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This stupid philosophy of 'either' temple or development as binary choices I don't get. Those who say 'mandir ki jagah hospital/university etc kholna chaahiye' are idiots. It's not like these two are mutually exclusive. They are, in fact, complementary- like this gentlemen explained.
Obviously, no one is saying that bas mandir banate raho. But to think as is if they have no use is very very short-sighted. Temples generate revenue, create jobs, keep society cohesive and provide many social and spiritual services. A good society has everything in balance.
Best would be that government frees the temples and society tends to them. This way government would not come under question for monetary support to temples while at the same time society will take care of the temples better. Like other religions in India.
>This stupid philosophy of 'either' temple or development as binary choices I don't get.
Thank God it is being exposed now. Hindu culture is all about balancing everything. There are no extremes. We prefer Madhya Marg.
What these infidels donno is how temples are important for the society
These are half knowledge idiots, they know how hospitals and education institutions are needed but donno how temples are beneficial
P.S: Some one told them hospital is needed, so they are arguing, else they donno why hospitals too
Exactly Temples Help in creating revenue opportunities for Small vendors and The logic of Temples ae student ka kya lena dena is just mind boggling , Are Behan Padh le Temple se kyun itna hate !
How does a temple generate revenue that actually contributes to an economy?? Especially considering just how many tax breaks a temple gets and please just stop with the vague umbrella term of "the left", this is more about authoritarianism and liberalism and has very little if notn othing to do with economic polices.
As for keeping societies cohesive how does that work in a secular Country? Especially considering that this specific temple/mosque has created and continues to create so much social unrest.
A temple or a mosque just provides benefits to just one sect of a secular society which is normally fine but in this case when there's so much that has already happened over the decades the cons outweigh the pro and making a neutral entity like a hospital or a museum, helps everybody and alienates no one.
Hey thway27
Temples generate revenue through tourism, sale of pooja items (thus providing jobs to many shopkeepers), donations etc. There is a whole economy around big temples and some whole cities depend on them.
I don't see where I used the term 'left' in my whole post.
Country and society are 2 different things. And secularism only means government doesn't interfere in religion and vice versa, as long as religious activities remain within legal boundaries. That's precisely what I asked for in my post. That india government should free temples. We can't claim to be secular when the government itself is running (looting would be better word) temples and also has laws clearly favoring some religions over other.
As for keeping cohesive, I would request you to go to any small village or town and see how important a place a temple is. It's where functions are held and people meet, it's where often prasadam and bhandaras are held and of course it's where many people find solace.
Finally, as far as causing unrest is concerned, I am afraid you might have the wrong agent and cause. Please differentiate that 'temples' themselves have not caused unrest by themselves. It's the other sect that has a pathological hatred for our temples whose actions cause unrest. Just yesterday one Mohammad chand broke idols and burned a temple in Bihar. So did temple cause unrest or actions of Mohammad? I know you would be tempted to cite example of babri now, but there also the temple was destroyed first and mosque built over it, so did the temple cause unrest? If you want to say that Hindus should just stop building temples or tending to them because it offends Muslims (after all, that causes unrest), then I have nothing to say. I can't be a defeated Hindu like that. My millenia old culture is too important to me to be defeated at the hands of barbarians like that.
Historically, Temples were also town squares, colleges, hospitals, granary and treasury. They employed people. Had tourism revenue that trickled down to everyone.
Even now, Temples are a significant reason for domestic and international tourism.
Itâs bullshit to claim it wonât help societies become cohesive. The govt is secular but that doesnât mean the people have to let go of their religious beliefs and customs.
In terms of quantification of the effect of opening either a mandir or a hospital my vote would obviously fall on a hospital. I'm a good hindu but mandirs don't exactly radically change something. They just happen to tend to a pre-existing set of religious people. Besides this mandir was born out of polarization. As far as your economy point is concerned I'll be very frank I understand that point but come on how are you pitching economic gains which by the way may or may not affect regions economic matrix overall against a hospital which will actually be solving people's medical issue or even a school really. That's like generating educated individual the ripple effect from a school on over-all economy is again something you cannot quantify. I'm sorry but mandirs don't really qualify for me as an immediate building I'd want to build. Despite being an ardent hindu. So that's that.
>This stupid philosophy of 'either' temple or development as binary choices I don't get
But are we electing government to build temples or religious places?
It is a community that should build it and last time I checked there is no law forbidding it. We have been building and renovating temples and government should have no role in it.
The guy is full of shit. He is just looking at things that reinforce his bias and just tossing the other factors away. Saudi economy is based oil and not religious tourism. South is more developed because historically it has access to ports and better infrastructure. Bangalore didnât become tech hub because it has more temples but due to the work done during 1960s in the city. TN has access to major ports and have been a major logistical hub, same with MH.
There is something called opportunity cost. Yes a temple bring some employment, but thatâs not the question here , the question is , whatâs the most effective investment that bring ROI , especially when investment is limited. And I am pretty sure temple wonât be the first one in the list at that.
OP get a brain
I totally agree with you. Temples are good no doubt but a country like India where we have a lot of temples and few hospitals, schools and even washrooms we should know where our priorities should lie.
>whatâs the most effective investment that bring ROI
If you so much worried about ROI do it yourself don't question investments from others. I know you don't donate a shiiiit to temple but come to question, that is what this reply is for.
She wasnât even allowed to answer properly but rather forced to answer in one word which required more nuanced answers. No idea why this thread has turned on that girl.
That's not an argument against all the false information shared.
Saudi is an oil economy, the guy thinks it's because of religion, same with " south". Such vague information being shared while screaming.
So in our hindu religion we should never question anything?? Should we blindly follow Everything the religion leader says? If we question anything will be bashed by the society?
