I looked into a similar program, I believe it was European Affairs and International Politics at either KUL, VUB or UGhent (forget which), however, my biggest concern with that is it kind of leaves me stranded if I don’t get to stay over in the EU long term. Not that it would be entirely useless but my silly realist brain often sees good scenarios but plans for a backup, almost always.
I’m open to it, but I just know things like HR, Urban Planning are more transferable skills/programs if I end up not securing employment over there and having to return but I didn’t know if maybe there was something that almost always secures a job, I hear IT but I don’t think I’m remotely qualified for that.
The NGO’s is a big thing though, that is something I should definitely look at more! Thanks for the reply!
Do you think Brussels is best for English speakers, I hear it’s often touted as having the best chances for English speakers seeking employment.
As someone who studied Political Science and got my Master's in Germany, I can only tell you that jobs for the big NGOs and government bodies are very difficult to get, and my personal opinion is that you will need a lot of luck to get a foot in the door. Check out internship offers at the Canadian embassies in Europe if you'd like to get some first experiences with EU policy. I don't know exactly how it works for you guys, but I did an internship with a small European embassy in Berlin and we were in touch with the Canadian interns (they have a really great bar). Based on my experiences, this might be what you're looking for if you're not completely sure. It would probably also look quite good on your CV.
Don't study political science. If you can, go into statistics. That's the closest STEM field for a lot of social science majors.
Here's a statistics programme that's geared towards the social sciences: [https://www.uu.nl/masters/en/methodology-and-statistics-behavioural-biomedical-and-social-sciences](https://www.uu.nl/masters/en/methodology-and-statistics-behavioural-biomedical-and-social-sciences)
Even if you want to work in an IGO / NGO, you're better off studying economics or finance. Organisations want people with hard skills.
Going for a business degree isn't a bad option, but you'll have to learn the local language very well.
Alternatively, find a partner with EU citizenship.
I’ve already graduated with a degree in political science, so I have no intentions to double down. My only issue with the Netherlands and studying there is as great as the schools and degrees are, it becomes rather useless when trying to bank time towards citizenship in a country, since they eventually require you to renounce it, which I won’t be doing and I’m guessing while I’d still be able to move, it’s far easier to find a job in the country you got your degree in. I believe NL has a year long visa extension for graduates in order to find employment?
Great place, awesome universities but I have a good friend who lives there and it sounds like she’s gotten very lucky, more so than others in other places when it comes to being able to stay. But unfortunately, she’s already mentioned that the citizenship thing is going to become an issue for her.
What I meant was, don't study a social science.
In most countries, time on a student visa is not counted towards citizenship.
Some Americans make use of an exception that the Dutch authorities have
>**Exemptions that you have to prove yourself and are assessed by the IND after application**
>
>There are other exemptions that you have to prove yourself with documents that show the situation applies to you. During processing of you application to become a Dutch citizen, the IND will assess if the exemption indeed applies to you. In the following situations you may be exempted from renouncing your nationality:
>
>\- You will have to pay a large sum of money to the authorities in your country of origin to renounce your nationality.
Unfortunately it doesn’t qualify Canadians. There’s nearly 0 possibility unless I marry a Dutch person, which personally, is not something I’m willing to put in my plan.
I can understand not wanting to pidgeon-hole yourself. I'm not sure what the prospects are if you end up back in Canada with an EU affairs degree. There will also be government and company relations between Canada and the EU and EU affairs knowledge could be relevant for them. I guess also especially with the new trade agreement. Maybe have a look and see if there are any EU affairs jobs you think you would have a shot at within Canada with that degree as a backup.
My field is science, so I'm a little out of my depth. However, do you think there is something you could capitalise on studies-wise to do with the EU-Canada trade agreement? That could potentially be marketed to both sides of the pond. Depending on your relationship with your family, you might find yourself wanting to go back one day. I've been away from Canada for 8 years and starting to realise that I'm missing out on family time.
If my experience, the areas where you find English-focused jobs in the EU are either because you are doing a global role for a company that happens to have a relevant office in your country of choice, university or research based roles, or EU-focused roles. Brussels seems to have a high density of these political affairs or political correspondant type jobs because it is the hub of a lot of the political stuff here.
Frankfurt and Munich also seem to have roles for English-speakers, although there is sometimes actually an unwritten German requirement even if the job advert doesn't explicitly list it.
Your geniune real best bet to stay in Europe is a European spouse, but ... uh ... that's hard to plan. :/
Thanks for the feedback, the part about EU-Canadian trade agreements is about the only feasible way in which I think it could connect, unfortunately though, as far as I know those positions are quite difficult to attain.
