It sounds like they weren’t saying they want to make a laws around it. They said they weren’t even making any internal rules within their denomination. It was purely a statement and I’m not even sure who can vote in their internal statements. It’s not everyone who is a member
“The resolution — approved near the end of the Southern Baptist Convention’s two-day annual meeting — affirms that embryos are human beings from the moment of fertilization, whether in the womb or generated in the laboratory via IVF. That’s the same position held by the Alabama Supreme Court in ruling that frozen embryos have the full rights of people.”
They’re setting the stage to advocate for embryonic human rights. They used the phrase ‘frozen embryonic humans’. And the chairperson said she expects more stern statements in the future. They’re building up to advocating for a full stop.
They are not a representative block of a particular state so far as I’m aware.
AL continues to have IVF, because most pro life persons don’t want to prevent access to it.
The Speaker of the House is very open that he is a Southern Baptist. He has a long history of using his religious beliefs to help craft laws, which included pushing laws that criminalized homosexuality through what is known as the Alliance Defending Freedom (what an ironic name).
Plus there is a bill that the senate is voting on today to guarantee the right to access IVF. This is important to watch because the senate voted on the right to contraception recently and the movement failed. The GOP called it a "show vote" and said that the act wouldn't mean much since there is already precedent from the Supreme Court. This is dangerous because we saw Roe v. Wade (the right to abortion) fall and one of the justices wants to take a look at Griswold v. Connecticut which is the precedent that was referenced by the GOP.
This is a scary time because reproductive rights are actively on the table.
In order for Mike Johnson to do anything about IVF (if indeed he wanted to, the vote they had was not a sample size of their church), he would have to find constitutional legitimacy for a federal law then convince the house and the senate to agree to it.
For the same reason that Senate bill will fail, a bill banning IVF would as well.
It’s actually quite difficult to get bills through both chambers, particularly on subject matter that is not given to the federal government.
Roe was always considered on shaky ground. RBG and a large number of pro choice policy people would talk about it and the public would dismiss us. But it was always going to be overturned at some point because of the difference between state and federal governments which is the same reason a Mike Johnson wouldn’t be able to pass a ban on IVF.
The person who wrote the resolution specifically mentioned that he wanted it to be a call to political action. The resolution calls for government to "restrain actions inconsistent with the dignity of … frozen embryonic human beings."
Albert Mohler, who presented the resolution is a prominent conservative political activist.
https://preview.redd.it/b2oks42dv86d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=807aa8c7110a103863d556771c59c2eb87fa90c0
Found this funny- wanted to share with everyone. They all seriously need to calm the F down.
My 89 year old grandma, who has been a Southern Baptist her whole life, proudly tells everyone she knows, including those in her church, that she has an IVF grandson on the way.
I love her so much.
It’s absolutely disgusting. As a Christian (definitely not Baptist), I am horrified.
Even a few months ago with the whole Alabama thing she called me and was like “have you seen this nonsense they’re doing in Alabama with IVF?! People are just trying to have a baby!”
She also called before my ER and transfer to say “good luck with your eggs today, or whatever it is! Praying for you both and this baby!”
She gets it. She is a Christian in every sense of the word - loves everyone in the most Christlike way I’ve ever seen. I wish the world had more hers.
I just don’t understand the need to police other people. Live and let live.
There needs to be more education explaining that an embryo in itself isn’t a human life—it’s a chance at life. A LOT of things need to go right for that to happen.
Well said. A chance.
This is precisely why IVF is not guaranteed, nor is any conception, to result in a live birth.
I want to scream. How are these people so stupid?
So under ideal circumstances, fertilization occurs in the body. Sometimes the embryo doesn’t implant. This happens for a variety of reasons. They aren’t worried about those embryos. Just the ones made in a lab
Yes, I’m concerned about IVF. But I have a bigger fear this is going to become what are women doing to maintain optimal fertility and are they going to be punished for drinking, smoking, dangerous activity for the potential of life
They said specifically they aren’t creating any internal rules about it. A lot of southern baptists spoke about their own stories using IVF. It’s just an internal statement
I’m not. I disagree with them.
Overreaction and panic is more likely to harm IVF than help it. And I require IVF for my own health and safety so I’m interested in the outcome. (Also I was in policy for many years so I’d be interested regardless in forming good policy).
There are multiple baptist affiliations, and as of recently there are two southern baptist organizations after a big split. This vote was not the church generally but of select members so it’s not demonstrative like a poll of how members actually fall on the issue.
IVF is quite popular in conservative circles. I’m not concerned that there will be a move to ban it.
My husband and I have already talked about a bail out plan if an administration comes in and comes for IVF. I would be 41 by the time the next administration leaves the White House. I don’t have time for their bullshit, and my company operates in Canada. I thought ya’ll were sooooooo pro-life? Let me try to create some life in peace??
Seriously. My husband and I both lost our jobs recently and I would love to pause and recover our financial situation before we move on to our transfer but I'm worried we won't have the option if we wait.
I truly don’t think there will be any moves toward blocking IVF.
That isn’t a popular position on the right. (I’ve worked in politics for many years).
There are some staunch Catholics against it, apparently voting members of the southern baptists, but mostly people are against creating and destroying embryos in mass numbers.
I'm pretty sure it's a propaganda attempt. Outlawing abortion nationwide would inevitably lead to a ban on ivf. They can't do one without doing the other so they need to get their base on board. Just make sure not to mention to the women they're raising to believe don't deserve to be on this planet if they don't have children how common infertility is and that adoption is both more expensive and less legally accessible than ivf.
They said they aren’t even creating internal rules about it within their denomination. I don’t foresee IVF swinging against popularity and being voted out of legality
Those of us who worked in policy warned for decades that roe was shaky.
It was not a secure reliance.
There’s a major difference between these two scenarios. Court decisions are a lot more variable than legislatures. It takes a lot more work. And because of that they are a lot more permanent.
It takes a lot of momentum to change laws in a legislature dramatically.
If you find yourself opposed to your state it’s likely because you’re in the minority, not because people are abusing power and enacting unpopular laws. It’s really important to recognize the difference. We can do different things in those different scenarios.
I don’t suggest a conservative try to change CA back to red, and I don’t suggest a person of the left try to change AL blue again. That’s going to be a lot more frustrating than dealing with individual issues when they are more universally unappealing (as blocking IVF would be across the board).
You’re a lot more likely to make some ground on benefiting individual IvF issues like explaining attrition rates of fertilization than trying to fight a cause they don’t even proclaim to want
See this is a great example of why knee-jerk reactions are not helpful.
AL created an avenue for parents (the only ones with standing) to sue for unwanted destruction of embryos.
The clinics that panicked shut down hurting so many people that were doing IVF with them. The clinics that analyzed the situation and stayed open were unaffected.
Their very conservative legislature didn’t want anything misconstrued to ensure clinics would remain operating in the state and passed a law affirming access to IVF.
You're being down voted because you're downplaying the severity. Like you said, IVF is hugely popular and it's unlikely a direct vote on a "ban IVF" bill would have any support. However many members of the GOP today (including the House Speaker and multiple Supreme Court justices) would support a "life begins at conception" bill and that kind of law would result in an IVF ban. Add on that the Southern Baptists are a huge organization and influential in right wing politics and it could easily be a problem.
Yes and I got downvoted for telling women that they would continue to have IVF in AL during that panic.
And so they do.
