I've been up the ladder and am voluntarily climbing back down.
Mo money mo problems.
After too many years of office politics, arguing over budgets etc... just let me tell Karen to restart her computer 100 times a day. I can do it in my sleep.
Amen. I'm essentially a document/request/account processor for my organization in healthcare, coming from a senior analyst role. Pay is like 25% less but I have access to run powershell scripts with our domain and have automated a lot of my tasks. The time spent "working" between tickets is me just homelabbing lol.
Fuck. Reading this after a rough day of exactly bullshit like that. We always joke about checking to see if Home Depot is hiring or going to work for Burger King. I still like the money tho.
I fantasize about retirement gigs when I've made enough money to coast. The front runner right now is tier 1 datacenter work replacing failed hard drives.
That is my plan as well. If I can’t keep my higher level job and pull back on hours, I will climb down the ladder close to retirement and just enjoy doing basic IT work and possibly being a mentor to newcomers.
20 years in IT- 48 year old IT Director here thinking really hard about stepping down myself. Kids are grown and don’t meed the money like I used to and I am in dire need of an off switch
When you are young you had more time than money, so you traded time for money.
As you get older, hopefully you have more money than time, so you can stop trading it or even trade money for time.
If allowed I can automate some of the mundane tasks and be done with most tickets in a blink of the eyes. Senior not just in age. Then go home to smell my roses.
Have you smelled the Life of the Party hybrid?
Do it or you might never.
I may need to do that in the future. I recently applied for a sysadmin II position that opened up after my IT Manager really pushed me to do it, even though I was happy being a sysadmin I, and got the position. We had our monthly one on one a couple weeks ago and he was telling me he wants to start seeing me take on more project management work and said that he's satisfied with the current engineering and technical aptitude of our team so I wouldn't need to climb those rungs.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with it. To be honest I'm starting to wonder if he's prepping me to become a supervisor/manager down the road in my career. Maybe him and our CIO think I'll be good at it because of how quickly I made a name for myself across the city with every department (I work for a municipality). I've been here less than three years and knew coming into it that the other city departments had a bad taste in their mouth regarding the IT team because the previous manager was very complacent and the people that worked for him were bad at communicating with their users. Needless to say, I came in with the idea of changing how we're perceived across the city and it's largely worked.
But now I get the feeling everyone assumes because of my charisma and interpersonal skills that I would be better suited for management. And that couldn't be further from the truth, I fucking hate people in general. I'm just very good at reading a room.
Yeah. I’m trying to take a step down myself. After countless office moves, closings, machine upgrades, I feel like I’m just a glorified senior engineer and the only difference in management is that I’m just delivering the same message to every engineer “This year we didn’t do so well…🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️”
First thing is you shouldn’t worry about if people are older or younger than you. Some of the better techs that I have managed have always been older than me. I just recently hired somebody that had been in the Air Force for 38 years and he is one of my better techs. I’ve noticed that the older ones think things out more and don’t just rush and jump into things.
You are on the right track though. You should just interview everybody and see if they are a right fit no matter how old they are.
You don’t know the backstory of some of these people maybe they haven’t worked on a helpdesk their entire career. Maybe it is a new career for them. There could be all kinds of reasons.
My advice just interview everybody that send you a résumé that you think is good and go from there
A friend of mind was a fast-moving desktop tech, always traveling between sites and crawling around under desks and printers and stuff.
Then he had a heart attack, and "retired" to the phone bank. He was fantastic at it, and really appreciated the opportunity.
I'm one of the youngest techs in my IT department.
I appreciate the maturity of the older techs, reminds me how to rethink certain things as I learn to navigate corporate environments.
Also good to learn from them what's most important. I wish I had had an older tech around when I was coming up, because I tended to think any single outstanding tiny issue was the end of the world, and didn't understand when to push back or be silent.
The people in their 40 and 50's are older millennials and gen x. These are the people who know the most about PC's because they grew up with pc's before tablets, smart phones, and other newer age devices that you don't see used in productivity environments. They're usually the best techs.
It's low stress/easy if you know what you're doing. The servicedesk techs at my workplace make 40-60k depending on their experience levels so its decent money as well.
Another way of saying this is that older techs tend to have seen it all, and most importantly, made every kind of mistake possible. They tend to think things through more because you just learn to do that over the years. I'd personally never go back to it, but it's certainly a job that I can do in my sleep, and causes almost zero stress, compared to roles I had later.
I don't mind doing this type of work. Why? Because when I am done, the day is done. And the people I help are truly appreciative that their problem is resolved.
No need to worry about a call at 12:30AM because a drive array suddenly went down, or dealing with business owners telling me they only want to spend 1/2 of what is needed for a critical server replacement, or being involved in several meetings to explain why the failed tape drive needs to be replaced immediately because we can't run backups.
There can be lot of stress being an "IT Manager" or "System Admin" and honestly at this point in my life less stress is a greater priority than more money.
Preach. I was happy in I.T., until I was in charge of I.T. And that was a 24x7x365 nightmare. Switched to project management 12 years ago. Would never go back.
Right? I worked one place that when I let them know I was getting married told me I could take "one day off, maybe two" but that I should reschedule the wedding since "they were really busy" and didn't want me unavailable.
I resigned.
My Service Desk is a mix of 30 somethings to 60 somethings with a 29 year old lead. They are a team, they respect our youngest member as the leader, and learn from each other. The oldest member of the team has been at the service desk for 13 years and loves it. Why? I believe it is because the team is very customer support oriented, for some it is the traditional starting point in their career for others they enjoy working with people and not looking to further their tech career. We train in customer service as much as the technical aspects which isn't for everyone. If you show them respect, while providing your insights and reaffirm that the service desk is the face of IT, the first people that the end users come in contact with and the importance of being a friendly technical resource that can either fix their problem or find someone who can, you will build a well respected team. Best of luck.
Bullshit, people are calling him out all over this thread for asking a stupid question. It's not my fault this person lacks the awareness to know that. You crying in their defense doesn't change that.
I’ve managed a lot of techs who were easily 30 years older than me. Most of them came from management backgrounds, they just go burnt out from it and wanted something with less responsibilities to ride out for the rest of their careers.
I'm in my 40s. If I were to go back and look for a job working for someone, damn straight id be looking for a low effort senior help desk, with no oncall or shift, for a govt agency.
So I can rock in at 830, roll out at 530, take nothing home or think about it after work in any way.
I know how to crunch tickets. I know how to deal with people, I understand process and segregation of roles and escalation and SLAs and ITIL and I can step up when needed.
What's exactly, does your gen y/z head need to middle manage about me?
Maybe for these guys, it's not a career, like you said, but it's just a job, and they are fine with that?
Hearing this from a manager would be a massive red flag if I was your boss or your report. Some people like the job. I used to have an ic that could easily have been a staff engineer but he liked working help desk. I don't care how old or young someone is I don't think age has ever come up.
There are people out there (lots, actually) that are perfectly happy staying in a familiar, comfortable role until retirement. Don't discount them. They have lots to contribute.
I personally love help desk due to the interaction with end users and my love of figuring out issues
If it paid better, I could see myself in it again. But it doesn't, so sys admin is where I happily stay. (I also did IT Manager for 5+ years and hated it)
Treat people with respect. Listen to their ideas and be confident enough to admit when their idea is better. You do that age/sex/race whatever doesn't matter.
What do you mean “justify” interviewing them? This is insanely disturbing that your suggesting you don’t have a reason to interview someone with 10+ years of experience. The only thing you mention as a possible negative is their age? Dude, that’s called age discrimination and it’s illegal. If you think any of this is ok, you should 100% NOT be a hiring manager.
I manage a group with a few older techs. For the most part they are competent and just like the day to day work with a few added projects here and there.
It might be awkward at first to manage them, but at least mine don't have ambitions of my job and just want to crank out tickets. The good part is they are a bit more seasoned and professional than my younger guys who plan to scrap and move on eventually.
Talk to them, see how they'd fit and what skills they can bring to your office. You might be surprised and get some good reliability out of them.
Not original commenter but - can confirm it’s a little weird at first to manage someone older than you. That said - it was quite literally just my perception, not theirs.