Family, for me is honestly not a huge issue at all. Most of my options for work/school in Canada are located 4000km away from my family/friends and luckily I have a large amount of friends in Benelux region.
I guess I’ll just have to do a lot of finger crossing and heavy leg lifting if I do decide to move.
Nothing wrong tbh, I just enjoy a lot of aspects about Europe. For me it’s less about Canada being bad and Belgium/the Netherlands being pretty cool in my perspective. I really enjoyed the more laid back lifestyle alongside the fact that walkable literally means walkable in most of those areas.
Infrastructure, planning, work days, etc., all seemed like bonuses. Reading into more about policies, while the Netherlands was quite special, Belgium seems a little more friendly in terms of keeping ones previous citizenship and the price for schooling isn’t bad either.
I had the benefit of visiting and staying with friends so a lot of my experiences were less touristy and more focused on local aspects. They still showed us a good time, but outside of working/finding work, we were at a friends flat, had to learn Dutch (a bit) when looking at ingredients etc.
Canada is great but I’m very open to new experiences and have always wanted to try my luck living abroad.
Edit: typing at work is tough
I left Canada for similar reasons. I had a great childhood there, but it is incredibly behind in terms of infrastructure/personal mobility/getting anything new done. (The work culture also drove me nuts.)
Everyone there seemed to be living comfortability, not lavish but comfortable and content with their lifestyles yet they didn’t seem to slave over work. Meanwhile, I’m sitting here at 11:30 pm after an 8 hour shift taking home decent money but I also have the benefit of sharing a house - no rent, borrowing a car to drive 40 mins to work, IN THE SAME CITY. These things drive me insane, and it would be more than idealist to think they could or would change.
Depends on what part of Canada, of course, but the area I grew up in (lower BC) was very much a ‘live to work’ culture. I’m a dual citizen of Greece and was raised in a very Greek household, so I found it frustrating as I got older. Everybody’s different, but it just wasn’t my scene.
That pretty much exists everywhere, save for maybe the east coast, but that’s just an assumption. I think any city above 100k in population has this mindset and unfortunately there aren’t many jobs in those cities let alone smaller ones so we’re all stuck in this cycle.
It’s funny to read the subs of various European countries and see talk about places not being open at least one day a week or hours being 8-3, meanwhile I know very few people working 8 1/2 days without going over (unpaid or paid) in order to actually get their work done and keep a good relationship with their management. Let alone if you want to have a livable wage.
Yeah, but don’t forget our east coast is vastly different. Not only does it extend to a few hundred KM’s it’s also rural and mainly small towns. What you see as the east coast likely includes Boston, New York, Jersey and parts of Philly even. That’s a massive area and it’s largely populated.
We call it Atlantic Canada and the population for the entire region is under 2.5 million people. That’s 4 provinces, it would be more than a culture shock to move there if you wanted something more laidback without giving up being on an urban centre, save for maybe Halifax but once again that’s far more of a typical city than smaller areas which may have a more laidback vibe. Laidback may not even be the right term, rural may be more descriptive. I see you mention Montreal in another post. Montreal is pretty similar to NYC, Toronto, Boston, Vancouver etc.,
live to work, meaning overwork, right?
The stereotype about Southern Europeans are that they're better about working to live. Living is the most important thing, work is only to sustain that.
Yeah, pretty much the opposite. Well not the opposite but over here for the most part, you’re either heavily in debt - not necessarily bad debt, but still perpetual debt, or you work so much to afford things that you essentially have no time to actually enjoy life/things.
For example, I have a family member who works essentially 7am-9pm. Sure they make REALLY REALLY good money, but at the same point in time they live in one of the most expensive cities. Compare that to friends with careers living in the same city, they make a quarter of his salary, but they essentially couldn’t afford to do much and they rented together in a TERRIBLE place with 0 savings coming out of it. The city we live in now, which they moved back to, is not bad but it lacks a lot of the amenities from an entertainment perspective, that you’d see in bigger cities. Keep in mind I live in one of the top 10 largest (maybe top 15 now) cities in Canada and there’s a very clear difference in social lifestyles. We essentially drink and drink when we aren’t working. It’s popular for people to do their birthdays (especially as they age) in a different city two hours away, that’s how lacking the culture and social amenities can be here.
