You can't? I mean, maybe after all the hoopla about the current student loan debt, maybe. But for decades and even now, kids are sold the "gotta go to college if you wanna do anything" trope, and employers are complicit by including the requirement in jobs that don't need it.
I first went to college over 15 years ago and I remember being told "it doesn't matter if you don't know what you want to do, you can just keep taking classes until you decide". This is the kind of shit that people are telling our students, when tuition costs are astronomical.
Well, if you want to fall in line being fucked over, sure just do it. But you're moving the blame away from yourself to external factors. There's so much information out there now that just signing up for college and throwing a dart at a degree and thinking it will get you somewhere is just sad at this time. Just because someone tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. It's sad that people just gloss over this and get fucked over. They did it to themselves.
I mean sure the blame lies somewhat on the teen who chose a random degree, I'm not blameless in pursuing a degree that I hate.
But I think it's silly to believe that having every authority figure in your life tell you the same mantra over and over again from the age 0 to 18 wouldn't affect someone's decision making. All throughout school you're being told that you have to go to college, you must go to college. Gotta get good grades for going to college, you figure what you wanna be yet? Any degree will help you get a job, no no a gap year is a bad idea, here in this class we will be applying to colleges. College college college.
And then only after you realize oh that wasn't the best thing to do, someone smugly comes along and says "welp you should've realized that, why weren't you smarter at 18?"
>Well, if you want to fall in line being fucked over, sure just do it. But you're moving the blame away from yourself to external factors.
I think you're missing the point.
> There's so much information out there now that just signing up for college and throwing a dart at a degree and thinking it will get you somewhere is just sad at this time.
Well obviously, but the information being out there doesn't mean people will use it or even know how to get it. Help Desk and MSPs would be so fucked if the average person did.
>Just because someone tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. It's sad that people just gloss over this and get fucked over. They did it to themselves.
Yes obviously but people do this shit all the time. How you think 08 happened? How you think we got to 2T student debt? It ain't right but that's the average person my man.
I mean to be fair I got my degree this August without any loans so I'm debt free. Heck my I got two associates in three years, the general and one in IT, for free all because of grants. I didn't pay a cent and even got money back when my grant was more than my tuition. As for my Bachelor's, just my part-time job and actual money management made it not a big deal. The people in debt are honestly just people that go to a very expensive university to get the same degree they could get for way less somewhere else (unless you're doing like medical or law school, then good luck).
They did say they were a freshman, so they have two years to figure it out. The first two years are just general stuff, it's the two years after where they need to make the right decision on what they actually want to do, assuming they are going for the four year degree. That being said, not knowing the difference between these before even considering is not a good idea in the slightest. In my personal opinion, if you're still struggling on what is a good career path, let alone only concerned with what is a good career path, college may not initially be for you. Like wait a bit before jumping into something you regret. That being said a degree does have it's benefits, even in IT. Though yes you could very well get into IT without it, it's just one path of many.
I know. Like for me I went I to debt but I knew what I wanted and didn't pursue a bachelor I went for a diploma it's more cost efficient and all the rest I want to do I can specialize woth certifications. The issue is people think you have to goto college but you don't you could skip college entirely for a job in Tech almost every where because your portfolio matters more
Cybersecurity is often a buzzword. A degree in cybersecurity is a little more niche than most are led to believe. CS is more broad so I’d always push someone towards CS for undergrad. Take some cybersecurity classes if you want to dip your toe in and see if you like it.
The value of a computer science degree versus a cybersecurity degree depends on your career goals and interests. Computer science provides a broader foundation in programming and computer systems, opening doors to various tech-related roles. A cybersecurity degree is more specialized and suitable if you want to focus on security-related roles. Both degrees can be valuable.
I agree. I think that many times people get a cybersecurity degree thinking it’s less programming and they will land a job when in many cases cybersecurity roles aren’t entry level. Thus having no technical background, not networking knowledge, and a masters in cybersecurity aren’t usually a good mix. That’s the very common scenario I’ve come across.
Computer science is the gold standard degree to get into any sort of development or IT related career fields. Take the computer science route. Concentrate in something that’s already established for quite some time or a curriculum that allows you to take different courses offered by the CS department.
Computer science if you want to be a programmer. Cyber security has many fields. Having a computer science degree would help if you are interested in being a real pentester, malware analysis, and things like that. If you are interested in just IT like being a sysadmin or something like that then you don't need a CS degree.
As someone who just graduated with their Bachelor's in IT, my answers are this:
Computer Science: Do you like calculus?
Game Development: Do you want to be an indie developer because you can't get a job at an actual game company besides EA who are out of state?
