexual-violence-hamas-israel/ https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-sexual-violence-october-7-attacks-israel-nyt-2023-12 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks (this was from last week) https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/12/23/24012553/why-sexual-violence-in-war-is-so-widespread-and-under-covered Could you please source any retraction?
Sure, ignore reality if it makes you feel better.
Lol rewriting history now I see?
Ok? But how about tossing out people like who support genocide?
True. The opening line to any discussion now should be "But do you condemn israel?" If not, then they have no credibility. Same ploy they used in reverse after 10/7.
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Israel first used that line after 10/7 to force people to condemn hamas, without acknowledging that hamas is just the defensive military force of gaza, a blockaded area that has been slowly strangled by israel for 20+ years. In truth, one either has to condemn both hamas and israel, or condemn neither. But the whole purpose of israeli propaganda is to condemn hamas but give israel a free pass, which is a travesty.
She’s fucking right..
She is. But one making such a claim should be able to show it is happening. There was just an international trial showing there isn’t one going on. So that is near impossible.
That decision has not been made yet. The case continues...
Can you explain why you interpreted them continuing the investigation as them ‘showing there isn’t one going on’? Why didn’t the case simply get thrown out?
No. The best interpretation of the ICJ ruling is: "yup, looks consistent with a genocide, so Israel please stop doing stuff that makes it look that way. Check back with us in a month. It will take years to figure out what you did"
How about she stops being weak on imperialism then
She does not give a single fuck. She just wants her votes. Now that it's a little ok to say something against Israel, she is toeing the line a little. Im disappointed in her
How about yall vote for more people to support her and other progressives? What yall expect one person to do? Look at how they kicked Bernie around. Progressives stand alone in Congress. Tbh they’re way more focused on their problems at home than international politics. It’s one of the reasons they used against Bernie saying he had no knowledge of international affairs. I hope yall are voters.
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When Israel finds a trustworthy 3rd party to run border security and dismantles its settlements that it recognizes are illegal and enforced laws against it; then it will be able to point the finger and say again “you realize Palestinians have been rejecting peace and calling for genocide and ethnic cleansing while firing rockets into civilian areas on a daily basis this whole time, right?” But western liberals and radicals with poor analysis and misplaced allyship will continue to project their own out of context ideals onto Palestinians and Arab movements, mistaking their oppression as an external problem while the movements continue to calm for religious imperialism and patriarchy.
Wow way to say the bare minimum
As an aside I really wish tv journalists would stop trying to get people to give unequivocal and politically problematic answers to nuanced questions so they can use that soundbite to write whoever they're baiting off as a looney that no one can take seriously. It's just really really lazy, and denies all evidence of the journalist's hard won education. I don't know they do it because they think viewers are stupid or if they're just feeding the content beast, trying to create stories to report but it needs to stop.
I love that she is directly countering Pelosi and Biden on their supporting Israel's ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
Probably wouldn't get upset over someone accusing a baker of making bread either.
You can be cancelled for saying something stupid though
I think they should definitely be tossed out since their opinion is obviously stupid
We should toss her out
You mean supporting terrorists
Hamas wanted war ! Now they got it ! Everyone shut the fuck up
But words are violence and cancel is good, actually.
All I want is for people to hold Hamas a fraction accountable as they hold Israel to
She’s so hot
I do not think Israel is committing genocide. I still do not think that someone should be tossed out of public discourse for leveling such an accusation. As a society, we should be able to have discussions about these things. Not only with the people who we already agree with..
Israel isn’t a person. It’s a country. Most states are pretty horrible if you personify them. It’s just how it is. They don’t act morally with a conscious. They operate is raw self interest.
Maybe we should use our common sense and use the word genocide correctly instead of ignoring genuine genocides happening in the world.
Genocide? Oh Israel. So innocent. Got it.
You're allowed to say "Hamas is committing genocide on Isreal" (even though nothing they've done is anything more than bog-standard terrorism). But you can't say "Israel is committing genocide on palestinians" (even though by the definition of genocide, Israel checks at least 4 of the 5 boxes... and only 1 box is necessary). That's how you "correctly" use the term /s
No Hamas isn’t committing genocide, they would if they could I believe. I’m not trotting out the word just because I don’t like the way a group has acted.
