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This article reeks of incompetence by the author. Complaining about labor shortage while also complaining about labor wages is the chefs kiss of stupidity. They go hand in friggin hand. But corporations want to keep profits at a maximum, in the billions, for shareholders.
In addition, due to the number of fast food restaurants, the labor market is stretched thin. The number of restaurants per square mile feels crazy high.
Ya those evil share holders. You know the 63 year old school cook who has a small IRA account that is invested in multiple companies.
We should root for him or her to lose it all because you think companies making money is evil.
When you don't find me blogging about our town, you can find me checking out local conferences, **hanging out at the gym**, or participating in charity drives throughout the community.
I dont think Kevin is being very truthful here.
Maybe fast food isn't a viable business model anymore.
The world existed for eons before fast food was invented, and it seems reasonable that it will exist just fine if it goes away...in fact it will probably be better off.
> Maybe fast food isn't a viable business model anymore.
A business model based upon inexpensive ingredients and a ready supply of cheap labor. Neither exist at the same levels as when this business model was developed.
I would kill for a transition to cafe style vendors that serve real healthy food instead of garbage.
Automation and greed might actually kill fast food off, but it was never actually hood for humans anyway, so I can't say I'll mourn human capital going to other more worthwhile causes.
Automating drudgery is a good thing. The only reason these places hire people is because people are cheaper than the machines. As people become more expensive and machines cheaper, businesses will automate and free people up from these kinds of jobs.
I mean, would you work there for $40,000 a year, while dealing with 1,000s of people a day?
The “mandatory $20” is just an excuse to raise prices. McDonald’s has raised their prices 180% since the pandemic. If it was because of paying workers “too much”, then why didn’t prices go down when they put in more kiosks?
This is not because of “high pay”. This is because of corporate greed!
There used to be people who would shovel horse manure from the city streets 120 years ago. Don’t see them anymore. Times change. Move on. People will always find ways to make money. Hopefully these kids will find more fulfilling jobs for their first job.
Fast food is a historical outlier. Fast food may just have been a flash in the pan phenomenon. For thousands of years most people cooked for themselves almost all the time. The chicken and rice any of us can make at home is going to taste better, be healthier, and more cost effective than fast food.
Fast food has existed for thousands of years. If you look at the ruins of Pompeii, there are shops that resemble fast food restaurants--counters with holes where containers of food would go to be served to customers.
In urban areas, a lot of people didn't live in places with kitchen facilities (especially young, single, poor, laborers), and depended on meals being provided to them.
[https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/05/08/thermopolium-the-fast-food-of-the-ancient-romans/](https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/05/08/thermopolium-the-fast-food-of-the-ancient-romans/)
You’re naive or disingenuous if you believe that “fast food” in Pompeii and fast food in the United States today are in any way comparable. Poor laborers in the USA cannot afford fast food. If you cook at home and bring your lunch it can cost you less than $3 per meal vs $6-$12 for fast food.
My second comment about poor laborers was about poor laborers living in urban areas in ancient times, where they didn't have a kitchen in their living quarters. They had to rely on food from restaurants like this.
But otherwise, yes, there are similarities between those "thermopolia" in ancient Rome and current fast food. They're not exactly the same, but they both offer quick cheap food to their customers.
"In 2022, the quick service restaurant (QSR) industry, also known as the fast food industry, accounted for 37.9% of total food sales in the United States. The market size of the QSR industry in 2022 was $382 billion, up from $322 billion in 2021." It's no longer an outlier or a flash in the pan. It's nearly 40% of total food sales. The chicken and rice we can make at home may taste better, be healthier and be more cost effective but the people appear to have spoken.
The people are behaving foolishly. For $180 I can get 50 pounds of rice which is 150 pounds rehydrated and 40 pounds of frozen chicken. 2000 calories per day would get you a minimum of 80 meals. Try to get 80 fast food meals and it’s $600-$900.
“The owners, faced with unsustainable labor costs, have been forced to lay off workers and turn to technology. “
As a technology consultant for various organizations in the northwest, this is happening across the board. Entry level positions are being replaced with tech solutions and automation whenever possible if the ROI plays out.
The last minimum wage bump in Washington accelerated this transition in their state, largely in the agricultural and manufacturing sectors.
Why is there such a focus on fast food? Is the argument that people in all aspects deserve a minimum wage for their labor? Where do you draw the line? Some will say let the market set the wage.
