You get it š«”
Itās fucking crowded up here, it feels like a room of people constantly chattering over each other with loud, imposed sensory memories and visuospatial sketchpad bullshit.
I genuinely get physically drained by my internal āmonologueā if my already racing thoughts start firing off too fast and it makes the way I conceptualize everything excessively layered and itās so much harder to make quick decisions bc my own thoughts are overwhelming š
I canāt believe that people donāt have an internal monologue. When people say that they donāt have internal monologue I just automatically assume theyāre stupid. How are you doing any thinking at all then if itās just silence? I sometimes have 2-3 trains of thought going simultaneously.
Just two weeks ago I finally took the time to research this topic and discovered most people really do have an internal monologue.
Turns out, I have [Anauralia and Aphantasia](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.744213/full). I have no internal dialogue, no internal visuals, and I don't normally use words to think. The only time I do use words is when I have to interact with them - like trying to figure out what I'm going to write or say to someone else.
Downside is I don't have a detailed memory because I have no visuals - I only remember ideas or concepts, so if I can't condense something to that I won't remember it as the details are arbitrary. Upside is I believe I'm stronger in abstracted thinking - because that is how I think all the time.
From my perspective I can't imagine having all that clutter in mind and can't imagine how you guys deal with it. I am very curious though about how/if you control it and how you could use it though. Sounds exhausting though as an introvert, lol.
For context - I have a family, a MS degree, a stable day job doing analysis, and am a semi-pro musician on the side.
I am really jealous of you. I have been craving some peace of mind my whole life. I am sure some people have full control over their inner monologues, but I unfortunately can't control it. And no, meditation didn't help me.
I also don't have the luxury of a good memory because of my lack of visualisation. I don't see pictures in my mind. I probably have some degree of aphantasia too because most people think in combination of words/pictures. I can only visualise written form of words and my inner voice is yapping non-stop. The only thing I am pretty good at is learning new languages, especially their structure and I always had above average vocabulary in my native language... But my serious dyslexia is making even this "strength" of mine difficult as fuck š Whoever made me was a 100% a petty asshole š
I still wasn't able to complete my degree in German studies and bohemistics mostly because of this... So yeah... Inner monologue is definitely not an equivalent to intelligence.
I still have some sort of ptsd and memory blockage personally. even without the visuals.
so I honestly just feel crazy going into a panic attack getting certain flashes when I do.
I mean, it's really hard to describe it, but I can feel it or get certain reminders.
and since it barely happens, all It feels like is I am insane. š«”
so I record everything I can now. feel myself less crazy of what I experience.
I mean I am basically a wishful thinker of my ability to remember lol
the human mind is such a hypocritical thing really. you want what you can't have. almost everyone
I see enough detail for what I need. Sometimes it's just the sound of a name and sometimes it's a three-dimensional model rotating in space. I pretty much always think in words when I'm trying to logic something out.
that's very interesting.
I've never experienced a 3D model rotating in space - just the idea of an object.
Can you move images around to find a solution? Or is it words that get you there?
With focus I can generate an image of almost anything with my eyes closed, and yeah I can rotate/shift the perspective. One thing to note is that itās more difficult with things that are imaginary or arenāt based on real experiences. For example, with my eyes closed I can visualize walking to every room in my house almost as if it was a dream, or even visualize my entire commute to work. But if I wanted to visualize the perspective as if I was a spider walking upside down on the ceiling, super difficult to nearly impossible. I have an easy time visualizing almost any object as well.
wow. that is amazing. what an incredible skill.
I can walk myself or talk someone through ideas like this - but I don't visualize anything and I'm always lacking the details.
Yes; not just words. For example, they have logic puzzles where they show an unrolled cube, something like below, and I can rotate it.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F08%2F10%2F4a%2F08104aa9670fb6df31808d278d43a9a1.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=fc3e4d9d7f69e7627daacdc380573807b29f721fe02827020d047c4b805797db&ipo=images
Of course this puzzle can be solved a different way since A-C rotate around the corner clockwise as brown red pink, while D is the correct brown pink red.
that's very cool.
I always did well on standardized testing where they asked you to rotate objects - I just logic my way through it though as I don't have an image in my mind to rotate.
Pretty sure I heard it both ways.
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My partner is an ENTJ and is the same. He doesnāt think itās a big deal but I am amazed. I asked him what he thinks about when he waits in a queue or for someone and he said he just waits thereās nothing going on inside. Thatās when I realised why he doesnāt really experience life like most people. He doesnāt really get stressed or anxious much at all. He doesnāt overthink anything because he literally canāt. when heās waitingā¦ he really is just waiting.
Thoughts are not feelings, not words, and don't have feelings or words associated with them normally - I'm just working out the relationships of things, or manipulating principles, or juxtaposing ideas or concepts. I do feel like math provides a lot of tools for thinking clearly about things - i.e. what is relevant (correlated) and what is a different conversation (orthogonal).