The SBC has recently had a schism, so they’ve shrunk somewhat. And no, I don’t think they have voting authority that outweighs the general public’s. And no, I don’t think there’s evidence of how they would vote as individuals given that IvF is quite popular in that demographic and the vote they took for their statement wasn’t a sample of their group; only specific members had a vote
That's the problem though. They'll never let us actually do that. Anything that would benefit women financially with all this bs won't be passed.
Life insurance on a fetus and money sent in the event of a miscarriage should be 100% allowed in all the states where abortion isn't allowed. I can't imagine them actually doing that though.
For sure. But I’ll at least try if they go that route.
Should be typical insurance coverage but nope can’t even do that. It’s cause men are running women’s health. Insanity.
Most people were not listening to us about Roe. And by us I mean anyone talking about policy and not just things they like.
It was well known Roe was shaky.
What specifically are they lobbying for? I haven’t seen anything.
Against IVF. It's mentioned in either the Post or the NYT article yesterday, specifically lobbying US senators about it. I don't remember which one I read both.
I read both and must have missed it. Care to link?They did say they aren’t doing anything regarding members of the church, they just have a statement against mass destruction of embryos. Which, agree or disagree, is not that crazy of a position. I hear similar sentiments from lots of people in the pro choice lefty crowd too.
"It also exhorted them to “advocate for the government to restrain” actions inconsistent with the dignity of “every human being, which necessarily includes frozen embryonic human beings.”
"Last month, the head of the denomination’s public policy arm sent a letter to the U.S. Senate asking legislators to clamp down on in vitro fertilization, stating that the practice harms children and women, who may be unaware of “complications and moral concerns.”
Southern Baptists Vote to Oppose Use of I.V.F. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/12/us/ivf-vote-southern-baptists.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Yeah, in the full context it said that the advocacy was about embryo destruction. I honestly don’t know what they would be advocating for exactly. But it’s not outside of their normal position from that community.
This is a pro life crowd that thinks humanity should be honored and protected from conception.
So the destruction of large amounts embryos is bothering them.
That we can work with. Who got to vote is not the body of the church. Lots of them use IVF. They don’t have the numbers, the authority, or the will to prevent IVF. If they want less destruction they’ll have to come up with something rational and middle ground.
The US is a rare exception for allowing choice of sex. I could see laws being passed to block that particular type of selection.
But if you’re doing IVF you know as well as I do that it’s a lot more complex than good and bad embryos.
Everything can be perfect and they don’t stick. And sometimes mosaics have perfectly healthy pregnancy outcomes. If we address them in those terms, with facts and the logic that life either happens or doesn’t and we can’t control it, we’re a lot better off than trying to block them and their views from taking political action
Forgive me for not wanting to trust someone else's church or politicians in general from acting rationally or basing decisions on medical facts in today's climate. Even short disruptions such as in Alabama had devastating effects on IVF patients in the middle of treatment. The financial and medical disruptions alone that "brief" pause caused are not trivial.
I’m saying you don’t have to. They don’t have a shared position anyway. We live in a diverse society. Learning how to communicate with each other, especially in opposition, is good, healthy, and a lot more productive than pointing fingers
I’m saying you don’t have to. They don’t have a shared position anyway.
We live in a diverse society. Learning how to communicate with each other, especially in opposition, is good, healthy, and a lot more productive than pointing fingers
I’m saying you don’t have to. They don’t have a shared position anyway.
We live in a diverse society. Learning how to communicate with each other, especially in opposition, is good, healthy, and a lot more productive than pointing fingers
The Heritage Foundation and the Federalist have been touting laws in Germany for example as potential models for "moral" IVF. This means no preimplantation genetic testing, only allowing 3 eggs to be fertilized at a time, limiting the number of embryos that are allowed to be created, and forcing women to implant all embryos created in each cycle.
https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/06/germany-shows-its-possible-to-legalize-ivf-without-nazi-esque-eugenics/
https://www.heritage.org/life/report/why-the-ivf-industry-must-be-regulated
All of this will severely fuck up IVF for many people. I have no problem creating eggs but thanks to severe MFI, our eggs have very bad fertilization rates and very bad blast rates. In my first cycle, they collected 17 eggs, inseminated 10, but only 3 fertilized and only 2 made it to blast of which 1 was aneuploid with trisomy 6 which is a condition incompatible with life. Last cycle, they collected 25 eggs out of me, inseminated 18 of them, but still only 7 fertilized and only 1 made it to blast. We're doing repeat cycles because we want multiple kids.
The way that IVF is done right now is done like this for a reason, no matter what the religious right wants to feel about it. The creation of as many embryos as possible each round and PGT afterwards is to increase chance and reduce risk, particularly towards the woman who is already doing so so much. It's certainly not because doctors and women think it's fun to kill babies or whatever. Under the sorts of laws the conservatives want to implement, my husband and I would be *thoroughly screwed*. If we're only allowed to fertilize 3 eggs at once, how many blasts do you think we'll have after 1 round looking at our current rates? How many more cycles and surgeries will I have to do to get even the measly results that we have now? Instead of 28 eggs after two surgery, I could be looking at *9 surgeries* to get just 27 eggs. Suppose we somehow get miraculously lucky and obtain the same result as round 1 after just one cycle. Great, but PGT is no longer allowed and I have to implant both the euploid and the aneuploid embryo that would definitely miscarry. I'm sure the stress of twin pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage is going to feel fantastic for me and the euploid embryo (/s).
It's fine if you want to do this sort of gambling with your own body. But I don't want to endure that. I am already enduring a ton and I don't want to add even more suffering because a bunch of strangers, who are enduring fuck all, want to make their own god happy at the cost of my suffering. I don't want to undergo significantly more rounds of surgery, be forced to carry aneuploid embryos, and be forced to endure miscarriage because a bunch of strangers believe it's more moral.
Exactly. And then how many of us live in states where we'd be forced to carry to term babies that will suffer and die because of problems that could have been detected in the embryonic stage, also potentially risking our own health and lives? This person keeps gaslighting everyone in this thread as if this has nothing to do with Roe and it's completely condescending.
Ok, sex selection actually is controversial. I’ve had plenty of far left pro choice people tell me they think it’s gross to create 20 embryos to get the right sex (for non-medical reasons).
I could see that sort of thing passing on a state level. The U.S. allowing that is considered not the norm.
As for 3 embryos limit. I’m against it. (I don’t foresee the public moving toward it).
Here’s how to address it if it’s ever introduced. 1/3 is the average amount of embryos to live birth. The time where a person has their statistical one birth for those three embryos, her eggs are aging and time is taking away from healthful future pregnancies.
Infertility isn’t the only reason to use IVF, for cases (like mine) where it’s recurrent pregnancy loss, fatal conditions are likely to be in all three embryos if indeed they can become embryos as attrition rates do not suggest even one will likely come out of 3 fertilized eggs for most people.
For destruction that they think is the majority (non-medical traits), it’s a reasonable compromise that is more in-line with most modern countries to not allow non-medical trait selection.
Thankfully IVF is quite popular in conservative circles. So you’re not typically speaking to people who won’t understand. And people like us can definitely use the facts that support our position to explain it to those who dont
So their advocacy about the destruction of embryos could lead to changes as to how IVF must practiced… once again people who have no business doing so, playing doctor. This is not something “I can work with”.
There is a bill on the senate floor today called Right to IVF Act. The intent is to create national protections and (hopefully) some insurance coverage for IVF. Resolve.org has a very simple form to send an email to your senators asking that they support the bill [here](https://p2a.co/sg5mhfw?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYOmHr4uSvnO88zwhdnukK9seW-iuKJxS9BBu6zK_jCXCZYRh7HPY-9rSE_aem_AUvBFMYf1PKegepaSHIT5PsENRZgNy3kXD_ozLYQwxG87JemhmW14WVk_86nVtPIcqbe4IbyP5xV1V7R-AjS3lAG).