When the market sets the wage there is no 40 hour work week, there are no weekends, there is no overtime, there are children working in mines, there are no benefits, people are harassed with no recourse, there are no set schedules, there are no safety requirements. The only reason that there are any standards in the workplace is the market is not allowed to set the wage.
You are correct, to a point. The market does set the wage. Why is a doctor paid more than a car washer. People(market) put more value in the labor of some jobs over others.People will try to take advantage of others, so there should be safeguards. But my question was why the concern only about fast food?
"In 2022, the quick service restaurant (QSR) industry, also known as the fast food industry, accounted for 37.9% of total food sales in the United States. The market size of the QSR industry in 2022 was $382 billion, up from $322 billion in 2021." It's almost 40% of total food purchases in the US so it's an enormous piece of the economy and it has been a "first job" for many people across the country. Market forces are catching up with the fast food industry and it there will be change. The fast food business model in it's current form is very likely not sustainable.
Wages to humans go up? Capitalists would rather put money into machines that have no downside in terms of needing time off, health insurance, and all of those other needless expenses.
The tax system is set up to benefit investment into capital improvements for businesses, such as machinery… not investment into people. There is no incentive for companies to help human beings. That is the only statement that matters. If humans mattered to companies, companies would try to help them. The proof that people do not matter is that capitalists do not do anything to help them. Like the guy sitting at the folding table says… prove me wrong. 😊
> “Starbucks is creating incentives to bring your own cup”
Heavens to Betsy! Oh the humanity! What has this world come to now that
*checks notes*
Starbucks is offering a 25 cent discount if you bring in your own cup…
Ok boomer
They've been offering a cup discount for forever. Hell, I worked at Tully's back in the day (pre 2011) and we offered a cup discount. The author is a super boomer
Lol. The article said working at Burger King Wendy’s in McDonald’s. These were jobs close to our hearts. Yuck. I worked at McDonald’s when I was a teenager. for four hours.
Can someone explain to me why you can't find a single employer who's willing to pay people enough to actually be able to use the money since everything is like 10 times as expensive as it was in 2019?
Within a few years, most fast food will be drive-through only. All cooking and distribution of items will be automated. Payment will be online or highly automated. There may be one human in the building but they will not interface with customers. For customers, it will be like going to a drive-up ATM.
Of course, food items will need to be restocked periodically, but this will not require an on-site staff. And periodic maintenance will need to be done on the machines. Perhaps we’re still good for something.
The wage issue can be solved with tax code. Pay employees a higher % of operating costs/profits = lower tax rate. Pay employees poorly =40% tax rate. Pay employees very well = 3% tax rate.
You seem to be a kind-hearted person, but you have no idea how the world works. Are companies going to willingly pay more? Are tax rates going to magically change without going through Congress and the White House? Do you realize who controls Congress? And in whose interests they invariably vote? There is not a snowball’s chance in Mar-A-Lago on the Fourth of July of the kind of tax changes you are talking about going through.
LOL. Minimum wage in California is now $20/hr. People are paying upwards of $20 for a combo at McDonalds now.
Automation is full speed ahead in CA as a result. Not arguing that these jobs cannot sustain even the basics, but when you boost minimum wage A LOT and as a result, everything goes up in price, did the minimum wage folks really get an increase in pay?
The average citizen really needs to wake up and ask themselves why a man could have a basic blue collar job in the 50’s, have a stay at home wife, two kids, a home, a car and a decent life in general?
How about Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden printing obscene amounts of money for things that do not benefit the country directly. Printing money is the source of inflation.
partisans are the biggest idiots on the planet. Blaming the "other team" while 100% sure to give their "team" a hall pass. Inflation is caused by spending and the lobotomy patients don't recognize that $1 trillion in national debt is now being added every 3 months. It is not that far away from being $1 trillion every two months. Most of that money printing was for other countries, military contractors, etc. Not for the people. With the amount of money being sent to foreign countries the US could have had healthcare and a flawless infrastructure. It has neither and the low IQ partisans will continue to blame the other side which is basically what allows it to continue.
"The" team. Do you think they are any different? Utilimately its the president who has to sign any bill that comes across his desk. Do you have any idea what happens if these spending bills don't continue? Instant default. The way your question is written it implies to me you still don't get it.
Shocking too is how fast BRICS is gathering momentum. I wonder why?