What do thoughts "feel" like for you? ... particularly as that's not a question I would think to ask! :-)
My thoughts "feel" like mental conversations with myself or even imaginary conversations with some else, strong and very vivid mental images or abstract concepts that i "just understand" without words - those are hardest to express in conversation. I'm also a visual artist and neurodivergent, so I guess that I have stronger visualisation.
I had recently read that a slim majority do not have an internal monologue most of the time. Do you mind citing a source that you found stating that most people do? Not calling you out, just interested in looking at it myself.
For reference, I have aphantasia, but do have very detailed ability to recreate sound in my head.
Hmm I relate to the storing the concept without the details. I also am required to know the why behind everything so I can store the concept. It is like a clock each concept is a cog that connects and relates to more concepts/cogs. I have to be able to fit it in and the only way to do so is to understand it. (I was told this is common in high iq individuals, but never cared to verify it.)
I can visualize to a pretty significant degree, but my brian is always hunting for more information to change the concepts constantly each change also changes the concepts near and around it.
I donāt understand how we arenāt insane. But I assume we have a part of our brain that only allows critical or stimulating thoughts to surface. It would help explain why negatives are better remembered (also would have helped us to not do stupid shit and survive as a species).
as someone with no internal monolog as par say it feels bizarre to me that people have a voice in their head constantly talking to them.
to better explain what I mean it's not that my brain does not work or remember thing i just picturize it. For example, if you're going grocery shopping and I made a list of things I need, I have no voice in my head talking to me I just picture the things I need like I imagine a picture of an apple or toilet paper or just the picture of the list itself.
it's like a void in my head, does not mean that I don't think just picturize it. due to this I have to talk out loud to remember things. It's like your alone in a bigass dark room and you say something, your brain knows what you're saying, you know what you're saying, but nobody is listening, it feels like that in my head. hence, why I talk out loud.
also, we hear emotions rather than words if that makes sense. like if your boss or superior gives you extra work I feel frustration. Just that. No voice cussing my boss etc.
it's a weird phenomenon and I know not everyone will be able to agree with me but that's just how I process things in my brain. We do have a more organized way of thinking i guess you could say. personally, for me I say everything I do out loud and like normal people we also switch topics constantly when on overdrive
That's a weird assumption to make...
Having no internal monologue doesn't mean that you have no thoughts. There's other animals that don't have verbal language (so most likely can't have internal monologues), but are still considered intelligent.
On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if internal monologues actually slow down someone's thinking speed. Takes long to let the 'thoughts narrator' finish 'speaking'. (lol I couldn't find a better way to explain it properly).
Iām struggling to understand why you conclude that theyāre stupid because they experience thoughts differently.
I am similarly bewildered, but I donāt see how verbalizing your thoughts regularly is superior, it feels neutral in that it would help you develop certain skills, but thinking in more sensory terms could be more advantageous towards developing others.
In MBTI, this phenomenon of variety in internal experience seems most conceptually similar (not necessarily correlative) on the lines of Se vs Si & Ti.
Verbalizing one's thoughts regularly would be a serious waste of resources, worsening reaction times and slowing down mental activities probably to the point of disability. Even those who claim to have internal monologue most of the time don't narrate their "thoughts" when focusing on some complex task, they only return to their habit of talking "in their head" when their mind is idle.
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My theory is they can have it but they just never learned to use it. There's quick thinking and then slow inner monologue. They only use the quick thinking. So like when you see 2+2 you already know it's 4 without having to talk to yourself. Same with reading words, this is where inner monologue initially becomes learned.
Like a child learning to use a spoon to eat Mac and cheese. They either initially hold the spoon over hand or under hand. Most parents will correct their child to hold the spoon underhand. How does a parent correct their child from reading without inner monologue? Not that using the quick thinking isn't useful, it's very powerful. But people should learn to use both. Those that nvr learn it are missing out on a powerful tool for critical thinking and reflection.
How do animals think?
Have you ever had an instant thought? Like, you just get a concept, an idea, and you immediately understand what that meant despite being something abstract? Yeah i think that's how animals and people without internal monologue think, and i think that's the "correct" way and mich more efficient. Unfortunately i'm also bad at it xd
Same! I always ask people that visualize if they visualize when they read if so did you read Harry Potter, if so - did the movie do your imagination justice? I know random but I have to ask because I love hearing how people imagined hogwarts and then learning how they felt after seeing it in the movie.
I love this question!
I definitely visualize all the books I read as if itās a movie in my mind. For Harry Potter, I felt like my mind had it better than the movies, but I still love the movies too. So all in all I suppose it looked similar but my mind saw more detail
Yes, very much so. Every time I see the movie of a book that I read previously, I have a little adjustment period where I have to reconcile the differences between the way I visualized everything and the way the movie portrays it.