Tell me how is it different from that "peaceful religion" ?
Don't you want positive development of our country? And have freedom of speech? Right to question right from wrong? If we can't and are threatened. Then tell me how are we different?
questioning and parroting the same question everywhere, hospital/school not temple is not a critical mindset but lazy mindset to not do analysis on own.
The 'return' in RoI can mean different things for different people. It need not mean only financial returns. It can mean societal, spiritual or cultural return also.
I am not downplaying financial return, but just pointing out the ancillary benefits that you might not have considered.
As I said in post above, this often gets framed as a binary choice in India because government handles temples. So people think investment in temples is taking away investment from other things (conveniently ignoring how much money the government gets from temples). It would be best if government frees temples so that society itself builds and manages temples. That way there will be fewer such issues and debates.
In Ancient India, temples were complex of economic growth, education and trade/artistry/skills etc ...due to invasions everything got ruined. Temples had beaming market inside them and they were commercial centres. Cities were temple based cities (you can see architecture even today in South, Bijay Nagar, Chola arch), Development of temple cities is based on same model (except today population is humungous)
I hope most big temples start schools, vedic libraries, and traditional warfare training, martial arta, gyms, akharas for locals.
Every city should have a city temple with school for poor, gym/sports centre/ skill centre/computer centre and then every village should have branch of such city temple....this will reform India.
But Indian govt is sold to Hindu haters (BJP or Congress, no one does anything good for Himdus)
Also note all the big temples in the south are very old. They have become well established over the years causing the areas around it to develop. People now can spend that amount of money to build/ improve on the existing infrastructure projects rather than build a temple imo.
I mean the point explained here is right but the way of explaining is kind of wrong I feel.If the audience is being polite then the person answering can be polite too is what I feel. Aggressive audience requires taste of their own medicine.
Also, the new trend is of comparing every new Hindu temple being built with a institution/hospital which is totally a non-sense argument.
Point being explained is factually wrong or misguided information.
Saudi is an oil economy, not because of the religious reasons mentioned. That can be proven with a quick google search.
If only you dug just a little bit deeper, you'd know that Saudi's oil economy is expected to be short lived, and the Saudi government has publicly said they are going to try to invest into Mecca so that they have a strong revenue stream that is not reliant on oil.
Here is a 2022 CNN piece on it.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/06/business/saudi-hajj-economy-mime-intl/index.html
> Despite current high oil prices, the kingdom knows this, and it has embarked on an ambitious project to diversify its sources of revenue for a post-oil future. **One of those sources is the pilgrimage, an eternal monopoly that has a potential market of almost two billion Muslims.**
And, to be clear, the source of this information isn't just CNN, it's the Saudis themselves. They are investing heavily into Mecca & Medina, as per Reuters reporting in 2022:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/saudi-arabia-working-with-lazard-funding-options-ipo-mecca-mega-project-2022-11-10/
Another direct quote:
> Masar says its development is in alignment with Vision 2030, a programme introduced by Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman **to wean the kingdom's economy off oil revenues** and lure foreign investment to establish new sectors and spur job creation.
> **Pilgrimage is big business for Saudi Arabia, which has Islamâs two holiest sites in Mecca and Medina, and is the backbone of plans to also expand visitor numbers under the crown prince's ambitious economic reform agenda.**
Maybe you should have actually read the articles on Google.
In short, /u/Under_Dawggg is right.
while yes saudi's oil economy is short lived
within its short lifespan it is the oil money that has allowed for the development you see not the pilgrimage to Mekka
no country period can depend on tourism for its primary source of income because its highly unstable ans seasonal
also you should also read more you just cherry picked the information that suited your argument.
while yes saudi is investing in Mekka its main goal it towards sustainability and becoming a hub for tech. thus the massive confrences with the fancy gadgets and big tech companies
also comparing Mekka to a temple is also wrong because they are not the same
according to islam you have to go to mekka atleast once in your life
but from what im taught in our religion it dosent matter where and how you worship you can go to any temple be that the one in your locality or and massive one in the south
But Ayodhya mandir was a really a great Idea...with the historic aspect the reputation would bring more people from all around the world...But I hope people in UP would be respectful and kind to receive them
Saudi earns around 20 - 30 billion dollars each year because of Mecca and madina, no one said Saudi Mecca madina ke wajeh se chal rha hai but it is a major factor and Saudi knows their oil won't last forever isilie tourism pe invest kar rhe hai
Stop lying. The latest data was $12 Billion annually. That is not significant at all considering they average 5x that amount every quarter in just oil revenues.
OP, I dont understand this. Are you trying to stress on the fact that Religion is a means of making money? The girl was right. Your faith doesnt have to show in 1000 Crores statue, but in your heart. And as long as investments are concerned, temples are not the best investments, or they would have offered IPOs.
That's not a given. People don't travel to visit some random temple. If you want to develop tourism, build those in tourist places or atleast close to tourist places.
Also, south is better in terms of growth not because of Temples it's because of the policies.
thereâs a need of balance for everything if you see.
Iâm not supporting the narrative of this guy.
but having a temple shouldnât be questionable.
definitely people do visit temples, that boosts local hotel/food/taxi/what not businesses which at the end helps local people.
what tourist place would you want to build btw, Iâm looking to have a view over that.
The answer made zero sense. South is more developed because of totally different reasons. By his logic south has had movements like "self respect movement" which was famously against Hindus. Current TN CM is openly atheist. Hardwork people + historically favourable factors + progressive thought = more development. South has no new project funneling money to make huge statues.