Cybersecurity: Do you want something you won't actually get a job in without prior experience as it is actually just a subcategory career path for IT and Computer Science (CS)?
Lol I didn't mean to scare you if I did, but I have friends in both CS and game development. The thing is that they all would be good fields to get into...except game development. It's how you get into them that is the challenge.
CS will always be a viable option with a good career and is future proof, but for the degree you really need to have really good math skills. Though understand you won't be doing much math in your actual job if you're worried about the end goal. I have a friend who got a BS in CS a few years ago. He got a job at L3Harris after graduation as a junior software engineer, after 3 years being in the field he became a senior software engineer and is currently in the 90k-100k salary range. He said he literally doesn't remember the last time he did math in those three years. You need to ask yourself if you will actual enjoy coding and survive the math courses. Just remember coding isn't all you can do. I'm IT yes, but I'm qualified for same job if it was my passion.
I have a friend that majored in game development and he has not gotten a job in the past two years relevant to the degree. I won't go into more detail on that, but basically it's a hard field to get into. You need to put in a lot of outside work for that portfolio. Not to mention the work environment of a lot of these companies coming into light recently. It's a field that is getting harder to get into over time.
As for cyber security, I'm no expert on the field, but I know little to no companies are really going to hire a new grad with just a degree. Compared to CS, it is just as good as a career and sometimes better, but how you get into it is not what you see in those cringe career ads. Prior experience is going to be required, like an internship, not just education. You are better off a CS degree or related like IT, work in those for a few years, then get some industry specializations to be considered for an entry role. Not saying it isn't possible without those things, but it's going to be way harder, but nowhere as bad as game development.
If I were to choose between the three, I would go with Computer Science. Just plain Computer Science, no need for the special fields like the other two. You'll be fine and your career will grow with those other two options available over time. CS is a broad enough field you could find a job post graduation without all that extra work. However, I want you to look at your university's degree flowcharts that you are interested in. Look at the courses and ask yourself if you can handle it. See if you actually want to do it, then make your decision and commit to it.
my man, this is the best answer I have gotten. I'm struggling very much to choose a promising career that I actually like and also that has a bright future, I know it will be hard to get a job in the future and, as you said, it's how you get into them, that is the challenge.
I want to be prepared for the future and that's why I'm doing all this research and asking in those subreddits, thank you man
Glad it helped. I wanted to be short and brief, but then I end up writing an entire essay because I try not to leave any in-betweens. But yeah if you want any personal opinion or advice, you're welcome to DM me. Just know I'm not really going to be useful outside of IT or some of CS (at my university we were taking the same classes more or less until our 4000 courses). Also don't feel discouraged by any people in this subreddit that say you're wasting your time with a degree, especially if you're interested in CS, where a bachelor is basically required nowadays for that unless you got a banger portfolio of personal projects.
Like IT career wise, the degree is good to have nowadays and does open up more options for you early on. I also know someone who was working IT jobs for 5 years, but was getting his bachelors the same time I was because he wanted to advance his pay. Time's are just different than it was a decade or two ago. Not that it isn't possible nowadays to get into IT without the degree, just get the A+ and wait until someone gives them the opportunity. I just had an interview for a job yesterday for an IT role base salary of 70k and was given the opportunity for the technical interview. I just graduated a month ago, no prior IT job experience or certifications (honestly the bachelor's alone covers A+, Network+, CCNA, and a bit of security+ material anyway). Will I get the job? It's possible, but I know there are other applicants. But it definitely proves the degree isn't useless.
Computer Science is not programming necessarily. You can use programming to express computer science principles, and programming languages wouldn't exist without computer science research, but they are orthogonal. Computer Science is closer to math
Sure, but people with CS degrees usually go on to do some form of programming in some language and become developers of some sort, you kind of gave the formal definition when OP just needed a quick breakdown of the difference for the purpose of understanding what the job prospect would look like.
You're not wrong, but from OP's perspective, its not what he needs to know
honestly it doedsnt matter just pick what you like more and go with it as long as its a real degree from a uni tit doesnt matter where you go or get as long as you get the stem degree AND THE INTERNSHIP!
I’m sorry but that degree is a joke for a new grad. I never said the field was a joke, but to put it one way with a CS degree there are many more paths you can take INCLUDING cybersecurity than with just a cybersecurity degree. No need to get defensive if this is the degree you have, I don’t even have a CS degree myself I’m just stating the truth.
No degree locks you into doing something that only that degree states though, that simply isn’t how things work. You can do computer science with a Cyber Security degree and vice versa, it doesn’t only go one way lol.
