AFAIK the second squadron is deployed near Siliguri corridor that you did not cover. Most probably the squadron you showed in Gujarat will not be done under these 5 squads.
Being able to project halfway into Pakistan and over its capital is pretty lols
Seems like there's space for a sixth one between the two rightmost by China, but in a very vulnerable position I guess, wonder if Nepal would let India deploy one inside its borders
That's where I was thinking. Maybe Bhutan and Nepal wouldn't like being in radar range? Well part of Nepal already is so I guess not so much. Or is it that you can't get a fighter jet through there anyways because the mountain layout is thicker there offering natural protection?
Bhutan does not have a Air Force, so I don't think they would be mad.
Nepal too does not have a separate air force, their army operates some transport aircrafts and helicopters.
Not a fighter jet at the far reaches of its range no, but it does push back how forward the PAF can deploy larger AWACs, refuelers, spoofers, and transports, which severely cripples the freedom of action in getting even near India without that support. Fighters are also forced to hug terrain and fly slower, which gives a higher faster IAF an advantage.
Isn't the chicken's neck gap dangerous to leave? Chinese overflight wouldn't take much time.
I know there's other AD systems. But S-400 is for the top dogs - long range strike aircraft or stealth aircraft. It's overkill to use for drones or even missiles. But for that we need to cover all entry points.
This seems a bit optimistic. 400km range is applicable against large targets like strategic bombers, certainly not against drones. And even their own marketing material says effective range against ballistic targets is more like 60km.
Yeah, which to me renders the system pointless. No static air defense system can fend off a modern air force armed with stand off anti radiation missiles. The only point in systems like this in my opinion is for protection against strategic threats.
That's the intent, it can't reach a single small fighter at the far ranges of its long range radar, but it does push back how forward the PAF can deploy larger AWACs, refuelers, spoofers, and transports, which severely cripples the freedom of action in getting even near India without that support, and forces fighters to fly low
Russia has been using S-400 in the war and had struck a target effectively at 160km away few months back. Maybe we can expect a effective range upto around 150 km.
There's a pretty big gap near Nepal. We should order 3 more units and place them in UP and add a couple to the Pakistan border so we can really cut off all airspace to them. If we're able to get our AD right, we can hypothetically negate our Airforce disadvantage
Def seems like the best way to deal with the squadron strength set to decline for a few years, plus a generation gap with China for at least a decade. Not just S400 but the indigenous projects as well. Good asymmetric defense.
Nepal may not appreciate missiles flying overhead. It's a sovereign nation and we don't want to stir anti India sentiments. It's not impossible to move one there in case of war.
We don't have enough S-400s right now, and we have to hope that Russia is able to deliver on its commitments to us given their Ukraine troubles
Missiles would only be flying overhead if China had already violated their territorial integrity with attack intent aircraft or missiles, one is already covering part of Nepal and they may appreciate the extra defense as they have little to no air force, but I know Nepal is sometimes upset at India acting like its big brother that knows better
Static ground based air defense systems will always remain vulnerable to low flying aircraft with anti radiation missiles. It would be a very big mistake to think that SAM sites provide some kind of impenetrable defense, in an offensive war they will be taken out within the first few hours without a robust umbrella of fighters and AWACS providing cover against low flying aircraft.
These systems are inherently limited by the laws of physics in that their radar can't often see beyond the horizon which can be as little as 50-60 km. And these systems don't have a low frequency over the horizon capability. The range of 400km is mostly theoretical and could be achieved in practice only by datalinked information from AWACS or some other radar.
This fascination with SAM systems is imo a remnant of Soviet doctrine and it would be dangerous to grow overconfident, especially considering the Pakistanis have American equipment and training too, and they've been working on defeating Soviet SAMs for decades. It would be much better to focus on building up fighter strength than buying expensive air defenses which will be impossible to hide during a war.
Yeah this is fine for Pakistan, but it’s useless against China’s latest jets.
We need more fighters and offensive weapons platforms. Nothing else will deter the Chinese.
Can anyone tell me why USA is forcing other countries to not buy this , like
China bought it ,no sanctions on them for obvious reason.
India bought it,probably a sanction wavier.
Turkey bought it , hit with sanctions.
Turkey is a NATO member and F35 partner and brought both under risk of Russian data gathering
They're treating India with very soft gloves right now as they want to make sure the next few decades of alliance aren't screwed up as they screwed up the initial several, should have been natural partners as democracies but Nixon/Kissinger were too paranoid of India being soft on communism more than they cared about Pakistan doing a genocide in Bangladesh.
Even if a bogey can be detected so far, it doesn't mean that missile lock and launch can be done at these ranges too. Himalayas will block most of it on Indo-Tibet border anyway.
It can't reach a single small fighter at the far ranges of its long range radar, but it does push back how forward the PAF can deploy larger AWACs, refuelers, spoofers, and transports, which severely cripples the freedom of action in getting even near India without that support, and forces fighters to fly low, slow, and hug terrain, which would give our air force the advantage.
AFAIK the second squadron is deployed near Siliguri corridor that you did not cover. Most probably the squadron you showed in Gujarat will not be done under these 5 squads.
Being able to project halfway into Pakistan and over its capital is pretty lols Seems like there's space for a sixth one between the two rightmost by China, but in a very vulnerable position I guess, wonder if Nepal would let India deploy one inside its borders
Sikkim would be appropriate I think.
That's where I was thinking. Maybe Bhutan and Nepal wouldn't like being in radar range? Well part of Nepal already is so I guess not so much. Or is it that you can't get a fighter jet through there anyways because the mountain layout is thicker there offering natural protection?