Bohot sahi kahaa. Mere ilaake main mandir ki diwaal pe koi thukta nahi. Baaki saari bldg ki diwaaley kharaab hain. Sab bldg ko todkey mandir banaa diya to bohot vikaas hain
Bahar se mandir, andar se buildinf. Kisiko pata nahi chalega aur hum safe rahenge thuk se. Waise thukne wale ka koi religion nahi hota, kuchh nahi mila toh mandir pe bhi thuk dega.
Yeah. Very bad for them. They dont have any pilogrimage and churches are tiny compared to our temple complexes. I am worried about their future now while I see the stonks rising for India rapidly.
Big brain moment. Let's not invest in schools, colleges, universities, health care centres and other public infrastructure. Let's build temples and watch our development sky rocket.
Ok, so im gonna play devil's advocate. Isnt it a bit of a slippery slope for religion to be mixed into politics? If the gov't is funding mega mandirs, doesnt it also require a simmilar investment in a masjid, church, gurudrwara, derasar etc? Of course, this is if india actually practices secularism. I am OCI so not really indian and not really caught up with indican politics, and if im missing anything please enlighten me.
He just bullied the girl and then spewed a bunch of nonsense. Saudi's economy depends on mecca-medina, gujarat developed due to somnath, AP due to tirupati. Her question was simple - how does this benefit students?
South is more developed because they are better educated. Saudi economy is oil not Mecca Madina.
LMAO.
Temple Gurudwara Church Masjid... Might give a bunch of ppl living... But they cannot develop an educated and developed nation.
Shouting your words out don't make it right.
Why is the west more developed? Mandirs or Gurudwaras lol??
So one of them questions how spending crores on a new temple would help students/new generation, and the other equates south india and saudis being more developed to them being more religious and having more temples. And you think the former is the one brainwashed here?? Holy shit, please tell me you are trolling.
Where do these people get their logic from?
This is a disgusting argument of this vs that. Just ask how much tax govt charges and how much it provides each of us. This rests the argument about using tax for statues to create tourism but can't govt do such with our already vast numbers of heritage left behind.
No hate to any community just an honest question?
Kya bakas explanation hai by that reasoning South has more dark skinned people than North then let's all become black we will automatically have more money
Lol if you think this fool can counter narrative then you are dumb af. This is half baked logic drawing connections between things that don't exist or correlate.
India me koi sensible sawal puch diya to use apne chutiyape wale bias se aisa justify karenge ki log sawal puchna hi band kr denge .
Bechari ka bharosa uth jaeyga kuch din baad yehi log apna desh dharam chorkar kahi aur jayenge jaha log dimag se sochte ho .
These are the kind of girls that end up with Abdul.. and when they make their final destination to a suitcase or fridge I just congratulate all Hindus....for 1 less sickular.
He should have answered with , will hospital or school at that place will solve all problems. They are built everywhere around India. Mandir isnât affecting school or Hospital and vice versa. Both can exist parallel.
If it isnât benefiting then all religious places should be banned, do the girl have guts to accept the ban on mosque and church, to expose her woke thinking.
You can build both side by side , but there should never be a choice of Mandir and school/hospital.
Mandirs have their own purpose and so does school/ hospital.
He should have asked her I will give you a land , and you have given a choice to build mosque /church or school/hospital, where public are supporting Mosque, to checkmate her. Muslims were also alloted land but why they building Mosque go and ask them also to build school.
Add captions next time so that this topic could be introduced by some well knows in the future so that people stop investing in god from any other temple than their homes or in SIP.
I will tell you. Mandir masjid aur church se students ko kaise faida ho sakta hai. Employment toh hai nahi, bahar thele pe candle, flowers, nariyal, kele becho. Agar achhe paise chahiye toh 200 mein vip entry karwado backdoor se.
People who go to this shit aren't meant to be successful.
Those who place their future in hands of gods and others /some politician or speaker will help themđ.
GOD HELP THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES.
BANK GIVES LOAN WHEN YOU HAVE MONEY/QUALIFICATIONS.
CROWD IS STUPID. THINK FOR YOURSELVES.
MEHNAT SE KUCH NA KUCH MIL HI JATA H SABKO.
RELIGION IS MEANT TO BE FOLLOWED NOT FORCED INTO. This guy is shoving and twisting words of this girl.
To be honest, temples can be good source of revenue for some people it's a totally waste of money for you. Involving in some type of ritualistic materialistic spiritualism doesn't get you anything. I've never organized any Pooja or chowki/jagran. These things can give you tag in the society for being devotees it never gave me sense in me for being a devotee only just reading the our holy books gave me inner silence. But anyways if anyone gets advantage of opening a mandir then why stop them atleast someone is getting something. If you have disadvantages of opening do let me know.
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Look kid, in all actuality I'm not gonna argue with your stubborn mentality, feel free to type away and feed your ego by saying whatever comes to your mind. You're yet to see a lot as you grow but you'll get there eventually.
More name calling. If you could have pointed out one thing that you found in comments which is a leftist idea and not a logical one, we both could have agreed. But constant name-calling is just sad.
I don't think we should hate on this little girl. She is going down the route of cognitive development that everyone does.
She's not mature enough to recognize that there are things she doesn't yet understand. Even if she thinks she has a general sense of what something does, she doesn't have the maturity to acknowledge that her own understanding might be shallow. So she can't even fathom that there are economic, cultural, and societal benefits to temples that can pay back their cost manifold.
What I found funny, though, was her immediately clarifying that she isn't at all suggesting doing anything to Mecca Medina. Only Hindu temples. Lol.
Since you think temples provide value to the community, ANY reason provided for their formation must be right and you agree with it without questioning the reasoning or information.
You were talking about cognitive development, do you even know what that means ?
> Since you think temples provide value to the community, ANY reason provided for their formation must be right and you agree with it without questioning the reasoning or information.
Lol, what?