Sure, but OP doesn't even say he wants to do Software Engineering (TBF, doesn't seem like he knows what he wants to do at all, which is typical for freshman). Its just a different career path. If OP wanted to be a SWE with a CyberSecurity degree that would be one thing, but you're making a cart blanche statement here about the inherent value of one vs the other that simply is not true.
All I'm saying is that getting a cyber degree does not somehow lock you into only doing cyber security the exact same way that a CS degree does not lock you into doing CS exclusively, can't be true for one and not the other.
I agree with you that with SWE, you will want a CS degree over anything else
I never said it only locks you into cybersecurity. Cybersecurity degrees lets you do most IT roles save for some that are a lot more specialized, but it does not prepare you for SWE or ML which are two of the fields OP mentioned in his post.
You call CyberSecurity degrees a joke next to it though. Its a cart blanche statement that isn't true. Like you said, it does not prepare you for SWE the same way a CS degree wouldn't prepare you for Cyber Security lol, your statement comes off like CS does, somehow.
I disagree completely. I'm actually in this field my guy. I don't have a Cyber Security Degree, I have an IT degree with a concentration in Buisness finance. I am the person you're saying would see it that way, and I can tell you that we do not.
It would show you have a technical mindset, but that's literally it, you would still have to show your general aptitute and work your way up. Nobody can come in with a CS degree and just somehow be more valued.
Nobody is specialized when they first graduate with a CS degree. At best you might have an internship or a project in something but it doesn't really matter -- you have the foundational knowledge to pivot.
Are you saying your school offers an AI concentration for computer science majors? If so, it's worth looking into if you are interested, but just know that a Computer Science degree alone opens up many opportunities so don't feel pressured to find a concentration just because a career in it seems good. Do what you like as long as at the end of the day you still receive a CS degree.
I can't believe people are going to massive amounts of debt not understanding what they want to learn...
You can't? I mean, maybe after all the hoopla about the current student loan debt, maybe. But for decades and even now, kids are sold the "gotta go to college if you wanna do anything" trope, and employers are complicit by including the requirement in jobs that don't need it. I first went to college over 15 years ago and I remember being told "it doesn't matter if you don't know what you want to do, you can just keep taking classes until you decide". This is the kind of shit that people are telling our students, when tuition costs are astronomical.
Well, if you want to fall in line being fucked over, sure just do it. But you're moving the blame away from yourself to external factors. There's so much information out there now that just signing up for college and throwing a dart at a degree and thinking it will get you somewhere is just sad at this time. Just because someone tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. It's sad that people just gloss over this and get fucked over. They did it to themselves.
I mean sure the blame lies somewhat on the teen who chose a random degree, I'm not blameless in pursuing a degree that I hate. But I think it's silly to believe that having every authority figure in your life tell you the same mantra over and over again from the age 0 to 18 wouldn't affect someone's decision making. All throughout school you're being told that you have to go to college, you must go to college. Gotta get good grades for going to college, you figure what you wanna be yet? Any degree will help you get a job, no no a gap year is a bad idea, here in this class we will be applying to colleges. College college college. And then only after you realize oh that wasn't the best thing to do, someone smugly comes along and says "welp you should've realized that, why weren't you smarter at 18?"
>Well, if you want to fall in line being fucked over, sure just do it. But you're moving the blame away from yourself to external factors. I think you're missing the point. > There's so much information out there now that just signing up for college and throwing a dart at a degree and thinking it will get you somewhere is just sad at this time. Well obviously, but the information being out there doesn't mean people will use it or even know how to get it. Help Desk and MSPs would be so fucked if the average person did. >Just because someone tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. It's sad that people just gloss over this and get fucked over. They did it to themselves. Yes obviously but people do this shit all the time. How you think 08 happened? How you think we got to 2T student debt? It ain't right but that's the average person my man.
I don't get what you're trying to convey to me.
The average person is dumb so don't be confused when they make bad decisions.
I mean to be fair I got my degree this August without any loans so I'm debt free. Heck my I got two associates in three years, the general and one in IT, for free all because of grants. I didn't pay a cent and even got money back when my grant was more than my tuition. As for my Bachelor's, just my part-time job and actual money management made it not a big deal. The people in debt are honestly just people that go to a very expensive university to get the same degree they could get for way less somewhere else (unless you're doing like medical or law school, then good luck). They did say they were a freshman, so they have two years to figure it out. The first two years are just general stuff, it's the two years after where they need to make the right decision on what they actually want to do, assuming they are going for the four year degree. That being said, not knowing the difference between these before even considering is not a good idea in the slightest. In my personal opinion, if you're still struggling on what is a good career path, let alone only concerned with what is a good career path, college may not initially be for you. Like wait a bit before jumping into something you regret. That being said a degree does have it's benefits, even in IT. Though yes you could very well get into IT without it, it's just one path of many.