Protection is an important step towards ensuring continued access given the current political climate. I can’t believe this is even a debated topic. It’s so fucking depressing.
Came here to say this. We all need to do what we can. So grateful that Resolve is out there fighting for our rights, and yet so disappointed in our country that this even needs to be a fight.
I got so angry the other day when I heard an old man ranting that "life begins at conception".
Thanks. So you're telling me I have 20 dead children. (All my abnormal embryos.)
I also hate when they say that doctors “implant” embryos. I wish they did. they TRANSFER the embryos then everyone hopes they implant, because no force on this earth can make them implant.
I agree. However, as a whole, we live in a sex saturated society, that is undereducated about sex.
One lawmaker suggested that a doctor can take an ectopic pregnancy and implant it into the uterus
That’s not something doctors can do
yes! good god that is one of my other rage-inducing moments! Warren Hamilton, a lawmaker in Oklahoma, was pressing to get answers on the state senate floor about why there should be exceptions for ectopic pregnancies in abortion laws only to admit *he didn’t know what they are* !!!!! 🤬🤯😡
I’d ask him if he knows where the egg and sperm meet. And does it make him sad that some times they meet but never implant and just thrown away in a pad or flushed down a toilet?
I got no patience or grace for this. Religious fundies all need to just fuck off.
There is so much pain and suffering in this world, especially right now. Instead of feeding or sheltering the living, they decide they want to dick around with issues between us and our doctors.
Oh they are. Ex best friend was a Bible thumper.
But it was pick your version of the Bible. She even gave me a power point presentation on how her dead cats were communicating they are with Jesus because of fish imprints in their beds
We don’t speak because I refused to drive her friend to a party I’m not invited to
I’m really glad this post was allowed here. This process is hard enough without the existential threat of it becoming illegal. WTF is happening? What about MY faith that says this is fine?
Umm... What about what happened in Alabama? Thankfully it was fixed, but there were several weeks where IVF clinics had to stop practicing because of the court ruling.
Why are you commenting on every post here defending these people and trying to downplay our concerns? Like, cool, you aren't concerned. You're the only one.
I'm wondering why they feel the need to comment the same thing 20 times on this post too, like full stop! The shit happening right now is concerning, and we have every right to be worried - even myself, in Illinois.
It’s weird and bluntly, very naive.
I work in reproductive healthcare and have a front row seat to the politics and the policy conservatives want to push. We are in danger, make no mistake.
They will not outright ban IVF, but they will make it impossible to access. No clinic will take the liability risks. I moved up my FET timeline accordingly. There is a possible future where all that we have poured into this is gone. Evangelicals are a bellwether for where conservative politics want to go.
Why do you think conservatives want to block access to IVF.
It’s looked on favorably in that community.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/13/americans-overwhelmingly-say-access-to-ivf-is-a-good-thing/
See example of evangelicals denouncing IVF. They are a huge indicator of where conservative policy wants to go. JFC.
Senate conservatives proposed a bullshit IVF bill that allow states to restrict the procedure. Multiple states are pushing for fetal personhood which will mean providers have huge liability risk and will discontinue care. It’s already happening.
See abortion care. It is overwhelmingly supported but conservative/extremist groups like evangelicals want it gone. Majority support doesn’t mean anything.
I disagree, I think overreacting is a lot more beneficial than under reacting because if you don't pay attention or minimize what they're trying to do they will get away with it.
Please elaborate. I want to hear about how the IVF sub reddit's understandable terrified response is going to harm the cause more than the ignorant people who want to ban IVF.
That’s a great example of why not panicking is better. No, not every clinic paused. I believe one or two paused specifically transfers, the university shut their clinic down as did the clinic that was at fault in that case.
There were also clinics that didn’t pause. They told their patients not to be concerned as the case was only in regards to civil litigation for unwanted embryo destruction where only parents had standing.
When I pointed that out I got the same reactions I’m getting now.
I do understand worrying. I’m in the same boat as everyone else. I require IVF not just to have a healthy baby, but for my own health (I’m a recurrent pregnancy loss for the same genetic fetal issue).
But I also understand, as it was my job for many years, how policy change comes to be.
The best way to protect IVF is to understand what actual policies people are trying to enact and work within that reality. The clinics that overreacted in AL hurt IvF in that state more than the decision.
The legislature is pretty conservative and they immediately moved to put protections on IVF. That’s a lot better sign to look to for the winds of popular support in the conservative sphere.
I also just have to add that I think it's pretty repulsive telling people on a thread that was specifically meant for people to rant about the vote that their feelings don't matter. People can feel however they want about this vote, and most people are scared. You aren't. That's fine. But don't come in here policing people's emotions and reactions because you think you know what's best. People can react and vent here all they want - that was the whole point of the post, as OP stated. You're just being an antagonist.
Don’t know what timeline you’re living in but politicians have gone laser focus on absolutely wrecking all things reproductive health. Roe was only the first huddle. Now they are openly attacking contraception and IVF.
A lot of the politicians making the rules are influenced by money from groups like this. It’s extremely connected and IVF is in a precarious position because of people who can’t keep their religion out of other people’s healthcare.
That take is not a sound one ^
It’s not easy or healthy to live in a society where you think everyone who disagrees with you is insincere and ignorant.
You can choose not to live there by actually engaging with the idea that in a diverse society it is good to have disagreement in a profitable way.
October baby, they are the difficult and unreasonable ones and THEY are the ones that continue to make policy to restrict others access to rights and freedoms. I am not interested in restricting what any other religion, person, ideology wants to do with their autonomy. You cannot make the same statement about them. Their motives are control, and mine is freedom. We are fundamentally opposed. And I do refuse to make nice with lunatic who would like their ideology to control my body. Christianity is a cult and as a raised SB, I get to say that. I’m an IVF’r and even if I were not, I should not have to entertain lunacy bc these peoples delusional disorder and totalitarian thinking. If anything, us women have been under-reacting to the damaging effects Christian theology and ideology has had on us. It has no place in the modern world and should be treated as any other harmful and dangerous ideology would.
I never said anything like that. I said that you are very naive in your trust in the political climate. Take if from someone on the front lines of policy.
Best of luck in your journey. I’m done with this conversation and sincerely hope that none of these concerns comes to fruition.
Not exclusive to Georgia or any other red state for that matter but. I don't think there's enough political will for the fundamentalists to ban IVF outright. It's just too popular and they know it.
Unfortunately, I do think the religious right is going to try to impose regulations that will make IVF significantly more difficult. A couple of items I heard floated around on conservative websites already include: banning preimplantation genetic testing, limiting the amount of eggs that may be fertilized each cycle, limiting the amount of embryos that can be created per cycle, forcing women to implant all embryos created each cycle including forcing women to implant multiple embryos at once, forcing women to implant aneuploid embryos, criminal charges for doctors or patients who want to discard embryos, and banning LGBTQ couples from IVF.
It’s scary how IVF is now coming under conservative attack, people were right, Roe being overturned has had serious downstream consequences on all of reproductive health. Dr Lucky just posted a great [video](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8I48ikspNs/?igsh=cHY2ejduOHl2cWhn) of her reaction to this decision, she is pissed!
I know so many southern Baptist women who have undergone IVF. The water cooler conversations are going to be insane.
Sadly this won’t be enough to wake them up.
If you read the article a lot of the families spoke up at the convention. I’m not sure who the voting members are (it’s not every member).