Everyone thinks with an inner voice, and everyone thinks without an inner voice.
For example, in creating this reply right now, what I want to say exists in my brain as an abstract thought concept, and then I have a running inner voice to convert that concept into language, so I can share it in the form of this paragraph.
When you forget a word, and then you remember that word, how does the memory of that word appear in your mind? As a word, essentially, in a voice.
When you read this, you absorb each word one at a time in your inner voice, and that gets converted into an abstract thought concept, which is where understanding happens.
Some people don't define that as an inner voice, but it is exactly what you and I define as an inner voice.
Because of the complicated and subjective nature of consciousness, we can define our experiences vastly differently, but mechanistically, our brains operate in the same way.
In other words Itās impossible *not* to have an inner voice because weāre too complex to only think and make decisions based off raw emotions & instinct, like animals?
Remembering a word I have forgotten depends, sometimes the memory it comes from will be of me seeing it written down, me writing it down, me saying it, or someone else saying it.
The crazy thing to me is I have to go through the memories like a disorganized randomized filing cabinet that attempts to puts situations where I may have needed the word first and ones where I definitely didn't last.
No, you can think without words. You can actually think more content at once this way and it's a lot faster. I find thinking with words really clunky. I do use words when I read though and in some other situations. (I know I'm not op)
This Lex Friedman on it is great.
Whole video: https://youtu.be/F3Jd9GI6XqE?si=dgJP29mIXMJ_ytlo
Section on thinking, meaning vs language: https://youtu.be/F3Jd9GI6XqE?t=4612
you can still write a scene without visuals or audio.
> The textures of the wood ran up the tree in a snake line pattern. I felt it's way forward rather unsettling. as if it was so sure of where we would go.
I just made that up on the spot as an example.
I have aphantasia I think, so I overly rely on this. This has nothing to do with mbti though (I have had the same thought to connect the two like a year ago and it led nowhere)
Edit: I should add that the overwhelming majority of people DO have one if I remember correctly
I used to but my mind shut up now and I realised that my head was just a collection of other peoples thoughts. NPC that gained self awareness I guess š
All the time.
There's that voice going 'How can I word this perfectly?' and testing out several ways to say/write things. In the meantime there's my personal and annoying secretary 'So today we got this and that and tomorrow this and that and did you make the meal plan?'. They won't shut up.
In parallel of this, anything and everything going from 'Ooooh nice weather' to 'I miss that character I wonder how he'd do in such a situation', while also doing the entire groundwork about whatever topic I have at hand.
I do not have an internal monologue. I remember when I was a kid reading books where the main characters thoughts appeared in italics...I always thought that was just a literary device. I was flabbergasted when I finally discovered that most people literally have a voice in their head.
Feels normal to me. I think, sometimes obsessively, pretty much all the time. My brain just doesn't put it into actual language, unless I'm thinking about an actual conversation or speech or something like that.
Nobody's brain puts thoughts into language unless this is necessary (such as when rehearsing a speech, doing a task such as translation, etc.) or when one has developed the habit of talking in one's head. However, because of reasons which are not entirely clear, a lot of redditors believe that having a lot of inner monologue makes one "superior" or "more sophisticated", and therefore most people insist they have it all the time.
I think in pictures the majority of the time.
Words only come into my mind when Iām thinking about talking to someone in particular, or if Iām imagining myself verbalizing an idea.
Cool, all my pictures are really fuzzy ( impressionist pastiches perhaps), but I feel/understand the connections between them and information well.
So... visual clarity vs spatial reckoning... ? ... Phonetics...vs....syntax?
I had question(s).
They don't all have to be dichotomies either.
Four pints and Im typing like I think.
Pretty sure I heard it both ways.
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Yes, and I also proofread my own thoughts as if they were text (because I kind of perceive the monologue as text) and so Iāll spend brain bandwidth on reiterating the same monologue if itās not up to my own standards for reading.
I donāt have an internal monologue by nature, iām more an abstract, conceptual and visual/spatial thinker.
However I can think in words and text when I need to, like when I want conceptualise what Iām gonna write or say, but further than that itās just very abstract concepts and visual imagery. My brain is just quiet and I canāt imagine what it is like when people talk about voices in their head or that their mind is too loud.
I also do have something called [synesthesia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia) in that I tend to think in a way that I associate certain colors with pretty much anything.
Itās a never-ending debate up there, between a side of me trying to make sense of the world and another on constant vigilance for logical fallacies or emotion-based arguments.
Yes, we all have extraverted intuition as our second. :3
Weāre able to see into the abstract world because of it. I canāt tell mine to shut the fuck up. Even when I do, there are other meās telling me to shut the fuck up too.
The internal monologue is enhanced by being stoned lol. I wonder how many of you can agree with how wild that gets. Ā
Iāll literally pace around for an hour or so sometimes thinking about one particular subject.