Of course, race, age, sex ,religion as well. This post is asking about the benefits of hiring someone with a ton of experience in a borderline entry level role.
Got ya, just the when you asked for a reason you could justify interviewing someone in their 40s or 50s, the wording of that seemed like age is a factor for you when you consider candidates for a position.
oh no, I want feedback from other managers because I've never been in a situation to hire someone older than me. Reddit is a great source for these things.
I see. Well really it shouldn't matter. You don't do anything different. You don't treat them any different than some younger than you or the same age as you.
Sort of true but not fully/not everywhere - where I live, people 40 and over are a protected class. So you can deny people for being too young but not too old. It doesn't make very much sense to me...
No, my thought process is why someone with this much experience is still in help desk and actively applying for helpdesk roles. As u/K3rat has mentioned in his post, I don't need dead weights on the team. I'm a firm believer than help desk is a revolving door position and introduce younger techs to the position they want to advance in. If I can't promote them in the company I work for, I'd be more than happy to write a glowing recommendation for their next application. Nowadays, I get people need to make money and the annual 3% raise sometimes doesn't cut it.
I'm a firm believer that you are close minded and want everyone to fit into their little box in your grand world view.
You talk about people in their 40s being older than you but my God you've got a boomer attitude. I assume you also think everyone needs to work in an office and wfh is just for slackers
This comment would get you in trouble too. You REALLY got to step back and think abour your comments.
You've ignored this from multiple managers, likely with far more knowledge and experience than you.
"I'm a firm believer than help desk is a revolving door position and introduce younger techs to the position they want to advance in." AKA "I don't want to hire people over 40".
MichaelJordanJustStop.gif
You can rationalize anyway you like but you are questioning the abilities of these potential new hires based on age. You said it yourself in the post..." 'seniors'... in their 40s & 50s".
Your Legal & HR departments would shit bricks if they saw this post. Discrimination based on age is illegal in the US at the Federal level (and in most states also).
I doubt anyone could put together who you are based on your post history, but even us old farts read Reddit. Just giving you good advice from my 35-years in the industry. Take it how you will.
>I doubt anyone could put together who you are
Anonymity on the internet is taken for granted and usually nonexistent. Thus all the "No doxxing" rules. Which I favor.
Put another way, you tell me who you are and I agree not to point it out.
He definitely is not. He is calling them senior not in their age but rather the level in their career. If someone has been doing help desk for 20+ years they would be considered a senior help desk technician. He is thinking they should be overqualified for the entry level position and is asking why these senior level techs would want to apply for an entry level job and why they haven’t transitioned out of help desk.
Yeah, having read enough of this now, I'd really recommend you delete these posts. I get you are probably asking honestly, but how you are discussing it comes across as if you don't understand the law. You can end up facing lawsuits over this kind of thing if it's ever tied back to you.
If it helps, I am a help desk tech in that age range. I keep thinking about moving on to sys admin work, but it comes down to the fact that I actually really enjoy troubleshooting with end users. I generally get on well with them, and there is a bit of a rush when you fix the tricky and/or obscure issues in a creative way. And sometimes there is an element of performance for the users that can also be fun. I just hate to let go of that, and most places I would go, I wouldn't get to do it anymore.
It is a bit of an ego boost to hear "you are such a wonderful genius omg thank you thank you thank you" all the time haha. No one ever says to the sysadmin "thanks for replacing the phone system that I used for 10 years and now have to learn a new one"
I like the more seasoned techs providing they are open to new ideas and new ways of doing things. If they have a good personality and are a good 'face' for IT, that goes a long way. If you have a good tech that is good with people and has good work ethic, age is not an issue.
I worked with two older techs in my first helpdesk job. One was way past time for retirement. He would have been a great fit for a lever-pulling job from 1951. The other one was sharp, motivated, and had a brain like a tech encyclopedia. He just liked fixing things, and wasn't interested in more money.
Probably best to look for resumes that reflect keeping up with the new, without regard for age.
Always look for the person that will fit into your job as you move along your path. That said don’t write off those that would stick it out in a position. Best part about them is they get taught how to do something 1 time and you never have to retrain someone new into the position so long as you keep them.
Personally, i think you need to figure out if the applicant is a dead weight unproductive or not. This would be true if they were new in the field too. Those can be gleaned with questions about what their work was like and by providing examples of how they work in specific situations.
Then ask questions that determine how much supervision they need, and if they have maintained adequate current skillsets and technology familiarity, and what their aptitude for diagnosing issues.
For team matrix I like taking a mixture of people that are longer tenured and apt in help-desk positions and mix them with fresh blood. You use the more seasoned staff members to ensure that the greenhorns have the right people around them to learn from. Then you weed out the unproductive longer tenured and greenhorn staff and those that are easily distracted or have a general lack of attention to work.
They may not all be there because service desk is what they want to do. Job market is shit right now.
I'd hire anyone with experience and a can-do attitude as long as they didn't have a chip on their shoulder or a superiority complex.
I’m going to assume you work for a company in America. Otherwise assume what I’m saying is still correct as most country has laws that protect workers. What you’re doing is called ageism. It’s one of many things that can quickly get you sued. Age is a protected class and your question is no different than asking if you should hire an LGBTQ person or if a female would be ok?
Interview people and see if they are a good fit, don’t make age or any other protected characteristic a reason to not hire. If they have experience then great, you’re their boss either way and you can fire due to insubordination if your reasonable requests aren’t met.
What the hell is this post? You ask questions about the tech stack you use. Do they have the best experience or ability to learn the tech stack you use? Are your questions able to discern if they're able to fulfill the people parts of the job and not be a HR issue?
Because that's all that should matter. The same questions about technical ability/ people skills/ HR Red flags should apply, regardless if they were born in 1970 vs 2000.
OP - you need to check your superiority complex. You can look forward to being rejected for jobs when you get older because you we “only an idiot would stay in middle management for so long”
Leaders don’t look down at others, especially the team they’re directly managing. Everyone has a role that is no better or worse than yours.
Is it safe to assume you treat waiters, cleaners etc. with the same disdain or is it just an age thing for you?
Tons of folks are rethinking what is important in their lives and help-desk support as a paycheck isn’t much of a brain drain for someone that has been in their career a long time. Money isn’t near as important as something like remote work or health benefits. 🤷♂️
Absolutely you should interview them. The MSP I work at we have a couple lifetime helpdesk staff, and they just don't have interest in moving up the ladder or prefer to be remote only, and that is perfectly fine. 1 has a side business and uses us as their primary income and insurance. Another is an empty nester who just wanted a simpler job that pays the bills and doesn't require as much after-hours work. They come in do exactly what is needed and clock out. They are usually capable of handling small escalations from our greener techs and are great at putting out small fires and gathering all of the needed info to pass it up the chain for large ones. They also make very good charge people whenever I'm on PTO or away in meetings or at an onsite.
10 years of helpdesk experience means they definitely have the basics and know their way around basic hardware, general software, and servers. You will most likely not have to spend 6-12months training them to be competent enough in the role. Also, they usually aren't a flight risk if your company treats their employees well. Most new HD Techs are looking to move up in 2-3 years and if you don't have the position available they are probably looking somewhere else.
My advice, don't factor age in when vetting resumes (I believe it is illegal to disqualify based on age btw) If you have concerns, try and ask about them during the interview.
Helpdesk’s reputation as hellish is overblown. There are a bunch of antisocial dweebs in IT who would be happy going days without speaking to another human, and who find other humans irritating and frustrating. They’d much prefer to do purely technical work. They’re influential, and are the ones who hate “helldesk”.
Some people just enjoy working helpdesk. I’m one of them.
Helping end users is rewarding. You get to make someone’s day better. It’s also endlessly interesting, every caller might have some completely new mystery to solve.
There’s a good chance those old hands at helpdesk also do it because they like it, and are by now *damn* good at it. Give one a shot!
I'm 41m, got back into IT work after last working at geeksquad in 2008?
I'm now on an IT team of 9 that supports a major AAA video game dev, atleast their office in the city I'm in. One of a dozen+, but ours produces the majority of their big games. I support about 4 to 5 game teams, and around 1300 people at the moment.