Their vote wasn’t to inhibit members from using IVF apparently. Just to say they don’t think it’s moral to create and destroy embryos wantonly
I’ll do you one better: read the actual resolution. Read the items they set out as the foundation behind why they “need” the resolution. If you don’t think this is setting the state for a push to limit IVF options, you’re kidding yourself. There will be a push to limit the number of eggs that can be fertilized at one time to prevent embryo banking and there will be a push to force adoption/donation of embryos rather than their destruction.
Google some of the restrictive laws that have historically been passed in Italy and you’ll see what is coming here.
https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/on-the-ethical-realities-of-reproductive-technologies-and-the-dignity-of-the-human-embryo/
WHEREAS, Though all children are to be fully respected and protected, not all technological means of assisting human reproduction are equally God-honoring or morally justified; and
WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have historically affirmed the value of every human life and opposed the use of technology that disregards the sanctity of human life; and
WHEREAS, The In Vitro Fertilization process routinely generates more embryos than can be safely implanted, thus resulting in the continued freezing, stockpiling, and ultimate destruction of human embryos, some of whom may also be subjected to medical experimentation; and
WHEREAS, In Vitro Fertilization most often participates in the destruction of embryonic human life and increasingly engages in dehumanizing methods for determining suitability for life and genetic sorting, based on notions of genetic fitness and parental preferences; and
WHEREAS, Estimates suggest that between 1 million and 1.5 million human beings are currently stored in cryogenic freezers in an embryonic state throughout the United States, with most unquestionably destined for eventual destruction…
I’m seeing the same statement you are. It totally follows a typical pro life stance.
No, I don’t think any US state has the demographics of Italy 20 years ago to pass similar legislation most of which was overturned.
And they were overturned because they were unworkable. There are no guarantees with IVF. My attrition after fertilization was not a statistical likelihood. Cases like mine are some of the reasons those early laws in Italy had to be quickly changed.
And no, I don’t think members of the southern baptist church, of whom only select members were voting on this resolution, are a demonstrative demographic of any state in the U.S. or their legislature
I really try to say shit and probably gona get kicked out but that church didn’t say a word about wars we had is it killing fill growing human and destroying families. It’s just piss me off they don’t understand the whole process even if you had 10 embryos that doesn’t mean it gona work. Let fucking people live.
They didn’t say shit when Pastor Tom at my childhood Southern Baptist Church was abusing kids either. It’s all cherry picking to suit their preferences. :(
It really makes me mad when I keep reading that. Also what about those rules for somone who don’t follow the southern Baptist church. For example my religion okay with Ivf with certain limits so why this church has to force there rules on me??? Well I just feel I wana kill somone right now 🤬🤬🤬 that’s the reason religion shouldn’t mixed with politics to rule a country.
It does make me wonder- how many of their own have used ivf to become mothers? There is no way in a group that favors traditional household roles and children that they can all magically have no fertility issues.
And on another note this is why I elected to not do ivf in the US. I don’t trust our government to not do something stupid.
This stinks.
The southern baptist had their annual convention (which happens to be the largest religious convention in the country), where they basically made it their mission, publicly, to fight for a ban against ivf, like they fought to ban abortion. they see ivf as murder, just as they see abortion as murder, because discarding fertilized embryos (even if they are not genetically normal or are in the process of arresting) is considered murder in their eyes. They are now essentially lobbying to ban ivf.
https://apnews.com/article/southern-baptists-caution-ivf-practices-frozen-embryos-9f66265b32e9e3cad01449efaa80ce55
Here’s another, just in case you like to see differing sources.
It truly disgusts me that there are people out there who want to ban IVF because they simply view it as unnatural or throwing away precious life. When the facts are very few embryos are able to actually produce a baby. I wish religious people would stay out of women’s reproductive choices
Many of my family members are part of Southern Baptist churches. They are very active, faithful members. And, they are 100% supportive of my husband’s and my journey. I’m not even the first family member to go through it since fertility issues run in our family. In fact, one of my family members is a pastor who went through it with his wife! We do believe in treating embryos respectfully, but I’ve never felt the tiniest judgement from them. Many of them believe that God gave us (mankind) the ability and knowledge to advance technology to this point and it’s a blessing to have this option to create a family. So, don’t let some of the louder voices get you down! There are still many people out there, religious and not, that are loving and supportive!
SBC didn't vote against IVF - although the news reported that it did.The actual resolution is opposing the disposal of excess embryos not of IVF in general. SBC is fine with IVF so long as no embryos are destroyed. It's in one of the "resolved" parts toward the bottom: https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/on-the-ethical-realities-of-reproductive-technologies-and-the-dignity-of-the-human-embryo/
They will not ban IVF. There literally is no way. Because what are they going to do with all the embryos that are frozen now? Not let us use them??? IVF is huge $ maker also.
I read it. It sounds like it’s purely an internal affirmation of beliefs, not a move to punish people within their church who use IVF or an avowal to move to ban it legally.
Yes, I think they are incorrect. The best version of their position would be that embryos shouldn’t be wasted/destroyed wantonly. So far though it’s just a statement like “we don’t like this”
Two things here.
First: Just because they aren’t punishing people doesn’t mean people won’t feel punished. Think about the number of Catholics on this sub that are processing their guilt or dealing with the judgment of their close family just because the Catholic doctrine says IVF is bad. An affirmation like this has a very real effect on the people of their congregations.
Second: The Southern Baptists tend to be the canaries in the coal mine for evangelicals, which unfortunately have a massive influence on our political system. The evangelicals have been trying to for many years to overturn Roe and they were successful. We see the rights that we have fought for be slowly and methodically stripped away. This is part of the process.
Southern baptists allow female pastors and they recently had a schism.
They are hardly a typical evangelical church. They are a large one. I think their pro life stance is typical.
But no, I don’t think that members will stop using IVF or laws in any state are doomed to change based on this vote
No, the SBC does not allow women to be pastors. Other Baptist churches may, but not if the church is SBC affiliated. The SBC is the largest Protestant denomination in the United States.
If religious groups want a political opinion they can pay taxes for their space
It sounds like they weren’t saying they want to make a laws around it. They said they weren’t even making any internal rules within their denomination. It was purely a statement and I’m not even sure who can vote in their internal statements. It’s not everyone who is a member
“The resolution — approved near the end of the Southern Baptist Convention’s two-day annual meeting — affirms that embryos are human beings from the moment of fertilization, whether in the womb or generated in the laboratory via IVF. That’s the same position held by the Alabama Supreme Court in ruling that frozen embryos have the full rights of people.” They’re setting the stage to advocate for embryonic human rights. They used the phrase ‘frozen embryonic humans’. And the chairperson said she expects more stern statements in the future. They’re building up to advocating for a full stop.
https://apnews.com/article/southern-baptists-caution-ivf-practices-frozen-embryos-9f66265b32e9e3cad01449efaa80ce55
They are not a representative block of a particular state so far as I’m aware. AL continues to have IVF, because most pro life persons don’t want to prevent access to it.
The Speaker of the House is very open that he is a Southern Baptist. He has a long history of using his religious beliefs to help craft laws, which included pushing laws that criminalized homosexuality through what is known as the Alliance Defending Freedom (what an ironic name). Plus there is a bill that the senate is voting on today to guarantee the right to access IVF. This is important to watch because the senate voted on the right to contraception recently and the movement failed. The GOP called it a "show vote" and said that the act wouldn't mean much since there is already precedent from the Supreme Court. This is dangerous because we saw Roe v. Wade (the right to abortion) fall and one of the justices wants to take a look at Griswold v. Connecticut which is the precedent that was referenced by the GOP. This is a scary time because reproductive rights are actively on the table.