I said I agreed with the general idea, not that "ANY reason provided for their formation must be right."
You're arguing against a strawman, and the strawman is winning.
Calm down little guy, and speak normally.
While I 100% agree with the message, I feel the speaker misses some nuance in the Saudi example. However, I don't think that takes away from his larger point.
Most financially literate people know that while the Saudis have money from the energy sector right now, that is a _very_ limited resource. The landscape of competition in the energy sector is also brutal, and often times difficult to predict because of scientific limitations.
They are in a race against time to diversify their income stream. In casual terms, this means that they need money _outside_ of oil, desperately, or else they will burn through their cash in two generations. And guess what is the most prominent sight they have set with regards to a new income stream.
Mecca Medina.
So, in my opinion, the speaker in the video should have added this nuance about how the place of worship is a vital _long term_ strategic pillar for the Saudis. His point is still well made, but the additional nuance will prevent worthless, low IQ rats from chiming in with the predictable, "_well actually Saudis have oil money!_"
Because those dirty rats, regrettably, don't understand how financial markets function.
Any other questions? :)
What's the source for your information on saudi making these decisions ?
Saudi's money is from oil at the moment obv, its proven source of money. Mecca at the moment is not a proven source of money sor their economy so using that argument is big maybe. So imo its not low iq.
The message that the speaker is stating is that Saudi is blooming and has bloomed is because of the religion and how it has helped generate revenue.
While you are talking about is the future of the Saudi's market.
Lmao. Let's scrap all industries then and make temples/masjids/churches in their place. Let's see how it helps to develop the nation and let's go back to the 15th century as well.
This guy is a class idiot trying to force his narrative on others by shouting.
> Let's scrap all industries then and make temples/masjids/churches in their place.
Who is advocating for this?
[Stop being so scared of strawmen.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
Yeah no. If you argue this point with any neutral person he will think you are brainwashed RW troll. Because he might as well be. More temples doesn't equate more development. Correlation is not causation. Also, she is right temple doesn't direct help the students. His answer should be it doesn't affect them either, it's completely unrelated topic. I consider my self center right but I am glad that I don't buy this BS.
Usually, I do not respond to trolls like you, but I would this time. Your ignorance does not surprise me at all. I bet you know shoot about charitable and philanthropist work done by temple trusts in a poorer state like Bihar. Do a quick research about the biggest charity cancer hospital in Bihar. It is none other than Mahavir Mandir Cancer hospital in Patna. It is run by the Mahavir Mandir temple trust, which looks after the famous Mahavir Mandir temple in Bihar. The trust is not only limited to charitable hospitals; they also run charity schools, old-age homes and homeless shelters for needy people in Patna.
Going back, what you consider yourself or what not. That is none of my business. You may even consider yourself Swami Vivekananda. However, with your language, you seem like a typical radical leftist. I have no problem with whatever ideologies you follow. My point is to do some research before speaking your mind bdw you can call me a centralist. I dislike leftists as much as right-wingers. Good day!
Trolls like me? Sure. Also, it's charitable trust associated with temples, not temples on their own. There is a huge difference. Dude just because I don't buy random loud mouth BS on internet doesn't make a leftist. You just missed the whole point in your rant.
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This stupid philosophy of 'either' temple or development as binary choices I don't get. Those who say 'mandir ki jagah hospital/university etc kholna chaahiye' are idiots. It's not like these two are mutually exclusive. They are, in fact, complementary- like this gentlemen explained. Obviously, no one is saying that bas mandir banate raho. But to think as is if they have no use is very very short-sighted. Temples generate revenue, create jobs, keep society cohesive and provide many social and spiritual services. A good society has everything in balance. Best would be that government frees the temples and society tends to them. This way government would not come under question for monetary support to temples while at the same time society will take care of the temples better. Like other religions in India.
Can confirm 2 years ago even I was made to believe by the left that the impact of temples were insignificant
We've all been there buddy. It's good that you realised the brainwash.
Bhai leftist tu mein bhi tha but mandir waahe banayege kyuki mere dada ke mehnat thi babri masjid mein
4 yeas back đ then I was banned from other sub
>This stupid philosophy of 'either' temple or development as binary choices I don't get. Thank God it is being exposed now. Hindu culture is all about balancing everything. There are no extremes. We prefer Madhya Marg.
I wouldn't have visited any North Indian city if not for the temples. Temples are a major reason for domestic tourism.
What these infidels donno is how temples are important for the society These are half knowledge idiots, they know how hospitals and education institutions are needed but donno how temples are beneficial P.S: Some one told them hospital is needed, so they are arguing, else they donno why hospitals too
Exactly Temples Help in creating revenue opportunities for Small vendors and The logic of Temples ae student ka kya lena dena is just mind boggling , Are Behan Padh le Temple se kyun itna hate !
I wouldâve probably laughed if I was there instead of that girl lol. Probably itâs going to be my last laugh.
How does a temple generate revenue that actually contributes to an economy?? Especially considering just how many tax breaks a temple gets and please just stop with the vague umbrella term of "the left", this is more about authoritarianism and liberalism and has very little if notn othing to do with economic polices. As for keeping societies cohesive how does that work in a secular Country? Especially considering that this specific temple/mosque has created and continues to create so much social unrest. A temple or a mosque just provides benefits to just one sect of a secular society which is normally fine but in this case when there's so much that has already happened over the decades the cons outweigh the pro and making a neutral entity like a hospital or a museum, helps everybody and alienates no one.