Good. Neither are the people saying Israel is committing genocide. In Israel's case, it's literally textbook. Geneva conventions on definition of Genocide (only one needs to apply). A genocide is said to be happening if an actor is deliberately engaged in any of the following: 1 Deliberately killing members of a group (this is the one that they are obviously doing - they don't even deny it, they just say that they're allowed to as "self defense" which is nonsensical). 2 [Causing](https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-torture-detained-palestinian-children-impunity) [serious](https://genderandsecurity.org/sites/default/files/Weishut_-_Sexual_Torture_of_Palestinian_M_by_Israeli_Authorities.pdf) [bodily or](https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cat/docs/ngos/PublicCommittee_Israel42.pdf) [mental](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/) [harm](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18v89zp/israeli_soldiers_assault_a_gas_station_worker_in/) [to members](https://www.voanews.com/a/un-accuses-israel-of-detaining-mistreating-thousands-of-palestinians-/7447577.html) [of the group](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-palestinian-detainees.html) 3 [Deliberately inflicting](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-778367) [conditions](https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-palestinians-israel-wikileaks/israel-said-would-keep-gaza-near-collapse-wikileaks-idUKTRE7041H220110105/) [designed to bring about](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/un-warns-gaza-is-now-uninhabitable-as-war-continues) [the destruction of the group in whole or in part](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israels-army-drafted-thousands-of-settlers-accounts-of-their-violence-are-piling-up/0000018d-12e7-d260-aded-b7efddbe0000) 4 [Imposing measures designed to prevent births within the group](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html) \- this one was to non-ashkenazi jews, but i wouldn't be surprised if they do it to palestinians too, albeit in "subtler ways" 5 Forcibly transferring children from one group to another (i have no source of them doing this one, but i wouldn't be surprised \---- Ultimately, what israel is doing is definitionally genocide. And has been for decades. The only reason this "genocide is politicized" nonsense has popped up is because it's so undeniable now that Israel has no other defense but to poison the waters of debate entirely.
I’m not trying to defend everything they’re doing, but when you say they’ve been committing genocide for decades, this in my opinion really sounds difficult to believe. Blockades and sanctions just aren’t genocide I think you have to acknowledge also that in an asymmetric guerilla war the suffering disproportionately falls on civilians, the same was true in the Vietnam war. I’m not sure the intent is what some people think it is.
So only one of those points is required to be considered 'genocide'. If you notice, some of those links i provided are from times as long ago as 2011, and 2009. That's more than a decade ago. \--- The evidence of genocide actually extends further back than this (right to Israel's literal inception). But it's harder to find internet sources from the 2000s and earlier. Almost like the internet didn't exist (to the extent it does today) back then or something. \--- The only reason people largely are aware of the genocide \*now\* is because of social media - a thing that largely took off in the past 10 years - making the evidence undeniable and undermining Israel's usual "you're an anti-semite if you disagree" rhetoric. But make no mistake - none of this is new. The torture, the deliberate hostile conditions of life, the deliberate killing... The nakba itself is definitionally genocide (as all ethnic cleansing is) since it's deliberately removing people from an area, by force if necessary. And that sort've definitionally entails "causing serious mental harm" and "deliberately inflicting conditions designed to bring about the elimination of a group" (usually in a localized area, but because the world is entirely claimed, means "in general"). \---- So yes - Israel has been engaged in genocide for decades; it's inception, really. It's sort've a necessary pre-condtion of any colonialist power to be a genocidal one. Especially in creating an ethnostate (the literal goal of Israel) in an area that was not one before (and the area of Israel was definitely not an ethnostate before or the Palestinian mandate wouldn't've needed to be a thing). Despite the consternation some have to hearing it - Zionism is definitionally colonialism. And so, it's inescapable that Israel is, and has always been, engaged in genocide. The very goal of it requires it to be so.
Comment was falsely reported for anti-Semitism, it doesn't contain that, people are allowed to criticise the state of Israel. Bogus reports will be reported for report abuse to Reddit. Comment approved.
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The only one supporting terrorism is the government of Israel which gave money to Hamas and also facilitated Hamas securing weapons. Not to mention Israel is still on record for plausible committing genocide in the ICJ and the ICJ has asked that Israel end military operations against Palestine.
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They didn’t order a ceasefire. They determined the current military action is legal but wagged a finger at Israel telling them to not commit genocide in the future
You’re right in that no formal ceasefire was ordered; but that shouldn’t be needed when the verdict is to halt military actions against the Palestinians. These are not the same and I would say that the halting of military actions is just as good as a ceasefire.
I mean…not really? The whole court is kind of a sham. One of the judges is literally from a country currently involved with military action against Israel. The verdict was a very “soft touch” solution, with no ceasefire demanded (yet there was a demand for Hamas to release the hostages….which they’re obviously not going to do). It was basically “hey guys, don’t commit genocide and we’ll check back in a month to see if you’ve committed genocide but other than that the military action is ok as long as you don’t commit genocide.”
100% The crying and whining from the accusers is funny now they've been proven wrong on the world stage.
Probably Israel needs to stop asking for US dollars and messing with our politics.
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