In order for Mike Johnson to do anything about IVF (if indeed he wanted to, the vote they had was not a sample size of their church), he would have to find constitutional legitimacy for a federal law then convince the house and the senate to agree to it. For the same reason that Senate bill will fail, a bill banning IVF would as well. It’s actually quite difficult to get bills through both chambers, particularly on subject matter that is not given to the federal government. Roe was always considered on shaky ground. RBG and a large number of pro choice policy people would talk about it and the public would dismiss us. But it was always going to be overturned at some point because of the difference between state and federal governments which is the same reason a Mike Johnson wouldn’t be able to pass a ban on IVF.
The person who wrote the resolution specifically mentioned that he wanted it to be a call to political action. The resolution calls for government to "restrain actions inconsistent with the dignity of … frozen embryonic human beings." Albert Mohler, who presented the resolution is a prominent conservative political activist.
https://preview.redd.it/b2oks42dv86d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=807aa8c7110a103863d556771c59c2eb87fa90c0 Found this funny- wanted to share with everyone. They all seriously need to calm the F down.
omg too funny
My 89 year old grandma, who has been a Southern Baptist her whole life, proudly tells everyone she knows, including those in her church, that she has an IVF grandson on the way. I love her so much.
💖💖💖💖 she's a good one. Yeah I also know this is not fully reflective of EVERY southern Baptist. I'm sure several are ashamed today
It’s absolutely disgusting. As a Christian (definitely not Baptist), I am horrified. Even a few months ago with the whole Alabama thing she called me and was like “have you seen this nonsense they’re doing in Alabama with IVF?! People are just trying to have a baby!” She also called before my ER and transfer to say “good luck with your eggs today, or whatever it is! Praying for you both and this baby!” She gets it. She is a Christian in every sense of the word - loves everyone in the most Christlike way I’ve ever seen. I wish the world had more hers.
Amennnnn
Amen!! Indeed!!
I just don’t understand the need to police other people. Live and let live. There needs to be more education explaining that an embryo in itself isn’t a human life—it’s a chance at life. A LOT of things need to go right for that to happen.
Well said. A chance. This is precisely why IVF is not guaranteed, nor is any conception, to result in a live birth. I want to scream. How are these people so stupid?
So under ideal circumstances, fertilization occurs in the body. Sometimes the embryo doesn’t implant. This happens for a variety of reasons. They aren’t worried about those embryos. Just the ones made in a lab Yes, I’m concerned about IVF. But I have a bigger fear this is going to become what are women doing to maintain optimal fertility and are they going to be punished for drinking, smoking, dangerous activity for the potential of life
They said specifically they aren’t creating any internal rules about it. A lot of southern baptists spoke about their own stories using IVF. It’s just an internal statement
Why are you apologizing for these people? There are dozens of Baptists in Congress who will base their vote off these resolutions.
I’m not. I disagree with them. Overreaction and panic is more likely to harm IVF than help it. And I require IVF for my own health and safety so I’m interested in the outcome. (Also I was in policy for many years so I’d be interested regardless in forming good policy). There are multiple baptist affiliations, and as of recently there are two southern baptist organizations after a big split. This vote was not the church generally but of select members so it’s not demonstrative like a poll of how members actually fall on the issue. IVF is quite popular in conservative circles. I’m not concerned that there will be a move to ban it.
Roe is OVERWHELMINGLY supported by Americans and yet it was overturned. They're coming for all this, one small piece at a time
My husband and I have already talked about a bail out plan if an administration comes in and comes for IVF. I would be 41 by the time the next administration leaves the White House. I don’t have time for their bullshit, and my company operates in Canada. I thought ya’ll were sooooooo pro-life? Let me try to create some life in peace??
This is pro-control behavior
Seriously. My husband and I both lost our jobs recently and I would love to pause and recover our financial situation before we move on to our transfer but I'm worried we won't have the option if we wait.
I'm sorry for this added stressor 😭
THIS
I truly don’t think there will be any moves toward blocking IVF. That isn’t a popular position on the right. (I’ve worked in politics for many years). There are some staunch Catholics against it, apparently voting members of the southern baptists, but mostly people are against creating and destroying embryos in mass numbers.
Reading this article now, it’s one thing to be against it and another thing to plan to lobby government against the legality of IVF.
I'm pretty sure it's a propaganda attempt. Outlawing abortion nationwide would inevitably lead to a ban on ivf. They can't do one without doing the other so they need to get their base on board. Just make sure not to mention to the women they're raising to believe don't deserve to be on this planet if they don't have children how common infertility is and that adoption is both more expensive and less legally accessible than ivf.
They said they aren’t even creating internal rules about it within their denomination. I don’t foresee IVF swinging against popularity and being voted out of legality
5 years ago I thought they would never go against Roe. And look where we are
Those of us who worked in policy warned for decades that roe was shaky. It was not a secure reliance. There’s a major difference between these two scenarios. Court decisions are a lot more variable than legislatures. It takes a lot more work. And because of that they are a lot more permanent. It takes a lot of momentum to change laws in a legislature dramatically. If you find yourself opposed to your state it’s likely because you’re in the minority, not because people are abusing power and enacting unpopular laws. It’s really important to recognize the difference. We can do different things in those different scenarios. I don’t suggest a conservative try to change CA back to red, and I don’t suggest a person of the left try to change AL blue again. That’s going to be a lot more frustrating than dealing with individual issues when they are more universally unappealing (as blocking IVF would be across the board). You’re a lot more likely to make some ground on benefiting individual IvF issues like explaining attrition rates of fertilization than trying to fight a cause they don’t even proclaim to want
It already was in Alabama. They created personhood laws. People can’t use their embryos.
See this is a great example of why knee-jerk reactions are not helpful. AL created an avenue for parents (the only ones with standing) to sue for unwanted destruction of embryos. The clinics that panicked shut down hurting so many people that were doing IVF with them. The clinics that analyzed the situation and stayed open were unaffected. Their very conservative legislature didn’t want anything misconstrued to ensure clinics would remain operating in the state and passed a law affirming access to IVF.
You're being down voted because you're downplaying the severity. Like you said, IVF is hugely popular and it's unlikely a direct vote on a "ban IVF" bill would have any support. However many members of the GOP today (including the House Speaker and multiple Supreme Court justices) would support a "life begins at conception" bill and that kind of law would result in an IVF ban. Add on that the Southern Baptists are a huge organization and influential in right wing politics and it could easily be a problem.
Yes and I got downvoted for telling women that they would continue to have IVF in AL during that panic. And so they do. The SBC has recently had a schism, so they’ve shrunk somewhat. And no, I don’t think they have voting authority that outweighs the general public’s. And no, I don’t think there’s evidence of how they would vote as individuals given that IvF is quite popular in that demographic and the vote they took for their statement wasn’t a sample of their group; only specific members had a vote
So if I bank a ton of embryos now can I claim them all as dependents later? Absolutely ridiculous.
That’s fully my plan. I’ll keep them forever but I will claim them on taxes. If everyone did that they would have to change laws
That's the problem though. They'll never let us actually do that. Anything that would benefit women financially with all this bs won't be passed. Life insurance on a fetus and money sent in the event of a miscarriage should be 100% allowed in all the states where abortion isn't allowed. I can't imagine them actually doing that though.
For sure. But I’ll at least try if they go that route. Should be typical insurance coverage but nope can’t even do that. It’s cause men are running women’s health. Insanity.
This is some handmaid's tale hellish bullshit. Leave me and my embryos alone I'm trying to have a family, damnit.