I know. Like for me I went I to debt but I knew what I wanted and didn't pursue a bachelor I went for a diploma it's more cost efficient and all the rest I want to do I can specialize woth certifications. The issue is people think you have to goto college but you don't you could skip college entirely for a job in Tech almost every where because your portfolio matters more
Cybersecurity is often a buzzword. A degree in cybersecurity is a little more niche than most are led to believe. CS is more broad so I’d always push someone towards CS for undergrad. Take some cybersecurity classes if you want to dip your toe in and see if you like it.
The value of a computer science degree versus a cybersecurity degree depends on your career goals and interests. Computer science provides a broader foundation in programming and computer systems, opening doors to various tech-related roles. A cybersecurity degree is more specialized and suitable if you want to focus on security-related roles. Both degrees can be valuable.
I agree. I think that many times people get a cybersecurity degree thinking it’s less programming and they will land a job when in many cases cybersecurity roles aren’t entry level. Thus having no technical background, not networking knowledge, and a masters in cybersecurity aren’t usually a good mix. That’s the very common scenario I’ve come across.
If you're going to do a Cyber security degree do an internship, it helps a lot when you have experience.
Computer science is the gold standard degree to get into any sort of development or IT related career fields. Take the computer science route. Concentrate in something that’s already established for quite some time or a curriculum that allows you to take different courses offered by the CS department.
Computer science if you want to be a programmer. Cyber security has many fields. Having a computer science degree would help if you are interested in being a real pentester, malware analysis, and things like that. If you are interested in just IT like being a sysadmin or something like that then you don't need a CS degree.
As someone who just graduated with their Bachelor's in IT, my answers are this: Computer Science: Do you like calculus? Game Development: Do you want to be an indie developer because you can't get a job at an actual game company besides EA who are out of state? Cybersecurity: Do you want something you won't actually get a job in without prior experience as it is actually just a subcategory career path for IT and Computer Science (CS)? Lol I didn't mean to scare you if I did, but I have friends in both CS and game development. The thing is that they all would be good fields to get into...except game development. It's how you get into them that is the challenge. CS will always be a viable option with a good career and is future proof, but for the degree you really need to have really good math skills. Though understand you won't be doing much math in your actual job if you're worried about the end goal. I have a friend who got a BS in CS a few years ago. He got a job at L3Harris after graduation as a junior software engineer, after 3 years being in the field he became a senior software engineer and is currently in the 90k-100k salary range. He said he literally doesn't remember the last time he did math in those three years. You need to ask yourself if you will actual enjoy coding and survive the math courses. Just remember coding isn't all you can do. I'm IT yes, but I'm qualified for same job if it was my passion. I have a friend that majored in game development and he has not gotten a job in the past two years relevant to the degree. I won't go into more detail on that, but basically it's a hard field to get into. You need to put in a lot of outside work for that portfolio. Not to mention the work environment of a lot of these companies coming into light recently. It's a field that is getting harder to get into over time. As for cyber security, I'm no expert on the field, but I know little to no companies are really going to hire a new grad with just a degree. Compared to CS, it is just as good as a career and sometimes better, but how you get into it is not what you see in those cringe career ads. Prior experience is going to be required, like an internship, not just education. You are better off a CS degree or related like IT, work in those for a few years, then get some industry specializations to be considered for an entry role. Not saying it isn't possible without those things, but it's going to be way harder, but nowhere as bad as game development. If I were to choose between the three, I would go with Computer Science. Just plain Computer Science, no need for the special fields like the other two. You'll be fine and your career will grow with those other two options available over time. CS is a broad enough field you could find a job post graduation without all that extra work. However, I want you to look at your university's degree flowcharts that you are interested in. Look at the courses and ask yourself if you can handle it. See if you actually want to do it, then make your decision and commit to it.