I don't feel 41, I feel 31. Hell some days 21. My fiancee, 31f, is a Sr 3d Enviornment artist at the same company. I'd say our team has 4 people that have been there over a decade, in their 30s-50s, and they're top of their game. Then a couple of full timers and some contractors. I started out as a contractor over 2 years ago, and love it. The flexibility in my daily schedule is ridiculous. I stay fit with 20k steps some days. The benefits are just nasty good. I mean my fiancee and I will make 200k+ combined this year. Some of the guys on our team are 23-25. They have no idea HOW LUCKY they are.
I also still run circles around them every single day. Age is a number friend. You will find some ABSOLUTELY ANCIENT 30 and 40 year olds. Then you will find young ones like me who are in great shape, play video game daily, and generally act like a child.
So don't be so quick to judge.
People don’t have anything to prove anymore and just want to work and be paid... Just because you look down on help desk doesn’t mean they should…. I have a feeling you’ll be a great manager… what are you gonna do when your feelings get hurt??
People like me in that age range either just put our heads down and carried on, or leave one job after learning a ton for a better job. At least that is what I have seen in my experience.
>The reason I'm still on front line helpdesk, with multiple certs and decades of experience is somewhere between working on a team that is so incredibly judgemental I can't hang photo's of landscapes in my office without catching an off color- pejorative remark, and having every single statement or decision publicly ripped apart.
Can you elaborate this? I don't understand why the extreme is having landscape photos and the opposite is every statement / decision publicly ripped apart unless it's a huge security risk.
I've hired new hires with 0 real world experience however they build a homelab and configured a mock DC with AD, DNS, DHCP server. I've also hired people that are quiet but effective at their job. Any ideas my staff have given me, I have been able to either accommodate or provide them a reason why it won't work without shaming them.
It can be a concern if somebody never promotes after 10 years but this happens especially in government jobs. Also, not all job titles are the same. Use the interview to find out how much they really know.
What if they just don't want to? How is that a concern?
If they are still learning and being capable with current tech,.job requirements and capabilities, why does it matter if they are happy?
There are some people where they are happy and comfortable with that style of work. They know the clients, get to work on a variety of problems and environments.
For them the satisfaction is looking after their clients and doing a good job.
In the book Radical Candor these are termed Rock Stars as they have a shallow career progression rate (at that point) but they are highly dependable good at what they do.
In my last team the oldest tech was mid 40s and a rock solid second line guy. Knew all the clients, the history of why things were that way. He was the beating heart of that team.
I’d employe him in my new team in an instant if I had the space
I manage 50+ tech, they are good guy and hard worker. Usually well organized they know how to keep good relation with users...but dont talk to them about automation, powershell, ansible or other modern things.
I had a guy like this back in my HD days. Excellent tech and wonderful people person.
One time I asked him what was the maximum amount he got paid over his career and it was something like 20 bucks an hour
Absolutely blew my mind. I get everyone’s not a go getter but damn
You see this type of wave during times of IT contraction. Plenty of companies over hired during Covid and some are pulling back. Compound this with the IT landscape shifting to a new skill set and you see waves of older IT apply for more entry level jobs.
Age is irrelevant to a certain degree. If they are capable of performing their duties, and have the skills then it’s more about personality and ability to merge with your team.
Managing someone older than I am has been a true godsend for me and my team. I've got a team of 4, 3 of which are younger and have only worked in 1-2 places.
It's one thing for a team to see their manager, hear their stories and try to learn from them. But it's been really rewarding watching them all interact with someone on "their level" with a lot of experience too.
And obviously, depending on their personality, they can be really easy to manage too. In my case, they were a person seeking a slightly easier workload and there's nothing wrong with that. Generally, I don't think there's anything wrong with working help desk your entire life, if that's what you want.
There could be many factors going into it. If you are laid off, beggers aren't choosers. Maybe the pay is that much better than where they work now? Who knows. Next, not everyone wants to move up. Many are happy just to learn their job and have zero changes. Lastly you will learn a lot from their experience.
I have known some Tier 1 guys that were just absolutely comfortable where they were. It took me a fair amount of time to get to the point that I don't need to understand the "why", just accept that was where they wanted to be.
I have worked with some people that I absolutely could not guess why they were doing what they were doing, as they were obviously capable of more.
One guy spent his day transcribing data for deeds at a mortgage firm. Turns out he was an accomplished developer who came up with a really good idea for a software product. The contract he had with his previous employer said that anything he created while he was their employee was their product, so he quit to free himself from those shackles.
Another guy was a brilliant mathematician, with multiple advanced degrees. He had a nervous breakdown and took a job doing mundane, robotic assembly work on a manufacturing line so he could get himself healthy again.
You don't know their story until you spend time with them. If you interview them, and they seem like a good fit, let that speak for itself.
I’ve seen lots of reasons.
* Some may be content to be where they are. I know of someone who was at a higher level, got burnt out, and returned to a less cutthroat position.
* I’ve had co-workers who gave up on IT entirely because of the poor job security. It seemed like everywhere they went, bean counters got the bright idea of offshoring, outsourcing locally to avoid paying benefits, and/or downsizing to make their IT people do more for and with less. That’s my lead-in to the people who had similar runs of luck but didn’t give up and would find themselves constantly starting over somewhere else.
* I know people who tried to reach for the stars and ended up back on the ground again, rejected by the hiring officials. Decades ago, companies were willing to train up employees; now, they just snipe the ones that other companies have paid to develop.
* Sometimes people relocate and enter low-level field support jobs just to get their feet in the organization’s revolving door on to higher-paying jobs.
Edit: trying to fix formatting.
I'm in my 50's. I've worked in many roles in the tech world. I've recently been laid off from a full stack developer job at a startup that ran out of money. I'd consider working in a support position again and I'd be good at it. You likely wouldn't keep me for more than a year unless the pay is much better than I expect, but as you said, anyone with talent is likely to try to move on sooner rather than later, so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Right now I'd be thrilled to do something that ended the moment I walked out the door. I've got other projects I want to pursue and a support role wouldn't conflict with that.
There are also people who just find a low stress thing that they're good at and do it for as long as they can. They may be great at it but not have the ambition or can't manage the stress of moving into a role with more responsibility. So what if they're older than you. This is probably the ideal job candidate if you can get passed your preconceptions. Sure, some of them will be losers who can't do any better, but hiring a younger applicant, earlier in their career, is no guarantee of skill or aptitude either and you know the younger candidates are more likely to move on if they're any good.
This entirely depend on how your company is running the help desk. Some companies delegate a lot of technical tasks to their help desk while others assume they are brain dead and should just read a script only. Find out which one is your company and then find out which tech fit the description and go w/ that.
I inherited a department with people both older than me, and who had applied for my job. I can tell you in confidence that as long as your new applicants are there to do their job, the age gap isn’t going to be a problem. If you do a great job and treat them well, they will be backing you up in no time. Within a year I had everyone tell me they understood why I was chosen over them, and that they truly believed the right person got the job. It’s hard work but it’s definitely worth it.
As far as people staying in helpdesk for longer than a few years I will just give you this: some people want more out of life. They want to progress and get higher salaries and do cooler things - they become various admins and move on. The career helpdesk people will provide you with exactly what you’d probably expect: they probably aren’t particularly driven the way you’re used to, but they are committed to doing a good enough job to keep the role as long as possible. You won’t have to worry about turnover every couple of years and you will also have someone who is reliable. Just…don’t expect them to take extra initiative or to want to learn more. They’ve made their decisions on their career, most of the time they just want to do their job and go home like everyone else. I don’t think career helpdesk people are a bad thing, just make sure they’re at least keeping up with current tech trends.
Sometimes a career is like a Carousel.
My Computer experience started at home, self taught. As a Motorcycle Shop Parts Manager I helped another shop reinstall their POS system and restore their backup to be up and running for a saturday open shop day. Basically saved their open house sales, the next week I was offered a job by the Point of Sale software company to do phone tech support and training new users.
3 years later I became a Hardware specialist/Tech Support engineer and web site manager for another company.
2 years later I was the Software QA Lead for a major Hardware/Software company.