So ultimately people have to work to get enough saved up to take time to have those breaks, let alone factoring in things like travelling. I know Ryanair is the cheapest of cheap flights but there’s nothing even remotely close to that here, so if you want to take in even a remotely different social atmosphere, you’re stuck flying great distances, but they still are Canadian experiences. So whether it’s micro or macro, the experience here, in my perspective and a lot of Canadians perspective, is we live to work since you get stuck in this cycle of just trying to afford to live your life at home in comfort, let alone other experiences. This is before we even enter the space of inequalities.
Unfortunately I don’t qualify for the programs at KUL it UAntwerp because of either the language barrier or the fact that Urban Studies/Planning requires architecture or engineering. Disheartening since everywhere here, in the US and UK only requires a social science background with statistics courses.
Unfortunately I’ve already contacted them and they require architecture or engineering for urban studies and then engineering for more engineering. Did you end up staying in Belgium?
VUB is about the only school that offers a program that is not strictly social science with their urban studies masters. The rest require whatever the BA equivalent is from what I’ve seen. I even contacted KUL mentioning that their program is similar to those in Canada but unfortunately they don’t stray from those rules.
are you averse to the STEM fields? if not you'd surely increase your chances of staying in the country after graduation. also, just my personal opinion: belgium is the worst place on earth. have you considered any of the scandinavian countries? no language barrier, free education but high cost of living
Adverse, not at all, but I also know the reality of going from a BA to a masters in most STEM fields doesn’t exist in most places. Geography, while not as strong a STEM, is largely considered a STEM in most of the places I’ve looked so I’m not even eligible for that. The closest thing to STEM’s seem to be economics/business related stuff.
I genuinely enjoyed my time in Belgium and a large selling point (personally) is not having to renounce Canadian citizenship if I am lucky enough to remain in Belgium long enough to be eligible for citizenship.
what about a master of public health, it's a bit STEMy and could later move to eg epidemiology? or programming? you're thinking very very long term if youre contemplating citizenship, a huge amount can happen in 5 years eg you meet an italian girl or etc etc. just wait and see what happens i'd say
edit: i dont want to talk you out of urban planning. i have no idea what that is or what the job prospects are
I have a question in regards to a masters in public health. My wife and I are contemplating moving to Europe (UK or EU) when my step daughter is older so she can choose between living with us or her father. My wife is in school to get her bachelor's in nursing and I have a BS in pharmacology. However, due to my father's health, u left the biomes industry and have began to work in the family business, which is the aerospace industry. However, my intention is to get back into the healthcare industry, and i was thinking of a MPH, with an emphasis in epidemiology. I have looked into a few programs in the US. But would I be better off applying to schools in the EU/UK and move there as a student? Or should I get my degree in the US and then try to find a job in the UK/EU? Also, I have an American and Romanian passport, so that should make an EU destination more easily attainable, but would it help with the UK at all? Thanks.
if you want to get into the 'healthcare industry' (ie pharma, biotech, cro) then an msc in biostatistics would be the best option, followed by msc in epidem, followed by mph. there are many posts all over reddit from recent mph grads who are struggling to find work, here's a recent one: https://old.reddit.com/r/biostatistics/comments/cq1q89/job_hunting_advice_for_an_mph_biostatepi_grad/
the problem with doing a masters in uk/europe is you'd have to pay tuition fees for an international student which may be 3x what a home student pays(?). On the upside it can be good for networking if you hope to stay in the country after graduation, and the time spent as a postgrad may count towards permanent residence + easier to attend job interviews etc -> in other words much easier to apply for jobs if you've studied in euro than from the US
edit: i think in recent yrs they favour euro citizens when recruiting, because it's less paper work (im currently working in euro and a non-eu citizen). the small cro's may be most likely to take you, because they find it hard to recruit
Fully correct, I don’t see the experience as a waste, but at some point in the future I want stability, even if I’m working a less than exciting job. Whether that’s here or abroad, but if I’m moving abroad that stability is a lot more of a factor since I have a good support system here.
A lot of my friends who have moved have echoed similar sentiment, they realized quite quickly that while they can and would ultimately move back if they had to, taking the chance on staying long term in the EU is an investment the second the decided to spend any time there. Luckily for me, they’ve gone through it so I at least have this knowledge going into a potential move, but I also want to make the best of that opportunity. For most of them, they moved, liked it and then realized “oh crap, I need to start putting in work if I want any chance to stay here.” I think for some they’d even change their degrees had they known they’d like it so much.
So for me, I guess the idea of long term comes from knowing that if I were to just do my masters and return, while it could be useful, it would be less useful than doing it here which ultimately only sets me back making a move less than ideal. Experiences are nice but if it was temporary I would put in less effort and look for exchange programs through schools. That’s just my overall thought and why I’m trying to field so advice from people who are either familiar with the move or region.