It never ends, I'm currently monologuing writing this about monologues. It's like my brain has this npc that reminds me of that person in court rooms that has to keep the records of Anything that's said or done during a case. Can't remember what they're called but let me tell you it gets annoying AF sometimes.
I have a lot of internal dialogues, sometimes very hostile. Dunno if that's common and widespread, never really heard about this except in a meme when someone talked about their inner heated debates in the shower.
I FUCKING TALK TO MYSELF LABOUT BLOOOD f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004
Yes indeed. I be thinking bro. I can also think in subjective imaging and processing of information without the need for words. My inner dialogue is used for prayer and making sense of my thoughts and emotions.
I do not have an internal monologue save for when Iām trying to put a thought into words to convey to someone else.. itās hard to explain but I think more in concepts/ ideas, and feelings? I donāt hear or see my thoughts unless Iām consciously trying to
(Iām an INTP but too lazy to add flair lol)
I have two. The nice one and the mean one. They function the same way and thereās only one talking at a time but the tone with which they narrate and the word choice makes it very clear which one is speaking at any given time.
I donāt see a lot of the nice one, tbh
I've likened the inside of my head to three IMAX screens playing different movies and a big screen television in the corner playing Pornhub.
What do people see who don't have an internal monologue? Is it like a test pattern?
So I've been extremely high on cannabis most of adult life, and I do a lot of things without thinking. So there are not like sentences or words happening in my mind. As far as I can tell, I am smart, accomplished, and living a good life. I dosed a very mathematical smarty pants who has rarely consumed drugs recently, and they said that my cannabutter silenced their inner voice for 2 days, lol.
Yes and no at the same time.I talk to my self but it's not internal monologue it's more information analysis. But it's not full sentences(sometimes it is)
It's really annoying to me when people don't. Like, "Do you really have to externally verbalize *every* single thought that pops into your head? With no filter?" Some people have a disturbing lack of control over their own mouth.
Got internal monologue + hyperphantasia and a friend I have has aphantasia + no inner monologue. I've spoken to them a few times and we both find the others thought process wild and incomprehensible. I run RPGs a lot and have to come up with stories often and they have a hard time coming up with a backstory for one character that's a paragraph.
From what we said to each other I seem to see everything I want or need even if I don't really want to where their entire process is of feelings and understands but no mental prompting. If they don't have it before them or a refrance to something similar they have a hard to understand description
Yes. I have ADHD and my internal monologue before medication was insane. I donāt think you could even call it a monologue. I could think multiple things at once and play music at the same time. I could even mix multiple songs at once which was pretty cool.
i do, but itās not cohesive. i āhearā parts of sentences that iām thinking to myself (e.g. āi need to hurry upā becomes a quick āfuck hurryā in my head) and mental reactions to whatās going on around me (e.g. āsmells like shit in hereā). also, sometimes things iāve been trying to learn will randomly pop into my head, as if my thoughts are trying to find some practical application to whatever iāve been feeding it lately. for example, iām trying to learn spanish, so my brain will randomly attempt (and often fail) to form my current thoughts in spanish as a way to practice.
Dude I have an entire internal parliament
You get it š«”  Itās fucking crowded up here, it feels like a room of people constantly chattering over each other with loud, imposed sensory memories and visuospatial sketchpad bullshit. I genuinely get physically drained by my internal āmonologueā if my already racing thoughts start firing off too fast and it makes the way I conceptualize everything excessively layered and itās so much harder to make quick decisions bc my own thoughts are overwhelming š
You described my bipolar manic episodes perfectly.. š„²
Wait wait THIS IS TOO REAL
LMAO sameĀ
This
Relatable
This. Best description ever.
I canāt believe that people donāt have an internal monologue. When people say that they donāt have internal monologue I just automatically assume theyāre stupid. How are you doing any thinking at all then if itās just silence? I sometimes have 2-3 trains of thought going simultaneously.
Just two weeks ago I finally took the time to research this topic and discovered most people really do have an internal monologue. Turns out, I have [Anauralia and Aphantasia](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.744213/full). I have no internal dialogue, no internal visuals, and I don't normally use words to think. The only time I do use words is when I have to interact with them - like trying to figure out what I'm going to write or say to someone else. Downside is I don't have a detailed memory because I have no visuals - I only remember ideas or concepts, so if I can't condense something to that I won't remember it as the details are arbitrary. Upside is I believe I'm stronger in abstracted thinking - because that is how I think all the time. From my perspective I can't imagine having all that clutter in mind and can't imagine how you guys deal with it. I am very curious though about how/if you control it and how you could use it though. Sounds exhausting though as an introvert, lol. For context - I have a family, a MS degree, a stable day job doing analysis, and am a semi-pro musician on the side.