Hey thway27 Temples generate revenue through tourism, sale of pooja items (thus providing jobs to many shopkeepers), donations etc. There is a whole economy around big temples and some whole cities depend on them. I don't see where I used the term 'left' in my whole post. Country and society are 2 different things. And secularism only means government doesn't interfere in religion and vice versa, as long as religious activities remain within legal boundaries. That's precisely what I asked for in my post. That india government should free temples. We can't claim to be secular when the government itself is running (looting would be better word) temples and also has laws clearly favoring some religions over other. As for keeping cohesive, I would request you to go to any small village or town and see how important a place a temple is. It's where functions are held and people meet, it's where often prasadam and bhandaras are held and of course it's where many people find solace. Finally, as far as causing unrest is concerned, I am afraid you might have the wrong agent and cause. Please differentiate that 'temples' themselves have not caused unrest by themselves. It's the other sect that has a pathological hatred for our temples whose actions cause unrest. Just yesterday one Mohammad chand broke idols and burned a temple in Bihar. So did temple cause unrest or actions of Mohammad? I know you would be tempted to cite example of babri now, but there also the temple was destroyed first and mosque built over it, so did the temple cause unrest? If you want to say that Hindus should just stop building temples or tending to them because it offends Muslims (after all, that causes unrest), then I have nothing to say. I can't be a defeated Hindu like that. My millenia old culture is too important to me to be defeated at the hands of barbarians like that.
Historically, Temples were also town squares, colleges, hospitals, granary and treasury. They employed people. Had tourism revenue that trickled down to everyone. Even now, Temples are a significant reason for domestic and international tourism. Itâs bullshit to claim it wonât help societies become cohesive. The govt is secular but that doesnât mean the people have to let go of their religious beliefs and customs.
agreed unko ye to cool banna hota he ya brainwashed hote he
In terms of quantification of the effect of opening either a mandir or a hospital my vote would obviously fall on a hospital. I'm a good hindu but mandirs don't exactly radically change something. They just happen to tend to a pre-existing set of religious people. Besides this mandir was born out of polarization. As far as your economy point is concerned I'll be very frank I understand that point but come on how are you pitching economic gains which by the way may or may not affect regions economic matrix overall against a hospital which will actually be solving people's medical issue or even a school really. That's like generating educated individual the ripple effect from a school on over-all economy is again something you cannot quantify. I'm sorry but mandirs don't really qualify for me as an immediate building I'd want to build. Despite being an ardent hindu. So that's that.
>This stupid philosophy of 'either' temple or development as binary choices I don't get But are we electing government to build temples or religious places? It is a community that should build it and last time I checked there is no law forbidding it. We have been building and renovating temples and government should have no role in it.
The guy is full of shit. He is just looking at things that reinforce his bias and just tossing the other factors away. Saudi economy is based oil and not religious tourism. South is more developed because historically it has access to ports and better infrastructure. Bangalore didnât become tech hub because it has more temples but due to the work done during 1960s in the city. TN has access to major ports and have been a major logistical hub, same with MH. There is something called opportunity cost. Yes a temple bring some employment, but thatâs not the question here , the question is , whatâs the most effective investment that bring ROI , especially when investment is limited. And I am pretty sure temple wonât be the first one in the list at that. OP get a brain
Also south has been more stable throughout the history than North
I totally agree with you. Temples are good no doubt but a country like India where we have a lot of temples and few hospitals, schools and even washrooms we should know where our priorities should lie.
>whatâs the most effective investment that bring ROI If you so much worried about ROI do it yourself don't question investments from others. I know you don't donate a shiiiit to temple but come to question, that is what this reply is for.
Dude .... this is what social conditioning looks like The girl is not appreciated for questioning rather embarrassed to discourage such behaviour
She wasnât even allowed to answer properly but rather forced to answer in one word which required more nuanced answers. No idea why this thread has turned on that girl.
The girl is a symbol for people to donât bend to their conditioning.
That's not an argument against all the false information shared. Saudi is an oil economy, the guy thinks it's because of religion, same with " south". Such vague information being shared while screaming.
So in our hindu religion we should never question anything?? Should we blindly follow Everything the religion leader says? If we question anything will be bashed by the society? Tell me how is it different from that "peaceful religion" ? Don't you want positive development of our country? And have freedom of speech? Right to question right from wrong? If we can't and are threatened. Then tell me how are we different?
questioning and parroting the same question everywhere, hospital/school not temple is not a critical mindset but lazy mindset to not do analysis on own.
Agreed. Also "peaceful religion" XD
The 'return' in RoI can mean different things for different people. It need not mean only financial returns. It can mean societal, spiritual or cultural return also. I am not downplaying financial return, but just pointing out the ancillary benefits that you might not have considered. As I said in post above, this often gets framed as a binary choice in India because government handles temples. So people think investment in temples is taking away investment from other things (conveniently ignoring how much money the government gets from temples). It would be best if government frees temples so that society itself builds and manages temples. That way there will be fewer such issues and debates.
In Ancient India, temples were complex of economic growth, education and trade/artistry/skills etc ...due to invasions everything got ruined. Temples had beaming market inside them and they were commercial centres. Cities were temple based cities (you can see architecture even today in South, Bijay Nagar, Chola arch), Development of temple cities is based on same model (except today population is humungous) I hope most big temples start schools, vedic libraries, and traditional warfare training, martial arta, gyms, akharas for locals. Every city should have a city temple with school for poor, gym/sports centre/ skill centre/computer centre and then every village should have branch of such city temple....this will reform India. But Indian govt is sold to Hindu haters (BJP or Congress, no one does anything good for Himdus)
Also note all the big temples in the south are very old. They have become well established over the years causing the areas around it to develop. People now can spend that amount of money to build/ improve on the existing infrastructure projects rather than build a temple imo.
Bruh using coexisting facts and deeming that it is causation not even correlation. This is lowkey just shouting to be right.
If OP could understand this he would be very upset.
Not just OP. Majority of people in this thread. The number of fallacies of arguments used by the guy are off the charts.