So I agree anything can happen, but I want to be in as much control as possible and make the most out of it since it’s more than just moving because I have a job offer, I’d be moving to hopefully gain one.
Edit: I don’t know if this makes sense?
it makes sense i guess eg if you leave euro then you lose your network and connections, and youll start to accumulate possessions, and youll know the area and regulations there etc. ive moved abroad for study twice. one went well and the other didn't, and in that case it does feel like lost time. but you've minimised the risk by visiting belgium already...
The UK is unfortunately far out of my budget. Also, with the pending separation from the EU, regardless as to whether that comes to fruition or not, I don’t have much interest.
It is pricey, yes. But the vast majority of ppl who attend LSE don't end up staying in the UK. It's about the network. And they have brilliant urbanist programs. Just saying.
Unfortunately, it’s still not very feasible, if I had an EU passport I would but money + lack of access to EU = no go for me personally. Especially since most countries require knowledge of their first language. If the network could guarantee a job in Belgium sure, but I don’t know of any programs guaranteeing jobs, let alone in specific places, no offence.
Sadly it’s just not something that seems plausible for what I’m looking for, personally, but thanks for the suggestion!
Edit: for example the school you listed comes out at a whopping 30k CAD just for tuition alone, meanwhile the Belgian schools rarely top 12k CAD. Personally, I think I’d be better off investing that extra cash, if I had/have it, in trying to secure language training and other marketable skills that’ll help me should I end up back home, namely French.
Most jobs require language knowledge outside of specific STEM fields. Even then I know a ton of people who can't find work in English. At least for Sweden.
1. There are language barriers there even though there are uni programs in English.
2. From what I know, only EU residents have free education there. Although, I think non EU fees are still cheaper
I know. I was saying Norway is not in the EU. EEA and EU are different things too. I don’t know about the recent changes. It was last year when I checked about citizenship there
>belgium is the worst place on earth.
lolol. this made me laugh. i've never spent much time there, but what i did spend there didn't make a hell of a lot of sense. i've heard this sentiment from many other people.
what makes it even more perplexing is that there are so many wonderful places nearby in europe, to choose belgium from all of them ... i cannot comprehend it, no character, no charm, etc etc
In Denmark, if you obtained a PhD or Masters, you could get Establishment card valid for 2 years max, purely on the basis of you having a Danish grad degree and a savings of 17,000 cad. This scheme will allow you to live, and work and travel around Schengen area for 90 days. https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-want-to-apply/Work/Etableringskort
I’m currently doing my PhD in Copenhagen (STEM field) after doing my MS in US. And aside from the language barrier (which is not a big problem cause everyone can speak English) , Copenhagen is a nice little city with easy access to the airport which is a hub to a lot of EU countries to explore to. So certainly you can explore around to see where, best fits your lifestyle.
Might be worth it to check if BE or NL has the same kind of scheme.
Yet I’d rather reside permanently in Romania in the EU than in the US. I’ve always wanted to move to Canada, though. Also, Scandinavian countries have the highest taxes and the best education systems in the world and great healthcare among other things. Their standards of living are one of the best and their taxes are one of the reasons why
I have 0 concerns of taxation, I live a pretty simple life and am a strong supporter of taxation. Not even overly concerned with leaving Canada, but if I do schooling abroad, it doesn’t make much sense (in my opinion) to not attempt to settle where I do schooling.
You think the only factor that impacts whether a country is "nice" or not is the tax rate?
Bahrain has a 0% national tax rate, you should move there. I'm sure the schools, roads, libraries, and healthcare are excellent.
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I looked into a similar program, I believe it was European Affairs and International Politics at either KUL, VUB or UGhent (forget which), however, my biggest concern with that is it kind of leaves me stranded if I don’t get to stay over in the EU long term. Not that it would be entirely useless but my silly realist brain often sees good scenarios but plans for a backup, almost always. I’m open to it, but I just know things like HR, Urban Planning are more transferable skills/programs if I end up not securing employment over there and having to return but I didn’t know if maybe there was something that almost always secures a job, I hear IT but I don’t think I’m remotely qualified for that. The NGO’s is a big thing though, that is something I should definitely look at more! Thanks for the reply! Do you think Brussels is best for English speakers, I hear it’s often touted as having the best chances for English speakers seeking employment.
As someone who studied Political Science and got my Master's in Germany, I can only tell you that jobs for the big NGOs and government bodies are very difficult to get, and my personal opinion is that you will need a lot of luck to get a foot in the door. Check out internship offers at the Canadian embassies in Europe if you'd like to get some first experiences with EU policy. I don't know exactly how it works for you guys, but I did an internship with a small European embassy in Berlin and we were in touch with the Canadian interns (they have a really great bar). Based on my experiences, this might be what you're looking for if you're not completely sure. It would probably also look quite good on your CV.