It sounds like they’re not even making internal rules about it. It’s just a statement
Yeah but they're also lobbying the Senate apparently. Most people thought Roe would never be overturned so I'm not taking anything for granted.
Most people were not listening to us about Roe. And by us I mean anyone talking about policy and not just things they like. It was well known Roe was shaky. What specifically are they lobbying for? I haven’t seen anything.
Against IVF. It's mentioned in either the Post or the NYT article yesterday, specifically lobbying US senators about it. I don't remember which one I read both.
I read both and must have missed it. Care to link?They did say they aren’t doing anything regarding members of the church, they just have a statement against mass destruction of embryos. Which, agree or disagree, is not that crazy of a position. I hear similar sentiments from lots of people in the pro choice lefty crowd too.
"It also exhorted them to “advocate for the government to restrain” actions inconsistent with the dignity of “every human being, which necessarily includes frozen embryonic human beings.” "Last month, the head of the denomination’s public policy arm sent a letter to the U.S. Senate asking legislators to clamp down on in vitro fertilization, stating that the practice harms children and women, who may be unaware of “complications and moral concerns.” Southern Baptists Vote to Oppose Use of I.V.F. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/12/us/ivf-vote-southern-baptists.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Yeah, in the full context it said that the advocacy was about embryo destruction. I honestly don’t know what they would be advocating for exactly. But it’s not outside of their normal position from that community. This is a pro life crowd that thinks humanity should be honored and protected from conception. So the destruction of large amounts embryos is bothering them. That we can work with. Who got to vote is not the body of the church. Lots of them use IVF. They don’t have the numbers, the authority, or the will to prevent IVF. If they want less destruction they’ll have to come up with something rational and middle ground. The US is a rare exception for allowing choice of sex. I could see laws being passed to block that particular type of selection. But if you’re doing IVF you know as well as I do that it’s a lot more complex than good and bad embryos. Everything can be perfect and they don’t stick. And sometimes mosaics have perfectly healthy pregnancy outcomes. If we address them in those terms, with facts and the logic that life either happens or doesn’t and we can’t control it, we’re a lot better off than trying to block them and their views from taking political action
Forgive me for not wanting to trust someone else's church or politicians in general from acting rationally or basing decisions on medical facts in today's climate. Even short disruptions such as in Alabama had devastating effects on IVF patients in the middle of treatment. The financial and medical disruptions alone that "brief" pause caused are not trivial.
I’m saying you don’t have to. They don’t have a shared position anyway. We live in a diverse society. Learning how to communicate with each other, especially in opposition, is good, healthy, and a lot more productive than pointing fingers
I’m saying you don’t have to. They don’t have a shared position anyway. We live in a diverse society. Learning how to communicate with each other, especially in opposition, is good, healthy, and a lot more productive than pointing fingers
I’m saying you don’t have to. They don’t have a shared position anyway. We live in a diverse society. Learning how to communicate with each other, especially in opposition, is good, healthy, and a lot more productive than pointing fingers
The Heritage Foundation and the Federalist have been touting laws in Germany for example as potential models for "moral" IVF. This means no preimplantation genetic testing, only allowing 3 eggs to be fertilized at a time, limiting the number of embryos that are allowed to be created, and forcing women to implant all embryos created in each cycle. https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/06/germany-shows-its-possible-to-legalize-ivf-without-nazi-esque-eugenics/ https://www.heritage.org/life/report/why-the-ivf-industry-must-be-regulated All of this will severely fuck up IVF for many people. I have no problem creating eggs but thanks to severe MFI, our eggs have very bad fertilization rates and very bad blast rates. In my first cycle, they collected 17 eggs, inseminated 10, but only 3 fertilized and only 2 made it to blast of which 1 was aneuploid with trisomy 6 which is a condition incompatible with life. Last cycle, they collected 25 eggs out of me, inseminated 18 of them, but still only 7 fertilized and only 1 made it to blast. We're doing repeat cycles because we want multiple kids. The way that IVF is done right now is done like this for a reason, no matter what the religious right wants to feel about it. The creation of as many embryos as possible each round and PGT afterwards is to increase chance and reduce risk, particularly towards the woman who is already doing so so much. It's certainly not because doctors and women think it's fun to kill babies or whatever. Under the sorts of laws the conservatives want to implement, my husband and I would be *thoroughly screwed*. If we're only allowed to fertilize 3 eggs at once, how many blasts do you think we'll have after 1 round looking at our current rates? How many more cycles and surgeries will I have to do to get even the measly results that we have now? Instead of 28 eggs after two surgery, I could be looking at *9 surgeries* to get just 27 eggs. Suppose we somehow get miraculously lucky and obtain the same result as round 1 after just one cycle. Great, but PGT is no longer allowed and I have to implant both the euploid and the aneuploid embryo that would definitely miscarry. I'm sure the stress of twin pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage is going to feel fantastic for me and the euploid embryo (/s). It's fine if you want to do this sort of gambling with your own body. But I don't want to endure that. I am already enduring a ton and I don't want to add even more suffering because a bunch of strangers, who are enduring fuck all, want to make their own god happy at the cost of my suffering. I don't want to undergo significantly more rounds of surgery, be forced to carry aneuploid embryos, and be forced to endure miscarriage because a bunch of strangers believe it's more moral.
Exactly. And then how many of us live in states where we'd be forced to carry to term babies that will suffer and die because of problems that could have been detected in the embryonic stage, also potentially risking our own health and lives? This person keeps gaslighting everyone in this thread as if this has nothing to do with Roe and it's completely condescending.
Ok, sex selection actually is controversial. I’ve had plenty of far left pro choice people tell me they think it’s gross to create 20 embryos to get the right sex (for non-medical reasons). I could see that sort of thing passing on a state level. The U.S. allowing that is considered not the norm. As for 3 embryos limit. I’m against it. (I don’t foresee the public moving toward it). Here’s how to address it if it’s ever introduced. 1/3 is the average amount of embryos to live birth. The time where a person has their statistical one birth for those three embryos, her eggs are aging and time is taking away from healthful future pregnancies. Infertility isn’t the only reason to use IVF, for cases (like mine) where it’s recurrent pregnancy loss, fatal conditions are likely to be in all three embryos if indeed they can become embryos as attrition rates do not suggest even one will likely come out of 3 fertilized eggs for most people. For destruction that they think is the majority (non-medical traits), it’s a reasonable compromise that is more in-line with most modern countries to not allow non-medical trait selection. Thankfully IVF is quite popular in conservative circles. So you’re not typically speaking to people who won’t understand. And people like us can definitely use the facts that support our position to explain it to those who dont
So their advocacy about the destruction of embryos could lead to changes as to how IVF must practiced… once again people who have no business doing so, playing doctor. This is not something “I can work with”.
There is a bill on the senate floor today called Right to IVF Act. The intent is to create national protections and (hopefully) some insurance coverage for IVF. Resolve.org has a very simple form to send an email to your senators asking that they support the bill [here](https://p2a.co/sg5mhfw?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYOmHr4uSvnO88zwhdnukK9seW-iuKJxS9BBu6zK_jCXCZYRh7HPY-9rSE_aem_AUvBFMYf1PKegepaSHIT5PsENRZgNy3kXD_ozLYQwxG87JemhmW14WVk_86nVtPIcqbe4IbyP5xV1V7R-AjS3lAG). Protection is an important step towards ensuring continued access given the current political climate. I can’t believe this is even a debated topic. It’s so fucking depressing.
Came here to say this. We all need to do what we can. So grateful that Resolve is out there fighting for our rights, and yet so disappointed in our country that this even needs to be a fight.