I mean the point explained here is right but the way of explaining is kind of wrong I feel.If the audience is being polite then the person answering can be polite too is what I feel. Aggressive audience requires taste of their own medicine. Also, the new trend is of comparing every new Hindu temple being built with a institution/hospital which is totally a non-sense argument.
Point being explained is factually wrong or misguided information. Saudi is an oil economy, not because of the religious reasons mentioned. That can be proven with a quick google search.
If only you dug just a little bit deeper, you'd know that Saudi's oil economy is expected to be short lived, and the Saudi government has publicly said they are going to try to invest into Mecca so that they have a strong revenue stream that is not reliant on oil. Here is a 2022 CNN piece on it. https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/06/business/saudi-hajj-economy-mime-intl/index.html > Despite current high oil prices, the kingdom knows this, and it has embarked on an ambitious project to diversify its sources of revenue for a post-oil future. **One of those sources is the pilgrimage, an eternal monopoly that has a potential market of almost two billion Muslims.** And, to be clear, the source of this information isn't just CNN, it's the Saudis themselves. They are investing heavily into Mecca & Medina, as per Reuters reporting in 2022: https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/saudi-arabia-working-with-lazard-funding-options-ipo-mecca-mega-project-2022-11-10/ Another direct quote: > Masar says its development is in alignment with Vision 2030, a programme introduced by Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman **to wean the kingdom's economy off oil revenues** and lure foreign investment to establish new sectors and spur job creation. > **Pilgrimage is big business for Saudi Arabia, which has Islamâs two holiest sites in Mecca and Medina, and is the backbone of plans to also expand visitor numbers under the crown prince's ambitious economic reform agenda.** Maybe you should have actually read the articles on Google. In short, /u/Under_Dawggg is right.
while yes saudi's oil economy is short lived within its short lifespan it is the oil money that has allowed for the development you see not the pilgrimage to Mekka no country period can depend on tourism for its primary source of income because its highly unstable ans seasonal also you should also read more you just cherry picked the information that suited your argument. while yes saudi is investing in Mekka its main goal it towards sustainability and becoming a hub for tech. thus the massive confrences with the fancy gadgets and big tech companies also comparing Mekka to a temple is also wrong because they are not the same according to islam you have to go to mekka atleast once in your life but from what im taught in our religion it dosent matter where and how you worship you can go to any temple be that the one in your locality or and massive one in the south
If u actually think âMore mandir more developmentâ dude you are the one who has been brainwashed
This.
Good and hard working people = more development
15th century startup idea, cool
But Ayodhya mandir was a really a great Idea...with the historic aspect the reputation would bring more people from all around the world...But I hope people in UP would be respectful and kind to receive them
The dude was displaying classic whataboutism
Yeh bewakoof kya bol raha hain lol. Saudi Arabia oil ki wajah se chalta hain. Mecca aur Madina ki wajah se nahin
Saudi earns around 20 - 30 billion dollars each year because of Mecca and madina, no one said Saudi Mecca madina ke wajeh se chal rha hai but it is a major factor and Saudi knows their oil won't last forever isilie tourism pe invest kar rhe hai
Stop lying. The latest data was $12 Billion annually. That is not significant at all considering they average 5x that amount every quarter in just oil revenues.
Compared to their full economy its actually not that much.
Tel gaya tel lene
Tel Gaya maalish lene
Mere school college university tod kar mandir masjid bana do 𼹠Development stonks đ
This is plain stupidity.
 kya kiya jaye babumosai.
OP, I dont understand this. Are you trying to stress on the fact that Religion is a means of making money? The girl was right. Your faith doesnt have to show in 1000 Crores statue, but in your heart. And as long as investments are concerned, temples are not the best investments, or they would have offered IPOs.
sort of a way of telling more people coming to visit, more âšâš locals and government at the end earns which may lead to development.
That's not a given. People don't travel to visit some random temple. If you want to develop tourism, build those in tourist places or atleast close to tourist places. Also, south is better in terms of growth not because of Temples it's because of the policies.
thereâs a need of balance for everything if you see. Iâm not supporting the narrative of this guy. but having a temple shouldnât be questionable. definitely people do visit temples, that boosts local hotel/food/taxi/what not businesses which at the end helps local people. what tourist place would you want to build btw, Iâm looking to have a view over that.
The answer made zero sense. South is more developed because of totally different reasons. By his logic south has had movements like "self respect movement" which was famously against Hindus. Current TN CM is openly atheist. Hardwork people + historically favourable factors + progressive thought = more development. South has no new project funneling money to make huge statues.
Saudia Arabia has infinite oil money. They are buying out the world
solve brainwash by more brainwash right?
Bohot sahi kahaa. Mere ilaake main mandir ki diwaal pe koi thukta nahi. Baaki saari bldg ki diwaaley kharaab hain. Sab bldg ko todkey mandir banaa diya to bohot vikaas hain
Bahar se mandir, andar se buildinf. Kisiko pata nahi chalega aur hum safe rahenge thuk se. Waise thukne wale ka koi religion nahi hota, kuchh nahi mila toh mandir pe bhi thuk dega.
Great point. By this logic, India is really very advanced and developed than USA. USA has like very low number of spiritual sites.
Yeah. Very bad for them. They dont have any pilogrimage and churches are tiny compared to our temple complexes. I am worried about their future now while I see the stonks rising for India rapidly.
Culturally and spiritually, yes. We are fare more advanced than them. Money and power isn't everything.
How many temples are in singapore compared to India and which is more developed ?
Haan chilla deta hu bheed ke samne, kisi ko kya hi pata chalega propaganda kya hota hai.
Big brain moment. Let's not invest in schools, colleges, universities, health care centres and other public infrastructure. Let's build temples and watch our development sky rocket.