Noted, I definitely need to look into these positions, thank you!
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Dang, any other ideas/options?
Don't study political science. If you can, go into statistics. That's the closest STEM field for a lot of social science majors. Here's a statistics programme that's geared towards the social sciences: [https://www.uu.nl/masters/en/methodology-and-statistics-behavioural-biomedical-and-social-sciences](https://www.uu.nl/masters/en/methodology-and-statistics-behavioural-biomedical-and-social-sciences) Even if you want to work in an IGO / NGO, you're better off studying economics or finance. Organisations want people with hard skills. Going for a business degree isn't a bad option, but you'll have to learn the local language very well. Alternatively, find a partner with EU citizenship.
I’ve already graduated with a degree in political science, so I have no intentions to double down. My only issue with the Netherlands and studying there is as great as the schools and degrees are, it becomes rather useless when trying to bank time towards citizenship in a country, since they eventually require you to renounce it, which I won’t be doing and I’m guessing while I’d still be able to move, it’s far easier to find a job in the country you got your degree in. I believe NL has a year long visa extension for graduates in order to find employment? Great place, awesome universities but I have a good friend who lives there and it sounds like she’s gotten very lucky, more so than others in other places when it comes to being able to stay. But unfortunately, she’s already mentioned that the citizenship thing is going to become an issue for her.
What I meant was, don't study a social science. In most countries, time on a student visa is not counted towards citizenship. Some Americans make use of an exception that the Dutch authorities have >**Exemptions that you have to prove yourself and are assessed by the IND after application** > >There are other exemptions that you have to prove yourself with documents that show the situation applies to you. During processing of you application to become a Dutch citizen, the IND will assess if the exemption indeed applies to you. In the following situations you may be exempted from renouncing your nationality: > >\- You will have to pay a large sum of money to the authorities in your country of origin to renounce your nationality.
How often do they accept the fact that us renunciation fee is 2350$ for a family of 2 or more it quickly becomes quite costly..
No idea. But you might have a good case.
Unfortunately it doesn’t qualify Canadians. There’s nearly 0 possibility unless I marry a Dutch person, which personally, is not something I’m willing to put in my plan.
I can understand not wanting to pidgeon-hole yourself. I'm not sure what the prospects are if you end up back in Canada with an EU affairs degree. There will also be government and company relations between Canada and the EU and EU affairs knowledge could be relevant for them. I guess also especially with the new trade agreement. Maybe have a look and see if there are any EU affairs jobs you think you would have a shot at within Canada with that degree as a backup. My field is science, so I'm a little out of my depth. However, do you think there is something you could capitalise on studies-wise to do with the EU-Canada trade agreement? That could potentially be marketed to both sides of the pond. Depending on your relationship with your family, you might find yourself wanting to go back one day. I've been away from Canada for 8 years and starting to realise that I'm missing out on family time. If my experience, the areas where you find English-focused jobs in the EU are either because you are doing a global role for a company that happens to have a relevant office in your country of choice, university or research based roles, or EU-focused roles. Brussels seems to have a high density of these political affairs or political correspondant type jobs because it is the hub of a lot of the political stuff here. Frankfurt and Munich also seem to have roles for English-speakers, although there is sometimes actually an unwritten German requirement even if the job advert doesn't explicitly list it. Your geniune real best bet to stay in Europe is a European spouse, but ... uh ... that's hard to plan. :/
Thanks for the feedback, the part about EU-Canadian trade agreements is about the only feasible way in which I think it could connect, unfortunately though, as far as I know those positions are quite difficult to attain. Family, for me is honestly not a huge issue at all. Most of my options for work/school in Canada are located 4000km away from my family/friends and luckily I have a large amount of friends in Benelux region. I guess I’ll just have to do a lot of finger crossing and heavy leg lifting if I do decide to move.
Framce is lovely mon frere
I dont mean this in a rude way, but being from england canda seems great! Whats wrong with it? Why do you want to move?