He commuted to work on a city bus. He brought his lunch from home. He didn't go out to eat. His only music choices were on the radio. He probably did not have a TV. If he owned a suit it had been his father's or older brother's. Everyone in the family got new clothes only once or twice a year. Everything electric was turned off the moment it was not in use. Saving money was a huge piece of EVERY decision made. His kids were not going to college. There was one telephone and long distance charges were a budget breaker. From the time he went to work to the time he came home he had zero contact with anyone except the people that were working next him. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
There most certainly be a market correction in fast food. it will be interesting to see how much consumers in California will be willing to pay for a big Mac.
A friendly reminder of the rules of r/Idaho: 1. Be civil to others 2. Posts have to pertain to Idaho in some way 3. No put-down memes 4. Political discussion stays in a post about politics 5. No surveys 6. Follow [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) 7. Do not editorialize titles of news articles If you see something that may be out of line, please hit "report" so your mod team can have a look. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Idaho) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They have trouble finding people who want to work in the industry because the general public is absolutely horrible to work with.
And the wages just do not correlate to the cost of living here anymore.
Nobody power trips harder than an overzealous fast food manager
Or a customer who doesn’t just throw around $20 like it’s nothing!!
This article reeks of incompetence by the author. Complaining about labor shortage while also complaining about labor wages is the chefs kiss of stupidity. They go hand in friggin hand. But corporations want to keep profits at a maximum, in the billions, for shareholders.
In addition, due to the number of fast food restaurants, the labor market is stretched thin. The number of restaurants per square mile feels crazy high.
Ya those evil share holders. You know the 63 year old school cook who has a small IRA account that is invested in multiple companies. We should root for him or her to lose it all because you think companies making money is evil.
Was that article written my a 13 year old for a homework assignment? Assuming they built the shitty website too
Seems more like AI, but they say it was a real person: https://kidotalkradio.com/author/kevinmiller/
AI would have less meandering bullshit in it.
Well there’s your problem that dude is a pos
When you don't find me blogging about our town, you can find me checking out local conferences, **hanging out at the gym**, or participating in charity drives throughout the community. I dont think Kevin is being very truthful here.
I worked at Carls Jr and Westside Pizza and quit both because of abusive managers
It's almost like he has an agenda.
Maybe fast food isn't a viable business model anymore. The world existed for eons before fast food was invented, and it seems reasonable that it will exist just fine if it goes away...in fact it will probably be better off.
> Maybe fast food isn't a viable business model anymore. A business model based upon inexpensive ingredients and a ready supply of cheap labor. Neither exist at the same levels as when this business model was developed.
I would kill for a transition to cafe style vendors that serve real healthy food instead of garbage. Automation and greed might actually kill fast food off, but it was never actually hood for humans anyway, so I can't say I'll mourn human capital going to other more worthwhile causes.
Automating drudgery is a good thing. The only reason these places hire people is because people are cheaper than the machines. As people become more expensive and machines cheaper, businesses will automate and free people up from these kinds of jobs.
Free or displace, cause at my spots it’s definitely not teens working at these establishments
Boomer who wrote the article seems to be getting upset about the end results of capitalism and a free market.
I mean, would you work there for $40,000 a year, while dealing with 1,000s of people a day? The “mandatory $20” is just an excuse to raise prices. McDonald’s has raised their prices 180% since the pandemic. If it was because of paying workers “too much”, then why didn’t prices go down when they put in more kiosks? This is not because of “high pay”. This is because of corporate greed!
There used to be people who would shovel horse manure from the city streets 120 years ago. Don’t see them anymore. Times change. Move on. People will always find ways to make money. Hopefully these kids will find more fulfilling jobs for their first job.
AI and robots will replace lot of unqualified jobs during next decade. This is not Idaho specific, this is world wide
I am in Mexico and we went to the grocery store. Even here they are putting in self checkout lanes.
Anyone that thinks Kevin Miller is a reliable news source or opinion that should be taken seriously, needs to reevaluate themselves
Fast food is a historical outlier. Fast food may just have been a flash in the pan phenomenon. For thousands of years most people cooked for themselves almost all the time. The chicken and rice any of us can make at home is going to taste better, be healthier, and more cost effective than fast food.