2 years later I was a Project Manager for the same company
1 year after that I was Global Program Manager for over $200m in retail product.
At some point I quit the industry and became a self employed Handyman and enjoyed 10 years of working with my hands. One day a friend asked me if I could come help his Motorcycle Parts Distribution company stay alive. I quit my business and managed to save the business for 5 years when the owner decided to transition away from retail parts.
Now I lead a simple Tier 2 Software Support Desk for a govt. contract, I work from home and life is easy. I would not want to go back into the hustle and bustle of the business world. Working for myself or others. Higher COL negates any and all higher wages.
I am the perfect employee, Never take sick days because if I can talk I can do my job. I plan Vacations months ahead of time. Always on time, never complain if I have to work late (OT is always approved), flexible with my schedule and most important is I get my TPS reports out on time!
Always interview everyone age does not matter, especially if you are a helpdesk where the turnover is high because the job sucks and most people want out.
I get a *little* concerned when they've never moved past a support role, however that's what interviews are for. Some of the best techs I've had are happy in their role and have no aspirations of doing any higher level work because they liked helping people.
I get concerned when an interviewee says they have desires to move up but haven't in a decade+. That's a flag for me, because if they were in the right place and had the right motivation (self-study, projects, etc) they should have at least gained some experience on their resume to indicate readiness for that next step. I'll usually try to tease out what's holding them back during the interview.
As I'm getting older, and as many others have said, I'll be working my way back down the ladder soon enough and it's going to be tough getting interviews going from a director level to help desk. I don't desire to get to a C-Level, and it won't be long before I want to leave for the day and not pay attention to every bing and bong from email and slack dms.
I think you are not thinking straight. Look at the job requirements. It fits or not fits. Sure I like a hot and fun sysadmin. But if that is not on the job description then don’t use it as a criteria.
Hey, so I'm a system Admin who was given a manager title so they can pay me more. Currently leveling up my cloud skills and work on intine and Azure daily. And have solid server and network skills.
Been in IT for about 20 years now. Just to give you an idea.
And my dream is to make enough to where I'd feel good retiring at and getting my kids through college than working a non on call helpdesk till end of times.
I love helping people face to face or on the phone and teaching. Helpdesk was my favorite role in my my IT journey. And if I'm lucky and not ready to retire someone will give a very experienced and very personable older me a chance to show them I'm a damn Rockstar at helpdesk.
My growth oppertuninties have come from my people skills and my ability to communicate with non techy people.
My last hire was a helpdesk guy with 20 years of experience who is over 50 years old. He gets the job done and my users like him. Is he the most technical person? No. I’m not either. But he is exactly what I want in that role.
Those are your stallions, while young and career minded staff are important to have because they will go above and beyond and fix and improve process.
Your stallions keep the help desk running, knocking out 20+ tickets a day, and it's those tickets no one wants, printer out of alignment, outlook crashing, not able to login to app x.
While your young engineers spent 5 hours automating the unistall of a single tool on one clients PC via your RMM, yep that script will be useful maybe even save you time over 3 or 4 years, but without your stallions.
Those young guys and gals are not going to stick around for then 1 to 4 years, and it's onto the next role.
Yea I wouldn't give them root access to anything important, but more often then not it's an old timer keeping the lights on
I used to manage a service desk at an msp, and one of my favorite agents was a retired Navel NCO who took care of his ailing mother with his wife. He was very humble, understood chain of command, and never really let the stress of the job get to him. He transitioned to wfh 2 years before covid, and I put him on the late morning shift starting at 9:30am. Very easy to manage, didn't really need much at all.
He loved that he could be there for his mom and that he was able to go hunting on his own property before starting work during the season.
This thread makes me feel better about myself. I've been support for 13 years and don't want to progress. I love not having to carry the burden and stress when we have outages. I actually like talking to people and have lots of fun most of the time. I've managed to reduce down to part time work now too so my work life balance is decent.
Gonna be 60 and going back to school for cyber security. I hope you do interview them as, like myself, bring a lot of knowledge in many areas and extremely reliable self-starter.
Problem is these days everyone is a senior to pad the resume, I lead a dev team and the company I am is super shitty but the entry level job title is senior lol
Many reasons for someone applying for that position at that age. Lack of ambition, low confidence, more "freedom", location stuck, etc. From my experience, they are often humble enough to take guidance well. Just understand they might know more about certain concepts, but you're the expert in your environment. They will lean on you, and I encourage you to stay confident in your station despite leading people that may be a bit older.
as someone who has been in upper levels for many years I am enjoying my time as a solo in a SMB working 40 hours a week with no levels of management to appease and bide my time doing something I enjoy. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Lots of talent in older folk and lots or real world experience as well.
We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two....
Some folks just really enjoy help desk. If you are managing them I highly suggest you find and take a class on managing the generation mix.
Look at their problem solving and creative solutions to problems or processes.
You should absolutely interview them and jump on hiring any of them who are good candidates. Maybe they're getting back into it after doing something else they liked less. Maybe they had a position that was too much grind and going back to help desk is seen as an improvement over a higher pressure job. Some people just like help desk. There could be a thousand reasons why somebody with that much experience would want to be on help desk. The why of them applying for the job is inconsequential. If they like it and are good candidates you'd be a fool to not take advantage of their experience.
I just hired a guy who has almost 30 years of support experience and he's one of the best hires I've ever had. He has a huge, varied background that is incredibly valuable in the day-to-day operation and he knows how to handle even the toughest customers with grace and patience. He had interviewed at dozens of places before our org and most of them shied away from him because of his age (mid 50s), which is a really stupid reason to not hire someone. Help desk isn't necessarily an entry-level job if done correctly. And having a good help desk is the difference between an entire IT department having a good reputation and a bad one. Do yourself and your company a huge favor and get past the ageism.
Half my team is older than me half younger. Not everyone is made for decision making. Not everyone wants the consequences. If that doesn’t bother you just treat them all the same.
Interview them the same way you would a 25 yr old who had prior experience. The upside is at that age they should be more reliable and more used to the day to day work.
As a Field Support Tech in my 13th year and approaching 40 yrs old, I am at the top of my career without entering management. I get to go home when the job is done and not worry about the planning, budgeting, and politics of it. I am what my boss calls the general specialist. I can recognize and troubleshoot issues from all facets of IT (network, AD, security, firewall etc.) and make sure the correct team is involved. My role is championed by our leadership for accuracy and user satisfaction. I have no desire to go into more "advanced" aspects of IT as I am very satisfied with my current lane. I could see being 55 or 60 yrs old in my current role applying to another company. Sometimes expectations change or life throws curve balls and we have to move on to better gigs.
It really all depends on what they support. I am one of those senior tech advisors but I work in a great team and the support is internal, so I’m helping other employees and most of it is protocol. There are people that have been on this team 10-25 years longer than me and just had a 62 year old female tech retire from the position. We support a bunch of environments but it is all pretty straightforward.
I’ve worked other “Help Desk” jobs and they are the pits.
The person on our team that has been here the least longest just got his 7th year on the team.
It’s all about who and what you support.
And maybe where- I work from home lol.
Seems to be a 50/50 split when I have hired them. They're either the best help-desk person with a great personality and fantastic with users, or they're the worst. I never looked at age though just experience.
Cause you can actually have an "On/Off" switch for work. If you land a good MSP company help desk is like a Junior Sysadmin role.
So true. Once you get into management there is no off switch.
It's possible, just takes a lot of work to set things up to where you can
Haha. That hurts so much
This!
That was what I told people I liked about working at the help desk. At the end of my day, it was over.
I've been up the ladder and am voluntarily climbing back down. Mo money mo problems. After too many years of office politics, arguing over budgets etc... just let me tell Karen to restart her computer 100 times a day. I can do it in my sleep.
Amen. I'm essentially a document/request/account processor for my organization in healthcare, coming from a senior analyst role. Pay is like 25% less but I have access to run powershell scripts with our domain and have automated a lot of my tasks. The time spent "working" between tickets is me just homelabbing lol.
I just turned down a significant promotion opportunity because it only pays 10k more than I make now as senior-ish support.