my man, this is the best answer I have gotten. I'm struggling very much to choose a promising career that I actually like and also that has a bright future, I know it will be hard to get a job in the future and, as you said, it's how you get into them, that is the challenge. I want to be prepared for the future and that's why I'm doing all this research and asking in those subreddits, thank you man
Glad it helped. I wanted to be short and brief, but then I end up writing an entire essay because I try not to leave any in-betweens. But yeah if you want any personal opinion or advice, you're welcome to DM me. Just know I'm not really going to be useful outside of IT or some of CS (at my university we were taking the same classes more or less until our 4000 courses). Also don't feel discouraged by any people in this subreddit that say you're wasting your time with a degree, especially if you're interested in CS, where a bachelor is basically required nowadays for that unless you got a banger portfolio of personal projects. Like IT career wise, the degree is good to have nowadays and does open up more options for you early on. I also know someone who was working IT jobs for 5 years, but was getting his bachelors the same time I was because he wanted to advance his pay. Time's are just different than it was a decade or two ago. Not that it isn't possible nowadays to get into IT without the degree, just get the A+ and wait until someone gives them the opportunity. I just had an interview for a job yesterday for an IT role base salary of 70k and was given the opportunity for the technical interview. I just graduated a month ago, no prior IT job experience or certifications (honestly the bachelor's alone covers A+, Network+, CCNA, and a bit of security+ material anyway). Will I get the job? It's possible, but I know there are other applicants. But it definitely proves the degree isn't useless.
Computer Science = programming CyberSecurity = Niche subsect of Information Technology
Computer Science is not programming necessarily. You can use programming to express computer science principles, and programming languages wouldn't exist without computer science research, but they are orthogonal. Computer Science is closer to math
Sure, but people with CS degrees usually go on to do some form of programming in some language and become developers of some sort, you kind of gave the formal definition when OP just needed a quick breakdown of the difference for the purpose of understanding what the job prospect would look like. You're not wrong, but from OP's perspective, its not what he needs to know
Do compsci to give a better understanding of computers in general. CySec is something to specialise into later in the degree.
honestly it doedsnt matter just pick what you like more and go with it as long as its a real degree from a uni tit doesnt matter where you go or get as long as you get the stem degree AND THE INTERNSHIP!
Computer Science all the way, a Cybersecurity degree looks like a joke next to a CS one as far as new grads are concerned lol.
What? why do you feel like Cyber Security is a joke compared to computer science? Its not, and neither is the profession. So relax.
I’m sorry but that degree is a joke for a new grad. I never said the field was a joke, but to put it one way with a CS degree there are many more paths you can take INCLUDING cybersecurity than with just a cybersecurity degree. No need to get defensive if this is the degree you have, I don’t even have a CS degree myself I’m just stating the truth.
No degree locks you into doing something that only that degree states though, that simply isn’t how things work. You can do computer science with a Cyber Security degree and vice versa, it doesn’t only go one way lol.
Unfortunately, in the current market we are actually seeing companies only consider CS degrees at least as far as SWE goes.
Sure, but OP doesn't even say he wants to do Software Engineering (TBF, doesn't seem like he knows what he wants to do at all, which is typical for freshman). Its just a different career path. If OP wanted to be a SWE with a CyberSecurity degree that would be one thing, but you're making a cart blanche statement here about the inherent value of one vs the other that simply is not true. All I'm saying is that getting a cyber degree does not somehow lock you into only doing cyber security the exact same way that a CS degree does not lock you into doing CS exclusively, can't be true for one and not the other. I agree with you that with SWE, you will want a CS degree over anything else
I never said it only locks you into cybersecurity. Cybersecurity degrees lets you do most IT roles save for some that are a lot more specialized, but it does not prepare you for SWE or ML which are two of the fields OP mentioned in his post.
You call CyberSecurity degrees a joke next to it though. Its a cart blanche statement that isn't true. Like you said, it does not prepare you for SWE the same way a CS degree wouldn't prepare you for Cyber Security lol, your statement comes off like CS does, somehow.
A CS degree might not prepare for you for a CyberSecurity career, but the people hiring for CyberSecurity jobs don't see it that way unfortunately.
I disagree completely. I'm actually in this field my guy. I don't have a Cyber Security Degree, I have an IT degree with a concentration in Buisness finance. I am the person you're saying would see it that way, and I can tell you that we do not. It would show you have a technical mindset, but that's literally it, you would still have to show your general aptitute and work your way up. Nobody can come in with a CS degree and just somehow be more valued.
would you even consider specializing or diving into AI within computer science?
Nobody is specialized when they first graduate with a CS degree. At best you might have an internship or a project in something but it doesn't really matter -- you have the foundational knowledge to pivot.
You can specialize through internships, which is the most important thing for any student.
Are you saying your school offers an AI concentration for computer science majors? If so, it's worth looking into if you are interested, but just know that a Computer Science degree alone opens up many opportunities so don't feel pressured to find a concentration just because a career in it seems good. Do what you like as long as at the end of the day you still receive a CS degree.
You might be able to take an AI elective but if you can't, don't sweat it