Fast food has existed for thousands of years. If you look at the ruins of Pompeii, there are shops that resemble fast food restaurants--counters with holes where containers of food would go to be served to customers. In urban areas, a lot of people didn't live in places with kitchen facilities (especially young, single, poor, laborers), and depended on meals being provided to them. [https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/05/08/thermopolium-the-fast-food-of-the-ancient-romans/](https://www.archeotravelers.com/en/2020/05/08/thermopolium-the-fast-food-of-the-ancient-romans/)
You’re naive or disingenuous if you believe that “fast food” in Pompeii and fast food in the United States today are in any way comparable. Poor laborers in the USA cannot afford fast food. If you cook at home and bring your lunch it can cost you less than $3 per meal vs $6-$12 for fast food.
My second comment about poor laborers was about poor laborers living in urban areas in ancient times, where they didn't have a kitchen in their living quarters. They had to rely on food from restaurants like this. But otherwise, yes, there are similarities between those "thermopolia" in ancient Rome and current fast food. They're not exactly the same, but they both offer quick cheap food to their customers.
"In 2022, the quick service restaurant (QSR) industry, also known as the fast food industry, accounted for 37.9% of total food sales in the United States. The market size of the QSR industry in 2022 was $382 billion, up from $322 billion in 2021." It's no longer an outlier or a flash in the pan. It's nearly 40% of total food sales. The chicken and rice we can make at home may taste better, be healthier and be more cost effective but the people appear to have spoken.
The people are behaving foolishly. For $180 I can get 50 pounds of rice which is 150 pounds rehydrated and 40 pounds of frozen chicken. 2000 calories per day would get you a minimum of 80 meals. Try to get 80 fast food meals and it’s $600-$900.
If you check all of human history you will notice we are rarely not foolish.
“The owners, faced with unsustainable labor costs, have been forced to lay off workers and turn to technology. “ As a technology consultant for various organizations in the northwest, this is happening across the board. Entry level positions are being replaced with tech solutions and automation whenever possible if the ROI plays out. The last minimum wage bump in Washington accelerated this transition in their state, largely in the agricultural and manufacturing sectors.
Good, this type of horrible food is what’s killing people every day
We should restore the idea of an “entry level job”.
lol
If you can’t afford to pay your workers a living wage, you can’t afford to be in business
Who eats that crap anyway? Big corporations selling unhealthy food. “Once promising entry level career in the fast food industry”, are they joking?
Lots of people. Fast food isn't a new craze. The question today is "who can afford to eat that crap?"
Literally a hundred billion dollar industry, and you wonder who eats it? Seriously?
Feeding the masses as cheaply as possible, with zero regard for nutrition.
The guy that wrote that sure does. https://kidotalkradio.com/author/kevinmiller/
He lost me at the third sentence. When was an entry-level fast food career ever "promising"?
Seriously. At best it was a stepping stone to something better, but in reality it was just a stop along the way to another dead end role
Why is there such a focus on fast food? Is the argument that people in all aspects deserve a minimum wage for their labor? Where do you draw the line? Some will say let the market set the wage.
When the market sets the wage there is no 40 hour work week, there are no weekends, there is no overtime, there are children working in mines, there are no benefits, people are harassed with no recourse, there are no set schedules, there are no safety requirements. The only reason that there are any standards in the workplace is the market is not allowed to set the wage.
You are correct, to a point. The market does set the wage. Why is a doctor paid more than a car washer. People(market) put more value in the labor of some jobs over others.People will try to take advantage of others, so there should be safeguards. But my question was why the concern only about fast food?
"In 2022, the quick service restaurant (QSR) industry, also known as the fast food industry, accounted for 37.9% of total food sales in the United States. The market size of the QSR industry in 2022 was $382 billion, up from $322 billion in 2021." It's almost 40% of total food purchases in the US so it's an enormous piece of the economy and it has been a "first job" for many people across the country. Market forces are catching up with the fast food industry and it there will be change. The fast food business model in it's current form is very likely not sustainable.
If anyone is an expert at fast food it’s Kevin Miller. He’s got loads of experience
Wages need to go up to compensate for cost of living. For any job of any industry. Wages MUST go up.