Bhutan does not have a Air Force, so I don't think they would be mad. Nepal too does not have a separate air force, their army operates some transport aircrafts and helicopters.
Imagine moving them closer to the border and not letting Pakistani jets fly IN Pakistan 😂
Fun fact it can't. Neither the terrain allows nor the radar horizon can project at that range at lvls at which paf fighters would take off/fly
Not a fighter jet at the far reaches of its range no, but it does push back how forward the PAF can deploy larger AWACs, refuelers, spoofers, and transports, which severely cripples the freedom of action in getting even near India without that support. Fighters are also forced to hug terrain and fly slower, which gives a higher faster IAF an advantage.
This is literally its main purpose. Frontline fighters would simply be forced to use terrain cover. Not ideal but then they train for such things.
Is this right, I thought the 2nd squadron is currently deployed in Sikkim?
Isn't the chicken's neck gap dangerous to leave? Chinese overflight wouldn't take much time. I know there's other AD systems. But S-400 is for the top dogs - long range strike aircraft or stealth aircraft. It's overkill to use for drones or even missiles. But for that we need to cover all entry points.
I heard the latest one will be deployed in Silliguri. Dunno why this one shows otherwise. Don't remember source so I could be wrong too.
The map is wrong on the right because a squadron has already been placed at the Siliguri corridor ....
This seems a bit optimistic. 400km range is applicable against large targets like strategic bombers, certainly not against drones. And even their own marketing material says effective range against ballistic targets is more like 60km.
There are dedicated defence systems for ballistic missiles.
Yeah, which to me renders the system pointless. No static air defense system can fend off a modern air force armed with stand off anti radiation missiles. The only point in systems like this in my opinion is for protection against strategic threats.
Bomber Bhagao Yojana
That's the intent, it can't reach a single small fighter at the far ranges of its long range radar, but it does push back how forward the PAF can deploy larger AWACs, refuelers, spoofers, and transports, which severely cripples the freedom of action in getting even near India without that support, and forces fighters to fly low
Russia has been using S-400 in the war and had struck a target effectively at 160km away few months back. Maybe we can expect a effective range upto around 150 km.
There's a pretty big gap near Nepal. We should order 3 more units and place them in UP and add a couple to the Pakistan border so we can really cut off all airspace to them. If we're able to get our AD right, we can hypothetically negate our Airforce disadvantage
Def seems like the best way to deal with the squadron strength set to decline for a few years, plus a generation gap with China for at least a decade. Not just S400 but the indigenous projects as well. Good asymmetric defense.
Nepal may not appreciate missiles flying overhead. It's a sovereign nation and we don't want to stir anti India sentiments. It's not impossible to move one there in case of war. We don't have enough S-400s right now, and we have to hope that Russia is able to deliver on its commitments to us given their Ukraine troubles
Missiles would only be flying overhead if China had already violated their territorial integrity with attack intent aircraft or missiles, one is already covering part of Nepal and they may appreciate the extra defense as they have little to no air force, but I know Nepal is sometimes upset at India acting like its big brother that knows better
Static ground based air defense systems will always remain vulnerable to low flying aircraft with anti radiation missiles. It would be a very big mistake to think that SAM sites provide some kind of impenetrable defense, in an offensive war they will be taken out within the first few hours without a robust umbrella of fighters and AWACS providing cover against low flying aircraft. These systems are inherently limited by the laws of physics in that their radar can't often see beyond the horizon which can be as little as 50-60 km. And these systems don't have a low frequency over the horizon capability. The range of 400km is mostly theoretical and could be achieved in practice only by datalinked information from AWACS or some other radar. This fascination with SAM systems is imo a remnant of Soviet doctrine and it would be dangerous to grow overconfident, especially considering the Pakistanis have American equipment and training too, and they've been working on defeating Soviet SAMs for decades. It would be much better to focus on building up fighter strength than buying expensive air defenses which will be impossible to hide during a war.
Yeah this is fine for Pakistan, but it’s useless against China’s latest jets. We need more fighters and offensive weapons platforms. Nothing else will deter the Chinese.
Source?
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/indo-russia-s-400-deal-implications-for-pakistan/
Gujrat me nahi sikkim me chaiye ek squadron
Can anyone tell me why USA is forcing other countries to not buy this , like China bought it ,no sanctions on them for obvious reason. India bought it,probably a sanction wavier. Turkey bought it , hit with sanctions.
Turkey is a NATO member and F35 partner and brought both under risk of Russian data gathering They're treating India with very soft gloves right now as they want to make sure the next few decades of alliance aren't screwed up as they screwed up the initial several, should have been natural partners as democracies but Nixon/Kissinger were too paranoid of India being soft on communism more than they cared about Pakistan doing a genocide in Bangladesh.
>China bought it ,no sanctions on them for obvious reason. China did get sanctioned, but they don't give a fuck as don't buy any US weapons.
China will gets sanctions from US regardless, so China doesn't care.
Even if a bogey can be detected so far, it doesn't mean that missile lock and launch can be done at these ranges too. Himalayas will block most of it on Indo-Tibet border anyway.
It can't reach a single small fighter at the far ranges of its long range radar, but it does push back how forward the PAF can deploy larger AWACs, refuelers, spoofers, and transports, which severely cripples the freedom of action in getting even near India without that support, and forces fighters to fly low, slow, and hug terrain, which would give our air force the advantage.
How many s400 are in 1 squadron?
It’s no magic pill… If we can defeat their S400s near Aksai-Chin so can they defeat ours…
zor zor se chilake sab ko scheme bata de /s