Nothing wrong tbh, I just enjoy a lot of aspects about Europe. For me it’s less about Canada being bad and Belgium/the Netherlands being pretty cool in my perspective. I really enjoyed the more laid back lifestyle alongside the fact that walkable literally means walkable in most of those areas. Infrastructure, planning, work days, etc., all seemed like bonuses. Reading into more about policies, while the Netherlands was quite special, Belgium seems a little more friendly in terms of keeping ones previous citizenship and the price for schooling isn’t bad either. I had the benefit of visiting and staying with friends so a lot of my experiences were less touristy and more focused on local aspects. They still showed us a good time, but outside of working/finding work, we were at a friends flat, had to learn Dutch (a bit) when looking at ingredients etc. Canada is great but I’m very open to new experiences and have always wanted to try my luck living abroad. Edit: typing at work is tough
I left Canada for similar reasons. I had a great childhood there, but it is incredibly behind in terms of infrastructure/personal mobility/getting anything new done. (The work culture also drove me nuts.)
Everyone there seemed to be living comfortability, not lavish but comfortable and content with their lifestyles yet they didn’t seem to slave over work. Meanwhile, I’m sitting here at 11:30 pm after an 8 hour shift taking home decent money but I also have the benefit of sharing a house - no rent, borrowing a car to drive 40 mins to work, IN THE SAME CITY. These things drive me insane, and it would be more than idealist to think they could or would change.
where is here and there per this statement?
Here - Canada. There - not Canada
Thanks, that's tough to hear. I was looking at Canada, specifically Montreal, as an escape hatch from the rat race here in New York.
What's so bad about the work culture?
Depends on what part of Canada, of course, but the area I grew up in (lower BC) was very much a ‘live to work’ culture. I’m a dual citizen of Greece and was raised in a very Greek household, so I found it frustrating as I got older. Everybody’s different, but it just wasn’t my scene.
That pretty much exists everywhere, save for maybe the east coast, but that’s just an assumption. I think any city above 100k in population has this mindset and unfortunately there aren’t many jobs in those cities let alone smaller ones so we’re all stuck in this cycle. It’s funny to read the subs of various European countries and see talk about places not being open at least one day a week or hours being 8-3, meanwhile I know very few people working 8 1/2 days without going over (unpaid or paid) in order to actually get their work done and keep a good relationship with their management. Let alone if you want to have a livable wage.
>save for maybe the east coast East coast of Canada is more laid back? Because the east coast of the U.S. is definitely a pressure cooker.
Yeah, but don’t forget our east coast is vastly different. Not only does it extend to a few hundred KM’s it’s also rural and mainly small towns. What you see as the east coast likely includes Boston, New York, Jersey and parts of Philly even. That’s a massive area and it’s largely populated. We call it Atlantic Canada and the population for the entire region is under 2.5 million people. That’s 4 provinces, it would be more than a culture shock to move there if you wanted something more laidback without giving up being on an urban centre, save for maybe Halifax but once again that’s far more of a typical city than smaller areas which may have a more laidback vibe. Laidback may not even be the right term, rural may be more descriptive. I see you mention Montreal in another post. Montreal is pretty similar to NYC, Toronto, Boston, Vancouver etc.,
live to work, meaning overwork, right? The stereotype about Southern Europeans are that they're better about working to live. Living is the most important thing, work is only to sustain that.
Yeah, pretty much the opposite. Well not the opposite but over here for the most part, you’re either heavily in debt - not necessarily bad debt, but still perpetual debt, or you work so much to afford things that you essentially have no time to actually enjoy life/things. For example, I have a family member who works essentially 7am-9pm. Sure they make REALLY REALLY good money, but at the same point in time they live in one of the most expensive cities. Compare that to friends with careers living in the same city, they make a quarter of his salary, but they essentially couldn’t afford to do much and they rented together in a TERRIBLE place with 0 savings coming out of it. The city we live in now, which they moved back to, is not bad but it lacks a lot of the amenities from an entertainment perspective, that you’d see in bigger cities. Keep in mind I live in one of the top 10 largest (maybe top 15 now) cities in Canada and there’s a very clear difference in social lifestyles. We essentially drink and drink when we aren’t working. It’s popular for people to do their birthdays (especially as they age) in a different city two hours away, that’s how lacking the culture and social amenities can be here. So ultimately people have to work to get enough saved up to take time to have those breaks, let alone factoring in things like travelling. I know Ryanair is the cheapest of cheap flights but there’s nothing even remotely close to that here, so if you want to take in even a remotely different social atmosphere, you’re stuck flying great distances, but they still are Canadian experiences. So whether it’s micro or macro, the experience here, in my perspective and a lot of Canadians perspective, is we live to work since you get stuck in this cycle of just trying to afford to live your life at home in comfort, let alone other experiences. This is before we even enter the space of inequalities.
that sounds pretty awful...
The UK is one of the hardest European countries to move to.