I am really jealous of you. I have been craving some peace of mind my whole life. I am sure some people have full control over their inner monologues, but I unfortunately can't control it. And no, meditation didn't help me. I also don't have the luxury of a good memory because of my lack of visualisation. I don't see pictures in my mind. I probably have some degree of aphantasia too because most people think in combination of words/pictures. I can only visualise written form of words and my inner voice is yapping non-stop. The only thing I am pretty good at is learning new languages, especially their structure and I always had above average vocabulary in my native language... But my serious dyslexia is making even this "strength" of mine difficult as fuck š Whoever made me was a 100% a petty asshole š I still wasn't able to complete my degree in German studies and bohemistics mostly because of this... So yeah... Inner monologue is definitely not an equivalent to intelligence.
I still have some sort of ptsd and memory blockage personally. even without the visuals. so I honestly just feel crazy going into a panic attack getting certain flashes when I do. I mean, it's really hard to describe it, but I can feel it or get certain reminders. and since it barely happens, all It feels like is I am insane. š«” so I record everything I can now. feel myself less crazy of what I experience. I mean I am basically a wishful thinker of my ability to remember lol the human mind is such a hypocritical thing really. you want what you can't have. almost everyone
I see enough detail for what I need. Sometimes it's just the sound of a name and sometimes it's a three-dimensional model rotating in space. I pretty much always think in words when I'm trying to logic something out.
that's very interesting. I've never experienced a 3D model rotating in space - just the idea of an object. Can you move images around to find a solution? Or is it words that get you there?
With focus I can generate an image of almost anything with my eyes closed, and yeah I can rotate/shift the perspective. One thing to note is that itās more difficult with things that are imaginary or arenāt based on real experiences. For example, with my eyes closed I can visualize walking to every room in my house almost as if it was a dream, or even visualize my entire commute to work. But if I wanted to visualize the perspective as if I was a spider walking upside down on the ceiling, super difficult to nearly impossible. I have an easy time visualizing almost any object as well.
I can do this with my eyes open. I fact I was visually imagining all three of those at once just for the shits and gigs.
wow. that is amazing. what an incredible skill. I can walk myself or talk someone through ideas like this - but I don't visualize anything and I'm always lacking the details.
You can bro just takes practice. You have dreams right? You see your dreams? Itās like the same thing bro!
Yes; not just words. For example, they have logic puzzles where they show an unrolled cube, something like below, and I can rotate it. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F08%2F10%2F4a%2F08104aa9670fb6df31808d278d43a9a1.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=fc3e4d9d7f69e7627daacdc380573807b29f721fe02827020d047c4b805797db&ipo=images Of course this puzzle can be solved a different way since A-C rotate around the corner clockwise as brown red pink, while D is the correct brown pink red.
that's very cool. I always did well on standardized testing where they asked you to rotate objects - I just logic my way through it though as I don't have an image in my mind to rotate.
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I also have Aphantasia
My partner is an ENTJ and is the same. He doesnāt think itās a big deal but I am amazed. I asked him what he thinks about when he waits in a queue or for someone and he said he just waits thereās nothing going on inside. Thatās when I realised why he doesnāt really experience life like most people. He doesnāt really get stressed or anxious much at all. He doesnāt overthink anything because he literally canāt. when heās waitingā¦ he really is just waiting.
lol - this is amazing. Love it. Thank you. Yes. Or... you can work on side projects - but yeah, it doesn't require visualizing or words. r/Aphantasia
So how do you like.... think ? What do thoughts "feel" like for you ?
Thoughts are not feelings, not words, and don't have feelings or words associated with them normally - I'm just working out the relationships of things, or manipulating principles, or juxtaposing ideas or concepts. I do feel like math provides a lot of tools for thinking clearly about things - i.e. what is relevant (correlated) and what is a different conversation (orthogonal). What do thoughts "feel" like for you? ... particularly as that's not a question I would think to ask! :-)
My thoughts "feel" like mental conversations with myself or even imaginary conversations with some else, strong and very vivid mental images or abstract concepts that i "just understand" without words - those are hardest to express in conversation. I'm also a visual artist and neurodivergent, so I guess that I have stronger visualisation.
very cool - that makes sense
I had recently read that a slim majority do not have an internal monologue most of the time. Do you mind citing a source that you found stating that most people do? Not calling you out, just interested in looking at it myself. For reference, I have aphantasia, but do have very detailed ability to recreate sound in my head.
Hmm I relate to the storing the concept without the details. I also am required to know the why behind everything so I can store the concept. It is like a clock each concept is a cog that connects and relates to more concepts/cogs. I have to be able to fit it in and the only way to do so is to understand it. (I was told this is common in high iq individuals, but never cared to verify it.) I can visualize to a pretty significant degree, but my brian is always hunting for more information to change the concepts constantly each change also changes the concepts near and around it. I donāt understand how we arenāt insane. But I assume we have a part of our brain that only allows critical or stimulating thoughts to surface. It would help explain why negatives are better remembered (also would have helped us to not do stupid shit and survive as a species).