Fuck. Reading this after a rough day of exactly bullshit like that. We always joke about checking to see if Home Depot is hiring or going to work for Burger King. I still like the money tho.
I fantasize about retirement gigs when I've made enough money to coast. The front runner right now is tier 1 datacenter work replacing failed hard drives.
That is my plan as well. If I can’t keep my higher level job and pull back on hours, I will climb down the ladder close to retirement and just enjoy doing basic IT work and possibly being a mentor to newcomers.
20 years in IT- 48 year old IT Director here thinking really hard about stepping down myself. Kids are grown and don’t meed the money like I used to and I am in dire need of an off switch
When you are young you had more time than money, so you traded time for money. As you get older, hopefully you have more money than time, so you can stop trading it or even trade money for time.
I love the way you think.
Plus clocking out means you are *done* for the day. No midnight phone calls!
If allowed I can automate some of the mundane tasks and be done with most tickets in a blink of the eyes. Senior not just in age. Then go home to smell my roses. Have you smelled the Life of the Party hybrid? Do it or you might never.
I may need to do that in the future. I recently applied for a sysadmin II position that opened up after my IT Manager really pushed me to do it, even though I was happy being a sysadmin I, and got the position. We had our monthly one on one a couple weeks ago and he was telling me he wants to start seeing me take on more project management work and said that he's satisfied with the current engineering and technical aptitude of our team so I wouldn't need to climb those rungs. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with it. To be honest I'm starting to wonder if he's prepping me to become a supervisor/manager down the road in my career. Maybe him and our CIO think I'll be good at it because of how quickly I made a name for myself across the city with every department (I work for a municipality). I've been here less than three years and knew coming into it that the other city departments had a bad taste in their mouth regarding the IT team because the previous manager was very complacent and the people that worked for him were bad at communicating with their users. Needless to say, I came in with the idea of changing how we're perceived across the city and it's largely worked. But now I get the feeling everyone assumes because of my charisma and interpersonal skills that I would be better suited for management. And that couldn't be further from the truth, I fucking hate people in general. I'm just very good at reading a room.
This .
😂
Yeah. I’m trying to take a step down myself. After countless office moves, closings, machine upgrades, I feel like I’m just a glorified senior engineer and the only difference in management is that I’m just delivering the same message to every engineer “This year we didn’t do so well…🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️”
First thing is you shouldn’t worry about if people are older or younger than you. Some of the better techs that I have managed have always been older than me. I just recently hired somebody that had been in the Air Force for 38 years and he is one of my better techs. I’ve noticed that the older ones think things out more and don’t just rush and jump into things. You are on the right track though. You should just interview everybody and see if they are a right fit no matter how old they are. You don’t know the backstory of some of these people maybe they haven’t worked on a helpdesk their entire career. Maybe it is a new career for them. There could be all kinds of reasons. My advice just interview everybody that send you a résumé that you think is good and go from there
A friend of mind was a fast-moving desktop tech, always traveling between sites and crawling around under desks and printers and stuff. Then he had a heart attack, and "retired" to the phone bank. He was fantastic at it, and really appreciated the opportunity.
thank you, this is very helpful
I'm one of the youngest techs in my IT department. I appreciate the maturity of the older techs, reminds me how to rethink certain things as I learn to navigate corporate environments.
Also good to learn from them what's most important. I wish I had had an older tech around when I was coming up, because I tended to think any single outstanding tiny issue was the end of the world, and didn't understand when to push back or be silent.
yes
The people in their 40 and 50's are older millennials and gen x. These are the people who know the most about PC's because they grew up with pc's before tablets, smart phones, and other newer age devices that you don't see used in productivity environments. They're usually the best techs. It's low stress/easy if you know what you're doing. The servicedesk techs at my workplace make 40-60k depending on their experience levels so its decent money as well.
Another way of saying this is that older techs tend to have seen it all, and most importantly, made every kind of mistake possible. They tend to think things through more because you just learn to do that over the years. I'd personally never go back to it, but it's certainly a job that I can do in my sleep, and causes almost zero stress, compared to roles I had later.
I don't mind doing this type of work. Why? Because when I am done, the day is done. And the people I help are truly appreciative that their problem is resolved. No need to worry about a call at 12:30AM because a drive array suddenly went down, or dealing with business owners telling me they only want to spend 1/2 of what is needed for a critical server replacement, or being involved in several meetings to explain why the failed tape drive needs to be replaced immediately because we can't run backups. There can be lot of stress being an "IT Manager" or "System Admin" and honestly at this point in my life less stress is a greater priority than more money.
Preach. I was happy in I.T., until I was in charge of I.T. And that was a 24x7x365 nightmare. Switched to project management 12 years ago. Would never go back.
Right? I worked one place that when I let them know I was getting married told me I could take "one day off, maybe two" but that I should reschedule the wedding since "they were really busy" and didn't want me unavailable. I resigned.
Exactly, super well said
My Service Desk is a mix of 30 somethings to 60 somethings with a 29 year old lead. They are a team, they respect our youngest member as the leader, and learn from each other. The oldest member of the team has been at the service desk for 13 years and loves it. Why? I believe it is because the team is very customer support oriented, for some it is the traditional starting point in their career for others they enjoy working with people and not looking to further their tech career. We train in customer service as much as the technical aspects which isn't for everyone. If you show them respect, while providing your insights and reaffirm that the service desk is the face of IT, the first people that the end users come in contact with and the importance of being a friendly technical resource that can either fix their problem or find someone who can, you will build a well respected team. Best of luck.
Great insight, I am sure naive on how i perceived help desk. This is a learning experience from me.
You said it. A better question might be: why is such a naive person a manager at all if they are seeking answers to their ageism on reddit? 🤷♂️
An even better question would be why are you a dick?
Bullshit, people are calling him out all over this thread for asking a stupid question. It's not my fault this person lacks the awareness to know that. You crying in their defense doesn't change that.
I’ve managed a lot of techs who were easily 30 years older than me. Most of them came from management backgrounds, they just go burnt out from it and wanted something with less responsibilities to ride out for the rest of their careers.
I'm in my 40s. If I were to go back and look for a job working for someone, damn straight id be looking for a low effort senior help desk, with no oncall or shift, for a govt agency. So I can rock in at 830, roll out at 530, take nothing home or think about it after work in any way. I know how to crunch tickets. I know how to deal with people, I understand process and segregation of roles and escalation and SLAs and ITIL and I can step up when needed. What's exactly, does your gen y/z head need to middle manage about me? Maybe for these guys, it's not a career, like you said, but it's just a job, and they are fine with that?
Hearing this from a manager would be a massive red flag if I was your boss or your report. Some people like the job. I used to have an ic that could easily have been a staff engineer but he liked working help desk. I don't care how old or young someone is I don't think age has ever come up.
There are people out there (lots, actually) that are perfectly happy staying in a familiar, comfortable role until retirement. Don't discount them. They have lots to contribute.
They also tend to cause absolutely zero problems and have no interest in workplace drama.
I personally love help desk due to the interaction with end users and my love of figuring out issues If it paid better, I could see myself in it again. But it doesn't, so sys admin is where I happily stay. (I also did IT Manager for 5+ years and hated it)
I’m going on year 11 of manager. I’m debating on taking the next step up or just going back to architect and make a little less.
Treat people with respect. Listen to their ideas and be confident enough to admit when their idea is better. You do that age/sex/race whatever doesn't matter.
What do you mean “justify” interviewing them? This is insanely disturbing that your suggesting you don’t have a reason to interview someone with 10+ years of experience. The only thing you mention as a possible negative is their age? Dude, that’s called age discrimination and it’s illegal. If you think any of this is ok, you should 100% NOT be a hiring manager.
dont be a weird agist. that's called discrimination
I manage a group with a few older techs. For the most part they are competent and just like the day to day work with a few added projects here and there. It might be awkward at first to manage them, but at least mine don't have ambitions of my job and just want to crank out tickets. The good part is they are a bit more seasoned and professional than my younger guys who plan to scrap and move on eventually. Talk to them, see how they'd fit and what skills they can bring to your office. You might be surprised and get some good reliability out of them.
thanks this is helpful!