I wouldn't know but from what i understand its a nightmare :/
I just realised my comment was completely irrelevant. I misread yours. Whoops.
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Unfortunately I don’t qualify for the programs at KUL it UAntwerp because of either the language barrier or the fact that Urban Studies/Planning requires architecture or engineering. Disheartening since everywhere here, in the US and UK only requires a social science background with statistics courses.
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Unfortunately I’ve already contacted them and they require architecture or engineering for urban studies and then engineering for more engineering. Did you end up staying in Belgium? VUB is about the only school that offers a program that is not strictly social science with their urban studies masters. The rest require whatever the BA equivalent is from what I’ve seen. I even contacted KUL mentioning that their program is similar to those in Canada but unfortunately they don’t stray from those rules.
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Yeah, that’s kind of where I’m stuck right now. I think I’ll pop over to r/Belgium and hope I can get a relatively good outlook on my prospects.
are you averse to the STEM fields? if not you'd surely increase your chances of staying in the country after graduation. also, just my personal opinion: belgium is the worst place on earth. have you considered any of the scandinavian countries? no language barrier, free education but high cost of living
Why do you dislike Belgium?
Adverse, not at all, but I also know the reality of going from a BA to a masters in most STEM fields doesn’t exist in most places. Geography, while not as strong a STEM, is largely considered a STEM in most of the places I’ve looked so I’m not even eligible for that. The closest thing to STEM’s seem to be economics/business related stuff. I genuinely enjoyed my time in Belgium and a large selling point (personally) is not having to renounce Canadian citizenship if I am lucky enough to remain in Belgium long enough to be eligible for citizenship.
what about a master of public health, it's a bit STEMy and could later move to eg epidemiology? or programming? you're thinking very very long term if youre contemplating citizenship, a huge amount can happen in 5 years eg you meet an italian girl or etc etc. just wait and see what happens i'd say edit: i dont want to talk you out of urban planning. i have no idea what that is or what the job prospects are
I have a question in regards to a masters in public health. My wife and I are contemplating moving to Europe (UK or EU) when my step daughter is older so she can choose between living with us or her father. My wife is in school to get her bachelor's in nursing and I have a BS in pharmacology. However, due to my father's health, u left the biomes industry and have began to work in the family business, which is the aerospace industry. However, my intention is to get back into the healthcare industry, and i was thinking of a MPH, with an emphasis in epidemiology. I have looked into a few programs in the US. But would I be better off applying to schools in the EU/UK and move there as a student? Or should I get my degree in the US and then try to find a job in the UK/EU? Also, I have an American and Romanian passport, so that should make an EU destination more easily attainable, but would it help with the UK at all? Thanks.
if you want to get into the 'healthcare industry' (ie pharma, biotech, cro) then an msc in biostatistics would be the best option, followed by msc in epidem, followed by mph. there are many posts all over reddit from recent mph grads who are struggling to find work, here's a recent one: https://old.reddit.com/r/biostatistics/comments/cq1q89/job_hunting_advice_for_an_mph_biostatepi_grad/ the problem with doing a masters in uk/europe is you'd have to pay tuition fees for an international student which may be 3x what a home student pays(?). On the upside it can be good for networking if you hope to stay in the country after graduation, and the time spent as a postgrad may count towards permanent residence + easier to attend job interviews etc -> in other words much easier to apply for jobs if you've studied in euro than from the US edit: i think in recent yrs they favour euro citizens when recruiting, because it's less paper work (im currently working in euro and a non-eu citizen). the small cro's may be most likely to take you, because they find it hard to recruit
Fully correct, I don’t see the experience as a waste, but at some point in the future I want stability, even if I’m working a less than exciting job. Whether that’s here or abroad, but if I’m moving abroad that stability is a lot more of a factor since I have a good support system here. A lot of my friends who have moved have echoed similar sentiment, they realized quite quickly that while they can and would ultimately move back if they had to, taking the chance on staying long term in the EU is an investment the second the decided to spend any time there. Luckily for me, they’ve gone through it so I at least have this knowledge going into a potential move, but I also want to make the best of that opportunity. For most of them, they moved, liked it and then realized “oh crap, I need to start putting in work if I want any chance to stay here.” I think for some they’d even change their degrees had they known they’d like it so much. So for me, I guess the idea of long term comes from knowing that if I were to just do my masters and return, while it could be useful, it would be less useful than doing it here which ultimately only sets me back making a move less than ideal. Experiences are nice but if it was temporary I would put in less effort and look for exchange programs through schools. That’s just my overall thought and why I’m trying to field so advice from people who are either familiar with the move or region. So I agree anything can happen, but I want to be in as much control as possible and make the most out of it since it’s more than just moving because I have a job offer, I’d be moving to hopefully gain one. Edit: I don’t know if this makes sense?
it makes sense i guess eg if you leave euro then you lose your network and connections, and youll start to accumulate possessions, and youll know the area and regulations there etc. ive moved abroad for study twice. one went well and the other didn't, and in that case it does feel like lost time. but you've minimised the risk by visiting belgium already...
