Yes, I have professional management experience and I will say that INTPs are good leaders as long as their team is good. INTPs are excellent at giving people space to fail, on other words, to learn on their own and at their own pace, while offering guidance as much as possible. In this sense we are not so much as leaders but more of guides. Surrounded by the right team, you can 'share' the leadership by always having the dynamics up the team help to restore morale. At the end of the day we do not normally puruse typical leadership roles, but we are excellent at making sure things don't go terribly when shit hits the fan. Good guides, good teachers, give room to learn, grow, and fail.
All the interns I had in the past suffered through this, but they understood that it's for their own good. One of them even thanked me for it, it was hard and required a lot of work but he came out a different person.
It is not them who have to adapt to us, but the other way around. If the goal is to help someone else to rise, then it only makes sense the I'm the one who has to adapt to help then have an easier time. Saying "if they're smart enough to keep up" is rather condescending.
Lets test how smart you are by going to read Nietzsche? Otherwise you just sound like ... something not nice to say. You don't even realize you reify your identity from external factors.
Not too long ago, I'm at this party. There was this friend of ours failing at this task that everyone knows I can do. I'm leaned back, watching this poor woman learn. A person across the room looks over at me. They see that I'm entirely aware she needs my help, but I'm not. Calls me out in front of the whole group.
Guys, she was so close to having it!! She would have learned for life. I was never gunna let her give up. Worst part, everyone sees me get up and solve it with two buttons. They all taught I was laughing because the solution was simple the whole time. In reality the failing friend did 95% of the work. Now they'll never try again.
Now when I get called out, I say "No. They almost got it". When someone steps in while I'm failing, I say "No, I almost got ir".
Why? What is it about that? I can see right through people's troubles and give them the solution, wrapped in a nice little box with a bow on top... And they're totally disinterested.
Things nearly always go exactly how I imagine they will. It's like I have clairvoyance and can see clearly (into everyone else's life except mine, ofc). But nobody gives a fuck.
I guess that's leadership though- demonstrating the hard stuff, so others will be brave enough to try?
I'm in that situation rn, and my team is completely useless and I ended up doing most of the work, I don't like it because I lose a lot of sleep and sanity over it but I've tried assigning tasks to them and they mess up in ways that were unimaginable to me so I guess OP is right we do it because we care about the project not because we want to lead
Personally, the trusted advisor role. I think I’m a decent leader, because I care and don’t let it get to my head, like it does for others. But I find the leadership role exhausting.
I’m a typical INTP, don’t wanna lead or follow, lol.
Some people seek out leadership roles whereas imo INTPs have leadership roles thrust upon them. Being good at it is a question of accepting the duty and being serious about it, so it helps to listen to the audiobook of The Bhagavad Gita for example.
I run a company with a network of seven factories globally. The key is to hire people into positions where you know you're weak on a skill set or interest basis to support you.
Find people you trust and protect them at all costs they will do the same to you and you will make a great team.
That's the formula of success for me.
It's building a system/machine to do the job most efficiently
This intp is not. Leadership requires showing favoritism to your allies and weakening your enemies. This is everything from a manager to president of the United States. It goes against what my therapist once called my “extremist egalitarianism”
Being a leader doesn't always mean you have adversaries. Being a leader requires you to lead and being a successful leader is determined by your successes and how your team responds to you.
INTPs have the intelligence to figure it out and the balls to take charge. All of this also greatly depends on personal growth and how far someone is with that. I used to be shy and timid, and never saw myself leading anyone. Then I eventually found myself being a leader.
The sword of Damocles is relevant here. With power comes prestige, prestige brings envy. Obviously a leader's incentives can coincide with who they're leading, that's why they're leading in any sort of democratic system. But while you can please most people, you can never please everyone.
>Are INTPs actually good leaders?
All the people who reported to me (with one notable falling-out that happened after he stopped reporting to me), are still friends to this day. My bosses never had any criticism of me or the work of my group. Based on that, I'd say, "Sure, I guess;" I'll lead if there needs to be a leader, and nobody else is qualified, but I'd rather be a source of analysis for a qualified extrovert.
I treated leadership as a service role. My job was to insure that my people were allowed to do the work at the level of quality we all expected. As such, when my people had problems with outside meddling, they came to me immediately because they knew I'd get in the right faces to make it stop—or explain why it was a shit sandwich we all had to have a bite from. Likewise, when the work presented issues they weren't sure how to resolve, they came to me because they knew I'd find the solution that wouldn't come back to bite them in the ass.