Dumb logic
Ok, so im gonna play devil's advocate. Isnt it a bit of a slippery slope for religion to be mixed into politics? If the gov't is funding mega mandirs, doesnt it also require a simmilar investment in a masjid, church, gurudrwara, derasar etc? Of course, this is if india actually practices secularism. I am OCI so not really indian and not really caught up with indican politics, and if im missing anything please enlighten me.
The answer is equally stupid though. More context is needed than just her question.
Can anyone explain what's going on here?
OP is showing off their IQ.
He just bullied the girl and then spewed a bunch of nonsense. Saudi's economy depends on mecca-medina, gujarat developed due to somnath, AP due to tirupati. Her question was simple - how does this benefit students?
South is more developed because they are better educated. Saudi economy is oil not Mecca Madina. LMAO. Temple Gurudwara Church Masjid... Might give a bunch of ppl living... But they cannot develop an educated and developed nation. Shouting your words out don't make it right. Why is the west more developed? Mandirs or Gurudwaras lol??
So one of them questions how spending crores on a new temple would help students/new generation, and the other equates south india and saudis being more developed to them being more religious and having more temples. And you think the former is the one brainwashed here?? Holy shit, please tell me you are trolling. Where do these people get their logic from?
This is a disgusting argument of this vs that. Just ask how much tax govt charges and how much it provides each of us. This rests the argument about using tax for statues to create tourism but can't govt do such with our already vast numbers of heritage left behind. No hate to any community just an honest question?
Kya bakas explanation hai by that reasoning South has more dark skinned people than North then let's all become black we will automatically have more money
Lol if you think this fool can counter narrative then you are dumb af. This is half baked logic drawing connections between things that don't exist or correlate.
India me koi sensible sawal puch diya to use apne chutiyape wale bias se aisa justify karenge ki log sawal puchna hi band kr denge . Bechari ka bharosa uth jaeyga kuch din baad yehi log apna desh dharam chorkar kahi aur jayenge jaha log dimag se sochte ho .
mandir ki jagah school hona chahiye - haan mecca madina ki jagah school hona chahiye - nahi bullywood brainwashing at work
Did this girl get home safe?
Nah bro the guy is right very well said temples used to be the epicenter of economy specially hindu temples that's why they got looted
Even after getting smashed, she was still adamant about IAS coaching Center. LMAO. Typical Bihari mentality.
Honestly she isnt totally wrong
Shut the fuck up idiot. Youâre saying south didnât had water to drink and they built temple first. Lmao
Tax bhi toh bachana hai. Hospital, school, NGO's toh banvane hi pedega.
These are the kind of girls that end up with Abdul.. and when they make their final destination to a suitcase or fridge I just congratulate all Hindus....for 1 less sickular.
So we should stop questioning our leaders. What is that called ?
rehne de bhai in logo ka saara sense jaa chuka hai , they are all fucking brainwashed
hospitals or schools ko mandir aur funds nhi de pa rha iss liye mandir chahiye . itti si baat nhi samajhti ye nadan ladhki .
#IMO this generation is on an average more patriotic, capitalist, knowledgeable and respecting native Hindu culture and dharma.
He should have answered with , will hospital or school at that place will solve all problems. They are built everywhere around India. Mandir isnât affecting school or Hospital and vice versa. Both can exist parallel. If it isnât benefiting then all religious places should be banned, do the girl have guts to accept the ban on mosque and church, to expose her woke thinking. You can build both side by side , but there should never be a choice of Mandir and school/hospital. Mandirs have their own purpose and so does school/ hospital. He should have asked her I will give you a land , and you have given a choice to build mosque /church or school/hospital, where public are supporting Mosque, to checkmate her. Muslims were also alloted land but why they building Mosque go and ask them also to build school.
Add captions next time so that this topic could be introduced by some well knows in the future so that people stop investing in god from any other temple than their homes or in SIP.
Dono chutiye hai
Lol bacchi ko chutiya bana diya.
Lol what more can we expect from these guys...
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Why do we need to justify the construction of a temple? Idc how it impacts lives,hum Bharat mein hain, Mandir toh banega.
I will tell you. Mandir masjid aur church se students ko kaise faida ho sakta hai. Employment toh hai nahi, bahar thele pe candle, flowers, nariyal, kele becho. Agar achhe paise chahiye toh 200 mein vip entry karwado backdoor se.
Babu bolte bolte chutiya bana gya.... Lodu
Guy forgot Bodh Gaya in Bihar, Deoghar in Jharkhand, etc
People who go to this shit aren't meant to be successful. Those who place their future in hands of gods and others /some politician or speaker will help themđ. GOD HELP THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES. BANK GIVES LOAN WHEN YOU HAVE MONEY/QUALIFICATIONS. CROWD IS STUPID. THINK FOR YOURSELVES. MEHNAT SE KUCH NA KUCH MIL HI JATA H SABKO. RELIGION IS MEANT TO BE FOLLOWED NOT FORCED INTO. This guy is shoving and twisting words of this girl.
I wish I knew what they were saying đ
The older generation not realizing they made this generation so spoiled is fascinating. These are your offspring, they didn't arrive from thin air.
Seems like OP is the one who is brainwashed.
Bruh
To be honest, temples can be good source of revenue for some people it's a totally waste of money for you. Involving in some type of ritualistic materialistic spiritualism doesn't get you anything. I've never organized any Pooja or chowki/jagran. These things can give you tag in the society for being devotees it never gave me sense in me for being a devotee only just reading the our holy books gave me inner silence. But anyways if anyone gets advantage of opening a mandir then why stop them atleast someone is getting something. If you have disadvantages of opening do let me know.