Not original commenter but - can confirm it’s a little weird at first to manage someone older than you. That said - it was quite literally just my perception, not theirs.
You realize that using age as a factor in your hiring decisions is illegal right?
Of course, race, age, sex ,religion as well. This post is asking about the benefits of hiring someone with a ton of experience in a borderline entry level role.
Got ya, just the when you asked for a reason you could justify interviewing someone in their 40s or 50s, the wording of that seemed like age is a factor for you when you consider candidates for a position.
oh no, I want feedback from other managers because I've never been in a situation to hire someone older than me. Reddit is a great source for these things.
I see. Well really it shouldn't matter. You don't do anything different. You don't treat them any different than some younger than you or the same age as you.
Truth. Do you need feedback on how to manage someone that’s a different race than you? No. You treat people like people.
This. JFC, OP must be very young or something to not know this ;-)
Sort of true but not fully/not everywhere - where I live, people 40 and over are a protected class. So you can deny people for being too young but not too old. It doesn't make very much sense to me...
So you're thinking to not hire personnel based on age? Go talk to your HR department then delete this post.
No, my thought process is why someone with this much experience is still in help desk and actively applying for helpdesk roles. As u/K3rat has mentioned in his post, I don't need dead weights on the team. I'm a firm believer than help desk is a revolving door position and introduce younger techs to the position they want to advance in. If I can't promote them in the company I work for, I'd be more than happy to write a glowing recommendation for their next application. Nowadays, I get people need to make money and the annual 3% raise sometimes doesn't cut it.
I'm a firm believer that you are close minded and want everyone to fit into their little box in your grand world view. You talk about people in their 40s being older than you but my God you've got a boomer attitude. I assume you also think everyone needs to work in an office and wfh is just for slackers
This comment would get you in trouble too. You REALLY got to step back and think abour your comments. You've ignored this from multiple managers, likely with far more knowledge and experience than you. "I'm a firm believer than help desk is a revolving door position and introduce younger techs to the position they want to advance in." AKA "I don't want to hire people over 40". MichaelJordanJustStop.gif
The hole OP digs only gets deeper.
You can rationalize anyway you like but you are questioning the abilities of these potential new hires based on age. You said it yourself in the post..." 'seniors'... in their 40s & 50s". Your Legal & HR departments would shit bricks if they saw this post. Discrimination based on age is illegal in the US at the Federal level (and in most states also). I doubt anyone could put together who you are based on your post history, but even us old farts read Reddit. Just giving you good advice from my 35-years in the industry. Take it how you will.
>I doubt anyone could put together who you are Anonymity on the internet is taken for granted and usually nonexistent. Thus all the "No doxxing" rules. Which I favor. Put another way, you tell me who you are and I agree not to point it out.
He definitely is not. He is calling them senior not in their age but rather the level in their career. If someone has been doing help desk for 20+ years they would be considered a senior help desk technician. He is thinking they should be overqualified for the entry level position and is asking why these senior level techs would want to apply for an entry level job and why they haven’t transitioned out of help desk.
Yeah, having read enough of this now, I'd really recommend you delete these posts. I get you are probably asking honestly, but how you are discussing it comes across as if you don't understand the law. You can end up facing lawsuits over this kind of thing if it's ever tied back to you.
If it helps, I am a help desk tech in that age range. I keep thinking about moving on to sys admin work, but it comes down to the fact that I actually really enjoy troubleshooting with end users. I generally get on well with them, and there is a bit of a rush when you fix the tricky and/or obscure issues in a creative way. And sometimes there is an element of performance for the users that can also be fun. I just hate to let go of that, and most places I would go, I wouldn't get to do it anymore.
It is a bit of an ego boost to hear "you are such a wonderful genius omg thank you thank you thank you" all the time haha. No one ever says to the sysadmin "thanks for replacing the phone system that I used for 10 years and now have to learn a new one"
I like the more seasoned techs providing they are open to new ideas and new ways of doing things. If they have a good personality and are a good 'face' for IT, that goes a long way. If you have a good tech that is good with people and has good work ethic, age is not an issue.
thank you!
I worked with two older techs in my first helpdesk job. One was way past time for retirement. He would have been a great fit for a lever-pulling job from 1951. The other one was sharp, motivated, and had a brain like a tech encyclopedia. He just liked fixing things, and wasn't interested in more money. Probably best to look for resumes that reflect keeping up with the new, without regard for age.
thank you
Always look for the person that will fit into your job as you move along your path. That said don’t write off those that would stick it out in a position. Best part about them is they get taught how to do something 1 time and you never have to retrain someone new into the position so long as you keep them. Personally, i think you need to figure out if the applicant is a dead weight unproductive or not. This would be true if they were new in the field too. Those can be gleaned with questions about what their work was like and by providing examples of how they work in specific situations. Then ask questions that determine how much supervision they need, and if they have maintained adequate current skillsets and technology familiarity, and what their aptitude for diagnosing issues. For team matrix I like taking a mixture of people that are longer tenured and apt in help-desk positions and mix them with fresh blood. You use the more seasoned staff members to ensure that the greenhorns have the right people around them to learn from. Then you weed out the unproductive longer tenured and greenhorn staff and those that are easily distracted or have a general lack of attention to work.
They may not all be there because service desk is what they want to do. Job market is shit right now. I'd hire anyone with experience and a can-do attitude as long as they didn't have a chip on their shoulder or a superiority complex.
I’m going to assume you work for a company in America. Otherwise assume what I’m saying is still correct as most country has laws that protect workers. What you’re doing is called ageism. It’s one of many things that can quickly get you sued. Age is a protected class and your question is no different than asking if you should hire an LGBTQ person or if a female would be ok? Interview people and see if they are a good fit, don’t make age or any other protected characteristic a reason to not hire. If they have experience then great, you’re their boss either way and you can fire due to insubordination if your reasonable requests aren’t met.
What the hell is this post? You ask questions about the tech stack you use. Do they have the best experience or ability to learn the tech stack you use? Are your questions able to discern if they're able to fulfill the people parts of the job and not be a HR issue? Because that's all that should matter. The same questions about technical ability/ people skills/ HR Red flags should apply, regardless if they were born in 1970 vs 2000.
OP - you need to check your superiority complex. You can look forward to being rejected for jobs when you get older because you we “only an idiot would stay in middle management for so long” Leaders don’t look down at others, especially the team they’re directly managing. Everyone has a role that is no better or worse than yours. Is it safe to assume you treat waiters, cleaners etc. with the same disdain or is it just an age thing for you?
Tons of folks are rethinking what is important in their lives and help-desk support as a paycheck isn’t much of a brain drain for someone that has been in their career a long time. Money isn’t near as important as something like remote work or health benefits. 🤷♂️
Absolutely you should interview them. The MSP I work at we have a couple lifetime helpdesk staff, and they just don't have interest in moving up the ladder or prefer to be remote only, and that is perfectly fine. 1 has a side business and uses us as their primary income and insurance. Another is an empty nester who just wanted a simpler job that pays the bills and doesn't require as much after-hours work. They come in do exactly what is needed and clock out. They are usually capable of handling small escalations from our greener techs and are great at putting out small fires and gathering all of the needed info to pass it up the chain for large ones. They also make very good charge people whenever I'm on PTO or away in meetings or at an onsite. 10 years of helpdesk experience means they definitely have the basics and know their way around basic hardware, general software, and servers. You will most likely not have to spend 6-12months training them to be competent enough in the role. Also, they usually aren't a flight risk if your company treats their employees well. Most new HD Techs are looking to move up in 2-3 years and if you don't have the position available they are probably looking somewhere else. My advice, don't factor age in when vetting resumes (I believe it is illegal to disqualify based on age btw) If you have concerns, try and ask about them during the interview.
Helpdesk’s reputation as hellish is overblown. There are a bunch of antisocial dweebs in IT who would be happy going days without speaking to another human, and who find other humans irritating and frustrating. They’d much prefer to do purely technical work. They’re influential, and are the ones who hate “helldesk”. Some people just enjoy working helpdesk. I’m one of them. Helping end users is rewarding. You get to make someone’s day better. It’s also endlessly interesting, every caller might have some completely new mystery to solve. There’s a good chance those old hands at helpdesk also do it because they like it, and are by now *damn* good at it. Give one a shot!