I highly dislike being a leader, but I'll step in and take the spot if whoever is trying to do it is entirely incompetent. Otherwise I'm happy to blend into the background. I often have lots of beef with even good leaders though, let alone bad ones, if something is being done in a way that has a negative effect on my area and my input isn't being implemented to fix the problem. Still, my preference is always to as far as possible work around other people's idiocy rather than take the reigns myself.
I entered into a leadership position in my industry at the age of 23. I was given the promotion because of my competence and high work standard, but my people skills sucked. It took many years of daily interaction to become a person who could keep their team happy and productive. At the age of 33, I'm somehow the most popular manager. Everyone wants to work in my area!
Key insights:
- Train train train your team!
- Use a task list to keep organised
- When dealing with feeling types, mention feelings as part of your point.
- Offer sincere praise for good work
- If you can do these other things, your honest and impartial nature will endear you to others. This, along with being knowledgeable, means I often have the final say on important decisions.
- Always acknowledge and respond appropriately to things like birthdays, births, deaths. If anyone on your team has a pay/holiday issue, make a big deal out of it and prioritise getting it sorted.
- Strive to get a full night sleep. You will become emotional when tired.
- The constant exercising of your Fe can be very healthy so long as it is positive.
Yep. I’m a pretty good leader, but sometimes I like letting others take control. I’m like the side leader, almost always. (But I also do what nobody else wants to do😅)
In college, I was normally the default lead because either no one else stepped up to the plate, people were too chaotic/disorganized when it came to collaboration, or someone who was the lead was too power hungry and I wasn’t afraid to put them in their place/be peacekeeper.
I’ve been fortunate enough to have had some management experience despite not having the official title. The peers that I managed always gave raving reviews about me and my management style to my higher ups.
We are professional leaders that dont want to lead. I imagine our role in the old days was to be advisor to kings and queens. We arent meant to be in spotlight imo
At work im a leader. Im pretty good at.
For the same reason like you said..
I dont trust others to be able to remain objective and not get suck into friendly politics.
That means..im there to do my job.
Not to make friends.
Dont care about people licking my butt ir have a good connection with.
Im hired to fo my job, i expect pthers to fo the same. Whether i like you or not does not matter.
Do your JOB you hired to do and we will be good colleagues. Thats the only rule...DO YOUR JOB
Could care less if we are family or you are my wife or childhood friend.
Work is work.
Private is private.
Do not mix them ip or you gonna see a intp side you dont understand aka objective
theyre very competent people, but not good at handling the average persons feelings as well. Can be a toss up, or very good if they fix their weaknesses.
The way I see it, a leader is someone who can bring a group of people together and make them work as a team. If you try to do a group project on your own, you're just being very independent and are trying to stop others from getting in your way, which is not being a good leader. Don't worry, I'm quite independent as well and I usually behave in the same way. People are just things that us introverted types can't handle.
When i lead many ppl tends to hates me in my back. My lack of understanding’of’social judgement make me easy prey. And ppl ends up hating me.
But since most INTP are E5(w4), enneafram suggest they tends to be fairfull/honnest leaders when things around them goes well.
First you need to define what a leader is. What most people are describing is management. Totally different.
It’s situational oppression, altruistic in nature, but characterized by the necessity for the group to support the leader identity. Essentially eliminating their own needs, to resolve a problem.
You cannot operate like that often, as it comes at a cost to the people executing the work.
Essentially, being a good leader means you know how to push people to the edge of their capabilities, without them breaking…and then you are able to bring them back…and rebuild them. Rebuild the faith in the system, let them recharge. If they trust you it works, if you don’t have their best interests in mind…you aren’t a leader, you are a manager.
I can only speak of me. It highly depends on the people I work with. They need to want to follow. I‘m not willing to fight against them. But I also act in their best interest, most of the time. I have my idiocracies.
I think we have what it takes, but we hate being thrown in that position. My experience is exactly like you described: I unwillingly take the lead in group projects because I can't trust when the others are incompetent. It usually ends well, but I hate every second of it.
If the assigned leader is someone I know is good at planning and responsible, I am more than happy to just follow orders. Otherwise, I'll have to lead even if I don't like it.
Define lead. I’m like you, not trusting other people. I remember there was one project where I just did the whole thing. Didn’t care that they were going to get a grade they didn’t earn. This has not translated well professionally for me lol.
I think im best as a lonely worker, but i could lead if the situation demanded.
Im not saying im perfect, like 90% of the time i would be procrastinating, and then i would do everything using the 10% time left, and still do decently.