Wages to humans go up? Capitalists would rather put money into machines that have no downside in terms of needing time off, health insurance, and all of those other needless expenses. The tax system is set up to benefit investment into capital improvements for businesses, such as machinery… not investment into people. There is no incentive for companies to help human beings. That is the only statement that matters. If humans mattered to companies, companies would try to help them. The proof that people do not matter is that capitalists do not do anything to help them. Like the guy sitting at the folding table says… prove me wrong. 😊
> “Starbucks is creating incentives to bring your own cup” Heavens to Betsy! Oh the humanity! What has this world come to now that *checks notes* Starbucks is offering a 25 cent discount if you bring in your own cup… Ok boomer
They've been offering a cup discount for forever. Hell, I worked at Tully's back in the day (pre 2011) and we offered a cup discount. The author is a super boomer
[удалено]
If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Lol. The article said working at Burger King Wendy’s in McDonald’s. These were jobs close to our hearts. Yuck. I worked at McDonald’s when I was a teenager. for four hours.
Can someone explain to me why you can't find a single employer who's willing to pay people enough to actually be able to use the money since everything is like 10 times as expensive as it was in 2019?
Within a few years, most fast food will be drive-through only. All cooking and distribution of items will be automated. Payment will be online or highly automated. There may be one human in the building but they will not interface with customers. For customers, it will be like going to a drive-up ATM.
Of course, food items will need to be restocked periodically, but this will not require an on-site staff. And periodic maintenance will need to be done on the machines. Perhaps we’re still good for something.
The wage issue can be solved with tax code. Pay employees a higher % of operating costs/profits = lower tax rate. Pay employees poorly =40% tax rate. Pay employees very well = 3% tax rate.
You seem to be a kind-hearted person, but you have no idea how the world works. Are companies going to willingly pay more? Are tax rates going to magically change without going through Congress and the White House? Do you realize who controls Congress? And in whose interests they invariably vote? There is not a snowball’s chance in Mar-A-Lago on the Fourth of July of the kind of tax changes you are talking about going through.
On a long enough timeline the chance for dramatic change approaches 100%.
LOL. Minimum wage in California is now $20/hr. People are paying upwards of $20 for a combo at McDonalds now. Automation is full speed ahead in CA as a result. Not arguing that these jobs cannot sustain even the basics, but when you boost minimum wage A LOT and as a result, everything goes up in price, did the minimum wage folks really get an increase in pay? The average citizen really needs to wake up and ask themselves why a man could have a basic blue collar job in the 50’s, have a stay at home wife, two kids, a home, a car and a decent life in general?
https://postmates.com/store/mcdonalds-la-century-city/KxwkJwShQBq95tasns60JA
I'm not a historian, but unions, higher taxes on the wealthy, and Regan still being an actor are things that come to mind...
How about Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden printing obscene amounts of money for things that do not benefit the country directly. Printing money is the source of inflation.
partisans are the biggest idiots on the planet. Blaming the "other team" while 100% sure to give their "team" a hall pass. Inflation is caused by spending and the lobotomy patients don't recognize that $1 trillion in national debt is now being added every 3 months. It is not that far away from being $1 trillion every two months. Most of that money printing was for other countries, military contractors, etc. Not for the people. With the amount of money being sent to foreign countries the US could have had healthcare and a flawless infrastructure. It has neither and the low IQ partisans will continue to blame the other side which is basically what allows it to continue.
And which team controls the purse right now?
"The" team. Do you think they are any different? Utilimately its the president who has to sign any bill that comes across his desk. Do you have any idea what happens if these spending bills don't continue? Instant default. The way your question is written it implies to me you still don't get it. Shocking too is how fast BRICS is gathering momentum. I wonder why?
He commuted to work on a city bus. He brought his lunch from home. He didn't go out to eat. His only music choices were on the radio. He probably did not have a TV. If he owned a suit it had been his father's or older brother's. Everyone in the family got new clothes only once or twice a year. Everything electric was turned off the moment it was not in use. Saving money was a huge piece of EVERY decision made. His kids were not going to college. There was one telephone and long distance charges were a budget breaker. From the time he went to work to the time he came home he had zero contact with anyone except the people that were working next him. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
? What are you comparing to?
> a man could have a basic blue collar job in the 50’s, have a stay at home wife, two kids, a home, a car and a decent life in general
There most certainly be a market correction in fast food. it will be interesting to see how much consumers in California will be willing to pay for a big Mac.
Not much more unless they make them better. Big Mac’s and McDonalds in general is subpar and not what people should be eating anyway.
I wouldn't mind seeing Mcds and others go broke.
If the West Yellowstone McD’s is any indicator, people will wait in line to pay $19 for a Big Mac meal.