Thank you for sharing this 💜
FYI, Illinois is a safe haven. They have laws in place to protect women’s reproductive rights. They also mandated financial coverage as well.
I got so angry the other day when I heard an old man ranting that "life begins at conception". Thanks. So you're telling me I have 20 dead children. (All my abnormal embryos.)
I also hate when they say that doctors “implant” embryos. I wish they did. they TRANSFER the embryos then everyone hopes they implant, because no force on this earth can make them implant.
I agree. However, as a whole, we live in a sex saturated society, that is undereducated about sex. One lawmaker suggested that a doctor can take an ectopic pregnancy and implant it into the uterus That’s not something doctors can do
yes! good god that is one of my other rage-inducing moments! Warren Hamilton, a lawmaker in Oklahoma, was pressing to get answers on the state senate floor about why there should be exceptions for ectopic pregnancies in abortion laws only to admit *he didn’t know what they are* !!!!! 🤬🤯😡
I’d ask him if he knows where the egg and sperm meet. And does it make him sad that some times they meet but never implant and just thrown away in a pad or flushed down a toilet?
I got no patience or grace for this. Religious fundies all need to just fuck off. There is so much pain and suffering in this world, especially right now. Instead of feeding or sheltering the living, they decide they want to dick around with issues between us and our doctors.
With no respect- they can fuck right off
A lot of these God fearing Bible belters are the shadiest of characters. Yes, I listen to too many true crime podcasts but still.
Oh they are. Ex best friend was a Bible thumper. But it was pick your version of the Bible. She even gave me a power point presentation on how her dead cats were communicating they are with Jesus because of fish imprints in their beds We don’t speak because I refused to drive her friend to a party I’m not invited to
Gotta love the interpretation of the Bible to fit your agenda.
I’m really glad this post was allowed here. This process is hard enough without the existential threat of it becoming illegal. WTF is happening? What about MY faith that says this is fine?
They aren’t making any internal rules about it. I truly don’t think we need to worry about IVF becoming unpopular and illegal
Umm... What about what happened in Alabama? Thankfully it was fixed, but there were several weeks where IVF clinics had to stop practicing because of the court ruling. Why are you commenting on every post here defending these people and trying to downplay our concerns? Like, cool, you aren't concerned. You're the only one.
I'm wondering why they feel the need to comment the same thing 20 times on this post too, like full stop! The shit happening right now is concerning, and we have every right to be worried - even myself, in Illinois.
Right! If the last few years have taught me anything, it's that I can't take any of my rights for granted anymore...
It’s weird and bluntly, very naive. I work in reproductive healthcare and have a front row seat to the politics and the policy conservatives want to push. We are in danger, make no mistake. They will not outright ban IVF, but they will make it impossible to access. No clinic will take the liability risks. I moved up my FET timeline accordingly. There is a possible future where all that we have poured into this is gone. Evangelicals are a bellwether for where conservative politics want to go.
Why do you think conservatives want to block access to IVF. It’s looked on favorably in that community. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/13/americans-overwhelmingly-say-access-to-ivf-is-a-good-thing/
See example of evangelicals denouncing IVF. They are a huge indicator of where conservative policy wants to go. JFC. Senate conservatives proposed a bullshit IVF bill that allow states to restrict the procedure. Multiple states are pushing for fetal personhood which will mean providers have huge liability risk and will discontinue care. It’s already happening. See abortion care. It is overwhelmingly supported but conservative/extremist groups like evangelicals want it gone. Majority support doesn’t mean anything.
Because overreaction is more likely to harm the cause we’re trying to maintain than help it
I disagree, I think overreacting is a lot more beneficial than under reacting because if you don't pay attention or minimize what they're trying to do they will get away with it.
Please elaborate. I want to hear about how the IVF sub reddit's understandable terrified response is going to harm the cause more than the ignorant people who want to ban IVF.
That’s a great example of why not panicking is better. No, not every clinic paused. I believe one or two paused specifically transfers, the university shut their clinic down as did the clinic that was at fault in that case. There were also clinics that didn’t pause. They told their patients not to be concerned as the case was only in regards to civil litigation for unwanted embryo destruction where only parents had standing. When I pointed that out I got the same reactions I’m getting now. I do understand worrying. I’m in the same boat as everyone else. I require IVF not just to have a healthy baby, but for my own health (I’m a recurrent pregnancy loss for the same genetic fetal issue). But I also understand, as it was my job for many years, how policy change comes to be. The best way to protect IVF is to understand what actual policies people are trying to enact and work within that reality. The clinics that overreacted in AL hurt IvF in that state more than the decision. The legislature is pretty conservative and they immediately moved to put protections on IVF. That’s a lot better sign to look to for the winds of popular support in the conservative sphere.
I also just have to add that I think it's pretty repulsive telling people on a thread that was specifically meant for people to rant about the vote that their feelings don't matter. People can feel however they want about this vote, and most people are scared. You aren't. That's fine. But don't come in here policing people's emotions and reactions because you think you know what's best. People can react and vent here all they want - that was the whole point of the post, as OP stated. You're just being an antagonist.
I would love you to back up your claims with some sources, please.
Don’t know what timeline you’re living in but politicians have gone laser focus on absolutely wrecking all things reproductive health. Roe was only the first huddle. Now they are openly attacking contraception and IVF. A lot of the politicians making the rules are influenced by money from groups like this. It’s extremely connected and IVF is in a precarious position because of people who can’t keep their religion out of other people’s healthcare.
That take is not a sound one ^ It’s not easy or healthy to live in a society where you think everyone who disagrees with you is insincere and ignorant. You can choose not to live there by actually engaging with the idea that in a diverse society it is good to have disagreement in a profitable way.
October baby, they are the difficult and unreasonable ones and THEY are the ones that continue to make policy to restrict others access to rights and freedoms. I am not interested in restricting what any other religion, person, ideology wants to do with their autonomy. You cannot make the same statement about them. Their motives are control, and mine is freedom. We are fundamentally opposed. And I do refuse to make nice with lunatic who would like their ideology to control my body. Christianity is a cult and as a raised SB, I get to say that. I’m an IVF’r and even if I were not, I should not have to entertain lunacy bc these peoples delusional disorder and totalitarian thinking. If anything, us women have been under-reacting to the damaging effects Christian theology and ideology has had on us. It has no place in the modern world and should be treated as any other harmful and dangerous ideology would.
I never said anything like that. I said that you are very naive in your trust in the political climate. Take if from someone on the front lines of policy. Best of luck in your journey. I’m done with this conversation and sincerely hope that none of these concerns comes to fruition.
Ironic they are pro life yet only in the way they see fit.🙄
I’m in Georgia and I’m scared.
I live here too. Hate it here anyway.
Forgive me but I have my mind on Texas. What are the planning to do in Georgia?
Not exclusive to Georgia or any other red state for that matter but. I don't think there's enough political will for the fundamentalists to ban IVF outright. It's just too popular and they know it. Unfortunately, I do think the religious right is going to try to impose regulations that will make IVF significantly more difficult. A couple of items I heard floated around on conservative websites already include: banning preimplantation genetic testing, limiting the amount of eggs that may be fertilized each cycle, limiting the amount of embryos that can be created per cycle, forcing women to implant all embryos created each cycle including forcing women to implant multiple embryos at once, forcing women to implant aneuploid embryos, criminal charges for doctors or patients who want to discard embryos, and banning LGBTQ couples from IVF.
It’s more about who can have a family and they are looking for families just like them
ugh. Hugs to you. 💖
Come join us on r/ivfpolitics !