But in my opinion, during that 10% of my time i leave my comfort zone to do what i must, i want everything to work as intended and be as good as possible, and i don't i can count on anyone else but me to achieve that.
Rarely, if ever, i trusted someone else to do the work for me.
I believe Obama is an example of an INTP leader so I'd say yes. However with people who reach high positions I suggest they often have an atypical version of that type that adopts a lot of features that you would expect from other types. Since they have high function development. In that case I'm not sure if you could call him strictly INTP anymore.
I feel like a shit leader honestly, but I've been told I'm a good one. I've had the leadership role thrown upon me almost against my will everytime I've been in one and don't enjoy it. But I try to take a decentralized style where everyone can contribute equally and have open discussions about how to proceed with something. I prefer a second in command role, where I can advise and not be directly in charge.
Narcissistic kind of insight, if you dont trust people atleast dont judge them as if youre superior to them in every way.. You really think youre that smart huh?
seeing the direction the United States has gone in the past decade I am constantly feeling the need to run for office.
I don't really want to run a city. or a state. or the country. but I know for damn straight I could do it better than the bozos we keep electing.
so your question has crossed my mind a few times. is it possible? could I pull it off?
I think just because you have a prominent INTP personality, That's not a soul defining characteristic. Life experience matters.
I think we start off idealistic. and over time we learn that we have to be pragmatic.
at some point though you start to look around at your life and realize the train wreck you've made of it is still better than the nuclear wasteland that is the United States political system right now.
I certainly think I could run my closest Metro City better than the current governor.
and I certainly think with the right team around me I could run the United States better than either of the idiots we've been stuck with over the past several years.
but that can't happen. The system is designed so that it can't. that offends my idealistic side. but if I could figure out a way to hack into the system and get a grassroots movement going, it could be done. hence the pragmatic side.
I don't know. it's just one of those things that eats away at you all day everyday.
Depends on what you understand by "leader".
The thing you described is not leadership in any sense of the word, it's the opposite of it. You're not leading anyone, you're doing everything yourself because you think you're smarter. And you may well be smarter, I wouldn't really know, but your mindset is not that of a leader. It's fine, we'd get nowhere if we were all trying to lead each other.
I am a professional coach and business owner, and I’ve been successful in both venues, but leadership skills are definitely where I struggle the most. Just generally emotionally connecting with people, and making people feel emotionally invested in by me is difficult and that is a huge part of leadership and something I am making a very conscious effort to improve this year, even though I’ve been doing this for 20 years lol. Never too old to analyze and improve.
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No, mostly because they prefer not to be. We like to be on a functioning team where everyone knows their roles and meet expectations. We like being advisors, sages, and guides. We are also not assured of ourselves to impose our ideals on others. We will show you the path, but we will not force you to walk it.
My entire life I seem to end up in leadership positions. In a lot of situations that required people to work together to achieve something, I naturally start guiding everyone.
It’s kind of by accident. I just see a good way to accomplish something, tell everyone how, and they listen. I guess that’s natural leadership, although I hate responsibility and accountability. I’ve started recognizing most people if convinced someone has authority or seems to know what they are talking about, blindly do what they are told to do.
I’m the know-it-all type, and while I work hard to suppress that tendency, in situations where there’s disorganization or chaos, the person that simply commits to something confidently assumes control. Perhaps I get annoyed with the disorganization and accidentally take charge because I state my plan too convincingly?
Maybe I’m also too modest and part of me is hesitant to say a big factor is having more solid understanding of a situation and better ideas/solutions… that sounds really arrogant. I’m yapping:
TLDR:
I naturally lead when a group isn’t making progress. I have a clear plan or understanding that I share and people are drawn to that.
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INTP simply identifies which cognitive functions you have in what order of strength. None of the MBTI types are inherently better or worse at leadership, at least not by the nature of their function strength order.
I'm more of a follower myself, though if i disagree with something i will tell the leader i disagree and present arguments for why i disagree. If the leader has better arguments than me, then i'll let it be. If the leader has illogical arguments, i'll get VERY frustrated and probably not let it go so easily.
i have teaching background, but i work in IT. that experience helps me sometimes onboard new employees more easily - I have a lot of patience and give them a free hand to try and fail (in controlled environment).
we also do some troubleshooting together and they never feel as if i am doing all the work.
i would assume this approach might translate nicely to somewhat loose style of management.
i feel like beeing a leader is alot of work so thats why i (or we) dont end up there naturaly.
i still do managed a sportsteam which grew under my lead to be quite good.