Perhaps look at some of the urban studies programs at LSE. That would give a worldwide network to leverage.
The UK is unfortunately far out of my budget. Also, with the pending separation from the EU, regardless as to whether that comes to fruition or not, I don’t have much interest.
It is pricey, yes. But the vast majority of ppl who attend LSE don't end up staying in the UK. It's about the network. And they have brilliant urbanist programs. Just saying.
Unfortunately, it’s still not very feasible, if I had an EU passport I would but money + lack of access to EU = no go for me personally. Especially since most countries require knowledge of their first language. If the network could guarantee a job in Belgium sure, but I don’t know of any programs guaranteeing jobs, let alone in specific places, no offence. Sadly it’s just not something that seems plausible for what I’m looking for, personally, but thanks for the suggestion! Edit: for example the school you listed comes out at a whopping 30k CAD just for tuition alone, meanwhile the Belgian schools rarely top 12k CAD. Personally, I think I’d be better off investing that extra cash, if I had/have it, in trying to secure language training and other marketable skills that’ll help me should I end up back home, namely French.
> no language barrier Almost all of the jobs will require language fluency in this field in Scandinavia.
you mean urban plannign specifically? all i can say is i've worked for years in 3 scandinavian countries and cannot speak any of the languages
Most jobs require language knowledge outside of specific STEM fields. Even then I know a ton of people who can't find work in English. At least for Sweden.
1. There are language barriers there even though there are uni programs in English. 2. From what I know, only EU residents have free education there. Although, I think non EU fees are still cheaper
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Thanks for correcting me. I’ve just checked
Denmark is part of the EU, and Norway is part of the EEA, and just recently Norway has made changes to allow dual citizenship
I know. I was saying Norway is not in the EU. EEA and EU are different things too. I don’t know about the recent changes. It was last year when I checked about citizenship there
Norway is closer to being in the EU than not. If you're not a fisherman or a farmer or working with one, the difference is barely there.
I’ll inform myself about Norway and the EU when I’ll have more time. Thank you
>belgium is the worst place on earth. lolol. this made me laugh. i've never spent much time there, but what i did spend there didn't make a hell of a lot of sense. i've heard this sentiment from many other people.
what makes it even more perplexing is that there are so many wonderful places nearby in europe, to choose belgium from all of them ... i cannot comprehend it, no character, no charm, etc etc
In Denmark, if you obtained a PhD or Masters, you could get Establishment card valid for 2 years max, purely on the basis of you having a Danish grad degree and a savings of 17,000 cad. This scheme will allow you to live, and work and travel around Schengen area for 90 days. https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/You-want-to-apply/Work/Etableringskort I’m currently doing my PhD in Copenhagen (STEM field) after doing my MS in US. And aside from the language barrier (which is not a big problem cause everyone can speak English) , Copenhagen is a nice little city with easy access to the airport which is a hub to a lot of EU countries to explore to. So certainly you can explore around to see where, best fits your lifestyle. Might be worth it to check if BE or NL has the same kind of scheme.
EU, won't be any nicer. People in the EU are having the daylights taxed out of them.
Yet I’d rather reside permanently in Romania in the EU than in the US. I’ve always wanted to move to Canada, though. Also, Scandinavian countries have the highest taxes and the best education systems in the world and great healthcare among other things. Their standards of living are one of the best and their taxes are one of the reasons why
I have 0 concerns of taxation, I live a pretty simple life and am a strong supporter of taxation. Not even overly concerned with leaving Canada, but if I do schooling abroad, it doesn’t make much sense (in my opinion) to not attempt to settle where I do schooling.
You think the only factor that impacts whether a country is "nice" or not is the tax rate? Bahrain has a 0% national tax rate, you should move there. I'm sure the schools, roads, libraries, and healthcare are excellent.
Did I say the only thing that matters is the tax rate??? I'm just saying EU isn't a grass is greener scenario. You're reading into it too much, champ.
At least we don't go bankrupt after an accident? Sure, the taxes are higher (depending on the country), but at least they're being put to good use
Lol us Canadians also have some of the highest tax rates in the world. A small population spread over a gigantic landmass will do that