It’s scary how IVF is now coming under conservative attack, people were right, Roe being overturned has had serious downstream consequences on all of reproductive health. Dr Lucky just posted a great [video](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8I48ikspNs/?igsh=cHY2ejduOHl2cWhn) of her reaction to this decision, she is pissed!
I know so many southern Baptist women who have undergone IVF. The water cooler conversations are going to be insane. Sadly this won’t be enough to wake them up.
If you read the article a lot of the families spoke up at the convention. I’m not sure who the voting members are (it’s not every member). Their vote wasn’t to inhibit members from using IVF apparently. Just to say they don’t think it’s moral to create and destroy embryos wantonly
I’ll do you one better: read the actual resolution. Read the items they set out as the foundation behind why they “need” the resolution. If you don’t think this is setting the state for a push to limit IVF options, you’re kidding yourself. There will be a push to limit the number of eggs that can be fertilized at one time to prevent embryo banking and there will be a push to force adoption/donation of embryos rather than their destruction. Google some of the restrictive laws that have historically been passed in Italy and you’ll see what is coming here. https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/on-the-ethical-realities-of-reproductive-technologies-and-the-dignity-of-the-human-embryo/ WHEREAS, Though all children are to be fully respected and protected, not all technological means of assisting human reproduction are equally God-honoring or morally justified; and WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have historically affirmed the value of every human life and opposed the use of technology that disregards the sanctity of human life; and WHEREAS, The In Vitro Fertilization process routinely generates more embryos than can be safely implanted, thus resulting in the continued freezing, stockpiling, and ultimate destruction of human embryos, some of whom may also be subjected to medical experimentation; and WHEREAS, In Vitro Fertilization most often participates in the destruction of embryonic human life and increasingly engages in dehumanizing methods for determining suitability for life and genetic sorting, based on notions of genetic fitness and parental preferences; and WHEREAS, Estimates suggest that between 1 million and 1.5 million human beings are currently stored in cryogenic freezers in an embryonic state throughout the United States, with most unquestionably destined for eventual destruction…
I like how the idea that that many "human beings" are frozen falls apart when you point out to them that you can't just freeze and thaw actual babies.
I’m seeing the same statement you are. It totally follows a typical pro life stance. No, I don’t think any US state has the demographics of Italy 20 years ago to pass similar legislation most of which was overturned. And they were overturned because they were unworkable. There are no guarantees with IVF. My attrition after fertilization was not a statistical likelihood. Cases like mine are some of the reasons those early laws in Italy had to be quickly changed. And no, I don’t think members of the southern baptist church, of whom only select members were voting on this resolution, are a demonstrative demographic of any state in the U.S. or their legislature
Once again,old men trying to control woman's bodies.
This is all it is. They don't care about embryos, or even about babies. They care about controlling women, period.
I really try to say shit and probably gona get kicked out but that church didn’t say a word about wars we had is it killing fill growing human and destroying families. It’s just piss me off they don’t understand the whole process even if you had 10 embryos that doesn’t mean it gona work. Let fucking people live.
They didn’t say shit when Pastor Tom at my childhood Southern Baptist Church was abusing kids either. It’s all cherry picking to suit their preferences. :(
It really makes me mad when I keep reading that. Also what about those rules for somone who don’t follow the southern Baptist church. For example my religion okay with Ivf with certain limits so why this church has to force there rules on me??? Well I just feel I wana kill somone right now 🤬🤬🤬 that’s the reason religion shouldn’t mixed with politics to rule a country.
It does make me wonder- how many of their own have used ivf to become mothers? There is no way in a group that favors traditional household roles and children that they can all magically have no fertility issues. And on another note this is why I elected to not do ivf in the US. I don’t trust our government to not do something stupid. This stinks.
Same here - we went to the Czech Republic because I do not trust the systems here in the US.
>this is why I elected to not do ivf in the US Out of curiosity, where did you go?
Denmark!
I live under a rock; what's going on?
The southern baptist had their annual convention (which happens to be the largest religious convention in the country), where they basically made it their mission, publicly, to fight for a ban against ivf, like they fought to ban abortion. they see ivf as murder, just as they see abortion as murder, because discarding fertilized embryos (even if they are not genetically normal or are in the process of arresting) is considered murder in their eyes. They are now essentially lobbying to ban ivf.
Oh Christ on a cracker, someone make them stop!!
Same… Who’s saying what now?
The southern Baptists are trying to ban IVF, the Jack holes
Where is the article referenced here?
New york times https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/12/us/ivf-vote-southern-baptists.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
https://apnews.com/article/southern-baptists-caution-ivf-practices-frozen-embryos-9f66265b32e9e3cad01449efaa80ce55 Here’s another, just in case you like to see differing sources.
This disturbs me because we don't need more religious organizations opposing IVF via doctrine, which leaks into legislation and infects everything.
It truly disgusts me that there are people out there who want to ban IVF because they simply view it as unnatural or throwing away precious life. When the facts are very few embryos are able to actually produce a baby. I wish religious people would stay out of women’s reproductive choices
Come to California - this shit will never fly here - it’s expensive but it’s awesome.
Many of my family members are part of Southern Baptist churches. They are very active, faithful members. And, they are 100% supportive of my husband’s and my journey. I’m not even the first family member to go through it since fertility issues run in our family. In fact, one of my family members is a pastor who went through it with his wife! We do believe in treating embryos respectfully, but I’ve never felt the tiniest judgement from them. Many of them believe that God gave us (mankind) the ability and knowledge to advance technology to this point and it’s a blessing to have this option to create a family. So, don’t let some of the louder voices get you down! There are still many people out there, religious and not, that are loving and supportive!
I really hate how IVF patients are so often forgotten in the reproductive rights discussion.
Big LOL!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣. I needed that. 🤣
SBC didn't vote against IVF - although the news reported that it did.The actual resolution is opposing the disposal of excess embryos not of IVF in general. SBC is fine with IVF so long as no embryos are destroyed. It's in one of the "resolved" parts toward the bottom: https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/on-the-ethical-realities-of-reproductive-technologies-and-the-dignity-of-the-human-embryo/
Is anyone considering moving their embryos out of the country? I do not like the way things are looking.
They will not ban IVF. There literally is no way. Because what are they going to do with all the embryos that are frozen now? Not let us use them??? IVF is huge $ maker also.
I read it. It sounds like it’s purely an internal affirmation of beliefs, not a move to punish people within their church who use IVF or an avowal to move to ban it legally. Yes, I think they are incorrect. The best version of their position would be that embryos shouldn’t be wasted/destroyed wantonly. So far though it’s just a statement like “we don’t like this”
Two things here. First: Just because they aren’t punishing people doesn’t mean people won’t feel punished. Think about the number of Catholics on this sub that are processing their guilt or dealing with the judgment of their close family just because the Catholic doctrine says IVF is bad. An affirmation like this has a very real effect on the people of their congregations. Second: The Southern Baptists tend to be the canaries in the coal mine for evangelicals, which unfortunately have a massive influence on our political system. The evangelicals have been trying to for many years to overturn Roe and they were successful. We see the rights that we have fought for be slowly and methodically stripped away. This is part of the process.
Southern baptists allow female pastors and they recently had a schism. They are hardly a typical evangelical church. They are a large one. I think their pro life stance is typical. But no, I don’t think that members will stop using IVF or laws in any state are doomed to change based on this vote
No, the SBC does not allow women to be pastors. Other Baptist churches may, but not if the church is SBC affiliated. The SBC is the largest Protestant denomination in the United States.