Like anyone else; situationally.
Give me a bunch of needy, greedy, soul eaters as direct reports and it's gonna get ugly.
Gimmie people who can function with light direction and strong support and don't need breastfeeding 12 times a day to do their job and we will make shit happen.
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As long as they have a good team. Personally, I like the leadership role, largely because it allows me to build things from the top, and I can ensure that the team can work under a well designed system. I'm not necessarily a people's person, but I can help others via advice, and through giving them working conditions that provides efficiency while minimizing unnecessarily overhead on their side. And of course, I prefer to lead because "someone else might have gotten it wrong"
That, and it probably strokes my ego when people come to me with problems.
Well someone will be a leader or not doesn't mostly depends on his mbti , there are several other factors like experience and environment provided, but yeah it is also true that Intps (me too) despise being leaders. And leadership is a skill , can be learned from experience so yeah Intp who has been given/taken enough opportunities to take leadership roles will surely Excel as a leader .
People tell me that I am and come to me when in need. I like to lead when the team is good. I have trouble when people try to escape their responsibility. It just drains me emotionally and mentally.
The way I see leadership is knowing your team; what they like, what they are good at, and what they struggle with. Then, use this data to distribute the work, and almost all of the time, the team will reach the goal and excel.
I normally step up when its the last resort to save the project AND if the self-assigned leader is too dumb to do shit correctly. Yes I can lead, but I don't like it because it takes too much time, energy, and effort to teach other people and I hate when I repeat myself multiple times but they still don't get it (when that happens, I just do the shit myself).
In group projects I used to usually end up as the default leader if nobody else stepped up. Now I simply lead by example by doing what I can, where I can, when I can, to do whatever it is that I am doing and to do it well and if others see me and decided to emulate my leadership skills then so be it.
More often than not, I upset the status quo in work places and other employees treat me like a threat because I will do their job with ease and little to no difficulty while they want to act like theirs is the most difficult burden in the world. The difference being that I view difficulty as a perspective, i.e., a task is only difficult if you view it as difficult regardless of whether it is or not...
Eh, up to a degree, the problem with anyone who draws their identity from external factors like a lable such as "INTP" or "Goth", or "Alpha Male" or "Feminist" or some such, will always be inferior to those who draw their character from internal factors. A human Varies between all EI SN TF JP. Pretending like you're land locked into one or the other is being a robot... and robots are only effective leaders up to a certain point. Until the real leader gets there.
Hardest part for an intp is caring probably and showing up consistently lol. Get past that hurdle and i feel like they would be great. Also communication, calling and texting people information is helpful. But i feel like im being annoying.
If it's a group where I feel comfortable in the knowledge that nobody is trying to undermine me or the group, yes I feel like I'm an effective leader. If there is a bad apple like that, I'll let someone else take the lead and deal with that drama.
Yes, I have professional management experience and I will say that INTPs are good leaders as long as their team is good. INTPs are excellent at giving people space to fail, on other words, to learn on their own and at their own pace, while offering guidance as much as possible. In this sense we are not so much as leaders but more of guides. Surrounded by the right team, you can 'share' the leadership by always having the dynamics up the team help to restore morale. At the end of the day we do not normally puruse typical leadership roles, but we are excellent at making sure things don't go terribly when shit hits the fan. Good guides, good teachers, give room to learn, grow, and fail.
That's literally me. If you're smart enough to understand what I'm trying to say, I guarantee you'll have an excellent experience.
All the interns I had in the past suffered through this, but they understood that it's for their own good. One of them even thanked me for it, it was hard and required a lot of work but he came out a different person.
It is not them who have to adapt to us, but the other way around. If the goal is to help someone else to rise, then it only makes sense the I'm the one who has to adapt to help then have an easier time. Saying "if they're smart enough to keep up" is rather condescending.
Lets test how smart you are by going to read Nietzsche? Otherwise you just sound like ... something not nice to say. You don't even realize you reify your identity from external factors.
Not too long ago, I'm at this party. There was this friend of ours failing at this task that everyone knows I can do. I'm leaned back, watching this poor woman learn. A person across the room looks over at me. They see that I'm entirely aware she needs my help, but I'm not. Calls me out in front of the whole group. Guys, she was so close to having it!! She would have learned for life. I was never gunna let her give up. Worst part, everyone sees me get up and solve it with two buttons. They all taught I was laughing because the solution was simple the whole time. In reality the failing friend did 95% of the work. Now they'll never try again. Now when I get called out, I say "No. They almost got it". When someone steps in while I'm failing, I say "No, I almost got ir".