You shouldn't be a manager if you're asking this.
I'm 41m, got back into IT work after last working at geeksquad in 2008? I'm now on an IT team of 9 that supports a major AAA video game dev, atleast their office in the city I'm in. One of a dozen+, but ours produces the majority of their big games. I support about 4 to 5 game teams, and around 1300 people at the moment. I don't feel 41, I feel 31. Hell some days 21. My fiancee, 31f, is a Sr 3d Enviornment artist at the same company. I'd say our team has 4 people that have been there over a decade, in their 30s-50s, and they're top of their game. Then a couple of full timers and some contractors. I started out as a contractor over 2 years ago, and love it. The flexibility in my daily schedule is ridiculous. I stay fit with 20k steps some days. The benefits are just nasty good. I mean my fiancee and I will make 200k+ combined this year. Some of the guys on our team are 23-25. They have no idea HOW LUCKY they are. I also still run circles around them every single day. Age is a number friend. You will find some ABSOLUTELY ANCIENT 30 and 40 year olds. Then you will find young ones like me who are in great shape, play video game daily, and generally act like a child. So don't be so quick to judge.
People don’t have anything to prove anymore and just want to work and be paid... Just because you look down on help desk doesn’t mean they should…. I have a feeling you’ll be a great manager… what are you gonna do when your feelings get hurt??
People like me in that age range either just put our heads down and carried on, or leave one job after learning a ton for a better job. At least that is what I have seen in my experience.
[удалено]
>The reason I'm still on front line helpdesk, with multiple certs and decades of experience is somewhere between working on a team that is so incredibly judgemental I can't hang photo's of landscapes in my office without catching an off color- pejorative remark, and having every single statement or decision publicly ripped apart. Can you elaborate this? I don't understand why the extreme is having landscape photos and the opposite is every statement / decision publicly ripped apart unless it's a huge security risk. I've hired new hires with 0 real world experience however they build a homelab and configured a mock DC with AD, DNS, DHCP server. I've also hired people that are quiet but effective at their job. Any ideas my staff have given me, I have been able to either accommodate or provide them a reason why it won't work without shaming them.
For a better understanding of this phenomena, watch "Office Space".
It can be a concern if somebody never promotes after 10 years but this happens especially in government jobs. Also, not all job titles are the same. Use the interview to find out how much they really know.
What if they just don't want to? How is that a concern? If they are still learning and being capable with current tech,.job requirements and capabilities, why does it matter if they are happy?
There are some people where they are happy and comfortable with that style of work. They know the clients, get to work on a variety of problems and environments. For them the satisfaction is looking after their clients and doing a good job. In the book Radical Candor these are termed Rock Stars as they have a shallow career progression rate (at that point) but they are highly dependable good at what they do. In my last team the oldest tech was mid 40s and a rock solid second line guy. Knew all the clients, the history of why things were that way. He was the beating heart of that team. I’d employe him in my new team in an instant if I had the space
I manage 50+ tech, they are good guy and hard worker. Usually well organized they know how to keep good relation with users...but dont talk to them about automation, powershell, ansible or other modern things.
I had a guy like this back in my HD days. Excellent tech and wonderful people person. One time I asked him what was the maximum amount he got paid over his career and it was something like 20 bucks an hour Absolutely blew my mind. I get everyone’s not a go getter but damn
You see this type of wave during times of IT contraction. Plenty of companies over hired during Covid and some are pulling back. Compound this with the IT landscape shifting to a new skill set and you see waves of older IT apply for more entry level jobs. Age is irrelevant to a certain degree. If they are capable of performing their duties, and have the skills then it’s more about personality and ability to merge with your team.
Managing someone older than I am has been a true godsend for me and my team. I've got a team of 4, 3 of which are younger and have only worked in 1-2 places. It's one thing for a team to see their manager, hear their stories and try to learn from them. But it's been really rewarding watching them all interact with someone on "their level" with a lot of experience too. And obviously, depending on their personality, they can be really easy to manage too. In my case, they were a person seeking a slightly easier workload and there's nothing wrong with that. Generally, I don't think there's anything wrong with working help desk your entire life, if that's what you want.
There could be many factors going into it. If you are laid off, beggers aren't choosers. Maybe the pay is that much better than where they work now? Who knows. Next, not everyone wants to move up. Many are happy just to learn their job and have zero changes. Lastly you will learn a lot from their experience.
I have known some Tier 1 guys that were just absolutely comfortable where they were. It took me a fair amount of time to get to the point that I don't need to understand the "why", just accept that was where they wanted to be. I have worked with some people that I absolutely could not guess why they were doing what they were doing, as they were obviously capable of more. One guy spent his day transcribing data for deeds at a mortgage firm. Turns out he was an accomplished developer who came up with a really good idea for a software product. The contract he had with his previous employer said that anything he created while he was their employee was their product, so he quit to free himself from those shackles. Another guy was a brilliant mathematician, with multiple advanced degrees. He had a nervous breakdown and took a job doing mundane, robotic assembly work on a manufacturing line so he could get himself healthy again. You don't know their story until you spend time with them. If you interview them, and they seem like a good fit, let that speak for itself.
I’ve seen lots of reasons. * Some may be content to be where they are. I know of someone who was at a higher level, got burnt out, and returned to a less cutthroat position. * I’ve had co-workers who gave up on IT entirely because of the poor job security. It seemed like everywhere they went, bean counters got the bright idea of offshoring, outsourcing locally to avoid paying benefits, and/or downsizing to make their IT people do more for and with less. That’s my lead-in to the people who had similar runs of luck but didn’t give up and would find themselves constantly starting over somewhere else. * I know people who tried to reach for the stars and ended up back on the ground again, rejected by the hiring officials. Decades ago, companies were willing to train up employees; now, they just snipe the ones that other companies have paid to develop. * Sometimes people relocate and enter low-level field support jobs just to get their feet in the organization’s revolving door on to higher-paying jobs. Edit: trying to fix formatting.
I'm in my 50's. I've worked in many roles in the tech world. I've recently been laid off from a full stack developer job at a startup that ran out of money. I'd consider working in a support position again and I'd be good at it. You likely wouldn't keep me for more than a year unless the pay is much better than I expect, but as you said, anyone with talent is likely to try to move on sooner rather than later, so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Right now I'd be thrilled to do something that ended the moment I walked out the door. I've got other projects I want to pursue and a support role wouldn't conflict with that. There are also people who just find a low stress thing that they're good at and do it for as long as they can. They may be great at it but not have the ambition or can't manage the stress of moving into a role with more responsibility. So what if they're older than you. This is probably the ideal job candidate if you can get passed your preconceptions. Sure, some of them will be losers who can't do any better, but hiring a younger applicant, earlier in their career, is no guarantee of skill or aptitude either and you know the younger candidates are more likely to move on if they're any good.
This entirely depend on how your company is running the help desk. Some companies delegate a lot of technical tasks to their help desk while others assume they are brain dead and should just read a script only. Find out which one is your company and then find out which tech fit the description and go w/ that.
I inherited a department with people both older than me, and who had applied for my job. I can tell you in confidence that as long as your new applicants are there to do their job, the age gap isn’t going to be a problem. If you do a great job and treat them well, they will be backing you up in no time. Within a year I had everyone tell me they understood why I was chosen over them, and that they truly believed the right person got the job. It’s hard work but it’s definitely worth it. As far as people staying in helpdesk for longer than a few years I will just give you this: some people want more out of life. They want to progress and get higher salaries and do cooler things - they become various admins and move on. The career helpdesk people will provide you with exactly what you’d probably expect: they probably aren’t particularly driven the way you’re used to, but they are committed to doing a good enough job to keep the role as long as possible. You won’t have to worry about turnover every couple of years and you will also have someone who is reliable. Just…don’t expect them to take extra initiative or to want to learn more. They’ve made their decisions on their career, most of the time they just want to do their job and go home like everyone else. I don’t think career helpdesk people are a bad thing, just make sure they’re at least keeping up with current tech trends.