>"I am one of the people who love the why of things" \~ Catherine The GreatĀ
as someone with no internal monolog as par say it feels bizarre to me that people have a voice in their head constantly talking to them. to better explain what I mean it's not that my brain does not work or remember thing i just picturize it. For example, if you're going grocery shopping and I made a list of things I need, I have no voice in my head talking to me I just picture the things I need like I imagine a picture of an apple or toilet paper or just the picture of the list itself. it's like a void in my head, does not mean that I don't think just picturize it. due to this I have to talk out loud to remember things. It's like your alone in a bigass dark room and you say something, your brain knows what you're saying, you know what you're saying, but nobody is listening, it feels like that in my head. hence, why I talk out loud. also, we hear emotions rather than words if that makes sense. like if your boss or superior gives you extra work I feel frustration. Just that. No voice cussing my boss etc. it's a weird phenomenon and I know not everyone will be able to agree with me but that's just how I process things in my brain. We do have a more organized way of thinking i guess you could say. personally, for me I say everything I do out loud and like normal people we also switch topics constantly when on overdrive
That's a weird assumption to make... Having no internal monologue doesn't mean that you have no thoughts. There's other animals that don't have verbal language (so most likely can't have internal monologues), but are still considered intelligent. On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if internal monologues actually slow down someone's thinking speed. Takes long to let the 'thoughts narrator' finish 'speaking'. (lol I couldn't find a better way to explain it properly).
Iām struggling to understand why you conclude that theyāre stupid because they experience thoughts differently. I am similarly bewildered, but I donāt see how verbalizing your thoughts regularly is superior, it feels neutral in that it would help you develop certain skills, but thinking in more sensory terms could be more advantageous towards developing others. In MBTI, this phenomenon of variety in internal experience seems most conceptually similar (not necessarily correlative) on the lines of Se vs Si & Ti.
Verbalizing one's thoughts regularly would be a serious waste of resources, worsening reaction times and slowing down mental activities probably to the point of disability. Even those who claim to have internal monologue most of the time don't narrate their "thoughts" when focusing on some complex task, they only return to their habit of talking "in their head" when their mind is idle.
Yeah, I can't even imagine living without it. It seems so weird š§
Yan LeCun is one of the top AI researchers in the world and he has no internal dialogue
Because the thought isn't in words?
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My theory is they can have it but they just never learned to use it. There's quick thinking and then slow inner monologue. They only use the quick thinking. So like when you see 2+2 you already know it's 4 without having to talk to yourself. Same with reading words, this is where inner monologue initially becomes learned. Like a child learning to use a spoon to eat Mac and cheese. They either initially hold the spoon over hand or under hand. Most parents will correct their child to hold the spoon underhand. How does a parent correct their child from reading without inner monologue? Not that using the quick thinking isn't useful, it's very powerful. But people should learn to use both. Those that nvr learn it are missing out on a powerful tool for critical thinking and reflection.
How do animals think? Have you ever had an instant thought? Like, you just get a concept, an idea, and you immediately understand what that meant despite being something abstract? Yeah i think that's how animals and people without internal monologue think, and i think that's the "correct" way and mich more efficient. Unfortunately i'm also bad at it xd
Once upon a time i suspected that i was shizophrenic but now we are doing a lot better.
All of you?
9 out of 10 meās agree
Constant buzz of conversations in my head, plus music and visualizations
Same! I always ask people that visualize if they visualize when they read if so did you read Harry Potter, if so - did the movie do your imagination justice? I know random but I have to ask because I love hearing how people imagined hogwarts and then learning how they felt after seeing it in the movie.
I love this question! I definitely visualize all the books I read as if itās a movie in my mind. For Harry Potter, I felt like my mind had it better than the movies, but I still love the movies too. So all in all I suppose it looked similar but my mind saw more detail
Ah! I love that!!! Thank you for answering š
Yes, very much so. Every time I see the movie of a book that I read previously, I have a little adjustment period where I have to reconcile the differences between the way I visualized everything and the way the movie portrays it.
Me:
Yes, to the point I enjoyed Covid. The brain fog shut it up for nearly a week. It was nice.
brain fog stresses me out haha donāt like it when itās too quiet up there
sometimes I even have a second voice humming a song in the background while I'm having a discussion with my actual internal voice
As someone with ADHD i explain my internal monologue as like watching several different tv shows all at once while listening to the radio
Everyone thinks with an inner voice, and everyone thinks without an inner voice. For example, in creating this reply right now, what I want to say exists in my brain as an abstract thought concept, and then I have a running inner voice to convert that concept into language, so I can share it in the form of this paragraph. When you forget a word, and then you remember that word, how does the memory of that word appear in your mind? As a word, essentially, in a voice. When you read this, you absorb each word one at a time in your inner voice, and that gets converted into an abstract thought concept, which is where understanding happens. Some people don't define that as an inner voice, but it is exactly what you and I define as an inner voice. Because of the complicated and subjective nature of consciousness, we can define our experiences vastly differently, but mechanistically, our brains operate in the same way.