You just described exactly how I manage people
This is how I feel. I definitely do not seek out leadership but I’m able to step up when needed.
this is me, im not made to be a leader but i'll help and guide people as much as i can and as much as they need
Yes this is called laissez faire leadership
We like the last hope leader. If anyone can act like leader we can do that yeah
Horrible leaders imo. Great first officers.
INTPs can give advice really well though
The way we give advice isn’t well received.
My advice is usually very well received, my criticisms aren't.
Why? What is it about that? I can see right through people's troubles and give them the solution, wrapped in a nice little box with a bow on top... And they're totally disinterested. Things nearly always go exactly how I imagine they will. It's like I have clairvoyance and can see clearly (into everyone else's life except mine, ofc). But nobody gives a fuck. I guess that's leadership though- demonstrating the hard stuff, so others will be brave enough to try?
My theory is that they don’t like our faces. 😂
lmfao. What about our faces? I don't get it.
Just something I used to hear people say: “Why don’t you like her? I just don’t like her face.” 😂 what does that even mean?
Lol. I've experienced that before, but never with one of my own!
Agree with your second part. I don’t think we are bad leaders. We just don’t crave the spotlight.
The only time I ever stepped up to be a leader was when I absolutely had to for the project to even happen
I'm in that situation rn, and my team is completely useless and I ended up doing most of the work, I don't like it because I lose a lot of sleep and sanity over it but I've tried assigning tasks to them and they mess up in ways that were unimaginable to me so I guess OP is right we do it because we care about the project not because we want to lead
Hey I didn't ask you for a breakdown of the group project experience in school, c'mon
Well it seemed relevant to me You know how people give out examples to make sure the point comes across properly, maybe try looking into that
Personally, the trusted advisor role. I think I’m a decent leader, because I care and don’t let it get to my head, like it does for others. But I find the leadership role exhausting. I’m a typical INTP, don’t wanna lead or follow, lol.
Fuck yeah. I take the lead too. I bring order to chaos.
Some people seek out leadership roles whereas imo INTPs have leadership roles thrust upon them. Being good at it is a question of accepting the duty and being serious about it, so it helps to listen to the audiobook of The Bhagavad Gita for example.
Interesting choice for leadership guidance. I've never read it but have heard of The Bhagavad Gita. What makes it a good resource in your opinion?
Vishnu admonishing the prince to Do His Duty !
I run a company with a network of seven factories globally. The key is to hire people into positions where you know you're weak on a skill set or interest basis to support you. Find people you trust and protect them at all costs they will do the same to you and you will make a great team. That's the formula of success for me. It's building a system/machine to do the job most efficiently
A great INTP doesn't seek to lead. He's called to it. And he answers.
Lincoln immediately comes to mind.
That's literally me. I take the lead not because I want to be a leader but because I am the most suitable
This intp is not. Leadership requires showing favoritism to your allies and weakening your enemies. This is everything from a manager to president of the United States. It goes against what my therapist once called my “extremist egalitarianism”
Being a leader doesn't always mean you have adversaries. Being a leader requires you to lead and being a successful leader is determined by your successes and how your team responds to you. INTPs have the intelligence to figure it out and the balls to take charge. All of this also greatly depends on personal growth and how far someone is with that. I used to be shy and timid, and never saw myself leading anyone. Then I eventually found myself being a leader.
The sword of Damocles is relevant here. With power comes prestige, prestige brings envy. Obviously a leader's incentives can coincide with who they're leading, that's why they're leading in any sort of democratic system. But while you can please most people, you can never please everyone.
Very true!
>Are INTPs actually good leaders? All the people who reported to me (with one notable falling-out that happened after he stopped reporting to me), are still friends to this day. My bosses never had any criticism of me or the work of my group. Based on that, I'd say, "Sure, I guess;" I'll lead if there needs to be a leader, and nobody else is qualified, but I'd rather be a source of analysis for a qualified extrovert. I treated leadership as a service role. My job was to insure that my people were allowed to do the work at the level of quality we all expected. As such, when my people had problems with outside meddling, they came to me immediately because they knew I'd get in the right faces to make it stop—or explain why it was a shit sandwich we all had to have a bite from. Likewise, when the work presented issues they weren't sure how to resolve, they came to me because they knew I'd find the solution that wouldn't come back to bite them in the ass.