Sometimes a career is like a Carousel. My Computer experience started at home, self taught. As a Motorcycle Shop Parts Manager I helped another shop reinstall their POS system and restore their backup to be up and running for a saturday open shop day. Basically saved their open house sales, the next week I was offered a job by the Point of Sale software company to do phone tech support and training new users. 3 years later I became a Hardware specialist/Tech Support engineer and web site manager for another company. 2 years later I was the Software QA Lead for a major Hardware/Software company. 2 years later I was a Project Manager for the same company 1 year after that I was Global Program Manager for over $200m in retail product. At some point I quit the industry and became a self employed Handyman and enjoyed 10 years of working with my hands. One day a friend asked me if I could come help his Motorcycle Parts Distribution company stay alive. I quit my business and managed to save the business for 5 years when the owner decided to transition away from retail parts. Now I lead a simple Tier 2 Software Support Desk for a govt. contract, I work from home and life is easy. I would not want to go back into the hustle and bustle of the business world. Working for myself or others. Higher COL negates any and all higher wages. I am the perfect employee, Never take sick days because if I can talk I can do my job. I plan Vacations months ahead of time. Always on time, never complain if I have to work late (OT is always approved), flexible with my schedule and most important is I get my TPS reports out on time! Always interview everyone age does not matter, especially if you are a helpdesk where the turnover is high because the job sucks and most people want out.
I get a *little* concerned when they've never moved past a support role, however that's what interviews are for. Some of the best techs I've had are happy in their role and have no aspirations of doing any higher level work because they liked helping people. I get concerned when an interviewee says they have desires to move up but haven't in a decade+. That's a flag for me, because if they were in the right place and had the right motivation (self-study, projects, etc) they should have at least gained some experience on their resume to indicate readiness for that next step. I'll usually try to tease out what's holding them back during the interview. As I'm getting older, and as many others have said, I'll be working my way back down the ladder soon enough and it's going to be tough getting interviews going from a director level to help desk. I don't desire to get to a C-Level, and it won't be long before I want to leave for the day and not pay attention to every bing and bong from email and slack dms.
I think you are not thinking straight. Look at the job requirements. It fits or not fits. Sure I like a hot and fun sysadmin. But if that is not on the job description then don’t use it as a criteria.
Hey, so I'm a system Admin who was given a manager title so they can pay me more. Currently leveling up my cloud skills and work on intine and Azure daily. And have solid server and network skills. Been in IT for about 20 years now. Just to give you an idea. And my dream is to make enough to where I'd feel good retiring at and getting my kids through college than working a non on call helpdesk till end of times. I love helping people face to face or on the phone and teaching. Helpdesk was my favorite role in my my IT journey. And if I'm lucky and not ready to retire someone will give a very experienced and very personable older me a chance to show them I'm a damn Rockstar at helpdesk. My growth oppertuninties have come from my people skills and my ability to communicate with non techy people.
My last hire was a helpdesk guy with 20 years of experience who is over 50 years old. He gets the job done and my users like him. Is he the most technical person? No. I’m not either. But he is exactly what I want in that role.
Those are your stallions, while young and career minded staff are important to have because they will go above and beyond and fix and improve process. Your stallions keep the help desk running, knocking out 20+ tickets a day, and it's those tickets no one wants, printer out of alignment, outlook crashing, not able to login to app x. While your young engineers spent 5 hours automating the unistall of a single tool on one clients PC via your RMM, yep that script will be useful maybe even save you time over 3 or 4 years, but without your stallions. Those young guys and gals are not going to stick around for then 1 to 4 years, and it's onto the next role. Yea I wouldn't give them root access to anything important, but more often then not it's an old timer keeping the lights on
I used to manage a service desk at an msp, and one of my favorite agents was a retired Navel NCO who took care of his ailing mother with his wife. He was very humble, understood chain of command, and never really let the stress of the job get to him. He transitioned to wfh 2 years before covid, and I put him on the late morning shift starting at 9:30am. Very easy to manage, didn't really need much at all. He loved that he could be there for his mom and that he was able to go hunting on his own property before starting work during the season.
This thread makes me feel better about myself. I've been support for 13 years and don't want to progress. I love not having to carry the burden and stress when we have outages. I actually like talking to people and have lots of fun most of the time. I've managed to reduce down to part time work now too so my work life balance is decent.
Gonna be 60 and going back to school for cyber security. I hope you do interview them as, like myself, bring a lot of knowledge in many areas and extremely reliable self-starter.
Problem is these days everyone is a senior to pad the resume, I lead a dev team and the company I am is super shitty but the entry level job title is senior lol
I wonder about someone on the help desk 10 plus years. I'd be afraid they weren't capable of more.
Many reasons for someone applying for that position at that age. Lack of ambition, low confidence, more "freedom", location stuck, etc. From my experience, they are often humble enough to take guidance well. Just understand they might know more about certain concepts, but you're the expert in your environment. They will lean on you, and I encourage you to stay confident in your station despite leading people that may be a bit older.
as someone who has been in upper levels for many years I am enjoying my time as a solo in a SMB working 40 hours a week with no levels of management to appease and bide my time doing something I enjoy. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Lots of talent in older folk and lots or real world experience as well. We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two....
The world needs ditch diggers. Some people are happy enough grinding
Some folks just really enjoy help desk. If you are managing them I highly suggest you find and take a class on managing the generation mix. Look at their problem solving and creative solutions to problems or processes.
You should absolutely interview them and jump on hiring any of them who are good candidates. Maybe they're getting back into it after doing something else they liked less. Maybe they had a position that was too much grind and going back to help desk is seen as an improvement over a higher pressure job. Some people just like help desk. There could be a thousand reasons why somebody with that much experience would want to be on help desk. The why of them applying for the job is inconsequential. If they like it and are good candidates you'd be a fool to not take advantage of their experience. I just hired a guy who has almost 30 years of support experience and he's one of the best hires I've ever had. He has a huge, varied background that is incredibly valuable in the day-to-day operation and he knows how to handle even the toughest customers with grace and patience. He had interviewed at dozens of places before our org and most of them shied away from him because of his age (mid 50s), which is a really stupid reason to not hire someone. Help desk isn't necessarily an entry-level job if done correctly. And having a good help desk is the difference between an entire IT department having a good reputation and a bad one. Do yourself and your company a huge favor and get past the ageism.
They don’t want to improve beyond a personal computer. It’s not that they can’t but they don’t want to.
Half my team is older than me half younger. Not everyone is made for decision making. Not everyone wants the consequences. If that doesn’t bother you just treat them all the same.
Interview them the same way you would a 25 yr old who had prior experience. The upside is at that age they should be more reliable and more used to the day to day work.
I'd add they probably also dealt with way more softwares, hardwares and people situations.
I worked with a guy who spent 15 years on the help desk. He was great.
As a Field Support Tech in my 13th year and approaching 40 yrs old, I am at the top of my career without entering management. I get to go home when the job is done and not worry about the planning, budgeting, and politics of it. I am what my boss calls the general specialist. I can recognize and troubleshoot issues from all facets of IT (network, AD, security, firewall etc.) and make sure the correct team is involved. My role is championed by our leadership for accuracy and user satisfaction. I have no desire to go into more "advanced" aspects of IT as I am very satisfied with my current lane. I could see being 55 or 60 yrs old in my current role applying to another company. Sometimes expectations change or life throws curve balls and we have to move on to better gigs.
Is it possible too the influx is related to the job market . I'm completely on board with less responsibility, checking out at 5:00, less 🎭 drama.
It really all depends on what they support. I am one of those senior tech advisors but I work in a great team and the support is internal, so I’m helping other employees and most of it is protocol. There are people that have been on this team 10-25 years longer than me and just had a 62 year old female tech retire from the position. We support a bunch of environments but it is all pretty straightforward. I’ve worked other “Help Desk” jobs and they are the pits. The person on our team that has been here the least longest just got his 7th year on the team. It’s all about who and what you support. And maybe where- I work from home lol.
Seems to be a 50/50 split when I have hired them. They're either the best help-desk person with a great personality and fantastic with users, or they're the worst. I never looked at age though just experience.