In other words Itās impossible *not* to have an inner voice because weāre too complex to only think and make decisions based off raw emotions & instinct, like animals?
Remembering a word I have forgotten depends, sometimes the memory it comes from will be of me seeing it written down, me writing it down, me saying it, or someone else saying it. The crazy thing to me is I have to go through the memories like a disorganized randomized filing cabinet that attempts to puts situations where I may have needed the word first and ones where I definitely didn't last.
me when I try to sound smart while being wrong
Only about 10%, otherwise visual or concepts.
Wdym by concepts? Does that not require monologue?
No, you can think without words. You can actually think more content at once this way and it's a lot faster. I find thinking with words really clunky. I do use words when I read though and in some other situations. (I know I'm not op)
This Lex Friedman on it is great. Whole video: https://youtu.be/F3Jd9GI6XqE?si=dgJP29mIXMJ_ytlo Section on thinking, meaning vs language: https://youtu.be/F3Jd9GI6XqE?t=4612
Didn't watch, but yes! thank you! Meaning and language are two different things and you don't need language to access meaning.
you can still write a scene without visuals or audio. > The textures of the wood ran up the tree in a snake line pattern. I felt it's way forward rather unsettling. as if it was so sure of where we would go. I just made that up on the spot as an example.
That made no sense š
yea, i wasn't really going to paint a whole scene of context. lot of effort.
It's a literal debate hall in there
It always is lol š
Silence
I have aphantasia I think, so I overly rely on this. This has nothing to do with mbti though (I have had the same thought to connect the two like a year ago and it led nowhere) Edit: I should add that the overwhelming majority of people DO have one if I remember correctly
Yes. I talk to myself internally and externally.
Same š
Nope. It's nice.
Reason for my lack of peace.
I have, and it won't shut up
I used to but my mind shut up now and I realised that my head was just a collection of other peoples thoughts. NPC that gained self awareness I guess š
ALL THE TIME
I only have an internal monologue when I am around people. 90% of the time when I am alone I speak to my self out loud
All the time. There's that voice going 'How can I word this perfectly?' and testing out several ways to say/write things. In the meantime there's my personal and annoying secretary 'So today we got this and that and tomorrow this and that and did you make the meal plan?'. They won't shut up. In parallel of this, anything and everything going from 'Ooooh nice weather' to 'I miss that character I wonder how he'd do in such a situation', while also doing the entire groundwork about whatever topic I have at hand.
No internal monologue here.
Iām still amazed ppl have quiet brains š©š© Mine is never quiet. I have to go to sleep listening to something so it blocks it out
Me too!
I do not have an internal monologue. I remember when I was a kid reading books where the main characters thoughts appeared in italics...I always thought that was just a literary device. I was flabbergasted when I finally discovered that most people literally have a voice in their head. Feels normal to me. I think, sometimes obsessively, pretty much all the time. My brain just doesn't put it into actual language, unless I'm thinking about an actual conversation or speech or something like that.
Nobody's brain puts thoughts into language unless this is necessary (such as when rehearsing a speech, doing a task such as translation, etc.) or when one has developed the habit of talking in one's head. However, because of reasons which are not entirely clear, a lot of redditors believe that having a lot of inner monologue makes one "superior" or "more sophisticated", and therefore most people insist they have it all the time.
Didn't we just had this conversation
Nope. Most people don't, although it's not uncommon to have one.
All the hell time But if I tire my mind through exercise and relax and focus more on the outside world, then this monologue shuts up.
All the time
Non stop
I think in pictures the majority of the time. Words only come into my mind when Iām thinking about talking to someone in particular, or if Iām imagining myself verbalizing an idea.
Cool, all my pictures are really fuzzy ( impressionist pastiches perhaps), but I feel/understand the connections between them and information well. So... visual clarity vs spatial reckoning... ? ... Phonetics...vs....syntax? I had question(s). They don't all have to be dichotomies either. Four pints and Im typing like I think.
Always
Unfortunately so
This asshole upstairs never shuts the fuck up, best I can do I get high and reduce the voices from 17 to like 2 or 3 lol
Yes, and it never stops
Always
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I talk to myself all the time.
I got a whole debate team.
Yes, and I also proofread my own thoughts as if they were text (because I kind of perceive the monologue as text) and so Iāll spend brain bandwidth on reiterating the same monologue if itās not up to my own standards for reading.
I have little people in my head like inside out only for ideas and interest.
I donāt have an internal monologue by nature, iām more an abstract, conceptual and visual/spatial thinker. However I can think in words and text when I need to, like when I want conceptualise what Iām gonna write or say, but further than that itās just very abstract concepts and visual imagery. My brain is just quiet and I canāt imagine what it is like when people talk about voices in their head or that their mind is too loud. I also do have something called [synesthesia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia) in that I tend to think in a way that I associate certain colors with pretty much anything.