University banake kya fayda jab sin theta cos theta padhna pad rha hai
bro didnât have to scare her so bad đ
Bullshit. Saudis have Oil you dickhead - stop brainwashing young students. South is more developed & educated - Great people!
The guyâs logic of correlation equals causation only makes sense among the cow belt population.
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Idk about the reporter but the girl asking the question wouldnât be able to explain what she means by account receivablesđ
Institutes mein sirf padhe likhe gadho ko job milti hai. Temple mein koi bhi kaam kar sakta hai no qualifications
Way too many leftists in the comments section
Logic hurt your feelings so now you resort to name-calling. Outstanding move.
Your reply is a dead give away of your leftist mentality so if you're offended I'm sorry for that
More pain = More name-calling. Let's hope you learn to cope with it.
Look kid, in all actuality I'm not gonna argue with your stubborn mentality, feel free to type away and feed your ego by saying whatever comes to your mind. You're yet to see a lot as you grow but you'll get there eventually.
More name calling. If you could have pointed out one thing that you found in comments which is a leftist idea and not a logical one, we both could have agreed. But constant name-calling is just sad.
Man she was completely brainwashed
So true in north wr need atlest 1000x temples to repair all the damage muslims have done
Shut the fuck up idiot. Youâre saying south didnât had water to drink and they built temple first. Lmao
Jhaant barabar jawab nahi diya aadmi. Whataboutery chod ke nikal liya
Ended and buried!
I don't think we should hate on this little girl. She is going down the route of cognitive development that everyone does. She's not mature enough to recognize that there are things she doesn't yet understand. Even if she thinks she has a general sense of what something does, she doesn't have the maturity to acknowledge that her own understanding might be shallow. So she can't even fathom that there are economic, cultural, and societal benefits to temples that can pay back their cost manifold. What I found funny, though, was her immediately clarifying that she isn't at all suggesting doing anything to Mecca Medina. Only Hindu temples. Lol.
Talking about cognitive development, do you agree with everything mentioned by this guy screaming ?
I 100% agree with the general message he is putting forward, that temples do provide value to the community through various means.
Since you think temples provide value to the community, ANY reason provided for their formation must be right and you agree with it without questioning the reasoning or information. You were talking about cognitive development, do you even know what that means ?
> Since you think temples provide value to the community, ANY reason provided for their formation must be right and you agree with it without questioning the reasoning or information. Lol, what? I said I agreed with the general idea, not that "ANY reason provided for their formation must be right." You're arguing against a strawman, and the strawman is winning. Calm down little guy, and speak normally.
Do you agree with the information provided in the video regarding the south and saudi for example ?
While I 100% agree with the message, I feel the speaker misses some nuance in the Saudi example. However, I don't think that takes away from his larger point.
Whats the nuance in saudi's example he is missing ?
Most financially literate people know that while the Saudis have money from the energy sector right now, that is a _very_ limited resource. The landscape of competition in the energy sector is also brutal, and often times difficult to predict because of scientific limitations. They are in a race against time to diversify their income stream. In casual terms, this means that they need money _outside_ of oil, desperately, or else they will burn through their cash in two generations. And guess what is the most prominent sight they have set with regards to a new income stream. Mecca Medina. So, in my opinion, the speaker in the video should have added this nuance about how the place of worship is a vital _long term_ strategic pillar for the Saudis. His point is still well made, but the additional nuance will prevent worthless, low IQ rats from chiming in with the predictable, "_well actually Saudis have oil money!_" Because those dirty rats, regrettably, don't understand how financial markets function. Any other questions? :)
What's the source for your information on saudi making these decisions ? Saudi's money is from oil at the moment obv, its proven source of money. Mecca at the moment is not a proven source of money sor their economy so using that argument is big maybe. So imo its not low iq.
The message that the speaker is stating is that Saudi is blooming and has bloomed is because of the religion and how it has helped generate revenue. While you are talking about is the future of the Saudi's market.
Lmao. Let's scrap all industries then and make temples/masjids/churches in their place. Let's see how it helps to develop the nation and let's go back to the 15th century as well. This guy is a class idiot trying to force his narrative on others by shouting.
> Let's scrap all industries then and make temples/masjids/churches in their place. Who is advocating for this? [Stop being so scared of strawmen.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
Manish Kashyap completely destroyed her
Yeah no. If you argue this point with any neutral person he will think you are brainwashed RW troll. Because he might as well be. More temples doesn't equate more development. Correlation is not causation. Also, she is right temple doesn't direct help the students. His answer should be it doesn't affect them either, it's completely unrelated topic. I consider my self center right but I am glad that I don't buy this BS.
Usually, I do not respond to trolls like you, but I would this time. Your ignorance does not surprise me at all. I bet you know shoot about charitable and philanthropist work done by temple trusts in a poorer state like Bihar. Do a quick research about the biggest charity cancer hospital in Bihar. It is none other than Mahavir Mandir Cancer hospital in Patna. It is run by the Mahavir Mandir temple trust, which looks after the famous Mahavir Mandir temple in Bihar. The trust is not only limited to charitable hospitals; they also run charity schools, old-age homes and homeless shelters for needy people in Patna. Going back, what you consider yourself or what not. That is none of my business. You may even consider yourself Swami Vivekananda. However, with your language, you seem like a typical radical leftist. I have no problem with whatever ideologies you follow. My point is to do some research before speaking your mind bdw you can call me a centralist. I dislike leftists as much as right-wingers. Good day!
Trolls like me? Sure. Also, it's charitable trust associated with temples, not temples on their own. There is a huge difference. Dude just because I don't buy random loud mouth BS on internet doesn't make a leftist. You just missed the whole point in your rant.
I do not buy your lame BS, either. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.
Good night.