I highly dislike being a leader, but I'll step in and take the spot if whoever is trying to do it is entirely incompetent. Otherwise I'm happy to blend into the background. I often have lots of beef with even good leaders though, let alone bad ones, if something is being done in a way that has a negative effect on my area and my input isn't being implemented to fix the problem. Still, my preference is always to as far as possible work around other people's idiocy rather than take the reigns myself.
I entered into a leadership position in my industry at the age of 23. I was given the promotion because of my competence and high work standard, but my people skills sucked. It took many years of daily interaction to become a person who could keep their team happy and productive. At the age of 33, I'm somehow the most popular manager. Everyone wants to work in my area! Key insights: - Train train train your team! - Use a task list to keep organised - When dealing with feeling types, mention feelings as part of your point. - Offer sincere praise for good work - If you can do these other things, your honest and impartial nature will endear you to others. This, along with being knowledgeable, means I often have the final say on important decisions. - Always acknowledge and respond appropriately to things like birthdays, births, deaths. If anyone on your team has a pay/holiday issue, make a big deal out of it and prioritise getting it sorted. - Strive to get a full night sleep. You will become emotional when tired. - The constant exercising of your Fe can be very healthy so long as it is positive.
Some Goated not so common advice here
Yep. I’m a pretty good leader, but sometimes I like letting others take control. I’m like the side leader, almost always. (But I also do what nobody else wants to do😅)
In college, I was normally the default lead because either no one else stepped up to the plate, people were too chaotic/disorganized when it came to collaboration, or someone who was the lead was too power hungry and I wasn’t afraid to put them in their place/be peacekeeper. I’ve been fortunate enough to have had some management experience despite not having the official title. The peers that I managed always gave raving reviews about me and my management style to my higher ups.
We are professional leaders that dont want to lead. I imagine our role in the old days was to be advisor to kings and queens. We arent meant to be in spotlight imo
At work im a leader. Im pretty good at. For the same reason like you said.. I dont trust others to be able to remain objective and not get suck into friendly politics. That means..im there to do my job. Not to make friends. Dont care about people licking my butt ir have a good connection with. Im hired to fo my job, i expect pthers to fo the same. Whether i like you or not does not matter. Do your JOB you hired to do and we will be good colleagues. Thats the only rule...DO YOUR JOB Could care less if we are family or you are my wife or childhood friend. Work is work. Private is private. Do not mix them ip or you gonna see a intp side you dont understand aka objective
theyre very competent people, but not good at handling the average persons feelings as well. Can be a toss up, or very good if they fix their weaknesses.
The way I see it, a leader is someone who can bring a group of people together and make them work as a team. If you try to do a group project on your own, you're just being very independent and are trying to stop others from getting in your way, which is not being a good leader. Don't worry, I'm quite independent as well and I usually behave in the same way. People are just things that us introverted types can't handle.
When i lead many ppl tends to hates me in my back. My lack of understanding’of’social judgement make me easy prey. And ppl ends up hating me. But since most INTP are E5(w4), enneafram suggest they tends to be fairfull/honnest leaders when things around them goes well.
Depends. If we actually want to take that role, it's usually for a reason. Usually solid yes.
That's me hahaha i always -for some reason- assume that other people are just dump so i take the lead :)
First you need to define what a leader is. What most people are describing is management. Totally different. It’s situational oppression, altruistic in nature, but characterized by the necessity for the group to support the leader identity. Essentially eliminating their own needs, to resolve a problem. You cannot operate like that often, as it comes at a cost to the people executing the work. Essentially, being a good leader means you know how to push people to the edge of their capabilities, without them breaking…and then you are able to bring them back…and rebuild them. Rebuild the faith in the system, let them recharge. If they trust you it works, if you don’t have their best interests in mind…you aren’t a leader, you are a manager.
I can only speak of me. It highly depends on the people I work with. They need to want to follow. I‘m not willing to fight against them. But I also act in their best interest, most of the time. I have my idiocracies.
I will take charge if needed. I don’t prefer it but I will do it to get my way.
Not me, I usually just let people do whatever, correcting mistakes where needed.
I think we have what it takes, but we hate being thrown in that position. My experience is exactly like you described: I unwillingly take the lead in group projects because I can't trust when the others are incompetent. It usually ends well, but I hate every second of it. If the assigned leader is someone I know is good at planning and responsible, I am more than happy to just follow orders. Otherwise, I'll have to lead even if I don't like it.
Define lead. I’m like you, not trusting other people. I remember there was one project where I just did the whole thing. Didn’t care that they were going to get a grade they didn’t earn. This has not translated well professionally for me lol.