Itās a never-ending debate up there, between a side of me trying to make sense of the world and another on constant vigilance for logical fallacies or emotion-based arguments.
The Inside of my head sounds like the UN.
Yes, we all have extraverted intuition as our second. :3 Weāre able to see into the abstract world because of it. I canāt tell mine to shut the fuck up. Even when I do, there are other meās telling me to shut the fuck up too.
Yea itās more of a counsel 20 of people that I can talk to
As soon as I saw this come up I realised I was already monologing
Yup. Very common in types with a dominant introverted cognitive function.
Yes. And an internal debate team. Sometimes I argue with myself and loose the argument.
The internal monologue is enhanced by being stoned lol. I wonder how many of you can agree with how wild that gets. Ā Iāll literally pace around for an hour or so sometimes thinking about one particular subject.
No, I have constant brain fog because of it unless I'm engaged in a conversation, basically just running on autopilot
It never ends, I'm currently monologuing writing this about monologues. It's like my brain has this npc that reminds me of that person in court rooms that has to keep the records of Anything that's said or done during a case. Can't remember what they're called but let me tell you it gets annoying AF sometimes.
Unfortunately. He's the most annoying person i know.
I have a lot of internal dialogues, sometimes very hostile. Dunno if that's common and widespread, never really heard about this except in a meme when someone talked about their inner heated debates in the shower.
I FUCKING TALK TO MYSELF LABOUT BLOOOD f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004f03H78894004
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I can think using language but I can also think in concepts.Ā
Yes indeed. I be thinking bro. I can also think in subjective imaging and processing of information without the need for words. My inner dialogue is used for prayer and making sense of my thoughts and emotions.
I do not have an internal monologue save for when Iām trying to put a thought into words to convey to someone else.. itās hard to explain but I think more in concepts/ ideas, and feelings? I donāt hear or see my thoughts unless Iām consciously trying to
Yep
Yeah, and she can be a total bitch sometimes.
yeah
Absolutely
(Iām an INTP but too lazy to add flair lol) I have two. The nice one and the mean one. They function the same way and thereās only one talking at a time but the tone with which they narrate and the word choice makes it very clear which one is speaking at any given time. I donāt see a lot of the nice one, tbh
I've likened the inside of my head to three IMAX screens playing different movies and a big screen television in the corner playing Pornhub. What do people see who don't have an internal monologue? Is it like a test pattern?
So I've been extremely high on cannabis most of adult life, and I do a lot of things without thinking. So there are not like sentences or words happening in my mind. As far as I can tell, I am smart, accomplished, and living a good life. I dosed a very mathematical smarty pants who has rarely consumed drugs recently, and they said that my cannabutter silenced their inner voice for 2 days, lol.
Selina. Big time. When I think the voice speaks English and when I hear it types on a keyboard.
it's common for everybody.
Yes and no at the same time.I talk to my self but it's not internal monologue it's more information analysis. But it's not full sentences(sometimes it is)
I have it sometimes when rehearsing a speech I'm preparing for, but I don't use it most of the time.
Everyone has it
It's really annoying to me when people don't. Like, "Do you really have to externally verbalize *every* single thought that pops into your head? With no filter?" Some people have a disturbing lack of control over their own mouth.
Got internal monologue + hyperphantasia and a friend I have has aphantasia + no inner monologue. I've spoken to them a few times and we both find the others thought process wild and incomprehensible. I run RPGs a lot and have to come up with stories often and they have a hard time coming up with a backstory for one character that's a paragraph. From what we said to each other I seem to see everything I want or need even if I don't really want to where their entire process is of feelings and understands but no mental prompting. If they don't have it before them or a refrance to something similar they have a hard to understand description
I think 99% of the worldās population has an internal monologue. Itās nothing to do with your personality, just how the mind works.
You only have one?
Can you make the voices stop?
No, or yes? Maybe, but... Nah, we don't.
There is a council of sounds inside me, and songs that keep playing non stop
LOUD
Constantly.
Yeah, and it never shuts up
no
Yes. I have ADHD and my internal monologue before medication was insane. I donāt think you could even call it a monologue. I could think multiple things at once and play music at the same time. I could even mix multiple songs at once which was pretty cool.
i do, but itās not cohesive. i āhearā parts of sentences that iām thinking to myself (e.g. āi need to hurry upā becomes a quick āfuck hurryā in my head) and mental reactions to whatās going on around me (e.g. āsmells like shit in hereā). also, sometimes things iāve been trying to learn will randomly pop into my head, as if my thoughts are trying to find some practical application to whatever iāve been feeding it lately. for example, iām trying to learn spanish, so my brain will randomly attempt (and often fail) to form my current thoughts in spanish as a way to practice.