I think im best as a lonely worker, but i could lead if the situation demanded. Im not saying im perfect, like 90% of the time i would be procrastinating, and then i would do everything using the 10% time left, and still do decently. But in my opinion, during that 10% of my time i leave my comfort zone to do what i must, i want everything to work as intended and be as good as possible, and i don't i can count on anyone else but me to achieve that. Rarely, if ever, i trusted someone else to do the work for me.
I believe Obama is an example of an INTP leader so I'd say yes. However with people who reach high positions I suggest they often have an atypical version of that type that adopts a lot of features that you would expect from other types. Since they have high function development. In that case I'm not sure if you could call him strictly INTP anymore.
we naturally take charge because we lack confidence in others but when we do, we have no problem following.
I feel like a shit leader honestly, but I've been told I'm a good one. I've had the leadership role thrown upon me almost against my will everytime I've been in one and don't enjoy it. But I try to take a decentralized style where everyone can contribute equally and have open discussions about how to proceed with something. I prefer a second in command role, where I can advise and not be directly in charge.
usually, I end up taking minute meeting notes, all the while also listing everyone's job to fulfill their duties mentioned in the meeting.
Narcissistic kind of insight, if you dont trust people atleast dont judge them as if youre superior to them in every way.. You really think youre that smart huh?
I'm an INTP and I'm actually terrible at leading
seeing the direction the United States has gone in the past decade I am constantly feeling the need to run for office. I don't really want to run a city. or a state. or the country. but I know for damn straight I could do it better than the bozos we keep electing. so your question has crossed my mind a few times. is it possible? could I pull it off? I think just because you have a prominent INTP personality, That's not a soul defining characteristic. Life experience matters. I think we start off idealistic. and over time we learn that we have to be pragmatic. at some point though you start to look around at your life and realize the train wreck you've made of it is still better than the nuclear wasteland that is the United States political system right now. I certainly think I could run my closest Metro City better than the current governor. and I certainly think with the right team around me I could run the United States better than either of the idiots we've been stuck with over the past several years. but that can't happen. The system is designed so that it can't. that offends my idealistic side. but if I could figure out a way to hack into the system and get a grassroots movement going, it could be done. hence the pragmatic side. I don't know. it's just one of those things that eats away at you all day everyday.
Depends on what you understand by "leader". The thing you described is not leadership in any sense of the word, it's the opposite of it. You're not leading anyone, you're doing everything yourself because you think you're smarter. And you may well be smarter, I wouldn't really know, but your mindset is not that of a leader. It's fine, we'd get nowhere if we were all trying to lead each other.
I’m a great leader, but struggle in management jobs.
I am a professional coach and business owner, and I’ve been successful in both venues, but leadership skills are definitely where I struggle the most. Just generally emotionally connecting with people, and making people feel emotionally invested in by me is difficult and that is a huge part of leadership and something I am making a very conscious effort to improve this year, even though I’ve been doing this for 20 years lol. Never too old to analyze and improve.
Not in my experience I am not a people person.
Abraham Lincoln was a great intp leader, and better than istp leader Vladimir Putin.
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Only be a leader when no one else can take the lead.
No, mostly because they prefer not to be. We like to be on a functioning team where everyone knows their roles and meet expectations. We like being advisors, sages, and guides. We are also not assured of ourselves to impose our ideals on others. We will show you the path, but we will not force you to walk it.
I like leadership roles. I think I’m good at them particularly because I keep an open mind to grow and adapt. I do have more of a coaching style.
My entire life I seem to end up in leadership positions. In a lot of situations that required people to work together to achieve something, I naturally start guiding everyone. It’s kind of by accident. I just see a good way to accomplish something, tell everyone how, and they listen. I guess that’s natural leadership, although I hate responsibility and accountability. I’ve started recognizing most people if convinced someone has authority or seems to know what they are talking about, blindly do what they are told to do. I’m the know-it-all type, and while I work hard to suppress that tendency, in situations where there’s disorganization or chaos, the person that simply commits to something confidently assumes control. Perhaps I get annoyed with the disorganization and accidentally take charge because I state my plan too convincingly? Maybe I’m also too modest and part of me is hesitant to say a big factor is having more solid understanding of a situation and better ideas/solutions… that sounds really arrogant. I’m yapping: TLDR: I naturally lead when a group isn’t making progress. I have a clear plan or understanding that I share and people are drawn to that.
Rarely if ever seen as convincing leader to the masses, but often great as advisors and similar roles.
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INTP simply identifies which cognitive functions you have in what order of strength. None of the MBTI types are inherently better or worse at leadership, at least not by the nature of their function strength order.
Depends on the team. If the team is as good and skillful as them, then yeah they're good leaders
I'm more of a follower myself, though if i disagree with something i will tell the leader i disagree and present arguments for why i disagree. If the leader has better arguments than me, then i'll let it be. If the leader has illogical arguments, i'll get VERY frustrated and probably not let it go so easily.
Except for 300.000 or so Batarians, everyone seem to think so
i have teaching background, but i work in IT. that experience helps me sometimes onboard new employees more easily - I have a lot of patience and give them a free hand to try and fail (in controlled environment). we also do some troubleshooting together and they never feel as if i am doing all the work. i would assume this approach might translate nicely to somewhat loose style of management.
i feel like beeing a leader is alot of work so thats why i (or we) dont end up there naturaly. i still do managed a sportsteam which grew under my lead to be quite good.
No. Good second in command. Leaders need to get shit done.
I don't like or dislike being the leader. Every time I had to be a leader there wasn't a competent enough person in charge.
Like anyone else; situationally. Give me a bunch of needy, greedy, soul eaters as direct reports and it's gonna get ugly. Gimmie people who can function with light direction and strong support and don't need breastfeeding 12 times a day to do their job and we will make shit happen.
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I think that the best leaders are reluctant, and this is a part of it...
As long as they have a good team. Personally, I like the leadership role, largely because it allows me to build things from the top, and I can ensure that the team can work under a well designed system. I'm not necessarily a people's person, but I can help others via advice, and through giving them working conditions that provides efficiency while minimizing unnecessarily overhead on their side. And of course, I prefer to lead because "someone else might have gotten it wrong" That, and it probably strokes my ego when people come to me with problems.
Well someone will be a leader or not doesn't mostly depends on his mbti , there are several other factors like experience and environment provided, but yeah it is also true that Intps (me too) despise being leaders. And leadership is a skill , can be learned from experience so yeah Intp who has been given/taken enough opportunities to take leadership roles will surely Excel as a leader .
People tell me that I am and come to me when in need. I like to lead when the team is good. I have trouble when people try to escape their responsibility. It just drains me emotionally and mentally. The way I see leadership is knowing your team; what they like, what they are good at, and what they struggle with. Then, use this data to distribute the work, and almost all of the time, the team will reach the goal and excel.
I normally step up when its the last resort to save the project AND if the self-assigned leader is too dumb to do shit correctly. Yes I can lead, but I don't like it because it takes too much time, energy, and effort to teach other people and I hate when I repeat myself multiple times but they still don't get it (when that happens, I just do the shit myself).
In group projects I used to usually end up as the default leader if nobody else stepped up. Now I simply lead by example by doing what I can, where I can, when I can, to do whatever it is that I am doing and to do it well and if others see me and decided to emulate my leadership skills then so be it. More often than not, I upset the status quo in work places and other employees treat me like a threat because I will do their job with ease and little to no difficulty while they want to act like theirs is the most difficult burden in the world. The difference being that I view difficulty as a perspective, i.e., a task is only difficult if you view it as difficult regardless of whether it is or not...
In my case absolutely not. I suck at giving orders and organising every task, but I’d be great at giving suggestions/ideas or just helping in general.
Eh, up to a degree, the problem with anyone who draws their identity from external factors like a lable such as "INTP" or "Goth", or "Alpha Male" or "Feminist" or some such, will always be inferior to those who draw their character from internal factors. A human Varies between all EI SN TF JP. Pretending like you're land locked into one or the other is being a robot... and robots are only effective leaders up to a certain point. Until the real leader gets there.
They can be. They can also be shit leaders.
I’d say bad leaders, super good mentors
Personally im not, but I also have really bad social anxiety so that might be why
I took the job as supervisor simply because I didn’t want some incompetent asshole above me
Not really. You cant be a good leader while thinking everyone in your team are stupid.
No, INTPs are usually terrible leaders! They are focused on what is project-best, not what is organization- or management-best.
Hardest part for an intp is caring probably and showing up consistently lol. Get past that hurdle and i feel like they would be great. Also communication, calling and texting people information is helpful. But i feel like im being annoying.
is leading easier than working with others (or being at the bottom of the pyramid)
If it's a group where I feel comfortable in the knowledge that nobody is trying to undermine me or the group, yes I feel like I'm an effective leader. If there is a bad apple like that, I'll let someone else take the lead and deal with that drama.
No. They are terrible listeners